#16 - Human Traffic Jam w/Eliza Bleu

On this episode of the #DarkestHour podcast, Josh is joined by survivor of human trafficking Eliza Bleu. Eliza does her best to help shed misconceptions about human trafficking; like the myth that they all start with an abduction. Eliza tells us a bit about her activist work, and what lies ahead for her.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hey, Darkest Hour listeners, ithas been a long time. I think
about a month since my last DarkestHour episode has aired, and a lot
has happened in the last month.You might be wondering where have the episodes
been? Is it the holidays?Did you succumb to COVID nineteen? What
happened? It's none of that.It's I've had a lot going on.

(00:21):
If you don't follow me on socialmedia or you've been in a hole lately,
you do not know that. Inthe last couple weeks, I've launched
a new show and a new communityon locals dot com. If you don't
know what locals is. Locals issort of like Patreon, but it was
created by Dave Ruben and some otherfolks concerned about deep platforming, and so

(00:46):
they took it upon themselves to createsort of a free speech protected platform like
a Patreon, a paywalled community thatthey host, and I am one of
their newest content creators. So youcan find me over there at Josh Danny
dot locals dot com. And ifyou are already checking out stuff over there,

(01:07):
thank you. Support over there onlycost five bucks a month and you
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this show, as you know,I try to keep us focused on dark

(01:29):
stories, personal stuff that people haveeither turned into art or turned into something
positive. And a lot of times, just by nature of my you know,
the friendships I have or what I'mknown for, what's going on in
the world, I'll have people onand they'll just start talking about everything,
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and in an effort to kind ofcompartmentalize some of these things, all of

(01:53):
those kinds of podcasts and stuff willbe going over to The wake Up Call.
So The wake Up Call on Localsis primarily current events. So we're
talking about stuff that's going on inthe world. We're making fun of news
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We're just making fun of ourselves.So that's a fun hour long show comes
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(02:15):
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(02:38):
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(03:02):
excited to see what it becomes.Obviously, I have a lot of ideas
for the stuff I want to puton there, but I'm really excited to
see what it turns into. I'vealready got I've already got a meme guy
in there who's posting a lot ofreally funny memes, and you know,
I want to get some political kindof Q and A is going for people
to kind of really get my pulseon how people feel about a lot of

(03:22):
the stuff that's going on in ourpolitical world today. But all of that
stuff will live on locals And ifyou're not interested in any of that,
that's great. If you like TheDarkest Hour for what it is, that's
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(03:43):
on there and you like the show, go in, leave us a comment,
rate, subscribe, and tell peopleabout it. This episode in particular
that I really like, we haveEliza Blue. If you don't know Eliza
story, she's a survivor of humantrafficking and now an advocate it and somebody
who is you know, working nightand day tirelessly to help pull women out

(04:06):
of, you know, some ofthese horrible sort of sex work against their
will scenarios, and we talk alot about in this episode. We talk
a lot about sort of the differencesbetween consensual adult sex work and what you
find is human trafficking. And there'salso some really great insight into what actually

(04:28):
is human trafficking, because I thinka lot of people like myself, think
of it as abduction and kidnapping,and there's so many other elements to human
trafficking and quite frankly, how itaffects almost every economic corner of the world.
So really great work she's doing.And you know, this is the
kind of stuff that I want tocontinue to put into the Darkest Hour,
and I'm really excited about some upcomingepisodes that we have for this. So

(04:51):
thank you guys for listening and enjoythis episode with Eliza Blue. Hello Darkness,
smile friend. I've come to talkwith you again because a vision softly

(05:12):
creeping left, it seems while Iwas sleeping, and the vision that was
planted in my brain stillings. There'stwo ways to see things like in the
world. One is to try tofind a way to laugh at it,
and the other is to just livea miserable existence where you're unhappy about everything.

(05:36):
What the fuck is that humially adoptedthe duck I was wanting it.
That seems really dark Now that wasnot dark? You misunderstanding me, Bro,
This is gonna get dark for people. No God, please, no.
Do you think that anybody that doesenjoy dark comedy that it's indicative of

(05:57):
a deeper evil? Yeah? Doyou understand? Eliza Blue? How are
you hi, Josh? I'm great. How are you. I'm doing all
right, I'm pretty, I'm nice. I'm I feel like I'm in a
whorehouse now. I just realized it'sprobably not a good lighting aesthetic that I

(06:20):
picked. Or we're doing an episodeon human trafficking. I'm like, I
look like amsterdamn That's okay, Josh, And take all kind that's perfect.
What's that I didn't take some kinds? Yeah? Yeah, well I don't.
I don't necessarily know that I wouldfetch a lot on the open market.
I can tell you that. Um, I'm so glad we're getting to

(06:43):
do this. That's not what they'resaying on Instagram. That's not what they're
saying on Instagram. Did you comethrough Instagram everywhere? Josh? Did you
see some of that? Yeah,it's it's funny, it's it's it doesn't
take you know, it doesn't takea lot to make your day. But
I can tell you, and that'swhat I never understood about homophobia, You
know what I mean? Like I'mnot a gay guy, but I could

(07:04):
tell you gay men make my daymore than straight women ever have. That
is one hundred percent true. Ikind of found the same way. Actually
shout out to the games. Welove you. Yeah, I always,
I always should say man if Iif I would have known that was the
case back in the day, Iwould have taken all my dates to gay
bars so that they would have actedright. You know, listen, that

(07:27):
is like the people don't understand this, Like because I'm a very I'm a
very straight woman. Loved the LGBTQplus community, and I absolutely love going
to gay bars like drag shows andanything like that. I absolutely love it.
And if a man took me ona date to a gay bar,
I would absolutely love it. Justmusic, the music's great, I mean,
we're okay, Like in a perfectworld pre COVID nineteen, I would

(07:50):
absolutely love it. And it hasto happened a few times. Actually that's
good. Yeah. I just thinkit would be nice for me for a
change, to be able to havesomeone send a drink over and then I
have to go tell them I saidno, thank you, I'm with someone.
I just think it would be nicefor me to get to do that
for once, you know what Imean. And then you know, he's

(08:11):
eyeing me from across the room andI just have to you know. Yeah.
And then she's like, does thishappen a lot? And I go,
yeah, everywhere I go, everyday, every day, all the
time. That's what it's like.Be great to live in that fantasy world
for a day. But yeah,speaking of unwanted attention, now that's a
terrible segue. Yeah, I'm firstof all, I'm so glad that you're

(08:33):
you're on and you're willing to dothis. And the thing I love about
The Darkest Hour, you know,this podcast, generally the format is kind
of crazy because generally we have comedianson and the sort of the method of
the podcast is for people to kindof talk about how they go through,
you know, tough experiences in life, tragedy, personal tragedies or traumas,

(08:54):
and how they turn those things intocomedy. And you're not a comedian,
but you've experienced pretty crazy stuff thatI think you're now turning into, you
know, very good work. SoI mean, where do we begin with
telling your story? I'm sure there'ssome people out there that are watching that,
you know, know you, andthen I'm sure there are people out
there who are like, who isEliza Blue? Yeah? Well, first

(09:15):
and foremost, thank you so muchfor having me, Josh, I'm sorber
of human trafficking. I'm also anadvocate for those affected by human trafficking.
I was groomed to age fifteen andI was sex trafficked at age seventeen in
Los Angeles, California, and Iwas sold for five hund dollars. Kind
of what we're known for, right, Um, you know, I don't
I don't like to generalize. Idon't know. I meant, I meant

(09:39):
traffic in general. Eliza, LosAngeles famous for its traffic, and apparently
some of that is also human.Yeah, it's unfortunate. You know,
humans are the new oil and drugsand illicit guns and black market guns.
Humans you can use for labor orsex multiple times, and drugs and Eliza
and black market oil you can onlyuse once. So yeah, it's something

(10:01):
I've read in your article. There'sa very good story up if people want
to see that on ev It's linkedon your Twitter and I'm sure people can
go find it there. But um, I remember that line really stuck with
me. You said that that's thething that makes it so sort of not
just heartbreaking, but so lucrative,is that humans are the only thing that
can really be trafficked over and overand over again, unlike like limited resources

(10:24):
or guns or whatever. Well,guns you can use multiple times like humans,
So, um, you know,I always remind felt so when we're
talking about human trafficking, we're talkingabout force product origin for the sale of
labor or sex, and um,you know, you can use a human
countless time for those for those purposes. So that's where we see some really
heartbreaking data and statistics. And I'mgrateful that you read that article. That

(10:48):
article has done really well, andI'm really excited about it. It was
the first thing I've ever written besidesmy locals blocks and uh, and it
was kind of awesome to write thatarticle because it was like I got to
say everything that I want to sayin interviews and it's kind of like I
put it all out there. SoI'm grateful that so many folks have had

(11:09):
an opportunity to read it. Whatdo you think is the biggest misconception that
people have when they hear the wordshuman trafficking, kidnapping, kidnapping is definitely
the most the highest misconception. Also, I think folks don't realize some when
we're talking about human trafficking, we'llbe talking about the sale of black market

(11:30):
human organs, illegal adoption, insome cases, child marriage. So the
list goes on and on. Italso includes a digital sex trafficking, sextortion,
and all those other fun things,child sexual abuse material. You know,
we get really dicey. It's sucha broad term. So I always

(11:52):
just try to give folks the actualtruth of what's going on, the actual
dating statistics. But I think byfar, kidnapping is probably the biggest rumor
Fortunately in the United States, that'snot what the data and statistics show us.
They show us that in the ninetiethpercentile, we're seeing folks that know

(12:13):
their traffickers and have a pre existingrelationship. I would be a perfect example
of that. My traffickers grew mefor two years before I was actually sex
traffick, so that's a perfect example. We see a lot of grooming online
with children, so you know,a lot of times folks know their abusers

(12:33):
beforehand, so kidnapping is very rare. Well, and I remember reading in
you know, in that story,you said yours it started with like a
bogus modeling contract. And these tome are like the nightmare stories of you
know, someone moves to Los Angelestrying to pursue a career and entertainment and
modeling. And you know, Idon't know all the details of your story,

(12:54):
but it sounds like it kind ofstarts in a place that I feel
like it's becoming all two from me. You're a story in Los Angeles.
Well, I always say a lotof times that human trafficking stecks with the
trafficker abuser selling the dream, andthat could be a dream of living in
a country like America and paying someoneto traffic you by smuggling you into the

(13:16):
United States and it ends up turningout to be a human trafficking situation for
your traffic to work in a massageparlor, an illegal brothel, a nail
shop. I mean, the listgoes on and on. The Polari's Project,
the National Human Trafficking Hotline has alist of twenty five different typologies where
we see human trafficking in all sortsof ways, including pornography and the recreational.

