September 12, 2025 • 24 mins
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Friday, September twelfth, we are two weeks away, exactly two
weeks away from the start of the Ryder Cup at
Bethpage State Park in Farmingdale, New York. We got the
Pro Corps Championship. Yeah, that thing is going on right now,
but it is relevant because we have some Ryder Cup
players not just playing but playing well. And a local
(00:22):
guy in the top ten is Zach Blair seven hundred
par our. Next guest joins us on a weekly basis
to talk about the world of golf.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Paul Pugmyer. Happy Friday, sir, How are.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
You doing great?
Speaker 4 (00:32):
Doing great spence two weeks out, We're already vibrating. Yes,
fun stuff can't wait.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
And you know, I'm seeing Patrick Fishburne is actually having
himself a nice little tournament as well. So tell me
about the Pro Corp Championship. It's in NAPA at the
Silverado Resort. And obviously with the undercurrent of the World Cup,
excuse me, the Ryder Cup, World Cups in nine months,
the Ryder Cup in two weeks.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
It's good to see the majority of the field.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
As far as what I'm witnessing here in this tournament,
it sounds like Xander's wife is delivering a baby, so
he's with her.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
What you totally understand, But.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
It feels like this tournament has a little bit extra
gravitas as a result of the Ryder Cup coming up.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Yeah, yeah, no question.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
You know, the DP World Tour, the European Tour still
is completing its season long points and so all the
European Ryder Cup players are engaged involved in that because
they're basing the points. And all the Ryder Cup players
in America on the US team, of course, they don't
do that because Captain says, God, I want you play.
(01:37):
I want you tournament tough and getting reps in. So
come to pro Corp. And as you noted, Shoffley got
a pass because his wife is having a baby. And
obviously Deve Schambeau, Bryson Dey Shambau can be there because
he doesn't have qualif kitchens to play on the PGA Tour.
The other pen are there, and Kegan Bradley is there
(01:58):
and he's walking around talk looking to people. He's not playing.
He is in captain mode and it is just so
fun to see. You look at the top three players
on the leaderboard and they all share a characteristic Oh yeah,
they're on the Ryder Cup team.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
So last time around, only Justin Thomas and Max Homa
played the Pro Corp ahead of the twenty twenty three
Ryder Cup and we all remember what happened there as
the Europeans just curb stopped us.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
It was not even close.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Do you think do you think that lesson is kind
of tied into the decision making of these ten players
to play that or do you think it was Keegan
kind of encouraging them to not just play but be together, right,
because that's a big portion of what the Ryder Cup
is about.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Building the camaraderie and the team aspect of it, no question,
is a benefit. But it's equally no question that the
lesson was learned that the American players went in flat
because they had been off for three or four weeks
and they they weren't game ready. And where that really
showed up was in Friday morning four ball. We got
(03:07):
smoked and we were flat and the matches weren't even close.
They didn't nothing got to eighteen and bam were down
four points to start with and never really recovered from there.
And so so yeah, the lesson was learned and there's
no question that not going to repeat that mistake.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
So when it comes to just simply the dynamic of
utilizing the world number one, Okay, so that I've listened
to a couple of interviews in a couple of pods
previewing the Ryder Cup, and they've all honed in on Yeah,
and we talked about this last week, Like, honestly, on paper,
I feel like the Europeans might have more talent. I
just thought, you know, I thought Lucas knocked out of
(03:51):
the park when it came to his selections.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
That's a really, really dangerous team. But we have that dude.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
We have the one guy that every player included, and
Rory has said, when I show up to a tournament,
I know I've got to beat Scotty.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
How do we utilize him best?
Speaker 3 (04:08):
What a great question.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
And I'm gonna I'm going to see you and raise
you before I address Scotty. I think we've got two dudes.
I think that Dave Chambeau is a person who is
big enough in personality and in mental strength and big
enough in his game to overpower the black course at
that page and to overpower an opponent. And I think
(04:31):
that we've really got two alpha horses in this whole event.
That is a whole bunch of alpha players. But in
terms of Scotti Scheffler, it's been so fascinating to watch
him this the first two rounds at pro corp he
is clearly scraping it. He is clearly leaving shots out there.
(04:53):
He is clearly frustrated. And yet where is he. He's
in the top ten, and he knows and everybody else
knows that he will learn what he needs to learn.
He'll make the correction and he'll be ready at Beth
Page and you better look out.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
So Scotty did some media prior to the start of
this tournament and he himself talked about how he's changed
his preparation. He have two matches and lost to So
he left Rome without winning a single match and for
the first time. And look, I love Scotty, what's not
to love. But he sometimes can come across as a
little robotic, and you know, he showed some real emotion.
