Martin Eyerer - Building Riverside Studios, Embracing Technology, and Redefining Success on the Virtual Sessions 9/2/25

Summary

In this Virtual Sessions episode, Martin Eyerer joins host Darran Bruce from Berlin’s Riverside Studios to reflect on his journey as a producer, entrepreneur, and innovator. The conversation begins with his love for Berlin’s vibrant food scene and cultural energy, setting the stage for a deeper look into the city’s unique creative ecosystem. Martin shares the origins of Riverside Studios, which grew from a simple plan for three private studios into a thriving community of over 70 residents spanning music, film, scoring, and technology.

He explains how Riverside became a hub not just for music production but also for collaboration, masterclasses, and partnerships with institutions like NYU’s Clive Davis Institute. The latest addition, The Lab Berlin, expands into creative technology, connecting music with film, gaming, AI, and Web3 startups. Martin emphasizes that this growth wasn’t planned through traditional business models, but through curating a community of like-minded creators driven by passion rather than profit.

The discussion explores how technology continues to reshape the industry. From affordable monitors and room calibration tools to the disruptive rise of AI, Martin argues that adaptability is key. He stresses that producers no longer succeed solely through music quality but must also master branding, marketing, and building audiences. Drawing from past lessons with platforms like MySpace and Facebook, he highlights the importance of spotting trends early and embracing change rather than resisting it.

Finally, Martin shares how fitness, nutrition, and structured routines keep him balanced while running multiple businesses. He underlines that true success comes from curiosity, openness to new ideas, and maintaining mental and physical health. His reflections on Riverside and The Lab show how creative spaces can evolve into global leaders by prioritizing community, innovation, and authenticity.

Topics

0:06 - Reflections on Berlin and its food culture 2:20 - Favorite restaurant Grill Royale, currywurst, and kebabs 6:32 - Creative energy and expansion of Riverside Studios 7:39 - Concept of 27 studios and curating a diverse community 11:33 - Opening The Lab Berlin, a creative tech hub 14:15 - Advice on studio monitors and affordable setups 19:19 - Tools like Sound ID Reference for room calibration 20:50 - How AI is reshaping music and creativity 27:43 - Shifting role of record labels and audience building 33:39 - Oversaturation of releases and challenges for new artists 35:15 - Lessons from MySpace, Facebook, and spotting trends early 40:34 - Disruptions in music and parallels with software and AI 47:47 - Fitness, nutrition, and routines for balance 49:42 - Mental health, podcasts, and lifelong curiosity 53:54 - Favorite podcasts and football fandom 57:04 - Podcasts vs streaming and unique uses of each medium 58:41 - Naming The Lab Berlin and its mission 59:07 - Berlin club culture and privacy on the dancefloor 1:06:36 - Where to learn more about Riverside and The Lab

Call to Action

Discover more about Riverside Studios at riversidestudios.de and explore The Lab Berlin at thelab.berlin. Learn more about Martin’s larger projects at nlnd.com. For exclusive interviews and sessions, visit thedjsessions.com.

 

About Martin Eyerer -

 

Martin Eyerer, a luminary in the electronic music scene, has solidified his status not only through his dynamic DJ sets around the globe but also through an impressive discography of more than 250 releases on various esteemed labels. His profound influence extends beyond performance, deeply rooted in the heart of Berlin's music and creative industries.

 

As co-founder and CEO of Riverside Studios Berlin, Martin has cultivated a leading music studio and creative economy complex. Spanning 3000 sqm in the vibrant area of Berlin-Kreuzberg, this complex, with its 27 state-of-the-art studios, stands as a testament to Martin's commitment to the arts and his visionary approach to fostering creative collaboration.

 

In addition to his impactful work with Riverside Studios, Martin is the visionary founder of the renowned Kling Klong label, guiding it to over 150 releases and establishing a gold standard for innovation and quality in sound. This label has become a beacon for artists seeking a platform that truly values groundbreaking music and artistic integrity.

 

Since stepping into the role of CEO at Factory Berlin in 2018, Martin has seamlessly blended the worlds of music, technology, and startup innovation, creating a vibrant community where ideas and execution converge. His tenure there has been ch

Episode Transcript

(00:06):
Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the DJ Sessions Presents the Virtual Sessions.
I'm your host, Darran.
Right now, I'm sitting in the virtual studios on a not so sunny day here in Seattle, Washington, but that's typical for the norm.
And you know what?
Coming in halfway around the world, we have none other than Martin Eyerer from Riverside Studios in the studio, Virtual Studios, today.

(00:29):
Martin, how's it going?
Absolutely great.
I'm happy to be back here in your show.
It's been a while since we talked, so it's good to see you, man.
It has been, it's been almost about a year.
I mean, wow, a lot has happened on both ends over the course of the last year.
Super excited to talk about what you have going on over there at Riverside, next to the river.

(00:50):
I love that river.
I can't wait to get back over there.
What a wonderful time.
And thank you so much for having the DJ Sessions there at Ray of the Planet last year.
It was a phenomenal time, lifetime experience.
I can't stop talking about it.
It was just really, really awesome.
And Berlin is such a beautiful city.
My first time being there and just getting on a scooter and driving around, riding around, scooting around and going to the Brandenburg Gate and seeing everything was just phenomenal.

(01:20):
Yeah, I mean, I love the city.
I have to say, I'm not born here.
I'm born in Munich, raised in Stuttgart, South Germany.
I'm here since 13 years, and it's definitely one of my favorite cities around the whole globe, I have to say that.
You know, just in Inkling, while I was there visiting, is that a spark.
I tell everyone, like a spark, a sprinkle of dust.

(01:42):
I don't know, magic, awesome music, fairy dust popped in my head and just wanted me, I was like, I wanna move here.
It just felt so awesome, so friendly, so amazing, so much culture, even for the short amount of time I was there.
I do have to ask a question.
I was gonna ask you this later in the show, but since we're talking about Berlin, I'm just gonna jump right in.

(02:03):
Before we get to the interview is.
I mean, why not talking about Berlin?
What's that?
Why not talking about Berlin?
Yeah, no, no, I was gonna say.
I'm almost happy.
I have a podcast about Berlin.
I'm a foodie, and I went to a lot of amazing restaurants there, but what's your favorite restaurant to go to in Berlin?
That's a simple answer.
It's called Grill Royale, and they serve, as it says, steaks.

(02:25):
And it's not only they have the best steaks in the world.
They have great steaks.
It's a bit fancy, I have to say, but there's also this kind of community there.
When you go, you're really not in the fancy part.
You're more like in the kind of community part, if you're like in their family, let's say, and you meet a lot of people.

(02:47):
And so the combination of the location, on the water, and it's actually Friedrichshain.
No, it's Mitte, not sure.
That's exactly the border.
And combined with the people, they come frequently, returning clients, and the food is my favorite spot.
But there's a lot spots.
Really, Berlin was not good in food 10 years ago, 15 years ago.

(03:08):
They said in Germany, lowest rate of Michelin-star restaurants and chefs and stuff.
But in the past 15 years, I think I just lately read, it's number one in whole Germany with the density of Michelin-star restaurants, which is not the only way we want to eat, but that showcases how much the food scene developed and what's going on there.