(13:39):
You know, you can have somebodydoing law care that's being human traffic.
So I think it's always important tonote that it doesn't necessarily have to
be sex trafficking. Yeah, andthat's another thing too, is I think
generally when we think of it,we think, you know, the first
thing I think is abduction, andthen I think, you know, people
being sold into sex slavery, Andit's kind of one of those things where

(14:01):
you think, you know what thatlooks like, like it's sort of like
a take in thing you're thinking oflike a Liam Neison movie, and you're
not even thinking that a lot ofthe stuff that you might participate in in
a day to day basis could involvehuman trafficking in one way or another that
you're sort of blind to. Onehundred percent joshing right now, I'm streaming

(14:22):
live on an Apple iPhone. Myphone was made with slave labor. Let's
call it what it is. Youknow, if I were Nike shoes today
enough those shoes are made with slavelabor. It's really a problem. And
I wish that in the United Stateswe could put our foot down and say
absolutely no child labor. I absolutelyno child slave labor making our products and

(14:45):
food, and absolutely no slave labor. I would be willing to pay more
in the United States of America formy products if I could guarantee that there
was no slavery involved. I think, you know, I agree with I
agree with you, I would bewilling to as well. I think the
sad thing is, I don't Idon't know how many Americans actually would follow
through with that. I think,you know, I think a lot of

(15:05):
people talk about all the time,like, well, you know these we
should have the iPhone made in America. Why isn't it made an American It's
like, well, it's not madein America because you won't pay twenty five
hundred dollars for it, which iswhat it would cost. So, you
know, I think that's kind ofthe unfortunate reality is that it is something
that I think is going to haveto be mandated because until it is,

(15:26):
it's just far too profitable for companiesto continue to do what they're allowed to
do. What I think is reallycrazy and hypocritical is a lot of the
CEOs of these large companies will havelike a Black Lives Matter charity, or
they'll have some sort of social justicecharity to try to, you know,
help income inequality, and they're yetthere's still their primary you know product is

(15:50):
still being produced in inhumane ways overseas. It's just so hypocritical. Well,
we could get strained into it.Any big tech is one of is the
biggest I mean, the child sexualabuse and human trafficking that they're allowing on
big tech while they virtue signal inour face relentlessly about all these issues and

(16:10):
vulnerable populations so that they care about. Meanwhile, data and statistics show us
that the vulnerable populations that they claimto care about are at a higher risk
for being trafficked. We know thisblack girls. There was a study put
out by the Congressional Black Caucus thisyear in collaboration with Rights for Girls that
explain that black girls are traffic ata higher rate. So if you truly
think that black lives matter, thisis an issue that you should care about.

(16:32):
Yeah. Well, and I thinka lot of times these causes they
get they often get you know,sort of misdirected, right, and so
we end up applying all of themoney and the resources to something that's really
not necessarily at the core of theproblem. And I think that's that's what
I really that's why I'm often sortof just put off by a lot of

(16:55):
this sort of blanket activism because there'snot really a lot of specific boots on
the ground action behind those things.Pornography, it was a big one that
was surprising to me because my own, I guess, my assumption about what
you hear about pornography is that howregulated the industry is. And then when
I found out and I don't rememberwhere I learned this, but obviously you
know, Pornhub was the first tokind of be forced to really take action

(17:19):
against this. What percentage of thecontent on their site actually involved you know,
someone in a traffic scenario or youknow that was even underage that we
had no idea about. It wasbaffling to me to hear what percentage of
their it was something like sixty percentof their content was flagged for potentially being

(17:44):
you know, involving illegal activity surroundinghuman trafficking. I was like, man,
that is insane. I mean,you could be somebody who thinks,
you know, you're just watching regularporn, which I'm definitely in favor of,
like I think people should be allowedto watch porn, but it's horrifying
to think that even as you know, as legitimate as some of it is
presented, that there's still so muchof a deep penetrating probably bad adjectives to

(18:11):
use, but purveyance of just thisfucked up subculture and you know, just
this this horrible underworld behind it thatstill exists. And so I mean,
and you, I know, workwith a lot of women that are either
still in these scenarios, are comingout of it. I mean, what
has there been any learnings that you'vehad in dealing with these women that have

(18:34):
even been surprising to you to seesort of how pervasive it is through all
these different parts of our society.The truth is, Josh, nothing surprises
me anymore. I've heardn't seen itall. But perfect example is I was
helping to write a report not thatlong ago. It actually has to do
with the porn house situation. It'scalled Girls Do Porn where they were taking

(18:56):
actual sexual assault, non consensual humantrafficking videos and then using deep faked technology
to create more sexual assault videos ofthe initial victim survivor. So nothing surprises
me anymore. I expect the unexpected, and as a movement, we must

(19:17):
anticipate this is the criminal in ourprize, and we must stay a step
ahead at all times. We muststay ahead of human traffickers, which is
really difficult because they're very organized andcoordinated and is they night meere. They
have a lot of money behind it, Josh, it's a hot mess.
Do you feel like working with somethingand I'm a strong believer in this.

(19:38):
I feel like the closer people haveto work in proximity to, like real
evil or really fucked up situations,generally, the stronger sense of humor you
have to have on the other sideto kind of keep yourself balanced. I
mean, do you feel like it'schanged, maybe your sense of humor,
just your overall perspective on the worldgetting this close to something that's so horrifying,

(20:03):
you know what rash if. Peopleprobably don't see it, but I
laugh of the time, especially survivors, So people don't know, like I
think that they see this Hollywood goingback to that Liam Neeson, you know
a movie or whatever. You know, people see this Hollywood version of victims
and survivors with the ropes and chainsaround their wrists and duct tape on their

(20:26):
mouth. Let me tell you,we are having a blast most of the
time. Like you, We areusually roaring, literally roaring. I don't
know what it is. There issomething about overcoming and at the end of
the day, you know, MichaelMalice the breach out articulating. This humor
is free, so when you don'thave anything, you can laugh, right,

(20:48):
And so I just find humor inthe smallest things. I try not
to, you know, I don'tknow, maybe not so much dirty humor,
but definitely dark humor. And Ican also laugh at myself. I
mean, I'm wearing a tr rightnow for no reason. I saw it
at Walmart, I grabbed it.You know. Um, It's just like

(21:10):
there's this jovial nous where you've survivedpretty much the worst, or at least
what you think is the worst.You haven't come true evil, and so
once you survived that, it's kindof like the world is your oyster and
almost it's very hard. And nowI'm not saying that survivors don't deal with
trauma, and there's a time ofplace for trauma, but we also cracked

(21:32):
jokes all day every day. It'swild, it's wild, it's fine.
Yeah, And I think everybody hasdifferent triggers. I remember a few years
back, I got into an onlinedebate on Twitter with the creator of SVU,
a Law and Order SVU, adude named Warren Late, and wait,
back up everything, back up everything? How did you get back everything?

(21:52):
Going to a debate or it wasn'treally a debate, but what it
was was, I I had someof you had resurfaced old jokes of mind.
So back when my Twitter was veryin its infancy, in like twenty
ten, I had like four hundredfollowers, and most of them were other
comics, and so we would getinto these threads with each other, almost
like a message board of like what'sthe worst, Like give me your worst

(22:15):
joke out of your notebook, andwe would all list our worst jokes.
And we had one that was like, what are the worst rape jokes you've
ever heard or that you've written orwhatever. And so we had this thread
of horrible rape jokes and then thathad gotten resurface somehow, and a bunch
of people came after to cancel meover it, and Warren Late, who
was the creator of Law and OrderSVU, came after me and said,

(22:37):
you know, something should never bejoked about, and I said, well,
you know, also, there aresome things that you shouldn't film entire
reenactment pornos series around either I waslike, you know, you can interpret
my work how you want. I'llinterpret your work how I want. I
mean, it's easy for us tosay that what you do is twice as
triggering as any comedian telling a joke, and so you know, it created

(22:57):
this sort of spurious bait between peoplewho agreed with me and people who agreed
with him. And you know,ultimately, I think free speech, you
know, in art, is anecessary thing, and people should be able
to tell their stories or their jokesor whatever to illustrate whatever it is that
is important to them or that theywant to express. But when we start
getting into this slippery slope of what'striggering and what's not, it's like you

(23:18):
can't try to monitor that because itcould be it could be something completely unrelated
to your experience that could trigger thattrauma, or it could be something that's
you know, there could also bea very graphic depiction that is so much
like what you went through that doesn'thave a triggering effect. So it's a
really really difficult thing I find asa creator to try to navigate. I

(23:40):
think the best thing you can dois be as educated about what you're joking
about or creating art about and thentry to make sure that what you're doing
is very true to the experience ormaybe exposing something that people don't really know.
And so what I love about thisshow is it gives me the opportunity
to talk to other people about darkshit that they've gone through, and it

(24:02):
always lends perspective to me as acomedian to say, Okay, here's something
I didn't know about, maybe traffickingor sex work that would lend some insight
to any material I might write aboutit. You know, well, I
definitely believe in free speech, andI definitely feel like comedy. You know,
I listen, I run into jokessometimes in the little communities and you

(24:25):
know, online just circles that Irun in. Sometimes I've seen people make
jokes that I'm like, it's socringe to me, but like, who
cares, right, I just keepscrolling. Some people get really really upset
about it. You know. I'deven been accused today some of my interviews
about laughing too much or smiling toomuch. Like so at the end of

(24:45):
the day, you're never gonna makeeverybody happy, and to me, human
trafficking isn't funny. But if therewas a joke that I thought was good,
even about human trafficking, I probablywould still laugh. I feel like
art should be free. I feellike arts should be completely free speech,
and I feel like art should befree. A lot of times people dog

(25:06):
on me because actually I had agreat conversation with Chrissy more about this.
You know, she we were talkingabout what were we talking about. We
were talking about Cardi b and Whop, and you know, she was talking
about how maybe it was a littlebit too dirty, and I was like,
well, Cardi Ba's telling the poetryof the streets. And I was

(25:26):
like, and convenience can be alittle bit listen, but that's art though,
Right. You have to have thosefolks that are willing to put themselves
out there and to say something thatmay or may not be true. So
I've seen some jokes that are alittle cringe, but whatever, if it's
not my cup of tea, Ikeep a pushing and I scroll past.

