* Darien Harris, Michigan State Football alum

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Jack Kablin here with my good friend Matt Sloan a
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Speaker 2 (00:05):
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Speaker 1 (00:24):
Zero percent. Can't get much lower than that. That's exactly right, Topacy,
Matt in the gang here on West Grand River, Omiz.
They're making friends. Welcome back. It is a drive with
Jack the Spotlight Radio Network. Jack Ablin here with my

(00:45):
producer Boston Rob Rob. This is such a fun show.
I mean, anytime you start with Don Fisher, it's hard
to top it. But we're gonna try with my next
guest and one of my favorite guests in the twenty
three years that we've been doing this, that is Darien Harris.
Not only one of the best football captains and leaders

(01:07):
in Michigan State has ever had, but now it's hard
to find anything. Darien can't do. He is director of
Player Engagement with the New York Football Giants. He is
co founder of Recharged Pilates in downtown East Lansing. He
is the proud father of Naomi. And we want to

(01:30):
talk a little bit about the NFL, but we're going
to put that on hold and talk about Michigan State first. Darien,
you were back on campus over the weekend for homecoming, right, yes, yep,
and we saw you singing.

Speaker 3 (01:45):
Can never go wrong with singing to fight songs.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, you and Twan Jones. You haven't forgotten the.

Speaker 4 (01:53):
Words, right, No, not at all, not at all. We
are of the generation where you had to learn to
fight song as a freshman to even participate in training camp,
so we will never forget the words.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
I think the problem this year isn't that people have
forgotten the words or don't want to sing it. It's
that they haven't had nearly enough opportunities to sing it.
Going back to your state and East Lansing, with the
four ball wins, with the Big Ten championships, with thirty

(02:27):
six and five, the college football playoffs, et cetera, et cetera,
et cetera.

Speaker 5 (02:31):
That's upset for you, right, now, yeah, I mean it's
certainly difficult, you know, more so from the reasons and
the standpoint of you know, I know that staff, I
know the players in that locker room.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
Specifically the guys that have that have been there for
a few years, and you know, I know how hard
it is to win at this level and.

Speaker 6 (02:52):
Specifically in this day in Asia college sports and college football,
and so I know from the outside looking in, you know,
everybody's going to have a perspective and have a you know,
have their own opinion on whether there's there's juice and
energy and enthusiasm and preparation.

Speaker 3 (03:11):
All those things. But you know, from the players that
are coaching, it's their careers that they are looking to enhanced,
and you enhance those who win. So I know that
they're putting in the time, effort, and energy, it's just
not quite showing up on the field.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
What do you tell fans who maybe they came back
from homecoming and it was there one shot and they
saw what they saw, or maybe donors boosters, people who
have the money to help the program and they don't
know whether to get involved right now, what's your message
to them? As a true Green.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
Spartan, you know, stay true to the school and the
university and support as best you can. You know, obviously
this is a you know, it's a challenging time in
terms of the last couple of weeks. But you know,
the team is not going six. You know, they have
won some games that they've shown that they know how

(04:10):
to win. They've won some games over the last couple
of years, maybe not as many as expectations may state,
but it doesn't mean that the ship can't be righted.
And look, you know, these seasons are long, and there
is still an opportunity to see some good things this
year and then obviously you know long term, you know,
I never feel like your support for your school should

(04:32):
ever waiver in terms of you know, whether you are
aren't going to support them. It doesn't mean you can't
be frustrated or disappointed. But you know, I'm always more
of the point to some not the finger type of person.
So whether it's again players, coaches, staff, fans and lums,
you know, I think collectively we can all say hey,
what can we do better to help this team be successful?

Speaker 1 (04:54):
No one is going to want to give it back, Darien,
But did you and your teammates and Mark d' antonio's
staff spoil the fans just a little bit, that hey,
it's not quite as easy as it made it look.
And going thirty six and five the last three years,

(05:14):
you know, there are a lot of fans right now
at some of those they'd love to have five losses
in the season. Yeah, you had five in the last
three Yeah.

