#12 - Immigrant Mentality w/Jearnest Corchado

Josh is joined by actress Jearnest Corchado, best known for her roles in Little America on Apple TV+ and Sneakerheads on Netflix! We talk about immigration, and the what’s wrong with the stories told on TV and how they can be better. We have a great conversation about the importance of not “othering” groups in the name of progress. Rejection is hard, but quitting is even harder. Enjoy this episode!

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hey guys, it's Josh. Itis let's see. You're getting this episode
on Monday, October twenty sixth,just in time for Halloween. This episode
I recorded, i want to say, last week or maybe the week before
that, with actress Journast Corcado,and it was a really great conversation.

(00:20):
I will I will warn you theaudio of this episode has been a real
pain in my ass, so ifyou'd like to watch the video, and
quite frankly, it's probably better anywaybecause you get to see people's faces and
you get to see there, youknow, excitement and enthusiasm or misery.
But you can check that out onFacebook dot com slash Josh Danny Official under

(00:43):
the video section, and you canalso check it out on YouTube dot com
slash Josh Danny Comedy. You canfind all the darkest Hour videos there as
well. But yeah, this wasa really good episode with a really great
up and coming actress. I've hada couple of those right now, so
I feel like I gotta have somedudes on here soon so I don't look
like I'm you know, Brett Ratneror Brian's singer or I guess those guys,

(01:11):
not necessarily, maybe Rattner, butBrian Singer more with the Young Lads
is the rumor. Um, youget all your rumors here first at the
Darkest Hour podcast. Um No,but yeah, I gotta I gotta have
a break from interviewing actresses so Idon't turn into James Lipton. What is

(01:34):
your favorite curse word? It's justkind of creepy. And you know,
David Letterman's doing that now, thatthat whole total creep thing, James Lipton
thing. Now that he's dead,Letterman's kind of just taken up that mantle
with his Netflix show, which isfine, he can do that. Who
am I to judge? But yeah, that's what are we talking about out

(02:00):
here. It's we're talking about Letterman. We're talking about you know, It's
it's kind of stupid. Anyway,enjoy this episode, and before you get
into this episode, enjoy some ads. And you guys may have noticed that
there are more ads in the episodeslately, and pretty soon we're gonna have
an opportunity for you to get thepodcast ad free through Patreon or not Patreon,

(02:25):
probably only fans something like that.There'll be some paywalled version we can.
Let's do an ad free because adscan be annoying, but dad just
gotta pay the bills that way,so it is what it is. Man,
enjoy these ads. I hope youlike them. If not, you
know, join my only fans.Maybe I'll post some stuff with my asshole

(02:45):
open. You don't know, youdon't know what's gonna be. It could
be anything, could be you know, could be spread a could be a
little bit of here's me in thekitchen cooking sandwiches. Oh no, I
dropped my towel that I cook in, and now it's a it's a fun
surprise. I hope my knife skillsare good. This is dumb, guys.

(03:07):
Enjoy this is just not doing thisepisode. I just enjoyed this episode.
I've been up way too late tryingto edit these and you could definitely
tell. So yeah, I hopeyou like it. Hello darkness, smile
friend. I've come to talk withyou again because a vision softly creeping left

(03:34):
it sees while I was sleeping,and the vision that was planted in mad
rain stillings. There's two ways tosee things like in the world. One
is to try to find a wayto laugh at it, and the other
is to just live a miserable existencewhere you're unhappy about everything. What the

(03:57):
fuck is that you million did theduck? I was wanting it? That
seems really dark. Now it's notdark. You misunderstanding me. Bro,
this is gonna get dark for people. No, God, please, no.
Do you think that anybody that doesenjoy dark comedy that it's indicative of
a deeper evil? I'm nak.Can't do you understand? I'm in nak.

(04:30):
I really I like to get intolike the psychology of why people are
sort of like critical or trollish withyou know, successful people, or what
kind of drives that behavior. Butyou gotta be a little bit careful,
I think with how much you're sortof willing to understand that sort of troll
mindset, because you can kind offall into that cycle of thinking too.

(04:56):
I think if you if you tryto like that, you definitely want to
be somewhat compassionate and go like,I'm trying to understand maybe where this person
is coming from, or why they'rehurting or they're feeling a certain way,
and maybe what they're projecting. Butthen after a while you just sort of
have to go like, Okay,there's no helping these people, like you
know, some people are just gonnabe negative no matter what the same thing
as bullies in real life. Likeusually bullies have another bully, you know,

(05:20):
like have like a bully themselves,so they need to like or they're
like very insecure and they're like afraidof people like targeting them, so they
rather just do it first. It'slike, I'm sure there's a psychology to
it, but you're right, You'reright. You can just have to let
people be and keep going and notthink too much about it. Yeah.
There. I had a very goodmentor early in my adult life who was

(05:42):
like something like, you know,seventy percent or what is it, like
twenty percent of what twenty percent ofyour life is what happens to you.
The other eighty percent is how youlet it affect you. And so I
think that's good advice. And themore you sort of like live by that,
I think the happier you are,particularly the more exposure you get to
people, and you know, themore you're sort of in the public eye,

(06:05):
the more you're going to be susceptibleto that. Like you're going to
be exposed to it whether you wantit or not. And you have a
great experience with that recently. Yeah, what has that been? What has
that been like for you? Imean, obviously you know, I think
the first big one was Little America, right, which you won an award
for, so congratulations on that.What was that like? You know what,

(06:29):
I personally haven't seen any bad commentfrom Little America, so it hasn't
been like if I don't know,maybe I'm just like too much in my
bubble where I don't get to seethose. Yeah, and so far,
I think before Sneaker has, Ithink that I had a pretty like like
a small amount of followers, somost of them still felt seen by me,

(06:54):
and I think that they didn't allowthemselves to like really say bad things
to me. But I think thatas as my followers grow bigger and bigger,
I think that people feel a littlebit more anonymous and they might feel
a little bit more okay with sayinghow they feel. I'm still kind of
like getting used to it. Ihaven't had too much hate yet. But

(07:16):
you know, all my life Ihad bullies or like people that wanted to
like make me feel bad all mylife ever since I was really little,
So I think I definitely became verytough and like had a tough skin.
Was that was that part of yourupbringing? Do you think do you feel
like you were raised tough? Ithink that yeah. And I think I

(07:39):
because of girls who just like feltI don't know, if intimidated or just
like, oh, she thinks she'sbetter than because I always wanted. I
always had this big personality and Ialways like I was always very like blibable,
you know, in my like littlebubble, and I think that people
don't necessarily like that, and Iunderstand it. It's a lot sometimes I

(08:01):
get it. I get it.Yeah, I get it. You know,
when you're a teenager and you're justkind of like in that phase of
like hating life and you have aclassmate who's like, oh, life is
good. I'm sure that you know. I'm an easy target, but um,
I think that it did help mebecome tougher and and just kind of
like kind of like more I don'tcare. People will be whatever they want

(08:26):
to be and whatever other people dojust shouldn't affect me, Like that's their
problem at the end of the day. Yeah, that's a healthy mindset to
have when it comes to that sortof thing. I think, you know,
and the other thing is like Ithink there's probably no greater evil in
the world. This is very dramaticfor me to say it like this,
but uh, then to make somebodyfeel bad for being themselves like uh,

(08:50):
and that sounds like anybody who's likea fan of mine who hears that,
it's like, that's like very progressivefor job. But it's it's not even
that. It's sort of like it'swhat you talk about, like when you're
just sort of being yourself and you'rebeing sort of this bright and open person,
regardless of what shape that takes onfor other people to make you feel
like you should feel bad about that, I think it's super evil because of

(09:13):
how often it works, Like sooften there are these like really great,
beautiful personalities of young people who theysort of like they feel that at a
young age, and then they justthey stop being themselves more and more each
day because of the way that thereaction makes them feel. And it takes

(09:35):
a very tough, brave person tosort of filter that out and to keep
being themselves, you know, throughall of that, and you know it's
it's it's very sad to me whenyou see it work. And that's why
it's sad, is because it doeswork on so many people. It gets
so many people to be less themselvesevery day. And it's not even like
just people in the public eye.It's like, you know, the creative