(25:47):
That's what I think. I thinkthe interesting thing about comedy itself is that
it does give you the opportunity tofeed an audience something that didn't come for
right. So, like, let'ssay you write a book and they come
to your book signing, they kindof know what they're getting. When somebody
goes to a comedy show and it'sgot a bunch of different performers, you
really never know what you're getting.And so I feel like comedy is one

(26:07):
of the last places where you caninject some unexpected information into an audience because
you have so many different performers withso many different perspectives, so many different
life stories, and ways they writeand shape material that inevitably you know something's
going to offend you or push yourbuttons or teach you something you didn't want

(26:30):
to hear. But that's kind ofI feel like that's kind of how you
spread the unfun messages, right.I mean, somebody might have no interest
in solving human trafficking, for instance, and if they go to a comedy
show and there's a performer who wasa survivor who makes a really funny bit
about it, but also drops abit of information that person didn't know it

(26:51):
might land on their lap in away that makes them go, wow,
I didn't even realize that the massageparlor I'm going to three times a week,
you know, those might be thereagainst their will or that it might
be in there might be some layersto that that I haven't even stopped to
examine. And so I'm not reallya massage guy. I'm too tickle ish.
Thankfully, that's not something that that'snot something that I've ever had to

(27:12):
worry about. Well I haven't.I haven't gotten a massage and wow myself,
I've never forgotten one in an illicitmassage parlor. Um. But you
know, are there any non illicitmassage parlors? I mean to me,
if it's neck McDonald's in a stripmall, that's definitely not an A list
location. I'm going to go outand say, are legitimate massage parlors?

(27:33):
And there are legitimate massus you know, massage m V would be a perfect
example of I guess, um quick, you walk in and you get a
massage and it's done, you know, above board, but you know,
they're a way you can know asa consumer, like, is there a
way that a consumer can know ifthey go into a place that it's you
know, that it's legit or thatit's completely on the up and up?

(27:55):
I mean, is there some sortof paperwork or legal stuff that people should
be looking for? And this iscompletely random in a one off, but
I'm curious. Yeah, I alwayssay when and I'll go without. There
should be paperwork, but the chanceof them falsifying the paperwork to put on
the wall just to save face thefact that you know, maybe the papers,

(28:17):
you know, the visas might notmatch up with the papers that are
on the wall. Basically, ifsomebody's offering effects, there is a chance
that it is being offered to forceproduct aaron and that potentially that person is
being human traffic. So and wedo see that quite a bit. Well.
The one that really sticks out tome that I don't feel like ever
gets its fair share of shit isNinety Day Fiance on TLC. It's like

(28:38):
we're kind of watching, you know, in a lot of ways, like
third world country marital human trafficking ontelevision. And I think the only reason
it's a little concerning to me isthat it's the highest rated fucking reality TV
show for like ten seasons, andyou're literally like watching these women marry these

(29:00):
goblins, you know, to escapetheir country. And you know, on
one hand, you could look atand go, wow, how great is
America that somebody would put themselves throughthat, But then on the other hand,
you could go, how fucked upis America that we would make somebody
go through that to be a partof our country, you know. So
I have a rule. I'm prettylibertarian about this stuff. As long as
it's dealing with willing adults, aslong as as it's completely consensual. You

(29:25):
know, the marriage topic that couldget really dicey because folks have been doing
that since the many a time,and another case it's that way as well.
So as long as everyone's willing adultover the age of eighteen, what
they want to do with their maritalsituation or body is really up to them,
right so, and to people reallyhonest, Josh, at this point,

(29:47):
listen, I'm thirty nine, Iturned forty and may at this point,
I'm about to do a ninety daysfiance because it's so gloomy, it's
so grim out here. It's sogrim out here. Like to day,
I'm about to do it to myself. You're gonna be one of those ninety
day The other ways, you're gonnafind like an astream guy or a British
guy, and then you'll go overto the other the other side of the

(30:08):
pond day anywhere, because it doesn'tmatter at this point, likewhere, yeah,
I think you just pitched a newshow ninety day whatever will have me?
Please someone marry me. My clothis kicking ninety day. Whoever fingers
crossed, it's a human being.Uh I listen, I'd almost take a

(30:33):
robot at this point too, Josh. Okay, So that's probably that's probably
coming. We're probably gonna have aninety day interspecies show coming up soon where
you're gonna there's gonna be a guywho's like, listen, I met this
cow in France and I've never lovedanyone like this, and uh, okay,
I'm not trying to have that conversation. Well, then there's a libertar

(30:55):
your libertarianism. Then no, nobody'strying to get down that the conversation.
I know, that's a whole worldI don't know anything about. I kind
of just think to the script,you know. Yeah, I was gonna
say, you're probably far enough downthe human trafficking thing to where if you
started to get into the pervasive worldof animals that your head would explode.

(31:15):
I mean it hasn't exploded yet.And like I said, I expect the
unexpected, and I've pretty much heardand seen. It all nothing surprising to
me anymore, which is pretty disgustingactually, because I've seen some really wild
stuff. Well, I remember Isaw a movie a long time ago.
I saw this movie, End ofWatch. It was a really good I
think it was David Ayer, theguy who just did that Shila buff movie

(31:36):
about like drugs in LA But Endof Watch it was a police movie and
there was some pretty sort of grotesqueimmigration human trafficking scenes in that movie were
just like, Oh my god.The idea that the police in Los Angeles
encounter stuff like this every day ishorrifying. But I think that's not necessarily
that that's part of the problem thatbut that is a distraction because that's immediately

(31:57):
where your mind goes when you thinkhuman trafficking, and you don't stop to
think that, like, oh,this acting agency that sort of has all
of these kids that are like fifteen, sixteen seventeen, Like, what's going
on behind the scenes there? Andso you know that that interests me a
lot is kind of what's going onin the world of entertainment. I'm sure
that's really popular right now because oflike the Jeffrey Epstein stuff and some of

(32:22):
the other cases that have come out. I mean, do you find that
that's where a lot of people tryto take the conversation with you because of
the sort of the that's almost likethe soup de jour, right, Like,
that's the popular sort of sex traffickingscenario of the year. That's the
one everybody thinks of first. Well, just to double back a little bit,

(32:44):
the US State Department in twenty nineteenhas said that seventy seven percent of
victims of human trafficking or trafficked fromwithin their state of origin, so are
within the country of origin. Sorry, so seventy seven percent are trafficked from
within a country of origin. Iwould be a perfect example of that.
I hated cheery pick, but youknow, I'm obviously a United States citizen

(33:05):
and I was trafficked in the UnitedStates. So a lot of times folks
think about human trafficking is coming acrossthe border. That's not always the case.
And I think that it behoods ofus to always speak about the truth.
Folks. Can we trafficking get acrossthe border and that's a nightmare.
A lot of times they're actually payingto be smuggled and unfortunately get traffic for
labors or sex. As a result, it's not always the case though.

(33:28):
Sometimes folks are just smuggled, thenthey're nether trafficked, so there is a
definite difference. The difference is thatwith a smuggler you have a consensual relationship,
and with a trafficker there has tobe forced broad a coersion involved,
So it can go for smuggling tohuman trafficking. And then with the Epstein
case, yes, definitely, thatchanged the scope of everything forever. It

(33:51):
took almost an outlandish situation and broughtit into a pop culture conversation. So
I'm very grateful that those survivors havehad the opportunity to be free to speak
out and to step forward. Nowit's on us to advocates like myself to
use this energy and momentum behind themovement. Now that the conversations going,

(34:12):
we just have to keep it going. Unfortunately, folks like to focus on
the elites, and I always liketo encourage folks like make sure you're looking
in your own backyard. Focusing onthe elites is not the entirety of the
whole Human trafficking has been going onforever, and the Human Traffing hot Line
itself has been around for ten years. Our first law in the United States
about human trafficking was twenty years ago, so this has been a while.

(34:37):
It's not just the elites, andit could be going on in your backyard.
So yes, Epstein definitely happened.I'm very close with the Epstein survivors
and I love them very much.But that is not the only human trafficking
scenario that's happened in the United States. Yeah, it's just the one that
got the most pressed. Unfortunately.I want to go back a little bit.
I mean, how did you getout of your scenario? How long
were you in and what did itsay for you to get out? So

(35:01):
I was trafficked a couple of times. The story is interesting, so I
always try to be as clear aspossible when I'm taking up on this journey.
I got out almost right away whenI was initially trafficked as a teenager.
Um, it's so funny. Myeyes always watering interviews, and I
always think people think I'm crying,but I'm not. Um. I cried

(35:22):
earlier today, not right now.UM, I was trafficked. I got
out right away, which was amazing. I was really difficult for those specific
abusers to handle. That's kind ofa running theme. Probably didn't come did
you Did you have help getting outor did you really just kind of,
uh, you know, uh,sort of force your way out of it

(35:45):
on your own. I guess that'swhat I'd like to know. The first
time, the first time I gotout, I had an overdose and I
was taking a seater cyani and umthat was that was how I got out.
The first time, I ided Iwas too difficult for them to do
with. That was a problem.I was a liability. A lot of
times when victims are a liability,they will get killed or left for dead.

