Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I was just informed that our pregame covers for Utah
BYU will actually be in an hour earlier.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
To set your alarm.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
On Saturday, portal will get going at one o'clock instead
of two o'clock, with a kickoff being at six o'clock
down in Provo. Utah remains a three point five point
favorite for the rivalry game.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
So we'll talk more football now.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
One of our favorites, former Cougar Jim Herman, on the
program on this Tuesday afternoon afternoon.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Excuse me, hello, Jim? How are you, sir?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
I'm great, Spence. How the heck are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
We're good man. It's a fun week around here, as
you know.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
As you know, So when I say Utah BYU, Jim,
what comes to your mind?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Oh my goodness. Well one is I was just telling
port I'm a huge college football fan, so anything big
in college football I love. I love to be around.
My brother played at Michigan. Michigan Ohio State certainly a
big deal in our house. I think we may have
talked about this before, but you don't have a whole
lot of NFL owners on your program, But I am
(00:59):
an owner of the Green Bay Packers. We owned four
shares as a family, so we got the packer bear
thing going on that I grew up around. And yeah,
I mean rivalry and sports, that's really what it's all about.
It doesn't get any better. And so I think of
being Kyle Woodenham's teammate my freshman year and his dad
being my coach and our our coach, our defense coordinator.
(01:20):
And we played up at Utah and I was fortunate
enough I played it, I think basically every game as
a freshman. Not a lot, but I got to play,
and Coach Whittingham liked me and always would get me
in for a handful of plays and we got off
the So I was with the seniors in the team
room and then our position room all year, and you know,
(01:42):
it was kind of just an average year. I think
we were eleven and one, and I was like, okay, rookie,
hey man, you're going to see something you've never seen before.
And I'm like, dude, I grew up in the Midwest,
like Michigan, Ohio State Bear's packers. I'm kind of throwing
all this stuff out him and we're like, no, there's
like nothing you've ever seen. And I'm like, really, and anyhow,
as a seventeen year old freshman, we drive up there
(02:04):
on this cold, rainy day and we get off on
the east side. Used to get off on the east
side of the stadium and the visitor locker room was
kind of under the south east side of the stadium.
And we got off and there's all these people that
are waiting, which to be by. Now, I went to
BAU as a Catholic kid from the Midwest. I didn't
understand the whole schurch affiliation all that stuff. Obviously, throughout
(02:26):
the season I would get it. You know. We'd go
to UCLA and there would be thirty thousand people there
and I'm like, oh, there are people that are church
members and they're fans and they're here to meet us.
And so I drove up to Utah. We drove up
to Utah and there's all these people waiting for our buses.
So I just assumed they were BAU fans. They got
there early and got off, and after about nine f bombs,
(02:49):
I'm like, no, not Utah, not p by U fans.
This is different. This is different. Similar to Wyoming, but different.
And then frozen banana came flying out of the crowd.
And hit Coach Whittingham on the side of the head
and he went literally ballistic took. I don't know if
you remember Coach Whittingham, but he was every bit as tough,
(03:11):
it's not tougher than his son Kyle. And it took
ten guys to hold him back from him going up
in the crowd to figure out who threw the frozen banana.
And then we went in. We warmed up. It was cold, rainy.
There's this guy named Jack Campbell. It was like a
transfer from USC. He was a big offensive lineman running
into the goalpost and Darryl Hanley and all these big
dudes were playing. I'm freshman, thinking, please don't play me
(03:33):
in this game. This seems pretty intense. And then yeah,
Coach Wheeningham gave a Max Hall inspired speech before Max
Fall was even born pregame because he was the recipient
of the frozen banana. And then I'm like, all right,
I just was baptized into this little rivalry and it's
a heck of a rivalry, man, will let me tell you.
(03:54):
And I was fortunate enough, and I mean this sincerely.
I actually heard Scott Mitchell, I think, had a great
take this morning on the rivalry that as much as
the other teams, And I'm going to really try to
use the word dislike because I think that's just better
for our nation and everyone else at this point in time.
We use plenty of the other way that other h were.
