Ep. 2879 Thursday

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:10):
This is it right here.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Combining a team of reporters, columnists and commentators.

Speaker 3 (00:16):
Are you serious?

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Jack Ebling has brought thought provoking discussion.

Speaker 4 (00:20):
What are you doing?

Speaker 5 (00:22):
That's a day in coaching your sake?

Speaker 3 (00:23):
Opinion customer, the.

Speaker 6 (00:25):
One who decides when the future gets here?

Speaker 4 (00:27):
Oh?

Speaker 7 (00:27):
No, check the report?

Speaker 4 (00:33):
Are you kurring me? Jack?

Speaker 8 (00:34):
Games next and overall infotainment.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
I'll think Kim Marva, who is done?

Speaker 9 (00:39):
Grease?

Speaker 3 (00:40):
Go to coming a quiet please, and exactly fifteen seconds
we'll be.

Speaker 7 (00:47):
On the air.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
Thanks, big fellow. Don't you ever come back here again?
No arguments. Those are called ashtans. So buckle up.

Speaker 5 (00:53):
You're talking to me.

Speaker 8 (00:55):
It's time for the Drive with Jack Ebling.

Speaker 6 (00:58):
Yeah, another who signed a little cola Radio.

Speaker 3 (01:06):
Great afternoon at Michigan and beyond, and welcome to the
Drive with Jack Spotlight Radio Network. Jack Eblin here with
my producer Boston Rob on Thursday afternoon. Seventy seven degrees
here and cloudy in mid Michigan. I'm going to get
into the eighties tomorrow, but that might be it for

(01:26):
the year. Looking at some of the temperature is going
to be very cool over the next week and a
half or so, and we have tons to talk about today,
including college football, which is now eight days away for
Michigan State, nine days for the University of Michigan. Want
to welcome in. Tony Garcia does a great job of

(01:48):
covering Wolverine for the Detroit Free Press. Tony, how are you, Jack?

Speaker 10 (01:54):
I'm well, I saw the same weather you didn't. I'm
going to miss the eighties.

Speaker 6 (01:59):
But so that is a good Constellation prize.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yes, and a lot of times, especially with high school teams, Tony,
there's a concern about taking proper precautions for heat. I
haven't had to worry too much about that this year,
so it's a It's a little bit refreshing. High school
is also getting underway. They're active in every other sport
now except football. Has the Wolverines prepare for this season

(02:29):
opener against New Mexico, We know that Seroan Moore will
be on the Sideline's still not one hundred percent sure
if he'll be on the sideline for the twenty twenty
sixth game opening game in Germany, right against Western Michigan.
Is that right? That is right, That's exactly right. Okay,

(02:50):
But we know that for the first two games this
year he will be leading the Wolverines from what you know,
from what you've heard. I was gonna say from what
you've seen, but that's probably not appropriate. How do you
think this team's progress is progressing with a lot of
new faces?

Speaker 10 (03:09):
You know, I think they are feeling pretty good about themselves,
and I mean to be the next team that isn't
feeling good about themselves in full camp, maybe the first
at any level. As we know, this is the season
of optimism. But there's plenty of reason to be optimistic.
I mean especially, I think it starts on the defense.
With this team. They are legitimately ten deep when you're

(03:33):
talking about the defensive tackles and the edges. Their linebackers.
I just wrote today it'll be on online in freak
dot com in the morning. Their linebackers might be the
most underrated group. They return a couple of four year
players starters really and Ernest Houseman and Jayshawn Barram. They
both transferred in Housemen from Nebraska, barm from Maryland, but

(03:54):
now they've been here multiple years and in the secondary.
While there are not some of the same I end faces,
there's no Mikey Saner. Still there's no Will Johnson. Uh there.
There there are some dudes back there, Tevis Metcalf who
came from Arkansas, Jay R. Hill, who they're expecting big
things from in his second year as a starter, Zeke

(04:15):
Berry who can move in and out. Mason Curtis, I
think is kind of a sleeper name in the in
the safety position. He's six four two five, big rangy kid,
and uh and I think just most importantly, this is
their second year under the defensive coaching staff. Wink Martindale
was in his first year as a DC. Last year,

(04:37):
you had, I mean all the way from the back
to the front. Lamar Morgan first year's defensive backs coach,
Luis Posito, first year's defensive line coach, Brian Jean Marie,
first year's linebackers coach. Now they all come back in
that cohesion, I think really cannot be overstated. So Michigan
feels good about that. And then of course, when you
have the announced the impending announcement of Bryce Underwood, you

(04:59):
start quarterback, the passing game cannot be worse than it
was last year. And so when you when you feel
that way, it seems like the only way to go,
at least at that particular spot is up.

Speaker 3 (05:13):
I have seen some rankings, obviously just speculative, of the
eighteen Big Ten quarterbacks this year, and I've seen Rice
Underwood as high as I want to say fifth, maybe
maybe he got the fourth on one list and it's
low as ten. Do you think he's in the upper
half of Big Ten quarterbacks even though he's never taken

(05:35):
a snap.

Speaker 10 (05:38):
In terms of raw talent, Yes, yes I do.

Speaker 3 (05:42):
But in terms of what I think you for twenty
twenty five, no, I mean, I mean.

Speaker 10 (05:49):
I think he'll finish. I think if he finishes in
the top halt, then Michigan's going to be looking at
a very potential college football playoff birth. But if he's
middled the packer below it, it could be sort of
an eight and four kind of season. I mean, it
really depends what they're asking him to do. It depends
how this offensive line comes together and how much they

(06:09):
are able to lean on the run game. If they
can insulate him the way they did JJ McCarthy and
use Jordan Marshall and Justice Hans is sort of a
Blake Korum and the Donovan Edwards or Hassan Haskins or
whoever you want to equate it to claud Mullings as well.
I mean, if you can really sort of pound the
rock and take terms on the ground, then that really

(06:33):
opens things up for Bryce. But I mean if you're
going to ask him to drop back throw the ball
twenty five thirty times a game, I think that also
opens up more opportunity for mistakes. I mean we saw
and I know all your listeners in your area saw
Aiden Child last year, right, I mean, super talented, big

(06:53):
arm mobile pliney of upside, but just got bit by
the turnover bug. And whether that was fumble, whether that
would picks, whether that was the untimely decision, and that
is I mean the big ten. That is the difference
between make or break in some of these close games,
and I think something that people are kind of underestimating
in terms of Michigan. This year, Michigan was five and

(07:15):
one in one score games. Last year there were three
and four in the other games. And so if you're
going and now, they did not have a quarterback who
helped in any of those games. So that's probably why
they were in so many coast games. But because of
the defense, because of the special teams, they were able
to come out on the right side eighty three percent

(07:35):
of the time. So if Bryce underwood is doesn't make mistake,
then I think they can continue to sort of kind
of eke some of these games out. It's going to
be about minimizing mistakes for Bryce in year one.

Speaker 3 (07:48):
When we talk about the wanted Michigan running game, and
we've seen that bail them out a number of times. Certainly,
what Khalil Mullings did against you USC and Ohio State
can't be overstated. But what about this offensive line. I'm
not sure I'm seeing the same proven efficiency there. Not

(08:11):
to think that they're ever going to be bad necessarily,
but that program was used to Joe Moore Award winning
offensive lines. And I heard that one of their projected
starters are regulars two freshmen, five star tackle was injured.

(08:32):
I don't know what his status is. What can you
tell me about the old line?

Speaker 10 (08:36):
Yeah, I mean you said it exactly right. I mean,
twenty one two Joe More Award winners, is the best
line in the nation. Twenty twenty three they were semi finalists,
and ironically that was the year they won it all. Well,
last year you said you don't know if they're going
to be bad. I wouldn't say they were bad last year.
I would say that was a below average line last year.
I mean it was really really trying. They didn't create holding,

(08:57):
the run blocking and the pass blocking certainly left play
to be desired as well. But the man you're speaking
of is Andrew Babolola.

Speaker 3 (09:05):
He was a top.

Speaker 10 (09:05):
Fifteen overall recruit in the country regardless of position, a
top three offensive tackle. He was pushing Evan Link for
the starting spot at that left tackle role. Now, I
think I had said on this show, and I know
I've said it on others in my writing on Freak
dot com. I mean, the expectation was for Evan Link
to win that battle early on, just because of experience,

(09:28):
but Babelola was so athletic he I mean, I think
many people were sort of expecting him by the middle
of the season. It's definitely factor into this line. And
now nothing official has come out, but I've spoke to
some sources around the program. It does sound like it's
I mean, it's a knee injury. He sustained it in practice,
and it does sound like it could be season ending.

(09:51):
So that is a that is a massive blow. There's
no doubt about that.

Speaker 3 (09:54):
For the line.

Speaker 10 (09:55):
And now the question is how does that shuffle things right?
Because Blake Frasier, the son of Steve Frader, who was
on the ninety seven Michigan National championship team, he had
moved to the right side to back up andrews Brigg.
Maybe you bump him back to the left side, and
then there were four people deep at right guard.

Speaker 3 (10:14):
It was sort of the rotation.

Speaker 10 (10:16):
I wonder if you maybe move someone like a Brady
Norton who came from Sacramento State, who was who was
at tackle at the Division two level. But they're not
quite sure he has the requisite side to play that
now out of necessity, is he going to be maybe
the second tackle.

Speaker 3 (10:32):
I mean it could be less, could be right.

Speaker 10 (10:34):
He's working at right guard right now, so maybe you'd
think he'd back up the right tackle. But it's just
sort of it's just another place where you got to
start shuffling things and makes them a little bit center.
But I mean you really feel for him. I spoke
to Andrew a couple of times this summer. I mean,
super polite. He's a yes, sir kind of kid. I mean,
unbelievably talented, only played two years of high school football

(10:55):
and was a top fifteen recruit in the nation. So
I mean, that's the type of an athlete you're talking
them out, so really tough blow, and that's kind of
why I led this conversation with I don't know. I mean,
it's hard to say what Bryce is going to be
because so much of it is dependent on this line.
But the interior Greg Crippen at center, gool Hatty at
left guard, those are some familiar faces. They've started last year,

(11:20):
so they took their lumps, and I would expect them
to take somewhat of a step forward, but I don't
know that they're going to be that vintage Michigan line
that we had seen in their heyday from twenty one
to twenty three.

Speaker 3 (11:35):
Tony, I've asked a lot of Big ten writers and
broadcasters this question, and I'm a little surprised that the
answers I've gotten. If you had a choice right now,
and you could pick a quarterback to represent your team
and to be on the field from day one, would
you rather line up with Bryce Underwood this year or

(11:57):
Aiden Childs.

Speaker 10 (12:00):
You know, I think you did ask me this one
once and it confounded me. It's a really good question.
I want to try to stay consistent. If I remember
what I was thinking, I did say Aiden Chiles just
because he has taken those lumps last year, right, I
mean he has he has a full year under his
belt as a starter. Not to mention, I mean the

(12:23):
recks he got at Oregon State he's now playing.

Speaker 3 (12:25):
I mean Bryce Underwood.

Speaker 10 (12:26):
Turned eighteen on Tuesday, and I know that Chiles is young,
but he's been in college football for two full years.
He's been a starter. He's been the guy, uh and
he has he has been there and done that. Now
it wasn't it wasn't what he hoped for. I mean
I remember speaking to him over the summer when I
got to see him and Bryce worked out downtown Detroit,

(12:46):
and there was there was a quiet stoicism about him,
sort of like I'm ready to really show people like
what the real Aiden Childs is. And so in that regard,
I think I would I would take Ayden. But if
you're saying maybe two years from now, I think Bryce
Underwood does have the higher upside, But I don't know

(13:07):
that you're going to be able to get all of
the upside out of a true freshman quarterback.

Speaker 3 (13:13):
Yeah, Tony I think both of these guys. Success is
going to be to some degree dependent on the offensive line,
as you suggested, but I think also it's going to
be dependent on the receiving corps. And Michigan State does
have Nick marsh there and two other players. Don't ask me,
how are on the Bolitnikoff watch list. Who is Michigan's

(13:40):
go to guy now that they don't have Colston Lovelin,
who was really single handedly the reason I think they
may beat Michigan State a year ago.