(36:07):
And in my specific case, that'swhat got me out. So I
had an overdose. Grateful for that, ceter say. And I was incredible,
But I was young, I wasa teenager. That initial trauma was
already there, and I went backfor the lifestyle later on in life.
So the second time that I left, and this is nothing rare. Once
that initial trauma is there in thebrain, it's very normal for victims or

(36:31):
survivors, sort of like when youthink about domestic violence, like a victim
or survivor going back to their abuserrepeatedly. It seems like why would they
do that? It's almost like Stockholmsyndrome or a trauma bonds that are sort
of setting the survivors of a victim'shead that makes them want to go back.
I always sort of equate it tofolks when they're new to hearing this

(36:51):
information. When you think about avetic comes home from war, they may
have a debilitating injury and still beobsessed with wanting to go back to war.
You're like, homie, you haveno legs, like, why would
you want to go back? Andthey're obsessed with it. DOT complex trauma
reads very similarly in victim of humantrafficking's mind. So I went back the

(37:13):
second time. Getting out, Istarted watching a survivor on YouTube. Believe
it or not, I started watchinga survivor on YouTube, and she had
words to put to my experience kindof amazing, Josh, and we had
a chance to do a podcast togetherthis week, So you want to talk
about that's great. So that kindof came full circle for you. Came
full circle. Yeah, so somea miracle, but um so, after

(37:37):
I started seeing her on YouTube,I reached out to an organization that had
dropped off some bibles where I worked. There's the website on the back.
It took me a year and ahalf to email them after I got that
bible, but I kept that Bible. I emailed them and they came in.
That's that's amazing. That's amazing.That's amazing. M Yeah, you

(37:59):
brought up some thing that as summonyin the comments on YouTube, said,
you know, it's it's generally toughwith people who have sort of strong connections
or strong community. And I feellike for a lot of people in those
those environments, part of the reasonwhy it's hard to leave is, as
you mentioned earlier, a lot oftimes there it's happening from the people that
you consider your family or you consideryour close circle, and you feel like

(38:21):
like, well, you know,even though this is a negative situation or
bad or I know it's wrong,I don't have anyone other than these people.
I mean, and I imagine that'show a lot of young women who
find themselves in these circumstances feel,And that's maybe why it's hard to get
out. Am I on the righttrack with that? My pimps head made
it clear, Well, you alsohave to think there's that mental manipulation going

(38:44):
on there so there's that repeated beatinginto the head of you. You're nothing
without me, nobody wants you.You're stupid, Josh. I always remind
people like I don't even have aged so, and the truth is I
really never spoke publicly. I becamea public survivor leader in April twenty twenty,
so like I'm just learning how totalk in public. Still, Like

(39:07):
I'm just now talking in public.Like this is why I can tell you.
You're doing a hell of a jobfrom what I can tell. So
I'm sharpening my teeth. I'm sharpeningmy teeth. Ja, you gotta lock
out. Yeah, but um butyou know, so, it was like,
you're stupid, You're stupid. You'restupid, You're dumb. You're nothing
without me. You're only as goodas you look. You're only as good
as you're filling the blank. Willkeep it pigee for a family show,

(39:30):
but yeah, this is hardly afamily show. You don't need these these
savages prefer they're like, no,go, you know what, what do
they really say? Tell us they'recreeps? I mean, I get it,
trust me. We call it thegore porn sort of like people love
the Yeah, people love the peoplelove to hear the story. But that

(39:52):
is to me, the least tome. Being traffic, to me is
probably the most least interesting thing aboutme. I think what I've done since
then, it's probably definitely the mostinteresting thing about me. So that's to
me, it's like boring, Likethe trafficking thing, like, oh,
yeah, you know, it waskind of cutting dry. I had the
crap kicked out of me. Ihave permanent scars on my face and chip
on my teeth, and I've beento jail multiple times, and uh,

(40:15):
you know, so when you're leavingyour pinion know. Actually, Annie,
the survivor that I spoke to,has a saying. She says, when
you leave your pimp, you leavewith nothing, and that is exactly the
case to my case. I wasleaving with less and nothing. My former
abusers had wrapped up quite a bitof debt in my name, so I
was leaving with less and nothing.Yeah, I'm still negative. I'm still

(40:38):
negative. Well, one way thatpeople can help you get not negative,
and how we actually met is local, so people can go to your locals
community. I shared this link earlierand follow you on there and support and
you know the thing I that drewme to Locals right away was the fact
that, you know, it's obviouslya free speech platform. It was creative

(41:00):
Dave Rubins. So I felt like, well, if I'm going to build
some content behind a paywall, Iat least want to do it where I
know I'm going to have some completefreedom. The part that I didn't predict
at all, which has been amazingis getting to meet the other creators and
people on Locals and the fact thatthere really is this whole community there.
I would have never met you withoutit, and I'm ecstatic that there is

(41:22):
not just this community of people thatare, you know, very pro free
speech, but that have these amazinglife stories and these incredible, you know,
backgrounds, and they come from alldifferent kinds of places. And you
know, when I look at that, and I think when people say,
well, you know, companies likeTwitter and Facebook, they're private companies.

(41:43):
They should be able to you know, censor and distribute whatever they find suitable
and that's their free speech, right, It's like, yes, but look
at how many magnificent relationships would notexist without open platforms and people being able
to express so many different ideas.And I think a lot of times today,

(42:04):
we look at those things and allwe see is the conflict, and
we never see like somebody who couldbe helped by you might not see you
if you're taken off Twitter. Andso while some of the things you talk
about are graphic, or some ofthe things you talk about are hard for
people to understand, you know,it might take that for a girl who
was in the same situation as youto log into Twitter and go, oh

(42:27):
my god, here's Eliza Blue.She's been through what I've been through,
and I might be able to getout of this. And I don't think
people ever consider those stories when wetalk about censorship. I think people just
picture guys like me going, well, these are just asshole, straight white
men who want to say racist jokeson the internet, and we love those.
But it's also about it's also aboutbringing together people that may never encounter

(42:52):
each other in real life, andthere can be some really great things that
come out of that. Well,I think, you know my survival story
of encountering Annie on YouTube, it'sa perfect example, right, you know,
and well she has in the past. In the past week, I've
lost ten thousand followers on Twitter.Um, those are ten thousand folks that

(43:15):
could have shared the hotline and otheruseful information about human trafficking and could have
potentially survivors and saved their life.On top of it, you know,
big tech is perfectly willing to censorwhomever whenever they want, but are perfectly
unwilling to remove the child sexual abusematerial despite their own terms of service and

(43:35):
despite the law. We just hada case this week a guy was caught
with twenty two thousand child sexual abusematerial images of videos and Facebook is ninety
four percent of all reported child sexualabuse material and videos or come off Facebook,
Facebook, Messenger, and Instagram.Um, these are numbers in the
this year or whatever. I wouldnever know that. I would never have

(43:59):
known on that if you didn't tellme, Well, yeah, I think,
oh yeah, well there we was. So I'll be honest, there
were so many statistics and figures inthat I'd have to go yeah, yeah.
It was very data heavy. Itwas almost like, oh my god.
But yeah, I'm saying, youknow, I think we when we
when we think about websites like Facebookand Twitter, a lot of what they

(44:22):
do a good job of reading theirown press. And what I mean by
that is they'll talk all day abouthow they banned people for not following their
terms of service, and they seemlike they're out there really policing this stuff.
So when I saw that statistic,I was like, get the fuck
out of here. So you're shuttingdown, you know, aunt Cindy because
she posted a trump mean that youdon't like. And meanwhile, these these

(44:45):
staggering figures around you know, uh, child porn and stuff that's being trafficed
through Facebook is astounding that that stuffis still going on. Yeah, it's
not a it's not a light number. And for anyone that wants those specific
data and statistics, you can goto the National Center from Missing and Exploited
Children and just look up all ofthe statistics for every year going back to

(45:07):
as far as they've been collecting them. The numbers are staggering and heartbreaking,
and this is something very real.I think the porn Hub situation after the
New York Times peace and they've beentrying to expose porn Hub for a very
long time. But don't think it'sjust on Pornhub and it's on the dark
web. It is definitely happening,happening on a regular social media platforms,

(45:29):
and it's honestly time that the averagecitizen in the United States and around the
world stand up to this one specificthing. I think that this is,
you know, Twitter, Facebook,and all of their other branches Google are
profiting off this material, and Ithink that it's definitely time that they take
a stand and that we take astand, and that they be held accountable

(45:50):
realistically, because children can't report checkout no idea how to report? Do
you think? And I know wetalked about this briefly when we spoke the
other day, but I didn't reallywant to get into it offline because I
wanted to save it for the show. But I briefly mentioned to my opinion,
but I'll ask yours. Do youthink the normalization legalization of legal sex

(46:15):
work is part of how we combatthis? I know you mentioned your libertarian
My opinion is, I think themore we sort of normalize, make it
safe, and sort of regulate legalsex work consenting adults, the proper age,
the right kind of health precautions,etc. The likelihood of these kinds
of black market sex trades being ableto exist. I think it's harder for

(46:38):
that to happen. And what's youropinion on that? You know, people
always try to get me into thisconversation, and I have drugged you into
it. You're good. You know. There are a couple of things I'd
like to make abundantly clear and nocircumstances. Am I going to put a
non consensual rape, sexual assault orchild or childhood shual abuse material human rights

(47:00):
violation over the needs of a willingadult sex worker. Why this is even
a conversation is laughable to me,But okay, let's take it there.
So I don't know circumstances. DoI want all sex workers to be safe?
Absolutely? I love sex workers.I love sex workers the same as
I love everybody else. I lovesex workers the same as I love you,
Josh and my fr today. Okay, but I want everybody to be

(47:22):
safe. But at the end ofthe day, sometimes I think sometimes it
gets conflated because some people think,well, then we just have to abolish
all sex work, and I don'tthink that's ever going to happen. Let's
tackle the child sexual abuse materials.Let's tackle the child sexual abuse and the
human tracking, and then we couldtalk about the willing adult sex workers needs.
But until this is tackled, anduntil it's handled, I don't think

