December 11, 2025 • 23 mins
Catch “The Drive with Spence Checketts” from 2 pm to 6 pm weekdays on ESPN 700 & 92.1 FM. Produced by Porter Larsen. The latest on the Utah Jazz, Real Salt Lake, Utes, BYU + more sports storylines.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So if I inhale either Clorox or Live sol is
there is there a danger like you might have to
pay closer attention than you usually do if I just
faint in here. Can you be ready to call the ambulance?
I got you, I will. Yeah, we're disinfecting the studio
today for reasons that we'll remain off air. About fifteen
(00:22):
minutes before we signed off last night, news broke that
Shron Moore had been fired by the University of Michigan.
And then as I'm on my way home, I get
the alert from ESPN that he was in police custody.
He will be rain tomorrow, and it escalated very very quickly.
Our next guest covers college football for ESPN, the great
(00:45):
Kyle Bonnegera. So, I guess never a dull moment in
this weird sport.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah, yeah, I mean you always expect for them to
be there to be one surprise coaching change, like when
you think the carousel has stopped spinning, it's you know,
usually from the NFL or something like that, or a
surprise you retirement.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
You don't expect it to be something like what we
saw yesterday in Michigan, where Sharon Moore is is first
fired and then ends up in jail at the end
of the day or or detained or whatever it looks
like at the end of the day.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
So give us the latest as you know it and
kind of how we got here and help us understand
what you think comes next.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Yeah, So there's a lot of moving pieces here and
a lot of it's coming in very quickly.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
So, I mean, I guess the basics of it.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Right that you know, it's it's announced yesterday, you know,
midday or kind of late morning here on the West
Coast that that More was fired by the University of
Michigan for cause meaning it wasn't it you know, it
wasn't because they went nine and three and havn't really
looked as up to the Jim harbought standards fire for cousing,
(01:51):
and it came out that he had an inappropriate relationship
with a university employee. It appears to be, like you know,
it appears to be someone who worked directly for him,
according to you know, several reports about you know, having
that personally verified myself, right, and uh, you know that
was that was the end of the end of the
(02:11):
line for More. But you know, Apparently what happens after
that is, you know, he he's having some mental health
issues and apparently you know, there is for whatever transpirt
it's it's still looking firm. I'm a little hesitant to
kind of say that I know this for fact, that
it's out there for people to kind of look into.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
But but but it has happened behind the.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Scenes for the police to be brought in, for him
to be detained, to him to be held overnight, and
now he is uh going to a peering court on
Friday for an arrangement. There's allegations of assault. I think
there's some suggestions of possible self harm in a mix
as well. It's just it's just a mess, and it's
(02:53):
it's also just, you know, one of the more not
only is in a mess, it's like one of the
more fascinating. Like days, I can remember following the story
and just seeing how quickly it can change over the
course of you know, ten fifteen minutes at a time.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
So I think I read yet, excuse me, I think
I read he has like fifteen to sixteen mill left
on his contract, and obviously the language of firing four
cause and then violating literally the university in their bylaws
and policies. Is there any chance he sees any of this?
I mean, this is such as the kids would say, Man,
(03:24):
he fumbled the bag hard, because it's not about just
losing a job. It's about losing the millions that are left.
Oh do you And I haven't heard from his wife.
My guess is she's not thrilled about the entire situation.
Like on the on the scale of epically blowing something,
this has to be right up there with anything we
could think of when it comes to the way he
(03:46):
has absolutely botched not his job, but potentially his life.
I mean, I would imagine he would lawyer her up
to try to recoup some of those funds. But does
he have even a leg to stand on there at all?
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I mean, it seems pretty clear that he violated the
university policy and in like the morals clause and all
of that. And look, I think his response that he
ended up in jail at the end of the day,
detained by police, you know, probably a pretty good sign
that you know, he like, something is not is not
right there. I mean, it's it is funny though, because
(04:20):
it's like, oh.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
What's the best how far back do we have to
think about.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Something where a coach lost their lost their job over
you know, sexual impropriety or or something adjacent. And oh, yeah,
like Mel Tucker at Michigan State just a couple of
years ago also bumbled the bag. I need there were
both guys. Who who Tucker? I think he was He
had several more millions left on his contract. But yeah,
(04:46):
you know, I think to your question, like, I don't
think he'll recruit that money. I think he's probably more
concerned with staying out of jail at this point, considering
how that day progressed.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
So as far as I mean, I think the name
everybody you know kind of landed on right away was
Calin de Boor, who has a pretty decent job in Tuscaloosa.
Jesse Winter is the Chargers defensive coordinator who is there
with Harbaugh, but he has a show cast on him.
Still I'm not laughing because it's funny. I'm laughing because
it's ridiculous. And then Jet Fish, who's the coach of
(05:18):
you dub who was at Michigan as well. Where does
Michigan go from here? And how do they avoid getting
Penn stated, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
That's a good question. I mean with the Boor.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
I think for me, the Boor makes sense and that
like Michigan should be interested in Dubor. But like, I
just don't know why the Boor would be interested in
Michigan at that point yet. It hasn't gone kind of
according to plan right at Alabama so far.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
But you know, he's in the middle of preparing for
the playoffs. Maybe if they lose, I guess it changed
the dynamic.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
A little bit, but look, that's it's still a you know,
they play next week, Say they win their first game,
they beat Oklahoma like that, that's that's a while to
wait for a guy who's not a guarantee. Like that
doesn't seem realistic. I just don't know why Kaitlin would
would want to leave from Michigan. Michigan has just been
a mess up and down for several years now with
(06:07):
everything that's going on, and that would really surprise me.
