December 10, 2025 • 44 mins
Catch “The Drive with Spence Checketts” from 2 pm to 6 pm weekdays on ESPN 700 & 92.1 FM. Produced by Porter Larsen. The latest on the Utah Jazz, Real Salt Lake, Utes, BYU + more sports storylines.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Several private equity experts on the show. Today, the business
of college football and college athletics is covered by Matt Brown,
probably on a higher level than maybe anybody doing it.
He is the editor of Extra Points. It's a newsletter
that I used is to prepare for the show.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
He's going to stop by.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
My brother Andrew Checketts, who's also a private equity bro
and has been for about twenty years, will join us
live in studio. Jake Murphy, who has some thoughts that
he's been sharing on social media about the new partnership
that Utah has with Ultro Capital, will join us. But
our first guest is probably the biggest private equity expert
that we could find in the state.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Richard Smith. Smitty, how are you, sir Spence?
Speaker 4 (00:44):
This is great? You know, this is like.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
The other night when I went to see Nate Borgatzi
at the Delta Center. Was a fun show. He's stand
up comedian. For people who don't know.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Who he is, honey guy, and he had he was
coming out to.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Do his show, and he had he had four other
comedians before him come out and do a little you know,
five minutes, ten minute stick whatever that thing was. And
he's trying to give them a boost or whatever, you know.
And uh, and that's what So that's what you got here.
This is like, you know, let's get let's get Richard
Smith on because he doesn't know anything about this stuff,
(01:23):
so he'll be like the new you know, new guy.
Will give him a little a little pop, you know,
as the opener, then kick him off the stage so
we can get the headliners on.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
And and I see what's going on. This is this
is the way it is.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
You know, you have to when you're in this business,
you have to be able to have the ability to
just call it the way it is. And that's the
way it is. So okay, I you know that's that's
not a problem for me.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Well the way it is.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
You are an expert, certainly in professional sports where you
spent for decades. And at this point, I mean there
are a lot of people that are panicked about this
and private act what he has been on the way
for a while. Does it feel like at this point
everything is out the window and they're really like, what's
the line of delineation between pro sports and college sports?
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Now?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Is there any at this point?
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Well, you know, the hard part is Spencer is the
way that it's going right now, you know, the institutions
are in my opinion, it's all my opinion now just
from where I sit up in the twenty seventh row
of the games now and looking down they it just
seems like they're getting further and further away from what
the actual intent or purpose of their institution is, which
(02:36):
is these these places are are places of palaces of
higher education, higher learning, and you're supposed to go there
to be able to learn and figure out what you
want to do with your life and to be a
better person and be a young person who young adult
who comes out on the other end of four years,
(02:58):
five years in some case like yourself, eight years, you know,
to graduate whatever, and which is okay, you know, But
that's that is the purpose of these schools.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Now it's gotten the sports part of it.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
And let's let's be honest, mens, this is all about
football and men's basketball at ninety eight percent of the institutions.
It has nothing to do with the men's tennis team,
has nothing to do with the women's swim team, or
or any of the other athletic and endeavors at each
school decides to be part of. This is all about
(03:33):
the revenue generating sports, and it's about selling sponsorships, it's
about selling tickets, it's about getting people into seats uh
to to to to buy a hot dog and an
overpriced beer or coke, whatever it is to be able
to fund what they what they're you know, really fronting
(03:54):
as part of the amateur athletic endeavor of the institution.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
And it's just getting further and further out of whack.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
And instead of going against the grain and schools standing
up and going, wait a minute, now, is this what
we're supposed to be all about. Everybody is just jumping
on that boat that's going down the rapids very quickly
and decided to instead of swimming against the tide, I'm
just gonna get on that boat and go wherever it
(04:24):
takes me. And you know, and I got to try
and do whatever I can to keep my head above water.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
And so that's what we're gonna do.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
So if we have to go against BYU financially in
the case of Utah, we have to go against Texas
Tech as we've seen this fall in football, financially, we
are going we have decided we're going to get in
into that business and we're going to try and swim
with those sharks. And to me, it's really I don't
(04:52):
know it. Just the whole thing boggles my mind that
it's gotten to this point very very quickly.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Few things you know, in reference to BYU, they have
the ultimate private equity fund in the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter day Saints.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
They don't need to do this.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
They also have several very deep pocketed boosters and donors
that love BYU Athletics and are fine donating millions and
millions of dollars without any sort of return because they
love BYU. And then they're members of the church, so
they want the message of the church furthered. So BYU
has a built in advantage that UTAH simply didn't have.
(05:33):
Texas Tech has oil money with Cody Campbell and his
powerful network, Texas Tech doesn't need to do something like this.
Utah had to find an answer. Smitty, your points are
well taken, and I'm not going to push back on
any of them other than you know, the sanctity of
amateurism has long been put to rest, certainly at least
for five years when NIL became a reality and the
(05:55):
transfer portal became a reality, and now they have at
least curtailed the transfer portal to one point of the
calendar instead of letting people walk all the time.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Which was just nuts.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
But if Utah didn't do this, I'm not sure what
was out there for them to keep up with everybody
else in college athletics. You know, the SEC and the
Big Ten have much better TV payouts per member institution
because their TV deals are more valuable, and it's simple
because of what more people watching those games. So they
go to ESPN, they go to Fox, they get a
(06:25):
better TV deal. So the Big ten, the SEC schools
get a better TV payout than the Big twelve schools
Texas Tech with oil money BYU with the church backing them,
and then they're powerful boosters and donors that have already
proven that they're ready to step up to the table.
And I don't know that Utah could have waited, like
it felt very prescient for them to find a solution.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Here is this the best solution? I can't answer that.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
I mean, this is very similar to what the Big
ten brought to the table to their member institutions and
the Big Ten. Example is how he started the show
it College Football or college athletics does not have a
revenue problem.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
They have a spending problem.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
The Big Ten killed the old Big East as you
and I knew it, which was a great basketball conference,
still a fine basketball conference, but a good football conference,
not a great one. Then they went out west and
took la you know, the second biggest TV market in America.
They grabbed Maryland because they wanted the Northeast footprint. They
grabbed Nebraska from the Big Twelve so they could have
(07:26):
a championship game in the name of revenue.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
And guess what, they don't have any money.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Yeah, So they tried to consummate this private equity deal
and Michigan, because of their twenty billion dollars endown it,
said no. And Michigan's president said something. Then when I
read it this morning, really took suit out to me.
He said, anyone that gets in the private equity business,
you are taking a pay day loan, and that loan
is going to come due. But other than this avenue,
(07:52):
what other direction could Utah have gone?
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Well, look, Spence, you have to have the the the
intestinal fortitude to decide what you want to be and
what what you want. The institution that that you work
for to represent you could be they could very well
if they wanted to.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
They could be. Uh.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Saint Francis from last spring in Pennsylvania, who who who
won their their their conference right in men's basketball, went
to the first round. The NCAAA got pounded because it
weren't you know, on that level athletically. But but they
made the tournament. And then the week after the tournament
they make an announcement that we're getting out of this business.
(08:35):
This does not make sense for what our institution is about.
And and and I'm sure there's a large part of
it where they looked at it and said, we just
can't keep up with the Joneses. So we're gonna get
out and we're gonna, you know, to use a poor analogy,
we're going to move out of the neighborhood and move into,
you know, a lesser neighborhood somewhere because we can't keep
(08:58):
up with it and what everybody around us is doing.
We have to concentrate on what we're here for, which
is the academic pursuit of our students and the education
of them, uh to to go forward in the world. Obviously,
you know, big money sports has infiltrated athletics.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Now, in in in in the university setting all over
the country. Everybody wants to be part of that. It's
a raw, raw feeling. It's making your alumni feel good. Uh.
Nobody really rallies around the mathematics or the engineering department
when they make huge research discoveries.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
Or whatever that might change the world.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
But they do at the Saturday night basketball game, right,
and so whatever that is in our in our culture,
in our society, that's that's the way people respond. And
the universities have said, we're going to follow that and
we're going to go down that stream to try and
and uh and stay above water and try and compete.
(10:02):
That's what Utah is doing. My my take on it, Spence,
is this is simply, while it's a it's a forward
thinking move by by the University of Utah to do this, uh,
the way they're doing it looks.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
To me, uh and and and you're exactly right.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
I'm not I'm not a private equity guy, and I'm
not a finance guy and all that. But it just
looks and feels like what they're doing is trying to
figure out how we can take care of this at
this moment. And figure out how we can stay with
the big dogs at this moment in time, knowing that
five six, seven years from now the landscape might change,
(10:44):
we might have to switch to Plan B or D
or F or whatever it's going to be. And what
we're doing now is just kicking that can down the
road so that we can survive at the moment in
the in the realm that we're in right now, and
then and five years from now, there'll be other rules
and there'll be other changes to the landscape, and then
(11:07):
we'll have to figure out what those rules are and
how to respond to them at that time. But today
we're doing this to try and figure out how we
can stay with all the other big boys on that platform.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Yeah, and so to answer the question of what this
is going to look like and then kind of understand
how it will be executed. There will be a seven
member board of directors. Mark Harlan will be the chair
of that board. There will be three other seats that
will be a part of the Utah Athletic Ecosystem or
(11:43):
the university. I don't know if Taylor Randall is taking
one of those seats. My guess is, well, my hope
is that the answer is yes, because I really trust
Taylor and I think he's a really bright guy. So
you got Mark Harlin. You've got three other seats that
belong to Utah people. You have two seats that belong
to Outro Capital, and then you have one seat that
(12:04):
will go to a local business person that is invested
into this new company, which is Utah Brands and Entertainment LLC.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
I don't know who that person would be.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
My guess is you're gonna hear the Echos, You're gonna
hear Huntsman, You're gonna hear Garf. You know, you're gonna
hear a lot of the names that you would expect.
