* Colton Pouncy, The Athletic Detroit

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Jack Kablin here with my good friend Matt Sloan a
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Speaker 5 (00:27):
Papacy, Matt in the gang here on West Grand riverd Okamitz.
They're making friends. We're going to stay right here, Rob
and waiting patiently. Our buddy Colton Pouncey from the Athletic
and covering the Detroit Lions. What did Dan Campbell say today? Colton?
Did he have any explanations for what didn't happen yesterday?

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah, he did, you know.

Speaker 6 (00:54):
He said he thought that some of his best players
didn't play their best games, and that was kind of
the difference in this one. Expecting more. He said the
Vikings had a great game plan, which you know, those
are the kind of things you respect him to say,
and just he didn't have his team ready to play,
And you know, those are things we've heard a couple
of times this season, and at some point you have
to wonder, you know, how much of this is just

(01:14):
who they are as a team in some ways some
of these offensive inefficiencies, these mistakes, because we've seen them
kind of bubble up at different points about the season,
like communication issues and one one half the offensive line
running one thing and the other half doing something else.
So it's week nine, we're happy through the season, and
we're still hearing some of these same issues from week one,
So you know, I kind of wonder where this team

(01:35):
is at right now.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
Honestly.

Speaker 5 (01:38):
Yeah, when you look at some of the problems yesterday,
they are problems that the set teams that lose games,
like block field goals, like errors, uncharacteristic errors, and usually
when you have problems in past protection, good luck. We

(01:58):
saw that with Michigan State Saturday at Minnesota too.

Speaker 6 (02:03):
Yeah, for sure, I think a lot of it starts
with that pass protection, and we kind of knew that
going into the season. You're not going to have Frank Gragan.
Now you're tired You're putting out two young starting guards
for the first time really in their careers, and they've
kind of struggled a little bit. And you have a
quarterback like Jared Golf who's not the most mobile, so
when he doesn't have time to throw, it looks a
little ugly. And then when you factor in the other mistakes.

(02:23):
The special teams defense I thought played pretty well overall,
all things considered. They're putting some bad spots, but too
many critical ayers. That's something Dan said after the game,
and you look back and you definitely see them kind
of stand out.

Speaker 5 (02:36):
I guess if you had told someone before the game
that you were going to get a long touchdown to
Sam Laporta and you were going to get one to
Jamison Williams welcome back, you think, wow, hey, it's going
to be a Lions kind of day. But you don't
get Jamior Gibbs in the end zone, you don't get

(02:57):
Aman Ross Saint Brown there, and Jared Goff just seemed
a little off for much of the game. Is that
the kind of thing where it just builds on itself
or did you think at some point, Okay, the Lions
are going to snap.

Speaker 6 (03:11):
Out of this. You know, if this sort of the
twenty twenty fourth season, I think I'd expect them to
win that game, fully, because that's just what they did.
Even when they didn't have their best stuff, they'd find
ways to come back and dig themselves out of it.
And they just haven't been able to do that this season.
Against the good defenses that they've played, they get in
these holes and they abandoned the run, and you know,

(03:31):
they don't have the offensive line to protect and hold
up for Jared Goff to create explosives in the passing game,
and then they can't move the ball and like, so
you can't really run the ball with the same efficiency
you had last year, and then you don't have the
same time to throw. It's harder to dig yourself out
and you need more possessions to do.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
It, and then you run out of time in the
very end.

Speaker 6 (03:49):
So yeah, I mean when they fall behind the sticks
and second end longs and third and longs and they
can't convert and they have to get off the field, like,
it's a different offense. And again, as well as the
defense is playing, i think they've been awesome this year,
the offense is taking a step back and it's kind
of hurt them in games like this.

Speaker 5 (04:08):
Calton rat Holmes is not signing you this week. So
what are they going to do at the trading deadline
with these problems on the offensive line.

Speaker 6 (04:21):
Yeah, it's a good question because you know, what we
learned last night at least, is that Christian Mahogan needs
to starting left guard for this team.

Speaker 2 (04:29):
He's going to be out until.

Speaker 6 (04:31):
You know, sounds like late December, is what Cambell kind
of mentioned. I think that's sort of a loose estimate
just based on the early prognosis. It's a knee injuries
dealing with, I believe is what they had to listen as.
So I'm not sure how long it's going to be,
but you know that's the starting guard you're going to
be down. So it's like, do you look at offensive
line depth? And I think that's certainly in an area
they could look to address. Now they might just say, hey,

(04:52):
we like Kyoti Awashika. He came in for when Tate
Rattlers went down and when Hogging went down as the
sort of scard off the bench. But it's that sort
of a spot start type of guy. Do you want
someone that can kind of fill that spot? Through late
December if you need to, or would you get a
guy like Tristan Colombra to play or just go.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
Out and get a guy.

