August 26, 2023 • 44 mins
Car sales training company boss Andy Elliott says he will fire anyone without a six pack, as reported by the New York Post, and he was rightfully called out for his ridiculous standard. But this shows a larger trend of a specific type of very lean physique, being associated with wealth and success, especially among men, and is a part of a larger trend that seeks to blame individuals for their lack of economic success. We have seen this dynamic before: with villains in professional wrestling, and specifically those who I have previously termed Heel Populists. My Heel Populism article about MJF: https://www.prowrestlingmusings.com/post/unmasking-today-s-mjf-an-introduction-to-heel-populism
These strong men with superior-looking physiques blame and shame those on the bottom who don’t look like them as being undisciplined or morally defective, with their overweight or subpar physique being evidence of the lack of discipline that they posit has caused their woes. This to deflect from the true causes of their marks’ distress, the very system of economic oppression the villain represents. Fitness can be a powerful tool to build confidence and help you become who you are supposed to be, but do not let a narrow idea of fitness and an air of superiority get in the way of solidarity and solutions.
RIP Terry Funk and Windham Rotunda aka Bray Wyatt. “And in a world surrounded in hate, greed and violence, a world where closure may never come. We all know a place that has hot and cold hope on tap. For better or for worse.” - Windham Rotunda aka Bray Wyatt - Source: https://twitter.com/windham6/status/1556394433825935363?s=46&t=x3E-r-OT2KgX3LK5oJokcA
(Sorry if my voice cracked a bit while reading the quote. I got a bit emotional.)
Episode Notes:
(Always rough, may contain errors.)
New York Post article “I’m a boss who fires anyone without six-pack abs — I have high standards” https://nypost.com/2023/08/17/boss-who-fires-workers-without-six-pack-abs-ripped-online/amp/
A specific type of very lean physique (specifically in men) is being tied to success and personal discipline
Getting a six pack isn't an necessarily the best indicator of athleticism
MMA fighters, other athletes without six packs
But the enormous sacrifice that is often needed to get very lean perhaps shows a “blind obedience” to this leader
Elliott’s team has a unified look that looks like a wrestling faction
People who are willing to do anything to work for this guy who will fulfill their dreams
Getting really lean can cause a lot of stress, and physical and mental health impacts
Cannot reasonably stay that lean year round
Certain very lean bodies have become a sort of standard of wealth and success, not necessarily the big bodybuilder look. This type of physique is generally achieved by more complex and expensive methods and is promoted in ads for high-end fitness services.
Kayfabe of strong men who look a certain way and act a certain way, and spaces of economic opportunity are only for them
Social determinants of physique - it's just another form of gatekeeping
Fitness/lean physique and financial success is correlation not causation, confounding variables
Expensive fitness programs founded by finance people sold to "busy professionals" rather than fitness experts
You can influence fitness quite a bit on effort rather than based on money, but this specific look tends to be harder to get without specialized help
Aggressive gatekeeping - application only, expensive programs
Some of these ideas around fitness are somewhat getting out of the IIFYM paradigm, which is more inclusive and flexible, and pushing clean eating order to be more judgmental to those who don’t totally deprive themselves
I do really like the idea of using fitness as a tool to improve your overall level of success and confidence.
The need to be very lean is not totally true in wrestling, nor in real life
I love warrior stuff, creating your own training arc, making yourself a champion in your own kayfabe
But you can train for a very long time, do amazing work with your workouts and nutrition, and not get to that specific model-type look. They want to make you feel like you're not good enough.
The Heel Populist wants you to believe that conforming to what they want is the only way to win
Having a lean core actually is pretty awesome though
I believe in using kayfabe and a storyline of strength with fitness to improve your confidence, performance, and your life overall, b
These strong men with superior-looking physiques blame and shame those on the bottom who don’t look like them as being undisciplined or morally defective, with their overweight or subpar physique being evidence of the lack of discipline that they posit has caused their woes. This to deflect from the true causes of their marks’ distress, the very system of economic oppression the villain represents. Fitness can be a powerful tool to build confidence and help you become who you are supposed to be, but do not let a narrow idea of fitness and an air of superiority get in the way of solidarity and solutions.
RIP Terry Funk and Windham Rotunda aka Bray Wyatt. “And in a world surrounded in hate, greed and violence, a world where closure may never come. We all know a place that has hot and cold hope on tap. For better or for worse.” - Windham Rotunda aka Bray Wyatt - Source: https://twitter.com/windham6/status/1556394433825935363?s=46&t=x3E-r-OT2KgX3LK5oJokcA
(Sorry if my voice cracked a bit while reading the quote. I got a bit emotional.)
