August 12, 2025 • 28 mins
On this episode the Chaps catch up with CBS National College Football Writer, Shehan Jeyarajah to talk about the football revolution happening in Lubbock, Texas with the Red Raiders. In an awesome episode we talk with Shehan about,
- How the piece about Texas Tech came about
- Mike Leach's influence on Cody Campbell
- Texas Tech taking advantage of the current situation - how do they maintain that momentum going forward?
- The groundbreaking deal that the Red Raiders put together for Felix Ojo
- What chance the Red Raiders threaten to win the conference this year?
- What about those Baylor Bears? What kind of season can Baylor have?
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm not going to comment on that. I'll get fine
for the rest of my life if I get comment
on that.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Natural Championships that young girl. Hey everyone, and welcome to
the College Chaps podcast. On this episode, we're going to
talk to a guest about what's turning into a college
(00:35):
football revolution in Lubbock with Texas Take but first with
the Chaps, and I'm joined by the greatest authority on
the college game, the side of the Cumberland Gap, Oliver.
How are you, my friend?
Speaker 3 (00:46):
I'm all right, yeah, not bad. That's that's These introductions
are getting better week by week. I cannot wait until
I'm not going to say I can't wait a week fourteen,
because that's ridiculous. I don't want the college football season
to just forget. But I'll getting better every week. I'm
very excited. Culture was getting.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
There nearly We're nearly there. I think I may have
exhausted my introductions. Our guest makes his second appearance with
The Chaps, and since the last chat, has become the
national college football writer for CBS Sports and recently awarded
the Football Writers Association with America Rising Star Award, which
is just an awesome accolade to get We've asked him
back to talk about an awesome PC wrote about the
(01:23):
new revolution happening in Lubbock, Texas. So it's awesome to
welcome back she Hanji Origa, Hi, Sheanne, how are you.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
I'm doing well? Thanks for having me back.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
You don't know what but you probably were an award
winning journalists before the last time we spoke to you,
but you're certainly an award winning journalist this time. Congratulations
on award, a big, high profile award to get, well deserved.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
I think, well, thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Now.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
It's it's been a it's been a busy few years,
I guess since since we've last spoken. But George at
least got to see you down in Dallas this time
last year when you were down at SEC. Mister Hatton,
it lent it this year. But no, I mean, it's
it's been an exciting time and I can't believe we're
all still.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Doing this, Jah and we principally we see a lot
of your work across social media, but we principally wanted
to come back on to talk about the what I
call the revolution at Texas Tech. And I know it's
been building over a few years and we'll go on
and talk about Cody Campbell a little bit in a second.
But I think most people watching the watching or listening
(02:26):
to this will have read your piece. But tell us
a little bit about how the opportunity came about it
came about, and why you wanted to write about Texas Tech.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Well, it's interesting, right because I did the article essentially
in two or three days, like it was a very
quick piece, but in another sense, it was years in
the making. I've known Joey Maguire since he went from
high school coach to assistant coach at Baylor. I know
a lot of people on that staff and that athletic department.
There's a lot of former Baylor staffers on that staff
(02:59):
as well. And the other thing too, is that I've
been around Texas Tech since Cliff Kingsbury was there for
close to a decade at this point, and it's a
program that's fascinated me for a long time because it's
one of these programs that we think about, like Alabama
or Oklahoma, that has this one geographical place that it owns,
(03:22):
but unlike those other places, it doesn't come with success.
Like you look at Texas Tech. They haven't won an
outright conference championship since nineteen fifty five. It's been that
long since they've been relevant. And even if you look
there are seven Power Conference schools in Texas right now,
all of them have either won a conference championship or
(03:42):
played in a major bowl game in the past five years.
The one exception is Texas Tech. And so it's almost
something's been percolating there for such a long time because
the interest is there, right especially in recent years. The
money is there, the investment, the passion, all that stuff
is there, but there's no results to show for it.
In fact, when they were ranked in the preseason AP
(04:05):
Top twenty five, that was their first time being ranked
at all since twenty eighteen. And so I think that
it makes for such an interesting test case in so
many ways of this Nile era. And you look at
the way of course that they've thrown money around, the
way that they've they've added transfers, identified players that fit
their roster at a really high level. I mean, this
(04:26):
is their moment they want to break out of the muck.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Excuse Cody Campbell there, and obviously you mentioned coachy stuff.
He isn't a member of the coaching staff, but how
much do you think that he learned from his time
playing there with Mike Leech about how to tackle the
evolution that is happening in a little bit right now.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
Well, it's it's so funny that you mentioned that, because
so for people who don't know, Cody Campbell was an
offensive lineman there from two thousand and one to two
thousand for from Canyon, Texas up in the Panhandle, and
for Brits to who might not know the geography as well,
it's literally the piece of Texas that juts up and
is a panhandled And so it's fascinating because Mike Leach
(05:15):
is somebody who thought differently in so many ways and
was willing to try different things. And there's this great
book that I'd encourage everybody to read called The Perfect
Pass by S. C. Gwynn, where he essentially gets into
the origins of the air raid offense and how it
came to be with how Mummy and Mike Leach. But
Mike Leach was the guy who popularized it in so
(05:36):
many ways. And so Texas Tech is a place largely
because of Leech, where you just have the license to
try things, especially things that deliver results, and you know,
so I know other programs that around the same time
with NIL were much more conservative. They didn't want to overstep,
(05:56):
they didn't want to be wrong. Well, I think that
Cody Campbell was very much from the opposite tradition of
wanting to be aggressive, wanting to to act first because
maybe opportunity will go away if you don't act first.