And then there's going to be a president who is
going to run Utah Brands and Entertainment LLC that reports
to the board, and then once a year, the board
has to report to the Utah Board of Trustees. So
the reason why this is pertinent, Smitty, is that the
(12:37):
the the controlling stake of the new company does belong
to the university, and then the decision making as it
pertains to scheduling and hiring and firing coaches remains in
the lap of Mark Harlan. So that I mean most
private equity companies. And by the way, Outro has the
We've got three different companies in their portfolio where they
(12:59):
bought control interest.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Their mo up to this point.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Has you got to give us at least fifty one
percent and the majority of board seats. This is the
first investment where they have not bought controlling percentages and
they don't have the majority of the seats on the board.
And even Charlie Baker, the president of the NCAA, was
asked about this at the Sports Business Journal Intercollegiate Athletics
Forum last night and he called it a really.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Well thought out and well designed plan.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
So I bring all that up because if there is
a piece of good news here, because I think people
have this vision in their head that a bunch of
New York finance bros. Are about to come out here
and change everything. No, the decision making process is still
the same and it really is up to Mark and Taylor,
and they maintain controlling stakes here.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
So that's good news.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
And what's going to happen spences how they make those decisions,
whether it's coaches they hire, whether it's those coaches and
the people who work with them on their staff UH
can recruit student athletes to come in that are going
to keep them competitive and keep them on a national landscape,
(14:09):
so to speak. In the next several years. Then Outro
Capital is gonna be standing on the sideline going, hey, hey,
that's a good job. Hey, way to go with that
and whatever, and they're gonna be waiting to you know,
from their perspective, this is this is strict, this is
this isn't about you know, the the rah rah and
kumbaya of the University of Utah Athletics and being a
(14:33):
booster and a fan or whatever. Otro Capital is in
this for one reason, and that's to make money at
the end of the day. And so they're gonna hope
that the U can make good decisions, can can have
their programs on the upper echelon and and be competitive
on a national landscape so that when the time comes
(14:54):
for Outro Capital to exit out the side door, they
can say, well, we were gonna sell off our equity
stake back to you for X amount of profit.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
That's what they're in this for.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
They believe, obviously on some level, that the University of
Utah can help them achieve that goal, and that's what
they're in it for and it gives the you that
capital investment up front right away now so that they
can try and make decisions going forward that they think
are going to benefit their overall athletic department.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah, and you and I were talking about this off air,
and I want to be clear here, we're just discussing
possibilities and potential ramifications based off of certain dynamics, a
lot of which are still not public. University of Utah
is a publicly owned institution tax exempt status now being
run for profit with this side LLC. Penny for your thoughts,
(15:52):
state legislators, I mean, I don't know how you know,
I don't know how the people that run our state
politically feel about this yet.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
I'd love to hear from them.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Yeah, and that's going to be I would think something
that they already thought of. I would assume something that
they've they've got lined up in terms of how they
make sure they address that issue. Look, we just saw
in the last couple of months on the on the
NCAA football landscape, what was going down in the state
(16:19):
of Louisiana with a public institution like LSU Louisiana State
University in Baton rouge and when they fired their football coach,
and the football coach had a fifty three million dollar
buy out in his contract if he got fired without cause.
There was a little scuttle but about that. The governor
(16:40):
got involved in it to say, you know, this is
awful whatever, you know. So now you had you had
the governor of the state of Louisiana weighing in on
what the athletic department at LSU is doing, so to
go so far as to say, yeah, the athletic director
who set that up, he didn't know what he was doing,
you know whatever. And since then he left and they
(17:00):
put in a guy who'd been there for a while,
but someone else is now in that seat, and now
they bring in Lane Kiffin and have the whole thing
set up even more so in that regard, if you're
following college football at all and the Lane Kiffin soap opera,
but that's their state government overseeing or at least making
(17:22):
public comments about how they're running their football program, you
have to assume that the Utah State Legislature is going
to be really looking at this closely, because you're exactly right.
It starts addressing the issue of what your tax exempt
status is as a public institution and what that means
(17:44):
for the people in the state of Utah.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
And what we can't run from, whether we try to
spin this is really good news today or talk about
the potential benefits down the road, is what private equity
is about and the one thing that they care about
no matter what, whether it's sports or hotels or restaurants
or whatever. I have a friend who text to me
who was working for a local real estate app company
(18:09):
and they found this lane where they were doing really well.
And guess what happened. Private equity said, Oh wait, they're
making some money. We're going to give them I don't know,
X million dollars to continue their growth, and then we're
going to come in and we're going to fire everybody
and make sure expenses are cut in the name of
revenue growing. So when we sell you off, we have
made money. That's all they want to do. So we
(18:31):
have to be very clear about that. We cannot run
from that. And to back up what I said earlier,
where college sports does not have a revenue problem, they
have a spending problem. We actually have numbers here where
last year Utah Athletics brought in one hundred and nine
million dollars in revenue. Any business that brings one hundred
and nine million dollars in revenue, you would think is
(18:52):
in a good spot. Problem is expenses about one hundred
and twenty five MILI. They were roughly seventeen million dollars
in debt last year and the non revenue generating sports
cost them seventeen million dollars right now. So it's fair
to ask what does this mean for soccer and tennis,
in swimming and track and field. The interesting dynamic here
(19:15):
and I don't know the answer this. Taylor Randall is
going to join us in studio next week, so maybe
you can shed some light on this. The Utah Brands
and Entertainment LLC, the offshoot company that's a partnership between
Utah and OTRO. Their new pe partners only includes football, basketball,
and gymnastics. It does not include these other sports. So
I'm caught in between whether or not that means the
(19:36):
other sports are safe and bankrolled by this entity, or
will OTRO come in with their accountants that don't give
a rip about Utah Soccer and say line item in
the red gone. I don't know how that's gonna shake out.
I think that's something that will be interesting to see
over time.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Yeah, I think Spence they're gonna concentrate on the big
boys sport and for you and every school is a
little bit different. Most schools over around the football program
and the men's basketball program as the big revenue producers
here at the University of Utah, not a great revenue producer,
(20:16):
I don't believe. But the other big ticket item, as
it's been for years at the on the University of
Utah campus, has been women's gymnastics. And that's the one
that brings in eight, ten, twelve thousand fans for each
one of their their their meets.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
No other none of their other sports do that.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Even when women's softball was having their big run a
couple of years ago, and everybody's getting on board with that.
You you know, I went, I went to several of
the games they had because that's all they could fit,
you know, maybe fifteen hundred, maybe two thousand, you know,
fans jamming the outfield, you know, area to be able
(20:55):
to support them. You know, the women's volleyball program which
has been very competitive and recent years under Beth l Naire,
you know, they can only get a limited amount of
people unless they go into the Huntsman Center for big matches,
which they've done from time to time, but that's those
sports are all going to be affected by how the
bigger programs, the money producing programs do and how that
(21:19):
money gets into the coffers for them.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
ESPN seven hundred and the Rocky Mountain Chevy Dealers and
value to help those at the road home this holiday
season with needed blankets, coats, shoes, hats and gloves. Drop
off donations at any Rocky Mountain Chevy dealer. Visit ESPN
seven hundred sports dot com for dealer locations, spread the
warmth and help others find their way home and join
us at the Midvale Road Home. Media thon December eighteenth
(21:44):
through the nineteenth. One more segment with Smitty coming up
on the other side. Is it NBA Cup Night?