Episode Notes:
(Always rough, may contain errors.)
New York Post article “I’m a boss who fires anyone without six-pack abs — I have high standards” https://nypost.com/2023/08/17/boss-who-fires-workers-without-six-pack-abs-ripped-online/amp/
A specific type of very lean physique (specifically in men) is being tied to success and personal discipline
Getting a six pack isn't an necessarily the best indicator of athleticism
MMA fighters, other athletes without six packs
But the enormous sacrifice that is often needed to get very lean perhaps shows a “blind obedience” to this leader
Elliott’s team has a unified look that looks like a wrestling faction
People who are willing to do anything to work for this guy who will fulfill their dreams
Getting really lean can cause a lot of stress, and physical and mental health impacts
Cannot reasonably stay that lean year round
Certain very lean bodies have become a sort of standard of wealth and success, not necessarily the big bodybuilder look. This type of physique is generally achieved by more complex and expensive methods and is promoted in ads for high-end fitness services.
Kayfabe of strong men who look a certain way and act a certain way, and spaces of economic opportunity are only for them
Social determinants of physique - it's just another form of gatekeeping
Fitness/lean physique and financial success is correlation not causation, confounding variables
Expensive fitness programs founded by finance people sold to "busy professionals" rather than fitness experts
You can influence fitness quite a bit on effort rather than based on money, but this specific look tends to be harder to get without specialized help
Aggressive gatekeeping - application only, expensive programs
Some of these ideas around fitness are somewhat getting out of the IIFYM paradigm, which is more inclusive and flexible, and pushing clean eating order to be more judgmental to those who don’t totally deprive themselves
I do really like the idea of using fitness as a tool to improve your overall level of success and confidence.
The need to be very lean is not totally true in wrestling, nor in real life
I love warrior stuff, creating your own training arc, making yourself a champion in your own kayfabe
But you can train for a very long time, do amazing work with your workouts and nutrition, and not get to that specific model-type look. They want to make you feel like you're not good enough.
The Heel Populist wants you to believe that conforming to what they want is the only way to win
Having a lean core actually is pretty awesome though
I believe in using kayfabe and a storyline of strength with fitness to improve your confidence, performance, and your life overall, b
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Before we get started today, Iwanted to take a moment to acknowledge the
tragic deaths this week of two amazingprofessional wrestlers, Terry Funk and Bray Wyatt.
Both are beloved by the wrestling communityand will certainly be missed. My
deepest condolences to their families during thisdifficult time. I also wanted to share
(00:24):
a quote from Bray that I thinkencapsulates very well why I love professional wrestling
and why I talk about it somuch in the context of creating a better
world, he stated in a socialmedia post in part, in a world
surrounded by hate, greed, andviolence, a world where closure may never
(00:48):
come, we all know a placethat is hot and cold, hope on
tap, for better or for worse. This is the punk podcast, the
podcast that would rather judge somebody basedon their body of work rather than how
their body looks. As Adam Colewould say, and no, having abs
(01:12):
does not give you the automatic rightto say that someone is better than you,
babe. I'm Grayson Peltier, Sotoday I wanted to discuss this story
that's been making the rounds about aboss who allegedly would fire any employee of
(01:34):
his who doesn't have a six pack. And this guy is pretty much the
definition of late stage capitalism in manyways. He is a car sales trainer
of all things. He's not aapparently he has a fitness business, but
(01:56):
his main business is sales training programsfor car sales people. And he made
headlines. There is a story inthe New York Post headline is I'm a
boss who fires anyone without six packabs. I have high standards, which
is just a crazy story in andof itself, but it actually ties into
(02:17):
a broader trend that I have beenseeing that there is this sort of esthetic
and this kfabe of success bros andsuccessful people. We talked a bit about
the ties between success and health optimizationand the prior episode, but in terms
(02:39):
of esthetic specifically, there has beenthis sort of push to associate a very
specific type of physique with success andbeing wealthy. And it's not the bigger,
larger bodybuilder type. It's a ratherspecific, very esthetic, very lean
(03:00):
physique that is pretty difficult to obtainwithout specific help. There are people that
can do it, of course,but it is a lot more difficult than
just the straight up thinner look orthe much bigger look that requires you to
put on more fat in order toput on more muscle. It's this very
(03:23):
specific type of physique that is nowbecoming associated with success, and it ties
back into a lot of this stuffwe've been talking about around around discipline and
almost an asceticism, because obviously gettingthat lean, getting down to a very