(05:32):
He was in tears after you know, the the Rome
match was essentially settled, and he knew that he was
getting on that plane without winning one match. Do you
have any insight on this different preparation that he's already
talked about to make sure that we don't see what
we saw in Rome.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Scotty has a real interesting duality to his character, to
his personality. He is not flamboyant. He is he is
not carry but he has a deep, white hot fire
in his soul to compete at this game, and not
(06:10):
only to compete, but to to dominate, dominate the golf course,
dominate too. Ever in his way that he needs to
dominate to play to win. Scotty has a deep fire
and it gets lost sometimes because he's a genuinely nice
man and and genuinely soft spoken, and like I say,
(06:35):
he just he's he's not charismatic. He's not gonna gonna
get a TV show. You're going to get a sitcom
and make it work. But holy cow, he will play
the game and he will step on your throat and
twist his spikes and then move on to the next hole.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Help me understand the process that Keegan and other captains
have to go through and how it works when they
select certain golfers for certain formats when it comes to
the Ryder Cup, whether it's paying them together based off
of past results or maybe trying something new if things
haven't worked, Like what really is on Keegan and his
assistant captain's plates when they're going through the process of
(07:18):
selecting which players match which format based off of form
or history or whatever.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
That looks like what a great question. And the reality is,
once you get to the golf course and once we're
ready to start play, that is the biggest thing left,
maybe the only thing left, that a captain has to
affect the outcome. First of all, just a little context here.
(07:45):
The format by which pairings are made in the Ryder
Cup is different from the format by which pairings are
made in the President's Cup. In the President's Cup, the
captains get together in a live public press conference and
they go back and forth. They say, match one, here's
my guys, Okay, who are you putting up against them? Okay,
match to the person who went second, now goes first.
(08:06):
Here's my guys, who are you putting up against them?
And it's it's like a reciprocal draft, back and forth,
and it's really cool to watch. In the Ryder Cup,
the captains fill out the lineup card the way a
baseball manager fills out a lineup card, and then the
way baseball managers will go to home plate before the
game and exchange lineup cards. That's what the captains do,
(08:28):
and so there's a whole bunch of three D chess
going on. You have to match the personalities, You have
to match the game strength to the format of that
match's format. Is it alternate ball, is it is it
the four ball, or is it you know, how does
that play out? You have to consider what golf ball
(08:49):
they play. If it's alternate ball and you've got one
of your guys playing titleists and the other guy playing callaway,
is that going to affect the play of one or
the other. And that's something you talk to them about
out because they don't get to switch balls once the
ball is in play on a hole. And so those
are the considerations that they that they have to do.
And it is nuanced and subtle. You are talking about minor,
(09:13):
minuscule differences at the top echelon of the game, but
they can be differences that make a difference. And that's
where the genius of a great captain comes through. And
the greatest captaincy ever in my view, was two thousand
and eight Paul Asinger, where he achieved a victory for
(09:34):
the American team after they've been slacked a few in
a row. And he went after it in a kind
of a non golf traditional way. He brought in as
one of his top advisors a sports psychologist and matched
people up in the way and organized things in.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
The way that the US Navy Seals.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Organizes it's assault forces. And he went at it in
a very different way, but it was wildly successful.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Tell me about the reaction to the announcement that Keegan
was going to be the captain. You know, again, this
is the portion of our conversation where Paul Teacheres Spence
about golf. But it does seem like a lot of
people were surprised when it was Keegan who was named.
Is it because that he's a little bit younger? Is
it because he's still a really good player? Did it
(10:25):
feel like it was a make good for him being
left off and not being able to go to Rome.
It does feel like a lot of people were surprised
when it was announced that Keegan got the gig.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
Yeah, no question, And let me take the makeup for
Rome off the table, But all the other elements were
a part of it. Yeah, Keegan is very young, to
be a captain and Keegan is still a relevant player,
which he has totally proved, and he hadn't. He had
been an assistant captain on the President's Cup side, but
he hadn't he didn't have a whole bunch of experience.
(10:56):
What he has is a commitment to the Ryder Cup
and a fire for the Ryder Cup, a passion for
the Ryder Cup. And he also has a likability quotion
that is just so high that players on the tour
like Keegan Bradley. And that's been a fascinating thing to say,
(11:17):
because Keegan has gone around saying the biggest difference in
my life since being captain is I have gotten to
know and build relationships with people that I hadn't before.
And yet all the other players are saying, hey, we
always loved Keegan, we always thought he was great, and
so you put those two together and I think it
was a really good pick. And it's been fascinating to
(11:39):
see Keegan Bradley step into it and really become this
leading figure in the game in a way that you
just don't see for somebody who is still so young.
He's still got a lot of career left.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Read a piece on NBC Sports comparing Keegan to Paul
Mazinger and thousand and eight, Yeah you like dot com?
Speaker 4 (12:02):
I do, I do. I think. I think they're very
similar personalities, they're similar players. The one difference is Asinger
was was much older and certainly older in in not
only in life, but certainly older in his golf career.
