Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
This is it right here.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Combining a team of reporters, columnists and commentators, Are you serious?
Jack Ebling has brought thought provoking discussion.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
What are you doing?
Speaker 3 (00:18):
That's a coaching The same opinion.
Speaker 4 (00:21):
Customer is the one who decides when the future gets here?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Oh no, check the report?
Speaker 4 (00:29):
Are you kidding me?
Speaker 5 (00:31):
Jack?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Games next and overall infotainment.
Speaker 6 (00:34):
I'll think Kim Marva, who is done?
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Grease God to.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Coming at you?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Quiet please, and exactly fifteen seconds we'll be on the air.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Thanks, big fella.
Speaker 5 (00:45):
Don't you ever come back here again?
Speaker 1 (00:47):
No arguments. Those are called ashtans.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
So buckle up.
Speaker 7 (00:50):
You talking to me?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
It's time for the Drive with Jack Ebling.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah, for some reason or another, who signed a little caller.
Great afternoon been Michigan and beyond, and welcome to the
Drive with Jack the Spotlight Radio Network. Jack Ebling here
with my producer today Boston rob sixty two degrees and
mostly sunny here in mid Michigan. Absolutely gorgeous day. Enjoy
(01:19):
these while you can get them. Oh, we have the
baseball playoffs continuing now. The road teams won games one
and two of these championship series. Only three teams have
lost the first two home games and come back and won.
So that means the good things for Seattle and the
(01:40):
Dodgers most likely. But we have a lot of football
to talk about. Basketball too on the horizon at Michigan
State Media Day tomorrow, but most of the attention right
now is focused on football, as it should be in
mid October. And when you look at where Michigan State
is a lot of speculation the future of Jonathan Smith.
(02:06):
Spartans are twenty seven and a half point underdogs twenty
seven and a half at Indiana. That is the largest
negative spread ever against the Hoosiers for the Spartans, and
I think most people would be beyond stunned if Michigan
State came back from Bloomington with the win. Then they
(02:28):
entertain Michigan and then they have four more games in November.
Want to welcome in Steven Brooks twenty four to seven
Sports Spartan tailgate premium site does a great job covering
MSU football and basketball. Steven, I'll cut right to the chase.
How many more games does Jonathan Smith coach at Michigan State.
(02:52):
Is it one more, two more, six more meaning the
end of the season, or more than six.
Speaker 5 (03:02):
I mean, I don't have that answer. I don't know
if anybody does, but my gut is that probably two
and then I think there'll be some real I think
after two is a potential pivot point. I guess is
what we'll say, and then you'd be going, you know,
I don't think it makes sense if you're going to
(03:23):
do it, is it's probably gonna be bad this weekend.
I don't think it makes sense to throw an interim
out there for Michigan unless you kind of want to
absolve everybody from that and just say, hey, this doesn't
really count getting out of you know, kind of throwing
an excuse like over over the top of it. But yeah,
I could see it after these next two, I guess
if these don't go well, but there's all there are.
(03:44):
Also these next two are big opportunities on the other
side of it. I don't think anybody expects them to
go well, but they will be big opportunities nonetheless, to
change the momentum, to change the messaging. If they were
to get one or geez, somehow two in the next
two weeks.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
What's more likely that Michigan State will lose by fifty
three points the way Illinois did against the Hoosiers, and
that this will be the end for Jonathan Smith, maybe
he'll be fired on the tarmac, or that they pull
it together against a Michigan team that has some serious questions.
(04:23):
They did lose to USC by more than Michigan State did,
and back here everything goes right kind of the way
it did last year against Iowa, and Michigan State beats
the Wolverines, which is more likely.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
I mean, I don't I think the first one can
happen and then the second one can. I don't think
there are two different realities necessary. I mean, I think
they can get waxed by Indiana, doesn't necessarily get fired,
and then they could come back, I guess theoretically, and
we'll put it all together and have that day. Yeah,
Michigan doesn't look like the same type of team that
we thought for much of the offseason. Penn State obviously
(05:01):
is not going to be that same sort of challenge
when when they get to that game, so it looks
a little different. I mean, I'm not gonna bet on
either of those. I'm sorry that they win either of
these games. Come out and get that win against Michigan,
but it's it's the more likely I guess, of the two.
Then they somehow compete. I think this weekend at Indiana,
I guess. But yeah, they both. You know, it seems
(05:22):
unlikely that it's gonna turn out that way. I mean,
and in one sense though, you know, not to be
total doom in glue. Like I said, these are two
games that if you win one of them, you will
change the narrative at least for a little bit. I
will be enough to say Smith and these guys' jobs.
I don't know, but they are two big opportunities, and
I do think there are two games that sort of
keep everything in place for a little bit. I mean,
(05:45):
they're two big carrots. You look at what UCLA did
to Penn State and how they all sort of rallied
together for that game. It's kind of sad that we're
comparing Mission State to that. But my point is, when
you're going on the road to face unbeaten number three,
I think that can be a glue that can keep
everybody in line for a little bit longer and say, hey,
let's go give them our best shot. We're back into
(06:06):
a corner. Let's go see what we can do against
these guys. And then Michigan's is a natural there's so
much natural motivation, so much emotion, you don't have to
do a lot to get ready for that. You're going
to want to go play that game regardless. So you've
got two more weeks I think where everyone's going to
be fairly locked in, fairly bought in. But if those
two go bad, what you know, there's these carrots on
(06:26):
the end of the sticks. They go away after these
next two games, and then you might see splintering and
looking out for yourself and opting out. You might see
all those types of things, especially if there's a formal
coaching decision. But I do think that for these two
weeks it kind of helps that while they're in this
turbulent time, you got a big carrot this week to
look at, say hey, everybody, lock in, let's focus up
(06:47):
the thing isn't you know we're not sunk yet. Let's
go try and try and take a bite out of Indiana.
And then Michigan will be a similar deal where people
will still I think, be locked in for the most part,
focused behind the scenes. So I think there's a little
natural glue that keeps us all together for at least
a couple more weeks, even if the performances aren't great.
I think the mentality, the locker room, the spirits, that
(07:07):
type of stuff sort of has some natural forces sort
of keeping them aligned for now, Stephen.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
They say that once the public has made up its
mind and they have either labeled you a saint, then
you have a lot of chips to play. You have
a lot of wiggle room before you fall out of that.
But even harder is when the public has made up
his mind that you don't belong, you can't get it done.
(07:34):
It is very difficult to change minds and reverse that perception.
Let's say Michigan State fools a lot of people and
wins one of these next two games, and then wins
two of the last four. We're talking about at Minnesota
home for Penn State. Very different program than it was
(07:55):
a month ago at Iowa and Maryland and at Ford Field.
Let's say Michigan State can win two of those four
and go three and three the second half of the season,
just as it did the first half, be six and six,
skank into a lower tier bowl and win that game
(08:16):
and be seven and six. Do you think anyone would
change their minds about Jonathan Smith. Would they say this
is terrible, This just means we're going to have more
of this crap. Or would they say, you know what,
this is kind of what happened at Oregon State and
then he took the worst program in the country and
they won twenty five games the next three years. What
(08:38):
do you think the public would do.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
I think it would lead to a few saying Okay,
I'm willing to give him a little more time, but
not enough of a dent to really calm things and
to really cool the temperature. I mean, like we've discussed
so many people. If you look at the pie chart,
a not insignificant section of that guy was out on
him basically the day he got hired. You know, a
(09:02):
decent come out there. Another big chunk was out after
last year and they get smacked by Indiana, smacked by
Ohio State, smacked by Oregon, smacked by Rutgers with a
Bowl game on the line. That was another big chunk
of people that moved out then. And so I just
don't think I really think Jack, to be honest with you,
I mean, they probably have to go five and one
(09:23):
down this the second half. I think to win back
even a decent chunk of people. I really do, because
even if if you get one of these wins, it'll
just be, well, you only did it one time. You know,
look at all the other bad things that have stacked up,
all the other winnable games that were lost. It just
there's so much bad juju on one side of the
equation that it's hard for me to see the equation
(09:45):
balancing out.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
You know.
Speaker 5 (09:47):
And again, Michigan, I don't think it is a you know,
they're not a top tier Michigan team. People would feel good,
they'd love to make fun of Michigan, but it wouldn't
be like, ah, look what we accomplished. It would be
look at you you know, it wouldn't be look at Michigan.
State in is really the big prize, And it's just
a really hard one to try to square right now
in terms of how they're going to get that done
with how Indiana is humming on both sides, their statistical
(10:12):
you know, numbers on both sides that they don't have
a clear and obvious weakness. I mean, they talk about momentum,
They have that to the end degree right now. Belief
they have a coach who's going to want to run
it up and rub it in. You know this, I
just it's really hard to picture any sort of good
vibe coming out of this weekend specifically, and it feels
like the one that they have to have to really
(10:32):
change the narrative because I would give you a little
juice going into Michigan, and yeah, Michigan I think is
a beatable team on your home field. I mean, gosh,
if you were to somehow go to and Oh this week,
maybe that could shift things. But I just think so
much damage has been done. So many folks gave Jon
and Smith a short leash to begin with, which we
discussed I think was pretty unfair in a lot of ways,
quite honestly, but it is where it is. We're here now,
(10:54):
and I mean the UCLA game was the game that
turned me, you know, and I guess I wrote afterwards
like I no longer believe that it's going to work,
you know. And it's a bummer to say on a
lot of different fronts because I think he's a good guy.
I think he's a good coach in a lot of ways.
I have genuine respect for the job he did at
Oregon State, and I think people should too. But like
you said, once the masses have turned, I just don't
(11:16):
think they're going to turn back fair or not, and
I do think there's some unfairness to it, but I
do think the reality is most people are out now,
and in the UCLA game, broke the you know as
the straw that broke the back there. And I can't
blame him. That was a horrible, horrible loss and an
unacceptable result in performance against a team like that for
(11:36):
a staff and his position. So I get it, and yeah,
I just like I said last week, I can't go back.
And I thought if I lost that game, this staff
would sort of be in an irrecoverable position, and yeah,
that's where we are, I think.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
And I think Stephen, it wasn't just losing that game,
as bad as that was a seven and a half
point favorite on homecoming. It wasn't just the point spread,
which was stunning twenty five points. You don't normally see that.
You don't see a team that's more than a touchdown
underdog win by twenty five very often. It was the
(12:10):
way Michigan State played so lackluster, so listless. A lot
of people thought that they had given up, including jalen Berger,
former Spartan, who came back and scored three touchdowns and
said as much after the game. So when you have
that hanging over your head, it's like, you know, you're
the life raft they've shown they've just thrown you has
(12:31):
sprung a leak, and I don't know what you do.
I said to someone Sunday night, Stephen, when I saw
the points spread, So what chance do you give Michigan
State of going to Bloomington and shocking the world? And
the guy says less than one percent? I said, okay,
So let's say that less than one percent happens and
Michigan State beats the number three ranked Hoosiers. Then what
(12:56):
And he said, then I'll say, well, if they're good
enough to do that, why did they play the way
they did the rest of the year. So there's really
nothing he can do. He's going to be hit with
something either way if this happens. Is there an advantage
(13:16):
to doing something the middle of the season. Obviously some
schools think there is. They're shopping now, they're not signing people,
but they're certainly negotiating and trying to identify their candidate.
We know that Alan Haller was doing this during the
season when he knew what had happened, he'd already he'd
(13:39):
had a long time to do it with mel Tucker
out early in the season, but he knew he wasn't
going to retain Harlan Barnett. Harlan Barnett didn't know that.
He thought he was going to interview for the job.
They after the Penn State game, but Jonathan Smith had
already agreed in principle, and Alan Hallard been tracking him
for a couple of month months. So how much of
(14:02):
an advantage is that, if any, to pull on the
plug and saying, okay, let's get on with it, let's
start the search as soon as we can and get
out ahead of the masses.
Speaker 5 (14:15):
Yeah, I've thought about that a little bit, you know
what I mean, Because once you do that, like it's
not like, oh, let's see what the indrom can do
for us, maybe we can get a spark here, like
you're you're pulling the plug, as you said, it would
be all about I guess at this point, it's trying
to sort of keep up with the Jones and stay
competitive with the other openings, you know, because some of
these have been open for a while, and you know,
(14:38):
I don't know how much advantage, but I'm sure there
is an advantage of time and conversations and whatnot. You now,
some things the coaches you're gonna want to talk to
are in the middle of their season still and you're
not gonna be able to get too much done, but
you can get a lot of homework done, some background
checks and background info on folks. So yeah, in that respect,
like when Penn State is open, they're gonna have a
long time to get there done. Virginia, this stuff happens fast.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Jonathan Smith, that decision was basically done before Oregon State
had finished its season. Despite what Jonathan told people out there,
you know, he was certainly in discussions. And it wasn't
long after that last game against Penn State that Michigan
State had his new coach. That didn't all happen in
(15:24):
two days. So let's say after the Michigan game, Steven,
Michigan State loses both of these games, and they decide
that this has to happen. And we've seen this at
Michigan State before. It happened after a loss to Michigan
forty nine to nothing, forty nine to three. I believe
it was back in two thousand and two, it was
(15:44):
the end of Bobby Williams and Morris Watts coached the
rest of the season. Let's say this happens, who is
the interim coach for Michigan State.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
I don't know which way they'll go. I know the
way I would. I don't know if this is how
they would do it, but I would go with Courtney Hawkins.
He makes the most sense to me as the least
connected to Jonathan Smith, the most connected to the program,
you know, and could sort of get rally that sort
of you know, pulling the heartstrings a little bit win
one for the alma mater. He knows what it's about
(16:18):
and everything, and he's been a head coach, obviously only
at the high school level, but he at least sort
of has that understanding of what that role is and
everything that's on the plate. I don't think it can
be a coordinator because I don't think he want to
shove all that extra onto their plate when they're trying
to come up with game plans. And it's not like
you have sort of a bis Pogey type as an
(16:39):
analyst waiting around, you know, an old, old stage that's
been a head coach or whatever been around the block
that you can tap on. So to me, Courtney Hawkins
is the smart pick, and if it were to come
down to that, I'd be curious to see it because
I don't think he'd do a terrible job, to be honest, either,
We'll just give him the circumstances. But that's who I pick.
I don't know how they would do it. You know,
I think bonif as the associate head coach on paper,
(17:02):
but again, do you want to turn to the right
hand man of the guy you just fired? Necessarily A
lot of times they try and sort of have a
distinction there. So I think Hawkins makes all the sense
if it comes down to that, but I don't know
if that's actually how it'll play out.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Yeah, I think you've identified the top two candidates and
it really doesn't matter which one. Let's say, just for
a second, it's Courtney, but it could also be Keith.
And now you've lost badly at Indiana and you have
had your face rubbed in it by Michigan. Everyone has
(17:38):
checked out. They're thinking about basketball, they're thinking about hockey,
they're thinking about who the next coach is going to be.
Just turn the damn page. And you're talking about four
winnable games, not to say that say it will be
favored in any of them. They won't be. But what
if Michigan State beat Minnesota, had a bye week, beat
(18:01):
Penn State, Iowa, and Maryland went to a bowl game,
and suddenly they won the last five games and finished
seven and five. Would Courtney or Keith be a viable
candidate to take over or you know, fans here are
still delusional. They're talking about Nick Saban coming back for
(18:22):
God's sake, or you know, Urban Meyer or some of
the other names I have heard mentioned that Michigan State
is not going to be getting and some of the others, frankly,
who are going to have a lot better offers than
Michigan State. Is it possible that someone could coach themselves
into a back door job.
Speaker 5 (18:45):
No, I don't think so. I don't think that really,
I don't think that flies anymore these days. It's such
a high stakes I mean, we're talking about firing a
guy eighteen games in, right, It's such a high stakes deal.
Now you cannot afford to screw these up and keep
hitting reset. I mean, it's gonna cost a lot of
money to get Jon and Smith out of here and
(19:05):
get somebody else in here that's that's not gonna be
a decision that's made lightly and never got fired with record.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (19:15):
Maybe I have no idea, but at the point is
like Jabtt does not strike me as a guy who's
like gonna go cheap or shortcut route. I think he
wants to make his sort of legacy move, uh and
put his stamp on the the whole athletic department. So
I don't see that happening. And at Michigan State States specifically,
I mean, this almost never works out when people fall
for it, but at Michigan State specifically, I don't think
(19:38):
there's any appetite to throw the interim a bone and say,
all right, let's see what you got type of saying,
given how that's worked in the past here, So zero
percent chance of that happening really all they'd be doing,
It's quite honestly, at that point, those poor games you're
talking about, they would really just be auditioning for coaches
for their next job and players for their next program.
See who wants to come get me in the portal here?
(19:59):
Because there'd be nothing in terms of value to Michigan
State that would carry over at that point even if
they were to go seven to five or whatever.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
You just said.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah, let's talk about a couple of the names that
we have heard or are hearing, and one of the
most prominent is Brent Key. He is the coach at
Georgia Tech. Jay bats Guy. Georgia Tech is six to zero,
ranked twelfth in the country. They visit Duke that's a
(20:30):
dangerous team. That is Saturday at noon. Then they entertain Syracuse.
It's not a guarantee, but they'll be favored certainly. They're
at North Carolina State, same Boston College, which has fallen
out of the plane without a parachute. Then they finish
against Pittsburgh paton Ardoozy having a good year, not a
(20:53):
great year, but a very good year. That is a
home game and then another home game against Georgia. And
if you remember the game against Georgia last year, that
was eight overtimes eight and Georgia Tech should have won
that game. They really outplayed Georgia in every way, managed
(21:13):
to not make a two point conversion and lost that game.
But if Georgia Tech can run the table here and
be twelve and zero and certainly be a top ten team.
Then is that something you can see happening? And if
it is, you got to wait a long time because
now you're talking about a coach who's going to be
(21:36):
in the playoff, might win a playoff game or two.
You're talking about somebody who's not going to come in
until late January. Probably is that a viable option for
Michigan State.
Speaker 5 (21:51):
I think it makes a lot of sense. I think
it'd be a pretty good hire considering to me, Look
that we got to say it too at the top
of this, This does not appear to be a great
cycle to be firing your coach. You know, there's not
an abundance of clear up and comers. You know, there's
not a lot of those PJ. Fleck Western Michigan types.
There's not even a lot of Jonathan Smith types, you
know that are gettable out there. Mike Elko's at Duke
(22:12):
the last time around, you know so. And I don't
think it's a super clear and obvious easy coaching market
to be into, especially if you start talking about Florida
may be opening, maybe Auburn's opening too. You already got
Virginia Tech, you already got Actually just talking about Florida,
stay yeah, you know so, and some people are predicting
(22:33):
a pretty wild cycle here as everybody you know is
run around with cash and trying to make moves and
then trying to establish himself. So anyway to Brent Key,
you know, I think if he does all those things
at the bad time, because I don't know that he
feels he needs to leave Georgia Tech. You know, you're
in the azy C. You're really going to play like
one to two good teams every year and then you
can just dance your way into the playoffs. Like the
(22:55):
level of competition just isn't there compared to the big ten,
and you can still do every If he does all that,
he wins a couple of playoff games, even he's got
to sit back and say, wait a second, what am
I going to do? Much like Kurt Signetti and the
discussions around him, what am I going to do in
Michigan State that I'm not already doing here? He's in
Atlanta surrounded by a ton of talent. If you can
be the big fish in the ACC, you know, again,
(23:16):
it's not a hard road. You have Miami and sort
of the withering corpse of Clemson. I guess maybe Florida
State gets it right, but it's just not the same
level of competition as up here. So I don't know
if it necessarily he wants to leave there. I've heard
some things that he really does not and would not
be interested in leaving there at this point in time.
So I think you kind of need him to fall
(23:37):
in his face a little bit and put a little
dirt on his resume if you're going to have a
shot at him. I know Jay Batt has the relationship.
I'm sure that that will at least be considered, but
I don't know that. Again, I don't know that he's
gonna be willing to leave and be like I just said,
I don't know that he if it even makes a
lot of sense for him to leave. If he's got
a nice thing going, he's got a rolling in an
easy winnable league, why would you need to come up here?
(24:01):
I guess in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
If Michigan State is paying Jonathan Smith seven and a
half million dollars, which seems like a boatload of money
to me, but it is the tenth highest salary in
an eighteen team conference, and we know that Brent Key
is making less than that at Georgia Tech. Let's say
Georgia Tech said, Okay, we're going to pay you eight
(24:24):
million dollars. Would Michigan State be prepared to break the bank.
They've already got a thirty two million dollar buyout here
that they're staring at. Don't forget that's real money. That's
not something you can just write a check for. You
have to be able to pay it. But you have
(24:45):
to do something because they're not going to sell season
tickets next year with Jonathan Smith leading this program, and
they're not going to be able to get the kind
of donations they need to compete in name, image and likeness,
or even just the revenue share twenty million if football
doesn't show a pulse. So do you think Michigan State
(25:07):
would say, Okay, this is our guy. We've identified a guy.
He's a Saban protege. We know the problem. Offensive lines
have been here, Georgia Tech's offensive lines not the problem,
and we're going to pay this guy ten million dollars.
Could you see that happening?
Speaker 5 (25:27):
I guess, because I mean I can kind of you
can kind of see anything happening in this era. Would
it be the smartest thing when you're paying Genain Smith
that much, and I mean, I think Brent Key's a
good coach. I wouldn't have the same positive reaction though
to hiring him that I had when they hired Johnas
you know, JOHNA. Smith would to come in I think
as a probably a more proven coach, at least for now.
(25:47):
I guess we'll see how Key finishes out, but I
think he would be a good hire, maybe about as
good as they could do. Again, this cycle doesn't look
super attractive when you look across the board, but I
thought JOHNA. Smith was a great hire. Obviously not worked out,
And we've talked many times about how you can't predict
these things. Luke Fickle was a A plus hire for
Wisconsin and that's going up in flames. Scott Frost a
(26:08):
plus higher didn't work out at all. Nebraska, Jim Harbaugh
a plus higher took some time, eventually worked out, dubious circumstances, whatever.
But just you cannot predict these things, no matter how
good of a fit they might be or how bad
it might be on surface. So I don't know if
you break the bank to the point. For Brent Keeth,
I don't know if he's there yet. You know, I
guess I'd have to know there are other options and
(26:29):
what else they have. But you know that is a
wild card because Jabat has worked intimately with him, he
knows him very very well, and if he truly believes
he's a can't miss type of guy, then yeah, I
could see them doing something like that and really making
a statement and say, hey, you are leaving Georgia tech buddy,
you don't have a choice. Here's the check, you know,
fill in the numbers. You are leaving to tell us
how to get it done. If he feels that strongly
(26:51):
about him, then sure, But I don't know if that's
the case.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
There's a segment, Stephen, and you probably know some these
people who want a spartan, they want someone who is
from here, and they'll they'll hit you with the you know,
Bigie Duffy, George was a spartan. Nick had been here,
came back, D'Antonio had been here, came back. They think
(27:17):
that is particularly important. Do you think there's any chance
that that would happen? And you know, maybe that that's
a Nardoozie type. Some people have mentioned even mentioned Pat
Shermer's name, although he had to failed stints in the
National Football League. Now he's now at Colorado. Do you
(27:38):
think there's any chance they would go that direction or
Jay Batt is certainly not wedded to that.
