*Rick Gosselin, longtime Sports Columnist

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Jack Ebling here with my good friend Matt Sloan a
graph of okeymists. Big summer here, Matt.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
That's right, Jack.

Speaker 3 (00:05):
We got the summer savings going on right now at
Graft Nissan and Graft Chevy of Okamist. Great deals. We're
offering zero percent financing and select vehicles up to sixty months.
If you're a Casto member, we got extra rebates for that.
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We got great deals for you.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Zero percent.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
Can't get much lower than that. That's exactly right, Papacy,
Matt in the gang here on West Grand River, Okamiz.

Speaker 4 (00:30):
They're making friends. Welcome back.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
It is a drive with Jack the Spotlight, radio and
head work. Jack Ebling here with my producer of Boston
Rob Rob. Want to go right back to our guest line.
And it is the first night of the regular season
for Michigan State Hockey. A guy who loves Spartan hockey
college hockey in general, even though he is more closely

(00:55):
associated with the National Football League as a Hall of
Fame Square Vibe want to welcome in Rick Goslin. Rick,
you were just watching college hockey last weekend right.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Yes, sir, something weekend in Arizona and saw the Arizona
State Penn Stak theory, saw Gavin McKenna making his college debut.

Speaker 4 (01:17):
Pretty comebacks right for the Lyons. How good is Penn State?
And how good is Gavin McKenna.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
H McKenna's got he is terrific in space. No, I
didn't see a whole lot of him going to Traffick,
but you know he's five sixty pound kids. But I
got like you know, Gretsky didn't go to traffic either,
all right, right, ter terpid, terrific passer and trippic skater,
the whole thing. He's got the whole package. At that state,

(01:46):
it was the frozen fourteen. Uh. Serato had a big,
big weekend. He had two goals. Thanks for you assist
the first night. He's a good player.

Speaker 4 (01:56):
He is.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
He's a little low note. His father, Vinnie, was the
personal director for the San Francisco forty nine ers in
Washington Residue.

Speaker 4 (02:03):
Right.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
I knew, yeah, yeah, I knew. I know mesent quarterback
in Iowa State. That's my figure there. But I say,
Arizona State, it's good program, but it's not to the
level of the Big un schools. I think there'll be
more physicality into Big ten and that's will be a

(02:26):
better measure for UH, for MCINNA when you get to
this level, you know, I think it's a it's a
natural stepping stone. I think they'll see more and more
players coming down here from the Canadian junior leagues because
when you go to college hockey for that one year,
you're playing against men state junior hockey, you're playing againt
seventeen eighteen year olds. It'll be an easier transition for

(02:47):
these college kids and these junior players to go through
college hockey to the NHL because of the physicality and
actually stay in the game. And I think it will
benefit mccannon, it will benefit UH, Montrone, the kids in
Missigan State. Yeah, yeah, it'll make it'll make the game better.
The sad thing for me is that these kids are

(03:09):
in college suits. They're coming here for one year. They're
just using the Stevenstone and NHL. And I'm kind of
a purist. I went to Michigan State to get my
college education. Yeah, and all of college sports now in
IL transfer portal, kids going to three four different schools, right,
and you know how many transcripts are being exchanged these
schools and these kids transfer. So I'm kind of a purist.

(03:32):
I don't like to see it, but it will make
for a better brand of hockey.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
It's coming season, right You and Mike Pursuda have made
an annual trip back to East Lansing to watch Michigan
State hockey during the winter.

Speaker 4 (03:45):
And I know.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
Tickets are tougher to get, but just talk to someone
who didn't know there was a game. Came in from
out of town, has gotten two very good tickets for
tonight's game, so they are available. Rick, You just have
to be a little bit clever on how you do it,
and I think that you in pursuit are certainly capable
of that.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
Well, he and I are. I've had another weekend I
come up with my two brothers and we've already been
closed out. We're looking to go into Farr State for
a weekend series in February. It's tough. It's tough getting
tickets for New Hampshire. It's not like getting tickets to
Penn State or Michigan or Minnesota. And that's the problem.
You want to see. I want to see the more

(04:25):
competitive games. You know, it's the big thing games. But
you know, the Lower Bowl has already been sold out.
I don't even think they sold single game tickets. It's
getting very difficult to get tickets from mixty games unless
you're go early season to the winsor game last week
for the New Hampshire game season on compaence games.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
I would think that in your case, just dropping the
name Rick Goslin could get you a seat in the
press box. I don't know what that does for your brothers.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
It leaves them out, leads them out outside transit to radios,
those still exist. Let's talk I'm I'm, I'm may get
back one with Mike. I don't know, well, Mike and
I a couple of probably get back for football or
hockey basketball weekend, but far so we get my Brolers.
Those are out. Now.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
Let's talk a little bit about the National Football League.
And you covered Kansas City a long time before you
covered Dallas. And when you think about the chiefs now
hosting the Lions, it used to be that that was
a game you would almost automatically chalk up as an