It's how he build his oil business. He's not somebody
who comes from generational oil wealth. He's somebody who was
a wildcatter who went out and identified pieces of land
(06:17):
to go by, and in so many ways, I think
that that's the mentality that he took forward. And a
lot of it just ties back to I think Mike
Leech and being willing to try things, make things easy,
but act aggressively.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
And I love I love that the analogy business not
as where it's where, it's where he came from. I'm
a huge fan of the paramount serious landman, right, And
every time I was reading your article, I was thinking
back to the past use in the in that that
drama where that kind of activity is going on. You
talked about that kind of moment in time and Cody
(06:54):
cavity it comes out in the article she and Cody
Campbell talks about that there's that almost a window opportunity
which identifies as here's the potential to go and do
something and make a strike effectively. They've certainly taken advantage
of that, as you say, through nil and through the
(07:15):
transfer portal, and that's where a lot of the buzz
around the program has come from. Let's assume that that's
going to be a success and they get because they
get success on the back of it, and they live
up to the preseason polls. How do they maintain that
success and that momentum going forward because by that point
(07:36):
the advantage has really kind of played itself out.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
Well, there's two ways, and it's a very good question. One.
I spoke to Joey Maguire a lot about his two
thousand and six Cedar Hill High School team, and that
was the first ever high school team at Cedar Hill
to win a single state playoff game, and they went
on to go undefeatedn't win a state championship. This is
a place where that had never happened before. And joe
(08:02):
Maguire said when that happened, it made everybody think about
the program differently, both externally but internally too, this became
the new standard is that we do that here. So
part of it is when you have success to sell
it begets success. That's a big part of why they're
(08:22):
trying to own this moment. The other piece, too, is
that even though they don't have the same sort of
financial pathways available to them, they're trying to be very
aggressive in how they create their roster building strategy. And
what I mean by that is it has not been
a secret that they've thrown some big money at some
(08:42):
high school recruits. In the twenty twenty six class, Felix
Ojo in offensive tackle, in the twenty twenty seven class,
Ladamian Geitton a defensive end. By the way, keep in
mind what those positions are. They're not quarterbacks or receivers.
They're an offensive lineman and a defensive lineman. So they
are being very targeted with guys that they feel like
(09:03):
are elite players who are relative sure things that can
fill a specific role. Because here's the reality too. Okay,
Let's say that you know every team is working with
a little bit of a different revshare number because different
schools are giving certain amount of football and other sports,
et cetera. So let's say that you're working with fifteen
million dollars right. Well, in the NFL, if you give
(09:26):
an offensive lineman, you know whatever, four percent of the
cap and he's a good offensive lineman, that's a pretty
good deal. If you go out into the transfer market
and have to get one, maybe you have to pay
him eleven percent of the cap, Well, that's a much
worse deal. So they're betting if we get some of
these guys on campus when they're relatively cheaper as high
school recruits, versus having to go out into the portal
(09:47):
and get guys that that ultimately becomes a bargain. So
they're trying to be ahead of the curve in that
way as well. Now again, when you're able to add
David Bailey from Stanford, who is all ready likely a
first round pick, yeah, that's going to have quicker results.
This is more of a long term investment and let's
make this sustainable over the course of two or three years.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Yeah, it's almost a kind of perfect storm of roster construction.
You mentioned David Bailey with our whole defensive front for
this year, you know, Lee Hunter, Skaalagill Howard out of
Northern Illinois, there's so many guys joined, there's so many
guys on that defensive front, and it is those by
you mentioned the positions, the areas of the football field
(10:31):
that aren't particularly traditionally spent a lot of money on.
You touched on Felix Ojo there his signing. The money
talked about around that signing kind of came out around
the same sort of time as your article about what's
happening in Lubbock. You talked about the Red Raiders being
ahead of the curve just then do they set the
(10:53):
curve from here? Is that that move? Does that kind
of change the landscape of college football and set how
everyone looks at roster construction from here on that?
Speaker 4 (11:05):
No, it's a great question, and I think that it's
a mixed bag. So I got a chance to talk
to Text Tech staff, and I got a chance to
talk to Texas staff about a month ago, and one
thing was the reported deal for Felix Ojoe that will
actually happen is he's going to be paid around eight
hundred k a year over the course of three years, right,
(11:27):
and so they're willing to pay multi year contracts. Well,
I talk to Text coach Steve Sarkisian. One thing that
he said is we have no interest in giving out
multi year contracts for two reasons. One, it's only binding
to us, like Texas is the only one who's binded
by that. A player can still decide to leave and
there's no recourse, right, there's not a transfer fee, there's
(11:49):
not a buyout anything like that, and so from their perspective,
they're like, this is a bad deal for us. And
the second thing, of course, is if a player busts,
you don't want to be in a position where a
kid hasn't performed and then you're you still owe him
eight hundred thousand dollars. So you've got to be really
targeted with how you do this because the dead money
that could come of it is potentially really dangerous. I
do think that there are pieces of this strategy though,
(12:11):
that I'd consider more, like like middle class teams will use.
So for example, right, like, I don't know specifics about
his NIL situation, but Houston has a player committed Keshan Henderson,
who is a top three player, one of the best
quarterbacks in the country from the city of Houston, who
wants to be at Houston. Well, they're probably going to
(12:33):
be willing to overpay him a little bit because he
means so much to that program. Well, you know, Texas,
if they don't land him, they'll just get another five
star quarterback, right, So, like the relative value to Houston
versus Texas is different. And so you know, one thing
that I've seen is I don't know if this number
shifted since them, but at least when Felix Ojo committed,
(12:53):
eight of the top one hundred players in the twenty
twenty six recruiting class are committed to Big twelve schools
the year before it was two, So you're able to
just be more targeted, I think is the biggest swing.
But other teams are going to try different things, right,
Like you know their programs like Iowa State for example,
that are maybe they take one swing, but like you're
(13:14):
still mostly going to be trying to get that five
hundred to six hundred level recruit and to be locked
in for three years. It's it's not going to change
what they do, but it at least opens the door.
I think that different types of programs can create different
types of recruitment strategies and we'll see ultimately what pays
off in five years.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
I mean, it's a fascinating subject and it's going to
be incredible to watch how all of this plays out.