When he was captain. Uh, he he was no longer
a relevant player in the way that Keegan Bradley still is.
(12:24):
But but take that difference aside, and they're they're standing
in the game. Their personality, they're they're both fiery people.
They both actually Asinger had more history in the Ryder Cup. Plus,
Asinger was involved in some of the Ryder Cup dust
ups in past years. He got, you know, face to
face with Sevi Bisteros, one of the one of the
(12:46):
Ryder Cups, and of course Seve is really on on
both sides. Sev is the oh the patron saint of
the Ryder Cup and and Aisinger got in his face
and said, hey, I'm not going to up with your gamesmanship.
And so I like the comparison. There are a couple
(13:06):
of differences, but I think they're very similar people.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
If this turns into an all out brawl, who wins.
I don't feel like the European team has very many
good fighters. Tommy Fleetwood couldn't fight his way out of
a wet paper bag. Rory's like five to two h
John Rahm and Ludwig's a big dude, steps a big dude.
I feel like, if it turns into it all out brawl,
we've got him.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Do you want a piece of Brexton Dave Shambeau?
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Actually yes, I think I think he's a fake tough guy. Actually,
you know what, I'm going to change my mind. I'm
looking at all our roster JJ Spahn Xander.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Yeah, I don't want JJ No, no, no.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
I actually think there are zero good fighters on both teams.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Golfers aren't fighters.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
Okay, No, this is a fun analysis. I actually haven't
spent a lot of time faking a bad Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
JT's not fighting anyone.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Mara Callo, No, no, Ben Griffin, Cam Young, there's no way,
can't let has ever even thrown.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
A punch, Paul, We're screwed. Now that I think about.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
It, I I do want maybe people to gang up
on John Rahm and hold his ankles.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
But yeah, that's that's an interesting way to think about it.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
Stance.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
I'm gonna have to give that some thought.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
We do have Gary Woodland as a vice captain, and
he is a former college basketball player.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
I feel like Gary can handle himself in a fight.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
Gary can handle himself in a fight. And he was
just acc colleague basketball player, you know he was. He
was a decorated big twelve player at KU. Yeah, and
he's a big dude. Yeah, he'd be he'd be just fine.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Okay, I can tell I'm making you uncomfortable, So let's
move on. What what what is so the role of
a vice captain? We got Jim Furick, we got Web Simpson, Brands, Neetteker,
Kevin Kissner, and the aforementioned Gary Woodland.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
What what uh?
Speaker 4 (14:51):
What?
Speaker 1 (14:52):
What is the role of a vice captain in a
Ryder Cup scenario?
Speaker 4 (14:56):
That is different for each of the of the Ryder Cup.
For each of the captains sees each of the captain's teams.
The captain will pick the vice captains and they generally
pick them four specific jobs and so it will be
something that Keegan Bradley assigns a specific captain to do
(15:18):
to to help with during the course of the of
the way things are flowing. It might be to walk
along with a player who needs some support. It might
be to keep track of certain statistical things. It might
be something in the team room, and the team room
(15:39):
that is a thank or sanct and pretty pretty, let
me say, secret place. Nobody knows very much about what
goes on in that team room, but that the captain
controls it and he might have something there. When he
picked Gary Woodland to be the the vice captain, my
first thought was, that's room stuff. Woodland is this tough guy.
(16:04):
He is a major championship winner, won the US Open
at Pebble Beach, and he is a recent cancer survivor.
This guy's tough and he can say, hey, I've looked
down a pretty dark path and I've come back. You
can go win this match. And I think that might
be exactly what Bradley wants Gary Woodland in the room for.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
All right, I want to ask you about a couple
of individual storylines here. I did not watch in Whistling
Straits in twenty twenty one, but we smoked them and
Scotty Bryson, Harris Xander, JT. Colin and Cantley were all
on that team and they combined for a record of
sixteen four and five. How much of the picks do
(16:48):
you believe or steeped in what happened in Whistling Straits.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
First of all, let's talk about the most important thing
that happened at Whistling Straits. That was the pick of
Scotty Scheffler, and then what happened with them. Scheffler was
picked on that team prior to him having become a
PGA Tour winner. He simply showed something that the captain's
team wanted on that team, and then they rolled him
(17:14):
out in singles against John Rahm, and Scheffler took him out.