But as much as the teams dislike each other or
(04:16):
the fan bases dislike each other, we're really good for
each other and they're really good for each other's programs
to elevate it, to push it, to continue this rival,
to rivalry, to create this rival, to create a national presence,
to do all those things. Like, We've been really good
for each other, And even though we despise each other
(04:36):
at times, I think each program has elevated the other
program out of necessity and out of all the other
emotions that drive all this other stuff to keep up
with the other team. So I've got unbelievable memories of
this whole thing. My train of thought that I was
going down was my five years I read shirted a year,
(04:57):
but my four or five years affiliated were playing, and
five affiliated, I wanted Utah to be undefeated every year,
like I really did. I know a lot of people
cheer against BYU and I a lot of BA fans cheer
against Utah. They want them to lose every other game,
including the game were playing. But I wanted it to
be Michigan, Ohio State. I wanted I wanted Utah to
(05:19):
be eleven and oh. I wanted BYU to be eleven
and oh. And I wanted to play in this massive game.
It was for the WAX Championship and to go to
the Hollywood Bowl and have it beat this huge deal.
And sadly, You's always disappointed me because somewhere along the
line they lost to Wyoming or air Force or New
Mexico or you know, they lost two or three games
they shouldn't have lost. And it was still obviously a
(05:41):
big game because it was a rivalry, but I really
wanted it to mean everything, and it did in the
sense that you know, you had rights to say that
you had won for the next year. But I wanted
it to really come down to us, to these two
teams that were geographically an hour apart, and I think
really the better programs that were consistently in the conference
(06:03):
at the time, you tell us a little more inconsistent
than bau backs then. But yeah, I got just unbelievable
memories of the whole thing, and then just all the
crazy things that have happened over the years. I've stayed
cut in close contact with the program. I'm good friends
with Kyle. I see Kyle frequently. I have stopped by
and visited him at the facility more than once to
(06:26):
talk football and family and all sorts of stuff. So
I love everything affiliated with it, and I'm super pumped
for the week, and it's one of the best weeks
of the year.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
I wonder if you could shed a little bit of
light on what it was like to play with Kyle
and whether or not you saw something early in him
as a teammate that would indicate at some point he
would make a great head football coach.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Yeah. Absolutely, I mean, for well, first and foremost, his
dad set the tone for so much. I can't think
of anyone that was more respected around BAU football when
I was there, and so much of that I see
in Kyle. It's weird. As time goes on, I guess
maybe we all become more like our parents. Which, by
the way, was awesome to see your dad this summer.
(07:11):
I wanted to say that at the start of the show.
So nice of you guys to come to our event
and I haven't seen your dad forever, so good to
see him. But yeah, I remember when when coach we
didn't have passed away. Dick Harmon wrote this article and
I think the opening line was I thought even death
was afraid of Fred Wading Maham And he meant it
(07:33):
in a respectful way and obviously tongue in cheek, who
the way he wrote it. But they embodied toughness. They
embodied you know what, football, at least old school football,
and football, unless it changes dramatically, is always going to
be about his effort, toughness and being prepared and punching
the other guy in the mouth harder than he punches you.
(07:53):
So Kyle was our leader, He was our captain, He
was the defensive player of the year. He was also
a great leader for the team, like you could actually
talk to him. His dad was scarier to talk to
for whatever reason, probably probably our fault more than his.
But yeah, Kyle set the tone in so many ways.
The whole Whittingham family did. They I do them as
(08:15):
BAU Football Royalty when I was there, Like it was
coach Edwards obviously, and then Fred and then all the
Whittingham family you know, Carrie and Kyle and Freddie and
they were all there and they just kept coming. And
you know, coach we name was such a big part
of establishing you know, a lot of people certainly remember
(08:36):
Jim McMahon and all the unbelievable offensive things that happened
at BAU in the eighties and the nineties, but Bays
had some pretty good defenses over the years, and what
you're seeing now is just a it's it's the same defense.
I think it's probably I would recognize probably the same calls,
the same line up, the same formation, the same everything.
(08:57):
It's obviously Kyle's put his own spin and modified and
adapted as college football's changed, but it's still the base,
same defense. So yeah, it's not surprised at all. Kyle
was a leader back then. He's always been a leader.
He emanates all the great things that embody a great leader,
which is, you know, respect, And I'm not just because
(09:20):
of the things he says, but because of the things
he's done. And I think the program is a direct
reflection of who he is. And I'm a huge Kyle
Whittingham fan. I think most Utah fans are Kyle Whittingham fans.