I mean, the the the other options are. I mean,
like you said, moving from Washington, I don't think would
be like for Jed to leave Washington to go back
to Michigan. He was also on that Hardbot stuff for
a little while.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
I could see that happening.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
I mean he jumped quick from Arizona because it's a
kind of a step up. Michigan would obviously be, you know,
a step up in terms of prestige nationally for him.
Does he want to start over again so quickly to
jump into that toxic situation in Michigan? You know, maybe
the money also speaks, or I'll certainly would command more
in ann Arbor than he does currently in Seattle.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
But if you're Washington or if you're in Michigan.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Right, is it, like does that satisfy the fan base?
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Like?
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Is Jedfish going to be the guy who you can
sell to your alumni and your donors and say, hey,
we're back, We're going to start competing for national titles
again immediately.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
I don't think that's the case.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
I think Dad's a very good coach in Washington should
be competitive in the Big Ten for a while. But
they haven't been great the last two years. There was
certainly a little bit of a rebuild there when when
klen left, and you have to kind of level set
to its extent. The lost some players Alabama and all
of that, but it's not you know, they haven't been
a serious threat in the conference so far. So like
the immediate satisfaction of what he did there, it would
(07:29):
have to be a sim it would be a similar
type of situation going to Michigan. So I don't know
that that that, for me, doesn't seem like a higher
that would satisfy the fans.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
And how do they avoid Penn State?
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Then you start it gets it gets nicey right because
the timing, it's it's so difficult to make a good
hire when the timing is what it is. Obviously all
the big you know, Penn State is a similar is
in a similar spot, and that he would certainly appeal
to the same sorts of candidates. But he's like clark
Le gonna leave for Michigan if he wasn't gonna leave
for for for Penn State living Vanderbilt, Like Signette's not
(08:01):
going to leave Indiana right now. I mean, who else
passes the past the test? It's it's it's an interesting question.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
I know.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
I was looking at Rittenberg's kind of list of possibilities
and I was like, wow, that's They're in a tough
spot because like none of these like seemingly realistic options
are guys that are like no doubt, Yeah, this is
the obvious choice that one would be interested in. Two
would be like satisfactory for the fans on.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
The scale of you know, we talked about this after
Lane Kiffin took the LSU job and said, in his opinion,
it's the best job in America. Where does Michigan lie?
Generally speaking, I'm not asking you for like, hey, top
ten tweet at us. I'm just like, generally speaking, what
sort of job is Michigan as a result of everything
that's already gone down?
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Yes, I think, I mean it's it's up there. I
mean I would say, you know, if you're doing it
in tiers, like I think it's a tier one job.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
I mean they just won the national title a couple
of years ago.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
And I think that's how you kind of like, I
think it's there's different ways of how to kind of
answer that is that one is like I think it's
generally accepted as like what places are you best positioned
to win.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
A national title?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Right?
Speaker 3 (09:06):
And like, you know, they're certainly in the mix because
they just did it.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
It can be done.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
There's history there, there's resources, there's a stadium, they're in
the Power Conference, they have they have a recruiting base, right,
they like they check all the boxes for being right
there at the top and know whether it's better than
Texas or George or.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
I think at that point it becomes more of a
personal preference deal. Like you know, Michigan for Jim Harbaugh
was the better was the best job because it gave
him all the opportunities to win a national title and
he had the personal connection. But for but for Kirby Smart,
you know, that place is Georgia, Nick Saban, it ended
up being a couple of places, but but Alabama was
certainly like the place that he would have never left.
(09:45):
And so, yeah, I think can you wish win a
national title? Is the is the number one question to
ask when we're talking about best job, And I think
it's you know, it's it's in the mix. So but
but again, like personal preference fit those sort of things,
and that's why there's not really an obvious guy right now.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
There seemed to be this narrative around Sharon Moore because
the reality is even without and you I cannot say
without what's happened over the past twenty four hours, because
that's clearly the most damning thing about him. But there
was a recruiting show cause you can roll your eyes
on that because apparently they were talking to recruits during
COVID and Harbor about them cheeseburgers or something. Harbaugh was suspended,
(10:24):
Sharon Moore was suspended as a result of his involvement
with the Connor Stallions sign stealing thing, and then just
a general kind of narrative among a lot of fans
that maybe he was a step down from Harbaugh, who
might be the best football coach in the game, let
alone college or pro. So maybe that's not entirely fair,
but what was just sort of the general sentiment about
Sharon Moore prior to the chaos that's happened over the
(10:47):
past twenty four hours.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Yeah, I mean I don't think he ever had I mean,
he has this reputation for had this reputation as like
this up and comer, right, a guy who was moving
through the landscape quickly. Know Harbaugh really liked him, and
if you know, you know Harball likes you, that carries
some weight, right. I think it was almost like a
he was the recommendation to take over after they had
(11:10):
so much success. Man, I think it it skews it
a little bit, right because when you have as much
success as Michigan had, you want to kind of like
keep the momentum going.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
Like stick to what worked.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
And because they won the national title and then lost
their coach, which is just a strange dynamic in the
first place, you kind of look inward. I mean it
worked for Stanford when Harbaugh left to go to the
forty nine ers. They hired David Shaw, who had a
nice run, so kind of just keeping things as close
to the status quo as possible. But there was enough
change at Michigan where it wasn't the same. Pro give
me a like you point him. There's the cheating scandal,
(11:43):
of course, was a big part of that, and then
one the the other part is like you know, Ohio
State being the rival and had dominated that rivalry for
so long, and then when Michigan finally swung it okay,
I think Sharon Moore was looked at as hey, he
was part of the crew that ended the streak against
I was high of State.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
That carries weight there.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
But I think kind of lost all in this and
maybe not maybe not totally. I think it's it's it's
catching some momentum today. Is Ward Manal probably shouldn't be
the athletic director at Michigan anymore? Like how many scandals
can one athletic department endure before you point the finger
at the guy who sits atop the entire org chart?