Speaker 10 (13:50):
Yeah, no, I would agree with you there. There's no
question it's Donovan McCully. He is. They gave him the
number one jersey, which, as you know at Michigan is
a very notable thing. He came in from Indiana six
foot five, two hundred and five pounds a couple of

(14:10):
years ago. I don't have the exact numbers in front
of me, but he had something like fifty or sixty
grabs for six hundred and forty four yards, I want
to say, and maybe six touchdowns. I mean, he's a
proven guy who has excelled at the Big ten level.
He actually started as a quarterback. He was once a
quarterback for Indiana before he moved to wide receiver. And

(14:32):
then in the year that Michigan beat I mean beat
Indiana at the Big House. They beat him like forty
nine to seven, forty four TOCN in something like that.
Indiana went up seven to nothing when Donovan McCauley threw
a trick play touchdown, Like they threw a lateral pass
to him behind the line of scrimmage and he threw
a forty five yard bomb down the field. So I
would not be surprised if Johnathan McCully throws for a

(14:54):
touchdown this year, that'd be maybe one of my bold
predictions is that he has a passing touchdown. But he's
a big target. He's got great body control. We saw
it a little bit in the spring game, even though
he only played a quarter. I mean, he just went
up and he mossed two defenders when they were draped
all over him. Had had like a twenty one yard pickup.
So I would expect him to certainly be the alpha

(15:17):
of this receiver room. And then beyond that, it is
a host of people. I mean you could make I
mean you could make the case for a number of people.
I would maybe pick Marlin Klein, who is sort of
the Colston Loveland Light. He was Loveland's backup last year.
Just because Michigan utilizes their tight ends so frequently, you
got guys like Fred Moore and Sam Morgan who are

(15:38):
now juniors. Andrew Marsh was the highest rated freshman wide
receiver recruits that Michigan's brought in some Sonoman people's jones.
In twenty seventeen, they added a speedster from UMAs and
Anthony Simpson. They got Kendrick Bell, the younger brother of
Ronnie Bell. I mean, there's just a lot of options here,
so the number one is pretty clear. After that, it's

(15:59):
sort of just pull a name.

Speaker 3 (16:01):
From the hat. Okay, I'm just looking up Donovan McCully
and you're absolutely right. Is freshman year he was thirty
five for eighty two passing, so that's probably about forty
five percent four und seventy five yards, two tds, two interceptions.

(16:22):
But looking at his receiving after he switched before the
twenty twenty two season, first year, he had sixteen catches
for one hundred and sixty nine yards and a score,
and he was just learning the position. Then in twenty
twenty three, you could see the upgrade forty eight catches
for six hundred and forty four yards. That's not a ton,

(16:44):
but it's still significant. A six touchdowns all big tent
honorable mention. And then he went into transfer portal, but
he came back, left when Tom Allen was fired, came
back when Signetti came in, and then he left Indiana
again midway through the season. And last year he had

(17:06):
two catches for twenty one yards. Does he talked about
what happened there? Was he injured? Yeah?

Speaker 10 (17:12):
I think he got a little bit banged up Week one.
I don't know that it's anything that would have kept
him out the entirety of the season. But I mean,
as you remember, Signetty brought in all of James Madison
with him, right, it was it was it was a
new system. I think he sort of felt like, I mean,
he was ready to transfer out initially, then kind of
got lured back into the idea of what it could be.

(17:35):
But then once he got banged up and realized he
wasn't going to be one hundred percent, I think he
was really he was like, all right, maybe maybe a
greener pastors are out there for me, and he was
ready to commit somewhere else, and so he's looking to
I mean, he's like he understands what it means to
wear the number one. In ann Arbor, I mean guys

(17:56):
like Anthony Carter, guys like Marquise Walker, spray On Edwards,
of course. I mean there was from ninety nine to
two thousand and eight or to two thousand and seven,
those in those nine years Michigan had a thousand yard receiver.
Eight of those nine years, think two thousand and seven,
there has been exactly one one thousand yard receiver for Michigan,

(18:18):
and now with Jeremy Gallen in twenty thirteen, so it
has been a long long time. It's been twelve years
in a row one time in the last seventeen years
after doing it eight of nine. So he knows the
expectation that he is supposed to be the alpha of
this room.

Speaker 3 (18:35):
You mentioned Indiana parallel here, and I think this is interesting.
I'm curious which team is going to win more games,
Not which one has a better team, or which one
won last year or any of that, but which team
might win more games, Michigan or Indiana. Indiana has a
cake schedule again. Tony Old Dominion Tennathaw State and Indiana

(19:04):
State and the Big Ten schedule is not particularly rigorous either.
I think Michigan has a fairly favorable, big dense schedule,
but does have that game against Oklahoma, and in norma
that's probably pretty close to it costs up. You're convinced
that Michigan's going to have more wins at the end

(19:26):
than Indiana, Well.

Speaker 10 (19:29):
Well, I'd be curious if you're willing to. I'd love
for you to read me Indiana's schedule because as they
give you some time to pull it up. I mean,
I see four potential.

Speaker 3 (19:38):
Losses for Michigan.

Speaker 10 (19:40):
I mean, certainly four potential losses Oklahoma, Nebraska on the road,
USC on the road, and Ohio State and now I
mean depending on how they fare early in the season
or even how Michigan State looks. I mean, I don't
think that it is entirely impossible by any means that Michigan.

Speaker 3 (19:59):
State wins game.

Speaker 10 (20:00):
Now right now, I'm certainly picking Michigan to win the game,
but you just sort of wonder. I mean, it feels
like Michigan State really let one slip away there last year,
and now maybe if Jonathan Smith has learned a little
bit more about that rivalry, if MSU does sort of
have these receivers they think they have. If Aiden Childs
does take the step, if the offensive line is improved,

(20:24):
the game is inn Et Lansing, and it hasn't mattered
much the last couple times, but historically it has, so
I mean, I mean there is a case. I mean,
I did a best case, worst case scenario for Michigan
football that's going to be coming out on freek dot
com I think later this week or early in the
next as part of our preview series, And I mean

(20:46):
I could see Michigan going anywhere from seven and six
if the wheels fall completely off to there is a
scenario where there are eleven and zero going into the
Ohio State game in the last week. I mean, it
is I mean, there is that much unknown, and there's
not that many times I see a team with a
four game swing, But I just think Oklahoma is such

(21:09):
a toss up, Nebraska is such a toss up. USC
is such a toss up that it really could go
either way. And that's why I sort of end up
split in the middle, and I think they they end
up about nine to three.

Speaker 3 (21:22):
Yeah, I agree with you. You mentioned the home field advantage,
not mattering as much as some people would think, they
didn't naturally assume well their way, they don't have a
chance in this series. I think the away team in Michigan,
Michigan State had done pretty well. Certainly two years ago,
Michigan came in and just ransacked the place. Last year

(21:46):
Michigan State controlled the game and figured out how to
lose it. And twenty twenty Michigan State went in and
the COVID year, I guess we can't count that entirely.
Twenty twenty one was the one where maybe it mattered.
It was that that classic Kenneth Walker game, and if
that had been played in Anna or I think you
might have a different outcome. But let me give you

(22:08):
this Indiana schedule quick I mentioned the three they I'll
be stunned if they're not three and oh. After hosting
Old Dominion, Kennesaw State, and Indiana State, then the mean
of their Big ten schedule is right at the stunt.
They host Illinois, and I think Illinois dance to be

(22:29):
pretty good this year, really sick. Then they're on the
road at Iowa. That's another what Jared and I'll calls matchup.
Then they're going to get their most likely lost. I
would think they're going to go to Oregon. Then it
gets a lot softer. They get Michigan State coming in,

(22:49):
Ucla coming in, They're at Maryland, they do have they
do have a game at Penn State, so that's another
loss you assume. And then it finishes up with a
probable win over Wisconsin and then be down up Purdue.
So yeah, they could be eight and four nine and
it sounds like they would have very similar records to Michigan.

Speaker 10 (23:13):
Yeah, yeah, I can I can see four losses. I mean,
just if things shake the wrong way, they could start
zero and three in the league. Illinois should be pretty good.
Everybody knows how tough it is to play at Cann't
and then good luck with Oregon.

Speaker 3 (23:28):
Yeah, yeah, that would be something for Kurt Signetty. I
don't think he would be telling people to google him.

Speaker 10 (23:35):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 3 (23:38):
Yeah, so the fallout Now we're a weekend from the
Committee on Infractions report. What do you think.

Speaker 10 (23:55):
I think that I mean, I mean I would have
thought that Michigan would not have appealed given that the
sentence was avoided. Everything like the two major things that
they wanted, keeping the national title, and then being fully
eligible for the college Football Playoff moving forward. But as

(24:15):
it turns out, as fans and alumni and supporters like
Dave Portnoy like to say that Michigan, I think he
was like smoking, like Michigan will smoke like a pack
of twenty million dollars or something. Evidently the administration feels
a little differently about protecting their twenty or thirty million
dollars because I mean, they are willing to go to

(24:37):
They're willing to appeal this and sort of run this
thing down down the line. And so I mean, I
get I don't even know what to think anymore, you know.
I mean I'd spoken to people who had said very
close to the situation, who had said, you know, we
just can't wait. So this whole thing, it's behind us.
We're trying to like we're pretty optimistic about the way

(24:59):
that this verdict is going to to go, and then
put it to the side. Then I thought they got
that optimistic verdict, and yet here they are sort of
still running it. I mean, I would think that's like
a Michigan legal council think the NCAA does not have
a good record in the last decade or so going
to court. Maybe they feel good about that, but that's

(25:20):
where it stands. Maybe they're trying to get your own
more his game back in twenty twenty six. I mean,
there's a number of reasons that they could want to
do something like this.

Speaker 3 (25:31):
Hey, Tony, thanks so much for your time. Really appreciate it.
We'll talk to you again in game week, of course.
Thanks can't wait. We'll be right back and we're gonna
talk with Stuart Mandel coming up about college football, about
how the season shapes up and comprehensive look that he

(25:54):
has done on it. We'll be right back on the
drive with Jack.

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I'm your host, Dave.

Speaker 13 (29:40):
Russell, Welcome back and just scime with Dad Potlight Radio Network.

Speaker 3 (30:02):
Rob. We did not talk about that rejoin, but that
is so perfect as a lead in because Pat Fitzgerald
settled his case against Northwestern University, and yes, and he
didn't have to work another day in his life. But
knowing Pat, he will and some program is going to

(30:26):
hire him. He's exonerated or as much as you can
be after the stigma of the hazing incident, which he
was unaware of by all reports, and which nonetheless led
to his dismissal, probably because he had a one and
eleventh season that last year after doing things at Northwestern

(30:46):
no one thought possible, including three ten win seasons, two
nine win seasons, winning as coach in school history, and
on and on and on, including four straight Bowl wins.

Speaker 10 (30:59):
It's a little bit.

Speaker 3 (30:59):
Like what Indiana did when they fired Bill Mallory. They
got delusions of grander. Not exactly sure what Northwestern thought
it was capable of doing in college football, but you
know now they're they're trying to make it work.

Speaker 8 (31:14):
You don't know, You really don't know what you got
till it's gone. The old saying, right, that's.

Speaker 3 (31:19):
Right, that's right, that's absolutely right. But Pat Fitzgerald is
fifty years old. Yeah, And unless you were really hung
up on this and you think you know something that
the investigators did not, then I think Pat Fitzgerald would
be a great hire for a lot of programs, and

(31:40):
I will be very surprised if he doesn't have head
coaching opportunities in the next cycle.

Speaker 8 (31:45):
Yeah, tremendous motivator. Right, You just listen to him talk
and you just I mean, those players want to run
through a wall for him, and you can understand why, yes.

Speaker 3 (31:55):
Yeah, yeah, So you can say, well, you know, if
he knew, then he's a lot and he should have
been fired. And if he wasn't in charge of his
program enough, then he should have been fired. But you know,
I think you can say that about a lot of coaches.
Sure can, Sure can. Yeah. We're going to be joined
by Stuart Mandel in just a couple of minutes. I

(32:19):
just got a message from him that he's on the
phone with a source, knowing how important that is for
the kinds of things he does. He's going to finish
this phone call and then I think he's going to
call us back. That is the plan. We're also going
to be talking with DeShawn Tate a little bit later,

(32:40):
and we're going to be talking with Jim Gumm from
the Blitz newsletter, and we're gonna be talking with Pat
Caputo about the Tigers, and we'll get his take on Michigan.
He's another guy who's I guess you say, he's come
down pretty hard on Michigan. He was always in Michigan state, alum,

(33:00):
no question about that. But he's been very pro Michigan,
I think, had a long relationship with both cham Beckler
and some other people there. So this is kind of
a departure for Pat to talk about the program and
people there as frauds. But I want to talk for
just a minute with you. By the way, thank you yesterday.

