Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Jack Kebling here with my good friend Matt Sloan a
graph of Okeemists. Big summer here, Matt.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
That's right, Jack. We got the summer savings going on
right now at Graft Nissan and Graft Chevy of Okamist.
Great deals. We're offering zero percent financing and select vehicles
up to sixty months. If you're a Casto member. We
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It's been a great summer. We got great deals for you.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Zero percent. Can't get much lower than that. That's exactly right,
Ffacy Matt in the gang here on West Grand River, Okamiz,
they're making bread.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
How about it? Talking about physical presence, What do you
think of our next guest having one of those?
Speaker 4 (00:37):
Oh? Absolutely, I mean, you know, I'm just I'm just
glad when I see him. You know, he doesn't dunk
on my head. That's we're talking about. Deshaun takes our
Lansing Bread Atlanta based basketball spot. It's takes take hoops
where basketball lives to shan How you.
Speaker 5 (00:55):
Doing dunk a chicken nugget into some dipping sauces? Probably
about the only thing I'll be dunk and Jack appreciate
you for having me as usual around this time every Thursday.
I'm grateful to be on with you. And I know
you were talking a little bit about aid and childs.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
You know that.
Speaker 5 (01:12):
I'll say this real quick, no super big football fishonado
or anything, go to person, what have you. But I
think that this year will find himself with a little
bit more balance. We'll see some of that. You know,
there were some instances where there were just it just
kind of felt like there were a lot of home
run plays that we saw that he tried to make,
(01:34):
and maybe not so much of the simpler ones, maybe
ones that you know, wouldn't get the oohs and odds,
and we'll go for some of the big players. But
I think we'll see a little bit more of a
balanced guy and a lot more of the potential that
everybody had been talking about when there were conversations first
starting about his transfer from Oregon State to Michigan State,
(01:55):
about how high of a potential NFL draft, all this
other stuff that they fall in love with, those agents
or front office men and so forth. I think we'll
see a little bit more flashes of that from him
this season. I can't wait and and by the way,
Jay a rematch some payback against Boston College because I'm
looking forward to.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
Yes, yes, that was one that got away. There were
two games last year, one in Chestnut Hill, Massachusetts and
one in ann Arbor that Michigan State controlled, if not
completely dominated, but certainly had the better of it and
didn't get the victory. When you think about a guy
(02:35):
like that who can make all the big plays, and
there were highlight plays last year to Shawn against Maryland
on the road in the upset of Iowa where you said, Wow,
this guy's really got the potential, and then he would
make the big mistake. I'm thinking about the parallel to basketball,
and you have a guy who's just oozing inability. He's
(02:58):
not quite ready for prime time. Do you think the
coaches would rather have a guy like that knowing what
the upside is, or rather have someone that they're more confident, Uh,
maybe more consistent, more stability.
Speaker 5 (03:14):
Off the top of my head, I'm not sure if
I know a player, but I will keep it right
here at my home where I'm based out of Sometimes
and again, the correlation might not be the same as
far as superstardom, but just from those individual you know questions. Sometimes.
It reminded me of of of Trey Young sometimes when
(03:35):
he came into the NBA level, where everybody raised so
much about his shooting ability and being able to launch
the deep you know, launch from deep and and and
be able to hit the three. And there's also a
little bit more balance of being able to be one
of the best assist men in in in in the NBA,
(03:55):
as we've seen over the last few years, but just
learning how to win. Sometimes it's not even just about
being able to make or not make big, big, big plays,
but just to know of how to play the game.
Some guys are great at playing the game. Some guys
are playing you know, know how to play basketball, but
do you know how to play I think sometimes makes
him a little bit different, and that's something that he
(04:15):
kind of about struggled with. But just things from what
I was able to notice your second question, And forgive
me because I think I missed that second part.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
Okay, Yeah, I was talking about, Uh, do you think
most coaches would rather have ability or stability?
Speaker 5 (04:37):
Uh? I like to say stability. If we're talking about
coach Calipari or somebody, it might be ability. But I
think I think stability, to be honest with you, but
and some of the best coaches, and it doesn't make
you know guys coaches who tend to just be lean
one way more than the other u less of a coach.
(05:00):
But some of the best coaches know how to be
able to get the balance of of of running a
program and having a system where you can get both.
In today's world and recruiting and everything else obviously is
probably a little bit different just because you need the players.
But now we're starting to trend towards in a place
where it's not about the five star freshmen coming in anymore.
(05:22):
That's going to give you a dress semester and then
after that they're going.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
To the league.
Speaker 5 (05:25):
It's about the guys who have established themselves in in
in in and in smaller high high major, mid major,
some even low major programs and be able to show
themselves on on a higher level on the collegiate level
based off the fact that they have the experience. And
that's what comes with a lot of the stability. So
(05:48):
I think that it's a good combination of both. But
I still think stability. Think about it, who's winning the
national championships right now when I'm on the collegiate level, Jack,
it's the it's the teams with the stability. The teams
then knows older teams that they've been here, players that
have been here before.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
Correct. Yeah. Yeah, And I'm thinking that before you can
win a championship, sometimes before you can win a big game,
you have to learn how not to lose that game,
because you can lose it a long time before you
actually win it. And I'm thinking that for a lot
of coaches, as you say that, they would want both,
(06:27):
they'd want the combination, but maybe it's easier if you
have a stability, someone who's not going to get you
beat to then improve the skill set, then have someone
who might win you a game but lose you something more.