(05:33):
l in Arrowhead. Lions are pretty confident they're going to
go in there, and they're gonna do the same thing
they did in Baltimore, and.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
For every reason. I mean, right now, Lion's the best
team in football. They've got to go off defensively. Other
teams are still struggling. Uh, Baltimore is out of the mix.
Kana City could be out of the mix. Uh, you
know the Judisal Powers. You know, Buffalo losing the Patriots
last year. There are no great teams. I think the
only thing close to the great team is Detroit. The Eagles,

(06:03):
you know last week lose at home.

Speaker 4 (06:05):
Right.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
You know the Super Bowl I'd love to see is
Detroit and Buffalo. Yeah, there's a good chance that happens.
But there's a lot of football to play in between them.
But the Lions right now are the best team in
football if they can stay healthy. I like their chances
whether you can get in the top seed and going
to the Super Bowl.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
Rick, what happened to the team that one month ago
lost in Green Bay?

Speaker 4 (06:32):
It looks so bad doing it.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
The game has changed when I covered back when I
covered the Change one year, they played six exhibition games
and then they played four and basically you used the
preseason to get the safe for the regular season. Right then,
Combardi always played to win. He wontre than seventy percent

(07:01):
of his career NFL games, and he had a higher
winning percentage in the preseason. His belief was winning breeds winning.
But now with the salary camp, teams are paranoid to
play their starting players. In twenty twenty one, the Rams
didn't play a starter in the preseason. They wanted to

(07:23):
win the Super Bowl. So these players are not ready
for the speed and physicality of September football. There's no
hitting in training camp anymore. They don't play in the preseason.
Their bodies are not ready. So that first game for
the Lions that a sense, it was a preseason game.

(07:44):
Their starters are on the field and adapting to the
speed and physicality of the game. I think that was
kind of a wake up call for him. They'd been
more like the Detroit team than I come to expect
in these last four games. But it's hard to get
engaged to tell her because no team is ready. They're

(08:06):
not ready for the type of the caliber play that comes.
There's a difference between playing in August and playing I
think that that's what bit the Lions in the rear
of that opening night.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
We're talking with Rick Gosslin, spartan Hall of Fame writer
for many decades and author. We'll talk more about that.

Speaker 4 (08:27):
In just a couple of minutes.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
But Rick, the Lions offensive line, I think it's not
quite as good this year, maybe significantly less without Frank
Ragnow and some of the other questions up front, Taylor Decker,
it seems to be hurt a lot.

Speaker 4 (08:46):
But if you can't force.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
Jared Ought to be uncomfortable, if you can't get him
out of his rhythm, how do you stop this Lion's offense?

Speaker 2 (08:57):
Touch question unless they stop themselves off. Is that guy
who's prone to the big interception games postive fumbles? But no,
they The deal is with Sarah cap You're not going
to have those offensive line with the Hogs in the
in the eighties, in the Dallas line in the nineties.
You can't pay all your best players. But the Lions

(09:19):
will suck enough high draft picks into the line. Yes,
they're they're They have the best line of football, you know,
and them were the Eagles. Uh, and Eagles haven't been
the same without Kelsey the Lions now, but they've got
enough pieces in place they can They have kept golf
comfortable and they you know, and the fact they've got

(09:41):
a run a game also helps to keep go off
comfortable because you can't just line up and play the
pass kind of just a lineup and attack the quarterback.
You got to play the run too. And if you
want to just attack golf, they'll run for two hundred
yards against you. This is a complete offense and they
still have the gimmicks. You know. The Montgomery touched on
path last week proves that there wasn't all Ben Johnson

(10:02):
in the last last few years. This is this is
a very very good football team. Now. I think the
window could be closing. They should have gone in the
Super Bowl two years ago, they could have gone last year.
And this is what's happened to the to the Chiefs,
I think their window was closing. You they still have
the great quarterback. But it's tough. It's tough to when

(10:25):
you when you've wanted a few times, you know, the
Cowboys as great as they were, you know, one three
in a span of four years and have back the
Super Bowl cents. It's tough once you when you start winning,
people start taking your players and you start you're you're
paying your your elite guys top money. You can't keep
the worker bees, the blue collar guys in the draft

(10:49):
right right right, And that's that's one of the issues.
So you know, Detroit's got a window here. I think
this year, maybe next year, they got to win it.
At some point they got to win it. They've been
a good up the last two years and didn't win it.
So I think this is I think people are gonna
be this is the season. If you're going to win it,
win it this year. And I think the Satan is
going on a booklough the saying that about Josh Allen.

