#17 - Court of Public Opinion w/Julia Pels

Comedian Julia Pels joins us to talk about her cancellation in the LA comedy scene, and how domestic violence isn't always what it seems.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
All right, Julia Pel's welcome darkestHour. How are you today? Good?
How are you? Thanks for havingme? Yeah, of course,
having a little trouble getting it together. I just shock it up to you
know, women shit getting it together. What's getting it together? Josh,
I don't know. I mean,you know that we walked you through.
We did a lot today. Wewalked you through a browser upgrade, We

(00:24):
got your we had all your audiencefigured out. I mean, you know,
it's uh, it's it's a realit's a real uh mark for women's
in power with today. It wasfunny. I was tweeting with someone.
I was like, go figure,it's such an International Women's Day thing for
us to be late because I haveto walk you through software updates and uh,

(00:45):
I mean she replied, She waslike, this is why we don't
get a hot this is why wedon't deserve a holiday. And I was
like, this is why you guysmake seventy two cents on the dollar,
um, because nerds, nerds likeme have to walk you guys through things
like software upgrades. But it's thetruth. I mean, that's the thing.
There's nothing wrong with the truth.You know what I'm saying. Do

(01:06):
you know what I mean? Yeah, of course, I mean, well
there is today like nowadays, welive in a society where nobody likes the
truth. West uncomfortable, that's true. Yeah, that's you and I sort
of became like internet friends because welive in a world where nobody sort of
likes the truth, and we've bothhad our sort of run ins with that.
How did we did I find Ithink I found you because another comedian

(01:30):
friend of mine was like, youshould check this lady out. She's she's
a comic and she has an interestingstory like you do. And rather than
like jump into all that I meanyou know from in your own words,
I mean kind of walk us throughyour story. You've been in La comic
for a long time, right,yea, since twenty fifteen. M and
I started, you know, ofcourse, doing Bringer shows because who doesn't,

(01:53):
you know. And I was kindof a fish out of water being
from Chicago, um in such abizarre place in general, Like I remember
thinking because in college I was studyingpsychology, and I remember coming here and
being like, so many people areso mentally ill. Yeah, and it

(02:16):
was a real shock, you knowwhen you say that, like, yeah,
mentally ill what's the one that's themost common that you felt like you
encountered. Well, if I hadto pick one from the DSM five,
which is the diagnostic manual that youknow, therapists and psychologists and psychiatrists use,

(02:37):
No, I'm just kidding. Idon't know. I feel like there's
just a lot of If I hadto categorize, I would say cluster B,
and definitely therapists would know cluster B. It's the personality disordered clusters.
So the narcissists, the antisocials,the borderlines, the you know, schizotypal.

(02:59):
I think there's a lot of clustor B situations running around all.
Yeah, do you think it's youthink that's sort of just a direct byproduct
of the nature of what the townis about, right, Like, so
people come here in a weird way. It's like, of course, if
you just look at it from thirtythousand feet, of course those types of
people should be here. Everyone that'shere believes they're special and chosen and deserve

(03:23):
to be a star, and sonaturally you have to have you know,
I often joke like the biggest thingthat holds me back in my career is
not having that mental illness is nothaving that unquestionable faith in myself that you
know, talent, you know,or any of that doesn't matter, that
I'm just some chosen person who's destinedfor greatness. I mean I imagine that

(03:46):
you you kind of have to brusha little bit of that off and go,
Yeah, of course, the crazypeople who think highly of themselves are
here, that's what the town isabout. That's true. I do think
that it's the talent that breeds deathand only created. I mean, when
you think about it, like there'syou know, the alcohol and the drug
problems, especially in comedy, youhave a lot of alcoholics, you have

(04:06):
a lot of recovering alcoholics. Imean, if we're gonna again kind of
talk about it from a cultural,psychological standpoint or even sociological standpoint, it's
never been a healthy place to be, you know. I mean, it's
not really like a place. Andthen to top it off, when when
it comes to Hollywood, I mean, that's a whole another you know,
thing to unpack. If you ifif you're talking about suitcases here, you

(04:29):
know, I mean you've got themusicians, You've got huge Hollywood types with
tons of money and access to everything. So I definitely think the culture plays
into it. I think it's alot of I think a lot of people
are lost in general and especially now, and I think that just breeds a
loss of faith, a loss ofhope, a loss of direction. So

(04:54):
how did that, I mean,how did that sort of become? I
guess how did you run into that? And coming to Los Angeles from Chicago
as a comic obviously it sounds likeyou encountered it pretty quickly, and I
can tell you on the Bringer showcircuit, like, I'm sure we've done
a lot of the same bringers witha lot of the same people over the

(05:15):
years. And you know, it'sit's that's an interesting world in itself,
right because it's it's a person essentially. Um, It's it's very much like
a pimp relationship, Like this isa person. Listen. I got this
venue to let me produce a comedyshow here, and what I want you
to do is if you want toperform, you're going to sell all the

(05:39):
tickets for me, and I'm goingto keep one hundred percent of the money.
And it's like, what the fuckis that? Like, like I
could understand, Like I got thevenue and so we're gonna share the money
like that I understand in some regard, but this idea that these Bringer bookers
have this mentality of like, I'mgoing to keep all of the fucking money,

(06:00):
and not only that, but I'mgoing to slap you up figuratively speaking
of course, because that's never happenedphysically, but I'm going to smack you
up if you don't do your joband bringing enough people. It's like,
the fucking audacity of some of thesepeople blows my mind. It was a
lot, and it got to thepoint where I just started doing I was

(06:20):
doing so many independent shows that Itold him to stop. I said,
stop contacting me. I said,I'm doing. I said, I'm I'm
getting booked. And you know,you weren't really paying me or paying me
enough. And yeah, they're payingme more in pizza, you know,

(06:42):
of course, yeah, or drinksor whatever, right, and there's not
that pressure of like you better haveyour ten friends here or you're not getting
ten minutes. I mean, it'sjust it's you know, I didn't do
it. I'll tell you. Ithink I honestly, Josh, I think
I did two Bringer shows when Iwas done. Yeah, I did way
more than that for sure, youknow, and oftentimes I would have friends

(07:02):
come out, but it was likeit's a very weird dynamic. And I
don't know if you ever found yourselfin this situation where like you have a
friend come out, they buy aticket, which, by the way,
is an insanely priced ticket from thequality show that they're getting. Like I
was like, I remember having aconversation with Tammy Joe one time, and
I was like, Tammy, thefucking main room show at the stores fifteen

(07:25):
dollars, and you're charging twenty dollarsfor open mic level new comedians, Like
my friends will come support me,but the show is not a twenty dollars
show, so they'll never do itagain. Like, you can charge twenty,
but you better have all people thatare either really good and unknown or
all people that have been on televisionor are at that level, because if

(07:47):
for every legit comedian she would have, she would have four actors with somewhat
of a social media presence because shethought they would draw, and they don't
have fucking three minutes, let aloneten, And so you got somebody up
there fucking around for ten minutes,and people just get tired and get bored,
and it's like it becomes torture,and it just got to a point

(08:09):
where I was like, listen,there's only one Bringer booker I work with
in LA. He's a buddy ofmine, which is TK. And the
only reason I work with TK isbecause you have to be funny to do
his shows. Like he doesn't justbook people who can bring people if they
absolutely fucking suck, he won't putthem on the show. And it's like
that's the thing that's really strange forme. But I've also had, you

(08:33):
know, I've also had guys likeI went toe to toe with another Bringer
booker in LA, a dude namedBrian Monarch. I went back and forth
with him super hard a few yearsback, and I basically just called him
a pimp because he had booked meon a show and it was like,
the day of the I was supposedto do like ten minutes or something,
and the day of the show,he's like, I'm gonna cut you down

(08:54):
to below five minutes because nobody's boughttickets yet in advance, and I go
using my promo code and I goI was like, Brian, uh,
it's Los Angeles. Who the fuckis buying tickets in advance for any like
show that isn't job Whitney Cummings,Chris d'lie I got. I was like,
I know, I got people comingout, They're coordinating getting to the

(09:16):
venue with me. They're just gonnabuy their tickets there. And he's like,
oh, well, I don't understandwhere they wouldn't want to save the
five bucks. And I'm like,dude, because parking is thirty drinks or
fifty do you think anybody gives afuck about the five dollars difference in the
ticket price? Unbelievable? Can Ibe honest? Out of your mind,
dude? And I was also like, I was like, dude, I've

(09:37):
got two albums out nobody. I'mnot going to ask any of my friends
to pay to come see me dofive minutes anywhere, So take me off
your line up. Yeah, Iwill never I'm not. I don't And
by the way, I don't dofive minutes spots anywhere. Yeah, that's
anywhere minute. It's like, I'mI'm fourteen years in as a stand up,

(10:00):
I released two albums, I hadmy own television show. I'm not
doing five minutes anywhere. I wouldlove I would have loved to see your
show. Yeah, I'm sad Ididn't get to see it. Well that's
okay, Well, now why Ijust follow you now? So it's kind
of the same thing. Um,we ever go to lunch and you get
the horrible displeasure of watching me eatin person. That's all the show you'll

(10:22):
ever need. You know. I'vebeen waiting to ask you out, you
know. Um. But yeah,so anyway, you get into the comedy
scene. Um, and at somepoint you start dating another comedian, right,
this is where the actually well,I actually she's not. She calls
herself a comedian. She's not acomedian. I mean in mind like a

(10:43):
female comedian to me. But inmy humblest of opinions, okay, Um,
she was a storyteller, and Ididn't date her under the guise of
like, oh, you're a storyteller. I'm I don't usually you know shit
where I eat. Let's be let'sbe honest here, you know, a
smart move, Jen, But Iyou know, I wasn't really doing stand
up. I originally had moved here. You know, I was a theater

(11:07):
kid. I was a you know, Chicago theater kid. Musical Ballerina modeled
starting at age three. So Ihad been in an you know, in
the industry. Were you a toddlerand Tiara, No, my father,
my father was very against commercial,um modeling, acting any of it.

(11:28):
He allowed me to do it forlike independent because he's a photographer himself.
Okay, so independent like photographers thatwould would pay to photograph me in fake
weddings, you know. It waslike the little whatever would be. So
it was always sort of stuff thatwas almost sort of like um, not
editorial, but it kind of yeah, okay, editorial. I don't know,

(11:50):
I don't know that I would.I mean sort of like I mean
it was it would be fake weddings, it would be you know, more
lifestyle. It wasn't. Yeah.Yeah, there was one when I was
really little, I mean I couldn'thave been older than three, two or
three, and I won an award. It was just me in a little
ballet outfit. It's a little bowlcut. It was pretty though, and

(12:11):
it was named They named it sugarPlum Fairy and entered it into some competition.
So I had been used to beinggiven direction and hair and makeup and
all that I've been doing. Ithas been used to it, and it
didn't bother me. I was akind of kid. It was very calm
and kind of quiet and grounded.My mom was like, you just entertained
yourself, like you had patience andyou loved being there. You know,

(12:35):
you weren't crying like, oh,I just want to go home. You
know. She said you loved it, and they loved photographing you and all
that, and so I just continuedto do it, and then I got
into ballet and then theater and musicaltheater. So coming to LA, I
was looking primarily to do TV andfilm at first. When I realized that

(12:56):
I felt like such a fish outof water. I didn't have great headshots,
you know, I had a weirdresume for LA, I felt so
I felt ill equipped, and Iwas like, I really, what can
I do? I remember thinking inmy mind, like what can I do
to stand out right? Like Idon't. I just felt as though,
you know, younger at the timewhen I moved here, you know,

(13:20):
not that I'm old, but younger. You know, blonds they're not there's
so many of us, Like whatam I gonna know? What am I
going to do? You know?So I took some time off, like
I took a year and just kindof I worked hard to live in not
such a crappy, scary neighborhood withgunshots, you know, because I wasn't
used to that, you know.I grew up in a relatively affluent yet

(13:41):
diverse place. But so I hadmoved into a decent neighborhood. And then
I thought, you know what,I'm going to try to stand up,
and so I started. I startedthe stand up. I met my ex
who we were talking about earlier,about a year in to the stand up,
and then and we started dating again. She was more of a storyteller

(14:03):
and an improviser, so we didn'texactly run in the same circles. Sure,
but there was a group. Itwas a Facebook group that was an
all female Facebook group. And Igot invited into this group and she was
in the group. And I didn'tlike this group from the very beginning.
And it's interesting, is this oneof like the all women comedy groups?

