December 9, 2025 • 26 mins
Catch “The Drive with Spence Checketts” from 2 pm to 6 pm weekdays on ESPN 700 & 92.1 FM. Produced by Porter Larsen. The latest on the Utah Jazz, Real Salt Lake, Utes, BYU + more sports storylines.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Oh, okay, take the money and run. I see what
you're doing in there, young man. All right, John Kimball
is gonna roll by the latest with Lionel Messi to
saw Lake. RSL made a couple of coaching moves today.
Thomisson a lavae the verb Andy Larson the verb is
no longer on staff.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Yeah, who obviously disappointing.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Love homoson lave as an urself fan, but you know
it depends where they hire.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Yeah, yeah, So some interesting news from RSLF. Of course,
that is the dulcet tones of Andy Larson from the
Salt Lake Tribune. You have found yourself in the college
football ecosystem as of late. I noticed on social it's
a dangerous group of folk to get involved with, especially
the level you've been involved.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
What's this been like for you?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Look, I mean, I think it's fair to say called
football fans are passionate. I think it's fair to say
that they are sometimes one sidedly passionate in the fans
that they support. And in particular last week, you know,
hundreds of bau found were mad at me for criticizing
Dave portnoy Uh for his provo utah bit, which is
a bit, you know, and that's always pointing out right,
(01:07):
like you know, so anyway, but uh, you know, I
I that's that's the name of the game. We we
write to sports fans, We give takes. Sometimes people don't agree,
we we move on.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
It is pretty wild that the BYU community has embraced
somebody with the CD moral compass like Dave Portnoy.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Well, you know, they also brought Conor McGregor in last
year and celebrated him as well. Yeah look it's uh yeah,
it's you know, I think that's kind of what it
points out to me is that for a lot of
by fans and and I think a lot of college
sports fans, and heck, I even I would say this
to Jazz fans as well, the team is the number
one thing you can put everything else aside. If the
(01:52):
team aspect is positive, and if someone is saying nice
things about your team, uh, then they must be right.
And if they are saying wrong things but bad things
about their team, they must be wrong, you know, especially
and you know, credit to BAYU, they've had a great season,
et cetera, et cetera. But like, uh, yeah, you know,
it's that doesn't necessarily diminish everything else that's happening in
the world.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
Yeah, Like it has.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Been one of the storylines where suddenly, like BYU fans
love Dave Porter. I'm like, do you know how to
do a Google search? Like, it's not going to take
you a lot of time to know that that's not
the guy for you. Look, I'm not a hater when
it comes to anybody carving out their real estate in
our industry. It's hard to do. I just am not
a fan of the way Barstool, in my opinion, is
capitalized on like the worst portion of what sports fans
(02:36):
seem to represent. I mean, they seem to have been
able to, essentially, you know, move into spaces that I
think are really CD in the name of one thing,
and that is clicks and attention, and I guess that's
the name of the game now.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Look, I mean I think they approach sports in a
very different way than I do, which is I really
like it as like an intellectual subject is trying to
learn about the game, is trying to you know, explore
and analyze what's going on and tell fans, you know,
about kind of what coaches and players are thinking. And
I think a lot of times, Barstool is about the
the ID. It's about the kind of the grosser aspects
(03:10):
of this, and that's makes it hard for hard for
me to really get along with.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
Dude. They have this new show on Fox Sports now.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Uh, And you know, throughout the course of my prep routine,
I have a lot of things recorded on my DVR,
so I can kind of understand what the daily topics are,
how people are approaching this or that, and you know,
I record a few things that Fox has, so accidentally,
my DVR is set up to get the final five
minutes of the show prior to and I stumbled on
(03:39):
their show and they were debating how many times you're
supposed to wipe after you go number two on a
sports show on Fox. Okay, so if that's for you,
then go ahead and consume. But I don't get it
at all, and I just never will. Yeah, you know,
I guess it's worked for him. I guess there are
a number of people who want that. I it's not.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
What I do you have an answer to that question?
Just kidding.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
We will not be debating that on the show today,
all right. Andy is known as the jazz guy for
the Salt Lake Tribune. But again as if lady's been
doing a lot of college football work, which has been fun,
and we were all kind of caught off guard today
by the report from Ross Dellinger. If you've been waiting
for private equity to arrive in college athletics, well wait
(04:23):
no more. The University of Utah is on the cusp
of striking the industry's first partnership with an equity firm
and a marriage that features a nine figure capital and
fusion and the creation and shared ownership of a for
profit entity to operate athletics, business and financial elements outside
of the traditional university framework. You're working on a piece
for the trip just macro viewpoint, what have you been
(04:44):
able to kind of ascertain so far?
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Look, I mean, the reason this happened is really clear
that the University of Utah athletic program, like a lot
of athletic programs around the country, was in a significant
amount of debt and look to be moving in a
significant amount of debt moving forward, and kind of the
only way that you can get out of that is
either spend less on football, frankly, and spend less on
(05:08):
players and talent throughout your various squads.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Or to get money somehow.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
And you know, I think you know a lot of
teams have kind of gone with some different loan structures,
teams of Virginia TECHASA today, the raising the student fees
for the athletic programs to to kind of get money
that way.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
You know.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
I obviously there are sec programs, the Big ten programs
and better situations that just because those conferences give more
TV payouts. And then you look at UTAH and they
didn't want to go through any of the kind of
those other options, and so private equity was the model
that allowed them to sell part of their full you know,
(05:53):
as part of their entity, part of what they have
in college athletics to outro capital. Now, you know, we've
seen this play out. We've seen professional teams do this
as well, and and you know, so far with limited
kind of consequences for that, right, But that's what this
is about, is kind of trading you know, a bit
(06:14):
of who you are for a big upfront capital investment
and a kind of long term partnership that should continue
to provide that capital moving forward. It's it is fascinating, right,
and it's fascinating that UTAH is leading out in this
with the way that they are.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yeah, and to be first to something is not nothing,
all right, So there's an opportunity and a potential here
for this to really work out. We've been kind of
debating both sides of the equation here because you hear
a lot of panic from fans. You see a lot
of panic from fans. One thing that is not debatable
is private equity firms are in business to do one thing,
and that's to make money, and they're expecting this partnership
(06:52):
to breed an ice return on their investment in what
is being reported five to seven years where they view
their exit. So you know, that is really the bottom
line that we cannot run from. The good Andy seems
to be the economic investment that you can utilize to
add players, football, basketball, gymnastics, upgrade equipment, upgrade facilities. The
(07:12):
consumer experience will look different and hopefully be better for
ute fans. But that also probably means it comes with
a healthy premium and you're gonna be asked to pay
more for season tickets, food and bed merchants such.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Yeah, and then that's something that we're going to be
tracking at the Tribune. Is okay, this is now day
zero of this new setup. You know, what is a
hot dog cost? What is a must ticket cost? What
does you know all the various What does a sweatshirt cost?