(09:58):
kit. Yeah, it's like thatcreative kid in high school who was made
to feel weird or you know,and it's and it's not just like the
sexy stories that Hollywood loves to tell. Is when that takes the shape of
like a gay kid who was bulliedand couldn't feel himself or you know,
a person of color who was bulliedand doesn't feel themselves. But like,
it happens to everybody and everybody.That is a universal thing that I think

(10:22):
we can all relate to is thateverybody sort of at some point was told
that who they were in some waywasn't okay or liked by other people.
And then they're forced to make achoice of do I keep being myself in
spite of that feedback, or doI change a little bit? And that
change, that decision to change alittle bit is where I think we all
start to die a little bit andlose what makes us all so unique and

(10:46):
special. Yeah, I definitely thinkthat it happens in society once you signed
the contract of being part of thissociety, it feels like you have to
be like follow the rules and becomewhatever everyone else is doing. But at
the end of the day, likeI learned pretty young, I learned that
because of that because I had alwayssomeone was going to say something. So

(11:07):
I kind of always felt seen becauseof that, because people wanted to point
out something that I was doing.And so in a way, it kind
of I had that. It wasit was a mindset because at that point
you have to really just have amindset of like, well, people are
gonna hate me regardless or they're gonnalove me regardless, so I don't as

(11:28):
well be me, you know.Yeah, So it just kind of like
I guess I had just that flipof like, well, people are gonna
say whatever they're gonna say for whatever, like they're just gonna keep talking.
So I guess I made that decision. But I don't think that a lot
of people see it that way.And if you're weak minded, unfortunately,
it can really torn you apart.And I think that's why I in a

(11:54):
way, I want people to seeme and just say hey, I'm weird
too, and I you know,like it's okay to be weird. Like
I really love whatever weird is.I think that people are just more exciting
and more interesting if they are notthe usual. But that's just me being
like a nerdy kid, you know, who are like who loved art and

(12:15):
like loves creativity. Well, that'sthat's what I think. No, I
think that's great, and like youknow, I think, um, I
think there needs to be more ofa more daring sort of mentality from people
in society to be that way.It's like, because that's where all the
interesting stuff comes out of. LikeI've had this. It's not really like
a conspiracy theory, but I havehad a theory about, um, the

(12:39):
shift that's happening in Hollywood in theindustry right now, which is, for
the longest time, it was likethe prettiest are the people that seemed the
most perfect, are the people thatseemed to have everything? Are the people
who seemed the most put together?And now I think it's pivoting to where
success is being awarded to those whoare truly the most authentic. I think
we've seen the pretty and the perfectand the facade for long enough now that

(13:01):
viewers are like, I want thereal person, and so I think,
you know, the more people getto either do roles that they can express
themselves in, or the more thatthey get to be part of projects,
or the more that they do pressor whatever, where people can really connect
with who someone actually is, thepeople who come off as the most authentic,
the most real, or the mostrelatable, which has always been a

(13:24):
really important thing for comedians, butI think it's becoming important for everyone in
the public eye now. Is thatpeople have to be able to see themselves
in you, They have to beable to relate to you in some way,
and so being this sort of perfect, untouchable person in the industry is
not as appealing today as I thinksomebody who comes off as authentic and themselves
even if they're a little weird orwhatever, because I think everyone holds out

(13:48):
hope that they're weird thing is whatmakes them interesting too. Yeah, I
agree, I agree. I'm seeingthat more and more. I think that
like the fact that sort of likeI think it happens because social media too,
where like you feel like you canyou can actually connect with another person.
And like before I think that peoplewere just like these untouchable celebrities,

(14:09):
right there was there was this hugewall between them and the public, right,
and they were these like big screenyou know, big stars, and
I think now it's it's not notlike that anymore. Yeah, I think
you're right. I think you're right, and that I think that um,
because that veil has been lifted alittle bit. People are like, Okay,

(14:31):
well, now that I know thatthese are just regular people, then
I expect them to be like meor to behave like me in a regular
way. And so you know,that's why I think we are like at
the end of the day, likewe're all human, like yeah, or
they were all human and they wereall like they were they all had these
I think the cool thing is thatI feel for a little bit of time

(14:52):
and I think I can say likemaybe the last thirty years because by the
Betty Davis era or like those likeblack and white films, Yes, it
always cared about being beautiful, butI think that there was people cared more
about the art, and then therewas a moment like maybe until now hopefully
we're like everyone always saw on TVwere like models and like very attractive,

(15:16):
good looking, like a hundred outof ten, you know, like type
of people and I think now hopefullywe're shifting and going back to the art.
And uh, well with this face, I have to hope you're right,
shut up not. I hope sotoo. It's it's it's you know,

(15:37):
like I personally think that beauty orwhatever beauty is, it's it's a
very temperate. It can be atemporary thing, or it can be a
very We're all going to be oldone day. And you know, I
think that people have put so muchemphasis in like their looks and forgotten about

(15:58):
really becoming a good person and likesomeone that actually like me, Like you
know, someone that like actually likeI don't know, like a good person,
you know, like someone that's actuallyinteresting. Yeah. Well, and
I think you want, like Ithink we all ultimately deep down want people
to like us for what we likein ourselves. And so you know,
if if you don't really know whatthat is, it's hard for other people

(16:19):
to be attracted to it or likeit as well. And so you kind
of have to find that thing aboutyourself that makes you unique or special or
or makes you that you like aboutyou and then share that with other people
and hope that they like it too. I mean, that's it sounds like
an oversimplification. But but and beautyis completely relative, and it's completely relative,

(16:40):
Like whatever is beautiful to you mightnot be beautiful to me. So
it's like that's also another thing,like Hollywood for so many years thought that
being like whatever you know, like, well, look at how it's changed.
I mean, like woman was morebeautiful than a black woman. Yeah,
and that's not true. That's nottrue. That's just whatever they thought,

(17:03):
right. I think that. Ithink that also Hollywood has a responsibility
to seeing all types and shapes andskin colors as equally beautiful because they are
not the ones to determine that.It's world and the audience. I also
think you have to consider that peoplecan still be surprised too, because like
I'll give you a personal example.I remember growing up as a kid and

(17:27):
thinking like, oh, this isthis is what I'm attracted to, and
then you meet somebody that is completelynot that, and you go like,
I'm more attracted to this person,and so you kind of like grow and
develop and eventually over time, likeI'm pretty old, I'm thirty seven,
and eventually over time you realize likeyeah, ancient to Hollywood, sixty uh

(17:51):
No, But uh, but um, you know, eventually you get to
a point where you're like, oh, it's there's really not I don't really
have a type. It's really morelike I like the path page, meaning
like it's not just how someone looks, but it's it's their personality, it's
their vibe, it's everything else thatkind of comes in that package. And
I think, you know, Hollywoodhas to do that for its own survival,

(18:12):
because you know, if you're notshowing all the possible packages, then
you're not speaking any truth to reality. And the reality is is now we
live in a world where you know, beauty and that spark comes in so
many flavors and so many varieties thatyou would be doing yourself and your art
a disservice if you didn't go findthose people, Like and you don't just

(18:36):
want to find the sparky white peopleor black people or Latin people, you
want to find them, all right. And and my girlfriend, being Middle
Eastern, is often the forgotten groupthere because it's like, as all of
these other groups start to get morerepresentation and more stories, she'll still get
breakdowns that are like, we're lookingfor terrorists number five, and she's like,

(18:59):
Okay, like at some point she'slike, it's some I know.
And so that was one of thethings that was really cool about Little America's
first we watched your episode because youwon an award for it, and that's
the one that everyone said is thebest. And then we watched the Iranian
episode, which was one of thefirst pieces of television that and and of

(19:22):
course I loved um I think it'scalled Here and Now that Alan Ball did
for HBO only for one season,but it was an incredible show with Holly
Hunter. Holly Hunter's in it,uh, the guy from Yeah, the
guy from Shawshank what's his name?Tim? What about? Why am I
forgetting his name? Tim Robbins isin it, and then a bunch of
like young actors, and then Petermcdissie, which is actually I think Alan

