THU POD @SpenceChecketts talking Private Equity, State of the Utes, TNF + more

Catch “The Drive with Spence Checketts” from 2 pm to 6 pm weekdays on ESPN 700 & 92.1 FM. Produced by Porter Larsen. The latest on the Utah Jazz, Real Salt Lake, Utes, BYU + more sports storylines.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, here we go drive time Thursday afternoon style.
We are looking at about ten minutes past the hour
of two o'clock. Another beautiful day man, well depending on
your weather preference, we are looking at about fifty four
degrees in sunny here in downtown Salt Lake City, Utah.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Good weekend ahead.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
All the tea times locally were snatched up rather quickly,
so shout out to all of you. A lot of
people going to be golfing this weekend as it's a
rare mid December fifty five plus weekend ahead with some
sunshine of the forecast as it is every day. It's
going to have you with us. Happy Thursday to you.
Spence Check. It's Beyond the Mic hosting the program today.

(00:41):
That is Porter Larson Beyond the Glass producing the show.
We got a good guest list for you guys to
get you ready or a busy weekend ahead in the
world of pro football that starts tonight with a Thursday
Night till between the Falcons and the Bucks. Atlanta has
been eliminated from the postseason. Tampa Bay trying to get
back on track. It's been a rough four weeks for
Baker Mayfield. He does get Mike Evans back tonight. Does

(01:02):
get Jalen McMillan back tonight as well. Mike Evans had
that collarbone injury Week seven and Jalen McMillan had that
really scary neck injury during the preseason. Speed stood it
hasn't played pretty much all regular season long, So NFL
gets roll tonight, big week ahead Week fifteen. We are
high speed ahead of the postseason, so a lot of
good NFL games on tap. About fifteen minutes before we

(01:26):
said good night last night, the news broke that Tron
Moore had been fired for cause at the University of
Michigan for an inappropriate relationship with a staffer. Well, it's
not funny, it's actually really sad on a lot of
different levels. About fifteen minutes after we signed off, I
get an alert on my phone that your own Moore

(01:47):
had been arrested and was in custody at the time.
I think it was the ann Arbor Police, and then
he was later transferred to Pittsfield, Charter Township in Michigan.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
He remains in custody.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
He will be a rain tomorrow at the court there
as he is in the jail at the I believe
it's the Washitaw County Jail and the Washertak County prosecutor
told the ESPN that it does not expect a decision
on whether to file criminal charges, but we will hear
a lot more tomorrow. But my goodness, this thing escalated

(02:23):
really quickly. There are a lot of very uncd rumors
out there that I will not speak to because I
just don't know what's real and what isn't based off
of folks on social media throwing some things out there
that are just bizarre. But this guy, man, it's not
just a decision that will lead to him losing a job.
He had about sixteen million dollars left on his contract.

(02:45):
I can't believe he's going to see any of that,
and I'm quite sure this is an assumption, but I'm
just gonna throw it out there. My guess is his
wife isn't like pumped about all this, so there's probably
a family implication. He, as a result of the inability
to control himself, has pretty much ruined his interim and
I don't know it's next for him. A lot of

(03:07):
people didn't think Sean Moore was equipped for that job anyway,
went nine to three this year, of course, was a
coordinator for a national championship team interim coach when Harbaugh
had to sit. Sean Moore was suspended himself for a
couple of games this year for his role in the
Connor Stallions signs stealing situation. There was a show cause

(03:28):
recruiting violation. The defensive coordinator for the Chargers, who a
lot of people think might get this job, actually still
has a show cause on him. The Jason Winter guy
who coaches for the Chargers. Now, he was one of
Harbaugh's coordinators at Michigan, and he still has a show
cause probation on him if he goes to coach college.
Calin de Boor's name is out there. Jed Fish his

(03:50):
name is out there. Of course, is the coach that
you dubbed. Both those guys have strong ties to the
University of Michigan, who has a very proud football program,
but for the past seven eight years has found itself
in hot water almost every single week. So a wild
soap opera type story unfolding in front of us in
Ann Arbor, Michigan, and if any details come our way

(04:12):
while we're on air, we will bring it to you.
The latest on the historic deal that was announced earlier
this week, broken by Ross Dellinger of Yahoo Sports, is
private equity is not just here in college athletics. It's
here in Salt Lake City with a partnership between the
University of Utah and Otro Capital. We've covered it on
the show the best we possibly could all week long.

(04:35):
How much of this money immediately will be infused into
the athletic department. I believe the first line of first
priority is first order of business is to service the
debt the Utah football and UTA athletics find themselves in.
Certainly not a problem that is exclusive to the University
of Utah. Most athletic departments across the landscape of the

(04:56):
country need to.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
Service a little debt.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
So my guess is that step number one maybe some
upgrades to the stadium and such. But some new details
continue to kind of surface about the structure and what
this is going to look like. So we'll bring the
latest to you on the program today. Utah Jazz are
back in action tonight. They're taking on the Memphis Grizzlies.
That is a road game for the Jazz. The Utah

(05:18):
men's basketball team will be back out of tomorrow a
home game against a a good opponent's Mississippi State out
of the sec BYU will be back at it after
comeback win over Clemson at the Garden, and obviously we
are high speed ahead to the college football bowl season
and playoff situation as well. Latest on some of the
transfer announcements that have been made for the Utes and

(05:42):
some of the rumors that are out there. Our friend
Jason Batakia from the Salt Lake Tribune has reported that
Bert Fickwin is expected to sign to return to the
University of Utah.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
That news out came down a few hours.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
Ago interest from multiple P four programs to enter the
portal and he's expected as on his contract to return
to the Utes later today. Shout out to our buddy
Jason Battakia from the Salt Lake Tribune.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
All right, first guest, right out of the gates.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
Man, we have a lot to get to on the
college football landscape. Kyle Bonagura, our buddy from ESPN, will
roll by as our first guest. We'll preview the weekend ahead,
including Thursday Night football with our buddy Sam bruck House,
Green Wave alum to Lane alum. So we'll have a
lot to talk to Sam about and then always enjoy
when I have an opportunity, certainly with a week like

(06:30):
this with sizeable news breaking for the University of Uta
Athletic Department, Doctor Hill, Doctor Chris Hill, liven studio for
an entire hour. Set your alarm. That's going to be
about three thirty. Our guys from Sports Court will stop
by today. It's a good day to have them in.
I would imagine we'll talk a little Shrian More. I
would imagine we'll talk a little Michael Jordan versus NASCAR.

(06:51):
That case was settled today after only nine days of deliberation,
I should say nine days of trial. NASCAR elected to
settle another win for Michael Jordan. A couple of NASCAR
teams suing NASCAR basically for their right to franchise, have
more equity and their own specific investments, and not have

(07:11):
to renegotiate their deal every time an Askar TV deal
comes up that has to be negotiated. So we'll get
okay with our friends in Sports Court today. It's Kyle
Bonnager at sam Brockhaus, Doctor Chris Hill little Sports Court
on a Thursday, Me Spence check.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
It's all of you, the great.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
Listeners, and that guy Porter Larson, who's producing the show,
So yo, fifteen minutes ten fifteen minutes after the right
before the show is about to end, you actually were like, hey,
Searan More just got fired. I'm like, okay, what how
did this happen? The information that you had proved to
be correct. I'm not sure where you were able to
get that from. But then I'm driving home and I

(07:46):
give this alert that Charon Moore is in police custody,
and the details that have started to emerge that apparently
he threatened to kill himself, told his wife that he
was done, and then broke into the home of the
staffer that he was having this affair with and allegedly
held a knife to her neck and said he was
going to end everything. And then he was arrested at

(08:06):
a church and he's being held with the potential charge
of assault, but no official charges have been filed. This story,
as Ron Burgundy would say himself, escalated rather quickly.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
It did. It did.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
There were rumblings about maybe an improper relationship that was
kind of it for the last couple of weeks on Twitter,
but for it to kind of culminate in what we
saw last night is just obviously chaotic, but super sad
and unfortunate that that guy wrapped a bunch of different

(08:41):
people into his little web of as you said, lack
of self control. So unfortunate for Michigan, unfortunate for mister Moore.
I hope the best for all those folks. But yeah'm
in a crazy story that provides plenty of fodder and
now plenty of fallout too.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yeah, and we'll continue to track it.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
He remains in a jail in Michigan and he will
be arragined officially in court tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
All right, we'll talk about this with Kyle.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
Kyle Bondeger is going to be our first guest on
a Thursday afternoon. But before we get to Kyle, courtesy
if our good friends, and you're good friends too at
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Speaker 4 (09:16):
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number one Sports Talk. Now into the studios of ESPN
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Speaker 2 (10:34):
It is good to be right. All right. A couple
things here.

Speaker 1 (10:38):
We add our guy, Trevor Riley in studio yesterday, and
we love our guy.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
That's our guy.

Speaker 1 (10:44):
Love trev Utah legend, NFL vets and very much looking
to get involved here to help the University of Utah
football program continue an upward trajectory.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
We're not sure.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
The information that we have at this point is that
I think what's going to coach the bowl game?

Speaker 2 (11:02):
At least we don't have anything official.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
I've seen some rumors floating out there, but nothing official
as of yet, so there's certainly kind of that thing
hanging out there. The signing day recruiting class storylines certainly
were something we covered quite a bit, as the Pula
twins were flipped They're going to BYU and obviously you
know the Celesti mooa flip from Tennessee to Utah was

(11:25):
good news. Utah, according to Rivals, has the eighth best
recruiting class, or I should just say the eighth ranked
recruiting class in the Big twelve and very mid table
when it comes to the Country, BYU third best recruiting
class in the Big twelve. West Virginia finished one, Texas
Tech finished two, and BYU finished three. Now, Trevor on

(11:46):
the show yesterday said that his understanding is currently Utah
Football has zero dollars in nil funds. I don't think
that's true. My guess is, Trevor is you know. Look,
Trevor has sources up there that I don't. I mean,
he talks to coaches and players with both Utah and
by You that I don't talk to on a daily

(12:07):
basis unless we're interviewing them, or I send a text
cong congratulatory text like happy birthday, good win, whatever it is.
But that's kind of surface level stuff. But Bert Ficklin
intends to sign a new deal to stay with the
Utes today and bird of course, when given his opportunity
throughout the course of the season, when Devin Dampier was

(12:27):
a little bit banged up, just looked like a really,
really dynamic option at quarterback. At some point when Devin
alects either leave or moves on and graduates. I haven't
heard anything official with Devin Dampier's signing, but all the
indications are he is going to be back as well.
So bird true freshman fifty six carries five hundred and

(12:48):
three rushing yards, ten rushing touchdowns. It felt like every
time he touched the ball, something very dynamic was going
to happen. But also I was thinking about this after
our conversation with Trev. Ben Moa came on Sean Show
last week after the news came down that his son
Celessie had flipped from Tennessee to Utah, and Sewn asked

(13:09):
him the question point blank. He didn't say, how much
money is Celessie getting to come to the University of Utah.
He just said, what sort of information can you share
about whether or not Utah can keep up in the end?
And I landspace and Ben said, and I quote, they
can keep up with anybody in the country. And the
reason that's important is that Celestie didn't flip from southern

(13:32):
Utah to Utah. Respectfully, He wasn't headed to Weber State
and decided to go to Utah.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
He was going to Tennessee.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
Tennessee has the seventh rank recruiting class in the country,
and the rumors were they were offering Nico iam Aliava
forty five million dollars to state. Now he ended up
in UCLA, at UCLA in Los Angeles, where he's from.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
But let's let's not get a twisted here.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
If Utah was really operating with zero dollars in the end,
I coffer so LESSI you wouldn't have flipped from Tennessee
to Utah. The obot kid from Idaho, who could have
gone anywhere, wouldn't have landed at Utah. And certainly Bert Ficklin,
who was receiving a ton of interest from other teams,
would not have stayed at Utah. And then we'll see

(14:16):
what happens with Devin Dampier, We'll see what happens with
some of the other players. I don't know exactly what
the number is. I just don't think it's as dire
as a lot of people are pointing out.

Speaker 5 (14:27):
Now.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
It leads us into essentially the two teams in the
Big twelve, because that's who Utah has to compete with
for now.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
And yes, you want to compete.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
With teams in the Big ten and in the SEC,
but until and hopefully you do get an invite to
play alongside those teams in the Big ten at some point.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
I know a lot of youth fans are hopeful.

Speaker 1 (14:47):
I can tell you a lot of youth staffers and
people up on the hill still view that as their
eventual landing spot, whether it's in a year or two,
or four or five, or who knows. You have to
look at your peers in the Big Twelve because that
has to be your number one priority. Obviously, you win
your conference, you go to the CFP, and you have
a chance to do something special. And by all accounts,

(15:08):
the two teams of the Big Twelve with the deepest
pockets as far as being able to pay their players,
Texas Tech and BYU, and they were the two teams
in Arlington playing for the conference championship this year, and
now right behind them was Utah, right and Utah was
a couple of maybe change decisions away from beating BYU
and Provo.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
You know they were right there.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
You get that win, and then it's you with the
opportunity to play Texas Tech for the Big Twelve championship.
Obviously that's not what transpired, so there's no need to
kind of relitigate that. But it brings us to the
announcement this week that Utah Athletics has consummated a partnership
with Outro Capital, a New York based sports private equity firm.