An officially licensed seatshirt costs? And you kind of go
down the list and see how that changes in the
next five or seven years and is that above inflation?
And you know, so we're we're going to be watching that.
(07:45):
I think the fair expectation is yes, you know, when
you when you look at how private capital has impacted
other sports properties around the world, including the ones you
know that that these guys have a part in, but
to what extent? And you know, and ultimately the university
does have majority say as well, So how much can
(08:07):
they fight against the expectations of OTRO is going to
be a really interesting part of how this plays out.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
To Yeah, that needs to be underscored because oftentimes, when
private equity decides to get involved in sports or other
business endeavors, they purchase a majority and they say, we
own fifty one percent of this now. But when it
comes to the way the seats will be handed out
on this seven person board, you're gonna have Mark Harlan
is the chair. You're gonna have three other spots on
(08:34):
the board that will go to Utah people. I wonder
if Taylor Randall's one of those. I don't know. And
then OTRO gets two seats, and then there's one seat
to this seventh member. And from everything I can tell,
and I've also been on the phone all day about this,
it sounds like that is going to be a savvy
business person that's also a Utah athletic supporter. The names
are the names. It's Echoes, it's Huntspin, it's Garf or whatever.
(08:56):
So there's that, and I think that is a positive
portion of this. Where Outro did not buy controlling stake,
they do not have the majority members on this board.
And therefore, if Mark or Taylor, and this does come
down to how much do you trust Mark Carlin how
much do you trust Taylor Randall? They will have final
say when it comes to decision making. However, when a
(09:17):
private equity group gives you five hundred million dollars, they're
gonna have some very strong opinions about how you need
to operate.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Yeah, and you know, I also interested to see who
they choose as president of this organization and kind of
what people they established throughout it, right, and we'll learn
a lot about what their plans are from what their
backgrounds are, right. I think that's that's a key part
of it, right, Like you can have a board structure
that's set to intervene and set to set the overarching
(09:42):
principles of this, but the actual day to day management
of this really really matters for the fan experience for
how good these teams are, you know, kind of all
of the parts of being a University of Utah sports fan.
I mean, it is now in a significant way divorced
from the university because you do have this significant amount
of capital coming in.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
So what what will change and how much does it change?
I mean, I.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Think at today's press conference and when asked by the
Board of Trustees, they said the right things about keeping
costs down and caring about kind of the student experience first.
And and yet we know what this means, right, Like,
there's because there's no way that OUTRO came in and said, hey,
we want everything to stay the same, because right now,
(10:27):
University of Utah Sports is the money losing business.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
So when it comes to what you've learned about OTRO
so far, kind of walk us through that, because you know,
another piece of this is our reference. It does come
down to what sort of faith and trust you have
in Taylor Randall, who's a very smart, business savvy university president,
and Mark Carlin, who will be heavily involved. The other
thing is what sort of operators are OTRO, What sort
(10:52):
of operators are there? Are there memberships are are their team?
Essentially what sort of business do they like to run?
The only one I know of is Alex Shiner, who
was with the cal or excuse me, he was with
the Cowboys and the Browns, but he also spearheaded a project.
There was a Jerry Jones kind of spin off called
(11:13):
Legends Hospitality when my dad was the CEO.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
So they know each other.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
I'm gonna try to get my dad on to kind
of give his take because I don't know him the
way he does. So I don't know much about their
group outside of Alec whose side note went to the
same high school as Kobe Bryant.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
Nobody gives a rip.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
But what have you been able to learn about oat
show and what sort of information do you have about
that right now?
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Yeah, I'll say, first of all, like still doing a
lot of investigation right Like, I'm not fully ready to
put the final word on Oatro. But yeah, you mentioned
some of the people who are involved in Alec in
particular have been looking into him today. I think you
summed up well. And then just kind of looking at
their portfolio, right, like being involved with the Alpine F
one team, which is, you know, one of the F
(11:57):
one teams, one of the eleven teams, but certainly not
at the top of the you know, constructor table. Necessarily
Flex Work, which is this company that basically hosts sports
camps for athletes, both collegion and pro ones. And then
Two Circles, which is this basically sports data analytics company
that works to either you know, works with like Wimbledon,
(12:19):
works with the Cricket League to basically understand their fans
and market to them better. Right, So that's actually a
pretty diverse setup of investments that they have in their portfolio. Obviously,
the University of Utah now joins that is kind of
the most unique of those investments. It is a little
(12:43):
bit surprising and a little bit uh discouraging how little
Utah connection we've seen so far.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
You know, like.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
For whatever, maybe this is just my bias, but I
believe in kind of people who are from Utah as
kind of supporting Utah and and looking for the long
term interests of the University of Utah more than I
do necessarily a group of New York based Yeah, private
equity folks. So that's that's I think part of this story.
