* Matt Wenzel, covers Michigan State Football & Men's Basketball for MLive.com

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Jack Kambling here with my good friend Matt Sloan a
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Speaker 2 (00:05):
That's right, Jack. We got the summer savings going on
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Great deals. We're offering zero percent financing on select vehicles
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It's been a great summer. We got great deals for.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
You zero percent. Can't get much flower than that. That's
exactly right, Papacy. Matt in the gang here on West
Grand River, Okamiz, they're making breads. This is it right here.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
Combining a team of reporters, columnists and commentators, Are you serious?
Jack Gabling has brought thought provoking discussion.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
What are you doing? That's a day in coaching? The
same opinion. Customer is the one who decides when the
future gets here? Oh?

Speaker 3 (00:51):
No, ships up.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
To check to report?

Speaker 3 (00:57):
Are you kidding me? That?

Speaker 1 (00:58):
Games next and overall infotainment after Kimarva, Who is Greeze?

Speaker 3 (01:04):
Coming?

Speaker 1 (01:08):
Quiet?

Speaker 3 (01:08):
Please and exactly fifteen seconds we'll be on the air. Thanks,
big fella.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
Don't you ever come back here again. No arguments. Those
are called ashtans. So buckle up. Are you talking to me?
It's time for the Drive with Jack Ebling. Yeah. For
some reason or another, who signed a little Cola Radio.
Great afternoon mid Michigan and beyond, and welcome to the

(01:32):
Drive with Jack. It is the Spotlight Radio Network. Jack
Ebling here with my producer Boston Rob on a sunny
Monday afternoon. Pretty nice for the first week in November.
Very breezy, some wind gus up to thirty miles an hour,
but fifty four degrees. I guess you'll take that. We
have tons to talk about, Rob. How about the Lions

(01:55):
with that loss yesterday to Minnesota. Not a great weekend
if you had to play Minnesota. And we have the
World Series to talk about, one of the most memorable
that I can recall, and that goes back to the
late fifties. But we do have Michigan State basketball with
the regular season opener tonight against Colgate, and we want

(02:17):
to talk about the Spartans and their game against the
Golden Gophers and what's ahead with our first guest, Matt
Wensol from m Live. He was there in Minneapolis man,
if you had to convey in twenty five words or
less Michigan State's performance, and you don't need to give
him a letter grade, but you ken, if you like,

(02:38):
how would you assess what you saw Saturday afternoon and
early evening.

Speaker 3 (02:44):
I mean, if you're if you're a fan, I would
say that, you know, you're just incredibly frustrated. It's maybe
they should have won that game by multiple scores, you know,
it's that's just the way it was. I mean, the defense,
all things can center, played pretty well. I mean they
didn't give up a point between what about nine minutes
to go in the first half until the last thirty

(03:07):
seconds of the game. I mean, you got to you
got to win that. I mean, unless you know, I
got played well. He looked ready. But you know, when
you when you can't, when you're not scoring touchdowns, it's
going to come back to haunt you, you know too
miss field goals. So the opportunity was there, you know,
on a platter, for them to shake out of that
you know, losing streak and get a win heading into

(03:29):
a buy and they left it and that's you know,
just been that kind of season.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
Was it the best you have seen Michigan State play
this season. I know they've won three games, but you
look back at those three and they weren't that appetizing.

Speaker 3 (03:47):
Yeah, I mean probably, i'd say, you know, but again
famous every day week, you know, getting all three phases
like it's just you know, it's every week. You know,
something here or something there. You know, you know it's again.
The defense, I thought, did a pretty pretty good job,
you know, holding just three hundred yards and go about

(04:10):
sixty some of those on the last drive after you know,
they gifted them thirsty cards and penalties. The offense moved
the ball pretty well, you know forarder and sixty or
whatever it was yards, but got a score. I mean
the the you know, slight underthrow to Marsh on what
should have been a touchdown. You're thinking, oh well whatever,

(04:31):
you're right there, punch it and move on. And you
don't you know, when you get an eighty five yard
run or whatever it was from Cows Tolliver tackle right
before the goal line, Oh well you know you'll score,
you know.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
I mean, it's just they did get in on that one, right,
They did get in on the second. I not on
the marsh catch.