(15:53):
There's some misinformation and misnomer out there. Like I've been
laughing at people that I've been listening to talk about
this on other stations. It is it's like worth your
time to check it out because it's borderline hilarious how
dumb they are. And there are plenty of plenty of
pieces of information that are absolutely incorrect. The five hundred
million dollar figure is not a check written by Outro Capital.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
It's not a payday loan that will come do at
some point.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
That is spoken by people that don't understand the way
that UTA have structured this deal, and it screams that
Taylor Randall is behind this. And if there's one person
that you should trust, I mean, look, Mark Carlin's big,
good dust. He comes on the show and at times
it gets a little i would say combative because I'm
not afraid to ask Mark questions that nobody else will
ask him. And I'm sure at times he gets off

(16:40):
the phone and he's like f that guy. But he's
been good us. He comes on the show, he answers
the questions I ask him. But I know that there's
a little sentiment across the market, that's a little bit
split on Mark.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
All right, that's fine. Mark is going to be the
chairman of the board.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
The one guy that you should believe in on equivocally
is the president of the University Utah, and that is
Taylor Randall.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
He is sharp, he has measured.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
He would not have consummated this deal if he knew
that this was just a little bit of a cover
and he was going to have to pay the piper
in a couple of years in a way that's not
right for his athletic department, but more importantly his institution,
Taylor Randall and his motivation. Yes, part of it is
the athletic program, because that's an important part of the

(17:23):
University of Utah, and it's a very important part of
our community. And the revenue that's generated by the football
program is something that Taylor very much cares about. But
I don't know what percentage I would put it at
as far as the overall scope of his responsibilities and
what he has to focus on and what is important
to him is athletics ten percent of the pie?

Speaker 2 (17:43):
Is it even that?

Speaker 1 (17:44):
I don't know, But when I looked into the structure
of how this thing is done, and I want to
give this guy credit.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
Alexander Baker is his name.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
He wrote a substack on I guess it's his substack
called the Millennial Mandamus.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
As I believe is how you How you say that?

Speaker 1 (18:04):
And if you're looking for what I perceived to be
the best thing written about this, maybe just do a
Google search the Millennial Mandamus and this guy's name Alexander Baker.
It's not that long, but it's very detailed, and he
goes into extreme deal. I have to imagine this dude
is like a lawyer or a business owner, because he

(18:24):
goes into extreme detail about how this thing was set up,
how long Utah has been preparing for an opportunity like this,
Like there was like a little bit of a side
company set up to kind of absorb an LLC like
this back in twenty twenty two.

Speaker 2 (18:42):
And to me, this is Taylor.

Speaker 1 (18:43):
This is Taylor Randall, seeing around corners, seeing ahead of
everybody else, and understanding at some point they might have
to execute a deal like this, and they were ready
with their eyes dotted and their te's crossed. Now, as
I've talked about all week, I can't run from the
inevitable pitfalls and believe that this is something I could

(19:05):
spin to you to convince you that it's only good
because we simply don't know there There's actually a part
of me that believes that Utah undervalued their product, and
if that's the case, eventually this could come back to
bid them. I don't know what the valuation would be.
My guess is based off of the two seats Outro

(19:27):
has and the number five hundred million. Depending on how
much of that is OUTRO capital and how much of
that is local investors, my guess would be a valuation
would look something like one point two to one point
eight billion dollars, somewhere in that range. And I can
tell you if Utah gets a Big ten invite or
if in three to four years, and remember this is

(19:48):
important their exit strategy. Their plan is to exit in
five to seven years. That's not an accident for a
couple of reasons. The Big twelve TV deal will expose
around then. But the big kind of a white whale
that's out there is if at that point Utah either

(20:09):
gets a Big ten invite or if at that point
collegiate athletics in college football does move into an entire
pro model, the model that we talked about on this
show for five years where it looks a lot like
the AFC and the NFC in football, and there are
I don't know forty teams involved in that ecosystem. You
have two conferences of twenty apiece or whatever. If Utah

(20:32):
gets the invite to be a part of that, a
one point two to one point eight valuation will be
completely low, like entire, maybe maybe low by like a
billion dollars. Dude, I'm serious about that when you look
at the valuations of certain pro teams, when you look
at the valuations of what college teams will be able

(20:53):
to garner if this new reality becomes what we're all
kind of presented with. That's the one element of this
that I wonder if Utah undervalued the potential of what
their football program and athletic department could be worth down
the road.

Speaker 5 (21:08):
So if I.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
Inhale either Clorox or Live Solve, is there is there
a danger like you might have to pay closer attention
than you usually do if I just faint in here?

Speaker 2 (21:20):
Can you be ready to call the ambulance? I got you,
I will.

Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yeah, we're disinfecting the studio today for reasons that we'll
remain off air. About fifteen minutes before we signed off
last night, news broke that Shroon Moore had been fired
by the University of Michigan. And then as I'm on
my way home, I get the alert from ESPN that
he was in police custody. He will be arrained tomorrow,

(21:46):
and it escalated very very quickly. Our next guest covers
college football for ESPN, the great Kyle Bonnegura. So, I
guess never a dull moment in this weird sport.

Speaker 6 (21:56):
Yeah, yeah, I mean you always expect for them to
be there, to be one surprise coaching change, like when
you think the carousel has has stopped spinning. It's you know,
usually from the NFL or something like that, or a
surprise you retirement. You don't expect it to be something
like what we saw yesterday in Michigan, where Charon Moore
is is first fired and then ends up in jail

(22:18):
at the end of the day or or detained or
whatever it looks like at the end of the day.

Speaker 1 (22:23):
So give us the latest as you know it and
kind of how we got here, and help us understand
what you think comes next.

Speaker 6 (22:32):
Yeah, So there's a lot of moving pieces here and
a lot of it's coming in very quickly. So, I mean,
I guess the basics of it right that you know,
it's it's announced yesterday, you know, midday or kind of
late morning here on the West Coast that that More
was fired by the University of Michigan for cause, meaning
it wasn't you know, it wasn't because they went nine
and three and havn't really looked as up to the

(22:56):
Jim harbought standards fire for cousing, and it came out
that he had an inappropriate relationship with a university employee.
It appears to be, like you know, it appears to
be someone who worked directly for him, according to you know,
several reports about you know, having that personally verified myself,
right and uh, you know that was that was the

(23:18):
end of the end of the line for More. But
you know, apparently what happens after that is, you know,
he he's having some mental health issues and apparently you know,
there is for whatever transpirt it's it's still looking firm.
So I'm a little hesitant to kind of say that
I know this for fact, that it's out there for
people to kind of look into but but but it

(23:38):
has happened behind the scenes, for the police to be
brought in, for him to be detained, to him to
be held overnight, and now he is uh going to
a peering court on Friday for an arrangement. There's allegations
of assault. I think there's some suggestions of possible self
harm in a mix as well. It's just it's just

(23:59):
a mess. And it's also just, you know, one of
the more not only is in a mess, it's like
one of the more fascinating. Like days I can remember
following a story and just seeing how quickly it can
change over the course of you know, ten to fifteen
minutes at a time.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
So I think I read yet, excuse me, I think
I read he has like fifteen to sixteen mil left
on his contract and obviously the language of firing four
cause and then violating literally the university and their bylaws
and policies.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
Is there any chance he sees any of this?

Speaker 1 (24:29):
I mean, this is such as the kids would say, man,
he fumbled the bag hard, because it's not about just
losing a job. It's about losing the millions that are left.
Oh do you and I haven't heard from his wife.
My guess is she's not thrilled about the entire situation. Like,
on the on the scale of epically blowing something, this

(24:50):
has to be right up there with anything we could
think of when it comes to the way he has
absolutely botched not his job, but potentially his life. I mean,
I would imagine he would lawyer up to try to
recoup some of those funds, But does he have even
a leg to stand on there at all?

Speaker 6 (25:07):
Yeah, I mean it seems pretty clear that he violated
the university policy and in like the morals clause and
all of that. And look, I think his response that
he ended up in jail at the end of the day,
detained by police, you know, probably a pretty good sign
that you know, he like something is not? Is that
right there? I mean it's it is funny though, because

(25:28):
it's like, oh, what's the best How far back do
we have to think about something where a coach lost
their lost their job over you know, sexual impropriety or
something adjacent, And oh yeah, like mel Tucker at Michigan
State just a couple of years ago also bumbled the bag.
I mean, there are both guys who who Tucker? I

(25:49):
think he was. He had several more millions left on
his contract, but yeah, you know, I think to your question, like,
I don't think he'll recruit that money. I think he's
probably more concerned with staying at jail at this point,
considering how that day progressed.

Speaker 1 (26:04):
So as far as I mean, I think the name
everybody you know kind of landed on right away was
Calin de Boor, who has a pretty decent job in Tuscaloosa.
Jesse Winter is the Chargers defensive coordinator who is there
with Harba, but he has a show cost on him.
Still I'm I'm not laughing because it's funny. I'm laughing
because it's ridiculous. And then Jeb Fish, who's the coach

(26:26):
you Dubb who was at Michigan as well. Where does
Michigan go from here and how do they avoid getting
Penn stated.

Speaker 6 (26:34):
Yeah, that's a good question. I mean with the Boor,
I think for me, the Boor makes sense and that
like Michigan should be interested in Dbor, But like, I
just don't know why the Boor would be interested in
Michigan at that point. It hasn't gone kind of according
to plan right at Alabama so far, but you know,
he's in the middle of preparing for the playoffs. Maybe
if they lose, I guess it changed the dynamic a

(26:55):
little bit, But look, that's it's still a you know,
they play next week's say they win in their first game,
they beat Oklahoma like that, that's that's a while to
wait for a guy who's not a guarantee. Like that
doesn't seem realistic for me. I just don't know why
Kalin would would want to leave from Michigan. Michigan has
just been a mess up and down for several years
now with with everything that's going on, and that would

(27:18):
really surprise me. I mean, the the the other options are.
I mean, like you said, moving from Washington, I don't
think would be like for Jed to leave Washington to
go back to Michigan. He was also on that Hardbot
stuff for a little while. I could see that happening.
I mean, he jumped quick from Arizona because it's a

(27:39):
kind of a step up. Michigan would obviously be, you know,
a step up in terms of prestige nashally for him,
Does he want to start over again so quickly to
jump into that toxic situation in Michigan. You know, maybe
the money also speaks, or I'll certainly would command more
in ann Arbor than he does currently in Seattle. But
if you're Washington or if you're in Michigan, right, is
that like does that stisfy the fan base? Like, is

(28:02):
Jedfish going to be the guy who you can sell
to your alumni and your donors and say, hey, we're
back We're going to start competing for national titles again immediately.
I don't think that's the case. I think Jud's a
very good coach in Washington should be competitive in the
Big Ten for a while, but they haven't been great
the last two years. There was certainly a little bit
of a a rebuild there when when Kylen left, and

(28:24):
you have to kind of level set to his extent.
The lost some players Alabama and all of that, but
it's not you know, they haven't been a serious threat
in the conference so far. So like the immediate satisfaction
of what he did there, it would have to be
a sim It would be a similar type of situation
going to Michigan. So I don't know that that that
for me, doesn't seem like a higher that would satisfy

(28:46):
the fans, and how do they avoid Penn State? Then
you stay it get it gets nicey right because the timing,
it's it's so difficult to make a good hire when
the timing is what it is obviously all the big
you know, Penn State is a similar has been a
similar spot, and that he would certainly appeal to the
same sorts of candidates. But he's like Clark, We're gonna
leave for Michigan if he wasn't gonna leave for for

(29:07):
for Penn State, living Vanderbilt, like Signette, he's not going
to leave Indiana right now. I mean, who else passes
the past the test. It's it's it's an interesting question.

Speaker 5 (29:16):
I know.

Speaker 6 (29:16):
I was looking at adm Rittenberg's kind of list of
possibilities and I was like, wow, that's They're in a
tough spot because like none of these like seemingly realistic options.
Are are guys that are like, no doubt, yeah, this
is the obvious choice that one would be just in
two would be like satisfactory for the fans on.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
The scale of you know, we talked about this after
Lane Kiffin took the LSU job and said, in his opinion,
it's the best job in America. Where does Michigan lie?
Generally speaking, I'm not asking you for like, hey, top
ten tweet at us. I'm just like, generally speaking, what
sort of job is Michigan as a result of everything
that's already gone down?

Speaker 6 (29:53):
Yes, I think, I mean it's it's up there. I
mean I would say, you know, if you if you're
doing it in tiers, like I think it's a tier
one job. I mean, they just won the national title
a couple of years ago, And I think that's how
you kind of like, I think it's there's different ways
to how to kind of answer that is that one
is like I think it's generally accepted as like what
places are you best positioned to win a national title?

Speaker 5 (30:14):
Right?

Speaker 6 (30:14):
And like you know, they're certainly in the mix because
they just did it.

Speaker 5 (30:17):
It can be done.

Speaker 6 (30:18):
There's history there, there's resources, there's a stadium, they're in
the Power Conference, they have they have a recruiting base, right,
they like they check all the boxes for being right
there at the top and know whether it's better than
Texas or George or I don't know. I think at
that point it becomes more of a personal preference deal.
Like you know, Michigan. For Jim Harbaugh was the better

(30:38):
was the best job because it gave him all the
opportunities to win a national title and he had the
personal connection. But for but for Kirby Smart, you know
that place is Georgia, Nick Saban, it ended up being
a couple of places, but but Alabama was certainly like
the place that he would have never left. And so, yeah,
I think, can you wish win a national title? Is
the is the number one question to ask when we're

(30:59):
talking about best job, And I think it's you know,
it's in the mix. So but but again, like personal
preference fit those sort of things, and that's why there's
not really an obvious guy right now.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
There seemed to be this narrative around Sharon Moore because
the reality is even without and you I cannot say
without what's happened over the past twenty four hours because
that's clearly the most damning thing about him. But there
was a recruiting show cause you can roll your eyes
on that because apparently they were talking to recruits during
COVID and Harbor about them cheeseburgers or something. Harbaugh was suspended,

(31:32):
Sharon Moore was suspended as a result of as involvement
with the Connor Stallions sign stealing thing, and then just
a general kind of narrative among a lot of fans
that maybe he was a step down from Harbaugh, who
might be the best football coach in the game, let
alone college or pro. So maybe that's not entirely fair,
But what was just sort of the general sentiment about
Sharon Moore prior to the chaos that's happened over the

(31:55):
past twenty four hours.

