* Stephen Brooks, 247Sports MSU beat writer

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Jack Kebling here with my good friend Matt Sloan a
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Speaker 2 (00:05):
That's right, Jack.

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Speaker 2 (00:24):
Zero percent.

Speaker 4 (00:24):
Can't get much lower than that.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
That's exactly right, Papacy, Matt in.

Speaker 4 (00:28):
The gang here on West Grand River, Okamiz. They're making friends.

Speaker 5 (00:32):
Afternoon mid Michigan and beyond. Jack Evelin here with my
producer Boston Rob. It is a drive with Jack the
Spotlight Radio Network on a Wednesday afternoon, fifty nine degrees
and sunny in mid Michigan. Big cloud over at Comerica
Park right now. We'll get to that a little bit later.

(00:53):
And this might be the last time we have probably
seen our last seventy five degree day, Rob, But this
is a gorgeous fall afternoon midweek. Could be the end
of the Detroit Tiger season. If they don't put away
the whiffletball bats that we have seen of late, trailing
the Seattle Mariners one zip after three innings. We'll talk

(01:17):
a lot more baseball later in the show, and I'll
tell you about my ordeal yesterday with a three hour
rain delay. But we want to start as we do
almost every Wednesday, with Stephen Brooks does a great job
covering Michigan State for twenty four to seven Sports Spartan
Tailgate premium site. Stephen, how was your trip to Nebraska?

Speaker 2 (01:41):
It was fine. It was quick in and out, didn't
do much, just handled the game. Came home early the
next day and.

Speaker 6 (01:48):
That was that.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
So No, it was good though. It's a great stadium,
definitely one folks should go to. If I haven't made
that trip yet, you know, sort of a there's more
to Lincoln and then you might picture like Nebraska Fields,
corn all that like. It's a pretty cool little urban
environment around there. But the stadium itself is one of
the best few in the Big ten for sure, top five,

(02:09):
i'd say, so always cool to be around that environment.

Speaker 5 (02:13):
Did you ever see that many red balloons?

Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah, this is my second time there. I was out
in twenty thirteen as a student during that season. But
it doesn't get all going to a place like that.
It's it's definitely one of the cooler venues. And like
I said, folks haven't made that trip yet. I know
you've had fifteen years or so to do that, but
if you haven't, circle the next one and try to
make your way out there, because it's one of those

(02:37):
places that's really worth the trip.

Speaker 5 (02:40):
If you were there in twenty thirteen, steven, you saw
Michigan State's only win in Lincoln. Spartans do have some victories,
had won the previous two matchups with Nebraska, but it.

Speaker 4 (02:53):
Was a strange day and really three games.

Speaker 5 (02:56):
In one, Michigan State dominating the third quarter and rallying
from a two touchdown deficit to take a seven point lead.
You weren't blocked like any of the Michigan State punts,
and you didn't drop your computer in a wind gust.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
Right, No, it's all good.

Speaker 5 (03:16):
What do you think happened there to swing the game?
Michigan State got off to such a bad start and
then came back. Alessio Milavoyevic actually came in and threw
a touchdown pass in the second quarter. Made it fourteen
to seven, and Michigan State probably fortunate only to be
down by a touchdown, and then took over the third quarter.

(03:38):
The defense played a way that we hadn't seen and
didn't expect with five sacks, only had six in the
previous four games, and really seemed to frustrate Dylan Rayola.
But then once Nebraska got it going again, they didn't
stop and rolled.

Speaker 4 (04:01):
To a lead.

Speaker 5 (04:02):
Michigan State had a somewhat meaningless touchdown at the end
of the game.

Speaker 4 (04:06):
What changed and took it away from the Spartans?

Speaker 2 (04:11):
Uh? They you know some of the things that got
away from them early, you know, I mean like you
just laid out as a very disjointed effort throughout the
sixty minutes, disjointed in terms of placing it in a
row with the rest of the games this season too.
I mean, it was definitely the defense's best day of
the year by a good margin, I would say, and
the offense is worst day. Special teams worst day by

(04:32):
a mile. Worst day we've seen on that unit probably
a couple of years, maybe since that Rutgers game a
couple of years ago, twenty twenty three. But so yeah,
you know, the thing is just the whole picture is
not coming together for this team, you know, I mean,
so what changed. They got some stops there early on,
they were able to get a little bit of pressure
finally as a defense, and they were around them a

(04:53):
little bit. But they also covered really well for having
the number two ranked passing offense. You know, statistically, I
think I'd talked to you, I didn't think they were
that good. Whereas you know, I think usc Is is
pretty much as good as their numbers say are close
to it. I didn't think Nebraska was. And so they
just were really good in coverage. They used a lot
of guys. Dontavia's Nash plays for the first time, the

(05:14):
East Carolina transfer Aiden West is in there, Malcolm Bell's
in there. They're down two starters, so they're mixing the
matgic guys. But they played really good coverage. And that's
one of the things Joe Rossie talked about today is
that's what allowed those sacks to happen. You know, for
the most part, I don't think you saw a lot
of just like clean winds off the edge or anything
where it's just like boom, You're in trouble right off
the snap. But they were covering really well in the

(05:37):
back end. That allowed those guys to give them a
little extra time to get home and to defeat those
blocks and whatnot in a way that we haven't seen
this year. So that's what was quick in there. I mean,
they just found a rhythm. They are getting pressure, they're
getting stops getting off the field on there down and
then all those things stopped happening. They didn't get as
much pressure, They get the spunished, they get to kick
off snapoo late and give them a possession, you know,

(06:00):
a couple of yards away from the man zone, and
I think they only get a field goal out of that.
But things just spiral. You get the one play touchdown
drive they're out of position to get the guy down
on the screen pass that that shouldn't have gone for
nearly as many yards as it did. And then you
get the one coverage bus where I believe it's Josh
Eaton Mixed loses track of his guy on third down,
and they get a game of like twenty seven or

(06:20):
something late in the game and moving. You know, they
were they were kind of cooked at that point. You know,
they weren't cooked, but Nebraska was struggling, un mess, you
were taking the lead, you get them into third down
and then they give up the huge pass and they
go score there. So just not enough, you know, basically
in every aspect, even the good things. The defense did
not enough stops at the end, not enough of anything
from the offense basically all day other than you know,

(06:42):
one or two good drives, and nowhere near enough on
special teams. So just it didn't all come together in
the way things kind of have to if you're going
to win a game on the road like that.