Speaker 5 (06:43):
No, I agree with that. I think that there's just
a lot of examples of, you know, games that we've
seen in the past of teams that have you know,
we're able to get up be Let's just take for
an example, last year's Alabama and Georgia on the football side,
where one of the biggest games and just game watches
of the season last year where Alabama jumped out big,
(07:04):
humongous on Georgia and next thing, you know, Georgia comes
all the way back and then it gets into a
tight game and whatever else what have you. I think
that sometimes the knowing how not to sometimes, like you said,
plan to win versus playing that to lose, plays a
big part in that. I think that there's also a
difference in just some balance within having certain players on
(07:25):
your roster that will only help you win games and
will never help you lose games. And I think that's
when you know that you've really got something. A lot
of that goes into the coaching staff and recruiting and
everything else, film sessions, some of your you know, recruitment staff, coaches,
things of that nature, development, even coaches, but that plays
a big part because you have players literally that will
(07:48):
help you win games and everybody wants that right, but
will also help you lose games. And that's something that
you kind of have to be cognizant of. Within players,
some of the best ones that are very rare. And
I know I'm up and around a little bit, but
this is just a very fine example. Where we were
talking about Jason Richardson some weeks and months ago, is
that he has shown himself to own not going to
(08:09):
make a lot of mistakes DNA. We get it runs
in his bloodline, basketball and so forth. But being able
to be coachable, being able to have a listening ear,
doesn't think that he knows it all, and like I said,
doesn't make a lot of mistakes can only help you win.
Not going to make a lot of mistakes is going
to help you lose a basketball game. Sometimes it's not
(08:29):
even just about on the floor. That goes for off
the floor in decision making as well. Really shows the
maturity within that player.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
And James had a very mature game. You talk about
not making the big mistake, he was surprisingly big game
ready and wound up was one of the best freshman
years in Michigan State history. But I think if you
look at the body of work Sean, whether it's football
with Mark D'Antonio, I was talking to Courtney Hawks, who
(09:02):
became a ten year wide out in the NFL, and
his first year at Michigan State he didn't catch a pass.
Second year he caught sixty. I think about all the
guys that tom Izzo had, He had Draymond Green and
you know you're talking about Denzel Valentine, You're talk about
national players the year, guys who averaged three points a
(09:23):
game or five points a game their first year. So
sometimes it is a process. And maybe that's even true
in the NBA now, DeShawn, I'm looking at the best
players in the league right now. Go back and look
at the rookie years for Nikola Jokic, for Shay Gildas,
(09:45):
Alexander you know, Tyres Halliburton was certainly a sensation in
the playoffs. These aren't guys who didn't come out and
take the league by storm. But look at him now,
and you sure love to have him on your roster.
Speaker 5 (10:00):
And even if it's some older guys, jack like number
thirty Steph Curry himself, who dealt with some injuries, some
ankle injuries and just really didn't catch fire the way
that we know him to be right now, had some
of his own struggles at first coming into the league,
and that just goes to show, you know, some of
the development. But something that you mentioned about all of
those guys that you named is they came from really
(10:22):
good backgrounds, really really good coaching staff to help, you know,
essentially mold them, assist in molding them into the player
that they are today. And I think that you have
a good amount. You have to have a good amount
of that, and I'm glad that you mentioned something at
the beginning of this about Michigan State because there's a
(10:43):
lot of it is what you predicate yourself on Michigan
State being a program, and I'm not saying Michigan State
is the only one, but just use them for an example,
predicate themselves. I'm not just about going to get the
top guy right, going out to get the guy that
fits what you want, what you need and how you
want to build, you know, high character level guys, and
(11:06):
I think a lot of that certainly plays a big
part into it as well, because you are not only
as you know this, Tom azoll. I've said multiple times
that sure, we're trying to develop and establish a player
into being the kind of player that you know we
want and that they're going to be on the next
level forming their game into that, but also being really
(11:27):
good young men. And something that you named about all
of those guys that are in the NBA on that
level is high character guys, and I think that you
have to have some of that. Sure, raw talent and
all that stuff just is a part of it. The
potential and all that absolutely no question. But you also
have to have that high character to go along with
it as well as well, because your face with a
(11:48):
lot of different types of pressures and a lot of
just different things. And so I think that it definitely
takes a good bit of that and so much more
than just saying, oh, this guy's five star player, go
get him, or he was a McDonald's All American, or
he was the first team All Americans in college basketball,
he was the first team All conference guy. Sometimes things
(12:10):
playing into it a little bit differently when you're on
that scouting report and you're trying to and you're a
scout and you're for a team, and you need a
piece to fit you and may not always be the
most talented guy, but a guy instead that is going to,
you know, assist the top guys and keeping their cool
(12:31):
and just being that ideal piece to help that team
get to a higher level. Unfortunately, you don't hear nearly
as many stories about that guy, and that's why those
stories are so cool to me.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
Absolutely, that's a great point. I'm looking at the starts
for some guys who would be considered at the top
of their profession. Do you remember Patrick Mahomes rookie year
in the NFL.