And I think what we will be discussing in you know,
(13:14):
it's seven to eight years when this exit happens is
did they have the best interest of the University of
Utah actually at heart or do they you know, do
they see Utah as frankly a flyover state that they
can extract the money out of, right.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
And it's the second part of that. Yeah, it just is.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
So, you know, and and in that case, you know,
to what extent do people here get hurt as a result.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
No, it's really really fair.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
And I've really done my best today to try to
outline a bunch of different avenues as far as how
this could go. Because not all private equity is created equal,
and not all private equity is bad. There are plenty
of examples of businesses that have blossomed in consumers that
have benefited because of cash infusions made by PE firms.
I just don't know enough about the operators here My
(13:57):
guess is, you know, uh, when it comes to Alex Shiner,
he's probably not going to be awake in his midtown Manhattan, beautiful,
you know condo thinking about what the must experience looks
and sounds like.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
I don't think that's anything he gives a rip about.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
It's also why it is important that the University of
Utah maintains controlling equity and also the majority of the
seats on the board. But make no mistake, these guys
are expecting in five to seven years to exit with
at least eight percent profit and hopefully more than that.
So while the consumer experience will probably be improved because
of the cash, it also will probably be something that
(14:31):
you're asked to pay more for. The other portion of
this andy is it appears that and I don't know
what this looks like, but certain people in our community
have been given opportunities to invest here, right, And so
you know, for just kind of a basic explanation, you
can write a check for I don't know, a million bucks,
and you receive some equity, you receive some shares or whatever,
(14:52):
and then on the backside, when the exit happens, you
could actually make some money, which is different than what
it typically has been. If just you're a by you
don't or if you're Cookie Bro or Ryan Smith, then
you just ride a check. You're just doing it to
donate to the institution. You're not doing it to make
money on the back end. So that's an interesting piece
of this.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Yeah, that fundamentally changes what you expect from boosters, right
and who you expect to be involved and what their
incentives are. So you know, yeah, right now, boosters are
there for the fun of it, right. They want to
see their team win more games than they were if
it would if they were not involved. They want to
be out on the field or have better tickets, or
have sweet access or what have you. Right Like, they
(15:31):
want to be part of the cool kids club. And
now instead of that, or I guess in addition to that,
because it is an addition to that, they will also
be expecting to make a return and or hoping to
make a return, and that will necessarily mean getting more
money from somewhere. I think there are positive outcomes where
(15:54):
that could happen, right Like, if Utah is able to
make it into the Big ten and has that sort
of new level of income, then great, This all kind
of works out for everybody. What I think also will
probably happen is a reduction in some expenditures that are
not supported by the numbers, and frankly that may be
(16:16):
the Olympic sports, et cetera, and then some increases in
revenue from regular fans like our listeners. And I think
that's what's scary for me, as someone who's always kind
of advocated for what regular fans are, you know, because
I grew up one here in this market, Like I
think the real potential of again the price of the
(16:40):
hot dog, the price of the must ticket, the price
of what it cost to go to a basketball game,
so on, in gymnastics whatever, so on and so forth,
that being monetized and new and for private equity bros interesting,
but for regular folks really kind of a bummer kind
of ways.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Really, it scares me.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
And you know, I think we've seen some of that
with a Jazz, with that infusion of private capital, and
I think it's certainly at risk here.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
That's the biggest question. You just hit it on the head.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
That's the biggest question, because I think there are plenty
of people in our community that have some disposable income
that would love the opportuntunity to be involved here and
invest in the product and potentially see a nice, healthy
return down the line. The question, as you just outline,
is that nobody knows the answer to is in a
(17:29):
month or in three weeks when you get an alert
that you have an email in your inbox from the
University of Uta Athletic Department and it says, Hey, we
love having you part of the family. Your season tickets
are now thirty percent more expensive. Hey, thanks for your support.
Your tailgate spot there was I don't know ten grand
last year, is forty this year. What do those people
say to the ask that is probably inevitably coming.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
That to me is probably the most intriguing piece of this.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
And look that ask is coming in all one hundred
and twenty college football teams right like. Just the prices
are going up everyone where, because if you're not doing
a deal like this, you're probably trying to You're trying
to manage your debt yourself, and that means going directly
to your fans to try to do that. To be clear,
the reason that the youths have to do this right
now is because they don't have enough rich people to
(18:14):
willing to lose money on the Utes anymore, Right, So
now all of a sudden the expectations change. I mean,
I also do worry about the investment side of it,
if you know it two three years down the road
that the you know, maybe you have another five and
seven season or just a let's call the seven five season.
Even then the the investors get skittish, right, and all
(18:37):
of a sudden, the cost expenditure on players goes down
to match. I mean, there have been some really negative
outcomes and private equity stuff that go beyond raising ticket
prices for season ticke holders, that go to fundamentally breaking
the financial structure of the of the entity itself. Yeah,
And I think that downside is the downside fans should
(19:01):
be you know, kind of most most concerned about.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
And I don't know what the.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Odds of that happening are, right, Like, I think would
be reasonable to say somewhere between five and fifty percent, right,
But if that does happen, that's when we're talking about, Okay,
the Utes going into like administration like an English Premier
League team or like you know, like where just kind
of bad stuff happens where all of a sudden they're
out of the you know athletic game in the way
(19:27):
that they are now, and that's that to me is
what you know.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
I don't want to be.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Super controversially or a hot takey, you know, that's not
what I'm trying to do here. But look, when private
equity gets involved in stuff, the Tribune barely survived, right
like when the private equity got involved.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Just like stuff does break.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Changes are inevitable and there is a potential downside here.
And the risk in my opinion, is being taken by
the Utah portion of this, Like when when when you
understand exactly how these private equity firms work, the risk
is not, in my opinion, being taken on by OTRO Capital.
