Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
No, we are not playing American Pie, so I can
use the restroom, Doctor Hill, I was unaware of this.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Well, that was a song.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
I think that was the one where they always said
radio guys could leave. It's kind of like we were
talking earlier when Smitty comes on, you know, Smitty talks
and you and I can leave, get a cheeseburger, come back,
and the story's over.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
You know, I was unaware, but it is a long song. Yeah,
we love our guys.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Smitty. How are you so great to see you.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
I'm doing well, doing really well, good good, Thanks so
much for the good time, you know, keeping just enough busy.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
So obviously for our listeners who are unfamiliar, Doctor Hill
was the athletic director at the University of Utah for
a number of years. When I say b Yu Utah
rival re week, what instantly pops in your mind?
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Well, you know it's it's it's you know, emotional everything.
It's kind of fun for me now to think about
go back and think, Okay, when I was working, what
was it like that work week? And now now when
I'm not working, what it's like now? And they're both different.
In our fans, you know, it's kind of like we
were working, you know, in a regular not a regular yeah,
(01:03):
regular company. There's Blue and Red fighting with each other
or we gotta work. It's like, let's get work done.
We gotta win this week. It was like, I'm not
betting you, I'm not arguing with you, and everything else
is still going on because the coaches are the coaches.
They want us to win because football means so much
to their recruiting. Right, and then at home, it's kind
of you know, when it's over now, I'm kind of
(01:24):
like it's an important game and I want them to win,
and you know, blah blah blah. But you know, whatever happens,
I'll probably at least fall asleep before midnight. We used
to win or lose. Who was three in the morning. Yeah,
So you know, and it's I look forward to it.
It's it's fun, but it's I mean, it is so different,
it's incredible.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Luckily this year it's kicking off at six, so we
all should be able to get in bed at a relatively.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Decent decent hour.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Do you have any favorite moments, memories, any like individual
snapshots from this game over the years. Is there one
or two that kind of pop in your mind at all.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Uh, we have, we have an hour. We have now
I want all of them. No, No, there's some good
and bad. You know.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Of course, unfortunately you remember some of the bad as
much as everything else. But you know, I can go
back and look at oh geez, that we beat b
Yu on one of my favorite payers, Luther Ellis got
to recover to fumble at the last minute to secure
the game. You know, I got the game that we
went to the Fiesta Bowl, and you know games we
(02:25):
won at the end, or the Conna Chierro when he
kicked in and bounced off, or Max Hall's situation, or
you know. It was a great running back. I was
trying to think of it. I thought one of the
best running backs in the country. And this is sick.
I can remember this. We're down there and he was
he got injured quite a bit, was it Luke Staley?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yes, he was. I thought he was maybe the best
running back in this state. He was good.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
And I'm looking and we're ahead and we're playing pretty well,
and that son of a gun.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Is what I can do. Sog, that so og, that Sog.
I can remember.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
He's on the far east sideline running north and room
right by everybody. Game over yeah, you know, yeah that
kick could fly, yeah yeah yeah. And of course the
you know, the winning the game with Yergison kicking a
field gold and then Urban's first year winning three nothing
I mean spectacular.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
It's it's funny, you know.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
The Max Hall moment is like the first thing that
a lot of people bring up. And you know, I've
had Max on the show a number of different times,
and I've really come to like him and respect him,
you know obviously, and he has said, you know, in
retrospect he'd liked that moment back. But I was like,
how did you guys process when you when you heard
what he said, Because that's as personal of a shot
(03:42):
anyone has really ever taken when it comes to the
history of the back and forth in this rivalry.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
All of us said, wow, they're gonna dump on BYU
even though they won, you know. So for me, you know,
it was annoying, but it wasn't like something we thought
about it. This is sick that just came into my head.
But I was working out at Steiner Recreation Area yesterday
and some guy comes in with Max Hall doesn't like me.
I'm going you gotta be kid.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah, yeah, move on.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
But no, for us, it was kind of a okay,
let's move on.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
You know.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
The guy that said, uh, somehow were God's team or something.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
I don't know who that was.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Oh, the magic happens, the Austin College magic happens when
you're living right now.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Was on my side of the feel on the west
side when he made that long catch.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
We were had enough.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
But anyway, that's enough. Sickness of remembering all the Bayu games.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
I want every memory, doctor that you have.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
You know, I can remember what I was listening to
that presser and I heard Max say what he said
because for our listeners who have may have forgotten the
year before, the game was here and Max threw five
picks and Max was a really really good college quarterback.
Was but that that was a game where Utah's defense
just caused a ton of havoc. They pressured him, he
threw five picks and you fans gave it to him.