low body fat percentage is it's avery difficult thing, but it's also a
(03:45):
thing that's very socially determined. Andthis boss and what he's doing is obviously
his organization is very very focused onan image of success because that's what he's
selling. He's telling people that theycan these car salespeople who buy this sales
training program, that they can joinhis Mastermind program or his Inner Circle mentorships
(04:09):
whe he calls it to earn upwardof nine figures a year, and he's
charging a fee of fifteen hundred dollarsfor the one time membership and then four
hundred and ninety nine dollars a monthto access this knowledge. Some of the
reviews I've seen online of this program, we're not so flattering. There are
a few positive ones, but overallpeople are not There are a lot of
(04:32):
people that are not quite satisfied withthis guy's program. His name is Andy
Elliott, and his whole thing it'svery similar to a lot of the types
of success speakers you see, butjust on this new level that ties into
(04:54):
toxic masculinity and ties into a lotof interesting social norms, where in the
specific fitness level and the specific physiqueyou've achieved, and specifically the metric being
a six pack, it's not evenlike the typical corporate wellness thing of where
they're looking to see that you're reducingyour weight, that you're you're doing things
(05:15):
for the sake of saving the companymoney on healthcare. This is a whole
different variety of things that we're seeing, And obviously this is this guy is
making it super, super explicit,and I think he's doing this partially for
attention from the media. And youcan tell from some of some of his
remarks to the Post that it's probablythat way or in the in the Washington
(05:42):
the New York Post article, butit's it's a very explicit way of stating
what I've been seeing sort of implicitlyis that you have this certain portrayal of
success that for men in particular,that has this very specific lean physique and
that is associated with a level ofdiscipline. So what he's saying here in
(06:04):
this article, he says, misterAndy Elliott here says, quote, if
you get hired on in our company, you got a certain amount of time
to get your body in shape,or it shows me you don't care.
I mean, I've got one asix pack. Ninety percent of my team
has one. And you know ifI say get a six pack, my
(06:28):
team understands what I mean. Ican just grab any of my people and
before a meeting, I can say, all right, shirts off, look
around, who's the most disciplined onein the room. So they yeah,
they are ascribing almost a morality tothis. And I think that this is
the new frontier of poor shaming,is fat shaming or just straight up physique
(06:51):
shaming. And to me, obviouslythis screams sexual harassment lawsuit saying grab and
take gerhabs of ay take their shirtoff in a meeting about car sales of
all things, or of sales trainingfor calls for car sales. But he
(07:13):
basically says that says that he doesn'the doesn't really care, and that this
is for the one percent of peoplewho are going to be successful, that
if you're the kind of person towould sue over this, that you don't
matter to him. And yes,there's this exclusivity, there is this better
than you mentality around this specific formof fitness, this specific esthetic vein of
(07:34):
fitness has more of honestly, moregatekeeping and a lot more exclusivity than bodybuilding,
powerlifting, combat sports, any ofthe other disciplines. The specific focus
on aesthetics, and you can tellthat a lot of times even in the
messaging of the brands that promote thisin terms of fitness, like some of
them will have very exclusive coaching applications, make it seem very exclusive and very
(08:00):
elusive, this very this specific,moderately muscled up I think probably if you
want to obviously, podcasting is anaudio medium, not a visual medium,
or else i'd be able to putpictures up on the screen. But I
guess you can say probably if you'rethinking about famous people, you think of
a lot of famous ripped actors,probably archetype. You'd think maybe Cristiano Ronaldo.
(08:22):
But some of these programs, ofcourse have actually these programs always have
a bunch of transformation photos of peoplethat are at a very lean level.
But what he's saying here is hesays, my entire company, my entire
team. If you don't have asix pack, you don't work for us,
(08:43):
and says it's called the standard.How about we raise them? How
about you guys quit get getting civilizedand quit settling. It's like what,
it's all these motivation motivational mumbo jumbothat literally means nothing. And he says,
quote, there are some people inthis room that said they would sue
(09:05):
their company if they told them theyhad to have a six pack. We
know you would sue. That conversationis for the one percent, It wasn't
for you. Yeah, it's thisexclusivity. And this is actually a big
part of and the part of thereason why I'm calling this kvebe is because
a concept that I discussed a littlebit actually late last year when around the
(09:26):
time MJF won the Aid of WorldChampionship is this is kfabe, which is
which is basically wrestling storytelling term todescribe wrestling storytelling and the way they portray
things and wrestling shows. Because andthis typeology of it I've described as heel
(09:48):
populism. So a heel is avillain and of course, populism is populism.