Speaker 6 (31:57):
Yeah, I mean I don't think he ever had I mean,
he has this reputation for had this reputation as like
this up and comer, right, a guy who was who
was moving through the through the landscape quickly. You know,
Harbaugh really liked him, and if you know, you know
Harball likes ether, that carries some weight, right. I think
it was almost like a he was the recommendation to
take over after they had so much success. Man, I

(32:19):
think it it skews it a little bit, right, because
when you have as much success as Michigan had, you
want to kind of like keep the momentum going, like
stick to what worked. And because they won the national
title and then off their coach, which is just a
strange dynamic in the first place, you kind of look inward.
I mean it worked for Stanford when Harbaugh left to
go to the forty nine ers, they hired David Shaw,
who had a nice run, so kind of just keeping

(32:40):
things as close to the status quo as possible. But
there was enough change at Michigan where it wasn't the
same prog gim me a like you pointed, there's the
cheating scandal. Of course was a big part of that,
and then one they are. The other part is like
you know, uh, Ohio State being the rival and I
had dominated that rivalry for so long, and then when

(33:02):
Michigan finally swung it okay, I think Sharon Moore was
looked at as hey, he was part of the crew
that ended the streak against I was high of state
that that carries weight there. But I think kind of
lost all in this and maybe not maybe not totally.
I think it's it's it's catching some momentum today is
ward man Will probably shouldn't be the athletic character at

(33:22):
Michigan anymore. Like how many scandals can one athletic department
endure Before you point the finger at the guy who
sits atop the entire org chart. I mean it was
it was reported today that wardman Will was aware of
this relationship that Sharon Moore had with the staffer as
far back as the summer, and you know, it's it's

(33:42):
interesting that they weren't able to finally pull the plug
on it until yesterday. What does that say about his leadership?
If he was the investigation, did they not push hard enough?
Was he aware? Like there's a lot of other questions
that I think he has to answer to. And given
the level of the embarrassment this time around, you know,
he he kind of had his second chance to kind
of navigate in the wake of the cheating scandal, and

(34:06):
now with another one. He hired Sharon Moore. He was
the one who made that decision. Should he be given
another opportunity? Probably not? And so then what do you
do who hires the coach at that point? And how
does that change the time and of everything?

Speaker 1 (34:20):
All Right, big news around these parts this week, Kyle,
where I think initially it was Ross Dellinger from Yahoo,
and then of course you guys picked up on it,
and Dan Wetzel's written about it. The guys at the
Athletic have covered it, and you and I have discussed
the potential of private equity making its way into college
football for a long time and wasn't sure who would
be first to the table. Thought it might be a conference,

(34:41):
as the Big Ten appeared to be close to it.
Then Brett Yormark reportedly was into it. Well, it turns
out that it's going to be a team first to
the table, and that team plays their football a mile
and a half where you and I are talking right
now is the University of Utah astruck a deal with
Outro Capital, a New York based sports private equity firm.
As you can imagine, it's been the drive topic on
the show all week. Doctor Chris Hill will join us,

(35:03):
who was the ad up there for a number of years,
in a little bit. But what's your initial reaction, uh
to to this and you know, any thoughts on what
it means for the football program and the athletic department
here in Utah.

Speaker 6 (35:16):
Yeah, I think the kind of gut reaction here is
this is interesting, right, it's new. It's different. Whether it's
good or bad. I don't I mean, I just don't
have a great sense of that yet because I'm I
am skeptical that it's going to be a game changer
over Like, obviously infusion of cash is big, and maybe
there's some noteworthy differences right away, but I'm also a

(35:38):
little bit skeptical to uh kind of buy into the
idea that, look, these guys know how to do this
better than the people who have been doing it, right.
I mean, there's some at the I guess it's Otro
Capital is there's this organization that they've that they're in
partnership with now and there I was reading about some
of the executives. They have some you know interesting uh

(36:00):
you know, interesting cvs working in different facets of competitive sports.
A lot of you know NFL guys, some international soccer
stuff f one I saw. So there's like a lot
of complex backgrounds that people can maybe some bring some
new ideas to the table. But again, like is it
going to be are you going to unlock something so
new and revolutionary that I that UTAH couldn't have done

(36:23):
by itself. I don't necessarily think that's that's really the case.
Maybe if you're able to streamline some things, but how
much of a difference will that really make?

Speaker 5 (36:31):
You know?

Speaker 6 (36:32):
Time will tell. I think it's the money that they're
getting up front, that they're able to, you know, put
towards different projects that will kind of jump start things.
And they're hoping that like if they're able to add
this investment and over time, maybe they'll speed up where
they are in terms of where they operate. So super fascinating.
I need to do a lot more reading and talking
to people about the specifics of it and where to

(36:55):
look for change immediately over the next couple of years,
but certainly fast. And it's justly because it's Utah team
that a school that follow very closely, So it's certainly
something that I'll be probably doing quite a bit of
reporting amount here in the next couple months.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
So the reports are initially and nobody really seems to
know exactly how much money is coming in right away
and how much will come over time. But the understanding
most people have out here is that the UTA Athletic
Department has to service a significant amount of debt and
that's what the money will be used for initially, and

(37:30):
then maybe some arena upgrades, some stadium upgrades. The Huntsman
Center needs to be upgraded worse than my nineteen thirteen
Sugar House Bungalow I mean, there's so many things they
have to do to that arena, and then Rice Eckels
could probably use a little touch up here or there.
But in the course of kind of learning about this
and the reporting of a lot of really smart college
football people, you start to learn that Utah is far

(37:52):
from the only athletic department that has serious debt, namely
Ohio State who made about two hundred and sixty million
last year and report to the debt of thirty seven mili.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
And that's just the tip of the iceberg. We could
list most.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
I don't know if most is accurate, but it appears, Kyle,
that college athletics doesn't have a revenue generating problem, but
they have a spending problem when you look at the numbers.
I mean, the Big Ten for the better part of
fifteen years has been essentially going about their business of
coaching teams and killing leagues in the name of just
generating revenue for their conference only and they're out of money,

(38:26):
like they're talking to private equity. Your thoughts on this, Like,
the spending issue in college athletics seems to be what's
getting in the way, not the you know, generating revenue issue.

Speaker 6 (38:38):
It feels like we've we've heard that there's a money
issue for you know, a decade, maybe even longer, and
yet coaching salaries Keith continue to increase. Now you have
the NIL component, it requires significant investment. I mean, Recycles
had a major renovation, you know, not that long ago,
and that's common at a lot of places where they're
spending tens fifty, you know, one hundred million dollars or

(38:59):
more on stadium improvements that you know come from various
fees and whatnot. But yeah, look, I think it's very
clear that they don't need this money. They just want
to spend. And there's this idea that you have to
keep up with the guy next to you in order
to be competitive, which I'm not really sure is the case.
I think that I was. I think when it was

(39:21):
I think NIL has changed everything because I think when
it was, hey, we need to have a stadium, a
nicer stadium, we need to have nicer locker rooms, we
need to have all these amenities to help appeal to
athletes during the recruiting process. Like that for me, made
a lot of sense. But now that NIL is far
and away the most significant factor in luring some of

(39:43):
these top recruits, you know, I think like how nicer
locker room is probably as not important as it was
you know, six, seven, ten years ago, right, And so
a lot of that money and those resources have to
be diverted. And so if you don't have a nice
locker roo, but you're fully funded with nil and you're
doing everything you can to make sure that your roster

(40:04):
is as good as possible, I think, because that's the
number one factor, right And in terms of generating revenue
on the back end, are you winning games and are
you going to You're winning games if you're investing in
your roster, And I think it's become very straightforward in
that sense. It's very much more like a pro model
than it was before. So all of that makes this
so complex because if you're you're adding this private equity

(40:28):
money with the goal of what to make more money
or to win more games? Is it all tied up
into one pot? Like how do you like where are
the priorities? And again for me, it's it's not really clear.
But certainly Utah and other places have a spending issue.
Cal's been in debt for a long time, not because
of spending for things that they don't need, but they

(40:49):
had to do a massive like stadium earthquake rent retrofit. Right,
So there's like a lot of different factors that are
in player. So again we keep hearing about my any issues,
and yet it seems like they continue to spend more
money exponentially year after year.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
All right, Kyle, before I say you loose, we are
just weeks away now from the World Cup, and if
you're a fan of the US men's national team, I'm
not sure that you could be more happy with this draw.

Speaker 5 (41:20):
Now.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
There are a lot more teams, and so you know,
when you look across the landscape of the groups, and
a lot of lots has been written about this as
a result of kind of the oversaturated nature of how
many teams are in the tournament, there doesn't appear to
be And I know soccer fans hate when you use
the term group of death, but typically that's been a
thing that you look at where and maybe it's England, Croatia, Goda, Panama.

(41:41):
I think that's getting the most attention. But the US
finds themselves in groove d along with Paraguay and Australia,
two teams they've played recently had beaten and then the
winner of playoff paths C And I'm not going to
pretend I'm smashing tape on Turkey soccer.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
So I don't know who that's going to be.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
But based off of what we know now, well, what
should be a reasonable expectation for the US men's national
team in the World Cup.

Speaker 6 (42:07):
I had a sense that it was going to be
like this. The numbers just it was the amount of teams,
like you said, like it was going to say, it
was going to water down the group. So it was
never a question of like could they or should they get.

Speaker 5 (42:18):
Through the group?

Speaker 6 (42:19):
Like there isn't a group in here. If you swap
a pot A team with the United States, where they
wouldn't have the expectation wouldn't have been to get through.
It's about getting further than you ever had before, right,
And so it wasn't even about getting through the round
of thirty two. I mean, if you look at last
World Cup, they made it to the round of sixteen
and tot draw against the Netherlands. So for me, that's
the starting point. Okay, sixteen is like that's the bare

(42:41):
minimum to be like, hey, this is about probably where
the United States should fall. If you know, nine times
out of ten. That's probably like where they probably deserve
to be is the round of sixteen. I think that's
the case again here just in terms of you know,
they're not one of the best eight teams in the world, right,
but they're also not you know, but I think on

(43:02):
home soil, sixteen is is the baseline. So if you
advance past that, I think it's a success. If you
don't get to the round of sixteen, it's a failure.
And I think, you know, sixteen is just right. I
think being at home makes it, you know, heightens expectations
a bit and that you you should kind of out
punch your weight class a bit, and if you can

(43:23):
get a favorable draw, you know, the quarterfinals would be
an overwhelming success because it would match the you know,
match the best finish they've had in a modern World Cup.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
Well excited for It's gonna be fun to have it
in the region. Are you going to try to get
to any matches.

Speaker 6 (43:40):
Still to be determined, if I'm going to be involved
in or hey for how I'll be involved in our
in our covers this time around, or if I'll just
try to go still see games as a fan. We
got some time to figure that stuff out, but certainly
we'll be playing very close attention. However, however that plays out,
all right.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
Man, Thanks for the time. Have a great weekend. We'll
chat soon.

Speaker 5 (43:59):
Sounds good too.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
Bonnegar covers college football and soccer for ESPN. He's on
Twitter at Bonnager at ESPN is where you find him.
ESPN seven hundred and the Rocky Mountain Chevy Dealers invite
you to help those at the road home this holiday
season with needed blankets, coach shoes, hats and gloves. Drop
off donations at any Rocky Mountain Chevy dealer. Visit ESPN
seven hundred, sports dot com for dealer locations. Spread the

(44:21):
warmth and help others find their way home and join
us at the Midvale Road Home. Media thon on December
the eighteenth through the nineteenth Thursday Night Football Tonight to
start your weekend in the NFL, we'll have a little
Tampa Bay Atlanta. Really good slate, though, really good slate.
Excited for the weekend ahead in the NFL. But we
have to welcome out our favorite too latee Alum, you

(44:42):
might have some bragging to do today.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
Hello, Sam Broadcasts, How are you, sir?

Speaker 5 (44:47):
I'm doing good. I'm doing a lot better that the
Green Wave are making their first college football Playoff appearance.
And you know, I think we have as many as
Louisiana State University right now. So I'm not here to
say we may be Louisiana top dog, but I think,
at least as it stands now, we are.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
I think you should take that Moniker quite frankly, you know,
on a serious note, help us understand how big of
a deal this is for a program like Tulane that
historically speaking, has not existed in this ecosystem.

Speaker 5 (45:19):
I think it means a ton, obviously, but I think
it's more of a testament to the investment and the
innovation of what Tulane has done. Tulane basically, about four
or five years ago, ironically, after a pretty tough hurricane
in Southeast Louisiana which put most of the team staying
in an under construction hotel in Birmingham, Alabama for about

(45:42):
four months, they sat down and tried to figure out
how they were going to rebuild a program that was
two and ten. And they looked at the structures of
NIL and the way that the G five P five
split works, and they decided that they were going to
have one of the most professional outfits both in house
and outside of house, with the collective when it comes
to NIL, that they were going to make smart coaching decisions.

(46:05):
Obviously that's a little bit of a rolling roll of dice,
but John Summerl worked out that that was a guy
who was previously at Tulane understood the culture of New Orleans.
They now move on to Will Hall, who coached me.
I owe a ton. He understands Tulane, he understands how
to recruit there. And I think the operation of what
Tulane has done, and to other degrees at Utah for example,

(46:28):
BYU Texas Tech, some of these teams who aren't necessarily
absolute powerhouses look at their situation and because of how
the NCAA has kind of managed itself lately, they're able
to find a niche and able to win really big
and be able to consistently win. I think that Tulane

(46:49):
is kind of just a program that will run itself.
Obviously there may be some down years, but at this
point they have the backing, they have the boosting, they
have the people in the right places. You're going to
be able to get talent there now, and I think
that's more of a testament to the process than necessarily
just one or two good years.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
And you know, look, Ole Miss is a seventeen point
five point favorite, but look like they lose their coach.
You know, I think Charlie Watch Junior is going to
go back and call plays. And obviously Twu Lane's a
big time underdog. But I think on the like James
Madison is like a twenty two point dog. It could
have been worse, right, Like, how do they keep this
close and maybe shock the world?