(11:11):
You've been close this year, your year, you shouldn't be
the super Bowl team. I think, yeah, I'd love to
see a Detroit Bulbo super Bowl. The Staateswood could be
higher for both franchises.

Speaker 4 (11:23):
Oh yeah, yeah, that would be fantastic. Rick.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
When we talk about building franchises, super Bowl worthy franchises,
and no one knows more about this than you do,
I always say that you have to hit on a
player or two that's drafted lower than they should have been.
You think about it, Travis Kelcey or an Amen Ross,
Saint Brown, and a lot of times we find general

(11:50):
manager takes a chance, believes in somebody and moves up
to get them, the way the Chiefs did to get
Patrick Mahomes. That were teams that had plenty of chances
to get Patrick Mahomes. Same thing with the Lions. They
believed in Jamier Gibbs and they said we're going to

(12:10):
get our guy, and we're going to be laughing at
everybody else.

Speaker 4 (12:14):
And they were right.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
A lot of times gms are wrong about that, but
the ones that are right, you usually have a lot
of ws.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
But again, he was high of his first round pick, right, Yes, yeah,
but it's a guy agreed. But it's hard. I don't
think it's hard. But when you talk about guys who's
taking the top fifty of the drafts, those are blue
chip players. Gives as a blue chip player. I've always
seld the championships are won from round four through seven.

(12:47):
Anybody can draft in the first three rounds. Those are
all the blue chippers, all the All Americans. It's when
you know you get in the later rounds. Yeah, and
you eye players. I've always said Ron Wolfe was the
greatest second day draft history. I mean wrong, fourty seven
huge drafts. Slew a cow Bowlers, Mark Brunell and Mann,
Hasselback and tied de Aaron Brooks quarterbacks. He traded for

(13:11):
a great return, Donald Driver, the all time leading receiver
backer history for the seventh round draft pick Adam Timmerman
Pro Bowl Guard, sixth round draft pics, Travis Jervey a
Pro Bowl special team that was a six hundred. That's
where you get the thing. But I was thought for
a championship team back when the Sarah Cap came to
place in nineteen ninety four, I wrote that there were

(13:33):
five positions that are going to get paid money cornerback,
edge rusher, left tackle, running back, and quarterback. Now it's changed.
The running back position is now wide receiver. If you
have five Blue Chippers there, you are a Super Bowl

(13:53):
contending team.

Speaker 4 (13:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
And I think the Lions are close.

Speaker 4 (13:57):
Yeah, you can fill in around them.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
Yeah, you've got to have those guys. If they're going
to make the money, they got to be good enough
to win a championship. And and Golf, I think Golf
is becoming a franchise quarterback. I never thought he was.
I thought he was on a very good level. But
what he's done statistically was the last couple of years
with the Lions. He's he's in the franchise caliber now.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yeah, yeahl yeah, yeah, a lot of it. I think
we see is the fit too with some of these quarterbacks.
And the Lions had invested enough draft capital in the
offensive line that they thought they could keep Jared Goff
upright if he was running for his life all the time.
He's an average quarterback or maybe not even that.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah. What saved them was that that the trade all
the draft picks they got uh in exchange for Mantchew Stafford.
I mean clearly the Rams were dumping Golf and golf.
I thought, nextally Golf is maybe a two year guy. Yeah,
have quarterbacks for two years and then you know, get
a better guy in there. But one they hit on

(15:06):
him to they hit on all of those draftings. That's
what the Cowboys do with Thehrarsal Walper deal. That's how
they became a champion. They got that Ahearsal Walker deal.
And the Lions in front office there is they're as
good as goods right now as far as drafting, as
far as player pro purement. And that's that's that's why
the Matthew Stafford deal should put a Super Bowl ring

(15:26):
on the thing. There's a lot of line line players.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
It's interesting you mentioned that Cowboys Vikings trade because that
one did not work out for Minnesota, at least not
in terms of a championship, and the Stafford trade could
be one of the few win win trades because the
Rams did get their championship that they wanted, and now

(15:51):
it might be the Lion's turn.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
That's funny. I was many years ago when I was
doing the NFL they want to use that? What are
on my training camp tour? And I went to bout
generally fifteen to seventeen team this summer, and I asked
everybody what would they rather have? A season like the
Rams where they wanted all in nineteen ninety nine but
were the worst team in football for the entire decade

(16:16):
or a decade, like the Chiefs, who were competitive throughout
the nineteen ninety decade I think won the most games
a decade, but never got to Super Bowl, much less
win it. To a man, the players and coaches said
they'd rather have the Chiefs decade because you're always in
it and you may hit. But to a man, the
owners all wanted the trophy, they all wanted to get.