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Is the second night of NBA Cup Quarter Final? Come on, Spence,
you know this well, No, I really know, because I
know you were riveted last night to.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
The TV, but there was different energy about it, and.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
I know you spent half an hour trying to find
the one game on Prime Video.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Started, So I don't know, Maybe do some NBA on
the show Today on the station Today. Michigan has fired
Sharon Moore. He has been terminated with cause, effective immediately,
following a university investigation. Credible evidence was found that Sharon
Moore engaged in an inappropriate relationship with a staff member,
(22:27):
and the conduct, according to his contract, constitutes a clear
violation of university policy, as the University of Michigan maintains
zero tolerance for such behavior. So being fired fired for cause,
of course, not only means he doesn't have a job anymore,
but I would imagine, like all college coaches, he has
a massive biout clause that will not be executed. So
(22:50):
that is a very expensive mistake for Sharon Moore, who
Smittie is now out of a job.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Yeah, and you know, in a very good coach, and
the interviews I've seen with him the last few years
seems it seemed like a really uh, stand up guy
and and uh a good coach to take over for
Jim Hardball when he left Michigan. And it's it's just,
you know, it's very disappointing if if that's what the
(23:16):
case was, that that something like that happened, and and
that he let his you know, his personal emotions get
in the way of you know, a very growing and
burgeon owning college football coaching career that he that he
had with one of the premier institutions in the country.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Yeah, no, it's it's really unfortunate.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Uh So Sharon Moore is now out of a job
and uh ultimately uh will not receive any portion of
his buyout. All right, we were talking smittee of course
last segment about this historic partnership between Utah Athletics and
Outrow Private Equity out of New York.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
When it comes to the concern so the one.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Well, there are a lot of questions, but one thing
that we just don't know is how this is going
to change the consumer experience for just your average Joe
fan because they're according to the reports in the New
York Times, the Athletic has a really good piece that
was released kind of right off after we were signing
off air Matt Baker, Justin William Stewart Mandel, there's the
(24:23):
Ross Dellinger piece as well. Dan Wetsley ESPN has got involved.
So what we understand based off the reporting is there
is a portion of this community that has been allowed
to invest in the new company. This Utah Brands and
Entertainment LLC, which of course is the new company that
Utah has partnered with OTRO to create. And then there's
a portion of Utah donors and investors that have been
(24:46):
allowed to buy pieces of equity in this.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
I don't know who they are.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
I don't know, you know, if there's a certain criteria
about how much money yet I would imagine there was
a certain threshold that had to be met. One thing
I can tell you when to come to private equity
getting involved is typically things change. Things change with the stadium,
things change with the arena, things change with the consumer experience.
I mean, look Ryan Smith, his VC, you know, private
(25:12):
equity bros By the Jazz from the Millers. Initially he
was like, yeah, we don't think we're going to change
very much, and they just went ahead and change everything,
including a lot of changes with the building, including a
lot of changes with the consumer experience, and then changing
the team. And we're year four of an unserious competing
basketball team.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Things just change. So my premonition here.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Is, and I don't know this, but when you know,
within the next month or two or whatever, Utah football
season ticket holders are going to get an email to
say hey, we love you. And by the way, thirty
percent of charge for your tickets next year, whoever decides
to tailgate those tailgate lots aren't free, well guess what
you're probably gonna be up charge twenty thirty percent or
whatever that looks like. My question is what is the
(25:56):
reaction of the rest of the community. Will now be
asked to spend more on tickets, spend more on merch
Devin Danpier Jersey next year might be one hundred and
eighty bucks instead of night.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
I don't know what the numbers look like.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
That to me is going to be key here how
everybody responds to an additional ask to generate more revenue.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Yeah, and what typically happens spences is you get those
kinds of up charges initially when there's a big change,
you know. And I don't know if this is going
to impact that at all, But what happens is the
fans whenever they get they get hit like that, they
tend to react in a manner where they're upset about it,
(26:40):
they complain about it, they want to talk to somebody
because this isn't right. I've been a season ticket holder
for seventeen years and now all of a sudden, it's
twice as much as it was three years ago, and
this doesn't make sense, and whatever, whatever, and the answer
they get, you know, quite often as well, if you
we understand your frustration, your concern, but if you don't
(27:04):
want to hold on to your seats any longer, you
don't want to be involved, whatever, we appreciate it, and
we will move on to the next guy on the list,
because there's always the next guy on the list, and
they want to get involved, and the whole thing becomes
purely transactional. It's just, you know, you want to give
us the money to be involved with us, or you don't.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
It's very simple. The Jazz went through that in the first.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Iteration of the of the arena of the Delta Center
when the Millers was still the majority owners of the
team in the twenty fifteen sixteen seventeen, when we had
major renovations to the Delta Center and some seats got
moved around, and some people were affected by their longtime
(27:52):
seats either not being there or now all of a
sudden being doubled in price in some cases, and people
just got elbowed out, and people had to make a
decision do you know, do I want to stay involved
at a new price point or I don't. Sometime I
know I have friends who had tickets, who had great seats,
(28:13):
who told me, hey, I have great seats. I wanted
to keep them, but they but they told me there's
gonna be twice as much money the next year. Or
if I want to pay the same money, they can
figure out a way to get me from my row
five seat to my row twenty four seat. And so
they're moving me twenty rows back to and wanted the
(28:36):
same amount of money. So there are always those kinds
of things that come along with it. And I know,
in the case with the Jazz eleaset at that time,
I don't know how it is now, they simply went
to their waiting list of people, you know, when somebody
dropped out and said I can't afford anymore, they priced
me out. I'm out of here, and the Jazz said
(28:57):
thank you very much, and they went. The guy picked
up the phone own and call the next guy on
the list, and they got somebody else to buy the seat,
you know, and so so, and in that regard, there's
always gonna be somebody waiting if they think your product.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
Is worth their time and money. Right. So the U
has a very good football program.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Uh. They have a basketball program that that's uh, that's
proved improving.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
The newness of the Alex Jensen era. Uh, people excited
about that. So people seem to want to be involved
in that, uh more more so than they have the
last few years. So that's gonna be Those are gonna
be the things I would think that they're gonna be
harping on to try and make sure that they hold
on to the uh, the ticket buyers, the sponsors, the
(29:45):
advertisers that they already have in the fold.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
You know.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
It's it's interesting to consider the Jazz so more often
a year after year, during you know, the time you
were there, and of course the i'll call it camelots
for jazz fans, when John and Carr and Frank and
Jerry and then later with Dee Will and Booze and
Kevin calling the shots and then even extending through the
Mitchell and Go Bear Quinn run, the Jazz were among
(30:09):
the top six or seven in attendance every year and
sometimes even higher than that. Last year the Jazz were fifteenth,
so they weren't near the bottom and Ultimately, if you
look at some of the teams that are around them,
this list is interesting because the Bulls led the league
in attendance last year. Then it was the Sixers, the Knicks,
the Nuggets, the Heat top five. Sixers were a mess
(30:33):
because they couldn't get healthy. The Knicks were resurgent, The
Nuggets were very good, the Heat they were fine, but
Chicago wasn't very good. And then if you look around
the Jazz, ironically enough, Oklahoma City's fourteen, Jazz fifteen, Warriors sixteen,
So there's really no parallel between performance and attendance, which
I find very fascinating. But I think until you know,
(30:57):
it's a long way of me asking you, how long
do you think Jazz fans are gonna ride with his team?
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Well, what's interesting about the attendance figure suspenses is I
don't know every team handles it differently. I don't know
how the NBA levels that playing field in terms of
the reporting of it. I can tell you from personal
experience of being involved in the NBA all the years
that I was, there are some places where it's just
(31:21):
not as important an entity as it is others. You say,
for example, the Miami Heat we're in the top five
and attend. I can tell you, Spence, the Miami Heat
is near the bottom of the group of NBA teams.
When you talk about whether the fans are into it,
whether the fans show up, whether the fans really buy
the tickets, I'm not sure how they equite that. On
(31:44):
the flip side, Oklahoma City is very much like Utah
and that the fans in San Antonio, where it's the
big ticket in town. It's the big show in town.
Everybody wants to be involved in it. I think that's
been the way that it's been with the Jazz, UH,
you know, since they moved here in the eighties and
got better, you know, with Frank Layden's direction, and then
(32:05):
with the Miller's ownership leadership coming into the fold in
the mid eighties. UH, that became the Jazz became what
they what they were all through the nineties in the
two thousands. Now, UH, Salt Lake City also is a
different community.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
It's a different place.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
We now have the UH, the NHL is in town
and getting a great response here in the in the
second year UH of playing downtown the Delta Center. The
Miller family is trying to get major League Baseball. Who
knows if that's going to happen, but you can see
that that dynamic in in in the local sports scene
(32:48):
starting to evolve and change with the the growing population
of the uh you know, Silicon Slopes area, if you will,
any the area of our state in between Igden and Provo.
And you know, does that mean at some point they
start losing a hole on the faithful Jazz fans because
there's just too many other options for them to be
(33:11):
involved with their money and their time and interest. If
your team is not going to be competitive, you know,
anytime soon, do the fans just say, well, that was
a fun ride, but you know, we're on to the
next thing or whatever the other things get involved in
around here, you know, not not to say not the
least of which you say, you know, at the moment,
really the hot ticket item when you're talking about sports
(33:35):
at the moment is b YU men's basketball. That's the
hot ticket I because they got the de bands kid
and the and their top ten team.
Speaker 4 (33:43):
UH.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
The football team obviously has it rolling at the moment
with Koloney Sataki now committing a long term with them,
and it looks like their program is U is running
uh full steam and and so people have the other
areas where they can put their interest in their money.