(14:24):
Yes? Yes, yes, AndI remember seeing things in this group like
and this is important part of thestory because this group is woven into it.
And I'm going to give you theshortened version because you know, we
don't want to be here all week. You know, we don't know,
but I think it's interesting, andI'll put this disclaimer out there for anybody

(14:45):
watching now so they kind of knowa little bit of where this st is
going. But like a lot oftimes, we talk about sort of like
on my other show, on thewake Up Call more than the Darkest Hour,
we talk about how very much howlike progressive things end up eating themselves.
And this group, which for peoplewho aren't in the La comedy scene,

(15:07):
don't know this group, but it'sit's a Facebook group that was essentially,
I think created with a good intent, right. The intention originally,
let's give female comics a place tonetwork and have sort of a safe space
away from male bookers so they canactually talk candidly about some of the male
bookers, because as we know inHollywood forever, there's been fucking creeps at

(15:28):
the helm for a long long time, and so on the surface, it
makes total sense to have a placewhere female comedians can get together and go,
hey, you know, stay awayfrom this casting director, stay away
from this comedy booker, don't goon the road with this guy because this
guy might try to fuck you.Those types of things, which makes sense,
but It's interesting how quickly when groupsof people that traditionally have been marginalized

(15:50):
come together, how quickly they go, wait a minute, there's power in
this group now, And how canwe now become oppressive in our environment ourselves?
How can we now control things ormanipulate things or influence things. And
so when we started talking about yourstory, I was like, man,
this is like that classic case ofsomething that started from a good place that

(16:12):
got completely co opted and is nowserving a really shitty purpose. Yeah.
I mean I remember again, Iremember seeing things take place in that group
before anything negatively happened to me,and I would get viscerally uncomfortable and think
I need to leave this group.And then it got to a point where
I was afraid to leave the groupliterally because I thought I was too afraid

(16:34):
to put it in my stand up. I was encouraged like, oh,
you should joke about this. Thisis so funny. I mean, I
think I was well received for along time with this independent crowd of it's
primarily women. Yeah, I don'treally get much hate from men, But
then again, my comedy is youknow, I think guys understand it.

(16:56):
I think men are more likely tounderstand where I'm coming from with what I
talk about in terms of sexuality,not being gay, but I talk a
lot about having sex with women andthings that go along with that. I
talk a lot of relational things,in psychological and emotional and cultural things about
women that men understand very deeply.That I don't think women always find funny

(17:18):
because they don't necessarily want to admitthat it's true. Yeah, sure,
I mean, you know, andthat to me, that makes logical sense
that women that have sex with womenwould have things in common with men,
right then also have sex with women, like right, Theoretically there should be
some shared experience there, Right,I think a logical person would agree.

(17:41):
Yeah, I don't think our experienceis going to be the same. I
mean, obviously we're coming at itfrom a different lens. You're a man,
I'm you're a male, I'm afemale. You know what I mean?
I know there's a lot of thingsthat are swirling. For instance,
like women, I do not knowright right to test them, No,
God, I do not. Yeah, I mean there's a lot of fluidity,

(18:03):
you know what. There's like,there's a lot of like especially with
people's I guess, you know,people say gender as if it's your biological
sex. Those are two separate things. Is what you are, the other
is how you present yourself. It'sright, and I just write and people
like to put them together and makethem with it. So it's no,
it's as as a lesbian as afemale. I have a lot in common

(18:27):
with men and or males because wehave so many shared experiences that are either
annoying, funny in common. Someshopping story, some yelling stories, some
behavioral story. It's enjoyable. AndI've always had a very grounded and close

(18:48):
relationship with my father. Well,that to me, it's so interesting that
you bring that up, because that, to me, in my life has
always determined with maybe one exception,but it is always determined which women I
can fuck with and which ones Ican't. Every healthy relationship I've ever had
with a woman has been somebody who'shad a good relationship with their father.

(19:10):
And all of my female are womenwho had good relationships with their fathers,
And all of my gay female friendsthat I can tolerate that we get along
and we we have a similar senseof humor, similar sensibilities. They all
have great relationships with their fathers,So It's interesting say that because it just
further validates, Wow, this feelingthat I have that generally, for the

(19:33):
most part, women who have youknow, good relationships with their fathers are
just much different to deal with thanone. Yeah, we're different people,
We're different. Yeah, we stillmight be technologically disabled. Yes, yeah,
well you know, unless you're BillGates, I understand, right,
right, But I mean I reallyappreciate and my mom was the one who

(19:59):
is who is I mean, youknow, really with us in junior high
for me, junior high in highschool because my dad was a publisher,
a very successful publisher of a magazineand flying all around and doing amazing things.
And but my father and I hadalways, you know, as a
younger, as a child, youknow, we always had a good relationship.
I'm sorry I straight off about thething, but I thought it was

(20:21):
an important thing to bring up thatwe really, you know, have always.
And it's a little Freudian, butyou know what, again, I'm
always looking at things kind of froma psychological social perspective, and it's like
it's also it's also more interesting tome because in a way it does defeat
the man hating lesbian stereotype. Thatlike, oh, this woman hates her

(20:42):
father and therefore she hates men andthat's why she's gay. It's like that
immediately that argument gets completely defeated whenyou know it's someone like you who has
a great relationship with their father andI love men. And it's even on
my website. It's like Julia isa man loving lesbian and people are like
so what, Like they can't.They'rely sorry about the vibe. I should

(21:03):
have turned it, but they're veryit's it's a very confusing. Um.
They're like, she's really backed.Yeah, yeah, it's like an anomaly
and they're trying to figure it outand their head they're like, wait,
is she just bisexual? And shecan't and it's like no, I just
genuinely enjoy the company of men more. I can't wait for all the women
to lose their minds and be likewhat a fuck? Ain't coorac match?
I hate her. It's just it'sjust the thing about it is I react

(21:26):
better. You know, when we'rechemically charged, right, and when we're
near different people, we feel theirenergy, or at least I can feel
people's energy. And when I'm arounda bunch of neurotic women. It makes
me more erotic when I'm with someonewho's like pressed the chrome button right like
drop the ship down like a verylogical, very male, very get at

(21:48):
the fuck done kind of way.Then I'm like okay, yeah right,
like I didn't result. I wasliterally just like listen, FACETI camera like
that and I will tell you whatto do. But like that's what women
need, Like I I don't wantto speak for all women, but for
me, like I don't want someonewho's gonna either like sugarcoat it or be
too mean, Like you just gottabe direct, you know, like okay,

(22:11):
do the FaceTime now, turn turnaround, can't see the computer?
Like for me, I just needdirect and men are direct. Yeah,
and some because there's there's actually it'sactually pivoted now where I think some men
have sort of capitulated a little bit. Yeah, women want and they have
completely like cucked pussified themselves. Somemen are worse than the worst lesbians.

(22:36):
Oh I oh, I a hundredpercent agree. And I don't even think
it's a lesbians who are the worst. I actually think it's it's it's the
straight women. Yeah, the beta, the beata. Well you gotta be
specific about because it's angry. No, it's not all, but I think
no, no, no women,women, it's great women. No,
it's straight. Straight women are soangry, so so angry. Not all.

(22:57):
But there's a group I mean,and this, this is, this
is the group that I'm talking about, going back to the faceboo. Let's
let's go back to the Facebook thing. Because these women were not lesbians.
I'll tell you something right now,I'm speaking on behalf of all men.
Are you sure no, just I'myeah, maybe they should definitely, you

(23:18):
know, I feel like lesbians areactually cooler with guys than straight women are
when you do the research, likeif you actually go into the field,
yeah yeah, one of them becomefriends with one of us. Yeah,
well, one of the I'll tellyou this. When I first started stand
up, I was in Minneapolis,and I used to do this open mic

(23:38):
in Coon Rapids, Minnesota, nota real woke name for a city,
by the way, and so,but one of the comics she didn't do
any other rooms than this bar inCoon Rappids. And she's a black woman
named t T. And she waslike a male presenting lesbian. And when
I say male presenting, like dressedmail, spoke al, didn't necessarily use

(24:00):
male pronouns because it honestly didn't matter, but like literally walked like, didn't
just use a strap on for sex, walked around with a prosthetic people.
Yeah. Always And by the way, the fucking funniest sense of humor absolutely
could be made fun of, absolutelycompletely like Armadillo's skin, no crisis of

(24:22):
identity. If we gave her shitfor who she was, she would laugh
it off and be like, yeah, we're all busting each other's balls.
Mine just happened to be latex likethat. That's and it was like so,
so it's interesting when people talk aboutlike, um, you know when
this is I get into this debatewith people all the time on social media

(24:44):
about this this concept of what ispunching up and what is punching down,
And it's like, in my mind, my experience of making fun of trans
people has never felt like punching downbecause I've always viewed them as equals.
I've always viewed black people as equals. I've always viewed gay people as equals.
So I will fuck with them andmake fun of them like an equal
right. And and when you startto like decide well, I can't make

(25:06):
fun of these people. Essentially,you're saying I can't make fun of this
group of people because I feel they'rebeneath me. That makes you a shitty
person. I think it's very bizarre. It's really I've never I mean,
people aren't people aren't are you know? Again, from the psychological perspective,
they're inherently tribal, but they're notinherently racist, just like systemic racim or
systemic shit has dissipated. But there'sindividual racism or individual sexism or individual and

(25:33):
then what we do is say,well, it's systemic. It's everybody is
this. It's no, it's not. Yeah, no it's not. Sad,
it's not. And I don't careif they hate me. I don't
care. Yeah, I don't care. I don't. So so staying on
tasks, it's started for you inthis Facebook group in the well, no
it didn't, okay, I meanwhat it started with was well kind of

(25:59):
so it was on Facebook. Soin twenty and eighteen I decided to give
a little pushback. Okay, wellwe'll start there. Because I saw everyone
in my group of whatever, acouple hundred women or the Facebook group for
example, or the women I washanging around with, because obviously there's a
bazillion comedians, right, this isn'tthe entire La comedy scene that thinks or

(26:22):
believe or you know. This isjust a certain group that I happened to
follow in it. It was agroup of indie comedians that were very like,
we're open minded, we're diverse,like we're welcoming, come join us.
That was the Facebook group that wasthe and my y the sales pitch
essentially exactly you got it. Andmy ex happened to be not X,

(26:45):
you know my X now, butnot at the time. She was in
it, but we weren't in itwhen we weren't together. We were in
it after we had already been involved. So I started dating her and I
actually broke up with her. Iasked for no contact. I blocked her
email, I blocked her phone.I said, if you see me out
in public, please just walk awayand don't acknowledge me. There was no

(27:07):
blowout fight, there was no screaming, there was none of that. I
just said, look, we kindof are in the same community. I'd
like to keep it peaceful and quiet. Please do that. She did not.
I'd see her out and she wouldget in my face, she'd corner
me in bathroom, like just dodumb shit. I ignored it. Finally,

(27:27):
this is where we're getting to.The Facebook post in October of twenty
eighteen. I'm watching everybody run theirmouth about all men are rapists, all
men are bastards, all men allmen, all men, women are great
women, power men. Mim bedthat that, and I was like,
this is a lie. This isa lie, and I'm done with the
lies. So I'm gonna tell andI do want to say this. So

(27:49):
I wrote a me too post onmy Facebook about my ex that I just
talked about that I broke up within March twenty eighteen. Have the email
if anybody wants story in it.I love how people just don't believe facts.
But anyway, um, but Ishared a story about, you know,

(28:10):
an interaction with you and your exthat sort of was intended. I
don't want to put words in yourmouth, but was it intended to sort
of say that this isn't a maleonly thing? Yeah? One, I
mean a million. I can't Ican't emphasize that enough. I the the
whole, the whole, exactly.It's I mean, all of it isn't
a This is abuse doesn't know gender. People need to okay abuse. Let

(28:36):
me just let me just yell itfor the people in the back here.
Let me roll up my sleeves andjust let everybody see that abuse doesn't know
gender. It's not about a penis, it's not about a man's brain.
Abuse is about power, it's aboutcontrol, it's about manipulation. It's about
being mentally ill for the person who'sdoing it. Well, you know.