I would guess they've done their calculation. Live TV rights
(20:11):
in college football have been going up for twenty five years.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
It's not stopping anytime soon.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
The Big twelve just signed a good not great deal,
but it was the only deal left in the marketplace.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
Ask our friends in the Pac twelve.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
So I'm sure Otro has looked at the trends with
live TV rights seen that they're going up. The exit
strategy is five to seven years. That coincides with the
next Big twelve TV deal. To your point, if Utah
gets the big big ten invite, this is game over.
OTRO is cashed in, like there's nothing to worry about
at all. But if there is risk in this, it
does feel like it is on the Utah athletics side
(20:43):
bringing in private equity money.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
Because of the variables you just talked about.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
I mean, I think it's on both sides, right Like,
But the problem is that the risk for the you
is it impacts everyone's life more than an impacts like
if OTRO loses money on this deal, which I do
think is possible, right Like, if the University of Utah
Athletic department continues to lose money overall over the course
of the next eight years, then OTRO loses money on this.
But OTRO has other investments that will probably keep it
(21:09):
afloat and make them do well. And you know, some
people involved, well you're you're talking about private equity people
maybe potentially losing some money. If the University of Utah
athletic program suffers as a result, though, then that has
huge implications for what we know about Utah sports for
the next decade decade plus, right Like, it's not just
(21:31):
you know, investors lose money. It's you know, what kind
of sports teams do we have here? Do we have baseball?
Do we have soft You know, like, do you know
do the utes? Are they competitive? Or are they and
also ran at the bottom of the Big twelve or
worse in another kind of re envisioned conference where they're
not part of at the at the big table anymore.
(21:53):
You know, like that kind of stuff I think is possible.
I don't think it's likely, but I think that you know, again,
just the history of these kind of interventions seeking to
lose debt in this way, it's a move that you
take on because you are a little bit desperate, because
you don't have other great answers to solve.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
This debt problem. Yeah, you can't run from that.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
That was one of my first thoughts because I was
told a few weeks ago there was going to be
a story that would become public that was gonna outline
that the University of Uta Athletic department was in thirty
to forty million dollars a debt. It doesn't put them
in a unique situation. Ohio State last year reported that
there were thirty seven million dollars in debt, and we
could continue to go down. The list in Ohio State
is freaking Ohio State. I mean, they're the best football
(22:35):
team in the country. They're in the Big ten. So
Utah is not alone in this, but it is a
sign that they were tread and water a little bit
and had to figure a way out.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
And the way that you have to get out is
you know, BYU has it's large and diverse, you know,
people who see it as part of their religious scheme
to some scheme is the wrong word, but religious set
up to someone, Yeah, yeah, you know, Texas Tech has
oil money. Uh you know, so you need you need people,
you know, frankly, it was reported that uh, Colorado was
(23:06):
interested in Saudi money right through, and so you need
someone who is frankly willing to lose money on it
if the business is going to stay operating in the
same way. Now, I think OTRO comes in and says,
we want the business to operate in a different way,
and hopefully it operates in a better, more profitable way, right,
and and maybe they make the changes to make that happen.
And if it's so, then then great, you know, And
(23:28):
and then maybe this does kind of rise all tides
and and and things can go, well, I I don't
want to dispute that, but yeah, you know, like in
the end, this is not just a Utah problem. And
I think one of the things you've seen consistently from
national commentators today is this recognition that Utah is not
going to be alone in doing no, not at all.
This is going to be you know, dozens of teams
(23:48):
going to be in this boat because this is the
logical way of dealing with year after year after your
debt in a with investors who are kind of used
to that setup in terms in chasing kind of long
term games.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
All right, before I say you lose, because you referenced
you know, Ryan Smith, his private equity partners, they take
over for the Millers. And one thing that we just
cannot run from is that your consumer experience as a
Utah fan is going to change.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
It is going to look different.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
And initially Ryan and his partners took over and they said, yeah,
we're probably not going to change much, and then they
just went ahead and you know, changed everything. So what
is different about the consumer experience at the Delta Center?
It is called the Delta Center. What's different about the
consumer experience? And look, the team is in year four
of this whatever they're doing that is unseerious about competing.
(24:36):
So while we're about to see the Utah fan experience change,
how has the Jazz fan experience changed?
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (24:41):
I mean I would say there are a lot of
things about the Delta Center that are better, right, But
I would say the things that I think about are
increased suites and increased ticket revenue. Ryan's partnered with sea
Geek and charging a good number of fees through see
geek in order to kind of recoup some of the
the per game ticket costs. So, you know, even if
(25:03):
the Jazz ticket is two dollars without fees as it
was on Monday or what was that Sunday, now it's
eight dollars, you know, so you've got a three hundred
percent fee there. I would also say kind of a
focus on keeping you know, the the again, the high
(25:25):
investing fans happy.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Right.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
So I think kind of you've seen more marketing emails,
You've seen more kind of understanding from a data point
of view of what's going on.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
With the fan base.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
I think, you know, it's it's hard to say too
because obviously the Jazz are going through their own weird
and different issues that are mostly Encore related, right like
the basketball team. Even if the Millers continue to own
the Jazz, we're going to need to go through a
rebuild it. But it does feel as if there has
been more distance between the jazz and the community in
(26:01):
this era than there was the last.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Yeah, all right, fair, Uh you know fair to say,
well said, uh, what are we going to see the
Andy Larson peace on this?
Speaker 2 (26:09):
My hope is to write it tonight and get it
online tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
That's, you know, kind of best case scenario that means
a lot of work for me tonight. I'll probably turn
it in at like three am, which means Aaron's got
to review it at like six am.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
But uh yeah, that'll be That'll be my night.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Do you ever intentionally turn into piece keeping in mind
of how miserable you're gonna make Aeron based off the timmy?
Speaker 3 (26:27):
I mean, sometimes I will schedule that email to go
out at like eight am, you know, the the Gmail
schedules end function. Yeah, if it doesn't matter, but this
one matters. So we're still going to do our best.