I mean, it was it was reported today that Ward
(12:26):
Manual was aware of this relationship that Shroom Moore had
with the staffer as far back as the summer, And
you know, it's it's interesting that they weren't able to
finally pull the plug on it until yesterday. What does
that say about his leadership? If he was the investigation,
did they not push hard enough?
Speaker 4 (12:44):
Was he aware?
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Like there's a lot of other questions that I think
he has to answer to, and giving the level of
the embarrassment this time around, you know, he kind of
had his second chance to kind of navigate in the
wake of the cheating scandal and now with another one,
and he hired Sharon Moore. He was the one who
made that decision. Should he be given another opportunity? Probably not?
(13:06):
And so then what do you do who hires the
coach at that point?
Speaker 4 (13:09):
And how does that change the time and of everything? All?
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Right, big news around these parts this week, Kyle, Where
I think Initially it was Ross Dellinger from Yahoo, and
then of course you guys picked up on it, and
Dan Wetzel's written about it. The guys at the Athletic
have covered it, and you and I have discussed the
potential of private equity making its way into college football
for a long time and wasn't sure who would be
first to the table. Thought it might be a conference
(13:33):
as the Big Ten appeared to be close to it.
Then Brett Yormark reportedly was into it. Well, it turns
out that it's going to be a team first to
the table, and that team plays their football a mile
and a half. Where you and I are talking right
now is the University of Utah astruck a deal with
Outro Capital, a New York based sports private equity firm.
As you can imagine, it's been the driving topic on
the show all week. Doctor Chris Hill will join us,
(13:55):
who was the ad up there for a number of years,
in a little bit. But what's your initial reaction to this,
and you know, any thoughts on what it means for
the football program and the athletic department here in Utah.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Yeah, I think the kind of gut reaction here is
this is interesting, right, it's new, it's different, whether it's
good or bad. I don't I mean, I just don't
have a great sense of that yet because I'm I
am skeptical that it's going to be a game changer
over Like, obviously, infusion of cash is big, and maybe
there's some noteworthy differences right away, but I'm also a
(14:30):
little bit skeptical to uh kind of buy into the
idea that, look, these guys know how to do this
better than the people who have been doing it, right.
I mean, there's some at the I guess it's Otro
Capital is there's this organization that they've that they're in
partnership with now and there I was reading about some
of the executives. They have some you know interesting uh
(14:52):
you know interesting cvs working in different uh facets of
competitive sports. A lot of you know NFL guys, some
international soccer stuff f one I saw.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
So there's like a.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Lot of complex backgrounds that people can maybe bring some
new ideas to the table. But again, like, is it
going to be are you going to unlock something so
new and revolutionary that I that Utah couldn't have done
by itself. I don't necessarily think that's that's really the case.
Maybe you're be able to streamline some things, but how
much of a difference will that really make, you know,
(15:24):
time will tell. I think it's the money that they're
getting up front that they're able to, you know, put
towards different projects that will kind of jump start things,
and they're hoping that, like if they're able to add
this investment and over time, maybe they'll speed up where
they are in terms of where they operate. So super fascinating.
I need to do a lot more reading and talking
to people about the specifics of it and where to
(15:47):
look for change immediately over the next couple of years.
But certainly fascinating, especially because as Utah team, that a
school that I follow very closely. So it's certainly something
that I'll be probably doing quite a bit of reporting
here in the next couple of months.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
So the reports are initially and nobody really seems to
know exactly how much money is coming in right away
and how much will come over time. But the understanding
most people have out here is that the Utah Athletic
Department has to service a significant amount of debt and
that's what the money will be used for. Initially, and
(16:22):
then maybe some arena upgrades, some stadium upgrades. The Huntsman
Center needs to be upgraded worse than my nineteen thirteen
Sugar House Bungalow. I mean, there's so many things they
have to do to that arena, and then Rice Eckels
could probably use a little touch up here or there.