(28:57):
It was what was a real interestingdiscovery for me in sort of one of
the very quietly discussed parts of theMe Too movement was that it doesn't get
talked about how common domestic violence isin same sex female couples. Like and
I was shocked to see we're inthe number one bracket. We're in the

(29:21):
number one bracket, meaning we're abovestraight couples. We fight domestically and get
domestic violence. Sorry to jump in, but chart this makes me crazy that
no one knows this. We arelesbians are in the number one bracket.
It's like lesbians and I think it'sgay men, then I think it's hetero,
and then I think it's bisexual.I think the bisexuals are the chill
and they can share this and Ican share this story. I think I

(29:42):
shared it on my podcast before,but some of it is I think because
the rest of us don't have thesame reaction to it that we do with
male female violence. And I'll sharemy own experience. When I was uber
driving many years ago, I wasdriving two gay guys, one very masculine,
one very flaming point and were arguingin the backseat of my car.
And they were Latino, so itwas even funnier because the accents helped sort

(30:06):
of play to the story a littlebit. And the one guy was like,
you'll be in a fucking beach andyou don't know when to shut up
and jo make a mellot stupid andlike I hate you. And he's like
and the other guys like, youdon't tell me to shut up. You
don't tell me to shut up.You tell me that. The masculine guys
like, you tell me to shutup, I'm gonna fuck you up.
And he's like, bits shut up, I'll tell you to shut up.
He's like, I don't even cashshut up. And I'm just driving the

(30:30):
Uber and I'm going like, dude, he's telling you to shut the fuck
up, like I would shut up, like, please please shut I don't
won't have to drive to the policestation today. Please just shut up,
and um, oh my god.And and it was weird because like he
kept fucking antagonizing the feminine gay guyand then the dude belted him across the
car, and in my mind,I my reaction wasn't oh my god,

(30:55):
this is domestic violence. I needto drive these guys to the police and
report this. My initial reaction washe fucking told you to shut up.
It was like I didn't see itas masculine feminine. I saw it as
two men fighting, which I haveno problem with. And so part of
the reason I bring this story upis I and I even had this like
weird existential, like all day discussionwith myself of like is that wrong of

(31:22):
me? Like what does that sayabout me that I that I allow the
fact that their gender is the sameto dismiss the violence and not think anything
of it. And then I startedasking bigger questions of like, oh my
god, is that what we dowith black on black crime? Do we
not think anything of it? Aswhite people or anyone else? Sort of
peripheral to that of going, well, that's just two black people fighting each

(31:45):
other. That has nothing to dowith me. And it's kind of weird
how we do build so much ofthe sociological structure of what is acceptable and
not acceptable off of things like genderrather than off of Is this a much
bigger man fucking up a much smaller, petite man? And should I have
as much a problem with that asI would if it were a man and

(32:06):
a woman. And listen, it'snot for me to say what's right or
not. I can just tell youthat I recognize that there was a distinct
difference in myself that one I hadalmost no reaction to other than should have
kept your fucking mouth shut versus ifit were a woman. That has happened
when I was driving over before,where I've had men and women get in

(32:29):
those situations and I jump in rightaway, I get involved right away.
I established that there will be consequencesright away. And so you know,
I can't say I don't feel badabout it, but I am curious about,
like what that says about us ashuman beings, where one I have
no problem with and the other oneI definitely have a problem with. Well,

(32:51):
I think it's more. Again,I'm coming from it from a psychological
lens. I don't think it's usas human beings. I think it's more
what we have learned, what we'vebeen taught. Sure in schools, you
know what's been emphasized, what's beenplayed down, what's been hidden, what's
been brought to light? Um,I think I think it's I don't think

(33:12):
it says anything about you. Ifyou want my psychoanalysis, what you didn't
ask for, Um, I don't. I think your thoughts are unfortunately pretty
normal. But here, but here'sthe problem with the society we live in
today. If I would have jumpedon social media and been like this happened
and here's how I feel about it, and I don't know how to feel
about it, I would have gottendemolished. Yeah, I would have gotten

(33:34):
demolished. So it's like we livein a society today to where a guy
like me can't even like discuss thatin a public setting without risk of being
crucified, you know what I mean? Like I can't even have that conversation.
I couldn't even go on Twitter.Like I was totally fine watching one
gay man beat up another game manearlier today, And if if the gay

(33:55):
man who got his ass kicked wasa woman, I would have had a
problem with it, Like what doyou think about that? I would have
gotten crucified, like I would havebeen you know, that would have been
my first canceling because that happened likesixteen or something. Yeah, it would.
Yeah. Well, because here's thething. We live in a society,
Josh, where we can't talk aboutwe can't ask questions. So you

(34:16):
know, like my friends will callme and go, hey, is this
is sorright to write like, youknow, from a lesbian perspective, And
I always think, of course,my battery is dying here. But I
always think to myself, like,why are you deeming me as the lesbian
perspective. I'm just a person,like I don't know. I mean,

(34:37):
I always give them the thumbs up. They're like, is this offensive?
I'm always like, do it?I don't know. It's not offensive to
me. But you know, ittakes a lot to offend me because I
you know, I do know whoI am, and I'm pretty psychologically sound,
which I know is scary for alot of people. But so in
this group, you share this story, this is well actually it was.
It was on my private Facebook page. It wasn't even in the group in

(35:00):
twenty eighteen. I just I justdecided to write a me to a post.
It wasn't graphic. It was actuallyvery If you read the post,
it's very political in nature. Itchallenges, um, the feminists. Um.
It challenged the dynamic of believe allwomen. It challenged the narrative that
you know, yes all men.UM. It challenged a lot and it

(35:22):
was probably infuriating to a lot ofwomen in that group, the progressive,
you know, forward thinking whatever theywant to call themselves. Um. And
what was the first shoe to dropinto it when that happened? Well,
no, once you put that postto post, what was the first shoe

(35:43):
to drop where it started to becomelike a cancelation for you? Well,
first everything was I believe you,I love you, were great, right,
so I believe you lahdah blah blahblah blah blah blah. So then,
um, the first thing that thatnegatively went wrong was I got I
was on stage. You're gonna appreciatethe story. I was on stage talking

(36:07):
doing my routine, which is metalking about how women are mentally ill.
I mean sometimes, and I gotserved at the comedy I think it was
at the comedy store on stage byone of her friends, Like she did
it on purpose to try to freakme out, and instead of it freaking
me out, I just used itand the crowd loved it. So I

(36:28):
got served actual papers. I gotserved a temporary domestic violence restraining order,
UM domestic violence restraining order. Herand I had not, let me just
say this out loud for people whodon't read, we had not spoken to
each other, been in contact witheach other, like we had crossed paths,

(36:53):
yeah, yeah, but not evenin the same room. Like really,
we did not see each other forI'd say about three years when I
wrote this post. So I wasthinking, in my head, the worst
that can happen is she can civillytry to sue me. But I have
evidence that she was abusive, Soif it's true, she can't sue me.

(37:13):
Right. But it's true, right, And it was true, And
so I in my head, becauseI even checked with some attorney friends,
I was like, Hey, I'mgoing to write this post. I did.
I didn't just impulsively write it.I in fact, Josh wrote it
and deleted it. Like five times, because you know what, I do
want the thing to do. Bythe way, whatever the point is,

(37:37):
I agree with you. The pointis, though, is you know I
would say now, I mean,if I was to do it over,
I don't. I don't regret it, but I don't think that's the right
way to do it. I thinkit's just the way everyone was doing it.
And I was so mad at thenarrative that I was hell bent on
telling the other side. So oh, you know, you you go when

(37:58):
you're trying to rally against the narrative, you know, And this is the
argument I make when people go,if you don't like Twitter, just make
your own Twitter. And it's like, well, this has happened. This
is the town square that this conversationis happening in, right, So I
want to have this conversation here wherepeople are already having it. I want
to be a dissenting voice where theconversation is taking place. I don't want

(38:21):
to go start a new conversation ina vacuum. That's not what opposition thinking
is. That's just creating a cultto fight another cult. That's how religious
crusades happen when those ideas have tolive separately until they decide to murder each
other. So you know it's Idon't put any stock in the idea of
that was the inappropriate way to doit, because you're going to the town

(38:43):
square, so to speak, andsaying I have a story that doesn't fit
this narrative. I'm just not one. I just want to convey to anyone
who's watching and even to use,since this is our first meeting, that
I'm not one. In fact,I'm actually really private in general, and
i'm not one too. You know. I don't believe in ruining people's lives.
I don't believe in airing your dirtylaundry. But you're right. The

(39:06):
town hall was having a discussion andI felt as though i'd kept my mouth
shut. I've always been the goodgirl. If you read other interviews about
me, I talk about growing upin a small town. I talk about
being a ballerina and always very petiteand you know, attractive, as people
deem me, which I still seemyself like a twelve year old in overalls.
But whatever, if you all wantto see me as hot, great

(39:28):
you use my booty. I'm goodwith it, you know whatever, I'm
fine. I just think It's funnybecause people see you in this light and
they judge you when they just don'teven know who you are. And I
just I think it's interesting. Soso I did the me too post.
So I went to the town hall. I did the me too posts.
Everyone believes me. Then I'm onstage doing jokes, my typical Julia jokes.
I'm at the I'm on I tryto think. I think it was

(39:51):
the belly room at the comedy store, and my girlfriend at the time was
with me. I'm such an abuser, you know, and my girlfriend at
a new totally different I had datedlike three or four girls that would love
to, you know, get upand be like, Julia's a really nice
person. You know, most girlsyou interview like she asks too much in
bed. If I'm okay, it'sannoying. We just want her to shut
up, you know. I'm kindof a girl. So sure, so

(40:15):
I get the order and I justlike took it, and I mean,
you know, I don't mind sayingthis now, but sure inside it felt
like I was on fire. Couldbecause not because I was being served,
but because I had no idea whatI was being served with or why she
because I had done nothing illegal.I had done nothing wrong. I had

(40:35):
nothing to get papers served on.Again, if it was a civil suit,
I wouldn't have been asked surprised becauseI would have been like, wow,
yeah, okay, maybe maybe she'sgonna try Yeah, and I will.
I'm going to drop the link foryour the legal side of this into
the chats so that people can youlook at this if they want. Eugene
Volk, you know, is avery prestigious law professor, sir, you

(41:00):
know, he's extremely he's a he'slike one of those kid geniuses. And
our our case was actually not madecase law until he requested it from the
appeals court. He specifically wrote thembecause my attorney calls me when he did,
and he said, there's you know, there's a lot of cases when
we talk about free speech. Andwhen you know Aaron Kaplan and him,

(41:22):
Aaron Kaplan's from the other two andthey work a lot, they work very
closely. And him and Aaron bothreached out to the courts and said we
want this case published. This isintense, and this is you know,
I mean, they didn't use theword intense, but they wanted it published.
I actually sent an email to Eugenethanking him, and you know,
he said, you're welcome, andI'm glad you're okay and all the stuff,

(41:44):
and you know, it's honestly ashard as it was. I'm yeah,
I have it linked here where peoplecan take a look. Yeah,
it's a great art the articles inthere, but essentially, um, you
know, we're I don't. Ididn't want to jump in this too much
to ahead, but I just wantedto share it with people so that they
could um and and read sort ofmore in detail. But but so at

(42:07):
that point it becomes litigious. Right, you've been served with paper, you're
you've now there's a restraining order,and I think the other thing that's kind
of very malicious. It was almostimmediate, and again I'm just kind of
piecing together up from what I've readit. It was almost immediate that she
started back channeling the comedy scene andsaying, hey, I have this restraining

(42:29):
order, sort of like, let'snot even see how the courts decide on
this, just so you know,this has been legal action taken, and
so Julia should be shut down fromeverything correct, Yes, yes, yes,
sir, which is kind of what'swhat you're seeing with people like Chris
d'lie. It's like we're not evenwaiting to see if the guy is innocent
or if he's even going to becharged with an actual crime. Everyone's just

(42:49):
going like shut him down. Hisagents dropped him, everybody dropped him.
You know. It's sort of likethis really guilty to prove an innocent thing.
And even then it's almost like,let's say Delia comes out and proves
his innocence. Look at Chris Hardwickas an example. Chris Hardwick came out
with the receipts, completely proved hisinnocence and in a lot of ways is
still personna on grata in the Hollywoodindustry, in the community scene. Ye

(43:12):
like, it's almost like you nomatter how, I don't care. Yeah,
It's like, even if you proveyour innocence beyond a shadow of a
doubt or win in court like youdid and got a verdict overturned, it's
which is so hard, you know, you know that it's they will their
narrative became And I really want toshare this with you because yeah, they're
well, so I'll tell so letme tell you, and then what I'll

(43:35):
tell you, because their narrative isthey still don't believe that I that I
won because I was right. Theybelieve that my parents are wealthy people and
hired fancy attorneys and got me off. And it's like how it works,
like do you know anything about thelaw. You're right about the court systems?
Ever, do you know last thing? The last thing a judges And

(43:58):
it's like that might have worked onthe front end of a case or something,
but right like what she did,a judge is often not going to
go back and say that they werewrong, which is why are when we
did the not the appeal, butwe did emotion to reconsider. We did.
We did emotion to recons I wentthrough a couple lawyers in this,
and I also tried to get herserved. Well we'll get to it.