Sl Trip dot com and you the man, good to
see him.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
You do
Oh, okay, take the money and run. I see what
you're doing in there, young man. All right, John Kimball
is gonna roll by the latest with Lionel Messi to
saw Lake. RSL made a couple of coaching moves today.
Thomisson a lavae the verb Andy Larson the verb is
no longer on staff.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Yeah, who obviously disappointing.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Love homoson lave as an urself fan, but you know
it depends where they hire.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Yeah, yeah, So some interesting news from RSLF. Of course,
that is the dulcet tones of Andy Larson from the
Salt Lake Tribune. You have found yourself in the college
football ecosystem as of late. I noticed on social it's
a dangerous group of folk to get involved with, especially
the level you've been involved.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
What's this been like for you?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Look, I mean, I think it's fair to say called
football fans are passionate. I think it's fair to say
that they are sometimes one sidedly passionate in the fans
that they support. And in particular last week, you know,
hundreds of bau found were mad at me for criticizing
Dave portnoy Uh for his provo utah bit, which is
a bit, you know, and that's always pointing out right,
(01:07):
like you know, so anyway, but uh, you know, I
I that's that's the name of the game. We we
write to sports fans, We give takes. Sometimes people don't agree,
we we move on.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
It is pretty wild that the BYU community has embraced
somebody with the CD moral compass like Dave Portnoy.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Well, you know, they also brought Conor McGregor in last
year and celebrated him as well. Yeah look it's uh yeah,
it's you know, I think that's kind of what it
points out to me is that for a lot of
by fans and and I think a lot of college
sports fans, and heck, I even I would say this
to Jazz fans as well, the team is the number
one thing you can put everything else aside. If the
(01:52):
team aspect is positive, and if someone is saying nice
things about your team, uh, then they must be right.
And if they are saying wrong things but bad things
about their team, they must be wrong, you know, especially
and you know, credit to BAYU, they've had a great season,
et cetera, et cetera. But like, uh, yeah, you know,
it's that doesn't necessarily diminish everything else that's happening in
the world.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
Yeah, Like it has.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Been one of the storylines where suddenly, like BYU fans
love Dave Porter. I'm like, do you know how to
do a Google search? Like, it's not going to take
you a lot of time to know that that's not
the guy for you. Look, I'm not a hater when
it comes to anybody carving out their real estate in
our industry. It's hard to do. I just am not
a fan of the way Barstool, in my opinion, is
capitalized on like the worst portion of what sports fans
(02:36):
seem to represent. I mean, they seem to have been
able to, essentially, you know, move into spaces that I
think are really CD in the name of one thing,
and that is clicks and attention, and I guess that's
the name of the game now.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Look, I mean I think they approach sports in a
very different way than I do, which is I really
like it as like an intellectual subject is trying to
learn about the game, is trying to you know, explore
and analyze what's going on and tell fans, you know,
about kind of what coaches and players are thinking. And
I think a lot of times, Barstool is about the
the ID. It's about the kind of the grosser aspects
(03:10):
of this, and that's makes it hard for hard for
me to really get along with.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
Dude. They have this new show on Fox Sports now.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Uh, And you know, throughout the course of my prep routine,
I have a lot of things recorded on my DVR,
so I can kind of understand what the daily topics are,
how people are approaching this or that, and you know,
I record a few things that Fox has, so accidentally,
my DVR is set up to get the final five
minutes of the show prior to and I stumbled on
(03:39):
their show and they were debating how many times you're
supposed to wipe after you go number two on a
sports show on Fox. Okay, so if that's for you,
then go ahead and consume. But I don't get it
at all, and I just never will. Yeah, you know,
I guess it's worked for him. I guess there are
a number of people who want that. I it's not.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
What I do you have an answer to that question?
Just kidding.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
We will not be debating that on the show today,
all right. Andy is known as the jazz guy for
the Salt Lake Tribune. But again as if lady's been
doing a lot of college football work, which has been fun,
and we were all kind of caught off guard today
by the report from Ross Dellinger. If you've been waiting
for private equity to arrive in college athletics, well wait
(04:23):
no more. The University of Utah is on the cusp
of striking the industry's first partnership with an equity firm
and a marriage that features a nine figure capital and
fusion and the creation and shared ownership of a for
profit entity to operate athletics, business and financial elements outside
of the traditional university framework. You're working on a piece
for the trip just macro viewpoint, what have you been
(04:44):
able to kind of ascertain so far?
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Look, I mean, the reason this happened is really clear
that the University of Utah athletic program, like a lot
of athletic programs around the country, was in a significant
amount of debt and look to be moving in a
significant amount of debt moving forward, and kind of the
only way that you can get out of that is
either spend less on football, frankly, and spend less on
(05:08):
players and talent throughout your various squads.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Or to get money somehow.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
And you know, I think you know a lot of
teams have kind of gone with some different loan structures,
teams of Virginia TECHASA today, the raising the student fees
for the athletic programs to to kind of get money
that way.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
You know.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
I obviously there are sec programs, the Big ten programs
and better situations that just because those conferences give more
TV payouts. And then you look at UTAH and they
didn't want to go through any of the kind of
those other options, and so private equity was the model
that allowed them to sell part of their full you know,
(05:53):
as part of their entity, part of what they have
in college athletics to outro capital. Now, you know, we've
seen this play out. We've seen professional teams do this
as well, and and you know, so far with limited
kind of consequences for that, right, But that's what this
is about, is kind of trading you know, a bit
(06:14):
of who you are for a big upfront capital investment
and a kind of long term partnership that should continue
to provide that capital moving forward. It's it is fascinating, right,
and it's fascinating that UTAH is leading out in this
with the way that they are.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yeah, and to be first to something is not nothing,
all right, So there's an opportunity and a potential here
for this to really work out. We've been kind of
debating both sides of the equation here because you hear
a lot of panic from fans. You see a lot
of panic from fans. One thing that is not debatable
is private equity firms are in business to do one thing,
and that's to make money, and they're expecting this partnership
(06:52):
to breed an ice return on their investment in what
is being reported five to seven years where they view
their exit. So you know, that is really the bottom
line that we cannot run from. The good Andy seems
to be the economic investment that you can utilize to
add players, football, basketball, gymnastics, upgrade equipment, upgrade facilities. The
(07:12):
consumer experience will look different and hopefully be better for
ute fans. But that also probably means it comes with
a healthy premium and you're gonna be asked to pay
more for season tickets, food and bed merchants such.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Yeah, and then that's something that we're going to be
tracking at the Tribune. Is okay, this is now day
zero of this new setup. You know, what is a
hot dog cost? What is a must ticket cost? What
does you know all the various What does a sweatshirt cost?