(03:35):
The classic is, of course, the currywurst, which is a sausage.
Currywurst.
Did you eat one when you were there?
No, I didn't eat a curry.
I didn't get a chance to.
Really?
No way, man.
Darran, what's up?
Berlin's famous for that, right?
Well, I went to the Korean barbecue down the street from Riverside.
So I was standing at the end of the aisle.
Angry Chicken.
It's called Angry Chicken, yeah.
Angry Chicken, okay.
It's famous.

(03:56):
It's Korean.
Yeah, it's really good, but Berlin is really known for this kind of sausage that you call currywurst.
Curry is the Indian spice, right?
We know that, the yellow powder.
And they take the sausage, they cut it in small slices, like, I don't know, seven, eight slices, and then they cover it completely with ketchup and they put it on the curry and they serve it with fries.

(04:17):
And there is a whole religion about that from old Berliners, which, like, for real, which is the best curry here, currywurst sausage in Berlin.
The other big part which is famous is Döner Kebab.
Why that?
Because Berlin has the biggest, largest community of Turkish people outside Turkey because a lot of Turkish people moved here after the war to help build up the country.

(04:39):
And especially in Berlin, there was the largest community in Kreuzberg.
And they brought the kebab with them.
So you can eat, if you like street food, you can eat some of the best kebabs and the currywurst.
I did see some of the kebab places.
I remember seeing some of those.
They're all over.
I just, I couldn't eat too much food because I'd get too full.
But I did go to a really awesome steakhouse.

(05:00):
There's, I would call it your shopping district or your shopping mall area.
Yeah.
It was at the base of the shopping mall area.
And it must have been that everyone was on holiday right after Ray of the Planet because there was nobody out.
It was, I was amazed of having, I don't know how many people were there last year, 250, 350,000 people, but there was nobody out and about.

(05:24):
And I walked into this restaurant and there was only like five, six people in the place.
And they walked up, got me my selection of meat.
I mean, totally gave me history on it, sat me down.
I mean, it was a phenomenal meal.
But I want to go to the steakhouse, this place you're talking about next time I'm there.
And also try curry and kebabs.
Yeah, you got that.

(05:45):
You got to do that.
Awesome.
Well, enough about food.
To finish that topic, it was the second city in the world, and I think first one, San Francisco, maybe, not sure, New York.
Okay.
With a pure vegan restaurant.
So there's also, it shows that there's a big scene of everything, yeah?
You can really eat, if you're veggie or vegan, you can eat great.

(06:06):
There's even two restaurants with a star and they're pure vegan.
So there is great variety of food in Berlin if you're looking for that.
Yeah, I was trying to even just find some off the wall, back in German foods that I wouldn't get in the States.
And I don't even know what the dish was.
I just kind of looked at the menu and pointed and they said, okay, here you go.

(06:27):
You didn't ask me.
So next time you ask me.
Okay, I'll do that.
So enough about food.
Let's talk about Riverside and developments and everything you got going on.
I'm interested to find out about this creative technology hub that you just opened up under the Riverside umbrella.
I mean, it sounds like more, and oh, by the way, phenomenal studios, phenomenal location.

(06:49):
Again, once again, completely blown away by coming and visiting the studios there and seeing what was going on.
Again, your team is top-notch, awesome.
I mean, I kind of felt a little bit like royalty walking in there a little bit, like just the customer service was awesome.
The amount of talent you have going on, blown away, and not the fact that it's actually next to a river, I'm glad I mean, hence the name.

(07:11):
Yeah, you see in the background of what I mean.
Yeah, I know, I know.
Maybe you don't see it.
It's a bit far from here now, but yeah.
It was just really phenomenal.
I could feel the magic and the energy being in that place.
And I know there's people that come there that you can't talk about that are coming there to do stuff.
I just found out, I think, is Darran Epsilon still out of there?

(07:33):
Not as a resident, but from time to time, he's coming.
Okay, yeah.
Maybe I, for those of you who don't know Riverside Studios, maybe I quickly talk about the concept, what we do, right?
Because we have 27 music studios, but the concept is not that we have daily rental basis.

(07:53):
We have two of them where we do that, the big ones.
Next one of this one with the water view, that's the only studio you really can book for bigger artists who wants like the stuff that you expect, a huge console, everything, and the water view and everything.
But our concept other than that is we have the studios, we give them to people who rent them long-term and they do what they do there.

(08:16):
And we curate, of course, all factors, do we like them?
We also want to have a solid number of female producers.
So we have a really cool mix of people also showcasing some diversity also in music fields.
So we have people who are composers, film people, scoring.
We have the people who do more recording stuff.
We have mastering, mixing engineers.

(08:37):
So we have like this huge variety of all kinds through the cross the board genres and people of services they do.
And they work in their rooms, whatever they do with their clients, they get from us the infrastructure and the community and some services, but also then the add-on network.
And that's the other part that we have.
We have some event locations.
So there is masterclasses with partners.

(08:59):
We have a collaboration partnership with the New York University, the Clive Davis Institute since eight years.
We have the GEMA, which is the Rights Association in Germany.
They have a studio here.
We have the music tech industry who do frequently events with us, with our community.
So there's a lot of stuff that we do with the community of the people.

(09:19):
We are around, I think, 65 or 70 people here.
So some rooms are shared by people because some of them are on tour while the others in the studio.
So there's more or less the concept here.
And we grew in the last, we have 13 years Riverside Studios just, so we started in 2012.

(09:40):
So we grew the concept more and more.
We are in a big complex here and we don't own the whole complex, but we grew in the complex, into the complex.
We have 3000 square meters and we opened up to industry that is close to music.
And our latest baby, and that's what you were mentioning,
is that in the third and fourth floor,

(10:02):
we are just opening a curated co-working
and creative technology hub,
which is focusing on the technology side
of everything around creativity,
which is of course music,
but then we talk about film, we talk about gaming,
we talk about technologies like Web 3.0,
motion capture design, stuff like that, AI in music.

(10:23):
So we want to provide and bring people together who are in startups that have like interfaces to the music and creative fields that we're speaking about, but then we want to give mutual access and the industry.
So we're talking with Konstantin Film from Munich to work here with us.
They have a big creator section, which is about streaming and stuff like that.

(10:45):
So we provide this curated co-working space with facilities for streaming, for production, green screen room, and we do programming with events around that.
So that's what we just opened and this creative technology hub has around 600 square meters right now.

(11:06):
We have the potential we can grow next year by demand up to a double size.
And we're receiving a lot of feedback right now, first members moving in.
So I think we tapped into the right thing because, last sentence on that, what I'm doing with Neuland, we'll speak later about that, is technology around other fields from all the startup sectors.

(11:27):
And I figured why is no one doing that actually targeting creative technologies?
That's why we're doing it.
You know, combine all of what you just said there, the 27 studios, the expansion, that's exactly the magic I felt from Riverside Studios, that it was a, to me, a magical place or a hub.
But as a creative or somebody being in the industry and working with a lot of people, I probably can't tell people enough in the industry, whether they're brand new that I talked to or just, you know, kind of talking in passing about the energy I felt when I was at Riverside Studios.

(12:04):
I mean, I just, I don't know how, to me, it was a magical experience to see what you have going on there.
I would recommend anyone, I mean, I don't know if there's a bar or what you look at to, or if there's a waiting list to get studio space in there, sounds like there probably is, but, you know, to collaborate or to be a part of something like that or see something like that else pop up in other places, but I don't know if there's anything like that around the world when I saw what I was there.

