* Mike Pearson, Big Ten Football Historian

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
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Speaker 1 (00:28):
Stop and see Matt in the gang here on West
Grand River, Okamiz. They're making friends. Welcome back. It is
a drive with Jack the Spotlight a radio network and

(00:48):
Jack Eveling here with my producer, a Boston Rob in
studio today. Been have some special guests in studio a
little bit later.

Speaker 3 (00:56):
Rob.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
That's the plan anyway, want to go back to our
guest line. Very happy, Welcome in. Old friends from Saint John's,
Michigan and grew up with Lynn Henning. We're talking about
Mike Pearson. Mike, you used to know all the tigers
batting stances. How many of them? Can you do today.

Speaker 4 (01:19):
Let me think none, none, probably none, No, No, I
see now I don't see the games. You know when
I saw those games back in nineteen sixty one, You know,
when you watched one of those games, it was somehow
embedded in your brain. You know what they did. The

(01:41):
Rocky Colavito point, yes, the Norm Cash kind of wigo,
et cetera. The Dick mccalliff stance, you know those. But
today I don't see as many of those games. I
think I could imitate Riley Green, but that's about it.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
Well, so we're going to try to imitate experts here
for the next few minutes. And we just did an
exercise picking Michigan State's best quarterbacks. And I'm going back
through what we did, Mike, and we were pretty close
on four guys. That's it. After that, we had a

(02:25):
lot of guys we mentioned, but some of them were
on your honorable mention, some of them were on mine.
We both had Connor Cook number one.

Speaker 4 (02:35):
Let me say that you saw the great majority of
these in person. I saw most of them in person,
but only on one or two occasions. And you know
you saw them game after games. So I'm going to
go with your list over minds.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Well, you had some guys who neither of us saw
in Tom you sick. You had him very high on
your list, gem Glick, you had him high on your list.
Jim Nanowski. I saw him as a Lion's quarterback, but
not as a Michigan State quarterback. And the same with
Earl Moral, although Earl was a first team All American
and he was number four on both of our lists.

(03:13):
So the only guys we had in the same spot
were Connor Cook number one and Earl Moral number four.
But if you put our list together, okay, and you
give him one point for first and ten points per second,
the idea is it's like cross country low score wins.
The number one quarterback is clearly Connor Cook number two,

(03:34):
and he averaged two point five. So he was second
on my list and third on yours. Is Kirk Cousins
four wins over Michigan. I should speak volume. Is the
only guy who can say that.

Speaker 4 (03:46):
Number to turn here this week?

Speaker 1 (03:49):
By the way, Yes, and if you need a loan,
he's a good guy to talk with.

Speaker 4 (03:52):
He's sure.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
It was a couple three hundred million dollars. Earl Morral,
we both had fourth, but he slides into third on
our list, and number four is ed Smith. Eddie was
five on my list and sixth on yours, so he
averages five point five that's his average ranking. And then
from then on it's a kind.

Speaker 4 (04:15):
Of pick the poet.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
That's right, that's right. We had Tom Musick, Drew Stanton,
Jim Nanowski, Jeff Smoker, and then tied for ninth were
Steve Judey and Bill Burke. So interesting list. But when
we do the running backs, I think this is going
to be even more challenging. I've made a list here,
and I said, how silly was I to even suggest

(04:42):
we do this?

Speaker 4 (04:43):
I know?

Speaker 1 (04:44):
Do you have some honorable mentions here before you get
to your top ten?

Speaker 4 (04:49):
Here's who didn't. Here are the all Americans who aren't
even on my didn't even make honorable mention? How about
for all Americans Art Brands editor Johnny Pingle, Don mccauliffe,
who had a heck of a year in fifty two,
Leroy Bolden in fifty three, Wal Kohalchik in fifty seven,

(05:12):
and George SAMs in sixty two. They didn't make my
They didn't make my honorable mention list. They didn't make
so okay, okay, and they were all Americans.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
Yeah, was a Heisman finalist.

Speaker 4 (05:26):
By the way. Yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right. So
my my, my honorable mentions. And this is a guy
who I hated to leave off, but I just he
just didn't quite make it for me, which was Squirm
and Sherman Lewis. And I loved Lewis. I love you

(05:51):
he was, but you know he had Uh he was
one of the more exciting players I ever saw, especially
in youth. Uh. Another guy who who didn't make my
list who I hated to leave off was T J. Duckett.
That was one that that was a tough one for me.