Speaker 3 (05:24):
So it's funny. I've had some of those sentiments shared
with me from former teammates where you know, we're kind
of gone back and forth and did we, you know,
spoil the fans, so to speak. And I look at
it differently. I look at in fact that one. As
the years go on, I think that the appreciation for
that time is going to continue to enhance and continue

(05:49):
to to, you know, be put on even bigger of
a pedestal. Look, I'm somebody who when I was with
the program, I would tell every recruit at a high
school that I cannot wait for our forty three wins
and four seasons thirty six and five in the last
three records to be broken, because that means we're winning championships.
So it's not by any means records we're trying to

(06:10):
hold on to. But at the same time, it does
I think give a fan base an opportunity to kind
of reflect on how good the times were in and
like you said, how difficult it is to win, and
I say, even you know, personally for myself and my teammates.
Even more importantly than that, I think it gives the
fan base an opportunity to really appreciate coach Antonio. Yeah. Yeah,

(06:31):
excellent and amazing of a coach he was. And how
just as coach is FAMAS for a reason. You know,
hall of famers aren't aren't growing on trees, and you
don't just plug and play Hall of famers. There's a
reason why coached he is too. He is.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
When you mentioned those wins and that twenty twelve season,
and I think without the twenty twelve season and fighting
through adversity in gting that Bowl win at the end
of it, there was an eleven win season when you
came in and red shirted. That's fifty four wins in

(07:09):
the time you were on campus. There are very few,
very few Big Ten athletes who have ever experienced anything
like that. And the five eleven win seasons or more
up to thirteen in the span of six years, the
only coaches in Big Ten history who have done that

(07:31):
are Urban Meyer, Ryan Day, and Mark D'Antonio.

Speaker 3 (07:36):
Yeah. I mean, you know, winning is habitual, and winning
is essentially a learned science that goes along with talent.
And I truly believe that, I truly believe you have
to learn how to win, and for it to be sustainable,
you have to continue to teach how to win. And
that is something that Coach Antonio was masterful at. He

(07:57):
taught us how to win. And again, like the opportunity
that myself and my teammates have had, especially very strongly
over the last few years in larger part one, because
coach has gotten in two Hall of Fame, so we've
been able to have some mini reunions, but also just
with the kind of the state of the program we've
we've really taken the time to reflect on how we

(08:19):
learned how to win through off season training with coach
Manny and into springball and into the summer workouts and
when you infuse our winners manuals that all of us,
you know, still have at least one of those. I
have all five of mine that have different anecdotes and quotes,
and look, I put a quote above above above my

(08:39):
desk in my office here in East Rutherford, New Jersey.
That's a quote from the famous philosopher Lao Zoo, who
was Coach D loved because I got it from Coach D.
Like the impact that he had in terms of our
mental aptitude to go win is something that was what
really made him special, beyond the talent he recruited and

(09:01):
those types of things. So you know, yes, those numbers
stand out, especially in that stretch of time, but I
do believe we had a culture of winning UH, and
we were taught how to do that.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
What is that quote that you borrowed, Darien?

Speaker 3 (09:17):
It is anticipate anticipate the difficult by managing the easy.
One of the many allowsing quotes that UH and quotes
in general that Coach D shared with us.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
I love it when you think about buy in and
getting players to know what you know and want to
do of the things that they may not want to do.
How difficult is that for players to do when they're

(09:47):
not experiencing success, When it looks like, uh, you know,
they're not going to bowl games and they're not fighting
for championships.

Speaker 3 (09:56):
It's very difficult because it becomes a question of a
right well, what am I doing all this for? And and
and ultimately you know, the answer is for the team
and to again form form of these habits that will
shape us going forward. But it's hard to see, you know,
the outlook and the projection of what may happen in
the future. Obviously you don't know. But but again that's like,

(10:19):
that's what hard work is, all right, That that's the
reason that you strive for for success is because of
the The alternative is that you just don't stand a
chance at least if I put in the work, at
least I have a chance. And that's one of the
hardest things to get through to anybody, you know, whether
it's in sports or business or you know anything. You know,

(10:41):
there's you know, there's there's famous you know, picture depictions
out of that of the You take a gold miner
or diamond minor and he's acting through the you know,
through the through the rocks, and one guy has been
acting for for days and he turns around and the
next guy just goes one more step. And then there's
the goals, like you just never know when you're going

(11:01):
to hit it. And so that is again it's part
of a culture. It's part of instilling winning values. And
you know you mentioned that twenty twelve season. I mean,
you know, you look at the numbers. It was at
five games lost by thirteen total points or whatever it is.
But you we get to the end of the game
the season and Coach d gives us hacks that have
program win on it, like you got to get that

(11:22):
last game. You got to win that game on the
road at Minnesota to win six and go to a bowl.
That's a program when that's a culture instilled. You know,
we just came off of the season where we played
for the Big Ten title and then we go into
a season where we have maybe an even better defense
offense with talent. We just got to plug and play
with a QB. Even though it didn't go our way

(11:43):
throughout the season, we had to have that last game
and then we won the bowl game, and then you
go on to thirteen and it speech for itself. So
that's a culture of standards that everybody was held accountable for.
Even when the scoreboard didn't show that way. Guys were
still competing and doing everything it took to go out
there and win.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
We're talking with Darien Harris. Darian, you're probably too modest
to talk a lot about this, but I thought you
were one of the best captains of Michigan State had
had and the captains in that era were phenomenal. How
important is player leadership when maybe things could start to fray?

