Ep. 2914 Thursday

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
This is it right here, combining a team of reporters,
columnists and commentators.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Are you serious?

Speaker 3 (00:14):
Jack Ebling has brought thought provoking discussion.

Speaker 4 (00:17):
What are you doing?

Speaker 1 (00:18):
That's a day in coaching the faith opinion.

Speaker 5 (00:21):
Customer, the one who decides when the future gets here?

Speaker 4 (00:23):
Oh no, just check the report.

Speaker 5 (00:29):
Are you curing me?

Speaker 6 (00:30):
That game was fixed?

Speaker 7 (00:31):
And overall infotainment.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
I'll take Jim Irba. What is he's done?

Speaker 5 (00:36):
Grease gouda cominati?

Speaker 6 (00:40):
Quiet?

Speaker 8 (00:41):
Please exactly fifteen seconds we'll be on the air.

Speaker 6 (00:44):
Thanks, big fellow.

Speaker 5 (00:44):
Don't you ever come.

Speaker 9 (00:45):
Back here again?

Speaker 5 (00:46):
No arguments. Those are called ashtans.

Speaker 6 (00:49):
So buckle up.

Speaker 10 (00:50):
You're telling me it's time for the Drive with Jack Ebling.

Speaker 5 (00:55):
Yeah, for some reason or another, who signed a little
toler Ready? Great afternoon mid Michigan and beyond, and welcome
to the Drive with Jack the Spotlight our radio network.
Jack heblin here with my producer Boston Rob on a
gorgeous Thursday afternoon here in Greater Lansing, sixty degrees and sunny,

(01:19):
just about all you could ask for here for early October.
And it's that time of year. Rob. We have everything going,
the start of college hockey's regular season for Michigan State
tonight against New Hampshire, a game that we will be at.
For most people, their focus is on the Detroit Tigers,

(01:39):
now forcing a game five tomorrow night back in Seattle
Trek Scouble against we believe George Kirby on the mound
for the Mariners. Detroit Lions will be headed to Kansas
City for a game against the Chiefs that had been
circled on a lot of calendars. We have high school

(02:00):
football continuing now into the second half of the season,
but locally a lot of people paying tremendous attention to
college football, and a very interesting week in the Big Ten.
No one better to talk about that than our first
guest is Tony Garcia. It's a great job covering the

(02:21):
Michigan Wolverines four the Detroit Free Press. Tony, how are you, Jack?

Speaker 8 (02:28):
I'm well. Quite the sports equinox we have here, isn't it?

Speaker 5 (02:33):
It is? It certainly is. Where are you as we speak?

Speaker 8 (02:38):
I am still at home getting ready. I will fly
out to California in a little under twenty four hours,
and then we got game day not long after that,
so we're about four I guess what are we be
fifty one hours and some change away from kickoff because
it'll be a nighttime kick here. Yes, so yeah, I

(02:59):
get out to tomorrow afternoon.

Speaker 5 (03:03):
When I was out there a couple of weeks ago,
and it was actually three weeks ago, Michigan State played
in the LA Coliseum, I left early Thursday morning, and
I always tried to steal an extra day in southern
California when I can, and went to my first game
at Dodger Stadium, and you know, I didn't know I

(03:28):
was working for most of the time out there. I
had so much fun. But you sound like this is
going to be a real business trip for you.

Speaker 8 (03:36):
Yeah, you know it was terrible planning on my part. Jack,
I'm not gonna lie. Normally, I'm so used to just
because I got the I got the dog, I got
the fiance, I got the home life. I normally try
to go out to things Friday night and get back
Sunday morning as best I can. But LA is not
the trip to do that for.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
I should have.

Speaker 8 (03:53):
Taken an early flight tomorrow, gotten in there, and then
maybe gone to Manhattan Beach or something. However, the last
time I was at Manhattan Beach, the Pacific Palisades were
on fire because I was there Michigan basketball. Michigan Basketball
was playing in the second part of a double dip
last January against USC and UCLA, and I was grabbing

(04:16):
lunch there one day and I walked down to the
pier and I look up and I knew something was wrong.
I did not know everything that was going on, but
it all escalated very quickly. But yeah, no port planning
on my part. We'll get them next time.

Speaker 5 (04:33):
Tony, the media contingent for across country trip like this,
I usually break them down into two categories. There are
those who want to stay by the airport, they want
to come in, they want to stay as far away
from all of the congestion as they can and just
do what they need to do. And there are those

(04:54):
who want to immerse themselves in it and stay as
close to where the action is happening. And I usually
fall into that category. When I go to USC, I
stay at a place called the USC Hotel. Not a
great name, but it's across the street from campus. It's
like staying at Kellogg's Center if you were to come

(05:14):
to Michigan State and they have a place called the
USC village, which is like a second campus that they
have built and as their honors college and some dormitories,
but just an amazing environment there. North, I guess a
little bit off of Figaroa. So if you go there

(05:35):
and you get a chance to see that, it's really
an innovative campus design because they had the old campus
and they said, Okay, now we're going to add to it.
What do we do? And it's really an interesting place.
And then south you have the big soccer stadium and
you have the coliseum where the Olympics have been held.

(05:59):
And what they've done on the inside of the Colisseum
now is very different from what it used to be.
They've shrunk the capacity, but you're going to see a
very electric environment and a lot of Michigan fans will
be there. It seemed like USC bristled a little bit
the idea that the only way they could fill up

(06:21):
their stadium was with help from Michigan fans. But they
do not fill it up for all the games. Probably
three a year, I would say, our sellouts. So you're
going to see the coliseum at its best.

Speaker 8 (06:34):
Yeah, that's the expectation, and I mean they don't have
to like it right, But I mean those sellouts are
usually what like Michigan, Notre Dame, Penn State, Ohio State.
I mean, I've gotten pushedback on this before, but I
stand by it. LA is not a sports town. There's
just too much going on there. And I mean they

(06:54):
love USC football when it's good, and right now it's
kind of petering on that, but there's just I mean,
they don't know the grind that we go through here
with the weather and not having superstars walk up and
down every block. I mean, sports is what we have here, right,
and especially a big, massive brand like Michigan. They I

(07:16):
mean they travel shown more. Was calling it Michigan West
earlier this week at his press conference. Now that is
in large part because the expectation is there, not the expectation.
What they will be doing is Michigan's flying out today
a day earlier than normal so they can acclimate to
the time change, and then tomorrow they will be practicing

(07:38):
at the Bolt, which is the Chargers two hundred and
seventy million dollars practice facility. I think they know somebody
or somebody's affiliated with the Chargers over there, so so yeah, no,
I mean I expect a massive, massive Michigan contingent this weekend.

Speaker 5 (07:59):
What'd you ex expect Jim Harbaugh to be at the
game Saturday? I don't know.

Speaker 8 (08:04):
There are the Charger The Chargers are playing in Miami,
so he will not he will not be available, so
he wonts No.

Speaker 5 (08:11):
No, Well, it's going to be a game that a
lot of people are anxious to see, and the USC
is a slight favorite in this game. What do you
make of the matchup?

Speaker 8 (08:26):
I think it's I think it's a really fun matchup, right,
it's it's kind of a good on good situation. UFC
the number two total offense in the nation to this point.
They got a they got one of the top two
or three passing attacks. They also got a top twenty
rushing game, number seventeen in the nation. They're putting up

(08:50):
five hundred and sixty five yards of offensive game against
the Michigan defense. That's top ten. That has just been
everything that you sort of have come to expect from
a Michigan defense. And then on the flip side, Michigan's
offense has been better than I don't know about better
than expected, but certainly better than a year ago. But

(09:11):
so too has USC's defense. Now, there have been problems
at times with the defense. I think we saw in
Michigan State sort of have their way a bit with
the USC's defense. Illinois certainly did, putting up thirty four
points in a win at home. But you just I
mean it's I mean, it's really there's just a ton

(09:31):
of star power in this matchups. I mean, as there
is with the brand. It's just like that on the
pay on paper. I mean, you guys got to see
him firsthand. I mean, Jade Miamia is very good. Mckayin
Lemon is extremely impressive. Wayman Jordan can run the rock.
The tight end is a really good, is really good.
That that linebacker Gentry, I mean he looks like he

(09:52):
should be a small forward. I mean, I mean that
guy on tape is like really incredible. So just I mean,
pretty much everything you want, and it's just going to
be who's who is able to Michigan. Michigan's defensive line
coach Louis Posito had a good line like, this is
not about to be like who's the prettiest team, right,
and these teams can can often both find themselves very pretty.

(10:15):
This is going to be about toughness, and in that regard,
it's hard to not give Michigan the edge in toughness.

Speaker 5 (10:24):
Should Michigan be favored in this game, Tony, and who
wins it?

Speaker 8 (10:30):
I don't know that that. I don't know that they
should be favored. It is just so tough. Last year,
I think teams were six and twenty two going from
East coast or midwest to the West coast. It is
just a really hard situation. One of those losses was
Michigan going to Washington. That's why they've sort of switched

(10:50):
up their their protocols this year or their game plan.
And so, I mean, it's just so hard to pick
a team like that. And this is not a bad
USC team by any means, right like this is. I mean,
they're both born and one teams, both got a ton
to play for, and so no, I mean I thought
it might be a little closer to it pick them.

(11:11):
It opened at one and a half. I was surprised
it went out to two and a half. However, I say,
I was surprised, and then here I was picking USC
to win the game. I just Michigan has I mean,
it's what they do, so you can't expect them to
not do it is win the turnover battle. Michigan has
won the turnover battle in all five games this year,

(11:33):
but USC is also very good at at forcing a
forcing teams to give the ball by both teams have
generated nine Michigan is plus six in that category. USC
is plus four. I wonder if USC can just keep that.
Even what that's like now, I do think Michigan.

Speaker 6 (11:52):
It was funny.

Speaker 8 (11:53):
I think maybe I'm a little biased because before the year,
as I was mapping things out, I picked this as
a loss for Michigan. And it's just kind of hard.
I tell you last week, I'm hardheaded. It's hard to
just get myself to the to the other side of
seeing something like that. But when I was doing my
scouting report and prediction wish we'll be up on Saturday
morning on free dot Com, the more I was writing

(12:17):
about it, I was like, man, I like, I just
kept leaning Michigan more and more and more. But I
couldn't bring myself to take them all the way just
because it's just because of where it is. If it
was at home, there's no question I'd be picking Michigan.
But I mean, I think Oklahoma. I did not see
I mean, of course Michigan could have won. I didn't

(12:39):
really see much of a path the victory for them there. Nebraska.
Technically Nebraska could have won, they kept it kind of close.
I didn't see much of a pass the victory for
Nebraska there because of the loser DNA we've discussed. This
is the closest just I mean, I really really could
see this one either way.

Speaker 5 (12:59):
Yeah, and I think if you look at the game
last year in ann Arbor, the USC feels that it
was the better team and let one get away. We
remember the run at the end of the game that
really turned it, and then Michigan got to score it needed,

(13:19):
But it looked like Miller Moss was completing passes at will.
Would you expect USC to throw for over three hundred yards?

Speaker 8 (13:30):
Over three hundred is a lot on Michigan. I mean, now,
Michigan's rundy is certainly better than its pass defenses. But
I mean, I guess, so USC's averaging three point thirty
eight a game, I don't know that they get over
three hundred, I mean over two point fifty. I would
expect I think, maybe right in that two seventy five range.