(04:53):
And at the time he had expressed like, no.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
It's we're moving on. It's all good.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
The next year when they win, and he said that,
my first thought was, oh, it got to him last year,
like the heat he took after throwing five picks that
really got to him.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Oh well, yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
One of the great myths of all time is I
don't have a grudge. You know, I'm not going back
on him. You know, I don't care. I mean, it's
just another game and you know all that stuff, you know,
and for us there's you know, for me to so
many members. Unfortunately remember the the losses at the end
more than you do some of the wins. Yeah, you know,
and that's tough. I did tell McBride one time that
(05:28):
they used to do that. Whenever I talk about BUYU,
I have a learning disability, I think, because somebody's going
to call in and say that jerk and.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
The show.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
You know, I don't take myself as serious as let
me be the thought. You know, like to win. Everybody
likes to win. But I told Mac, they used to
do the the Senior blank is a little thing. They
used to do Senior Blanket Award down there right after
the game. God, it was humiliating enough to get clobber right,
But then we won a couple of times a game
and they moved the ceremony before the game. I said, Mac,
(05:59):
you caused them to change their plan. Yeah, sorry, I said,
I never thought we could win. I think it was
three in a row down there, and that changed the
whole deal. But yeah, you know, there's just so many
times and it seemed like we lost some really close
games for a while there, and we won some by
quite a bit at times. I mean, that's the heaven
celebrating in the fourth quarter and you know you're winning. Yeah,
(06:21):
that's about as good as a get.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Which is really rare in this game.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
I mean, unless there's a massive talent gap, like you know,
Urbans twenty four team probably the best football team we've
had in the state in my opinion. You know, I
think everybody knew that that was going to be a
little bit of a runaway. But oftentimes, even if there's
like a little talent gap, there's it's still a Brandon
Burton blocked field goal at the end. It's back to Harlean.
(06:46):
You know, it's just this miracle pass that's made in
the fourth quarter. It just seems last year by you
dead in the water, right, rets laugh is able to
find Chase Roberts and then you're going, oh my goodness,
because they're kickers, he's good a little player. They get
in a field goal range and give the kid credit.
He steps up and he kicks that game winning field. Well,
it took some stones. It seems like every year chaos
is what we expect.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
You're making me think of things now, So I got
one for you at Harlene.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Okay, okay, what's there? They beat us. We fly to.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Oregon next the next year, I mean a year away,
and we get off the plane and there's a sign
Harlene is still open. I thought, oh god, some people
do have a grudge. Yeah, you know, but for sure,
you know, it's it's it's a fun game. It was
so different being involved as an employee and now retired
as you know, I'm I'm a fan. But what hit
(07:35):
me is, you know, unfortunately my alma mater's Rutgers, and
you know they stink. But yet my brother played there
and I played He played football, I played basketball, they
told you, and it's kind of like, well, that's my team.
I didn't grow up with that team. Of course, Utahs
you know right there too, obviously, Yeah yeah, but not
as much as somebody who was born and raised here.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yeah, and that's actually what I wanted to ask you.
You know, I have I have kind of a unique uh,
tied to this game because I was born here and
then lived here as a kid, moved around because my
father changed jobs a bunch, So we settled here for
about you know, six six and a half years, and
when he left and took the job in New York,
we moved back east when I was eleven years old,
(08:16):
and then came back out and went to the U.
So I have like two different, you know, experiences, So
I wouldn't necessarily say I'm an out of state out
of state. My forvoradive years were spent back east. But
you you're a transplant here.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
What was your understanding and knowledge of this dynamic Utah
BYU prior to taking the job here?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
And what did you eventually learn about it? Yeah, not
no much, you know.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
I mean I was out here for a while, you know,
and I was a GA before it became a D
so you know, I knew the rivalry and I knew
it was important. As I was driving, Dear, I'm thinking
about I just mentioned earlier about how it's different in
our department the week of the game. I mean, it's
it's important, but it's not like crazy. But when I
was teaching at Granger High, school. That's when I realized
(09:01):
the rivalry because you going to school and there's some
teachers wearing red and some wearing blue, and they're arguing
about the game and they're saying this and that, and
then whoever wins, they come in the next Monday and
you know, sticking in your ear and you know, so
it's it's all over the chart.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yeah, it's important.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
It's it's really important to a lot of people, which
I've always found interesting, and I think it's too important
in a way to some Like it's a football game.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
These are kids, right, you don't play your coach.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Okay, so it relaxed a little bit, like it should
be fun at the end of the day, shouldn't it be?
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Well, you know, I mean, well that's why I say,
if you want to get into another topic. You know,
all the players getting paid and this and that we
awe them in this and that. I know the coaches
get paid. I used to play basketball. It didn't work basketball, right,
It's a big difference, you know. But I mean there's
so many things involved in it. And you know, the
question becomes if you're nine and three and lost to
(09:58):
b YU, and you're six and six and you beat
b what you? There's no question in my mind. You know, yeah,
some people may not feel that way. We got you,
We used to hat clabbored so many times, and you know,
now what it's come back where we had a wonderful
run and you know, at least I left a job
with a winning record against b what you.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
That's my most proud moment.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Do you remember? Do you remember what it is? Do
you know your personal records?
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Five up? Five up?
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Okay I started one in five Yeah, so you know
it was fun. But anyway, I mean, it's and it's
it's a week that players, coaches and people like me
that worked there had to let it go sooner than
the fans. Okay, you know it's just this, Yeah, you know,
you just have to, especially now it's the middle of
the season.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
So to start this rivalry, which you know, nineteen twenty two,
this is the one hundred and third edition. I know
BYU has a different way of explaining their understanding of
how this game has worked. I think mostly that's to
eliminate a lot of losses for them so they can
pretend the record is something. It's a very interesting way
to approach a number of different things. When inconvenient truths
(11:08):
are hard for you to accept. But we can move
on form that we can get away from that. So
Lavell takes over in seventy two, right, and that changed
the scope of everything. They go nineteen and two in
twenty one years with Lavell. So how did coach Mac
How was he able to kind of bridge this gap
and make this game competitive again and even beat them,
(11:31):
because that's a big thing. You hired him, and coach
Mac changed everything here like Lavell did down there.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Well, the guy has an unbelievable passion for University Utah,
so he can tell when he's recruiting this is not
some slick, fake guy coming in. So and there's a
couple of things that lined up to help us if
people wouldn't recognize. But Mac knew how to recruit, He
understood the mission, thing embraced it. I hope this isn't stereotype.