I'm always surprised. I just played in the golf tournament
(09:41):
where a diehard Utah fan somehow feels that, in his opinion,
Kyle's held the program back offensively, And it took me
about four holes not to watch to punch the guy
in the mouth. But I'm just like, dude, are you
kidding me? Do you know how blessed you are to
have this coach and what he's done for your program,
Like it's mind blowing. And to somehow think think that
he's held the program back in any way, shape or form,
(10:02):
I just think is your skewed view of expectation level
and what everything should be. But he he has put
his personality on that program, in my opinion, in the
most positive way and has changed it into a perennial, respected,
(10:23):
national program, and that is really hard to do.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
We had doctor hillon yesterday, doctor Chris Holl, who was
the athletic director at Utah for a long long time
and the man who hired Urban Meyer and then after
Urban left for Florida, put all of his chips in
the middle of the table to make sure the wits
stuck around here. What was it like for the alumni
when Kyle said no to his alma mater and yes
(10:49):
to stay in here at Utah.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Hey, well, these are one of these moments where I
don't know, Maybe I should not tell the story.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Maybe I should very much should.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
It's what I it's what I remember, and it's great
that that that uh what I call him, Coach Hill,
Doctor Hill, doctor Hill, doctor you know what, Spence, I
graduated from law school and I'm not sure if you're aware,
but that's a juris doctorate degree.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
I'm happy to call you doctor Herman. I'm happy to
call you doctor.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Or doctor Glakowitz, whichever you prefer, doctor Herman or doctor Glackwitz,
which is great. Yeah, And anyhow, I think that's a
great spin that doctor Hill puts on it. But I
think mister Spence Ecles should get a lot of a
lot of praise for making that happen. Because coach Edwards
(11:40):
was getting inducted into the National College Football Hall of
Fame and we were back in New York for his
ceremony the weekend. This was all going down, and we
Steve was working for ESPN at the time. He had
just kind of transitioned out of the NFL, which seems weird,
(12:00):
it really is that right? Anyhow, Yeah, we got in
a car and we were driving up to We were
driving up to ESPM for it was a Saturday, and
we're gonna spend the night at there and then Steve's
gonna do the kickoff show for Sunday. And we called
Kyle and he said, Hey, I'm coming home facing it
(12:23):
in in the morning and press conference. We'll do press
conference sometime next week. I hope you guys are there,
and we're like sweet, and you know, we hung up
the phone going all right, Kyle's back, this is great
the way we go. And then two days later, I think,
(12:43):
in a big check from from Spence Ecles And and
you know, obviously it's more than that, but that was
a big part of it at the time. You know,
salaries were not certainly what they are today, and people
forget like he you know, it was a significant bump
and pay. And obviously he was come there, he had
spent time there. He was I don't think he was
(13:03):
dying to leave. But at the same time, it was
also an opportunity to go back to his school where
he played that you know, he was going to get
a raise from where he was at Utah to there
and all those things, and so yeah, my recollection is
probably different than than doctor Hills, but yeah, it's kind
of the same story. It's a different perspective, right, And
(13:27):
and I think Kyle was was interested or open to
or had kind of maybe verbally or otherwise committed to. Yep,
I think we've got this worked out. And going back
and then to doctor Hill's credit and to I think
some of the boosters and the program in general and
players I'm sure that were integral and telling how much
(13:48):
they wanted him to stay. He ended up staying, and
I think it's been great for him. Like I mean,
my goodness, what a what an unbelievable career path, and
and what a great decision it was, you know, in
retrospect and really probably at the time for him and
his family. So things work out for different reasons and
and certainly would have loved to him have him back
(14:10):
at the BUYU, but who knows, you know, things, you know,
things happen differently in different paradigms. So like I said,
I think it's awesome what happened. Certainly, we'll always feel
like Kyle's one of my teammates and someone who I
love and respect and had the opportunity to play with
and just have a ton of respect for him now
(14:31):
and everything he's accomplished as a college football coach. It's
it's unbelievable. So yeah, it's interesting and it's and it's
a really fun to think back on all of it.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
What do you think this week is like for coach Witt?
Speaker 1 (14:46):
You know, we're gonna interview him tomorrow, and you know,
ultimately it just always feels like and I honestly don't
know this to be true. This is just kind of
the way I've digested some of his comments and just
the way he almost looks like he's a little annoyed
this week. It's almost almost looks like he's a little
like extra tired. Look, he's a competitor, as you know,
(15:07):
he wants to win every single game. I wonder if
you feel like there's a conflict that goes on in
his mind. I wonder if you feel like the years
that he's the decades he spent up here have even
made him want to beat them even more. I just,
since you're friend, your perspective on what this week is
like for Wit?