Speaker 5 (06:53):
As you mentioned, Steven, I would have given Michigan State's
special teams and a minus.

Speaker 4 (07:00):
After the first four games.

Speaker 5 (07:03):
Really thought it had excelled and.

Speaker 4 (07:07):
Not just a punting game with Ryan Eckley.

Speaker 5 (07:09):
I thought Martin Connington had come in and been a
pleasant surprise. The return game had been solid other than
one fumble in the opener, and to have the kind
of misplays, not just missed opportunities, but handing teams touchdowns.
The first punt play, the overload was not picked up,

(07:31):
and the responsibility there goes so many places. First of all,
Eckley has to be able to see that and if
he needs to call time out he can do that
if not take a penalty, get that set. I mean
it was shades of twenty fifteen in ann Arbor and
to allow that to happen, and even then they could

(07:54):
have blocked it, but they had two players run by
their guys. Kim Johnson just almost shook hands with the
guy who went on and blocked the kick and then
the kickoff and I know it was gusty. Maybe you
can tell our listeners what that was like because it
was it was so warm there too, I guess I

(08:18):
would say hot, hot and windy, and to have two
guys try to make a play but no communication. Maybe
the noise there was the issue. But you can't hand
a team like Nebraska fourteen points.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
No, absolutely not. And like you said, I mean that's
an area that's probably been one of their strongest area
as a team has been the kicking game and all
sorts of special teams. But yeah, those things. I mean,
they get a delay on the snap before the punt
is blocked, so they could have got that one off,
you know, and theoretically that it had a clean operation there,
but they have the punt, the delay which forces it
again and then it gets blocked. I mean, they gave

(08:58):
up a punt return to Nebraska that guy that came
off the board with a penalty. But the coverage was
terrible all day. They had huge lanes once they fielded
the ball, and then you know obviously mentioned the kickoff
thing too. Yeah, the wind was was really gusty. You
could see the pants on the coaches like with and
around on there the flags on the upright, So it
was pretty bad for sure. I think the noise definitely

(09:19):
had something to do with it. I think just the moment,
you know, you're not expecting the ball to sit up
there and die and things that. You know, the momentum
was shifting and I don't know what they didn't hear
each other or what, but you can't have it. No, Yeah,
you just cannot have it. And that's like I said,
this is supposed to be an advantage from Michigan State
and they don't have a lot of It was quite honestly,
when you look at the rest of the Big ten,
so especial teams had to be an advantage and it was.

(09:40):
It wasn't even a neutral. It was a major, major negative.
So yeah, it's you know, you give up a block
punt touchdown. I don't know the stats, but you're pretty
much not going to win the game. I'm sure that
data represents that strongly. So the fact that they did
come back and take a lead, you know, at a
certain point there that was that was good, But you know,
you did come out of this game, like one thing

(10:02):
I wrote after it is just like it's it's some
of you know, it's so much like the rest of
these other sixteen games that we've seen under John Minchmid,
who's just there's always a missing link somewhere and like
the performances aren't string together. I mean, nobody really saw
this offense collapsing like this the way that they played
the last few games, and even at USC they lose
the game. But I feel like you come out of

(10:23):
that feeling like that you have some good things going
on offense, and you felt terrible about the defense, but
then they flipped totally and the defense as his best
day at the offense is close to a no show.

Speaker 7 (10:33):
You know.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
I really thought they'd be able to run the ball
on a Nebraska team that hadn't defended the run well
at all, and that didn't show up, you know, and
then they're getting protection issues. Chiles gets hit early. I
think he lost some confidence and his teammates and whatnot,
and this really sloppy day there. So it's just a weird.
It's a weird result to take, I think for people

(10:53):
because there was some definite positive stuff there, but they're
they're beyond the silver linings and the moral victories and
everything at this point and it just nothing strings together.
You know. There's just so many, so many Saturdays through
these seventeen games now have just been grab bags. And
it doesn't it doesn't correlate to the game before or after.
It's just rolled the dice and here's what it is today,

(11:13):
all right, put them back in the box and roll
them again. That's what you're going to get the next week.
You know. There's very very little connectivity and growth, you know,
the linear sort of connective tissue growing between performances, and
that's I think one of the more frustrating parts of
the result. Even if you can find little pieces that
you like, the big picture is like, where's this all going?

Speaker 4 (11:34):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (11:34):
Yeah, I thought the defense, with a couple of breakdowns
a couple.

Speaker 4 (11:41):
Exceeded expectations.

Speaker 5 (11:42):
But the offense, Stephen you mentioned, just kind of being
out of sorts.

Speaker 4 (11:47):
Started on the second play of the.

Speaker 5 (11:49):
Game and Elijah Tautaliver drops a pass. What a touchdown pass,
but it would have been a gain, it would have
been a positive play. Put him a little behind the chains.
And then later Jack Velling got alligator arms on a ball.

(12:09):
Once Aiden got hit, I don't think he was the same.
And it was to the point where we were asking
the question, this isn't a quarterback controversy.

Speaker 4 (12:20):
Okay, it isn't a matter of who the number one
guy is.

Speaker 5 (12:23):
That is clearly established and name, image and likeness payments
reflect that. But is there a point where a guy
maybe isn't quite right, maybe he's nursing an injury that
you say, okay, this isn't your day and you put

(12:44):
the backup in. Maybe if Michigan State hadn't taken it lead,
they would have gone that route. But not to say
that Alessio would have had a different outcome if he'd
been to quarterback. But it was pretty clear that Aiden
was overthrowing on anything with the wind at his back

(13:06):
and coming up short of some open receivers. When he
was throwing into the wind, he did some great things
with his legs again, but it just looked like.