But in the course of kind of learning about this
and the reporting of a lot of really smart college
football people, you start to learn that Utah is far
(16:44):
from the only athletic department that has serious debt, namely
Ohio State, who made about two hundred and sixty million
last year and reported a debt of thirty seven mili.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg. We could
list most. I don't know if most is accurate, but
it appears now that college athletics doesn't have a revenue
generating problem, but they have a spending problem when you
(17:05):
look at the numbers. I mean, the Big Ten for
the better part of fifteen years has been essentially going
about their business of coaching teams and killing leagues in
the name of just generating revenue for their conference only.
And they're out of money, Like they're talking to private
equity your thoughts on this, Like, the spending issue in
college athletics seems to be what's getting in the way,
(17:26):
not the you know, generating revenue issue.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
It feels like we've we've heard that there's a money
issue for you know, a decade, maybe even longer, and
yet coaching salaries keith continue to increase. Now you have
the NIL component, it requires significant investment.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
I mean, Recycles had a.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Major renovation, you know, not that long ago, and that's
common at a lot of places where they're spending tens fifty,
you know, one hundred million dollars or more on stadium
improvements that you know come from various fees and whatnot.
But yeah, look, I think it's very clear that they
don't need money. They just want to spend. And there's
this idea that you have to keep up with the
(18:04):
guy next to you in order to be competitive, which
I'm not really sure is the case.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
I think that I was.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
I think when it was I think NIL has changed
everything because I think when it was, Hey, we need
to have a stadium, a nicer stadium, We need to
have nicer locker rooms, we need to have all these
amenities to help appeal to athletes during the recruiting process,
like that for me made a lot of sense. But
now that NIL is far and away the most significant
(18:34):
factor in luring some of these top recruits, you know,
I think like how nicer locker room is probably as
not important as it was you know, six seven, ten
years ago, right, And so a lot of that money and.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
Those resources have to be diverted.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
And so if you don't have a nice locker room,
but you're fully funded with NIL and you're doing everything
you can to make sure that your roster is as
good as possible, I think, because that's the number one
factor right in terms of generating revenue. On the back
end is are you winning games and are you going
to you're winning games if you're investing in your roster.
And I think it's become very straightforward in that sense.
(19:11):
It's very much more like a pro model than it
was before. So all of that makes this so complex
because if you're you're adding this private equity money with
the goal of what to make more money or to
win more games? Is it all tied up into one pot?
Like how do you like where are the priorities? And again,
for me, it's it's not really clear, but certainly Utaw
(19:34):
and other places have a spending issue. Cal's been in
debt for a long time, not because of spending for
things that they don't need, but they had to do
a massive like stadium earthquake rent retrofit. Right, So there's
like a lot of different factors that are in player.
So again we keep hearing about money issues, and yet
it seems like they continue to spend more money.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
Exponentially year after year.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
All right, Kyle, before I say you loose, we are
just weeks away now from the World Cup, and if
you're a fan of the US men's national team, I'm
not sure that you could be more happy with this draw. Now.
There are a lot more teams, and so you know,
when you look across the landscape of the groups, and
a lot of lots has been written about this as
a result of kind of the oversaturated nature of how
(20:22):
many teams are in the tournament, there doesn't appear to
be And I know soccer fans hate when you use
the term group of death, but typically that's been a
thing that you look at where and maybe it's England, Croatia, Goda, Panama.
I think that's getting the most attention but the US
finds themselves in groove d along with Paraguay and Australia,
two teams they played recently and beaten, and then the
(20:43):
winner of playoff pats C. And I'm not going to
pretend I'm smashing tape on Turkey soccer. So I don't
know who that's going to be. But based off of
what we know now, what should be a reasonable expectation
for the US men's national team in the World Cup.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
I had a sense that it was going to be
like this. The numbers just it was the amount of teams,
like you said, like it was going to say, it
was going to water down the group. So it was
never a question of like could they or should they
get through the.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
Group, Like there isn't a group in here.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
If you swap a pot A team with the United States,
where they wouldn't have the expectation wouldn't have.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
Been to get through.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
It's about getting further than you ever had before, right,
And so it wasn't even about getting through the round
of thirty two.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
I mean, if you.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Look at last World Cup, they made it to the
round of sixteen and tough draw against the Netherlands. So
for me, that's the starting point. Okay, sixteen is like
that's the bare minimum to be like, hey, this is
about probably where the United States should fall if you know,
nine times out of ten, that's probably like where they
probably deserve to be is the round of sixteen. I
think that's the case again here just in terms of
(21:48):
you know, they're not one of the best eight teams
in the world, right, but they're also not you know,
but I think on home soil, sixteen is is the baseline.
So if you advanced past, I think it's a success.
If you don't get to the round of sixteen, it's
a failure. And I think, you know, sixteen is just right.
I think being at home makes it, you know, heightens
(22:09):
expectations a bit and that you you should kind of
out punch your weight class a bit. And if you
can get a favorable draw, you know, the quarterfinals would
be an overwhelming success because it would match the you know,
match the best finish they've had in a modern World Cup.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Well, excited for it. It's gonna be fun to have
it in the region. Are you going to try to
get to any matches.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Still to be determined if I'm going to be involved
in or hey, for how I'll be involved in our
in our covers this time around, or if I'll just
try to go still see games as a fan. We
got some time to figure that stuff out, but certainly
we'll be playing very close attention however however that plays out.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
All right, man, Thanks for the time, have a great weekend.