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Yeah, that's a great cress in one is I, you know,
because I love and respect him. The first thing I
asked him when we sit down is like, so, dude,
how do you feel about the You know, I just
first of all, I get it. You know, I totally understand.
Like I mean, coach Chaw is our coach for years
at Bay You what's my perspective of Coach Chow is
that he's a b way you guy. Like, that's just
(15:48):
my perspective. But the reality is he played at the
University of Utah.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
You know.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
It's like I remember and being in college at the
time and having him be a coach, I didn't really
have the maturity to understand what that all meant. I
just like, no, this dude, the by you guy, your kidney.
He's changed college football. He's throwing the ball, he's just
revered offensive coach and offensive coordinator that's done a whole
bunch of great things for college football. But at the
(16:13):
time when he's coaching us, he's a Utah He played
football at Utah, and and I think that's once it's
your school, it's always your school. Now. That doesn't mean
it changes importance as your life unfolds in front of you.
But being a I think I'm hyper competitive. I think
I have similar traits to Kyle in some way, shape
or form, and I'm just as competitive as he is.
(16:35):
And I can see all those things that come out
of his mouth coming I'm out of my mouth, and
he's probably he's probably better at controlling some of it
than I could control. But yeah, if you're a competitor,
you you want to win, and life experiences shape continue
to shape your personality. And I don't think Kyle's ever
going to change. But I think in the moments, you know,
(16:58):
whether it's Bronco leaving and then Klonie coming in, at
that point in time, there's a there's a friendship involved
in a long standing career relationship, and you know, maybe
and maybe maybe I don't need to be as intense
as I used to be, and maybe this is always
about being competitive, but also finding a way to to
make it more palatable, more coach Edwards and Coach Mac
(17:22):
type style, and and I don't know that, but I'm
sure all those things, you know, go through your head,
and then you have a couple of really tough games
and then it's like, you know what, I think I
still want to punch these guys in the mouth, and
I'm just going to really bear down and as we
work through the week, I'm going to keep my level
of intensity up. And I don't need to talk about him,
(17:43):
you know, I'm I'm the coach of this team and
that's the one thing I can control. And knowing him,
he's going to have them beyond prepared to just to
make great things happen. And I don't doubt that for
one second. I mean, if there's one guy who I
don't really want to prepared to beat because he's so
prepared and he gets their team so ready, is Kyle Whittingham.
(18:05):
He's a formable opponent for sure.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Well, in you reference, everything happens for a reason. And
when Kolani was up here as the defensive coordinator, I
did a coaches show with him every week, and within
the first month, I'm like, dude, somebody's going to hire
this guy and at some point he's going to be
a really, really good head coach. So Bronco leaves, Kilani
takes over and he's been there a decade, which is wild.
He just turned fifty last week and we had Klannie
(18:30):
on the show last month, and you know, it's interesting.
Jim I've noticed that the past couple of years, after
they've brought Jay down there, the way BYU is now
covered is very similar to the way Utah's covered. They're
given the benefit of the doubt because they've got a
great defense, and you know, the days of the high
powered offensive attack being BYU's calling card are no longer.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
What's in front of us.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
I'm not saying they have a bad offense, but it
seems like they're covered and talked about the same way
Utah football is covered and talked about under coach wit So.
I asked Kilani, as you've been building this thing in
the past decade, how much of this is you?
Speaker 2 (19:05):
How much of this is Kyle? How much of this
is Lavelle?
Speaker 1 (19:08):
And you know Kilane, he's the sweetest guy, so he
just he deflected, He deflected all Karti. He said, this
is all Lavelle, It's all with and obviously there's a
little bit of Kilani involved as well. But what do
you what do you make the way Kilani has built
this thing up now a decade, you know, as the
head coach at b YU.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Yeah, now you're putting up some really good points. Actually
cut out for a minute, but I got I think
I got your gist of it. I mean, when I
was there, look'd we'd a top ten ten team defensively
in a lot of categories my senior year, but we
were never covered that way. It was all about the offense, right,
And it was And now I think, yeah, if you
think of Utah, what's their identity? Who they are? They're
(19:48):
a defensive team and and that's how they're covered. It's
that's I got your gist of what what your comments were.