Speaker 5 (12:57):
I can't say verbatim that I do.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
No, no one does you know why? Because he didn't play.
He sat and watched Alex Smith with Kansas City, and
then they said, okay, now he's ready, and they moved
Alex Smith and they put him in and no one
knew what he was capable of doing. But he didn't
do it the first year anymore than Valentine or Day
(13:22):
they did. And the same thing is true in baseball.
I'm just looking at a couple of these Aaron Judge, right,
I mean, you couldn't have a more dynamic career the
last couple of years than Aaron Judges had. You know
what he batted his rookie year?
Speaker 5 (13:40):
What is that? One?
Speaker 4 (13:42):
Seventy nine?
Speaker 5 (13:44):
Wow?
Speaker 4 (13:46):
How about Cal Roley, big dumper? His forty seven home runs?
He needs one to tie the all time record for
the best power season by a catcher, and he's going
to go blowing by that. He's going to go past fifty,
might get to sixty. But you know how many home
runs he had his first year and what he batted?
Speaker 5 (14:06):
How many?
Speaker 4 (14:07):
He had two home runs and he batted one.
Speaker 5 (14:09):
Eight Incredible, incredible incredible.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
I'm wondering if gun and you would know this better
than I would. Who have you seen come into the NBA?
Maybe bron Uh. Maybe there were a couple others who
came in and took the league by storm, maybe Alan
Iverson or certainly Urban, but not many guys came in
(14:36):
with no David Robinson, okay, would have been one who
came in and you knew immediately that didn't matter what Yeah, yes, absolutely,
but a lot of guys. It doesn't happen overnight.
Speaker 5 (14:54):
And even those guys go through their own challenges as well.
You know, you start pacting, and I mean some of
the best ones is when it comes to at least
what I pay attention to the most. Sometimes it's not
always about winging and losing. Sometimes it's about the mental
you know, sacrifice or just how strenuous it is. It
(15:16):
can be on the mind that overcoming injuries. You know,
that plays such a big part. I mean, we talk
so much, and of course I'm this part always kind
of you know, intrigues me a little bit because of
some personal things that I've dealt with within my family.
But we start talking about the mental health side of things,
and I'm sure that our buddy Lindsey Huddleston can even
(15:40):
attest to some of these things. Is when it starts
talking about the mental health part of things.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
That's not the.
Speaker 5 (15:44):
Easiest thing to be this guy who is the you know,
on this level, everybody was the best on their team
or what have you to be known as that guy
pretty much your whole life, or whatever the case may be.
Then you get to this stage and then you're just
a role player, respectfully, or you're a you know, fourth
or fifth scoring option, or you're a guy coming off
the bench, six man, whatever the case may be. Some
(16:06):
you're not used to that within itself, plays apart to
overcome some of the small what appears to be some
of the smaller things, even the traveling. I mean, what
is baseball. We were just talking about baseball about one
hundred and sixty two hundred and sixty eight games for
throwing out all. I mean basketball, you're in a different
time zone every other night. It feels like all of
these different things play apart, and all that goes into
(16:28):
what type of player that you're molded and shaped into
being because you have to know how to balance and
deal with so many of these different things. So I
think that you're spot on.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
May let me give you one other guy that you
have watched a ton Okay, and in terms of consistency, now,
it's hard to be better than Giannis on the Takupo. I.
You know, you're talking about eight straight years where he's
been pretty consistently great. You know what he did is
(16:58):
first year in the NBA. What's that He averaged eleven
point five points a game.
Speaker 5 (17:05):
Ye honest, we're talking about yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
Wow. You know, even the best of the best, with
very few exceptions, have that. So to say that Aiden
Giles last year, or or Bryce Underwood this year, who's
just the same timetable he just turned eighteen to think that,
you know, and actually Aiden was younger because he was
(17:33):
there when he was seventeen playing in games out at
Oregon State. But for a guy that age, they're eighteen
for a reason, it's not like you can expect them
to come out and handle everything, you know, it's these
are the best in the world at what they do,
so to expect someone to come in. That's why this
(17:56):
whole thing Dejon about prospects, right, Fred Human all says.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
Upside can't play well.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
You get some guy, and maybe he's a minor league phenom,
but other than in baseball, Rob, you can help me
with this show. Hey, right away, rookie year was MVP. Yep,
and each hero rookie.
Speaker 5 (18:17):
Year was MVP.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
That's about it for a guy who came in and
right out of the shoot, what's the best in the business.