(13:50):
Put if USC passes for more than three hundred yards,
then I think they will definitely will win the game.
I mean that would be something really serious for them
to do. But yeah, last year, I mean you talked
about last year in that game and obviously the Colel.
Mullings run, Michigan won a game with not three hundred

(14:10):
yards of passing, not two hundred, not one hundred, not
fifty thirty two yards of passing offense, and Michigan won
that game. So in some ways, it kind of gives
you confidence if you're Michigan, right, I mean, we beat
these guys without as semblance of a passing attack. Now
we have Bryce Underwood, Now we have Donovan McCully who's

(14:30):
opened up. Now we have Andrew Marsh who helped Donovan
McCauley up open up. Marlon Klein is getting coming back
from that ankle injury. I think they're expecting Hogan Hansen
to go so for the first time this year, Bryce
will have had some games under his belt, Andrew Marsh
will be in the fold, most of their top tight
ends will be in the fold, and USC's pass defense

(14:52):
has been gettable. As you saw firsthand that Michigan State
has a good passing attack too, but but USC has
been suspect in that regard, and so I just it
just feels like it's going to be a high scoring game,
which is not what Michigan plays a lot of, and
USC might need. Well, USC is overall the better offense.

(15:14):
It's they have a great offense, Michigan has a great defense.
Michigan has very a very good offense, and USC just
has a decent defense. So I keep finding edges for Michigan.
But because of where it is, it's so tough to
tech a team to win in that spot.

Speaker 5 (15:33):
If you were the coach of either team, would you
take thirty one points right now?

Speaker 2 (15:40):
So I do?

Speaker 8 (15:41):
That is right?

Speaker 2 (15:41):
What I have?

Speaker 8 (15:42):
I have thirty one twenty seven was my was my
official score. But it felt it almost felt love. I mean,
I just I can't like, in good conscience pick a
game that Michigan's playing in for both teams to get
into the thirties, because I think this is year four now.
Other than team that TCU Fiesta Bowl game, I don't

(16:05):
think I've seen one I don't like. I mean, I
mean so often, I mean, Michigan does not give up
more than twenty four twenty seven points, and if they do,
they're not scoring it. Like there was a couple of
times last year, like Oregon I think got thirty four.
I think Texas got thirty one, but that was like
thirty one to twelve and thirty four fourteen or something, right, Like,
it's not that they just don't get in these shootouts

(16:27):
where both teams are going back and forth and back
and forth. It's just so rare. So I if I
was Michigan, I would sign up for thirty one. If
if I'm Michigan, I'll say, yeah, I'll take thirty one
points and I trust that we can can hold them
under it. If I'm USC, I don't quite know if
thirty one's enough. Again, I picked it to be enough,

(16:48):
but I've I've this is the toughest pick I feel
I've had all year.

Speaker 5 (16:56):
There aren't many programs that have a historical edge over Michigan,
and in this case, these teams haven't played often. In fact,
they haven't played in Southern California since the nineteen fifties.
I believe USC does have a very slim edge, mostly

(17:20):
based on Rose Bowl victories. But looking at this from
this passionate point of view, Tony a lot of people
are looking at this as the Arrogance Bowl. USC is
a private school and it's considered to be very smug.
Michigan is a public school that thinks it's a private
school and leads the nation in smugness. So I think

(17:44):
from that standpoint, you can see why there's some friction here.
And you know, you talk about last year's game, how
Michigan managed to come away with a win. You looked
at you and say, how did this happen? So I
think has kind of had this one circled. I don't
know if this is the biggest or second biggest game

(18:06):
on the Michigan schedule. I think the Oklahoma game because
of Sharon and and everything with that, that was certainly
a big game. You've got Ohio State at the end
of the year trying to stretch it to five some
other games before that happens. There's a game not too
far from here that some people care about. So where

(18:28):
would you say this game ranks from one to twelve
and the Michigan attention.

Speaker 8 (18:34):
Level, I think it's got to be for me, and
even going into the year, I've put this one at
I guess I did difficulty ranking and I ranked it
at three, but in an importance ranking, I ranked it
at two because.

Speaker 6 (18:52):
You could lose.

Speaker 8 (18:53):
You could lose the Oklahoma game and still have like
that was I called that house money game. You could
lose it and they're still room to work with, right,
But now that you have lost it, they got they
got to get this USC game. Otherwise they must run
the table in order to go to the College Football playoffs.
And that's just not a place you want to be

(19:14):
at four and two, needing six straight wins. Even if
you feel like you should beat Washington, feel like you
should beat Michigan State, feel like you've had the upper
hand on Ohio State. All these things are true, but
to do it six times in a row is not easy.
And that's why I mean, I've called this game sort
of the pendulum swing game. I mean, this is the

(19:34):
fourth in the road they are going one way or
the other. I mean, in the parallels to last year
while they want to avoid them and they say, this
is an entirely different team and nothing like last year
is going to happen. I mean, they were ranked four
and four and one go into the West Coast last
year and they got popped by Washington and then they
went one and four over their next five games. I

(19:56):
am certainly not suggesting that's what's about to happen, but
it's a I mean, the parallels are are kind of there,
just in terms of I mean, they lost, they lost
to like a Texas Oklahoma game, then they bounced back
with a couple of uninspiring wins. Right, it was like
Nebraka was a little uninspiring and Wisconsin was uninspiring. Last

(20:16):
year it was USC that was uninspiring. It was Minnesota
that was uninspiring. And now you're going to the opposite
side of the country. And I mean I think that
I think Michigan was favored in that game over Washington
when they lost it. So I mean there's a difference there,
but Michigan's got like you just for my money, the
way I view this, I think this is the second

(20:38):
most important game on their schedule. Of course, they would
rather I mean, if I told them they're going one
on one and they're losing the USC and beating Michigan
State or losing the Michigan State and beating USC, they
would all take it out here to take a win
over Michigan State. Like I'm not saying that not important,
but just for the grand scheme of the schedule that
this is. This is the second most of in game

(21:00):
of the year.

Speaker 5 (21:02):
What do you make of the other Big ten games
this weekend. Let's start with Indiana at Oregon and Kurt
Signetti thinks that they're never going to lose.

Speaker 8 (21:14):
Yeah, no, he really does. I mean, what what a
fantastic slate this is. I mean, this is the I mean,
how many times are we going to have to keep
asking Indiana to prove it? It's like, I mean, I'm
as guilty as anyone of moving the goalpost on them
because it's just so hard to believe. And I mean
I still and again maybe it's the hard headedness. I

(21:36):
just think that Illinois spot, it was just a spot.
It was just that day. They are certainly not fifty
three d points better than Illinois. I mean, I just
refuse to believe that under any circumstance. And I mean
there will be no more goal post moving in any way,
shape or for me. If they go into outs in

(21:56):
and beat Oregon, I mean that would be I mean,
that's that might be the win of the year in
college football, right, I mean, I mean top five top
three performing like you can't not you can't win there
without your a game, And so I'd.

Speaker 5 (22:11):
Go one step further than that, Tony, And have you
been to autsin Stadium.

Speaker 8 (22:18):
It's the last one I gotta get to. Well, Oregon
Eugene is the last big ten city I gotta get to.
I think we're going there next year though, which I
am super pumped up about.

Speaker 5 (22:27):
Yeah. I think it is the best home field advantage.
And it's not the biggest stadium, certainly not one hundred
plus thousand seats, but I think it's the most intimidating,
more than Kinnick Stadium. So I would say that if
Indiana can go in there and win, in light of

(22:48):
what they did to I think a pretty decent Illinois team,
I would put Indiana number one on my ballot ahead
of Ohio State next week.

Speaker 8 (22:58):
Wow, I don't I don't hate that. I don't hate that.
I mean, although if Ohio State in this Ohio State,
they're playing Illinois obviously, so if they win against Illinois,
I mean, people are going to have trouble just with
the brand of that, but I mean the wins wins
would be better. And like say, Ohio State beat Illinois

(23:19):
by ten. Right, It's like, well, Indiana beat him by fifty,
you beat him by ten, and they got to win
over Oregon. No, it'd be hard, it'd be hard to
argue with. And I think whichever team Oregon or Indiana
wins that game, I think their quarterback is going to
be in the short short list of Heisman candidates at
the midpoint of the season.

Speaker 5 (23:41):
If Indiana somehow wins this game, and let's say Ohio
State and Illinois play down to the wire and Indiana
is to ever climb to number one in the rankings,
would the Earth stop spinning on its axis Indiana being
numbers played football?

Speaker 8 (24:00):
I know my earth would if I mean, if Indiana
football is ranked number one, I don't. I mean, I
guess that'd be really fitting for twenty twenty five and
just sort of where we're at in the world, I mean,
where nothing is unbelievable. That's about as unbelievable as anything
possibly could be, especially because their basketball program just remained

(24:22):
so mediocre. It's just, I mean, we are living in
the upside down world. I'd tell you.

Speaker 5 (24:28):
That's right, that's right. Two more quick questions. What are
we going to see here? Saturday with UCLA, a team
that was routed by New Mexico and lost to Northwestern
and then dominated Penn State held on for a five
point win, but I was in control and ran for

(24:51):
two hundred and eighty yards against the Nitney Alliance. Coming
in here facing the Michigan State team that agged went
away last week in Lincoln some horrendous special teams mistakes.
What are we going to see? Is UCLA a totally
different team now or with a nine am kickoff for

(25:13):
their body clocks, are they going to look like the
team that we saw for the first month.

Speaker 8 (25:18):
I think I like this spot for MSU, you know,
I mean just after I mean after the amazing win,
right like the world was against you, you shocked the world,
and then now you've got to travel across the country
to I mean, I mean it'll be It's kind of
not that the Spartan Stadium is sleepy, but there's not

(25:41):
a ton of juice around the program right now. But
it is homecoming, so there will be some people and
some alumni back even more so than usual for this game,
and you just got the win of your season. Everybody's
riding high like I would almost if I'm like Michigan State.
I almost prefer that they just beat Penn State as
opposed to had they had they been moved to zero

(26:03):
to five and this week they fire their coach and
now you're getting the new coach bump, like the one
week invigoration of the juice. So I mean, I mean,
if Michigan State doesn't meet UCLA at home, I mean
Jonathan Smith might as well not even show up to
the press conference and the Tomizo building on Monday or whatever.

(26:26):
I mean, that would be inexcusable. Inexcusable.

Speaker 5 (26:32):
Yeah, I think that that would be not the beginning
of the end, because some people are already on that train,
but it would certainly be almost impossible to come back
from last thing. For you, how long is Bill Belichick
going to be coaching at North Carolina when the board
is having secret meetings and talking about escape strategies and

(26:54):
conversations about this. Didn't we just start this thing?

Speaker 8 (26:59):
Yeah, if it was up to me, When when my
girlfriend fifty years my younger, was instructing whatever it was
the sixties or CBS The Minute, whatever show, whatever documentary
it was that and she's saying, we're not asking those
questions and then she's patrolling the sidelines at and my

(27:21):
practices at my games, I mean the circus that I mean,
there was that fading. This fading this North Carolina season
was easier than fading Deon Sanders going to Colorado. I mean,
sometimes you can just see Mount Vesuvius about to rup
before it does, and this was just like just a catastrophe.

(27:42):
I mean, I don't know how North Carolina is not
just completely ashamed, embarrassed, humiliated. I mean, I mean it's
not like the football team is a proud program. But
I mean I mean Mac Brown and recent like recent years, right,
and then Drake May and Maarion Hampton. I mean they've
had some studs. They've had some good players like Chip

(28:04):
Lindsay was just there and he can obviously call plays.
They've had some football people who know what's going on.
And it's an unbelievably prestigious university with a good athletic
department overall. I mean, like I mean not just ment basketball, right,
but like they I think it's winnings like field hockey
or lacrosse or soccer that like they just hired their

(28:25):
former player and then she like she won like four
national championships. As a player and then one one as
a coach or something. I mean, I mean, they they've
got it all. And so to let your uh, to
let the biggest money sport flounder like this in such
humiliating public fashion is just I mean, it's it's despicable. Frankly,

(28:46):
I don't understand how Bill Balichick is still there.