Because on one hand, maybe the likes of text Tech
and other schools like that need to give that commitment
to a player to attract them to this school. But
as you say, there's a lot of wing and a
(13:55):
prayer in terms of how that plays out, and then
the money can get used up very cool quickly if,
as you say, if a player doesn't doesn't perform to
their their kind of their high school ranking. Let's talk
a little bit about how Texas Tech might get on
this year. As you said at the outset of the show,
(14:16):
as a team which typically does not have has not
had success. It's not made the Big twelve championship game
at all during its time in the conference, and I
think you said nineteen fifty something was the last time
there was any majored success. CBS Sports have Texas Tech
(14:36):
as having one of the easiest schedules in college football.
So how do you think this year plays out for
Texas Tech. I know that's some possible question, Jhan, but
we we appreciate your calendar that well.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
It's interesting because last year Texas Tech one. I believe
it was that games. They had six games that were
one score wins. Well, the goal of the twenty twenty
five team, with the way that they've built in the trenches,
is to not be in that many one score games,
and their non conference schedule is maybe the easiest in
(15:17):
the country. They get FCS, Kent State, and I believe
it's Oregon State who's greatly diminished. Of course, their home
schedule with BYU losing their quarterback all of a sudden,
looks a whole lot easier. It's really BYU and Kansas
are kind of the two tough teams. All yeah, as
you got the Kansas hat on there, but you know,
(15:38):
they do have three tough road games. They play Kansas State,
Arizona State, and Utah, three of the best teams in
the Big twelve in road games, and those are legitimately
difficult games. But here's the goal, ultimately, right, is let's
say that eight of those games that we just mentioned
are just non factors, like they don't have to try
(16:00):
that hard, that they're just wins. Right. Well, if you
play a four game season and you go one in
three in those games, that's nine wins, right If you
go two and two in those games, that's ten wins
and you're probably in Arlington. To me, that is where
they should be. I think that not winning ten would
(16:20):
be disappointing with what they've put together when you talk
to them there. And the coolest thing about Texas Tech
this year is how little they're shying away from expectations.
They you know, so many programs are like, well, you know,
we're just trying to go one and know every day,
we're just trying to do whatever whatever, Like they're obviously
doing that stuff, but like they're like, no, like this
(16:41):
is a big year. This is a really big year.
We've put a lot of time and money and resource
into this program and this year and we got to perform.
Uh and so I the thing that everybody said is like,
our goal is to get to Arlington and play for
the Big twelve. They acknowledge, Look, if you get there,
(17:03):
like it's a football game, anything could happen at that point,
and you'll probably be playing one of those other best
teams in the conference. You know, Arizona State, Baylor, Kansas State,
one of those teams. So like, you know, it's not
just that they have to win, but they feel like
they have to get there, and they have to be
slotted into the playoff heading into the final weeks of
(17:24):
the season, right they have to have a chance to
be there, so I think they will. Our picks for
each conference are gonna come out next week over at
cbsports dot com, but I will give a sneak preview
and say that I do pick Texas Tech to win
the Big Twelve. So it's but it's going to be
really competitive. I see in the Big Twelve. I view
(17:44):
there as being a top tier of the conference. Texas Tech, Baylor,
Arizona State, Kansas State is kind of my top tier
with Utah, with Utah and TCU kind of like right
on the cusp of getting there. And there are still
nine teams in the conference that I think have a
chance to win the league if some things break right
for them. But right now, at least, I think that
(18:05):
Texas Tech has eliminated as many of the variables as
any team in college football, and that's going to give
them a chance to be really good.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
I want to play a little bit of Devil's advocate
because they come into this season ranked twenty third in
the preseason A people you touched on their the expectations
that they're not shying away from because of everything that's
going on around that program. I've maybe a season or
two kind of felt like there has been that expectation
that Texas Tech should be doing something since Jerry maguire
(18:39):
was there, arrived really a good recruiting classes of attracting
guys that traditionally they wouldn't have. Is are we looking
at pure height right now? That maybe carries a little
bit of pressure as well. You know, this is the
season that they have to perform. If they don't get
to the if they don't get to Arlington, if they
(19:01):
don't challenge for a tile, is that where people start
looking at does something need to change?
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Oh? Yeah? And you know I talked to Joey McGuire specifically,
and I asked him to his face, I'm like, if
you just keep winning eight games every year, like they'll
build a statue of you. You'll get to we'll get
to coach here for ten years, right, like everybody will
love you because that, like, again, you don't think of
Texas tex As one of these programs. Texta Second is
(19:31):
one of these programs that has not had consistent success
almost at any point in their history, like they just haven't.
You know Spike Dikes, who actually is the father of
Sunny Dikes, who's the head coach at TCU. Now, he
was a great coach for them in the eighties and nineties,
and he won like under sixty percent of his games. Like,
it just doesn't happen there. And in fact, you mentioned
(19:53):
obviously some of the undelivered expectations. I mean, Joe McGuire
is the first coach since the UPOS conference folded in
nineteen ninety five to have three straight winning records in
conference play at Texas Tech. Like, that's the level we're
talking about here, right, Like when we talk about this program.
So no, they absolutely turned the burner up on themselves.
(20:17):
They absolutely turned the pressure up on themselves, and they
readily acknowledge it and say it. Now. Look, if they
go eight and four this year will be to me
a huge disappointment. I also think that uh, short of again,
you know, if Joey McGuire goes out there and costs
(20:38):
some games, yeah, that's a conversation, right, But like I
think that he's part of the plan too. When you
talk about Cody Campbell and when you talk about their
athletic director and their general manager. Like, I don't think
that this is just a thing that happens if anybody
is the head coach here. I think that Cody Campbell
believes a lot in Joey McGuire and so. But all
(20:59):
that said, I mean, if if this is a disaster,
like I made the comparison, I think in the piece
to last year, Kansas State men's basketball kind of did
a giant nil swing and it was a total disaster,
Like total disaster. They missed the tournament and finished below
five hundred and like, so a guy in Jerome Tang
(21:20):
who was super popular there is now kind of like
persona non grata, right, Like it can change that fast,
and so they're gonna have to maneuver this well. And again,
like this is probably the best chance you're ever gonna have,
because if they do go eight and four, it would
be an okay season. But there's a reason we're talking
about two thousand and six ye ter Hill High School,
(21:40):
right It's because that's the season that changed everything. That's
what this needs to be.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
And I guess you know, from the fans perspective, we
saw what happened when Mike Leach was released from the program.