(19:47):
Ball's I don't know if they're married, if that's his husband, or if
it's just a significant other, buthe basically plays sort of like a conservative
Iranian who is sort of rebelling aagainst traditional Islam. And so there's like
this huge compelling argument or compelling characterconflict, internal conflict there. But it

(20:08):
was, like I thought it wasone of the best shows on HBO and
it just didn't get picked up fora second season. And there's so many
shows like that that are like incrediblygreat shows and they just don't really find
their audience out of the gate.And I think that also certain shows take
time to find their audience, andyeah, canceling a show in their first

(20:29):
season, it's like, I don'tI don't agree with that. I think
that a lot of especially with somuch content right now, canceling something that
you haven't even allowed people to find, it's like how or they don't give
that much marketing. There's so manylayers to that, but well, I
mean a good example is Breaking Bad. That show almost didn't survive and a

(20:49):
lot of people now think it's oneof the greatest of all time exactly,
yeah, exactly, and you haveit. I think that that's a beautiful
metaphor to just like, you know, you have to allow people and allow
shows to grow and develop and youknow, and then eventually you're gonna like

(21:11):
might love them and see where they'regoing, you know. And Little America
was one of those shows that justright up the Bad I mean, and
Little America, even Little America,which is an amazing show and it's not
just because I'm in it, butit's actually right that I'm very proud of
as as an audience, as animmigrant, as a part of the show,
I'm just like wow, Like thisis something that's so different and so

(21:34):
needed, and it's an art formof a show, but a lot of
people don't know about it. Well. The thing I loved about Little America,
and you talked about this in anotherinterview you did one time, but
you you were like, I can'tbelieve this show is controversial. And it
was sort of controversial before it evercame out because of the subject matter that
it prepared to tackle, right,which was sort of like eye opening immigration

(21:59):
stories. And I think maybe thereason some of it got an eye roll
in the beginning is because every timepeople have said that they're going to do
that kind of story, it endsup being sort of a stereotypical story,
right, And then you watch LittleAmerica and you go, oh, no,
these are the stories I want tosee, these stories of like excellence
and overcoming and willpower, And tome, that is like, that is

(22:22):
the thing that I think it's tooreduced in the discussion of immigration when we
talk about in the political sphere andin society and America is like everyone talks
about immigration is like this black andwhite thing of you know, while you're
either a citizen or you're not acitizen, and there's not this sort of
myriad of story that happens from onepoint to the next. And I like,
I love your episode because of thestory and it's just like wow,

(22:47):
you know, this is a familywho literally has almost nothing and is still
like fighting and you know, committingto something. And I think the story
was like great in terms of likepersonal discipline and a commitment to personal excellence
and saying that like your environment doesn'thave to dictate the outcome. Those are

(23:10):
messages that every person should hear,Like, those are message, those are
the stories you should be telling.I agree that that whole show is it's
just very beautifully written and like andthat's what we want to tell, you
know, as just humans in general, we want to tell stories that inspire
other people and that immigrants are notalways they're not victims right now, Yeah,

(23:33):
that's you said. The key wordthere. I love that is that
they're not. Yeah. I feellike there's so much of weaponization of immigration
that like every immigrant is a victim, and it's like, there are these
incredible immigrant stories and that's what reallylike tugged at my heartstrings watching Little America
was like, these are the immigrantsstories that don't get told enough. Are
the the champions and the people whoovercome. And you know, to me,

(23:56):
as an American who was born here, that mode evates me to be
like, what the fuck am Idoing with the opportunity that I got living
here that other people would kill for? Right, That's beautiful because I think,
you know, and I have alot of conversations with with all,
Like I love just having all thesetype of conversations that are like controversial or

(24:17):
not. You know, I thinkthat all have to have it. Yeah,
part of evolving as humans, andit might be uncomfortable for some,
but they're very needed in order togrow. And you know, I just
think that people sometimes don't realize aboutthe blessings of being American of course,
and like and it's not like noone is taking an opportunity from you.

(24:41):
No opportunities are there, and youjust have to have the mentality of like
I'm going to work for that andI'm just gonna believe that I can do
it. At the end of theday, it doesn't matter you raise your
age anything. It's a mentality thing. Yeah, and that that was actually
kind of what I loved about theIranian story on Little America about the father

(25:02):
buying. You know, he's sortof like this career hustler who is always
trying to find the next angle,right, which, if you know Persian
people, is that's very much acultural thing of like what is my advantage
to these and they're always sort oflike setting the table, yes, well,
and very very problem solving in termsof like the mindset, right,

(25:26):
And so he's like, I'm goingto buy this piece of land for next
to nothing and then I'm gonna I'mgonna find a way to make it work
and turn a profit. And thething I love about that story is that
he loses, it doesn't work out, but he just moves on to the
next thing. And so to me, it's like this great that was this
just a great story of resilience oflike, if you stay committed to yourself

(25:48):
and committed to your family and youkeep working hard at it, you might
fail a hundred times before you win. But you know, it's about having
the right mindset all the way throughit, and I loved what they showed
in terms of like his relationship withhis family and how much he supported his
son, you know, wanting tobe a musician, and you know,

(26:08):
I just felt like those are thestories. It's like such a it's not
really like this exceptional grand story,but I thought it was really cool that
they told it anyway, because themindset is exceptional exactly. And I think
that sometimes we've been seeing all theseAvenger films that we love because they are

(26:29):
those grandeur and like heroes. Soglad, I'm glad brought up the Avengers
because I have I have a hypothesisand I want to ask you about this,
but we'll get to that in asecond. Okay, okay, So,
but yeah, we watch all thesestories because they do inspire us.
And I love that we can watchthem and be so inspired by them because
yeah, they tell a beautiful story, but also we are heroes and having

(26:51):
like these. What I love aboutLittle Americas that it showed immigrants, but
any human because it really just likeportrays a human. It's a human story,
the human story and their little smallbubble like persevering and then their own
dream and their own and in theworld we see every person has a story

(27:12):
like that. Every single person hasa story of perseverance and and wanting to
do something and following a dream,whether it's huge or small. And I
think that's why it was so importantto tell that story that it's not about
the winning and it's not about youknow, find like finding that success,
but the process of that and tokeep going and keep moving forward. Well,

(27:36):
I have said for the longest timethat I've I it's amazing when you
watch actresses and actors and you'll seethem in something that is like they're okay
in and then you see them insomething that they're amazing in and the person
I think that doesn't often get thecredit for that as the director, because
I feel like for that perfect stormto happen, and your episode the Jaguar

(27:59):
was one that perfect storm where Ifelt like you wouldn't have been able to
nail that part if you didn't connectwith the story on some level. And
I feel like you probably just basedon the execution, I don't know any
of the backstory, you probably hada director that also was really able to
connect with the story to where you'reall putting yourself into it and it becomes

(28:19):
this new thing, which is thisstory that you're all telling together based on
a shared experience, yep, exactly. And and Aurora, which is she's
a woman, a Latina woman.Her name is Arora Guerrero, and she
is an amazing director. Like Ithink that that woman is going to become

(28:41):
one of the A lister directors.And she really did connect with the story.
But also she's a brain, she'sa genius. And you know,
I agree with that because I thinkthat my best work is always with a
good director, with an amazing director, and someone that can really guide me

(29:03):
and well and is willing at theend of the day, were Yeah,
if we have the right captain,we're gonna do wonderful things. And they
have to be willing to pull itout of you like I had. You
know, again, it's it's awhole different world, but hosting your own
sort of like reality travel log show. The difference between a director who's willing
to push you for that extra houra day versus the person who's like,

(29:23):
we got it, let's get outof here. Is the difference between episodes
that sucked and episodes that were incredibleor fun or great that did really well.
And so as the story becomes somuch more important to that, I
think the the the acting and everythingelse is so reliant on people being invested

(29:44):
in getting it right and doing thestory justice. Like I just watched the
movie Swallow last night with Hayley Bennett. Did you see that? Yeah,
so there was like this, Uh, there's you should watch it. There's
a scene at the end where she'ssort of confront the thing that put her
on her path in life of beingin a very unhappy place, and she's