That remains one of the real superlative Ryder Cup performances
in recent years when Scotty Scheffler beat John Rahm at
Whistling Straits. And I think that was Scotty Scheffler's coming
out party and that was the turning point in shot
(17:36):
Scotty Scheffler's career. Since then, he's been nearly untouchable. But
what you have coming out of Whistling Straits is the
experience of winning. And you know, we've talked about this
in different contexts. Let's go back to it again. Winning
is a skill. It must be learned, it must be acquired,
(17:58):
and it must be mastered. And that experience at having
won a Master's Cup, putting it back in the team room,
putting it back on the course, especially on Sunday afternoon
in singles, that matters, and I am just certain that
Keaton Bradley wanted to have some of that on his team.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Rory's an interesting case study all the time because he's
historically special and it's been a weird year in a
lot of ways because he has achieved history and also
behaved like a child. But as of late, he has
played some of the best golf that we've seen since
he was able to complete the career Grand Slam. Just
how much of an ace in the hole is Rory
McElroy for the Europeans.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
He scares me. Now, normally I'm a big Rory fan
and it's easy to cheer for him. But let's put
this in context. Rory has talked openly about what his
goal set is at this point in his career. It's
not money, says he doesn't even notice when things hit
on the Wednesday Direct deposit. It's not even wins, he says, Yeah,
(18:59):
I've won enough, he says, but there are there's a
handful of things that really matter to him. He wanted
to win the Masters and complete the career Grand Slam done.
He wants to win national championships. He thinks national championships matter.
He played in the Irish Open this year, something he
has done, hasn't done, hasn't always been there, but he
just went back because he's playing in national championships done.
(19:23):
The other thing he has really talked about is win
a Ryder Cup on US soil. That scares me a little.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
All right, let's move over here, because there are some,
you know, proven players, as we've discussed, there are also
some rookies. With Russell Henley, he has a three to
one record in the President's Cup that was twenty four.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
JJ Spahn is a US Open champ. Let's see.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
I think, oh, Ben Griffin as well, with very large sunglasses,
but he's had a great year. Cam My guy New
Yorker at home of the rookies, who are you most
confident in? And is there one that might concern you
a little bit?
Speaker 4 (20:09):
The one I'm most confident in is Ben Griffin. And
I'm not saying it because he's leading at Pro Core.
I'm saying, hey, look at who's leading at Pro Core.
Griffin has simply been on a SiZ He's got a
rock solid game and he's playing well. And look, these
top players in the world, when they are in form,
(20:29):
they're not going to lose. Nobody's going to beat him,
any of the twenty four players in this field. If
they are in form and on their game, they're going
to win. And it right now, Ben Griffin is informan
on his game.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Who do you favor?
Speaker 1 (20:44):
And how important really is is a home advantage when
it comes to Bethpage And as we discussed last week,
the US will have the ability to kind of cater
the course to the strengths of their players, which is something.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
I didn't even know it was a thing, and I
just learned it last week.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Look, as I'm asking this question, I continue to look
at this European roster with the way Tommy's played this year,
Rory at the top of his game. You know, Rom
overlive is not peak Rom, but if he finds that
thing that made him the most dominant golfer in the
world a couple of years ago, like they just feel
like they're stacked to me, but we're at home. So
before I move on to something else, who do you
(21:23):
favor right now? For the Ryder Cup that starts in
two weeks.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
Statistically, we have to favor the US because they are home.
This is a sporting event with one of the most
stark differentiators between home and away performance that you see
in across the whole spectrum of sports. And look, there's
you know, there's there's a slight advantage throughout sport to
a home field advantage, but it's bigger on the Ryder Cup.
(21:49):
Part of it is, as you just said, that the
home team sets up the golf course, and you know,
don't ever overlook that it's not publicized a lot, but
it matters. But this is a raucous, noisy event. This
is golf version of the World Cup. And when you
get a home team that, for whatever reason, the year
(22:11):
that it's in their nation, starts making a run in
the World Cup, they have a distinct advantage. And yet
that's what's built into the Ryder Cup. So statistically you
have to look at it and say that the US
team has an advantage. I look at the European team
and come to a similar conclusion. You do. This is
a really great team, but I'm not really spending my
(22:34):
time looking at the top players. I think the top
players toe to toe, you know, comparing our team to
their team are pretty dang similar. You have noted that
Captain Luke Donald did a great job with his captain's picks.
He did. When you start looking at players nine, ten, eleven,
(22:55):
twelve on the European team, I think the European team
is probably deeper than we are.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Well, cannot wait. It's gonna be a lot of fun, Paul.
What's coming up on the show tomorrow?
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Well, some great stuff. We're going to talk about a
remarkable event that took place at Riverside this week called
Cougar Day. It is a bi annual celebration of BYU
Men's golf and it's a reunion of BYU players over
the years, and this year, for whatever reason, so many
greats from BYU's history we're there. We're going to be
(23:30):
talking about that and playing some tape from that event,
and we will also be celebrating the Utah PGA champion,
the section championship that took place this week. Chris Moody
did a remarkable and historic thing. He won the Senior
Section championship last week, and he won the regular section
(23:52):
championship this week. First time that's ever happened.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
All right, Paul, thanks for the time, my friend to
have a great show with yatsoon.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
Thank you see it.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Spence Ryder Cup two weeks from today.