Speaker 5 (18:29):
Well, I was gonna say, you, Jack, you take that
from especially from a guy. For example, you were talking
about Giannis, a guy who's not from this country. You're
there's already a language barrier there. I'm sure the wiry
body that he came in with. Now you are what
multiple time MVP, a world champion on top of that,
(18:50):
best defensive player in the league, if not in the
conversation for quite a few years, and able to do
it on both sides of the ball. Some guys are
just predicated based on one or the other. You get
somebody with that balance. We always talk about three and
D or not three and D, but a two way
players and all this and that that is the finest
definition of one and and the coachable guy when you're
(19:12):
talking about the character, the high character guy that he is,
the selfless guy that he is, the commitment the all
of those different things. I'm not sure that we're I mean,
people got to appreciate what we're able to see. I'm
gonna just throw this at you real quick as I
know we're up against it. I was having some conversations
with some friends of mine and asking them if you
could take one player in NBA history. And I'm not
(19:35):
saying nobody's gonna be fantastic at this, but who would
be the guy that you would feel the most confident
end that would be able to guard all five positions
and maybe anybody of any era in the NBA. And
I'm sure name Dennis Rodman came up is when I
came with. But you've got to mention your honest antokumpo,
(19:55):
who could play and defend just about as good as
all the fire positions that there is and can stop
maybe the best player in the world, or at least
contained to whatever to the best degree that anybody could.
He's in that conversation. I don't think he gets nearly
enough credit or talked about as you should sometimes.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
No, those are two at the top of the top
you talk about Dennis Rodman and Giannis. I would put
Scotty Pippen up there too. Certainly, Mike you think of
him as a great defender, but Scotty a little bit bigger.
I think Mike would have trouble for sure stopping a
lot of post players, and Pippin would be better at that.
But your point is very well taken. Hey, I have
(20:36):
to ask you, oh, before I do that, did you
hear the news about the SEC and football that just broke?
I don't.
Speaker 5 (20:43):
I would be very surprised if I didn't. Somehow I did.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
It, though. The SEC is finally looks like relenting and
going to a nine game conference season. This was the
big hole long about the revised playoff format, then insisted
that the SEC do this, and now it looks like
Greg Sankei has said, Okay, well, beginning with the twenty
(21:09):
twenty sixth season, we're going to go to a nine
game conference season. That means you won't have any of
these November blowout Yeah with me, you know, no one
could ever find so pretty interesting that the SEC would relent.
That shows how much they want this new playoff format.
(21:31):
But that what we want to know is are you
coming in to mid Michigan this week or next week?
Speaker 5 (21:39):
First of all, finding that you just hit me with
the sec stuff because I'm just now getting the breaking
news alerts. So good job on that, Jack. But flight
leaves tonight at nine forty p. Keep us in your prayers,
especially because I'm traveling with the two year old, that's
for sure, who's I'm sure going to be wiring up
on sugar and everything else. Leaving at nine forty p tonight,
getting in some time. I'm late tonight, around eleven thirty
(22:01):
by the time you close your eyes, which we know
Jack probably won't detail about five or six am when
the sun's coming up. By the time you open your
eyes back up, I'll be in the city. I'm really
excited about it. Definitely want to extend an invitation to
you as well about some stuff that we got going
on this weekend, specifically on tomorrow at Hawk Island Park,
and I'm really excited to be able to spend some
(22:25):
very quality and certainly needed time with some with some
family after the year that we've just had. But i
can't wait to be there. And you know, what I'm
looking for is probably more than anything, not just sirt pizza,
not just hungry howies all about that olive? Oh yeah,
I know you're salivating at the mouth. I know you are.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
Rob Is He thinks about Ala Berger's the same way
that Steven Brooks thinks about baseball.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Believe it or not.
Speaker 4 (22:58):
Oh my god, how many olive burgers have you had?
Have you ever had a good one?
Speaker 3 (23:04):
I had one. Well, I just don't like olives in general.
If it's just a regular I'm a hamburger type of guy,
I'm all about it. But the olives is what kills
it right there. And it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter
what type of all of it is. It's just I'm
an equal opportunity, all of hater.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
All right, Well, we will see you. I don't think
we'll be able to get there tomorrow afternoon for the
excitement at Auck Island, but we've got the show and
some other things going. But you'll be here Saturday, right, I'll.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
Be there Saturday. Grandma's turning ninety, so I think closer
to the evening time I won't be available, but we
can hook up a little bit before that, or maybe
even after. I'd love to.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
I'll tell you I was gonna say I will not
be there Saturday because and I'm not going to the
Lions preseason game. Saturday is my fiftieth wedding anniversary Robert
and I have. If I make it two more days
and she doesn't throw me out, that's fifty years.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Congratulations.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
So I'm thinking maybe maybe tomorrow night, when you're all
done with this store. You know, okay, okay, okay, as
long as you beat Sunrise, you're good with me. So
we'll figure out a way to get together. Maybe tomorrow
when the family festivities are done.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
I can't wait, Jack, and bring Boston Rob with you.
I know he can put down some some some good,
some adult beverages, so bring them on.