(30:06):
face I don't want to spoil itfor you, but she's face to face
with the thing that led to allof her trauma. And Haley in that
moment does better acting in that scenethan probably ninety five percent of the Academy
Award winners for the last twenty years. And it's like there is there's obviously
a talent component there, but tome, it's like so much of that

(30:30):
had to be the director being like, we're not leaving the until this feels
real, until this is one hundredpercent of the way there, and this
is the payoff for this film,and if it doesn't land, then the
film falls flat. And it's likethe power the emotional ability and the fortitude

(30:51):
to reach into another human being andpull that out of them is so mind
blowing to me. And when yousee it, even if it's like an
inspiring story like the one you didfor a Little America, it's like it's
hard not to get choked up becauseyou're like, oh my god, this
person is channeling into this thing thatI've felt and I remember how it made
me feel, and you're seeing thatemotion represented on the screen. And that's

(31:15):
the thing that I think people relateto forget about like the color or the
ethnicity of the story or any ofthat. It's like, like you said,
you're getting to it on a veryhuman level, and you're using all
the darkness and the anger and you'repulling all of that out. And the
thing I thought was like that wascool about the way you played that character
was I think you played it ina way where the relatable piece is that

(31:41):
even like people who are kind oflike smooth and have it together, have
some anger inside them about certain things. And I thought you played that so
well in that she came off aslike angry but wanting a place to direct
it and wanting to find a wayto channel it into something positive and productive,
not somebody who's anger necessarily devolved intobeing destructive, which are often the

(32:05):
stories that are told, right,And so I thought it was really cool
to see that sort of um,that push of you know, a young
person who could have went either wayin their life and then found this thing
and your relationship with your coach andthe show was great. That, Like,
it's so many things. It's likeif the casting doesn't come together,
if the talent isn't there, ifthe director is there, takes this real

(32:28):
perfect storm. But boy, boy, do I absolutely love the finished result
when it all comes together like that. It Yeah, we were really lucky,
I mean, and it's it's it'sa testament to to having a great
director, to having a wonderful director, Um, someone that had the vision.
And now let's talk about the baddirectors. Go, no, I'm

(32:52):
kidding. Yeah, I could talkabout those. Yeah, of course,
that's that's that's the behind the scenes, right, those we never talk about.
I wasn't good maybe like fifty years, you know, whenever you don't
care anymore. Yeah, once thatperson's long left the business, then you

(33:12):
can sort of but um no,um, that's funny. Um, I
think that she It's crazy because eveneven during the process, you know,
I think even with Marisol, Iwas I. I brought whatever I thought
was her and then having a partnerlike my director and her vision and then

(33:34):
finding that together. I think that'sreally where the magic happens together. And
that's why you know film is whatit is because it takes a lot of
different elements and of course the casting, like I don't know how we got
so lucky. But even through thatprocess, the days are crazy and you
don't know if you know, youdon't know how it's gonna end. Yeah,

(33:55):
seeing the end, the end,the final product, it's like wow,
like that's what I was trying todo, but wow, like,
yeah, I'm glad that it allbecame that, you know, well,
even and so much even happens inthe editing. Like I always tell people,
the first two short films I made, I edited myself, and I
was like, oh, nobody shouldbe allowed to call themselves a director until

(34:19):
they spend one hundred hours editing something, because you have no idea what you're
actually looking at until you try tocut a film together. And I mean,
and you've made shorts too, soyou have some perspective on this as
well, right, like, ohyeah, it's editing can make or break
the project absolutely, Like you couldshoot something that looks beautiful and if it
doesn't cut together, you don't havea movie. You don't or a film

(34:42):
or you know, a short orwhatever. Ingle time I need the editor
of whatever project I do, I'mlike, thank you for me and me
look good, right, thank youbecause even when I'm I'm on my set
here, this is like where Ido self dates all the time. And
one of my frustrations sometimes is likeI love the first part of it and

(35:02):
then at the end I mess somethingup and I'm like, ahh, like
if I could only like edit ittogether, right, want this, but
I didn't like the last part.I wish I could have ended it like
this, But you can't. Inauditions you can't do that, and which
is not real because then you get, you know, when you are actually

(35:22):
making a film, you get toedit it together, and so um no,
no editing. I think it's whatwhere the magic really happens. Yeah,
well, and to me, that'sthe difference between something that's like that
really really hits and lands or somethingthat just doesn't really work. Is you
know, how does the edit cometogether? And you know, and yeah,
and I think it's like it soundsvery reductive or simple, but it's

(35:45):
like you have to get it firstwhen you're shooting, Like if you don't
actually get the great thing, youknow, then then you didn't get it
and you got to move on,and you're never gonna have it because you
don't really get to go short ofyou know, those sort of major Avenger
movies where you can go back anddo one hundred million dollars reshoots if you
have to, you're never going toget the opportunity to go back and do

(36:07):
it. And so it's like creatingthe moment, capturing the moment, and
then yeah, being able to cutthe moment together in a story. It's
all those things have to fall intoplace, and I am I'm amazed at
how it's still seeing it get donebecause of how much the business is sort
of pivoted to cheap, quick,easy, digestible content right where it's like,

(36:30):
you know, people would rather comeup with a reality show and throw
two guys with you know, seethree hundreds out in the field and a
dude holding a boom and try tocapture something that's going to sell a lot
of advertising that way versus actually creatinga compelling story. And you know,
the one thing that's really scary aboutright now with all the streaming and everything

(36:50):
else, is now that it's almostlike the box office has become reserved for
these big budget productions, where thisamazing. All the movies I like were
growing up were like independent films,like the film that nobody knew about,
that was made for a cheap budgetand that just told a good story.
And those are the movies that aredesperately threatened right now in the state of

(37:14):
filmmaking today. And that's that's scaryto me as a fan of those things,
because that's where I feel like thestars are born. Yeah, I
agree, I agree. I thinklike Jennifer Lawrence, Jennifer Lawrence never becomes
the star of Hunger Games without Winter'sBone, and that movie probably wouldn't have
gotten made today. Yeah, it'sreally it's crazy. I think I think

(37:39):
people are you know, I thinkpeople are still trying. I think it's
just harder. It's it's it's reallyhard to be seen by these markets.
I mean Netflix is kind of openingthat for indie filmmakers. Yeah, definitely,
Um, I hope Amazon and likeyou know, Hulu keeps going and
all these other um, but Ithink even now, look, I have

(38:01):
my film Raise your Hand. It'sa movie that I did about five years
ago, wow, not four yearsago, four years ago, and it's
one of the films that I reallyjust you know, it was when I
was just starting too, so whenpeople see it, they're gonna see your
nest like four years ago. Yeah, but it was a film that it

(38:22):
was so low budget and everyone wasjust pouring their heart to this film and
we were all starting and it wasjust this like kind of like kids kind
of film, you know, likekids, oh yeah, or you know,
yeah, those type of films thatare very indiep And that was the
first really that was like the firstreally gritty indie film that got me because

(38:44):
I was probably when that came out, I was maybe eleven or twelve,
and I remember seeing that movie theylike, oh shit, there's these kinds
of movies I didn't even know existed. Like that was the first movie where
I was like, oh, there'slike gratuitous drug use with teenagers. Like
it opened my eyes up to aulture that I hadn't been exposed to yet
it was because I was too young. It wasn't because I lived in a

(39:05):
part of the country that was isolatedfrom it. I grew up in Philadelphia.
Then, right, yeah, Ithink so, and then so raise
your hand. It was it's kindof that film that when when I you
know, when I read the scriptback then, he was like Sandra b
and now Sandra Bland, which isone of you know, the Black Lives
Matter, like she's a victim ofthat um or she was a victim of

(39:28):
that. Now people know her namemore. But back then, in twenty
sixteen, she had just died bya like it was police brutality. Yeah,
she for people that don't know thatare watching, Sandra Bland was the
woman who was arrested, detained ina vehicle and didn't survive to even to
the station, like was literally murderedin the police ban or whatever on the