(12:32):
I don't think so.
And how did we get there is, in the beginning, my two friends and partners and I just simply wanted to build three studios for ourselves.
We didn't have a business plan or anything on mind, just needed space.
So after a very intense search, I found this space here with access and view on the river, which is really well located in Kreuzberg.

(12:54):
You can see on the other side, the famous East Side Gallery, which is one of the spots in Berlin, which is the formerly border between the East and the West part.
And we had to really construct like crazy.
Like in the beginning, my partner said, you're totally out of your mind, said we wanna do that.
Okay, but I was driven by having the studios here and there was so much demand.

(13:18):
We know everyone, everyone knows us.
They ask us, hey, do you have more space?
And so we just grew and we didn't have a business case.
We just thought it would be cool to be surrounded by people we like.
And that is actually still today, one of the curation factors and we develop the business out of something we didn't do for business.
And that's why I'm saying it.
I don't know any other project that's really like what we do, because if we would have written a business plan in the first place, we would not have done it because it's not like the biggest money cash cow.

(13:48):
We make some money, it's fine, but we had to really look for this business case by developing it on the time.
And I think that is the big difference of other maybe similar projects that we were driven by a different reason.
We wanted to build a community and we achieved that.
And we still till today, I have my partners, we curate really who we want to have in that community.

(14:11):
And that is the key for everything.
You know, I rarely ever get asked.
This question's in my repertoire, in my questions.
And so I rarely get to ever ask it.
It's not a huge momentous question, but figuring since you built studios from the ground up and created Riverside Studios, I got to ask you this question.
If you could advise up and coming producers on monitor speakers, which ones would you recommend?

(14:37):
That's a super specific question.
Same question like what's your favorite restaurant?
Because, you know, it depends on so many factors.
First is what's your budget?
That's most important, right?
And I remember when I didn't have a lot of budget back, back, back in the days, I had this pair of KRK.
I don't even know how they, what are they called?

(14:59):
Rocket, I think, yeah.
They were like this, they had this pyramid form and they were really budget monitors, but they were really good because I got used to the sound.
I liked how they sounded.
It gave me a good feeling.
So of course, the more budget you have, the higher you can go and take the upper part of the shelf and all of that.
So that is the most important question.

(15:21):
And the second point is about the room because the monitors themselves are only 30% of the story without the acoustics around you.
So there is a lot to say and to research about what is a treatment, a minimum treatment that you can do without big budgets for your favorite monitors.

(15:41):
I think it doesn't need to be always the most expensive monitors.
The trick is really, you get used to how your system sounds and you have to learn that.
It is a process.
It takes some time.
There is great tools that can help you on the software side, like Sound ID, for instance, which I'm also using because still in this room, which you see, there's some stuff that you can't fix on 100% level.

(16:08):
So you can use the software that helps you really getting close to a more like neutral listening position.
And this, I don't know, it's a couple of hundred bucks, not that crazy hundreds, two, three, 400 bucks, I guess.
Not sure now.
That is a good investment in combination with the monitors that you basically, when you listen first, that you like them because that is the most, you have to have fun by listening to these monitors.

(16:32):
And I can tell you what my favorite monitors were.
I had, I have other ones now, but my favorite ones were from Dynaudio, the Air system.
And I had the Air 20 system, which I absolutely loved.
And I had it for, I don't know, 20 years maybe.
And here in this room, I'm sharing this room with my partner, my business partner, Albert, because I'm not every day anymore in music.

(16:58):
I'm doing lots of other businesses.
So it was okay for me to downsize my studio and have like a cool, sexy mobile, not really mobile, but set up, reduced actually.
Now coming from this huge studio, I had all the synths, all the gear, all the outboard, all the microphones, all the guitars to a setup, which is like a kick ass Mac computer, a huge screen, and one synthesizer only, which is a Novation Peak because I love it.

(17:24):
There's one microphone, you see it here.
And there is this audio monitors where we had to find like compromise between all of us, which we like.
And they're from Adam Audio, the big series.
And they do also the job.
They're really, really good.
Nice.
Yeah, I knew that kind of was falling into a little bit of a favorite restaurant question, but I've never got anyone, never got to ask that of anyone.

(17:45):
They're typically not in their studio when they're doing this.
So thank you for that insight.
That little tip of knowing the sound software to design your studio and dial it in was very helpful.
Hopefully it had helped some other people out there to dial in their studio sound.
The most important thing is, it's not always about the most expensive in the budget.

(18:06):
You can do so much stuff today with low budgets and get like the best out of your gear.
And I know how it is when you're starting because you asked me that question more about younger people, or maybe not so experienced, they can be even older, that it's not really, oh, wow, I need to have the craziest budget in the world.
It's really more how you treat the sound, what you do with it, how you learn, train your ears on your monitor system, your studio situation.

(18:31):
That's actually the key.
Absolutely.
And I've had a lot of people in the podcasting television.
Well, I went from broadcast television to podcasting to live streaming.
And a lot of people think, oh, I'm gonna buy all this expensive gear and my podcast is gonna be awesome.
And I'm gonna have a bunch of viewers because I spent thousands and thousands of dollars on gear.
And I'm like, why don't you, you can start out with your telephone.

(18:51):
If you want to start out with an audio podcast, just record yourself.
Or if you're just talking about your own stuff, but if you want to interview people, there are tools out there.
I mean, Zoom, you can use Zoom.
You can use tools like Restream just to start out.
But a $50 ring light can make a difference from this to this.

(19:12):
I don't know if anyone saw this.
You know what?
I have this light too, but it's off.
So maybe I should switch it on.
Well, we lost some of your.
You see I'm a sound guy, not a video guy.
We lost some of your light in the background there, but that's all good.
You're coming in great.
But I mean, just little things, like even if you want to step it up and get a microphone or a lapel mic, you don't have to get a big investment into stuff to at least start producing.

(19:33):
Oh, thanks, Martin.
Wow, yeah.
That brought in some additional light there.
Awesome.
That's exactly what you wanted?
That worked.
You know, and it does.
It's not looking so cozy, but sorry to interrupt you, Darran.
This is maybe really important.
I mentioned sound ID and the software is called Sound ID Reference.

(19:54):
And that basically is a software system that calculates.
You can have a microphone with them and then you check the sound and it measures your room and tries to zero all the frequencies that are not in line in your room.
And that compensates really a lot of when it comes to monitors.

(20:15):
So that's really my advice.
Check it out.
Sound ID Reference for those who don't know it.
And that wasn't a paid for plug, by the way.
Absolutely not.
I'm not sponsored by anyone.
Unfortunately.
Unfortunately.
Yes, we are looking for sponsors always.
So let's get back to talking a little bit about this creative technology hub and what that all entails.

(20:37):
I know there's a lot that you dropped about the studios and upbringing and the size and everything about that.
What this creative technology hub, what does that mean for Riverside as a whole?
I mean, it means a natural, it's not an extension.
I see it even as a step further in how we develop the whole business.

(20:58):
I was always driven by connection to new technologies, because I'm very, very always interested in next technologies.
Yeah, we can discuss a whole show about AI in music production, creative production.
How did you know I was coming up with next?
I did all these talks already, but there's always a good and there's a pro and a con side.

(21:19):
And I at least want to always tap into it, experience it and judge by myself, what is it about and where can be the next thing?
How does my business, and where does it go?
What are the skills that I really need to learn?
This is very important because a totally different example, when you learn now to develop software and learn coding language, I'm not sure if it's the smartest move except you're really interested in that because you can do everything with AI in the meanwhile.