(33:22):
You did a great job of holding things together while
we're driving in and out at dead zones and trying
to get us back to Lansing after the baseball game.
We were doing the doing the show from the clown car,
and five of us were in there and talking baseball
and a little bit of football too.

Speaker 8 (33:43):
Yeah. I'm just glad the Tigers. I'm just glad the
Tigers finally pulled out a big win for you.

Speaker 3 (33:48):
Yeah. Yeah, that hen't call me the Jinks anymore.

Speaker 8 (33:51):
No, I can't do it. I loved doing it, but
I can't do it anymore.

Speaker 3 (33:55):
So they can't do it anymore. I am not winless anymore.
And you would have loved Jim Keaton junior there. I mean,
he's like the mayor anyway, right, so he knows everybody
and it's amazing how many people he runs into him.
I knew that guy. I knew that guy's brother. I
knew that guy's you know. So we have our seats,
and they were good seats, but they weren't where you
would not necessarily want to be. We're behind home plate,

(34:18):
but we were up. We were in second row, but high.
And next thing we know, Keaton has got these Gucci seats,
uh in the one North territory. I don't know what
he did to the usher. He knew the usher, he
made friends with the usher, bribe the I don't know
what he did.

Speaker 8 (34:36):
He's shaking hands, that's what he's doing. Oh yeah, that's
what he's doing.

Speaker 3 (34:42):
The usher is throwing people out. I mean he is.
He is evicting people. Every minute, he's throwing somebody trying
to sneak into one of these seats. And then Keaton
gets this beautiful seat, is plush seat in the prime area,
and he just says, he's with me, He's with me,
He's with me. I mean, the next thing, you know,

(35:03):
we got six guys down there, probably fifteen hundred dollars
worth of.

Speaker 8 (35:07):
Seats, I mean, with Jim Keaton Junior and Jake Green
with you all the time, Jack, you don't got to
worry about it. You don't got to worry about it.
They'll find a way for you.

Speaker 3 (35:16):
Yeah. Well, you know, Jay Green is still trying to
figure out what sport he was watching. He was This
is his second time at Comerica Park and the first
time he saw a blowout with a Twins win. Yesterday,
he saw the Tigers go up six nothing, and I said,
you know, it's really not like this all the time.

(35:37):
They do have games that are suspenseful.

Speaker 8 (35:41):
Yeah, it's like, Oh, but the atmosphere and I know
Jay talked about it last night. Make sure to check
it out on all your podcast platforms if you missed
the show yesterday. But just the atmosphere for j and
the food for Jay, and the food for everybody, I
should say, but the atmosphere for Jay coming back thereautiful day, right,

(36:01):
pretty decent day for baseball and seeing the Tigers win.
I'm sure a memory maker for Jay Green, and hopefully
he'll be able to get back there, you know, on
a more regular basis. Hopefully we've made him an official
Detroit Tigers fan.

Speaker 3 (36:17):
Oh yeah, he's definitely intrigued and he's asking good questions. Yeah,
he'd watch something and he was saying, now, you know,
what does that have to do with this? Things that
you know, other people less perceptive might not get. But
yesterday he didn't have those eyes wide open. Look the
first day we were there, sure, yeah, I mean he's

(36:40):
posing for a picture with a big tiger out there.
You know, here he is, and you know they got
all these eight year old kids lined up to take
this picture he is. He's six foot four, you know, in.

Speaker 8 (36:50):
The thing, right, he's like a kid in the store.

Speaker 3 (36:54):
Yeah, we go out in the outfield. You know, they
have all the statues of the great players out there.

Speaker 8 (37:00):
Yeah, and he's.

Speaker 3 (37:01):
Jumping up like el Kline, you know, with the glove
and the thing. And I'm like, you know, it's just good.
I'm glad I don't have video of this because I
could blackmail you with this stuff. But he was having
the time of his life.

Speaker 8 (37:14):
Well. The cool thing too, and you can talk about this,
The cool thing too, is that's the beauty of being
at a game live because he's watching things that he
might not have seen on television. And that's the beauty
of going to events. You see little things or things
that you know, again you don't see on television. That's
the beauty of going to sporting events or any event live.

(37:35):
You get to see things that maybe you wouldn't see originally.
So I'm glad he's he's always asking questions, right, and
I'm glad he's doing that, And I'm just glad you
guys had a great time. And like I said, glad
the Tigers pulled out a win for you.

Speaker 3 (37:49):
Yeah, and now they get the Kansas City Royals coming
in more games Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. And it is
the Royals, not the Guardians, who are in second play,
but a full ten games behind the Tigers. You remember
that Chase Michaelson had this deal going and I said
the Tigers would be up eight games by Labor Day,

(38:11):
And when the lead slipped down below six, of course
I heard from Chase immediately and I just reminded them
that it's in double digit lead again. So I am
resolute in my belief that the Tigers are going to
win this division and win it comfortably. I mean by
more than five games. There's going to be no drama

(38:35):
with this. The drama is, as you pointed out yesterday,
they have to avoid being the twenty twenty four, twenty
twenty five Detroit Lions who went fifteen to two, winning
a season in franchise history by far, and then there
were one and done in the playoffs. And if that
happens to this team, Let's say the Tigers do what

(38:58):
you would expect and they go twenty and thirteen in
the last thirty three games. That would make them ninety
six and sixty six, right, and a number one seed
in the playoffs. They now have a half game lead
on Toronto, but that doesn't mean anything. They could lose
an Alds series to any of these teams, including your

(39:20):
Boston Red Soize.

Speaker 8 (39:21):
Yeah, and that's the beauty, right They could they could
beat any of these teams in the American League, but
they also could lose it, right, And I'll ask you this,
So let's say this. Let's let's let's look at the
downside here for a second for the Tigers. Let's say
they make it in right, and they and they do
pull a Detroit Lions. I don't and it would be disappointing,

(39:43):
I understand, but I don't know if it would be
as disappointing if the Tigers lost in whatever round they
start with over the Detroit Lions. I think the Lions
lost last year would be more disappointing because the expectations
were so high for the Lions last year. I mean
it was pretty much Super Bowl or bust, especially after

(40:04):
that regular season. For the Tigers, like I said yesterday,
I mean, they are ahead of schedule in my view.
I don't know if anybody thought within, you know, Scott
Harris taking over that at this moment of him taking
the positions the Tigers, you could seriously consider them a
World Series contender, And I think you can consider them

(40:24):
a World Series contender, right, So I don't know. Yeah,
I don't know if the expectations were as high for
the Tigers even coming into this year as the Lions
were last year, So it would be disappointing. But I
think if you rank the two, I think and football
is king obviously around these parts. So I figured the

(40:44):
Lions loss would still sting a little bit more of
what happened last year than if the Tigers would lose
in whatever round they started with this year.

Speaker 3 (40:55):
Yeah, I would agree with that. You know, can the
Tigers beat the Blue Jays? Can they beat Houston? Well,
they just swept them. Can they beat the Yankees, sure,
and they beat the Red Sox, and they beat the
Mariners absolutely sure. They can also lose to any of
those teams. The Yankees just hit fourteen home runs in

(41:16):
two games.

Speaker 8 (41:18):
Yeah, not that we know what, And not that long
ago we were wondering if the Yankees and the Mets
were even making the you know, playoffs, would they even
make the playoffs? And the Yankees have since turned around
the ship a little bit, and the Mets are still
struggling a little bit. But it's amazing what a two
week window does, right, And that's why they play one

(41:39):
hundred and sixty two games. And I'm sure pak Kaputo
will mention that when we have him, when you talk
baseball with him, just how unpredictable baseball is throughout the season.

Speaker 3 (41:50):
Yeah, and are you confident that the Red Sox will
one make the playoffs and two finish ahead of the Yankees.

Speaker 8 (41:59):
No, No, they're on no, no for both. They're on
a They got a three game losing streak right now.
The Yankees have one to five in a row as
I look at it, and their last ten they're three
and seven. Uh So, I mean they're in They're they're
in the wild card obviously right now, but they're second

(42:21):
behind the Yankees. But Kansas City, Cleveland, Texas are all
right there. Seattle's got the last play uh wild card,
but still got a lot of baseball to go uh
and every game is gonna mean something. And I know
people are saying, you know, well, if they're gonna go
on a losing streak, now's the time to do it.
You want to get it out of the way for
the playoffs, well for the wildcard teams, right.

Speaker 3 (42:45):
Uh.

Speaker 8 (42:45):
This is kind of like the playoff push when you're
trying to get in when every game matters. So I
wish I was more confident than what I want than
what I am. But no, when you look at the
schedule they still have they're playing some pretty good teams.
So no, I am not comfortable with the Red Sox
right now.

Speaker 3 (43:05):
The Red Sox and Yankees have a series coming up
this weekend.

Speaker 8 (43:08):
Right, Yeah, that's correct, yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:12):
Ye, And the Yankees haven't beaten the Red Sox yet
this season.

Speaker 8 (43:15):
Correct, that is correct. That is correct. Let's hope that continues.
For Red Sox fans out.

Speaker 3 (43:21):
There, it's amazing rop how fast this narrative changes we
think about this in terms of pro football, where only
so many games, or college football you can go from
the penthouse to the outhouse and vice versa in a hurry.
But even in baseball here now everyone is saying, oh,
the Yankees have figured it out, They've got all their

(43:43):
guys back watch this, and the Red Sox are coming
back to earth. If Boston wins three games this weekend,
then that whole narrative will flip. It's the Yankees can't
beat the Red Sox. Boston has had their little dip
like every team. Tiger's lost twelve out of thirteen, and

(44:03):
we'll be talking about something completely different.

Speaker 8 (44:06):
It's the beauty of it. That's the beauty. I'll tell
you what, what do you think about talking some basketball
with DeShawn Tate where it's about that time we get him.
I'm going to get him on the line for you
here in just a minute.

Speaker 3 (44:16):
I think that's a great idea. Let's do that, and
we're actually we were going to talk with Jim Gumm,
but we're going to keep Jim on the bench today
and at about five twenty we are going to be
talking with Stuart Mandel. I just got a message from
him and he'll ready for us. So give you a

(44:38):
minute to get the Shawan on and I'll fill a
buster until you do that. I want to mention that
at Spartan Stadium right now until eight o'clock is Meet
the Spartans, and this was a ritual. This was an
annual deal for fans to come over and get autographs

(45:01):
or see players, sometimes get a picture, but really get
a feel the way they normally would not. It's not
quite the intimacy of moneyball, but nonetheless it's a great
opportunity and it's not a hot day, so I'm expecting
they'll have a ton of people over there. Players and

(45:22):
coaches will have lines for autographs. You can get in
those lines. You'll be able to walk around. I think
you'll probably be able to see some things. We know
that the new concessions operations there and very very much anticipated,
may have some of those available today. I'm not sure

(45:43):
which ones, but I'm told that they will, and you'll
get a look at some other things. That it's six
days now until Paint the Field night, when they bring
in some high profile donors and they let them actually
we paint the logo at the center of the field
so if you see something crooked, you can blame the

(46:06):
fabulous flying nesses from Boise or coming in to do that.
But I think for a lot of fans on their
way home from work or school, or maybe they're already there,
they're going to want to stop for the next three
plus hours and you'll be able to see Michigan State
football in a different way, and you can see how

(46:28):
big Aiden Chiles is. You can see how much he
has grown, and I think for a lot of people
that will come as a little bit of a surprise.
So you remember him last year and he wasn't short
by any stress of the imagination, but he wasn't the
physical presence he is now. And I think that's also

(46:51):
true in terms of his confidence, his maturity. I'd be
very surprised if Aiden Childs did not have a good
to very good year, and a year ago, I wouldn't
have said that because it was so new to him
and he didn't have much help.

Speaker 8 (47:09):
How about it, talk about physical presence, What do you
think of our next guest having one of those?