Speaker 3 (12:22):
Yeah, I think it is as important as anything. You know,
any any coach will will tell you that a player
led team is truly how you have success. And the
coaches that are at the level of a coach Izzo
who who talks about it every single year right when
there actually are able to implement it in a way
that makes an impact, then that gain and that's how

(12:44):
you have championship teams. And that's ultimately have you have
championship coaches. You have to have players lead from the front.
You have to have players that are leading in their
own way, but at the same time are able to
carry on a message from the coaches from the program
and instill it in the locker room. And I think
that that is you know, again, throughout the time that

(13:07):
we played it at MSU, during my time, the guys
that I learned from to to be a leader, and
ultimately when I was able to step in as a captain,
you know, my big thing was how do I first
connect with everybody on the team, no matter what, no
matter where you came from, no matter what's your position
on the depth chart, no matter the color of your skin.
You know who doesn't matter. Like, I got to connect

(13:28):
with everybody, and I got to get everybody on the
same page. I got to get this message across to everybody,
and I have to command the respect to everybody. But
I think even at at at the helmlet of that
and what really honestly helped me have a have a
really good senior year is I knew that I couldn't
lead if I wasn't playing well. And that's really the
ultimate thing. It's still a performance based business, and it's

(13:50):
really really hard to lead if you're not performing well
because people are gonna be like, what are you telling
me do this? But you're not out there making place,
And so you have to you have to be playing
at a certain level to be able to still galvanize
the locker room. And that's the toughest challenge of leadership, Darien.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
People say, wow, football is football, it doesn't matter, But
there are a lot of differences between the college game
and the NFL. And I don't just mean where the
hash marks are. But in your time with the Giants,
what's the single biggest difference you see in the mindset
of players?

Speaker 3 (14:30):
Yeah, I would say just the attention to detail is
at another level at this level. And that's how that's
why these guys are having success here. You know, no
longer or made it to this level and then you
know you you're great. So you guys that are truly
having success having even you know more uh more attention

(14:51):
to detail because and the reason is what I've really found,
especially again in these these first you know, six weeks
and you know observing obviously watching the games and observing
the games from my lens and you know, being in
game prep and all that is the difference in talent
from team to team is there? There really isn't much

(15:13):
difference in college. There's a big gap, right, And that's
why you have major upsets in college, right because you're
not expecting certain teams to beat other teams. And when
it happens, it's a humong his story. It doesn't mean
it can't happen, but it's very very rare that it
would happen. In the NFL again, and especially this year,
the difference in talent from team to team is there

(15:36):
really isn't much. You may have some here, some there,
It really just comes down to execution and and any
mistakes that you make another the other team's going to
capitalize on because of that good and so it truly
is like the attention to detail throughout the week and
game preparation that I see is the biggest difference.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
I was talking to someone in player person hell Darien,
and I said, the difference between Team one, whoever that
is in the National Football League and team thirty two,
that gap is about its biggest between Team one and
team six and the big ten.

Speaker 3 (16:11):
Yep, yep. I would agree with that, and I think
it's exactly why you know, they say that the quote
unquote worst NFL team would be the best college team
by sixty because the talent, the talent gap is, you know,
from college to the NFL where you truly are like
you say it in college like, oh, well, you know,

(16:32):
everybody was the best player on the high school team.
And that's yeah, that's true. But there are some not
very good high school players that still make it at
college level and some not really good football players that
still making it at college level based on athleticism, NFL
professional sports, and it's truly the best of the best,
and I would I would totally agree. Like the difference

(16:53):
between Team one the team you know, like I said,
Team one's the team fifteen. You know, team sixteen, Team
one to the first team out of the playoffs, that
doesn't make it. There's not that much difference.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yeah, yeah, Darian, I want to talk for a minute
about the Giants, and I loved the game last Thursday,
not just because I had camp Scataboo on a fantasy
football team, but because I love to watch teams that
love to play and the energy with Jackson Dart coming

(17:26):
in at quarterback. You know, he went to the to
the tent and you know everybody goes in to try
to find out if he's okay. You know, the coach
goes in and then you know, you get table and
it's everybody's going in to check on him. And the
fan reaction there. We know what what New York can
be like. And now that the Yankees are out, you

(17:47):
know they're looking for someone to love. But to see
what the Giants did to the Eagles, and now these
teams are going to meet again.