And you know, if the Jazz are cannot turn it around,
(34:06):
it cannot start fielding competitive teams that look like they
can they can compete most nights, then it's going to
be interesting because at some point that starts wearing down
a little bit and people, you know, and what happens,
Spencers is you got the timing of it. So you've
got the generations right, we got we got a younger generation.
We're starting to grow up when they start if they're
(34:28):
teenagers now and the Jazz aren't really competitive whatever, when
they become young adult ticket buyers in their twenties, maybe
they don't have that kind of affinity that people like
you and I have, you know from our age groups,
you know, with the Jazz were competitive and everybody wanted
to be part of that process.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Yeah, a really good point.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
I mean, you're in danger of a generation, you know,
just having the experience that our pro basketball team is
average at best, which it never has been outside of
a one or a two year period before uh Scotti
or Kevin or Dennis was able to really pivot very
quickly which I continue to remind people of how rare
that is across the landscape of the league, you know
(35:10):
what I mean.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
No, we had we were very fortunate in UH in
three four when both John Stockton Carmelone, John retired, Carmelone
left UH finish his last year with the Lakers trying
to chase a ring.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
We had to turn it over.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
We had a quick turnaround because we we were fortunate, again,
timing and UH being a big part of it. But
we had the good fortune that we had. We had
the kind of teams that we had, We had built
a culture. We had Jerry Sloan, who's heading up as
our coach, UH you know, Hall of Fame coach UH
(35:49):
in in right in the mix at that time. And
so that summer free agency hit and just happened that
Carlos Boozer and the Meto Corps were both free agents.
You know, Cleveland messed up the Carlos Boozer UH contract
thing that allowed him to slide out and get more
money from Utah. Memo wasn't going to be signed by
(36:13):
the Pistons because they they had a very good team
at the time they were competing for NBA championship, which
he won with them his rookie year. Uh, but they
were gonna have to be paying their main guys the
next couple of years. They were looking ahead to Rip
Hamilton and Chauncey Billups and and Tayshaun Prince and Ben Wallace.
Speaker 4 (36:32):
They were gonna have to pay those guys.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
So there was somebody who was gonna fall out money wise,
and that happened to be Memo.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
A young guy underrated.
Speaker 4 (36:41):
Well it was.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
It was great for us he was he was there
and yeah, well no, not even that he was like
the eighth or ninth. I mean, you know, but he
was a young guy. Detroit liked him.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
But we also had a good relationship with Joe Dumars,
who was running the Pistons at the time, and Kevin
and he had very cordial conversations and about it, and
and uh, you know, Joe said, hey, look, we're not
gonna be able to match anything you do because we
got to save our money for the other guys who
were pulling the wagon at the moment. And so they
just knew they just had to shrug and go, well,
(37:15):
that's just we we can't pay everybody. And that's as
we've talked about before on the show. That's what happened
at Okay See when they had Westbrook and Hardin and Durant.
That fell apart much sooner than it should have, in
large part because they couldn't pay everybody what they what
they felt they were worth, or what they wanted. So
the Jazz in that in that regard, we're able to
(37:37):
get Memo and Carlos Boozer at the same time, and
then the next year, after a year kind of in between,
then we drafted Darren Williams and and we're back in
a very competitive mode very quickly with Andre Carolenko and
Ronnie Brewer in that group.
Speaker 4 (37:53):
So you know, those things.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
Sometimes you can plan it, sometimes you can execute what
you've got as a plan. Sometimes outside forces or circumstances
come into play that may benefit you, and but you
have to be ready to jump on those and take
advantage of them when they do present themselves. The Jazz
and four five we were able to do that, and
(38:18):
Kevin O'Connor was really smart and quick to the draw
on that, and we were all on board with what
we were trying to do in that time. And as
it was Jerry Sloan, and that's what the current iteration
of the Jazz now twenty years later. I can't believe
it's twenty years later, but you know, what they're trying
to do now is to position themselves financially to have
(38:39):
some money. That's why they've got several expiring contracts on
their books this year with Nurkic and Kevin Love and Anderson
and George and Nyang. All those guys won't be here
a year from now because their contracts will expire, and
the Jazz will use that money to try and go
get somebody like the Jazz did twenty years ago with
(39:00):
whether it's a boozer type or whatever, and then also
hope they get some lottery luck to go along with
marketing in and the young kid as Bailey they got
this year and try and start patchworking something together that
that can make sense for them, you know going forward.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
I think you because we were discussing attendance numbers and
whether or not they're dipping here in Salt Lake and
what the data says because Intel, and this is the
complicated thing. Like in tell any team that is in
a spot of purgatory feels hit in the pocketbook like
the Clippers for years under Donald Sterling.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
I mean it was unserious.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
He didn't give a rip right and obviously he was
a pos and had to go for several different reasons.
But I think there's a sentiment and I want to
bring this back around to the college athletic landscape with
what is going on with private equity.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
And look, fans are in different buckets.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
I think a lot of fans just want to get
home from work and watch a damn game and sho
out for a minute, or get an opportunity to maybe
take their son to go watch an NBA game, and
they don't really give a rip about anything beyond that.
Then there are more passionate fans that actually do care.
We've always had very knowledgeable, passionate basketball fans in our state, Bekers.
We're a basketball state in a lot of ways, even
though college football certainly has made a ton of inroads
(40:17):
over the past couple of decades. But there's a general
disenchantment with pro basketball because of you know, a seventy
six billion dollar TV deal, Like even if attendance isn't
great for you, you still get a piece of the
new TV deal, So revenue is through the roof and
the business of basketball is good, and so what's your
motivation right to build a championship team when all you're
(40:40):
telling us you really care.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
About is how much money you're making.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
And oftentimes you hear people say the quiet part out
loud when Durant will say nobody thinks of the fan, or,
as I often referenced, the Jason Kidd sound bite after
the Mavericks were eliminated from the playoffs that caught me
completely dead on my tracks when he said they just
lost and he's like, you guys, don't get it. We
are millionaires cheering for each other. It's like, Okay, we know,
(41:04):
but don't say that, right. Is there a danger of
the money becoming so big on the college side that
the people that are turned off because of big money
and pro sports are going to be turned off because
of big money in college.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
For Yeah, well, you know we're seeing it already, Spence
with the it's not just the nil landscape and this
outro capital coming in with the University of Utah landscape
and seeing what happens you know with that going forward.
Speaker 4 (41:30):
But it's it's it's it's.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
Really taking away the personality of the teams, and it's
really becoming, you know, something that's faceless and something that's
you know, more of a transactional arrangement. I mean, I
mean now with the transfer portal that's set up the
whole thing that that your team can turn over every
single year. You don't have guys that are the guys
(41:55):
you're rooting for for for three or four years for
your team as it builds up and as it gets
better or improves or or had some success, and you
want him to duplicate that success the next year, because
you don't know who's going to be wearing uniform number
four next year. Uh, you know, it's a you know,
the the Utah basketball last year, I know, I had
(42:17):
had a kid who transferred out, you know, with the
change of the coaching staff in the spring. Who and
and I can't remember where he went now off the
top of my head, but he was he was going
to his fourth school in four years, you know, and
he was just and he's just the middle of the
road player. You know, he's trying to get the next
best thing for himself. And but that's what you're able
(42:39):
to do if you're a college athlete.
Speaker 4 (42:42):
Now you can pick up and move when you want to.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
You don't like what happened to practice this week, and
the and the coach didn't play you at the game
on Saturday night. On Sunday, you can move out of
the dorm and pick up and move to another school.
You know that that has happened, that that those things.
It's everything is so tentative and so immediate now that
(43:08):
the fan, at some point it just seems like you're
just gonna you know, it's the old Jerry Seinfeld bit
about you know, growing up rooting for your guys, but
now it's just you're just rooting for laundry. Because you
don't know who's underneath the helmet at quarterback. You just
know he's worrying number four. This year, his name is
Dan Pierre. Next year it's gonna it may be somebody else. Whatever.
(43:31):
And so your affiliation is to is to the uniforms
of the stadium, the locale you're in because the players
you don't know who they are, uh, because they move
in and out and and it's just gonna continue to
be that.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
You know, Randy Ray at Weaver State, you know, great
coach up there for sixteen years, should have been doing
it for another four or five years. But as soon
as this stuff hit three years ago, he said, I'm
out of here. I can't deal with it because if
I get a Damian Lillard again, if I'm lucky enough
to do that, he's only going to be here for
a year, maybe not even a year, and somebody else
(44:07):
is going to come in and poach him and give
him more money or whatever, and he's gonna have to
leave for family and personal reasons, and so I'm gonna
always be swinging uphill. And that just seems like that's
what's happening now, is that the rich are trying to
get richer, and the other teams are trying to try
and keep up with them to see if they can
(44:28):
stay on that competitive landscape, and the whole transaction of
all that stuff, the fan, the interest just seems to
get way laid in the dust man.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
It is a wild time with things changing at a
rapid pace.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
If you missed it.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Cheron Moore has been fired by the University of Michigan
for an inappropriate relationship with a staffer.