Speaker 6 (05:12):
So I'm looking at offensive line for sure. And then
Taylor Decker's had you know, shoulder injury and a knee injury,
so he's kind of.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
Going through it right now.

Speaker 6 (05:20):
You know, Diana Versini at the Athletic my colleagues, she's
reported as the Lions have been looking for a defensive
line help, defensive backfield help.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
So maybe they try to add at an edge.

Speaker 6 (05:30):
Piece like a Matthew Judon type who can come in
set an edge in the run game and be a
death piece, or you know, set an extra safety. With
Turbiy Joseph dealing with kne injury. So I'm kind of
looking there. But the lines all striking as a team
that that's going to be particularly splashy. The Eagles went
out and got Jaill.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
And Phillips this morning.

Speaker 6 (05:48):
They don't really strike me as that sort of team,
but I could see them trying to get some jeft
pieces here and there.

Speaker 5 (05:54):
All right, schedule now, Washington up next, right, and we
know that with Jayden Daniels and the elbow injury. He
has had such a jinxed sophomore season with the Commanders,
and then you have Philly after that, and I think Philadelphia,

(06:14):
maybe the Rams, Green Bay, and the Lions would be
the four best teams. Don't tell Christian McCaffrey I said that,
but those are the sues I would think would be
right there at the end in the NFC. The Lions
get through this part of the season unscathed, or would
you expect them to pick up a couple more losses

(06:36):
here in the next month or so.

Speaker 6 (06:39):
Yeah, you know that Philly game's gonna be pretty tough.
They're defending champions for a reason, and you know they're
still have a pretty good record. They're six and two,
so they're still playing well. They've got probably some underlying
issues and made some chemistry issues. It seems like they
have that every year with Jalen Hurds and the receivers.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
But that's still a team that I think when January
comes around, like they kind of hunker down. So they're
gonna be pretty tough.

Speaker 6 (07:01):
And that's that's a real game. The Commander's game, I
think look more daunting obviously going into a season than
does now, especially after last night, So feel pretty good
about them bouncing back this upcoming week.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
But man, I.

Speaker 6 (07:12):
Wouldn't the Giants. They were scrappy team and they had
Scataboo and him and Jackson Dart playing together. But he's
out for the season now, so that's a tough loss.
But yeah, I mean, looking at the schedule, I still
like the Lions, Like, I don't think this guy's falling.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
I want to make that clear.

Speaker 6 (07:28):
Like they've struggled against some good teams and good defenses
they've played. They still only lost that game by three
with all all the things that went wrong in that
game last night, So I still like their their their
team this year.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
I think they.

Speaker 6 (07:40):
Need to probably figure some things out offensively. I thought
they would try to maybe look a little bit better
at coming.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
Out of the bye week. I probably expected more. Didn't really happen.

Speaker 6 (07:48):
But in terms of their season outlook, you know, they're
goenough to be most teams on their schedule remaining, and
I'm sure other teams that will be looking at the
Lions and that's gonna be tough games.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
So it kind of works for both players.

Speaker 5 (08:00):
After Jamo's late touchdown cut it to three, Goldon I
said well, you know, allions can get a stop there,
they still have some time on the clock, and I
don't think the Vikings managed that situation very well. That
gave Deliance an extra minute and then they had that
third down and it was Wolverine the Spartan crime, two

(08:21):
guys that you watch play college ball and JJ McCarthy
and Jalen Naylor, and that was the perfect play to
end the game.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
Yeah, it really was.

Speaker 6 (08:32):
And I didn't see the coverage by Arthur Malay was
that bad. You know, he just needed if he got
his head around, that might be a pass deflection PBu.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
But really didn't.

Speaker 6 (08:42):
And that's something he said to us after the game,
just he has to get his head around. But man,
what a connection would hook up Jalen Naylor? Man, Yeah,
I covered him that twenty twenty one season. That was
my last year on Michigan State and to see him
still getting done in the NFL was cool.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
Cody White caught a.

Speaker 6 (08:55):
Touchdown and that the Seahawks and sy Nike and that
was cool too. I didn't know you're still still getting
it down the NFL.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
So a couple of Spartans making play.