Friday, September twelfth, we are two weeks away, exactly two
weeks away from the start of the Ryder Cup at
Bethpage State Park in Farmingdale, New York. We got the
Pro Corps Championship. Yeah, that thing is going on right now,
but it is relevant because we have some Ryder Cup
players not just playing but playing well. And a local
(00:22):
guy in the top ten is Zach Blair seven hundred
par our. Next guest joins us on a weekly basis
to talk about the world of golf.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Paul Pugmyer. Happy Friday, sir, How are.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
You doing great?
Speaker 4 (00:32):
Doing great spence two weeks out, We're already vibrating. Yes,
fun stuff can't wait.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
And you know, I'm seeing Patrick Fishburne is actually having
himself a nice little tournament as well. So tell me
about the Pro Corp Championship. It's in NAPA at the
Silverado Resort. And obviously with the undercurrent of the World Cup,
excuse me, the Ryder Cup, World Cups in nine months,
the Ryder Cup in two weeks.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
It's good to see the majority of the field.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
As far as what I'm witnessing here in this tournament,
it sounds like Xander's wife is delivering a baby, so
he's with her.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
What you totally understand, But.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
It feels like this tournament has a little bit extra
gravitas as a result of the Ryder Cup coming up.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Yeah, yeah, no question.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
You know, the DP World Tour, the European Tour still
is completing its season long points and so all the
European Ryder Cup players are engaged involved in that because
they're basing the points. And all the Ryder Cup players
in America on the US team, of course, they don't
do that because Captain says, God, I want you play.
(01:37):
I want you tournament tough and getting reps in. So
come to pro Corp. And as you noted, Shoffley got
a pass because his wife is having a baby. And
obviously Deve Schambeau, Bryson Dey Shambau can be there because
he doesn't have qualif kitchens to play on the PGA Tour.
The other pen are there, and Kegan Bradley is there
(01:58):
and he's walking around talk looking to people. He's not playing.
He is in captain mode and it is just so
fun to see. You look at the top three players
on the leaderboard and they all share a characteristic Oh yeah,
they're on the Ryder Cup team.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
So last time around, only Justin Thomas and Max Homa
played the Pro Corp ahead of the twenty twenty three
Ryder Cup and we all remember what happened there as
the Europeans just curb stopped us.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
It was not even close.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Do you think do you think that lesson is kind
of tied into the decision making of these ten players
to play that or do you think it was Keegan
kind of encouraging them to not just play but be together, right,
because that's a big portion of what the Ryder Cup
is about.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Building the camaraderie and the team aspect of it, no question,
is a benefit. But it's equally no question that the
lesson was learned that the American players went in flat
because they had been off for three or four weeks
and they they weren't game ready. And where that really
showed up was in Friday morning four ball. We got
(03:07):
smoked and we were flat and the matches weren't even close.
They didn't nothing got to eighteen and bam were down
four points to start with and never really recovered from there.
And so so yeah, the lesson was learned and there's
no question that not going to repeat that mistake.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
So when it comes to just simply the dynamic of
utilizing the world number one, Okay, so that I've listened
to a couple of interviews in a couple of pods
previewing the Ryder Cup, and they've all honed in on Yeah,
and we talked about this last week, Like, honestly, on paper,
I feel like the Europeans might have more talent. I
just thought, you know, I thought Lucas knocked out of
(03:51):
the park when it came to his selections.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
That's a really, really dangerous team. But we have that dude.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
We have the one guy that every player included, and
Rory has said, when I show up to a tournament,
I know I've got to beat Scotty.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
How do we utilize him best?
Speaker 3 (04:08):
What a great question.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
And I'm gonna I'm going to see you and raise
you before I address Scotty. I think we've got two dudes.
I think that Dave Chambeau is a person who is
big enough in personality and in mental strength and big
enough in his game to overpower the black course at
that page and to overpower an opponent. And I think
(04:31):
that we've really got two alpha horses in this whole event.
That is a whole bunch of alpha players. But in
terms of Scotti Scheffler, it's been so fascinating to watch
him this the first two rounds at pro corp he
is clearly scraping it. He is clearly leaving shots out there.
(04:53):
He is clearly frustrated. And yet where is he. He's
in the top ten, and he knows and everybody else
knows that he will learn what he needs to learn.
He'll make the correction and he'll be ready at Beth
Page and you better look out.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
So Scotty did some media prior to the start of
this tournament and he himself talked about how he's changed
his preparation. He have two matches and lost to So
he left Rome without winning a single match and for
the first time. And look, I love Scotty, what's not
to love. But he sometimes can come across as a
little robotic, and you know, he showed some real emotion.