(39:52):
way murdered. I think, inwhat is it? Prison is one thing
and then jail is another one.Right right, she's on her way too.
Yeah, I don't even think shehad made it to jail. I
think she hadn't even been intaken yet. No, no, yeah, that
you was staying overnight and then apparentlyshe committed suicide, right, yeah,
I mean there's there's so many yeah, so and listen, like, regardless

(40:17):
of where you fall on the politicalspectrum whatever, I don't think anybody disagrees
that our police needed pretty big overhaulingin terms of like oversight and making sure
that when But but you can't evenreally stop at police because it's all of
government. We've got to come upwith a system to where we're we're rooting
out corruption and getting rid of itacross all government because where I live in

(40:37):
California, it doesn't stop with thepolice. Unfortunately, it's all of it.
It's all gross and it all Nowat the end of the day,
we have to realize that we havepower. And I think that hopefully people
have realized that twenty twenty is thatyear of like, hey, we come
together, we can actually change things. Well, you got to remind these
people that they work for us,like and if they don't. If they

(41:00):
don't work for us, they don'tget to keep working for us. And
it's kind of like um, Isaid, I had this. I have
this big issue with that side ofthe industry is that U like sometimes agents
and managers if you have bad ones, they forget who they work for and
they'll start talking to you like you'rean employee and not a partner, and

(41:20):
you know, and so it's kindof I feel like government has kind of
fallen into that same thing where youknow, the people that you collaborate with
or are supposed to be working withyour best interest in mind forget. I
think they think that they're a monarchyand we have to show them that it's
a democracy. And I think,you know, like they've been treating the
government as a monarchy and like almostas they as because they're rich they should

(41:44):
have that position. It's not likethat. But but yeah, but talking
to about raise your hand my film, it's been four years, right,
and no one was really interested indistributing it, or or at least it
wasn't they didn't think. I don'treally know the bad ground of that.
But finally we got this new filmfestival I think it's called and I'm sorry

(42:06):
that I don't know it. Itjust happened yesterday, but it's a social
justice film festival that came out withMichael B. Jordan being one of the
heads or the founders of it,and the film is finally going to see
the light because of that, becausenow there's you know, the there's film
festivals that are now targeting or wantto show these showcase these films. But

(42:30):
going back to what we were talkingabout, sometimes these indies just get to
the film festival and then it's reallyhard to get distribution after sure they're not
marketable well. And a good exampletoo is like the thing I love is
and I'll be totally honest and transparentabout this, growing up, the narrative

(42:52):
around the Central Park five. Igrew up in Philadelphia. I grew up
in that time. The narrative aroundthat was no way near the reality of
what happened, and so you kindof grew up thinking like there's this sort
of like criminal element of New Yorkthat needs to be dealt with, and
you know there's a lot of theserapes and murders, and you know,

(43:13):
this is just kind of more ofthat. And what Aver Duvenai did with
that series, and particularly the kidwho played Corey in that episode like so
powerful to see like the level ofpolice manipulation, the level of something.
And listen what I said it mightbe controversial about this, is that piece

(43:34):
of film, that short series thatAva did about the central part five did
more for bringing light to the corruptionin police and sentencing and the problem with
sentencing laws and the problem with DNAand all of those things than the last
thirty years of activism. And Iknow activists aren't gonna like to hear that,

(43:54):
but like the Innocence Project needs piecesof content like what Ava did and
maybe like the film you're talking about, to shed light on those things to
the people that otherwise aren't paying attentionto looking. They're not looking for those
pieces of corruption, they're not lookingfor those stories. You know, people

(44:15):
were not ready And when people watchraise your hand, I just hope that
they see, you know, thetype of film that it is, because
people weren't ready to see that movie. Producers and distributors and all of those
people that make decisions weren't ready forthat film four years ago, ago,
two years ago. They're ready nowright well, and in a lot of

(44:35):
ways they have they have to be, and they have to be because this
is what people. People are finallywaking up and we are changing and we're
evolving, and we're being just moreconscious and general conscious in general. And
I think that that's where we're goingand I don't think that we are going
to be able to after this year. I don't think that people will be
able to go back to the cave. Yeah, that's a that's a a

(45:00):
good way to put it, goingback to the cave. Well, and
I think, you know, it'slike there is what I think Ava did
very very well in that is likeyou have to get the people that don't
feel like they're part of that problembought in that there is a problem and
that they could be a part ofchanging it. You know, like you
watch that story and you just golike, well, yeah, I'm sure

(45:22):
there's corrupt police, but like whatdoes that look like? Right, Because
in a way, we had showsin the late nineties early two thousands like
The Shield that almost sort of glorifiedpolice corruption, right. It was sexy.
It was this antihero thing, andyou kind of thought like, well,
the world is a fucked up place, and so for police to do
their job, they have to bea little fucked up to you start making

(45:44):
these justifications. And then you seethat story of like thirteen and fourteen year
old boys being coerced into basically givingtheir life away, threatened into giving their
life away, so that some fuckingdistrict attorney can keep her conviction record looking
good. I mean, and thatwoman is literally going to go to the

(46:07):
grave refusing to say that she didthe wrong thing, which is, like,
that is a level of evil thatI don't think people realize exist.
Is that self righteousness is a dangerous, dangerous thing in our society, and
there are people self righteousness. Sothat woman literally would have let those five

(46:27):
young black boys go to the death, to death, like be sentenced to
death to not be wrong. Andthat's that's terrifying shit to see that,
Oh it is. It's it's thefull evil, Like that is that is
evil personified, and that's you know, and and that kind of like that

(46:49):
is I think, like the scarything about that is that that kind of
evil doesn't always have the same face. Like it comes in so many different
systems, It comes in so manyplaces of power. You know. It's
an easy narrative, and it's kindof a lazy narrative to say that it's
just a straight white or white maleor whatever problem. And I agree with
that. I agree, yeah,saming that you just said, because it's

(47:12):
not black or white, it's reallyabout people in positions of power. Like
people with position of power and peopleand just each we have to treat everything
as an individual thing. How tojudge people individually, Like we can't judge
all white males. We can't dothat. We can't. And that's another
thing. We can't targets like wejust we need to be very cautious with

(47:37):
how we do things, and wewill change. But it's not about being
against everyone that looks a certain way, because then we're just becoming this we're
not really. It just becomes acycle, right, And you see,
and we've seen this throughout history,particularly in Africa, where it's like you'll
see one group of power, whetherin the Middle East as well, you'll

(47:57):
see one religious sect take power andthen exterminate their opposition. And then that
side will grow and eventually take powerand exterminate their opposition. And so it's
funny, like my cancel culture amoment two years ago, was saying something
and being an aggressive comedian and hyperbolicin my statements, was saying something of
like what you said of like,listen, the solution to racial and equality

(48:21):
in this country is not picking anew whipping post. It's not picking a
new group to hate. It's notthe solution side. Yeah, it's about
listening and like understanding and like sometimesyes, going back to the uncomfortable conversations,
they are needed because sometimes they justcome from ignorance, like you can't

(48:42):
assume, like you can't assume thatyou know. And I was having this
conversation with a white male who wasnot understanding a lot of things and I
and I was like, wow,like you know, like it's a little
bit shocking, but you know what, I was like, maybe he's having
this conversation for the first time inhis life. Yeah, and I have
exactly because we're not all we don'tknow it all and we can't assume,

(49:05):
like there has to be some humilitylike being humble about certain things and just
like, hey, I don't knowit all, and and having that conversation
and be like you know what,you you are ignorant to this, and
I'm thank you for asking and thankyou for allowing yourself to become vulnerable that
you don't know this, and andand sparking this conversation because it's needed.