Speaker 5 (47:29):
Yeah, I think this is our best matchup from a
structural perspective, and ironically, I think for two Lane it's
it's very opposite of what Ole Miss is. Ole Miss
from a high level perspective is kind of fractured and
there's a lot of chaos, and Tulane's kind of in
the same position. However, they've kind of rallied together and
made this almost like the Last Dance where John Summerle

(47:51):
is in Gainesville right now, I believe, but will Haul
the new head coach who is on staff is running
the ship. Also, player led practices know what to do.
A bunch of those guys are gonna transfer out. Look
like I'm not the wiser there. I know how this
game goes nowadays, and I think us banding together off
the field as an ex player means a lot more.

(48:12):
It's gonna be interesting to see how Ole miss and
particularly on those scripted plays, like you mentioned, how they're
gonna look, because if they don't look good on those
scripted plays, if we're able to take advantage of them
in the first fifteen to twenty plays of the game,
I think we have a real shot of winning that
game if we get up about fourteen. Now, they are
more talented than us. Trinidad Chamblie, the quarterback has played
extremely well this year. Our weakness on offense is their

(48:36):
weakness on defense, So not really a place to take
advantage of them there in terms of the run game,
and their offense is just very good. The question becomes
is that Lane Kiffin or is that the offensive coordinator?
Or is that the team? Is it everything firing on
the same wavelengths, So typically, like I'd like to pick
out one thing that I want to watch and I

(48:56):
think it's going to take away. I think it's those
scripted plays. The first twenty twenty five plays, of the
game on both sides. If we are able to get
seven to ten points and hold them on one of
their drives, I think this could be a very very
good matchup for the Waves.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
Look Sam as a man in his mid forties, and
I'll say mid forties.

Speaker 2 (49:15):
I think I have one more year till I have
to lean into the late forties.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
I am hoping to see Philip Rivers start a quarterback
for the Indianapolis Colts coming up this Sunday, for all
of us that are aging and believe that maybe we
still have some gas left in the tank, it would
be quite a story.

Speaker 2 (49:31):
Is it really?

Speaker 1 (49:32):
Do you think it's really a possibility that he gets
the call to start for the Colts coming up against
Jacksonville on Sunday?

Speaker 5 (49:39):
It seems to be for the reason that it seems
like to have nobody else who wants to come play
for him. There talks with Sam Ellinger allegedly being considered
to be grabbed off the Practic squad. He remains on
the Broncos. Leonard is hurt, Richardson has hurt, Jones is hurt.
So it seems as if, in a pinch, a three
day kind of loop is their best option. The problem is,

(50:02):
when I was analyzing the Colts, like five or six
weeks ago, I was looking at their schedule, I was
looking at the trends of their team, and Daniel Jones
could have been completely healthy. I still thought that they
were going to lose out. They go up against the
Seahawks team that is venomous and dangerous and angry for
most games, and I don't know if that's the best

(50:24):
standpoint for a forty four year old quarterback who is
popping off of the headset down there with his kids
and now jumping into a helmet and playing against one
of the most just absolutely beast defenses in the national
football like Frankly, that we've seen in a couple of years.
They shut Matt Stafford down, who's around that age, quite easily,

(50:47):
and Matt Stafford might be the MVP. I don't think
it's gonna look great for Philip Rivers if these steps
on the field. But I gotta say, you know that
man has he has some fortitude, let's say that, and
he's clearly a game He's been that his whole career,
so he's going to try to make it happen. But
I don't think it's going to look great for the
Colts offense if he is a major part of the

(51:07):
game plan.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
A lot of awesome games this weekend.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
I don't know that tonight's one of them, but you
know it's on our radio station, so it should be
kind about the product.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
Baker. Mayfield's had a rough month or so.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
The Falcons are eliminated from the postseason. What's the most
intriguing thing to you about Falcons bucks Thursday Night Football?

Speaker 5 (51:26):
Yeah, I think you got to look at this game
and the kind of slug race when it really comes
down to it. Neither of these teams are fantastic as
it stands right now. Between Tampa Bay and Carolina is
really interesting. Carolina has been doing it with defense in
the running game. Tampa, like you said, Banker has been
immensely banged up. Frankly, most of their team has been

(51:48):
immntly banked up, banged up.

Speaker 2 (51:49):
Throughout the season.

Speaker 5 (51:51):
What Atlanta has been able to do is make big
plays on defense, and sometimes that looks great and then
sometimes it looks awful. If they're able to get the
big plays against Baker, I think they take this victory.
I really want to look at what that wide receiver
room looks like I think this the Bucks team, for
better or worse, has the core pillars of a good team.
They have two good tackles, they have multiple good wide receivers,

(52:13):
two good running backs, of good play caller, a quarterback
who went healthy, can have some juice, and some good
pieces on defense. I think they just have to take
this game as one where they can get over on somebody,
and I don't know exactly if they're going to be
able to do that. I think it could be a
tough matchup for him tonight.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
All right, let's move over to some of the more
exciting matchups. Let's do Chargers Chiefs, because of course everybody
wants to know what's up with the Chiefs, and I
believe the playoff percentage this point is twelve percent, So
if they don't get it done coming up tomorrow morning,
they're probably cooked. And the Chargers are really solid team.
They got Amaron Hampton back last week. So two prong questions.

(52:48):
Your thoughts on the game and what ultimately has gone
south for what really has been a dynasty for the
better part of six seven years now.

Speaker 5 (52:56):
My thoughts on the game really tie into my thoughts
on this team that the team seems to be coming
together except for a few backbreaking plays that last year
went their way literally every single time. And when you
are a dynasty, when you are a top team in
the league, you play a difficult schedule. That's how the
NFL works, and they are in a difficult division as well,

(53:18):
and so you got to have some of those breaks.
And I think this is just the year from heck
for the Kansas City Chiefs. If you were to go
look at what we as analysts like to call the
Pythagorean win theory, which looks at point differential. Other people
use it using EPA and there's multiple different models. But
the Chiefs, you would expect them to be one of

(53:38):
the best teams in the league, but they just have
had terrible bounces, missed field goals type games that they
weren't able to win, so forth and so on, Trevor
Lawrence falling on his butt being able to get back
up and score a touchdown in the close game. So
this is a really anomalous year. You look at the
Chiefs offense, their fifth and expected points out of for play.
Their defense looked really good last week and basically got

(54:00):
them back into the game, and I think that's the
key standpoints against the Chargers, who have just been able
to win games. That's what Jim Harball does. He wins games.
It's looked pretty pretty gnarly, But when it comes down
to it, if Kansas City's defensive line is able to
recreate the performance that they had last week, where it
looked like everyone was getting shot out of the cannon

(54:21):
over and over again, I think they should take this
game because Justin Herbert is immensely banged up and they
have little to no talent on that offensive line right now,
or at least it's tough to get that O line ready,
I'll say. And I think if they're able to take
advantage of Justin Herbert in a way that shockingly we
saw the Eagles do but they weren't able to really
drill it down on the other side of the ball,

(54:42):
I think the Chiefs are going to be able to
get it done on the other side of the ball.
So I like the Chiefs in this game.

Speaker 1 (54:46):
Don't know that anybody really wants to win that AFC
North and tomorrow we've got Ravens Bengals. Ravens have lost
a couple of straight games after it looked like they
were just going to roll through and get the thing.
And the Bengals have Burrow back and they're basically dead.
But Madi Python not dead yet dead. So what do
you make of this matchup?

Speaker 5 (55:04):
This is a tough one. I think you look at
that output of the Bengals on offense and that is
going to stress a defense that has been really inconsistent
all year, whether that's analytically or just by the eye test.
And I think that this is going to have to
need to be a high scoring game if the Ravens
want to win. We haven't seen the Ravens being able
to put up high scoring games. I think Lamar is

(55:27):
pretty banged up. I think we're going to hear after
the season that he's dealing with multiple injuries. We're not
seeing the athleticism on our tracking data that we have
seen in previous years from Lamar. It's showing up in
his rushing statistics, it's showing up in his scrambled statistics,
and I think, you know, you gotta score when you're
going up against Joe Burrow and Jamaar.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
Chase T.

Speaker 5 (55:50):
Higgins, I believe is in concussion protocol. So that's going
to be a major loss for them. But when it
comes down to it, this needs to be a high
scoring game for the Ravens to win, and I frankly
don't know if they're going to be able to do it.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
All right, Bill's Patriots.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
You know, every weekend you kind of wait for the
Patriots to come back down to earth. You've been good
to remind us of kind of the topsy turvy nature
of the Bills during the regular season.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
Then they just kind of end up figuring it out.

Speaker 1 (56:14):
But we sit here at this point, and I don't
know how many people called this.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
If anybody did, I didn't read it or hear about it.

Speaker 1 (56:20):
With the Patriots or the commanding lead in the AFC East,
we'll talk about your Dolphins little bit, because you need
a little love for your boy, Mike McDaniel.

Speaker 2 (56:28):
But what do you make of a massive AFC East clash? Here?

Speaker 5 (56:33):
We got vintage Josh Allen last week, and I got
to say, whether you look at the advanced statistics where
his expected points at, it is very good. However, he
does not have like the sheer reps that he's had
in previous years. They actually haven't asked him to do
a lot when you look at what he's really done
on the field via r Suomer scores, which look at

(56:53):
every tenth of a second on a play and try
to make an evaluation by learning the relationships between all
the players. He has had just like a quality starter season,
We're not seeing an MVP season from him. I do
think he will end up making the Pro Bowl, and
we discuss that on our Pro Bowl Suomer Sports show
this week, and I got to say, shockingly, there are

(57:14):
a lot of Patriots who are playing good. I think
Drake May is the MVP this year. If I had
a vote, I would be voting for Drake May for MVP.
They have guys across the offensive line Morgan, Moses, Mike
could win you who are playing extremely well. They got
guys across the defensive backfield that are playing really well,
Jalen Hawkins at the safety position. This is just the
team who has been able to put players in the

(57:36):
right place over and over and over again this year,
and as a result, I really think they are a
true contender. I think there's a lot of value in
them as the Super Bowl champion. If you want to
go check out those odds. I think there's a lot
of value, and I think people look at the Bills
and look at the Chiefs, who may not even make
the playoffs. But if some of those other asse teams

(57:58):
catch the breaks that I expect them to break downward.
This is the Patriots cakewalk to the super Bowl. I
think that's definitely in the odds. Now Mont Dolphins, as
you mentioned, all of a sudden winning games, offense is
starting to creep up. Andy Weavers defense is starting to
creep up. Do I think they're for real? No? I

(58:18):
think they're probably an average team that can give pretty
much any team in the league problems due to their
scheme advantage with Andy Weaver and Mike McDaniel. So I
think this is a Patriots cakewalk, and I think the
Patriots are gonna pull it out. I think They're going
to really test that Nickel defense of the Buffalo Bills,
and I just don't think they're gonna be able to
hang with them for four quarters.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
You think McDaniel has saved his job, I mean you
joined us about a month month and a half ago
when there was all this noise around him, and you
made a very interesting case for why he should be
retained and felled at one point people were talking about
it like in the past, tense, like, hey, he'll be
great at his next opportunity. But winning four straight, you
think he's kind of saved his gig.

Speaker 5 (58:58):
Yeah, I just like, don't you know how they can
get rid of him? I feel like he's going to
get hired as an offense coordinator head coach immediately. And
when you have a guy in the room like that,
particularly if you are considering looking for a quarterback or
need someone to make Tutanga Bwailoa usable, there's not a
better guy that will be available this year than Mike McDaniel.

(59:21):
And I think that's a real underrated story going into
this offseason, is that there's not a lot of clear
head coaching candidates. I think you think of Shula with
the Lams, maybe Jesse Mentor with the Chargers, but the
offensive coordinator pool right now is mostly guys who have
been retreads. I think Joe Brady is the only one
who has not been a head coach, but he has

(59:43):
been fired from the Panthers ends up going to the
Bills having some success. Clint Kubiak has been the offensive
coordinator for several different situations. Brian Daball just got fired
as a head coach. There's just not a lot of
great There's not a lot of great offensive young talent
in the coaching pool right now. Barry is another name
who has come up. He's bounced around the league, fired
as a head coach, now an offense coordinator for a

(01:00:04):
team that's struggling but keeping themselves alive offensively to a
certain degree. And so I just don't think it makes
sense for a team that has a clear scheme advantage
every single week, both on offense and on defense with
Andy Weaver, to go at different direction. The scenario has changed.
My previous argument was that if they are going to

(01:00:25):
be a terrible team, you'll want to bring a quarterback
into that situation. I think now it becomes if you
are bringing a mid first round, mid second or third
round quarterback into a situation where potentially he can take
over for to a tongue boiloa via injury or just
via poor performance, I still think you want Mike mcdagiad
to man that ship.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
Got a cross conference matchup in Mile High that will
be very highly watched in our market with Jordan Love
and the Green Bay Packers taking on Bonnicks and the
Denver Broncos, who have won ten straight games. A lot
of excitement about the Broncos, and of course Jordan played
his college ball.

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
About forty min north of here.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
Two teams that are high speed ahead of the postseason,
maybe playing for a buy.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
What do you like most about Packers Broncos.

Speaker 5 (01:01:07):
I think the matchup to watch in this game is
Keishawn Nixon versus Cortland Sutton. We have Keishaw Nixon as
one of the best quarterbacks in the league this year
according to our summer scorers, and Courtland Sutton is a
borderline pro bowler according to our metrics, and I think
it's really going to come down to that matchup. If
Courtland Sutton is able to get open quickly, especially with

(01:01:28):
a defense that is extremely good at getting pressure, I
don't think they're going to be able to sack bo
Knicks as usual. Bo Knicks never get sacked. One of
the best sackaboying quarterbacks in the league, frankly the entire
engine of that offense, quite literally. But if Courtland Sutton's
able to get open have a big game against Kishawn Nixon,
I think that this game could open up in a

(01:01:49):
way that we don't really expect from the Broncos now,
do I think that's necessarily going to happen. I don't know. Bonix,
It's still up to him to be accurate and hit him.
We haven't seen him play super well in past weeks,
even though the results have been good. I think Jordan
Love probably is going to have a couple Jordan Love
plays against this terrifying defense, and their offensive line really

(01:02:13):
struggled to have an identity through most of this year.
They've kind of found it in the last two weeks,
but this is a whole other beast in the Broncos defense.
So I think it's really going to come down to
the Broncos offense, particularly Courtland said in the wide receiver group,
to win this game. Frankly, I think this is going
to be a defensive lockup rather than an offensive lockup

(01:02:35):
that you would expect. Between the Lafloor and Peyton coach.