An officially licensed seatshirt costs? And you kind of go
down the list and see how that changes in the
next five or seven years and is that above inflation?
And you know, so we're we're going to be watching that.
(07:45):
I think the fair expectation is yes, you know, when
you when you look at how private capital has impacted
other sports properties around the world, including the ones you
know that that these guys have a part in, but
to what extent? And you know, and ultimately the university
does have majority say as well, So how much can
(08:07):
they fight against the expectations of OTRO is going to
be a really interesting part of how this plays out.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
To Yeah, that needs to be underscored because oftentimes, when
private equity decides to get involved in sports or other
business endeavors, they purchase a majority and they say, we
own fifty one percent of this now. But when it
comes to the way the seats will be handed out
on this seven person board, you're gonna have Mark Harlan
is the chair. You're gonna have three other spots on
(08:34):
the board that will go to Utah people. I wonder
if Taylor Randall's one of those. I don't know. And
then OTRO gets two seats, and then there's one seat
to this seventh member. And from everything I can tell,
and I've also been on the phone all day about this,
it sounds like that is going to be a savvy
business person that's also a Utah athletic supporter. The names
are the names. It's Echoes, it's Huntspin, it's Garf or whatever.
(08:56):
So there's that, and I think that is a positive
portion of this. Where Outro did not buy controlling stake,
they do not have the majority members on this board.
And therefore, if Mark or Taylor, and this does come
down to how much do you trust Mark Carlin how
much do you trust Taylor Randall? They will have final
say when it comes to decision making. However, when a
(09:17):
private equity group gives you five hundred million dollars, they're
gonna have some very strong opinions about how you need
to operate.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Yeah, and you know, I also interested to see who
they choose as president of this organization and kind of
what people they established throughout it, right, and we'll learn
a lot about what their plans are from what their
backgrounds are, right. I think that's that's a key part
of it, right, Like you can have a board structure
that's set to intervene and set to set the overarching
(09:42):
principles of this, but the actual day to day management
of this really really matters for the fan experience for
how good these teams are, you know, kind of all
of the parts of being a University of Utah sports fan.
I mean, it is now in a significant way divorced
from the university because you do have this significant amount
of capital coming in.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
So what what will change and how much does it change?
I mean, I.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Think at today's press conference and when asked by the
Board of Trustees, they said the right things about keeping
costs down and caring about kind of the student experience first.
And and yet we know what this means, right, Like,
there's because there's no way that OUTRO came in and said, hey,
we want everything to stay the same, because right now,
(10:27):
University of Utah Sports is the money losing business.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
So when it comes to what you've learned about OTRO
so far, kind of walk us through that, because you know,
another piece of this is our reference. It does come
down to what sort of faith and trust you have
in Taylor Randall, who's a very smart, business savvy university president,
and Mark Carlin, who will be heavily involved. The other
thing is what sort of operators are OTRO, What sort
(10:52):
of operators are there? Are there memberships are are their team?
Essentially what sort of business do they like to run?
The only one I know of is Alex Shiner, who
was with the cal or excuse me, he was with
the Cowboys and the Browns, but he also spearheaded a project.
There was a Jerry Jones kind of spin off called
(11:13):
Legends Hospitality when my dad was the CEO.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
So they know each other.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
I'm gonna try to get my dad on to kind
of give his take because I don't know him the
way he does. So I don't know much about their
group outside of Alec whose side note went to the
same high school as Kobe Bryant.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
Nobody gives a rip.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
But what have you been able to learn about oat
show and what sort of information do you have about
that right now?
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Yeah, I'll say, first of all, like still doing a
lot of investigation right Like, I'm not fully ready to
put the final word on Oatro. But yeah, you mentioned
some of the people who are involved in Alec in
particular have been looking into him today. I think you
summed up well. And then just kind of looking at
their portfolio, right, like being involved with the Alpine F
one team, which is, you know, one of the F
(11:57):
one teams, one of the eleven teams, but certainly not
at the top of the you know, constructor table. Necessarily
Flex Work, which is this company that basically hosts sports
camps for athletes, both collegion and pro ones. And then
Two Circles, which is this basically sports data analytics company
that works to either you know, works with like Wimbledon,
(12:19):
works with the Cricket League to basically understand their fans
and market to them better. Right, So that's actually a
pretty diverse setup of investments that they have in their portfolio. Obviously,
the University of Utah now joins that is kind of
the most unique of those investments. It is a little
(12:43):
bit surprising and a little bit uh discouraging how little
Utah connection we've seen so far.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
You know, like.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
For whatever, maybe this is just my bias, but I
believe in kind of people who are from Utah as
kind of supporting Utah and and looking for the long
term interests of the University of Utah more than I
do necessarily a group of New York based Yeah, private
equity folks. So that's that's I think part of this story.