We'll chat soon.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
Sounds good too.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Bonagart covers college football and soccer for ESPN. He's on
Twitter at Bontager at ESPN is where you find him.
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(23:13):
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through the nineteenth
So if I inhale either Clorox or Live sol is
there is there a danger like you might have to
pay closer attention than you usually do if I just
faint in here. Can you be ready to call the ambulance?
I got you, I will. Yeah, we're disinfecting the studio
today for reasons that we'll remain off air. About fifteen
(00:22):
minutes before we signed off last night, news broke that
Shron Moore had been fired by the University of Michigan.
And then as I'm on my way home, I get
the alert from ESPN that he was in police custody.
He will be rain tomorrow, and it escalated very very quickly.
Our next guest covers college football for ESPN, the great
(00:45):
Kyle Bonnegera. So, I guess never a dull moment in
this weird sport.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah, yeah, I mean you always expect for them to
be there to be one surprise coaching change, like when
you think the carousel has stopped spinning, it's you know,
usually from the NFL or something like that, or a
surprise you retirement.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
You don't expect it to be something like what we
saw yesterday in Michigan, where Sharon Moore is is first
fired and then ends up in jail at the end
of the day or or detained or whatever it looks
like at the end of the day.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
So give us the latest as you know it and
kind of how we got here and help us understand
what you think comes next.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Yeah, So there's a lot of moving pieces here and
a lot of it's coming in very quickly.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
So, I mean, I guess the basics of it.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Right that you know, it's it's announced yesterday, you know,
midday or kind of late morning here on the West
Coast that that More was fired by the University of
Michigan for cause meaning it wasn't it you know, it
wasn't because they went nine and three and havn't really
looked as up to the Jim harbought standards fire for cousing,
(01:51):
and it came out that he had an inappropriate relationship
with a university employee. It appears to be, like you know,
it appears to be someone who worked directly for him,
according to you know, several reports about you know, having
that personally verified myself, right, and uh, you know that
was that was the end of the end of the
(02:11):
line for More. But you know, Apparently what happens after
that is, you know, he he's having some mental health
issues and apparently you know, there is for whatever transpirt
it's it's still looking firm. I'm a little hesitant to
kind of say that I know this for fact, that
it's out there for people to kind of look into.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
But but but it has happened behind the.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Scenes for the police to be brought in, for him
to be detained, to him to be held overnight, and
now he is uh going to a peering court on
Friday for an arrangement. There's allegations of assault. I think
there's some suggestions of possible self harm in a mix
as well. It's just it's just a mess, and it's
(02:53):
it's also just, you know, one of the more not
only is in a mess, it's like one of the
more fascinating. Like days, I can remember following the story
and just seeing how quickly it can change over the
course of you know, ten fifteen minutes at a time.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
So I think I read yet, excuse me, I think
I read he has like fifteen to sixteen mill left
on his contract, and obviously the language of firing four
cause and then violating literally the university in their bylaws
and policies. Is there any chance he sees any of this?
I mean, this is such as the kids would say, Man,
(03:24):
he fumbled the bag hard, because it's not about just
losing a job. It's about losing the millions that are left.
Oh do you And I haven't heard from his wife.
My guess is she's not thrilled about the entire situation.
Like on the on the scale of epically blowing something,
this has to be right up there with anything we
could think of when it comes to the way he
(03:46):
has absolutely botched not his job, but potentially his life.
I mean, I would imagine he would lawyer her up
to try to recoup some of those funds. But does
he have even a leg to stand on there at all?
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I mean, it seems pretty clear that he violated the
university policy and in like the morals clause and all
of that. And look, I think his response that he
ended up in jail at the end of the day,
detained by police, you know, probably a pretty good sign
that you know, he like, something is not is not
right there. I mean, it's it is funny though, because
(04:20):
it's like, oh.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
What's the best how far back do we have to
think about.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Something where a coach lost their lost their job over
you know, sexual impropriety or or something adjacent. And oh, yeah,
like Mel Tucker at Michigan State just a couple of
years ago also bumbled the bag. I need there were
both guys. Who who Tucker? I think he was He
had several more millions left on his contract. But yeah,
(04:46):
you know, I think to your question, like, I don't
think he'll recruit that money. I think he's probably more
concerned with staying out of jail at this point, considering
how that day progressed.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
So as far as I mean, I think the name
everybody you know kind of landed on right away was
Calin de Boor, who has a pretty decent job in Tuscaloosa.
Jesse Winter is the Chargers defensive coordinator who is there
with Harbaugh, but he has a show cast on him.
Still I'm not laughing because it's funny. I'm laughing because
it's ridiculous. And then Jet Fish, who's the coach of
(05:18):
you dub who was at Michigan as well. Where does
Michigan go from here? And how do they avoid getting
Penn stated, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
That's a good question. I mean with the Boor.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
I think for me, the Boor makes sense and that
like Michigan should be interested in Dubor. But like, I
just don't know why the Boor would be interested in
Michigan at that point yet. It hasn't gone kind of
according to plan right at Alabama so far.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
But you know, he's in the middle of preparing for
the playoffs. Maybe if they lose, I guess it changed
the dynamic.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
A little bit, but look, that's it's still a you know,
they play next week, Say they win their first game,
they beat Oklahoma like that, that's that's a while to
wait for a guy who's not a guarantee. Like that
doesn't seem realistic. I just don't know why Kaitlin would
would want to leave from Michigan. Michigan has just been
a mess up and down for several years now with
(06:07):
everything that's going on, and that would really surprise me.