So he is talking to a groupof people who likely have some sort
of issue in their economic state,people who are not selling as well or
want to sell more in cars.I don't know if he has sales training
(10:11):
for other professions. I just itjust seems like his main area focuses cars
is car salesman, which obviously youdon't necessarily think of car salesman and fitness.
It doesn't really, it's not thefirst thing you think of. Again,
this isn't somebody that's selling personal trainingor not sales training specifically for personal
(10:33):
training. And you have and youhave this person who is supposedly going to
help you. So he's saying thatif somebody calls him, he says,
if a guy calls me and goes, Andy, I want to make more
money today, I'm gonna say,do me a favor. Go get a
gym pass. Check back with mein a month. If you're still working
(10:54):
out, if you're still showing upfive days a week, if you're eating
you're eating clean, I'll let youbuy a coaching program. So he's like,
okay, he is providing the hopeto the downtrodden person. Who needs
to make moy to get them intothe one percent. But he's still fostering
an adversarialism between you and your membersof the fellow of your class because most
(11:18):
likely struggling car sales people, mostof them are not going to be able
to achieve this goal. And thething is, we don't think enough about
how physique and stuff like this issocially determined. We already know that obesity,
health problems, diabetes, all thesethings are determined by social context.
If you're in a very high stressedjob, you're more likely to binge eat,
(11:39):
have those types of issues. Ifyou're not making money, you're you're
not as much, you're not ableto pay for healthier foods. You are
certainly not able to pay for specializedcoaching and all kinds of other things,
and people are probably spending Unfortunately,I don't know specifically about this program,
but I know that a lot oftimes with these success programs, people will
spend their lives dollar on these typesof things in the hopes that these success
(12:03):
grews will get them to where theywant to be in life and be their
their hope. And also what thisis also doing, the sort of conditioning
behind this is that he is also, in my opinion, doing a bit
(12:24):
of a loyalty test getting to thatlevel, getting to that very low body
fat percentage of level. He's sayinghere, like, if check back with
me in a month and you're amonth and you're you're probably you're not going
to get a six pack in amonth unless you're very very close to that
(12:46):
level already. But the enormous sacrificeneeded to get down to that level of
body fat. And it is thething is that people think. People will
see somebody that is extremely lean,especially photos on Instagram and things like that
very lean muscular definition the full sixpack showing, and they'll think, oh,
yeah, that person is at thepeak of their athleticism. And even
(13:09):
like bodybuilders on stage, no,that person is in many cases that person
is extremely weak and depleted and theyend it and at that point somebody they're
they've done a lot of very verydifficult things that are going to make them
pretty vulnerable. Actually at that pointthere. I've saw a story of guy
(13:31):
on TikTok who said that he fellinto a depression after he got down to
stage lean levels for a body buildingshow. But what the what he might
be really testing here for Obviously Ican't read minds, but what he could
be testing for is sort of ablind obedience to him as a leader.
(13:54):
He could be this andy elliot couldbe like, Okay, if they're willing
to do this very very difficult thingfor me, then they'd be willing to
follow me blindly and do whatever Isay. It could be a litmus test
for that, while also feeding intothat k phape, that look of what
he wants to portray out there assuccess. And of course, of course
(14:22):
he he got some criticism. Thereare some people who rightly called him out
on it. Somebody made fun said, can't work for me if you're bald,
grow hair or get out, andthen another one made a very good
point as well, somebody who said, man, I served in the Marines
(14:43):
for thirteen years with some absolute savages, I mean true savage professionals who are
smart, tactically sound, strong,loyal, courageous, and in unbelievable shape
as demonstrating combat. Didn't have asix pack exactly. It's probably getting down
to an extremely lean level is probablydetrimental to athletic performance in some cases,
(15:07):
even MMA fighters who have to bedepleted out in order to make way.
You will occasionally see somebody, likein the UFC or Professional Fighters League,
you will see somebody who sometimes hasless than a six pack, still in
great shape. Some of them willeven have like a sizeable amount of abdominal
fat, And that doesn't really tellyou that much about how how athletic they
(15:33):
are in certain ways. And he'ssaying also that like, oh yes,
feeding into again the old toxic masculinitynarrative. He's saying, well, it's
because these men are so weak andso soft and they won't be able to
defend their families. Now that's notthat, that's just not the case.