(21:49):
So you need to be more able to build products and not type in the code, which means you're not replaced, but your skill is a different one.
That's the same with music for sure.
If we have seen like when I started music and that was in the 90s, actually end of the 80s, you would really need to have a clue in electrophysics because if you didn't understand that, you could just simply not create sound.

(22:11):
And even 10 years later after that or 15, you don't need to have any clue about that because software actually replaces that knowledge and you needed to have more skills in the mixing skills and others.
And today this even changed again dramatically because software and AI helps you in that.
But it shifted also like your skill set and the way how you can become successful because today you definitely need to be an expert in marketing and social media and streaming and all this kind of stuff because if you're not good in getting like outreach, you cannot sell your product or make it available for people.

(22:51):
And that's why coming back to AI and all these kind of things, it is very important to think further also for our business.
What does it mean to Riverside Studios?
But on the other hand, what are the opportunities that we create for the people that are in our network?
And especially when it comes to connecting the industry, the startups to creative people, I believe heavily in the intersection of these fields that this is something that helps us also to find our business cases and find how we can make our living because that's actually the thing, right?

(23:23):
If you wanna make your living, where does the money come from?
And it's more and more like shifting into somewhere.
And that is actually why we came up with this creative technology hub and wanted to provide access at least to people who are in new fields.
And sometimes it helps, gives you triggers, gives impulses for everything you do and shifts Riverside into maybe the next phase.

(23:51):
Yeah, that's one of the awesome things that seeing the growth and developing that, seeing the need for that is huge.
Being in the industry for so many years and watching people say, oh, I just wanna be an actor or I just wanna be a cameraman or I just wanna be a lighting designer.
And they got kind of pigeonholed into those fields or they were stuck in those fields and they didn't expand to understand maybe those are what are called blue collar or blue line jobs.

(24:20):
They didn't get into the management of things.
So when they wanted to go do their own projects, they were highly technically capable of doing what they wanted to do, but they weren't informed business-wise.
Is that something else that the creative studio will help to help educate people a little bit more on?
I know it's creative technology, but is there also a business development portion that goes with that as well?

(24:44):
I mean, we shouldn't forget, we as Riverside students, we are actually a professional environment, right?
We have partners providing as their business, like Lab 343, classes and all of that.
And we have these collaborations.
So the first thing why we did that is not just to educate people.

(25:04):
That's not 100% our mission, even though we support this kind of mission as much as we can.
But we want to provide for the professionals that work with us, everything that they can experience and judge and decide also what they not want to do.
Yeah, impossible.
I mean, still people are photographing with analog cameras and some of them are successful with that because it's exactly their case and they have clients who actually want that.

(25:30):
I personally believe people might want to have a certain demand on AI-free content, music whatsoever, if it's labeled.
So that's a different thing.
At least you need to, and that's what I said before, by yourself, check out, try out things to judge and to decide where do I want to go and what exactly is my business case because other than I'm totally off market maybe.

(25:52):
And this is something we as professionals, we can't really afford to be off market.
Yeah, it's always a constant knowing battle.
I recently just saw an interview that Paul Oakenfold did.
Kind of on one hand, he was talking about the rise of, basically the barrier entry of DJ in production has completely, I'm sure you've seen starting in the late 80s, early 90s in production, the barrier, you had to get a bunch of gear or you had to get records.

(26:24):
You had to get turntables.
You had to learn how to use those.
And then now that everyone's turntables were the same if you were a DJ, there might be some slippage.
You gotta be kind of really, like almost perfect your talent.
Whereas nowadays, and you only have your limited access to music or you had to buy a $5,000 computer or the rack mounts back then, computers were really that big in the 80s.

(26:46):
It was all analog equipment.
You had to plug in a MIDI and collect all together and all that fun stuff.
But now with the barrier entry being so small, he's like, yeah, you can get in.
But also he mentioned to embrace technology was one of his biggest points.
Dude, it's here.
So embrace it and prepare and look at what's going for the future.

(27:07):
Don't get locked off into a single mindset of saying, oh, I'm a vinyl DJ or, oh, the sync button sucks or, oh, do, do, do, do, do, do.
And not, because you're not gonna grow with the rest of the industry.
You know?
Yeah, but that's exactly the point I made, you know?
Embrace the technology.
And you could even decide that maybe this is not really what you want and then take a decision, whatever, strategically, where do you wanna go?

(27:34):
But you need to really know what is there, what is capability and where's the opportunity or not.
Absolutely.
You know, and part of the industry is obviously is producing tracks, making tracks.
But when you look at the current state of like releasing those and distributing those, what's the most important thing you think that record labels should be doing?

(27:58):
Because after I produce this, after I've created my persona, after I get out there, I need to distribute.
And yes, I can self-distribute myself if I'm an artist, but if I wanna get signed to a label, are record labels, how do you see the adjustment of that being in the industry and what they need to be doing?
And are they doing a good job with that?

(28:20):
I think the role of label has dramatically changed.
And it depends what is a label.
We have to define that.
Are you a label because you have playlists on Spotify?
Could be.
Because then you can give people outreach for their music.
Or are you a small underground-ish label where you print vinyls?

(28:44):
That has a completely different function.
And I think the expectation on a label should be set on also after you look, what are you looking for?
Because a label, when they do vinyl, they invest money in you.
And back in the days, it was more the attitude, I'm an artist, I have some great tracks.
The label wants me, needs me to make money.

(29:05):
And I think it's vice versa right now.
Because if you, I mean, if you're already a renowned artist, then it's definitely still the game.
If you're Paul Oakenfold or whoever, you have your audience, that's what I said.
If you have your audience, then the label is actually again, okay, wow, I need this artist because they have outreach.
So that's always the game.

(29:26):
Does the label have the huge outreach?
Why would the label sign me?
Because there is not really the hit anymore, right?
The hit is defined by, first you need to have outreach.
It can go viral or whatsoever, it can become a hit.
But first you need to have that audience.
And I think it has to be in a balance and you have to see what is your position.

(29:52):
So are you a newcomer and you have solid productions?
Maybe you need to invest into a label that they give you their outreach because they cannot sell anything if you have zero audience.
They give it to you.
So maybe you would even pay money for that.
And I think people would go crazy.
Like, wow, why should I pay money?
Yeah, because this label invested money in their audience and their outreach.

(30:16):
And you want to use it to become like by yourself, bigger by name and so further.
So you need to really be honest to yourself and judge that and that has to do with the expectation that you have towards the label.
So very hands-on if you have like tracks produced and you want anyone to release them.

(30:37):
You need to invest the time to research a label that fits to you and labels expect that.
I have a label, Klinklong Records, since, I don't know, 25 years.
And if people just send me demos without any personal address to, hey Martin or hey Klinklong, I check your music, that I see they invested the time really to research and took the time to check if they fit.

(31:05):
I don't even listen to it because they expect me to spend my time into someone who did music, but they even didn't do that.
And time isn't one of the most, it's the most precious thing we have, right?
And so if you are a newcomer and you think that your music is good, you should think also of a package that you provide you as an artist or how does your profiles look, your social media, do you invest enough time in that?

(31:28):
Because someone will sign you maybe and take the risk in giving you their outreach if they see potential that you grow together somewhere and you are very active in that.
And that changed also that back in those days when I was more successful or active in the business, it was the production combined with the label that gave you outreach that was like the logic that you get like your shows.