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
Team last game that I'll set you loose, and these
are two of my favorite teams to watch when they're
ticking with the Lions and the Rams at so Fine
and Englewood. You know, ultimately again two teams that are
probably high speed of the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
The Rams are among the favorite to win the Super Bowl.

Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
Now, so what do you like most about what should
be a really entertaining game in Los Angeles.

Speaker 5 (01:02:58):
There's a couple eye to this, and it's kind of
like this every time the Rams play, where there's these
unique matchups because they are such a good team, and
on the flip side, the Lions are very good as well.
Of like, there's always one strange matchup that always pops up.
And so I think if they're able to keep Matt
Stafford clean in this game in a way that they

(01:03:20):
were not able to do against the Seahawks, I think
we could see the Rams play really well. But that's
a big if. Adon Hutchinson right now is playing at
a certified Player of the Year caliber. They've been able
to get pressure that Lions defense has for multiple spots,
including from the linebacker position. And interestingly, this team likes
to trot out eleven and thirteen personnel. That is where

(01:03:42):
the Rams like to live, ironically separate from what the
Seahawks did to them. The Lion like to stay in
base personnel, want to play Derek Barns, they want to
play Jack Campbell, and they want to play Alexandeloni at
all times. I think that could give the thirteen personnel
attack trouble. I think it's going to be a true
eleven game from the Rams. That means that Pukin Nakua

(01:04:03):
is going to have to step out. He'll be against
the depth of the Lions secondary, which once again tons
of injuries in that secondary, So I think that's gonna
be really interesting. Can Aiden Hutchinson get one on one
pressure against this offensive line, I think it'll end up
being a close game if he can. On the flip side,
they're going to trot out dime against an intier offensive

(01:04:26):
line of the Lions that has struggled throughout this year.
They're going to have to pass over the middle to
win this game. The Rams have one of the best
safety groups in recent years, including Cameron Curl, a couple
other guys, Kim Kitchens that has played really well, Nate
Laman the linebacker as well. It's going to be a
struggle to pass over the middle. This is a true

(01:04:47):
strength on strength game, and that's why I think it's
gonna be fascinating to watch.

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
Sam.

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
Before we start, you, Louise, I'm gonna be selfish and
I'm gonna ask you for fantasy football advice because I'm
in the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
Are you ready?

Speaker 5 (01:04:56):
That's it?

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
All right.

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
I'm in a two quarterback league and and Dak is
my quarterback that I'll start. And then I was playing
Daniel Jones, who was obviously hurt. So my options for
my second quarterback are cam Ward or whoever starts for
the Colts.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
Who should I go with?

Speaker 5 (01:05:12):
Oh? You don't have any other options?

Speaker 1 (01:05:14):
No, man, and there's none on the waiver wire. It's
a bad spot. It's a bad spot.

Speaker 5 (01:05:19):
That's brutal. Well, look, I mean, you gotta think about it.
I don't think there's any good mashup against the Seahawks
that I liked, and I think cam Ward and the
Titans are likely to be put in a situation where
they could be throwing just because they don't have a
high team strength. So based off of those sheer principles,
I'm gonna go with cam Ward. I'm really frankly afraid

(01:05:40):
of anyone playing against the Seahawks defense. It could be
Josh Allen, it could be Philip Rivers. I'm just I
trust that Mike McDonald is going to give a quarterback troubles.

Speaker 2 (01:05:50):
Wait, we have a.

Speaker 1 (01:05:51):
Late entry into this group. Kenny Pickett is available on
the waiver wire.

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
What do you think?

Speaker 5 (01:05:56):
Oh, that's an interesting one. Can you pick? It may
bring a little bit of rushing upside. Now we have
not seen that from from the Raiders offense at all.

Speaker 2 (01:06:06):
Nope, but uh yeah, I.

Speaker 5 (01:06:08):
Think I'm still gonna have to go cam Ward on
this one.

Speaker 1 (01:06:12):
Oh man, I don't know why I play fans. Oh,
it's so brutal. It's so brutal. But we'll see what happens. Hey, Sam,
tell everybody where they can go find your.

Speaker 2 (01:06:19):
Work, Bud.

Speaker 5 (01:06:20):
Yeah, go check out the Sumer Sports Show on YouTube
and be sure to subscribe. We also have had some
excellent daily film videos from our film expert Sean sai
ed I do you want to figure out how Michael
Parsons is getting his pressure? How some of these excellent
NFL coaches are scheming up their offenses every single day?
You can catch a video and as well, you can
catch a Schumer Sports Show help. We helped you fill

(01:06:43):
out your Pro Bowl ballot this week, so great thing
to do as you're doing that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
Sam, Thank you, my friend. Enjoyed the football and enjoy
the weekend. We'll chat soon.

Speaker 5 (01:06:51):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
Sam Brockhaus one of our favorites from Schoomer Sports previewing
the Pro Football Weekend Ahead. It starts tonight in tam
between the Falcons and the Bucks. Of course, you can
see that game on Amazon Prime. And we are your
home of the NFL in this market. Speaking of football,
we've got a football special, Holiday Football special with our
friends at Advanced Window Products. Our guy, Nate Orchard, is

(01:07:14):
buddy Jake Weber. They run this company and they're the
best at what they do. And working with them for
a long time, down a bunch of remotes at their spot,
and you can trust them.

Speaker 2 (01:07:23):
That's number one. Number two is if you're in need
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Speaker 1 (01:07:27):
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(01:07:47):
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(01:08:11):
One of my favorite guests live in studio for an
entire hour. Former athletic director of the University of Utah
and a good friend of the show, Doctor Chris Hill,
is live on a wed or excuse me on a Thursday.

Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
Happy Thursday, sir, how are you. I'm doing great.

Speaker 7 (01:08:24):
I mean you'll be jealous, but I walk nine today,
walk nine yesterday.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
I was gonna ask you, like, you know, with the
with the weather being what it is, I would imagine
there's an opportunity to swing a club.

Speaker 2 (01:08:34):
I'm gonna try to get out on Sunday.

Speaker 7 (01:08:36):
Well, you know, for me, I this time of year,
I like cross country scheme. I like it a lot,
some peaceful yah yeah, and usually when there's not snow
on the ground. It's cold. Kathy and I will sometimes
go to a country club walk to back nine for
our exercise beautiful. So I went up yesterday and I said,
wait a minute, Wi, I'll just bring some clubs to
me while I'm walking. Love it, and so you know

(01:08:56):
today I don't you know, we need snow. Yeah, but
at the same time, if you don't snow to listen's
wind about not have snow, go do something fun.

Speaker 1 (01:09:03):
Well, I'm one, and I know this isn't necessarily a
popular take, and I know you're gonna laugh at me.

Speaker 2 (01:09:08):
But as I get older, okay, I.

Speaker 1 (01:09:10):
Am less inclined to I said this to a friend
the other day. I could live the rest of my
life and not see a snowflake.

Speaker 2 (01:09:17):
Can be fine. I don't give a rip.

Speaker 1 (01:09:18):
I don't want it, but I know there are a
lot of people around here that love it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:21):
So hopefully we get it at some point. Yeah. Yeah,
the cold's not an enemy for me. Uh huh. You know, well,
we grew up in the Northeast. The winter there is different.

Speaker 7 (01:09:28):
Yeah, so for me outside and it's for thirty five
degrees here and you have a sweater on.

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
Yeah, No, for sure freaks out.

Speaker 1 (01:09:35):
No, for sure, Like I always tell people that complain
about the winter here, like, you know, go to Chicago
in February, go to New York and jan You're like
your breath stops inside of your chest.

Speaker 7 (01:09:44):
It's a different thing. That moist cold. Yeah, that moist cold.
So it's not an enemy for me.

Speaker 2 (01:09:49):
Well, it's great to see you as always, it's a
great week to have you in.

Speaker 1 (01:09:53):
And you know, I understand, based off of your relationships
and the nature of who you are, you've got to
be careful about certain things. So as I always say,
just tap out of any answer you don't give me,
or handle it any way you want to.

Speaker 2 (01:10:04):
And look, I have a lot of.

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
Well family members, namely my father and brother that are
in private equity. Of my twelve best high school friends,
I think seven of them are finance guys. So I
feel like I've been drinking through a water hose to
get an MBA in finance over the past seventy two hours.
But the University of Utah this week it was announced
that they have struck a deal with Outro Capital to

(01:10:28):
infuse the program and potentially institution with some immediate cash.

Speaker 2 (01:10:31):
And we'll see what they do with it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:33):
Let me just ask you your instant reaction to this
when you heard the news.

Speaker 7 (01:10:36):
Well, I think people thought this guy's falling. And when
you say, I don't want to pick on your family
members or your friends, when you soon just say venture
capital or oh my god, they're going to cut everybody,
I'm gonna be dead. They're gonna pillage and plunder. Yeah,
but you have to take a look and say, what
what are the options University Utah has and you know,
borrowing money or finding billionaires or trying something innovative. I

(01:10:59):
mean you it's an emergency business.

Speaker 5 (01:11:01):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:11:01):
They got to come up with a minimum the twenty
millionaire that's on top of the regular budget, you know,
so it's not all of a sudden, and it's got
to be every year. So it's not like somebody gives
you five one year and then not the next. So
this seems like the best option to start getting money
early on. You know, there is no five year plan anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:11:22):
Okay.

Speaker 7 (01:11:23):
One of the best articles I ever read was from
the Harvard Business Reviewed. It said the art of muddling
through the story was you have your five year plan
because that was your popular years and year. But if
your five year plan looks the same in five years,
you didn't react to the environment, and right now people aren't.

Speaker 2 (01:11:38):
You don't read that about five year plans.

Speaker 7 (01:11:41):
You know what you're want to be and it's pretty
simple in athletics, just win baby and be in a
big conference. And if there's a reduction of a number
of football teams, you better be in it. I mean,
you know what that is. And so you got to
live through today and tomorrow in the next year or two.
And with the Texas Tech thing, you know that w
just scares everybody. But if they get some kind of

(01:12:03):
way of putting a cap on the salaries and if
they pay to people, it's like the good old ways
under the table and.

Speaker 2 (01:12:09):
We won't have to worry about it. Yeah yeah, you know,
So just don't get contep stuff. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:15):
Well a lot of layers to this, and you reference
Texas Tech, and you know, we'll bring BYU into the
equation here, because if you're Taylor Randall, if you're Mark Harlan,
if you're among the leaders up there, your task is
you have to find a way to keep up with
SEC and Big ten schools that have bigger TV distributions

(01:12:36):
per membership. But then you have to look in your
own backyard and say, well, wait a second. It's clear
that BYU's financial model is working, and has worked now
for three four years. The stories about Cody Campbell and
oil money for Texas Tech are well documented. Utah had
to find their Cody Campbell. They had to find their
cookie bro the cookie.

Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
Money the BYU has.

Speaker 1 (01:12:56):
Utah had to find their answer to that. So you're
keeping up up with the two conferences that have better
TV deals than you do, but you're also keeping up
with the school in your backyard and then the school
in Texas that has a tremendous amount of resources. And
by all reports, the two schools with the biggest deepest
pockets in the Big twelve are BUYU in Texas Tech.
They just played for the conference championship. Oh yeah, so

(01:13:18):
this had to be Utah's answer to that, right well,
and I don't know if they can get to that answer.

Speaker 7 (01:13:23):
The answer to me is that plus also having some
kind of if this twenty point five million is real,
then they can only pay their players directly twenty five million,
then they have these other nil things which might be
corrupt or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:13:37):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:13:37):
As we were talking off air, the bottom line is,
why can't we take some part of the NFL model?
I mean, I'm a big believer. Okay, this is what
we got to do. So every day we've got to
wake up and figure that out. Yeah, you know, and
not be afraid of it. But you know, Texas Tech
and by you can buy players. Now I understand that
may not be just the same way. You know that

(01:13:59):
you can if you want to give somebody seven million dollars, fine,
but then you've got thirteen million left, right, I mean
you know, And so I don't want to be naive
by anyway, but you know, schools have always had more
money than Utah, and.

Speaker 2 (01:14:12):
We've been able to compete.

Speaker 7 (01:14:13):
But as long as there's somehow we can spend the
same amount of money out of your own university resources,
then you've got a chance to have similar players. Not
the portal screws that all up. But you know, college
football is chaotic. I mean it just I just I
just laugh and think. You know, you got you know,
four equations and you can't solve for it one time?

Speaker 2 (01:14:34):
Right, it doesn't work?

Speaker 5 (01:14:35):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:14:35):
Yeah, Well, you know the reports are that the athletic
department is in a tremendous amount of debt, now it does.

Speaker 2 (01:14:42):
That's not a thing that is unique to Utah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:45):
It's actually pretty common across the landscape of even some
of the biggest athletic departments in America.

Speaker 2 (01:14:51):
Ohio State reported a thirty seven.

Speaker 1 (01:14:53):
Million dollar debt last year after making about two hundred
and sixty million.

Speaker 2 (01:14:58):
Yeah, the Utah numbers is there.

Speaker 1 (01:15:00):
According to what you can just find online, is they
made one hundred and nine million dollars last year, but
their expenses.

Speaker 2 (01:15:05):
Were one hundred and twenty five You ran these departments.

Speaker 1 (01:15:08):
To me, it seems like college athletics does not have
a revenue generating problem.

Speaker 2 (01:15:13):
It has a spending problem.

Speaker 7 (01:15:14):
Well.