Speaker 4 (13:20):
He regressed almost a year after that hit.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
Yeah, yeah, I mean so watching it live and back, like,
I didn't think he was like, oh, this guy's injured,
to get him out of here, I understand, you know, he
did go get checked out and everything. That didn't strike
me the way that those type of things usually strike you,
like WHOA, something's off here. To me, I just thought
he had a bad day for the first time this season.
And yeah, and it did look like last year in

(13:46):
terms of some of the midsfires that you mentioned, or
just the way he was holding onto the ball in
the pocket and trying to do a little too much
back there, doing a little too much dancing and getting
themselves into trouble that way. I just thought he played
bad and I thought he, like I said, I thought
he confidence in his supporting cast there, and I can't
totally blame him. I mean, the way he was getting
pressure from the edges, both tackles, had some rough moments,

(14:09):
right side had a rough day that all happened early,
you know, So I think he just kind of got
rattled and and that's what we saw a lot of
last year, right I think that's why we saw some
of those struggles because I don't think he had complete
faith in what type of protection he was going to
get in The running backs again on Saturday let him
down a couple of times there. You can't really trust
those guys, so I think that just got them. He

(14:31):
talked about trying to do too much when he re
interviewed him yesterday, and that was something that I think
showed up last year. So yeah, a lot of a
lot of last year tendencies that he'd moved on from,
which were bummers. I mean that pick, the first pick,
like was so far off target, high and to the right,
like it was going to go it was going to
be picked off either way, and it was both. It
was comically bad to the right or high whichever way,

(14:54):
and then it was both of those things. So I
mean that was just that was just terrible. You know,
the first pick of the year, it gets tipped at
the line and you're like, okay, whatever. Otherwise he hasn't
given it up this year. That one was squarely on him.
That was just a bad throw. So yeah, it was
a bad day for him. It's a bad day to
have a bad day. He does still rescue them with
his legs. As you mentioned that one drive, he has
like forty of their forty eight yards or something all

(15:15):
on the ground by him. And I think that's why
you keep a guy like that in the game, because
of that X factor and because he is your guy
and whatnot. He gave them a chance and a spark
there to sort of keep it going. But yeah, bad
day overall, and we can't not mention it was the
second two for fourteen. I'm third down, Like you mentioned
the Tay Tolliver drop, which was a weird decision to
even have him in there, I think that early and

(15:36):
to have that as part of start of your script.
But whatever, he's known for his hands, he's got to
catch that. But two for fourteen on third down, you're
not going to beat almost anybody with a pulse. And
that goes back to the run game, which did not
show up at all really the traditional run game other
than Child's making stuff happen. And I really thought if
there was one thing I thought I'd be able to
predict about this game, I thought him as you would

(15:57):
rush it at a pretty healthy clip. And now in
Nebraska has great dbs, it's hard to throw on them.
But I thought they'd run it well enough to get
the play action game going and have a chance there,
and they did not run it well at all, put
them behind the sticks, and then they weren't executing them.
They're done.

Speaker 4 (16:13):
Yeah, and the final margin eleven points.

Speaker 5 (16:17):
Maybe that's reflective certainly not what you would have expected
when Michigan State I took that twenty one to fourteen
lead and led late in the third quarter. But what
did you think of the coaching? You mentioned a strange
decision here and there. I thought it was one of

(16:38):
the weirder coach games I've seen by this staff.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yeah, I mean a couple. I think there's always a
I don't really come out of any game not thinking like,
there's a couple of things. I'm like, oh, that's a
little weird, Like tas Oliver early in there to catch
that pass. I was like, that's kind of weird. But whatever,
I didn't love. There's a pitch that they ran to
Tullis that went nowhere, like, well, you're going with their
slower back out in space run game hasn't been click
and you know, that was a weird one. But there's

(17:06):
going to be a handful. I think that I don't
always agree with per game. I'm a whole I didn't
think it was a weirdly called game. I thought it
was interesting that I thought, I don't have any data
on this, but anecdotally, it looked like they were spreading
the field a lot more Formationally, you didn't see as
much two tight ends, full back condensed looks. They were
spreading the field with three and four receivers at times

(17:29):
more often, I think. And I don't know exactly if
that was an opponent specific thing, or if that's something
that they came out of the bye week saying, we
can't keep bunching up the box here. We got to
spread things out, give ourselves some lanes, whether that's to
throw a run the ball. Maybe maybe that's just a
one week thing, but that was something I noticed. I mean,
when you talk about coaching, the weirdest thing about it
all was I asked John Van somebody after the game,

(17:51):
you know, you've rotated offensive lineman a lot this year,
and and you said as much that you liked what
Russ and Young did out at USC, you know, sort
of my question was just why didn't you rotate as
much at tackle today? And what was going on with
those decisions, and he said after the game he didn't
see it as a glaring issue and you know, my
jaw pretty much hit the floor and so you know,

(18:13):
you move on you which whatever is that? Those are
his comments. He clarified on Monday that it was not
as it was worse than he thought at field level,
but that was you know, when you talk about coaching
and decisions of this, and that that was the weird
one for me, is they were getting beat bad, you know,
at the tackle spots. And you have Connor Moore, who's
been a really good right tackle for him and for

(18:34):
whatever reason hasn't been as good on the left side,
even though that's the position where he became a star
of Montana play. But whatever reason, at this level he
hasn't been as good there, and so you know, it's
a tough decision. Do you keep one spot good, do
you move him to left? You play Russ and young
as on the road, red shirt freshman. So regardless though
that when you talk about coaching, that was a weird thing.
Was him initially saying he didn't see much issue with that.