Speaker 3 (47:14):
Oh? Absolutely, I mean, you know, I'm just I'm just
glad when I see him. You know, he doesn't dunk
on my head. We're talking about Deshaun. Take is our
Atlantic bread Atlanta based basketball sabot. It's Takes take hoops
where basketball lives. To Sean, how you doing.

Speaker 4 (47:34):
Dunk a chicken nugget into some dipping sauce is probably
about the only thing I'll be dunking.

Speaker 7 (47:39):
Jack.

Speaker 4 (47:39):
Appreciate you for having me as usual around this time
every every Thursday. I'm grateful to be on with you.
And I know you were talking a little bit about
aid In Childs into last I'll say this real quick.
I'm no super big football fisionado or anything, go to person,
what have you, But I think that this year will
find himself with a little bit more balance. We'll see

(48:01):
some of that. You know, there were some instances where
there were just it just kind of felt like there
were a lot of home run plays that we saw
that he tried to make, and maybe not so much
of the simpler ones. Maybe ones that you know, wouldn't
get the oohs and odhs, and we'll go for some
of the big players. But I think we'll see a
little bit more of a balanced guy and a lot more.

Speaker 14 (48:21):
Of the potential that everybody had been talking about when
there were conversations first starting about his transfer from Oregon
State to Michigan.

Speaker 4 (48:31):
State, about how high of a potential NFL draft, all
this other stuff that they fall in love with, those
agents or front officemen and so forth. I think we'll
see a little bit more flashes of that from him
this season.

Speaker 3 (48:44):
I can't wait.

Speaker 4 (48:44):
And and by the way, Jay, a rematch some payback
against Boston College because I'm looking forward to.

Speaker 3 (48:51):
Yes, Yes, that was one that got away. There were
two games last year, one in Chestnut Hill, Massachusetts, and
one in an arbor that Michigan State controlled, if not
completely dominated, but certainly had the better of it and
didn't get the victory. When you think about a guy

(49:12):
like that who can make all the big plays, and
there were highlight plays last year to Shawn against Maryland
on the road in the upset of Iowa where you said, Wow,
this guy's really got the potential, and then he would
make the big mistake. I'm thinking about the parallel to basketball,
and you have a guy who's just oozing inability, he's

(49:35):
not quite ready for prime time. Do you think the
coaches would rather have a guy like that knowing what
the upside is, or rather have someone that they're more confident,
maybe more consistent, more stability.

Speaker 4 (49:51):
Off the top of my head, I'm not sure if
I know a player, but I will keep it right
here at my home run I'm based out of sometimes
and again the correl might not be the same as
far as superstardom, but just from those individual, you know, questions,
sometimes it reminded me of of of Trey Young sometimes

(50:11):
when he came into the NBA level, where everybody raised
so much about his shooting ability and being able to
launch the deep, you know, launch from deep and and
and be able to hit the three. And there's also
a little bit more balance of being able to be
one of the best assist men in in in the NBA,

(50:32):
as we've seen over the last few years, but just
learning how to win. Sometimes it's not even just about
being able to make or not make big, big, big plays,
but just to know of how to play the game.
Some guys are great at playing the game. Some guys
are playing you know, know how to play basketball, but
do you know how to play I think sometimes makes
them a little bit different, and that's something that he

(50:52):
kind of I'm about struggled with. But just things from
what I was able to notice your second question and
and forgive me because I think I missed that second part.

Speaker 3 (51:04):
Okay, yeah, I was talking about, Uh, do you think
most coaches would rather have ability or stability? Uh?

Speaker 4 (51:16):
I like to say stability. If we're talking about coach
Calipari or somebody, it.

Speaker 3 (51:20):
Might be ability.

Speaker 4 (51:22):
Uh, but I think I think stability to be honest
with you. But and some of the best coaches, and
it doesn't make you know guys coaches who tend to
just be lean one way more than the other, less
of a coach, But some of the best coaches know
how to be able to get the balance of of
of running a program and having a system where you

(51:43):
can get both. In today's world and recruiting and everything else.
Obviously it is probably a little bit different just because
you need the players. But now we're starting to trend
towards in a place where it's not about the five
star freshmen coming in anymore. That's gonna give you a
semester and then after that they're going to the league.
It's about the guys who have established themselves in in

(52:06):
in in in smaller high high major, mid major, some
even low major programs and be able to show themselves
on a higher level on the collegiate level based off
the fact that they have the experience, and that's what
comes with a lot of the stability.

Speaker 3 (52:24):
So I think that.

Speaker 4 (52:26):
It's a good combination of both, but I still think stability.

Speaker 3 (52:30):
Think about it.

Speaker 4 (52:30):
Who's winning the national championships right now when I'm on
the collegiate level, Jack, it's the it's the teams with
the stability, the teams that knows all their teams that
they've been here, players that have been here before. Correct.

Speaker 3 (52:42):
Yeah, yeah, And I'm thinking that before you can win
a championship, sometimes before you can win a big game,
you have to learn how not to lose that game,
because you can lose it a long time before you
actually win it. And I'm thinking that for a lot
of coaches, as you say that, they would want both,

(53:04):
they'd want the combination, but maybe it's easier if you
have a stability, someone who's not gonna get you beat
to then improve the skill set. Then have someone who
might win you a game but lose your something more.

Speaker 4 (53:20):
No, I agree with that. I think that there's just
a lot of examples of you know, games that we've
seen in the past of teams that have you.

Speaker 3 (53:29):
Know, we're able to get up big.

Speaker 4 (53:31):
Let's just take for an example, last year's Alabama and
Georgia on the football side, where one of the biggest
games and just game watches of the season last year
where Alabama jumped out big, humongous on Georgia and they
you know, Georgia comes all the way back and then
it gets into a tight game and whatever else what
have you. I think that's sometimes the knowing how not
to sometimes, like you said, plan to win versus playing

(53:53):
that to lose, plays a big part in that. I
think that there's also a difference in just some balance
within having certain players on your roster that will only
help you win games and will never help you lose games.
And I think that's when you know that you've really
got something. A lot of that goes into the coaching
staff and recruiting and everything else, film sessions, some of

(54:15):
your you know, recruitment staff, coaches, things of that nature, development,
even coaches, But that plays a big part because you
have players literally that will help you win games and
everybody wants that right, but will also help you lose games.
And that's something that you kind of have to be
cognizant of within players some of the best ones that
are very rare. And I know I'm jumping around a

(54:37):
little bit, but this is just a very fine example
where we're talking about Jason Richardson some weeks and months ago,
is that he has shown himself to own not gonna
make a lot of mistakes DNA. We get it runs
in his bloodline, basketball and so forth, but being able
to be coachable, being able to have a listening ear,
doesn't think that he knows it all, and like I said,

(54:58):
doesn't make a lot of mistakes can only help you win.
Not going to make a lot of mistakes, it's going
to help you lose a basketball game. Sometimes it's not
even just about on the floor, that goes for off
the floor in decision making as well. Really shows the
maturity within that player.

Speaker 3 (55:13):
And James had a very mature game. You talk about
not making the big mistake, he was surprisingly big game
ready and wound up was one of the best freshman
years in Michigan State history. But I think if you
look at the body of work Shawn, whether it's football.
With Mark D'Antonio, I was talking to Courtney Hawkins, who

(55:39):
became a ten year wide out in the NFL, and
his first year at Michigan State he didn't catch a pass.
Second year, he caught sixty. I think about all the
guys that Tom Izzo had, he had, Raymond Green, and
you know, you're talking about Denzel Valentine. You're talk about
national players the year, guys who averaged three points again

(56:00):
or five points a game their first year. So sometimes
it is a process, and maybe that's even true in
the NBA. Now, DeShawn, I'm looking at the best players
in the league right now. Go back and look at
the rookie years for Niko Jokic, for Shay Gilders, Alexander

(56:24):
you know, Tyres Halliburton was certainly a sensation in the playoffs.
These are guys who didn't come out and take the
league by storm. But look at him now, and you
sure love to have him on your roster.

Speaker 4 (56:37):
And even if it's some older guys jack like number thirty,
Steph Curry himself, who dealt with some injuries, some ankle
injuries and just really didn't catch fire the way that
we know him to be right now, had some of
his own struggles at first coming into the league, and
that just goes to show, you know, some of the development.
But something that you mentioned about all of those guys

(56:57):
that you named, they came from really good back grounds,
really really good coaching staff to help, you know, essentially
mold them, assist in molding them into the player that
they are today. And I think that you have a
good amount You have to have a good amount of that.
And I'm glad that you mentioned something at the beginning
of this about Michigan State because there's a lot of

(57:20):
it is what you predicate yourself on Michigan State being
a program and I'm not saying Michigan State is the
only one, but just use them for an example. Predicate
themselves are not just about going to get the top guy, right,
going going out to get the guy that fits what
you want, what you need and how you want to build.
You know, got high character level guys, and I think

(57:43):
a lot of that certainly plays a big part into
it as well, because you are not only as you
know this time, as I've said multiple times that sure,
we're trying to develop and establish a player into being
the kind of player that you know we want and
that they're going to be on the next level forming
their game into that, but also being really good young men.

(58:04):
And something that you named about all of those guys
that are in the NBA on that level is high
character guys. And I think that you have to have
some of that. Sure raw talent and all that stuff
just is a part of the potential and all that,
absolutely no question, but you also have to have that
high character to go along with it as well as well,
because you're faced with a lot of different types of

(58:26):
pressures and a lot of just different things, and so
I think that it definitely takes a good bit of
that and so much more than just saying, oh, this
guy is a five star player, go get him, or
he was a McDonald's All American, or he was the
first team All American in college basketball, he was the
first team All conference guy. Sometimes things playing into it

(58:48):
a little bit differently when you're on that scouting report
and you're trying to and you're a scout and you're
for a team, and you need a piece to fit
you and may not always be the most allento guy,
but a guy instead that is going to, you know,
assist the top guys in keeping their cool and just

(59:08):
being the ideal piece to help that team get to
a higher level. Unfortunately, you don't hear nearly as many
stories about that guy, and that's why those stories are
so cool to me.

Speaker 3 (59:19):
Absolutely, that's a great point. I'm looking at the starts
for some guys who would be considered at the top
of their profession. Do you remember Patrick Mahomes' rookie year
in the NFL? I can't say verbatim than I do, no,
No one does you know why? Because he didn't play.

(59:42):
He sat and watched Alex Smith with Kansas City and
then they said, okay, now he's ready, and they moved
Alex Smith and they put him in and no one
knew what he was capable of doing. But he didn't
do it the first year anymore than Valentine or Day
they did. And the same thing is true in baseball.

(01:00:03):
I'm just looking at a couple of these. Aaron Judge, right,
I mean, you couldn't have a more dynamic career the
last couple of years than Aaron Judges had. You know
what he batted his rookie year? What is that?

Speaker 7 (01:00:19):
One?

Speaker 3 (01:00:19):
Seventy nine?

Speaker 4 (01:00:21):
Wow?

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
How about Cal Roley, big dumper his forty seven home runs?
He needs one to tie the all time record. For
the best power season by a catcher, and he's going
to go blowing by that. He's going to go past fifty.
He might get to sixty. But you know how many
home runs he had his first year and what he batted?

(01:00:43):
How many he had two home runs and he batted
one eighty incredible, incredible, incredible. I'm wondering, Gun, and you
would know this better than I would. Who have you
seen come into the NBA? Maybe bron Maybe there were
a couple others who came in and took the league

(01:01:04):
by star, maybe Alan Iverson or certainly Urban, but not
many guys came in with no David Robinson. Okay, would
if that one who came in and you knew immediately
that didn't matter was going to be a force set? Yeah, yes, absolutely,

(01:01:25):
But a lot of guys it doesn't happen overnight.

Speaker 4 (01:01:31):
And even those guys go through their own challenges as well.
You know, when you start factoring it. I mean, some
of the best ones is when it comes to at
least what I pay attention to the most. Sometimes it's
not always about winning and losing. Sometimes it's about the
mental you know, sacrifice or just how stenuous it is.

(01:01:53):
It can be on the mind that overcoming injuries, you know,
that plays such a big part. I mean, we talked
so much, and of course I'm this part always kind
of you know, intrigues me a little bit because of
some personal things that I've dealt with within my family.
But we start talking about the mental health side of things,
and I'm sure that our buddy Lindsey Huddleston can even

(01:02:17):
attest to some of these things. Is when they start
talking about the mental health part of things, that's not
the easiest thing to be this guy who is the
you know, on this level, everybody was the best on
their team or what have you to be known as
that guy pretty much your whole life or whatever the
case may be. Then you get to this stage and
then you're just a role player, respectfully, or you're the

(01:02:37):
you know, fourth or fifth scoring option, or you're a
guy coming off the bench, sixth man, whatever the case
may be. Some you're not used to that within itself
plays a part to overcome some of the small what
appears to be some of the smallest things, even the traveling.