Having a six pack is not reallyas good of a metric. It's a
(15:54):
metric that you're working out and you'retraining really really hard. But not having
one doesn't mean you're not able todefend your family. You take a guy
like John Moxley from AW, formerAW World champion, really good professional wrestler,
also could beats in jiu jitsu tournaments. He doesn't quite have a six
(16:15):
pack, But I have no doubtwhatsoever that John Moxley would be able to
defend his family in a physical confrontation. But again it's this, it's this
image that they are portraying. Andin this article, there is an image
right here of his group of peopleare his I guess his team standing there
(16:41):
on stage and black shirts with theirarms crossed in front of them, with
him in front of a white shirt. And I looked at this and I'm
like, immediately, wrestling faction.This is a wrestling faction. They are
portraying a specific image, and ifyou're either in with them or you're out
(17:02):
with them, you have a teamthat has a matching image to them.
And of course yet it's definitely conformity. But the thing is that is that,
yeah, it shows that the peoplewho are willing to do anything to
work for this guy I'm assuming here, I don't obviously know, but if
he's a popular sales chair or whatever, a lot of people nonetheless to get
(17:26):
into the program, the sacrifices toget into the program. But somebody probably
sees working for this guy Andy Elliottas their dream job because they're like,
I want to be around these supersuccessful people that are going to make me
rich. Meanwhile, he probably gotmakes a good deal of his money off
of telling other people they're gonna getrich. It's just like the old newspaper
(17:47):
ad thing of send me ten dollarsand I will show you how to become
a millionaire. And then they're like, well, the steps are putting in
the newspaper and ask people to sendyou ten dollars to find out how to
become a millionaire. Obviously, that'slike a pyramid scheme type thing that isn't
what this is, but kind offits in the same in the same way.
(18:07):
And there are people there would bewilling to do anything to work for
this guy to fulfill their dreams ofgetting rich, and it feeds into the
emotional manipulation potentially, and there's alot of sacrifice that goes into it.
And I I don't want to accuseanybody of anything, but let's say you
(18:32):
had your dream job coming up,you had like your absolute dream job,
who you really want to work for, you really need the money, and
they tell you you need to geta six pack for the job. Of
course, there are people that'll they'llsue, You'll have people there they're smart
and they'll do that. But ifyou're really desperate for it, you might
(18:53):
just go ahead and you're like,I really want to make this, I
really want to prove myself, andyou'll find any means necessary to get there,
and that any means necessary maybe thingsthat are not necessarily natural. It
may be substances, performance enhancing substancesthat maybe getting on and ozempic even something
(19:18):
like that. It could be somethinglike a there's like a tongue patch surgery
that some people get in order todrop weight quickly, because generally like getting
ABS as a function of getting downto the absolute lowest body fat percentage possible,
and you have to go down toreally low calories in many cases to
get that sort of definition. Andyour willingness to do that is at this
(19:41):
point a barometer for how much youare willing to lay yourself prostrate. Even
though you're looking all strong up there. These people are under submission, perhaps
to this Elliott guy, and heis then seeing that is a test of
your obedience to him and also toyour ability to deprive yourself. So in
(20:06):
the last episode we talked about asceticism. Of course, these are very very
difficult things to do, and itcould be just a test of asceticism,
a test of how much you're willingto deprive yourself. And that is a
big theme that we're going to seeand I'm going again into it more on
next week's episode, but about asceticismand being able to completely deprive yourself is
(20:32):
something that they're looking for, andit is partially to get you to blame
yourself, because let's say you tryyour best to get through this thing,
you try to do things naturally,and you've been working out for months and
months and months, you've been bedieting and all of that, and of
course he specifically says clean eating,and I think that the reason why that
is is again the asceticism stuff that'sbeen going around in the whole success community,
(20:56):
and that's kind of going against thewhole trend of I if it's your
macros, which has been honestly oneof the biggest triumphs for inclusion in the
fitness space because now people who havedifferent food availability, different life circumstances,
they can adjust their diets. Butnow we're sort of seeing as like a
clean eating a sort of a moralitything. I think it was doctor Lane
(21:18):
Norton who said that nutrition is ina way replacing morality. But let's say
you're that person and you just keepnot being able to do it, and
then you look at yourself and you'relike, Okay, now, I'm just
gonna blame myself for the fact thatI'm not economically successful because I could not
get myself below ten percent body fat. That means that I'm a weak,
lazy loser who will never be successfulin life and it's my fault. And
(21:41):
that, of course, is animpediment to solidarity because you're there, you're
blaming yourself for your weight, andyou're blaming yourself for your lack of financial
success because this guy says they're connected, and they are connected, but just
in the opposite way of how youthink. I want to get the term
social determinants of physique out there,you it is a thing where getting that
(22:10):
specific, very very lean look,which oftentimes it can be manipulation. And
you're not going to stay at thatlevel year round, honestly, you're not.