(44:21):
But so I get served, I'mlegally I have to appear in court.
So I call my parents, Icall my friends who are attorneys, and
everyone's like, did anything happen.I'm like no. They're like, okay,
well then you're going to go tocourt and the judge is going to
dismiss it. I'm like, areyou sure, do I need to get
an attorney? They're like no,all all it says here is that there
was a blow to the head intwenty and fifteen, which sounds like she

(44:44):
watched Ted Bundy's movie and literally tookit from that. There was never a
blow to the head. I don'tbeat people that i'm with. I've never
been charged of anything. I've neverbeen accused of anything. She only came
out and did this after the Facebookpost. It's ridiculous. So and then
she hauled contacted one of my exes. I did want to bring this up.
She contacted an ex of mine whoI also had to leave because she

(45:06):
had I believe, not just borderlinepersonality disorder, but I believe that she
was a sociopath. And you know, I take responsibility for being with people
who are ill. I tend tobe a caretaker. And when people are
like, why would you date crazy, It's like I'm sometimes I'm sometimes like
I'm too I'm a little too compassionate. Sometimes I'm a little too naive.

(45:27):
Like these are things that I'm workingon. But I'm not ashamed to say
that I've made mistakes by dating sickpeople. You know, I can't shame
myself for that. And I feellike they kind of want me to in
a way, but oh yeah,so Jen reaches out to this I don't
care. I don't care that Isaid her name. You can believe it
out if you need to. Butit's in the article too, right,
I mean it's there, and mylawyer, my lawyer, it's my lawyers,

(45:50):
like it's freedom of speech, sonow I can talk about it.
So so Jen reaches out to thisother woman in Washington, right, So
Julia has two accusers. No,Julia does not. I have tons of
receipts from doctors, therapists and thiswoman who called me an abuser and said
I was mentally unstable or whatever shewrote for Jen to bring to this judge
of her being extremely abusive to me. And I literally moved from Washington State

(46:15):
down to la Um and I have, like I said, receipts out the
and not texting because you can faketext. Now I've got emails to her
doctors saying I am abusive to thiswoman, please help me. I'm borderline
personality. Like I have all thereceipts, so it's all there. So
there was never any abuse, Sothat's cleared um. So, but but

(46:37):
in my head, you know,at this point, I've got to,
like you said, I've got toI've got a what they call as a
temporary restraining order. So here Iam. I start losing weight rapidly.
I'm dating, I'm dating someone,I'm living with someone. Our relationship ship
starts to get turbulent. She seesme not eating. I'm starting to not
even be able to function at work. Um, this is the thing about

(46:59):
like the racketeering aspect of a cancelationis because you feel it in everything you're
doing, everywhere you go. It'slike, you know, what people don't
understand is like it lives on foreverin everything you ever attempt to do.
There's no climbing out of it.Like every time a company looks at my
resume, every time a club looksat me as a potential person to book,

(47:23):
that they have to reconcile. Andsometimes it boils down to like the
fate of my career and livelihood andthe partnerships I get to, you know,
facilitate the people I get to workwith oftentimes depends on how willing they
are to read all of it andhow much they're willing to look, because
it's very easy for people to justto look at headlines and go woman involved

(47:45):
in domestic violence case and they're justdone. I just go no, I'm
out. I don't care about thecontext. I don't care who's right or
wrong. I'll just move on tothe next person, who, by the
way, has nothing about them everwritten, which you could argue is worse
in the world of entertainment and promotion, right, would you rather have somebody
who's controversial or somebody who's never saidanything worth recording ever? Right? So,

(48:12):
but I won't. Yeah, Imean, so you know, it's
like it's like, you know,I didn't get into this fucking thing to
be clean as a whistle and anduh, you know, to to be
um, you know, lauded forhow not rocking the boat I was,
you know, how acceptable. Ididn't get into comedy to be an appropriate
human being, right right, youknow? And so this this idea that

(48:36):
like, you know that a fuckingheroin addict who's never tweeted the wrong thing
is a more viable employment option thanme, who has some dicey opinions.
Let's say, um, I agreewith you, as I just think that
that our our society is backwards.And again it goes back to the mentally
ill. And you know, Iknow people you know use this word a

(48:59):
lot. But again, I Ialmost became a forensic psychologist, and there
was a reason I liked. Istill like studying people like Bundy. Some
people may think that that's odd.For me, it's calming because I'm using
the left side of my brain.You know, women were always in our
not always, but a lot.We're in our right, we're in our
motion mind, we're thinking, we'refeeling. And so when I would study

(49:19):
psychology, and when I still studyit independently, I listened to Jordan Peterson
consistently. I haven't like done histwelve Steps to Life or whatever, but
I listened to him quite often.My father I also listened to, and
he's a big Jordan Peterson fan.I also just love podcasts about psychology.
I love. I mean, Iwill never lose my love for that,

(49:44):
even though I didn't, you know, become one. I think that'll always
be in me. And I thinkthat's kind of how I always approach things
as from that kind of psychological lens. So we'll fast forward back to the
story. So I start losing weight. I know this trial is coming up.
I have to see a judge.I've never you had to really deal
with this before I'm freaking out.I'm going I know I didn't do anything

(50:04):
wrong, but am I going tobe okay? So we get there,
We get to the day and she'sthere and she's brought a friend and she's
shuffling her papers and she looks insane. Oops, that's a judgmental word.
I shouldn't use it, but shejust did. And she looked angry,
you know, she looked like,why did you post this about me?
Like it made sense in my headagain from a psychological perspective, that she
just wanted to take it down,And that's exactly what she wrote in the

(50:27):
order. When the judge and thejudge aster, he's like, look if
miss Pell's beach in twenty fifteen orwhatever you're claiming, why am I hearing
about this now? And she literallysays in the text because of the Facebook
post, And it's like, ohmy god, Like so, yeah,
so I didn't think it was aproblem until I decided it was a problem.
It's sort of like this new worldwe live in where you can have

(50:51):
this revisionist perspective of rape, like, oh no, I can sent it
in twenty eleven when it happened butnow in twenty nineteen, I don't think
I can sent it. So it'snow rape. That's like like I gave
you money, Like you asked forten dollars, right, and so I
said, sure, Josh, here'sten dollars. And then a year later
I said, he's a thief.Yeah, well no, you gave him
the fucking ten dollars. He's nota thief. You gave it to him.
What exactly exactly I mean? Idon't again, I again, I

(51:15):
don't know if I said this before, but I've never been raped by a
man. I've never, you know. I look, if a man touches
me off, I'll twist this fuckinghand or is dick and it'll be not
a thing. I mean, Idon't have a problem asserting myself with men.
I don't, and in fact,I enjoy Again, I go back
to this. I enjoy the company, even you know, gnarly whiskey drinking.

(51:37):
You know I'm down, I'm downto hang. I love the way
men think. I love the simplicity. I can spit hawkers and not get
judged for it. We don't haveto talk about shopping, you know,
I get it. I look,extreme people are like, but you're so
girly, and it's like, yes, but we can still have fluidity.
We can present femininely and feel certainenergy on the inside, and we don't
have to label it. We don'thave to put pronouns on everything and figure

(52:00):
out it's just more divisive bullshit.Excuse me and my humblest of No.
I totally agree. I totally agree. I feel like I'm on my Ted
talks, right, Yeah, that'sokay. But anyway, so I go
to the judge, we go,we go to court, right, because
what am I going to do?So I go to court and I'm there
in my suit, and she's thereand we're there, and you know,
we're there, and and basically whatthe judge said, because you know,

(52:22):
she presented the evidence, which washer word statement from an ex girlfriend.
Again that's not evidentiary support. Andyou know, there was no again,
no evident not even a mean textfrom me like when we dated back,
like fuck you bitch. Nothing,not an email, nothing, I mean,
if she come on produce something ofa lie, there was nothing.

(52:44):
Yeah, And and so I saidto the judge and here's here's what I
did wrong. My Dad's like youweren't a victim enough. This is a
very democratic judge. He was notput into his position at the time.
He was a commissioner. And whata commissioner is. For any one who
doesn't know, I'll just tell youvery quickly. He's not a judge.
So when he made this judgment,he was not even a judge. A

(53:06):
commissioner is a lawyer who's appointed tosit in for a judge when there are
too many things, too many casesbeing had, and there's not enough judges
to go around. So bloncart thatis his name, his last name,
Blancart, was a commissioner at thetime. He was not a judge when
he made this decision. I saidto him, your honor, I know

(53:28):
how to address people in court.I didn't say that, but I'm telling
you so, I said, yourhonor, I said, I understand.
You know. Miss Kurcio was upsetabout the whatever. I was like,
but this isn't support. I waslike, this is the court's being manipulated
by a mentally ill person. Isliterally what I said. He didn't like
that too much, and so thenhe's like, so you think I can

(53:49):
be easily manipulated? And then itwas like, you know, his ego.
So he sort of took what I'msure was presented as like you gaslight
as an insult to his intelligence,right, So it was a double hit.
If he's a very progressive person,he's thinking, not only are you
gas like this woman, but you'recalling me stupid in the process. Sure

(54:12):
that might have knocked in your benefit. Sure, And I was just a
little too smart for him. Imean, I you know, he I
think he couldn't figure out who wasthe bigger victim. We were both kind
of the same size. I mean, I've always been smaller than her in
terms of weight, but we're kindof the same height, we're both blonds,
we're both white, Like, who'sthe bigger victim? They're right,

(54:34):
how does he decipher it? Oppression? Stalemate? Well, what he should
have done is followed the law,right, which we all hope they do,
but they don't often. But hedidn't. He didn't. And basically
what he told me is that Ineeded to prove myself innocent. If anyone
goes in and you want to readthe case, Um, that's what he

(54:55):
said. He said, I said, your honor. Look, I'm not
a judge. I'm not a law, I said, but I know the
law. And he looked at meand I'll never forget this moment. I'll
never forget this moment, he said, and he kind of leaned in when
he did it, you know howthey can lean into them. And he
goes, well, I am thelaw today, and I knew in that
moment. You know a judge sayingI am the law today. If you

(55:19):
want to talk about abuse, you'relike, you knew you were fucked at
that point, nailed it exactly.I knew that that that there was going
to be a permanent restraining order againstme, and I knew my career was
fucked in that moment. I knewbecause I knew how sick she is and
I knew what she was going todo with that piece of paper, If
that makes I've had moments like thatin depositions, Like none of my cases

(55:39):
that I've fought have ever gone tothe courtroom, but I've done a lot
of depositions, and I've had momentslike that in a deposition where I actually
can recall the specific law better thanthe lawyer can, because the lawyer,
the lawyers who have defended the peopleI've sued are employment law lawyers. They're
not necessarily institutional lawyers. They're notFirst Amendment lawyers, they're not free speech

(56:04):
lawyers. They're also not civil rightslawyers, which you would think you kind
of have to be to be anemployment law But what's so interesting is,
with all of my years of sortof dealing with employment law from the corporate
side, I actually knew a lotmore about the civil rights side of employment
law than a lot of employment lawyersknow. And so there would be times
where in a deposition I would literallyhave opposing counsel try to draw up,

(56:29):
you know, some sort of legalitythat didn't apply in the state we were
talking about, and I was literallynot the law in California, that the
law California is different than that.And I had to know that because I
was hiring and firing people in California. That person was a lawyer from another
state who didn't know that the lawin California was different than where they were

(56:50):
from in Chicago. So it wasso interesting to me that, you know,
they literally and in those moments Icould definitely feel probably similar to what
you felt. I could feel thatI then became enemy number one of that
lawyer. Forget about the case.Yeah, I knew exactly. I was
like, okay, he's the lawtoday. Yeah, this will not be

(57:13):
your day today. So anyway,that case doesn't go your way. You,
So that doesn't so I lose.So I get the I shouldn't say
I lose, right, And it'snot and it's not a criminal order.
It is a civil order, butit is viewed but it is viewed okay
by most people employers. Um,you can't buy a gun if you ever

(57:34):
want children, your spouse was alwaysgoing to get them over you. It's
viewed as violent because it's a domesticviolence. Yeah. It's an interesting way
to circumvent the law in that it'salmost like receiving the consequences of a criminal
conviction without a criminal trial and ajurrect correct. Yeah, it's it's it's

(57:55):
like it's like real litigious cancel culturein a way. Yeah. Yeah,
it was. Um, well,at that point I was I was scared
to death, and I called myparents and said here's what I did,
here's what happened. And you know, my parents are all about me taking

(58:15):
responsibility. I come from a veryum good home, just in the in
the sense of you know, it'snever going to be one of those like
not my kid. You know.You see those and you're like, how
did you not see that your sonkilled your daughter? And lie? You
know, but remember when I wastwisting the head off of chickens and the

(58:37):
coop when he was four, Wellthat should have been a sign, right,
right, those parent you know,but you know my I mean just
thought we just thought kids are weirdwith animals, Yeah, not that weird.
Why was his head in a Masonjar Liken? Right? But I
mean my my mom was I thinkmore afraid. My dad was more logical,

(58:58):
like, okay, what can wedo? And that's when we hired
a lawyer who was recommended by afriend. This wasn't my attorney for the
appeal. This was just the motionto reconsider, which means you go to
the judge and say, here's newevidence or more evidence, please reconsider your
decision, which no judge ever overturnsit. But I did find out later

(59:23):
that for the appeal process, itlooks very good because you tried everything you
could to turn it around. Right. So, even though we didn't win
that so we did go in,which just means we went in and we
had to see her again, whichis annoying, but it is what it
is. It's retaliation. Like peopledon't people don't understand that retaliation is ugly.