Speaker 5 (28:50):
I really don't. Tony, have a great time out in
southern California. We'll talk to you next week.

Speaker 8 (28:57):
Thanks, Jack, appreciated talk to you next week.

Speaker 5 (29:00):
Tony Garcia of the Detroit Free Press. We'll be right back,
and we're gonna talk with Ryan Field from WABC in
New York. Coming up next on the Drive with Jack.

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Speaker 4 (33:07):
The.

Speaker 5 (33:09):
Yankee Jack Boston Rob at his best there had to
bring out Big Poppy for that nice job. Rob. Want

(33:32):
to welcome in our next guest and you know him
for tremendous work. It is time here in mid Michigan
and then Metro Detroit and then la as the first
voice you ever heard on FS one now as sports
director lead anchor the number one affiliate in the country.

(33:53):
That would be w ABC in New York. Ryan Field
joins us, Ryan, how are.

Speaker 10 (33:58):
You always a pleasure my friend? How are you, sir?

Speaker 5 (34:03):
I am fine, but I'm trying to make some sense
of these American League divisional series. And if you had
told me yesterday, just about this time, when the Tigers
were still trailing three nothing in Game four, and you
had said one of these games is going to go
to one of these series is going to go to

(34:24):
a game five, I would have said, well, Vegas is
telling me the Yankees are a big favorite. They're a
lot more likely to beat Toronto tonight than the Tigers
are to have this comeback against Seattle. Instead, Tigers scored
nine straight runs and the Blue Jays brought out their

(34:46):
hitting sticks again and had fun with New York pitching.
What do you make of these two series?

Speaker 10 (34:53):
Well, first off, I can promise you everybody here in
the newsroom at WABC knew the Tigers game was on yesterday.
As I was making quite the scene throughout the game,
I had to remind everybody where my rooting interests fly. Obviously, listen,
I think baseball the beauty of the baseball playoffs. It's

(35:14):
a lot like the NHL playoffs, where the unexpected tends
to happen more often than in football and basketball. So
you have a lot more variables in baseball where things
can kind of go sideways, and you know the Tigers
will start there for all intents and purposes, for five innings,
look dead in the water. The crowd was booing. They

(35:34):
didn't even sell out, the first non sellout for a
postseason game in Tiger's history, I should say, in America
Park history. So you could tell like fans had kind
of given up on this bunch, and frankly, what they
had witnessed for the last two three months, it's hard.

Speaker 6 (35:49):
To blame them.

Speaker 10 (35:50):
But all of a sudden they caught fire. They had
the inning where they scored three straight runs, and then
Riley Green hits the home run, and then it's Baiez,
and then it's Clamber Torres, and all of a sudden
you were reminded, oh, yeah, this team once was the
best team in baseball for the better part of almost
four months. So all of a sudden they looked like
that team again. Out of nowhere, and you were like, oh, yeah,

(36:14):
it's nice to see these guys again. And as for
the Yankees and the Blue Jays, I mean, as we've
seen a Yankees' postseasons past, especially under Aaron Boone, you know,
they don't tend to rise to the moment when a
team puts pressure on them, outside of Game three against
Toronto when Aaron Judge had that incredible signature moment frankly

(36:34):
one of his best postseason moments as a Yankee. But
I don't think anybody here was surprised to see the
Blue Jays, who many felt were a better team even
though they finished with the same amount of wins, but
better built for postseason success. I don't think anybody was
surprised to see that. And unfortunately that's the way it
went down for New York. And again they enter the

(36:55):
offseason with a lot of remorse, a lot of regret,
and a lot of things to kind of look back
on and see what can they do better next season.
But I fully expect Brian Cashman and Aaron Boone to
be back again, so they're going to try to run
it back another time and see if they can end
now this sixteen year drought without winning a World Series?

Speaker 5 (37:16):
Ran, can you rank the top four teams in the
American League?

Speaker 10 (37:20):
I mean, I don't think. I don't think anybody can
at this point. I mean, do I think Seattle is
probably a better top to bottom team than the Tigers.

Speaker 6 (37:30):
Probably.

Speaker 10 (37:31):
I think their lineup is better. Their bullpen might be
a smidge better. Maybe across the board starting pitching wise,
they're better. But they don't have anybody better than Trek Scoble.
You know, do I think the Blue Jays, no matter
who comes out of the other while alds between Seattle
and Detroit, do I think the Blue Jays would be
favored to win? Absolutely? They look like a machine right now.

(37:55):
So you know, I guess of the teams that are left,
I'd probably go Toronto, Seattle, Detroit, New York, even though
New York just got eliminated last night. But again, I mean,
you could ask one hundred people and you'd probably get
a hundred different answers how those four would be lined out?

Speaker 5 (38:12):
If Seattle gets past Derek Scooball yet again, seems incomprehensible
that he couldn't get a win this year over the Maritors,
But it's possible if that does happen back in the
Pacific Northwest, and the Tigers and the Yankees are out,
they're not going to play consolations series. But if they did,

(38:34):
or if they had both advanced, let's say they had
both won, what would a Tigers Yankees series led.

Speaker 10 (38:41):
Yeah, well, selfishly, I was definitely rooting for that, especially
after covering the Pistons and Knicks in the spring, I
was certainly rooting for a Tiger's knicks. I'm sorry Tigers
Yankees alcs, but I think it would have been a
great series. I think the Tigers pitching, you know, they
came in here to Yankee Stadium in September and beat
the breaks off of them for two games, put up

(39:01):
double digit numbers or double digit runs in two games,
and I think they know how to pitch to the Yankees.
I think I still would have given maybe a slight
edge to the Tigers in that series, but I think
it would have been a lot of fun. And especially
you know, you look at recent history. The Tigers have
won their last three postseason series against the Yankees, so
you know, clearly not afraid of the moment. When looking

(39:22):
at the historical perspective between those two franchises. But yeah,
I mean, it would have been fun to see it
all play out. But going back to your point about Schooble,
I find it hard to believe that to your point
that Seattle not only has won all three matchups in
games started by Terry Scouble this season, I find it

(39:42):
hard to believe, with the law of averages, that they
would find a way to win a fourth meeting with
Scooble on the mound. I just can't fully wrap my
head around that. The guy who's the best pitcher in baseball,
and if I'm a Tigers fan, that more than anything
has me feeling optimistic heading into my That and the
fact that the offense finally woke up over the last

(40:05):
four innings yesterday, So you have to feel good. You know,
at the start of this series. If you have said, hey,
you got Trek Scuble going on the mound in Game
five on the road to advance to the ALCF, I
think anybody would have taken it. I guess the flip
side would be they were in the same position last
year in Cleveland. Was Scooble on the mount in a
Game five and couldn't get it done. But I am
willing to bet Jorge Polanco will not hit two home

(40:27):
runs off Trek Scouoble tomorrow that I feel quite certain of.

Speaker 5 (40:32):
Do you think that you're going to be watching a
lot of Trek's Scooble in twenty twenty seven in Yankee Stadium?

Speaker 10 (40:39):
Yeah, I mean maybe even next year, maybe a city
field or Yankee Stadium.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (40:44):
I mean, if he's you got to figure that they're
going to try to get ahead of these conversations, and
if he's going to walk, you can't lose. You can't
lose him for nothing. And you don't want to wait
till the trade deadline because then it's kind of a
diminishing returns. At that point, you're not going to get
the same hall. So if they come, if they talk
to Scott Boris and they're not in the same stratosphere

(41:05):
you and I have talked about this on this very program.
I think you go ahead and pull the trigger and
get a slew of young players, and you know, not
that the Tigers need any more of those, but maybe
you know two or three everyday contributors and maybe a
couple other prospects, and go ahead and keep on keep
on trucking on. I mean you see a guy like
Troy Melton kind of coming out of nowhere, you kind

(41:27):
of cement him as a starting pitcher. Next year they
still have, you know, hopefully they resigned Flarity and Mize,
you know, so they definitely have and if they go
out and get somebody else, you could have the makings
of a solid starting rotation. But you know, if I'm
not going to re sign Trek Scooble, I can't lose
him for nothing. It's as simple as that.

Speaker 5 (41:43):
Yeah, a lot of people are surprised that Casey Miz
has more pitching victories. Again, that's a very deceptive stat
but has more victories than Terrek scoobol this year. And
as far as keeping Jack Flaherty, as long as they
keep me away from Jack Flaherty.

Speaker 10 (42:01):
Yeah, I was gonna say he was not happy to
see you at the game the other day.

Speaker 5 (42:10):
But the word got to him that I was there.

Speaker 10 (42:12):
And that way, Well listen, and frankly, he hasn't been
as good at home, so you got to figure that
he'll start Game one of the Alcs if they get
there Sunday night. And you know the fact that he's
been much better, especially in the postseason on the road.
I think I kind of like that he would start
game one, you have myes going game two, and then
you'd have Schooble going game three in game seven, so

(42:35):
not a bad place to be again. But they got
to win tomorrow night first, and I haven't fully decided
if I think they're going to yet, but I'm really
hoping that they do.

Speaker 5 (42:47):
Talking about Aaron Judge and the home run he hit,
I've never seen a home run quite like that. The
ball was so far inside I don't know if the
thing might hit him, and all he does is bang
at high off the fair pole. That was one of
the most amazing swings I've ever seen. And then I
had just seen cal Raley after the three hour rain delay,

(43:10):
hit a line drive into left center field, batting left handed,
so opposite field line drive that the shortstop could have
jumped for. I mean, had a launch angle so low.
It just kept going and the outfielders just couldn't believe
the ball kept carrying, and then it bounced into the

(43:32):
glove of a guy who was wearing a shirt it
said dump here, sixty one Mariners fan who was beside
himself that he retrieved the ball, but the amazing part
Ryan was as soon as he put the ball on
the glove down he changed into a shirt that said

(43:52):
dump here sixty two, hoping that there might be a
second ball land in his glove. So two of the
most amazing home runs you'd see in the same day
or same period of time, in the same round of
the playoffs. But normally I don't like ties and things
like this. There was one in seventy nine with Willie

(44:14):
Stargel and Keith Hernandez. But if these guys tied for
the al Most Valuable Player, could you really say one
of them didn't deserve it?

Speaker 8 (44:25):
No?

Speaker 10 (44:26):
I mean this is a neck and neck al MVP.
And you know John Smoltz was talking about it yesterday
or it might have been the day before in the
Yankees broadcast. How cal Rawley is going to get a
lot more votes than people think just because of the
position that he plays and the fact that he's squatting
behind the plate for nine innings and the amount of
how taxing that is on your legs. To have to

(44:47):
do that and then to still come out and lead
the big leagues with sixty home runs is just an
incredible feat. A couple notes on those home runs, Aaron Judge,
it was almost one hundred miles an hour fastball that
was more than a foot off the center off the
plate from the center of the plate, and it was
the hardest hit ball he'd ever hit for a home
run in his career. And to your point, that thing

(45:09):
went three quarters up the foul pole. It wasn't like
it nicked it just over the wall. I mean, it
was an absolute bomb. The Mariner's home run was crazy
because cal Rowley hit it to the one Mariners fan
who was in left field who happened to be wearing
the shirt and it bounced right to him. I mean,
he could take a thousand more swings and not have
it happen the way that it did. And then to

(45:32):
take it one step further. Kyle Schwarber last night was
the first player and it's so funny you mentioned him,
the first and only player since Willie Stargel in the
late sixties to hit a ball out of Dodger Stadium
from the through right field and not left field. So
he Willy Stargell was the last to do it before
Kyle Schwarber last night, which was an absolute nuke to

(45:54):
right center. So three very historic home runs for different reasons,
but all that we've witnessed in the last couple of days,
and frankly, just the beauty of the baseball playoffs.