(06:14):
I didn't put his brother on my list. Another guy
who followed a superstar was Blake Esor. Yeah, he doesn't
mean in the late eighties, didn't made my autiable mention list,
didn't make my jau Calcrik was another one. Yeah. And
Richie Bay. Richie Bay one of my favorites. Uh, you

(06:37):
know in those in those seventies years, to want a
word with.

Speaker 1 (06:42):
You if you come back to a game. Now he's
in the broadcast, blas.

Speaker 4 (06:46):
I know that, and I give and I gave great
credit to those guys. But you asked for a top ten.
Mine's actually I put a tie for tents. Uh So
if you're ready to, if you want to do a
time for tat that gives us a little wiggle room,
we can have eleventh.

Speaker 1 (07:05):
I didn't think about that.

Speaker 4 (07:06):
Okay, I couldn't. I couldn't get over a couple all Americans.
One for both for Biggie Mont was Lynn Chad Noy
and Sonny Grandilias. Both had school record totals in in
their senior seasons. Sunny was the first Spartan to gain

(07:29):
one thousand yards and just the seventeenth back in college
football history to crack a thousand yards in one season.
It's pretty amazing. And Chad NOI was was you know?
He was their number two. He ranks number two on
Michigan State's all time rushing average list, six point five

(07:50):
five yards.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
Per carry behind George Gary.

Speaker 4 (07:54):
Right, Yes that's right, George Gary.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
Yes, yep, So those guys are tied for tenth on
your list, Is that right?

Speaker 4 (08:03):
Those are tenth? Number number nine? I had Cedric Irvin.
He's he was fifth on the rushing list, fourth and touchdowns.
So it's really hard to leave a combination like that
off your list, But I've only got him number nine
on my list. How high was he on yours?

Speaker 1 (08:26):
Just about the same place. I'll get to that in
a minute, whether absolutely, Okay, go ahead now.

Speaker 4 (08:32):
Jeremy Jeremy Langford was number eight for me. He you know,
he scored a bunch of touchdowns. I think it was
forty or something like that he had. He had twenty
two one year and eighteen another year and finished in
the top ten in all time rushing. Number seven was
one of my very favorite players was Eric the Flea Allen. Yeah, yeah,

(08:57):
you know, I'll always remember the three hundred and fifty
yards against Purdue, and I'll especially remember, uh, you know,
Fred Stabley telling me that he had to call down
to Duffy and and tell him, you know, here's the deal.
He's he's pretty close to the old time record, and
Duffy sent him in for one more play and he

(09:18):
made he made the record on one run. But so
Eric the Flee Allen I think is maybe the one
of the most exciting runners. Yes for me, yeah, we
mentioned the Ducats Tico is number six on my list.
He had had a heck of a total. He's number

(09:41):
three on the all time list with well over four
hundred yards average almost five and a half yards per attempt.
That's pretty to those are. That's pretty tough running there. Okay,
let me on bell is Is. I would have loved

(10:02):
to have moved him up, but on my list, he'd
finished number five. He was seventh all time in rushing,
seventh all time in touchdowns, had that big, big game
against Minnesota I remember in twenty twelve, and so he's
a terrific player. Now here's I'm cheating. I'm gonna cheat

(10:25):
on this next one. Okay, My all time running back
for the nineteen sixty five sixty six great teams of
Spartans is Clinton Jones and Baba Pisa. I don't know,
I don't know how you separate those guys together. You
know they're they're gaining about what four to five thousand

(10:49):
yards together, So I you know, a Pisa. If not
for Clinton Jones, Baba Pizza would have would have been clearly,
you know, a great running back as he was. He
was kind of he played kind of second fiddle on
that particular team. But I had to cheat and put

(11:12):
two great ones together. Okay, number three, he only played
one year. But what a year was Kenneth Walker for me? Okay?
You know, well over six yards a rush, had almost
seventeen yards and almost twenty touchdowns, big games against Michigan,

(11:36):
big game against Northwestern, one of the great single seasons,
and won a couple of major awards. So it was
hard to to leave.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
Him on Walker Award. You know, it wins the Maxwell Award.
You're tough judge, all right, what do you have too?