Speaker 3 (01:02:50):
I mean, what is baseball.

Speaker 4 (01:02:51):
We were just talking about baseball over that one hundred
and sixty two hundred and sixty eight games for crying
out all. I mean basketball, you're in a different time
zone every other night. It feels like all of these
different things play a part, and all that goes into
what type of player that you're moded and shaped into
being because you have to know how to balance and
deer with so many of these different things. So I

(01:03:12):
think that's're spot on.

Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
Let me give you one other guy that you have
watched a ton, Okay, and in terms of consistency, now,
it's hard to be better than Giannis on Dakupo. You know,
you're talking about eight straight years where he's been pretty
consistently great. You know what he did his first year

(01:03:35):
in the NBA. What's that you have? It's eleven point
five points a game, Jeannest, We're talking about yeah, wow.
You know, even the best of the best, with very
few exceptions, have that. So to say that Aiden Giles
last year, or or Bryce Underwood this year, who's just

(01:03:59):
the same timetable he just turned eighteen to think that,
you know, and actually Aiden was younger because he was
there when he was seventeen playing in games out at
Oregon State. But for a guy that age they're eighteen
for a reason. It's not like you can expect them

(01:04:22):
to come out and handle everything. You know, these are
the best in the world at what they do, so
to expect someone to come in. That's why this whole
thing Dejon about prospects, right, Fred Human always says, Ohsode
can't play. Well, you get some guy and maybe he's
a minor league enow, but other than in baseball, Rob,

(01:04:45):
you can help me with this show. Hey, right away,
rookie year was MVP ye and each year row rookie
year was MVP. That's about it. For a guy who
came in and right out of the shoot, what's the
best in the business.

Speaker 4 (01:05:06):
Well, I was gonna say, Jack, you take that from
especially from a guy for example, you're talking about Giannis,
a guy who's not from this country. You're there's already
a language barrier there. I'm sure the wiry body that
he came in with. Now you are what multiple time MVPs,
a world champion on top of that, best defensive player

(01:05:28):
in the league, if not in the conversation for quite
a few years, and able to do it on both
sides of the ball. Some guys are just predicated based
on one or the other. You get somebody with that balance.
We always talk about three and D or not three
and D, but a two way players and all this
and that that is the finest definition of one and
and the coachable guy you're talking about, the character, the

(01:05:50):
high character guy that he is, the selfless guy that
he is, the commitment that all of those different things.
I'm not sure that we're I mean, people got a
appreciate what we're able to see. I'm gonna just throw
to sutch you real quick because I know we're up
against it. I was having some conversations with some friends
of mine and asking them if you could take one

(01:06:10):
player in NBA history, and I'm not saying nobody's gonna
be fantastic at this, but who would be the guy
that you would feel the most confident end, that would
be able to guard all five positions and maybe anybody
of any era in the NBA. And I'm sure name
Dennis Rodman came up is when I came with. But
you gotta mention Gianniskunpo, who could play and just about

(01:06:35):
as good as all the fire positions that there is
and can stop. Maybe the best player in the world
or at least contain to whatever to the best degree
that anybody could. He's in that conversation. I don't think
he gets nearly enough credit or talked about as you
should sometimes.

Speaker 3 (01:06:50):
No, those are two of the top of the top
they talk about Dennis Rodman and Giannis. I would put
Scottie Pippen up there too. Certainly, Mike, you think of
him as a great defender, but Scott a little bit bigger.
I think Mike would have trouble for sure stopping a
lot of post players, and Pippen would be better at that.
But your point is very well taken. Hey, I have

(01:07:13):
to ask you, oh before I do that, did you
hear the news about the SEC and football that just broke?
I don't. I wouldn't be very surprised if I didn't.

Speaker 4 (01:07:22):
Somehow I did.

Speaker 9 (01:07:23):
It, though.

Speaker 3 (01:07:25):
The SEC is finally it looks like relenting and going
to a nine game conference season. This was the big
hole loll about the revised playoff format. The Big Ten
insisted that the SEC do this, and now it looks
like Greg Sankei has said, Okay, well, beginning with the

(01:07:45):
twenty twenty sixth season, we're going to go to a
nine game conference season. That means you won't have any
of these November blowouts.

Speaker 13 (01:07:56):
With me.

Speaker 3 (01:07:57):
You know, no one could ever find so pretty interesting
that the SEC would relent that show us how much
they want this new playoff format. But that what we
want to know is are you coming in to mid
Michigan this week or next week?

Speaker 4 (01:08:16):
First of all, finding that you just hit me with
the SEC stuff, because I'm just now getting the breaking
news alert, So good job on that, Jack. But flight
leaves tonight at nine forty p. Keep us in your prayers,
especially because I'm traveling with the two year old that's
for sure, who I'm sure going to be wired up
on sugar and everything else. Leaving at nine forty p tonight,
getting in sometime late tonight around eleven thirty. By the

(01:08:38):
time you close your eyes, which we know Jack probably
won't detail about five or six am when the sun's
coming up. By the time you open your eyes back up,
I'll be in the city. I'm really excited about it.
Definitely want to extend an invitation to you as well
about some stuff that we got going on this weekend,
specifically on tomorrow at Hawk Island Park, and I'm really
excited to be able to spend some some very quality

(01:09:02):
and certainly needed time with some with some family after
the year that we've just had. But I can't wait
to be there. And you know, what I'm looking for
is probably more than anything, not just sirt pizza, not
just hungry howies all about that olive?

Speaker 8 (01:09:18):
Don't say it?

Speaker 4 (01:09:19):
Oh yeah, I know you're salivating at the mouth. I
know you are.

Speaker 3 (01:09:26):
Rob is uh. He thinks about Ali burgers the same
way that Steven Brooks thinks about baseball than that, believe
it or not. Oh my god, how many olive burgers
have you had? Have you ever had a good one?

Speaker 8 (01:09:40):
I had one. Well, I just don't like olives in general.
If it's just a regular I'm a Hamburger type of guy,
I'm all about it. But the olives is what kills
it right there. And it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter
what type of all of it is. It's just I'm
an equal opportunity olive hater.

Speaker 3 (01:09:58):
All right, Well, we will see you. I don't think
we'll be able to get there tomorrow afternoon for the
excitement at Auck Island, but we've got the show and
some other things going. But you'll be here Saturday, right.

Speaker 4 (01:10:13):
I'll be there Saturday. Grandma's turning ninety, so I think
closer to the evening time, I won't be available, but
we can hook up a little bit before that, or
maybe even after. I'd love to.

Speaker 3 (01:10:24):
I tell you I was gonna say I will not
be there Saturday because and I'm not going to the
Lions preseason game. Saturday is my fiftieth wedding anniversary, Robin
and I have. If I make it two more days
and she doesn't throw me out, that's fifty years.

Speaker 8 (01:10:42):
Congratulations.

Speaker 3 (01:10:43):
So I'm thinking maybe tomorrow night when you're all done
with this store. You know, okay, as long as you
beat sunrise, you're good with me. So we'll just figure
out a way to get together. Maybe tomorrow when the
family festivities are done.

Speaker 4 (01:11:01):
I can't wait, Jack, and bring Boston Rob with you.
I know he can put down some some some good,
some adult beverages. So bring him on with you.

Speaker 3 (01:11:09):
As we'll get him the Boston Burger whatever that is.

Speaker 4 (01:11:11):
I don't know, Boston.

Speaker 3 (01:11:15):
Probably yeah, probably have beans all over it. Thanks so much, John,
I look forward to seeing you this weekend. Thanks for
having me, John Tate. We'll be right back and the plan. Okay,
we're gonna try this again with Stuart Mantel of the Athletic.

Speaker 8 (01:11:34):
And for just a few minutes. Check. I'll get him
right now. We can do that.

Speaker 3 (01:11:39):
You want to do it right now?

Speaker 9 (01:11:40):
Yeah?

Speaker 8 (01:11:40):
Yeah, just stick around here for a minute.

Speaker 3 (01:11:42):
We'll stick around.

Speaker 8 (01:11:42):
We got one more break, but we'll stick around. I'll
get him here in just a second.

Speaker 3 (01:11:46):
Okay, sounds good. That's that's very good. Uh. I just
I'll just keep talking. We have Tigers in action tomorrow.
They've got day of Actually, they get a pretty good
break from Wednesday afternoon until Friday night, and we are

(01:12:07):
eight days away of Michigan State. And at Michigan State
isn't the first Big Ten team to play, you think, well,
they moved the game up. But Minnesota is going to
be playing a week from tonight, so that will be
interesting as well. A lot of people will want to

(01:12:27):
see that. It's an incredible weekend for week one. Now
there's a week zero right and you get a couple
of games. You've got this Pharmageddon game with Kansas State
and Iowa State in Europe. So that's one that a
lot of people will be watching as a possible indicator

(01:12:49):
of Big twelve supremacy. But for the Big Ten, I
think a lot of people are going to be paying
very close attention to what happens in Week one with
Ohio State going up against Texas. And this is unusual
because it's the first time in fact, that a preseason
number one team, the Texas Long Horns, is going to

(01:13:10):
be an underdog in the first game. So how can
that be their preseason number one? How can they be
the underdog? Let's get that.

Speaker 8 (01:13:18):
Let's get that. Let's get that answer from our next guest,
who's aline all right?

Speaker 3 (01:13:23):
Stuart Mandell from The Athletic and the Audible podcast joins us. Stuart,
this is the first we believe that a preseason number
one team will be an underdog in the opener. How
do you see the long Horns in the Buckeyes?

Speaker 6 (01:13:40):
Yeah, well, it's hard to really forecast because especially in
this day and age college football, right when there's so
much turnover. Yeah, you know with Texas and let's start
with the Ohio State. I mean we all were all used
to them reloading year after year after year. I don't
worry too much in Ohio State is going to suddenly
face plant, But yeah, I mean of that national title

(01:14:00):
team last year were guys that could have gone to
the NFL a year earlier, came back for one more run,
and now they are gone. So they've got a lot
to replace.

Speaker 3 (01:14:09):
They've got a.

Speaker 6 (01:14:09):
First time starting quarterback Arch Manning is I guess technically
a first year starting quarterback that we've certainly seen him
a little bit. So I think Texas is key. I
mean Texas is loaded. I don't think that's any secret.
Their one big question mark is their offensive line. They
lost four starters from a really good offensive line, and
if they come out and struggle, I mean, Ohio State's

(01:14:30):
going to take advantage of that. So to me, it's
a toss up game. I kind of side with Texas
because we do have seen more of their quarterback who
is a very good quarterback, and we have Ohio State. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:14:46):
I'm looking at some of the games this weekend and
I don't remember better threesome of games involving six top
ten teams with Notre Dame going to Miami, renewing Catholics
and Convicts, and then you've got the Battle of the
Tigers and Death Valleys and Tiger Rag White songs with

(01:15:10):
LSU and Clemson. Do you remember three better games for
a week once too?

Speaker 6 (01:15:17):
No, I mean there's been I think I wrote about
a few weeks ago. One of my editors kind of
crunched the numbers. I don't think there's ever been three
top ten games the first Saturday of the season. We
you know, oftentimes in those early especially with the neutral
site games, you may see a lot of glamorous matchups
right between intersectional opponents, but necessarily the these kind of stakes.

Speaker 3 (01:15:40):
Ohio State Texas was.

Speaker 6 (01:15:41):
Almost a one versus two games in the first game
of the season. That would have been not the Notre Dame.
I should have I misspoke when I said on the
Saturday No Dame miamis on Sunday. You know that game
has kind of been Yeah, that has probably been overshadowed
by the other two. That's a big game too. That's
your first chance to see Carson Beck, the former Georgia

(01:16:04):
quarterback play for Miami. That is Notre Dame coming up
an appearance in the national title game. They've got a
first time starting quarterback and CJ.

Speaker 3 (01:16:11):
Carr.