(18:57):
I'm surprised that nobody was on the mic letting him know,
like Hey, we coach, you might want to take a
look at this tackle situation because it's not good. And
it really wasn't good all day. So he clearified it
later he saw the film. But you can't see everything
at field level. I get it, but that was the
weirdest thing in that aspect of that game to me.

Speaker 5 (19:15):
Yeah, I think you're right on it with the rust
and young question, because Jim Mahalchik has a reputation nationally
by people who know a lot more about offensive line
play than we do as one of the best teachers
of that position. Hasn't necessarily shown up yet, but that

(19:36):
is the way he is regarded, and we have seen
some things that have worked. But if he thought that
Ashton Leppo was a plus player in that game, then
he's watching a different sport than I am, because I
couldn't find anything he was doing right for most of
the game. And don't mean to mean him, but I'm

(19:58):
just saying that from start to finish there were serious
issues there. You mentioned the two for fourteen on third downs, Equally,
Quizzical was four for five on fourth down, so they
had twice as many conversions on fourth down as third

(20:19):
down in one third the attempts.

Speaker 4 (20:23):
That was strange, I thought.

Speaker 5 (20:25):
And the inability to get the ball not just to
Nick Marsh but to any of the wide outs downfield
was pretty amazing. You look at the receptions and Nick
did have four catches for forty.

Speaker 4 (20:40):
One yards.

Speaker 5 (20:44):
Long of thirteen, but you know where was Omari Kelly
He had one catch for nine yards, Kashan McCrae one
for fourteen, Kevin Boyd had a catch for fourteen yards.
So the rest of the completions and there were only
fifteen of them in the game, we'd the frasier veiling

(21:06):
and then the one I went twenty four yards to
tell us. So when you look at that, I guess
it's not surprising that Nick marsh frustration boiled over on
the sideline. And I don't know what you saw live,
but TV made a big deal about this, and as
they showed it, you could see that this wasn't a

(21:28):
one day thing for Nick. I think he's been thinking,
you know, I've been opening awful lot here and you
know I don't enjoy running these routes, just like I'm
the only one out here, So maybe they have that
all patched up. Sometimes this can turn into a good thing.
Maybe it makes people more aware, but it wasn't a

(21:51):
good look.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yeah, I didn't notice it live. I had the TV
broadcast going on my phone on the side, and that's
where I saw. I don't make a lot of it.
I think that stuff happens in sports if you played
sports and around sports, like you know, I get his
dramas for TV. It's it's conflict, it's engaging, But I
don't think it's a sign of anything major. I asked
saying about it, but not not as much of like

(22:15):
what's going on there, you know, But just like I
was more curious about the reasoning. Who's who, what was
each guy's case, and what were they trying to hash
out exactly. I don't I didn't want to put a
spotlight on like, oh you know fu, you know, it's
not like it had but just I was just curious
sort of what each guy's point was, what they were
trying to communicate to each other. But anyway, you know,

(22:37):
he he doesn't brush it off. Smith brushed off. I
don't think it's any kind of big deal, but they do,
you know. I think I have to make more of
an emphasis of getting marsh the ball, getting these receivers
at the ball. I mean, that is your strength. We've
seen the run game. Yeah, sputter at times, it's clicked
at times, but you can't count on it given you know,
on a given day or even a given game. I mean,
like USC, it shows up in the third quarter and

(22:58):
then that's all. It's the only time that shows So
when it's hot, you got to ride it. But I
think they have to be a little better to adjust
to just say, all right, you know, maybe not the rush,
you know, the inside zone for two yards on first
down all the time. Maybe we can throw a hitch
to marsh and see if he can make break attack
on Throw a little bubble screen to McCrae. Now, I
think more of that type of stuff to shorten underneaed

(23:20):
the intermediate passing game. I think folks want to see
more of that because it does feel like they're not
utilizing their greatest strength enough. I know they want to
establish the run. I know that's so central to their
philosophy and their scheme and everything that they want to do.
But I do think that they could do a better
job of leaning into the passing game strategically. Nebraska does
have good DBS Like I said, I was really impressed

(23:41):
with their corners. I didn't think they got a ton
of separation either. And Brian Lindrin spoke to us yesterday.
He mentioned that there was a lot of stuff that
he kind of was kicking himself about and didn't get
to on his call sheet coming out of the bye
week that they liked just because of how often they
were in third and long and some of those drives
were so short. So there was more that they had
that they wanted to do and just didn't get to

(24:02):
for this or that reason. But yeah, I don't you know,
there's not a whole ton of appetite to keep spinning
the reels on the run game if it's not working
when you have these receivers that quite honestly, a lot
of Big ten teams would probably trade theirs for, you know,
and and would would do things to get So I
think that's what folks want to see a little more
moving forward.

Speaker 5 (24:23):
I understand that you want to have a running game,
you can't go without it, But I thought when they
tried to run there were so many first and ten runs,
maybe you did something else and didn't see reverses. I
didn't see draw plays. I didn't see screen passes. And

(24:43):
when you have a defense that has twelve tackles for
losses in Michigan said had plenty, but Nebraska had twelve
stops for negative yardage. When you have that, you have
to have something on your call sheet is going to
at least make them stop from charging so hard into

(25:05):
the backfield, and they had nothing like that.

Speaker 2 (25:09):
Yeah, so that's why I go back to, like when
we see them spreading the field more formationally with trips
out there, shotgun, just spreading the end to end like
everybody else does, maybe that's a direction they're going to
start going a little more and getting being a little
more throw to set up the run as opposed a
device versa. I know they're not going to totally ditch
their identity and everything, so we're gonna have a tight

(25:30):
end on the field at all times. I'm not asking
them to be the air raid. I just think that
you've got some real weapons out there, and I don't
think they're using them enough. And the deep shots are great,
they're awesome when they work, they're pretty, they're make for
great highlights. But I think there's a lot more damage
these guys can do near the line of scrimmage. If
you just feed them the ball quick and let them work,
that can supplement your run game when it's not always clicking.

Speaker 4 (25:53):
San Francisco forty nine ers under Bill.