Speaker 5 (09:03):
So well, you might see Jayden Reid in the playoffs
if he comes back for the Packers too. Looking at
the NFC North Vikings, it's almost like they said, yeah,
remember the last game last season, We're going to erase
that memory yesterday or the Bears much improved and Ben

(09:29):
Johnson looks like he's got them believing. It's a lot
of young talent there. And Green Bay I don't know
how they gave one away yesterday. They were even a
bigger favorite than the Alliance were and managed to lose
that game at home to Carolina on a last snap
field goal. So the Lions are still only a half

(09:50):
game out, but that tie that the Packers and Dallas
had might be what determines the division winner.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah, I could.

Speaker 6 (10:00):
I think when you're watching that, you know, Green Bay
Dallas game, you're like, this is you know, as the
trading blows and whatnot, I kind of had the same thought,
like this could very easily end in a time it did,
and that's gonna be frustrating for us kind of watching
the standings the rest of the year.

Speaker 2 (10:14):
With that sort of half game thing.

Speaker 6 (10:15):
But yeah, man, this divisions kind of I don't know
what to make of it yet. Because Dan Campbell he
said this last week or a couple of weeks ago, like
November December is where teams rise and falls, and like
the contenders separate themselves from the pretenders, so to speak.
And so the Bears are five and three, but they
haven't beaten a ton of impressive teams in my opinion,
and they've played, you know, that fourth play schedule that's

(10:35):
kind of helping them. And Ben Johnson's done a great
job over there getting those guys ready to play, and
the offense definitely made some strides, but I still don't
know what to make of them. In their defense in particular,
the Packers are very inconsistent. They can win some good games,
they can lose to some terrible teams, and you don't
know which team are going to get on a week
to week basis.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
Not Tucker Craft is out.

Speaker 6 (10:54):
He was such an important piece at offense, and the
Vikings have had their own issues, and you know, they're
off to.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
A four and four start.

Speaker 6 (11:01):
So I feel like the Lions and where they're at
right now, But it seems like all these teams in
the division right now are kind of figuring themselves out
as we advanced into the season.

Speaker 5 (11:12):
Did you think the Bears could have five wins at
this point.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
I thought it was possible.

Speaker 6 (11:17):
I mean, their schedule has not been you know, coming
into it, their schedule did not look super daunting. And
you know, they play a Bengals team without Joe Burrow.
They beat the Saints, you know, they beat the Raiders.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
You know, some of these teams that.

Speaker 6 (11:30):
They some some some of their wins so far have
not been super impressive to me.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
So look, man, I think Ben.

Speaker 6 (11:34):
Johnson your coach, and I think he's learned from Dan.
And you know, it was here as long as he
was for a reason because you wanted to make sure
he was ready and had the right opportunity if he
were to leave. And so I think he found that
in Chicago, and that's a team that had talent, they
just didn't have proper coaching. So I'm not surprised to
see him, you know, get off the start that he
has with you know, the schedule that they have now,

(11:55):
you know they're gonna have some soffer games on the schedule.
They played the Eagles, they have to play the Packers twice,
so you know, we'll see how they do later in
the season, but as right now, I'm not surprised where
they are.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
Colton.

Speaker 5 (12:07):
A lot of fans love college football because of the emotion,
the passion, maybe the pageantry of it. But from a
competitive standpoint, there is nothing like the National Football League,
and I think they're onto something. They're so far ahead
of other sports with the idea of enforced parody. And

(12:29):
you know, we saw this back from Pete Roselle to
Paul taglia Boo and the idea that you want every
team to have a shot at the playoffs with two
weeks to go into season. That makes it a perfect year.
And you know we're talking about teams in last place
in their division having a chance to win this thing.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (12:51):
Man, it's been a fun year, honestly. Like there's so
many surprise teams like the Patriots going from you know,
bottom five team to you know, seven and two, the
Colts doing what they're doing at the Jaguars are off
to good.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
So it's been cool to see some of these teams
kind of kind of rise up the ranks. And that's
that's what I love about the NFL.

Speaker 6 (13:08):
I mean, even my first year covering the Lions, you know,
they went from three thirteen to one to nine and
eight and almost making the playoffs, and I think if
they got into the playoffs that year could have done
some damage. Like I wouldn't surprised they end upset or
two if they if they had gotten in, because they're
playing so well at the end of the year. But yeah, man,
that's that's what you love about the NFL.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
It's a parody. It's you know, these.

Speaker 6 (13:28):
There's talent on you know, some rosters have more talent
than others, but it tends to even out over the
course of the season, and anyone can can get at
anyone on a given Sunday.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
So it's a lot fun to watch on fold for sure.