Speaker 5 (46:06):
You see Aaron Judge on a daily basis, and we
know that Henry Aaron the Major League Baseball home run
leader on non righted players, would you say that Aaron
Judge is in the conversation with Henry Aaron And if
you had to put one of them in right field,

(46:28):
who would you pick?

Speaker 2 (46:29):
Man?

Speaker 10 (46:29):
For my money, I mean, this is recency biased, but
watching what Judge does, and I know his postseason numbers
haven't been great, but this series against the Jays, he
batted five hundred sort of career for postseason RBIs in
a single series had arguably, like I said, his signature
October moment. The guy is six foot seven. It just
you see him in his uniform, especially in person, and

(46:52):
just just a mountain of a man. Looks like he
should be playing d line for the Lions. And the
fact that he's doing all this and he made a
couple of nice diving catches in Game three, I mean,
the guy is just unbelievable and doing that here in
New York under the pressure under the spotlight, under the
bright lights just kind of takes it to a whole
other level. And they're already talking about putting him on

(47:14):
the Yankee Mount Rushmore. When you consider the amount of
historic names that have played for this franchise, they're already
saying Aaron Judge might be one of the fourth greatest
Yankees of all time. Pretty much tells you all you
need to know.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (47:27):
So if you are open to the idea of picking
Aaron Judge, I had of Henry Aaron in the Battle
of the Erons, who would you rather have Ryan Aaron
Judge or show Hey Otani?

Speaker 10 (47:41):
Well, I think I mean with Otani just because of
the starting pitching aspect that he brings. I mean the
guy that woulready have a sub three era as a
pitcher and still hit fifty plus home runs. I mean
he's a unicorn not seen since Babe Ruth. So only
because of his pitching prowess, I would say Otani just
because he's more of a you know, I hate even
to say well rounded player, but he just brings more

(48:03):
to the table.

Speaker 2 (48:04):
He just does.

Speaker 10 (48:05):
He doesn't bring, obviously the defensive prowess that Judge brings
out there in right field. But you know, if for
my money, I would certainly do that. And you know
now that you got me thinking, maybe we cook up
a little Trek Schooble for Aaron Judge trade. Would you
do that?

Speaker 6 (48:19):
When Jack?

Speaker 5 (48:20):
What do you think in a second second, the Yankees.

Speaker 10 (48:30):
Only if we promise him that it's October Hobby bias,
and maybe they'll agree to that.

Speaker 5 (48:34):
Yeah, someone said that they were going to send Hobby
a calendar, but all twelve months we're going to be October.

Speaker 2 (48:43):
I'll tell you what. Man.

Speaker 10 (48:44):
They call him El Mago, and you see this magic.
You know, back when he played with the Cubs, and
you almost forget how much of a dynamic player that
guy was in his quote unquote prime and now you're
seeing flashes of it again. I mean, he's just electric
and he's such which you know, shortstop is such an
important position on the baseball diamond, and the fact that
he's such a steadying force there and slick with the glove,

(49:08):
and it's just it's kind of remarkable to see. So
hopefully he can keep this up, and if he hits
a home run tomorrow, I think the Tigers win for sure.

Speaker 5 (49:17):
You said you think that Aaron Boone and Brian Cashman
will be back. Yeah, is there anything could change that
you don't expect to.

Speaker 10 (49:27):
I just can't see it. Yeah, I mean ever since
you know, George passed away. I guess, what was it,
fifteen years ago, since Hal took over, maybe seventeen years
ago since Hal took over, it's just been kind of
you know, Cashman's the only guy that's ever run his
baseball operations, and I just can't see him pulling the plug.

(49:49):
I mean, because it's not like the Yankees don't have
a good team. Was it the best constructed roster? Alex
Rodriguez said last night in the postgame show was the
worst constructed postseason roster he's ever seen. Now, I'm sure
he's got a little bit of bias because he played
with the Yankees, saying that they had three left handed
hitting catchers, five designated hitters, so you know, he he
was kind of going off on Cashman a little bit.

(50:10):
But you know, again, fans want to see people fired,
but the question then becomes, who are you going to
hire that's going to be better than Brian Cashman? You know,
who are you going to hire that's going to be
better than Aaron Boone. I mean, it's not like this
is a sport that is just crawling with top flight
executives and top flight managers. I mean, how many retread
managerial hires do you see where you know a guy

(50:31):
failed in one place and they bring him somewhere else. So,
I mean, it's it's just, you know, it's it's the
old be careful what you wish for. I don't necessarily
think it's either Boone or Cashman's fault. They just lost
to a better team. But I'll be curious to see
how the Yankees kind of restructure and retooled this offseason.

Speaker 5 (50:50):
We know the Yankees have won more World Championships than
any franchise, and the twenty seven rout twenty seven the
longest drought between championships seventeen years, Right, it's correct, eighteen
seventy nine through nineteen ninety five. That many seasons. But
we're at sixteen now sixteen and counting. What are the

(51:15):
odds that we are in the midst or near the
end of the longest World Series drought in Penstrip's history.

Speaker 10 (51:23):
Yeah, I mean, listen, I mean there's there's a lot
of fan bases that would love to say, Wow, you've
only haven't won a title in sixteen years.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
I feel so bad for you.

Speaker 10 (51:30):
But you know, with the Yankees with their payroll, yeah,
the Yankee excuse me, with their payroll and their expectations.
I think the bigger concern is Jack. I mean, Aaron
Judge is about to turn thirty four. You know, they're
they're kind of wasting his prime years if you will,
do I expect him to have a sharp decline next year?
Absolutely not. But another year older is another year older,

(51:51):
and you know, John Carlo Stanton's going to be thirty six,
so you know they might have to kind of, you know,
make some more lineup altering moves than they planned on
so they can really maximize Aaron Judge here for the
next two or three years where he's really, you know,
at the peak of his powers. That to me is
the bigger issue going forward. Do I think right now

(52:13):
that the Yankees win the World Series next year?

Speaker 2 (52:15):
No? I don't.

Speaker 10 (52:16):
I mean, it's kind of insanity, if you will, doing
the same thing over and over again, they keep running
back the same type of team that's either home run
or bust. Starting pitching is okay, the bullpen's decent, not great.
They've been kind of running out the same team for
the last ten twelve years and just haven't gotten any
of the results. They came close last year, but frankly
got smacked by the Dodgers in the World Series. So

(52:39):
you know, I don't see them winning the World Series
next year, but I guess it just depends on what
happens this offseason.

Speaker 5 (52:45):
Three more quick questions before we let you go. We're
talking with Ryanfield WABC in New York. Appreciate every minute
of his time. What happens Sunday night? Lions in Kansas
City to face Patrick.

Speaker 10 (52:58):
Mahomes, And you know what I was thinking about today?
Can you imagine if it's Tigers, Blue Jays, Alcs Sunday
Night as well as Lions Chiefs Sunday night, you talk
about an all time Detroit sports day. Jackie might even
have to take Boston robouts of crunchies and then be
watching on all the TVs there to make sure you
guys don't miss a minute of either game.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
But it's one of those.

Speaker 10 (53:21):
Things where do I think the Lions are gonna win?

Speaker 2 (53:23):
Yeah?

Speaker 10 (53:23):
I think they're a better team than the Chiefs. Am
I feeling better?

Speaker 8 (53:26):
About it.

Speaker 10 (53:27):
Now that the Chiefs lost this last weekend to Jacksonville. No,
Kansas City's two and three, Can I see them falling
to two and four. That's kind of tough to accept.
I don't know if I can see that happening. But
the Lions should win on Sunday Night because I think
they're a better team even though they're missing their three
of their top four cornerbacks, including their two starters. I
think it's going to be a high scoring affair. That's

(53:48):
going to be one, you know, thirty eight thirty five
type style that the Lions.

Speaker 2 (53:52):
Pull it out.

Speaker 5 (53:53):
Okay, we are on the verge a start of another
NBA season. Guys has a better chance to be in
the NBA Finals. So the Detroit Pistons are the New
York Knicks.

Speaker 10 (54:06):
I thought you were going to say the Knicks are
the Nets and I was going to say, wow, Jack,
you're making my life real.

Speaker 6 (54:10):
Leaves me with this one.

Speaker 10 (54:12):
I mean, listen, the Knicks. The Knicks should be in
the finals, and they are the betting favorite to make
the finals. I think they're a better team than the
Caves when it's all said and done, especially with the
tweaks they made but don't overlook those Detroit Pistons. I
firmly believe that if Isaiah Stewart was healthy last year,
that they might have beaten the Knicks in that series.
He said as much, and I've had a couple of

(54:33):
Knicks beat writers tell me as much that they felt
that the Pistons would have won that series if he
was there to defend Karl Anthony Towns. And I think
they're right. And you know, I think the Pistons are
going to be better this year. And frankly, I'm hoping
for an Eastern Conference Finals Pistons Knicks.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
Wouldn't that be something?

Speaker 10 (54:48):
If the Pistons have a game, get Game six at
LCA to close out the Knicks to go to the
NBA Finals, that would be absolutely incredible.

Speaker 5 (54:58):
Last question for you, Michigan State homecoming Saturday at noon
against the UCLA.

Speaker 6 (55:05):
They better wins.

Speaker 5 (55:07):
Yeah, they better win. Michigan State. Now it's seven and
a half point favorite, one up. Now it's back down
to seven and a half, but more than the touchdown.
If Michigan State does not win this game, right and
they fall to three and three, would you agree to
be on the selection committee for the next head coach.

Speaker 10 (55:25):
I think I'm already on the selection committee for the
next head coach. And you know, in today's world of
the portal and everything else, I mean, there's no reason
a school with Michigan State's resources should be should be
this far, this far behind other schools, especially school like
Indiana in you know, in terms of the football program.

(55:46):
And do I like Jonathan Johnathan Smith, I really do.
I think he's a good dude. I don't know how
great of a football coach he is for this program.
I think the Nebraska loss was certainly concerning, but I
fully expect him to beat UCLA this weekend. Rise to
the occasion. But where they're going to find two more
wins the second half of that schedule, Jack, That is
going to be easier said than done. That's why that

(56:07):
Nebraska game was such a swing game for the season.
So before I would have said it's a lock they
get to six, maybe seven wins, but now I'm not
so sure.

Speaker 5 (56:17):
Yeah, And if the odds makers are correct, Ryan, and
Michigan State does beat UCLA and USC does beat Michigan
in the Arrogance Bowl out in southern California, then you know,
both these teams are going to have the same record
four and two at the break at the midpoint rather so.

Speaker 10 (56:39):
Yeah, and they might they might have the same record,
although Michigan State has to play Indiana before they play Michigan,
so I believe the Spartans will be four to three
before they face a Michigan. But I will definitely be
pulling for the Trojans this weekend.

Speaker 6 (56:52):
Jack.

Speaker 10 (56:53):
I think that goes without saying, all right, Ryan, thanks.

Speaker 5 (56:57):
So much, appreciate your time and watching. Yeah, thanks so much,
Ryan Field at WABC in New York. Let me get back.
We're gonna talk with Rick Goslin, Hall of Fame, pro
football writer and college hockey aficionado. We're also going to
talk with Clinton Jones, two times All America running back

(57:20):
and the star of Michigan State's last win over UCLA
that was in September nineteen sixty five, sixty years ago.
Be right back on the drive with Jack. Game Day
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Man, what jewelers, Oh, welcome back.

Speaker 5 (01:00:25):
It is a drive with Jack the Spotlight Radio Network,
Jack Ebling here with my producer Boston Rob. Rob. Want
to go right back to our guest line. And it
is the first night of the regular season for Michigan
State Hockey. A guy who loves Spartan hockey college hockey
in general, even though he is more closely associated with

(01:00:46):
the National Football League as a Hall of Fame scribe.
Want to welcome in Rick Goslin. Rick, you were just
watching college hockey last weekend, right, Yeah?