Several private equity experts on the show. Today, the business
of college football and college athletics is covered by Matt Brown,
probably on a higher level than maybe anybody doing it.
He is the editor of Extra Points. It's a newsletter
that I used is to prepare for the show.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
He's going to stop by.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
My brother Andrew Checketts, who's also a private equity bro
and has been for about twenty years, will join us
live in studio. Jake Murphy, who has some thoughts that
he's been sharing on social media about the new partnership
that Utah has with Ultro Capital, will join us. But
our first guest is probably the biggest private equity expert
that we could find in the state.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Richard Smith. Smitty, how are you, sir Spence?
Speaker 4 (00:44):
This is great? You know, this is like.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
The other night when I went to see Nate Borgatzi
at the Delta Center. Was a fun show. He's stand
up comedian. For people who don't know.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Who he is, honey guy, and he had he was
coming out to.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Do his show, and he had he had four other
comedians before him come out and do a little you know,
five minutes, ten minute stick whatever that thing was. And
he's trying to give them a boost or whatever, you know.
And uh, and that's what So that's what you got here.
This is like, you know, let's get let's get Richard
Smith on because he doesn't know anything about this stuff,
(01:23):
so he'll be like the new you know, new guy.
Will give him a little a little pop, you know,
as the opener, then kick him off the stage so
we can get the headliners on.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
And and I see what's going on. This is this
is the way it is.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
You know, you have to when you're in this business,
you have to be able to have the ability to
just call it the way it is. And that's the
way it is. So okay, I you know that's that's
not a problem for me.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Well the way it is.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
You are an expert, certainly in professional sports where you
spent for decades. And at this point, I mean there
are a lot of people that are panicked about this
and private act what he has been on the way
for a while. Does it feel like at this point
everything is out the window and they're really like, what's
the line of delineation between pro sports and college sports?
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Now?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Is there any at this point?
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Well, you know, the hard part is Spencer is the
way that it's going right now, you know, the institutions
are in my opinion, it's all my opinion now just
from where I sit up in the twenty seventh row
of the games now and looking down they it just
seems like they're getting further and further away from what
the actual intent or purpose of their institution is, which
(02:36):
is these these places are are places of palaces of
higher education, higher learning, and you're supposed to go there
to be able to learn and figure out what you
want to do with your life and to be a
better person and be a young person who young adult
who comes out on the other end of four years,
(02:58):
five years in some case like yourself, eight years, you know,
to graduate whatever, and which is okay, you know, But
that's that is the purpose of these schools.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Now it's gotten the sports part of it.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
And let's let's be honest, mens, this is all about
football and men's basketball at ninety eight percent of the institutions.
It has nothing to do with the men's tennis team,
has nothing to do with the women's swim team, or
or any of the other athletic and endeavors at each
school decides to be part of. This is all about
(03:33):
the revenue generating sports, and it's about selling sponsorships, it's
about selling tickets, it's about getting people into seats uh
to to to to buy a hot dog and an
overpriced beer or coke, whatever it is to be able
to fund what they what they're you know, really fronting
(03:54):
as part of the amateur athletic endeavor of the institution.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
And it's just getting further and further out of whack.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
And instead of going against the grain and schools standing
up and going, wait a minute, now, is this what
we're supposed to be all about. Everybody is just jumping
on that boat that's going down the rapids very quickly
and decided to instead of swimming against the tide, I'm
just gonna get on that boat and go wherever it
(04:24):
takes me. And you know, and I got to try
and do whatever I can to keep my head above water.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
And so that's what we're gonna do.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
So if we have to go against BYU financially in
the case of Utah, we have to go against Texas
Tech as we've seen this fall in football, financially, we
are going we have decided we're going to get in
into that business and we're going to try and swim
with those sharks. And to me, it's really I don't
(04:52):
know it. Just the whole thing boggles my mind that
it's gotten to this point very very quickly.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Few things you know, in reference to BYU, they have
the ultimate private equity fund in the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter day Saints.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
They don't need to do this.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
They also have several very deep pocketed boosters and donors
that love BYU Athletics and are fine donating millions and
millions of dollars without any sort of return because they
love BYU. And then they're members of the church, so
they want the message of the church furthered. So BYU
has a built in advantage that UTAH simply didn't have.
(05:33):
Texas Tech has oil money with Cody Campbell and his
powerful network, Texas Tech doesn't need to do something like this.
Utah had to find an answer. Smitty, your points are
well taken, and I'm not going to push back on
any of them other than you know, the sanctity of
amateurism has long been put to rest, certainly at least
for five years when NIL became a reality and the
(05:55):
transfer portal became a reality, and now they have at
least curtailed the transfer portal to one point of the
calendar instead of letting people walk all the time.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Which was just nuts.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
But if Utah didn't do this, I'm not sure what
was out there for them to keep up with everybody
else in college athletics. You know, the SEC and the
Big Ten have much better TV payouts per member institution
because their TV deals are more valuable, and it's simple
because of what more people watching those games. So they
go to ESPN, they go to Fox, they get a
(06:25):
better TV deal. So the Big ten, the SEC schools
get a better TV payout than the Big twelve schools
Texas Tech with oil money BYU with the church backing them,
and then they're powerful boosters and donors that have already
proven that they're ready to step up to the table.
And I don't know that Utah could have waited, like
it felt very prescient for them to find a solution.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Here is this the best solution? I can't answer that.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
I mean, this is very similar to what the Big
ten brought to the table to their member institutions and
the Big Ten. Example is how he started the show
it College Football or college athletics does not have a
revenue problem.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
They have a spending problem.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
The Big Ten killed the old Big East as you
and I knew it, which was a great basketball conference,
still a fine basketball conference, but a good football conference,
not a great one. Then they went out west and
took la you know, the second biggest TV market in America.
They grabbed Maryland because they wanted the Northeast footprint. They
grabbed Nebraska from the Big Twelve so they could have
(07:26):
a championship game in the name of revenue.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
And guess what, they don't have any money.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Yeah, So they tried to consummate this private equity deal
and Michigan, because of their twenty billion dollars endown it,
said no. And Michigan's president said something. Then when I
read it this morning, really took suit out to me.
He said, anyone that gets in the private equity business,
you are taking a pay day loan, and that loan
is going to come due. But other than this avenue,
(07:52):
what other direction could Utah have gone?
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Well, look, Spence, you have to have the the the
intestinal fortitude to decide what you want to be and
what what you want. The institution that that you work
for to represent you could be they could very well
if they wanted to.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
They could be. Uh.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Saint Francis from last spring in Pennsylvania, who who who
won their their their conference right in men's basketball, went
to the first round. The NCAAA got pounded because it
weren't you know, on that level athletically. But but they
made the tournament. And then the week after the tournament
they make an announcement that we're getting out of this business.
(08:35):
This does not make sense for what our institution is about.
And and and I'm sure there's a large part of
it where they looked at it and said, we just
can't keep up with the Joneses. So we're gonna get
out and we're gonna, you know, to use a poor analogy,
we're going to move out of the neighborhood and move into,
you know, a lesser neighborhood somewhere because we can't keep
(08:58):
up with it and what everybody around us is doing.
We have to concentrate on what we're here for, which
is the academic pursuit of our students and the education
of them, uh to to go forward in the world. Obviously,
you know, big money sports has infiltrated athletics.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Now, in in in in the university setting all over
the country. Everybody wants to be part of that. It's
a raw, raw feeling. It's making your alumni feel good. Uh.
Nobody really rallies around the mathematics or the engineering department
when they make huge research discoveries.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
Or whatever that might change the world.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
But they do at the Saturday night basketball game, right,
and so whatever that is in our in our culture,
in our society, that's that's the way people respond. And
the universities have said, we're going to follow that and
we're going to go down that stream to try and
and uh and stay above water and try and compete.
(10:02):
That's what Utah is doing. My my take on it, Spence,
is this is simply, while it's a it's a forward
thinking move by by the University of Utah to do this, uh,
the way they're doing it looks.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
To me, uh and and and you're exactly right.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
I'm not I'm not a private equity guy, and I'm
not a finance guy and all that. But it just
looks and feels like what they're doing is trying to
figure out how we can take care of this at
this moment. And figure out how we can stay with
the big dogs at this moment in time, knowing that
five six, seven years from now the landscape might change,
(10:44):
we might have to switch to Plan B or D
or F or whatever it's going to be. And what
we're doing now is just kicking that can down the
road so that we can survive at the moment in
the in the realm that we're in right now, and
then and five years from now, there'll be other rules
and there'll be other changes to the landscape, and then
(11:07):
we'll have to figure out what those rules are and
how to respond to them at that time. But today
we're doing this to try and figure out how we
can stay with all the other big boys on that platform.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Yeah, and so to answer the question of what this
is going to look like and then kind of understand
how it will be executed. There will be a seven
member board of directors. Mark Harlan will be the chair
of that board. There will be three other seats that
will be a part of the Utah Athletic Ecosystem or
(11:43):
the university. I don't know if Taylor Randall is taking
one of those seats. My guess is, well, my hope
is that the answer is yes, because I really trust
Taylor and I think he's a really bright guy. So
you got Mark Harlin. You've got three other seats that
belong to Utah people. You have two seats that belong
to Outro Capital, and then you have one seat that
(12:04):
will go to a local business person that is invested
into this new company, which is Utah Brands and Entertainment LLC.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
I don't know who that person would be.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
My guess is you're gonna hear the Echos, You're gonna
hear Huntsman, You're gonna hear Garf. You know, you're gonna
hear a lot of the names that you would expect.