Speaker 2 (01:15:15):
Yeah, what I've always said is is we're.

Speaker 7 (01:15:19):
A business on the revenue side and a charity on
the other side. Oh okay, okay, you got it. And
so you and you do things that aren't logical, you know.
I mean, if if the late Larry Miller didn't want
to pay his coach, he couldn't get fired.

Speaker 2 (01:15:34):
You know, Larry's not could get fired, right, you know?

Speaker 7 (01:15:36):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, but now you've got people in charge,
and you all the coach has to do is kind
of wink at some boosters and say, I don't know
if you know they're paying me a much? You knoweah,
And I have a story for you. One of the
ads a New years ago he was I won't tell
the schools. He was a big twelve school, lots of money,
oil money. So he calls me one day he says, well,

(01:15:58):
this is a definition of how this happened. One of
our coaches was going to take a big time job
and he was very successful, and I'll tell you off
the air. And so the president calls the ad the
next day. No problem, we're paying them a million dollars more.
He's gone from three to four. And the ad goes
where I'm going to get the money? And the President says, listen,

(01:16:20):
we got a three hundred billion dollar budget. Do you
think they're going to understand these oil guys and cowboys
that I lost the guy for a million dollars? Boom,
it's done. Play money. And then then I'm looking at
and saying, okay, the buyouts, so okay, let's be honest.

Speaker 2 (01:16:36):
We all want Colony to get his money right, got it?
Bam got a bam, gotta bam, gotta bam.

Speaker 7 (01:16:42):
Eight years later, how come he has such a big buyout.
Gosh darn, how did that happen?

Speaker 2 (01:16:48):
You know?

Speaker 7 (01:16:49):
But you're I walked a mile on those shoes about,
you know, trying to hold the line. And there is
no reward in this day and age for an athletic
director or a president to save money on paying somebody
pay them too much. You're in debt. Thead from ohiose state,

(01:17:09):
he's in debt. You know, as long as you win
in football or you have a good football coach and
you don't cause them to be gone. Yeah, you don't
get fired for that, right, I mean, you just don't.

Speaker 2 (01:17:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:17:18):
So what what's the difference whether you're paying them ten
or fourteen?

Speaker 1 (01:17:22):
Yeah, to your point, the only difference is whether or
not it's affecting your bottom line at the end of
the fiscal year when you have this debt to service. Now,
the interesting thing is not all debt is created equal.
And I don't know what the details are of Utah's
debt or Colorado's debt which is twenty seven mil. Like
if you have a debt that the interest rate is
three to four percent, but you're utilizing your cash flow

(01:17:43):
to make ten percent on top of it, you're actually
coming out on top. But do you anticipate the initial
infusion of cash to simply go to service that that's
what most people believe is going to happen. They have
to get out from underneath this debt. I don't think
that'll happen.

Speaker 7 (01:17:57):
I think they have to if they're doing doing this.

Speaker 2 (01:18:00):
And you know, I'm not as familiar with debt.

Speaker 7 (01:18:03):
We did it two years but the university, you know,
we paid it back, but it wasn't like ridiculous five million. Yeah,
but you know, I think that if if the money
that they're gonna get hopefully and I hopeful it works
because I.

Speaker 2 (01:18:15):
Want the youths to do well. Yeah, you know.

Speaker 7 (01:18:18):
And so if that money's not seen as being spent
on acquiring players, people are gonna say, what's going on? Yeah,
where's that money going. Yeah if the players, which you know,
it's good they're getting paid. But if they're not getting money,
and the room or on the street is we're not
paying twenty million, we're not doing this, people don't really
question any discision. Yeah, players better have money.

Speaker 2 (01:18:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:39):
And the complicated part, because you referenced the twenty point
five million and that's across P four, so that at
least is one thing that's regulated. So it's not like
Texas Tech has forty million to pay in Utah. Is
twenty point five? No, twenty point five is the number.
And by the way, that's for all student athletes. Most
schools allocate, you know, probably sixteen to seventeen of that

(01:19:00):
to the football program thereabouts where the line of delineation
comes in on the other side of that, which is
nil what you can pay the players on top of
the twenty point five million that the school can pay them.
And the reports are that we'll get to Klaudie. He
said no to Penn State and it was rewarded handsomely.

(01:19:20):
According to reports, he's now the second highest paid coach
in the Big Twelve to Dion Jay Hill gets a raised,
Aaron Rodger gets a raised, as coaches get raises.

Speaker 2 (01:19:29):
But he he.

Speaker 1 (01:19:30):
Mandated that if he signed a new contract, he needed
between ten to fifteen million dollars of additional nil revenue
based off of what they already had.

Speaker 2 (01:19:39):
That's the number that I haven't seen.

Speaker 1 (01:19:41):
But if it's ten to fifteen million dollars additionally to
the nil prior to, it's probably in the area of
twenty twenty five mil. Meaning this BYU as an institution
can pay their athletes twenty point five million dollars in salaries,
and if the numbers are correct, they also have we'll
call it an additional twenty million dollars to utilize for nil.

(01:20:03):
That to me, Doctor Hill is where and I don't
know what Utah's numbers are. That to me continues to
be the big question. Market absolutely can you tak keep
up in that attendant to space?

Speaker 7 (01:20:13):
Well, you know, and and in theory which I the
NCAA just keeps getting sued and that's what's going to
happen again and again and keep losing and keep losing.
You know, they're over But you know, according to what
they're saying now, is that NIL money has to have
some legitimacy to it.

Speaker 2 (01:20:30):
Yeah, you have to set closing.

Speaker 7 (01:20:32):
Yes, So if the BYU has fifteen million dollars, it's
hard to imagine that a quarterback can generate five million
dollars when marketing probably can't do that in the city. Okay,
you know, so that's the theory. Okay, And that's what
I said earlier, is that, well, that's the theory so
though people will stick to that, but the cheaters will

(01:20:53):
figure out how to cheat.

Speaker 4 (01:20:54):
Ye.

Speaker 7 (01:20:55):
But because the court of public opinion is I'll just
play the payer players, you know, And and there's no
we'll get back to there's no the expense side, you know,
we always forget about that and I know, but it's
so you can't say, as an athletic director, we don't
really need one hundred and.

Speaker 2 (01:21:15):
Five guys, you know, we really don't.

Speaker 7 (01:21:19):
Besides that, we've got the portal and if we have
any weaknesses, we'll just go get those guys, you know.
And that's like you can't say that poor little kids,
you're taking money away from you're not supporting the coach.

Speaker 2 (01:21:32):
But everybody knows that, you know.

Speaker 7 (01:21:33):
But those are tough things for people to do, especially
it gets back to the whole You got to win
a football. That's the deal, and that's the prestige. And
if you seem to be doing anything to nilatterly disarm
you did, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:21:49):
You did. So you can't. You can't.

Speaker 7 (01:21:51):
I mean, you don't have to pay twenty point five million.
You know who's kidd and who you know? I mean,
you don't need to volleyball and Beth took over and
I hired her. You know, you have twelve scholarships. We
had three. I mean, you can't do that. Twelve is
the minimum, not the maximum, So whatever it is. But anyway,

(01:22:14):
I got off on that. But I think there's a
combination of both. But the nil thing, if there's any
way they can make it like the pros, that would
be the deal because there'd be contracts. The portal is
just painful to Utah. Yes, I better say, yes, the
players need to have more freedom because the coaches do.

(01:22:35):
And if the coaches leave, you should be able to leave.
But there's got to be some semblance of contracts and
just like the pros, come and go.

Speaker 2 (01:22:44):
I don't know who does that in pro sports.

Speaker 1 (01:22:47):
Yeah no, And look, my viewpoint on that is very
well documented on this show for five years because I
didn't think it was hard to see what was happening.
As I continue to say, I don't abandon file this
lawsuit in two thousand and eight. You had seventeen years
to at least prepare for this, and most, if not all,
of the issues that people continue to bring the forefront

(01:23:08):
would be solved by just ripping the band aid off
and saying okay, it's and look, they're very smart attorneys
and lawyers. They would love to be involved here. Jeffrey
Kessler and such. You know, he takes the players, the
players unionize. You finally have a governing body that's in
charge of the sport with a commissioner. And then the
players and the quote unquote owners governing body, they collectively

(01:23:31):
bargain and they come to an agreement that includes a
salary cap. It includes the ability to sign contracts for
two to three years, if not more. And oh, by
the way, if you're a first round pick, you go,
we got your back. You don't have to stay here,
but you don't. You can't go anywhere else for a
couple of years. And then all of the nil you know,
essentially the ambiguity around the space would be it would

(01:23:54):
be done away with because you would have legal documents
in place that you have to sign and most everything
would be solid by moving to a pro model. And
I feel like the only people that it pushed back
against that still believe somehow in amateurism, which has been
dead for five years.

Speaker 7 (01:24:09):
It's interesting. I agree with you, there's no question it's interesting.
There was this score act. I'm sure you read up
on Yeah, and they were kind of make a little progress. Well,
the professional leagues didn't like it. That's an interesting thing, yeah,
you know. And why the other thing I can't understand
is why it's such a dirty word to say their employees.

(01:24:32):
We have student workers on campus, so these are athletes
student workers because people hate for me to talk.

Speaker 2 (01:24:40):
About the academic side of it.

Speaker 7 (01:24:41):
I know everybody falls asleep, but if that's not a
component of it, I wouldn't buy a ticket in a
million years.

Speaker 6 (01:24:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:24:46):
I think a lot of people put on that. You
put my name on that jersey, you better be a student.
And I don't want to hear about well they have
fresh air classes, and whose fault is that you get
a bad degree from Universe?

Speaker 2 (01:25:00):
Is it the athletic department's fault?

Speaker 7 (01:25:02):
I took easy classes when I had the opportunity, so we.

Speaker 2 (01:25:06):
All knew it's classes. We don't have the answer to
the test of the frat house. Everybody did that.

Speaker 7 (01:25:11):
Enough of that, But I don't want to have any
be talking about fresh air degrees and all this stuff.
We'll talk to the faculty and figure out one out,
you know, if they don't want to give it a
grade whatever, and enough of that. But you know, I
do think that the long run, we all know what
we want. Why can't they be employees? And let's just
try to get there, you know, somehow, and not count

(01:25:32):
on the n shade it. We got to figure it out,
and everybody, it's kind of funny. Many things aren't as
complicated as we make them.

Speaker 2 (01:25:40):
So we all agree, well, how do we can get there?

Speaker 7 (01:25:42):
Let's not spend our time on what we don't agree
on unless other people don't agree with us, and how
could they disagree with us? Of course if it's a
two oz vote, and how could they do that? But
everybody talk to knows they want some semblance of order,
and they want the kids to get paid. They know that,
and we all though the coaches and their buyouts are
out of control, but that there may not be a

(01:26:04):
solution to that.

Speaker 1 (01:26:06):
I don't think there is a solution to that at
this point, because you know, the market tells us what
the you know, the prices are, and you have to
say competitive in that, but you know your.

Speaker 2 (01:26:16):
Reference to score act.

Speaker 1 (01:26:17):
The problem with relying on Congress right now is we
have two major political parties that just hate each other.

Speaker 2 (01:26:24):
So they're never going to get the votes they need
to pass one or the other.

Speaker 1 (01:26:26):
Like the Republicans brought one of the floor and the
Democrats were giving them the double bird that didn't pass.
Then the Democrats brought theirs to the floor, and the
Republicans are like, no, I don't think we can rely
on Congress. I don't think we can rely on the NCAA.
I think this has to be a completely separate thing
where football removes itself from the nc double A. And

(01:26:46):
there are a lot of complications there as far as
how it would work, but most of the problems that
are plaguing the sport would be solved by that model.
When you say, I don't know why people are so
scared of calling them employees, the only thing I can
think of is the last group of college football fans
that still hold on to this idea of the amagurism,

(01:27:07):
and they don't like the NFL because of the commercialism
and because of how much money is in the sport.
They don't like the NBA because employees don't show up
for work because they get guaranteed contracts, and college football,
in their minds, might be the last bastion of like
this is a pure thing I can watch. I love sports.
I just want to watch something pure, even though it
hasn't been pure for a long time. Yeah, I mean

(01:27:28):
a pure thing is one other thing.

Speaker 7 (01:27:31):
But the other element is is you go to watch
your good old university team play. They're not better than
pro team, so you're not watching it really for the
overall skill. You're watching it because it's my community, it's
my school. There's an emotional attachment, and you know if
the emotional attachment, like you hear a lot of things now, well,
I don't even know who the quarterback is anymore. I

(01:27:54):
saw him the other day or I met his parents
at a game, but now they're gone. So you need
to be able to have athletes get paid. You need
to see as there's a way to legitimately ethically have
people stay a little while. Then the fans will get
adjusted to them getting paid and they'll see they're good
old guys, and they'll see they got a u graduate

(01:28:15):
degree or graduates from you, and that kind of is
a little bit of warm and fuzzy. But if you
don't see the same guys, you know you're going to
start to lose it because it's not your team anymore.
And and so I just I just feel it can
it can do well. I think the youths can and

(01:28:35):
can do well. We're never going to have as much
money as Ohio State. And you know, I talked to
the ADG at Ohio State years ago and we'd say, hey,
we're just gonna beat you because we have better coaches
and a better ad Right, that's how we're going to
beat you. But you know, Ohio State from one to
understand pretty clearly from one of the coaches there that's
not in a major sport, they're kind of shifting down

(01:28:55):
their expenses on those other sports.

Speaker 5 (01:28:57):
Uh huh.

Speaker 7 (01:28:57):
They're not getting rid of them, but they're they're level
on them, you know, like one fully funded, pretty good
funded and maybe not as well. Yeah, and almost like
a club sport, you know. And maybe that's what do
But when you say, Ohios, that's twenty seven million, you
do kind of shake your head. You realize there's a
there's an expense problem too, you know. And it's not

(01:29:20):
like you can cut your way out of it. But
the problem is if anybody walked into any athletic department
in the country, they'd say, now, why we spend the
money on that. Right now, we got a fourth string
defensive lineman, huh, you know, and he's making forty five
thousand dollars a year with a scholarship. Please, I don't

(01:29:41):
want to get phone calls from some of the student athletes.
I'm just trying to think why they don't. And then
you look at the You look at that player and say, well,
those are the guys that love the university.