I mean, the the the other options are. I mean,
like you said, moving from Washington, I don't think would
be like for Jed to leave Washington to go back
to Michigan. He was also on that Hardbot stuff for
a little while.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
I could see that happening.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
I mean he jumped quick from Arizona because it's a
kind of a step up. Michigan would obviously be, you know,
a step up in terms of prestige nationally for him.
Does he want to start over again so quickly to
jump into that toxic situation in Michigan? You know, maybe
the money also speaks, or I'll certainly would command more
in ann Arbor than he does currently in Seattle.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
But if you're Washington or if you're in Michigan.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Right, is it, like does that satisfy the fan base?
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Like?
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Is Jedfish going to be the guy who you can
sell to your alumni and your donors and say, hey,
we're back, We're going to start competing for national titles
again immediately.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
I don't think that's the case.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
I think Dad's a very good coach in Washington should
be competitive in the Big Ten for a while. But
they haven't been great the last two years. There was
certainly a little bit of a rebuild there when when
klen left, and you have to kind of level set
to its extent. The lost some players Alabama and all
of that, but it's not you know, they haven't been
a serious threat in the conference so far. So like
the immediate satisfaction of what he did there, it would
(07:29):
have to be a sim it would be a similar
type of situation going to Michigan. So I don't know
that that that, for me, doesn't seem like a higher
that would satisfy the fans.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
And how do they avoid Penn State?
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Then you start it gets it gets nicey right because
the timing, it's it's so difficult to make a good
hire when the timing is what it is. Obviously all
the big you know, Penn State is a similar is
in a similar spot, and that he would certainly appeal
to the same sorts of candidates. But he's like clark
Le gonna leave for Michigan if he wasn't gonna leave
for for for Penn State living Vanderbilt, Like Signette's not
(08:01):
going to leave Indiana right now. I mean, who else
passes the past the test? It's it's it's an interesting question.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
I know.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
I was looking at Rittenberg's kind of list of possibilities
and I was like, wow, that's They're in a tough
spot because like none of these like seemingly realistic options
are guys that are like no doubt, Yeah, this is
the obvious choice that one would be interested in. Two
would be like satisfactory for the fans on.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
The scale of you know, we talked about this after
Lane Kiffin took the LSU job and said, in his opinion,
it's the best job in America. Where does Michigan lie?
Generally speaking, I'm not asking you for like, hey, top
ten tweet at us. I'm just like, generally speaking, what
sort of job is Michigan as a result of everything
that's already gone down?
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Yes, I think, I mean it's it's up there. I
mean I would say, you know, if you're doing it
in tiers, like I think it's a tier one job.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
I mean they just won the national title a couple
of years ago.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
And I think that's how you kind of like, I
think it's there's different ways of how to kind of
answer that is that one is like I think it's
generally accepted as like what places are you best positioned
to win.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
A national title?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Right?
Speaker 3 (09:06):
And like, you know, they're certainly in the mix because
they just did it.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
It can be done.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
There's history there, there's resources, there's a stadium, they're in
the Power Conference, they have they have a recruiting base, right,
they like they check all the boxes for being right
there at the top and know whether it's better than
Texas or George or.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
I think at that point it becomes more of a
personal preference deal. Like you know, Michigan for Jim Harbaugh
was the better was the best job because it gave
him all the opportunities to win a national title and
he had the personal connection. But for but for Kirby Smart,
you know, that place is Georgia, Nick Saban, it ended
up being a couple of places, but but Alabama was
certainly like the place that he would have never left.
(09:45):
And so, yeah, I think can you wish win a
national title? Is the is the number one question to
ask when we're talking about best job, And I think
it's you know, it's it's in the mix. So but
but again, like personal preference fit those sort of things,
and that's why there's not really an obvious guy right now.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
There seemed to be this narrative around Sharon Moore because
the reality is even without and you I cannot say
without what's happened over the past twenty four hours, because
that's clearly the most damning thing about him. But there
was a recruiting show cause you can roll your eyes
on that because apparently they were talking to recruits during
COVID and Harbor about them cheeseburgers or something. Harbaugh was suspended,
(10:24):
Sharon Moore was suspended as a result of his involvement
with the Connor Stallions sign stealing thing, and then just
a general kind of narrative among a lot of fans
that maybe he was a step down from Harbaugh, who
might be the best football coach in the game, let
alone college or pro. So maybe that's not entirely fair,
but what was just sort of the general sentiment about
Sharon Moore prior to the chaos that's happened over the
(10:47):
past twenty four hours.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Yeah, I mean I don't think he ever had I mean,
he has this reputation for had this reputation as like
this up and comer, right, a guy who was moving
through the landscape quickly. Know Harbaugh really liked him, and
if you know, you know Harball likes you, that carries
some weight, right. I think it was almost like a
he was the recommendation to take over after they had
(11:10):
so much success. Man, I think it it skews it
a little bit, right because when you have as much
success as Michigan had, you want to kind of like
keep the momentum going.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
Like stick to what worked.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
And because they won the national title and then lost
their coach, which is just a strange dynamic in the
first place, you kind of look inward. I mean it
worked for Stanford when Harbaugh left to go to the
forty nine ers. They hired David Shaw, who had a
nice run, so kind of just keeping things as close
to the status quo as possible. But there was enough
change at Michigan where it wasn't the same. Pro give
me a like you point him. There's the cheating scandal,
(11:43):
of course, was a big part of that, and then
one the the other part is like you know, Ohio
State being the rival and had dominated that rivalry for
so long, and then when Michigan finally swung it okay,
I think Sharon Moore was looked at as hey, he
was part of the crew that ended the streak against
I was high of State.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
That carries weight there.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
But I think kind of lost all in this and
maybe not maybe not totally. I think it's it's it's
catching some momentum today. Is Ward Manal probably shouldn't be
the athletic director at Michigan anymore? Like how many scandals
can one athletic department endure before you point the finger
at the guy who sits atop the entire org chart?