Speaker 5 (25:56):
Walsh Institute at a system. Again, we're talking about the
West Coast offense and popularizing what Sid Gilman and others
had really devised. But they came up what's called the
long handoff, and it was a short pass and when
you can get the ball in the hands of your playmakers,

(26:18):
and Aiden is certainly a playmaker, but he was holding
the ball way too long. And maybe, as you say, Steven,
the Nebraska secondary was so much better than any Michigan
state had seen. I thought those defensive backs were outstanding,
and you know, there wasn't a lot of covers. There

(26:39):
were a couple of bus where guys were running open
and Aiden didn't find them. But for the most part,
you know, there wasn't a lot of room to throw
the ball, and I think Chiles maybe lost confidence a
little bit that he could get the ball in those windows.
First time I've seen that, and instead of trying to
force anything in there, you know, he waited and he waited,

(27:02):
and you wait two extra counts with an offensive line
that can't protect you at a couple of positions and
you're probably going to be sacked or running for your life.

Speaker 4 (27:11):
So it was just a bad day.

Speaker 5 (27:14):
The question, Steven, the most important question right now is
what's the residue of this? Does it carry over? Do
they wipe the slate clean? Do they learn from this?
They're not going to be playing the Nebraska defense when
UCLA rolls in. They are, however, going to be facing

(27:35):
Indiana's defense, which is top ten in the country in
two weeks week and a half now, So they thought
Nebraska's defense goes good? Way do they see this one?
But what do you think is going to happen Saturday
against UCLA defense that looked horrible in the first four

(27:55):
games and even against Penn State with the UCLA offense
almost scoring it? Will Pence take got a lot of points.

Speaker 4 (28:05):
To that game.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, I think this is gonna be a good weekend
for MSU. I think that was the best thing to
happen for them, you know, because I thought Ucla probably
had one good day in them somewhere along the lines. Yeah,
And I think they just blew it, and you know
it spent that to oken last week. Now you're gonna
fly all the way over here for a noon start,
probably still a little hungover from that success and all
the buzz and and everything. At the end of the day,

(28:30):
they're still not a very good team. You know, I
thought that we see few things happen every year interim coach.
You know, everybody rallies together for one day and everything
comes together and it just works. I don't necessarily think
they've found anything, you know. I think they're just kind
of emptied the tank there, and I think so Misi
can say, I think this is a great spot to
get them, because you didn't want that day happening to

(28:52):
you obviously, whether they just fed up, they're backed into
a corner and they say enough so not that happens.
So I think they're in a great spotformation can say
to get them. I do think offensively we'll see some emphasis.
I'm getting these playmakers of the ball and getting that
passing game in rhythm, because it's going to have to be,
like you said, with Indiana Looming and these other teams
that for them to have a chance. I mean, those

(29:13):
are that is their strength. They can be a serviceable
running team, but They're not going to become some dominant
rushing outfit over the course of the season, I don't believe,
so getting that passing game in order and building some confidence.
I mean, they're a hungry team too. They're an angry
team too coming off these last two losses. So I
think things actually shape up pretty well for them, as

(29:34):
I'm sure you as UCLA is still reading some plus
press clippings and whatnot, still feeling good about that, and
I think that makes them a real prime gettable opponent
from me see this weekend. So I'm not worried about
that for them in that respect at all. And I
think it's clearly not a talent thing where they're going
to be overmatch or anything. So I would expect them
to be a pretty you might might be one of

(29:54):
the closer things we've seen to a complete game from
this program where they have a chance to be. I
guess we'll.

Speaker 5 (29:59):
Say Michigan State an eight and a half point favorite
in this game. A lot of people after the UCLA
win saying, oh, maybe Michigan State has won its last game.
Vegas doesn't quite see it that way, But when you

(30:20):
look at where Michigan State is moving forward, this marks
the midpoint of the season. Michigan State is going to
be four and two or three and three. If the
Spartans are three and three, I'm hearing that there's going
to be considerable outcry, considerable for major changes in this program.

(30:47):
If Michigan State is four and two, it lives to
play another day and would have to win two games
in a very difficult second half. Although now Minnesota looks
like it's not the team that a lot of people
thought in September. If this team should stumble Steven, what

(31:08):
happens moving forward?

Speaker 2 (31:11):
Oh, if they lose this game this weekend, I think
that's probably what they call it, an aviation, like an
irrecoverable position for this staff, I think, I mean, it
would be the beginning of the end. I think I
don't think you'd be able to come back from that,
quite honestly. I guess maybe run the table. You beat Michigan,
Indiana Purdue, sorry Indiana, Michigan Penn State, and run the

(31:34):
table to close out the season, I guess. But how
would that ever?

Speaker 6 (31:37):
Have you know?

Speaker 2 (31:38):
So, Yeah, if they lose this game, I think that
would be the end in terms of most people jumping
off the ship. We've talked about how many people are
sitting on the fence already and still have yet to
really fully buy in. Yeah to Smith and this staff.
Then there's a portion that's already out. So yeah, this
It sounds a little crazy to say must win eighteen
games into a coaching but and even with what us

(32:02):
did last week, it's I said, I think it's gonna
be more of a one game blit. This would be
it's a must win for this whole thing to keep going.
Otherwise I think it would be the beginning of the end,
quite honestly. But if they win, you know, as much
as people have been through the emotional ringer with this
team already, they'd be exactly where I and I think
a lot of people thought they'd be at four and

(32:23):
two with two roads losses, and then you go into
the second half and see what you can make of it.
I mean, yeah, I think at Minnesota is very winnable.
I got to see Maryland actually, you know, compete through
October to believe that they're going to be a threat.
And I'm really not that impressed with Iowa either. So
I think those are three games that are absolutely still
in play for them moving forward. But four and two
would be exactly where most reasonable people thought they'd be.