(05:32):
He was in tears after you know, the the Rome
match was essentially settled, and he knew that he was
getting on that plane without winning one match. Do you
have any insight on this different preparation that he's already
talked about to make sure that we don't see what
we saw in Rome.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Scotty has a real interesting duality to his character, to
his personality. He is not flamboyant. He is he is
not carry but he has a deep, white hot fire
in his soul to compete at this game, and not
(06:10):
only to compete, but to to dominate, dominate the golf course,
dominate too. Ever in his way that he needs to
dominate to play to win. Scotty has a deep fire
and it gets lost sometimes because he's a genuinely nice
man and and genuinely soft spoken, and like I say,
(06:35):
he just he's he's not charismatic. He's not gonna gonna
get a TV show. You're going to get a sitcom
and make it work. But holy cow, he will play
the game and he will step on your throat and
twist his spikes and then move on to the next hole.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Help me understand the process that Keegan and other captains
have to go through and how it works when they
select certain golfers for certain formats when it comes to
the Ryder Cup, whether it's paying them together based off
of past results or maybe trying something new if things
haven't worked, Like what really is on Keegan and his
assistant captain's plates when they're going through the process of
(07:18):
selecting which players match which format based off of form
or history or whatever.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
That looks like what a great question. And the reality is,
once you get to the golf course and once we're
ready to start play, that is the biggest thing left,
maybe the only thing left, that a captain has to
affect the outcome. First of all, just a little context here.
(07:45):
The format by which pairings are made in the Ryder
Cup is different from the format by which pairings are
made in the President's Cup. In the President's Cup, the
captains get together in a live public press conference and
they go back and forth. They say, match one, here's
my guys, Okay, who are you putting up against them? Okay,
match to the person who went second, now goes first.
(08:06):
Here's my guys, who are you putting up against them?
And it's it's like a reciprocal draft, back and forth,
and it's really cool to watch. In the Ryder Cup,
the captains fill out the lineup card the way a
baseball manager fills out a lineup card, and then the
way baseball managers will go to home plate before the
game and exchange lineup cards. That's what the captains do,
(08:28):
and so there's a whole bunch of three D chess
going on. You have to match the personalities, You have
to match the game strength to the format of that
match's format. Is it alternate ball, is it is it
the four ball, or is it you know, how does
that play out? You have to consider what golf ball
(08:49):
they play. If it's alternate ball and you've got one
of your guys playing titleists and the other guy playing callaway,
is that going to affect the play of one or
the other. And that's something you talk to them about
out because they don't get to switch balls once the
ball is in play on a hole. And so those
are the considerations that they that they have to do.
And it is nuanced and subtle. You are talking about minor,
(09:13):
minuscule differences at the top echelon of the game, but
they can be differences that make a difference. And that's
where the genius of a great captain comes through. And
the greatest captaincy ever in my view, was two thousand
and eight Paul Asinger, where he achieved a victory for
(09:34):
the American team after they've been slacked a few in
a row. And he went after it in a kind
of a non golf traditional way. He brought in as
one of his top advisors a sports psychologist and matched
people up in the way and organized things in.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
The way that the US Navy Seals.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Organizes it's assault forces. And he went at it in
a very different way, but it was wildly successful.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Tell me about the reaction to the announcement that Keegan
was going to be the captain. You know, again, this
is the portion of our conversation where Paul Teacheres Spence
about golf. But it does seem like a lot of
people were surprised when it was Keegan who was named.
Is it because that he's a little bit younger? Is
it because he's still a really good player? Did it
(10:25):
feel like it was a make good for him being
left off and not being able to go to Rome.
It does feel like a lot of people were surprised
when it was announced that Keegan got the gig.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
Yeah, no question, And let me take the makeup for
Rome off the table, But all the other elements were
a part of it. Yeah, Keegan is very young, to
be a captain and Keegan is still a relevant player,
which he has totally proved, and he hadn't. He had
been an assistant captain on the President's Cup side, but
he hadn't he didn't have a whole bunch of experience.
(10:56):
What he has is a commitment to the Ryder Cup
and a fire for the Ryder Cup, a passion for
the Ryder Cup. And he also has a likability quotion
that is just so high that players on the tour
like Keegan Bradley. And that's been a fascinating thing to say,
(11:17):
because Keegan has gone around saying the biggest difference in
my life since being captain is I have gotten to
know and build relationships with people that I hadn't before.
And yet all the other players are saying, hey, we
always loved Keegan, we always thought he was great, and
so you put those two together and I think it
was a really good pick. And it's been fascinating to
(11:39):
see Keegan Bradley step into it and really become this
leading figure in the game in a way that you
just don't see for somebody who is still so young.
He's still got a lot of career left.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Read a piece on NBC Sports comparing Keegan to Paul
Mazinger and thousand and eight, Yeah you like dot com?
Speaker 4 (12:02):
I do, I do. I think. I think they're very
similar personalities, they're similar players. The one difference is Asinger
was was much older and certainly older in in not
only in life, but certainly older in his golf career.