And then there's going to be a president who is
going to run Utah Brands and Entertainment LLC that reports
to the board, and then once a year, the board
has to report to the Utah Board of Trustees. So
the reason why this is pertinent, Smitty, is that the
(12:37):
the the controlling stake of the new company does belong
to the university, and then the decision making as it
pertains to scheduling and hiring and firing coaches remains in
the lap of Mark Harlan. So that I mean most
private equity companies. And by the way, Outro has the
We've got three different companies in their portfolio where they
(12:59):
bought control interest.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Their mo up to this point.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Has you got to give us at least fifty one
percent and the majority of board seats. This is the
first investment where they have not bought controlling percentages and
they don't have the majority of the seats on the board.
And even Charlie Baker, the president of the NCAA, was
asked about this at the Sports Business Journal Intercollegiate Athletics
Forum last night and he called it a really.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Well thought out and well designed plan.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
So I bring all that up because if there is
a piece of good news here, because I think people
have this vision in their head that a bunch of
New York finance bros. Are about to come out here
and change everything. No, the decision making process is still
the same and it really is up to Mark and Taylor,
and they maintain controlling stakes here.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
So that's good news.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
And what's going to happen spences how they make those decisions,
whether it's coaches they hire, whether it's those coaches and
the people who work with them on their staff UH
can recruit student athletes to come in that are going
to keep them competitive and keep them on a national landscape,
(14:09):
so to speak. In the next several years. Then Outro
Capital is gonna be standing on the sideline going, hey, hey,
that's a good job. Hey, way to go with that
and whatever, and they're gonna be waiting to you know,
from their perspective, this is this is strict, this is
this isn't about you know, the the rah rah and
kumbaya of the University of Utah Athletics and being a
(14:33):
booster and a fan or whatever. Otro Capital is in
this for one reason, and that's to make money at
the end of the day. And so they're gonna hope
that the U can make good decisions, can can have
their programs on the upper echelon and and be competitive
on a national landscape so that when the time comes
(14:54):
for Outro Capital to exit out the side door, they
can say, well, we were gonna sell off our equity
stake back to you for X amount of profit.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
That's what they're in this for.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
They believe, obviously on some level, that the University of
Utah can help them achieve that goal, and that's what
they're in it for and it gives the you that
capital investment up front right away now so that they
can try and make decisions going forward that they think
are going to benefit their overall athletic department.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah, and you and I were talking about this off air,
and I want to be clear here, we're just discussing
possibilities and potential ramifications based off of certain dynamics, a
lot of which are still not public. University of Utah
is a publicly owned institution tax exempt status now being
run for profit with this side LLC. Penny for your thoughts,
(15:52):
state legislators, I mean, I don't know how you know,
I don't know how the people that run our state
politically feel about this yet.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
I'd love to hear from them.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Yeah, and that's going to be I would think something
that they already thought of. I would assume something that
they've they've got lined up in terms of how they
make sure they address that issue. Look, we just saw
in the last couple of months on the on the
NCAA football landscape, what was going down in the state
(16:19):
of Louisiana with a public institution like LSU Louisiana State
University in Baton rouge and when they fired their football coach,
and the football coach had a fifty three million dollar
buy out in his contract if he got fired without cause.
There was a little scuttle but about that. The governor
(16:40):
got involved in it to say, you know, this is
awful whatever, you know. So now you had you had
the governor of the state of Louisiana weighing in on
what the athletic department at LSU is doing, so to
go so far as to say, yeah, the athletic director
who set that up, he didn't know what he was doing,
you know whatever. And since then he left and they
(17:00):
put in a guy who'd been there for a while,
but someone else is now in that seat, and now
they bring in Lane Kiffin and have the whole thing
set up even more so in that regard, if you're
following college football at all and the Lane Kiffin soap opera,
but that's their state government overseeing or at least making
(17:22):
public comments about how they're running their football program, you
have to assume that the Utah State Legislature is going
to be really looking at this closely, because you're exactly right.
It starts addressing the issue of what your tax exempt
status is as a public institution and what that means
(17:44):
for the people in the state of Utah.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
And what we can't run from, whether we try to
spin this is really good news today or talk about
the potential benefits down the road, is what private equity
is about and the one thing that they care about
no matter what, whether it's sports or hotels or restaurants
or whatever. I have a friend who text to me
who was working for a local real estate app company
(18:09):
and they found this lane where they were doing really well.
And guess what happened. Private equity said, Oh wait, they're
making some money. We're going to give them I don't know,
X million dollars to continue their growth, and then we're
going to come in and we're going to fire everybody
and make sure expenses are cut in the name of
revenue growing. So when we sell you off, we have
made money. That's all they want to do. So we
(18:31):
have to be very clear about that. We cannot run
from that. And to back up what I said earlier,
where college sports does not have a revenue problem, they
have a spending problem. We actually have numbers here where
last year Utah Athletics brought in one hundred and nine
million dollars in revenue. Any business that brings one hundred
and nine million dollars in revenue, you would think is
(18:52):
in a good spot. Problem is expenses about one hundred
and twenty five MILI. They were roughly seventeen million dollars
in debt last year and the non revenue generating sports
cost them seventeen million dollars right now. So it's fair
to ask what does this mean for soccer and tennis,
in swimming and track and field. The interesting dynamic here
(19:15):
and I don't know the answer this. Taylor Randall is
going to join us in studio next week, so maybe
you can shed some light on this. The Utah Brands
and Entertainment LLC, the offshoot company that's a partnership between
Utah and OTRO. Their new pe partners only includes football, basketball,
and gymnastics. It does not include these other sports. So
I'm caught in between whether or not that means the
(19:36):
other sports are safe and bankrolled by this entity, or
will OTRO come in with their accountants that don't give
a rip about Utah Soccer and say line item in
the red gone. I don't know how that's gonna shake out.
I think that's something that will be interesting to see
over time.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Yeah, I think Spence they're gonna concentrate on the big
boys sport and for you and every school is a
little bit different. Most schools over around the football program
and the men's basketball program as the big revenue producers
here at the University of Utah, not a great revenue producer,
(20:16):
I don't believe. But the other big ticket item, as
it's been for years at the on the University of
Utah campus, has been women's gymnastics. And that's the one
that brings in eight, ten, twelve thousand fans for each
one of their their their meets.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
No other none of their other sports do that.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Even when women's softball was having their big run a
couple of years ago, and everybody's getting on board with that.
You you know, I went, I went to several of
the games they had because that's all they could fit,
you know, maybe fifteen hundred, maybe two thousand, you know,
fans jamming the outfield, you know, area to be able
(20:55):
to support them. You know, the women's volleyball program which
has been very competitive and recent years under Beth l Naire,
you know, they can only get a limited amount of
people unless they go into the Huntsman Center for big matches,
which they've done from time to time, but that's those
sports are all going to be affected by how the
bigger programs, the money producing programs do and how that
(21:19):
money gets into the coffers for them.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
ESPN seven hundred and the Rocky Mountain Chevy Dealers and
value to help those at the road home this holiday
season with needed blankets, coats, shoes, hats and gloves. Drop
off donations at any Rocky Mountain Chevy dealer. Visit ESPN
seven hundred sports dot com for dealer locations, spread the
warmth and help others find their way home and join
us at the Midvale Road Home. Media thon December eighteenth
(21:44):
through the nineteenth. One more segment with Smitty coming up
on the other side. Is it NBA Cup Night?