Speaker 6 (01:16:12):
So yeah, really looking forward to all three of those.
And by the way, we have a top twenty five
game in Iron this weekend. That's pretty unusual for weeks.

Speaker 3 (01:16:19):
Yeah, as sure is. What will we learn about the
Big Twelve as a result of that game.

Speaker 6 (01:16:30):
It's gonna I don't know, we're gonna I mean, what
we're going to learn is that one of the two teams,
one of the teams that is expected to contend for
the Big Twelve title, is going to start out zero
and one, and that's quite a hole to dig out of.
But I think it's hard to know until we see
some of the other teams. I mean, the Big Twelve,
this new Big Twelve is a league where frankly, there's

(01:16:54):
not much separating the team. Even Oklahoma State was terrible
last year, they finished sixteenth. They I don't know that.
Their talent level, though, is night and day worse than
Arizona States, who won the conference. So there's not much
separating these teams. There's not much separating Case State and
Iowa State. Whoever wins obviously gets off to a nice start.

(01:17:14):
But I don't think we'll know until we see Asu,
we see Colorado, some of these other Utah, some of
these other teams to know where they truly stand.

Speaker 3 (01:17:27):
What do you make of the news this afternoon. Maybe
it was before the first I thought about the SEC
willing to go to the nine game conference schedule. Seemed
like this was a roadblock as far as a restructured
playoff and an impasse with the Big Ten and the SEC.
Does this mean we won't get these ridiculous matchups in

(01:17:49):
mid November and the SEC.

Speaker 6 (01:17:52):
You know, first of all, that announcement came out like
ten minutes ago. The most interesting part about it, I mean,
they've been to be eight versus nine for I think
a decade. But what's interesting to me is that that
press really says they're also required to play a Power
four non conference game. So, I mean, the SEC conference
schedules are already the hardest in the country.

Speaker 4 (01:18:13):
Even the eight games.

Speaker 6 (01:18:13):
Now you're going to go to nine and they're all
going to play a tenth Power four game. Those are
going to be some tough schedules, and frankly, some Big
Ten teams are going to have to adjust. I think
Penn State has gone into this mode where they play
no Power four teams. When Michigan won they Michigan got
Oklahoma this year. When they won the national title. A
couple of years ago, they played no Power So if

(01:18:35):
we keep the model we have with the selection committee,
and I know Tony Petiti is trying to end it,
but and you're you're fighting for a twelve team playoff
berth with a team from the SEC, you better beef
up that schedule because the SEC teams will probably get
the benefit of doubt.

Speaker 3 (01:18:53):
Do you think we'll ever see something that we do
and say of acc Big Ten Basketball Challenge where they
could pick a week of the season, week two, week three,
whatever you want, and match them up with the sixteen
of the eighteen Big Ten schools and all the SEC
schools and let them go at it.

Speaker 7 (01:19:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:19:14):
I mean they've talked about it the two conferences. You know,
it's been an interesting year. In February, the SEC and
Big Ten got together in New Orleans. This hadn't really
happened before two conferences, you know, needing to strategize together,
and a big part of that was there the future
of the playoffs, and we've seen them split apart on
that over the rest of the year. So I think
that kind of round other stuff to a halt. With

(01:19:37):
this announcement today that the SEC is going to nine,
that's something the Big Ten really wanted to see and
I think maybe that becomes a good chance, not a
good chance there, the chance that becomes that that extra
Paraford game for the SEC teams.

Speaker 3 (01:19:55):
You just went through exhaustive exercise of trying to pick
the order of Finnish by conference, right.

Speaker 6 (01:20:05):
Yeah, I don't. I don't claim it to be all
that scientific.

Speaker 4 (01:20:08):
But sure.

Speaker 3 (01:20:11):
What was the hardest conference to pick?

Speaker 6 (01:20:16):
Hardest conference to tick? Probably the Big Twelve for the
reasons we just talked about a lot of parody in
that conference. I ended up picking Arizona State to repeat,
but I didn't necessarily go into it considering that. In
terms of the Big Ten, it's not so much the
top I think Penn State and Ohio State or the
class of that conference. It's kind of that next rundown.

(01:20:38):
There's a lot of teams that could go either.

Speaker 3 (01:20:42):
Way, right Iowa.

Speaker 6 (01:20:43):
You think of Iowa, Nebraska, USC, Michigan, Minnesota, right on
down the line. The teams that I could have picked
to go nine to three, I could have picked to
go seven and five. I don't really see much difference. Yeah,
you know, probably a lot will depend on how their
schedules shakeout, but also injuries, injury, luck and a big

(01:21:04):
ten openers.

Speaker 3 (01:21:04):
Stewart is Illinois at Indiana. Illinois thinks it's going to
have its best team in forever and Indiana right and
high now thinking that, hey, this is easy after what
happened last year. So that game is going to tell
us an awful lot. Yeah that is.

Speaker 6 (01:21:25):
You know, Illinois is the classic case of what we
called the bull bump. I don't know that they would
have been ranked this high until they beat South Carolina
in the ball game and got the ten wins and
suddenly they are the hot kind of bandwagon team going
into this season. Whereas I feel like because Indiana ended
the season on a down note, some people assume that

(01:21:47):
was a great story last year, they're going to go
back to being in Indiana. I don't think that's the case.
Kursignetti is a great coach, They got a really good
quarterback from Colln Fernando Mendoza. I'm looking forward to that one.
I think our swing game for both those teams.

Speaker 3 (01:22:03):
Yeah, when you think of Illinois, you know they did
win ten and they have Luke Altmeyer back at quarterback,
and I think they have the most production returning, and
we know that they have a boatload of veterans back
to returning starters. But I want to ask you about
where Penn State is and you mentioned players coming back.

(01:22:24):
It happened at Michigan. They win the national title. All
the Ohio State players decided they were going to come back,
and it looked like they'd be jumping off a bridge,
but they win the national title. And now Penn State
seems to have a senior laden team. What would it
say if the nitty Lyons won it all and you

(01:22:44):
had three straight Big Ten champions or championship teams. Widle
State actually was fourth in the league last year, but
you had three straight national champions from the Big Ten
and three straight years without an SEC team in the
championship game.

Speaker 6 (01:23:03):
Well, first of all, it shows the importance of retention,
you know, I think because the transfer portal get so
much attention, and because some teams dramatically flip their roster
from one year the next, like in terms of how
schools spend their ni O money, we tend to focus
on that, but I think it's arguably more important if

(01:23:24):
you have a really good team to retain it, to
bring back those guys and to convince you know, those
two running backs at Penn State or Drew Aller not
to turn grow. You know, they're getting a pretty significant paycheck.
Right If the Big Ten last year won back to
back national titles for the first time since World War Two,
so that was significant to do it three times, that

(01:23:44):
a row would really be something. I think Paul Feinbaum
would jump off a bridge if that happens, right, it's
you know, the SEC is sick of hearing about how
the Big can has caught up with them.

Speaker 3 (01:23:55):
If Paul Finebomb does jump off the bridge, can we
get video. I think of a lot of people who
would certainly be tuning in for that. Yeah. I mean
he I don't want to ask you about pie.

Speaker 6 (01:24:09):
On him too much, but he's obviously become the when
people think of the like SEC h cockiness, Right, he's
the He's the face of it.

Speaker 3 (01:24:19):
Yeah. Yeah. Our guest is Stuart Mandel from The Athletic
does a great job and covering college football and also
the podcast The Audible right yes, yeah, So of all
the things that you do, you're a multi talented guy.
There's one thing I don't think you can do, Stuart.

(01:24:40):
I don't think you can be elected mayor Van Arbor. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:24:46):
I think that ship is sales.

Speaker 3 (01:24:50):
H do you want to summarize for our listeners. I
thought it was a terrific piece, a great assessment of
the lunacy and involved here. But can you give us
the cliff notes and one hundred words or less?

Speaker 6 (01:25:06):
Well over the last two years is that we waited
on this decision on Connor Stallion. I think the main
thing people would ask me is should the national title
have an asterisk next to it? And I said no.
They got rid of him before they played all their
biggest games that season in the playoffs, So I don't
know how you could say what we saw with our
own eyes didn't happen when this report came out. It's

(01:25:29):
not that I think there should be an asterisk. I
just think that Jim harbaugh tenure is really tarnish now
because you read forget the actual theme that was at
the heart of this right which people can reasonably debate
how important or not important. That was the behavior of
the people there once they got exposed, throwing throwing phones

(01:25:50):
into the bottom of the pond, destroying evidence. Jerome Morgan
asked why he deleted those texts. He says from Connor
Stallion's he says he clearing up storage space to the
lying and deceiving, and it's like, were these guys running
like this is stuff you'd read about somebody running at
criminal enterprise, not a sign stealing scheme. And now Jim

(01:26:13):
Harbaugh's banned basically from college coaching for fourteen years, which
is just unheard of. So they'll never be able to
take away the title, they'll never be able to take
away the wins. They happen, Michigan fans should definitely celebrate them,
But this has been a total scene on the integrity
and the way that school has kind of always held
themselves as being, you know, at a higher standard.

Speaker 3 (01:26:36):
Yeah, and I mentioned this. I was reminded of us
the other day that the image has not necessarily matched
the reality that Michigan is the only program that has
been on NCA probation more than once for football, in
basketball with the largest dollar amount scandal inter fractions has

(01:27:00):
ever dealt with with the Fab Five, and then also
in baseball and also in hockey. So if you want
to talk about leaders in best, it doesn't really match
the facts and the brand of Michigan that block ms
that you see everywhere around the world. Maybe the shady

(01:27:23):
Yellow is a little different.

Speaker 6 (01:27:27):
I didn't I didn't even know about some of the
ones you mentioned. Obviously, I remember the Fab five. I mean,
I think this is the third football case going back
to the rich Rod Practice one.

Speaker 3 (01:27:37):
That's right.

Speaker 7 (01:27:39):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:27:40):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:27:40):
What I've always said is like everybody cheap, there's no
there's nobody playing on a higher plane than anybody else
in college football. They're extremely competitive programs. They're looking for
any edge they can get, and frankly, the NCAA only
catches a small fraction of the offenders. But you know, Michigan,
I found that Jim Harbaugh clip from the press conference

(01:28:01):
the morning after the national title game where somebody asked him,
you know what it means to win the national title
as a Michigan man, and he kind of starts to
pontificate about what that means. And he says, and I
quote that, that a big part of it is you
don't lie, you don't cheat, you don't steal, like geez,
they went, oh for three. You know, it's it's it's

(01:28:24):
it's fine. Like I'm not here to say, you know,
these are the worst offenders in the history of football.
They're not, But like, let's just accept it. The Michigan
man taken. There's nothing evinguishing them at this point from
the schools they think they're above.

Speaker 3 (01:28:40):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's right. I want to ask
you about another investigation, and we got news today that
Pat Fitzgerald and Northwestern have a settlement. And you don't
need to hold a benefit for Pat Fitzgerald, but looking
at what he did and seventeen years there, and he

(01:29:02):
does have a four Bowl winning streak going and three
double digit win seasons there, five with nine wins or more,
which I didn't think I would so ever see at Northwestern.
If he has been exonerated or as much as you
could be by the investigation of this, do you think
we'll see him as a college head coach again?

Speaker 6 (01:29:25):
First of all, you really was exonerating. You don't really
see this very often when the two parties reach a
settlement for the for the school to basically admit like, yeah,
you're right, we never found any evidence that he knew
any of this stuff. And they didn't say like we apologized.
It came off very like we screwed up.

Speaker 7 (01:29:45):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:29:45):
I think if you look at the entirety of his
career and full disclosure, I went to college with him
in Northwestern, so I always have another soft spot for him.
But yeah, I mean he turned that program into an
annual Bowl team or almost annual bolt team. Ten win seasons,
they went to the Big Ten title game twice. The
problem for him at the ended on a bad note.
I mean they went three and nine and then in

(01:30:07):
the very last season one and all eleven. So you're
not getting if you hire Papist Trail now, you're not
getting kind of peak career there.

Speaker 3 (01:30:15):
Right.

Speaker 6 (01:30:16):
So even if you can overlook the hazing scandal, I
just it would be a hard sell to meet for
a major program to hire.

Speaker 3 (01:30:23):
Me as a head coach.