Speaker 5 (27:45):
I'd be very surprised if that was some sort of
like marching order. I mean, Jay Bat's not from here.
He's going to be heeering the ship. I don't think
he's gonna really care about that unless it was sort
of a made and non negotiable to him by the
money people. But I think at this point the money
people are gonna say, go get us the best coach
and start winning games now, please, And they're not going
to care if he's from Mars, you know, as long
(28:06):
as a guy can win. So that's kind of my
sense of it. I Mean, the problem is, as we
all know, D'Antonio stuck with his guys, you know, for
the better part of that thirteen years. Nardozzi is the
only one who left an S and had a little
bit of success, So there's not like a big crop
to pull from him. There's not this D'Antonio tree and
Nardoozi's getting up there, and you know he's kind of
(28:26):
had a you know, up and down time there every
time it looks really dismal. He seems to pull out
a decent season and give himself a little more time,
so he credit to him there. I mean, there are
worst head coaches. There are people that had worse ten years.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
But he was moving to win the press conference when
people are looking for someone with personality. And I think
that's one of the biggest knocks against Jonathan. It's the style.
It's that he looks so detached and you listen to him.
You know, someone told me that they couldn't lead a
pack of scouts across the street with the traffic light. Uh,
you know, and fair or or not, that is the perception.
(29:03):
That's never been a problem with Pat, who will tell
you exactly what he thinks, and the problem is you
can't print half of it. So you know, he was
known for coming down from the press box to the
sideline and basically challenging his own players to f his fights.
But you know it worked, and you know, Michigan State
(29:23):
wound up with a Rose Bowl win and much much more.
In the Darduzzi era, I call it the D'Antonio Nardozzi
era because I think he was clearly the second one
and the guy who really gave. He was kind of
like a good cop bad cop deal with D'Antonio, only
usually it's the other way, the assistant is a good cop.
(29:47):
In this case, there was a real fear factor. So
that's just one option, and I agree with you it's
it's highly unlikely. I want to talk about some coaches
and if you don't think it's important that he'd be
from Mission State, I think a lot of people think
that it is important that he knows the Big Ten,
that he knows the region, that he has maybe been
(30:09):
in Spartan Stadium once, that he understands what Michigan State
is all about. And there are some coaches in this
league whose names have come up and would be or
might be available. Let me give you three of them.
A lot of people think that PJ. Fleck, who would
win any press conference, is going to be out at Minnesota.
(30:33):
They think that, you know, his act is Warren Thin.
They've reached whatever they can do there, and PJ. Fleck
would certainly embrace the chance to be at another Big
Ten program than Minnesota, even though he he talks about
it and you know he represents But if he had
a chance to coach at Michigan State or Michigan. I'm
(30:55):
sure he would jump at that. There's Pat Fitzgerald, who
had I think amazing success. You know, you're talking about
five double digit win seasons at Northwestern, You're talking about
eight Bowl wins at Northwestern. You're talking about a guy
who was the youngest coach in the country when he started,
(31:16):
and he is still young. He's in his early fifties,
so he could be around for a long time. And
he was pretty much exonerated in terms of the hazing episode.
But you know, he's got a lot of money now.
It looks like with that settlement he's going to have
from Northwestern, you know, he's looking for a chance to
(31:38):
come in and shove it up people's rear and show
that you know, hey, I'm a good coach. I was
a good coach. And there are people who would die
for Pat Fitzgerald. I know some of them. The other
name is James Franklin, and we were just talking about
the chance that Matt Rule at Nebraska is going to succeed.
(32:03):
James Franklin. He's going to move, he's going to go home.
He's going to go back to Penn State where he played,
and he says how much he loves Penn State. If
that happens, some people think James Franklin's going to wind
up in Nebraska. So it's going to be a trade
rule for Franklin. But would Michigan State want to get
into James Franklin sweep stakes. Yeah, he can't win the
(32:25):
biggest of big games, but first you have to win
the small ones and medium ones. And James Franklin has
won eleven games or more five times, and he's one
of only four who have done that, with Urban Meyer,
Ryan Day and Mark D'Antonio. So any of those three
I think that you think that would be a great
(32:46):
fit at Michigan State.
Speaker 5 (32:49):
Yes, so I think there's a pecking order. PJ absolutely
not start at the bottom. I guess, okay, you know,
I don't think he's done enough to really excite for
I think he's kind of shown his ceiling. I don't
think a lot of people would buy into that as
really being a difference maker long term in terms of
raising the ceiling in terms of getting Mission State in
the playoffs. Consistently, he's had more than enough time at
(33:12):
Minnesota has sort of tried to show that they really
haven't other than a couple of blips, So I just
don't think he excites at this point. I think he
kind of is what he is and what he's doing
at Minnesota. Maybe eight nine wins ceiling is probably about
what he would do here. I don't think that's what
they're shooting for here. The next tier up, Yeah, i'd
go Franklin. Look, you could do a whole lot worse.
And if he went, I think he would win comparably
(33:33):
to how he won a Penn State and probably would
still struggle in the big He.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Could bring in the staff, he could bring in some players.
Speaker 5 (33:41):
Oh yeah, he would recruit well. He's been a proven
recruiter in Detroit, specifically, he has a lot of recognition there,
so he would recruit well right away. I'm sure he
would win pretty much right away, But I still think
he'd eventually run into the same issues of winning the
big one. And but but still, I think I think
it takes a good ten years to get sick of that,
probably before you're really sure. Well, he does have a
(34:03):
track record, so maybe he wouldn't get but still, MS
few folks I know would take a good, good run
of six seven years of ten to eleven wins even
if it wasn't because it was short of a national title,
so they could do a lot worse than that. I
do thinking about this. The one thing that struck me
with him though, is we all know him and Mark
D'Antonio were in best buddies, and it's not that D'Antonio
(34:23):
is the biggest power broker, But I do wonder if
that would be a thing at all, You know, would
he really be comfortable with it? Because he does self
a presence around the program, not a big one, but
it's still his aura is still around it. And I
don't know, I guess the degree to which their relationship is,
but I just kind of wonder if he would be
fully on board with that, and if that would cause
a little uneasiness with Jay batt With tom Izzo, I'm
(34:46):
sure he's going to have a big voice in this.
Would they would D'Antonio and his relationship have any kind
of effect on it?
Speaker 1 (34:52):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (34:52):
It's just something I thought about that I think is
worth thinking about. Maybe it's nothing, Maybe it's something pat
Visgeriald for me, would be a top tier sort of thing.
You forget about him because he's not out there. I
think somebody's going to get him, and someone's going to
be happy that they did. Like you mentioned, all the accomplishments,
he's a proven coach. Young guys still would come back
with an edge, as you mentioned, which I think Misigan
State would would grab onto. He has a lot of
(35:16):
the same values and fundamentals that folks around here would
appreciate if they could get that done. And he's a
really interesting wild card. I don't know what he wants
to do or how soon he wants to do it,
but you know, there might be a little bit of
question because of Misigan State's history and his history with
a little baggage. You have to smooth that over. Get
the pr right. I don't think it's a deal breaker
(35:36):
by any means. It's just something that has to be considered.
But I think he'd be a really good get, would
stabilize things. Like I said, come in with a hunger.
I think he'd recruit. He'd have a brand name behind him.
Now eventually maybe again, you run into that issue of
getting over the hump from good to great. He never
really did that Northwestern.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
If the talent he had at Northwestern and the players
he could get, I mean, you know, him to win
a national championship. There is you know, pretty delusional, I
would think. But Pat Fitzgerald did turn the University of
Michigan down twice, including once when Dave Brandon flew to
Chicago with the contract. And you know, maybe there's something
(36:20):
to that. Certainly has the personality. You know, he is
an enthusiastic I mean, if you're talking about an energy gap,
Pat Fitzgerald gets out of bed with more energy than
most people have if they have been sucking camp caffeine
for eight hours.
Speaker 5 (36:41):
Yeah, and I think you get a great version of him,
you know. I mean, he'd been in North less than
a long time, he had some success. I don't know,
maybe it just you know, we've seen change of scenery,
help people, and what he's gone through trying to get
his name back and everything. I think you get a
really good version of him. I think he'd be energized
to sort of navigate this landscape, you know, at least
(37:01):
you hope so, because why get into it, you know,
if not go to the NFL or just sit on
your big pile of money, you know, if you're not
ready to get dirty and you know, roll up your
seeds with with all that this era takes. But I
think you'd get a good version of him motivated to
I guess iid continue to sort of reclaim his name
a little bit. I think there's some some similarities with
what he did well at Northwestern that would play well here,
(37:21):
with the defense, with the physicality, blue collar nature to
it all, there'd be a lot of that. I think
would be a very very good fit. I don't have
a lot of downside. Like I said, you'd have to
move out the pr part a little bit. But as
you said, I mean, I think that's fairly easy to do.
He's he's basically been cleared of all that stuff, so
I think that'd be a minor, minor hurdle. I don't
know if you'd have to necessarily break the bank for
(37:42):
him unless he's in a bidding war. I mean, maybe
Michigan comes open. That's something I think has to be
discussed too. And I think that's something that some coaches
an agent so are thinking about if they really slide here,
when you know, once they fall out of the playoffs
and whatnot, do they want to stick around with Sharon
more because that would be a huge wild card in
the coaching carousel. But yeah, I think Passager would be
(38:02):
a great pick for him and probably one of the
one of the safest and one of the highest ceilings.
At the same time, I don't have a I don't
have a lot of bad things to say about it.
If they were able to go in that direction, I
would celebrate that.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
I'm gonna give you one other big ten name. And
this is not a guy who has any head coaching experience,
but he's going to be a hot one in the cycle,
and somebody is gonna is going to buy in and say,
you know, he is the guy. He is the next guy,
and that's Brian Hartline. And I wanted him to get
a long look the last time. It didn't happen, But
(38:36):
he is now the offensive coordinator. Chip Kelly is gone
at Ohio State. He was an outstanding receiver there, a
guy who made himself into a player long career in
the National Football League. Had more than four hundred catches
there again, you know undrafted guy a lot of izzo
(38:59):
in Brian Hartline. He's been named the top recruiter in
college football. Now it looks like you got a great
chance to come in as a back to back national champ.
The big problem with Brian Hartline is again you're talking
about going to February. You know almost before you could
(39:21):
you could really have him on the ground running certainly
well into January, depending what Ohio state does you know?
Do you want to basically just write this off and say,
you know, bring in who you can and you know,
we're going to give you a long leash. But I
think that any team that gets Brian Hartline is going
to be really happy they did.
Speaker 5 (39:44):
They could be, and it could be one of those
scenarios where we go, geez, how did everybody miss that
for so long? You know, I mean, he's yeah, tell
you everything you said. He's got a very good reputation.
I could see it that. The thing is, though, well,
first of all, I thought you were gonna mention Will
Sein at Oregon. He's kind of a hot coordinator right now.
And turns out his wife actually has some some Lancing
area ties, so maybe there's something in play there. But
(40:06):
but but my bigger thing is I just don't know that.
I mean, you think about being in j Bat's shoes,
You're you're cutting a huge check to get rid of
this guy, and now you're going to basically risk your
position on a first time head coach in this competitive
Big Ten environment. I mean maybe he's coach, yes, yes,
(40:27):
but who else was?
Speaker 1 (40:28):
I think some guy named Izzo? You know? Who else was?
Some guy named Nightingale?
Speaker 5 (40:34):
Right right? All different eras though, you know, in different
different spots. I just this is basically going to be
Jabat's job on the line.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
You know.
Speaker 5 (40:40):
And now he starts the clock. Really his tenure when
he makes this higher. So is he going to be
comfortable and willing or the donor is going to be
comfortable and willing to take an experiment? And I've never
been a head coach candidate before, I don't know. I
just think that's something to consider for a guy in
his position, with all the all the that's on his plate.
Is he going to be willing to risk this huge
pivotal I'm somebody like that. I will say too, if
(41:03):
Wisconsin's not smart enough to hire my guy, Jason Ck
out of New Mexico, I bet you could get him
for fairly cheap, and I know that he would do.
He'd make you a winner. I'm confident in that. And
again the highest level of winning. I don't know, but
the way he fliving that anybody.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
Who comes in here and doesn't move the needle and
is at a disadvantage before he starts. And I think
will Stein and Jason Eck are great names. They are
going to be great candidates, probably excellent choices for someone
I want someone. And then normally I say winning the
press conference doesn't matter here. I think the important thing
(41:40):
is getting everybody excited about this, and even more so
now than ever because stadium was empty last week the
start of the fourth quarter. I know a lot of
people have already decided they're not buying tickets next year.
And for Michigan State to be a player, which it
needs to be in name, image and likeness and revenue sharing,
(42:05):
all of those kinds of things, it's going to take
people believing, buying in and digging deep. And I think
it's important Michigan State have kind of a sexy hire here.
Speaker 5 (42:17):
I agree with that. Like I said, though, I just
don't know that there's many out there like Passage. Jared
would be that, James Franklin would be that, maybe Brent
Gee would be that. You know how many Michigans State
Big ten fans really know brink still and what he's doing.
Speaker 4 (42:29):
Yeah, I'm not a lot.
Speaker 5 (42:31):
I don't think there's a lot of Yeah, I don't
think there's a lot of that flashy, you know, sex
appeal out on the market. So I just don't know
if that's going to be in the cards period.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
I do agree that like that, I mean, he's a
you know, he's he's more energetic than Jonathan Smith. But
you know, there's a long, long way, a big gap
from Brent Key to Fits or you know, PJ. Fleck
is off the charts with that. But I do think
it's important that somebody who can get the base excited
(43:02):
again and they haven't been that in a.
Speaker 5 (43:04):
Long time, right right, Yeah, I just don't think that
from what I can tell. So, I mean that's another
name that's hot that I don't know if there's going
to be a fit or in the conversation here anything
is Alex Golash down at South Florida. But like by now,
that's we've not named basically all the hot names and
candidates and everything and love that group. Like I said,
only a couple are really splashes. I mean Urban Meyer
would be a splash. I guess I don't think that's
(43:26):
going to be a thing. So, like it's it's yeah,
it's it's Franklin, it's Fitzgerald, and then it's everybody else.
In terms of that key, I guess would probably be
the biggest in terms of a sitting head coach. People
would do their research and whatnot, but it's yeah, I
don't think from what looks like as you try to
map out sort of the reasonable candidate pool, there's not
(43:46):
a lot that's going to be a groundshaker. I don't think,
and I don't know people to.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
Let me give you one other name, and people are
gonna roll their eyes at this one, but I'll tell you.
You mentioned Mark D'Antonio, and he's he's D'antonio's guy. I mean,
Mark goes and sees Paton or Doosey and this guy
every year. And uh, he has a winning resume for
the most part, and he was hot candidate for Michigan
(44:16):
State before uh they didn't get him. What if Michigan
State made a run at Luke Fickle and said it
didn't work at Wisconsin but it would here.
Speaker 5 (44:26):
Absolutely not absolutely not no, not the way he's crashed
and burned there, he's lit his sock on fire. There's
nothing that he's done in Wisconsin and maker you go,
I want some of that. And you know, people still
remember last time. They kind of feel still spurned by
that and all the total about his family.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
The only time that a group of five team has
made the college football Playoff, the coach was Looke Fickle.
Speaker 5 (44:50):
Yeah, no, I get it, but he's he's sullied that.
You know that. That's especially in today's the world how
fast things move. That that's ages ago in the in
the currency landscape of today. The other one I'll throw
out real quick, I think, is this at least worth
a call poking around? Somebody's got to get him sometime.
Is Matt Campbell out of Iowa. Say, I still think
he's a good coach. He's lost some lesser but the
(45:11):
Ohio guy change the scenery to a real competent league
out here. I would at least call him. I'd want
to be interested in him.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
For who can't get Dan Campbell? Maybe you get Matt Campbell.
Speaker 4 (45:21):
Right exactly the way.
Speaker 5 (45:25):
See what do you think?
Speaker 1 (45:26):
The last thing I want to hit you with on
this is you know what Jonathan Smith's record is at
Michigan State.
Speaker 5 (45:34):
At eight and ten.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
Eight and ten correct, which isn't that much different from
the start with Duffy Doherty or Nick Saban. Better than
George Purlis's start, not that much different, a little bit
than Mark d'antonio's. But you know who had a four
(45:57):
nineteen and one record in his first twenty four games. No,
Dan Campbell with the Detroit Lions.
Speaker 5 (46:09):
All right, my head was not on the right spot. Yeah, No,
I mean it's it does feel weird to be talking
about this the six games in the year two, right,
And I do think that there's some some good stuff
to Jhonn Smith and his fat But when you look
at the whole totality of it, I mean, where can
you really say that the program has made progress through
(46:30):
eighteen games? Now, eighteen doesn't sound like a lot, but
we talk about it here every week. This game doesn't
connect to the last game, doesn't connect to the next game.
You know, we talked about Child's growth a little bit,
and now weren't talking about regression. The offensive line hasn't improved,
The run game is nothing as it was the first
day he got here. I mean, there's just there's Recruiting
(46:50):
is in basically the same spot, Like, there's nothing that's
really advanced, So how is it going to advance over
the back half of this with less momentum, with less support,
with a harder schedule. You know, it's just that's the bummer,
is just nothing's moving forward. I don't think he's, you know,
the worst coach that's ever walked the sidelines or anything,
but things are not moving forward. And again, just to
(47:12):
circle back, I mean, the folks have already decided how
they felt about him, a lot of people a long
time ago. And when it's not moving forward, it's to
the writings on the wall. And I think that's where
we are.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
Yeah, I want to give you another coach here, and
let's talk about his first eighteen games. Okay, let's see
that would be all right? How about four and fourteen
(47:50):
for Kirk Farence his first eighteen games at Iowa.
Speaker 5 (47:56):
We might as well be talking like pre dinosaur era
at this point. That like with the era.
Speaker 1 (48:04):
Era, right, it doesn't matter, it's irrelevant.
Speaker 5 (48:07):
Yeah, it's not even comparable. No, I mean he would
have been fired in these days, so that's where you know,
he would have been fired a long time ago, would
have been fired, So it's not even comparable.
Speaker 1 (48:15):
Yeah, Steven, thanks, so much. Really appreciate your joining us.
We have a lot to talk about and something else me.
We're gonna be talking about this for the next several weeks.
Have fun in Bloomington. You're going to see Memorial Stadium
(48:35):
the way you have never seen it before. Used to
be that half the fans are more were for the
visiting team. Now good luck trying to get a ticket
or a parking space. We will be right back and
we're going to talk with Bill Benner, long time sports writer,
one of the best in the Midwest. Spent decades at
(48:56):
the Indianapolis Star, then with the Indiana Sports Commission, and
he now retired, has Indiana University football season tickets, and
he's gonna tell us all about Kurt Signetti and this amazing,
unthinkable turnaround in Bloomington. Be right back on the Drive.
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Jack Kebling here with my good friend Matt Sloan at
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Speaker 1 (53:11):
Welcome back. It is a driver with Jack the Spotlight
Radio Network. Jackieving here with my producer Boston Rob. Rob
someone asked me today if i'mone I hadn't seen for
a long time, says, how are you doing? And I said, okay,
I'm a lot better than Jonathan Smith. And one reason
(53:32):
is I don't have to coach against Kurt Signetti Saturday.
But Michigan State is going to be in Bloomington as
a twenty seven and a half point underdog, a number
I thought I would never see. I want to welcome
in Bill Benner. We know him from decades of great
work at the Indianapolis Star and then very important stuff
(53:56):
with the Indiana Sports Commission. Now you see him at
NCAA tournament games and he's there as a press moderator,
conducting the press conferences after the game. But he's also
an IU football season ticket holder. Bill that must be
more fun than anyone ever imagined it could be in Bloomington.
Speaker 6 (54:19):
Well, the imagined is the opetcative word, because nobody. I
was telling somebody the other day it wasn't that long
ago that I, my wife and I sat at in
the Memorial Stadium and onced I you lose to a
very mediocre Rutgers team, and I remember getting in the
(54:43):
car and getting on then Indian thirty seven. Now I
sixty nine to come back to Indianapolis and telling Sherry,
I said, let's just turn off the radio. We're not
going to listen to doctorsher on the post game, and
we're not going to talk until we get at least
two I for sixty five back in Indianapolis. And so
(55:04):
that wasn't that long ago. And then we had the brief,
very the brief instance of Tom Allen and the COVID season.
You know, it would figure that Indiana would have success
in the COVID season when nobody could be there. And
then Tom Allen goes away and here comes the Signetti guy,
(55:30):
and here we are nineteen games, he's seventeen and two.
Indiana's ranked number one in the USA Today Poll, number
three in the AP pole and Memorial Stadium has sold
out for the rest of the year as the Spartans
come into town. And no no one could ever have
(55:51):
imagined that maybe Kurt Sega, maybe Kurts Snetti, but nobody else.
Speaker 1 (56:00):
So Bill I was talking to Fisher yesterday and he's
had ten Indiana football coaches. I've had thirteen Michigan State
football coaches going on fourteen. Here very soon, what has
Signetti done that no one else could do? And there
were some good coaches on that Listlique Courso, I think
(56:22):
it was a pretty good football coach nearly succeeded Duffie
already here the utmost respect for Bill Mallory, Terry Yepner.
There's some guys here who knew, you know, what a
football look like, and they haven't come close to what
we're seeing now. How did this happen?
Speaker 4 (56:42):
Well?
Speaker 6 (56:42):
I think part of it is the environment, the fact
that he was able to when he came from James Madison,
he was able to bring I think with thirteen or
fourteen players and six or seven assistant coaches and so.
And I think they arrived, especially the players. I think
they arrived with a similar chip on their shoulder a
(57:05):
bit disrespected that or under or disrespected, underrated whatever. Uh
and so I think that system and that attitude came
with them in this in this new environment. He struck
struck at Ritch last year when he got Curtis Rourke
(57:27):
to bea the quarterback, transferring me in from ohiou he
hit the nail. He did it again this year with
Fernando Mendoza from California.
Speaker 1 (57:37):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (57:38):
He is he has around that j m U nucleus. Uh,
they have done done very well in the portal, the
you know Allie's they got a kid the offensive linement
starting offensive linement from Notre Dame to come to to
come to Indiana. So it's a mindset, it's a development
(57:59):
of talent, it's a system, a proven system that worked
in his previous stops. Uh. And so I think the
combination of all of that, Uh, you know you talked
about Terry Hepner. Terry Heppner's great quote was if you
think you can or you think you can't, you're right. Well,
(58:21):
Kurt Signetty thinks you can and and that IU And
that's that's a that's a mindset that probably has been
as from most of these one hundred and twenty years
of football.