(32:46):
Maybe one game off if you thought they'd split those
road games, but it wouldn't be far off track at all,
if if at all. But yeah, lose it and I
think you're in a tail spin you can't come back
from quite honestly, as a staff, and just the ability
to get people and you know, to leave to buy
in on the outside, I think they would just sort
of start to came from there.

Speaker 5 (33:07):
Yeah, Michigan State would be four and two and having
covered the spread in the two losses, if that matters
to you. But I think a lot of people, as
you say, would have picked every outcome. If it's in
Michigan State went over UCLA, they would have been six

(33:28):
for six in their actual money line predictions.

Speaker 4 (33:33):
And right maybe a few would.

Speaker 5 (33:34):
Have said, Okay, they'll steal one of these two back
to back road games, and some would have said, okay, well,
they might lose again to Boston College. It turns out
it's not a very good Boston College team, and Michigan
State needed overtime et cetera and a few other things
going its way to win forty to forty in that game,

(33:55):
so that win maybe has lost a little of whatever
luster it had. How do you think Jonathan Smith is
holding up here? He has his Coaches show tonight, and
it's getting the point where these are interesting, not that
it isn't you know, always fun to go over and
have a great meal at One.

Speaker 4 (34:14):
North and see some people you know.

Speaker 5 (34:17):
But I always look at the attendance for things like this,
and I look at the reaction, and you can tell
talking to people when you know the end is drawing near.
And even people who like Jonathan Smith really like him,
like him personally, like what he did at Oregon State,

(34:40):
they don't have a lot of defense for what's going
on right now. If you say, you know, how's Michigan
State going to get to the next level, they don't
have answers. The question is does this coaching staff still
have the answer to that?

Speaker 2 (34:54):
Steven, I mean, I don't know. I expect him to
win this weekend. Like I said, I think those three
other games are all on the table. I don't know.
You know, John the Smith's not an easy guy to read.
I don't know him super super well personally. You know,
I don't have a line to sort of get a
pulse of where he's thinking. He doesn't reveal him a

(35:16):
lot like that. You know, I'm sure he feels some urgency.

Speaker 4 (35:19):
He was.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
He was as animated if he watches press conference's video
out there, put it on a little bit on my site,
like he was as animated and as frustrated as I've
seen him out in Lincoln after any game. I mean,
I think he thinks they're close. I think he thinks
that they're better than they are. I think he feels that,
you know, they've you know, it's clear that they've came
back and they they've made comebacks and they've made these
things competitive. So if you can do that on the

(35:42):
road against I think two quality teams and probably not
playoff teams with quality teams, then you do feel like
there's something there.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
You know, that's still a binary result at the end
of the day, but there's been some encouraging stuff. Again,
you kind of have to piece it together between two
games and it doesn't really correlate with one another, but
there's little bits that you can take out of each
one and you say there's there's something here. Well, yeah,
you know, do they have the answer? Like I don't know,
I mean, I picked them go seven and five this year.

(36:10):
They can still do that. I think they just lost
a four star commit. It looks like they're probably gonna
lose another highly rated kid with the linebacker Braven Hodge,
who's taking a bunch of visits, including the Michigan So
that piece has to come through. You know, they kind
of eased all those concerns over the summer, but that
that still has to get across the finish line. And
that's really gonna be the question, you know, if you

(36:31):
go five and seven and seven and five, where are
you at and a recruiting you know, realm to upgrade
the talent to do anything meaningful after that, that's gonna
be the question, you know. And if if they do
lose this game, you're probably not looking at a bowl game,
and then you're probably looking at what another five and
seven season? If that if not worse, then really, where
are you at going into year three in terms of momentum,

(36:52):
in terms of talent acquisition and building towards anything that's
tangibly better in year three? I mean, you're hoping to
go seven and five again and your three that's not
going to get many people excited either. So in terms
of the long term trajectory and whatnot, you know, six
and sixty seven of five has to be in the
cards this year, and even then I think you can
sort of fairly question exactly how it's going to play

(37:13):
out from there. But that's at least the baseline of
where they have to get to, and that starts with
getting this one this weekend.

Speaker 4 (37:21):
Yeah, I said that.

Speaker 5 (37:22):
I thought making a ball game was the absolute dropped
at minimum for this team. It had to have. And
now I don't think that's necessarily going to be enough.
I don't think a lot of people will be happy
with six and six and a low tier Bowl what

(37:43):
I used to call skanking into a game. So I
think they're going to have to have a big second
half and it's going to have to involve an excellent
performance against Michigan. That game will be scrutinized in every
conceivable way, and if you have two of the top
recruits leaving, as you mentioned, that's not a good look.

Speaker 4 (38:07):
So for this staff to turn it.

Speaker 5 (38:10):
Around, it starts now, starts Saturday homecoming. A lot of
players there and Stephen Michigan State and UCLA in this series.
Not that these series things matter much, but they do
to fans. They're three and three and Michigan State hasn't
won a game over UCLA in sixty years. You have

(38:34):
to go back to the start of the nineteen sixty
five seasons, so you know, they haven't played often, but
they have lost three in a row to the Bruins,
and they need to They need to do it. They
need to do it now. This is really a precipice

(38:54):
they're standing in.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
Yeah, I was surprised at how few times they've played
over over the last few decades. I mean not at
all over several decades, but then even beyond that. But yeah,
I think what they really have to do is whether
it's six wins seven wins, you know, like the Nebraska
game would have been one like sort of punch up
sometime punch above your weight class, be to a team

(39:18):
that maybe shouldn't technically or a situation. You know, I
think Nebraska is about even ish, maybe a tick ahead
like talent wise, but not massively. But go on the
road there, recover from an awful start and punch back,
punch up and find a way to get that win.
That's the thing that really hasn't happened. Yet. I get
maybe Iowa last year, but that wasn't a great Iowa team.
You still had to kick six s field goals. Wasn't

(39:39):
super satisfying. But that's what people are waiting on. And
if that six or seven wins include something like that,
I mean, if they're somehow able to stun Indiana or
Michigan at home, or even Penn State. If Penn State
is totally knocked out of the playoffs as they've totally
lost their focus by mid November, they could be gettable
in a sense. But just that's the thing people really
want to see is don't just be what you're supposed

(40:01):
to do. Do something unexpected, you know, out coach somebody
who just rise up and do something that isn't formulaic
and seen on paper, you know. And I think that
would go a long way, even if it is seven
and five at the end of the year, six and six, even,
but some sort of rallying moment, in some moment where
people can just say, Okay, I'm in. Because since November

(40:22):
twenty twenty three, when this guy was hired, I think
a lot of people have been holding their bread trying
to decide if they're in or not, and so a
moment like that would do it. And there's a couple
opportunities to do it. But you know, Nebraska it was
another one to do that and they didn't get it done.