I mean there was there was protestation about I might
hadn't taken them to that point. I think there was
a general expectation that he was on the road to
success with the program. So we've got precedent about how
(22:07):
much the fans will get behind a coach that they
see as heading in the right direction. And as the
whole context of this conversation is that it's a very
exciting time to be in Lubbock. So I guess from
that PERSPECTIONI per perspective, the expectations really do ramp up,
whether or whether they like it or not.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
No, one hundred percent. And I think that like I'll
say this too right, like not to get to to
you know, anthropological or whatever you want to say, but
like I think that you know, when you look at
that place at this time in history, like Joey McGuire
showed about the perfect time, because Joey McGuire is a
(22:51):
fighter and is a cheerleader, He's somebody who is willing
to represent that community fervently, who's willing to come in
and say, you guys are worth it, you guys are
big time. This is where I want to be. You know,
their previous staff and their previous head coach, Matt Wells,
whether you know, I think is a great guy. But
(23:12):
like I think for him, he thought I could just
put my head down in coach football. Well, no, like
you have to be the governor of West Texas. That's
what the job at Texas Tech is. And ironically, I
think that a high school football coach was kind of
the perfect guy who gets that, because high school football
(23:32):
at the highest level is like your own little fiefdom too,
Like it is like you are the mayor of your
town and you need to not just you know, coach football, Well,
you need to be out shaking hands and kissing babies, right,
It's like And so I think that they really understand
that piece of it. They understand what's on the line.
And this was a huge part of the genesis of
(23:54):
the article in general, is I think that there was
a very good but very lazy story that be told
of hey, look at all the players that Texas Tech
is paying, and I thought that there was more there
to it of Okay, well, like why is this happening
right now? Why you know what, who are these people
and why are they putting so much investment in that
(24:16):
could never be returned. And you know, luckily, I think
it really turned into a fascinating study.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
I just want to finish off with a Texas Tech
rival and a program is close to you, close to
your heart, close to your origin story, if you like,
and a team that is we're talking about expectations around
Texas Tech. A team I think, and I think you agree,
has been woefully underrated and going into the twenty twenty
(24:47):
five college football season, that's the Baylor bet A team
that returns arguably one of the best trio of offensive
players in the country, but he's outside the ap top
twenty five. As we go in, talk to me a
little bit, chat about your false feelings about Baylor football
in twenty five.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
Well, I think that heading into the off season, my
thought was their season is going to be made by
how many of their offensive coordinator Jake Spavadal, quarterback Sawyer Robertson,
and running back Bryson Washington come back. If they return
two of those guys, they have a chance to be
a pretty good team. If they return one big step back. Well,
they returned all three, and frankly, I don't know that
(25:26):
I expected them to return all three because there were
calls to Spavadol and Robertson, and I can tell you
Sawyer Robertson, who in my opinion, is a top two
quarterback in the Big twelve, is not paid like a
top two quarterback in the Big twelve. He took a
lesser contract so that they'd be able to bring back
(25:47):
some other guys as part of this team. And so
when you look at this group, I mean, this should
be one of the best offenses in the conference. You know,
Sawyer again, a top two quarterback. I think Bryson is
to me maybe clearly the number one running back heading
into the year. There's some other guys who will get
in the conversation I think as the year goes on,
but he heading in I think, is clear running back one.
(26:09):
Josh Cameron at receivers, a former non scholarship player who
really showed out. He's a big bodied guy, long arms,
great hands. They've got a tight end, and Michael Trigg
who really came along in the second half of the year.
Four starters back on the offensive line. But the thing
that I haven't mentioned is the defense, and that's kind
of the thing that has to take that step forward.
They really struggled in the secondary, but they brought in
(26:32):
a fantastic secondary coach and Paul Gonzalez, who is the
guy at TCU who developed two Thorpe Award winners, and
Trey Hodges, Tomlinson and Treyvon Merrick. So a lot I
think to be excited about with this team. Again, I
hinted that Baylor is my number or sorry, that Texas
Tech is my number one in the Big Twelve. I
have them playing Baylor in the Big Twelve title game, which,
(26:54):
by the way, these two teams have played every year
since like nineteen seventy and they're not on each other
schedule this year, so I think it would only be
fitting for them to get a chance to play once
again in Arlington.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Yeah, that's it's an opportunity. That would be an interesting
Big Twelve championship game. As you say, and that's all
the time that we've got, and we really do appreciate
you coming on. Normally this time in the show, we
ask our guests what they're what they're up to, and
what our listeners can watch out for. And without preempting
what you're going to say, I saw that you you
(27:29):
started a brand new podcast show yesterday, So let's let's
hear what you're up to and what we can watch
out for in the next few weeks.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
Yeah, we, just like you mentioned on Monday, launched a
new podcast over at CBS Sports called The College Football Insiders.
You know, I feel like we have as good a
team right now at CBS Sports as anybody in the industry,
and all six of us are part of the show.
It's a rotating cast of guys and we'll be going
three times a week during the regular season. But the
(28:01):
show is what it sounds like. It's us getting together
and talking about what we're hearing, and you know, whether
it's news and notes from camp, whether it's insight into
some of the biggest storylines. I'll tell you what. We'll
get a chance to talk about the whole situation with
Oklahoma's quarterback on tomorrow's show, which is at two pm
Eastern Time in America, So we're streaming it live on YouTube.