I mean, it was it was reported today that Ward
(12:26):
Manual was aware of this relationship that Shroom Moore had
with the staffer as far back as the summer, And
you know, it's it's interesting that they weren't able to
finally pull the plug on it until yesterday. What does
that say about his leadership? If he was the investigation,
did they not push hard enough?
Speaker 4 (12:44):
Was he aware?
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Like there's a lot of other questions that I think
he has to answer to, and giving the level of
the embarrassment this time around, you know, he kind of
had his second chance to kind of navigate in the
wake of the cheating scandal and now with another one,
and he hired Sharon Moore. He was the one who
made that decision. Should he be given another opportunity? Probably not?
(13:06):
And so then what do you do who hires the
coach at that point?
Speaker 4 (13:09):
And how does that change the time and of everything? All?
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Right, big news around these parts this week, Kyle, Where
I think Initially it was Ross Dellinger from Yahoo, and
then of course you guys picked up on it, and
Dan Wetzel's written about it. The guys at the Athletic
have covered it, and you and I have discussed the
potential of private equity making its way into college football
for a long time and wasn't sure who would be
first to the table. Thought it might be a conference
(13:33):
as the Big Ten appeared to be close to it.
Then Brett Yormark reportedly was into it. Well, it turns
out that it's going to be a team first to
the table, and that team plays their football a mile
and a half. Where you and I are talking right
now is the University of Utah astruck a deal with
Outro Capital, a New York based sports private equity firm.
As you can imagine, it's been the driving topic on
the show all week. Doctor Chris Hill will join us,
(13:55):
who was the ad up there for a number of years,
in a little bit. But what's your initial reaction to this,
and you know, any thoughts on what it means for
the football program and the athletic department here in Utah.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Yeah, I think the kind of gut reaction here is
this is interesting, right, it's new, it's different, whether it's
good or bad. I don't I mean, I just don't
have a great sense of that yet because I'm I
am skeptical that it's going to be a game changer
over Like, obviously, infusion of cash is big, and maybe
there's some noteworthy differences right away, but I'm also a
(14:30):
little bit skeptical to uh kind of buy into the
idea that, look, these guys know how to do this
better than the people who have been doing it, right.
I mean, there's some at the I guess it's Otro
Capital is there's this organization that they've that they're in
partnership with now and there I was reading about some
of the executives. They have some you know interesting uh
(14:52):
you know interesting cvs working in different uh facets of
competitive sports. A lot of you know NFL guys, some
international soccer stuff f one I saw.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
So there's like a.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Lot of complex backgrounds that people can maybe bring some
new ideas to the table. But again, like, is it
going to be are you going to unlock something so
new and revolutionary that I that Utah couldn't have done
by itself. I don't necessarily think that's that's really the case.
Maybe you're be able to streamline some things, but how
much of a difference will that really make, you know,
(15:24):
time will tell. I think it's the money that they're
getting up front that they're able to, you know, put
towards different projects that will kind of jump start things,
and they're hoping that, like if they're able to add
this investment and over time, maybe they'll speed up where
they are in terms of where they operate. So super fascinating.
I need to do a lot more reading and talking
to people about the specifics of it and where to
(15:47):
look for change immediately over the next couple of years.
But certainly fascinating, especially because as Utah team, that a
school that I follow very closely. So it's certainly something
that I'll be probably doing quite a bit of reporting
here in the next couple of months.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
So the reports are initially and nobody really seems to
know exactly how much money is coming in right away
and how much will come over time. But the understanding
most people have out here is that the Utah Athletic
Department has to service a significant amount of debt and
that's what the money will be used for. Initially, and
(16:22):
then maybe some arena upgrades, some stadium upgrades. The Huntsman
Center needs to be upgraded worse than my nineteen thirteen
Sugar House Bungalow. I mean, there's so many things they
have to do to that arena, and then Rice Eckels
could probably use a little touch up here or there.
But in the course of kind of learning about this
and the reporting of a lot of really smart college
football people, you start to learn that Utah is far
(16:44):
from the only athletic department that has serious debt, namely
Ohio State, who made about two hundred and sixty million
last year and reported a debt of thirty seven mili.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg. We could
list most. I don't know if most is accurate, but
it appears now that college athletics doesn't have a revenue
generating problem, but they have a spending problem when you
(17:05):
look at the numbers. I mean, the Big Ten for
the better part of fifteen years has been essentially going
about their business of coaching teams and killing leagues in
the name of just generating revenue for their conference only.