(11:58):
But you know a lot of Polynesians players come from
Utah now, and that's a hell of a thing. During
that same time, Rix dropped football, Yeah, that's right, all right.
And then during that same time, scholarships went from ninety
five to eighty five. So all of a sudden, we
got a little more of a pool. The training ground
(12:19):
for BYU at you know, Rick's college was done and
Mac put it together and he had all you know,
blue sky because he you know, he had so much
the gain. And then we used BYU. We weren't afraid
to say, hey, look what they have. We gotta beat
him when we're gonna do. But you know, Mac got
tough guys, and they played hard, and all of a
(12:40):
sudden we're toe to toe with them physically. I knew
when Luther Elis walked into our locker room as a freshman,
I say, we are a different team.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Okay, there's something different this I got. And when.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Bob Burks, was our orthopedic surgeon that started our sports
medicine program, in for his interview and he's with Bill Being,
the late Bill Being is one of the great guys
at all time, and he comes in and he goes,
he is interviewing. He looks at some of the guys
and he says, the ones the varsity.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Come in.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
He goes, no, no, this is just the varsity. So
Mac took, you know, some players and put them where
they needed to be. And I always think toughness, and
he got us to a level where we were com
genuinely competitive with him.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
So the nature genuinely competitive, and he beat them on
a number of different occasions as well. I mean when
you look at ninety three, thirty four to thirty one, yeah,
the old thirty four to thirty one thing, and then
you know ninety four thirty four to thirty one here
back down there, thirty four to seventeen, three straight wins
and actually five, five and two over the course of
(13:42):
seven years.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I think we won three down three in a row
down there in a row in Provo, you know, so
maybe you know it was not competitive, It was like, hey,
and what's great about it was the game was over
no matter what you say. Now, fans will go like,
they can't brag too much because there's next year and
they have a legitimate reason knowing that they may not win. Sure,
in the seventies and eighties, it was like a few
till winning was just a yeah, you know, blip in
(14:04):
the radar screen or whenever. You know, So it's different now. Yeah,
those games, you know, when you list them, I think, yeah,
that was a hell of a five six year period
that really took care of things.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
The nature.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
One of the really cool experiences I've had doing this
job for a few years was being able to do
some radio with Levell and Mac. We did some pre
and postgame stuff. I would fill in, you know, when
some of the other hosts would take time off, so
I was able to work with both of them together,
and as Lavelle aged a little bit, it was very
sweet to watch Mac, you know, kind of take care
(14:38):
of him. If Lavell lost a train of thought, Mac
would step in to help him finish this. So the
nature of that relationship was always something I think fans
really really loved.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
What did you witness there with l and Matt? I, you.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Know, I they're both kind of different than the same, sure,
you know. And and that commercial they did with the
thirty four to thirty one in a way, if I
was by you, I said, don't you do that?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Because it made it so warm and love and to
put them on the same level, did all that stuff,
and you know, people don't advertise because it doesn't help
do things. You know, people advertised this, so they maybe
he sold the bank thing, but that was hell for
me because it wasn't for security bank and Spence was
not happy with all, you know, and somehow Mac didn't
(15:26):
get in trouble because I couldn't and the president of
university didn't care. So I'm sitting there. Luckily Spence gave
up on it. But that was hell. I'll never forget
where I was when you know, we were getting into it,
and you know, I can't back down because I said, no,
it's Mac doesn't how many we can't do it. You know,
we're stay in all that stuff. But you know how
far that went. Sure, I went home and said, Cath,
(15:46):
I don't know what's next for me, but you know
I'm still young enough to go out and get something.
But now, yeah, No, the relationship they had is great,
lasted long time. Both didn't take themselves seriously, which is
I think one of the great qualities of anybody that's
in a position of visibility and well, every anybody in
a company, the head guy. If the head guy's not
(16:08):
you know, it's humble and doesn't take himself seriously everybody.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
It sets a tone, totally agree very underrated trait. You know.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
It's interesting because back to kind of my tie in
history with this game. I'm the oldest of six kids,
all five of my siblings went to BYU. All five
of my siblings meant their spouse at BYU. My dad
went to both, so he's the ultimate. Like he pretends
like he's neutral, you know, because he got his undergrad
from Utah, went and did his NBA at b YU.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
But I went, I went, I went to the U.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
So my brother I have a brother in law who's
just like your ultimate cliche annoying.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
BYU fan, like just the worst.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Love him to death when it comes to like this
game in BYU football, he has blinders on and still
to this day, if I ask him who's the ute
that just gets your you know, makes your blood boil,
who's the one coach player? And he says Urban to
his day. Yeah, Urban was only here a few years,
but it was a couple of different things. He coined
team down South, you know, like nobody nobody would even
(17:07):
say b Y's name, and also kick their heads in
and built up this program where BYU just kind of
fell behind. What did you see and if you have
any fun stories about Urban after you hired him?
Speaker 2 (17:18):
What he wanted this week to mean? What he wanted
this game to me?