When he was captain. Uh, he he was no longer
a relevant player in the way that Keegan Bradley still is.
(12:24):
But but take that difference aside, and they're they're standing
in the game. Their personality, they're they're both fiery people.
They both actually Asinger had more history in the Ryder Cup. Plus,
Asinger was involved in some of the Ryder Cup dust
ups in past years. He got, you know, face to
face with Sevi Bisteros, one of the one of the
(12:46):
Ryder Cups, and of course Seve is really on on
both sides. Sev is the oh the patron saint of
the Ryder Cup and and Aisinger got in his face
and said, hey, I'm not going to up with your gamesmanship.
And so I like the comparison. There are a couple
(13:06):
of differences, but I think they're very similar people.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
If this turns into an all out brawl, who wins.
I don't feel like the European team has very many
good fighters. Tommy Fleetwood couldn't fight his way out of
a wet paper bag. Rory's like five to two h
John Rahm and Ludwig's a big dude, steps a big dude.
I feel like, if it turns into it all out brawl,
we've got him.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Do you want a piece of Brexton Dave Shambeau?
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Actually yes, I think I think he's a fake tough guy. Actually,
you know what, I'm going to change my mind. I'm
looking at all our roster JJ Spahn Xander.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Yeah, I don't want JJ No, no, no.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
I actually think there are zero good fighters on both teams.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Golfers aren't fighters.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
Okay, No, this is a fun analysis. I actually haven't
spent a lot of time faking a bad Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
JT's not fighting anyone.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Mara Callo, No, no, Ben Griffin, Cam Young, there's no way,
can't let has ever even thrown.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
A punch, Paul, We're screwed. Now that I think about.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
It, I I do want maybe people to gang up
on John Rahm and hold his ankles.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
But yeah, that's that's an interesting way to think about it.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
Stance.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
I'm gonna have to give that some thought.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
We do have Gary Woodland as a vice captain, and
he is a former college basketball player.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
I feel like Gary can handle himself in a fight.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
Gary can handle himself in a fight. And he was
just acc colleague basketball player, you know he was. He
was a decorated big twelve player at KU. Yeah, and
he's a big dude. Yeah, he'd be he'd be just fine.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Okay, I can tell I'm making you uncomfortable, So let's
move on. What what what is so the role of
a vice captain? We got Jim Furick, we got Web Simpson, Brands, Neetteker,
Kevin Kissner, and the aforementioned Gary Woodland.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
What what uh?
Speaker 4 (14:51):
What?
Speaker 1 (14:52):
What is the role of a vice captain in a
Ryder Cup scenario?
Speaker 4 (14:56):
That is different for each of the of the Ryder Cup.
For each of the captains sees each of the captain's teams.
The captain will pick the vice captains and they generally
pick them four specific jobs and so it will be
something that Keegan Bradley assigns a specific captain to do
(15:18):
to to help with during the course of the of
the way things are flowing. It might be to walk
along with a player who needs some support. It might
be to keep track of certain statistical things. It might
be something in the team room, and the team room
(15:39):
that is a thank or sanct and pretty pretty, let
me say, secret place. Nobody knows very much about what
goes on in that team room, but that the captain
controls it and he might have something there. When he
picked Gary Woodland to be the the vice captain, my
first thought was, that's room stuff. Woodland is this tough guy.
(16:04):
He is a major championship winner, won the US Open
at Pebble Beach, and he is a recent cancer survivor.
This guy's tough and he can say, hey, I've looked
down a pretty dark path and I've come back. You
can go win this match. And I think that might
be exactly what Bradley wants Gary Woodland in the room for.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
All right, I want to ask you about a couple
of individual storylines here. I did not watch in Whistling
Straits in twenty twenty one, but we smoked them and
Scotty Bryson, Harris Xander, JT. Colin and Cantley were all
on that team and they combined for a record of
sixteen four and five. How much of the picks do
(16:48):
you believe or steeped in what happened in Whistling Straits.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
First of all, let's talk about the most important thing
that happened at Whistling Straits. That was the pick of
Scotty Scheffler, and then what happened with them. Scheffler was
picked on that team prior to him having become a
PGA Tour winner. He simply showed something that the captain's
team wanted on that team, and then they rolled him
(17:14):
out in singles against John Rahm, and Scheffler took him out.