Speaker 5 (13:40):
Colton I want to talk for just a minute about
coaching styles and the perception with fan bases, and a
lot of times different communities want different things. If you're
playing in southern California, maybe you need flash and dash.
I talked to Irvin about this and they had to
have showtime out there. They wanted to get Matthew Stafford

(14:05):
out there, and they want that kind of a kind
of a team Detroit, to borrow his phrase, sees itself
as gritty. It wants to win a certain way. It
wants fight as much as anything else. Ye, how you
want wins. You'd love to have a Super Bowl bid
that they've never had, but they have to represent in

(14:25):
a certain way. And for Dan Campbell, we talk about
this a lot with Jonathan Smith at Michigan State, and
he just seems so robotic on the sidelines and that
drives people crazy. Doesn't mean you can't win that way,
but it means you got to really do something spectacular
on the field because you're not going to win off

(14:47):
the field. And when Dan Campbell came in, you know,
people laughed about the knee caps and all that stuff,
but it didn't take long for fans to understand that, hey,
this is a guy who wears it all. Honestly, he's
as emotional as you can get. Players love him, ownership
embraced him, and four nineteen and one for nineteen and

(15:10):
one in the first twenty four games. I mean, I
can't imagine a college coach who could get through twenty
four games before nineteen and one and come back and
here it is. You know, Bill love it. And he's
doing more commercial endorsements now. The last five Lions head
coaches combined.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
Yeah, no doubt.

Speaker 6 (15:33):
I mean it's funny when you think about how far
he's come, because you know, going back to that coaching
search when they hired him, one thing that you know,
Lions Brass told me is like they wanted an anti
Patricia because Matpatris came in here and said that, you know,
we want to replicate the Patriot's Way and all this stuff.
But like obviously it failed miserably. But the Lion said

(15:54):
that we don't need to replicate anyone else's culture.

Speaker 2 (15:56):
We need something unique to our city and.

Speaker 6 (15:57):
It's someone that understands us and what we're all about
and where we want to go. And that was Dan
Campbell to a t. Without even telling him their requirements,
he just checked off every box. And so it's not
surprising to see it, Like, yeah, I mean, teams should
be more patient and like Aaron Gunn going through some
of this in New York right now, because he's sort
of from the same cloth as Dan, where like, if
you hire him to win five games that your first ate,

(16:20):
like a Ben Johnson type, where like you're seeing the
immediate success in the numbers and whatnot, then you're not
going to get that what Aaron Glenn and what Dan,
what Dan Campbell is are they're culture builders, and that
takes time. You got to get the right guys in place,
You got draft developed, and get those guys ready to play,
and that takes years. So I feel like the NFL
maybe has a little bit more patients in the college game.

(16:41):
It's hard to imagine college coaches getting that sort of
time compared to the NFL, but the lines are patient
with Dan and you know, those first twenty four twenty
five games are rough, but they end up turning it
around and look what they are now.

Speaker 5 (16:55):
So when you look at what we have seen this
year in the National Football League, culton, we were hearing
Dak Prescott's name for a long time and then Patrick
Mahomes didn't have a good day yesterday. In terms of
an MVP, I'd always thought that it's a quarterback's award
for the most part now, but what Jonathan Taylor has

(17:16):
done this year for the Colts is undeniable. And I
mentioned this to someone yesterday, saying, you know, I would
be very tempted to vote for Jonathan Taylor. And the
guy shook his head and I said, so, who's your guy?
He said, Matthew Stafford. Can you see that?

Speaker 2 (17:34):
I can He's played awesome.

Speaker 6 (17:36):
He's more of a I don't know if the numbers
will wow you, and MVP seems like such a numbers
based award now, but like if you watch the film,
the throws he's making are unreal. He's such a command
of that offense. I'm just throwing guys open, the no looks,
the lookoff like he's doing everything that he needs to
do to a quarterback at a high level fourteen that's
winning games. So like, inherently as the quarterback, he's going

(17:58):
to get some mentions for MVP, but the numbers have
to be there too.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
But I'm kind of I love Jonathan Taylor. I love
what he's doing.

Speaker 6 (18:06):
When they're having the whole discussion like shrewd page off
the Taylor like, I'm like, yes, it's a no brainer.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
He's a great player and he makes your offense better.

Speaker 6 (18:12):
And now I think now that they've kind of developed
the offensive line and got that in place, like you're
seeing the rewards of that patient.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
So I loved some JT.

Speaker 5 (18:22):
Carlton, thanks so much for joining us. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
Have fun in Washington absolutely, thanks for having Jude.

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