Speaker 4 (11:56):
Number two is is Javon Ringer number two in all
time rushing thirty four touchdowns, a couple of great seasons,
particularly in two thousand and eight, almost seventeen hundred yards
and twenty two touchdowns and averaged well over five and
number one. I'm going to be very disappointed if he's

(12:18):
not number one on both of our lists. Is my favorite?
The guy who wore thirteen double e's on his feet
is Lorenzo White. You know, I got to I was
the one of the football sids at that point for
the Spartans, and so I got to know. I got
to know Lorenzo pretty darn well. And what what? I

(12:42):
give him? First team on my All character list. You know,
he he is just a terrific individual. But the games, well,
the game I remember was not his biggest yardage game.
He had two ninety two against IU on a bunch.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
Of six carries.

Speaker 4 (13:00):
Aly, yeah, okay. But the game I remember was in
eighty five at Bloomington. Yes, when when after two carries
in the second half, George pulls him from the lineup.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
Carried the ball twenty five times, twenty five times for
two hundred and eighty six yards.

Speaker 4 (13:21):
Two eighty six. Had he stayed in the game, he's
well over four hundred.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
I think it would have been about four four fifty something, right,
It would have been amazing, you.

Speaker 4 (13:31):
Think, Yeah, yeah, fantastic.

Speaker 1 (13:34):
Okay, all right, well that's pretty good.

Speaker 4 (13:35):
Last there's my kind of ten eleven twelve. Wow, I
kind of cheated a little bit.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
On you, all right, all right, uh number ten. Since
we're in this sharing now, you know you can have
two running backs. So we're going to do that, and
I'm going to have Blake Ezor, who I think, for
pound for pound, was about as tough a running back
as you can get. It was funny after Lorenzo had

(14:02):
all that success against Indiana the next year, people in
Bloomingjarre saying, man, you're glad that Lorenzo White has gone
and here comes Blake and he's got two fifty. Yeah, yeah,
he was. He was amazing and so beat up after
the game he could barely walk back to the hotel.
And I have him in a tie and Cedric's absolute

(14:23):
gonna kill me. It was Cedric Irvin, who you know,
leads Michigan State in rushing every year as a freshman
sophomore in junior and then went on to the Detroit Lions.
But scores four touchdowns in his first game. How do
you do that? I mean, we know what tenneth Walker
did in his first game at Northwestern, but this guy
comes out as a big ten opener and there's never

(14:45):
been a more confident Michigan State player. But my number
one memory of Cedric Mike you'll appreciate this. Nineteen ninety
eight and Spartans are up and down, struggling, and they
go to Columbus. They're playing number one ranked Ohio State
and Michigan State scores at last five times it touches
the ball, has a series until Ronaldo Hill's interception and

(15:09):
they just take knees. But the five straight scoring drives
and after the game, Cedric Irvin is digging up the
end zone and he takes it with him. He says,
you know what I own this field? That was swerve
An Irvin. Yes, exactly, So they're tied for ten. Number

(15:31):
nine on my list is the best pass blocking back
I can recall, and Mark kind of lucked into him.
He got a reference, and you got to take this guy.
He couldn't get tickets to an Ohio State game from Columbus.
That's Le'Veon Bell and I think he's still jumping over
Boise State defenders. Number eight on my list, and again,

(15:58):
you know this guy's every one of them is too low.
I don't know how you fix that. But Eric to
Flee Allen. He was also a terrific kick returner. And
the thing that really kills me is he lived in
the dorm with me. He did, Yes, we were in
Wonders Hall. So yeah, the flee from South Carolina. Number

(16:20):
seven on my list is Skirman Sherman Lewis and he
finished third in the Heisman race. And talk about big plays,
I mean against Notre Dame against Michigan, eighty five yard
catches and ninety yard punt returns and the best in
big games and I think if President John F. Kennedy

(16:42):
hadn't been shot, he would have been the star on
Thanksgiving Day or the Saturday before Thanksgiving Day, excuse me,
and Michigan State would have gone to Rose Bowl in nineteen.