And they're out of money, Like they're talking to private
equity your thoughts on this, Like, the spending issue in
college athletics seems to be what's getting in the way,
(17:26):
not the you know, generating revenue issue.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
It feels like we've we've heard that there's a money
issue for you know, a decade, maybe even longer, and
yet coaching salaries keith continue to increase. Now you have
the NIL component, it requires significant investment.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
I mean, Recycles had a.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Major renovation, you know, not that long ago, and that's
common at a lot of places where they're spending tens fifty,
you know, one hundred million dollars or more on stadium
improvements that you know come from various fees and whatnot.
But yeah, look, I think it's very clear that they
don't need money. They just want to spend. And there's
this idea that you have to keep up with the
(18:04):
guy next to you in order to be competitive, which
I'm not really sure is the case.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
I think that I was.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
I think when it was I think NIL has changed
everything because I think when it was, Hey, we need
to have a stadium, a nicer stadium, We need to
have nicer locker rooms, we need to have all these
amenities to help appeal to athletes during the recruiting process,
like that for me made a lot of sense. But
now that NIL is far and away the most significant
(18:34):
factor in luring some of these top recruits, you know,
I think like how nicer locker room is probably as
not important as it was you know, six seven, ten
years ago, right, And so a lot of that money and.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
Those resources have to be diverted.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
And so if you don't have a nice locker room,
but you're fully funded with NIL and you're doing everything
you can to make sure that your roster is as
good as possible, I think, because that's the number one
factor right in terms of generating revenue. On the back
end is are you winning games and are you going
to you're winning games if you're investing in your roster.
And I think it's become very straightforward in that sense.
(19:11):
It's very much more like a pro model than it
was before. So all of that makes this so complex
because if you're you're adding this private equity money with
the goal of what to make more money or to
win more games? Is it all tied up into one pot?
Like how do you like where are the priorities? And again,
for me, it's it's not really clear, but certainly Utaw
(19:34):
and other places have a spending issue. Cal's been in
debt for a long time, not because of spending for
things that they don't need, but they had to do
a massive like stadium earthquake rent retrofit. Right, So there's
like a lot of different factors that are in player.
So again we keep hearing about money issues, and yet
it seems like they continue to spend more money.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
Exponentially year after year.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
All right, Kyle, before I say you loose, we are
just weeks away now from the World Cup, and if
you're a fan of the US men's national team, I'm
not sure that you could be more happy with this draw. Now.
There are a lot more teams, and so you know,
when you look across the landscape of the groups, and
a lot of lots has been written about this as
a result of kind of the oversaturated nature of how
(20:22):
many teams are in the tournament, there doesn't appear to
be And I know soccer fans hate when you use
the term group of death, but typically that's been a
thing that you look at where and maybe it's England, Croatia, Goda, Panama.
I think that's getting the most attention but the US
finds themselves in groove d along with Paraguay and Australia,
two teams they played recently and beaten, and then the
(20:43):
winner of playoff pats C. And I'm not going to
pretend I'm smashing tape on Turkey soccer. So I don't
know who that's going to be. But based off of
what we know now, what should be a reasonable expectation
for the US men's national team in the World Cup.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
I had a sense that it was going to be
like this. The numbers just it was the amount of teams,
like you said, like it was going to say, it
was going to water down the group. So it was
never a question of like could they or should they
get through the.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
Group, Like there isn't a group in here.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
If you swap a pot A team with the United States,
where they wouldn't have the expectation wouldn't have.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
Been to get through.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
It's about getting further than you ever had before, right,
And so it wasn't even about getting through the round
of thirty two.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
I mean, if you.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Look at last World Cup, they made it to the
round of sixteen and tough draw against the Netherlands. So
for me, that's the starting point. Okay, sixteen is like
that's the bare minimum to be like, hey, this is
about probably where the United States should fall if you know,
nine times out of ten, that's probably like where they
probably deserve to be is the round of sixteen. I
think that's the case again here just in terms of
(21:48):
you know, they're not one of the best eight teams
in the world, right, but they're also not you know,
but I think on home soil, sixteen is is the baseline.
So if you advanced past, I think it's a success.
If you don't get to the round of sixteen, it's
a failure. And I think, you know, sixteen is just right.
I think being at home makes it, you know, heightens
(22:09):
expectations a bit and that you you should kind of
out punch your weight class a bit. And if you
can get a favorable draw, you know, the quarterfinals would
be an overwhelming success because it would match the you know,
match the best finish they've had in a modern World Cup.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Well, excited for it. It's gonna be fun to have
it in the region. Are you going to try to
get to any matches.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Still to be determined if I'm going to be involved
in or hey, for how I'll be involved in our
in our covers this time around, or if I'll just
try to go still see games as a fan. We
got some time to figure that stuff out, but certainly
we'll be playing very close attention however however that plays out.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
All right, man, Thanks for the time, have a great weekend.
We'll chat soon.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
Sounds good too.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Bonagart covers college football and soccer for ESPN. He's on
Twitter at Bontager at ESPN is where you find him.
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