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Speaker 1 (26:44):
Jack Gamblin here and my good friend Matt Slaughter a
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Until next time, I'm your host, Dave Russell
Jack Kebling here with my good friend Matt Sloan a
graph of Okeemists. Big summer here, Matt.
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Speaker 1 (00:24):
Zero percent. Can't get much lower than that. That's exactly right,
Ffacy Matt in the gang here on West Grand River, Okamiz,
they're making bread.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
How about it? Talking about physical presence, What do you
think of our next guest having one of those?
Speaker 4 (00:37):
Oh? Absolutely, I mean, you know, I'm just I'm just
glad when I see him. You know, he doesn't dunk
on my head. That's we're talking about. Deshaun takes our
Lansing Bread Atlanta based basketball spot. It's takes take hoops
where basketball lives to shan How you.
Speaker 5 (00:55):
Doing dunk a chicken nugget into some dipping sauces? Probably
about the only thing I'll be dunk and Jack appreciate
you for having me as usual around this time every Thursday.
I'm grateful to be on with you. And I know
you were talking a little bit about aid and childs.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
You know that.
Speaker 5 (01:12):
I'll say this real quick, no super big football fishonado
or anything, go to person, what have you. But I
think that this year will find himself with a little
bit more balance. We'll see some of that. You know,
there were some instances where there were just it just
kind of felt like there were a lot of home
run plays that we saw that he tried to make,
(01:34):
and maybe not so much of the simpler ones, maybe
ones that you know, wouldn't get the oohs and odds,
and we'll go for some of the big players. But
I think we'll see a little bit more of a
balanced guy and a lot more of the potential that
everybody had been talking about when there were conversations first
starting about his transfer from Oregon State to Michigan State,
(01:55):
about how high of a potential NFL draft, all this
other stuff that they fall in love with, those agents
or front office men and so forth. I think we'll
see a little bit more flashes of that from him
this season. I can't wait and and by the way,
Jay a rematch some payback against Boston College because I'm
looking forward to.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
Yes, yes, that was one that got away. There were
two games last year, one in Chestnut Hill, Massachusetts and
one in ann Arbor that Michigan State controlled, if not
completely dominated, but certainly had the better of it and
didn't get the victory. When you think about a guy
(02:35):
like that who can make all the big plays, and
there were highlight plays last year to Shawn against Maryland
on the road in the upset of Iowa where you said, Wow,
this guy's really got the potential, and then he would
make the big mistake. I'm thinking about the parallel to basketball,
and you have a guy who's just oozing inability. He's
(02:58):
not quite ready for prime time. Do you think the
coaches would rather have a guy like that knowing what
the upside is, or rather have someone that they're more confident, Uh,
maybe more consistent, more stability.
Speaker 5 (03:14):
Off the top of my head, I'm not sure if
I know a player, but I will keep it right
here at my home where I'm based out of Sometimes
and again, the correlation might not be the same as
far as superstardom, but just from those individual you know questions. Sometimes.
It reminded me of of of Trey Young sometimes when
(03:35):
he came into the NBA level, where everybody raised so
much about his shooting ability and being able to launch
the deep you know, launch from deep and and and
be able to hit the three. And there's also a
little bit more balance of being able to be one
of the best assist men in in in in the NBA,
(03:55):
as we've seen over the last few years, but just
learning how to win. Sometimes it's not even just about
being able to make or not make big, big, big plays,
but just to know of how to play the game.
Some guys are great at playing the game. Some guys
are playing you know, know how to play basketball, but
do you know how to play I think sometimes makes
him a little bit different, and that's something that he
(04:15):
kind of about struggled with. But just things from what
I was able to notice your second question, And forgive
me because I think I missed that second part.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
Okay, Yeah, I was talking about, Uh, do you think
most coaches would rather have ability or stability?
Speaker 5 (04:37):
Uh? I like to say stability. If we're talking about
coach Calipari or somebody, it might be ability. But I
think I think stability, to be honest with you, but
and some of the best coaches, and it doesn't make
you know guys coaches who tend to just be lean
one way more than the other u less of a coach.
(05:00):
But some of the best coaches know how to be
able to get the balance of of of running a
program and having a system where you can get both.
In today's world and recruiting and everything else obviously is
probably a little bit different just because you need the players.
But now we're starting to trend towards in a place
where it's not about the five star freshmen coming in anymore.
(05:22):
That's going to give you a dress semester and then
after that they're going.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
To the league.
Speaker 5 (05:25):
It's about the guys who have established themselves in in
in in and in smaller high high major, mid major,
some even low major programs and be able to show
themselves on on a higher level on the collegiate level
based off the fact that they have the experience. And
that's what comes with a lot of the stability. So
(05:48):
I think that it's a good combination of both. But
I still think stability. Think about it, who's winning the
national championships right now when I'm on the collegiate level, Jack,
it's the it's the teams with the stability. The teams
then knows older teams that they've been here, players that
have been here before.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
Correct. Yeah. Yeah, And I'm thinking that before you can
win a championship, sometimes before you can win a big game,
you have to learn how not to lose that game,
because you can lose it a long time before you
actually win it. And I'm thinking that for a lot
of coaches, as you say that, they would want both,
(06:27):
they'd want the combination, but maybe it's easier if you
have a stability, someone who's not going to get you
beat to then improve the skill set, then have someone
who might win you a game but lose you something more.