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Well, when he said the team down south that says
it all Michigan, you know, Ohio State or all that stuff.
And you know, I mean that came the beginning of
the non glory years for me personally. All of a sudden,
I was a bad guy, but I am a bad
guy time. I don't think you're of no, but it
was it was just fun with him. I mean, I
(17:44):
you know, when you tell when I'm writing some stories
that I told you I'm finishing, my book is almost done.
He it was, you know, I can't think of things
I could say, but let's say he understood right away,
right away, and he would say, listen, Chris, I know
it's just not one game, Dune counts two.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
But I understand.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
He understood as soon as he came in because it
was at Colorado State, and you know, BYU against Colorado State.
Everybody's rival was BYU. But artists was basically that's the
way it is, you know. So yeah, Urban was big
on it. He kind of set him, made him angry,
you know. But you know, for me, I love these
fans when it's they talk about blue white and I
(18:28):
just talked about one of the fallacies of all time
or miss of all times. So or think thing. I
didn't understand. I root for BYU except when they played Utah.
Are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Sorry, this is gonna get me in trouble? Now you're good. No,
I'm just looking at him saying does not hate.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
But you you know, if you're in the same league
and you're fighting for a second place, you're not rooting
for BYU.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
I rooted it for.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
BYU once level in a bowl game and he lost.
So I lost the game that I wanted to win.
And then I you know, it was root for BYU sided.
I'm to take a shower.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
It's terrible. I wonder so your reference.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
You know that time when Urban you know, rolled in
here and built Like I said, I believe the best
football team we've ever had in the state was Urban
Is twenty fourteen fifty two to twenty one.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Just smacked them. But when you say during that time,
you became the bad guy, tell me what you know?
Speaker 3 (19:25):
It just was kind of like, all of a sudden,
we weren't behaving ourselves, you know, all of a sudden
we were winning. And I think you know when it
first got on, I went down to speak at b
YU three.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Weeks after I got the job. Have I told you
just before? No?
Speaker 3 (19:39):
No, okay, you know, because I you know whatever. So
they invite me down and they say, well, you know,
we're going to Cougar Club. We're gonna make a little
funny but don't worry, and I'm taking Kathy. I'm situ
wised guy. It's not like I'm gonna bother, right. We
just have three minutes and this and that. So I
mean this, I'm on the job three weeks. So I
go down there and my wife and my two little
(20:00):
blonde haired kids, beautiful with their ute stuff. And the
guy gets up and it's I'm making up the name.
But brother Peterson gets up. I have nine children, goes crazy.
Seven went to b Yu, everybody goes crazy. Two went
to Utah and I said, that is.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
The biggest softball in the world. I said. I got up.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
I said, brother Peterson, it's nice that two of your
kids got a great education.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
And I sat down. Kathy goes, what are you doing?
You know?
Speaker 3 (20:28):
I said, I couldn't help, but it came in my head.
There's nothing I could do.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
That's funny. No, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
It just seemed like we stopped behaving themselves when we
win and Urban kind of was like, hey, we're gonna
win and that's it. And you know, but but for
me and Urban, we were building a facility. Okay, it
was this second year and we're gonna build a facility.
And Spence came to and said, hey, I'll give you X,
but you got a rain X in three months, so
(20:54):
I'm taking Urban out. And he was all excited. You
asked him to this day this was one of his
favorite memories. But he also wanted to So going out
to visit with a Woodbury family, we're gonna go. We're
driving out there and he said, you know, we're talking
back and for a mile an hour. Maybe you know,
I don't know what it was about it, Sony. We
drive up and he says, well, what's my job? I said,
(21:15):
your job is to be charming, excite him, give him
a few plays. You know you'll have them froth and
at the mouth, and don't mess it up. I didn't
use mess Sorry, we don't mess it up. Yeah, and
I'll ask for the money. And to this day, when
we went out to dinner the day when he's here,
he said, that's my favorite moment when you said that
to me, don't blank it up.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
You know that.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
So, but he was there because he knew he needed
facilities and he used his juice. So but anyway, I mean,
he did make a turning point. I mean your brother
in law or whatever it is you're talking about. Yeah,
a lot of people got angry. Then, Oh yeah I
got angry, And I was like, is that because we
want a championship?
Speaker 2 (21:52):
We weren't supposed to do that?
Speaker 3 (21:54):
I'm sorry, are we supposed to apologize?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (21:56):
You mean we're going to the Fiesta Bowl and you
guys are I mean, I don't believe in cheap humor,
would be Yu not one of those guys. Yeah, you
almost consider potty humor, so not doing that. But I'm
just saying that was hard for the swallow.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Well, it's interesting though, the phrasing you're using, because I
can remember one of the shows I did with Mac
and Levell. I just asked, Max, so, you know, it
always felt like you guys were close. It always felt
like you guys had this really good relationship, and Max said, yeah,
as long as we didn't beat him. And once we
started beating him, so it's to your point exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
It was kind of like we didn't behave ourselves, and
you know, I think that, well, this is getting too
deep into like how the state feels about us and
the legislatures. Let me started winning, and I'm not going
to get in there. Okay, well you ken if you want,
I don't care.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Well, I don't know that I really fully understand exactly
what you're alluding to. So I mean, you can say
whatever you'd like to say in spaces you want to
stay away from.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
I always stay away from them. I think people know
how I've I feel.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
It just seemed we got a place you weren't behaving
ourselves right, and all of a sudden people are more
disappointed in us. And it seemed like all of a sudden,
we know they weren't patting us head and saying were nice.