(47:44):
it's a conversation that I do feelthat it should be decriminalized because we see
children getting arrested for prostitution, Wesee children, you know, I mean,
this type of stuff is unbelievable.Human trasking victims or ever getting arrested
and having that on their permanent record, by no means should be something that's
acceptable. But there have been acouple of countries that have legalized sex work,

(48:07):
and unfortunately, the initial data thatwe are seeing from those countries that
are very small compared to the UnitedStates and predominantly homogeneous, is that it
is only increasing human traffiking. AndI'll break this down. I'll break that
down. I'll break that down.So when let's say, like you're taking
weed right, like you live inLa right, yep, okay, So

(48:30):
if you have your regular weed dealer, gosh, I hope I don't get
you a band say something wild.So if you have your regular redealer,
you're fine. By And by theway, this, if this does get
taken down off YouTube or Facebook,we still will have it up on locals
so people can go, yeah,they'll be able to get it on yours.
They'll be able to get it onmine. If people don't know what
mine is, it's Josh Denny dotlocals dot com. But yeah, this

(48:52):
entire episode will be unedited, uncensored, available on both of our Locals pages,
so anybody can go over there andcheck us out and support, you
know, for as little as Idon't know what your minimum set up,
but I think it's five bucks amonth. Everybody can support it those five
bucks a month and get all ofyour sort of uncensored content and thoughts and
ideas, and you know, thenyou don't have to worry about if a

(49:14):
show like this gets taken down,you can still have it up and you're
still good to go. You knowwhat's funny, It's like I'm on a
couple of free see platforms. Localsis definitely like my main I love Locals,
So yeah, I feel like you'rethe community ambassador in there. You're
in every and everybody's community is justparticipating. I'm I'm very supportive. I

(49:37):
was early. I feel like Iwas early, but not the earliest and
Locals, but I think I wassomeone that really got it. And also
I was one of the first.I have probably that I don't know how
to explain it. My community hasbeen very organic, and I just sort
of started it, you know what, Josh, I have my finger.
I've always had this way with sortof knowing what was going to happen an

(50:00):
in pop culture before it happens.I'm not meaning that to toot my own
horn, but it's just kind ofthe thing that I've always been able to
do. Um maybe because I getmy toes in many subcultures and you know,
pop culture things, and I knewwhat was going to happen with big
tech before it happened, and Ijust assumed, because I've never really drew
inside lines are played by the rules, that I would be on the chopping

(50:21):
block, and it has happened.I've been on the chopping block for months.
I've been banned and censored even thoughI haven't broken terms of service,
And you're not really just trying toreach out to survivors, give data statistics
and let people know my personality.You probably aren't as obsessed with my Twitter
as I am. But I don'tcurse at people. I don't, you
know, come at people's looks oryou know what I mean. I just

(50:43):
I don't have time for it,to be honest, and it's just not
something that intrigues me, so soI keep it. I run a pretty
clean show. Even when I DMJack Dorcity of it in and posted it,
I was still very I didn't sayanything why I try not to say
that. It was very respectful.It was confrontational, but it was respectful.

(51:05):
I've been talking to for months.This is nothing new. Ye you
know this is nothing new, ButI mean, listen, I want to
know why are we not pulling downthe child sexual abuse material. I've been
in the meetings. I requested themeetings like, this is nothing new.
Trust me, I've been I've beenbeating this works for months, since the
very long time, and I've onlybeen on Twitter for just a little bit

(51:27):
over a year. But to goback to what we were talking about,
if you're buying weed right, andif there's that tax on it, but
you're getting it legally and you're payinga lot more. We see this in
Illinois. I live in Illinois.Weed was legalized. People went out to
believe a legal weed and we're like, why am I paying double for this
weed with all these taxes and Ihave to go through all these loopholes.

(51:49):
We've seen similar things in countries thathave completely legalized sex work. So what
happens is the human trappers, perour usual arrangement, capitalize on what evers
going on. These are criminal enterprises, right, so they'll bring in folks
that will undercut the lolling doll sexworkers. So if you, Josh,
well maybe I shouldn't use you asthe example. So if person is going

(52:10):
to pay forty dollars for a blowjob, but the sex worker has standards
that they have to meet, likepaying taxes, making sure it's a clean
environment, using protection, it's ahuman trafficking victim has a quota to meet.
If their pimp says, or thetrafficker says, do not come home
to you have a thous dollars period, I'm gonna beat you, maybe kill

(52:31):
you. You will do that blowjob without a condom. You will do
more for less, Josh, youwill do more for less because you're trying
to reach I feel like I'm beingtold what to do than dollars. All
of a sudden, locals to seeif you're transferring all your locals money over

(52:53):
to me. They're like, what'sgoing on? Give me I need a
thousand dollars from your comedy to nightDot I need, I need all well,
I don't know how I Listen,You've got a better chance of me
sending you locals coins if I startsucking dick right now that if my comedy
makes that money, I bet that'sprobably more. I'm not judging, Listen,

(53:17):
I'm not over here stating judging.All I care about this, and
if you're a willing adult sex worker, I could care less. All I'm
saying is, let's deal with thehuman trafficking and the child sexual abuse material
first. Yeah, I see whatyou mean. It's it's been the child
sexual it is. Yeah, itwould be sort of a distracting thing to
be legislating what legal sex work lookslike, because regardless dealing with underage you

(53:40):
know, underage participants or people thatare doing it unwillingly, no legislation or
no um, no proper system isever going to fix that problem, right,
I mean, that's that's something thathas to be eliminated altogether, and
so it is separate. It does. It is shocking to me to hear
um just on the surface it thatthe legalization in other countries hasn't affected it

(54:04):
at all. But I guess itdoes make sense when you start to think
about people. Well, let's makehuman trafficking worse. Listen, if it's
legal in one listen, if it'slegal right across the border, traffickers are
going to go where people are comingfor sex, right, Like, I'm
listen, this is non negotiable.This is like we have the dance statistics
and back this up. It doesn'tmean I don't want sex workers to be
safe. And also I'm very,very open and willing to tackle you know,

(54:30):
the war on drugs has been adisaster. We're headed down the same
we're headed down the same road withhuman trafficking, but we cannot keep repeating
the same mistakes. So I understandthe full legalization argument, but like,
can we just get a grip onwhat's going on with the human trafficking first?

(54:51):
Sorry, I'm never going to putthe needs of will it felt sex
workers over human trafficking victims, rapevictims, sexual self betism, the child
sexual abuse victims never gonna happen.Nobody's ever going to be able to swing
onund that one. What do youthink is the best way that the average
person can you know, anyone who'ssort of interested in getting involved or trying
to help with this coming. Whatare little things that people can do in

(55:14):
their day to day lives or howare ways that people can get involved in
this type of thing that maybe theydon't know about. That isn't my favorite
question. I always recommend that folksdon't donate their time, talent, or
treasure. So whatever you're already doing, whatever you're already good at. Like,
for instance, you're a comedian,you could do a fundraising nothing good

(55:37):
at absolutely nothing. That's not whatthe boys they're saying on Instagram. Well
you know, but um, actuallyyou're bet at networking. You found me
fast. You're like, oh,I'm a lovest now let me go find
the let me go find the towncrier, and I'm in everybody's hey guys
him here. Um but no,I mean you're a comedian, so you

(55:58):
can do a fundraising event for alocal organization and organization that you really stand
behind, and that is you usingyour time, talent, or treasure for
the movement. If someone's a carpenter, think about working on safehouse. If
you make soap, or if youteach a yoga class, think about donating
those things to survivors. There aremultiple ways that folks can get involved I

(56:20):
always encourage folks to look at whatorganizations are in their area, research the
organization thoroughly to make sure it's completelylegit, because we do see organizations to
traffic as well. And yeah,that would be scary to me, the
idea that you could you believe you'reparticipating in the solution and then find out
you're actually contributing to the problem.It goes all the way up to the

(56:40):
top. It goes all the wayup to the top, all the way
through the middle, and all theway down to the bottom. It's it's
really actually, that's one of thereasons that I really just kind of rock
with other survivors and don't like toalign myself so much with organizations because it's
just there's not a high trust there. In my experience, it hasn't been.

(57:01):
There's a lot of problems there.It's really bad. It's really bad.
Why do you think big tech isnot making this a higher priority?
Is Is it because of the amountof traffic and the amount of money potential
income and money that it Joey's money. That's money. That's it. That's
the only answer. I Mean,it sounds so simple, but you know

(57:23):
it's is there really though. Imean, it's a human rights violation that
they're letting continue while we're chose annillingin our faith and speaking at human rights
conferences, donating the human rights conferences. It's really disgusting. Actually, it's
really a slap in the face everyday, and I'm not going to let
them forget about it. Well,I think that's great. I mean,
I think, you know, somebodyI think getting in their face and refusing

(57:45):
to go away. I think,you know, we need people like you
for all of these different causes thatare sort of being overlooked and not necessarily
taken seriously. I think you know. The thing that kind of you know,
concerns me about it is, asI've started doing this podcast and I've
talked to more and more people outsideof my regular everyday bubble of comedians,

(58:07):
when you find out how many peopleyou know have either brushed up against human
trafficking or directly been human trafficked inone way or another, it's pretty terrifying,
you know. And it's one ofthose things where you know, like
my girlfriend and I will joke backand forth of like, if you were
to be a betting person, youwould say that four out of five people

(58:30):
that you meet, particularly in LosAngeles, particularly in entertainment, are the
victims of some sort of sexual abuseor trauma. And I would say three
of those four have probably been traffickedin some way or And I mean you'll
hear these stories and a lot ofpeople don't know this. Like Demi Moore
was like trafficked by her parents whenshe was a young actress, and you

(58:52):
know, that's I think part ofher story that a lot of times gets
overlooked. I didn't even know aboutit until about a month ago when I
had kind of read that story.And then the unfortunate thing that you hear
a lot about of too, isunless people sort of get the right support
group around them, it's it's possiblefor them to become abusers themselves later in