Speaker 5 (06:43):
No, I agree with that. I think that there's just
a lot of examples of, you know, games that we've
seen in the past of teams that have you know,
we're able to get up be Let's just take for
an example, last year's Alabama and Georgia on the football side,
where one of the biggest games and just game watches
of the season last year where Alabama jumped out big,
(07:04):
humongous on Georgia and next thing, you know, Georgia comes
all the way back and then it gets into a
tight game and whatever else what have you. I think
that sometimes the knowing how not to sometimes, like you said,
plan to win versus playing that to lose, plays a
big part in that. I think that there's also a
difference in just some balance within having certain players on
(07:25):
your roster that will only help you win games and
will never help you lose games. And I think that's
when you know that you've really got something. A lot
of that goes into the coaching staff and recruiting and
everything else, film sessions, some of your you know, recruitment staff, coaches,
things of that nature, development, even coaches, but that plays
a big part because you have players literally that will
(07:48):
help you win games and everybody wants that right, but
will also help you lose games. And that's something that
you kind of have to be cognizant of. Within players,
some of the best ones that are very rare. And
I know I'm up and around a little bit, but
this is just a very fine example. Where we were
talking about Jason Richardson some weeks and months ago, is
that he has shown himself to own not going to
(08:09):
make a lot of mistakes DNA. We get it runs
in his bloodline, basketball and so forth. But being able
to be coachable, being able to have a listening ear,
doesn't think that he knows it all, and like I said,
doesn't make a lot of mistakes can only help you win.
Not going to make a lot of mistakes is going
to help you lose a basketball game. Sometimes it's not
(08:29):
even just about on the floor. That goes for off
the floor in decision making as well. Really shows the
maturity within that player.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
And James had a very mature game. You talk about
not making the big mistake, he was surprisingly big game
ready and wound up was one of the best freshman
years in Michigan State history. But I think if you
look at the body of work Sean, whether it's football
with Mark D'Antonio, I was talking to Courtney Hawks, who
(09:02):
became a ten year wide out in the NFL, and
his first year at Michigan State he didn't catch a pass.
Second year he caught sixty. I think about all the
guys that tom Izzo had, He had Draymond Green and
you know you're talking about Denzel Valentine, You're talk about
national players the year, guys who averaged three points a
(09:23):
game or five points a game their first year. So
sometimes it is a process. And maybe that's even true
in the NBA now, DeShawn, I'm looking at the best
players in the league right now. Go back and look
at the rookie years for Nikola Jokic, for Shay Gildas,
(09:45):
Alexander you know, Tyres Halliburton was certainly a sensation in
the playoffs. These aren't guys who didn't come out and
take the league by storm. But look at him now,
and you sure love to have him on your roster.
Speaker 5 (10:00):
And even if it's some older guys, jack like number
thirty Steph Curry himself, who dealt with some injuries, some
ankle injuries and just really didn't catch fire the way
that we know him to be right now, had some
of his own struggles at first coming into the league,
and that just goes to show, you know, some of
the development. But something that you mentioned about all of
those guys that you named is they came from really
(10:22):
good backgrounds, really really good coaching staff to help, you know,
essentially mold them, assist in molding them into the player
that they are today. And I think that you have
a good amount. You have to have a good amount
of that, and I'm glad that you mentioned something at
the beginning of this about Michigan State because there's a
(10:43):
lot of it is what you predicate yourself on Michigan
State being a program, and I'm not saying Michigan State
is the only one, but just use them for an example,
predicate themselves. I'm not just about going to get the
top guy right, going out to get the guy that
fits what you want, what you need and how you
want to build, you know, high character level guys, and
(11:06):
I think a lot of that certainly plays a big
part into it as well, because you are not only
as you know this, Tom azoll. I've said multiple times
that sure, we're trying to develop and establish a player
into being the kind of player that you know we
want and that they're going to be on the next
level forming their game into that, but also being really
(11:27):
good young men. And something that you named about all
of those guys that are in the NBA on that
level is high character guys, and I think that you
have to have some of that. Sure, raw talent and
all that stuff just is a part of it. The
potential and all that absolutely no question. But you also
have to have that high character to go along with
it as well as well, because your face with a
(11:48):
lot of different types of pressures and a lot of
just different things. And so I think that it definitely
takes a good bit of that and so much more
than just saying, oh, this guy's five star player, go
get him, or he was a McDonald's All American, or
he was the first team All Americans in college basketball,
he was the first team All conference guy. Sometimes things
(12:10):
playing into it a little bit differently when you're on
that scouting report and you're trying to and you're a
scout and you're for a team, and you need a
piece to fit you and may not always be the
most talented guy, but a guy instead that is going to,
you know, assist the top guys and keeping their cool
(12:31):
and just being that ideal piece to help that team
get to a higher level. Unfortunately, you don't hear nearly
as many stories about that guy, and that's why those
stories are so cool to me.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
Absolutely, that's a great point. I'm looking at the starts
for some guys who would be considered at the top
of their profession. Do you remember Patrick Mahomes rookie year
in the NFL.