Just like Mac. Yeah, they liked him. He's he was
exactly in the mark. So let's leave it at that. Okay,
fair enough. Now, I've often said, and I believe this
to be true. You know, two of the I don't
(23:19):
want to say the two biggest moments, but two of
the most seminal scenarios that played out in the modern
day that has allowed Utah and look by he's one
of the last two. So as I always said, during
that long streak, it was like almost four thy five
hundred days or wherever the cow was between b y
u ns said, look, the stuff is cyclical.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
During Lavelle's run, at some point Utah was going to
figure it out, you guys did, and during Urban and
Witch run it sometimes b Yu is going to come
back around and they have Connie's built a good program.
But when it when it comes to two scenarios, I
want I want to give your thoughts on Kyle saying
no to is Alma Modern saying.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yes yes to Utah. That's number one.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Okay, he had a chance to go take that BYU job,
and I've heard from several people that this was hard
for him. This was not a super easy decision, but
ends up staying in saw Lake. So that's moment number one.
Moment number two is you guys getting the pack twelve
invite and BYU in a reactionary move because it was
going independent to try to figure it out, which they have.
It was a long journey and Tom deserves a lot
(24:21):
of credit. Do not ship afloat. But as the ad
during that time, what do you make of what I
perceived to be the two just biggest kind of moments
and elements that transpired to allow Utah to kind of
be on this generational run.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Well, the first one when Kyle, you know, it was
a tense moment. You know, it's four o'clock at night.
Talked to him and I said, well, maybe I got
to start looking for another coach. And he called back
at nine said he's taken it.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
He's taking the BYU job, our job. Seven o'clock.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
I was really thinking, that's where he's going on us listen,
And I said to him, I think we can recruit
better players. Not that again ago, not that they're not
good players, but I think we had a bigger pool.
Let's say that we have a bigger pool and colony
that but the players got them. But I think that
was a really tough moment because he and Tom are
buddy sure, and you know, and they played together and
(25:11):
both great players and Byu. But you know, strange that
it is. Kyle's pretty strong Utah guy, you know, by
he's not his deal now. He has great history there
and everything, but you know, he wants to beat them
pretty bad. And the other moment when we got into
petrov yat was was tough.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
It was tough.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
You know, why do you say tough just because there
were so many new things involved? And tough because we
were thrilled but couldn't act too thrilled, you know what
I mean. We couldn't be pounding our chest. Our fans did,
but as a you know, an employee and whatever, you
(25:53):
were thrilled off the chart. I mean, this was a
thirty year twenty five year changed everything. Yeah, and you
know it was just hard to so you know, it
was it was good for them to go off on
their own, but you couldn't put a happy face on
it no matter how you did it. It was we were
just accepting. Our fans stuck it to him for years,
(26:16):
and you felt like.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
You kind of had to tamp down your own individual
excitement about how thrilled you were that.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
This was okay.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Absolutely yeah, yeah, not even close.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
That's interesting when it came to the decision making process
that led to the rivalry taking a break, Yeah, walk
us through that and what was what was that?
Speaker 2 (26:37):
What was that?
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Like? I can talk about that one because that one
wasn't as bad as the basketball and I may have
coped and put myself on the sword and all. But
the reality was, you know, and I'll try to do this.
The Big ten and the PAC twelve had had an
arrangement we thought was done that all twelve would play
one or ours and it would help the TV contract.
(26:58):
And I think some you know, it's ironic. The UCLA
and USC were the ones that stopped it, and Jim Delaney,
the commissioner of the Big twelve, was like, hey, wait
a minute, we hold all the cards and this is
so much better for you could expand their break. But
it was a good thing like that. But the Michigan
guy and talked and he said, you know, this was
before we found out what's going to work. He says,
let's get a gang going. I said, you're gonna play
(27:20):
at our place, you know. I mean, I know we're
in the PAC twelve, but you're Michigan, which discounts the
whole thing. When fans think you need one hundred thousand
step stadium to play somebody crap, you know. But so
I went to Kyle and I said, hey, we gotta
this game, and he kind of looked at me like,
don't you think our schedule with nine packed twelve games
(27:40):
and Michigan in Utah may be too hard.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, I guess so.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
And so you know, I went to different people in
the community here, you know, part of the Olduce Church
and in our campus and whatever, and they said, well,
you're thinking they're too good, so that should be a
compliment to them. I was delusional and our fans. I
got in trouble for saying this one publicly with the media,
but I said that our fans are excited that Michigan's
(28:09):
coming here and we take a break. Fine, But I
used to do a media round table. Listen, I talk
about this all the time. We did the spring and
we didn't announce that we weren't playing BYU for a while,
and you know, we're just there and I said, wow,
football scheduled this and that we're gonna play Michigan and
not the way I went.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
WHOA. Everybody left the room.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
They're doing all this stuff, and I'm saying, oh, that
wasn't Oh, by the way, yeah you know that was.
But you know, for us, it made sense, and you know,
I'm glad for my own sanity. We worked through it all,
we looked at it. Our fans did enjoy the game.