Speaker 3 (04:53):
Yeah, I can't remember I think that Marston was the
midfield goal, that was the twenty three yarder, and then
cow Tolliver was yes, what tallest, Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah,
just there's chances are there and they haven't been able
to capitalize on them. That's why you have a team
three and six that could easily be what you know,

(05:17):
could have won in Nebraska, should have won in Nebraska maybe, Yeah,
I mean Ucla if you just show up that day, geez,
you give yourself a chance, and then that game, so
you know they're they're leaving wins out there, and that
obviously isn't helping. Jonathan Smith.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
There were some games, as you say, Matt, that Michigan
State could have won. You mentioned a couple could have
beaten Michigan if maybe calls have gone differently and they
played a little bit better. But this was the first
time where I said they really should have won. If
you watch this game and you look at the scoreboard
at the end, and again when you lead by seven

(05:57):
points with less than two minutes to go, it probably
helps to have a kickoff staying in bounced.

Speaker 3 (06:04):
That would be a good place to start, you know,
and not get a face mask quickly after that I mean,
I am not going to knock to Jordan Hall of
his accident. He played his ass off being hurt, you know,
just one of those things that happens and then you know,
and then the calls go a little sideways. But you
put yourself in the position for that to happen in

(06:24):
a game that you should have you should have been
able to walk out with, you know, with kneeling out
the clock with a multi score victory. Instead do you?
And I still still don't know what the hell that was.
I don't you know how you you throw the flag,
you market, You put the ball up the three yard line,
and then all of a sudden, wait a minute, hold on,

(06:45):
let's just wipe that out now four and three instead
of first in goal. I mean, I don't mean to me,
that reminded me of a lion that at Dallas in
the playoffs or marsh you know, the the yeah, the
pass interveerings call, you know, and pedigrew or whatever. Yeah,
it's one of those really weird situations. Again, it wasn't

(07:09):
incredibly egregious, but there was a poll, get through the flag,
your market, and then you pull it back. I don't
get that. But again, you know, good teams find ways
to win and bad teams find ways to lose. And
there's no doubt which one machine state which category they're
sitting in this year.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
So what was the biggest problem? And we have a
list in terms of pass protection in the first half
with the sicker sacks. Made some adjustments, but frankly, Matt,
I don't know how that wasn't allowed for before the game.
You know, the one thing Minnesota can do, okay, if

(07:51):
they can do nothing else, it's rushed the passer. They
had nine sacks against Nebraska, So why was the new quarterback?
Would you have five or seven step drops all the time,
no tunnel screens, no shovel passes, nothing to really slow
up that d line. When your offensive line as as
shaky as it is, it's kind of like malpractice to

(08:16):
put your quarterback out there like that.

Speaker 3 (08:19):
Yeah, I mean, obviously don't understand some of that. I mean,
he was I mean it was not well. I mean, honestly,
you know, a halftime, you know they're thinking like are
they going to be are they going to march him
back out there for this or are they going to
go to Aiden because at least Aiden can protect themself
by move right, you know, and Alessio we didn't know.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
That he was the big ten had said he's.

Speaker 3 (08:42):
Look bugged down.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yeah, we didn't know that because we did see Aiden
Childs come out there for the last what two snaps
for the.

Speaker 3 (08:50):
First just the one you just he just handed it
off the tullest, I believe, and they went into the
locker room. But yeah, I mean, so he took he
took quite a meeting. I took their credit. You know,
they they cleaned it up after halftime. You know, he
was they did a better job protecting him, and some
of that was with the play calls and of that
was you know, just what they were doing. You know,
they were moving the ball, running the ball, you know,

(09:12):
some chunk plays. And I mean, as far as the
biggest problem, yeah, hass protection was awful as the first
time this year. They got shut out in the first half,
and I mean pretty pretty big reason why he couldn't,
you know, stay up right, and he can't keep going
schedule obviously, So I mean the red zone again, you know,
you got to score touchdowns in there, and they had

(09:34):
been pretty good this season obviously, and now you know
that didn't that didn't happen. So those two stand out,
you know, just major missed opportunity there in the red
zone and scoring, and you know they should have scored
more than twenty points and more than seventeen in regulation.
You know they should have obviously repeating myself basically at

(09:56):
this point, but you know they did enough offensively to
win games and defensively.