Speaker 5 (12:57):
I can't say verbatim that I do.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
No, no one does you know why? Because he didn't play.
He sat and watched Alex Smith with Kansas City, and
then they said, okay, now he's ready, and they moved
Alex Smith and they put him in and no one
knew what he was capable of doing. But he didn't
do it the first year anymore than Valentine or Day
(13:22):
they did. And the same thing is true in baseball.
I'm just looking at a couple of these Aaron Judge, right,
I mean, you couldn't have a more dynamic career the
last couple of years than Aaron Judges had. You know
what he batted his rookie year?
Speaker 5 (13:40):
What is that? One?
Speaker 4 (13:42):
Seventy nine?
Speaker 5 (13:44):
Wow?
Speaker 4 (13:46):
How about Cal Roley, big dumper? His forty seven home runs?
He needs one to tie the all time record for
the best power season by a catcher, and he's going
to go blowing by that. He's going to go past fifty,
might get to sixty. But you know how many home
runs he had his first year and what he batted?
Speaker 5 (14:06):
How many?
Speaker 4 (14:07):
He had two home runs and he batted one.
Speaker 5 (14:09):
Eight Incredible, incredible incredible.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
I'm wondering if gun and you would know this better
than I would. Who have you seen come into the NBA?
Maybe bron Uh. Maybe there were a couple others who
came in and took the league by storm, maybe Alan
Iverson or certainly Urban, but not many guys came in
(14:36):
with no David Robinson, okay, would have been one who
came in and you knew immediately that didn't matter what Yeah, yes, absolutely,
but a lot of guys. It doesn't happen overnight.
Speaker 5 (14:54):
And even those guys go through their own challenges as well.
You know, you start pacting, and I mean some of
the best ones is when it comes to at least
what I pay attention to the most. Sometimes it's not
always about winging and losing. Sometimes it's about the mental
you know, sacrifice or just how strenuous it is. It
(15:16):
can be on the mind that overcoming injuries. You know,
that plays such a big part. I mean, we talk
so much, and of course I'm this part always kind
of you know, intrigues me a little bit because of
some personal things that I've dealt with within my family.
But we start talking about the mental health side of things,
and I'm sure that our buddy Lindsey Huddleston can even
(15:40):
attest to some of these things. Is when it starts
talking about the mental health part of things.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
That's not the.
Speaker 5 (15:44):
Easiest thing to be this guy who is the you know,
on this level, everybody was the best on their team
or what have you to be known as that guy
pretty much your whole life, or whatever the case may be.
Then you get to this stage and then you're just
a role player, respectfully, or you're a you know, fourth
or fifth scoring option, or you're a guy coming off
the bench, six man, whatever the case may be. Some
(16:06):
you're not used to that within itself, plays apart to
overcome some of the small what appears to be some
of the smaller things, even the traveling. I mean, what
is baseball. We were just talking about baseball about one
hundred and sixty two hundred and sixty eight games for
throwing out all. I mean basketball, you're in a different
time zone every other night. It feels like all of
these different things play apart, and all that goes into
(16:28):
what type of player that you're molded and shaped into
being because you have to know how to balance and
deal with so many of these different things. So I
think that you're spot on.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
May let me give you one other guy that you
have watched a ton Okay, and in terms of consistency, now,
it's hard to be better than Giannis on the Takupo. I.
You know, you're talking about eight straight years where he's
been pretty consistently great. You know what he did is
(16:58):
first year in the NBA. What's that He averaged eleven
point five points a game.
Speaker 5 (17:05):
Ye honest, we're talking about yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
Wow. You know, even the best of the best, with
very few exceptions, have that. So to say that Aiden
Giles last year, or or Bryce Underwood this year, who's
just the same timetable he just turned eighteen to think that,
you know, and actually Aiden was younger because he was
(17:33):
there when he was seventeen playing in games out at
Oregon State. But for a guy that age, they're eighteen
for a reason, it's not like you can expect them
to come out and handle everything, you know, it's these
are the best in the world at what they do,
so to expect someone to come in. That's why this
(17:56):
whole thing Dejon about prospects, right, Fred Human all says.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
Upside can't play well.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
You get some guy, and maybe he's a minor league phenom,
but other than in baseball, Rob, you can help me
with this show. Hey, right away, rookie year was MVP. Yep,
and each hero rookie.
Speaker 5 (18:17):
Year was MVP.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
That's about it for a guy who came in and
right out of the shoot, what's the best in the business.