Speaker 1 (58:39):
So you remember when he was introduced and Scott center
and he took the mic at halftime very briefly before
he dropped it and Uh screamed, Uh, I don't know
used to losing. Uh, and I'll plan to do it here.
By the way, produce sucks and soda Michigan and Ohio State.
(59:04):
How much did that mean to the mindset Indiana fans?
Speaker 6 (59:09):
Well, I think, I think, I think, you know, the
new sheriff is in town. He's coming with UH bistols loaded.
You know, It's funny Jack. I was the UH they
had the big ten media day at Lucas Oil Stadium
prior to UH the last season UH, and I was
Signetti's host, and so I took him around to the
(59:32):
various I probably probably brought him to you, but I
took him around to the various, So I to the
various media outlets. And so I spent eight hours with
the guy, and I told him my history with you know,
in sports journalism with the Star, and that I've been
around IU football for four years and that we had
(59:53):
subsequently become season ticket holders because I had this horrible
thing that I've I somehow guy hooked into AU football. Anyway,
I came home that night for sure, sure my wife
shar He said, so, how was he? I said, he
was the most brash guy I've ever run across UH.
(01:00:17):
And if he doesn't win, they're going to destroy him.
But if he does win, UH, he's going to uplift
the entire entire place. And and he has again seventeen
and two, he's packed it up to to this point now.
And I say to this point because so many of
(01:00:41):
so many of us who have followed AU football, we're
still we're still shaking our heads and our heads, you know,
it's still hard to grasp what has taken place. And
so Jack, believe me when I say this, I'm not
looking he further ahead than opening kickoffs against against Party
(01:01:04):
this Saturday.
Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
M Well, I think you're gonna have a good time Saturday. So, Uh,
what would have happened? I I asked on this question yesterday.
I'm curious to get your response. What would happen if
Bob Knight and Kurt Signetti got into a real argument,
(01:01:28):
not as something very contentious? Who would win? Oh?
Speaker 6 (01:01:33):
That that's a good one. That stand is a really
really good one. Night Geece Jack, that's it? Uh, I
got I gotta think about that. I think Signetti has
a physical pugnacis am I saying it right?
Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (01:02:00):
Physical, a physical pugnacity to him?
Speaker 5 (01:02:05):
Yeah that.
Speaker 6 (01:02:07):
In Night Night was more still bent on psychological warfare. Uh,
And so I think it's I think it would have
come down to the physical versus the mental. Perhaps, I gotcha?
Speaker 4 (01:02:22):
How about that?
Speaker 6 (01:02:24):
And what does this say? Uh?
Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
He said that, you know, it may never end. I
don't know. Eventually they would come to some sort of
some sort of agreement on some small factors. And you
know it's on the physical thing. Night was such an
imposing figure, much bigger than than a lot of people
would realize. But he was that was the case, and
it might be different. But I wouldn't think that Signetty
(01:02:50):
would ever back down from anyone. I'm also curious, being
in Indiana, every time the Hoosiers do this, what does
it do to Boilermakers?
Speaker 6 (01:03:04):
Uh, that's a good question made. But what the Boilermakers
right now will say, Well, what about basketball? That's what
That's what they were they would say, that's what they
would say currently. But yeah, this football thing. So uh,
I think the Boilermakers are hoping that they have struck
(01:03:30):
similar gold with Barry Odom and that they will see
the results. But you know, again, Signetti did this instantly,
and obviously Purdue is not in the instant turnaround category
for what we always seen so far. So you know,
(01:03:50):
there's always a bit of envy. Uh right nowdu Fants
would say, wait till basketball.
Speaker 1 (01:03:59):
Yeah, so let's say again we're going from into the
land of the impossible. Let's say Indiana wins the national
championship and sixty three to ten over Illinois and a
double digit win at Austin Stadium suggests that, you know,
anything could happen. Let's say Indiana wins the College football
(01:04:21):
Playoff and then Purdue, which we know has had so
many great basketball teams and has never won it, and
this is their year they win the national championship in basketball.
Could the state of Indiana function with this? And which
fan base would smile the widest?
Speaker 6 (01:04:44):
Well, I would think, Okay, I think the Indiana fan
base would smile the widest because it's so unexpected. There's
this history, this history of being you know, Indiana football.
Whereas Purdue, you know, going back to the going way
back to the days of French Ouse Le Rose, They've
(01:05:09):
had they've had a certain modicum of national success so
that they haven't won the national championship. Uh And Matt Painter,
Matt Painter, Indiana people even like Matt Painter, at least
this guy does, because he's a Hoosier through and through.
He's a hell of a good coach. He comports himself
(01:05:30):
at such a high level that I think Indiana people,
Uh admire Matt Painter as uh, they hold me with
great respect. But the unexpectedness of Indiana's rise the football
prominence would be it would be one of the great
sports stories of all time, no question, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:05:52):
No question. It's it's almost impossible to dislike Matt Painter.
I think he's you know, Michigan fans Matt Painter, Tom
is so recruited Matt Painter. I mean, he's I have
so much respect for him. And you know the thing
that I always point to, Bill, and you've done enough
of these press conferences. I don't think you did this one.
(01:06:14):
You weren't in Columbus when Purdue lost right to the
sixteen seed. No, okay, So after this game, and it's
only the second time it had ever happened, right, So
he comes into the press conference up there and a
lot of people are like, you know, if this had
(01:06:36):
been an asshole, they would they would have read of
the riot Act. But Painter, you know, they're like, oh,
you know, we're as uncomfortable as he is. And he
sat up there and he took every question and then
they were trying to get him off the podium. They
were like, okay, well, you know we're done, coach, you go?
He said no, No, said anybody have anything else? Went
(01:06:57):
around the room. I want to make sure everyone had
asked every question and could not have conducted himself with
a more class or de corum.
Speaker 6 (01:07:08):
Well, you mentioned my the intro. You mentioned my role
as the press conference moderator, and in that role, I
have been up on the dias with Matt on most
boy occasions, and I have never ever seen him not
(01:07:29):
give the question a well thought out composed answer, Nor
have I ever seen him lose his cool pounty's fist,
you know, throw away the score sheet and wrap it
up and wad it up and throw it under the table.
I've never seen a hint of that from Matt Danner.
(01:07:53):
He you set a class and the korum and I
can't think of a two better terms to describe him.
And he's a hell of a basketball coach.
Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
Yeah, just throw that in. Yeah. Uh talk about the
media for a second, and you hear about Bob Uker
in Milwaukee and how you know they're trying to win
one for you reading a message whether it was you know,
legitimate or contrived from him to the team, and you
(01:08:27):
know this has become kind of a Uker tour here
for the Milwaukee Brewers. What do you think Bob Hamil
would be thinking right now?
Speaker 6 (01:08:39):
Oh, my gosh, that's a that's an emotional question. Bob
would be, Uh, you know what, Bob would be cranking
out five stories today. We would be he'd be, he'd
be hitting every angle. He would be taking full advantage
(01:09:03):
of his proximity within the program and his relationship with
with the within the program, and he'd be he'd be
beating all of the rest of us.
Speaker 5 (01:09:17):
Yeah, but you.
Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
Think he would walks with Curi.
Speaker 6 (01:09:26):
I don't know whether the No, probably not, because Sega's
looking at game film in the he's sitting there, He's
sitting in that recliner of his looking.
Speaker 1 (01:09:36):
At game film right right. For those of you who
don't know the name Bob Hamill, he was the the editor.
And I don't know anyone ever cranked out more copy
uh than than Pops did for the Bloomington Herald. I
guess it was Harold Telephone. Uh he started right and
(01:09:57):
and uh, you know, for more than a half cent.
And I also, I want to give you a chance
to weigh in on our mutual friend Michael Presty and
I had a chance to talk to him last night
and dealing with some real tough stuff now with the
cancer and after losing his wife. And now you know
(01:10:21):
he's he thinks about more than sports, I'll tell you that,
and some of the best commentary that you you would
ever read. But I told him, Hey, you know you're
way too important to leave us.
Speaker 5 (01:10:34):
Now, Yes, I couldn't.
Speaker 6 (01:10:37):
I could not agree more. Mike is Mike is one
of the most versible journalists that I've ever been around.
He's has the ability to capture the moment, whether it's
an Olympic gold medal basketball game or high school sectional
(01:11:00):
in Richmond, Indiana.
Speaker 1 (01:11:02):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (01:11:03):
He he has he Mike has the ability to again,
no matter the level of the sport, no matter the sport.
Uh He's got the incredible Oh and he does it.
Speaker 5 (01:11:18):
He can.
Speaker 6 (01:11:18):
He turns out these parols on deadline, I mean instantly.
Speaker 1 (01:11:23):
The fastest two I've ever seen, no question, no question.
Speaker 6 (01:11:29):
Uh So my prayers are obviously with Mike. Uh. We
gather about once every couple of months. There was a
well known sports writer for the Indianapolis News named Ray
Compton who is undergoing some difficulties physically and is confined
to an assisted living facility. So Jim russ Old, former
(01:11:52):
Indianapolis News sports writer and the press box announcer at
ross A Stadium at Purdue, Mike Lapresty Tom raeven the
former Indianapolis News and sportswriter, and we we get together
every couple of months with Ray Compton. The last time
we got gathered, we had no idea Mie. Uh yeah,
(01:12:15):
and uh, I've exchange. I send him a couple of messages,
but I would again my thoughts are with I hate
that cliche, but.
Speaker 1 (01:12:24):
They all yeah, yeah, Well a lot of our listeners
have read his stuff for years and you may not
even know it, but for the Gannett News Service and
USA Today and now for NCAA dot com. Uh, you know,
just the most respect for him and you know, pulling
for him as hard as as you and I can.
I'm sure, Bill, thanks so much for your time. Really
(01:12:48):
appreciate it. And I will talk to you again before
Indiana wins the national championship.
Speaker 6 (01:12:54):
Now, now, Jack, well you will you being moment on
the third.
Speaker 1 (01:12:58):
You know I was going to go. I actually had
a credential and some things that come up here, and
so I am not going to be there. I was
planning to be there. There's a chance I will be
at a Big Ten championship game in Indianapolis. I've done
that before when Michigan State or Michigan hasn't been there.
(01:13:19):
So I would love to see an Indiana Ohio state
championship game, and maybe we will see that. But nonetheless,
I think you've got a couple of months here of
a big moments ahead, and I'm not talking about basketball.
Speaker 6 (01:13:39):
Well again, I'm not looking any further ahead than the
three thirty kitchen off, and we'll see how transporters. You know,
they got UCLI next week you say I's playing better,
and then we'll take it from there down the road.
Thank you, Hey, and always Jack, thank you. I value
our friendship. Shift Thorne way way.
Speaker 1 (01:14:01):
Back, Bill Betner, one of the giants covering the Big
Ten decades of great work at the Indianapolis Star. We
will be right back and the plan is to hear
from Kristin Kelsey, Michigan State's first year volleyball coach. And
she's not maybe a miracle worker on the Signetti level,
(01:14:26):
but really really impressive start. I haven't lost a home match.
They just had a straight sets win over twentieth ranked
Indiana and at fourteen and two, preparing for well somewhat
consider to be the impossible. That is a visit from
(01:14:46):
number one ranked Nebraska at Breslent Center Friday night. We'll
talk to Christen about her team, it's accomplishments and the
challenges ahead. Coming up on the drive with Jack Game
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Speaker 1 (01:17:51):
Common welcome back. It is a drive with Jack Spotlight
Radio Network, Jack Evlin here with my producer Boston Rob.
(01:18:13):
Rob just got some news here, you got it before
I did that. Kristin Kelsey got pulled into a meeting, right.
Speaker 3 (01:18:20):
Yeah, she got pulled into what I was told a
pretty serious meeting. So they apologize not going to be
able to join us here. This happened a couple while
you were in the midst of doing the interview in
the last segment, So Maggie gives her apologies the sid
but looking forward to getting her on very soon. Of course,
you talked about the big big game this or match
(01:18:42):
I should say this weekend against number one Nebraska. Boy,
the atmosphere for this match will be problem I mean,
one of the biggest atmospheres for Michigan State volleyball in
quite a while, I would imagine, right.
Speaker 1 (01:18:58):
Yes, yes, and we know what it was like for
the win over Michigan. That was pretty electric there. So
you know, it'll be interesting to see because football is
on the road, hockey is on the road. Hockey with
a very important series number three Spartans against number one
(01:19:19):
Boston University. Yep, so that will be interesting see how
that turns out. And is that game on? Are those
games on television? Those hockey games? Can we see those?
Speaker 3 (01:19:32):
They are on television? I believe on ESPN two both
are on there, so most certainly we'll be able to watch,
I dare say, in two of the most deepest teams
in all of college hockey and two of the most
talented for sure, So no question bu deserves to be
the number one team in the country right now considering
(01:19:53):
what happened last weekend. But my goodness, it's going to
be something to watch. Get your popcorn ready.
Speaker 1 (01:20:00):
I'm sure that they will be on at one North
East Lansing, and knowing Neil Kepke, if he's not going
out to Boston, he'll probably be organizing some sort of
a viewing party. Rob, you have been to a lot
of Michigan State sporting events the last several years. Most
of the home football games, a lot of the home
(01:20:22):
basketball games. You've been a fixture at Michigan State hockey.
You've seen more of that than I have. But you
have also been to Jennison field House for gymnastics. I
know we went with Jay Green and he saw his
first gymnastics meet there. Volleyball, Would you be inclined to
(01:20:47):
go over to Breslan Friday night and see this Nebraska
team that put ninety two thousand, ninety two thousand people
into Memorial Stadium?
Speaker 3 (01:20:59):
Oh? Absolutely, anytime you get to see and to see
what coach Kelsa has been able to do with this
Michigan State team as well. I mean ten and two
nothing to shake a stick at right, I mean, but
most certainly when you get to see one of the
most dominant programs really over the last couple of years, Jack,
when you look at it in any sport, how they've
(01:21:20):
been able to do that. This reminds me of the
old Penn State volleyball teams back. You know that they've
ruled the roost in the Big Ten for quite a
number of years. And Nebraska seems to be on that track.
But yeah, I mean, it's it most certainly will be
a ruckus atmosphere. Jennison for volleyball has done quite well
(01:21:40):
as far as fans go, and that Breslent Center excuse me, Yeah,
so it's and they've done well, uh you know as
far as that goes as well. So absolutely, it's it's
it's I dare say, it's must see, must see.
Speaker 1 (01:21:54):
Sport, to see the best in the sport. And you
want to see Olympic athletes. Yeah, you know some who
are going to be representing this country, including one from
ann Arbor who said no to the University of Michigan
to go to Nebraska. This is your chance and to
(01:22:15):
see how Michigan State stacks up. I don't think there's
anyone outside the MSU volleyball offices. Who thinks that, you know,
they're going to win this, but but it'll be interested
to see how they do.
Speaker 3 (01:22:28):
How they against literally the best the best. Yeah, and
that's what it's.
Speaker 1 (01:22:33):
Nearly unanimous number one in the nation. I think, you
know Texas has got.
Speaker 3 (01:22:37):
But if you're a Michigan state, hey look at if
you're a Michigan state, hey look at you had nothing
to lose. And this is why you come to Michigan
State to play against the best. And so most certainly
the measuring stick. And we'll see what they can do.
And regardless, it will be a again I keep mentioning it,
but it's very true for volleyball, a raucous atmosphere.
Speaker 1 (01:22:56):
Yeah, Kristen Kelsey is not about moral victories, that's not
the way she rolls. But if her program could even
win a SAT here, yeah, you know, and this is
going to be a measuring stick. This is going to
show her athletes.
Speaker 3 (01:23:13):
It's going to take best looks like it's going to
take exactly and how do they and how did they respond?
And they've responded quite well against teams of a little diversity,
but how did they handle the adversity, which they're going
to get from the number one team in the in
the world, in the country. How they handled that adversity
and respond to some things will be very interesting to see.
Speaker 1 (01:23:37):
Ten and zero non conference and four and two in
the Big Ten. So fourteen and two. But for people say, well, yeah, okay,
but it can't happen here this place. You know, it
isn't Nebraska or Penn State or even Minnesota or Wisconsin
for volleyball. I can tell you there was a time.
Speaker 3 (01:23:58):
And you were here, ask about the six.
Speaker 1 (01:24:00):
Thousand and five I believe, yes, and Michigan State was
in the volley four and you know they were as
good as any team in the country. Didn't win the national.
Speaker 3 (01:24:13):
Championship, fell to Penn State, but seven seniors on that team, Jack,
so you know you can't beat experience, and boy, that
was that was most certainly when you look back at
Michigan State women's volleyball, that's most certainly one of the
last statements I believe they made as they've gone through
some transition. But coach kelsay, most certainly on the right track.
(01:24:37):
It's kind of given a little bit of Adam Nightingale
vibes a little bit, right, I mean, that's.
Speaker 1 (01:24:42):
Yeah, And Michigan State did make some noise, to be fair,
about a dozen years ago, but it was when Kristin
Kelsey was a player at Michigan State for Kathy George,
a setter, and you know, you make the Elite eight.
You know, that's that's that's pretty good accomplishment. But you know,
(01:25:02):
the last few years had been a fall off and
Michigan State was not a first division program. So to
come in and you know Michigan State's tied for fifth
in this league.
Speaker 3 (01:25:13):
Well that's just it too. I mean, volleyball for decades,
jack in the Big Ten. I mean, it's the toughest conference.
You could argue has been the toughest conference, and especially
since you got teams from the West Coast now coming
in here. I mean, no question, it's just when you're
at the tough, top top conference in the country, I mean,
it's just hard, you know what I mean, It's very difficult,
(01:25:36):
and that's where the money has been put to for
some of these other schools like Penn State, like Nebraska,
so most certainly it's been a climb, but they are
again for a first year head coach to start out
the way she has. And I know a lot of
people might ask, well, when you look at the non
conference it's maybe not as strong, but for a first
(01:25:58):
year coach trying to find her stef with with the players,
it was a perfect non conference schedule for her, right,
and those other those those tougher quote unquote non conference
schedules will come.
Speaker 1 (01:26:11):
She is Nebraska, Yeah, rob does not have hockey. Uh,
Nebraska Omaha does, but Nebraska Lincoln does not. So that's
money that was available. It's like, Iowa sure does not
have hockey, so that's money that went into wrestling for
many years. Penn State does have hockey, but they didn't
(01:26:31):
put any money into it until very recently a year ago. Yeah,
so you know that was money that went to volleyball.
And and you know, you only have so much. You
have put it so many places, right, so you know,
it's it's kind of like, uh, you've got hockey up
at Minnesota and Wisconsin. They did have some success, a
(01:26:52):
lot of success actually in volleyball. So you know, it's
it's interesting to see how this is all going to
work out with this twenty point five million dollars, because
football is going to want the lion's share of it,
and let's say football gets three quarters of it at
most places, so that's fifteen million. But then you think
about schools like Saint John's and some others that don't
(01:27:16):
even have football, you know, Gonzaga, they're going to be
a tremendous advantage with what they can do and what
they can pay because they're not going to have football there.
But then you have to decide, Okay, then you've got
so you've got five million left, how much of it
goes into basketball, how much of it goes into women's basketball,
(01:27:37):
how much of it goes into you know this gymnastics
get any certainly wants it. What about some of the
other sports that I think they are you know, wrestling
is in that group, and volleyball certainly, So it'll be
a tough decision to decide how to apportion now.
Speaker 3 (01:27:56):
And plus the new facilities, right, I mean Michigan State
coming up with new facilities for for some of the
Olympic sports. You always want to keep up with the
Joneses as far as that goes as well, right, you
want to be at the top of the line as
far as that goes too. So that's what do you
always say, Jack. I feel like it's one of the
most said sayings here on this show. Follow follow yeah,
(01:28:18):
follow the money, fall the Green, And I'm not talking
Jay Green. You can follow Jay Green if you want,
but follow the follow the old Lettuce. If you know
what I mean, I got you.
Speaker 1 (01:28:29):
Yeah, that is That's really what it's all about. So
we'll have to see how that all plays out. I'm
interested in something else tonight, Rob and I'm not talking
about baseball. We'll get to that in a minute, but
it is the Jonathan Smith Show over at one North,
(01:28:54):
and I know Fred's going to be over there.
Speaker 3 (01:28:56):
I don't feel about what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (01:28:59):
It is that know if Channel six will be over
there maybe, but I'm I'm very curious, and not just
because I think I can get some jumbalaya. I'm very
interested to see what the reaction is because when teams
lose attendance at these kinds of things, Sure yeah, sure,
(01:29:20):
and you know now we don't know, we don't know.
I mean, I'm not I'm not trying to get anyone
fired here, but this could be Jonathan Smith's last Coaches show.
Speaker 3 (01:29:33):
Yea, and who would have thought of that? Not even
he was not even a year and a half a coach.
Jack No Ian No, this is yes. But this is
the we always say it. We've heard numerous guests say
it when you talk about football and what it what
it has to do now with everything and all the
sporting events. Really, I mean it's when, now, what have
(01:29:55):
you done for me lately? Literally?
Speaker 1 (01:29:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:29:57):
Literally?
Speaker 1 (01:29:58):
So do you look at the coaching ten years? Okay,
and I'm not talking about the interims. I'm not talking
about Morris Watson and Harlan Barnett, but after Duffy Doherty,
you had three years with Denny Stoles and he had
a lot of success, but it was terminated by an
NCAA investigation which today would not have resulted in anything
(01:30:21):
close to a three year no Bowl, no television band.
I mean it would have been much much, much less
than that. Would have been some recruiting restrictions and a
fine and some other things, maybe a show cause hearing
for a couple of coaches, and then four years for
Darryl Rogers and he left to go to Arizona State
because he wanted to get back to warm weather mostly
(01:30:46):
and five years for Nick Saban, who left largely because
he couldn't agree on what day it was with the
university president and Peter McPherson, and then Bobby Williams's tenure,
and he was there two and a half years and
actually is the only Michigan State coach to be two
(01:31:09):
and zero in Bowl games. Amazing, but two and a
half years, that was the shortest stint. John L. Smith
four years, Mel Tucker two years and two games. It
(01:31:29):
is amazing to think that we could be talking about
a year and a half or a year and two
thirds the tenure for Jonathan Smith. If you had told
me the day he was hired that he would be
around a shorter time than Bobby Williams and Mel Tucker.
Speaker 3 (01:31:51):
Yeah, I wouldn't believe you. I wouldn't have believed you.