Speaker 5 (40:40):
Seven and a half million dollars a year, that's that's
a big number. Maybe it's not the top and the
coaching professions not certainly not the top of the big ten,
but it's a lot of money, and to a lot
of people who are paying seat licenses, it's really a
big number. I don't have any problem with Jonathan Smith.

(41:01):
I get along with them fine. I think you do too.
He's been fine to me. I don't know him well.
I think you mentioned that you don't really know him personally,
and I don't know anyone in the media who does.
There are very few coaches steven in the last six

(41:24):
decades that I have not had a personal relationship with,
for better or worse. I mean, I haven't liked and
they haven't liked me. But at least I've known them,
and I've known about that. And you know, it's hard
to make small talk with him. It's hard to have
the opportunity to make small talk with him or to
find out anything about him, and he stands up at

(41:49):
the press conference and he answers the questions. I don't
think he lies to us. I don't think he is
a manipulative person that way. But I don't see I
don't see anything that is endearing him to fans. I

(42:10):
don't think he has a lot of defenders. And it's
either people who have already made up their mind they
don't like him, or they don't know him, one of
the two.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
Yeah, And I was thinking about this the other day,
you know. Yeah, people are looking for a reason to
cling on, a reason to believe, a reason to buy in,
and he's their coach, you know. And I think a
lot of people want it to happen, but there is
some that are convinced that I just won't already. And
that kind of reminded me of Rich Rodriguez in Michigan,
where I think there's no debate. His career shows he

(42:42):
is a good coach, and Jonavan Smith has done good things.
I think he is a good coach too, but maybe
a weird fit. But the bigger thing is people not
giving him a chance, you know. And then Brady Hope
comes in with a lot of his players, and I
think goes to the Sugar Bowl that first year or
very soon after. So I do think Jon Smith is
a good enough coach to get Michigan say where they
want to go. But other things got to come into play.

(43:02):
They got to recruit better. But I think folks got
to give him a chance too, Like I think if
you arm him with a well funded roster, which this
is in some ways and isn't the most in other ways,
but if he's playing on equal footing with the elite programs,
I think he's a good enough coach to do things
that you want to do. But there is a weird
hesitance to give him any slack or to buy in.

(43:24):
And some of that is tied to what we just
talked about, where he doesn't have this big personality and
folks don't really feel like they know him or can
connect with him yet. But I think all that's overrated too,
and I think those are things that people stretch for
and reach for when you're not winning games. I think
if he was sixteen games seventeen games in, if he
was you know, twelve and five at this point, you know,

(43:45):
people wouldn't care what he looks like on the sideline
or how he acts or whatever. But because those wins
haven't come yet, that's just something else that sort of
sticks in their crop. But I just think that I
think that he's proven enough to that he need some
time to get it right. And people are sick of
hearing that, and I get it. And he's paying for
twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, twenty twenty and twenty twenty two

(44:07):
and twenty twenty three. That's right things and other stats
and other coaches did to this program. He's saying for that,
and I think that's unfair. But there's just a weirdness
too about embracing him, even if he's not this magnetic personality,
it is kind of a weird thing. I just you know,
if you're misign sate and you want to hit the
eject button, okay, you can start over and then do
all that. And I'm not saying he wouldn't get it

(44:28):
right if he gives him ten years. I don't know that.
But you'd sure hate to lose a guy and see
him get it right somewhere else because he didn't give
him enough time, or you were doing the rich rides.
He's not one of us, you know, from the beginning
type of thing. So it's a weird situation right now
surrounding him. I'll say that.

Speaker 5 (44:48):
He is an outsider. Clearly he's not familiar with this area.
People don't really relate to him, and the rich Ride
comparison isn't excellent one because I think Richardriguez is a
very good coach, but just was in an impossible situation
at Michigan and Jonathan maybe on that same path. There's

(45:10):
one other situation like this, Steven from history, and it
was at Michigan State and it was Daryl Rogers and
Daryl stuck around four years and then he was looking
for the first opportunity to get to warm weather and
he went back left Michigan State, went to Tempe, Arizona.
It doesn't get much warmer than that, where he could

(45:33):
play golf all the time and he wasn't shivering eight
months a year. So I see a little bit the
same reaction to Darryl. A lot of people didn't know him.
Those who did liked him, but they didn't really relate
to him. The one thing they did love that they
didn't see they haven't seen here was an offense which

(45:58):
set a big ten scoring record, so that endeared Darryl
to a lot of people, even people who had never
spoken to them, that they liked that part of it.
They didn't like the defense, they didn't like some other things.
But when you have Kirk Gibson and Ed Smith and
some other guys, you can do some things and you
can say, well, yeah, but if you have a high profile,

(46:21):
high budget quarterback like Aidan Giles and one of the
best receivers in terms of talent, Nick Marsh, you should
be doing some of those things that Daryl Rogers did.

Speaker 4 (46:31):
So it's a tough one. Wanted to ask you very quickly.

Speaker 5 (46:38):
But a couple of other Big ten games this week,
and does Michigan State have a better chance to beat
UCLA than Oregon has a beating Indiana?

Speaker 4 (46:50):
Do you think the Hoosiers could.