And I think what we will be discussing in you know,
(13:14):
it's seven to eight years when this exit happens is
did they have the best interest of the University of
Utah actually at heart or do they you know, do
they see Utah as frankly a flyover state that they
can extract the money out of, right.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
And it's the second part of that. Yeah, it just is.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
So, you know, and and in that case, you know,
to what extent do people here get hurt as a result.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
No, it's really really fair.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
And I've really done my best today to try to
outline a bunch of different avenues as far as how
this could go. Because not all private equity is created equal,
and not all private equity is bad. There are plenty
of examples of businesses that have blossomed in consumers that
have benefited because of cash infusions made by PE firms.
I just don't know enough about the operators here My
(13:57):
guess is, you know, uh, when it comes to Alex Shiner,
he's probably not going to be awake in his midtown Manhattan, beautiful,
you know condo thinking about what the must experience looks
and sounds like.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
I don't think that's anything he gives a rip about.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
It's also why it is important that the University of
Utah maintains controlling equity and also the majority of the
seats on the board. But make no mistake, these guys
are expecting in five to seven years to exit with
at least eight percent profit and hopefully more than that.
So while the consumer experience will probably be improved because
of the cash, it also will probably be something that
(14:31):
you're asked to pay more for. The other portion of
this andy is it appears that and I don't know
what this looks like, but certain people in our community
have been given opportunities to invest here, right, And so
you know, for just kind of a basic explanation, you
can write a check for I don't know, a million bucks,
and you receive some equity, you receive some shares or whatever,
(14:52):
and then on the backside, when the exit happens, you
could actually make some money, which is different than what
it typically has been. If just you're a by you
don't or if you're Cookie Bro or Ryan Smith, then
you just ride a check. You're just doing it to
donate to the institution. You're not doing it to make
money on the back end. So that's an interesting piece
of this.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Yeah, that fundamentally changes what you expect from boosters, right
and who you expect to be involved and what their
incentives are. So you know, yeah, right now, boosters are
there for the fun of it, right. They want to
see their team win more games than they were if
it would if they were not involved. They want to
be out on the field or have better tickets, or
have sweet access or what have you. Right Like, they
(15:31):
want to be part of the cool kids club. And
now instead of that, or I guess in addition to that,
because it is an addition to that, they will also
be expecting to make a return and or hoping to
make a return, and that will necessarily mean getting more
money from somewhere. I think there are positive outcomes where
(15:54):
that could happen, right Like, if Utah is able to
make it into the Big ten and has that sort
of new level of income, then great, This all kind
of works out for everybody. What I think also will
probably happen is a reduction in some expenditures that are
not supported by the numbers, and frankly that may be
(16:16):
the Olympic sports, et cetera, and then some increases in
revenue from regular fans like our listeners. And I think
that's what's scary for me, as someone who's always kind
of advocated for what regular fans are, you know, because
I grew up one here in this market, Like I
think the real potential of again the price of the
(16:40):
hot dog, the price of the must ticket, the price
of what it cost to go to a basketball game,
so on, in gymnastics whatever, so on and so forth,
that being monetized and new and for private equity bros interesting,
but for regular folks really kind of a bummer kind
of ways.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Really, it scares me.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
And you know, I think we've seen some of that
with a Jazz, with that infusion of private capital, and
I think it's certainly at risk here.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
That's the biggest question. You just hit it on the head.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
That's the biggest question, because I think there are plenty
of people in our community that have some disposable income
that would love the opportuntunity to be involved here and
invest in the product and potentially see a nice, healthy
return down the line. The question, as you just outline,
is that nobody knows the answer to is in a
(17:29):
month or in three weeks when you get an alert
that you have an email in your inbox from the
University of Uta Athletic Department and it says, Hey, we
love having you part of the family. Your season tickets
are now thirty percent more expensive. Hey, thanks for your support.
Your tailgate spot there was I don't know ten grand
last year, is forty this year. What do those people
say to the ask that is probably inevitably coming.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
That to me is probably the most intriguing piece of this.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
And look that ask is coming in all one hundred
and twenty college football teams right like. Just the prices
are going up everyone where, because if you're not doing
a deal like this, you're probably trying to You're trying
to manage your debt yourself, and that means going directly
to your fans to try to do that. To be clear,
the reason that the youths have to do this right
now is because they don't have enough rich people to
(18:14):
willing to lose money on the Utes anymore, Right, So
now all of a sudden the expectations change. I mean,
I also do worry about the investment side of it,
if you know it two three years down the road
that the you know, maybe you have another five and
seven season or just a let's call the seven five season.
Even then the the investors get skittish, right, and all
(18:37):
of a sudden, the cost expenditure on players goes down
to match. I mean, there have been some really negative
outcomes and private equity stuff that go beyond raising ticket
prices for season ticke holders, that go to fundamentally breaking
the financial structure of the of the entity itself. Yeah,
And I think that downside is the downside fans should
(19:01):
be you know, kind of most most concerned about.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
And I don't know what the.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Odds of that happening are, right, Like, I think would
be reasonable to say somewhere between five and fifty percent, right,
But if that does happen, that's when we're talking about, Okay,
the Utes going into like administration like an English Premier
League team or like you know, like where just kind
of bad stuff happens where all of a sudden they're
out of the you know athletic game in the way
(19:27):
that they are now, and that's that to me is
what you know.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
I don't want to be.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Super controversially or a hot takey, you know, that's not
what I'm trying to do here. But look, when private
equity gets involved in stuff, the Tribune barely survived, right
like when the private equity got involved.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Just like stuff does break.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Changes are inevitable and there is a potential downside here.
And the risk in my opinion, is being taken by
the Utah portion of this, Like when when when you
understand exactly how these private equity firms work, the risk
is not, in my opinion, being taken on by OTRO Capital.