(59:14):
life, because you know, theythey sort of repeat these cycles of trauma
and abuse. Yeah, in theentertainment industry, it's definitely very rough.
You know, people saw people todream all the time in Los Angeles and
in other places as well, andit's really sad and really scary. And

(59:35):
I would just encourage anyone in entertainmentif you see something, say something.
There's so many folks that walk aroundand say, oh, yeah, we
knew about Epstein for years, thenwhy didn't anybody say anything like, or
we know about frustrating part. Weknew about wine steam for years. These
folks knew about this and Steed silent, And to be brutally honest, that
to me, it's almost worse ifyou want to know the truth. Covering

(59:58):
up for these abusers so ugly andjust in sick on another level that I
can't. I can comprehend it,but it's just it's unbelievable. People think
that if it's not them actually doingthe abuse themselves, that they're not a
part of it. But if you'reremaining silent, you are a part of
it. And that's actually if youwant to know the truth. I've never

(01:00:20):
I guess I've never. I'm justhaving this thought like stream of consciousness.
But I think that that's why Igo so hard on Twitter, because I
know that it's a problem, andI can't remain excitent because I feel like
almost I'd be a part of theproblem, Like I'd like to post myself
use and look cute and you know, have fun and talk to my friends
on there. But at the endof the day, I cannot tweet without

(01:00:40):
thinking right now, a child's worstmoment of their life is being viewed repeatedly
on Twitter and no one's doing anythingabout it. So that's one reason why
I get so passionate. Well,there's a there's a blog on my website
from twenty fourteen that was the firsttime I kind of came face to face
with that dark side of Hollywood.So a lot of people know. Um,

(01:01:02):
when I had a corporate job allof the time through my comedy career
up until twenty thirteen, I wasfired from a company, and then when
I made the decision at that timeI was going to start pursuing comedy more
full time, and I started uberdriving on the side to make ends meet,
and I was doing a late nightdrive. One night I brought this

(01:01:23):
couple to a party in on MountOlympus. So anybody in la knows Mount
Olympus is kind of like you're startingto enter the rich end of the Hollywood
Hills right off of Yeah, youknow, Crescent Heights turns into Laurel Canyon,
And it was, yeah, wellnot when I get to this part
of the story. So you getto this this sort of giant industry party,

(01:01:45):
and the couple it was kind oflate. It was like already two
thirty in the morning. They said, listen, we don't know if this
is done or lame or whatever,so just you know, keep the meter
running, hang out front wait forus. So I did, and in
front of me was sort of likea nineteen seventies, you know, full
size van. And as I'm sittingthere just on my phone, kind of
reading articles and waiting for these people, there's a lawnfull of thirty forty people,

(01:02:06):
right, and this couple come outand the woman gets in the driver's
seat. She's getting ready to drivehome, and the guy's kind of leaning
into the doorway, kind of talkingto or you know, like people at
the end of a date or theend of a night hanging out. He's
kind of just like, I'm thinking, Okay, this guy's gonna give her
a good night kiss or whatever.And she's going to drive off, and
I'm sort of get lost in myphone, and then all of a sudden,

(01:02:29):
I hear a honk. The carin front starts to slide down the
hill towards my car, and Ijust see legs hanging out of the driver's
side door, and my first instinctis like, oh my god, somebody
overdosed or somebody's having a heart attack. And so the woman is like looking
out the driver's side doors screaming atme to help, and all these people

(01:02:50):
on the lawn, nobody's running overto do anything. Nobody's doing anything.
So I jump out of my car. You know, I'm in like shorts
and flip flops. I always say, every woman's worst nightmares to be rescued
by Ginger Kevin Smith than a hockeyJamy. So I run over there and
it turns out it's not what Ithought. This man is assaulting this woman,
and so I go to pull himoff. The guy is probably about
six three, but I probably hadfifty sixty pounds on him. I'm only

(01:03:15):
six feet tall, and it tookme a couple attempts to pull this guy
off. This guy was definitely underthe influence of something like PCP or you
know he was. He definitely hadsome some meth strength, if I were
to categorize it a certain way.But I was finally able to pull him
away from the car, get himdown to the ground in a chokehold,

(01:03:35):
and when he hit his head hit, I was like, oh, fuck,
I probably really hurt. This guypulled him out. The woman drives
away, the guy kind of getsup, comes to and takes off running.
Nowhere in this entire exchange is anyonethat's standing in front of the house
come over to participate, see what'sgoing on, or help or anything like
that. And there are in thisfront yard a list athletes and entertainers who

(01:04:00):
I recognize who are not getting involvedin this. And I'm sitting here going
what the fuck? Like what thiswoman is screaming for help and nobody's helping.
The guy who falls down runs away. The woman has the police on
her cell phone when she comes backdown the hill, and they go,
well, if the guy ran away, we're not even going to come out
and take a report. And Iwas like, well, what the fuck
is that? And then so Idecide I'm done for the night. I'm

(01:04:26):
ending the trip of the people Iwas waiting on. They're still inside,
and there's a guy who's standing outfront who's like, hey, are you
an uber driver? I go yep. He jumps in and then we drive
away, and I go, whatthe fuck was all of that? And
he goes, yeah, do youknow who that guy was? And I
go, no, I have noidea who that was. And he goes,

(01:04:47):
he is a member of one ofthe biggest acting families in Hollywood.
He's the brother of a very famousactor, and his other brother is the
head of the financial department of CIA. That was the CIA party. And
the reason that nobody got involved isbecause that guy is known for doing that
kind of shit at all of theseparties, and nobody wants to lose their

(01:05:08):
career by being on the wrong sideof that interaction. And I couldn't fucking
believe, like you hear these storiesall the time. And the guy tells
me, He goes, I don'tknow if you work in entertainment, but
if you were to publicly announce whothis was or whatever, you'd get sued
into oblivion and you would never workin this town again. And so when
people go, we all knew aboutthis, it's like, well, part

(01:05:30):
of the problem is we have alegal system that protects these fucking monsters,
And you know, we have asystem where other people I was like,
the fucked up thing about that isthe rest of the industry would have to
agree to blacklist somebody who exposed anattempted rapists like this dude had his pants
down and was literally trying to forcehimself on this woman. And when people

(01:05:55):
asked me, like, and theguy was like, you know, what
you did was kind of heroic,it was it didn't feel heroic. It
fell it felt necessary. Like Ididn't feel like good. I didn't feel
good about getting involved. I feltdisgusted that I had to. And what
I mean by that is there wereso many people standing by and doing nothing
that I couldn't help but like befeel grossed out by the entire thing to

(01:06:18):
think, well, it should nottake and out of shape me for the
right thing to happen, do youknow what I mean? And it was
terrifying to me, and I couldn'thelp but think, oh my god,
that could have been my girlfriend goingto one of these parties with a guy
friend of hers who's connected in thebusiness, and that kind of thing could

(01:06:38):
have happened, and a hundred fuckingcelebrities would have watched it happen and not
done anything. And you know,it's a terrifying situation. And the funny
thing is I had someone reached outto me who worked high up the ladder
at uber and said, I can'tbelieve we've never heard this story. And
I'm going to make sure that youtalk to the seat EO and the head

(01:07:00):
of risk management and stuff, becausethey need to know this story. And
at the very least you can tellthem who this person is, and they,
with more power and more legal push, can potentially say we're going to
blacklist this person. They're not allowedto use our platform. We know this
happened. And I never heard apeep, never heard a peep. And
so you know that when you talkabout the Weinstein thing, how many people

(01:07:25):
protected him, it didn't surprise meat all. After having gone through that
experience back in twenty fourteen, Iam not ever shocked at how perverse and
how far Hollywood is willing to goto protect itself. And listen, if
that's if selling your soul and turninga blind eye to that kind of shit

(01:07:45):
and this business is the only wayto get ahead, I don't want it.
I don't want to be a partof it. Well it's not just
in Hollywood too. I mean youhave entire blocks that cover for Pimpson,
you know, elicit brothels on theirblocks is thing new, Like this is
not just a Hollywood thing. Thisis like an everywhere thing. Yes,
it's extra bad in Hollywood because thestakes are very high and people give up

(01:08:09):
their entire lives to be stars andthey don't know how else they'll make it.
So I understand that, but thisis not just a Hollywood thing.
It's an everywhere thing. Nobody's reallywilling to stand up and say anything.
And the longer I'm in the movement, the more I realize I don't really
know why. I think if they'reintimidated by the conversation and they don't want

(01:08:30):
to seem crazy or were you know, like why is this person so obsessed
with this? But I think ittakes folks that have the bravery to stand
up and say, you know,what's going on here isn't right. It's
a human rights violation. This isa bipartisan issue. Why are we allowing
this? Why on earth are weallowing this? I think when it comes
to Hollywood, you know, Ican understand not everybody wanting to lose their

(01:08:54):
entire career, but at least givesomebody heads up, like, hey,
if you go back with so andso did something will happen. Now when
it comes to children, under nocircumstances should anyone be turning a blind eye
that needs that's the you know,I give a lot more leeway to consenting
adults, but any time, oryou know, to even adults, because

(01:09:16):
we don't necessarily know the circumstance ofthat. So that was kind of how
I felt. I had no ideawhat was going on. I only sort
of, you know, it's it'sthat weird thing of Somebody once asked me,
if you had known before you gotout of the car what you would
have encountered, would you have stillgotten out of the car. And that's
a question I can never answer becauseyou'd like to say yes. But if

(01:09:38):
I'm being honest, it's like,to your point, I don't know the
circumstances. I don't know what's goingon, and so I think the only
reason I sort of sprung into actionis because I didn't know, and you
know, and then faced you know, it was sort of like that scene
at the end of Back to theFuture where he opens hes like get your
damn hands off or biff. Imean, it was like that moment and

(01:10:00):
there was nothing like cool or cinematicabout it. It was just really,
I will tell you one thing.I immediately walked away from that scenario going
I need to be in better physicalshape to defend myself and that circumstance every
day and other people. And I'lltell you it definitely made me have a
completely different perspective about women in particularlyyoung women in self defense. I think