Speaker 5 (46:55):
Stamp themselves now as a serious championship contender. There's two
teams to be top ten in the country in offense
and top ten in defense, or do.

Speaker 4 (47:07):
They get.

Speaker 5 (47:10):
Shown the difference between where they are and where they
think they are out in Eugene, Oregon.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
I lean toward the ladder. I think Indiana's like playoff good.
I think Oregon's national title good and going out there
you know that's the Indiana likes rubbing everybody's face in
it until they find a bigger bully and then they
get their face rubbed in it. So I think it'll
be more like that. I think Oregon to click ahead
and then going out there is tough. It will be
the best team they've seen by far. I think Oregon

(47:40):
wins that one by double digits.

Speaker 5 (47:46):
And what about Michigan at USC. These teams don't really
like each other, not just because the USC owned them
for so long in the rose Ball, but last year
I don't think it went over well the reaction when

(48:07):
USC came to ann Arbor and pretty much dominated the
game and managed to lose it. Miller Moss, I think
just completed another pass.

Speaker 4 (48:17):
In that game.

Speaker 5 (48:18):
And now you have Sean Moore talking about the crowd
it's going to be a sellout, which doesn't happen all
that often, maybe less than half the time in the coliseum,
and Michigan's saying, well, it's only because we're there and
everyone's coming to watch us, and USC is bristled at that.

(48:40):
So this is going to be a very interesting game.
How do you see it turning out?

Speaker 2 (48:49):
I don't know. I don't have a strong feel either way.
I know I really want to watch it. I mean
the travel and all that, like, it hasn't gone well
for folks, you know. I mean at Penn State plays
a game one times on a way, you know, instead
of two or I'm sorry instead of three, you know,
does that go differently? I don't know. They have their
own thing going on obviously after you know, let down

(49:09):
at home, but if you have to factor that in
these these the data shows it's not easy to win
when you make in this cross country travel. You know,
if USC gets a two possession lead and michign come
come back from that, that's the thing. The receivers and
skilled players have really let Brice Underwood down. They're not
catching anything. They do have a great run game. Is
that going to be enough to sustain them? But we

(49:30):
know USC can pop off in the blink of an
eye and then boom you down fourteen nothing or whatever.
You're down fourteen points, they're then to be fourteen nothing
but two possessions and a heartbeat out there. Yeah. I
think their crowd will be pretty due stuff. They have
a lot of good fans. Michiganill have a good representation too.
But in Michigan's defense is good. You know, will they
give up the same type of explosives and huge drives

(49:51):
that we saw from Michigan State. I don't know, So
I don't have a strong feel. It's a great stylistic matchup,
so I'm really curious to see. But I guess I
leaned towards USC by a nose just because of the
travel element, because of the explosive element, that if they
just if you get a nose ahead, that might be enough.
With their offense and the way the Michigan is one

(50:12):
handed offensively, we.

Speaker 4 (50:16):
Have seen.

Speaker 5 (50:19):
USC give up yards on the ground and Michigan State
ran the ball effectively on them. So I imagine right now
Justice Haynes is salivating about this last thing I promised
for her.

Speaker 4 (50:32):
We let you go. I just saw this. In fact,
it just broke.

Speaker 5 (50:37):
We talk about coaches and their security and used to
be that, you know, you got a little bit longer. Well,
everyone is on a shorter leash now North Carolina today,
North Carolina. Right, they were a story of the off season,
bringing in Bill Belichick, putting a boatload of money into

(50:57):
the football program.

Speaker 4 (50:59):
Guess what they did this morning, Steven.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
I don't know. The only thing I saw is that
they canceled their little documentary series, But no, shoot me.

Speaker 5 (51:10):
North Carolina Brass met preliminary conversations exit strategies for Bill Belichick,
and there's a chance, a chance that Bill Belichick will
be out before Friday's night's game against cal Can you
believe that?

Speaker 2 (51:31):
No? No, I can't. I mean, I'm surprised that how
badly it's gone. I didn't think it'd be smooth right
out of the gate, but man, for everybody to be
pulling the you know, the rip chord right now, that's
kind of stunning. You know, with all they invested into him,
the changes they made, and it's, yeah, that's a weird one.
I mean, it was a weird thing to go go
for it, but then go for it might have play out.

(51:52):
Maybe there's maybe Bill's had enough. I don't know. The
whole thing's been very weird. But yeah, to pull the
plug this early seems a little I'm short sighted. I guess.
I don't know if it's going to get better, but
with all that they've done, it just seems like you
should let it play out a little more. But I
don't know, Maybe it's just doomed. I mean, it's been
pretty bad, but that is surprising that it's all crumbling
this fast.

Speaker 5 (52:15):
Steven, thanks so much. Really appreciate all your time. I'll
let you get back to all these baseball games.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
Oh can't wait.

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the highest level of quality on repairs and custom designs.
Whether it's worn out fronts, channels or shanks, it's all
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Jackson and Portage. I want to help you preserve your
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today for the cleaning and inspection of your jewelry. We

(54:25):
continue to work hard every day to earn your confidence
and trust.

Speaker 1 (54:30):
Why Jewelers, Yeah, Gablin Here with my good friend Matt
Sloan a graph of Oochemists. Big summer here, Matt.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
That's right, Jack.

Speaker 3 (54:40):
We got the summer savings going on right now at
Graph Nissan and Graph Chevy of Ochemists. Great deals. We're
offering zero percent financing on select vehicles up to sixty
months if you're a CASTO member. We got extra rebates
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a great summer. We got great deals for.

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You zero Pertek.

Speaker 1 (54:59):
Can't get my flow to.

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The That's exactly right, Defancy, Matt.

Speaker 4 (55:02):
In the gang here on West Grand riverd Okometz. They're
making friends.

Speaker 6 (55:07):
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Speaker 2 (55:20):
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Speaker 6 (55:29):
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(55:50):
upcoming season. Like and subscribe to our YouTube and Facebook
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I'm your host, Dave Russell