(28:23):
You can also get it anywhere you get your podcasts,
and you can find all my other work as usual
over at cbsports dot com and on my social media
feeds at Shanji Raja on every platform.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Well, that's awesome. We'll watch out for that. That's all
from us, Thanks for listening and supporting us, Stay safe
and will and catch you all next time.
I'm not going to comment on that. I'll get fine
for the rest of my life if I get comment
on that.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Natural Championships that young girl. Hey everyone, and welcome to
the College Chaps podcast. On this episode, we're going to
talk to a guest about what's turning into a college
(00:35):
football revolution in Lubbock with Texas Take but first with
the Chaps, and I'm joined by the greatest authority on
the college game, the side of the Cumberland Gap, Oliver.
How are you, my friend?
Speaker 3 (00:46):
I'm all right, yeah, not bad. That's that's These introductions
are getting better week by week. I cannot wait until
I'm not going to say I can't wait a week fourteen,
because that's ridiculous. I don't want the college football season
to just forget. But I'll getting better every week. I'm
very excited. Culture was getting.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
There nearly We're nearly there. I think I may have
exhausted my introductions. Our guest makes his second appearance with
The Chaps, and since the last chat, has become the
national college football writer for CBS Sports and recently awarded
the Football Writers Association with America Rising Star Award, which
is just an awesome accolade to get We've asked him
back to talk about an awesome PC wrote about the
(01:23):
new revolution happening in Lubbock, Texas. So it's awesome to
welcome back she Hanji Origa, Hi, Sheanne, how are you.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
I'm doing well? Thanks for having me back.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
You don't know what but you probably were an award
winning journalists before the last time we spoke to you,
but you're certainly an award winning journalist this time. Congratulations
on award, a big, high profile award to get, well deserved.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
I think, well, thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Now.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
It's it's been a it's been a busy few years,
I guess since since we've last spoken. But George at
least got to see you down in Dallas this time
last year when you were down at SEC. Mister Hatton,
it lent it this year. But no, I mean, it's
it's been an exciting time and I can't believe we're
all still.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Doing this, Jah and we principally we see a lot
of your work across social media, but we principally wanted
to come back on to talk about the what I
call the revolution at Texas Tech. And I know it's
been building over a few years and we'll go on
and talk about Cody Campbell a little bit in a second.
But I think most people watching the watching or listening
(02:26):
to this will have read your piece. But tell us
a little bit about how the opportunity came about it
came about, and why you wanted to write about Texas Tech.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Well, it's interesting, right because I did the article essentially
in two or three days, like it was a very
quick piece, but in another sense, it was years in
the making. I've known Joey Maguire since he went from
high school coach to assistant coach at Baylor. I know
a lot of people on that staff and that athletic department.
There's a lot of former Baylor staffers on that staff
(02:59):
as well. And the other thing too, is that I've
been around Texas Tech since Cliff Kingsbury was there for
close to a decade at this point, and it's a
program that's fascinated me for a long time because it's
one of these programs that we think about, like Alabama
or Oklahoma, that has this one geographical place that it owns,
(03:22):
but unlike those other places, it doesn't come with success.
Like you look at Texas Tech. They haven't won an
outright conference championship since nineteen fifty five. It's been that
long since they've been relevant. And even if you look
there are seven Power Conference schools in Texas right now,
all of them have either won a conference championship or
(03:42):
played in a major bowl game in the past five years.
The one exception is Texas Tech. And so it's almost
something's been percolating there for such a long time because
the interest is there, right especially in recent years. The
money is there, the investment, the passion, all that stuff
is there, but there's no results to show for it.
In fact, when they were ranked in the preseason AP
(04:05):
Top twenty five, that was their first time being ranked
at all since twenty eighteen. And so I think that
it makes for such an interesting test case in so
many ways of this Nile era. And you look at
the way of course that they've thrown money around, the
way that they've they've added transfers, identified players that fit
their roster at a really high level. I mean, this
(04:26):
is their moment they want to break out of the muck.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Excuse Cody Campbell there, and obviously you mentioned coachy stuff.
He isn't a member of the coaching staff, but how
much do you think that he learned from his time
playing there with Mike Leech about how to tackle the
evolution that is happening in a little bit right now.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
Well, it's it's so funny that you mentioned that, because
so for people who don't know, Cody Campbell was an
offensive lineman there from two thousand and one to two
thousand for from Canyon, Texas up in the Panhandle, and
for Brits to who might not know the geography as well,
it's literally the piece of Texas that juts up and
is a panhandled And so it's fascinating because Mike Leach
(05:15):
is somebody who thought differently in so many ways and
was willing to try different things. And there's this great
book that I'd encourage everybody to read called The Perfect
Pass by S. C. Gwynn, where he essentially gets into
the origins of the air raid offense and how it
came to be with how Mummy and Mike Leach. But
Mike Leach was the guy who popularized it in so
(05:36):
many ways. And so Texas Tech is a place largely
because of Leech, where you just have the license to
try things, especially things that deliver results, and you know,
so I know other programs that around the same time
with NIL were much more conservative. They didn't want to overstep,
(05:56):
they didn't want to be wrong. Well, I think that
Cody Campbell was very much from the opposite tradition of
wanting to be aggressive, wanting to to act first because
maybe opportunity will go away if you don't act first.
It's how he build his oil business. He's not somebody
who comes from generational oil wealth. He's somebody who was
a wildcatter who went out and identified pieces of land
(06:17):
to go by, and in so many ways, I think
that that's the mentality that he took forward. And a
lot of it just ties back to I think Mike
Leech and being willing to try things, make things easy,
but act aggressively.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
And I love I love that the analogy business not
as where it's where, it's where he came from. I'm
a huge fan of the paramount serious landman, right, And
every time I was reading your article, I was thinking
back to the past use in the in that that
drama where that kind of activity is going on. You
talked about that kind of moment in time and Cody
(06:54):
cavity it comes out in the article she and Cody
Campbell talks about that there's that almost a window opportunity
which identifies as here's the potential to go and do
something and make a strike effectively. They've certainly taken advantage
of that, as you say, through nil and through the
(07:15):
transfer portal, and that's where a lot of the buzz
around the program has come from. Let's assume that that's
going to be a success and they get because they
get success on the back of it, and they live
up to the preseason polls. How do they maintain that
success and that momentum going forward because by that point
(07:36):
the advantage has really kind of played itself out.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
Well, there's two ways, and it's a very good question. One.