(01:10:25):
every girl from the time she's threenow should be enrolled in some sort of
physical defense class, whether it's kravmagar, whether it's jiu jitsu. I mean,
any of my friends who have youngdaughters, I'm like, get those
girls into combat training at a youngage because it could be life saving.
And it's terrifying to think that therecould be fifty men around a scenario like

(01:10:47):
that happening and not one good manamongst them who would get involved in rush
to help, actually the worst helpto cover it up. Like it's yeah,
it blows my mind. It blowsmy mind all the time. But
just because it blows our mind andit seems unfathomable to us, doesn't mean
that we got to keep turning ablind eye to it. So, I

(01:11:08):
mean, that's just the way itgoes, right. Evil is always hard
to comprehend, especially when you seehumanity and humans in a certain way.
But that doesn't mean it's not real. It's definitely happening. Uh, yeah,
you know, it's it's just happeningagain and again. Um you know,
I it's it's just it's really heartbreakingand I wish it didn't happen,

(01:11:30):
but it does happen. So wehave to function within the realm of reality,
if that makes sense. We haveto deal with it. It's no,
we can't keep sweeping it under therug. Josh. I apologize.
I have to plug. I haveto plug in real quick. I apologize
them moving juice. But I canhear you if you want to talk.
Okay, yeah, yeah, youcan plug it. I've never had to
do that before. By the way, we've got to get we've got to

(01:11:51):
get some pictures or some background imagesin your frame right there, because that
lonely wooden share against the white wallmay it looks like makes it look like
you're still being help captive. Soplease let everybody at home that you are
in good place. Josh, listen, I'm so bright on my own I
don't need a background. Okay,when you leave, but when you leave

(01:12:14):
the frame, it's terrifying, Josh. When you're in your frame, it's
garifying. Okay, okay, wellyou are not wrong about that, a
Liz, No, I don't getyou a hard time. Sorry, but
no, you know, this hasbeen a really weird time because before now,
well you have to remember I justbecame a public of Eylaterna twenty twenty
and I didn't the time of COVID. Correct. Because of COVID is why

(01:12:39):
I started speaking out. And uhit's it's a that's a whole other story.
But um but I wasn't set upfor this year. So my light
is new. I'm streaming on myphone like I don't have a computer.
I don't have internet access on myhome. This is I don't think a
lot of money. So um,so this has been a really weird year

(01:13:00):
and I've just tried to adjust accordingly. So I apologize that my artwork on
the back of my wall is nota suitable to your taste. I'll try
to work on now. No,it's not about my taste. I was
just making a joke. It justlooks like a mug shot, like that's
kind of my mug. Yeah,yeah, exactly. Well, and of
course the wood the wooden back chairalso lends to the environment as well.

(01:13:25):
It's very it's a very like backhome at Grandmam's house kind of vibe,
you know what I mean. Oneof my cats comes in the frame.
That's when it starts getting really up. Last, the last interview that I
did, I did the entire interviewwith a cat behind my back, and
I was just playing because it's justa long story with these cats. But

(01:13:47):
I was just saying nothing wild wouldgo down because I was like, Okay,
all I have to do is isact normal because some interviews I have
to be a little bit more seriousand pay attention. It's really hard to
what folks are saying. And soI was just like, oh my gosh.
So yeah, it's it's been aweird time, but I've just tried
to roll with the punches. Samething with locals. I thought I'd be

(01:14:08):
a content creator. I've said thatrepeatedly, like being a content what survivor,
you know what I mean, Likewhat survivor or an advocate thinks,
Oh, I'm going to be acontent creator. But I just sort of
saw what was happening in twenty twentyand I was like, Okay, you're
gonna have to make some lemonade becausethis isn't going away, so you're going

(01:14:28):
to have to adjust with the time. And I think, you know,
story is powerful. I mean,Hollywood loves to tell us the importance of
telling the stories that don't get toldvery often, but that's sort of that
sort of results into Spider Man beingcast by a black person and not necessarily
like people actually covering really really toughstories like yours or similar ones. I

(01:14:51):
mean, do you find that theinterest in sort of some of the documentaries
like the Nexium documentaries and stuff thatcome out has has sort of shed a
light in a good way on thesetypes of issues and that people are now
more aware and maybe more mobilized.Um, I definitely think it shows a

(01:15:13):
perspective. You know, I alwayssay every survivor of victim's story is completely
different. Um, you know,the Vowel and other you the Epstein documentaries
and our Kelly Lund same vein.Those have done a good job at telling
those stories from those specific, specificperspectives, but we need to continuously tell

(01:15:34):
the entire story. Human trafficking inIndia looks much different than it does in
the United States, so we haveto always just kind of keep an eye
on what's going on in every pocketand continue to tell the stories. I
actually don't think that my story isas interesting as you know what I mean,
it's I had the benefit, Josh. I always let folks know,

(01:15:56):
you know, I had the benefit. I was never walking the streets or
in anything of that nature. Sothere are survivors out there whose stories I
think deserve to be heard. UMneed to be heard and UM. But
I alsaually think. I think onthe flip side, I think by not
by having you say you you usethe words a boring story, But I
think in some ways that lends alittle bit of credibility to you, because

(01:16:19):
you don't have sort of a fantasticalstory that makes people question it. I
think I think, if anything,they look at your scenario and go,
god, that's that's sort of sorun of the mill every day possible that
it's even more terrifying, right becausewe go, oh my god, this
kind of thing could happen under mynose and I might not even notice,

(01:16:40):
versus you know, the ones thatget made into movies or documentaries, and
so while you might you know,you might say, well, it's not
as boring, or it might bemore boring than some of the other ones.
Um. I think it's it's definitelyeye opening to people to sort of
look back and go, oh wow. There are so many layers to this,
and there are ones that are sortof over the top and fantastic in

(01:17:02):
the sense that they have these crazycult leaders at the head of it,
and you know, like the uh, the yoga guy, that one that
came out yeah and um, andthen of course to Keith Ranieri from the
Nexium cult and the Vow Um.You know, those are the ones that
are sort of sensationalized, right.And the sad part is I'd say,

(01:17:27):
I don't know what the percentage is, but I'd say the majority are far
less sensational and far too common.Yeah. I don't know if the documentaries,
I don't think that the victims ofthose kinds of columns sensationalize. I
think they about say that they're spoton, and every survivor that I've spoken
to from all of those situations isleft out. But I would I mean,

(01:17:48):
I mean sensationalized in the public spacewhere they become yeah, you know,
like the Vow for a little whilebecame as big as you know,
the you know, the Tiger,So they become these sort of sensations in
the public space. Not really sensationalin terms of, you know, the
coverage itself, but in how thepublic reacts to it. Yeah, I

(01:18:11):
will say this, you know,I think it is scary when folks meet
me, especially parents, and Ido like all different types of podcasts.
I'll go on like Catholic radio stations, and I'll want to talk to anybody
about it, honestly, But Ithink one of the things that's most scary
for folks when they do talk tome is that I have an amazing family.
My parents are still together. Isee them very frequently because he was

(01:18:32):
on the same farm just a coupleof miles away. My dad's amazing.
I was never sexually assaulted as akid. You know, it wasn't like
we were very wealthy growing up.But the other thing is I was homeschooled,
so I had a pretty awesome life. And I think that's what terrifies
people, is like, Okay,if they happen to her, then it

(01:18:54):
could really truly happen to anyone.You know, were so supportive that,
uh are so supportive, And that'swhy I went to Hollywood at a young
age, just because I was promisedthis modeling deal and I was promised that
I was going to be a star. So um. I think that's what
scares people is they want to encouragetheir kids and then it's like, holy

(01:19:14):
Talita, this is what happened tothis person. You know, people always
want to say like, oh,they're from a broken home, or they
come from a history of abuse.There's no history of addiction. You know
what I'm saying, like literally,like the perfect family. That would scary.
I think that's really scary. WellI do, and I think you're
right. I think a lot oftimes it's very easy for people to write
it off and say, well,you know, there there are sort of

(01:19:36):
these symptoms that lead up to thisbecoming the inevitable outcome, and you know
stories like yours where none of thosesymptoms were prevalent. Um. I think
it's important for people to hear thatbecause then they go, oh my god,
this like you said, this couldthis could strike home for any parent
who is trying to be supportive andencouraging and um, you know want the

(01:19:57):
best for their kids. And youknow, listen, it's one point if
if your children are going to dosomething extraordinary with their lives, there is
going to be some part of partof that. That's risk. There's going
to be risk involved, and soI think every parent does their best to
try to um measure the risk andthe reward and everything else. But it's

(01:20:18):
it's not perfect. I mean,UM, how how is your relationship with
your parents now coming back having experiencedall that, going through it, um?
And are they involved in the activismwith you in any way? We
rarely talk about it. Um,it's been it's so made those words that
have it set have been only afew sentences about it. Um. They

(01:20:42):
were one of the only folks thatwere on I might call this at the
safe house was very small, soI had to call them to tell them
I was at the safe house becauseI didn't call them to tell them I
was going to the safe house.UM. So I called them once I
was there, so I had tosort of come with it and tell them
why I was there. UM.But it was a few sentences and then
it's been a few sentences after that. They're really speaking. They don't keep

(01:21:03):
up with my life. We talkabout pets, I talk about guys that
I think are cute, um,or you know what's going on with my
sister. We talk about. Youknow, I cut my mom's hair,
we eat together. I see myparents all the time. I saw my
mom this morning. You know,it's very awesome relationship. I love like
I saw my grandma today. Ipicked up for medicine and suffer. So

(01:21:26):
it's like a very normal relationship.I would say, it's just we just
don't talk about that thing. Wedon't talk about that thing. We don't
talk about it. They actually haveno idea like what I do um as
far as my public speaking and thingsof that nature, they have no they're
like oblivious to it. And Ifind because that's kind of my relationship.