Speaker 6 (01:30:24):
Now, if you're a group of five program, if you're
an STS program, sure why not. You know, a situation
where you're not, you know, dealing with multi billionaire or
boosters who want to see a big name and whatnot.
But the guy knows what he's doing. He had a
rough ending there obviously at Northwestern. I think he made
some poor staff hires at the time, and then you know,

(01:30:51):
once nil in the portal became a thing. You know,
Northwestern Stanford, these schools are very disadvantaged in that right.
So that was it was kind of at the beginning
of that era, but that was starting in playing factor
as well.

Speaker 3 (01:31:05):
The fact that his last team went one and eleven.
I can remember when that was the standard at Northwestern,
and you know they did bet your house that they
wouldn't win ten games three times in a decade. But
I go back to a Northwestern era, Stuart, long before
you were there. And in nineteen eighty nine, Northwestern came

(01:31:29):
in to play Michigan State and a snowy day here
in East Lansing, and the Spartans were doing everything they
could not to score because George Purlis didn't want to
get Francis pay fired, and the Spartans won seventy six
to fourteen on a twenty eight yards quarterback sneak at
the end of the game. It was supposed to be

(01:31:51):
a kneel down and it was. It was bizarre because
there was so much snow in the stands that the
student and decided that they were going to try to
hit all the Northwestern players in the helmets with these
ice balls. And finally Francis paid motions Perlos out to
the center of the field and he says George, I'm

(01:32:14):
telling you, if one more of my guys gets hitting
the head with the ice balls, we're out of here.
You'll be out here playing the game by yourself. Of course,
George didn't want to be out there anyway, right, he
wants to be somewhere warm, and he's got about a
forty five point lead. So when Francis pay turns around
to walk back to the sideline, George is encouraging the students, like,

(01:32:35):
throw more ice balls, right, he wants to get this stayboard.
And finally Michigan State gets the sixty nine to fourteen,
and you know, they manage not to have an extra point.
They don't get seventy, and George thinks, okay, we're good.
A minute to go, and of course Northwestern fumbles a kickoff,

(01:32:59):
so you know, you've got the four string quarterback in there,
and the idea is okay, is you know, and of
course the guy quarterbacks needs for a touchdown. So it
was one of those deals. But that was kind of
what Northwestern was for a lot of that time. And
then starting with Gary Barnett and then going on I

(01:33:19):
mean sort I remember when he came out with the
take the purple to Pasadena. You were there, and yeah,
I was. You know, they're laughing at this, right, they're
laughing at the coach saying this, and and then that's
exactly what he did.

Speaker 6 (01:33:38):
And ever since then, the whole I mean, frankly, to
be perfectly honest, the reason I became a Collar, the
main reason I became a college football writer was that season,
seeing how it. I mean, when I got there, people
were so apathetic about football, and they brought the whole
campus together and it was you know, from that point forward,
they were much more of a football school. Certainly not

(01:34:00):
Ohio State, right, but you know, have held their own
for the most part in that conference in terms of
just getting the bowl games and obviously getting at the
big tentitle game. You know, I think as much as
we see a small group of schools dominate at the
top of the sport, the beauty of college football is
that almost anybody else has a chance to be relevant.

(01:34:22):
You know, we saw, I mean, the Indiana story last
year was the Northwestern ninety five story all over again,
where they just came out of complete nowhere and made
the playoffs. You know, you mentioned nineteen eighty nine. That
was I just in my head. I'm thinking that's also
the year Bill Snyder took over at Kansas State, and
you know, they were the dregs of what was then
one A football and became a powerhouse. There's hope with

(01:34:45):
the right coach and the right support. Yeah, school, there's
hope for anybody out there.

Speaker 3 (01:34:51):
Our guests the Stewart Mandel sl Mandel M A N
D E. L X Stewart at Theathletic dot Com follow him.
He's a great follow a great read set. Thanks so
much for joining us. I appreciate it, all right, thanks
for having me. We will be right back and you're

(01:35:13):
gonna hear from Pat Caputo and he's gonna fill us
in a little bit about his take on the Tigers.
Not quite so worried about the Cleveland Guardians as he
was two weeks ago. And we'll get his take on
Michigan as well. He's been very vocal in the past week.
Be right back on the drive with check.

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Speaker 5 (01:37:20):
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Speaker 7 (01:38:37):
Welcome back.

Speaker 1 (01:38:37):
It is a drive with Jack the Spotlight Radio Network.
Jack Eblin here with my producer Boston Rob.

Speaker 3 (01:38:44):
Rob.

Speaker 1 (01:38:44):
You know, yesterday a group of us went down to Coomerica.
I finally finally saw the Tigers win a game after
four losses this season, and then we did the show
on the way back. Five of us, Jim Keaton driving Bluebelly,
Tom was there, Fred Thompson, Jay Green. We had a
great time. I want to welcome in someone who is

(01:39:07):
an authority on the Detroit Tigers and if you've heard
him on the postgame shows, if you have read his
things At ninety seven to one at the ticket dot com,
Pakaputo joins us, Pat, how are you.

Speaker 7 (01:39:21):
I'm doing well?

Speaker 3 (01:39:21):
What's up? Jack?

Speaker 7 (01:39:23):
Good to hear you had a full car and we're
doing your show.

Speaker 1 (01:39:26):
So yeah, I know what I said. That was the
clown car, but there you go. We had a good
time down there, a lot better time than fram Burvell
Does did well.

Speaker 7 (01:39:39):
Yeah, that was kind of strange because I've never seen
Framburvel Does ever, like really really struggle in the start,
and that was just incredible and just incredible series. The
Astros I'm the opposite end of the scale, and the
Tigers at the top of their game. It was amazing
to see. Yeah, I don't know, I.

Speaker 3 (01:40:01):
Was really surprised by that, to say the least, the
way that series winning.

Speaker 1 (01:40:05):
Maybe it's just baseball, pat, but we saw the Tigers
drop eleven out of twelve and have the best record
in the American League, and we saw the Astros Nott
score for thirty and two thirds innings.

Speaker 3 (01:40:20):
How does that happen? I don't know.

Speaker 7 (01:40:24):
You know, the game has series zibs and flows. Actually
was twelve out of thirteen the Tigers lost, Yeah, and
then you know, since then they've been playing great. All
the angst about the trade deadline. You know, Charlie Morton's
been really good, Sinnigan's been lights out. You know, Paddock
has the least had two decent starts out of four,

(01:40:46):
and you know, you throw in Rafael Montero doing okay. Sometimes.
You know, there's not a lot of angst about the
trade deadline because all the Tigers have done since then
has win right exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:41:00):
So I think we talked when Cleveland was making a
run and you said that that was a team that
you couldn't kill him. I just kept lingering around, and
now it looks like maybe they've realized that they're not
supposed to be in this. They're ten and a half
out and behind the Royals by a half game. Who
do you think finish the second in the Al Central.

Speaker 7 (01:41:24):
I'll go with the Royals because they added Scrimsky and
needs helped them. They lost a tough one yesterday. They've got,
you know, a bit of a chance here against the Tigers.
They're playing them head to head sooner than Cleveland will
I don't know, but you know it's always hard for
me to for the reasons I said before, to go, well,
how many times have we counted Cleveland out? Yeah, there

(01:41:46):
was an old movie. It was Glenn Close and Michael Douglas.
I forget the name of the movie, which he kept
out of the Yeah, fatal attraction with the knife, you know,
And you know that's way Cleveland is. You know, I
call them a bad fungus, you know, the stalkers, you know,
but I don't know. You know, the Braves had the

(01:42:07):
answer for them. Of all teams, you know, that corpse,
that's the Atlanta Braves so yeah, that surprised me, you know,
but that's you know, but Jack ain't about baseball, and
all sports are like this. All sports are like this,
but baseball in particular.

Speaker 3 (01:42:22):
It's a long season.

Speaker 7 (01:42:23):
There's a lot of different games, and there's so many
ebbs and flows, and you know, who knows. The Tigers
play the Royals this weekend, the Royals win three games,
and then next thing, you know, we've got panic mode again.
So yeah, yeah, I thinking happen because Kansas City's got
good pitching.

Speaker 1 (01:42:43):
What do you think chances are pat that this team
could roll to stunning win total. If they go twenty
and thirteen in the last thirty three games, they'llbeit ninety
six and sixty six. I'd say they win ninety six
or ninety seven games and have the best record in
the American League. It's still possible that they could sit

(01:43:06):
out the wildcard round, come back and get beat in
an Alds series, and then you've got the Detroit Lions
all over again.

Speaker 7 (01:43:16):
Well that's anything's possible like that. I mean, nobody in
Houston last year, you know, they thought that that team
had played a tremendous pace all, you know, after a
really poor start, and they get into a series and lose.
So the Tigers are in any kind of series, it's
a five game series, you know they could lose. You know,

(01:43:36):
it's not like you know, there's no no predictability of it.
They can beat any team in the American League, we
know that. But any team that will be in the
postseason is capable of beating the Tigers. We know that.
So we will see how it actually goes. They're not
a dominant team. The big question I think is who's
going to be the number two starter? Based on what

(01:43:58):
Flairty did the other day, certainly you would say him,
But the games he started this year, they're eight to
seventy is it my? Is it Morton? What will he
be throwing like at that point? Would it be melting
because he's you know, throwing so well, you know who's
going to be their number two? And do they have
enough in the bullpen? The trade deadline still will loom

(01:44:23):
at that point because if they can you imagine if
they had Finn again, Bednar and vest you know the
way they're set up now, it's one day you get
that group, all right, that's gonna be tough to beat.
But what about if you get the other groups that
they have to throw out there, you know what I'm saying.
So you know, those are the factors that go in

(01:44:43):
and hitting. You know, the Tiger's got a good hitting club,
but hitting comes and goes on whimsical ways in baseball.
You know, how much are they going to be hitting
at that time? And they're going to be seeing better pitching,
you know, so how are their hitters going to adjust that?

Speaker 1 (01:45:01):
Yeah, I'm thinking that this team is going to win
the division by I said more than eight games, and
then it's it's a crapshoot. I mean, you go up
against Houston again, and we know that Hunter Brown and
Trek Skoobel, I mean they're both capable throwing shutouts, so

(01:45:22):
you could lose that game. The same thing if you
want against the Red Sox and and Garrett Crochet was
on the mound, you could could lose that game. Play
well and still lose it. So this is not a
free pass into the Alcs we saw a year ago.

Speaker 7 (01:45:37):
You know, you know what team I think is the
best suited for the playoffs in col because they're pitching
is so good. You know, you know, the big dumper,
you know it just keeps dumping home runs, and you
got Julio Rodriguez has turned around his season, and you know,

(01:45:57):
you just you know, and you got a real good
bullpen there with Munios at the end. Seattle, to me,
would be the most dangerous team they could play in
the postseason. Now, Boston, he brought up some good points
about them, but they got a few holes in their
lineup and pitching staff. None of these other teams are,
you know, as complete as Seattle. So I would say

(01:46:23):
that Seattle's probably the team that if I were, you know,
like hey, bad, you know, picking the postseason, and you know,
I didn't take the Tigers into consideration, Like I'm in Detroit,
you know where people get mad, and I'll say this,
I think Seattle would be the team to be. Now,
They're not going to have maybe the home field advantages

(01:46:46):
or whatever, but I do like their chances based on
what we saw from Houston here of passing Houston and
winning the division and maybe getting on a bit of
a role here at the end of the year. You know,
Josuarez hasn't hit for them, but they've gotten some production
out of Naylor and they.

Speaker 1 (01:47:05):
Had another home run yesterday he's up to thirty nine,
so he's he's starting to get it, and I think
he will. But if you look at Arosa.

Speaker 3 (01:47:12):
Raina dumber last year.

Speaker 1 (01:47:16):
Yeah, person, Yeah, you've got you got five guys there
at the top of the Yeah, exactly. They can be
can be pretty scary. You talk about Kansas City.

Speaker 7 (01:47:27):
For pitching, They're pitching, they're starting pitching is better than
anybody else's.

Speaker 1 (01:47:33):
Yes, I think so certainly deeper if you get down
to the four and five guys that it would definitely
be that. I was thinking about Bobby Witt junior pat
and not having the year he did last year, but
still a really solid year bat in two ninety four,
and he has a chance to make major league history.
You probably know this if anyone does, but he could

(01:47:54):
be the first player ever to have a season with
fifty doubles and forty steals. No one has done that.

Speaker 3 (01:48:01):
And he has doubles.