Speaker 3 (17:55):
Right, Yes, yeah, A couple of weeks. Obviously, folks on
Denver first be a tough one for us on on
the road far for that. Uh then yeah, right back
to Philly, which is interesting from the schedule schedule makers there.
But yeah, certainly this last Thursday was certainly exciting for
for the fan base and for for our organization. And

(18:19):
you know, watching those two young guys go out there
and compete. You know, we have a we have a
great mix of vets as well as younger players that
are making an impact. And uh, seeing each each side
embrace the other, you know, you kind of you know,
obviously everything is, everything's always better after wins, but you
kind of could see that, you know, uh, simmering to

(18:41):
a to a good point, and it all kind of
just exploded in a great way on Thursday, and so,
you know, a lot more work to do. You talk
about college season having some time love NFL season as long,
and I'm learning that just as our rookies are. You know,
we're six games in and we're only a third of
the way through, so it's just kind of we're kind

(19:01):
of into quarter two of the season and you just
kind of break it down that way, and you want
to win eacht quarter as best as you can. But
even if you lose a quote unquote first quarter of
the season doesn't mean you can't finish strong. Just like
if you win the first quarter of the season doesn't
mean you may not finish your way you want to.
So we just want to keep building on what we're
able to do on Thursday and let that, you know,

(19:22):
lead us through the rest of the season. But certainly,
certain it was a fun time in MetLife this past week.

Speaker 1 (19:29):
Someone said, you know, the Giants, there's something cooking there.
And it's a little bit like Kansas City when the
Chiefs identified Patrick Mahomes as their guy and trade it
up to get him. Not to the top of round one,
but they traded up to be able to get the
guy that they knew was going to be a difference maker.

(19:51):
And then you find a guy later on in the draft,
you know, you might find it a Kelsey or someone
that you identify becomes a great player. It's a little
bit like the Lions when they moved up and took
Jamiir Gibbs and everyone said, what are you doing that for?
To take a running back? But then they found their
guy in round four and Amen, ra Saint Brown, and

(20:14):
it's a little bit like what the Giants have now.
They said, Okay, Jackson Dart is the guy. We have
to have him, so we're going to make a move
to get him. And then later on when everyone else
was sleeping, they didn't forget about Camp Scatapoo. Can you
talk about those two players, probably the best pair of

(20:34):
rookies in the National Football League this year, and what
they bring to this franchise.

Speaker 3 (20:40):
Yeah, you know, it's been great to be around those guys.
You know, obviously in this role, spent a lot of
time with the rookies and you know since this summer essentially,
you know it spent every day with them in the
summer and then of course spend time with them during
the season and get to connect with them on on
on different levels. And you know, both of those guys
embody what we're looking for an organization, which is you know, tough,

(21:02):
heart knows disciplined football players that bring a level of
leadership and a level of enthusiasm to the team. And
that's what they've been able to do. You know, it
shows up on during the games, shows up obviously on
the sideline, and it shows up for us you know,
each day in the facility, and so you know, just
continue to work with those guys on on, you know,

(21:23):
staying grounded and staying in the moment, and you know,
of course, you know, continuing to play well, but also
understanding that you know there is going to be a
lot that comes with the success, and you know, you know,
not to get seduced by success, as we say, so
not to let the success be something that that makes
you complacent, which will definitely never happen with these guys,

(21:43):
but also expect to have that success, expect to play
at this level, expect to be able to compete at
this level, and expect to be leaders, which both of
them are and so you know they're true joy to
be around daily and you know, I'm looking.

Speaker 6 (21:57):
Forward to continue to build with both of those guys.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
How would you tackle Cam Scataboo in the open field?

Speaker 3 (22:04):
Yeah, it's tough, man, I mean, you know, I think
his fast deck to Lawrence like kind of tough to
bring down and deck, like I said, it appears so
you know, he's he's he's so loaded the grounds, you know,
but runs with such power that you got to get
under him because you know, it's football. Low man wins,
but but he's about as low as you can go,

(22:26):
and so it would be uh, you know, probably like
one of those side hot roll tackle kind of things
trying to trying to trip him up and get his
legs because he's uh yeah, I mean he's got you know,
he sent some all pros out there flying so very
very tough guy to bring down.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
Darien Harris. They brought a lot of honor to a
great number number forty five at Michigan State and director
a player engagement for the New York Giants. Last thing
for you, A house recharged.

Speaker 3 (22:56):
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instructors and just yeah, halfs out to my wife Olivia
for you know, building this this welcoming space that felt
like the city needed, especially in the health and wellness space,

(23:16):
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So it's not anything where we're letting go just because
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(23:37):
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