(31:53):
Now it's more like, okay, will you sell tickets because you have following and audience?
And if you were able to build that, then the music is just another marketing lEyerer that you can do it, but that is not the main thing anymore.
Exceptions are like small, certain niches in music.
And I think this is something we need to really think through because what usually when you're young, I did the same, of course, you think, okay, what are the 10 best labels?

(32:21):
Everyone plays out if we talk about DJ music now.
And I would say like, oh, wow, I wanna get signed by these 10 labels because then I'm big.
But these labels will not sign you if you have nothing to provide.
So maybe you adjust your expectations and you go to smaller labels and say, wow, I grow with this label and together we can build something.
And that's the one part of the answer.

(32:42):
And the other part is, of course, that today, if you have playlists built up, if you have your marketing channels, then this is something that you as label can provide.
But then again, you think really well who you give it to and how can you have a return and grow it by yourself?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I mean, you can really be a startup of one now and really get your stuff out there.

(33:08):
And yeah, I heard somebody say also, don't try to match what the top, this has been kind of a reoccurring thing.
Don't try to match what the Beatport top is right now because at the time you produce something, get it out there, it's gonna be gone to the next genre.
It's gonna be, or produce what you want to produce and find that niche, you know, niche and then go after those people and circle yourself around those people because that'll help you grow rather than just trying to produce what you think everyone wants.

(33:38):
It's true.
And in the same moment, even if you had the music in the right time, how do you get it to an audience?
It's impossible by the amount of music to find something if you don't have a name, an audience, or just any reason.
Why would you find the pearls in all that tons of music that is released?
And that's the disadvantage or the downside of the liberality of anyone can release.

(34:02):
That's the good thing is everyone can release music.
The downside is it's getting harder to get heard.
And that is something that changed in the past 10, 15 years dramatically.
It's one of the reasons why I'm not so excited anymore about having a professional career as a DJ because I know the logic is a different one that I don't enjoy promoting myself on social media, which is something other people do enjoy.

(34:30):
So they make a way better job than myself and they make it to the shows.
So that's like an active decision.
But the good thing is, of course, most young people are good in that and they're aware of that.
But I just want to really give that as a message that this game is not the game anymore.
You produce music and you make it just through music.
It's actually nearly impossible.
Yeah, you know, if you could go back, knowing what you know now and be your younger self, go back in time 40 years or go 50 years in the future, knowing what you know now, which way would you go on the timeline?

(35:06):
In music, I guess, relating to music, I guess I should preface that with, in regards to music production, which way would you go in the timeline?
I can't go in the future because I have no clue what it does look like.
And if I personally would really enjoy investing these 10,000s of hours, really, that is something why I changed what I did, because I started not to enjoy what I did mainly.

(35:32):
I love DJing for my life, really.
I still do it, not so much, but I do it and love it.
I love production.
I don't like social media by myself.
I don't enjoy it.
Okay, so in 50 years, I have no clue how the logic of the market is.
But 50 years back, I wasn't there 50 years back in music.
I'm 55 years, so I was five years.
If you ask me, do I want to go back in a time I was?

(35:55):
No, but I enjoyed it a lot.
I'm just always, I'm looking forward.
I live in the present, but I'm looking forward, but I try to actively decide where I go.
So I cannot really answer the question how you answer, because I would say neither nor, absolutely not, because in the future, I don't know what to expect.
In the past, I had it and I loved it, but I'd never look back and say, oh, it was so good.

(36:16):
I always try to enjoy it now and I do it, absolutely.
You know, if I were to go back in time with the knowledge I know now about everything I've done, I don't know if I would change anything.
I mean, there might be some things I would maybe accelerate, but I would be in a completely different place.
I'd be in a completely, I don't know if I'd be having this conversation with you if I went back all the way to my beginning roots of, you know, 30 years ago, of starting, of picking up a camera and the goal of going to school to get a degree to learn how to run a production company.

(36:52):
And if something would have sparked then, would I have been in the broadcast television world?
Would I have adapted into podcasting?
Would I have adapted into live streaming?
Would it have been a natural flow like I felt it has become over the years?
Or was I jumping to the next, seeing the next biggest thing for the future and looking 10 years down the road, which kind of got me, that's how it got me into live streaming in 2009 was I was at Winter Music Conference 2009 and somebody said, what if we took a DJ and stream them live over the internet?

(37:24):
And I went, what?
Nobody's gonna wanna watch a DJ live over the internet until I did one of my first productions of doing a live stream.
And the easiest portion of the show to do was streaming a DJ live.
And I said, I'm onto something here.
People for years thought I was crazy because they would say that, first they'd say, why would anyone want to watch a DJ live online?

(37:47):
And then two, what's Twitch?
People didn't even know about Twitch at the time until Pandy hit in 2020 and everybody in the world jumped online and said, oh wow, we can do this now.
I always try to stay ahead in the future, looking forward.
I mean, it's a different question.
If you would have asked me, what would you have done with the knowledge now to become more successful?

(38:11):
I dare have a definite answer because with the knowledge now, 15 years ago I would have started three playlists on Spotify and today they had 500,000 listeners and this is actually the label, for sure.
And this is something that you can try to predict if technology changes.
We have a big shift in AI.
What is the opportunity right now?

(38:31):
And that's exactly the point.
What is the opportunity right now?
How will it maybe change the market and how can I find my spot that is the same what you said, right?
If you would have known early enough to build your audience, you start early because I missed one trend.
I remember I had 100,000 fans, followers on MySpace.

(38:51):
MySpace is one of the first socials for the younger guys.
And one day a new thing came up, there was called Facebook.
I said, I don't need it, I have MySpace.
Why would I need Facebook?
Okay, that was a big mistake because if I would start it early to shift my 100,000 followers of MySpace to Facebook from day one, I think I would have ended up with half a million followers.

(39:14):
But then I was late to the party and I also just made it to 100K followers on Facebook.
But then Facebook was not the thing anymore and so further.
So this is something, of course, looking back, there is moments if you had the knowledge, yeah, you know how to make better your business.
You know, it's funny you mentioned that exact same thing happened to us when we looked at YouTube in 2005.

(39:36):
We were a broadcast television show and we're like, this is YouTube.
And in that time, YouTube was the thing of what I see TikTok being now of just people looking at the camera, this, short videos.
You couldn't go longer than 15 minutes at that time on YouTube.
So we looked at it and saying, oh, something like Netflix or Hulu is gonna come out and we're a broadcast approved show.

(39:58):
So we wanna go there and sell our series there.
And that never really happened until later on.
But podcasting, video podcasting came out with Apple releasing the video iPod and we found our calling there being placed in the front of the iTunes music store helped a little bit too in the video podcast section which garnished us, getting us up to like 300,000 downloads a week.

(40:22):
We were just completely bamboozled.
We were like, whoa, this is crazy, seeing that happen.
But now I'm a little bit more responsive when a new technology comes out because you don't know what's gonna happen.
And I learned from disruption in music one thing.
I saw twice the whole music industry completely changing with huge disruption, people going out of job.

(40:44):
And it was always the same reflection.
I was one, as I said, I'm very open to new technologies.
I was one of the first people who did mastering with a software called Triple Dat.
That was the first software where you had on the computer, you could edit tracks.
Before you had analog gear on that.
People can't imagine that right now anymore.
And then when I, for sure, and when I started, it was in the beginning of the 90s.