But yeah, and I think pretty soon it takes on
the personality and that's who you become, right. I mean,
I don't about you, but if I'm getting recruited by
the University of Utah, what's the one thing I'd been
thinking about is I'm going to go to a team
that freaking plays unbelievable defense and has a defensive personality
(20:12):
that we're going to be top ten in multiple categories.
It's not every category. We're going to be super tough
lines the scrimmage, defensively and every other way. We're going
to put defensive backs in the NFL. We're gonna put
defensive linemen and linebackers in the NFL. And then you know,
I don't know if I'd want to be a receiver
at Utah in the last ten fifteen years because I'm
not going to catch a ton of balls and They're
(20:34):
going to find a way to have some pretty decent
running backs and control the line of scrimmage offensively and
score enough points to win. So that's my perception. And
you know, as far as Kilane, yeah, I mean by U,
I you know, as an alumni, certainly talk with a
(20:54):
lot of other alumni, and I'm a huge believer in
utilizing your assets. And I think you would be naive enough.
You would be naive to think that most people in
America if you said, what do you think about BYU,
they I think most of them are going to say
they have a ton of quarterbacks that they put out
and they throw the ball a lot, and they kind
(21:16):
of were one of the originators of the really opened
up the passing game in college football and making the
priority and you know, if you don't have a good
quarterback now in the NFL, you're not going to be
a good team. And you know, it's really changed. It
went from Oklahoma and Texas and all those teams as
being you know what college football was all about, which
(21:38):
then translated in the NFL was putting out great running backs.
So I think that's the legacy of Bau. That's my opinion.
I think Klonie has done a really good job of
channeling Coach Edwards. I think you if you didn't know
the program really well, you would think Coach just stood
on the sideline and shoot on his tongue. But he
(22:00):
did way more than that. He made all the decisions.
He was a general and he got two unbelievable lieutenants,
both defensively and offensively to run the program. And I
think Klannie has done the same. Instead of being stretched
as a defense coordinator, he realizes he's got a business
he's got to run, and the business is winning football games,
(22:23):
and that's empowering other people. And he's done that. He's
found a guy who empower and run the defense, and
he's found a guy to empower and run the offense,
and he runs the program. And so yeah, I think
he's done a great job. And the more I'm around Colonie,
the more I see Klannie. I just really respect his
skill set for being where he's at, which is a
(22:46):
church school and which has different missions and a lot
of other schools, and I think he's done a great
job of embracing everything, being a great football coach, being
a great football leader, being a great representative of the school,
embracing what the school was all about. You know, newsflash,
I didn't hear client talking a lot about the LS
Church when he's at the University of Utah. Well, I
(23:07):
hear him talking a lot more about the LIS Church
when he's at BUYU, as he should. Right the circumstances changed.
Still doesn't mean he's not a heck of a defense
coordinator and doesn't have all that in him, But he's
got another he's got another, you know, responsibility that that's
on his plate, and I think he's done a really
good job of dealing with them all and embracing them all.
And I'm I got a ton of respect for him.
(23:29):
I think, if you know, my honest critique is I
think he just he's continually gotten better. I think he's
a better football coach than he was ten years ago.
I think he's a better football coach than he was
eight years ago. And that might be stating the obvious,
but I think he learned a lot on the job,
as we all should, and as all as we all do,
(23:50):
we get better as we get older. But I think
he's I think he has just gotten better each year.
He's been there in so many ways. I don't know
if that answers the question, but that's kind of my take.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
No, it's great answer, And I'll just ask you one
more thing, Jim before I set you loose, and again
thank you for your time today. It is really interesting
when you really look at the data and the numbers
and the personnel. They're two very similar football teams, and
it's the line is Utah with a slight favorite. They're
three point the Utua are three point five point favorite.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Even though it's in provo.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Vegas usually builds in about three points for the home team,
So on a neutral field, what the line says is
Utah is about a touchdown better than BYU. Now, for
somebody like you that played in it, somebody like me
that's covered it for twenty years and was in school
and before that raised in a family that went to
this game every single year, we all know that it's
probably gonna come down to some wild thing that none
(24:46):
of us can predict at all. But do you have
a feel based on how similar the teams you know
appear to be and how close that line is about
what we'll see Saturday night.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Gosh, First of.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
All, thanks for having me if I don't could sit,
and I always love talking and I really appreciate your
reaching out. At second of all, I think you have
a great take. I'm really aligned with the way you think.