I'd bet you need to win, and you need to
win now literally now now. Well, actually I would even
say you needed to win yesterday. You don't. You don't
even have you don't even have time to a future,
to look into the future. You gotta And we hear
coaches say it all the time, right, I mean, we're
(01:32:11):
just focused on on this game rights right in front
of us. You know, we can't look ahead, and it's
so true. I mean, they they're talking about the schedule,
but they're also talking about you know, their job. Skew.
You gotta, you got, you just gotta. It's it's unfair
in some circumstances. But this is again, sound like a
broken record, but this is the world we live in,
(01:32:32):
and this is what money does. This is what part
of it, what money does to accelerate things right or wrong.
Speaker 1 (01:32:43):
Yeah, and we listened to Time as though, uh go
on and on and on about the evils of social media. Right, well, yeah,
so social media for a coach is being paid seven
and a half million dollars a year. You know, they're
big boys.
Speaker 4 (01:32:58):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (01:33:00):
I understand comes with the territory. And maybe maybe you
could say the same thing about athletes now who are
being compensated. But still, you know a lot of these
i'm gonna call them kids they're not twenty yet are
being ripped. And uh, the psychological impact on some of
(01:33:23):
this stuff. You know, you can say, well, you know,
just tell them turn off their phone, so tell them
to don't pay any attention to it, don't read it.
But there's still going to s.
Speaker 3 (01:33:31):
Yeah somehow, Yeah, easier said than them.
Speaker 1 (01:33:37):
So for Michigan State's players who are now being told
that they're losers and implied that they're quitters, but that
they're in a lot of fans' minds workless. You know,
maybe some some of the same fans who would be
waiting in line for autographs if they were doing great
(01:33:58):
now think that. You know, these these guys are are
disgusting and disgraceful. I've heard something said about Michigan State
football players in the last couple of weeks that I
wouldn't want said about my worst enemy.
Speaker 3 (01:34:13):
Yeah, it's a shame. I mean, it's unfortunately. Again, it's
part of the world that we live in, and you
have to manage through that, whether you know, I mean
you could. It's easier said than done to say, you
know what, don't even pay attention to it because it's everywhere.
It's everywhere, these these these these athletes go right, you
(01:34:33):
can't you can't ultimately escape it.
Speaker 1 (01:34:36):
And I understand this too, Rob You know, Uh, tickets
are expensive, seat licenses are yes, they always want you
to to contribute, they want your money. That's it's hard
to do. You know the situation when right now for
a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (01:34:51):
Well they have to choose. Well, they have to choose, right,
you can't choose. It's not like way back in the
old olden days, where hey, you know, I can afford
a basketball ticket, and I can afford a hockey ticket,
and I can afford them.
Speaker 1 (01:35:04):
Tickets worth three or four dollars. Yeah, it was very.
Speaker 3 (01:35:06):
Very very different, very different.
Speaker 1 (01:35:09):
So I get it. And if you choose not to partake, participate, enjoy.
Speaker 3 (01:35:15):
That's fine.
Speaker 1 (01:35:16):
That's your choice.
Speaker 3 (01:35:17):
That's fine.
Speaker 1 (01:35:17):
But I don't think it's necessary to try to be
a keyboard warrior.
Speaker 3 (01:35:22):
To go out to visit, to purposely go on the
internet and like you said, be a key keyboard warrior
where you don't know what these guys are going through
or athletes. I'll just say, in general, I think is
pretty much. I mean I would there say gutless to
somebody that and then would be two faced, but again
(01:35:44):
and would be would want to have there be first
in line for their autograph so they can go sell
it on eBay. Yeah right, I mean it's ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (01:35:53):
When you hear that a quarterback is in the last
week since Saturday, Okay, I have heard people say red
comments that so and so is trash worthless. Why is
he even here those kinds of things. And trust me
(01:36:18):
on this, okay, or all of our listeners, I want
you to hear this. Trust me. Every player who is
out at practice, busting his ass at six am, sweat equity,
playing hurt, it means more to him than it does
to you. Every coach whose livelihood is on the line here, yes,
(01:36:41):
whose kids have to hear this stuff at school, Yes,
it means more to them than it does.
Speaker 3 (01:36:47):
To you, and it ever will to a fan. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:36:50):
Yeah, if you don't like it, I get it. I understand.
And frustrating that you have to be there whin lose, lose, lose,
lose or lose and you can't.
Speaker 3 (01:37:00):
And you can be frustrated, We're all I mean, you
can be frustrated.
Speaker 1 (01:37:03):
You can even be apathetically.
Speaker 3 (01:37:05):
Yeah, you can even be angry if you want. We're
not telling you not to be that, We're not telling
you not to feel. But there's a way to handle that.
And going after one of the athletes on the internet
or through social media is not the right or a
coach or whoever it is, is not the right way
to do it.
Speaker 1 (01:37:22):
No, all, right, last thing before we bring in Steve Grimzell.
I will take a break, and.
Speaker 3 (01:37:28):
Yeah, we got to get Steve. He's got to pay
our bills, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (01:37:31):
He's in the car, Yeah, on the way to South
Bend to officiate a soccer game. Shock here, fifty one
fifty one years.
Speaker 3 (01:37:40):
I'm going to be I'm going to be fifty years
old next week. And he's been He's been officiating officiating
for fifty one years.
Speaker 1 (01:37:48):
Yes, ie go soccer, longer than you've been alive.
Speaker 3 (01:37:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:37:52):
So before we do that, I need to get a
prediction from you on baseball here. Okay, these teams that
lost a pair.
Speaker 3 (01:38:01):
Of home games, unbelievable, talking about.
Speaker 1 (01:38:04):
Toronto and Milwaukee, are they dead? Do either of them
win twice on the road and play another game this
season in their ballpark?
Speaker 3 (01:38:18):
They do? Neither of them win twice on the road.
Speaker 1 (01:38:21):
Okay, So you're saying that we were going to have
a Seattle LA World Series.
Speaker 3 (01:38:26):
I'm saying it. I'm saying it right here, right now. Yes, yeah,
all right, yeah, all right.
Speaker 1 (01:38:31):
I think you're right, but I'm not sure that one
of them won't.
Speaker 3 (01:38:35):
St I mean, who, who, who's there? Who would be
the one? I mean Toronto Toronto. You think Toronto would
take one.
Speaker 1 (01:38:42):
No, I'm saying they would. I say they could. Okay,
I don't think Milwaukee can win two out of three.
Speaker 3 (01:38:47):
And Dodgers, no, no, no, I agree with that. But
I man, I mean, and you can talk about momentum
all you want, whether you believe in that or not.
But boy, oh boy, Seattle whatever they have, yeah, yeah,
I mean, it's something you can call whatever the hell
you want, but it's don't.
Speaker 1 (01:39:03):
Get the trade deadline that Seattle is going to be
in the World Series.
Speaker 3 (01:39:06):
You did tell me that, You did say that.
Speaker 1 (01:39:08):
That drum. That's one of the few things in my
life I've gotten. Right, all right, We'll be right back and.
Speaker 3 (01:39:13):
Go check out some great Go check out some great
volleyball this weekend. It's the only thing. Yeah, excuse me, Friday, Yeah,
go check out some volleyball fans out there.
Speaker 1 (01:39:22):
All right. And if you want to see Jonathan Smith
and you have anything I want to say to him,
your chance today or.
Speaker 3 (01:39:30):
Just have some great ju jump a lie at one
normal how about that? How about that?
Speaker 1 (01:39:34):
Don't order it before I get there, because if they're out,
I'm gonna be upset. All right, we will be right
back with Steve Grinzell. Coming up on the drive with Jack.
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(01:42:40):
It is a drive with Jack the Spotlight Radio Network.
Jack Eblin here with my producer of Boston Rob Rob.
A lot of nostalgia talking about coaching changes today and
want to welcome in someone who's been through quite a
few of these. Maybe hasn't seen all of them that
(01:43:00):
I have, but you know he's got to be up
there close to double digit coaches for Michigan State. Want
to welcome in Steve Grinzell. You remember his work for
the Grand Rapids Press, for Booth News Service, m Live, MSU,
Spartans dot com and probably you've seen him on a
soccer field near you. Grands How are you?
Speaker 4 (01:43:21):
I'm doing good?
Speaker 1 (01:43:22):
Jack, You're on your way to a game in South
Bend in year fifty one.
Speaker 4 (01:43:28):
Right, Yes, I am going to only Cross College, which
is right across the street from Notre Dame.
Speaker 1 (01:43:37):
Wow, yes, I know where that is. Yes. So when
you think about all of the Michigan State teams you
have covered beginning in nineteen eighty six, did you ever
think we would see an MSU coach who could be
fired after nineteen or twenty games and not for wrong.
Speaker 4 (01:44:05):
Yeah? I don't. I guess we've We've covered coaches in
the hot seat for sure. It never seemed to be
Michigan State's mo O too uh terminate a coach during
the season. They seem to have a standard against that
(01:44:26):
of they have well, right, and he's the one that
certainly jumps out front. Whether that was performance on the
field based as more than you know, his uh management
of the team, or his his loss of control of
(01:44:49):
the team. You know, I don't know if if he
had been winning, that wouldn't have that it still might
have occurred because there was such a social cultural disruption
within the walls of the football building. So whether he
(01:45:12):
would have survived regardless, I don't know. But there was
a lot more going on there than just not producing
on the field.
Speaker 1 (01:45:22):
Yeah. So for fans who still think that Michigan State
is the school and the powerhouse it was in the
mid sixties. We have seen other than a blitpierer there
with George Purlis or Nick Saban and six amazing years
(01:45:45):
with Mark D'Antonio. This has been a five hundred program
for close to sixty years now, grins, and five hundred
isn't saying much when you get to pick three nine
conference games and you've got a lot of mac opponents
and Prairie views in there. Uh, you know, this is
(01:46:05):
not like a sudden departure from the norm. Mark d'antonio's
stint was the departure from the norm.
Speaker 4 (01:46:16):
Yeah, when you look back at Michigan State's history, there
seems to be I don't know, split personality, multiple personalities,
schizophrenia in the DNA of this program. If you go
back to the very beginning with pretty much, I mean
the beginning of Michigan State's ascension to a national prominence,
(01:46:42):
which came under Biggie mund You know, he had built
it into a national power, won national championships, and Duffy
took over and continued that momentum. That's yes, But you know,
(01:47:04):
after the sixty six season when Michigan State was mentioned
in the same breath as the Alabama's and Texas's and
Southern cols and every Notre Dame, you name it. I mean,
they were right there in that here group. Then Duffy
didn't continue the momentum. It slipped away. They foundered for years.
(01:47:30):
They got it back a little bit under Darryl Rogers,
couldn't keep the momentum really until George Peerlis came in
and had a five year planned, delivered on the planned,
delivered championships, national rankings, Rose.
Speaker 1 (01:47:50):
Bowl twelve years, Grants was sixty eight, sixty seven and five.
Speaker 4 (01:47:57):
Yeah, well us for whatever reason, George didn't maintain the momentum, right,
you know, they didn't continue, and I you know, maybe
it's hard for a place like Michigan State to do it.
You know, they don't have the name brand of Michigan
or Ohio State or or any of the big schools
(01:48:18):
that suffer these lulls better than others.
Speaker 1 (01:48:22):
You know.
Speaker 4 (01:48:22):
And then Nick comes in, and he certainly had the
program in the right direction. It wasn't like they were
winning everything in sight. But had he been retained or
they would have kept him, I don't think there's any
doubt that the program would have been you know, winning
in a very high level, right and then post Nick, yeah,
(01:48:47):
and you know, arguably one of the best teams of
the country, you know, a National championship caliber team, you know,
and then that goes by the wayside. The momentum wanes,
and then Mark D'Antonio comes in and does a phenomenal job,
and it really kind of developed the identity of the
(01:49:10):
program of being one that could develop players and uh
overachieve and over and then you know, all due respect
to Mark, he did a phenomenal job, but then the
momentum waned again. They couldn't maintain that momentum or whatever. Yes,
(01:49:31):
so that just seems to be the stock market ticket
ticker on Michigan State football. It goes up, it goes down,
it stays down, it rallies, you know, it's uh, it's
it's got to be hard to be in a Michigan
State fan seeing that the potential is there. They have
(01:49:52):
reached the potential, they've made it to the playoffs, they've
had they've been in the National championship conversation, and then
you know they're back to being mediocre five hundred or whatever.
So that's just Michigan State football. You know, in some
ways better than most because of what they've proved they
(01:50:15):
are capable of doing, and then more frustrating than most
because they just drop off the face of the earth.
Speaker 1 (01:50:23):
And every time there's a change, grins. You know. I said,
this is gonna be my fourteenth head coach. When it happens, wow,
you see something different. When Duffy retired, they looked at
Barry Switzer, nearly hired him, Johnny Majors, Lee Corso, and
(01:50:45):
the fourth candidate was a guy They picked Denny Stoltz
who'd been at Alma one Big there had been a
defensive coordinator briefly for Duffy, and so they went that route,
the smallest college route. Then they said, well that didn't work.
So they went out and got an offensive wizard from
(01:51:08):
the West Coast and that was a lot of fun
while it lasted, but but it could never sustain. And
he's still shivering the entire time. I'd never seen anybody
shiver in seventy five degree weather more than Darrell Rodgers.
Then they said, okay, well, you know, we got to
find somebody, and I think they were scared by George
(01:51:31):
and they took fifty seven year old Muddy Waters. Muddy
said he thought that was his middle name, fifty seven
year old Muddy Waters. And he was there three years.
That was pretty much an abject failure. Then they went
to George and that was pretty good for a while.
And then of course the headlines with the battle with
(01:51:51):
the president administration, the two jobs and everything that went
with that was led to the undoing. So you can
go through all these hires Grins. I mean, even when
uh Ron Mason could not get Marvin Lewis to commit
and wound up on recommendation of someone in the office
(01:52:14):
staffer to hire John L. Smith, you know, and then
they had the search and they got it right with Antonio.
But when that failed and it was uh you know,
he left at the worst possible time. They weren't no options.
(01:52:35):
And Bill Beakman was the a D at that point.
Alan Haller was his second command, and they wound up
with Mel Tucker didn't get Luke Fickel Wisconsin wishes they
had and we know what happened with Mel. And then
(01:52:57):
Jonathan and he was Haller's guy. I mean, he did
a full press on this and it was a one
man search and thought that he had just found a
coach who was going to be D'Antonio two point zero,
and here we are, you know, eighteen games in and
you know, people are already putting for sales signs in
(01:53:17):
front of his house. So, you know, what is the
answer for Michigan State? What do they do?
Speaker 4 (01:53:27):
You know, we've both spent a lot of time and
brain cells debating, you know, what does Michigan State need?
You know, I think some of the if you do
the if you would plot of graph and look at
(01:53:47):
success based on backround, you know, and then included background
and heritage and all those kinds of things. You know,
it seems like the guys that do best or have
had success at Michigan State have been kind of homegrown
entities that were into the program in some way, shape
(01:54:11):
or form, not necessarily Michigan State grands but our former players,
but maybe coach there were ingrained into the community, the culture,
understood the the foibles of Michigan State and the skeletons
in the closets and all those kinds of things, and
(01:54:34):
you know, those have had the best success. I always
shuddered when they these searches would become far flung, and
you know, let's get the guy from what was his name,
Botelli or he was the hot number. And I'm like,
why would you want a West Coast guy to come
to the Midwest and drop him in here and think
(01:54:57):
he can succeed? I mean, you know, and it's different now, granted,
but back then, it was like, how is this guy
gonna recruit Detroit? You know, how is he going to
get relationships with the public school league and the Catholic
League and you know, and that was really important back
(01:55:18):
when recruiting high school prospects was number one, two and three.
Now it's a lot different, I grant you that, but
I still think Michigan State does better when it stays
inside the family. So who are the candidates? You know,
(01:55:42):
a name that I have not heard mentioned ever, at
least in a very long time. We're in the context
of any recent searches is Pat Sherman. And I don't
understand why he isn't someone that wouldn't be a good fit. Well,
you're abound a.
Speaker 1 (01:56:02):
College football head coach. He has had two failed tenures
in the National Football League and he's now the offensive
coordinator at Colorado. And you know, there were times when
I think that it just wasn't a good fit. He'd
just gotten an NFL job or something, you know, so
he had a commitment at timing never seem to line
(01:56:23):
up for Pat, you know. But there are some other
names you mentioned, and you know, we talk about far
flung Jay Bats, guy he hired at Georgia Tech, Brent Key.
You know, he's got he's got them up to number
twelve in the nation, undefeated, and so you know, he's
a hot name. He's gonna have a lot of options.
(01:56:46):
And then you think about other Midwest guys grins, and
you know, I think PJ. Fleck, who's won double digit
games at Minnesota, that's hard to do. He would be
happy to entertain a job back in Michigan with more potential,
I think than they have with the Gophers. Now. It
doesn't mean Minnesota won't wax in Michigan State on November first,
(01:57:07):
But and you think about you know, I don't think
they're going to try to make another run at Luke Fickel,
although Wisconsin would probably drive him to the airport right now.
But I have three other names here. I want to
run by you and get your take on. Okay, A
lot of people think that Matt Rule is going to
(01:57:29):
go from Nebraska back home to Penn State where he played.
That leaves a job at Nebraska, and there's talk that,
you know, maybe James Franklin will go there just be
a trade Nebraska and Penn State. But if you were
in Michigan State, would you want James Franklin? Would you
be interested in? Go ahead? Would you would you want
(01:57:50):
James Franklin?
Speaker 4 (01:57:52):
He does not do much for me. I know, I'm
not a You know, he had all the resources in
the world in a blue blood program and he couldn't
deliver there. I don't what makes anybody think he's in
a delivery at Michigan State although they are both lang
(01:58:14):
Grand colleges.
Speaker 1 (01:58:15):
That's right, well, and he has had five eleven win
seasons and last year he was with one play, one
bad throw by Drew Aller being in the National Championship game.
What about two other Pats, not Pat Shermer, What about
Pat Nardoozi who was winning again at pitt Seems he wins, wins, big, loses, wins,
(01:58:36):
keeps his job. Do you think that he's viable or
or Pat Fitzgerald, who's largely been exonerated. Now the scandal,
hazing scandal at Northwestern. It cost him his job and
made him one hundred million dollars richer. You know, he
talks about wanting to get in. He's still a very
young guy. He's only fifty years old. He was the
(01:58:57):
youngest coach in college football when he took over that program.
Fits we know has a ton of energy. I can
still hear him screaming go Cats every time he gave
a speech. Would you like to see what Fitzgerald could
do here? He didn't turn down the University of Michigan twice?
Or would you like to try to find the Tom
(01:59:19):
Izzo of college football? And everyone says the guy is
the best recruiter in the country. He's now the offensive
coordinator at Ohio State. You'd have to wait a long
time because I think the Buckeys are going to be
in this playoff to the end. But he could be
a two time national champion. And that's Brian Hartline. So
who's the needle for you?
Speaker 4 (01:59:40):
I'm a big pet in ardoozy Sam. I loved covering him.
I think he's you know, I don't know if he
wants to come back. I mean he's home now, right,
So and I don't think. I don't know that Michigan
State ever. I think he was here. I think he
(02:00:01):
was all in, But I don't think this was a
destination job for him. So I would make a phone
call to see if things have changed. But you know, yeah,
call him up and see what he has to say.
And I think he could get the job.
Speaker 1 (02:00:20):
And he is.
Speaker 4 (02:00:20):
Totally the guy that translates at Michigan State, you know,
kind of a blue collar guy, knows to the grindstone,
a little bit gruff yep papist Gerald I think is
a terrific coach. I think he would be ultramotivated to
work his tail off and do whatever he could to
(02:00:43):
have success in the Big ten with a Michigan State.
And I think Michigan State lines up well in terms
of resources and facilities and everything. I think they check
our rebox. Why wouldn't he want to come here, you know,
And if Michigan's hat at them and like them, you know,
that's a pretty good endorsement headline. You know. The recruiting
(02:01:10):
is the name of the game, and I think knowing
how to do it in this new environment would have
to be a number one consideration. I think that's why
the guy at Georgia Tech is probably someone that you
would want to look at too, because you've got to
understand this system and how to make it work. And
(02:01:33):
you're not going to give a five year plan like
George Burlish. You know, you've got to produce right away
and get talented. And the other thing is that you know,
I don't I don't have a reading on the donor
fatigue at Michigan State, but I got to believe that
guys that say, Okay, I'm going to pony up the
(02:01:55):
money to pay some kid to come in here as
a freshman or get him as a sophomore or and
they're not going to be there when they're a junior
or senior. I mean, you know, I hear a lot
of donors are really watching that now in terms of jeez,
I invested in this guy. Uh he's developing. Oh now
(02:02:17):
he's going to Mississippi State or Arizona State or wherever.
So those are all considerations that are in the business office,
the AD's office, and you know, find a guy that
understands that the best and as a good coach.
Speaker 1 (02:02:37):
Grant, thanks so much for your input on this. I'm
sure we'll talk about this again, and not too many
yellow cards tonight.
Speaker 4 (02:02:45):
Okay, I'll try not to, you know, and I hope. I
don't know what John Jonathan Smith's future is. Uh, you know,
we're already kind of burying him here, and uh, I
don't know. Maybe there's a chance something changes. But I
(02:03:06):
feel for these guys. Yeah, you know, I guess I
just wouldn't want someone that you can throw a bunch
of money at and they say they're coming. I think
they gotta find first and foremost, they gotta find someone
that wants to be at Michigan State. That's number one
with a bullet.
Speaker 1 (02:03:24):
You know what. One of the best jobs in the
country is grants besides the ones that we've had. A
fired college football coach at a major program. Jonathan Smith
is in line for a thirty two buyout.
Speaker 4 (02:03:39):
Yeah, yeah, I don't feel too sorry.
Speaker 1 (02:03:42):
No, let's not have a benefit for the guy. You know.
It's all right, Thanks so much. We'll talk to you soon.
I want to thank all of our guests today, rob
starting with Steven Brooks. He's with us every Wednesday or
almost every Wednesday, talking Michigan State football and basketball, and
(02:04:05):
he's pretty definitive about his take on this and doesn't
see any way out now. A lot of people agree
with him. After the UCLA game, that was a point
of no return, even though there were a lot of
people who didn't want Jonathan Smith here from the beginning
and it would have taken an awful lot to win
him over. Now that seems to be almost impossible. Let's
(02:04:27):
see if he can prove everybody wrong. Even that might
not be enough. I want to thank Bill Better, long
time sportswriter, one of the best in the Midwest, where
the Indianapolis Star worked for the Indiana Sports Commission for
years After that, I use season ticket holder filling us
in on what the Kurt Signetti here is all about.
(02:04:48):
And Steve Grinzell MSHU historian and author see tomorrow. Everyone
have a great night.
This is it right here.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Combining a team of reporters, columnists and commentators, Are you serious?