(41:08):
When I started to work with that, the professionals from the old days, this is like a joke, it's not professional, doesn't sound that well, it will go away, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Okay, we all know what happened.
MP3 came, Spotify came, whole industry shifted.
And I realized the thing looking into software development.

(41:28):
I said already a couple of years ago, I come from music industry.
I see AI becoming better in software programming.
You will see, it will replace all the software developers.
People laughed at me.
I said, look, that's the same reflection, reflect, I meant same reflex, as I heard from music industry, from the guys.
And you can see today, a full stack software developer right now, if you would have, if you look in their salaries, a full stack developer was six to 12 months ago, 80 to 120,000 per year.

(41:58):
They went down to 50 right now already.
And my son, one of my older sons, he's 24 now, he started three years ago, exactly going into software development with AI and all these platforms like Lovable and Tool.
Today, he works super successfully as an agency for clients and people are not laughing anymore because he's now an expert in developing software products with the help of AI tools.

(42:23):
And this is something that I learned from my personal past and I can try to predict, but I'm not always right, but if you really have your eyes open, technology is coming, what can they do?
And you can find your opportunities there.
Absolutely, no, I definitely have, I've dabbled and I'm taking some AI classes myself, just so I have a base understanding of it, where I think it was, I think China or Japan is now teaching kids, they've put in a mandate that they're teaching kids at the age of six to start using AI, just at the basics, at the basic level.

(42:59):
Makes sense.
You know, and by the time they graduate, or it would be the high school equivalency, they're graduating or going into college over there, they're gonna have a total understanding of using this as a familiar process.
And if you could go back and say, hey, here's Google, here's the internet, here's a computer, to somebody at six years old back in the mid-90s before the dot-com or right around the dot-com came, you're gonna have these kids being hyper-intelligent or comfortable using this technology.

(43:27):
And that AI world, as your son knows, just spending time in it, getting a job, that's gonna be, that is future stuff that I think should be taught at an early age and not.
You're so right, especially we in Germany are not good at that, because our school system is really old.
In a way, it is very, it has its pro sides, but the really downside is not flexible, easy.

(43:51):
Like I was just in India for a week as part of a political delegation, and we visited a lot of universities and academia and so further, and I asked one principal of one of the leading technical universities, I said, how do you deal with AI and software development, because we teach people also coding and stuff, and he said, that's not a problem for us.

(44:12):
We can change our system within six months' time.
I said, whoa, it takes Germany, I don't know, 20 years to change anything in the curriculum, you know?
And he said, yeah, we're flexible.
We react on that.
Okay, wow, that's a difference.
Yeah, the interesting thing would be to see how that integrates into a country's infrastructure through education, but also watching what's been happening online a little bit with some AI models out there spitting out the wrong information or being able to be tweaked so that they can provide certain information and exclude other information.

(44:51):
You know, who would be in control?
I don't know if there, I mean, ChatsVT is one that I use, but there's so many other systems out there, but is there gonna be a free, open, kind of Wikipedia version that is user watchdogged to make sure that something doesn't get perverted with it?

(45:12):
That was the original idea with OpenAI.
That was why Elon Musk got in a fight with Sam Altman.
Yeah, I don't know if you know the story.
OpenAI, the main idea was to have an AI where people out there can see the danger and the risks of AI, and on the other hand, you have AI that helps fighting, exactly what you say, like maybe potential other not well-trained or bad AIs, and they went too early public and with bad training data from real life, and that was actually, so maybe only AI can save us from AI.

(45:50):
It's actually what I believe, to be honest.
You're laughing.
I think it's, let's not go there right now, but that is like a heavy topic, you know?
Well, I was gonna say, it kind of, I was gonna, are we pitching a movie script right now or something, but that kind of didn't already happen in a little bit.
It's been out there, but I remember the Marvel movie when they had, was it Marvel, The Avenger?

(46:12):
No, no, come on, not in-game.
Come on, Darran, you should know this.
I'm a huge fan.
It's the one where Jarvis gets taken over.
I can't help you on Marvel.
What?
I cannot help you on Marvel.
No worries, no worries.
Basically, the two AIs kind of combat each other.
I can't, why am I not thinking of that one?
It's the one where Jarvis comes, oh, anyways.
Anyways, anyways, my only thing is, yeah, is there, I'm glad there is some watchdog organizations out there making sure that it's out there, but you know, it's gonna be interesting to see, but you're right, hopefully these education systems can adjust quickly, because there's no more learning about HTML and coding and programming.

(46:48):
It's, but you still have some schools out there that are teaching that ancient, archaic, outdated thing.
This is our program, and we're invested in this infrastructure to do that.
It's very, very interesting.
You know, speaking of sitting in front of a computer, though, and getting back to music production, you being a music production producer for so long, and working with a number of people, it sounds synonymous with sitting in front of a computer, like you're at, in your studio, creating beats, and making them, creating songs, creating tracks.

(47:20):
What do you do to stay fit?
Like, how do you, what gets you up and out of the chair to take your break, or any models or methods of advice you could give to other producers out there to say, hey, don't sit in the chair for eight hours, 10 hours, 15 hours a day.
Get up and do something.
Do you have a routine, or anything that you do, or try to, say, maintain a healthy balance of sitting in the chair and out of the chair?

(47:47):
Yeah, I mean, I do a lot of sports.
Hopefully you see it, right?
I go running a lot.
I run 200 kilometers per month, so it's four times a week, so I usually do never below 11, sometimes 15 or 20.
I am very careful with my nutrition, because when you grow older, you know, I think after, let's say, 30, it starts in the 20s that you cannot eat what you want anymore, because you used to eat, like, all the burgers and all that shit that tastes very well.

(48:22):
But the more you get, like, in this age I am, it's, you can see it, and you need to really take care of your nutrition.
Yeah, sometimes you can do this stuff, but usually, really, I plan my food.
I have always my stuff with me, which is maybe some bananas, some nuts, whatever.
Try to eat really clean, healthy, eat my eggs in the morning.

(48:45):
And, yeah, being a good balance, do nearly every day some workout with my body.
I invest every day, like, 15 minutes in some exercises, you know, some push-ups, some lunges and stuff like that, do my running, and I think that is it.
But it's super important, and especially when you really sit a lot, you have to do a few exercises for your hips to keep them really well, so you don't have problem in the lower back, and you need to do maybe a plank two, three times a week.

(49:17):
But you really need, the more you older you get, you need to work out on that, and the nutrition is the main aspect, definitely.
And as far as mental workouts, do you have a mental workout or preparation that you go through, or a routine that you kind of meticulously stay with?
I know me and my to-do list save my life.
If I don't have those, and they're not in order, if I don't write my notes down, I'd be all over the place.

(49:42):
Yeah, I mean, it's also the running part, because when I run, I listen to podcasts, but then sometimes your mind, your thoughts go away, and I think of things through, maybe I'm having a speech that day or something, and I always have these creative ideas about these things.
I have, that's a different thing, to-do lists, I have them, they're more my structure, they're not really my creative pool, but I have the structure, I have a team, I have 20 employees in my other company, means I have topics with each of these people, and I have my lists, what I wanna discuss with them, so I'm super structured, too.

(50:22):
But that was not the point, the point was more like, how can you keep your brain fresh, always be interested in new stuff?
That's why I listen on these podcasts, I'm checking out tech news, I'm super interested, I have a lot of talks with people, so I'm very open to new stuff, and I think this is maybe the biggest challenge for everyone, get out of your comfort zone and try to really be open to new things, and then you stay fit in your brain.