Speaker 2 (01:29:52):
You forget that.

Speaker 7 (01:29:53):
Yep, you know, they all of a sudden know that
they're a student athlete after their sophomore year, right and
all of a sudden, you know, you've seen those guys
come back. And that's a joy for me because I
get to enjoy that, because that's nobody gets to do
that at me.

Speaker 2 (01:30:06):
You're not too many people. Well, you bring up.

Speaker 1 (01:30:09):
An interesting point about the non revenue generating sports or
some would call them the Olympic sports, and what are
the future of those? I mean because you reference somebody
coming into an athletic department and looking at the expenses
excuse me in the profit and loss statement and saying, well,
wait a second soccer lost how much money last year?
Or wait, track and field, like they'll go over all

(01:30:31):
the sports that are not generating any revenue yet have expenses,
and now that private equity is involved, the fear has
to be Look, these are New York private equity sharks.

Speaker 2 (01:30:43):
These are finance guys.

Speaker 1 (01:30:45):
Okay, they're not on their long island yachts wondering about
the sanctity of Utah Softball or if the muss is
going to have a great experience.

Speaker 2 (01:30:51):
They don't give a rip.

Speaker 1 (01:30:53):
So the fear I think for some is that they
will show up here and asked to see and they
probably already looked at the books. I would imagine you
don't make a deal until you actually understand what you're doing.
But is there danger that private equity will say, okay,
we only want to be in business with your sports
that are actually making revenue. Now, the one caveat there
is that in this new Utah Brand Entertainment LLC, it

(01:31:16):
is football, basketball, and gymnastics.

Speaker 2 (01:31:18):
None of the other sports are included.

Speaker 1 (01:31:20):
So part of that leads me to believe that maybe
they will be supported because they're not involved in this LLC.

Speaker 2 (01:31:25):
I don't know how it's gonna play out.

Speaker 7 (01:31:27):
H Yeah, I mean it seems like from what I'm reading,
which I hope is the truth that the operations and
how you spend your money on the different sports are
not going to be controlled by this group.

Speaker 2 (01:31:39):
Right.

Speaker 7 (01:31:39):
If that's the case, that's a big relief, you know,
because you just don't want that happening to you. I mean,
because people recommend who your coaches and all these people.
And that's why I never did with search firms or
kept it close to the vest, because I don't want
somebody to tell me who to hire and the person's
no good and then my butt's.

Speaker 2 (01:31:57):
And a slinger. You never used a search firm.

Speaker 7 (01:31:59):
I used the one guy h that would find out
what they were making, who their agent was, if they
were bs, and me if they're really interested or not.
I didn't want that person to give me a stable
of people, sure, but handle all the logistical work, you know,
all the research and all that. Because I've seen an
ad search and it they got their stable.

Speaker 5 (01:32:20):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:32:20):
I know that because I was in a stable for
a while and they'd try to sell their guys and
they get paid for that. So I was really careful
to not have people that you know, I could take
names from people this or that, but I wouldn't want
them to sell me on somebody. And I think search
firms have that tendency. You get a hell of a
track record for not using a search firm. With all

(01:32:41):
your high I had a guy helping me still, yeah,
but I mean I had for your higher I could
take I could take other ads when we used when
they used to talk, because we always talked, and you
know who you're looking at, who you're doing. That used
to be the fun thing about it, and not that
yay me. But I just I just didn't want to
do it because I didn't want somebody going to the

(01:33:03):
presence and oh, the search firm really likes this guy.
Yeah yeah, And I'm rolling my eyes, going, oh, President,
please please. I know we're paying these guys one hundred
thousand dollars, you know. But the guy I had, and
he'll remain nameless, was really good. He found out what
everybody was making, all the arrangements. It was kind of
the same because I didn't have to do any of
the work I didn't like to do. I said to

(01:33:25):
walk in and with the president talk to the coach.

Speaker 2 (01:33:29):
Yeah you know, yeah, that's great. Yeah, and you can
do that.

Speaker 7 (01:33:32):
Then now you're hiring people from whatever, you know, righte
never meeting them for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:33:38):
One more thing for this segment and then we'll catch
a break and do some stuff coming up on the
other side. Part of the unique nature of this deal
the UTAH has with Ultra Now, which is the first
of its kind, is the ability of certain people in
our community that have some money to become shareholders and

(01:33:58):
buy in his partners, which is unique compared to the
way it is from most schools, namely at BYU where
you donate money right and BYU and Notre Dame. Religious
institutions will always kind of have this advantage because a
lot of their donors believe they're not just donating to
the athletic department, but they're helping to further the message
of the faith system that they exist. So it's like,

(01:34:21):
oh wait, this fifty million dollars will not only help
your football program, but will help our religion across the world.

Speaker 2 (01:34:26):
Boom, where do I donate?

Speaker 1 (01:34:28):
So when it comes to this dynamic, Utahs now offer
the ability for people to partner with them instead of
just donate to the school.

Speaker 2 (01:34:36):
How do you think this is going to work?

Speaker 7 (01:34:38):
Well, they got to see a profit for them, right,
I mean, I think there's people out there and we
talked off are. Yeah, there's people that are wealthy enough
to invest, but they're not going to invest in unless
they don't think there's going to be a profit. Right,
I have a great graspity obvious, don't I. You sure do,
Sure you invest and you expect to make money. Yeah,

(01:34:58):
that's I didn't realize.

Speaker 2 (01:34:59):
I knew that.

Speaker 1 (01:35:00):
But I mean a lot of this will be contingent
upon whether or not they can find those depocketed people,
because the five hundred million dollar number that's been reported
is not a check from the pe firm. It's a
combination of whatever money that they're going to bring to
the table to partner with Utah Athletics, and then whatever
else is out there.

Speaker 2 (01:35:18):
In the community. It's a combination of the two.

Speaker 7 (01:35:20):
Yeah, I know you want to break but at this time,
the first hurdle, you're there. You did the best thing
you can from the first hurdle. Then you got to
figure out some other stuff. But you know, the sky's
not falling, sure, because you hopefully have that twenty and
a half million, and there's other things that can enter
into it. But I just don't know if there's going
to be a you know, a ten million dollar quarterback

(01:35:44):
unless they're cheating under their present rules. Now I roll
my eyes because I'm not naive enough to know that's
not happening, right.

Speaker 2 (01:35:51):
Okay, Okay, well, and we'll get in.

Speaker 7 (01:35:54):
Nobody in Utah would cheat. Never, okay never, None of
the schools would. And so we're fine. Everything's a board
of everything everything. Yeah, we'll get into some more of
this coming up.

Speaker 1 (01:36:04):
All right, We've got doctor Chris Hill live in studio
for another segment before we move over to our friends
at Handy and Handy for some sports court. It is
an interesting day in the world of sports with Sharon Moore,
the former head coach of the Michigan Wolverines, currently sitting
in a jail cell. The NASCAR versus Michael Jordan lawsuit
has been settled. So some interesting stuff, all right, doctor Hill.

(01:36:27):
Good to see a little willie. That's got to put
you in a.

Speaker 2 (01:36:29):
Good That's nice.

Speaker 7 (01:36:30):
I'm a good mood anyway, but yeah, okay, hel he
helps you. Music puts me in a good mood. That
always been a thing for me.

Speaker 1 (01:36:36):
But you know, we were talking last segment a really
interesting shift of philosophy down in Provo, and I never
thought Klanie was leaving. I just didn't, you know, it
just feels like such a fit. I think people, certainly
people from a national perspective, don't fully understand how unique
that experience is down there and how hard it is

(01:36:58):
to get a coach that matches there Craig, and also
a coach that doesn't move down there and look around
and go like, what have I gotten myself into? Like
cultural fits for BYU. It's different than maybe any other
school in the entire country. But when I heard it
was Penn State, I went, okay, like, that's got to
be a job.

Speaker 2 (01:37:15):
That gets his attention, Colonie's attention.

Speaker 1 (01:37:17):
Obviously, you know Colonie Well, I did a coach a
show with him when he was up.

Speaker 2 (01:37:20):
Here for years. I cheer for him. I'm glad that
it ended with a healthy raise and extension.

Speaker 1 (01:37:26):
According to reports, he's now the second highest paid coach
in the Big Twelve to Dion, and he's gonna make
nine point five million PERU. It's a shift in philosophy,
is there basketball coach is one of the highest paid
coaches in the Big twelve as well? Are you surprised
to see them kind of change their ways.

Speaker 7 (01:37:42):
Well, you know, I had a really nice relationship with
Tom Homo and we would talk off and on and
I could see from just little things he said. And
then when we played golf when he retired, I took
him out. And I'm allows a golfer soda. I don't
want anybody listen to the still a good golfer I play,
but I think, sure, but I'm proud of it. And
so well, you know, you know he was there when

(01:38:02):
they did the young thing, and he says, you know,
I just think, as long as we don't hurt the mission,
as long as we're not seen as unethical, why not win?

Speaker 2 (01:38:14):
Right?

Speaker 7 (01:38:15):
So I mean winning solves a lot of things, so
I think, And you've gotten these major contributors involved that
have influence on the LEDs church, And why do you
want to turn that person saying no, I don't want
you to give money to help the university or help
the athletic program. So I think it's slowly going there
as long as their mission values all that stuff doesn't

(01:38:39):
alter and they're not seen as a cheating university, because
that would be awful for right, right, awful. But if
it's seen that, hey, we're just getting better we're in
the game. They might say, Hey, you're more modern, you're
not living in the past, So you know, I'm not
I'm a little surprised in numbers were that big, but
I'm not surprised they're changing because they almost have to,
just like the youths have to have been trying to

(01:39:01):
figure out which we hope this one thing is to
get them where they want to be.

Speaker 1 (01:39:05):
And I want to be clear, I'm not saying BYU
is doing anything illegal or untoward. I've actually feel like
I've been a voice that stands up for them when
it comes to them writing checks. It's very much allowed.
What they're doing is legal and also necessary. What confuses
me is the hang up from people that are involved
with BYU or the LDS Church about the messaging they

(01:39:27):
do not want to say out loud, like no, we
are among the highest bidders. You're paying a basketball player
five million dollars for four months of basketball and guess what,
high five good job, he's the best player in the country.
I just don't get the whole like fear approach to
not say, like, don't tell me I'm not seeing what
I'm seeing. Why why the fear of the messaging to
just acknowledge that, yes, we are among the highest bidders

(01:39:49):
with all you're You're now paying your football coach more
than the majority of the conference in your basketball coach too,
and you're about to get ten to fifteen million dollars
in your NIL coffer. And from my perspective, that's all positive.
But I don't feel like they want to say it
out loud.

Speaker 7 (01:40:04):
Yeah, if you want me to, you want me to
extrapolate and guess on this, I guess I would say
there's a lot of people that don't make a lot
of money that are BYU fans, just like at Utah.
And they may be sitting there, Wait a minute, Wait
a minute. I know my ticket prices are going up,
and I love by you since the beginning of time,
my grandpa, my dad, And all of a sudden, they're saying, man,

(01:40:25):
that's a lot of money and I'm still contributing and
doing this and doing that.

Speaker 2 (01:40:30):
Yeah, that's a good point.

Speaker 7 (01:40:31):
I'm going to be lost. And maybe they're just afraid
of the common man or woman. And you know the
ones that sit in the north end zone at Utah,
you know they have a lot of pride in that but.

Speaker 2 (01:40:44):
You hear it a lot.

Speaker 5 (01:40:45):
YEA.

Speaker 7 (01:40:45):
You know, there's spending that much money on an eighteen
year old kid and I got to do this and
they don't understand, and he's making that my mind, So
I can see that maybe being a little afraid of
the bigger majority. That's totally a guess at the top
of my head. No, I think it's fair. I think
it's good perspective.

Speaker 1 (01:41:02):
And you know, you bring up another point that I
want to talk to you about, because there's a dynamic
of Utah's deal with O Trow that I'm undecided as
far as how it's going to play out, and ultimately
it's going to be a very vital piece of it.
And let me be very clear about this. I'm not
saying this is going to happen. I'm not guaranteeing this
is about to happen. I'm just utilizing my knowledge and

(01:41:24):
my experience with gentlemen who are in finance and private
equity and venture capitalists that all have one goal and
one goal only in that is what is my return
on my investment, and that's it. So if the exit
plan in five to seven years is actually the timeline,
OTRO has done their calculations to say how much can

(01:41:44):
we make in five to seven years.

Speaker 2 (01:41:46):
Now, there's a lot that is involved with that.

Speaker 1 (01:41:48):
It's a very sneaky, smart, intelligent way to go about it,
because in that five to seven year period, a couple
things could happen. Number one, that's when the Big twelve
television deal is up, so they'll be negotiating a new deal.
I'm sure the hope is Utah gets invited to the
Big ten, or we have moved into this professional model
that you and I have talked about, and therefore your

(01:42:10):
return in five to seven years could be through the roof.
There's actually part of me that wonders if Utah underestimated
their own valuation.

Speaker 2 (01:42:17):
Here. Now, a lot of things have to fall into place.

Speaker 1 (01:42:20):
If you kind of do the math with the numbers,
Otro gets two seats on the board the five hundred
million dollars. If you kind of do the math, the
valuation for Utah Athletics is probably between one point two
and one point eight billion. And if they get the
Big ten invite, or if there's a pro model and
Utah is involved, that valuation is going to skyrocket and
Ultro's going to make a lot of money. But in
the interim, my guess is, and I want to be clear,

(01:42:42):
it's my guess. Utah season ticket holders are going to
get an email and then a coming months where it's like, hey,
we love you, go utes. Oh, by the way, thirty
percent of charge. If you have a tailgate lot where
you like to go tailgate before the game, you'll get
an email that says, hey, we love you, please keep tailgating.