I spoke to Joey Maguire a lot about his two
thousand and six Cedar Hill High School team, and that
was the first ever high school team at Cedar Hill
to win a single state playoff game, and they went
on to go undefeatedn't win a state championship. This is
a place where that had never happened before. And joe
(08:02):
Maguire said when that happened, it made everybody think about
the program differently, both externally but internally too, this became
the new standard is that we do that here. So
part of it is when you have success to sell
it begets success. That's a big part of why they're
(08:22):
trying to own this moment. The other piece, too, is
that even though they don't have the same sort of
financial pathways available to them, they're trying to be very
aggressive in how they create their roster building strategy. And
what I mean by that is it has not been
a secret that they've thrown some big money at some
(08:42):
high school recruits. In the twenty twenty six class, Felix
Ojo in offensive tackle, in the twenty twenty seven class,
Ladamian Geitton a defensive end. By the way, keep in
mind what those positions are. They're not quarterbacks or receivers.
They're an offensive lineman and a defensive lineman. So they
are being very targeted with guys that they feel like
(09:03):
are elite players who are relative sure things that can
fill a specific role. Because here's the reality too. Okay,
Let's say that you know every team is working with
a little bit of a different revshare number because different
schools are giving certain amount of football and other sports,
et cetera. So let's say that you're working with fifteen
million dollars right. Well, in the NFL, if you give
(09:26):
an offensive lineman, you know whatever, four percent of the
cap and he's a good offensive lineman, that's a pretty
good deal. If you go out into the transfer market
and have to get one, maybe you have to pay
him eleven percent of the cap, Well, that's a much
worse deal. So they're betting if we get some of
these guys on campus when they're relatively cheaper as high
school recruits, versus having to go out into the portal
(09:47):
and get guys that that ultimately becomes a bargain. So
they're trying to be ahead of the curve in that
way as well. Now again, when you're able to add
David Bailey from Stanford, who is all ready likely a
first round pick, yeah, that's going to have quicker results.
This is more of a long term investment and let's
make this sustainable over the course of two or three years.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Yeah, it's almost a kind of perfect storm of roster construction.
You mentioned David Bailey with our whole defensive front for
this year, you know, Lee Hunter, Skaalagill Howard out of
Northern Illinois, there's so many guys joined, there's so many
guys on that defensive front, and it is those by
you mentioned the positions, the areas of the football field
(10:31):
that aren't particularly traditionally spent a lot of money on.
You touched on Felix Ojo there his signing. The money
talked about around that signing kind of came out around
the same sort of time as your article about what's
happening in Lubbock. You talked about the Red Raiders being
ahead of the curve just then do they set the
(10:53):
curve from here? Is that that move? Does that kind
of change the landscape of college football and set how
everyone looks at roster construction from here on that?
Speaker 4 (11:05):
No, it's a great question, and I think that it's
a mixed bag. So I got a chance to talk
to Text Tech staff, and I got a chance to
talk to Texas staff about a month ago, and one
thing was the reported deal for Felix Ojoe that will
actually happen is he's going to be paid around eight
hundred k a year over the course of three years, right,
(11:27):
and so they're willing to pay multi year contracts. Well,
I talk to Text coach Steve Sarkisian. One thing that
he said is we have no interest in giving out
multi year contracts for two reasons. One, it's only binding
to us, like Texas is the only one who's binded
by that. A player can still decide to leave and
there's no recourse, right, there's not a transfer fee, there's
(11:49):
not a buyout anything like that, and so from their perspective,
they're like, this is a bad deal for us. And
the second thing, of course, is if a player busts,
you don't want to be in a position where a
kid hasn't performed and then you're you still owe him
eight hundred thousand dollars. So you've got to be really
targeted with how you do this because the dead money
that could come of it is potentially really dangerous. I
do think that there are pieces of this strategy though,
(12:11):
that I'd consider more, like like middle class teams will use.
So for example, right, like, I don't know specifics about
his NIL situation, but Houston has a player committed Keshan Henderson,
who is a top three player, one of the best
quarterbacks in the country from the city of Houston, who
wants to be at Houston. Well, they're probably going to
(12:33):
be willing to overpay him a little bit because he
means so much to that program. Well, you know, Texas,
if they don't land him, they'll just get another five
star quarterback, right, So, like the relative value to Houston
versus Texas is different. And so you know, one thing
that I've seen is I don't know if this number
shifted since them, but at least when Felix Ojo committed,
(12:53):
eight of the top one hundred players in the twenty
twenty six recruiting class are committed to Big twelve schools
the year before it was two, So you're able to
just be more targeted, I think is the biggest swing.
But other teams are going to try different things, right,
Like you know their programs like Iowa State for example,
that are maybe they take one swing, but like you're
(13:14):
still mostly going to be trying to get that five
hundred to six hundred level recruit and to be locked
in for three years. It's it's not going to change
what they do, but it at least opens the door.
I think that different types of programs can create different
types of recruitment strategies and we'll see ultimately what pays
off in five years.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
I mean, it's a fascinating subject and it's going to
be incredible to watch how all of this plays out.