Speaker 4 (16:52):
He had to play. He had to play against a
guy named pretty.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
Good, pretty good Illinois team. That's right. Illinois won that
game thirteen to nothing, and a really good team was
good to be left home. There was no second spot
for a bowl game either in those days. Number five
on my list is Javon Ringer, and I have a
little story about it.

Speaker 4 (17:08):
Did you skip number six? You had Lewis seven?

Speaker 1 (17:11):
Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Yes, Six on my list
is okay, you're going to do the backfield thing, then
I'm going to follow along with you. That's Clinton Jones
and Bob Apisa. And Bob A. Pisa was a fullback
who ran like a half back.

Speaker 4 (17:26):
You know.

Speaker 1 (17:27):
He had that touchdown in ann Arbor at the end
of the Michigan game when they thought they were going
to take a knee and he blasted through the line
for about a forty yard touchdown and then threw the
ball at the fans, you know, And so he was.
He was incredible. If he hadn't torn up his knee, Mike,
I think he would have really changed the way the
fullback position was played in pro football. Never really had

(17:48):
a chance.

Speaker 4 (17:48):
To do that. Yeah, and he would have been the
one guy on our list bit you didn't want to
see running at you.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
No, he and he and maybe T. J. Duckett was
another one I wouldn't have wanted to tackle. But Clinton
Jones from Cleveland, two time All American and All America hurdler,
and he was amazing in that what he Hayes was
so mad at him for leaving the state of Ohio.

(18:21):
He couldn't believe. And you know, you can go where
you can go, Terribles and you know, and then he
came back and he kicked their butt. So he ranks
along with Bob at Pisa in that number six spot.

Speaker 4 (18:32):
I'm glad you. I'm glad you matched me.

Speaker 1 (18:34):
Yes, I matched that one. Number five is Javon Ringer.
And the thing I'll never forget about Javon was his
senior year against Michigan and he got hurt during the week.
A lot of people didn't know it, but I knew it,
and I opened my big mouth. I got in big trouble,
and I got somebody else in trouble who told me,

(18:56):
and h came on the air and I mentioned, you know,
I just say, hey, you know, there's a chance to
Von Ringer is not going to play in this game,
and the coaches didn't know if he'd played in the game,
and he did, and one hundred and eighty five yards later,
including that bounce out run down the sideline, Michigan is
still chasing him down the sideline. And that was a

(19:16):
big win because it was the first for Mark D'Antonio
and his eight wins over the Wolverines. Big win in
an arbor. Number four. I have TJ. Duckett and the
reason I do two reasons.

Speaker 4 (19:29):
Really.

Speaker 1 (19:31):
It was funny when he was a freshman and we're
with Saban Big ten media days and he said, what
are you going to do with t J. Duckett? He said,
I don't know, what would you do with him? And
I said, well, you know what George always said, the
better you are, the more times you should touch the ball.
Maybe you should touch the ball. I think Nick wanted
to make him a linebacker. He's always thinking about defense, right,

(19:52):
so he makes him a running back and scores four
times as a freshman against Penn State last game of
the year, and then in two thousand and one, his
junior year before he turns pro, they play Michigan and
of course he catches the pass from Jeff Smoker with

(20:13):
one second to go in the game. He could have
fair caught it. He was just waiting in the end
zone for it. But what people forget Mike is he
had two hundred and eleven rushing yards in that game,
and you know he was They always said, hey, the
team that runs the ball better than that game will win.
Well that was that was TJ. Duckett and number three,
I have Tiko Duckett whom I got them both. I

(20:38):
got them both. I got him three and four. And
talk about an iron man behind Lorenzo. He carried it
more than anybody, and for a little guy, but he
was a track guy. He was a sprinter from Kalamazoo.
And you know, it's funny when he went to the
NFL and is talking to the Packers talk about how

(21:00):
durable he is. You know, I carried the ball this
the times and they're shaking their head and they said,
that's too bad. I mean it's too bad, he said, Man,
you got a lot of miles on those tires. They
didn't want a guy who carried the ball as often
as Tico Duckett carried at Michigan State. But Tico and
TJ the only brother combination Mike to score a winning
touchdowns against the University of Michigan.