I always felt that if you're you're looking at Michigan
(28:48):
playing Utah in Rice Ecle Stadium and your recruit, that's
not bad. Yeah, you mean Michigan and Utah are kind
of on the same category.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
And so we went. I think it helped us, you know,
the end. And then a couple of years later if
they left, you know, they didn't play each other one
year because of Florida or Baylor or somebody. And I thought,
you know, and Tom knew that that could come time
to time, because you know, we had to play when
they wanted to play. In the first three games, we
(29:18):
couldn't play that game where oh we don't have we
can't fit you in.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
You're talking about Michigan.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
No, I'm talking about by youth that they you know,
BYU you know, had the game. So we couldn't deny.
I'll try to get there. We couldn't deny playing b YU.
But this was a straight up like, hey guys, yes,
a decision. It's a business decision, and God bless everybody,
but how could you turn that down?
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (29:42):
No, I understood the reason, and certainly as someone that
understands the dynamic of the sport, felt it felt significant
when Michigan was here. It felt significant when you were
at the Big House. That felt significant to me.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Yeah, it did. And that's was our deal, and it
was all part of building a national brand. We didn't
want to become a regional and we were and that's
what our first goal in mind was. But then let's
become a national brand.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Yeah, one more question here, then we'll catch a quick
break and we'll get it to a couple of different things.
On the other side, you referenced how badly Kyle wants
to beat Yu, right, and it's always and look, I
know some alums that played for Kyle and have him
on the show, and I'm friendly with him off air.
So I've been told stories about how this week is
(30:26):
for the players and how Kyle coaches his team up
for this week, and it's interesting. For a number of years,
Bronco Menenhall took the stance of like, no, this really
is just another game. These are faceless, nameless people. We
are just going to play a football game. Whereas Kyle
on the other side, we don't lose to these guys.
We don't lose to these guys. So what can you
(30:48):
share about the way Kyle Winningham approaches this week.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
He's honest, you know, he does all the coach speak
to you know, is one game at a time, all that,
But somehow he's been he's got blood from nineteen eighty
to this game here, and he knows what it's like
after the game. Yeah, you know, you win, you lose,
and you know it's a whole different deal. And then
(31:13):
you go on and it's like with SHOWD in college
football now with you know, Penn State playing really well
and boom, you go on, it's awful. And then you
look at us this year and we lose a game,
we think the world's coming to an and he wins.
So you can't let one game ruin your season. But Kyle,
he's different this week. You know, don't tell him I
said that. Is he listening on the radio.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
I don't think coach Witt listens on on the regular,
But maybe we'll set.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Him to have said that, because I'm pretty sure he doesn't. Yeah,
you know that wasn't I guess?
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Yeah, speaking of what he'll join us on Wednesday, Oh great, yeah,
excited for that. All right, we will catch a break
doctor Chris Hill live in studio. Of course, we're talking
BYU Utah football and some fun memories. We're getting ready
for the game on Saturday, Doctor Allen Studio today courtesy
of our friends at IFA Country Stores with IFA Step
four Fall and Winter Long Food. You'll get stronger roots
now in an early green up next spring. It's the
(32:01):
ultimate line owner power move more at your local IFA
or unline at IFA dot co op more. Doctor Hill
coming up next right here out of ESPN seven hundred,
Doctor Chris Hill live in studio for another segment. It is,
of course a big week is BYU and Utah. We're
only the fourth time in one hundred and twenty three
(32:22):
games now now one hundred and three games, excuse me,
only the fourth time these two teams are nationally ranked.
It's only happened three other times. Utah is two and
one of those games, Utah is a three point five
point favorite down in provo to beat BYU.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Let's talk about the team this year.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
You know, yeah, yeah, it's funny what you said, only
time they've been ranked. This is this is me a
little bit. They're playing the six game of a year.
It's easier to stay ranked by the sixth game. The yeah,
last game.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
This is a little bit about that it's a good point,
you know.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
So, I mean people kind of and they worry about
it not being the last game of the year. But
if I'm running the TV station, I don't want to
go against all those rivals. I got you to YU,
which I know it is going to be a good
game on the sixth game of the year. But anyway,
it's a really good point.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
In fact, since you brought that up, Fox Big newon
Kickoff will be back in Utah. Yeah, Urban will be
back in Utah. He's really good at TV.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Yes he is. He's rolled me out when I saw him. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Yeah, So you know, obviously that's an intimate, private relationship,
but I'm sure our listeners would love to know how
he's doing.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Since you guys keep in touch.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
He's well, he always used to call me boss, So
you know, all of a sudden, we Liz, Abel and
I went to the day before and yeah, Tech was
in town. Yeah, when they were in town and he
was there, and he came in and he was all excited,
and we went down. Kathy and I and Liz went
and met him for dinner. He and Shelley and we
just reminiscently. It was really nice. It was really nice,
and you know, it was a magical time for him.