(59:44):
And when you tell the truth sometimespeople, you know, people,
people have this narrative of a retaliation, like a girl comes out about a
rape and then her man, theman comes back and beats her. That's
not just the only retaliation. Womenretaliate all the time. I don't know
what narrative y'all keep playing in yourminds. But if you look up the
statistics and you do your research,you will find that women are just as

(01:00:07):
violent and have, you know,just as many issues as and I don't
mean in the same ways, butthere's psychological manipulations and emotional manipulations and abuses,
and we literally just have muted itout almost of our culture. It's
like it doesn't exist. Every womanis like a fairy princess on a boat
drinking a margarita and they're fine.I don't get it. I just didn't

(01:00:30):
understand. I don't understand it right, right, So my dad says,
you know, after we lost themotion to reconsider, we went through a
few law firms. I tried toget a restraining order against her because she
would not stop running her mouth.And I mean it wasn't just I didn't
want to shut her up. Ijust wanted the chaos to stop it.
And it wouldn't just. I meanshe called. I mean I was getting

(01:00:52):
dropped from Facebook groups without like peoplewere blocking me. I was getting letters
from theaters. I mean, itwas, it was. It's an indescribable
word. I know that. I'msure there's a lot of menu you know,
that have felt this way, thathave been falsely accused of something for
whatever reason the woman has behind it. It is very real. It does

(01:01:15):
happen, and it doesn't matter whyit happens, it does happen. Well,
I also don't think we do agood enough job of like pointing out
the fact that most of the actualmobilized forms of this cancel culture, it's
fucking women. It's not men.It's not men calling your job, it's
not men going to HR. It'snot men. So when women talk about

(01:01:36):
like we're tough, we can handleit, we want to be in the
workplace, then stop fucking tattling toget your way all the time. Like
when I was perfect example, whenI was canceled in twenty eighteen, right
I said a joke or not?Was? Yeah, So I made I
made a tweet about race, basicallyhighlighting how openly accepted it is to be

(01:01:57):
racist towards white people in society today. Is that which you canceled? Yeah,
essentially, Yeah, and it wasyou know, I said it in
a hyperbolic way. I said,straight white males become the centuries n word.
And you know, it's interesting becausethe word is continuously used the same
way, and the open, sortof chummy way that people are openly racist

(01:02:20):
towards white people, specifically heterosexual whitemen has only gone even further down the
line than when I called it outin twenty eighteen. What's interesting then,
is so what everybody said at thetime was well, if he thinks this,
he's obviously racist. So then theywent back and started doxing all of
my old racial jokes, sex jokes, gay jokes and said, look,

(01:02:45):
he's homophobic, he's racist, he'severything else. So that happens, and
a female employee at the West SideComedy Theater calls the owners and goes,
I'm uncomfortable with this now. Ihad run a show there called The Darkest
Hour for four years at that point, twenty fourteen to twenty eighteen, I

(01:03:06):
ran a show there that was inAnything Goes comedy show, and by the
way, every lineup had people ofcolor, every lineup had women, so
it wasn't like some white supremacy hour. And the owners of the club often
performed on that show and watched medo every fucking joke I put on Twitter,
live and in person to audiences,usually with a good response. Right.

(01:03:29):
Never once did I have to getwalked out of that club because somebody
thought I was racist. I neverhad. They never had to show down,
nothing like that. Right, Butthey literally call me and go,
we're canceling the show, and Igo why, and they go, you
know, we just want to promotean environment that's diverse and inclusive of everybody,
And I go, what about me? Or my show has ever not

(01:03:51):
been diverse and inclusive of everybody?And rather than even answer that, it
was almost like their lawyer was onthe phone with Chris Gorbos I'll say his
name with you know what, Iam an issue with him too. At
the same it was almost like theywere on the vone and we had he
just kept repeating over and over again. We want a club that's diverse and
inclusive. We want to club.And I go, Chris, are you're

(01:04:13):
not even gonna have a fucking adultconversation with me about this? Like,
so, what you're telling me isthat there really is no reason other than
the fact that somebody at your clubcomplained to you and if you don't do
something, you're worried about legal repercussionsfrom this woman. But the reality is
is again, this is where businessis bone, and they don't know the

(01:04:34):
law. She can't sue the businessfor allowing me a public forum to perform.
She can sue me if she thinkssomething I say is infringing on her
rights or whatever, but she literallycannot sue the business. They're they're more
worried about popularity. I don't thinkthey're actually worried about anything legal. ID

(01:04:56):
So they ca the show and bannedme for the club by the way,
and so I went on basically wenton Facebook and was like, Okay,
so after four years our show gotcanceled. By the way, they never
fucking paid us for our show.We had an agreement in principle where we
were supposed to get paid a setamount of money for every show, and
more than that if we sold acertain amount of tickets. And never once

(01:05:18):
did they ever pay me for thatshow. They paid me Sean before he
left. Not to discredit Sean,Sean paid me for the shows we did
before he left west Side Comedy Theater. Chris and Mike and all the other
guys at west Side never fucking paidme for three years for doing that show.

(01:05:38):
And I never asked for money becausewe'd have a show up and it
would be really good, we hada show down and it would be kind
of shitty. But they never gaveme a hard time about numbers. So
I thought, when we get thisshow built to the point where it is
doing consistent, strong numbers, thenwe'll all come to the table and we'll
talk about what it's worth and howmuch money I should get paid. I'll

(01:05:59):
wait until we get to a pointwhere I deserve, where I feel like
I deserve to ask for money.So I only bring that up to say,
like, you took advantage of mykindness for three fucking years. I
never asked for a dollar. Iworked for you for free, and now
you're gonna cut my show and banme from your club because some fucking intern

(01:06:21):
that you also don't pay who's gota pussy doesn't feel comfortable with my material?
Bless you so. And it's justby the way you think that's going
to make the relationship between men andwomen in the comedy scene better. Fuck
that noise. Yeah, I'm notparticularly fond of mister Grobos. I actually

(01:06:45):
had to have a nice little conversationwith him and his lawyer at the same
time, with my lawyer on thephone as well, because he was going
to cancel Killer Unicorns because he saida bunch of women. I'm like,
what bunch of women? Whitney Cummingswas it? Whitney Cummings, Like,
what were these important women? Whatwomen? Who are you talking about?
The evil witches who sit behind theircomputers and don't have a life. You're

(01:07:08):
going to cancel my show, Myshow that brings I don't know fifty people
under your fucking venue. You're goingto cancel that, mister Growbos. No,
you're not. And you know what, the show didn't get canceled,
But he treated me like absolute shitafter that. No, during the show,
he was so incredibly rude to me. I don't mind blasting him at
all, and I don't do this, but he was I've never I'll keep

(01:07:30):
it professional, but I've never beentreated with such disrespect from anyone, like
an owner Chris Growbros. I don'teven know how to pronounce it. I
was so angry whatever Grobos Globos growHe is not a professional individual. I
mean he was so rude. Hethrew a check at me. He took

(01:07:51):
a check and physically threw it andwas like thanks for the show. He
was so angry and like he wasvery aggressive, Like he made me feel
physically uncomfortable when we did the show, which he agreed you with his lawyer.
His lawyers like, dude, youcan't not have this show because three
women that you don't know called andsaid Julia as a credit, like this,

(01:08:13):
this isn't an appeals court. Likehis lawyer had to break it down
to him, like he was mentallyhandy, like hello, yeah it was,
and to be honest, like,and the funny thing is is people
are like, well, if youthink what they did is illegal, then
sue them. It's like they don'thave any money, right if I win
a judgment against them. If Iwin a judgment against them, they're going
to file bankruptcy and it's going toclose that venue down, and regardless of

(01:08:38):
whether or not I'm in the right, then I'll be hated by every comedy
right because there's one less venue inthe city. Right. I'm not trying
to unlike these fucking cunts. I'mnot trying to ruin comedy for comedians.
Hello, okay, I love youso so as much as I disagree with
that concept, it's like, that'sfine. I don't I don't need to

(01:09:00):
do my show there. I tookit to the Ice House and sold it
the fuck out because it's a betterclub, and so you know, it's
a much better club. I loveit. Yeah, yeah, and then
and then everything close, and theneverything closed like to right, right.
Well, I mean I had justI mean, there were a few really
nice people, but in general,they've treated I've never been treated like garbage.
And it was it was like whenI walked in there, I mean

(01:09:24):
it was almost like he had toldthe entire staff to treat me like shit.
I was in shock, um,but I kept a professional. We
packed the house, I mean packed, and I think it was a sold
out show, and we had incredibleyou know, we had an incredible lineup.
We always listen. I don't havedelusions of grandeur about our show.

(01:09:44):
We had nights where we had fivepeople in the audience, but we had
nights. We had nights where wesold the fucker out too. That's normal.
Yeah, have the ups and thedowns. I mean Killer Unicorns again,
that's the show I produce, ofanyone when, which has been going
since twenty sixteen. Um, youknow, had ups and downs too,
depending on the venue, you knowwhat I mean. We were at Nerd
Melt and Nerd Melt, Let's behonest, was the krum Della Crumb of
indie stuff for a while till yeah, and we were there, you know,

(01:10:09):
and we had best selling and wehad it, you know, we
had all the people and you know, we had great names. But it
was, you know, things changed. It became The Ruby, which I'd
never cared for, um, youknow, and then the Ruby obviously believed
Jen because she was working for something. They were doing some internship. I
don't know. There was always somebizarre, creepy, quirky thing she had

(01:10:32):
connected with that venue. I didn'tmuch care for the venue because I felt
it was kind of a divisive anda what do you mean, it's a
place for gay comedian. Why can'twe just be comedians? We're fucking human
being right well, And also likeby nature of what comedy is bizarre.
Everybody, everybody's got some shit goingon that makes right? Why are we

(01:10:55):
right? Why they we are agay comedian, your old female comedian.
No I'm not. Don't even callme a female comedian. I'm a motherfucking
comedian. That's the problem with these That's the problem I have with the
segregation of lineups that's happening now inthe name of laguness. Is like,
you know, what's her name,Marcella Aguilo has a show on Wednesday nights.
That's like, uh, Wednesday,Yeah, women crush Wednesday. Yeah.

(01:11:17):
And she was like, we'll neverhave a man on this show ever.
And I go like, that's that'snot a feather in your cap.
Like, the best shows I've everbeen on are ones that are the actual
line of the show is super diverseand different. And I don't mean diverse
in terms of like just color orgender. I mean diverse in that you
got a guy does impressions, yougot a super dark one liner comic,

(01:11:39):
you got somebody who's a storyteller,you've got, like those shows are just
better shows. Look out some ofour lineups. I think you would like
some of them were just great becausewe have those different kinds that like we
had you know what one of thegirls, Um, she was on a
TV show, but she was agreat storyteller at Brittany. She's blonde,
what was her last name is?Is terrible, she's like a famous person.