Speaker 1 (10:03):
Matt when a team has such a minuscule margin for error,
has enough trouble beating opponents. So one thing I can't
do is beat itself, and Michigan State has shown an
amazing propensity for that the past two weeks. And I
think Jonathan Smith is really tired of me asking that question.

(10:24):
But twenty two penalties twelve against Michigan ten Saturday for
more than two hundred yards and opponents have had eight
penalties for under one hundred yards. You can do the
math on that, but the penalties, four of them after
they took the lead, three on the time drive, and

(10:45):
then the one in overtime really tough for any team
that's working in the margins to win when you have
that kind of generosity.

Speaker 3 (10:58):
Yeah, yeah, I mean this can't have it, can't. I
mean the Michigan game that was there was some of
the app for the whistles, you know, Gosh and Andrew
Dennis if I remember right, But this game it was
it wasn't that. It was just you know, on the
field screw ups. I mean, you know some of its exits.
You know, guys are playing hard, I don't not trying

(11:20):
to sabotage their team with some you know, mental uh
breakdowns with the penalties. It's just not being clean and
you know maybe not you know, calls are going to
sometimes go against you, some questionable ones and been a
few of those, well FISA the last two games, you know,
a couple of big calls that that could have changed
the game that they did they were on the wrong

(11:41):
end does and that's just the way it works out sometimes.
But they you know, again, like you said, they're not
they're not good enough to to you know, kill themselves
in these ways with self inflicted errors and expect to
be successful.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
Two games in Jonathan Smith's a season and three quarters
last year at Michigan this year at Minnesota, both losses
to U of M. Both times Michigan State having edges
and rushing passing first downs, time of possession you name it,
statistically owning the game, but having the penalty problems. Last

(12:26):
year against Michigan it was six to zero and both
games missing a very short field goal last year arguably
by Michigan State's best player, Jonathan Kim and this game,
we know what happened with Martin Coynton. When you have
those kinds of problems, you have to be so good elsewhere.

(12:52):
And I don't know if Michigan State has a player
who would be first team All Big ten. I think
maybe maybe Ryan Eckley would be, certainly statistically he had
a game or two where he wasn't great. Jordan Hall
I think would have to get some consideration, but probably

(13:12):
for second team. Other than that, not a lot there
to pick from. And I don't know how much of
that goes back to the problems of the Tucker Barnett tenure.
How much of it is the players who were recruited.
We know what the recruiting rankings were. How much of

(13:33):
it were problems getting players they wanted into portal. We
know that some of the money was not there as promised,
although Jonathan Smith is doing everything he can not to
talk about that. With those things, Michigan State is starting
the game at a disadvantage and then it's preceding to
zip tie its own hands behind its back.

Speaker 3 (13:59):
Yeah, I mean there was. And you go back and
you look in the off season at the roster and
how they addressed it. To me, the biggest concern that
they had going into the season that they didn't really
address with a splash was obviously a fast rush. Yeah,
you know they last year it was bad. You know,

(14:20):
it's six straight games or seven just something ridiculous without
a sack. Yes, yes, you know they had the guys
from the portal, you know, but you know, as far
as looking for a guy to really make a splash,
they didn't do that. And so you you saw that
the group was coming into the season and you thought, well,
that doesn't look too promising. And that's you know, it's

(14:41):
the case that you know, they have not been able
to consistently get after the quarterback, and I mean, they're
not going to help you.

Speaker 1 (14:50):
You know.

Speaker 3 (14:50):
I thought their secondary had held up pretty well the
last couple of weeks, you know, held Michigan under one
hundred yards passing and you know, decent on Saturday, I
don't remember there being many real coverage buses. But I mean,
you saw what happen in the first half. I mean,
getting after the quarterback does some things. He saw what happen.