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Is the second night of NBA Cup Quarter Final? Come on, Spence,
you know this well, No, I really know, because I
know you were riveted last night to.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
The TV, but there was different energy about it, and.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
I know you spent half an hour trying to find
the one game on Prime Video.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Started, So I don't know, Maybe do some NBA on
the show Today on the station Today. Michigan has fired
Sharon Moore. He has been terminated with cause, effective immediately,
following a university investigation. Credible evidence was found that Sharon
Moore engaged in an inappropriate relationship with a staff member,
(22:27):
and the conduct, according to his contract, constitutes a clear
violation of university policy, as the University of Michigan maintains
zero tolerance for such behavior. So being fired fired for cause,
of course, not only means he doesn't have a job anymore,
but I would imagine, like all college coaches, he has
a massive biout clause that will not be executed. So
(22:50):
that is a very expensive mistake for Sharon Moore, who
Smittie is now out of a job.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Yeah, and you know, in a very good coach, and
the interviews I've seen with him the last few years
seems it seemed like a really uh, stand up guy
and and uh a good coach to take over for
Jim Hardball when he left Michigan. And it's it's just,
you know, it's very disappointing if if that's what the
(23:16):
case was, that that something like that happened, and and
that he let his you know, his personal emotions get
in the way of you know, a very growing and
burgeon owning college football coaching career that he that he
had with one of the premier institutions in the country.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Yeah, no, it's it's really unfortunate.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Uh So Sharon Moore is now out of a job
and uh ultimately uh will not receive any portion of
his buyout. All right, we were talking smittee of course
last segment about this historic partnership between Utah Athletics and
Outrow Private Equity out of New York.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
When it comes to the concern so the one.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Well, there are a lot of questions, but one thing
that we just don't know is how this is going
to change the consumer experience for just your average Joe
fan because they're according to the reports in the New
York Times, the Athletic has a really good piece that
was released kind of right off after we were signing
off air Matt Baker, Justin William Stewart Mandel, there's the
(24:23):
Ross Dellinger piece as well. Dan Wetsley ESPN has got involved.
So what we understand based off the reporting is there
is a portion of this community that has been allowed
to invest in the new company. This Utah Brands and
Entertainment LLC, which of course is the new company that
Utah has partnered with OTRO to create. And then there's
a portion of Utah donors and investors that have been
(24:46):
allowed to buy pieces of equity in this.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
I don't know who they are.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
I don't know, you know, if there's a certain criteria
about how much money yet I would imagine there was
a certain threshold that had to be met. One thing
I can tell you when to come to private equity
getting involved is typically things change. Things change with the stadium,
things change with the arena, things change with the consumer experience.
I mean, look Ryan Smith, his VC, you know, private
(25:12):
equity bros By the Jazz from the Millers. Initially he
was like, yeah, we don't think we're going to change
very much, and they just went ahead and change everything,
including a lot of changes with the building, including a
lot of changes with the consumer experience, and then changing
the team. And we're year four of an unserious competing
basketball team.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Things just change. So my premonition here.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Is, and I don't know this, but when you know,
within the next month or two or whatever, Utah football
season ticket holders are going to get an email to
say hey, we love you. And by the way, thirty
percent of charge for your tickets next year, whoever decides
to tailgate those tailgate lots aren't free, well guess what
you're probably gonna be up charge twenty thirty percent or
whatever that looks like. My question is what is the
(25:56):
reaction of the rest of the community. Will now be
asked to spend more on tickets, spend more on merch
Devin Danpier Jersey next year might be one hundred and
eighty bucks instead of night.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
I don't know what the numbers look like.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
That to me is going to be key here how
everybody responds to an additional ask to generate more revenue.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Yeah, and what typically happens spences is you get those
kinds of up charges initially when there's a big change,
you know. And I don't know if this is going
to impact that at all, But what happens is the
fans whenever they get they get hit like that, they
tend to react in a manner where they're upset about it,
(26:40):
they complain about it, they want to talk to somebody
because this isn't right. I've been a season ticket holder
for seventeen years and now all of a sudden, it's
twice as much as it was three years ago, and
this doesn't make sense, and whatever, whatever, and the answer
they get, you know, quite often as well, if you
we understand your frustration, your concern, but if you don't
(27:04):
want to hold on to your seats any longer, you
don't want to be involved, whatever, we appreciate it, and
we will move on to the next guy on the list,
because there's always the next guy on the list, and
they want to get involved, and the whole thing becomes
purely transactional. It's just, you know, you want to give
us the money to be involved with us, or you don't.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
It's very simple. The Jazz went through that in the first.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Iteration of the of the arena of the Delta Center
when the Millers was still the majority owners of the
team in the twenty fifteen sixteen seventeen, when we had
major renovations to the Delta Center and some seats got
moved around, and some people were affected by their longtime
(27:52):
seats either not being there or now all of a
sudden being doubled in price in some cases, and people
just got elbowed out, and people had to make a
decision do you know, do I want to stay involved
at a new price point or I don't. Sometime I
know I have friends who had tickets, who had great seats,
(28:13):
who told me, hey, I have great seats. I wanted
to keep them, but they but they told me there's
gonna be twice as much money the next year. Or
if I want to pay the same money, they can
figure out a way to get me from my row
five seat to my row twenty four seat. And so
they're moving me twenty rows back to and wanted the
(28:36):
same amount of money. So there are always those kinds
of things that come along with it. And I know,
in the case with the Jazz eleaset at that time,
I don't know how it is now, they simply went
to their waiting list of people, you know, when somebody
dropped out and said I can't afford anymore, they priced
me out. I'm out of here, and the Jazz said
(28:57):
thank you very much, and they went. The guy picked
up the phone own and call the next guy on
the list, and they got somebody else to buy the seat,
you know, and so so, and in that regard, there's
always gonna be somebody waiting if they think your product.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
Is worth their time and money. Right. So the U
has a very good football program.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Uh. They have a basketball program that that's uh, that's
proved improving.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
The newness of the Alex Jensen era. Uh, people excited
about that. So people seem to want to be involved
in that, uh more more so than they have the
last few years. So that's gonna be Those are gonna
be the things I would think that they're gonna be
harping on to try and make sure that they hold
on to the uh, the ticket buyers, the sponsors, the
(29:45):
advertisers that they already have in the fold.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
You know.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
It's it's interesting to consider the Jazz so more often
a year after year, during you know, the time you
were there, and of course the i'll call it camelots
for jazz fans, when John and Carr and Frank and
Jerry and then later with Dee Will and Booze and
Kevin calling the shots and then even extending through the
Mitchell and Go Bear Quinn run, the Jazz were among
(30:09):
the top six or seven in attendance every year and
sometimes even higher than that. Last year the Jazz were fifteenth,
so they weren't near the bottom and Ultimately, if you
look at some of the teams that are around them,
this list is interesting because the Bulls led the league
in attendance last year. Then it was the Sixers, the Knicks,
the Nuggets, the Heat top five. Sixers were a mess
(30:33):
because they couldn't get healthy. The Knicks were resurgent, The
Nuggets were very good, the Heat they were fine, but
Chicago wasn't very good. And then if you look around
the Jazz, ironically enough, Oklahoma City's fourteen, Jazz fifteen, Warriors sixteen,
So there's really no parallel between performance and attendance, which
I find very fascinating. But I think until you know,
(30:57):
it's a long way of me asking you, how long
do you think Jazz fans are gonna ride with his team?
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Well, what's interesting about the attendance figure suspenses is I
don't know every team handles it differently. I don't know
how the NBA levels that playing field in terms of
the reporting of it. I can tell you from personal
experience of being involved in the NBA all the years
that I was, there are some places where it's just
(31:21):
not as important an entity as it is others. You say,
for example, the Miami Heat we're in the top five
and attend. I can tell you, Spence, the Miami Heat
is near the bottom of the group of NBA teams.
When you talk about whether the fans are into it,
whether the fans show up, whether the fans really buy
the tickets, I'm not sure how they equite that. On
(31:44):
the flip side, Oklahoma City is very much like Utah
and that the fans in San Antonio, where it's the
big ticket in town. It's the big show in town.
Everybody wants to be involved in it. I think that's
been the way that it's been with the Jazz, UH,
you know, since they moved here in the eighties and
got better, you know, with Frank Layden's direction, and then
(32:05):
with the Miller's ownership leadership coming into the fold in
the mid eighties. UH, that became the Jazz became what
they what they were all through the nineties in the
two thousands. Now, UH, Salt Lake City also is a
different community.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
It's a different place.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
We now have the UH, the NHL is in town
and getting a great response here in the in the
second year UH of playing downtown the Delta Center. The
Miller family is trying to get major League Baseball. Who
knows if that's going to happen, but you can see
that that dynamic in in in the local sports scene
(32:48):
starting to evolve and change with the the growing population
of the uh you know, Silicon Slopes area, if you will,
any the area of our state in between Igden and Provo.
And you know, does that mean at some point they
start losing a hole on the faithful Jazz fans because
there's just too many other options for them to be
(33:11):
involved with their money and their time and interest. If
your team is not going to be competitive, you know,
anytime soon, do the fans just say, well, that was
a fun ride, but you know, we're on to the
next thing or whatever the other things get involved in
around here, you know, not not to say not the
least of which you say, you know, at the moment,
really the hot ticket item when you're talking about sports
(33:35):
at the moment is b YU men's basketball. That's the
hot ticket I because they got the de bands kid
and the and their top ten team.
Speaker 4 (33:43):
UH.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
The football team obviously has it rolling at the moment
with Koloney Sataki now committing a long term with them,
and it looks like their program is U is running
uh full steam and and so people have the other
areas where they can put their interest in their money.