(16:38):
Let me win it one time, just that one time. Yeah,
But coaches and players who are in that every day,
in the daily grind, the monthly grind, the safonal grind,
they just want to have a chance. And if you
play ten years like the nineties Chiefs and you're in
the playoffs every year, your top seed in your win
division titles, you got a chance.

Speaker 4 (17:01):
What do you think fans would have? Rick? Would would
they rather have that one moment?

Speaker 5 (17:06):
We want?

Speaker 2 (17:07):
They want to I think they want to ring. Yeah,
they want to ring for the one time they can
say one memory, we're the champions. Yeah. You look at
the eighty four Tigers. They're still living off that. We
want it eighty four.

Speaker 4 (17:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah, it's just once in your life you can say
you were the best. And I think most fan base
you would say, just give me the one ring.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
Well, the Lions fans can do that if they were
round in nineteen fifty seven.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
Like you were.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
Well, that's right, exactly exactly. Hey, I want to give
you a chance to talk about a book and I
read an excerpt.

Speaker 4 (17:41):
I haven't seen him yet.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
I don't actually have a copy in front of me,
but the book you did on the Chiefs going back
to that. Maybe history has forgotten to some degree, but
what a fascinating group, and they did a lot for
what we have in pro foot well today.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
It was a great team that no one knew because
they played in AFL. They won the most games and
most championships of any team in AFL history. They put
together a defense in nineteen sixty nine that was good
as any in football. There are only two defense in
history with six Hall of Famers, the sixties Packers in

(18:24):
the sixties Chiefs. Wow, that's how good they were. I
mean they had six Hall of Famers that day. They
had a Hall of Fame quarterbacks. But I when I
covered the sheets back in seventy seventy to eighty nine,
the team was awful. But I got to know everybody.
I got to know Lamar Hunt and Len Dawson, Otis
Taylor and Buck began at Jennimer and I was always

(18:46):
intrigued as a kid growing up in Detroit with Super
Bowl one Packers playing jee So I always talked to
those guys about that. And then when I became the
NFL writer of the morning news and I traveled, I
talked to a lot of the Packers, and then Jim
Taylor and Jerry Kramer, Willie Wood, Willie Davis about that game,

(19:07):
and I wrote this book about the nineteen the AFL
air a Chiefs. Seventy five percent of it was that
first Super Bowl leading up to it. The strategy involved
the halftime adjustments and how the Chiefs were absolutely embarrassed
they had a chance to take the lead start of
the second half to an interception, got behind and got
thrown out thirty five ten. And the last twenty five

(19:30):
percent of the book was a three game revenge tour.
First time they played an NFL team access Super Bowl
sixty seven, they played the bear Was in a preseason
they won sixty six to twenty four Wow. And they
played the Vikings in the fourth Super Bowl to beat
the Vikings that year. And finally in nineteen seventy they
got a preseason game with the Cowboys, who they went

(19:52):
head to head with in the early sixties for Dallas,
Dallas Texan versus Dallas Cowboys. Texas won the title and
they had to leave town because Dallas would not support
either team. The Texans always wanted to play the Cowboys,
never got the chance. Finally, finally in ninety seventy they
scheduled an exhibition game Chiefs versus Cowboys at the Cotton

(20:16):
Bowl in front of eighty thousand. Neither team could draw
twenty thousand when they played there. Now they're playing before
eighty thousand people. There were still six starters from the
Texans on the Chiefs. I think four starters from the Cowboys,
the sixty two Cowboys on the seventy Cowboys. It was
the only time in history the Cowboys had ever been

(20:38):
shut out in the Cotton Bowl preseason, regular season, the
postseason three game revenge.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
Sure, I loved what I read, Rick, and tell our
listeners again the best way to get a copy fill
us in on that, and I'm sure a lot of
our fans are football historians are going to want to
get their hands on it.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
Sure, it's promised by University of Nebraska Press and they
have a website, and that's probably the best way to go.
You get the book right away. You can get it
on Amazon, but it won't be available until November if
you order see that. But the University of Rasca Press
is probably the best way to Google that up. You
can get an order form there. It was fun book

(21:21):
to write. Most of the interviews were from thirty and
forty years ago. Right, most of the peeks that I
quoted has passed away. I got a whole chapter in
a Birth the Merger, and the only guy I talked
to is Elle Davis and Alice. Of course it is
past away, but funmok to write. I think if you
find a very fun book to read too, and.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
Give us the title one more time. It's the team
that history forgot, right.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
The team that history forgot the nineteen sixties Kansas City Chiefs.

Speaker 4 (21:49):
Fantastic, Rick, Thanks for your time.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
Sure, we'll talk to you again during the NFL season,
and I look forward to seeing you when you get
here to mon Arena.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
I hope, so hope sometime in January, game day in East.

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