(15:11):
I mean, there's a reason Aden Childs was bench. Part
of it. I think goes to you know, he was
getting just absolutely hammered and that rattled him and spent
you know, and you just the progress you make you
go backwards and that. So you're not getting after the quarterback,
everything's going to be obviously a lot more difficult for you.
And if you're not getting after the quarterbacks, your odds
of creating eternal leaders are probably are going to be

(15:33):
exponentially lower. And there, I mean, it's just they go
hand in hand. And that's where Michigan State's at right now.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
Yeah, they talk about complimentary football, Matt, it's complimentary losing
football as well. And Michigan State with just six takeaways
before the year, three fumble recoveries, three interceptions, none by
a cornerback, only one by a deep the other two

(16:01):
five linebackers. So that says a lot. Do you think
we have seen the last meaningful snap. I'm not talking
about coming in at the end of the half. If
someone goes in the tent or at the end of
the game in a mop up situation. But do you
think we have seen the last snap in the first

(16:22):
three quarters as a Michigan State spartan for Aiden Childs.

Speaker 3 (16:30):
Yeah? Probably. I mean, once you make the move, you know,
I you know, I think we talked about this last week.
I wouldn't have been surprised, if you know, if Alessio
got a shot early at Minnesota, Aiden struggled again. I
didn't think they were going to start him, but it

(16:51):
wasn't not a shock, But that's a big move. You know,
he's a guy you spent years fruiting to Oregon State.
You hit your wagon to him and vice versa. Coming
to Michigan State. You know, you do everything well, I mean,
you trying to make him successfully as a captain, and

(17:13):
you know, it just wasn't working. Obviously, there's a tremendous
amount of pressure on the staff and you know, to win.
So they rolled the dice, and you know, I thought that,
you know, I thought Aiden gave him the best chance
to win prior to Saturday, because you know, I didn't
know what what Alessio would do and in that situation,

(17:34):
but I thought he looked pretty good. He looked poised,
did a better job keeping them on schedule, was accurate
for the most part, didn't didn't cough up the ball.
I mean, those are things you need to win. Also,
you know, again the slight under throat of marsh I
think on the after the first in goal they had,

(17:54):
I thought you had help Haliver open uh a window,
hit him for a touchdown before trying to scramble it.
Just there are little mistakes there that you know that
are the difference in winning and losing. And if you
don't have a tremendous amount of you know, wiggle room
to operate with, if you can't afford that, And you

(18:16):
know they had guys, you know, Alessio stepped up Rodney
Bullard who had what one catch for seventeen yards coming
into the game, he had four for over one hundred
with that seventy one yard or.

Speaker 1 (18:29):
Caliver in the year that was it.

Speaker 3 (18:31):
Yeah, yeahs Oliver had you know, Mortan doubled his production
for the season. You had guys all over the place
doing things. But again, I mean keep repeating myself, but
you know they just they don't have the margins for
air to to afford to overcome the outsetting mistakes.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
Michigan stay with a week off ideally would get a
little healthier. I suppose you could get injuries, and practic
you can get injuries walking around campus. But if you
assume Michigan State is going to be a little healthier
than they were Saturday, and they're playing a Penn State
team which is in total disrepair, coaching change already, starting

(19:19):
quarterback out Andrew Aller, lots of problems in state college,
just got hammered by Ohio State, especially in the second half.
Now Penn State faces Is it Oregon or Indiana this week?

Speaker 3 (19:39):
Indiana?

Speaker 1 (19:41):
It's Indiana, It's Indiana. Well that's yeah. You go from
playing the Buckeyes to the team that might be even
better in IU and then coming in here, you'd have
to say certainly that a win is in the realm
of the possible for Michigan State. Then they go on
the road to Iowa City. I don't know anyone who

(20:02):
thinks that that's going to be fun. Playing in Kinnick.
Never is. But then coming back and facing Maryland at
Ford Field. A lot of speculation yesterday, In fact, there
were some rumors that there had been a coaching change.
Do you think Michigan State can win a game more

(20:24):
than one game or have they seen their last victory.