Speaker 6 (01:00:57):
Sure, something weekend in Arizona and saw the Arizona State
Penn think there he saw Gavin McKenna making his college debut.

Speaker 5 (01:01:06):
Pretty comebacks right for the Lyons. How good is Penn State?
And how good is Gavin McKennon.

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
Uh, Canna's guy.

Speaker 6 (01:01:16):
He is terrific in space. No, I didn't see a
whole lot of him going to Traffick, but you know
he's five and sixty pound kid. But a guy like
Gretsky didn't go to Traffick either, all right, right, terrific
pas terpet terrific passer and triffic skater.

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
The whole thing.

Speaker 6 (01:01:32):
He's got the whole package. At past State it was
the frozen fourteen.

Speaker 4 (01:01:37):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:01:38):
Serado had a big, big weekend. He had two goals
and thanks for you assist the first night. He's a
good player.

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
He is just a little low. Note.

Speaker 6 (01:01:48):
His father, Vinnie, was the personal director for the San
Francisco forty nine ers in Washington resident right, I knew
him in Yeah, yeah, I knew.

Speaker 5 (01:01:58):
I know me.

Speaker 6 (01:01:58):
He's a quarterback in Iowa State. That but I say
Arizona State. It's a program, but it's not to the
level of the big daen schools. I think there'll be
more physicality in the Big ten and that's that will
be a better measure for from Canna when you get
to this level, you know, I think it's a it's

(01:02:20):
a natural stepping stone. I think they'll see more and
more players coming down here from the Canadian junior leagues
because when you go to college hockey for that one
year you're playing against men state junior hockey, you're playing
against seventeen eighteen year olds. It'll be an easier transition
for these college kids and these junior players to go
through college hockey to the NHL because of the physicality

(01:02:42):
and an actually stay in game. And I think it
will benefit the cannon, it will benefit Montrone, the kids
in Mission State, It'll make it'll make the game better.
The sad thing for me is that these kids aren't
college students. They're coming for one year. They're just using
them statistone in NHL. And I'm kind of a purist.

(01:03:04):
I went to Michigan State to get my college education. Yeah,
and all of college sports now nil transfer portal kids
going to three four different schools, right, and you know
how many transcripts are being exchanged these schools and these
kids transfer. Yeah, so I'm kind of a purist. I
don't like to say it, but it will make for
a better brand of hockey. It's coming season, right.

Speaker 5 (01:03:27):
You and Mike Pursuda have made an annual trip back
to East Lansing to watch Michigan State hockey during the winter.
And I know tickets are tougher to get, but just
talked to someone who didn't know there was a game,
came in from out of town, has gotten two very
good tickets for tonight's game, So they are available. Rick,
you just have to be a little bit clever on

(01:03:50):
how you do it and I think that you and
pursuit are certainly capable of that.

Speaker 6 (01:03:54):
Well, he and I are. I've had another weekend. I
come with my two brothers and we've already been closed
out look and go into ferr State for a weekend
series in in February. It's tough. It's tough getting tickets
for New Hampshire. It's not like getting tickets to Penn
State or Michigan or Minnesota. And that's the problem. You
want to see. I want to see the more competitive games,

(01:04:16):
those Big ten games. But you know, the Lower Bowl
has already been sold out. I don't even think they
sold sing single game tickets. It's getting very difficult to
get tickets for mixt games unless you're you know, go
early in the season to the winsor game last week
for the New Hampshire game season non compence games.

Speaker 5 (01:04:32):
I would think that in your case, uh, just dropping
the name Rick Goslin could get you a seat in
the press box. I don't know what that does for
your brothers.

Speaker 6 (01:04:41):
Uh, it leaves them out, them out outside would transit
to radios those still exist.

Speaker 5 (01:04:49):
Let's talk.

Speaker 6 (01:04:50):
I I may, I'm may get back one with Mike.
I don't know what Mike and a couple. We'll probably
get back for football or hockey basketball weekend, but uh
part so we get my brothers those or out.

Speaker 5 (01:05:00):
Now, let's talk a little bit about the National Football League.
And you covered Kansas City a long time before you
covered Dallas. And when you think about the Chiefs now
hosting the Lions, it used to be that that was
a game you would almost automatically chalk up as an

(01:05:22):
l in Arrowhead. Lions are pretty confident they're going to
go in there and they're gonna do the same thing
they did in Baltimore.

Speaker 6 (01:05:29):
And for every reason. I mean right now, Lion's the
best team football. They've got to go off and defensively.
Other teams are still struggling. Baltimore is out of the mix,
Kansas City could be out of the mix. You know
the Chistal Powers, you know Buffalo losing the Patriots last year.
There are no great teams. I think the only thing

(01:05:50):
close to the great team is Detroit. The Eagles, you
know last week lose at home. Right you know, the
super Bowl I'd love to see is Detroit and Buffalo. Yeah,
there's a good chance that happens, But there's a lot
of football to play in between them. But the Lions
right now on the best team in football, they can
stay healthy. I like their chances of he get given

(01:06:13):
the top seed and going to the Super Bowl.

Speaker 5 (01:06:17):
Rick, what happened to the team that one month ago
lost in Green Bay and looked so bad doing it?

Speaker 6 (01:06:27):
The game has changed when I covered back when I
covered the change one year, they played sixcess exhibition games
and then they played four and basically you used the
preseason to get the shafe for the regular season. Then
Lombardi always played to win. He won better than seventy

(01:06:50):
percent of his career NFL games, and he had a
higher winning percentage in the preseason. His belief was winning,
breeds winning. But now with the salary camp, teams are
paranoid to play their starting players. In twenty twenty one,
the Rams didn't play a starter in the preseason and

(01:07:11):
they want to win the Super Bowl. So these players
are not ready for the speed and physicality of the
ever football. There's no hitting in training camp anymore. They
don't play in the preseason. Their bodies are not ready.
So that first game for the Lions that essentially was
a preseason game, their starters are on the field and

(01:07:35):
adapting to the speed and physicality of the game. I
think that was kind of a way up call for him.
They'd been more like the Detroit team than I had
come to expect in these last four games. But it's
hard to get engaged, and because no team is ready,
they're not ready for the type of the caliber play

(01:07:58):
that comes. There's a difference between playing in August and
playing I think that that's what bit the Lions in
the rear that opening night.

Speaker 5 (01:08:06):
We're talking with Rick Goslin, spartan Hall of Fame writer
for many decades and author. We'll talk more about that
in just a couple of minutes. But Rick, the Lions
offensive line, I think it is not quite as good
this year, maybe significantly less without Frank Ragnow and some

(01:08:30):
of the other questions up front, Taylor Decker, it seems
to be hurt a lot. But if you can't force
Jared Ought to be uncomfortable, if you can't get him
out of his rhythm, how do you stop this Lion's offense?

Speaker 6 (01:08:46):
Such question unless they stop themselves. And Golf is that
guy who's cone to the big interception games. Yeah, imposted fumbles,
but no, the deal is with the starry CAF you're
not going to have the offensive line went the Hogs
in the in the eighties, in the Dallas line in
the nineties. You can't pay all your best players. But

(01:09:08):
the Lions have sucking enough high draft picks into the line.
Yes that they're they're they had the best line of football,
you know, and them are the Eagles. Uh And Eagles
haven't been the same without Kelsey the Lions now, but
they've got enough pieces in place they can. They have
kept golf comfortable and they you know, and the fact

(01:09:30):
they've got a running game, you know, also helps to
keep golf comfortable because you can't just line up and
play the pass kind of just a line up and
attack the quarterback. You got to play the run too.
And if you want to just attack golf, they'll run
for two hundred yards against you. This is a complete offense,
and they still have the gimmicks, you know. The Montgomery
touched on pass last week proves that there wasn't all

(01:09:50):
Ben Johnson in the last last few years. This is
this is a very very good football team.

Speaker 8 (01:09:58):
Now.

Speaker 6 (01:09:58):
I think the window could be they should have gone
to the Super Bowl two years ago. They could have
gone last year. And this is what's happened to the
to the Chiefs. I think their window was closing. You know,
they still have the great quarterback, but it's tough. It's
tough to when you when you've wanted a few times,
you know, the Cowboys as great as they were, you know,

(01:10:19):
one to three in a span of four years, and
having back the Super Bowl sents. It's tough once you
when you start winning, people start taking your players and
you start you're you're paying your your elite guys top money.
You can't keep the worker bees, the blue collar guys
in the draft right right right, And that's that's one

(01:10:42):
of the issues. So you know, Detroit's got a window here.
I think this year, maybe next year, they got to
win it. At some point they gotta win it. They've
been good enough the last two years and didn't win it.
So I think this is I think people are gonna
be this is the season. If you're gonna win it,
win it this year. And I think the same thing
is going on in Buoklow. They saying that about Josh Allen.
You've been close this year, your year, you shouldn't be

(01:11:04):
the super Bowl team. Get I think yeah, I'd love
to see a destruit bulb of Super Bowl. What the states?
Who could be higher for both franchises?

Speaker 5 (01:11:12):
Oh yeah, yeah, that would be fantastic.

Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
Rick.

Speaker 5 (01:11:16):
When we talk about building franchises, super Bowl worthy franchises,
and no one knows more about this than you do,
I always say that you have to hit on a
player or two that's drafted lower than they should have been.
You think about it, Travis Kelcey or an Amen Ross,
Saint Brown And a lot of times we find general

(01:11:39):
manager takes a chance, believes in somebody and moves up
to get them, the way the Chiefs did to get
Patrick Mahomes. Had plenty of chances to get Patrick Mahomes.
Same thing with the Lions. They believed in Jamier Gibbs
and they said we're going to get our guy and

(01:12:02):
we're going to be laughing at everybody else and they
were right. Now, a lot of times gms are wrong
about that, but the ones that are right usually have
a lot of ws.

Speaker 6 (01:12:13):
But again, he was a high of his first front pick, right, Yes, yeah,
but the guy agreed. But it's hard. I don't think
it's hard. But when you talk about guys who's taking
the top fifty of the drafts. Those are blue chip players.
Gives us the blue chip player. I've always felt the

(01:12:33):
championships are won from rounds four to seven. Anybody can
draft in the first three rounds. Those are all the
blue chappers, all the All Americans. It's when you you know,
you get in the later rounds and you eye players.
I've always said Ron Wolfe was the greatest second day
draft in history. I mean wrong four to seven. He
was draft slew of Co bowlers, Mark Brunell and Matt

(01:12:55):
Hasselback and Tied Depper. There are books quarterbacks who he
traded for for a great return. Donald Dryver, the all
time league receiver backer history, is a seventh round draft pick.
Adam Timmerman, Pro Bowl guard, six on draft picks, Travis
Jervey a Pro Bowl special team that was a six hundred.
That's where you get the thing. But I was for

(01:13:16):
a championship team. Back when the Sarah Cap came to
place in nineteen ninety four, I wrote that there were
five positions they're going to get paid money. Quarterback, edge rusher,
left tackle, running back, and quarterback. Now it's changed. The
running back position is now wide receiver. If you have

(01:13:39):
five Blue Chippers there, you are a Super Bowl contending team. Yeah,
and I think the Lions are close.

Speaker 5 (01:13:46):
Yeah, you can fill in around them.

Speaker 6 (01:13:49):
Yeah, you've got to have those guys. If they're going
to make the money, they got to be good enough
to win a championship. And Golf, I think Golf is
becoming a franchise quarterback. I never thought he was. I
thought he was on the very good level. But what
he's done statistically in the last couple of years with
the Lions, but he's he's he's in the franchise caliber now.