(33:46):
It set his career going, and it was a great
thing for us. So it was we were just talking
off air.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
It changed the landscape of really everything as it pertains
to not just Utah BYU Dynamic, but Utah football, Urban
Meyer med Utah football.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Really cool. Yeah, it made it cool.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
Yeah, and both coaches bookend them, Ronnie and Kyle Boom.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Yep did that.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
You know, this year's team, and you know I've watched
them play, you know, didn't go to the sant Luci
Bisboll game, you know, And but boy, they're good on
the line. I mean they really are. Yeah maybe I'm
biased because my brother was an offensive lineman, but boy,
they're really good there, especially on the offensive line. I'm
(34:29):
still wondering about the rushes and Russian stuff, but you know,
they and the defense, you know, except for that one game,
they seem fine. You know, they got young guys there,
and you always wonder about one mistake, you know, all
of a sudden you miscovered young kid and Boom. But
on the defensive side, they're fine. And you know, I
(34:50):
don't know if we have I sound like I'm an
announcer now. You know, so coaches used to tell me
I knew nothing about football, and I said, wait a mine,
I've been here for thirty one years in bunch, twelve.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Games a year, every single freaking play. Yeah, okay, so
I might know something.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
But you know, offensively, the guy's got to run. People
get kind of squirrely about that, but he's you know,
Nolan Ryan runs flows his fastball. He doesn't throw a
knuckleball when it matters. And you're fans by don't know
who Nolan Ryan.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Is my age right, Some of our younger listeners may not.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
But I can google. Okay, okay, yeah Google YouTube exists.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Yeah, but you know, so you know it's it's he's
got to go to a strength. But he boy, well
he did a play the other day, got out of
trouble and it's like wow, yea, he knows. You know,
the scramble play is a big play. That's a big
play now and just like his basketball for the kick
out three, but you know, it's a big play.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
So he's going to be fine. Uh.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
You know, they'll classic stretch the field, but if you're
not good at stretching the field, don't worry about it.
When a game you can win exactly, you know, maybe
you throw along to see if you get a completion
or p I. I mean that's what Arizona State did that.
They just took their great thrower, a great receiver, and
so just run down the side and we'll throw it
up in the air and maybe you can make an
(36:09):
athletic play.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
If not, maybe you can get a pie. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
And so you know, offensively when all the utes are
interested in uh, but you know our line and stuff.
And I were a little bit about the defense. But
maybe that's because I'm always paranoid. Before the b AU game, now,
right before kickoff, I always said to Cathy, I'd rather be.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Us than them. Okay, That's how I entered the game.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
And for some reason, it just once a game started, man,
I was just watched every player. I wasn't And if
somebody came in and say hello, like a conference commissioner,
I'd be like, what do I do? I'm supposed to
be excited about a bull guy come in And Commissioner
Liz used to tell them, don't go in seecrets during
the game. He'll come up at halftime. But I used
(36:53):
to sit in my little and watch every single play.
And I was in the game, you know, so during
the game, it was just fabulous.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
It's very compelling television college football rivalries.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
I mean, it's a great TV show.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
And you know, with this job, I usually go to
a lot of these games, so I'm there live, and
I was there last year watching the end. But it's
it's it's it's there's something about college football rivalry. Rivalries
that are just gripping. They just bring you in. Do
you think Utah BYU is properly respected outside of our state?
Like the landscape of college football, do you think most
(37:27):
people really understand how big this game actually is.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
They don't understand the unique element of the state, Okay,
but the reality is they're starting to understand. You know,
we're not as big city as you know places, but
when you're in the stands there, I don't think it's
any different than Ohio State Michigan, you know, I really don't.
It's passion as can be, and almost sometimes passionate for
(37:50):
the wrong reasons. But you know, I mean, I think
it's as big now because we're both been in national
spotlight for a while, and you know, I'm not going
to deny the fact that Ohio State Michigan is going
to be a bigger TV game.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Of course. Yeah, you know. The numbers are the numbers.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
Yeah, I'll bet that this week it'll be big TV numbers.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
I said this earlier and I will repeat the moniker
because I believe it to be true. There's a chance
this is the most watched game in the history this round.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
I think you could be right with Fox here with a.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Big news with a prime time kick eight o'clock back east,
so the East Coasters will stay up, Yes, the will,
and hopefully the people that live on the East Coast
and analyzed football decides to watch the game instead of
go to sleep.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
It's a pet peeve of.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Mine when they're clearly not watching the games and so
they clearly can't analyze it. But this is a primetime
kick on a nationally televised plot.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
This might be the most watched game in the history
of BYUU talk.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
You know. And what people don't get is is I
shouldn't say everybody may understand that you can do any
shot nets stands. It's as energetic as any place, and
I think the people that come in, like from Fox
and stuff, they're the guys that they have a little experience,
They're like, wow, yeah, you know, I knew it was big,
(39:01):
but whoa you know?
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Yeah, so, uh, it's fun. This should be great.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
Well, and with Urban on their dais, he can really
offer a perspective and give them an understanding of just
what this is. I know he's only here for a
few years, but as you said last segment, he got
it quick.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
He understood this as quick.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
Yeah he did, he did, And it's just great that
they're going to How about that two times? Yea, in
the first six games of the year, we got big
Fox coming. Yeah, my gosh, who would have thought that?
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Let me ask you about that from an administrator's perspective,
when you get the announcement that Fox is coming or
ESPN is coming. Unfortunately, oftentimes when the biggest platforms have
been here, the team hasn't played all that well. And
that includes the Tech game side note, Tech is really good.
I don't think that loss is going to.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Age that that's.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
A really good football team. But what does this do
to the magnitude of the week. How does it change
things up there? When you find out this big platform
will be here.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Everybody's pumped, but everybody's got twice as many things to do.
That's what I figured.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Running around and you're doing this and you're doing that,
and you know it's big and you've got high energy,
but you know your job doubled, you know. But what
I loved about the people I worked with, they didn't
care about doubling any work.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
You know.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
They double the whole work and get there at eight
o'clock on Monday morning and be fired up. So it
just was what a time I had with those people.