Because on one hand, maybe the likes of text Tech
and other schools like that need to give that commitment
to a player to attract them to this school. But
as you say, there's a lot of wing and a
(13:55):
prayer in terms of how that plays out, and then
the money can get used up very cool quickly if,
as you say, if a player doesn't doesn't perform to
their their kind of their high school ranking. Let's talk
a little bit about how Texas Tech might get on
this year. As you said at the outset of the show,
(14:16):
as a team which typically does not have has not
had success. It's not made the Big twelve championship game
at all during its time in the conference, and I
think you said nineteen fifty something was the last time
there was any majored success. CBS Sports have Texas Tech
(14:36):
as having one of the easiest schedules in college football.
So how do you think this year plays out for
Texas Tech. I know that's some possible question, Jhan, but
we we appreciate your calendar that well.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
It's interesting because last year Texas Tech one. I believe
it was that games. They had six games that were
one score wins. Well, the goal of the twenty twenty
five team, with the way that they've built in the trenches,
is to not be in that many one score games,
and their non conference schedule is maybe the easiest in
(15:17):
the country. They get FCS, Kent State, and I believe
it's Oregon State who's greatly diminished. Of course, their home
schedule with BYU losing their quarterback all of a sudden,
looks a whole lot easier. It's really BYU and Kansas
are kind of the two tough teams. All yeah, as
you got the Kansas hat on there, but you know,
(15:38):
they do have three tough road games. They play Kansas State,
Arizona State, and Utah, three of the best teams in
the Big twelve in road games, and those are legitimately
difficult games. But here's the goal, ultimately, right, is let's
say that eight of those games that we just mentioned
are just non factors, like they don't have to try
(16:00):
that hard, that they're just wins. Right. Well, if you
play a four game season and you go one in
three in those games, that's nine wins, right If you
go two and two in those games, that's ten wins
and you're probably in Arlington. To me, that is where
they should be. I think that not winning ten would
(16:20):
be disappointing with what they've put together when you talk
to them there. And the coolest thing about Texas Tech
this year is how little they're shying away from expectations.
They you know, so many programs are like, well, you know,
we're just trying to go one and know every day,
we're just trying to do whatever whatever, Like they're obviously
doing that stuff, but like they're like, no, like this
(16:41):
is a big year. This is a really big year.
We've put a lot of time and money and resource
into this program and this year and we got to perform.
Uh and so I the thing that everybody said is like,
our goal is to get to Arlington and play for
the Big twelve. They acknowledge, Look, if you get there,
(17:03):
like it's a football game, anything could happen at that point,
and you'll probably be playing one of those other best
teams in the conference. You know, Arizona State, Baylor, Kansas State,
one of those teams. So like, you know, it's not
just that they have to win, but they feel like
they have to get there, and they have to be
slotted into the playoff heading into the final weeks of
(17:24):
the season, right they have to have a chance to
be there, so I think they will. Our picks for
each conference are gonna come out next week over at
cbsports dot com, but I will give a sneak preview
and say that I do pick Texas Tech to win
the Big Twelve. So it's but it's going to be
really competitive. I see in the Big Twelve. I view
(17:44):
there as being a top tier of the conference. Texas Tech, Baylor,
Arizona State, Kansas State is kind of my top tier
with Utah, with Utah and TCU kind of like right
on the cusp of getting there. And there are still
nine teams in the conference that I think have a
chance to win the league if some things break right
for them. But right now, at least, I think that
(18:05):
Texas Tech has eliminated as many of the variables as
any team in college football, and that's going to give
them a chance to be really good.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
I want to play a little bit of Devil's advocate
because they come into this season ranked twenty third in
the preseason A people you touched on their the expectations
that they're not shying away from because of everything that's
going on around that program. I've maybe a season or
two kind of felt like there has been that expectation
that Texas Tech should be doing something since Jerry maguire
(18:39):
was there, arrived really a good recruiting classes of attracting
guys that traditionally they wouldn't have. Is are we looking
at pure height right now? That maybe carries a little
bit of pressure as well. You know, this is the
season that they have to perform. If they don't get
to the if they don't get to Arlington, if they
(19:01):
don't challenge for a tile, is that where people start
looking at does something need to change?
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Oh? Yeah? And you know I talked to Joey McGuire specifically,
and I asked him to his face, I'm like, if
you just keep winning eight games every year, like they'll
build a statue of you. You'll get to we'll get
to coach here for ten years, right, like everybody will
love you because that, like, again, you don't think of
Texas tex As one of these programs. Texta Second is
(19:31):
one of these programs that has not had consistent success
almost at any point in their history, like they just haven't.
You know Spike Dikes, who actually is the father of
Sunny Dikes, who's the head coach at TCU. Now, he
was a great coach for them in the eighties and nineties,
and he won like under sixty percent of his games. Like,
it just doesn't happen there. And in fact, you mentioned
(19:53):
obviously some of the undelivered expectations. I mean, Joe McGuire
is the first coach since the UPOS conference folded in
nineteen ninety five to have three straight winning records in
conference play at Texas Tech. Like, that's the level we're
talking about here, right, Like when we talk about this program.
So no, they absolutely turned the burner up on themselves.
(20:17):
They absolutely turned the pressure up on themselves, and they
readily acknowledge it and say it. Now. Look, if they
go eight and four this year will be to me
a huge disappointment. I also think that uh, short of again,
you know, if Joey McGuire goes out there and costs
(20:38):
some games, yeah, that's a conversation, right, But like I
think that he's part of the plan too. When you
talk about Cody Campbell and when you talk about their
athletic director and their general manager. Like, I don't think
that this is just a thing that happens if anybody
is the head coach here. I think that Cody Campbell
believes a lot in Joey McGuire and so. But all
(20:59):
that said, I mean, if if this is a disaster,
like I made the comparison, I think in the piece
to last year, Kansas State men's basketball kind of did
a giant nil swing and it was a total disaster,
Like total disaster. They missed the tournament and finished below
five hundred and like, so a guy in Jerome Tang
(21:20):
who was super popular there is now kind of like
persona non grata, right, Like it can change that fast,
and so they're gonna have to maneuver this well. And again,
like this is probably the best chance you're ever gonna have,
because if they do go eight and four, it would
be an okay season. But there's a reason we're talking
about two thousand and six ye ter Hill High School,
(21:40):
right It's because that's the season that changed everything. That's
what this needs to be.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
And I guess you know, from the fans perspective, we
saw what happened when Mike Leach was released from the program.