(49:28):
It's needed, whether it's comfortable ornot, Like we have to come together
and really talk. And some peoplesay, you know, it's not my
responsibility to teach people. Yeah,it's it kind of is. Well,
unfortunately we have to teach other peopleand come together and try and understand each
other well. Even on it evenfrom the perspective of like your personal relationships,

(49:52):
it would be like saying, it'snot my responsibility to teach my potential
boyfriend or wife how I want tobe treated. And it's like, it's
a absolutely your responsibility because you're theonly one who can do it, And
so like literally putting up those boundariesand saying, this is what I'm willing
to accept, this is how Iwant to be treated, this is how
I want to be viewed as aperson. If you're not going to put

(50:15):
up those boundaries and tell that storyand fight that battle with people who will,
no one else is going to comein and go, this is what
your nest deserves because you're the onewho knows what that is more than anybody
else. Absolutely absolutely and I andthat's yeah, I agree with that.
I think that we all have tocome together and sit and sit on the

(50:35):
table and say, hey, whatare you like, what are you going
to allow yourself to what are youyeah, what are your standards right?
And how are you going to meeteach other in the middle ground of that,
and hopefully we are just smarter thanbefore and we can actually make a
change for the better where no raceis being targeted, right right, none

(51:00):
move forward, because then it's thenit's I see someone like you, for
example, and it's not fair,you know. And I have friends that
are white that sometimes just feel like, hey, I'm not like that,
you know. And yeah, wellin the and the tough and the tough
thing for so sorry, I don'tmean to cut you off. The tough
thing for somebody like me is likethe and I don't say this to say,

(51:21):
like, feel sorry for me,but the tough thing is like,
my skin doesn't do the life I'velived any justice because I've been somebody who's
been exposed to so much culture andso many different things that most people that
look like me have never experienced.And so my perspective comes from somebody who's
lived through stuff that a lot ofother people that I might look like have

(51:43):
never seen or experienced. And tome, like, that's what makes human
beings beautiful. As I always say, like, I think the difference between
being able to persevere and being socynical that you get wrapped up in it
and become negative. Is you stopbelieving that human beings have the ability to
surprise. And the minute you losehope in the fact that you might meet

(52:04):
somebody that absolutely surprises you is theminute you start to kind of die a
little bit inside and lose that thingthat motivates you and keeps you pushing through
the dark times in life. Ilove the idea, and part of the
reason I love this format for thispodcast is because my hope is always to
bring people on and learn something aboutthem that I wouldn't have expected or didn't

(52:24):
see coming or had no idea about. Because it allows you to be surprised
by people, and we have tocontinue to be willing and brave enough to
put ourselves in environments where we allowpeople to surprise us. And by having
like reductive conversations of straight people onlyknow this, or only gay people can

(52:44):
speak on this, or only peopleof color can speak on this, it
becomes so reductive because then there's aguy like me as who goes well as
like a white guy who was toldby his black girlfriend when he was twenty
that he can't meet her family,like I have a little bit of an
understanding of what racism feels like,like, that's a very that's a like,
that's a painful experience to go through, no matter which side of it

(53:06):
you're on. So you know,it wasn't It wasn't like I walked away
from that experience going like I'm stillwhite, so fuck you guys, Like
I didn't feel that way. Itdidn't feel like a win. We are
human at the end of the day. We are all human. And yes,
you might not deal with certain typesof racism, yeah, but we
don't know what you've dealt with.You might have been, you might be

(53:30):
an orphan, you might be someoneyeah, suffered from other type of things.
And I think it's just about empathy, Yes, empathy. We wanted
to just have empathy towards everyone andunderstanding and like really listening to each other,
because it's not as simple as justblack or white. Yeah, and

(53:50):
you can't really just it's sort oflike the old don't don't judge a book
by its cover thing. It's cliche, but we do that now, maybe
more than we ever have as asociety, where we listen, Like some
people who check all the boxes ofdiversity are still fucking boring and don't have
stories to tell. And then thereare people who look boring who might not
seem like they have a story totell, and then you listen to that

(54:12):
person you need to go, ohmy god, this is expect that you
know, Like a good example Ialways use I don't know if you watch
like Million Dollars Listing or you've everseen that show, but um not enough
yeah about it, but I feellike I know the concept of it.
But yeah, so so one ofthe guys, he's like one of the
most famous real estate agents in laHe's a young gay guy named Josh Flagg,
and he's sort of he's sort ofwell known on the show for being

(54:36):
the guy who knows like old Hollywoodarchitecture the best and so. But his
grandmother was this amazing person. Shelike fled the Holocaust, like escaped the
Holocaust, actually helped the Dutch,like free Jews from concentration camps, like
help the the Dutch army, freeJews from concentration camps. Comes to America

(54:59):
where like a few hundred bucks inher pocket, recognizes that there's an opportunity
to be an importer of polyester.She was like the woman who invented polyester
fashion basically creates this mega fashion empire, right and and builds this whole,
like this whole new life for herfamily. And how easy, how easy

(55:23):
would it be for somebody to walkpast her sitting at a cafe in Beverly
Hills before she passed away, becauseshe passed away a few years ago,
But how easily in reductive, howeasy and reductive would it be for somebody
to walk by and go just anotherold Beverly Hills white bitch, you know
what I mean. And it's like, this woman has lived this incredible story

(55:45):
that if you just think that,you'll never find out. And so that's
why I think storytelling. Yeah,I've seen a lot of white people who
have never had privilege, right likeour core, you know, and some
of us are too stupid to useit when we do have it. I

(56:07):
mean, some of us are spectrums, Like there's immigrants of that are very
rich. Yeah, rich for sure, you know. So it's just I
think it's it's yeah, at theend of the day, like I think
we can't simplify things well, andI'm sure that you know that is part
of the that's also part of whatmakes us hate getting put into those stories

(56:31):
because I'm sure like there are momentswhere you're standing or you're you could be
having a conversation with another person.You're from Puerto Rico, right, so
another person from Puerto Rico, andthey go, man, yeah, they
just treat us like shit, you'relike you're a millionaire, like you have
always been a millionaire. We arenot the same, even though two other
people might look at us and thinkour stories are the same, Like,

(56:53):
don't try to take credit from mystruggle. Really, and you know what,
I do feel lucky and blessed thatI was born in a place like
Puerto Rico where we were all Latinos, we were all Puerto Rican. Yeah,
and and so in that way,not wait, let me rephrase that,
because I would have loved to growup in a place that was a
very multi multicultural. That's something thatI do love about New York in LA

(57:16):
in the United States. But whatI'm saying about this living in an island
that we were all kind of thesame, even though Puerto Ricans coming all
colors, we were black, white, everything in between, Like we're every
like we look like, you know, everything, And I think having the

(57:37):
nationality part of like we're all PuertoRican, no matter the race. And
there's this also there's this saying herethat that they say, which means where
your grandma at? Yah, that'ssaying of like, oh, you're criticizing
me, Well, where your grandmaat? You know, like your grandma
might be black, you know.So it's that saying of like we're all

(57:57):
the same and I and that mademe, know, may not feel like
race was a big thing, becauseculture and community were a bigger part of
the interaction than raised And I thinkI think what we're finding is that so
much of the division in America comesfrom the fact that we have sort of
lost those small senses of culture andcommunity. And social media plays a big

(58:22):
part of that, right because backin the day, even when I was
growing up, like your friends werefrom school or your neighborhood and that was
the extent of your social circle.Now, I talked to people on the
other side of the country more thanI talked to the people that live right
next door to me. And soit's easy to sort of band together over
the things that make you alike andfind division over the things that make you

(58:43):
different. Because you aren't governed bya sense of community and maybe you know,
some of those things you hate tohave, like an apocalyptic view of
it. But it might take somesort of major you know, el what
we call like an extinction level eventof a play or this happened in nine
to eleven. There there needs tobe some social thing that happens that makes

(59:07):
us recreate that sense of community.And it might be the death of technology.
Ooh, maybe that might be whathas to happen. That could happen,
right, that could happen. Andalso but also interestingly enough, you
mentioned nine eleven and what caused asense of community? There was tragedy,

(59:28):
a common enemy, right, yes, that's true. There was a common
enemy born out about so why howcan we get there without having a war
or a common enemy or this likenationalistic ideal like ideology that that you know,
way, it's more about pushing hatetowards someone else. Right, Well,

(59:50):
that's the tough thing, and that'swhere a lot of people find the
nationalistic and that that that type ofcommunity by hating other people. And that's
why you see all of that's happeningright now. Now it's like, well,
you know, this is my senseof culture, and so it's about
finding the American culture in the goodthings of hey community and not looking alike
and and everything in between. Ithink it's very complex, but I hope