Speaker 5 (01:14:11):
Got yeah, yeahol yeah, yeah, a lot of it. I
think we see is the fit too with some of
these quarterbacks. And the Lions had invested enough draft capital
in the offensive line that they thought they could keep
Jared Goff upright if he was running for his life
all the time. He's an average quarterback or maybe not

(01:14:33):
even that.

Speaker 6 (01:14:35):
Yeah. What saved them was that that the trade all
the draft picks they got uh in exchange for matche Stafford.
I mean, clearly the Rams were dumping Golf and Golf
I thought nextly, Golf was maybe a two year guy. Yeah,
have quarterbacks for two years and then you know, get
a better guy in there, but but one they hit

(01:14:55):
on him to They hit on all those draft picks.
That's what the Cowboys do with the hersel Upon deal.
That's they became a champion. They got that Ahearschel Walker deal,
and the Lion dip front office there is. They're as
good as goods right now as far as drafting, as
far as player procurement. And that's why the Matthew Stafford
deal should put a super Bowl ring on the finger's

(01:15:16):
a lot of line line players.

Speaker 5 (01:15:19):
It's interesting you mentioned that Cowboys Vikings trade because that
one did not work out for Minnesota, at least not
in terms of a championship, and the Stafford trade could
be one of the few win win trades because the
Rams did get their championship that they wanted, and now

(01:15:40):
it might be the Lions turn.

Speaker 6 (01:15:43):
That's funny. I was many years ago when I was
doing the NFL that morning us that what are on
my training camp tour? And I went to about generally
fifteen to seventeen team this summer, and I asked everybody
what would they rather have a season like the Rams
where they wanted to all in nineteen ninety nine, But
were the worst team in football for the entire decade

(01:16:05):
or a decade, like the Chiefs, who were competitive throughout
the nineteen ninety decade. I think won the most games
of the decade, but never got the Super Bowl much
just win it. To a man, the players and coaches
said they'd rather have the Chiefs decade because you're always
in it and you may hit it, but to a man,
and the owners all wanted the trophy. They all want

(01:16:27):
to get Let me win it one time, just that
one time.

Speaker 2 (01:16:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:16:31):
But coaches and players who are in that every day
in the daily grind, the monthly grind, the safe on grind,
they just want to have a chance. And if you
play ten years like the nineties Chiefs and you're in
the playoffs there every year, you your top seed in
your win division titles, you got a chance.

Speaker 5 (01:16:50):
What do you think fans would only have Rick? Would
would they rather have that one moment?

Speaker 6 (01:16:55):
They want to rink I think they want to rink them.
They want to rink the one time they can say
one memory, we're the champions. Yeah. You look at the
eighty four Tigers. We're still living off that we won
it eighty four. Yeah, Yeah, it's just once in your
life you can say you were the best. And I
think most fan basely would say, just just give me

(01:17:15):
the one ring.

Speaker 5 (01:17:17):
Well, the Lions fans can do that if they were
round in nineteen fifty seven.

Speaker 6 (01:17:22):
Like you were.

Speaker 5 (01:17:23):
Well, that's right, exactly exactly. Hey, I want to give
you a chance to talk about a book, and I
read an excerpt. I haven't seen them yet. I don't
actually have a copy in front of me, but the
book you did on the Chiefs going back to that,
maybe history has forgotten to some degree, but what a

(01:17:44):
fascinating group and they did a lot for what we
have in pro football today.

Speaker 6 (01:17:51):
It was a great team that no one knew because
they played in AFL. They won the most games and
most championships of any team in AFO has. They put
together a defense in nineteen sixty nine that was good
as any in football. There are only two defense in
history with six Hall of famers, the sixties Packers in

(01:18:13):
the sixties Chiefs. Wow, that's how good they were. They
had six Hall of famers A David, They had a
Hall of Fame quarterback. But I when I cover the
she's back in seventy seventy to eighty nine.

Speaker 2 (01:18:26):
The team was.

Speaker 6 (01:18:27):
Awful, but I got to know everybody. I got to
know Lamar Hunt and Len Dawston, Otis Taylor and Buck
Buchanan and Jennimer. And I was always intrigued as a
kid going up Detroit with Super Bowl one the Packers
playing jee So I always talked to those guys about that.
And then when I became the NFL writer the Morning
News and I traveled, I talked a lot about Packers

(01:18:49):
and Jim Taylor and Jerry Kramer, Willie Wood, Willie Davis
about that game. And I wrote this book about the
nineteen the AFL A Chiefs. Seventy five percent of it
was that first Super Bowl leading up to it. The
strategy involved the halftime of jobs and how the Chiefs
were absolutely embarrassed they had a chance to take the

(01:19:13):
lead start of the second half to an interception, got
behind and got thlown out thirty five tens. And the
last twenty five percent of the book was a three
game revenge tour. First time they played an NFL team
access Super Bowl sixty seven, they played the Bearers in
a preseason they won sixty six to twenty four, and
they played the Vikings in the Sports Super Bowl to

(01:19:34):
beat the Vikings that year, and finally in nineteen seventy
they got a preseason game with the Cowboys, who they
went head to head with in the early sixties for Dallas.
Dallas Texan versus Dallas Cowboys. Texans won the title and
they had to leave town because Dallas would not support
either team. The Texans always wanted to play the Cowboys

(01:19:56):
never got the chance. Finally, finally, in ninety seven, they
schedule an exhibition game Chiefs versus Cowboys at the Cotton
Bowl in front of eighty thousand. Neither team could draw
twenty thousand when they played there. Now they're playing before
eighty thousand people. There were still click starters from the

(01:20:16):
Texans on the Chiefs, I think four starters from the Cowboys,
the sixty two Cowboys on the seventy Cowboys. It was
the only time in history the Cowboys had ever been
shut out in the Cotton Bowl preseason, regular season, the
postseason three game revenge.

Speaker 5 (01:20:35):
I loved what I read, Rick, and tell our listeners
again the best way to get a copy fill us
in on that. And I'm sure a lot of our
fans are football historians. They're going to want to get
their hands on it.

Speaker 6 (01:20:49):
Sure, it's published by University of Nebraska Press and they
have a website, and that's probably the best way to go.
But you get the book right away. You can get
it on Amazon, but it won't be vaible until November
if you order see that. But the ever seny of
the rest of press. It's probably the best way to
google that up. You can get an order form there.

(01:21:09):
It was a fun book to write. Most of the
interviews were from thirty and forty years ago, right, Most
of the peaks that I quoted have since passed away.
I get a whole chapter in about the merger and
the only guy I talked to is Eelle Davis, and
Alice of course has passed away. But fun book to write.
I think if you find a very fun book.

Speaker 5 (01:21:27):
To read too, and give us the title one more time.
It's the team that history.

Speaker 6 (01:21:33):
Forgot, right, the team that history forgot the nineteen sixties
Kansas City Chiefs.

Speaker 5 (01:21:38):
Fantastic, Rick, Thanks for your time. Sure, we'll talk to
you again during the NFL season, and I look forward
to seeing you when you get here to mon Arena.

Speaker 6 (01:21:48):
I hope, so hope sometime in January.

Speaker 5 (01:21:50):
That'd be great. Rick Goslin, pro football historian and Hall
of Fame writer, Kansas City, and of course many many
years with Dallas Morning News and wire services before that. Oh,
we will be right back and much more conversation. We're

(01:22:11):
going to talk about baseball, even though the Tigers are
off today. Got a little game tomorrow, Rob, a little
game five action for you. Be right back on a
drive with Jack.

Speaker 7 (01:22:23):
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Speaker 5 (01:22:54):
Jack kamblin here with my good friend Matt Sloan a
graph of vocamists. Big summer here, Matt.

Speaker 6 (01:22:58):
That's right, Jack.

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(01:24:50):
to get your crew game ready. Open at ten am
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One North Kitchen and Bar. We're great food and Spartan spirit.
Callide Gogree welcome back. It is a drive with Jack

(01:25:16):
the Spotlight, a radio network Jack coupling here with my producer,
Boston Rob getting ready for a homecoming weekend. That's the
start of MSU Hockey's regular season tonight against New Hampshire
seven o'clock puck drop at mont Ice Arena. Spartans with
designs on a national championship want to welcome in our

(01:25:36):
next guest and he is a two time national champion
nineteen sixty five and nineteen sixty six, a two time
All America running back for Michigan State, and a pride
of Cleveland, Ohio, the one that got away from Woody Hayes,
also one of the great hurdlers in Big Ten history.
Want to welcome in our buddy, Clinton Jones.

Speaker 2 (01:25:58):
Clinton, How are you, Zack? I'm doing fantastic. How are
you doing, my friend?

Speaker 5 (01:26:03):
I am doing great. And when you think about this
weekend for the Spartans u c l A coming in,
you are in southern California, so you know a lot
about what's going on out there. How shocked were you
that the oh to four Bruins would handle Penn State
the way they did last weekend?

Speaker 2 (01:26:25):
Well, that's that's pretty amazing. I mean, these are different times,
you know, I'm amazed at even the Big ten USC
and the Big Ten. That's amazing, right, you know, it's
a difference than it was like in nineteen, you know,
when we played. But you know, I think it should
be a very interesting.

Speaker 6 (01:26:48):
You're there, okay, Yeah, I'm there, okay, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:26:52):
Yeah, So yeah, so it's gonna be it's gonna be interesting. Actually,
you know the game has changed so much day. Yeah,
it's a different game than when we played them. We
probably we were the running area. Now this is the
passing and receiving area. You know, this would be a
great time for Jean Washington.

Speaker 5 (01:27:13):
Huh, yeah, he would love that absolutely. And so with
Steve Judey and Jimmy Ray, say, let me throw the
ball a little bit back to your junior year nineteen
sixty five and people remember that defense that held Ohio

(01:27:34):
State to minus twenty two yards rushing, Michigan to minus
fifty one yards rushing, and then in that matchup of
top five teams at Notre Dame, held the Irish to
minus twelve yards rushing. But you also had two time
All Americans across the offense with you and Jean and

(01:27:55):
Bob Apisa. Just a tremendous all round football team as
reflected by the NFL Draft heading into the sixty seven
Pro football season. But I want to get back to
I want to go back to those games against u c.
L A, starting with one in East Lansing at the
beginning of the season, and it wasn't a blowout, but

(01:28:17):
it was a pretty convincing double digit Michigan State win.
What do you remember about that game and facing those
UCLA Bruins.

Speaker 2 (01:28:27):
Well, I'll be very honest, I don't remember a lot
about that game. Is said that, like, we had the
attitude that we're not going to be defeated. Yeah, yeah,
that was our attitude, so like, but in terms of
like the specific things that happened in the field, I
remember a lot about that. So that actually that was

(01:28:47):
quite a long time ago. Yeah, fifty yeah, you know, yeah, yes,
and so but when when I look back on it,
they had really kind of really standing team with him
mil Mill far No far, Gary Beban. You know, they
had they they were they were not a mediocre team.

(01:29:11):
They were the top teams in the country. As a
matter of fact, most of the teams that we played
were top teams in the country.

Speaker 5 (01:29:20):
That's right, they were.

Speaker 2 (01:29:23):
Yeah, none of the teams we played for those two
years were marginal teams.

Speaker 5 (01:29:28):
Right right. It's been bad games against the Rose Bowl
representative from the Pacific Coast, and then also against Penn State,
which at that point wasn't independent. That's a pretty adventurous
non conference schedule. And then, as you say, the goal
was always not to give up a touchdown and more

(01:29:49):
often than not, Michigan State managed to do that. But
then you met u c. L A again in the
Rose Bowl and that one did not go miss in
State's way. Spartans were a heavy favorite, but UCLA jumped
off to a fourteen to nothing lead, Michigan said with
a furious finish. Didn't convert on two point conversions. But

(01:30:14):
when you think about there was a punt fumble at
the five yard line that gave them a very short field,
and then they had a kick that was recovered and
those two scoring drives they didn't go fifty yards.