Speaker 1 (01:48:04):
Yeah, he's leading the majors with thirty nine doubles and
he has thirty two steals. So in his final five
plus weeks he can certainly get eleven doubles an eight
stolen bases.

Speaker 7 (01:48:21):
Yeah, I can imagine that. I mean, you know, he's
a great player. He truly is. You know, he hasn't
played at an MVP level this year, but I can
imagine that he's one of the great young stars in
the game. He's one of the top ten players easily
in the game. So yeah, that wouldn't surprise me. I
wonder what he would do in a park, or maybe

(01:48:42):
he's a little more homer friendly too, you.

Speaker 1 (01:48:44):
Know, yes, yes, yeah, I had one other stats thing
here I thought was really interesting. Pat Josel Tub last
week became the twenty fifth member of the two hundred
and fifty two hundred and fifty club on hundred and
fifty homers and two hundred and fifty steals. Twenty five guys,
Now I've done that. If he gets three hundred homers,

(01:49:07):
so he needs fifty more homers, and he's thirty five
years old playing in the bandbox. He's already got three
hundred and twenty three steals, I think, so he needs
fifty more homers. He'd be the ninth guy to be
in the three hundred, three hundred club. And if he
could steal like twenty seven bases and the rest of
his career, might be able to do that on double

(01:49:27):
steals and then hit one hundred more home runs and
he's averaging a little better than twenty a year. He
would join Barry Bonds as the only players in the
three fifty three fifty club. Willie Mays didn't make it.
Guy who almost made it, surprisingly was Bobby.

Speaker 7 (01:49:44):
Bonds, right, well, not really, I mean he was five
to two guy.

Speaker 3 (01:49:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:49:52):
You don't think of him as being one of the
greatest players in history. But Aldeb to me, it looks
like he's gonna be a Sinshall of Famer. Somebody wants
to hold him responsible for the sign stealing.

Speaker 7 (01:50:04):
Well, I also think it's amazing you know that he
could do that. If you were running back at Michigan,
Mark Dantonio would have had a lot of fun with that.
I couldn't help my.

Speaker 1 (01:50:20):
Heart shot, you know, I love.

Speaker 7 (01:50:21):
It, little card shot right there, you know. Or we
could talk about our friend Earl could not only look
to mind eye could say, hey, shorty, Uh, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:50:32):
One other thing about alto me that I think is interesting.
I don't if everybody else does. But uh, he is
second on the list for postseason home runs all time
with twenty seven. Right, he's two behind Manny Ramirez and
now they're playing so many postseason games. Pat, he could
hit three this year.

Speaker 7 (01:50:52):
Yeah. You know you asked the question about Hall of fame. Uh,
you don't have a Hall of Fame, Bote.

Speaker 3 (01:50:58):
I would vote for Josel even to me if he didn't.

Speaker 7 (01:51:00):
Play another games a Hall of Famer or an answer
to your question. In my opinion, he's one of the
great players of this generation, no question.

Speaker 8 (01:51:11):
All right.

Speaker 1 (01:51:11):
I want to switch gears here, and you know you
kind of brought up the University of Michigan, but I
had a couple of people send me a piece you
wrote you want to explain what you think Michigan has
done to its brand, its legacy through all of this scandal.

Speaker 7 (01:51:33):
Well, yeah, I mean I've always had, you know, the
utmost respect for me. Yeah, yeah, like deep respect. I
knew both Shimbcker. I think that's you know, pretty well
known from his time with the President of Tigers. I
think broke Bo Shimbacker is a great man. I knew

(01:51:53):
Gary Moeller very well from his time with the Lions
when I was a b writer there. I had conversation
with you guys that are pretty deep. Uh and uh,
Gary Moeller to me was a great man, and uh,
Lloyd Carr I didn't know quite as well. And I
didn't know him really anything like that, but you know,
in the media scrum and I upset him a great

(01:52:14):
deal one time. He gave me a stink guy for
like five minutes at a news conference.

Speaker 3 (01:52:21):
You know, because yeah, I don't believe all had it.

Speaker 7 (01:52:24):
Uh you know, I mean it was just so. But
I really like Lloyd Carr, really admire Lloyd Carr. I
think of all the players that I've known down through
the years and done shows with, actually.

Speaker 3 (01:52:37):
Look like this.

Speaker 1 (01:52:38):
There are any of them are around right now or
they're not part of this group? Well there, you know,
they're hypocrites of the West.

Speaker 7 (01:52:46):
They are hypocrites of the West.

Speaker 3 (01:52:49):
Uh, you know.

Speaker 7 (01:52:50):
So, And I know a lot of kids I played
sports with that went to Michigan played sports. I'm going
to see one on Friday that was the Big ten
m VP baseball player, you know, a.

Speaker 3 (01:53:00):
Long time ago.

Speaker 7 (01:53:01):
So a friend of mine, a good friend of mine
from we put teammates in high school and other dudes.
So to make a long story short, I'm going to
get to the point.

Speaker 9 (01:53:11):
Michigan.

Speaker 7 (01:53:12):
You know, they had a reputation for being above the fray.
Now they're arrogance and some of the other things, and
the Michigan man and all stuff was annoying, but everybody
admired this. And now I've talked to enough coaches and
I know you have to that recruiting against Michigan is
very difficult.

Speaker 4 (01:53:29):
Because of that.

Speaker 7 (01:53:29):
It doesn't matter what sport, and Michigan is a jewel,
crown jewel to our state. But this, you know, and
the fact that they didn't get the penalties and it
didn't mean anything, they paid a severe price for this.
They've been hypocritical beyond belief. They're so insular it's unreal.
They could care less about the outside world. The amount

(01:53:53):
of missteps by their athletic department since twenty twenty one
is stunning. And somehow he still gave word manual the
you know, athletic director of the Year for what, you know,
the lack of his When.

Speaker 1 (01:54:08):
Football team wins a championship, that often goes with it.
But if you look at the history here, Pat and
you know, I've had people send me stuff in the
last month about what they did in cheating in nineteen
oh seven. I don't care about that, but if you
look at compared to other schools, they do have the record.
No other school has been put on NCAA probation in

(01:54:31):
football more than once, in basketball with the largest monetary
scandal in NCAA in fractions history, in hockey and in baseball,
So in all four sports they're the only ones who
has a probation Grand Slam.

Speaker 7 (01:54:49):
Well, they weren't put out in probation for the SAB five,
were they. That was all self enforced and then they
didn't put them on.

Speaker 1 (01:54:56):
And the NCAA came back and said, yes, you know,
we accept these but they did enough to strip and
to do other things, but there wasn't NCAA no.

Speaker 7 (01:55:07):
But yeah, I'm no. I mean, it was a torrible scandal.
Their basketball program is dirty for a number of years.
So probably go back to Dave Strack. How did all Kazis?
They were terrible in basketball for decades and all of
a sudden, Kazie Russell shows up there with Bill Budden
and Oliver Darden and then it just went on and
on through Freeder. But you know, and then I know
he irritated both but you know, I just have to

(01:55:29):
tell you, you know, just Jim Harbaugh, specifically the biggest
Jim Harbaugh. You know, I really liked Jim Harball. I
mean really like him. You know, back to when he
was a Lions it was his last gas and I
talked to him at that training camp. I was a
beat writer that this guy's impressive, ice, quirky, all this stuff,
great coach, and now I just you know, he totally

(01:55:52):
just did the thought of him. You know, his hypocrite,
hypocrisy stunned me. You're taking it back. All these wonderful
Michigan people that I've known, I still feel that way
about them. But you know, their Border Regents was, you know,
you know, everybody you know, justifiably just all over the
Michigan State's Board of Trustees for decades. But a clown

(01:56:14):
show that is then. But you know, the Border Regents there,
these dignified people turned their back to it. And their
president that they had at the time, Jack, that man
wasn't a man. That was actually a hologram of a
smiling emoji. So you know this is correct. Yeah, yeah,
he's a smiling emoji. That's what he was. So they

(01:56:36):
had no enforcement. They turned a blind eye to it.
They were so frustrated about not beating Ohio State, not
beating Michigan State, never went into Big Ten Championship, not
going to the BCS or CFP, that they would do
anything to just claim a natty, and that natty could
not be more tainted even if they took it away,

(01:56:58):
all right, because you know, everybody outside of their insular circle,
you know, is looking at them like they're you know,
look the term leaders and the best when when you
hear that, Jack, what's the first thing you meet and
you can say it to the Lantine people. Well, no,
they were talking about Paduka, Kentucky. Everybody's smirking at that
and laughing at that. All right, their reputation has been

(01:57:21):
soiled in irrerep hurt you on repair and then on
top of it, and this was the.

Speaker 3 (01:57:30):
Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 7 (01:57:31):
That's that's the exactly, you know. And the NCAA didn't
do anything to them, you know. And and you think
about Connor Stallions.

Speaker 9 (01:57:41):
What produces that, what produces that? Connor Stallions is the
new Michigan man. He's a Walmart Wolverine, he's a fan. Unbelievable,
and they actually hired the.

Speaker 1 (01:57:56):
Guy causes two years shorter them. Jim Harbaugh's show cause
on top of another show cause.

Speaker 4 (01:58:06):
But it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (01:58:07):
He's off of that in twenty thirty eight. He's never
coming back. It's not going to be relevant.

Speaker 7 (01:58:12):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:58:12):
It was just something that they could say, well, you know,
we imposed a penalty, and a thirty million dollar fine
is going to be nothing for Michigan. They have a
nineteen point two billion dollar endowment, their athletic budget two
hundred and thirty point six million, and if they had
to write a thirty million dollar check, they've got a
list of people who could do it.

Speaker 7 (01:58:33):
So well, they don't have to write to check either.
Read that they don't. They're just they're just taking away
the money from their postseason games so they don't have
to do that.

Speaker 4 (01:58:41):
The NCAA.

Speaker 7 (01:58:42):
Did you know, the NCAA is on its way out,
and who knows what the new enforcement people are going
to be. But twenty years ago they would have gotten,
you know, loss of a bunch of scholarships when that mattered,
you know, been taken off TV, you know, had postseason
banned for three years or something like that. Uh, they
would have got what use the USC got when Reggie

(01:59:04):
Bush thing came down. But you know, it's all irrelevant
because you know, everybody knows everything. Deep down they know, okay,
deep down they know. All these sycophants, most of them
who didn't go to the school there, the Walmart Wolverines,
they all know that. They all know that, and they
always say the same thing. Well, it's a sports or

(01:59:25):
the Buckeyes against us, or it's like, oh, you're just
jealous of what we did and are it. No, it
has nothing to do with that. It has to do
strictly with I was disappointed.

Speaker 1 (01:59:36):
Eds I'm beyond disappointed in Dave Portnoy, but I don't
even paying attention to what he says. But but some
of the Michigan men, guys who had done it, I think,
and done it with some valor. Uh you know the
fact that they're saying, hey, you know what, we didn't

(01:59:56):
do anything. They didn't find anything. You know, guy robs
a bank and he gets out.

Speaker 9 (02:00:01):
Of the well, you know.

Speaker 7 (02:00:03):
And Brilliant is one of the people that I worked with.
And I like Braylan a lot. And I really like
his dad, Stean, you know a lot. Okay, So I
liked them both very much. But the one thing about
Braylan Braylan is uh, you know, we'll never like the
Michigan State beat him. It's like it didn't matter or whatever.
He goes into that mode for some reason, you know.

(02:00:25):
With that. So you know, as Braylan and the other
other other folks there, they know they're smart enough to
know that it's wrong. But on the other hand, they're
loyal to their UH schools.

Speaker 3 (02:00:37):
I want to make all of our special guests today.
Tony Garcia from that he tried to free press covering
the University of Michigan. I appreciate his insight on the
upcoming season and the ramifications of the Committee on in
Fractions report. Stuart Mandell one of the top college football writers,

(02:00:57):
and he's also weighing in on that and the season
here about to begin. Deshaun Tate, our lasting bread Alata
based basketball savant. It's takes Take Hoops where Basketball Lives.
Jim Gumm from the Blitz Newsletter Off to another great season.

(02:01:18):
Highly recommend that you get access to that and it
is free with the price and Pat Caputo the ninety
seven to one the ticket you can hear him after
games Tigers games and of course read his comments. A
terrific piece he just did about scandal. Mission Sea mar
we One a great nights,