Jack Ebling has brought thought provoking discussion.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
What are you doing?
Speaker 3 (00:18):
That's a coaching The same opinion.
Speaker 4 (00:21):
Customer is the one who decides when the future gets here?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Oh no, check the report?
Speaker 4 (00:29):
Are you kidding me?
Speaker 5 (00:31):
Jack?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Games next and overall infotainment.
Speaker 6 (00:34):
I'll think Kim Marva, who is done?
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Grease God to.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Coming at you?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Quiet please, and exactly fifteen seconds we'll be on the air.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Thanks, big fella.
Speaker 5 (00:45):
Don't you ever come back here again?
Speaker 1 (00:47):
No arguments. Those are called ashtans.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
So buckle up.
Speaker 7 (00:50):
You talking to me?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
It's time for the Drive with Jack Ebling.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah, for some reason or another, who signed a little caller.
Great afternoon been Michigan and beyond, and welcome to the
Drive with Jack the Spotlight Radio Network. Jack Ebling here
with my producer today Boston rob sixty two degrees and
mostly sunny here in mid Michigan. Absolutely gorgeous day. Enjoy
(01:19):
these while you can get them. Oh, we have the
baseball playoffs continuing now. The road teams won games one
and two of these championship series. Only three teams have
lost the first two home games and come back and won.
So that means the good things for Seattle and the
(01:40):
Dodgers most likely. But we have a lot of football
to talk about. Basketball too on the horizon at Michigan
State Media Day tomorrow, but most of the attention right
now is focused on football, as it should be in
mid October. And when you look at where Michigan State
is a lot of speculation the future of Jonathan Smith.
(02:06):
Spartans are twenty seven and a half point underdogs twenty
seven and a half at Indiana. That is the largest
negative spread ever against the Hoosiers for the Spartans, and
I think most people would be beyond stunned if Michigan
State came back from Bloomington with the win. Then they
(02:28):
entertain Michigan and then they have four more games in November.
Want to welcome in Steven Brooks twenty four to seven
Sports Spartan tailgate premium site does a great job covering
MSU football and basketball. Steven, I'll cut right to the chase.
How many more games does Jonathan Smith coach at Michigan State.
(02:52):
Is it one more, two more, six more meaning the
end of the season, or more than six.
Speaker 5 (03:02):
I mean, I don't have that answer. I don't know
if anybody does, but my gut is that probably two
and then I think there'll be some real I think
after two is a potential pivot point. I guess is
what we'll say, and then you'd be going, you know,
I don't think it makes sense if you're going to
(03:23):
do it, is it's probably gonna be bad this weekend.
I don't think it makes sense to throw an interim
out there for Michigan unless you kind of want to
absolve everybody from that and just say, hey, this doesn't
really count getting out of you know, kind of throwing
an excuse like over over the top of it. But yeah,
I could see it after these next two, I guess
if these don't go well, but there's all there are.
(03:44):
Also these next two are big opportunities on the other
side of it. I don't think anybody expects them to
go well, but they will be big opportunities nonetheless, to
change the momentum, to change the messaging. If they were
to get one or geez, somehow two in the next
two weeks.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
What's more likely that Michigan State will lose by fifty
three points the way Illinois did against the Hoosiers, and
that this will be the end for Jonathan Smith, maybe
he'll be fired on the tarmac, or that they pull
it together against a Michigan team that has some serious questions.
(04:23):
They did lose to USC by more than Michigan State did,
and back here everything goes right kind of the way
it did last year against Iowa, and Michigan State beats
the Wolverines, which is more likely.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
I mean, I don't I think the first one can
happen and then the second one can. I don't think
there are two different realities necessary. I mean, I think
they can get waxed by Indiana, doesn't necessarily get fired,
and then they could come back, I guess theoretically, and
we'll put it all together and have that day. Yeah,
Michigan doesn't look like the same type of team that
we thought for much of the offseason. Penn State obviously
(05:01):
is not going to be that same sort of challenge
when when they get to that game, so it looks
a little different. I mean, I'm not gonna bet on
either of those. I'm sorry that they win either of
these games. Come out and get that win against Michigan,
but it's it's the more likely I guess, of the two.
Then they somehow compete. I think this weekend at Indiana,
I guess. But yeah, they both. You know, it seems
(05:22):
unlikely that it's gonna turn out that way. I mean,
and in one sense though, you know, not to be
total doom in glue. Like I said, these are two
games that if you win one of them, you will
change the narrative at least for a little bit. I
will be enough to say Smith and these guys' jobs.
I don't know, but they are two big opportunities, and
I do think there are two games that sort of
keep everything in place for a little bit. I mean,
(05:45):
they're two big carrots. You look at what UCLA did
to Penn State and how they all sort of rallied
together for that game. It's kind of sad that we're
comparing Mission State to that. But my point is, when
you're going on the road to face unbeaten number three,
I think that can be a glue that can keep
everybody in line for a little bit longer and say, hey,
let's go give them our best shot. We're back into
(06:06):
a corner. Let's go see what we can do against
these guys. And then Michigan's is a natural there's so
much natural motivation, so much emotion, you don't have to
do a lot to get ready for that. You're going
to want to go play that game regardless. So you've
got two more weeks I think where everyone's going to
be fairly locked in, fairly bought in. But if those
two go bad, what you know, there's these carrots on
(06:26):
the end of the sticks. They go away after these
next two games, and then you might see splintering and
looking out for yourself and opting out. You might see
all those types of things, especially if there's a formal
coaching decision. But I do think that for these two
weeks it kind of helps that while they're in this
turbulent time, you got a big carrot this week to
look at, say hey, everybody, lock in, let's focus up
(06:47):
the thing isn't you know we're not sunk yet. Let's
go try and try and take a bite out of Indiana.
And then Michigan will be a similar deal where people
will still I think, be locked in for the most part,
focused behind the scenes. So I think there's a little
natural glue that keeps us all together for at least
a couple more weeks, even if the performances aren't great.
I think the mentality, the locker room, the spirits, that
(07:07):
type of stuff sort of has some natural forces sort
of keeping them aligned for now, Stephen.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
They say that once the public has made up its
mind and they have either labeled you a saint, then
you have a lot of chips to play. You have
a lot of wiggle room before you fall out of that.
But even harder is when the public has made up
his mind that you don't belong, you can't get it done.
(07:34):
It is very difficult to change minds and reverse that perception.
Let's say Michigan State fools a lot of people and
wins one of these next two games, and then wins
two of the last four. We're talking about at Minnesota
home for Penn State. Very different program than it was
(07:55):
a month ago at Iowa and Maryland and at Ford Field.
Let's say Michigan State can win two of those four
and go three and three the second half of the season,
just as it did the first half, be six and six,
skank into a lower tier bowl and win that game
(08:16):
and be seven and six. Do you think anyone would
change their minds about Jonathan Smith. Would they say this
is terrible, This just means we're going to have more
of this crap. Or would they say, you know what,
this is kind of what happened at Oregon State and
then he took the worst program in the country and
they won twenty five games the next three years. What
(08:38):
do you think the public would do.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
I think it would lead to a few saying Okay,
I'm willing to give him a little more time, but
not enough of a dent to really calm things and
to really cool the temperature. I mean, like we've discussed
so many people. If you look at the pie chart,
a not insignificant section of that guy was out on
him basically the day he got hired. You know, a
(09:02):
decent come out there. Another big chunk was out after
last year and they get smacked by Indiana, smacked by
Ohio State, smacked by Oregon, smacked by Rutgers with a
Bowl game on the line. That was another big chunk
of people that moved out then. And so I just
don't think I really think Jack, to be honest with you,
I mean, they probably have to go five and one
(09:23):
down this the second half. I think to win back
even a decent chunk of people. I really do, because
even if if you get one of these wins, it'll
just be, well, you only did it one time. You know,
look at all the other bad things that have stacked up,
all the other winnable games that were lost. It just
there's so much bad juju on one side of the
equation that it's hard for me to see the equation
(09:45):
balancing out.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
You know.
Speaker 5 (09:47):
And again, Michigan, I don't think it is a you know,
they're not a top tier Michigan team. People would feel good,
they'd love to make fun of Michigan, but it wouldn't
be like, ah, look what we accomplished. It would be
look at you you know, it wouldn't be look at Michigan.
State in is really the big prize, And it's just
a really hard one to try to square right now
in terms of how they're going to get that done
with how Indiana is humming on both sides, their statistical
(10:12):
you know, numbers on both sides that they don't have
a clear and obvious weakness. I mean, they talk about momentum,
They have that to the end degree right now. Belief
they have a coach who's going to want to run
it up and rub it in. You know this, I
just it's really hard to picture any sort of good
vibe coming out of this weekend specifically, and it feels
like the one that they have to have to really
(10:32):
change the narrative because I would give you a little
juice going into Michigan, and yeah, Michigan I think is
a beatable team on your home field. I mean, gosh,
if you were to somehow go to and Oh this week,
maybe that could shift things. But I just think so
much damage has been done. So many folks gave Jon
and Smith a short leash to begin with, which we
discussed I think was pretty unfair in a lot of ways,
quite honestly, but it is where it is. We're here now,
(10:54):
and I mean the UCLA game was the game that
turned me, you know, and I guess I wrote afterwards
like I no longer believe that it's going to work,
you know. And it's a bummer to say on a
lot of different fronts because I think he's a good guy.
I think he's a good coach in a lot of ways.
I have genuine respect for the job he did at
Oregon State, and I think people should too. But like
you said, once the masses have turned, I just don't
(11:16):
think they're going to turn back fair or not, and
I do think there's some unfairness to it, but I
do think the reality is most people are out now,
and in the UCLA game, broke the you know as
the straw that broke the back there. And I can't
blame him. That was a horrible, horrible loss and an
unacceptable result in performance against a team like that for
(11:36):
a staff and his position. So I get it, and yeah,
I just like I said last week, I can't go back.
And I thought if I lost that game, this staff
would sort of be in an irrecoverable position, and yeah,
that's where we are, I think.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
And I think Stephen, it wasn't just losing that game,
as bad as that was a seven and a half
point favorite on homecoming. It wasn't just the point spread,
which was stunning twenty five points. You don't normally see that.
You don't see a team that's more than a touchdown
underdog win by twenty five very often. It was the
(12:10):
way Michigan State played so lackluster, so listless. A lot
of people thought that they had given up, including jalen Berger,
former Spartan, who came back and scored three touchdowns and
said as much after the game. So when you have
that hanging over your head, it's like, you know, you're
the life raft they've shown they've just thrown you has
(12:31):
sprung a leak, and I don't know what you do.
I said to someone Sunday night, Stephen, when I saw
the points spread, So what chance do you give Michigan
State of going to Bloomington and shocking the world? And
the guy says less than one percent? I said, okay,
So let's say that less than one percent happens and
Michigan State beats the number three ranked Hoosiers. Then what
(12:56):
And he said, then I'll say, well, if they're good
enough to do that, why did they play the way
they did the rest of the year. So there's really
nothing he can do. He's going to be hit with
something either way if this happens. Is there an advantage
(13:16):
to doing something the middle of the season. Obviously some
schools think there is. They're shopping now, they're not signing people,
but they're certainly negotiating and trying to identify their candidate.
We know that Alan Haller was doing this during the
season when he knew what had happened, he'd already he'd
(13:39):
had a long time to do it with mel Tucker
out early in the season, but he knew he wasn't
going to retain Harlan Barnett. Harlan Barnett didn't know that.
He thought he was going to interview for the job.
They after the Penn State game, but Jonathan Smith had
already agreed in principle, and Alan Hallard been tracking him
for a couple of month months. So how much of
(14:02):
an advantage is that, if any, to pull on the
plug and saying, okay, let's get on with it, let's
start the search as soon as we can and get
out ahead of the masses.
Speaker 5 (14:15):
Yeah, I've thought about that a little bit, you know
what I mean, Because once you do that, like it's
not like, oh, let's see what the indrom can do
for us, maybe we can get a spark here, like
you're you're pulling the plug, as you said, it would
be all about I guess at this point, it's trying
to sort of keep up with the Jones and stay
competitive with the other openings, you know, because some of
these have been open for a while, and you know,
(14:38):
I don't know how much advantage, but I'm sure there
is an advantage of time and conversations and whatnot. You now,
some things the coaches you're gonna want to talk to
are in the middle of their season still and you're
not gonna be able to get too much done, but
you can get a lot of homework done, some background
checks and background info on folks. So yeah, in that respect,
like when Penn State is open, they're gonna have a
long time to get there done. Virginia, this stuff happens fast.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Jonathan Smith, that decision was basically done before Oregon State
had finished its season. Despite what Jonathan told people out there,
you know, he was certainly in discussions. And it wasn't
long after that last game against Penn State that Michigan
State had his new coach. That didn't all happen in
(15:24):
two days. So let's say after the Michigan game, Steven,
Michigan State loses both of these games, and they decide
that this has to happen. And we've seen this at
Michigan State before. It happened after a loss to Michigan
forty nine to nothing, forty nine to three. I believe
it was back in two thousand and two, it was
(15:44):
the end of Bobby Williams and Morris Watts coached the
rest of the season. Let's say this happens, who is
the interim coach for Michigan State.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
I don't know which way they'll go. I know the
way I would. I don't know if this is how
they would do it, but I would go with Courtney Hawkins.
He makes the most sense to me as the least
connected to Jonathan Smith, the most connected to the program,
you know, and could sort of get rally that sort
of you know, pulling the heartstrings a little bit win
one for the alma mater. He knows what it's about
(16:18):
and everything, and he's been a head coach, obviously only
at the high school level, but he at least sort
of has that understanding of what that role is and
everything that's on the plate. I don't think it can
be a coordinator because I don't think he want to
shove all that extra onto their plate when they're trying
to come up with game plans. And it's not like
you have sort of a bis Pogey type as an
(16:39):
analyst waiting around, you know, an old, old stage that's
been a head coach or whatever been around the block
that you can tap on. So to me, Courtney Hawkins
is the smart pick, and if it were to come
down to that, I'd be curious to see it because
I don't think he'd do a terrible job, to be honest, either,
We'll just give him the circumstances. But that's who I pick.
I don't know how they would do it. You know,
I think bonif as the associate head coach on paper,
(17:02):
but again, do you want to turn to the right
hand man of the guy you just fired? Necessarily A
lot of times they try and sort of have a
distinction there. So I think Hawkins makes all the sense
if it comes down to that, but I don't know
if that's actually how it'll play out.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Yeah, I think you've identified the top two candidates and
it really doesn't matter which one. Let's say, just for
a second, it's Courtney, but it could also be Keith.
And now you've lost badly at Indiana and you have
had your face rubbed in it by Michigan. Everyone has
(17:38):
checked out. They're thinking about basketball, they're thinking about hockey,
they're thinking about who the next coach is going to be.
Just turn the damn page. And you're talking about four
winnable games, not to say that say it will be
favored in any of them. They won't be. But what
if Michigan State beat Minnesota, had a bye week, beat
(18:01):
Penn State, Iowa, and Maryland went to a bowl game,
and suddenly they won the last five games and finished
seven and five. Would Courtney or Keith be a viable
candidate to take over or you know, fans here are
still delusional. They're talking about Nick Saban coming back for
(18:22):
God's sake, or you know, Urban Meyer or some of
the other names I have heard mentioned that Michigan State
is not going to be getting and some of the others, frankly,
who are going to have a lot better offers than
Michigan State. Is it possible that someone could coach themselves
into a back door job.
Speaker 5 (18:45):
No, I don't think so. I don't think that really,
I don't think that flies anymore these days. It's such
a high stakes I mean, we're talking about firing a
guy eighteen games in, right, It's such a high stakes deal.
Now you cannot afford to screw these up and keep
hitting reset. I mean, it's gonna cost a lot of
money to get Jon and Smith out of here and
(19:05):
get somebody else in here that's that's not gonna be
a decision that's made lightly and never got fired with record.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (19:15):
Maybe I have no idea, but at the point is
like Jabtt does not strike me as a guy who's
like gonna go cheap or shortcut route. I think he
wants to make his sort of legacy move, uh and
put his stamp on the the whole athletic department. So
I don't see that happening. And at Michigan State States specifically,
I mean, this almost never works out when people fall
for it, but at Michigan State specifically, I don't think
(19:38):
there's any appetite to throw the interim a bone and say,
all right, let's see what you got type of saying,
given how that's worked in the past here, So zero
percent chance of that happening really all they'd be doing,
It's quite honestly, at that point, those poor games you're
talking about, they would really just be auditioning for coaches
for their next job and players for their next program.
See who wants to come get me in the portal here?
(19:59):
Because there'd be nothing in terms of value to Michigan
State that would carry over at that point even if
they were to go seven to five or whatever.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
You just said.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah, let's talk about a couple of the names that
we have heard or are hearing, and one of the
most prominent is Brent Key. He is the coach at
Georgia Tech. Jay bats Guy. Georgia Tech is six to zero,
ranked twelfth in the country. They visit Duke that's a
(20:30):
dangerous team. That is Saturday at noon. Then they entertain Syracuse.
It's not a guarantee, but they'll be favored certainly. They're
at North Carolina State, same Boston College, which has fallen
out of the plane without a parachute. Then they finish
against Pittsburgh paton Ardoozy having a good year, not a
(20:53):
great year, but a very good year. That is a
home game and then another home game against Georgia. And
if you remember the game against Georgia last year, that
was eight overtimes eight and Georgia Tech should have won
that game. They really outplayed Georgia in every way, managed
(21:13):
to not make a two point conversion and lost that game.
But if Georgia Tech can run the table here and
be twelve and zero and certainly be a top ten team.
Then is that something you can see happening? And if
it is, you got to wait a long time because
now you're talking about a coach who's going to be
(21:36):
in the playoff, might win a playoff game or two.
You're talking about somebody who's not going to come in
until late January. Probably is that a viable option for
Michigan State.
Speaker 5 (21:51):
I think it makes a lot of sense. I think
it'd be a pretty good hire considering to me, Look
that we got to say it too at the top
of this, This does not appear to be a great
cycle to be firing your coach. You know, there's not
an abundance of clear up and comers. You know, there's
not a lot of those PJ. Fleck Western Michigan types.
There's not even a lot of Jonathan Smith types, you
know that are gettable out there. Mike Elko's at Duke
(22:12):
the last time around, you know so. And I don't
think it's a super clear and obvious easy coaching market
to be into, especially if you start talking about Florida
may be opening, maybe Auburn's opening too. You already got
Virginia Tech, you already got Actually just talking about Florida,
stay yeah, you know so, and some people are predicting
(22:33):
a pretty wild cycle here as everybody you know is
run around with cash and trying to make moves and
then trying to establish himself. So anyway to Brent Key,
you know, I think if he does all those things
at the bad time, because I don't know that he
feels he needs to leave Georgia Tech. You know, you're
in the azy C. You're really going to play like
one to two good teams every year and then you
can just dance your way into the playoffs. Like the
(22:55):
level of competition just isn't there compared to the big ten,
and you can still do every If he does all that,
he wins a couple of playoff games, even he's got
to sit back and say, wait a second, what am
I going to do? Much like Kurt Signetti and the
discussions around him, what am I going to do in
Michigan State that I'm not already doing here? He's in
Atlanta surrounded by a ton of talent. If you can
be the big fish in the ACC, you know, again,
(23:16):
it's not a hard road. You have Miami and sort
of the withering corpse of Clemson. I guess maybe Florida
State gets it right, but it's just not the same
level of competition as up here. So I don't know
if it necessarily he wants to leave there. I've heard
some things that he really does not and would not
be interested in leaving there at this point in time.
So I think you kind of need him to fall
(23:37):
in his face a little bit and put a little
dirt on his resume if you're going to have a
shot at him. I know Jay Batt has the relationship.
I'm sure that that will at least be considered, but
I don't know that. Again, I don't know that he's
gonna be willing to leave and be like I just said,
I don't know that he if it even makes a
lot of sense for him to leave. If he's got
a nice thing going, he's got a rolling in an
easy winnable league, why would you need to come up here?
(24:01):
I guess in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
If Michigan State is paying Jonathan Smith seven and a
half million dollars, which seems like a boatload of money
to me, but it is the tenth highest salary in
an eighteen team conference, and we know that Brent Key
is making less than that at Georgia Tech. Let's say
Georgia Tech said, Okay, we're going to pay you eight
(24:24):
million dollars. Would Michigan State be prepared to break the bank.
They've already got a thirty two million dollar buyout here
that they're staring at. Don't forget that's real money. That's
not something you can just write a check for. You
have to be able to pay it. But you have
(24:45):
to do something because they're not going to sell season
tickets next year with Jonathan Smith leading this program, and
they're not going to be able to get the kind
of donations they need to compete in name, image and likeness,
or even just the revenue share twenty million if football
doesn't show a pulse. So do you think Michigan State
(25:07):
would say, Okay, this is our guy. We've identified a guy.
He's a Saban protege. We know the problem. Offensive lines
have been here, Georgia Tech's offensive lines not the problem,
and we're going to pay this guy ten million dollars.
Could you see that happening?
Speaker 5 (25:27):
I guess, because I mean I can kind of you
can kind of see anything happening in this era. Would
it be the smartest thing when you're paying Genain Smith
that much, and I mean, I think Brent Key's a
good coach. I wouldn't have the same positive reaction though
to hiring him that I had when they hired Johnas
you know, JOHNA. Smith would to come in I think
as a probably a more proven coach, at least for now.
(25:47):
I guess we'll see how Key finishes out, but I
think he would be a good hire, maybe about as
good as they could do. Again, this cycle doesn't look
super attractive when you look across the board, but I
thought JOHNA. Smith was a great hire. Obviously not worked out,
And we've talked many times about how you can't predict
these things. Luke Fickle was a A plus hire for
Wisconsin and that's going up in flames. Scott Frost a
(26:08):
plus higher didn't work out at all. Nebraska, Jim Harbaugh
a plus higher took some time, eventually worked out, dubious circumstances, whatever.
But just you cannot predict these things, no matter how
good of a fit they might be or how bad
it might be on surface. So I don't know if
you break the bank to the point. For Brent Keeth,
I don't know if he's there yet. You know, I
guess I'd have to know there are other options and
(26:29):
what else they have. But you know that is a
wild card because Jabat has worked intimately with him, he
knows him very very well, and if he truly believes
he's a can't miss type of guy, then yeah, I
could see them doing something like that and really making
a statement and say, hey, you are leaving Georgia tech buddy,
you don't have a choice. Here's the check, you know,
fill in the numbers. You are leaving to tell us
how to get it done. If he feels that strongly
(26:51):
about him, then sure, But I don't know if that's
the case.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
There's a segment, Stephen, and you probably know some these
people who want a spartan, they want someone who is
from here, and they'll they'll hit you with the you know,
Bigie Duffy, George was a spartan. Nick had been here,
came back, D'Antonio had been here, came back. They think
(27:17):
that is particularly important. Do you think there's any chance
that that would happen? And you know, maybe that that's
a Nardoozie type. Some people have mentioned even mentioned Pat
Shermer's name, although he had to failed stints in the
National Football League. Now he's now at Colorado. Do you
(27:38):
think there's any chance they would go that direction or
Jay Batt is certainly not wedded to that.