I would guess they've done their calculation. Live TV rights
(20:11):
in college football have been going up for twenty five years.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
It's not stopping anytime soon.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
The Big twelve just signed a good not great deal,
but it was the only deal left in the marketplace.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
Ask our friends in the Pac twelve.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
So I'm sure Otro has looked at the trends with
live TV rights seen that they're going up. The exit
strategy is five to seven years. That coincides with the
next Big twelve TV deal. To your point, if Utah
gets the big big ten invite, this is game over.
OTRO is cashed in, like there's nothing to worry about
at all. But if there is risk in this, it
does feel like it is on the Utah athletics side
(20:43):
bringing in private equity money.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
Because of the variables you just talked about.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
I mean, I think it's on both sides, right Like,
But the problem is that the risk for the you
is it impacts everyone's life more than an impacts like
if OTRO loses money on this deal, which I do
think is possible, right Like, if the University of Utah
Athletic department continues to lose money overall over the course
of the next eight years, then OTRO loses money on this.
But OTRO has other investments that will probably keep it
(21:09):
afloat and make them do well. And you know, some
people involved, well you're you're talking about private equity people
maybe potentially losing some money. If the University of Utah
athletic program suffers as a result, though, then that has
huge implications for what we know about Utah sports for
the next decade decade plus, right Like, it's not just
(21:31):
you know, investors lose money. It's you know, what kind
of sports teams do we have here? Do we have baseball?
Do we have soft You know, like, do you know
do the utes? Are they competitive? Or are they and
also ran at the bottom of the Big twelve or
worse in another kind of re envisioned conference where they're
not part of at the at the big table anymore.
(21:53):
You know, like that kind of stuff I think is possible.
I don't think it's likely, but I think that you know, again,
just the history of these kind of interventions seeking to
lose debt in this way, it's a move that you
take on because you are a little bit desperate, because
you don't have other great answers to solve.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
This debt problem. Yeah, you can't run from that.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
That was one of my first thoughts because I was
told a few weeks ago there was going to be
a story that would become public that was gonna outline
that the University of Uta Athletic department was in thirty
to forty million dollars a debt. It doesn't put them
in a unique situation. Ohio State last year reported that
there were thirty seven million dollars in debt, and we
could continue to go down. The list in Ohio State
is freaking Ohio State. I mean, they're the best football
(22:35):
team in the country. They're in the Big ten. So
Utah is not alone in this, but it is a
sign that they were tread and water a little bit
and had to figure a way out.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
And the way that you have to get out is
you know, BYU has it's large and diverse, you know,
people who see it as part of their religious scheme
to some scheme is the wrong word, but religious set
up to someone, Yeah, yeah, you know, Texas Tech has
oil money. Uh you know, so you need you need people,
you know, frankly, it was reported that uh, Colorado was
(23:06):
interested in Saudi money right through, and so you need
someone who is frankly willing to lose money on it
if the business is going to stay operating in the
same way. Now, I think OTRO comes in and says,
we want the business to operate in a different way,
and hopefully it operates in a better, more profitable way, right,
and and maybe they make the changes to make that happen.
And if it's so, then then great, you know, And
(23:28):
and then maybe this does kind of rise all tides
and and and things can go, well, I I don't
want to dispute that, but yeah, you know, like in
the end, this is not just a Utah problem. And
I think one of the things you've seen consistently from
national commentators today is this recognition that Utah is not
going to be alone in doing no, not at all.
This is going to be you know, dozens of teams
(23:48):
going to be in this boat because this is the
logical way of dealing with year after year after your
debt in a with investors who are kind of used
to that setup in terms in chasing kind of long
term games.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
All right, before I say you lose, because you referenced
you know, Ryan Smith, his private equity partners, they take
over for the Millers. And one thing that we just
cannot run from is that your consumer experience as a
Utah fan is going to change.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
It is going to look different.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
And initially Ryan and his partners took over and they said, yeah,
we're probably not going to change much, and then they
just went ahead and you know, changed everything. So what
is different about the consumer experience at the Delta Center?
It is called the Delta Center. What's different about the
consumer experience? And look, the team is in year four
of this whatever they're doing that is unseerious about competing.
(24:36):
So while we're about to see the Utah fan experience change,
how has the Jazz fan experience changed?
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (24:41):
I mean I would say there are a lot of
things about the Delta Center that are better, right, But
I would say the things that I think about are
increased suites and increased ticket revenue. Ryan's partnered with sea
Geek and charging a good number of fees through see
geek in order to kind of recoup some of the
the per game ticket costs. So, you know, even if
(25:03):
the Jazz ticket is two dollars without fees as it
was on Monday or what was that Sunday, now it's
eight dollars, you know, so you've got a three hundred
percent fee there. I would also say kind of a
focus on keeping you know, the the again, the high
(25:25):
investing fans happy.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Right.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
So I think kind of you've seen more marketing emails,
You've seen more kind of understanding from a data point
of view of what's going on.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
With the fan base.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
I think, you know, it's it's hard to say too
because obviously the Jazz are going through their own weird
and different issues that are mostly Encore related, right like
the basketball team. Even if the Millers continue to own
the Jazz, we're going to need to go through a
rebuild it. But it does feel as if there has
been more distance between the jazz and the community in
(26:01):
this era than there was the last.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Yeah, all right, fair, Uh you know fair to say,
well said, uh, what are we going to see the
Andy Larson peace on this?
Speaker 2 (26:09):
My hope is to write it tonight and get it
online tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
That's, you know, kind of best case scenario that means
a lot of work for me tonight. I'll probably turn
it in at like three am, which means Aaron's got
to review it at like six am.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
But uh yeah, that'll be That'll be my night.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Do you ever intentionally turn into piece keeping in mind
of how miserable you're gonna make Aeron based off the timmy?
Speaker 3 (26:27):
I mean, sometimes I will schedule that email to go
out at like eight am, you know, the the Gmail
schedules end function. Yeah, if it doesn't matter, but this
one matters. So we're still going to do our best.
Sl Trip dot com and you the man, good to
see him.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
You do
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