Speaker 3 (20:29):
I mean, if they show up and play like they
did at Minnesota they did against Michigan, yeah, they can
win one of those games. Two of those maybe, you know,
Penn States winnable, Maryland winnable. I don't see them going
on just win by any stretch. But as long as
they if they show up and play hard like they have,
then yes you can win. You should have won last week.

(20:51):
You know, they could have, you know, been in the
game again, you know, beat Michigan potentially, you know, if
the efforts there, As long as they don't show up
looking like the team that came out and played UCLA,
I you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a chance to win.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:07):
That was what you actually put money on him. Yeah yeah,
that was I mean, that's what's be honest. That's what
ramped up the Smith speculation was the team that came
out didn't look like it wanted to play, and that
was the biggest problem Solf.

Speaker 1 (21:24):
There are a number of fans, a significant number, who
have cast judgment on Jonathan Smith, and maybe they did
when he was hired. Maybe they did after the Michigan
game last year, or the Rutgers game, or the UCLA game.
The fact now that at oh to six, with that

(21:44):
Rutgers game, they've lost seven straight in the Big Ten.
Michigan State has never had more than seven conference losses
in a season that didn't involve forfeits. Uh certainly headed
in that direction to at least tie it. When you
look at that, Is there anything that Jonathan Smith can

(22:04):
do at this point? Let's say his team plays well
and beats Penn State and puts up a big fight
representative showing something would make a lot of people say
proud of that effort at Iowa City and comes back
and beats Maryland and finishes five and seven, so close

(22:25):
to the minimum baseline goal of making a bowl game,
and you can look at one of the plays Saturday
as being the reason they didn't. Is there anything can
change Jonathan Smith's fate? Or is he dead man walking?

Speaker 3 (22:43):
Can? I can I give you my usual top out
of I don't know, I just don't. It doesn't I mean,
it doesn't seem like it just because there's nobody in
there's nobody out from you know, banging the drum supporting
them I mean he's not you know, he's just out
there dangling in the winds taking all the shots. And

(23:05):
other than tom Izzo, you know kind of you know,
town fands to be patient and all that. I mean,
where's he getting the support from. I'm not seeing it.
I'm not seeing it from the casual fans. I'm not
hearing it from any of the big you know, the
big names that would seem to be able to sway decisions.
But again, we don't really know Jay Batt. You know,

(23:26):
he's only been here since June. He's remained quiet, you know,
just working in the background, observing, and so I don't
know they have the money, I don't you know, is
somebody going to cough it up? And even if they do,
where are you at right now? Who are you going
to hire? You know, every week there's new jobs opening,
and let's be honest, some of them are frankly, much

(23:48):
more appealing than Michigan State. What coach are you get?
Are you going to fire Jonathan Smith? Pay the more
than thirty million dollars to get out of it, just
to go take a stay, have at a you know,
your fourth choice coach and hope it works this time.
Only to be back in the same damn spot two
years from now, right right, I mean, I know, I

(24:10):
know the pressure to win now, and I know Jonathan
he doesn't do himself any favors with the fan base
just because of how he is as a person. He's
not this bombastic personality on the sideline waving his arms around,
screaming fans. You know, they want to see that. Now
you win, you can be yeah, you know, be boring
as what. But he just and that's unfortunate because I

(24:33):
think he's a good guy. You know, he's a nice
guy and seems all that stuff and staff. It's just
that's not in his personality. And when you're losing, you know,
people want to see a little fire and just not
how he's wired.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah, Matt, I said to someone, what's the best thing
you can say about Jonathan Smith? And after a pretty
long silence, guy says, well, he's not an ass. He's
not a jerk, he said, but I kind of want one.
I want someone out there who you know is going

(25:10):
to complain about a call once in a while, or
emote once in a while, or chase an official into
the locker room, or you know, just rip somebody. That
demeanor I think works against him, especially with the fans.
I don't know whether it works with him or against
him with his team. And you wonder how many of

(25:31):
the players have checked out or have already said, Hey,
I'm out of here if this guy stays or whatever.
But when you look at where he is right now,
it's kind of a no win situation for him and
for Michigan State. As you say, where are you going
to come up with the money for the buyout? If
you don't, then how many people are going to renew

(25:53):
season tickets? How many donors are going to say, we're
not contributing for this product. So you know, if you
get the money, then you have to burn it on
his buyout unless you get a break and somehow a
UCLA comes in and hires him away. But that's not likely.