Speaker 5 (27:45):
I'd be very surprised if that was some sort of
like marching order. I mean, Jay Bat's not from here.
He's going to be heeering the ship. I don't think
he's gonna really care about that unless it was sort
of a made and non negotiable to him by the
money people. But I think at this point the money
people are gonna say, go get us the best coach
and start winning games now, please, And they're not going
to care if he's from Mars, you know, as long
(28:06):
as a guy can win. So that's kind of my
sense of it. I Mean, the problem is, as we
all know, D'Antonio stuck with his guys, you know, for
the better part of that thirteen years. Nardozzi is the
only one who left an S and had a little
bit of success, So there's not like a big crop
to pull from him. There's not this D'Antonio tree and
Nardoozi's getting up there, and you know he's kind of
(28:26):
had a you know, up and down time there every
time it looks really dismal. He seems to pull out
a decent season and give himself a little more time,
so he credit to him there. I mean, there are
worst head coaches. There are people that had worse ten years.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
But he was moving to win the press conference when
people are looking for someone with personality. And I think
that's one of the biggest knocks against Jonathan. It's the style.
It's that he looks so detached and you listen to him.
You know, someone told me that they couldn't lead a
pack of scouts across the street with the traffic light. Uh,
you know, and fair or or not, that is the perception.
(29:03):
That's never been a problem with Pat, who will tell
you exactly what he thinks, and the problem is you
can't print half of it. So you know, he was
known for coming down from the press box to the
sideline and basically challenging his own players to f his fights.
But you know it worked, and you know, Michigan State
(29:23):
wound up with a Rose Bowl win and much much more.
In the Darduzzi era, I call it the D'Antonio Nardozzi
era because I think he was clearly the second one
and the guy who really gave. He was kind of
like a good cop bad cop deal with D'Antonio, only
usually it's the other way, the assistant is a good cop.
(29:47):
In this case, there was a real fear factor. So
that's just one option, and I agree with you it's
it's highly unlikely. I want to talk about some coaches
and if you don't think it's important that he'd be
from Mission State, I think a lot of people think
that it is important that he knows the Big Ten,
that he knows the region, that he has maybe been
(30:09):
in Spartan Stadium once, that he understands what Michigan State
is all about. And there are some coaches in this
league whose names have come up and would be or
might be available. Let me give you three of them.
A lot of people think that PJ. Fleck, who would
win any press conference, is going to be out at Minnesota.
(30:33):
They think that, you know, his act is Warren Thin.
They've reached whatever they can do there, and PJ. Fleck
would certainly embrace the chance to be at another Big
Ten program than Minnesota, even though he he talks about
it and you know he represents But if he had
a chance to coach at Michigan State or Michigan. I'm
(30:55):
sure he would jump at that. There's Pat Fitzgerald, who
had I think amazing success. You know, you're talking about
five double digit win seasons at Northwestern, You're talking about
eight Bowl wins at Northwestern. You're talking about a guy
who was the youngest coach in the country when he started,
(31:16):
and he is still young. He's in his early fifties,
so he could be around for a long time. And
he was pretty much exonerated in terms of the hazing episode.
But you know, he's got a lot of money now.
It looks like with that settlement he's going to have
from Northwestern, you know, he's looking for a chance to
(31:38):
come in and shove it up people's rear and show
that you know, hey, I'm a good coach. I was
a good coach. And there are people who would die
for Pat Fitzgerald. I know some of them. The other
name is James Franklin, and we were just talking about
the chance that Matt Rule at Nebraska is going to succeed.
(32:03):
James Franklin. He's going to move, he's going to go home.
He's going to go back to Penn State where he played,
and he says how much he loves Penn State. If
that happens, some people think James Franklin's going to wind
up in Nebraska. So it's going to be a trade
rule for Franklin. But would Michigan State want to get
into James Franklin sweep stakes. Yeah, he can't win the
(32:25):
biggest of big games, but first you have to win
the small ones and medium ones. And James Franklin has
won eleven games or more five times, and he's one
of only four who have done that, with Urban Meyer,
Ryan Day and Mark D'Antonio. So any of those three
I think that you think that would be a great
(32:46):
fit at Michigan State.
Speaker 5 (32:49):
Yes, so I think there's a pecking order. PJ absolutely
not start at the bottom. I guess, okay, you know,
I don't think he's done enough to really excite for
I think he's kind of shown his ceiling. I don't
think a lot of people would buy into that as
really being a difference maker long term in terms of
raising the ceiling in terms of getting Mission State in
the playoffs. Consistently, he's had more than enough time at
(33:12):
Minnesota has sort of tried to show that they really
haven't other than a couple of blips, So I just
don't think he excites at this point. I think he
kind of is what he is and what he's doing
at Minnesota. Maybe eight nine wins ceiling is probably about
what he would do here. I don't think that's what
they're shooting for here. The next tier up, Yeah, i'd
go Franklin. Look, you could do a whole lot worse.
And if he went, I think he would win comparably
(33:33):
to how he won a Penn State and probably would
still struggle in the big He.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Could bring in the staff, he could bring in some players.
Speaker 5 (33:41):
Oh yeah, he would recruit well. He's been a proven
recruiter in Detroit, specifically, he has a lot of recognition there,
so he would recruit well right away. I'm sure he
would win pretty much right away, But I still think
he'd eventually run into the same issues of winning the
big one. And but but still, I think I think
it takes a good ten years to get sick of that,
probably before you're really sure. Well, he does have a
(34:03):
track record, so maybe he wouldn't get but still, MS
few folks I know would take a good, good run
of six seven years of ten to eleven wins even
if it wasn't because it was short of a national title,
so they could do a lot worse than that. I
do thinking about this. The one thing that struck me
with him though, is we all know him and Mark
D'Antonio were in best buddies, and it's not that D'Antonio
(34:23):
is the biggest power broker, But I do wonder if
that would be a thing at all, You know, would
he really be comfortable with it? Because he does self
a presence around the program, not a big one, but
it's still his aura is still around it. And I
don't know, I guess the degree to which their relationship is,
but I just kind of wonder if he would be
fully on board with that, and if that would cause
a little uneasiness with Jay batt With tom Izzo, I'm
(34:46):
sure he's going to have a big voice in this.
Would they would D'Antonio and his relationship have any kind
of effect on it?
Speaker 1 (34:52):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (34:52):
It's just something I thought about that I think is
worth thinking about. Maybe it's nothing, Maybe it's something pat
Visgeriald for me, would be a top tier sort of thing.
You forget about him because he's not out there. I
think somebody's going to get him, and someone's going to
be happy that they did. Like you mentioned, all the accomplishments,
he's a proven coach. Young guys still would come back
with an edge, as you mentioned, which I think Misigan
State would would grab onto. He has a lot of
(35:16):
the same values and fundamentals that folks around here would
appreciate if they could get that done. And he's a
really interesting wild card. I don't know what he wants
to do or how soon he wants to do it,
but you know, there might be a little bit of
question because of Misigan State's history and his history with
a little baggage. You have to smooth that over. Get
the pr right. I don't think it's a deal breaker
(35:36):
by any means. It's just something that has to be considered.
But I think he'd be a really good get, would
stabilize things. Like I said, come in with a hunger.
I think he'd recruit. He'd have a brand name behind him.
Now eventually maybe again, you run into that issue of
getting over the hump from good to great. He never
really did that Northwestern.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
If the talent he had at Northwestern and the players
he could get, I mean, you know, him to win
a national championship. There is you know, pretty delusional, I
would think. But Pat Fitzgerald did turn the University of
Michigan down twice, including once when Dave Brandon flew to
Chicago with the contract. And you know, maybe there's something
(36:20):
to that. Certainly has the personality. You know, he is
an enthusiastic I mean, if you're talking about an energy gap,
Pat Fitzgerald gets out of bed with more energy than
most people have if they have been sucking camp caffeine
for eight hours.
Speaker 5 (36:41):
Yeah, and I think you get a great version of him,
you know. I mean, he'd been in North less than
a long time, he had some success. I don't know,
maybe it just you know, we've seen change of scenery,
help people, and what he's gone through trying to get
his name back and everything. I think you get a
really good version of him. I think he'd be energized
to sort of navigate this landscape, you know, at least
(37:01):
you hope so, because why get into it, you know,
if not go to the NFL or just sit on
your big pile of money, you know, if you're not
ready to get dirty and you know, roll up your
seeds with with all that this era takes. But I
think you'd get a good version of him motivated to
I guess iid continue to sort of reclaim his name
a little bit. I think there's some some similarities with
what he did well at Northwestern that would play well here,
(37:21):
with the defense, with the physicality, blue collar nature to
it all, there'd be a lot of that. I think
would be a very very good fit. I don't have
a lot of downside. Like I said, you'd have to
move out the pr part a little bit. But as
you said, I mean, I think that's fairly easy to do.
He's he's basically been cleared of all that stuff, so
I think that'd be a minor, minor hurdle. I don't
know if you'd have to necessarily break the bank for
(37:42):
him unless he's in a bidding war. I mean, maybe
Michigan comes open. That's something I think has to be
discussed too. And I think that's something that some coaches
an agent so are thinking about if they really slide here,
when you know, once they fall out of the playoffs
and whatnot, do they want to stick around with Sharon
more because that would be a huge wild card in
the coaching carousel. But yeah, I think Passager would be
(38:02):
a great pick for him and probably one of the
one of the safest and one of the highest ceilings.
At the same time, I don't have a I don't
have a lot of bad things to say about it.
If they were able to go in that direction, I
would celebrate that.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
I'm gonna give you one other big ten name. And
this is not a guy who has any head coaching experience,
but he's going to be a hot one in the cycle,
and somebody is gonna is going to buy in and say,
you know, he is the guy. He is the next guy,
and that's Brian Hartline. And I wanted him to get
a long look the last time. It didn't happen, But
(38:36):
he is now the offensive coordinator. Chip Kelly is gone
at Ohio State. He was an outstanding receiver there, a
guy who made himself into a player long career in
the National Football League. Had more than four hundred catches
there again, you know undrafted guy a lot of izzo
(38:59):
in Brian Hartline. He's been named the top recruiter in
college football. Now it looks like you got a great
chance to come in as a back to back national champ.
The big problem with Brian Hartline is again you're talking
about going to February. You know almost before you could
(39:21):
you could really have him on the ground running certainly
well into January, depending what Ohio state does you know?
Do you want to basically just write this off and say,
you know, bring in who you can and you know,
we're going to give you a long leash. But I
think that any team that gets Brian Hartline is going
to be really happy they did.
Speaker 5 (39:44):
They could be, and it could be one of those
scenarios where we go, geez, how did everybody miss that
for so long? You know, I mean, he's yeah, tell
you everything you said. He's got a very good reputation.
I could see it that. The thing is, though, well,
first of all, I thought you were gonna mention Will
Sein at Oregon. He's kind of a hot coordinator right now.
And turns out his wife actually has some some Lancing
area ties, so maybe there's something in play there. But
(40:06):
but but my bigger thing is I just don't know that.
I mean, you think about being in j Bat's shoes,
You're you're cutting a huge check to get rid of
this guy, and now you're going to basically risk your
position on a first time head coach in this competitive
Big Ten environment. I mean maybe he's coach, yes, yes,
(40:27):
but who else was?
Speaker 1 (40:28):
I think some guy named Izzo? You know? Who else was?
Some guy named Nightingale?
Speaker 5 (40:34):
Right right? All different eras though, you know, in different
different spots. I just this is basically going to be
Jabat's job on the line.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
You know.
Speaker 5 (40:40):
And now he starts the clock. Really his tenure when
he makes this higher. So is he going to be
comfortable and willing or the donor is going to be
comfortable and willing to take an experiment? And I've never
been a head coach candidate before, I don't know. I
just think that's something to consider for a guy in
his position, with all the all the that's on his plate.
Is he going to be willing to risk this huge
pivotal I'm somebody like that. I will say too, if
(41:03):
Wisconsin's not smart enough to hire my guy, Jason Ck
out of New Mexico, I bet you could get him
for fairly cheap, and I know that he would do.
He'd make you a winner. I'm confident in that. And
again the highest level of winning. I don't know, but
the way he fliving that anybody.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
Who comes in here and doesn't move the needle and
is at a disadvantage before he starts. And I think
will Stein and Jason Eck are great names. They are
going to be great candidates, probably excellent choices for someone
I want someone. And then normally I say winning the
press conference doesn't matter here. I think the important thing
(41:40):
is getting everybody excited about this, and even more so
now than ever because stadium was empty last week the
start of the fourth quarter. I know a lot of
people have already decided they're not buying tickets next year.
And for Michigan State to be a player, which it
needs to be in name, image and likeness and revenue sharing,
(42:05):
all of those kinds of things, it's going to take
people believing, buying in and digging deep. And I think
it's important Michigan State have kind of a sexy hire here.
Speaker 5 (42:17):
I agree with that. Like I said, though, I just
don't know that there's many out there like Passage. Jared
would be that, James Franklin would be that, maybe Brent
Gee would be that. You know how many Michigans State
Big ten fans really know brink still and what he's doing.
Speaker 4 (42:29):
Yeah, I'm not a lot.
Speaker 5 (42:31):
I don't think there's a lot of Yeah, I don't
think there's a lot of that flashy, you know, sex
appeal out on the market. So I just don't know
if that's going to be in the cards period.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
I do agree that like that, I mean, he's a
you know, he's he's more energetic than Jonathan Smith. But
you know, there's a long, long way, a big gap
from Brent Key to Fits or you know, PJ. Fleck
is off the charts with that. But I do think
it's important that somebody who can get the base excited
(43:02):
again and they haven't been that in a.
Speaker 5 (43:04):
Long time, right right, Yeah, I just don't think that
from what I can tell. So, I mean that's another
name that's hot that I don't know if there's going
to be a fit or in the conversation here anything
is Alex Golash down at South Florida. But like by now,
that's we've not named basically all the hot names and
candidates and everything and love that group. Like I said,
only a couple are really splashes. I mean Urban Meyer
would be a splash. I guess I don't think that's
(43:26):
going to be a thing. So, like it's it's yeah,
it's it's Franklin, it's Fitzgerald, and then it's everybody else.
In terms of that key, I guess would probably be
the biggest in terms of a sitting head coach. People
would do their research and whatnot, but it's yeah, I
don't think from what looks like as you try to
map out sort of the reasonable candidate pool, there's not
(43:46):
a lot that's going to be a groundshaker. I don't think,
and I don't know people to.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
Let me give you one other name, and people are
gonna roll their eyes at this one, but I'll tell you.
You mentioned Mark D'Antonio, and he's he's D'antonio's guy. I mean,
Mark goes and sees Paton or Doosey and this guy
every year. And uh, he has a winning resume for
the most part, and he was hot candidate for Michigan
(44:16):
State before uh they didn't get him. What if Michigan
State made a run at Luke Fickle and said it
didn't work at Wisconsin but it would here.
Speaker 5 (44:26):
Absolutely not absolutely not no, not the way he's crashed
and burned there, he's lit his sock on fire. There's
nothing that he's done in Wisconsin and maker you go,
I want some of that. And you know, people still
remember last time. They kind of feel still spurned by
that and all the total about his family.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
The only time that a group of five team has
made the college football Playoff, the coach was Looke Fickle.
Speaker 5 (44:50):
Yeah, no, I get it, but he's he's sullied that.
You know that. That's especially in today's the world how
fast things move. That that's ages ago in the in
the currency landscape of today. The other one I'll throw
out real quick, I think, is this at least worth
a call poking around? Somebody's got to get him sometime.
Is Matt Campbell out of Iowa. Say, I still think
he's a good coach. He's lost some lesser but the
(45:11):
Ohio guy change the scenery to a real competent league
out here. I would at least call him. I'd want
to be interested in him.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
For who can't get Dan Campbell? Maybe you get Matt Campbell.
Speaker 4 (45:21):
Right exactly the way.
Speaker 5 (45:25):
See what do you think?
Speaker 1 (45:26):
The last thing I want to hit you with on
this is you know what Jonathan Smith's record is at
Michigan State.
Speaker 5 (45:34):
At eight and ten.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
Eight and ten correct, which isn't that much different from
the start with Duffy Doherty or Nick Saban. Better than
George Purlis's start, not that much different, a little bit
than Mark d'antonio's. But you know who had a four
(45:57):
nineteen and one record in his first twenty four games. No,
Dan Campbell with the Detroit Lions.
Speaker 5 (46:09):
All right, my head was not on the right spot. Yeah, No,
I mean it's it does feel weird to be talking
about this the six games in the year two, right,
And I do think that there's some some good stuff
to Jhonn Smith and his fat But when you look
at the whole totality of it, I mean, where can
you really say that the program has made progress through
(46:30):
eighteen games? Now, eighteen doesn't sound like a lot, but
we talk about it here every week. This game doesn't
connect to the last game, doesn't connect to the next game.
You know, we talked about Child's growth a little bit,
and now weren't talking about regression. The offensive line hasn't improved,
The run game is nothing as it was the first
day he got here. I mean, there's just there's Recruiting
(46:50):
is in basically the same spot, Like, there's nothing that's
really advanced, So how is it going to advance over
the back half of this with less momentum, with less support,
with a harder schedule. You know, it's just that's the bummer,
is just nothing's moving forward. I don't think he's, you know,
the worst coach that's ever walked the sidelines or anything,
but things are not moving forward. And again, just to
(47:12):
circle back, I mean, the folks have already decided how
they felt about him, a lot of people a long
time ago. And when it's not moving forward, it's to
the writings on the wall. And I think that's where
we are.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
Yeah, I want to give you another coach here, and
let's talk about his first eighteen games. Okay, let's see
that would be all right? How about four and fourteen
(47:50):
for Kirk Farence his first eighteen games at Iowa.
Speaker 5 (47:56):
We might as well be talking like pre dinosaur era
at this point. That like with the era.
Speaker 1 (48:04):
Era, right, it doesn't matter, it's irrelevant.
Speaker 5 (48:07):
Yeah, it's not even comparable. No, I mean he would
have been fired in these days, so that's where you know,
he would have been fired a long time ago, would
have been fired, So it's not even comparable.
Speaker 1 (48:15):
Yeah, Steven, thanks, so much. Really appreciate your joining us.
We have a lot to talk about and something else me.
We're gonna be talking about this for the next several weeks.
Have fun in Bloomington. You're going to see Memorial Stadium
(48:35):
the way you have never seen it before. Used to
be that half the fans are more were for the
visiting team. Now good luck trying to get a ticket
or a parking space. We will be right back and
we're going to talk with Bill Benner, long time sports writer,
one of the best in the Midwest. Spent decades at
(48:56):
the Indianapolis Star, then with the Indiana Sports Commission, and
he now retired, has Indiana University football season tickets, and
he's gonna tell us all about Kurt Signetti and this amazing,
unthinkable turnaround in Bloomington. Be right back on the Drive.
A Jack game day in East Lansing. Just got taste here.
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Speaker 1 (53:11):
Welcome back. It is a driver with Jack the Spotlight
Radio Network. Jackieving here with my producer Boston Rob. Rob
someone asked me today if i'mone I hadn't seen for
a long time, says, how are you doing? And I said, okay,
I'm a lot better than Jonathan Smith. And one reason
(53:32):
is I don't have to coach against Kurt Signetti Saturday.
But Michigan State is going to be in Bloomington as
a twenty seven and a half point underdog, a number
I thought I would never see. I want to welcome
in Bill Benner. We know him from decades of great
work at the Indianapolis Star and then very important stuff
(53:56):
with the Indiana Sports Commission. Now you see him at
NCAA tournament games and he's there as a press moderator,
conducting the press conferences after the game. But he's also
an IU football season ticket holder. Bill that must be
more fun than anyone ever imagined it could be in Bloomington.
Speaker 6 (54:19):
Well, the imagined is the opetcative word, because nobody. I
was telling somebody the other day it wasn't that long
ago that I, my wife and I sat at in
the Memorial Stadium and onced I you lose to a
very mediocre Rutgers team, and I remember getting in the
(54:43):
car and getting on then Indian thirty seven. Now I
sixty nine to come back to Indianapolis and telling Sherry,
I said, let's just turn off the radio. We're not
going to listen to doctorsher on the post game, and
we're not going to talk until we get at least
two I for sixty five back in Indianapolis. And so
(55:04):
that wasn't that long ago. And then we had the brief,
very the brief instance of Tom Allen and the COVID season.
You know, it would figure that Indiana would have success
in the COVID season when nobody could be there. And
then Tom Allen goes away and here comes the Signetti guy,
(55:30):
and here we are nineteen games, he's seventeen and two.
Indiana's ranked number one in the USA Today Poll, number
three in the AP pole and Memorial Stadium has sold
out for the rest of the year as the Spartans
come into town. And no no one could ever have
(55:51):
imagined that maybe Kurt Sega, maybe Kurts Snetti, but nobody else.
Speaker 1 (56:00):
So Bill I was talking to Fisher yesterday and he's
had ten Indiana football coaches. I've had thirteen Michigan State
football coaches going on fourteen. Here very soon, what has
Signetti done that no one else could do? And there
were some good coaches on that Listlique Courso, I think
(56:22):
it was a pretty good football coach nearly succeeded Duffie
already here the utmost respect for Bill Mallory, Terry Yepner.
There's some guys here who knew, you know, what a
football look like, and they haven't come close to what
we're seeing now. How did this happen?
Speaker 4 (56:42):
Well?
Speaker 6 (56:42):
I think part of it is the environment, the fact
that he was able to when he came from James Madison,
he was able to bring I think with thirteen or
fourteen players and six or seven assistant coaches and so.
And I think they arrived, especially the players. I think
they arrived with a similar chip on their shoulder a
(57:05):
bit disrespected that or under or disrespected, underrated whatever. Uh
and so I think that system and that attitude came
with them in this in this new environment. He struck
struck at Ritch last year when he got Curtis Rourke
(57:27):
to bea the quarterback, transferring me in from ohiou he
hit the nail. He did it again this year with
Fernando Mendoza from California.
Speaker 1 (57:37):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (57:38):
He is he has around that j m U nucleus. Uh,
they have done done very well in the portal, the
you know Allie's they got a kid the offensive linement
starting offensive linement from Notre Dame to come to to
come to Indiana. So it's a mindset, it's a development
(57:59):
of talent, it's a system, a proven system that worked
in his previous stops. Uh. And so I think the
combination of all of that, Uh, you know you talked
about Terry Hepner. Terry Heppner's great quote was if you
think you can or you think you can't, you're right. Well,
(58:21):
Kurt Signetty thinks you can and and that IU And
that's that's a that's a mindset that probably has been
as from most of these one hundred and twenty years
of football.