(01:00:15):
that we find common aground and wecan see you know, the Persian,
our Persian neighbor and our Chinese neighbor. And we are very lucky in La.
Not every place in the United Statesis like that, that we can
actually find a community in that too, and in the differences, because something

(01:00:35):
that Little America did show was that, yeah, the sense of community,
a sense of community. And likeall of these stories, we are pretty
similar bottom line, like our hearts. At the end of the day,
we want the same things. Wewant to be happy, we want we
are dreamers, we are you know, we want purpose. Everyone wants some
sort They want to feel like theyserve a purpose in society, whether that

(01:00:59):
be big or small. You know, depending on who you are. Yeah,
your sense of purpose might not needto be that grandiose. Like some
people find their purpose in, youknow, running a small business, or
find their purpose in being a nurseor a doctor. And you know,
I I've always said this, I'menvious of those people. I wish that
I was somebody who could find purposein something small and easy to do,

(01:01:21):
and not saying that those things aren'timportant. But no, it's not yeah,
that's not no, definitely not easy, but like even, like here's
a good one that's not divisive.A chef. I have friends, tons
of friends that are chefs, andthat is their purpose and they love it
and they live for it, andthey work at a restaurant and they make
food and there's like they have abeer at the end of the night and

(01:01:45):
like life is good. And I'mlike, fuck, I wish that my
finding purpose was that simple for me. I wish there was a submissive woman
who can, right, Yeah,and like good for all kinds of women
who can who finds that. Ijust don't find purposes, right, that's

(01:02:05):
not even I just wish I couldhave a simpler life. But no,
I just want to have big dreamsand you know, and be rejected two
hundreds a year. You know,well, you know, one of the
things I always love to talk about, obviously, with the name of the
podcast being the Darkest Hour is thedark side of things. And that's what
I thought would be interesting to getinto with you about because what's what's what

(01:02:27):
I said earlier about this being theperfect timing is that you're entering a stage
of your career where people are goingto be less like, oh, I'm
sure it was like like talk aboutall the rejection, talk about all the
hard things, like you'll start bookingthings that will sort of make people believe
that there never was hardship or neverwas two hundred plus rejections. I mean

(01:02:49):
I've I've never been I've never actedto that degree where I've had that many
rejections. Like acting is probably likethe fourth or fifth thing down the line
of what I've done or what I'lldo. I'm more into stand up and
writing and producing and that type ofthat type of stuff. But um,
but I've had a lot of nose. But being somebody who's constantly submitting for

(01:03:10):
things and constantly being told no,it's like, how do you fight through
that? I mean what kind oflike what gets you through to that point?
Is it a series of little thingsof like Okay, I got little
America and that got me going fora while, and then I'd lose sneaker
heads and That'll carry me for alittle bit. And then I mean,
how do you I guess talk alittle bit about maybe when it was the

(01:03:30):
darkest for you in that process andhow you got through it. I think,
well, um, good question,because I think that like it's all
been good, no dark types,No, No, I think it all
starts from also before even even beforethat. I think in growing up in

(01:03:52):
an island, not many people cansurvive from becoming actors. That's just like
something that it's just not seen asa career. Yeah, you guys have
like Jo and that's it, right, Jlo And she's well, we have
a lot of actually a lot ofgood people, but in talented people.
But for example, Jlo is fromthe Bronx, right, so so you

(01:04:15):
know she's not from Yeah, shewasn't born and raised in exactly. So
it's really hard to see people inthe island or yeah, just having like
a good income. Yeah, andso that was kind of like an impossible
dream for a lot of people,and a lot of people kept telling me
when I was growing out, Iwas like, every time people would ask
me what I wanted to do,I was like, I want to be

(01:04:36):
an actress in Hollywood. And everytime I would say I want to be,
I'm gonna be. I'm gonna bean actress in Hollywood, and a
lot of people laughed and would saythings like well, okay, coolhaha,
yeah, but like you should youneed like another career, like okay,
yeah, but like are you youshould study law? You should do this,
you should do that. Yeah.So I think that's when it started,

(01:04:57):
kind of like how I had tohave a lot of like willpower.
Yeah. And so then later whenI moved to La I think it was
two years in because you know,English is not my first language, so
having to learn to really master anotherlanguage and learn all these lines, and

(01:05:21):
you know, sometimes I got theauditions like a day before, so having
to memorize all of this was reallyhard. Especially with English as a second
language, is because people don't realize, like the tough thing about unless you
sort of immersively learn a language twolanguages at the same time, you're always
sort of translating in your head asyou're reading and processing, and so it's

(01:05:44):
it slows everything downtimes. Sometimes eveneven now, like whenever someone changes a
line for me on set, Ihave to like, okay, give me
a second because I have to processit first. Yeah, you know,
And and I don't think that peoplewill understand the struggle of that. But
yeah, in the beginning, itwas kind of like it was really rejection
after rejection is like no, no, no, no no. And I

(01:06:06):
think what started changing it for mewas Okay, well I'm going to be
a producer then, or I'm goingto create content for myself then yeah,
because you're not giving it to me. So then okay, then I'm going
to have the power over my careerand I'm going to change and I'm going

(01:06:27):
to find my work and I'm goingto create content for myself. So that's
when I started kind of like shiftingthe mindset of like I think actors,
unfortunately, we are one of thosepeople. We have the unfortunate thing about
our careers that we depend on otherpeople telling us yes the time. Yeah.
So I think shifting a little bitof that mindset and saying and becoming

(01:06:51):
more of a creative and saying,well, okay, I'm not going to
allow another person saying no to mebut going back to the dark place just
like just I think the biggest thingfor me was I was gonna say,
what neighborhood did you move into whenyou first moved to La. I actually
went to Costa La. Oh Okay, Yeah, so I went to Costa

(01:07:13):
La and I was on the dormsliving there, so I did have college
on the side to kind of likenot like distract me from the rejection,
right, sure, you know,um, but it was really tough.
And I remember, like, like, especially when I was younger, it
was really really tough. And Iremember I had a boyfriend back then and
he was like he would tell me, it's like, well, Junas,
like you know, like to becomea master, you're gonna have to like

(01:07:35):
do it like over ten thousand hours, right, so, like you haven't
done it enough. And I'm like, I've been doing this since I was
eight years old. What do youmean you just have to keep going?
Yeah, because it just eventually thingsget easier and and it's all about the
mind. So for me, itwas after every rejection, it was about

(01:07:58):
becoming stronger, like my mind,like my mind. I had to really
get to a place where I wasokay with with everything around me, you
know, and and being okay withbeing rejected and then um, that's sort
of what they call that's sort ofwhat they call an athletics, like the
champion mindset of saying like there's it'snot win or lose, it's win or

(01:08:18):
learn. And when I don't getthe result, I want what do I
learn and how do I push forwardwith that? New infromotion are athletes.
I'm gonna tell people that while I'meating my third slice of pizza, I'm
an athlete, no journess. Sowe have to have the mindset of an
athlete because it is about the marathon. Yeah, it is about It's not

(01:08:44):
about that one project, it isnot about that one job. So what
I think that was really what gotme later understanding that it was about the
process. And that's why I starteddoing the journey and like hashtag the journey
because I think that people are followingthe journey, people are seeing me go
through it, you know, gothrough the yes and the excitement of it

(01:09:06):
all, but also going through thenose. Well, nobody really shares the
nose. I think that would bea very interesting thing to see. Like
you see all these great documentaries andstuff that are coming out now, it's
like, you know, show methe nose, Like show people what it's
like to go through the nose andhow different people deal with it, because
you know, that is such abig part of of earning it, Like

(01:09:27):
and This is the thing that Ithink some people have a hard time understanding,
is like everyone who's gotten something hashas earned it. And I had
a real problem with this. Iwas just in this personal experience. When
I got my show, I feltlike I didn't earn it. I really
felt like like there there have tobe people that have worked harder, there
have to be people that you know, like that deserve it, more like

(01:09:48):
I just don't feel like I've earnedthis. And my first the producer and
a faker else like, well,you, first of all, you never
have to stop earning it. Soif you feel that way, bring that
to set every day and put thatfeeling into the work, and the work
will be better. And you know, He's like, I could sit here

(01:10:09):
and you could tell me your lifestory, and I'll give you the thirty
things that you did that made youearn this that you don't see or recognize
because you're too close to it.And so I think there's two productive things
you could do with that. Isone except try to explore why you don't
feel like you deserve something you've earnedit when you do get it. And
two, if you do feel thatway, try to invest it in the

(01:10:32):
fact that Okay, maybe I gotthis opportunity that a million other people deserved
more than me, But what amI going to do with it? And
will I make the most of it? And I think that's like that is
a more productive result than feeling guilty. And by the end of the run
of the show, we did threeseasons and twenty four episodes, I felt
like, boy did I earn that? Like whether I felt like I earned

(01:10:56):
it when I got the opportunity,when it was done, I knew I
gave a hundred I did more thanever I was ever asked to, and
I did everything I could to tryto make it continue to be successful,
continue to go. I was ateam player when when I needed to be.
I stood up for myself when Ineeded to, Like, I wouldn't
change anything about the way that wholething happened, even though it ended.