(01:12:00):
But it's just I produced so manyshows that it leaves my head.
But she was a great story Imean, she was phenomenal to watch and
I and I even tried to youknow, instead of it just being comedian
comedian comedian, I like to putin some storytellers here and there, you
know, so people would get tohave a different taste of stuff. Well,
we tried to do that with TheDarkest Hour as well, where we

(01:12:21):
would have people that weren't comedians comein and you know, like a super
dark story that like influenced their careerand I love that, which which eventually
became this podcast. So oh wow. Um you know that this podcast started
from the live show of saying wewant to have anything goes and then I
said, well, I also wantpeople to tell like dark personal stories and

(01:12:43):
then you know, it just sortof became this thing of like almost like
a behind the joke in some cases. The first episode of this podcast was
comedian Jen murray Um talking about heryou know, her father committing suicide and
how it led to she has agreat like five minute bid on it and
hearing wanting to hear the story ofthe actual events and how it led to

(01:13:05):
making a joke about it and howyou get how you get to that point
as a comedian of taking something thatwould maybe crush another person and finding a
way to laugh at it. So, you know, which is kind of
cool about this conversation because it's heavyand we're talking about heavy shit and legal
shit. But you know, forthe most part, you can tell you
still have a pretty good sense ofhumor about everything. Yeah, yeah,

(01:13:25):
I mean, and then so weI do you know, I do.
Now, I'll be honest, Iagree with what you're saying and probably about
to say it's like I just beforeyou say, I want to say same
for me. When I was goingthrough it, I literally was like on
the verge of suicide because you feellike you're surrounded on all sides. You

(01:13:46):
literally feel the walls closing in andyou go, what the fuck am I
ever going to do again in mylife? Like and you feel like it's
everybody. And then the best,the best advice I got in that time
was like, go out side,get off the fucking internet and interact with
other people. And the harsh,the real harsh reality. The part where

(01:14:06):
you laugh at yourself is when yougo, wait a minute, ninety nine
percent of the world doesn't even knowwho the fuck I am. I am,
so what what is this little thing? It feels like everybody but it's
not yet. I think at thetime, I remember having a lot of
like body sensations when I was goingthrough the defamation because you know, she

(01:14:28):
was running around with this piece ofpaper before we get to the appeal,
which that part's easy, but shewas just running around, you know,
because again she she was, ifyou look at it from a psychological standpoint,
clearly very angry that I told thetruth, that I made this post
and she was lucky enough to hookup with a mentally ill commissioner. He
wasn't a judge, he was hehimself, like I am the law today,

(01:14:51):
that's no such thing. It's thelaw and not the law. What
do you judge dread right, there'snot like, hey dude, we're not
in what is it freaking that HBOshow that like I don't know, some
king show like you're not You're notthe law. The law is the law.
So it happens though people people,you know, it's ironic that these
jen us are ironic. Maybe duplicitusis a better word. But these people

(01:15:14):
who claim, you know, tofund the police and fuck Trump and the
government, that these are the samepeople that believe this lunatic who granted her
the order. They're like, no, nope, no, oh no,
Julie won the appeal. Doesn't matterJohn had had the order in the first
place, and a word from anothergirl that she was doesn't matter, right,
doesn't matter. You guys have toyou know. The thing is is

(01:15:36):
that people just have to start usingtheir brains because what we what we ended
up doing, is we ended upfinding. So we went through some trials
and tribulations. I mean, therewere times when I was running and I'll
never forget, literally in the streets, um with my case in my hands,
like the folder, running in therain to lawyer's offices, crying.

(01:15:57):
I mean, twenty nine and wasn'tmy year. We'll just say that.
UM, you know, I Ibut I do want people to know.
You know, I got down tolike eighty eighty pounds. I didn't know
how to trust. I had tobe like my birth weight I had.
I had to be on a strongamount of sedatives. Um, you know,
fantasizing about walking into traffic, stuffI normally wouldn't do. UM started

(01:16:21):
coming to me and I started topray. And I know, and I
know that might sound odd because I'mnot personally I'm not a very religious person.
I'm more spiritual, always have beena universe energy all this, but
I started to pray. I wasliving in this random, just little teeny
tiny backhouse for March because I wasessentially homeless. I couldn't get a nannying

(01:16:45):
job because there's a domestic violence restrainingorder, so I had no money.
My parents had to pay my rent. I mean, people thought I was
okay on Instagram. I was notokay at all at that time. Well,
and that was the difficult that wasthe difficult thing with my situation.
And I still experienced this. Likepeople people look at the fact that I
had a television show, and forsome reason, there are people that just

(01:17:06):
a default in their mind go like, I'm sure he's got a couple million
bucks. No, I made ninetyI made like, what, ninety six
thousand dollars to do three seasons ofmy television. That money lasted. Yeah,
that money lasted a year and ahalf. Like it paid my bills
for a year and a half.That was it. And so when all
this shit happened, it was like, yo, I don't have other means

(01:17:30):
for income, you know, Andmore of the fallout, more of the
economic fallout, was actually in twentyit was a year after in actually twenty
nineteen, when I had decided togo back and get a corporate job,
and I had moved, I hadmoved a bunch of bills and stuff around
and said, listen, okay,as soon as I get paid my first
check from this new job, Ican get things right. And then,
you know, a year into this, I can rebound financially and get myself

(01:17:55):
set up for the future so thatthe only comedy I'm doing is stuff that
I'm producing myself. I can spendmarketing money on building my own fanbase and
just kind of do my own thingas a comedian and not really need to
like work through the industry or playthe game. And I got fired from
that job on day two because ofthe canceling from twenty eighteen and a girl
had reported to HR that she wasuncomfortable working at the company if I were

(01:18:16):
there because of what the Internet saidabout what they thought I meant prior.
So that rug got pulled out ayear later, and then that was actually
what was financially devastating, And itwas to the point where it was to
the point where I was like,fuck, we put all our eggs in
this basket, and now this basketjust got thrown over a bridge. And

(01:18:39):
so I had to do a gofund me to just get our bills paid,
to get our rent pay. LikeI don't have family members that have
the kind of money to just takecare of our bills for a month.
Yeah, I was lucky that Ihad two very good friends in the entertainment
industry who stepped up and we're like, here's some money, pay it back
when you can, you know,And you know, I just if you're

(01:19:00):
ever in a position to help somebodyelse this way, you know, I
think you would do the same thing, etc. So if it weren't for
like good relationships that I built withthem, and good relationships I've built with
fans and friends over the years thatalso stepped up and contributed a little bit
of money and aggregate got us throughthose couple of months until I could,
you know, get We had acar repossessed, so I had to go

(01:19:20):
get a new car to even beable to go uber drive or do anything
like that. So you know,it was like it was a pretty devastating
reality as a result of literally peoplenot liking something you do artistically that has
nothing to do with your job.Yeah, yeah, that's you know,

(01:19:42):
I'm so sorry that happened. AndI know people are like, it's not
your fault, and I'm in thatmoment, Like and in that moment,
you do start going through and goingwhile I have a quarter million dollar life
insurance policy on me, would itbe easier for me to kill myself and
at least take care of the peoplethat I love then it would be to
fight through this and try to figureout how to claw out of it.

(01:20:03):
And so you know, like thoseare real thoughts that people have through this
ship, and it's like, yeah, and not only do I think I
used to think that, like themedia doesn't believe in that. Not only
do I think they believe it andknow it, I think they fucking want
it. I look at what they'redoing to like a guy like Chris d'lia
right now, and I go,they want this guy to fun and kill

(01:20:26):
himself. It's really sick, andthey're trying to make him kill himself.
I don't know if he's okay.I haven't seen anything from him on social
media. I don't And by theway, I don't know this guy,
and the little bit I do knowabout him, I didn't like him.
We had some offhand interactions in passingthat you have with certain comedians where you're
just like, fuck that guy,and he's like, fuck that guy.

(01:20:46):
I don't he's a little bit ofa dick. But it's like, it's
fucking crazy. We live in atime where somebody like me, who doesn't
care for Chris d'allia at all,has to go, this is fun up
and you're trying to make this guykill himself and it's not cool. It's
I just don't think it's okay thiswhole calling out because here's the thing,

(01:21:08):
like, you know, it's itgot so rampant, you know, some
lunatic attacked me this summer that hadnothing to do with the gen thing,
but decided that it was a goodidea um to defame me. Ayeah well
and then the other So this isthe other thing that people don't realize is
then what happens is people want tocome at the King And what I mean

(01:21:29):
by that is comics that are fartherdown the pecking order from you think they're
going to make a name off of. And for you, now, I'm
gonna go after Julia Pell's I'm gonnaI know what you're talking about. The
Twitter account, Yeah, the anonymousthe anonymous Twitter account that happens to mostly
talk about her ex boyfriend. Gotit. Um So but you know this,

(01:21:50):
this is cancel. These predators lastexactly and it's clearly run by a
very specific, also mentally ill femalecomedian in LA because it was her talking
about her ex. And you know, it's just like it's obvious who these
people are. But they literally thinkthat they're going to build enough social capital

(01:22:12):
um bye bye participating in this Cancelculture ship that it's somehow going to elevate
them beyond where their talent can takethem. And I would tell I would
say that that's a joke if itweren't working. It's working for them.
I think it's ridiculous. Um,the account that they made is to me,

(01:22:33):
it's funny. I'm I'm proud tobe on a on a list with
Brian Callen. I think Brian Callenis fabulous. Yeah. Good, you're
making me more famous than I am. Thank you. Yeah. I don't
know who runs the account, butit was it was THEO Manhattan now Savannah
Manhattan Transgender. We had worked togetheron Killer Unicorns, very copathetically and um

(01:23:00):
he they whatever he she they I'mnot sure. I don't follow him.
I don't know what he has orhasn't become. But he was the one
who started like the defamation with theracist text that they made up, which
again can't be proven. I'm aperson who talks about my mistakes. I've
been arrested, I talk about iton stage. I talk about a lot

(01:23:25):
of interesting thing because I wanna talkabout that a little bit. Because Yeah,
but I think it's funny when peopletry What I was gonna say is
I think it's funny when people tryto make something up about you. I've
asked so many black men for theirsperm because I want a baby that no
one's gonna believe I'm a race that, Like so many guys were like,

(01:23:45):
yeah, we maybe could believe this, But Julia's asked for our sperm like
eight hundred times, you know whatI mean, Like if I was like
genuinely racist, not that someone couldn'twant a black man's sperm and still be
racist. I guess they could,But like, why when I go out
of my way to flirt with blackcomedians, which I know, I know,
you know what, I'm known spermnot known for its flavor, right,

(01:24:09):
Like by the way, no,I've literally I mean, and that's
that might sound weird, but it'sit's one of those things where it's like,
look, if you're going to makesomething up, make sure it could
kind of be true. Yeah,I've never been racially off. And by
the way, if there's one blackperson in this chat right now who's watching
this episode, you're about to getfive hundred direct messages a girl you need

(01:24:33):
to sperm. I got you.But what I was gonna say about that
is the thing that bothers me themost about this is I feel like you
and another comic I feel like thishappened to as a young guy open micro
named Nick Romero who's a friend ofmine, and one of the unfortunate circumstances
with Nick is part of Nick's actis talking very publicly about his domestic violence,

(01:24:58):
that he had a drug problem,he had a drinking problem, and
that he and an ex girlfriend ofhis had gotten physical with each other and
things escalated and it was the biggestmistake of his life and it's what got
him clean and sober. And sohere's a guy who's trying to take again
as somebody who loves dark comedy andreal shit. Here's a guy who tried
to take this horrible thing in hislife put it into a comedy act and

(01:25:20):
talk about it. And now womenin een are using that as an excuse.
Well, obviously, if he's gota record, he's abused anyone who's
ever accused him. So anyone who'sever accused Nick is now we believe them
one hundred percent because he has ahistory as a criminal record. It's like,
are you out of your fucking mind. Meanwhile, when a guy like
George Floyd gets snuffed out and peoplego, well he had a record,

(01:25:42):
you go that doesn't matter. Thatshouldn't matter, right. You don't get
to kill a guy because he hasa record. But if it's a straight
white dude in a comedy scene whohas a domestic violence charge him, he's
fair game. He's totally fair game. You can accuse him of anything.
Everyone has to believe it. It'slike, yo, if he if this
guy was so, oh and thisis what bothers me, And it's like
you're literally taking somebody's vulnerability and weaponizingit against them. It's not like the

(01:26:08):
kid hid that he had a domesticviolence case. He talks about it,
he makes fun of himself about it, he talks about how fucked up he
was. He talks about having toget clean and sober, he's going to
meetings. And instead of being what'sthe word I'm looking for, compassionate and
really inclusive, you weaponize that vulnerable, unfortunate thing in his past against him.