That remains one of the real superlative Ryder Cup performances
in recent years when Scotty Scheffler beat John Rahm at
Whistling Straits. And I think that was Scotty Scheffler's coming
out party and that was the turning point in shot
(17:36):
Scotty Scheffler's career. Since then, he's been nearly untouchable. But
what you have coming out of Whistling Straits is the
experience of winning. And you know, we've talked about this
in different contexts. Let's go back to it again. Winning
is a skill. It must be learned, it must be acquired,
(17:58):
and it must be mastered. And that experience at having
won a Master's Cup, putting it back in the team room,
putting it back on the course, especially on Sunday afternoon
in singles, that matters, and I am just certain that
Keaton Bradley wanted to have some of that on his team.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Rory's an interesting case study all the time because he's
historically special and it's been a weird year in a
lot of ways because he has achieved history and also
behaved like a child. But as of late, he has
played some of the best golf that we've seen since
he was able to complete the career Grand Slam. Just
how much of an ace in the hole is Rory
McElroy for the Europeans.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
He scares me. Now, normally I'm a big Rory fan
and it's easy to cheer for him. But let's put
this in context. Rory has talked openly about what his
goal set is at this point in his career. It's
not money, says he doesn't even notice when things hit
on the Wednesday Direct deposit. It's not even wins, he says, Yeah,
(18:59):
I've won enough, he says, but there are there's a
handful of things that really matter to him. He wanted
to win the Masters and complete the career Grand Slam done.
He wants to win national championships. He thinks national championships matter.
He played in the Irish Open this year, something he
has done, hasn't done, hasn't always been there, but he
just went back because he's playing in national championships done.
(19:23):
The other thing he has really talked about is win
a Ryder Cup on US soil. That scares me a little.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
All right, let's move over here, because there are some,
you know, proven players, as we've discussed, there are also
some rookies. With Russell Henley, he has a three to
one record in the President's Cup that was twenty four.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
JJ Spahn is a US Open champ. Let's see.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
I think, oh, Ben Griffin as well, with very large sunglasses,
but he's had a great year. Cam My guy New
Yorker at home of the rookies, who are you most
confident in? And is there one that might concern you
a little bit?
Speaker 4 (20:09):
The one I'm most confident in is Ben Griffin. And
I'm not saying it because he's leading at Pro Core.
I'm saying, hey, look at who's leading at Pro Core.
Griffin has simply been on a SiZ He's got a
rock solid game and he's playing well. And look, these
top players in the world, when they are in form,
(20:29):
they're not going to lose. Nobody's going to beat him,
any of the twenty four players in this field. If
they are in form and on their game, they're going
to win. And it right now, Ben Griffin is informan
on his game.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Who do you favor?
Speaker 1 (20:44):
And how important really is is a home advantage when
it comes to Bethpage And as we discussed last week,
the US will have the ability to kind of cater
the course to the strengths of their players, which is something.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
I didn't even know it was a thing, and I
just learned it last week.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Look, as I'm asking this question, I continue to look
at this European roster with the way Tommy's played this year,
Rory at the top of his game. You know, Rom
overlive is not peak Rom, but if he finds that
thing that made him the most dominant golfer in the
world a couple of years ago, like they just feel
like they're stacked to me, but we're at home. So
before I move on to something else, who do you
(21:23):
favor right now? For the Ryder Cup that starts in
two weeks.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
Statistically, we have to favor the US because they are home.
This is a sporting event with one of the most
stark differentiators between home and away performance that you see
in across the whole spectrum of sports. And look, there's
you know, there's there's a slight advantage throughout sport to
a home field advantage, but it's bigger on the Ryder Cup.
(21:49):
Part of it is, as you just said, that the
home team sets up the golf course, and you know,
don't ever overlook that it's not publicized a lot, but
it matters. But this is a raucous, noisy event. This
is golf version of the World Cup. And when you
get a home team that, for whatever reason, the year
(22:11):
that it's in their nation, starts making a run in
the World Cup, they have a distinct advantage. And yet
that's what's built into the Ryder Cup. So statistically you
have to look at it and say that the US
team has an advantage. I look at the European team
and come to a similar conclusion. You do. This is
a really great team, but I'm not really spending my
(22:34):
time looking at the top players. I think the top
players toe to toe, you know, comparing our team to
their team are pretty dang similar. You have noted that
Captain Luke Donald did a great job with his captain's picks.
He did. When you start looking at players nine, ten, eleven,
(22:55):
twelve on the European team, I think the European team
is probably deeper than we are.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Well, cannot wait. It's gonna be a lot of fun, Paul.
What's coming up on the show tomorrow?
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Well, some great stuff. We're going to talk about a
remarkable event that took place at Riverside this week called
Cougar Day. It is a bi annual celebration of BYU
Men's golf and it's a reunion of BYU players over
the years, and this year, for whatever reason, so many
greats from BYU's history we're there. We're going to be
(23:30):
talking about that and playing some tape from that event,
and we will also be celebrating the Utah PGA champion,
the section championship that took place this week. Chris Moody
did a remarkable and historic thing. He won the Senior
Section championship last week, and he won the regular section
(23:52):
championship this week. First time that's ever happened.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
All right, Paul, thanks for the time, my friend to
have a great show with yatsoon.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
Thank you see it.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Spence Ryder Cup two weeks from today.
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