(26:17):
So Michigan State is kind of between the rock and
a hard place. Here. Let's talk very quickly about tonight
in Michigan State basketball, beginning another season after a tremendous
surprise a year ago. Even in Maui, I can tell
you the last game the day before Thanksgiving against North Carolina,

(26:37):
no one would have said that this team would be
thirty and seven and win to Big Ten by three
games and be that close to making another Final four.
What do you make of this team with what you
have seen in to exhibition games and what you saw
this summer or what you've observed in practice. What's the

(26:59):
sealing and what's the floor for this team?

Speaker 3 (27:04):
The ceiling I mean yeah, I mean the ceiling could
be another I mean a Final four. Why well not?
You know, I thought we thought they were going to
be six point shy of one last year, So why not,
you know? And the floor is probably you know, one
of those kind of on the bubbles at the end
of the season, but not really feeling threatened to get

(27:27):
into to continue the tournament street. I think, you know,
a lot of it's going to depend on what I mean,
we know where that who's going to lead this team?
That's not a question. It's for the four returning veterans,
the captains, you know, Jeremy Fears, it's his his show,
you know, with with Cohen and Jackson and Cooper. Uh

(27:50):
but what are they going to get in the two guard?
And how are they going to shoot from outside? Because
they those two things obviously are intertwined, and you lost
basically all your three point shooting from last year, and
you got a little bit. You know, you do have
a toss up right now between Kurt Tang and Trey
Ford at the two, and you know, you know, Kurt
is trying to you know, play a big role, which

(28:11):
he hadn't done. You know, he was womited time as
a freshman last year and and Trey's on his six
school in as many years, so he's been new to
the system. And so I think that's the one spot
that's in flux right there is the two guard. They're
gonna they'll figure that out. But you know, you like
what you see early and flashes from the freshmen. Those
guys look like they're both going to contribute. And then

(28:35):
you know what Jesse mccaullay. You know this guy that's
he's a big guy that can that can stretch the
floor with his shots. So you know, there are some
interesting pieces there. I think this is going to be.
It would be a fun team to see how it develops.
You know, I like I like I like Jeremy as
a point guard. You know, he's got that a little
bit of an edge. You know, he's fiery guy, and

(28:59):
you know, he's he's what you want running your offense.
I mean, there's a reason I like Trey. There's a
reason Trey transferred out was because it's going to be Jeremy's,
you know, Jeremy's jobs. So he'll he'll be key in
what they do. But I think they'll be He'll be
fun to watch. You know, you're gonna get some some
pretty good tests early. You go from Colgate to Arkansas,

(29:21):
you play Duke in New York, you know you got sorry,
you play Kentucky in New York, you host Duke. Yeah,
and this team's got to you know, it's going to
be an interesting first month of the season for sure.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
Yeah. You wonder what this team would look like if
Trey Hallaman had stayed, and maybe he would have been
the two guard alongside Jeremy. He had several hundred thousand
dollars worth of reasons to leave if he wanted to
do that, and the idea of playing point. But I
understand he's coming off the bench now or playing some
some two there too at North Carolina State. So it

(29:58):
is what it is, and we will find out a
lot more tonight against Colgate. I will see you over
at Breslyn in a couple of hours. Matt, thanks so
much for joining us.

Speaker 3 (30:07):
No problem season, Jay.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
Matt Wenzel from m Live. We talked to him for
hours about Michigan State football and basketball. When we get back,
Bob Trippy will join us our director of research. He
was just in upstate, New York. He was at the
Bills Chiefs