That was really fun. But it's just crazy and you
do things that you know and it but it's so
cool to have for everybody in our department, and but
(40:35):
if you're talking about in our building and that type
of thing, it was great, you know, And but it
was so much work for some people. You know, I
probably had the least increase of work, you know, everybody.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
I've always found this dynamic interesting as well, because we
referenced last segment. You know, you grew up back East
Transplant here. Obviously you've been here for a long long
time now, and there was a time where I feel
like both Utah and BYU, the majority of the roster
was at least kind of in this region, but for
a number of that has changed. So you look up
and down the roster, it's Florida, it's Texas, it's everywhere
(41:13):
for all teams.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Do you think the out of staters really fully understand?
Like Devin grew up in Arizona, like there's not a
bone in his body that was raised to hate BYU.
But you think the kids and coaches that come in
from out of state fully understand just how intenseness can be.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
Ten years ago, Yes, because they come in as a freshmen,
they learned from the guy above them. The learned now
now I'm not so sure they maybe you know, you
come in as a portal kid, and I don't know
how you cannot. That's a lot to learn in six months. Yes,
that the passions involved, and so you know it's I
(41:51):
can't speak for the players now, but I know the
players when I was there, they understood, they got it. Yeah,
and they got it because they lived with guys for
two three years. Local kids would let him know what
the deal was, and so I can't speak to now.
I suspect it may not be as much.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Yeah, I've always wondered because we make it into such
a thing around here, because if you do have experience
with this football game, you understand how passionate can get.
I kind of alluded to this last segment, and we'll
do a couple of minutes on this before I set
you loose. I've never heard Kyle say that he doesn't
like Bronco. I've never heard Bronco say that he doesn't
like Kyle. I just don't think they like each other.
(42:31):
And so I feel like there was some friction between
those two, and I feel like that led to a
stretch in the rivalry that felt a little different and heated,
and when the nasty things kind of started happening, it
felt like fan base is embodying the relationship those two had. Obviously,
Kyle loves Colada and Colonia loves Kyle. And when Coloone
(42:52):
was a defensive coordinator up here, I did a weekly
coaches show with him, so I got to know him.
I consider him a friend, and I cheer for him.
I want good things to up in to Kilate. Does
it feel like the relationship between those two has eased
this tension just a little bit or is it just
red and blue period?
Speaker 2 (43:08):
End of story.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
I think it's eased it. I think it's eased it.
It's eased it from maybe the b YU administration and
those type of people and probably has with Utah. Would
your fans you never know, you know, and you know,
we we used to tease about it. It was a
night game would be a more trouble because tailgating lasted
longer and misbehavior would happen. And that was just us.
(43:32):
But you know, yeah, it's it's just yeah, just this
unbelievable situation.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
You know, your experience is going down there. Yeah, what
what have those been like when you were at the
U and you guys had to make the drive down there?
Speaker 2 (43:49):
What what can you share there?
Speaker 3 (43:51):
Well, trepidation when you're first when early on in my career,
so it was so different later, so early on you're
going therenn Okay, well you know, let's just give it
a shot and do the best we can. And you know,
and then say, well there are traffic's bad too, in
their parking slopsy too. It's just not us, you know,
And we'd come back in the radio and you know,
(44:11):
listen to our guys or Lavell or whatever, but you know,
it was you just were cautious, but you were not optimistic.
I was optimistic when the game started, but also I
was delusional. But once we started winning down there, man,
it was great. We drive home and have a few
lemonades on the way home and just be rooting like
(44:34):
crazy and listen to the caller into Lavell and oh
we were hooting in Holerance, So let's be really, that's
when you get to go into the car with your
family or people like that or who you sat with,
and you know, it was really fun because you could
kind of let loose.
Speaker 1 (44:48):
Then would you hear feedback from alumni boosters like how
much does this game mean to alumni and people that
went to the University of Utah who you had to
talk to you often because that's part of the job as.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
An athletic director. Yeah, I mean, you know, yeah, it was.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
It was big, I would say, boosters, even a guy
that's watching it on TV that can't afford to have
tickets or whatever. It's big and it's kind of bragging rights.
But like I said, it's hard to have bragging rights
now because you never you may say I were grant
oops next year oops, you know. So I think it's
at a healthy place now. But when I went down
(45:27):
to used to go down to b y U. I
had a good time doing it.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
You know. You know I can't do that now.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
Because I don't have a The legislature passed a rule
that I can't go to Utah count except for my
grandkids a soccer game.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Oh that's all that's on the books. That stays on
the bits. I got pasted.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
Very nice. I think there's my maybe an amendment that
I can't either. But all right, okay, last thing, how
do you feel about the game? You think you think
they're going to get it done? I mean, I know
you're optimistic this. Yeah, I'm optimistic. I like our team,
you know, and no despair jing to BYU, So please
put that on the record for sure. Yeah, but I
like our team and I like Coyle on this situation.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
Okay, Well, great to see you.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
Always good to say thank you for joining us doctor
Chris Sill live in studio for an entire hour. Always
great insight as by U Utah Saturday nights, six o'clock
in Provo, Utah is a slight three point five point favorite.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
All our pregame coverage will begin at.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
Uh let's see two o'clock with Porter and Trevor Riley
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