Speaker 1 (58:39):
So you remember when he was introduced and Scott center
and he took the mic at halftime very briefly before
he dropped it and Uh screamed, Uh, I don't know
used to losing. Uh, and I'll plan to do it here.
By the way, produce sucks and soda Michigan and Ohio State.
(59:04):
How much did that mean to the mindset Indiana fans?
Speaker 6 (59:09):
Well, I think, I think, I think, you know, the
new sheriff is in town. He's coming with UH bistols loaded.
You know, It's funny Jack. I was the UH they
had the big ten media day at Lucas Oil Stadium
prior to UH the last season UH, and I was
Signetti's host, and so I took him around to the
(59:32):
various I probably probably brought him to you, but I
took him around to the various, So I to the
various media outlets. And so I spent eight hours with
the guy, and I told him my history with you know,
in sports journalism with the Star, and that I've been
around IU football for four years and that we had
(59:53):
subsequently become season ticket holders because I had this horrible
thing that I've I somehow guy hooked into AU football. Anyway,
I came home that night for sure, sure my wife
shar He said, so, how was he? I said, he
was the most brash guy I've ever run across UH.
(01:00:17):
And if he doesn't win, they're going to destroy him.
But if he does win, UH, he's going to uplift
the entire entire place. And and he has again seventeen
and two, he's packed it up to to this point now.
And I say to this point because so many of
(01:00:41):
so many of us who have followed AU football, we're
still we're still shaking our heads and our heads, you know,
it's still hard to grasp what has taken place. And
so Jack, believe me when I say this, I'm not
looking he further ahead than opening kickoffs against against Party
(01:01:04):
this Saturday.
Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
M Well, I think you're gonna have a good time Saturday. So, Uh,
what would have happened? I I asked on this question yesterday.
I'm curious to get your response. What would happen if
Bob Knight and Kurt Signetti got into a real argument,
(01:01:28):
not as something very contentious? Who would win? Oh?
Speaker 6 (01:01:33):
That that's a good one. That stand is a really
really good one. Night Geece Jack, that's it? Uh, I
got I gotta think about that. I think Signetti has
a physical pugnacis am I saying it right?
Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (01:02:00):
Physical, a physical pugnacity to him?
Speaker 5 (01:02:05):
Yeah that.
Speaker 6 (01:02:07):
In Night Night was more still bent on psychological warfare. Uh,
And so I think it's I think it would have
come down to the physical versus the mental. Perhaps, I gotcha?
Speaker 4 (01:02:22):
How about that?
Speaker 6 (01:02:24):
And what does this say? Uh?
Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
He said that, you know, it may never end. I
don't know. Eventually they would come to some sort of
some sort of agreement on some small factors. And you
know it's on the physical thing. Night was such an
imposing figure, much bigger than than a lot of people
would realize. But he was that was the case, and
it might be different. But I wouldn't think that Signetty
(01:02:50):
would ever back down from anyone. I'm also curious, being
in Indiana, every time the Hoosiers do this, what does
it do to Boilermakers?
Speaker 6 (01:03:04):
Uh, that's a good question made. But what the Boilermakers
right now will say, Well, what about basketball? That's what
That's what they were they would say, that's what they
would say currently. But yeah, this football thing. So uh,
I think the Boilermakers are hoping that they have struck
(01:03:30):
similar gold with Barry Odom and that they will see
the results. But you know, again, Signetti did this instantly,
and obviously Purdue is not in the instant turnaround category
for what we always seen so far. So you know,
(01:03:50):
there's always a bit of envy. Uh right nowdu Fants
would say, wait till basketball.
Speaker 1 (01:03:59):
Yeah, so let's say again we're going from into the
land of the impossible. Let's say Indiana wins the national
championship and sixty three to ten over Illinois and a
double digit win at Austin Stadium suggests that, you know,
anything could happen. Let's say Indiana wins the College football
(01:04:21):
Playoff and then Purdue, which we know has had so
many great basketball teams and has never won it, and
this is their year they win the national championship in basketball.
Could the state of Indiana function with this? And which
fan base would smile the widest?
Speaker 6 (01:04:44):
Well, I would think, Okay, I think the Indiana fan
base would smile the widest because it's so unexpected. There's
this history, this history of being you know, Indiana football.
Whereas Purdue, you know, going back to the going way
back to the days of French Ouse Le Rose, They've
(01:05:09):
had they've had a certain modicum of national success so
that they haven't won the national championship. Uh And Matt Painter,
Matt Painter, Indiana people even like Matt Painter, at least
this guy does, because he's a Hoosier through and through.
He's a hell of a good coach. He comports himself
(01:05:30):
at such a high level that I think Indiana people,
Uh admire Matt Painter as uh, they hold me with
great respect. But the unexpectedness of Indiana's rise the football
prominence would be it would be one of the great
sports stories of all time, no question, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:05:52):
No question. It's it's almost impossible to dislike Matt Painter.
I think he's you know, Michigan fans Matt Painter, Tom
is so recruited Matt Painter. I mean, he's I have
so much respect for him. And you know the thing
that I always point to, Bill, and you've done enough
of these press conferences. I don't think you did this one.
(01:06:14):
You weren't in Columbus when Purdue lost right to the
sixteen seed. No, okay, So after this game, and it's
only the second time it had ever happened, right, So
he comes into the press conference up there and a
lot of people are like, you know, if this had
(01:06:36):
been an asshole, they would they would have read of
the riot Act. But Painter, you know, they're like, oh,
you know, we're as uncomfortable as he is. And he
sat up there and he took every question and then
they were trying to get him off the podium. They
were like, okay, well, you know we're done, coach, you go?
He said no, No, said anybody have anything else? Went
(01:06:57):
around the room. I want to make sure everyone had
asked every question and could not have conducted himself with
a more class or de corum.
Speaker 6 (01:07:08):
Well, you mentioned my the intro. You mentioned my role
as the press conference moderator, and in that role, I
have been up on the dias with Matt on most
boy occasions, and I have never ever seen him not
(01:07:29):
give the question a well thought out composed answer, Nor
have I ever seen him lose his cool pounty's fist,
you know, throw away the score sheet and wrap it
up and wad it up and throw it under the table.
I've never seen a hint of that from Matt Danner.
(01:07:53):
He you set a class and the korum and I
can't think of a two better terms to describe him.
And he's a hell of a basketball coach.
Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
Yeah, just throw that in. Yeah. Uh talk about the
media for a second, and you hear about Bob Uker
in Milwaukee and how you know they're trying to win
one for you reading a message whether it was you know,
legitimate or contrived from him to the team, and you
(01:08:27):
know this has become kind of a Uker tour here
for the Milwaukee Brewers. What do you think Bob Hamil
would be thinking right now?
Speaker 6 (01:08:39):
Oh, my gosh, that's a that's an emotional question. Bob
would be, Uh, you know what, Bob would be cranking
out five stories today. We would be he'd be, he'd
be hitting every angle. He would be taking full advantage
(01:09:03):
of his proximity within the program and his relationship with
with the within the program, and he'd be he'd be
beating all of the rest of us.
Speaker 5 (01:09:17):
Yeah, but you.
Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
Think he would walks with Curi.
Speaker 6 (01:09:26):
I don't know whether the No, probably not, because Sega's
looking at game film in the he's sitting there, He's
sitting in that recliner of his looking.
Speaker 1 (01:09:36):
At game film right right. For those of you who
don't know the name Bob Hamill, he was the the editor.
And I don't know anyone ever cranked out more copy
uh than than Pops did for the Bloomington Herald. I
guess it was Harold Telephone. Uh he started right and
(01:09:57):
and uh, you know, for more than a half cent.
And I also, I want to give you a chance
to weigh in on our mutual friend Michael Presty and
I had a chance to talk to him last night
and dealing with some real tough stuff now with the
cancer and after losing his wife. And now you know
(01:10:21):
he's he thinks about more than sports, I'll tell you that,
and some of the best commentary that you you would
ever read. But I told him, Hey, you know you're
way too important to leave us.
Speaker 5 (01:10:34):
Now, Yes, I couldn't.
Speaker 6 (01:10:37):
I could not agree more. Mike is Mike is one
of the most versible journalists that I've ever been around.
He's has the ability to capture the moment, whether it's
an Olympic gold medal basketball game or high school sectional
(01:11:00):
in Richmond, Indiana.
Speaker 1 (01:11:02):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (01:11:03):
He he has he Mike has the ability to again,
no matter the level of the sport, no matter the sport.
Uh He's got the incredible Oh and he does it.
Speaker 5 (01:11:18):
He can.
Speaker 6 (01:11:18):
He turns out these parols on deadline, I mean instantly.
Speaker 1 (01:11:23):
The fastest two I've ever seen, no question, no question.
Speaker 6 (01:11:29):
Uh So my prayers are obviously with Mike. Uh. We
gather about once every couple of months. There was a
well known sports writer for the Indianapolis News named Ray
Compton who is undergoing some difficulties physically and is confined
to an assisted living facility. So Jim russ Old, former
(01:11:52):
Indianapolis News sports writer and the press box announcer at
ross A Stadium at Purdue, Mike Lapresty Tom raeven the
former Indianapolis News and sportswriter, and we we get together
every couple of months with Ray Compton. The last time
we got gathered, we had no idea Mie. Uh yeah,
(01:12:15):
and uh, I've exchange. I send him a couple of messages,
but I would again my thoughts are with I hate
that cliche, but.
Speaker 1 (01:12:24):
They all yeah, yeah, Well a lot of our listeners
have read his stuff for years and you may not
even know it, but for the Gannett News Service and
USA Today and now for NCAA dot com. Uh, you know,
just the most respect for him and you know, pulling
for him as hard as as you and I can.
I'm sure, Bill, thanks so much for your time. Really
(01:12:48):
appreciate it. And I will talk to you again before
Indiana wins the national championship.
Speaker 6 (01:12:54):
Now, now, Jack, well you will you being moment on
the third.
Speaker 1 (01:12:58):
You know I was going to go. I actually had
a credential and some things that come up here, and
so I am not going to be there. I was
planning to be there. There's a chance I will be
at a Big Ten championship game in Indianapolis. I've done
that before when Michigan State or Michigan hasn't been there.
(01:13:19):
So I would love to see an Indiana Ohio state
championship game, and maybe we will see that. But nonetheless,
I think you've got a couple of months here of
a big moments ahead, and I'm not talking about basketball.
Speaker 6 (01:13:39):
Well again, I'm not looking any further ahead than the
three thirty kitchen off, and we'll see how transporters. You know,
they got UCLI next week you say I's playing better,
and then we'll take it from there down the road.
Thank you, Hey, and always Jack, thank you. I value
our friendship. Shift Thorne way way.
Speaker 1 (01:14:01):
Back, Bill Betner, one of the giants covering the Big
Ten decades of great work at the Indianapolis Star. We
will be right back and the plan is to hear
from Kristin Kelsey, Michigan State's first year volleyball coach. And
she's not maybe a miracle worker on the Signetti level,
(01:14:26):
but really really impressive start. I haven't lost a home match.
They just had a straight sets win over twentieth ranked
Indiana and at fourteen and two, preparing for well somewhat
consider to be the impossible. That is a visit from
(01:14:46):
number one ranked Nebraska at Breslent Center Friday night. We'll
talk to Christen about her team, it's accomplishments and the
challenges ahead. Coming up on the drive with Jack Game
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Speaker 1 (01:16:12):
Jack Keavlin here with my good friend Matt Sloan a
graph of ochemists. Big summer air, Matt.
Speaker 5 (01:16:16):
That's right, Jack.
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Speaker 1 (01:17:51):
Common welcome back. It is a drive with Jack Spotlight
Radio Network, Jack Evlin here with my producer Boston Rob.
(01:18:13):
Rob just got some news here, you got it before
I did that. Kristin Kelsey got pulled into a meeting, right.
Speaker 3 (01:18:20):
Yeah, she got pulled into what I was told a
pretty serious meeting. So they apologize not going to be
able to join us here. This happened a couple while
you were in the midst of doing the interview in
the last segment, So Maggie gives her apologies the sid
but looking forward to getting her on very soon. Of course,
you talked about the big big game this or match
(01:18:42):
I should say this weekend against number one Nebraska. Boy,
the atmosphere for this match will be problem I mean,
one of the biggest atmospheres for Michigan State volleyball in
quite a while, I would imagine, right.
Speaker 1 (01:18:58):
Yes, yes, and we know what it was like for
the win over Michigan. That was pretty electric there. So
you know, it'll be interesting to see because football is
on the road, hockey is on the road. Hockey with
a very important series number three Spartans against number one
(01:19:19):
Boston University. Yep, so that will be interesting see how
that turns out. And is that game on? Are those
games on television? Those hockey games? Can we see those?
Speaker 3 (01:19:32):
They are on television? I believe on ESPN two both
are on there, so most certainly we'll be able to watch,
I dare say, in two of the most deepest teams
in all of college hockey and two of the most
talented for sure, So no question bu deserves to be
the number one team in the country right now considering
(01:19:53):
what happened last weekend. But my goodness, it's going to
be something to watch. Get your popcorn ready.
Speaker 1 (01:20:00):
I'm sure that they will be on at one North
East Lansing, and knowing Neil Kepke, if he's not going
out to Boston, he'll probably be organizing some sort of
a viewing party. Rob, you have been to a lot
of Michigan State sporting events the last several years. Most
of the home football games, a lot of the home
(01:20:22):
basketball games. You've been a fixture at Michigan State hockey.
You've seen more of that than I have. But you
have also been to Jennison field House for gymnastics. I
know we went with Jay Green and he saw his
first gymnastics meet there. Volleyball, Would you be inclined to
(01:20:47):
go over to Breslan Friday night and see this Nebraska
team that put ninety two thousand, ninety two thousand people
into Memorial Stadium?
Speaker 3 (01:20:59):
Oh? Absolutely, anytime you get to see and to see
what coach Kelsa has been able to do with this
Michigan State team as well. I mean ten and two
nothing to shake a stick at right, I mean, but
most certainly when you get to see one of the
most dominant programs really over the last couple of years, Jack,
when you look at it in any sport, how they've
(01:21:20):
been able to do that. This reminds me of the
old Penn State volleyball teams back. You know that they've
ruled the roost in the Big Ten for quite a
number of years. And Nebraska seems to be on that track.
But yeah, I mean, it's it most certainly will be
a ruckus atmosphere. Jennison for volleyball has done quite well
(01:21:40):
as far as fans go, and that Breslent Center excuse me, Yeah,
so it's and they've done well, uh you know as
far as that goes as well. So absolutely, it's it's
it's I dare say, it's must see, must see.
Speaker 1 (01:21:54):
Sport, to see the best in the sport. And you
want to see Olympic athletes. Yeah, you know some who
are going to be representing this country, including one from
ann Arbor who said no to the University of Michigan
to go to Nebraska. This is your chance and to
(01:22:15):
see how Michigan State stacks up. I don't think there's
anyone outside the MSU volleyball offices. Who thinks that, you know,
they're going to win this, but but it'll be interested
to see how they do.
Speaker 3 (01:22:28):
How they against literally the best the best. Yeah, and
that's what it's.
Speaker 1 (01:22:33):
Nearly unanimous number one in the nation. I think, you
know Texas has got.
Speaker 3 (01:22:37):
But if you're a Michigan state, hey look at if
you're a Michigan state, hey look at you had nothing
to lose. And this is why you come to Michigan
State to play against the best. And so most certainly
the measuring stick. And we'll see what they can do.
And regardless, it will be a again I keep mentioning it,
but it's very true for volleyball, a raucous atmosphere.
Speaker 1 (01:22:56):
Yeah, Kristen Kelsey is not about moral victories, that's not
the way she rolls. But if her program could even
win a SAT here, yeah, you know, and this is
going to be a measuring stick. This is going to
show her athletes.
Speaker 3 (01:23:13):
It's going to take best looks like it's going to
take exactly and how do they and how did they respond?
And they've responded quite well against teams of a little diversity,
but how did they handle the adversity, which they're going
to get from the number one team in the in
the world, in the country. How they handled that adversity
and respond to some things will be very interesting to see.
Speaker 1 (01:23:37):
Ten and zero non conference and four and two in
the Big Ten. So fourteen and two. But for people say, well, yeah, okay,
but it can't happen here this place. You know, it
isn't Nebraska or Penn State or even Minnesota or Wisconsin
for volleyball. I can tell you there was a time.
Speaker 3 (01:23:58):
And you were here, ask about the six.
Speaker 1 (01:24:00):
Thousand and five I believe, yes, and Michigan State was
in the volley four and you know they were as
good as any team in the country. Didn't win the national.
Speaker 3 (01:24:13):
Championship, fell to Penn State, but seven seniors on that team, Jack,
so you know you can't beat experience, and boy, that
was that was most certainly when you look back at
Michigan State women's volleyball, that's most certainly one of the
last statements I believe they made as they've gone through
some transition. But coach kelsay, most certainly on the right track.
(01:24:37):
It's kind of given a little bit of Adam Nightingale
vibes a little bit, right, I mean, that's.
Speaker 1 (01:24:42):
Yeah, And Michigan State did make some noise, to be fair,
about a dozen years ago, but it was when Kristin
Kelsey was a player at Michigan State for Kathy George,
a setter, and you know, you make the Elite eight.
You know, that's that's that's pretty good accomplishment. But you know,
(01:25:02):
the last few years had been a fall off and
Michigan State was not a first division program. So to
come in and you know Michigan State's tied for fifth
in this league.
Speaker 3 (01:25:13):
Well that's just it too. I mean, volleyball for decades,
jack in the Big Ten. I mean, it's the toughest conference.
You could argue has been the toughest conference, and especially
since you got teams from the West Coast now coming
in here. I mean, no question, it's just when you're
at the tough, top top conference in the country, I mean,
it's just hard, you know what I mean, It's very difficult,
(01:25:36):
and that's where the money has been put to for
some of these other schools like Penn State, like Nebraska,
so most certainly it's been a climb, but they are
again for a first year head coach to start out
the way she has. And I know a lot of
people might ask, well, when you look at the non
conference it's maybe not as strong, but for a first
(01:25:58):
year coach trying to find her stef with with the players,
it was a perfect non conference schedule for her, right,
and those other those those tougher quote unquote non conference
schedules will come.
Speaker 1 (01:26:11):
She is Nebraska, Yeah, rob does not have hockey. Uh,
Nebraska Omaha does, but Nebraska Lincoln does not. So that's
money that was available. It's like, Iowa sure does not
have hockey, so that's money that went into wrestling for
many years. Penn State does have hockey, but they didn't
(01:26:31):
put any money into it until very recently a year ago. Yeah,
so you know that was money that went to volleyball.
And and you know, you only have so much. You
have put it so many places, right, so you know,
it's it's kind of like, uh, you've got hockey up
at Minnesota and Wisconsin. They did have some success, a
(01:26:52):
lot of success actually in volleyball. So you know, it's
it's interesting to see how this is all going to
work out with this twenty point five million dollars, because
football is going to want the lion's share of it,
and let's say football gets three quarters of it at
most places, so that's fifteen million. But then you think
about schools like Saint John's and some others that don't
(01:27:16):
even have football, you know, Gonzaga, they're going to be
a tremendous advantage with what they can do and what
they can pay because they're not going to have football there.
But then you have to decide, Okay, then you've got
so you've got five million left, how much of it
goes into basketball, how much of it goes into women's basketball,
(01:27:37):
how much of it goes into you know this gymnastics
get any certainly wants it. What about some of the
other sports that I think they are you know, wrestling
is in that group, and volleyball certainly, So it'll be
a tough decision to decide how to apportion now.
Speaker 3 (01:27:56):
And plus the new facilities, right, I mean Michigan State
coming up with new facilities for for some of the
Olympic sports. You always want to keep up with the
Joneses as far as that goes as well, right, you
want to be at the top of the line as
far as that goes too. So that's what do you
always say, Jack. I feel like it's one of the
most said sayings here on this show. Follow follow yeah,
(01:28:18):
follow the money, fall the Green, And I'm not talking
Jay Green. You can follow Jay Green if you want,
but follow the follow the old Lettuce. If you know
what I mean, I got you.
Speaker 1 (01:28:29):
Yeah, that is That's really what it's all about. So
we'll have to see how that all plays out. I'm
interested in something else tonight, Rob and I'm not talking
about baseball. We'll get to that in a minute, but
it is the Jonathan Smith Show over at one North,
(01:28:54):
and I know Fred's going to be over there.
Speaker 3 (01:28:56):
I don't feel about what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (01:28:59):
It is that know if Channel six will be over
there maybe, but I'm I'm very curious, and not just
because I think I can get some jumbalaya. I'm very
interested to see what the reaction is because when teams
lose attendance at these kinds of things, Sure yeah, sure,
(01:29:20):
and you know now we don't know, we don't know.
I mean, I'm not I'm not trying to get anyone
fired here, but this could be Jonathan Smith's last Coaches show.
Speaker 3 (01:29:33):
Yea, and who would have thought of that? Not even
he was not even a year and a half a coach.
Jack No Ian No, this is yes. But this is
the we always say it. We've heard numerous guests say
it when you talk about football and what it what
it has to do now with everything and all the
sporting events. Really, I mean it's when, now, what have
(01:29:55):
you done for me lately? Literally?
Speaker 1 (01:29:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:29:57):
Literally?
Speaker 1 (01:29:58):
So do you look at the coaching ten years? Okay,
and I'm not talking about the interims. I'm not talking
about Morris Watson and Harlan Barnett, but after Duffy Doherty,
you had three years with Denny Stoles and he had
a lot of success, but it was terminated by an
NCAA investigation which today would not have resulted in anything
(01:30:21):
close to a three year no Bowl, no television band.
I mean it would have been much much, much less
than that. Would have been some recruiting restrictions and a
fine and some other things, maybe a show cause hearing
for a couple of coaches, and then four years for
Darryl Rogers and he left to go to Arizona State
because he wanted to get back to warm weather mostly
(01:30:46):
and five years for Nick Saban, who left largely because
he couldn't agree on what day it was with the
university president and Peter McPherson, and then Bobby Williams's tenure,
and he was there two and a half years and
actually is the only Michigan State coach to be two
(01:31:09):
and zero in Bowl games. Amazing, but two and a
half years, that was the shortest stint. John L. Smith
four years, Mel Tucker two years and two games. It
(01:31:29):
is amazing to think that we could be talking about
a year and a half or a year and two
thirds the tenure for Jonathan Smith. If you had told
me the day he was hired that he would be
around a shorter time than Bobby Williams and Mel Tucker.
Speaker 3 (01:31:51):
Yeah, I wouldn't believe you. I wouldn't have believed you.