Speaker 6 (01:42:57):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:42:57):
By the way, it's an extra I don't know, ten
grand or whatever. There's going to be a big portion
of our community that isn't among the folks that were
allowed to buy into this as a partnership that will
be asked to shoulder the cost.

Speaker 2 (01:43:10):
How do you think they react.

Speaker 7 (01:43:11):
Yeah, well, if anybody's pricing, I've never met anybody in
my life to please charge me more. Okay, I don't
want to pay that for a sweater, so please just
up the cost. But I guess the beginning and end
for me right now is here's your option. You got
to go with your option, you know, and got to
figure how to make it work, got to figure out
how to have the fans not feel gouged, you know.

(01:43:33):
So I don't you know, I know exactly what you're saying,
and I've heard that from everybody, and I have to
admit that would be something I would think of where
we're going to get the money invest there's big time
investors that can see themselves making money, not donors, but investors.
And there's people in town that would like to invest
in the University of Utah if they could see a return.

Speaker 2 (01:43:51):
Yeah, you know, so you know, I don't want to
have a doom and gloom.

Speaker 7 (01:43:56):
I think we got a step in a direction where
he can get to twenty million at least in theory
and go from there. But you know, I'm just thinking
in my head right now, this is is ten second thing.
So why isn't when big equity firm go buy twenty schools, Well,
just pick off twenty.

Speaker 2 (01:44:16):
It's a lot of money.

Speaker 7 (01:44:18):
So their TV contracts. Okay, let's look at the top
twenty schools in the country. I'm just I just thought
of this. Top twenty schools in the country are bought
and that company owns them and they own all of
television for those twenty schools. Well, what's all the market?
What's intriguing about that? Never mind, I don't know anything
about equity. I'm just a labor in the vineyard. I

(01:44:40):
got paid twice a month.

Speaker 1 (01:44:42):
Well, no, I'm just kind of processing it because this
kind of underscores are pointed about regulation, like you couldn't
do that in the pros.

Speaker 2 (01:44:50):
You're not allowed to You're allowed to buy one team.

Speaker 1 (01:44:53):
But is there anything in collegiate athletics and the landscape
they would like we'll use you know what, We'll use
Bane Capital, or we'll use black Rock.

Speaker 2 (01:45:02):
You know that.

Speaker 1 (01:45:03):
I don't even know how much Blackrock has, the hundreds
and hundreds of billions of dollars I would imagine at
their disposal under management. Is there anything that's stopping one
of the massive private equity or venture capitalist funds in
our country from buying the top forty teams in America
and then starting their own league, Like I don't know.

Speaker 7 (01:45:23):
Well, that's why it's in chaos right now. The people
in charge of it is better start to recognize what we
have to do and we all I get back to
what we want to have football and all these sports
do well, you know, some of the schools that don't
have football still have women's softball. You know, they figured

(01:45:44):
out how to fund it and it's part of a
university or whatever, but we know where we want to go.
If we don't act quickly, we're going to get further
and further behind. If the NCAA is too relevant in
their mind, then we're going to have another lawsuits and
go over again. So somehow they have to reduce the chaos,

(01:46:06):
and I still get back to somehow some modification of the.

Speaker 2 (01:46:11):
Pro model that would be helpful.

Speaker 1 (01:46:14):
I'm looking this up right now as we're talking about
in real time. KKR, according to the intranet, is the
biggest private equity firm that exists, and if you click
on their website, I wonder how much money they have
as far as at their disposal to utilize. I don't
think their website is actually going to let you know,
so I'll have to look at like their filings to

(01:46:36):
see Blackrock is third. If anybody has a four to
oh one K, chances are you're invested into Blackrock. So look,
I don't know. Again back to my knowledge of just
how it works. In professional sports, you're just not allowed
to buy more than one team, and I believe if
you're a private equity firm, you're not allowed to even

(01:46:56):
be an investor in more than one team, like you
can't invest in the Suns and the Jazz and you
can't invest in the Broncos and the Bills.

Speaker 7 (01:47:05):
Oh wait, wait, wait a minute, Are you going to
beat me up for something that had just ten minutes
of an idea?

Speaker 2 (01:47:10):
No, I think I Actually I don't know.

Speaker 7 (01:47:13):
I'm you're already shooting holes in something I just threw
out it away.

Speaker 2 (01:47:16):
Okay, here, just hear the number.

Speaker 1 (01:47:18):
So KKR, according to their latest filing, has one hundred
and seventeen point nine billion dollars as far as the
funds they've raised over the past five years. Eke eqt
excuse me, has a one hundred and thirteen point three
billion Blackstone as I referenced, ninety five point seven billion.

Speaker 2 (01:47:37):
So it's a lot of money.

Speaker 1 (01:47:39):
And at this point, I'm actually just pontificating about possibilities
based off of your thought about whether or not one
of these big dogs could say, hey, guess what, sec
You're now a property of KKR. Congratulations, we own every team.
I don't know how that would work. I actually have
to go through the mechanics. No, I actually I should

(01:48:00):
this at work. I'd come up with ideas and then
I did look around the room and I said, you're
just telling me Dad really had a stupid idea, right
so that.

Speaker 2 (01:48:08):
Could be me right now.

Speaker 1 (01:48:09):
No, I think it's intriguing because there has to be
that there may have to be a third party. And
Brian Rolapp, friend of the show, who was Roger Goodell's
right hand man. He's now the CEO of the PGA Tour.
But at one point The Athletic had a report that
Brian Rolap was trying to gather funding and investments to

(01:48:31):
essentially start the pro model in college football and say,
I'm your commissioner. We now own the teams in the
SEC and the Big Ten. You're with us now, and
we create an AFC NFC picture And in that, in
that hypothetical scenario, the hope obviously is, Okay, it's not
just the SEC in the Big Ten. We want Utah,
we want BYU, maybe Colorado. You know, like you get

(01:48:55):
to forty, you have twenty in each conference, and away
we go. You can break away from the NCAA, have
a governing body, let the players unionize collectively, bargain and
come up with the pro model that would really solve
all the things that are going on in college football
right now.

Speaker 7 (01:49:09):
Well, if maybe that's simple, you know, because sometimes, like
I said earlier, sometimes we you know, there's obvious answers,
and so you agree upon the big picture and maybe
even go step further. They'd be University Utah connected, you know,
and maybe everybody else could go home. All the other
sports could go home where they were let and have

(01:49:32):
regional and all that stuff, and maybe just say to
the equity firm, hey we got to get twenty million
back for the rest of the department.

Speaker 2 (01:49:42):
Yeah, yeah, that's an expense.

Speaker 1 (01:49:43):
Yeah, I think you and I just solved the problems.
We should get a piece of equity in this hypothetical idea.

Speaker 7 (01:49:48):
Like I said, I was just paid twice a month. Sure,
didn't invest. Just keep my head down. That's what I did.

Speaker 1 (01:49:55):
And you were damn good at it. I mean, the
proof is, the proof is in the reason. Let me
ask you this. I was so when I unpacked this story,
I think it was Tuesday of this week after my show,
I got a text message from somebody who I'll just
say would know. And this goes back to the properties
that are involved with this new LLC Utah brand entertainment,

(01:50:19):
which are football, basketball and gymnastics, and I sat on
the show that of course football drives most of the revenue.
Basketball is still profitable because of March Madness. According to
the Athletic there are zero women's basketball teams that are
revenue generators in the country because I thought maybe the
Caitlin Clark effect and the massive ratings, none of them
are making money, including South Carolina, including Yukon. But I

(01:50:42):
sat on the show and here Utah is unique because
the gymnastics team is revenue generating and I got a
text message after the show that said they're not. They
don't generate revenue. They generate revenue, but do they show
a profit?

Speaker 2 (01:50:54):
They do not.

Speaker 7 (01:50:55):
Excuse me, they used to should have said that, Yeah,
they don't show twenty years ago. And they do a
great job of donors, sponsor every you know, Greg Making
and knows they sponsor every one of their players and everything.
But the expenses are so high. Tuition has gone up, salaries, benefits, travel,
you know, all that stuff. People don't realize what's into it.

(01:51:15):
And then they don't even cost out is part of
the trainer, part of that budget, you know, like they
would do a business. Yeah, what's your office space cost you?

Speaker 2 (01:51:24):
What's this? What's that?

Speaker 5 (01:51:25):
You know?

Speaker 7 (01:51:25):
So gymnastics is a great feel good people on campus,
love of people in community, love it. And it's revenue generating,
which makes them a valuable sport more than financially than
the other sports.

Speaker 2 (01:51:39):
That they're losing everything. Yeah, and I did, I did?
I misspoke there?

Speaker 1 (01:51:43):
Of course they generate some revenue, but according to the
you know, the the profit and loss statement, the P
and L statement and the financials, the expenses supersede the
revenue and therefore they don't generate a profit.

Speaker 2 (01:51:54):
Is how I should have put that.

Speaker 1 (01:51:56):
When it comes to be surprised how many basketball don't
but keep going, It comes to what as far as
men's basketball programs think, it's not as much a couscous
you think very because my understanding is they all are
profitable simply for one thing, and that's March madness.

Speaker 2 (01:52:10):
How much money they're turna membrings in. Is that not
not the case? I don't think.

Speaker 7 (01:52:13):
So do you have any idea what it is here?
I did you know when chart Rick was here we
were making a profit. Of course in every way. Final
four runs might help a little bit, you know, well,
you take outside of Gonzaga in the West Coast conference.

Speaker 2 (01:52:29):
Yeah, but he's making money. Yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:52:30):
Let me ask you this before I say you loose,
is somebody that wants upon a time was in charge
of the budgets and how this works? Because we talked
about this to kind of start the conversation. What I've
been told is the initial cash infusion will be used
to service debt and then they're gonna move over to
maybe some stadium renovations with the Huntsman Center and rise
sycles I anticipate as part of the renovations based off

(01:52:53):
of what I'm anticipating with you know, opt prices more
like luxury suites, maybe some branding op opportunities, licensing opportunities,
you can. You know, they're going to come up with
creative ways, these private equity guys like you can put
your name on a seat of Rice cycles Now it's
just going to cost you twenty grand stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (01:53:09):
Yeah yeah, yeah, So how does that work?

Speaker 1 (01:53:11):
Like when you analyze what the Huntsman Center needs, what
what the football stadium needs, Like when you're going through
that process, what does that look like?

Speaker 7 (01:53:18):
I benefited from this. We didn't known and operate the
the arena and Rice Cycles we paid a rental fee
and so we have if they did events at Rice
Cycle Stadium. We didn't make money, okay, but you know,
and that was the way it was and one of
the rubs I had. But but for me, they could
charge us whatever we wanted. Sometimes they could do you know.

(01:53:40):
So it was very scary. But at the same time,
if I had an extra nickel, would I spend it
on fixing the floor or getting another athlete?

Speaker 2 (01:53:46):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (01:53:48):
Pretty soon the floors would be ruined, right right, So
you know that's something that people didn't never understood and
how they would charge us and that would cause some
ten on campus. Yeah, and that was a way if
they thought the way I did would be a way
of help supporting us without it having a red flag
attached to it.

Speaker 5 (01:54:07):
Huh.

Speaker 7 (01:54:07):
Give them a low rental fee and they don't have
to pay all the maintenance of all the electricity in Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:54:12):
That's more detail than you would ever want. No, that's
I didn't even know that. That's really interesting. Look, we
could there's so many layers to this stuff. We could
talk for another two hours, but I'm gonna sell you
lose so you can go get to the back nine.

Speaker 2 (01:54:22):
Okay, that's the More eighteen tomorrow. I love it. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
No kid in the ran take advantage of it. Great
to see. Okay, every buddy, thanks all right, Doctor Chris Hill.

Speaker 1 (01:54:30):
But I want to remind you that ESPN seven hundred
and the Rocky Mountain Chevy Dealers invite you to help
those at the road home this holiday season with needed blankets, coats, shoes.

Speaker 2 (01:54:39):
Hats and gloves.

Speaker 1 (01:54:40):
Drop off donations at any Rocky Mountain Chevy dealer.

Speaker 2 (01:54:42):
All right, wrapping it.

Speaker 1 (01:54:43):
Up, Thursday night football coming up on the other side.

Speaker 2 (01:54:46):
Of a quick break.

Speaker 1 (01:54:47):
It is the Falcons in the Bucks, Atlanta has been
eliminated from the postseason, and Tampa Bay trying to get
back at It's been a.

Speaker 2 (01:54:54):
Rough month for Baker Mayfield.

Speaker 1 (01:54:56):
A fun show. No new news on the Sean Moore situation.
We'll be expected in court tomorrow. If anything comes our way,
of course, we'll bring it to you, all right, Porter,
before we say good night? What comes our way? On
a Friday edition of the Program.

Speaker 3 (01:55:10):
Friday edition of The Drive about Eric Weddle Joymen the
program talk a little college football utes with him. Howard
Beck for our NBA Daily assists. We're gonna catch up
with a guy, Paul Pugmyer little golf in December. And
then I was up on campus with Alex Jensen earlier today,
so we'll get a little bit of sound from him
and go.

Speaker 2 (01:55:31):
There you go, There you go.

Speaker 1 (01:55:32):
We are moving closer and closer at that time of
year where it's time to lean into some college football
or college basketball conversation as it pertains to college football.
Kind of coming to an end, we'll say good night,
special thank you today to Kyle bonnagera sam Bruckhouse in
the Great Doctor Chris Hill. If you miss any of
the sound from the show today, go to the website
which is ESPN seven hundred sports dot com, download our

(01:55:54):
mobile app and take us on the go. ESPN seven
hundred app available in the App Store in the Google
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say nice things in the comments and give us all
the stars.

Speaker 2 (01:56:08):
It helps. Reporter.

Speaker 1 (01:56:10):
I'm Spence saying to night, have a great Thursday evening,
enjoy some Thursday night football we'll talk to you out
a Friday drive weekend style right here on ESPN seven
undred