(01:11:20):
And you know that now the nextthing whatever, that is a waste.
Yeah, and so so a beautifulthing too to realize. And that's why
I think I'm also very grateful aboutthe present because I'm always telling I'm very
philosophical and like I'm very like Ialways tell people, I'm like, hey,
you have to appreciate everything. Youhave to appreciate the present because the

(01:11:42):
second I'm boom, it's the past. Yeah, well, it goes by
so quickly and you have to realizeby so quickly, and you and and
and everything is temporary and you justhave to appreciate it in the moment.
And I felt that way with sneakerHeads. When I got sneaker Heads,
I was like I had that imposterimposter syndrome where yeah, that's just that's
exactly what I felt that and I'mlike, oh, I don't deserve it.

(01:12:02):
I don't deserve it, Like Iwas so nervous, and after the
fact now seeing everything, I'm like, I did that and I don't think
and I don't think. You know, it's interesting because like a lot of
times when we watch movies will belike, oh, who else could have
played that part? And when youwatch Nori, that thought doesn't even come

(01:12:25):
in your head. You don't eventhink like, oh, what other actress
could play that part? You justthink like, no, that's her,
that's the character, that's Nori,Like that's that thought never came into my
mind of like who else would youcast for this? Because it's like it
didn't even feel like you were acting. It felt like like that's a real
person, Like anybody who lives inLA is like, that's a real chick
that lives in LA. That islike got this hustle game, aneker head.

(01:12:50):
Like they've been asking me about sneakers, They've been asking me to find
them sneakers, Like I'm like,I'm not Nori, Like, yeah,
you know, I don't live shoes. I'm sorry, right, yeah,
But that's but that's how authentic.And I think it kind of works because
you know, you're still at thatthat stage in your career where you're not

(01:13:10):
so well known that it pulls peopleout of the character. So I think
it served the character to where peopleare like, is that girl like a
real Like is she like a realperson who runs the sault in La?
That? Right mentioned something like Ithink that that's there's some beauty in not
being well known, like being likean a lister or something or like someone
that's well known, because people buymore into it, right, Um,

(01:13:32):
once you get more recognized, it'slike, oh, I'm gonna go watch
Keanu Reeves you know or j Loyou know? Right? So it it
it there's there's something to that butbut yeah, I'm Nori. Was Nori
was a really fun character to playto play, and uh, yeah,
it's crazy what people like you.You never know what to expect and you
don't know when you're doing it.You don't like even when I was doing

(01:13:55):
it, because I got that parttwo days before we started shooting, I
was like, am I even doingLike it was that process of like what
am I doing with this character?Am I playing it? Like, you
know, finding the balance about it? Yeah? Like am I playing her?
Yeah? Am I playing her?Ratchet? Am I playing her?
Yeah? Am I playing her?Calculated? Am I playing her? Which

(01:14:16):
is actually what I thought was reallycool about the character is that she comes
off as somebody who is dictating culture, not participating in it. Does that
make sense? Like she seems likesomebody who is determining this world of what
things are valued at versus playing toit, if that makes sense. And
so I thought she had a verysort of like boss vibe to her.

(01:14:39):
And I hate people using buzzwords likeyes boss, but but she you very
much did execute that that role thatway where it was like, no,
she's the one running all of this, And then to see you kind of
get brought into the gang is coolbecause in a way it seems like,
oh, I didn't I didn't thinkthat they would be able to get somebody

(01:15:00):
like that interested, But it showsthat, you know, even the most
seasoned and successful hustler has ambitions ofdoing something bigger and wants to get to
that next level and wants to findlike, Okay, how do I level
up to the next big thing?Right? Which was which was cool?
And I think the show was reallygood. It was like the thing I

(01:15:20):
love about shows like Sneakerheads is likeit is the right amount of funny,
the right amount of heartfelt, theright amount of story. It's like this
perfect blend of it's good at alot of things. It's not like it's
not only awesome at one part ofa show. It just sort of does
everything well. The casting is good, the performances are good, the writing

(01:15:42):
is funny, like and it justkind of all works. And those are
the kind of shows. Like youhate to say this because a lot of
times it sounds like, um,like it's not a compliment, but it's
like that's a show that could runfor twenty seasons, do you know what
I mean? Like, and peopleused to say that about people say that
about like old sitcoms and like thatran forever and it was garbage. But
it's like, no, it ranforever because it worked on a lot of

(01:16:03):
levels exactly. I keep you know. When I watched it, at first,
I was like, ah, becauseI always I'm very critical about my
way. Yeah, and you andwe all see the things in ourselves that
we hate, like so we're like, oh, I did I did this.
I was like a hard people arereally people are going to understand this,
like you know. And then eventuallyI watched it again with my grandparents
and I was like, oh mygod, this could be like The Office

(01:16:26):
yea, or like you know,something where it's like it's something that you
watch and watch and watch and youcan always write more. You can always
find a new adventure. You canalways you know, it can become something
that that can keep going. Andgirls and that collector culture, yeah,
that collector culture is so deep,like it's not your shoes, it's so
many things. And so I justwant to stop you really quick. I

(01:16:48):
just want to make sure because Ihave like one percent and I don't want
it to die. Okay, letme see if I can find a charger
really quick. Yeah, you're good. I'm like, oh no, and
I got to bring my charger withme. Let me see if I can
finn charge it. Look, you'regoing dark. Let me see if I
can find out. Really right,we're breaking the fourth wall. People are

(01:17:08):
seeing our surroundings. We need todo this. I um, I'm like,
wait, where's my charger? Giveme one second? Hey, guys,
do you have a charger really quick? No? Oh my god,
we forgot the charger. Okay,Well we might have to end it here
or I can get connected again inmy iPad. Either way, it's fun.

(01:17:31):
Either way, it is good.It's been great so far. I
was not expecting my whole phone likedecided to the battery. So it's a
good It's always a good thing whenyou burn up the phone battery on a
podcast. Is there anything that youwant to plug before we get out of
here? Yeah, just keep watchingSneakerheads. It's been a it's been a

(01:17:54):
true pleasure talking to you, Josh. I feel like I don't want this
to end at all, talking toyou. Well, the beauty of these
things is that we can always dothem again. Yeah, let's do it
again, because I think that there'sso much that we can still talk about.
But right now people can just goto Sneakerheads on Netflix, Little America
on Apple TV, Hukoi The Boogeymanon Hulu, Sci Fi, NBC dot

(01:18:15):
Com, and hopefully raise your hand. It's gonna be on my social media.
So if you can say, mysocial media is add your next port
shadow on Instagram and you'll be posting. You know, we'll be updated about
my work there. Okay, that'scool. Well we'll make sure everybody follows
along. Yeah, closing my TItoo scared to look down, I climb

(01:19:05):
or hand over hand, putting distancebetween I and I in the road.
I get you the time to bebetter little time and live far. I

(01:19:29):
don't know. They can't be betterlittle one time usually far. Who you
should ask somebody because I've got nothingto lose. Tonight I misplaced my life
night she started my friends? Whoaway tonight? I don't say the right
things. I don't look the rightway. That's just not mean. I

(01:19:56):
listen to my music too, don'tand watch too much. Um