(50:51):
Absolutely, one of my little guilty pleasures is,
when I take a break or when I wanna tune out,
I just play Candy Crush, not sponsored by them, by the way,
but I'll just tune out and I've had it on,
I'm at level 4,500 now or something like that,
really high up in there,
but it's just like a little mental break

(51:12):
of not thinking about any ideas or anything,
because nobody sees what we do behind the scenes, Martin,
they think we just come up with this,
we walk up and here we are today,
we've been like this forever,
but really, there's a lot of,
I've toyed with the idea of just saying,
put a camera up in my studio here, my office,
and let it run 24-7, and people go,
wow, he really does work it,

(51:33):
gets up at 6.30 in the morning
and starts working at 7 a.m.,
and doesn't stop till six o'clock at night,
five, six days a week sometimes.
Yeah, but that's being an entrepreneur, right?
I mean, back in the days when I had studio rhythm, I went sleeping in the morning, seven.
These days, since many years, I get up even before five, try to do that, and have my routines, and try to make the whole day, have several companies, it's only possible if you have structure, and yeah, you really don't waste too much time on, I don't know, gaming, I love gaming, but I don't have time for this thing.

(52:17):
Yeah, I've been an avid video gamer my entire life, and just to now sit down and get into a video, other than playing Candy Crush, I don't have time to sit down and get in these immersive games.
I mean, even if I got into Fortnite, or not sponsored by them, but we have our virtual reality nightclub, and it's sometimes hard not to get sucked into just going through that, or getting into other worlds, and diving into that, or playing a game that lasts sometimes three hours.

(52:45):
Sometimes I just turn off the Netflix and jump into VR, but it's, and I'm excited about the possibilities of what could possibly happen there as well, but that's a whole nother conversation.
But yeah, I mean, mental health, I think, is a big thing.
I like a lot YouTube, I have to say.
I'm not big on any sources, but YouTube is the one, because I'm looking a lot of documentaries, or I like motorbike riding.

(53:10):
It can be also technologies that I'm super interested about, robotics, AI, stuff like that.
So this is actually my platform.
I don't watch any series anymore, but I use a lot of like that when I'm like, want to sleep before, or read a book still, get back to that lately, yeah.
You know, and a question we do,

(53:32):
do ask a lot of people here,
when they do, are into podcasts,
and watching shows online through YouTube and stuff,
what are the top three shows,
or even listening to music,
what are the top three that you frequently go to,
that you would say,
these are my highest ones
that I always tune into when I run,
or when I'm taking a break and want to watch something,
do you have a go-to,
or is it just randomly type in a subject?

(53:54):
No, no, I'm heavily listening to podcasts.
Actually, I started last week, my first, I've wanted to do this for 10 years.
I do a radio show, I hosted a radio show for 25 years on one of the biggest stations here in Germany, for electronic dance music, we call it Sunshine Live.
So I like this medium to speak with people, what we do now too, and I'm listening really to some podcasts, daily podcasts, mainly they're political actually.

(54:21):
There's German podcasts like Rundzheimer, but then there's international one from US, Diary of a CEO with Stephen Bartlett.
Sometimes I check out the Joe Rogan show, I really like that too.
So I like really guys who interview people from businesses or politics, because super interesting how they did it, what is actually going on politically, I'm heavily involved here in German politics too.

(54:47):
But yeah, that's actually my, then there's a soccer or football podcast, that's a daily one from the biggest medium here.
It's called Stammplatz, I listen every day.
It's a 15 minute show, but completely updates about the football teams.
I'm following FC BEyerern Munich, it's my favorite team.
I love soccer.

(55:07):
I'm looking into Vancouver team now, because Thomas Muller got there, right?
And interesting, so that's actually my regular.
It's not really about music, that's more the fields.
Yeah, I mean, I was just looking at something, somebody who's, there's a topic out there for everyone.

(55:28):
I think, and if there isn't, start it.
Maybe you might become the top person in that category, is doing something and covering it.
That's the beauty about not having to be necessarily regulated.
Like when we were FCC, when we were doing broadcast television, we had to be FCC approved.
We had to get station manager approval.
We had to get all this clearance to put a show on broadcast television, just to put it out there.

(55:52):
YouTube kind of, podcasting the audio podcast and change that, and that realm is still very underdeveloped.
A lot of people are now bypassing the podcast and going straight to live streaming and doing something there, which on our, like ours on the backend, we're doing a live broadcast right now, but this is put on our podcast server and distributed to tons of platforms out there.

(56:15):
But I think it's a different medium, actually, because podcast is totally different to video streaming, because podcast, you can do just listening there.
You can, there's a lot of stuff you can do on the side.
You can work on your garden, clean your car, work stuff off, like do your text record files, you know, this kind of stuff where you don't need, if it's a mechanical work that you do.

(56:40):
And that's the difference why, and that's why I really like podcast, because there's a different focus.
And that's why I wouldn't say either or, it's just, you know, where do you use it?
Because when I run, I cannot look, watch YouTube, for instance, I need to do cycling.
Even if on a motorbike, I listen to music, I do phone calls also, or podcasts.

(57:04):
And that's something, I'm glad you brought that up, because not to target or say anything, but seeing the growth of online live streaming come, especially in the music world, especially in the DJ realm, is that, you know, when I started, I'd like to do all the bells and whistles and make the fancy show and look, look, look, look, look, so people were staring and watching the show the whole time.

(57:26):
But I think we've seen now, this has become so commonplace now for a DJ to stream live, is that you're right, people don't care about the aesthetics of the show anymore, because they're listening to the music.
And watching somebody just stand there, okay, it's cool, you got some graphics going on behind you, it's nice, unless I'm participating in the chat room, but even then I'm not watching the video here, I'm watching the chat room and what's being said there and participate.

(57:51):
But you can't do that if you're running down the road or driving a car or working as a mechanic or fixing something.
So again, that still, that aspect, that's what most of my shows are geared to be, something you can watch or something you can listen, nobody's gonna sit there and go, oh my gosh, what kind of keyboard does Martin have in the background there, I gotta buy one of those right now.

(58:12):
If that happens, cool, let me know in the chat room or on social media.
But I still believe that this is a huge medium that can reach thousands of people, tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands as we've seen in the success of the world.
So super excited that you are promoting that over there at Riverside Studios.
Again, is there a name for that creative technology hub or is it just under the Riverside umbrella, have you specifically named that?

(58:40):
Yeah, we call it the Lab Berlin.
The Lab.
Under the Lab Berlin, it's under the umbrella of Riverside Studios, it's part of our ecosystem, but it has this sub-brand.
Awesome.
You know, we've talked about a lot, I've gone and I'm super excited to catch back up with you again, it's been too long.

(59:00):
You know, is there anything else you wanna let our DJ Sessions fans know about before we let you go?
You should definitely come to Berlin, experience the music and DJ scene.
It's very unique globally, because clubbing here is not about exclusivity and who pays for the bottles, it's really do you fit into, do you add something to the experience in all those clubs?

(59:25):
And that is really a big difference.
So you should definitely, if you haven't been here, come here and check out the vibrant club and club culture scene.
I am glad that that is the one thing that came to mind when you brought that up, because I completely forgot to ask a small minor question.
Don't have to go too big into this, but one of the things that I was totally impressed when I went to the club, just right down the street from the studios, because I was in the local area.