Speaker 2 (01:30:32):
Yeah, you know that's an amazing thing about football. Well,
no matter how you try to analyze to think about it,
you never know how the game's gonna go because it
depends on the life condition and the circumstances in the moment,
and they can change. I mean this Kansas City game
was last week just sounds similar. Yeah, they gave up too,

(01:30:56):
they made you can't make airs to the crucial moment.

Speaker 5 (01:31:00):
Yeah. Crazy, the way that that happened with the drop kickoff,
the two guys trying to catch it in the wind
at the same time, and then the and that guy
ran right by the wedge. Uh shook his hand when
he went by. Next thing, touchdown.

Speaker 2 (01:31:20):
You know, it's just just it's it can change in
a hurry. That's what to me. Football just so much
like life is. So you know, that's a great urn
in the stadium and then we have the great iron
in life. You know, it's the same thing. But that's
what makes football so intriguing. You just never know, you know,
but uh, you know it's it's it's a great it's

(01:31:46):
a great sport. You know, it's it's uh, I think
they I must. I'll tell you. I was thinking about this, Jack.
It's interesting, you know, the most wonderful thing in my
whole career, the all what's that? Then my team went
into the Hall of Fame last year.

Speaker 5 (01:32:04):
About that?

Speaker 2 (01:32:06):
Yes, to me, that's the biggest accomplishment because I could
have done any regardless of my talent. I could have
done anything without my teammates. It's a team sport, yes, yes, everything, yeah, yeah, yeah,
So you know that's what it's all about.

Speaker 5 (01:32:23):
Clinton. You're a philosopher, you're a renaissance man. We always
say that life is a team sport, and if you're
really going to excel, you need to have teamwork and
everything you do you did on those teams, not just
on the field, but the significance of those teams in

(01:32:44):
terms of football integration. What that did at a time
when oh, you played Notre Dame in that famous times Yeah, yeah,
and only had one black player on the field.

Speaker 2 (01:33:01):
You know, you know, I mean, you know what we
did in the time that exists with the Vietnam War
going on, the Common Culture Revolution going on, in the
Civil rights movement going on. Those things were going on,
and people, you know, it was like trying times, not
too different from what's going on right now. Actually, But

(01:33:23):
the thing is we were unified. That is the key.
We were unified as a country, even though we are diverse,
and you know, we had everything that I just mentioned
going on, but on campus, you know, we had so
many other people, administrators, professors, students, everybody was unified. We're

(01:33:46):
on the same page. That's kind of phenomenal when you
think we're all on the same page. I mean, the
you know, remember when you had these student nannies before
the game and the barn everybody. You know, you know,
it's a life condition, do you know what I mean?

(01:34:07):
My life condition? Yeah, I think so, Yeah, yeah, people
are expirited, very.

Speaker 5 (01:34:14):
Different here the divided States of America.

Speaker 12 (01:34:21):
Well you said, yeah, Well, I'm I'm.

Speaker 5 (01:34:24):
Standing by it. I'm I'm out there on that one.

Speaker 2 (01:34:29):
Not only.

Speaker 5 (01:34:31):
Not only is Clinton Jones one of the greatest Michigan
State athletes of all time and two sports stand out,
multi time All American, multi time national champion, but how
many years in the medical profession as a chiropractor? How many?
How many years?

Speaker 2 (01:34:50):
Fifty fifty years, fifty amazing fifty years, that's yeah, fifty years.

Speaker 5 (01:35:00):
Number two pick in the NFL draft, right behind Bubba Smith,
picked by the Minnesota Vikings. And there will never never
be another NFL draft where one school has picks one, two, five,
and eight as Michigan State did.

Speaker 2 (01:35:18):
That's that's a phenomena. It really is, it really is.
You know, that's like to be a part of that, Jack,
you know, uh am I impossible dreams. Actually, I never
imagine that. I don't think anybody could that that happened
like the way that they did, you know. And so
that's a that's a legacy that will go down in

(01:35:41):
history as one of the greatest eras of all time
in foot and college football, you know, and Uh, and
we need to draw energy from that, you know, as
much energy as we can to bring about, you know,
the changes needed today. Uh, not only in sports, in
the game. But it isn't nice, it's nice as well.

Speaker 5 (01:36:05):
I have lived about as rich a life as anyone
I know, not just from tremendous athletic success, chance of
playing a super Bowl, all of those things, the national
championship games, but then besides all the work out in
Southern California, in medicine, the philosophy, the meditation. You're a

(01:36:27):
constant learner. You are growing every day and the time
you have spent at conferences, and that's where you're the one.
You're the first person who ever mentioned the name Kevin
Guskowitz to me.

Speaker 8 (01:36:44):
Yes, my friend, you knew him from North.

Speaker 5 (01:36:49):
Carolina, And do you remember what you told me about
him and that he would be the answer for Michigan State.
That was a pretty good scouting report.

Speaker 2 (01:37:00):
Oh. I just felt that that he uh, you know,
when I met him, I felt that he would be
the answer, that he was his own person, and that
he had a vision and imagination and uh, and he
had you know, it's just you know, how you have
a gut feeling when you meet somebody. Yeah, that said,
this is the person. That's how I felt, you know

(01:37:22):
when I when I interacted with him, and you know
that was in November twenty twenty three, you know, and
the relationship has grown since then, you know, the meeting
and his family and friends and and and his assistant Candice,
you know, uh, you know, she made all that happen.

(01:37:43):
You know, nothing happened by accident in the whole universe.
Everything happened by a reason. Everything. There's no accident on things,
and so that means, you know, it's not my time.
I'm my belief, but I've come to understand and really
appreciate and understand and quantum physics validacent. You know, there's

(01:38:07):
no accidents. Things happened for a reason. So you know,
MSU is on this way regardless of what is appearing
right now, to regaining a new era. It really is.
But you know, just like to care any disease, you know,
he has to go to a c interfuge to get

(01:38:29):
out all the impurities. Yeah, so you know, so that's
what we're kind of going through right now. But it's
going to change that the sun always rises no matter.

Speaker 5 (01:38:39):
What Clinton Jones is so positive. Rob. Sometimes when I'm
starting to question things, if I got a chance to
talk to Clint for fifteen minutes, I feel better for
the next fifteen hours, no question about it.

Speaker 2 (01:38:56):
You feel me, Jack, I love you, my brother, you
always enjoy way. Coming on your program is just encouraging
to me, you know, And I tell you I'm excited
about our future. I really am. I really am. I
don't care what's going on in the country. As a
matter of fact, from a comedic standpoint, it's really kind

(01:39:19):
of hilarious and sad at the same time. But you know,
but we're going to get through this. You know, even
this will change.

Speaker 5 (01:39:27):
You mentioned unity and team spirit, and if you don't
have a team within, then you have division and then
you have destruction. But what tells you plant that we're
going to come out of this, Uh, there will be
an end, a light at the end of the tunnel,
and that at some point we'll be working together again,

(01:39:51):
all of us.

Speaker 2 (01:39:54):
As because of all the suffering and disharming and everything
is going on. It never it's never one sided. It
always changes. Everything. Change is an every aspect of life period.
It's always changes, and we're going through this self to
really for people to awaken to the infinite possibilities that

(01:40:18):
they have within us. We really do. But you know,
life is kind of paradox. You know, like people say,
I don't believe that we're ever going to get out
of this mess. Well it's a paradox. They believe. They
believe that. So not they don't have beliefs, but they
have beliefs in the negative president and positive. So we

(01:40:39):
have to change the way we look at things. You know,
our beliefs determine everything. You know, if we think we
can't we think that we can't do something, we're not
come baby to do it. But once we change our determination,
every cell in our body changes with that determination. Period.
That's how life bunks. So the people in America have

(01:41:03):
to wake up. People at Michigan State, they have to
wake up. They're not If Clinton Jones, looking for the savior,
have to look within myself and be the person that
I want to see in my environment, then the environment
will respond differently. That's how. That's how, that's the reality
of it. I can change, but I don't change.

Speaker 5 (01:41:27):
Rob We talked about the changes and over the sixty
years since Clint was wearing number twenty six and scoring touchdowns.
Here about the thirty two to seven win over Ohio
State and what he is still trying to figure out
how come he didn't land Clint shows But when I
think about nineteen sixty six, Rob, just just run this

(01:41:49):
one through your imagination. The idea that Duffie already would
have two black captains was incomprehensible. And here come George
Webster and Clint Jones out to the center of the field,
and people said, how can that be? How can this

(01:42:12):
team be so good? And and look at them and
there's no segregation. It's black and white together.

Speaker 2 (01:42:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:42:22):
It was such a strange concept that a lot of
people couldn't wrap their minds around it.

Speaker 2 (01:42:28):
No, no, they could. Well, inter connection, humanity really is
one family, you know, when we when we look at flowers,
all kinds of flowers, tapes and smells and scents and things,
you know, but they're flowers. You know, they have you know,
we create values. So you know, we have to work

(01:42:48):
on making this a world of worse for everybody. And
that may seem like a pipe dream, but it's not.
We have to go through all of this otherwise, you know,
we want we want to know they're different. Can you
imagine the football game with no existence a football game?

Speaker 5 (01:43:07):
No, no, no, it wouldn't. It would look like some
Alabama games I think I saw not too long ago.
But yeah, yeah, when you talk about flowers, I'm just
glad that your group, those who are still with us,
got their flowers.

Speaker 2 (01:43:29):
Yes, I am too.

Speaker 5 (01:43:31):
Being the first Michigan State team, not the team that
won twenty eight straight games, not the Magic Johnson led
national champions that beat undefeated Indiana State Larry Bird, not
any of the other great Michigan State teams in all
the sports. The first group recognized for that from a

(01:43:52):
team standpoint was yours and appropriately so. And I think
I saw a little glint in the eyes of an
irishman overhead.

Speaker 2 (01:44:03):
Mm hmm, yes, yes, Duffy. Duffy my mentor and next
forget when I first met him, and incidentally, John McVeigh
and Hank Will recruited me, and it took me there.

(01:44:24):
It was at nighttime and I went to see Duffy.
If I saw him the next day, I wouldn't have
recognize him. But I just asked him. I said, sir,
I just want a chance. It's an opportunity, and he said,
he said, I'll give you that opportunity and the rest
is history. Jack.

Speaker 5 (01:44:42):
Well, opportunity doesn't knock all the time, but when it does,
someone like Clint Jones as I was there to blow
the door off the hinges. Uh, Clint, thanks so much
for joining us. I hope we get to see you soon.
I hope we can get you up here for another game,
or we'll get to see you back in LA.

Speaker 2 (01:45:02):
Thank you, Jake so much. Thank you and your whole crew.
I appreciate you a treasure you and you don't know
how much.

Speaker 5 (01:45:12):
The great Clinton Jones. Okay, I believe we have Rich
Kincaid with us. Is he still on the line?

Speaker 12 (01:45:19):
Wrap he he's good to go. Yeah, I'm right here.

Speaker 5 (01:45:24):
Okay, okay, good, good, good. I heard a disconnect sound.
I wasn't sure which line that was. All right. I
want to welcome in our Detroit correspondents, and we're not
going to spend a lot of time on the Lions
in Kansas City because there's another Detroit team that's still playing.
A lot of people weren't sure that would be the case.

(01:45:45):
In the fifth inning yesterday when the Tigers were coming
to bat, and it was three nothing Seattle, and that
would have closed it out. A lot of people were
moaning and there were audible booze at Comerica Park. What happened?
How did the Tigers find nine runs all of a sudden, Rich.