Speaker 5 (18:29):
Well, I was gonna say, you, Jack, you take that
from especially from a guy. For example, you were talking
about Giannis, a guy who's not from this country. You're
there's already a language barrier there. I'm sure the wiry
body that he came in with. Now you are what
multiple time MVP, a world champion on top of that,
(18:50):
best defensive player in the league, if not in the
conversation for quite a few years, and able to do
it on both sides of the ball. Some guys are
just predicated based on one or the other. You get
somebody with that balance. We always talk about three and
D or not three and D, but a two way
players and all this and that that is the finest
definition of one and and the coachable guy when you're
(19:12):
talking about the character, the high character guy that he is,
the selfless guy that he is, the commitment the all
of those different things. I'm not sure that we're I mean,
people got to appreciate what we're able to see. I'm
gonna just throw this at you real quick as I
know we're up against it. I was having some conversations
with some friends of mine and asking them if you
could take one player in NBA history. And I'm not
(19:35):
saying nobody's gonna be fantastic at this, but who would
be the guy that you would feel the most confident
end that would be able to guard all five positions
and maybe anybody of any era in the NBA. And
I'm sure name Dennis Rodman came up is when I
came with. But you've got to mention your honest antokumpo,
(19:55):
who could play and defend just about as good as
all the fire positions that there is and can stop
maybe the best player in the world, or at least
contained to whatever to the best degree that anybody could.
He's in that conversation. I don't think he gets nearly
enough credit or talked about as you should sometimes.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
No, those are two at the top of the top
you talk about Dennis Rodman and Giannis. I would put
Scotty Pippen up there too. Certainly, Mike you think of
him as a great defender, but Scotty a little bit bigger.
I think Mike would have trouble for sure stopping a
lot of post players, and Pippin would be better at that.
But your point is very well taken. Hey, I have
(20:36):
to ask you, oh, before I do that, did you
hear the news about the SEC and football that just broke?
I don't.
Speaker 5 (20:43):
I would be very surprised if I didn't. Somehow I did.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
It, though. The SEC is finally looks like relenting and
going to a nine game conference season. This was the
big hole long about the revised playoff format, then insisted
that the SEC do this, and now it looks like
Greg Sankei has said, Okay, well, beginning with the twenty
(21:09):
twenty sixth season, we're going to go to a nine
game conference season. That means you won't have any of
these November blowout Yeah with me, you know, no one
could ever find so pretty interesting that the SEC would relent.
That shows how much they want this new playoff format.
(21:31):
But that what we want to know is are you
coming in to mid Michigan this week or next week?
Speaker 5 (21:39):
First of all, finding that you just hit me with
the sec stuff because I'm just now getting the breaking
news alerts. So good job on that, Jack. But flight
leaves tonight at nine forty p. Keep us in your prayers,
especially because I'm traveling with the two year old, that's
for sure, who's I'm sure going to be wiring up
on sugar and everything else. Leaving at nine forty p tonight,
getting in some time. I'm late tonight, around eleven thirty
(22:01):
by the time you close your eyes, which we know
Jack probably won't detail about five or six am when
the sun's coming up. By the time you open your
eyes back up, I'll be in the city. I'm really
excited about it. Definitely want to extend an invitation to
you as well about some stuff that we got going
on this weekend, specifically on tomorrow at Hawk Island Park,
and I'm really excited to be able to spend some
(22:25):
very quality and certainly needed time with some with some
family after the year that we've just had. But i
can't wait to be there. And you know, what I'm
looking for is probably more than anything, not just sirt pizza,
not just hungry howies all about that olive? Oh yeah,
I know you're salivating at the mouth. I know you are.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
Rob Is He thinks about Ala Berger's the same way
that Steven Brooks thinks about baseball.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Believe it or not.
Speaker 4 (22:58):
Oh my god, how many olive burgers have you had?
Have you ever had a good one?
Speaker 3 (23:04):
I had one. Well, I just don't like olives in general.
If it's just a regular I'm a hamburger type of guy,
I'm all about it. But the olives is what kills
it right there. And it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter
what type of all of it is. It's just I'm
an equal opportunity, all of hater.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
All right, Well, we will see you. I don't think
we'll be able to get there tomorrow afternoon for the
excitement at Auck Island, but we've got the show and
some other things going. But you'll be here Saturday, right, I'll.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
Be there Saturday. Grandma's turning ninety, so I think closer
to the evening time I won't be available, but we
can hook up a little bit before that, or maybe
even after. I'd love to.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
I'll tell you I was gonna say I will not
be there Saturday because and I'm not going to the
Lions preseason game. Saturday is my fiftieth wedding anniversary Robert
and I have. If I make it two more days
and she doesn't throw me out, that's fifty years.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Congratulations.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
So I'm thinking maybe maybe tomorrow night, when you're all
done with this store. You know, okay, okay, okay, as
long as you beat Sunrise, you're good with me. So
we'll figure out a way to get together. Maybe tomorrow
when the family festivities are done.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
I can't wait, Jack, and bring Boston Rob with you.
I know he can put down some some some good,
some adult beverages, so bring them on.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
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Speaker 7 (25:44):
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clean and inspected?
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Right?
Speaker 7 (25:49):
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Speaker 1 (26:44):
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Speaker 1 (27:07):
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Speaker 3 (27:09):
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Speaker 1 (27:11):
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Speaker 8 (27:17):
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New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!