(59:52):
I can't, it's the one, I think you recommended it to me and it had a house night of all things going on.
It had the little float on the river, right by the bridge.
Walking distance.
What?
It was Watergate club.
I think it is Watergate, yeah, Watergate, yeah.
It is closed meanwhile.
They closed down New Year's Eve this year after 25 years or something.

(01:00:13):
Ooh.
But it was fun.
You know, there's other clubs that open and stuff like that.
Yeah, no, I was talking with, do you know Robert Owen?
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, Robert, I just interviewed him recently and he said he lives right around the corner from Anhow and his studios is right next door to yours.
I was like, he's like, come over, we'll go shopping sometime.

(01:00:34):
I'm like, all right, cool.
You know, he's like, Darran, there's four more clubs right down a block from there.
There's two more clubs over here.
There's two more clubs here.
That's this area, actually.
Most clubs have been here.
It changed now.
There are more clubs like Sisyphus and RSO and the High Degree.
They're more out, but there used to be a lot of clubs here.
Berkheim is here, Watergate is here, Carter is here, you name it.

(01:00:57):
As you said, there's like a lot of clubs in this area.
Well, the one thing I wanted to touch on very briefly was, though, and I loved it, I really loved it, not because I'm some old school head or that I feel that something's been lost, but totally did it and respected it, is when I went to that club, they took my phone and they put stickers over both cameras.
And I was like, that's so cool.

(01:01:20):
You know, and I wish more nightclubs would adapt that policy.
I've been seeing more and more articles come out.
There was a club in Ibiza that now says there's no cameras allowed on the dance floor.
I know obviously Berkheim does it.
There's other clubs that do it.
But that was the first time I'd ever seen.
We threw a party, some, or not we, a party was thrown here in Seattle where it was called No Signal and they didn't allow phones to go into the clubs.

(01:01:44):
And it went well, but it never caught on as a trend.
And I'm wondering if that's gonna be a future trend of the establishments putting that rule on or, and, or the performers saying, this isn't my writer, I don't want this happening.
You know, if this happens, I'm gonna stop the show.
Or I know that might not, that might be pretty drastic there, but the phones in the clubs are really, they have changed obviously the dynamic of the dance floor, the movement of what's going on.

(01:02:13):
You got people like this who are trying to do this and other people are trying to have fun and they're trying to get that perfect selfie video moment that it's gonna go online and live up there.
What are your, in a nutshell, like a minute or less, what are your thoughts of cell phone use, video use in the nightclubs, in the, I shouldn't say in the entertainment, in that aspect?

(01:02:38):
It is a question of what is the goal of your club?
And you know, these clubs who do it here in Berlin, first they provide a safe space for people who are like-minded and want to have a privacy in their experience as their community connected to music and all of that.

(01:03:01):
So that means you go to these clubs and no one really speaks what happens inside because it's his experience.
And if you are a big club, usually actually the big shows in Ibiza, which is about the sensation of the show and artists, that's a different game.
And most people don't go for the music culture.
They go for a show there.

(01:03:21):
So I don't mind if they film it because they don't go for this experience.
But if you provide a club, and this is what I love, where people really come to enjoy the music together and absolutely the phones are disturbing, but it's not just to use your phones, it's really the privacy aspect, why they put the stickers on.
That's two different sides of the story.

(01:03:42):
I think it's a great idea to go somewhere and even would give your phone somewhere at the glock room off.
That would be even better because that means there's focus on the experience.
So that's the answer on it.
Yeah, even back in the day when I first started filming in clubs, I had to use lights for my cameras.
And people would say, my lights would ruin the aesthetic of the club.

(01:04:03):
Or some people didn't want to be seen on camera.
Or obviously a photography camera, it goes, it flashes, it's one shot.
Okay, cool.
But now as digital technology goes in, those same cameras can do video.
But now you have everyone, like you said, that inclusivity or that private moment that maybe somebody wants to let loose and have fun.

(01:04:24):
And they don't want to showing up on their work page tomorrow or going viral.
But with everyone doing that in the club like this, nobody's getting permission to do any of that.
And they're putting those up and it's like, maybe that's my old school thing.
I love seeing people use technology to advance stuff to do it.
I'm not saying, oh, now that everyone does it in the club, I don't have a show anymore.

(01:04:47):
I'm like, no, it's cool.
But I really respected it though.
They were really nice.
They were really polite about it.
And I didn't feel it was intrusive into anything because I could still text.
I could still do everything I wanted.
Absolutely, that's why I said, it's not about not using your phone.
It's about the privacy of the other people.
You can meet in Berlin clubs, highest politicians and economic leaders.

(01:05:10):
Like for real, I've been by myself with the governing mayor, all these people there.
And they do it because they really know that people you will not find in the yellow press, any photo, anything, because really people respect that, that these people are equal in their experience in being with the music, being this tribe.
And this is what Berlin clubbing makes so special and so unique.

(01:05:33):
And I know a lot of clubs start to copy that, hey, we put the sticker on your phone somewhere in the world.
I would say not all of them, but some of them maybe don't even know by themselves what is really the reason because on the other hand, they don't curate well because they make like, you have like the biggest paycheck in your hand and you can enter because they remember, ah, this guy bought five bottles last week.

(01:05:56):
That's how Ibiza works, right?
And all these clubs.
So, but in Berlin, you could do that.
People will not let you in if they feel that you just wanna put the money on you get in.
They wanna still check and get a feeling.
Do you come for this music culture?
Do you want to add on the experience for everyone?
Because you're like part of the whole happening or not.
And this is the big difference here.

(01:06:18):
Yeah, it definitely is a club culture that I want to experience more of.
We'll talk about that after the show, but I know you're a busy guy, gotta let you get going.
I gotta get going.
Where is the best place people can find out all the information about Riverside?
Where's the best place to send them to?
Yeah, you can go on our website, of course.

(01:06:39):
It's riversidestudios.de. Thanks for that, Darran.
We have our socials.
You'll find on, of course, on Instagram.
You can soon check out The Lab.
I think the website is thelab.berlin. That's the website.
I think it's live next two or three weeks.

(01:06:59):
And yeah, that's actually it.
We didn't get a chance to touch on NLND.
What's that all about?
That's a totally different project.
Another interview.
We develop 150,000 square meters, form a largest cigarette factory in Europe into an innovation district where we have prototyping halls, laboratories.

(01:07:23):
We have a conference center for 10,000 people there.
We have sports fields.
We have a university campus there.
So it's really totally a different story.
And that website is nlnd.com.
That's the name of that project.
So that is really a different story.
So you can fill two shows with that.
Wow, I didn't know.

(01:07:45):
Now I feel bad we didn't get to talk a little bit about that, but that'll be another time, another interview as well.
Look forward to having you back on the show here in the future, Martin.
Thank you again for coming back on the show today.
Thanks a lot, Darran.
I'm always on if you call me and it's always a nice talk and chat with you.
Thank you so much.
I look forward to doing that.

(01:08:07):
On that note, don't forget to go to our website, thedjsessions.com.
Find us there and all of our social media information, all of our news stories, all of our past interviews, exclusive mixes, our new music section.
Super excited about launching that one.
You can find out our VR nightclub, our mobile app and more at thedjsessions.com.

(01:08:29):
Hi, I'm your host, Darran.
Coming to you from Seattle, Washington, that's Martin Eyerer coming in from Berlin, Germany at Riverside Studios.
And remember on The DJ Sessions, the music never stops.