Speaker 12 (01:46:08):
I'll tell you what. We started hitting the baseball. I mean,
it's it's just that simple, and all of a sudden,
you know, the the the experts kept saying that when
the Tigers are gonna have to get extir bates, get
extra base hits, and get some home runs, and they
finally got around to doing that, and now right it's

(01:46:28):
you got the best picture of baseball going for you tomorrow,
and con Seattle beat them four times in a year.
Mostly I don't know, I don't think they can.

Speaker 5 (01:46:36):
Yeah. Yeah, people will look back on this season as
being maybe the most bizarre in Detroit history. You have
the twenty five game lead and then blow it and
go seven and seventeen in September and lose the division

(01:46:57):
by a game, and then come back and beat that
same team in the wild card rounds and then look
like they were on life support yesterday and then find
this surge an eighteen run pace they had hit that
way for the whole game. And now to go back,

(01:47:17):
you know this is something you couldn't write this. I
wouldn't send this into a publisher and say I've got
a idea for a story.

Speaker 12 (01:47:25):
Well, I'll tell you what. When you talk about great
Tigers seasons, maybe you go back to nineteen sixty seven
when I had that tremendous four way Pennant Race that
went right down to the final weekend. In fact that
Tigers had to play doubleheaders on Saturday and Sunday that
last weekend and game short in their pursuit of the
Boston Red Sox. In that one, that was a terrific

(01:47:48):
story in and of itself, but in terms of agony
and ecstasy, no, nothing comes close to this twenty twenty five.

Speaker 5 (01:47:56):
You mentioned nineteen sixty seven, and there were two other
events there besides that Pennant Race, and to think that
you could have four teams the final day of the season,
as you mentioned, and Tiger's that doubleheader with the Angels
losing it. But there was the riot in Detroit and

(01:48:20):
for a lot of people that was a life shaping event.
Certainly changed a lot of things about southeastern Michigan to
this day, there was also a long, long newspaper strike.
And in those days, Rich it wasn't a matter of
going to your cell phone or flipping on ESPN. People

(01:48:44):
depended on the newspaper, on the Detroit on the Detroit
Free Press, before that, the Detroit Times. That's where you
got your news was from the daily newspaper, and not to.

Speaker 12 (01:48:56):
Happen, everybody needed it. Everybody needed to read Jerry Green,
They needed to read Joe Falls or Pee Waldmire or
any of you know, the pantheon of great Collins. And
those guys were shut up in sixty seven and well
into sixty eight. And it turns out we were talking
at these last few days during the playoffs about pressure
on athletes, and you'll never get an athlete to admit

(01:49:18):
to being under pressure, but they all said it was
a relief not to have to deal with newspaper people.
So maybe there is something to the pressure. After all,
you can't have it both ways. I don't suspect, but yeah, yeah, good.
You know that riot in sixty seven, My sister and
I got stuck at Tiger Stadium that day. The Tigers
was playing a double letter against the unique the New

(01:49:39):
York Yankees.

Speaker 2 (01:49:40):
Yet and I.

Speaker 12 (01:49:41):
Remember I was like twelve, Oh yeah, it was twelve.
But remember seeing the smoke rising over the left field
stands and you're wondering what's going on. Tons of people
had their radios at the game to listen to Ernie,
but they never made any announcement over the pieces and
or on those radios about the riot because they thought
given publicity would make the situation worse. So they kept

(01:50:03):
the lid on things. And in the eighth inning of
the second game, we had gone down there by bus,
and the eighth inning of the second game they announced
on the PA the buses woulden would not be running,
and we were thrown into a bit of a situation,
if you will, But you know, we we got out
of it. But oh my god, Bill Bonce, if I
can digress just a moment, so it'd be great. Detroit newscaster,
famous to Croit newscast Bill Bonce told me one time

(01:50:25):
that the riots started because the Blind Pig, where all
the troubles began down on twel streets, did not did
not pay its protection money to the cops. You know,
And I wanted, I wanted to write a book. I
wanted to write a book with Bill box, because you're
talking about the seminal moment in Detroit history. And I
just thought that'd be a great story to you know,
and I thought the book would have done well at

(01:50:47):
least at least in the state of Michigan, especially in
southwest Detroit. But it never did quite pan out. And
then Bill died and I was I'd never got a
chance to tell the story.

Speaker 2 (01:50:57):
I regret that.

Speaker 5 (01:51:00):
Two years ago, I was coming back from Tiger's game
and it was an afternoon game, and I said, you
know what I'm going to do. I'm going to go
to twelfth Street, Rosa Parks Boulevard there and I'm going
to spend two hours out here and I'm going to
walk it and I'm going to see, you know, it's

(01:51:21):
changed a lot, but I'm going to talk to people
and find out what they knew. And some knew nothing,
you know, just what the legend and others. So, you know,
my aunt or my uncle or my brother or I
was there and I could have stayed there all day
listening to that historical narrative about one of the most

(01:51:45):
important events in the history of state of Michigan.

Speaker 12 (01:51:48):
Oh, no question about it. Yeah, Well that's a you're
talking about an event that sets the toy back fifty years. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
everybody talks about it's coming back now, but it is
only now that the toy it has come back. And
oh yeah for those of us who grew up in
the area, I mean it was a generational shock.

Speaker 5 (01:52:08):
Yeah. People have no idea that in the nineteen sixties
the five dominant cities in the United States. You talk
about Detroit and New York and Chicago and Philadelphia and
Detroit those were the five, not Houston, not Atlanta. You know,

(01:52:29):
it has changed so much, And you're right, the stigma,
the business that was lost, the migration of people, the
flight to the suburbs, everything changed because of what happened
in nineteen sixty seven. But yeah, wanted to talk to
you just for a minute about football here and the

(01:52:53):
Lions on the road Kansas City. How important a game
is this in the span of a seventeen game season.

Speaker 12 (01:53:01):
Oh, they all count one seventeenth. I mean, some would say,
but this is an important game because again, it's an
opportunity to send that message. I don't know if Cryton
needs to re establish its reputation any longer. After the
Drakul in Week one. You know they'refore and one at
this point looking pretty solid. But no, for all the
reasons there you have five game win streak sounds off,

(01:53:22):
and I five and one sounds off. And if for
all the reasons this is it's a huge game, cool lines.
And I like their chances going into this one. I
like the fact that they've had a little bit more rest,
and I don't think they're what it's banged up to
Kansas City. Altho, you got to watch that the Troy
secondary and we will do that over the course of
the week.

Speaker 5 (01:53:38):
Yeah, and Detroit has beaten Kansas City and won in
Kansas City. But the idea, yeah, that you're going up
against the dominant team of the decade and if you
get them again, that's got to give you confidence that
should you meet Kansas City or a team of that caliber,
maybe it's Buffalo, maybe it's the Eagles later in the

(01:53:58):
season in the playoffs, not in the regular season, that
you would have a great opportunity to get to the
super Bowl and even win it. I want to talk
to you a little bit about this weekend before Sunday,
and Sunday is going to be a crazy day here.
If the Tigers can win tomorrow in Seattle. We're going

(01:54:19):
to have the Tigers and the Lions both going in
Marquee Attractions on Sunday. But you've got a game tonight,
right or tomorrow night?

Speaker 12 (01:54:30):
Got a game tonight? It's while we're here at the
Little Season's Arena. Right now, the Red Rings are opening.
They're a twenty five twenty six campaign against the Montreal Canadians.
They're kicking off their sent The Canadian are in town.
They're kicking off their centennial season, which I don't agree with.
First game in Red Wings since we have played in
September of nineteen twenty six. I say that ultra one

(01:54:50):
hundred till September of nineteen twenty six. But this is
the one hot season of Red Wings hockey. I like
to think about the fact that when when I was
the run, Wings were only thirty two and now there
are one hundred.

Speaker 5 (01:55:07):
Well, what kind of season is this going to be?
Is this going to be the season we've been waiting for?
Or is this going to be you know what another
state meant that Steve Eiserman as a much better player
than an executive.

Speaker 12 (01:55:19):
Well, I'll tell you what I think. This is a
year where he's got to answer that to a question.
I think it's in or he's gone. I think we've
reached that point. It all depends that, not all of it.
But pitching is to goaltending is to hockey, with pitching
is to baseball. The goaltender of the Detroit Red Wings
is a guy named John and Gibson, acquired in a
trade over the summer. If he performs the Stevie's gonna

(01:55:40):
look pretty good. If he don't, somebody's gonna get shown
the door. I think I one hates to be blunt,
but it's opening none. And I think that's the situation
that confirms the Red Wings.

Speaker 2 (01:55:50):
You know.

Speaker 12 (01:55:50):
The funny thing is, though the NFL Aisamund's picture on
this scoreboard at some point tonight, it introducts to he's
going to get cheered. He's going to get cheered loudly.
How many gms have missed the playoffs for seven years
in a row get cheered loudly. So, I mean, he's
still a very.

Speaker 5 (01:56:06):
Popular, biggest job and still be chaired, you know what.

Speaker 12 (01:56:09):
That's an interest he might well be. He might well be.
So I don't know. I'm one of those guys. You know,
I've known STEVIEE since he showed up in Detroit of
an eighteen year old in nineteen eighty one. I like
the guy, pulled for the guy. But yeah, it's it's
time for results.

Speaker 2 (01:56:23):
Enough of this.

Speaker 12 (01:56:23):
Oh wait, we missed the playoffs by a point, and
we missed the playoffs by by three points. This team's
got to get itself together and get into that post season.
And there's a lot of new names.

Speaker 5 (01:56:32):
On this roster, right right, a lot of young players.

Speaker 12 (01:56:40):
Yeap, have high school game tomorrow. Yeah, it'll be fun.

Speaker 8 (01:56:44):
And keep.

Speaker 12 (01:56:46):
Exactly keep an eye out on those Farms and Falcons.

Speaker 6 (01:56:48):
They're five and one.

Speaker 12 (01:56:50):
They're playing with some real good football.

Speaker 5 (01:56:53):
I will see you Saturday at Spartan Stadium, correct.

Speaker 12 (01:56:58):
Correct, and then I'll turn around from that get back
down a little season for the Dwicks. Maypleas came on
Saturday night. I'm looking forward to a a busy couple
three days coming up here. Yeah, but it's all fun
of the fun, isn't it, Jack Yep, Yes.

Speaker 5 (01:57:13):
That's right. That's that's why, that's that's why people would
love to have our jobs, even though they wouldn't love
to have our paychecks.

Speaker 12 (01:57:21):
Pretty much, pretty much.

Speaker 5 (01:57:23):
Yeah, yeah, Rich, thanks so much for joining us. Appreciate
you doing double duty the last two days. And I
hope that when we talk Saturday in the box and
then next week on this show we're still talking baseball.

Speaker 12 (01:57:37):
Sounds good. Jack takes care man. Appreciate it.

Speaker 5 (01:57:41):
Rich Kincaid, our Detroit correspondent. I want to thank all
of our guests today, Rob rob Am. I going to
see you very shortly over at mon Arena.

Speaker 12 (01:57:50):
I'll be there.

Speaker 5 (01:57:52):
I want to thank Tony Garcia from the Detroit Free
Press covering the Michigan Wolverines. They are in action at
the La Colise. Tony will be boarding a plane here
tomorrow morning and heading out there for that matchup Wolverines
and the Trojans. Ryan Field, sports director WABC in New York.

(01:58:14):
But you can take the Boy out of Detroit. You
can't take the Detroit out of the Boy, or the
Michigan state for that matter. Ryotfield sitting there cheering as
much as you can in the New York newsroom for
the Tigers. Rick Goslin, Hall of Fame pro football writer
loves college hockey, but just written a great book the

(01:58:37):
team that time forgot Kansas City Chiefs, Clinton Jones, two
time All American, and Rich Kinkaid. Have a great night everyone,