Speaker 4 (21:23):
Huh interesting, Yes, and and but together almost eight thousand
rushing yards. That's not bad. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
I could have blumped them together if we're doing all
of these tandem things. But I made them three and four.
Number two is K nine Kenneth Walker the Third. I
don't think we'll ever see a better performance. Even low
with the two hundred and ninety two yards in the
Rose Bowl elimination game. Didn't do what Kenneth Walker the
Third did against Michigan in twenty twenty one with the

(21:53):
five scores and the first time this guy touched the
ball for Michigan State goes seventy five yards for a
touchdown against Northwestern and half the country didn't see it
because there was a game that went long. John in
progresses he's just about to go into the end zone.
But he was an amazing guy, and not only did

(22:13):
lead the league, lead the nation in rushing, Mike, he
led the nation in yards after contact. He was not
playing behind the twenty thirteen through fifteen offensive lines with
Jack Conklin and Donovan Clark and Jack Allen. He was
making a lot of yards on his own.

Speaker 4 (22:33):
He did, he did. He bounced off a lot of people,
didn't he.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
He is number two and number one of course is
simply the greatest offensive player in Michigan state history. And
when you think about Low in fact, we just got together.
We could go Friday over at One North for dinner,
but I got I had a very special relationship with
Lorenzo's mother, Gloria Gold, and she said, you know you're
going to look out after my son. You know you

(22:58):
got to be. I said, you have to worry about him.
He's carrying the ball so much. He couldn't possibly.

Speaker 4 (23:03):
Did me the same line, Yeah, you want me to
look after Lorenzo.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
Up couldn't possibly get in trouble.

Speaker 4 (23:09):
You know.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
One one stretch a sophomore year Mike, when he set
the record and rushed for twenty sixty six yards. He
carried the ball one hundred and two times in eight days.

Speaker 4 (23:21):
Wow, that was very disappointing for me. You know, we
we pumped the heck out. We weren't so white that
that particular year, and we were I personally, I know
Nick Vista was as well. We were very disappointed that
he didn't finish higher in the Heisman than he did.

(23:42):
But the guy who won it was pretty good too.

Speaker 1 (23:45):
Yes, yes, in eighty five and eighty seven Bo Jackson
and Tom Brown. He was a fourth place finisher both years.
So how often does that happen that you finished in
the top five twice? But that's a great list you have.

Speaker 4 (24:00):
Well, we were, we were pretty pretty close. You. I
put a couple of old timers in there that you
didn't have. But I just I have to give my
I have to tip my hat to those great Biggie
Money teams of the past, and so that was that
was the only way I could do it. But that
was fun putting together the list.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
All I can say, Mike is we could take our
honorable mentions and win a Big ten title.

Speaker 4 (24:25):
That's for sure. That's for sure. How would you like
to rotate the guys that we left off the list? Yeah,
that's for sure.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
Hey, thanks so much for joining us. I appreciate it.
I understand that you're bouncing back well from the surgery, right,
you had a replacement?

Speaker 4 (24:39):
Yeah, yeah, I you know, I started I started walking
at about age one, and I'm going to start walking
again at about age seventy four here, So yeah, it's
a seventy three year span. But I'm I'm getting there
and it's it's not as bad as I thought it
was going to be. And I know I'm going to

(25:00):
to feel a lot better. So thanks for the well wishes.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
Well, I can I tell you a funny story about
that with Judd Heathcote, you know, and he had an
insult for everybody, But he had a friend over at
Walnut Hills who was one of the pioneers, okay and
the first guys when this wasn't really a popular thing
to do, And he had a replacement surgery and Judge
talked to him. I'm in the office and he says, oh,
what did you have replaced? And the guy said, uh oh,

(25:25):
there was my hip And jud said, I was hoping
it was your head.

Speaker 4 (25:32):
Uh yeah, my my old paddle ball partner had had
some quick lines. Yes, he was a specially he was
especially difficult as a partner by the way. Uh you know,
he always blamed me for not getting to the shot.
And the problem was he he had a he had
a three foot circle around him, and he did. He

(25:52):
did a heck of a job in that three foot circle.
But he was slightly he.

Speaker 1 (25:58):
Was slightly, just slightly more mobile than Sparty.

Speaker 4 (26:05):
I'd appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
And Mike, thanks so much for joining us. We'll do
this again next week. We got a long way to go.
We got receivers, we got defensive players. This is gonna
be fun.

Speaker 4 (26:14):
Okay, Thanks Jack, Game Day.

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