(01:26:31):
Yeah, and now you're going tocall him a predatory in everything he
does. Absolutely, because you knowthat's what exactly what mental illness is.
Because if they had any faith,if they had any idea who they were,
they first of all would not goafter someone's life. You don't go,
no mentally sane person makes up aTwitter account, cancel these predators mus

(01:26:54):
by the way, anonymous to prohibitbeing sued for defamation. That's the reason,
right, they do it anonymously becausethen they can't be suit for you
know, it's called held accountable fortheir action, right Exactly. They can't
take responsibility for their actions in theirlives because they are mentally ill. And
so what they do is they projecttheir trauma onto me via Twitter. And

(01:27:17):
so that's why I don't engage inTwitter, because it's for mentally ill people.
Very true. By the way,follow me on Twitter, everybody at
Josh Denny on Twitter. It isfor mentally ill people. I love it.
I'm very good at But you canget what I'm saying, like the
fact that that there's some racist nonsenseor or canceled that I'm I'm some predator

(01:27:40):
list like I don't have a record. I look, I've been to court
more than once and my wins areone and one win and win in so
you know, I don't know.My lawyer laughs and she's like, yeah,
get online and tell them you're old. For two motherfuckers. My lawyer
is a spitfire and lover. Butit's yeah, I mean it's it's and

(01:28:01):
my lawyers have been the same way. And I've made friends with really good
ones from all this stuff too.Here. You know, ultimately, I
feel like, you know, peoplelike us are going to have to get
involved in sort of legislatively reforming theway that she's in our country. Yeah,
that needs to be taken down.I mean, I'm living. I'm
living about the Facebook, the rapist, I'm living about the there's a list

(01:28:27):
of racist comedians in New York.I'm sure I'm in it. Yeah,
I'm on it too. You know, there was a list of it was
like, here are racist comedians,and it's like, yo, you fucking
idiots. This is what bothers me. It's like before I had a TV
show, did you not Do younot understand that I started in all black
comedy clubs, that I opened forblack comics, and that black comics open
for me almost exclusively three years Iwas a comedian, Like I made my

(01:28:53):
fucking I made my career in blackcomedy clubs. If I were racist,
I don't think I would have gottenvery far. So, you know,
it's it's just insane. And whenI say gotten very far. I don't
mean like my career is huge now. I mean I don't think I would
have walked out of those places aliveif I was the white supremacist that you
write. You're claiming me to beright, and it's it's just so crazy

(01:29:16):
to me that you know, we'rein this this world now where nobody on
the outside looking in is looking atthis going well, this potentially is problematic,
like this could come, this couldcome to me, so you know,
until it does and then they go, well, wait a minute,
what about due process? It's likewhere where you didn't care? Where were
you then? Yeah, you didn'tcare about due process with here's the thing

(01:29:39):
they're going to eat their Here's thething about these groups, because this is
like gang members. Okay, thethe the women you know, making up
fake rapeists and going along with youknow, miss Curcio's nonsense or mister Manhattan's
bullshit. It's mentally ill. Andthe fact of the matter is that they're

(01:30:00):
going to come after each other andthey're going to eat each other. Yeah,
So am I worried about the peopleout there you know, who are
who are doing evil? No,because you know what ends up happening.
They end up shooting themselves in theface before I even have time to call
my lawyer to sue their ass.Yeah, it's it's very true, dumb
They're they're not there. Here's here'swhy. And let me again, I'm
going to say it from a psychologicalstandpoint. People who are mentally ill,

(01:30:24):
there's misfirings right, very impulsively geton the thing, talking to it about
and none of it's the truth.And when you're lying, your brain circuitry
is all get messed up, rightbecause you're not telling the truth. So
they're also pandering to the wrong market. And what I mean by that is
they're positioning themselves in the comedy communityto appeal to the other comedians because in

(01:30:48):
their mind, the economy of howthey get ahead is by other comedians liking
them. And the reality is thereal economy of becoming a comedian is building
your own audience and fan base.And what they don't realize is those woke
opinions that will band you together withother comedians and get you booked on comic
books, comic bookstores, shows,and other things in the local scene.

(01:31:12):
Yeah, you'll get up ten nightsa week and nobody will care and nobody
will come and nobody will buy anythingfrom you because your point of view fucking
sucks. It's not sellable, it'snot marketable funny. So yeah, you're
either not funny or more importantly indevastating comedians is a lot of them just
aren't interesting. They might be veryfunny, but we don't live in a
time where funny is enough anymore.You've got to be a funny person,

(01:31:35):
and you've got to be interesting enoughthat people want to listen to your podcast,
they want to follow you on socialmedia, they want to see what
you're up to in your day today life. Because if you don't win
in all of those things, they'rejust too many other people out there that
are good at all of it.There are funny people that are also great
on Instagram, that are also greaton Twitter, that are great in their

(01:31:55):
YouTube blogs. And if you're not, somebody who can't like Tim Dillon's a
great example. Tim is fucking interestingand funny everywhere. And people that like
Tim Dylan doesn't make a million dollarsa year on Patreon now because he's just
funny. It's because he's interesting enoughthat people follow him everywhere he goes the
people that like his show, watchhim guest on other people's shows, they

(01:32:16):
watch him on everything that he does. And I could tell you why.
I'm like, I'll tell you whypeople are so hungry for the truth right
now? Yes, and what doesTim Dylan do? Just delivers the truth
twenty four to seven. Yeah,that's it. So that's why people are
so glued because the truth is isthis woe culture is not actually the average

(01:32:41):
person's reality. This is our realityhere in Hollywood, but it's not.
And like you and I very muchcould get canceled for anything, which is
why my ship's private right now,which is why I'm not engaging very much
because it's stupid for what for meto get into some argument with a bunch
of lunatics again mentally ill people cancause or if you're me, don cheetle

(01:33:02):
but yeah, okay, you know, or or get fired, like you
know, my agents could drop mefor saying the wrong thing. It's like,
why why I've already done all that? I got to tell you,
it's I have very much a fightclub mentality now about the idea of being
dropped and people in Hollywood not workingwith me. And I mean that part
of Fight Club, where he famouslysays it's not until we lose everything that

(01:33:25):
until then that we're free to doanything. I feel like I butchered that
quote, but no, I knowwhat you're saying. The concept of hitting
hitting bottom before you can do somethingthat's really great and meaningful. Yep.
And so I feel like the hittingbottom part has already happened for me,
and now the doors are open forme to just try to do something that's
truly great or meaningful. And yeah, I don't think I've done it yet,

(01:33:46):
and I don't know what that's goingto be, but I know that
I can and I know that I'mgoing to try. Yeah, So we
decided so we can finish. Wedecided, my dad, Dad, we
decided to to listen to this onedefense attorney who I still love. He's
adorable and he's a great lawyer.He's like a super lawyer. And he

(01:34:10):
said, look, what's what's howI've read your case. What's happening is
fucked, he said, But I'ma defense like he's a trial lawyer.
He's like, I'm not an apellet. Like a pellet attorneys, they're
a specific kind of attorney. Andhe's like you to go to this woman,
reread your case shows your right goto her and I did, and

(01:34:33):
she sent me an article about Blancartbeing his one of his decisions being overturned,
literally before I even hired her,and she said, is this the
guy you're talking about? And Iforwarded it to my dad and I'm like,
okay, and my aunt it wasmy dad and my dad's sister that

(01:34:55):
funded this whole situation, which wasthe appeal, and we had a very
short amount of time to decide.So it was are we just going to
accept this or are we going tofight this? And we waited our options
as a family. We waited ouroptions individually. We thought about it,
we slept on it, We talkedto the lawyer. You know, everything

(01:35:18):
was via telephone. They couldn't affordto fly out here. You know,
everything was through the phone. Andmy dad said, Okay, you know,
your aunt and I are going toget the money together and we're going
to make payments, and you're goingto need to be strong because the only

(01:35:38):
thing I can do is get youa lawyer. You're going to You're going
to have to do the rest,yeah, which means fight, you know,
not give up, not run away, not hide, try to keep
killing unicorns going, which I wastrying to do. And mister Grobos was
so lovely to me at his wonderfultheater. You know, it's like I'd
love that you mispronounce his name andthen I might correct it. No,

(01:36:00):
it's great, Oh it was wrong. Oh perfect, No, No,
nobody doesn't deserve to have it pronouncedcorrectly. That's what I never knew it.
I never knew it. So soyou know, like my dad was
like, look, I will figureout that this shouldn't be because he My
dad's the kind of guy that's like, if you fuck up, you're gonna
rotten jail. But if you didn't, all help fight for you if I
can, if I can, Youmean, your dad's a rational person and

(01:36:26):
we get along. There's no suchthing. Yeah, oh no, we
were like besties. It's cute.Um. In fact, I'm looking at
it at a card right now thatsays happy Valentine's Data to my daughter Julia,
whom I love. My guy.Yeah, so we get the attorney
appeals take a year and a halfjust where they are, but not a

(01:36:49):
year and a half, like morelike a year. And because the covid
rs got delayed more, but it'lltake at least a year. Yeah,
and I was We went to theappeal and it was it was quite sobering,
not for me, you know,I was prepared. I had a
very good attorney. I was verywell protected. I was very much in

(01:37:11):
the right. We were in anactual, you know, normal courtroom.
I don't know if you've ever beento the other shitty Stanley mosque fucking family
courthouse, but it's a piece ofshit. An appeals court is literally I
think that's the only one in LAI haven't been to. It's a piece
of shit, but I've been toall the other ones. So the Peel's
court is beautiful. I mean,it's just huge. They not that they

(01:37:34):
had as a gabble and they comeout with the robes and you're just like,
holy fuck. I wouldn't want tobe not prepared in this. And
Cursio looked a hot mess. Shewas just the acne and the overweight.
And people could criticize this, butI'm like, the lie has caught up
to you. Physically. You didn'tlook like this when this ship started.

(01:37:57):
She literally looked like she was crumblingbefore us. So that was to me,
I'm not going to use the wordsatisfying because that's evil. But that
to me was like, okay,you know your evil is is getting the
best of you. At this point, she you know, my father kept
repeating, time is not on herside, and it wasn't. Um.
So we went ahead with the caseand we finished up, and my lawyer

(01:38:20):
you know, took me out.We went out to eat with my girlfriend
at the time. And again throughoutall of this, I have had girlfriends,
but you know, which is awhole other layer. Well it's just
funny because you know, I'm suchan abuser. But um, but so
we went out and I said,so what do you think do you think

(01:38:40):
we want? And she said,you know, I've never had a case
like this because she's used to defendingmurderers, you know, and right and
like people who you know, appealsthat's some serious business appeals and you know
percent of them get thrown out.Let alone looked at and we wont across
the board. So I mean,we I'll never forget. So so we

(01:39:02):
I'll get to my point. Soyou know, she she did help me
with the canceling for some of thestuff. Some of it you know,
like Flappers called me they were goingto pay me to do Killer Unicorns,
but they got phone calls and emailsfrom the Facebook group, you know,
the gang members saying that I wasa whatever. I don't even know.
They would not divulge to me whatwas even said. Flappers didn't ban me,

(01:39:23):
but they said they couldn't work withme and do the show because it
was going to be get paid.You know, they were going to pay
me to run my show. Itwas great show. And my lawyer would
continuously jump in and call the theatersand defend me and be like, you
don't even get it. This isan appeal. This girl's a liar.
Let me show you evident. Likeshe she she went above and beyond her

(01:39:44):
job. So by the time,you know, shit kind of stuff.
Stuff started to settle around April,April of twenty nineteen, even though the
shit hit the fan, you know, at the beginning of the year,
it started to settle, and youknow, we got through it, and
so we waited, you know,and finally I'm sitting at a coffee shop

(01:40:05):
and it was about the time whenwe'd find out about the appeal, and
my lawyer called, and you know, it says badass. That's what I
named her on my phone and Ianswered it and I said, what's up,
Susan? And she said, doyou have a minute. And I
was like, did the opinion comedown? Like, that's what it's called
the opinion, right, So Ifly out of the coffee. She's like,

(01:40:28):
it did. So I fly outof the coffee like a lunatic.
And I said tell me, justtell me, and she said, we
won on all counts. It wasit was a unanimous decision. I fell
to my knees. Literally. Itwas not drama. It was very unexpected.
I cried. She said, you'refree. It's over. You won,

(01:40:48):
You're free. You're free, You'refree, and I just it was
that moment in the Pursuit of Happinesswhen he's just clapping above his head ye,
where he's crying, and iconic scene. I mean people were stopping on
the street and staring. It waspretty epic and weird, but that was

(01:41:09):
it and sort of happiness, myfavorite Terrence Howard film. Anyway, it
got taken, you know, it'soff my record. It's like it never
happened. Um, we won.So that's that's the that's the story.
And in terms of the other thingspeople who've bammed me or shut me down
or asked me for interviews, LikeI had this indie I'm not going to