And you know, if the Jazz are cannot turn it around,
(34:06):
it cannot start fielding competitive teams that look like they
can they can compete most nights, then it's going to
be interesting because at some point that starts wearing down
a little bit and people, you know, and what happens,
Spencers is you got the timing of it. So you've
got the generations right, we got we got a younger generation.
We're starting to grow up when they start if they're
(34:28):
teenagers now and the Jazz aren't really competitive whatever, when
they become young adult ticket buyers in their twenties, maybe
they don't have that kind of affinity that people like
you and I have, you know from our age groups,
you know, with the Jazz were competitive and everybody wanted
to be part of that process.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Yeah, a really good point.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
I mean, you're in danger of a generation, you know,
just having the experience that our pro basketball team is
average at best, which it never has been outside of
a one or a two year period before uh Scotti
or Kevin or Dennis was able to really pivot very
quickly which I continue to remind people of how rare
that is across the landscape of the league, you know
(35:10):
what I mean.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
No, we had we were very fortunate in UH in
three four when both John Stockton Carmelone, John retired, Carmelone
left UH finish his last year with the Lakers trying
to chase a ring.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
We had to turn it over.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
We had a quick turnaround because we we were fortunate, again,
timing and UH being a big part of it. But
we had the good fortune that we had. We had
the kind of teams that we had, We had built
a culture. We had Jerry Sloan, who's heading up as
our coach, UH you know, Hall of Fame coach UH
(35:49):
in in right in the mix at that time. And
so that summer free agency hit and just happened that
Carlos Boozer and the Meto Corps were both free agents.
You know, Cleveland messed up the Carlos Boozer UH contract
thing that allowed him to slide out and get more
money from Utah. Memo wasn't going to be signed by
(36:13):
the Pistons because they they had a very good team
at the time they were competing for NBA championship, which
he won with them his rookie year. Uh, but they
were gonna have to be paying their main guys the
next couple of years. They were looking ahead to Rip
Hamilton and Chauncey Billups and and Tayshaun Prince and Ben Wallace.
Speaker 4 (36:32):
They were gonna have to pay those guys.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
So there was somebody who was gonna fall out money wise,
and that happened to be Memo.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
A young guy underrated.
Speaker 4 (36:41):
Well it was.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
It was great for us he was he was there
and yeah, well no, not even that he was like
the eighth or ninth. I mean, you know, but he
was a young guy. Detroit liked him.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
But we also had a good relationship with Joe Dumars,
who was running the Pistons at the time, and Kevin
and he had very cordial conversations and about it, and
and uh, you know, Joe said, hey, look, we're not
gonna be able to match anything you do because we
got to save our money for the other guys who
were pulling the wagon at the moment. And so they
just knew they just had to shrug and go, well,
(37:15):
that's just we we can't pay everybody. And that's as
we've talked about before on the show. That's what happened
at Okay See when they had Westbrook and Hardin and Durant.
That fell apart much sooner than it should have, in
large part because they couldn't pay everybody what they what
they felt they were worth, or what they wanted. So
the Jazz in that in that regard, we're able to
(37:37):
get Memo and Carlos Boozer at the same time, and
then the next year, after a year kind of in between,
then we drafted Darren Williams and and we're back in
a very competitive mode very quickly with Andre Carolenko and
Ronnie Brewer in that group.
Speaker 4 (37:53):
So you know, those things.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
Sometimes you can plan it, sometimes you can execute what
you've got as a plan. Sometimes outside forces or circumstances
come into play that may benefit you, and but you
have to be ready to jump on those and take
advantage of them when they do present themselves. The Jazz
and four five we were able to do that, and
(38:18):
Kevin O'Connor was really smart and quick to the draw
on that, and we were all on board with what
we were trying to do in that time. And as
it was Jerry Sloan, and that's what the current iteration
of the Jazz now twenty years later. I can't believe
it's twenty years later, but you know, what they're trying
to do now is to position themselves financially to have
(38:39):
some money. That's why they've got several expiring contracts on
their books this year with Nurkic and Kevin Love and Anderson
and George and Nyang. All those guys won't be here
a year from now because their contracts will expire, and
the Jazz will use that money to try and go
get somebody like the Jazz did twenty years ago with
(39:00):
whether it's a boozer type or whatever, and then also
hope they get some lottery luck to go along with
marketing in and the young kid as Bailey they got
this year and try and start patchworking something together that
that can make sense for them, you know going forward.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
I think you because we were discussing attendance numbers and
whether or not they're dipping here in Salt Lake and
what the data says because Intel, and this is the
complicated thing. Like in tell any team that is in
a spot of purgatory feels hit in the pocketbook like
the Clippers for years under Donald Sterling.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
I mean it was unserious.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
He didn't give a rip right and obviously he was
a pos and had to go for several different reasons.
But I think there's a sentiment and I want to
bring this back around to the college athletic landscape with
what is going on with private equity.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
And look, fans are in different buckets.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
I think a lot of fans just want to get
home from work and watch a damn game and sho
out for a minute, or get an opportunity to maybe
take their son to go watch an NBA game, and
they don't really give a rip about anything beyond that.
Then there are more passionate fans that actually do care.
We've always had very knowledgeable, passionate basketball fans in our state, Bekers.
We're a basketball state in a lot of ways, even
though college football certainly has made a ton of inroads
(40:17):
over the past couple of decades. But there's a general
disenchantment with pro basketball because of you know, a seventy
six billion dollar TV deal, Like even if attendance isn't
great for you, you still get a piece of the
new TV deal, So revenue is through the roof and
the business of basketball is good, and so what's your
motivation right to build a championship team when all you're
(40:40):
telling us you really care.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
About is how much money you're making.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
And oftentimes you hear people say the quiet part out
loud when Durant will say nobody thinks of the fan, or,
as I often referenced, the Jason Kidd sound bite after
the Mavericks were eliminated from the playoffs that caught me
completely dead on my tracks when he said they just
lost and he's like, you guys, don't get it. We
are millionaires cheering for each other. It's like, Okay, we know,
(41:04):
but don't say that, right. Is there a danger of
the money becoming so big on the college side that
the people that are turned off because of big money
and pro sports are going to be turned off because
of big money in college.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
For Yeah, well, you know we're seeing it already, Spence
with the it's not just the nil landscape and this
outro capital coming in with the University of Utah landscape
and seeing what happens you know with that going forward.
Speaker 4 (41:30):
But it's it's it's it's.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
Really taking away the personality of the teams, and it's
really becoming, you know, something that's faceless and something that's
you know, more of a transactional arrangement. I mean, I
mean now with the transfer portal that's set up the
whole thing that that your team can turn over every
single year. You don't have guys that are the guys
(41:55):
you're rooting for for for three or four years for
your team as it builds up and as it gets
better or improves or or had some success, and you
want him to duplicate that success the next year, because
you don't know who's going to be wearing uniform number
four next year. Uh, you know, it's a you know,
the the Utah basketball last year, I know, I had
(42:17):
had a kid who transferred out, you know, with the
change of the coaching staff in the spring. Who and
and I can't remember where he went now off the
top of my head, but he was he was going
to his fourth school in four years, you know, and
he was just and he's just the middle of the
road player. You know, he's trying to get the next
best thing for himself. And but that's what you're able
(42:39):
to do if you're a college athlete.
Speaker 4 (42:42):
Now you can pick up and move when you want to.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
You don't like what happened to practice this week, and
the and the coach didn't play you at the game
on Saturday night. On Sunday, you can move out of
the dorm and pick up and move to another school.
You know that that has happened, that that those things.
It's everything is so tentative and so immediate now that
(43:08):
the fan, at some point it just seems like you're
just gonna you know, it's the old Jerry Seinfeld bit
about you know, growing up rooting for your guys, but
now it's just you're just rooting for laundry. Because you
don't know who's underneath the helmet at quarterback. You just
know he's worrying number four. This year, his name is
Dan Pierre. Next year it's gonna it may be somebody else. Whatever.
(43:31):
And so your affiliation is to is to the uniforms
of the stadium, the locale you're in because the players
you don't know who they are, uh, because they move
in and out and and it's just gonna continue to
be that.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
You know, Randy Ray at Weaver State, you know, great
coach up there for sixteen years, should have been doing
it for another four or five years. But as soon
as this stuff hit three years ago, he said, I'm
out of here. I can't deal with it because if
I get a Damian Lillard again, if I'm lucky enough
to do that, he's only going to be here for
a year, maybe not even a year, and somebody else
(44:07):
is going to come in and poach him and give
him more money or whatever, and he's gonna have to
leave for family and personal reasons, and so I'm gonna
always be swinging uphill. And that just seems like that's
what's happening now, is that the rich are trying to
get richer, and the other teams are trying to try
and keep up with them to see if they can
(44:28):
stay on that competitive landscape, and the whole transaction of
all that stuff, the fan, the interest just seems to
get way laid in the dust man.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
It is a wild time with things changing at a
rapid pace.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
If you missed it.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Cheron Moore has been fired by the University of Michigan
for an inappropriate relationship with a staffer.
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