I'd bet you need to win, and you need to
win now literally now now. Well, actually I would even
say you needed to win yesterday. You don't. You don't
even have you don't even have time to a future,
to look into the future. You gotta And we hear
coaches say it all the time, right, I mean, we're
(01:32:11):
just focused on on this game rights right in front
of us. You know, we can't look ahead, and it's
so true. I mean, they they're talking about the schedule,
but they're also talking about you know, their job. Skew.
You gotta, you got, you just gotta. It's it's unfair
in some circumstances. But this is again, sound like a
broken record, but this is the world we live in,
(01:32:32):
and this is what money does. This is what part
of it, what money does to accelerate things right or wrong.
Speaker 1 (01:32:43):
Yeah, and we listened to Time as though, uh go
on and on and on about the evils of social media. Right, well, yeah,
so social media for a coach is being paid seven
and a half million dollars a year. You know, they're
big boys.
Speaker 4 (01:32:58):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (01:33:00):
I understand comes with the territory. And maybe maybe you
could say the same thing about athletes now who are
being compensated. But still, you know a lot of these
i'm gonna call them kids they're not twenty yet are
being ripped. And uh, the psychological impact on some of
(01:33:23):
this stuff. You know, you can say, well, you know,
just tell them turn off their phone, so tell them
to don't pay any attention to it, don't read it.
But there's still going to s.
Speaker 3 (01:33:31):
Yeah somehow, Yeah, easier said than them.
Speaker 1 (01:33:37):
So for Michigan State's players who are now being told
that they're losers and implied that they're quitters, but that
they're in a lot of fans' minds workless. You know,
maybe some some of the same fans who would be
waiting in line for autographs if they were doing great
(01:33:58):
now think that. You know, these these guys are are
disgusting and disgraceful. I've heard something said about Michigan State
football players in the last couple of weeks that I
wouldn't want said about my worst enemy.
Speaker 3 (01:34:13):
Yeah, it's a shame. I mean, it's unfortunately. Again, it's
part of the world that we live in, and you
have to manage through that, whether you know, I mean
you could. It's easier said than done to say, you
know what, don't even pay attention to it because it's everywhere.
It's everywhere, these these these these athletes go right, you
(01:34:33):
can't you can't ultimately escape it.
Speaker 1 (01:34:36):
And I understand this too, Rob You know, Uh, tickets
are expensive, seat licenses are yes, they always want you
to to contribute, they want your money. That's it's hard
to do. You know the situation when right now for
a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (01:34:51):
Well they have to choose. Well, they have to choose, right,
you can't choose. It's not like way back in the
old olden days, where hey, you know, I can afford
a basketball ticket, and I can afford a hockey ticket,
and I can afford them.
Speaker 1 (01:35:04):
Tickets worth three or four dollars. Yeah, it was very.
Speaker 3 (01:35:06):
Very very different, very different.
Speaker 1 (01:35:09):
So I get it. And if you choose not to partake, participate, enjoy.
Speaker 3 (01:35:15):
That's fine.
Speaker 1 (01:35:16):
That's your choice.
Speaker 3 (01:35:17):
That's fine.
Speaker 1 (01:35:17):
But I don't think it's necessary to try to be
a keyboard warrior.
Speaker 3 (01:35:22):
To go out to visit, to purposely go on the
internet and like you said, be a key keyboard warrior
where you don't know what these guys are going through
or athletes. I'll just say, in general, I think is
pretty much. I mean I would there say gutless to
somebody that and then would be two faced, but again
(01:35:44):
and would be would want to have there be first
in line for their autograph so they can go sell
it on eBay. Yeah right, I mean it's ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (01:35:53):
When you hear that a quarterback is in the last
week since Saturday, Okay, I have heard people say red
comments that so and so is trash worthless. Why is
he even here those kinds of things. And trust me
(01:36:18):
on this, okay, or all of our listeners, I want
you to hear this. Trust me. Every player who is
out at practice, busting his ass at six am, sweat equity,
playing hurt, it means more to him than it does
to you. Every coach whose livelihood is on the line here, yes,
(01:36:41):
whose kids have to hear this stuff at school, Yes,
it means more to them than it does.
Speaker 3 (01:36:47):
To you, and it ever will to a fan. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:36:50):
Yeah, if you don't like it, I get it. I understand.
And frustrating that you have to be there whin lose, lose, lose,
lose or lose and you can't.
Speaker 3 (01:37:00):
And you can be frustrated, We're all I mean, you
can be frustrated.
Speaker 1 (01:37:03):
You can even be apathetically.
Speaker 3 (01:37:05):
Yeah, you can even be angry if you want. We're
not telling you not to be that, We're not telling
you not to feel. But there's a way to handle that.
And going after one of the athletes on the internet
or through social media is not the right or a
coach or whoever it is, is not the right way
to do it.
Speaker 1 (01:37:22):
No, all, right, last thing before we bring in Steve Grimzell.
I will take a break, and.
Speaker 3 (01:37:28):
Yeah, we got to get Steve. He's got to pay
our bills, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (01:37:31):
He's in the car, Yeah, on the way to South
Bend to officiate a soccer game. Shock here, fifty one
fifty one years.
Speaker 3 (01:37:40):
I'm going to be I'm going to be fifty years
old next week. And he's been He's been officiating officiating
for fifty one years.
Speaker 1 (01:37:48):
Yes, ie go soccer, longer than you've been alive.
Speaker 3 (01:37:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:37:52):
So before we do that, I need to get a
prediction from you on baseball here. Okay, these teams that
lost a pair.
Speaker 3 (01:38:01):
Of home games, unbelievable, talking about.
Speaker 1 (01:38:04):
Toronto and Milwaukee, are they dead? Do either of them
win twice on the road and play another game this
season in their ballpark?
Speaker 3 (01:38:18):
They do? Neither of them win twice on the road.
Speaker 1 (01:38:21):
Okay, So you're saying that we were going to have
a Seattle LA World Series.
Speaker 3 (01:38:26):
I'm saying it. I'm saying it right here, right now. Yes, yeah,
all right, yeah, all right.
Speaker 1 (01:38:31):
I think you're right, but I'm not sure that one
of them won't.
Speaker 3 (01:38:35):
St I mean, who, who, who's there? Who would be
the one? I mean Toronto Toronto. You think Toronto would
take one.
Speaker 1 (01:38:42):
No, I'm saying they would. I say they could. Okay,
I don't think Milwaukee can win two out of three.
Speaker 3 (01:38:47):
And Dodgers, no, no, no, I agree with that. But
I man, I mean, and you can talk about momentum
all you want, whether you believe in that or not.
But boy, oh boy, Seattle whatever they have, yeah, yeah,
I mean, it's something you can call whatever the hell
you want, but it's don't.
Speaker 1 (01:39:03):
Get the trade deadline that Seattle is going to be
in the World Series.
Speaker 3 (01:39:06):
You did tell me that, You did say that.
Speaker 1 (01:39:08):
That drum. That's one of the few things in my
life I've gotten. Right, all right, We'll be right back and.
Speaker 3 (01:39:13):
Go check out some great Go check out some great
volleyball this weekend. It's the only thing. Yeah, excuse me, Friday, Yeah,
go check out some volleyball fans out there.
Speaker 1 (01:39:22):
All right. And if you want to see Jonathan Smith
and you have anything I want to say to him,
your chance today or.
Speaker 3 (01:39:30):
Just have some great ju jump a lie at one
normal how about that? How about that?
Speaker 1 (01:39:34):
Don't order it before I get there, because if they're out,
I'm gonna be upset. All right, we will be right
back with Steve Grinzell. Coming up on the drive with Jack.
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(01:42:40):
It is a drive with Jack the Spotlight Radio Network.
Jack Eblin here with my producer of Boston Rob Rob.
A lot of nostalgia talking about coaching changes today and
want to welcome in someone who's been through quite a
few of these. Maybe hasn't seen all of them that
(01:43:00):
I have, but you know he's got to be up
there close to double digit coaches for Michigan State. Want
to welcome in Steve Grinzell. You remember his work for
the Grand Rapids Press, for Booth News Service, m Live, MSU,
Spartans dot com and probably you've seen him on a
soccer field near you. Grands How are you?
Speaker 4 (01:43:21):
I'm doing good?
Speaker 1 (01:43:22):
Jack, You're on your way to a game in South
Bend in year fifty one.
Speaker 4 (01:43:28):
Right, Yes, I am going to only Cross College, which
is right across the street from Notre Dame.
Speaker 1 (01:43:37):
Wow, yes, I know where that is. Yes. So when
you think about all of the Michigan State teams you
have covered beginning in nineteen eighty six, did you ever
think we would see an MSU coach who could be
fired after nineteen or twenty games and not for wrong.
Speaker 4 (01:44:05):
Yeah? I don't. I guess we've We've covered coaches in
the hot seat for sure. It never seemed to be
Michigan State's mo O too uh terminate a coach during
the season. They seem to have a standard against that
(01:44:26):
of they have well, right, and he's the one that
certainly jumps out front. Whether that was performance on the
field based as more than you know, his uh management
of the team, or his his loss of control of
(01:44:49):
the team. You know, I don't know if if he
had been winning, that wouldn't have that it still might
have occurred because there was such a social cultural disruption
within the walls of the football building. So whether he
(01:45:12):
would have survived regardless, I don't know. But there was
a lot more going on there than just not producing
on the field.
Speaker 1 (01:45:22):
Yeah. So for fans who still think that Michigan State
is the school and the powerhouse it was in the
mid sixties. We have seen other than a blitpierer there
with George Purlis or Nick Saban and six amazing years
(01:45:45):
with Mark D'Antonio. This has been a five hundred program
for close to sixty years now, grins, and five hundred
isn't saying much when you get to pick three nine
conference games and you've got a lot of mac opponents
and Prairie views in there. Uh, you know, this is
(01:46:05):
not like a sudden departure from the norm. Mark d'antonio's
stint was the departure from the norm.
Speaker 4 (01:46:16):
Yeah, when you look back at Michigan State's history, there
seems to be I don't know, split personality, multiple personalities,
schizophrenia in the DNA of this program. If you go
back to the very beginning with pretty much, I mean
the beginning of Michigan State's ascension to a national prominence,
(01:46:42):
which came under Biggie mund You know, he had built
it into a national power, won national championships, and Duffy
took over and continued that momentum. That's yes, But you know,
(01:47:04):
after the sixty six season when Michigan State was mentioned
in the same breath as the Alabama's and Texas's and
Southern cols and every Notre Dame, you name it. I mean,
they were right there in that here group. Then Duffy
didn't continue the momentum. It slipped away. They foundered for years.
(01:47:30):
They got it back a little bit under Darryl Rogers,
couldn't keep the momentum really until George Peerlis came in
and had a five year planned, delivered on the planned,
delivered championships, national rankings, Rose.
Speaker 1 (01:47:50):
Bowl twelve years, Grants was sixty eight, sixty seven and five.
Speaker 4 (01:47:57):
Yeah, well us for whatever reason, George didn't maintain the momentum, right,
you know, they didn't continue, and I you know, maybe
it's hard for a place like Michigan State to do it.
You know, they don't have the name brand of Michigan
or Ohio State or or any of the big schools
(01:48:18):
that suffer these lulls better than others.
Speaker 1 (01:48:22):
You know.
Speaker 4 (01:48:22):
And then Nick comes in, and he certainly had the
program in the right direction. It wasn't like they were
winning everything in sight. But had he been retained or
they would have kept him, I don't think there's any
doubt that the program would have been you know, winning
in a very high level, right and then post Nick, yeah,
(01:48:47):
and you know, arguably one of the best teams of
the country, you know, a National championship caliber team, you know,
and then that goes by the wayside. The momentum wanes,
and then Mark D'Antonio comes in and does a phenomenal job,
and it really kind of developed the identity of the
(01:49:10):
program of being one that could develop players and uh
overachieve and over and then you know, all due respect
to Mark, he did a phenomenal job, but then the
momentum waned again. They couldn't maintain that momentum or whatever. Yes,
(01:49:31):
so that just seems to be the stock market ticket
ticker on Michigan State football. It goes up, it goes down,
it stays down, it rallies, you know, it's uh, it's
it's got to be hard to be in a Michigan
State fan seeing that the potential is there. They have
(01:49:52):
reached the potential, they've made it to the playoffs, they've
had they've been in the National championship conversation, and then
you know they're back to being mediocre five hundred or whatever.
So that's just Michigan State football. You know, in some
ways better than most because of what they've proved they
(01:50:15):
are capable of doing, and then more frustrating than most
because they just drop off the face of the earth.
Speaker 1 (01:50:23):
And every time there's a change, grins. You know. I said,
this is gonna be my fourteenth head coach. When it happens, wow,
you see something different. When Duffy retired, they looked at
Barry Switzer, nearly hired him, Johnny Majors, Lee Corso, and
(01:50:45):
the fourth candidate was a guy They picked Denny Stoltz
who'd been at Alma one Big there had been a
defensive coordinator briefly for Duffy, and so they went that route,
the smallest college route. Then they said, well that didn't work.
So they went out and got an offensive wizard from
(01:51:08):
the West Coast and that was a lot of fun
while it lasted, but but it could never sustain. And
he's still shivering the entire time. I'd never seen anybody
shiver in seventy five degree weather more than Darrell Rodgers.
Then they said, okay, well, you know, we got to
find somebody, and I think they were scared by George
(01:51:31):
and they took fifty seven year old Muddy Waters. Muddy
said he thought that was his middle name, fifty seven
year old Muddy Waters. And he was there three years.
That was pretty much an abject failure. Then they went
to George and that was pretty good for a while.
And then of course the headlines with the battle with
(01:51:51):
the president administration, the two jobs and everything that went
with that was led to the undoing. So you can
go through all these hires Grins. I mean, even when
uh Ron Mason could not get Marvin Lewis to commit
and wound up on recommendation of someone in the office
(01:52:14):
staffer to hire John L. Smith, you know, and then
they had the search and they got it right with Antonio.
But when that failed and it was uh you know,
he left at the worst possible time. They weren't no options.
(01:52:35):
And Bill Beakman was the a D at that point.
Alan Haller was his second command, and they wound up
with Mel Tucker didn't get Luke Fickel Wisconsin wishes they
had and we know what happened with Mel. And then
(01:52:57):
Jonathan and he was Haller's guy. I mean, he did
a full press on this and it was a one
man search and thought that he had just found a
coach who was going to be D'Antonio two point zero,
and here we are, you know, eighteen games in and
you know, people are already putting for sales signs in
(01:53:17):
front of his house. So, you know, what is the
answer for Michigan State? What do they do?
Speaker 4 (01:53:27):
You know, we've both spent a lot of time and
brain cells debating, you know, what does Michigan State need?
You know, I think some of the if you do
the if you would plot of graph and look at
(01:53:47):
success based on backround, you know, and then included background
and heritage and all those kinds of things. You know,
it seems like the guys that do best or have
had success at Michigan State have been kind of homegrown
entities that were into the program in some way, shape
(01:54:11):
or form, not necessarily Michigan State grands but our former players,
but maybe coach there were ingrained into the community, the culture,
understood the the foibles of Michigan State and the skeletons
in the closets and all those kinds of things, and
(01:54:34):
you know, those have had the best success. I always
shuddered when they these searches would become far flung, and
you know, let's get the guy from what was his name,
Botelli or he was the hot number. And I'm like,
why would you want a West Coast guy to come
to the Midwest and drop him in here and think
(01:54:57):
he can succeed? I mean, you know, and it's different now, granted,
but back then, it was like, how is this guy
gonna recruit Detroit? You know, how is he going to
get relationships with the public school league and the Catholic
League and you know, and that was really important back
(01:55:18):
when recruiting high school prospects was number one, two and three.
Now it's a lot different, I grant you that, but
I still think Michigan State does better when it stays
inside the family. So who are the candidates? You know,
(01:55:42):
a name that I have not heard mentioned ever, at
least in a very long time. We're in the context
of any recent searches is Pat Sherman. And I don't
understand why he isn't someone that wouldn't be a good fit. Well,
you're abound a.
Speaker 1 (01:56:02):
College football head coach. He has had two failed tenures
in the National Football League and he's now the offensive
coordinator at Colorado. And you know, there were times when
I think that it just wasn't a good fit. He'd
just gotten an NFL job or something, you know, so
he had a commitment at timing never seem to line
(01:56:23):
up for Pat, you know. But there are some other
names you mentioned, and you know, we talk about far
flung Jay Bats, guy he hired at Georgia Tech, Brent Key.
You know, he's got he's got them up to number
twelve in the nation, undefeated, and so you know, he's
a hot name. He's gonna have a lot of options.
(01:56:46):
And then you think about other Midwest guys grins, and
you know, I think PJ. Fleck, who's won double digit
games at Minnesota, that's hard to do. He would be
happy to entertain a job back in Michigan with more potential,
I think than they have with the Gophers. Now. It
doesn't mean Minnesota won't wax in Michigan State on November first,
(01:57:07):
But and you think about you know, I don't think
they're going to try to make another run at Luke Fickel,
although Wisconsin would probably drive him to the airport right now.
But I have three other names here. I want to
run by you and get your take on. Okay, A
lot of people think that Matt Rule is going to
(01:57:29):
go from Nebraska back home to Penn State where he played.
That leaves a job at Nebraska, and there's talk that,
you know, maybe James Franklin will go there just be
a trade Nebraska and Penn State. But if you were
in Michigan State, would you want James Franklin? Would you
be interested in? Go ahead? Would you would you want
(01:57:50):
James Franklin?
Speaker 4 (01:57:52):
He does not do much for me. I know, I'm
not a You know, he had all the resources in
the world in a blue blood program and he couldn't
deliver there. I don't what makes anybody think he's in
a delivery at Michigan State although they are both lang
(01:58:14):
Grand colleges.
Speaker 1 (01:58:15):
That's right, well, and he has had five eleven win
seasons and last year he was with one play, one
bad throw by Drew Aller being in the National Championship game.
What about two other Pats, not Pat Shermer, What about
Pat Nardoozi who was winning again at pitt Seems he wins, wins, big, loses, wins,
(01:58:36):
keeps his job. Do you think that he's viable or
or Pat Fitzgerald, who's largely been exonerated. Now the scandal,
hazing scandal at Northwestern. It cost him his job and
made him one hundred million dollars richer. You know, he
talks about wanting to get in. He's still a very
young guy. He's only fifty years old. He was the
(01:58:57):
youngest coach in college football when he took over that program.
Fits we know has a ton of energy. I can
still hear him screaming go Cats every time he gave
a speech. Would you like to see what Fitzgerald could
do here? He didn't turn down the University of Michigan twice?
Or would you like to try to find the Tom
(01:59:19):
Izzo of college football? And everyone says the guy is
the best recruiter in the country. He's now the offensive
coordinator at Ohio State. You'd have to wait a long
time because I think the Buckeys are going to be
in this playoff to the end. But he could be
a two time national champion. And that's Brian Hartline. So
who's the needle for you?
Speaker 4 (01:59:40):
I'm a big pet in ardoozy Sam. I loved covering him.
I think he's you know, I don't know if he
wants to come back. I mean he's home now, right,
So and I don't think. I don't know that Michigan
State ever. I think he was here. I think he
(02:00:01):
was all in, But I don't think this was a
destination job for him. So I would make a phone
call to see if things have changed. But you know, yeah,
call him up and see what he has to say.
And I think he could get the job.
Speaker 1 (02:00:20):
And he is.
Speaker 4 (02:00:20):
Totally the guy that translates at Michigan State, you know,
kind of a blue collar guy, knows to the grindstone,
a little bit gruff yep papist Gerald I think is
a terrific coach. I think he would be ultramotivated to
work his tail off and do whatever he could to
(02:00:43):
have success in the Big ten with a Michigan State.
And I think Michigan State lines up well in terms
of resources and facilities and everything. I think they check
our rebox. Why wouldn't he want to come here, you know,
And if Michigan's hat at them and like them, you know,
that's a pretty good endorsement headline. You know. The recruiting
(02:01:10):
is the name of the game, and I think knowing
how to do it in this new environment would have
to be a number one consideration. I think that's why
the guy at Georgia Tech is probably someone that you
would want to look at too, because you've got to
understand this system and how to make it work. And
(02:01:33):
you're not going to give a five year plan like
George Burlish. You know, you've got to produce right away
and get talented. And the other thing is that you know,
I don't I don't have a reading on the donor
fatigue at Michigan State, but I got to believe that
guys that say, Okay, I'm going to pony up the
(02:01:55):
money to pay some kid to come in here as
a freshman or get him as a sophomore or and
they're not going to be there when they're a junior
or senior. I mean, you know, I hear a lot
of donors are really watching that now in terms of jeez,
I invested in this guy. Uh he's developing. Oh now
(02:02:17):
he's going to Mississippi State or Arizona State or wherever.
So those are all considerations that are in the business office,
the AD's office, and you know, find a guy that
understands that the best and as a good coach.
Speaker 1 (02:02:37):
Grant, thanks so much for your input on this. I'm
sure we'll talk about this again, and not too many
yellow cards tonight.
Speaker 4 (02:02:45):
Okay, I'll try not to, you know, and I hope. I
don't know what John Jonathan Smith's future is. Uh, you know,
we're already kind of burying him here, and uh, I
don't know. Maybe there's a chance something changes. But I
(02:03:06):
feel for these guys. Yeah, you know, I guess I
just wouldn't want someone that you can throw a bunch
of money at and they say they're coming. I think
they gotta find first and foremost, they gotta find someone
that wants to be at Michigan State. That's number one
with a bullet.
Speaker 1 (02:03:24):
You know what. One of the best jobs in the
country is grants besides the ones that we've had. A
fired college football coach at a major program. Jonathan Smith
is in line for a thirty two buyout.
Speaker 4 (02:03:39):
Yeah, yeah, I don't feel too sorry.
Speaker 1 (02:03:42):
No, let's not have a benefit for the guy. You know.
It's all right, Thanks so much. We'll talk to you soon.
I want to thank all of our guests today, rob
starting with Steven Brooks. He's with us every Wednesday or
almost every Wednesday, talking Michigan State football and basketball, and
(02:04:05):
he's pretty definitive about his take on this and doesn't
see any way out now. A lot of people agree
with him. After the UCLA game, that was a point
of no return, even though there were a lot of
people who didn't want Jonathan Smith here from the beginning
and it would have taken an awful lot to win
him over. Now that seems to be almost impossible. Let's
(02:04:27):
see if he can prove everybody wrong. Even that might
not be enough. I want to thank Bill Better, long
time sportswriter, one of the best in the Midwest, where
the Indianapolis Star worked for the Indiana Sports Commission for
years After that, I use season ticket holder filling us
in on what the Kurt Signetti here is all about.
(02:04:48):
And Steve Grinzell MSHU historian and author see tomorrow. Everyone
have a great night.
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