(01:41:30):
name their name. I don't likeagain, I don't love blasting people.
But they asked to do an interviewwith me, and then like turned around,
they asked me to do it twice. I wrote out the interview and
canceled it. It was just like, oh my god, just leave me
alone. Then, like why doyou guys do this? Or like people
will invite me to do their showand then cancel me. I'm like,
you're you're mentally handicapped. I don'tknow what else to say, Like,

(01:41:54):
yeah, that's the one downside ofour of our business, uh, is
that it is really comprised of alot of not professional people who don't have
their shit to get Yeah, yeah, thank you. That's kind of what
I wanted, you know. Youknow what It's like, It's it's one
thing if it's like you're being askedto do something outside of the scope of
your capabilities. Uh, you know, like if somebody's like, yeah,

(01:42:15):
go create an adset for this showand you're like, I don't know anything
about digital marketing, obviously that's different. But I'm talking about people that like,
don't respect other people's times, youknow, show up late to things,
you know, don't fucking communicate well, you know, and it's just
it's it's there is a ton ofthose people that are very you know,

(01:42:38):
um, operationally discourteous and that nevergets called out, and that never nobody
has a problem with that, butthey'll be very quick to be like,
this is what we think is appropriate. And by the way, like I
never, like I said in thebeginning of this episode, I never got
into comedy to be appropriate. Idon't think that's what comedy is for.
Why I don't think is this thingabout Yeah, it's like that's a Technomedy

(01:43:00):
is not to be politically correct.We're not therapists. Comedy is to bring
up in my in my professional opinion, I sound like Joe Biden stuttering put
up um. In my opinion,my humblest opinion, comedy is the best
way to bring up uncomfortable subjects suchas race issues, rape, defamation,

(01:43:23):
suicide, um, breakups. Theseare things that we all have in common,
and and to be able to bringit to light and to to make
it something that's funny to me.If you're good, that's a great comedian.
I don't give a shit if itmakes you uncomfortable. And you've got
to understand that. Like, ifI'm making a joke about a racist thought

(01:43:46):
that I have, right, um, I'm not making that joke on stage
in front of other people for thepurposes of gaining support for that opinion.
I'm more than likely and I wouldget I would guess anyone that's making any
of jokes that are sexist or racistor homophobic to the naked eye is making
that to relate to other people who'vehad those thoughts and to share in the

(01:44:10):
in the humiliation of that crossing yourmind, even against your better judgment or
your better predisposition. And so it'slike you're doing something to sort of unite
people over a shared experience of discomfort. For someone to stand outside of that
and go, this is objectively racistor sex or homophobic with the intention of

(01:44:31):
hurting, You've got to be fuckingretarded to think that. Frankly, like,
I don't. I've I've lost theinterest in winning those people over because
they're too stupid to be customers ofmine. You're too fucking dumb. To
participate in what I do. Endof school, we'll see. And that's
how I feel about the INNY community. Like y'all been around far and dumb.

(01:44:55):
They've been around for fifteen years,and you know what they're doing nothing?
Nothing, what you've been on TVa few times? And where's all
your money, where's all your success? It doesn't exist by because they're in
it for ego, they're in forattention, they're in for the wrong reasons.
You don't get into comedy to sootheyour fucked up ego. You go

(01:45:15):
to therapy for that. Don't getme started. I because you know what
I don't. Here's the thing.I don't do unpaid shows anymore. I
don't care that I'm not the mostuber pop. I don't unless it's for
a producer that I'm very close with, you know what I mean. Not
if it is. This is thepoint, though, If it is a
free show, I will do itfor free. If you're charging in mission,

(01:45:39):
you better be paying the people thatare actually performing. Correct, It's
very simply exactly. They're better notbe any of this. Exactly. I'm
not doing it. When I whenI did The Darkest Hour at the Ice
House, the show made a fewhundred bucks, right, and I had
like ten compounds on the list.It's great. So we subtracted the cost

(01:45:59):
of Mark getting the show out,which was like one hundred bucks, and
then we literally split the remaining moneyequally amongst all of the comedians for their
performance time. Everybody did roughly tenminutes, everybody got the same money.
It was like thirteen dollars or somethingridiculous like that. But my point is,
um, it's everyone got an equalpercentage. And I've always paid comedians

(01:46:23):
that that tour with me or whateverbased off the percentage of the show that
they perform. So if the showis a ninety minutes show and they do
thirty minutes, they get a thirdof the money. If they do twenty
minutes, they get whatever that mathis. I'm not in a position to
do math, but you know whatpoint is like and the and the host
gets whatever their percentage of time is. It's like that to me is what's
fair and economic? This idea thatcomedians are like, I'll charge and then

(01:46:45):
you'll perform for free and then youwon't get paid, but I'll make money.
What the fuck is that? Sonot to go, Yeah, it
is well, illness. It's it'ssomebody that thinks that they figured out an
angle for themselves, and that's ultimatelythat's all that cancel culture is, is
like shitty people angle for themselves exactly. I mean, here's the thing.

(01:47:12):
Anybody who has to go after someone, anybody who feels the need. And
this is why I said at thebeginning, I don't agree with the way
that I did it, because Idon't agree with going after people. But
you made a good point. Youwent to the town hall. I get
it right, and I appreciate itbecause that actually is very articulate, because
I normally don't participate in those kindsof drama, nonsensical, it's mentally ill.

(01:47:36):
Yeah, but I just think thatit is disgusting. You know,
look at Johnny Depp. I mean, yeah, I'm I'm literally I've done.
Look. Look, anybody who wantsto come after me about that,
I'll go toe to toe because Istayed up. I did the research.
I mean there was a night thatI'm not kidding you, I was up

(01:47:56):
till four. I am listening tothe depositions, watch her body language,
listening to his crazy shit, listeningto them together. I mean, do
I think he's sane, and no, he never has been completely all.
But do I think that he wasthe perpetrator in that. Absolutely not.
You'd have to be blinded by genderrole to well he's the perpetrator. And

(01:48:20):
you do realize that he's been canceledfrom everything again and she's still going.
Yeah. And by the way,she she claimed that she was going to
donate the money that he gave herin a settlement to some fuck is she
did. They proved it. Theypeople on the internet found it and they
were like, she's never made adonation in that amount to anybody, because

(01:48:41):
that amount would have had to beendeclared yeah, on the charity's tax taxes
that year, and it never was. So you know, it's it's it's
a dark reality. But you know, I mean, the thing that I'm
most happy about, it seems like, with you, is that you're continuing
to forge ahead. You're not backingdown from telling your story. And I'm

(01:49:01):
glad you took time to come onthe show and tell it tonight, because
I think it's important that people knowthat this. You know, a lot
of these times I talk about thingslike cancel culture and stuff, people go,
oh, are the straight white mennot wanting to be held accountable for
their shittiness. It's like, man, this is not just happening to straight
white Men's happening to gay women too. Man. No, And you know
what, if someone ever said tome, you know, like, you're

(01:49:24):
not are you not holding yourself?Anyone that knows me, anyone that actually
knows me knows that, I'll bethe first person to talk about my own
shit. Yeah, you know,like you say, even like being arrested
in Chicago for doing nothing, butI talk about it because that's the law,
the laws in Chicago. Whoever callsthe cops first, the other funck

(01:49:44):
gets taken in. Why it's aliability if they if they make a judgment,
call and leave and I shoot heror she shoots me, the parents
could sue, the family could sue. You lesbians are fucking wild? Oh
yeah, just you know, I'mjust riping and racing all over the place.
You know. The point is is, yeah, I mean, and
that's and that's something Again. Iwas arrested, I was dragged into court

(01:50:06):
by a lunatic. She was angry. I was fucking another girl. That's
the reality. The reality wasn't youknow they took pictures of us that night.
And you know who had the scratcheson her, not her, the
one who went to jail, me, the one who was working me.
I've got the receipts of being atnanny. I've got the receipts of her
being drunk with our neighbor because shewas an alcoholic. I have the receipts

(01:50:30):
of the cop testifying against her,saying Miss Carr looked insane and Miss Kells
was smoking a cigarette with scratches allover her arms, crying at her kitchen
table. I mean, the arrestedher. It's just my brain turned off
halfway through because it just sounds likeyou're describing Chicago to me. Well,
you know what I'm It's just likethis is this is this is Chicago.

(01:50:51):
But it happened and people, youknow, and people will deny it.
They'll be like, no, no, she's a violine. It's violent.
No, people are mentally ill.It doesn't matter if they have a vagina.
Yeah, it's so funny to me, um that. And this is
the other thing, too, isthe level of the levels that people will

(01:51:13):
go to, sort of like gaslight. You about your experiences, are the
things you've gone through. Um,yeah, it's just it's crazy, it's
crazy. Oh yeah, oh andyou know they they I think they thrive
off of making people hurt, youknow, like, um, a lot
of them like will use language likeI'm a kind cunt, and it's like,
no, you're not. You're exactlywhat you say you are. And

(01:51:38):
you and you probably know who I'mtalking about, you know, like,
you're not a kind cunt. You'reyou're malevolent. You're mentally ill and it's
not my job to take care ofyour emotional disabilities, it's yours. And
that's how I feel about those people. Yeah, there's a very good um

(01:51:59):
mentally abled literally literally, I meanthere's no other there's no other word for
women who are willing to run aroundand do this to you know, people
all the time, friends, lovers, whoever. I mean, there's girls
who had nothing to do with curseyou and I that will literally go to
bat for this woman and be like, oh yeah, Julia is a perpetrator.
It's like, you don't even knowwho I am? How dare you?

(01:52:21):
Yeah, shame on you? Wellyou know who raised you? Yeah,
and it's like it's kind of youknow again, I don't think enough
of these people get sued or heldresponsible for their shitty, wrongful accusations either.
And that's just the sad truth ofit, right, is that you
know, you can basically call peoplewhatever you want, you know, on

(01:52:43):
Twitter, on the Internet or whatever, and for the most part, there's
really no recourse. I mean,And what's going to happen though, and
this, you know, this iswhat are your thoughts because you know,
I hope this is my bold predictionof what's going to happen, is that
you know, somebody's going to getmurdered because somebody lied about them. Yeah.
Yeah, what's gonna happen is acompany like YouTube or Twitter, Facebook
is not going to get They're notgonna win on the well, we're a

(01:53:04):
platform, not a publisher, sowe're not responsible for they're they're gonna get
sued in a wrongful death case andthey're gonna get they're gonna lose everything.
Um, and keep putting that outin the universe because you know, cancel
these predators. I'd love for thatto just disappear. Well, you know,
but that's my point is that's youknow, these these people, they

(01:53:25):
go insane, they go through thiswhole cancel thing without recourse. And then
what's going to happen is they're gonnafuck up somebody's livelihood. Um, they're
going to and then that person's gonnaget they're gonna hit bottom and they're not
going to have a father or amother like or friends in the industry like
I had to have nothing, right, And they're gonna take a gun and
they're going to go into a buildingand they're gonna kill a lot of people.

(01:53:46):
Yeah, no, you're right,right, And so ultimately it's like,
you know, the Um, that'sthe sad reality is that that's what's
going to have to happen before thisgoes away. But that's gonna you're right.
No, you're right, No,you're right. And I do believe
that these things will crash out.Like Zuckerberg has been in so many I
can't stomach him by the way,he's been in so many lawsuits. At

(01:54:09):
this point, I'm just waiting forhim to croak. Facebook will die off,
Instagram will go you know. I'mnot involved in TikTok at all or
any of that shit, so I'mpretty you know. And and and in
terms of the comedy, I'm workingon a project that no one knows about,
and you're the first person that I'mtelling and it's something that is different

(01:54:34):
and people will expect. And Ihave a couple producers that are helping me
with it. They're helping me withthe marketing and the branding and all that
stuff. And so I don't knowif I'll ever make all my profiles or
any of my profiles public again.Per se. We'll see, you know,
if something really blows up and Ihave to fine um, But I

(01:54:59):
think this next project might be enoughfor building more of a fan base without
having to do it via social media, you know, and then if they
want to, like I'll make anew a new Instagram, or it doesn't
have to be you know. Idon't know. I haven't decided, but
like, I'm working on something thatI feel like has been a long time

(01:55:20):
coming and was interrupted by the defamationand now because of it has gotten even
better, if that makes sense,And I'm really excited about the project.
I've never felt better. I've I'vedefinitely pulled back from comedy, but I
knew that I needed time to healand mentally well. People know when it's
time to step back and know whenit's time to take that break and not

(01:55:43):
push and not engage. And inthis time, you know, I have
not only regained parts of myself.I mean I'm just such a better person
for it, truly, Am That'sthat's not just you know, a line.
And it's made my art, yeah, so much better. It was
so much more authentic and so much