(01:21:46):
It's my relationship with my dad's sideof the family. With my mom is
far more involved in everything that Ihave going on, but my all my
dad's side of the family, it'svery much like it's like, don't ask,
don't tell about anything, you know, sort of. I always joked
that people from the East Coast andparticularly Philadelphia, which is where we're from,
like, uh, if you givesomebody more than a minute to speak

(01:22:08):
about themselves, they'll depress you intokilling yourself. And so everyone's everyone's solution
is just not to ask. Andso that's kind of that's kind of how
people are in the East Coast.That's at least from in my family and
in my experience. So, um, you know, and God forbid you
ever gave somebody a solution to theirproblems, then they weren't allowed to beat

(01:22:30):
anymore. They'd hate you forever.So I mean, it's I don't know,
we just I don't know how tothink it. It's just we just
don't really talk about it. Butthere's so many other things to talk about
and to be part of the honestbecause I do it full time and then
I do it, it's like I'mover it, you know what I think.
It's like I don't even want totalk about it. So I'm cool

(01:22:51):
with that. I have to.I've told them some things, um,
but very slight, not about myown story more or less us about work.
Yeah, what you know, what'sin the future for you? So,
getting away from talking about the past, what are you looking forward to
in the future. I mean,in a lot of ways, I'm sure

(01:23:12):
you feel like you have this,this whole new life ahead of you.
I mean, what are you lookingforward to coming out of your experience?
And then you know, now workingwith people the way that you are.
Honestly, I don't put any capon it. This guy's a limit.
I'm here for it. I believein God, so I think I'm just
a passenger in this journey. Ijust every day I'm like, all right,

(01:23:33):
I guess I'm just in the passengerseat. We're gonna see what's gonna
go on. I'm here for I'mhere for all of it. I anticipate
a lot of ups and downs,and I anticipate that I'm also just beginning.
We have a lot of things plannedwith victims for a few silence with
the Epstein Survivors coming in twenty twentyone, including a new website launching soon.
I'm assuming I'll keep doing more publicspeaking if especially if the country opens

(01:23:56):
up, but generally speaking, I'mgoing full throttle, like all gas,
no breaks. I would love topull down the child sexual abuse material and
human trafficking from online. Obviously,can't say it enough. There's a reason
that A beat that so hard isbecause I firmly feel like when we are
able to completely eliminate it from thedigital space, that it'll give organizations and

(01:24:17):
law enforcement the opportunity to tackle itsolely on the ground. Right now we
are spread too thin, and Iwould like to increase awareness for adequate survivor
aftercare. We also have put offthe flow of money, right, I
mean, if so much of itis being monetized, you know, with
the help of the internet, ifyou cut off that flow of income,

(01:24:38):
then you you kind of you cansort It's sort of like cutting the head
off the snake. Right. Moneyis a big problem. Yes, I
definitely agree. But with cryptocurrency,it's going to be increasingly more difficult to
cut the head off the snake.So, yeah, that's an avenue I
didn't even consider. Is that thecryptocurrency piece of that is probably something people

(01:24:59):
don't even I didn't even think aboutall day every day. So I think
about all of it. But yeah, but you know, I'm very hopeful,
you know, with bitcoin. No, don't, don't, ye don't,
but you know, I mean,we I think about these things.
I think about ways that we canmaybe actually tackle it. I'm definitely being

(01:25:23):
on podcasts like yours. It's oneway that I'm really enjoying raising awareness because
it gives me an opportunity to speakto this completely diverse populations that might not
know anything about it or just onlyknow that Hollywood sensationalized versions, so maybe
I can just give them a differentperspective. But I have some goals just
for myself personally. I made itabundantly clear that I need that. I

(01:25:45):
mean, I'm asking Elon Musk forhis help multiple times, including in Teslaaratti.
I've done multiple things with Tesla,and I'm just continuously pushing for the
highest technology that we can possibly getbehind d eradicating this online, and then,
um, we need money. SoI'm just out here. I'm just

(01:26:05):
out here, and the sky isthe limit. Of course, I have
things I want to do personally,like dates and lose weight. So this
is a question I have, andyou don't have to answer if you don't
want. But do you find datinghard when people google you? Have you
ever had somebody come back and go, oh, I don't know. I

(01:26:25):
don't know if that's for me,or has anybody brought that up in your
dating life if they look at thatand if they're in if they're intimidate about
when somebody I want to be withanyway, Fuck yes, fuck yes,
that's the right. I'm glad.I mean, everybody already has everybody already
has baggage, right, So yeah, you don't need anybody you can't handle
it. No, I mean I'mbold basically like I just got fresh,

(01:26:49):
like I ain't got time for it. You know. You know everybody has
baggage and it's not really it's notreally happy, you dosh, just what
you do with it. And Ithink, if nothing else, I've proven
that you can definitely take some reallyhorrible situations and say, you know what,
I'm not going to let that bethe death of me. I'm gonna
grab this horrible situation by its ropeand flip it on its head. And

(01:27:13):
you know it's if I had hadthis stuff happened to me, Josh,
I wouldn't have had the opportunity toconnect with hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of
survivors that are desperate and need ofhelp in the United States and around the
world. I've served survivors in sixcountries, you know, I mean,
this is like this is And I'vealso gotten to meet some of my heroes
work directly with the sea survivors.I most recently met Rose McGowan on Twitter.

(01:27:38):
You know, I mean she shoutedme out. I mean, who
gets an opportunity to do that.So so I feel like, if that's
what it took to get me here, I would live through it again.
And that's the truth. I wouldlive to it again if I could just
be sitting here, Well, that'sincredible, I mean, and I'm always,
I always feel a lot better aboutcall or issues like this when they

(01:28:01):
have people like you with you,with your energy and enthusiasm and your fight.
I mean, the reality is isthat I think the unfortunate thing a
lot of times with with you know, problems like this that we have in
our society is the victim side getssort of told a lot, and we
don't spotlight the fighters, the peoplethat are literally on the ground fighting against

(01:28:25):
things, fighting to really help thepeople that are there. And you know,
and I know that can be alonely battle. Like sometimes when you're
fighting those battles, you feel likedoes anybody else give a shit about?
Am I the only person who's fightingthis? And I'll just tell you this,
I mean, I'm not I wouldn'tsay I'm a super religious person,
but I definitely am a spiritual person. And every time in my life I

(01:28:48):
felt like I'm ready to stop fighting. And I'll ask my mother, like
Why do I have to keep fightingthese battles? She'll say, because God
knows you can. And I thinkthat it's very true in your case.
I think you are somebody who hasmaybe been handed these things because it's it's
what you can handle. And youknow, the little bit of fight I've

(01:29:08):
gotten out of you in our conversationso far tells me that the fucking world
of human trafficking better strap in becausethey're up for a pretty big fight.
I mean, I'm not going tosit here and lie to you. I
have my moments where I weep.I have my moments where I'm like,
I'm done, I'm sick of it. I can't hang anymore. I have
a lot of times before meetings I'llpunch my mattress if I see something disturbing.

(01:29:30):
You know, it's almost in away. I think one thing that
is that people don't understand is thatI have been able to sort of compartmentalize.
I don't know if it's a goodthey're bad thing to be decided,
but I can sort of compartmentalize inmy brain almost a file, what mood
I want to have about something.So when I'm talking to you now,

(01:29:53):
I have a brief front, butwhen you know a hundred people are attacking
you on Twitter, You're like,why are you even doing this? Like
why am I doing this for free? You know what I mean? Like
why am I out here for free? But then you get a survivor that
calls you and tells you, youknow what, Eliza, you saved my
life when you did this. Youknow what, Eliza, Like you really
say, you know what? Thankyou for caring about me. If you

(01:30:15):
weren't there for me, I don'tknow what would have happened that night.
You're like, you know why?This is worth it? And then you
stand back up, you best yourselfoff, and you get back in the
ring. You get back in thering. So yeah, I do feel
sometimes like I'm alone, But thenI have a lot of support around me
too. I have great friends.I have other survivors around me. I
have honestly, Locals, Locals,the Locals community. You want to talk

(01:30:38):
about something a miracle. I cameinto Locals just to like hang out and
to have a sweet oasis away fromthe regular big tech platforms. And they
have been for no reason other thanjust the sheer kindness of their hearts.
The most supporting and loving group offolks that come. They show up at
my interviews, they watch my interviews, share all everything, they share my

(01:31:00):
information. And so when I seefolks like that that really truly have no
skin in the game come around,I can't help but be inspired and motivated
to go to the next level.Yeah well, I'll tell you, I
find you to be quite inspiring andquite motivated, and i'd be glad you
came on the show tonight, andwe're willing to give us some of your

(01:31:23):
time. And you know, Ihope, I hope somebody sees this that
needs to I hope or here's this, I hope it gets to If it
gets to one person who it canhelp or can turn you know, somebody
who's interested in being a part ofthe solution onto it, then I think
it's definitely worth our time. Sothank you so much for sharing yours with
us tonight. And yeah, yeah, well one more time, we'll plug

(01:31:45):
your locals so people can go findyou over there. Drop by to my
locals alive at local dot com.And thank you so much Lash for having
me. And I always like toadd inn if I can that if there's
any survivor out there, a survivorof sexual assault, domestic violence, or
human trafficking. If this conversation hasaffected you in any way, whether you're
currently being abuse, or whether ornot you face pass or recent trauma,

(01:32:09):
you can always reach out to theHuman Traficking Hotline, to Domestic Violence Hotline,
or the Sexual Assault Hotline. Theywill assess your needs and connect you
with local resources that can help youon in your journey and that there is
hope and healing out there and thereare a lot of folks out that loving
care about you. That's awesome.Thanks again, Eliza, Thanks so thanks.
You have a good night. Yeahdot cime over too scared to look

(01:32:47):
nowtine and distance between I and Iam. I want to be better little

(01:33:10):
one time you live Fall. Idon't know. Nothing can't be better little
one time? If you live Fall, who you should ask somebody? Because
I've got nothing to lose. TonightI misplaced my life tonight. She started

(01:33:30):
my friends away Tonight. I don'tsay the right things. I thought blood
the right way. That's just notmean. I listen to my music too
loud and watch too much. Stamp