I mean there was there was protestation about I might
hadn't taken them to that point. I think there was
a general expectation that he was on the road to
success with the program. So we've got precedent about how
(22:07):
much the fans will get behind a coach that they
see as heading in the right direction. And as the
whole context of this conversation is that it's a very
exciting time to be in Lubbock. So I guess from
that PERSPECTIONI per perspective, the expectations really do ramp up,
whether or whether they like it or not.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
No, one hundred percent. And I think that like I'll
say this too right, like not to get to to
you know, anthropological or whatever you want to say, but
like I think that you know, when you look at
that place at this time in history, like Joey McGuire
showed about the perfect time, because Joey McGuire is a
(22:51):
fighter and is a cheerleader, He's somebody who is willing
to represent that community fervently, who's willing to come in
and say, you guys are worth it, you guys are
big time. This is where I want to be. You know,
their previous staff and their previous head coach, Matt Wells,
whether you know, I think is a great guy. But
(23:12):
like I think for him, he thought I could just
put my head down in coach football. Well, no, like
you have to be the governor of West Texas. That's
what the job at Texas Tech is. And ironically, I
think that a high school football coach was kind of
the perfect guy who gets that, because high school football
(23:32):
at the highest level is like your own little fiefdom too,
Like it is like you are the mayor of your
town and you need to not just you know, coach football, Well,
you need to be out shaking hands and kissing babies, right,
It's like And so I think that they really understand
that piece of it. They understand what's on the line.
And this was a huge part of the genesis of
(23:54):
the article in general, is I think that there was
a very good but very lazy story that be told
of hey, look at all the players that Texas Tech
is paying, and I thought that there was more there
to it of Okay, well, like why is this happening
right now? Why you know what, who are these people
and why are they putting so much investment in that
(24:16):
could never be returned. And you know, luckily, I think
it really turned into a fascinating study.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
I just want to finish off with a Texas Tech
rival and a program is close to you, close to
your heart, close to your origin story, if you like,
and a team that is we're talking about expectations around
Texas Tech. A team I think, and I think you agree,
has been woefully underrated and going into the twenty twenty
(24:47):
five college football season, that's the Baylor bet A team
that returns arguably one of the best trio of offensive
players in the country, but he's outside the ap top
twenty five. As we go in, talk to me a
little bit, chat about your false feelings about Baylor football
in twenty five.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
Well, I think that heading into the off season, my
thought was their season is going to be made by
how many of their offensive coordinator Jake Spavadal, quarterback Sawyer Robertson,
and running back Bryson Washington come back. If they return
two of those guys, they have a chance to be
a pretty good team. If they return one big step back. Well,
they returned all three, and frankly, I don't know that
(25:26):
I expected them to return all three because there were
calls to Spavadol and Robertson, and I can tell you
Sawyer Robertson, who in my opinion, is a top two
quarterback in the Big twelve, is not paid like a
top two quarterback in the Big twelve. He took a
lesser contract so that they'd be able to bring back
(25:47):
some other guys as part of this team. And so
when you look at this group, I mean, this should
be one of the best offenses in the conference. You know,
Sawyer again, a top two quarterback. I think Bryson is
to me maybe clearly the number one running back heading
into the year. There's some other guys who will get
in the conversation I think as the year goes on,
but he heading in I think, is clear running back one.
(26:09):
Josh Cameron at receivers, a former non scholarship player who
really showed out. He's a big bodied guy, long arms,
great hands. They've got a tight end, and Michael Trigg
who really came along in the second half of the year.
Four starters back on the offensive line. But the thing
that I haven't mentioned is the defense, and that's kind
of the thing that has to take that step forward.
They really struggled in the secondary, but they brought in
(26:32):
a fantastic secondary coach and Paul Gonzalez, who is the
guy at TCU who developed two Thorpe Award winners, and
Trey Hodges, Tomlinson and Treyvon Merrick. So a lot I
think to be excited about with this team. Again, I
hinted that Baylor is my number or sorry, that Texas
Tech is my number one in the Big Twelve. I
have them playing Baylor in the Big Twelve title game, which,
(26:54):
by the way, these two teams have played every year
since like nineteen seventy and they're not on each other
schedule this year, so I think it would only be
fitting for them to get a chance to play once
again in Arlington.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Yeah, that's it's an opportunity. That would be an interesting
Big Twelve championship game. As you say, and that's all
the time that we've got, and we really do appreciate
you coming on. Normally this time in the show, we
ask our guests what they're what they're up to, and
what our listeners can watch out for. And without preempting
what you're going to say, I saw that you you
(27:29):
started a brand new podcast show yesterday, So let's let's
hear what you're up to and what we can watch
out for in the next few weeks.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
Yeah, we, just like you mentioned on Monday, launched a
new podcast over at CBS Sports called The College Football Insiders.
You know, I feel like we have as good a
team right now at CBS Sports as anybody in the industry,
and all six of us are part of the show.
It's a rotating cast of guys and we'll be going
three times a week during the regular season. But the
(28:01):
show is what it sounds like. It's us getting together
and talking about what we're hearing, and you know, whether
it's news and notes from camp, whether it's insight into
some of the biggest storylines. I'll tell you what. We'll
get a chance to talk about the whole situation with
Oklahoma's quarterback on tomorrow's show, which is at two pm
Eastern Time in America, So we're streaming it live on YouTube.
(28:23):
You can also get it anywhere you get your podcasts,
and you can find all my other work as usual
over at cbsports dot com and on my social media
feeds at Shanji Raja on every platform.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Well, that's awesome. We'll watch out for that. That's all
from us, Thanks for listening and supporting us, Stay safe
and will and catch you all next time.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!