I think great mind stinc light obviously, but seriously I
agree with you. I go to this gym. I'm there
every morning. It's like cheers. Everyone knows my name and
(25:19):
I know everyone else's name, and we're we're gonna maybe
be competitors down the road because we think we're just
going to do some sort of like Big Brother show
from there, because all we do is work out and
talk sports for about two and a half hours every morning.
But my workout partner, one of my best friends, has
a died in the wool Utah fan these Crimson Club
guys fifty yard line seats for his whole life. Grew
(25:40):
up that way with his dad. I'm obviously the opposite
end of it. We're really really good friends and we
have really deep, impassioned conversations, super respectful. We kind of
bury that hatchet a long time ago where things are
get heated periodically. We're like, look, dude, which a good
of friends to do this, But we found a way
to converse AnyWho while anyhow we've done the same, we thought,
especially him, He's telling me all week, He's like, dude,
(26:01):
they're the same teap It's like their mirror image. And
I'm like, I don't know if I see it that way, man,
I see it is. Utah has a few more edges,
few more advantages than bau has. I think. I think
one anytime you start a freshman quarterback. It sounds crazy,
but I think it like guarantees you two losses, like
(26:22):
by the laws, by the football gods, by the football laws.
Like you can't start a freshman at the most important
position at a major D one program and win a
lot of games, especially ten or eleven or twelve. I
just think that's impossible. It's just such a complicated decision.
(26:42):
There's so many, so many things you have to do
on the fly and know and react, and it's it's
it's Why is Brian Johnson reviewed it at Utah? It's
not because of his sophomore junior seasons. Why is John
Beck a legend at B a youth, not because of
his freshman, sophomore, junior season, is because as seniors they
(27:03):
they matured into something of substance, and they they won
a lot of games. And so to me, that in
and of itself gives Utah the edge. But you're right,
I think their mirror images. We got quarterbacks that run
that are Multia said, which, by the way, Spence, how
many I don't know how many teams in college football
have their leading rusher as their quarterback. I heard you
(27:27):
say substats earlier, and I've just been thinking about the
game all week. I wonder how many that is? Like
to me, it almost reminds me of Air Force or Navy,
and I don't think of you. I don't think of
Utah as being Air Force or Navy. But you know,
your quarterback is your leading rusher, which is interesting. You know,
I'd be interesting to see how many how many teams
(27:51):
have that, But you know what, bous got a really
good rusher at quarterback. One's Tim Tebow and one's Lamar Jackson.
You know, they definitely have different styles. Want to looks
like Tim Tebow and one kind of looks like Lamar Jackson.
The way they run the way they move, how they run,
so definitely different styles. But as a defensive lineman, as
(28:11):
a guy who's been around football a long long time,
you know the old the old adage is, you know,
as the line goes, so goes, so goes the line,
so goes the team, so goes the team, so goes
the line. And so that freaking offensive line in Utah
is amazing. I think I think bas old line has
played better than anticipated. But I think oh Utah's line
(28:32):
is is unbelievable, and h I think they can find
a way to chew up the clock and and use
up time and and score. And I think on top
of that, they've got a new slash, they've got a
heck of a defense, and there's a freshman quarterback that
has to go against that defense. So to me, I
get the line like I get it, I mean to
(28:53):
me it if I'm I think I'm really pragmatic the
way look at my teams like the Milwaukee Brewers and
the Green Bay Packers. Come on, guys, let's go. But
it's also the way I look at BYU. I try
not to be emotional about it. It makes life easier.
But you know, as I pragmatically break it down. I
get the line. I'm hoping that rivalry and emotion. Obviously,
(29:14):
I hope my team somehow get some crazy nutty way
to have things go their way at the end. But
I get where Vegas is coming from.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Well, Jim, I'll set you loose. I know you're a
busy man. Should be a fun game no matter what,
because it always is. Thanks for the time, sir, Let's
chat soon.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Okay, you're the best brother. Good to hear from you.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Best.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Jim Herman, former BYU defensive lineman played on the nineteen
eighty four National championship team, played in the NFL for
the Cowboys and the Bengals, and can hit the hell out.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Of a golf ball. Tell you that much right now.
Appreciate Jim's time.
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