You're you're probably not gonna be ableto maintain that low of a level
year round. And it's not justa matter of working out and doing all
the right things. It is amatter of either very very strategic implementation and
(22:32):
needing some of these specialized coaching programs, or possibly needing substances, or just
being able to be incredibly, incrediblystrict with yourself in terms of in terms
of diet, in terms of training, and it is it is a form
of it is a form of gatekeeping. What what I've noticed is is that
(22:56):
you have you have specific you havethis specific type of look that you are
supposed to be aiming for in orderto be seen as successful. And it's
just another impediment to inclusion. Itis this specific look that is associated with
success. Just like the way we'veassociated success with white men in general as
(23:21):
opposed to people of color, women, all the other types of all the
other isms of discrimination. This isthe same thing is that we are basically,
we are putting up in our mindnow this image that spaces of economic
opportunity are only for strong men wholook a certain way and act a certain
(23:44):
way. But that's not totally true. It's not totally true in real life.
Look at Donald Trump, who isallegedly six foot three, two hundred
and fifteen pounds, and that hasbeen the joke of the internet ever since
he was in the Fulton County jail. It's not true. It's that the
social determinants of physique make it morelikely that if you have a ton of
(24:07):
money, you're gonna be able toget this very specific look. If you're
more of a working class person who'smanaging your own training, having to deal
with get going to the gym lateat night after a long shift or getting
up early in the morning before along shift at work, the fact that
you're going to be on the roadoccasionally with things you're going to need to
slip up a bit in terms offast food. You can still get to
an excellent look, and I absolutelyencourage it. I will say that I
(24:32):
definitely believe in the benefits of usingfitness as a way of boosting your confidence.
So this general principle, though Imay not agree with it in a
super specific way, the way thathe says that, and especially the way
he says here that if somebody saysI'm depressed, if they'll just go to
the gym for thirty days sixty days, they'll never be depressed again. I
(24:53):
can tell you from personal experience thatis not true. Yes, it can
absolutely help, But I believe that'sa good thing. And I think that
the KFABE can be used in youradvantage that if you get yourself to a
to a better level of fitness one, you can use that as a way
to motivate yourself to do other things. I love the warrior stuff. I
(25:18):
love the whole turning yourself into amuch stronger warrior, a stronger man,
and using that as a way tobecome more confident, just like just like
you wouldn't a wrestling ring, youhave somebody who is ready for They're ready
for their for their championship run.They're stronger and more confident on the mic,
more confident on the ring, andthey look like they're in really good
shape ahead of their ahead of yourpay per view where you're going to overcome
(25:41):
everything. But it doesn't necessarily haveto be the perfection that everybodiale says in
wrestling, imperfect people in a fieldwhere you're literally judge based upon how your
body looks, and we're the mostprominent man in that field. For a
long time, was a big bodybuildingenthusiast Vince McMahon who had a very specific
(26:04):
look they curated aw Tony Kahn.That whole movement has changed things quite a
bit, all the way up tothe point where you have Sammy Zane and
Kevin Owens WW tag Team champions whodon't really fit that bill, but look
they're still successful. So it's it'snot a total rule in life or in
(26:30):
wrestling, but it is a specificimage and that specific image and the tactic
of the heel populist is to getyou to believe that if only you can
join them and you can become them, then and only then you can become
the successful person who can fight andwin if you conform to what they want,
(26:51):
that's the only way that you canget what you want out of life.
Meanwhile, the reality is there issome truths what they're saying. Fitness
does improve your confidence. It heck, having a lean core, having a
lean type midsection does improve your confidencequite a bit when you're at that point.
And I've even experienced this myself,when you when you are able to
(27:12):
like get a nice fitting pair ofpair of genes, or you're able to
fit well into your into your swimwherethat is a confidence boost. And there
is a thing, certainly for menin particular, feeling strong like that,
and that can transfer into other areasof your life. I believe in that,
(27:33):
and I do train regularly, Ido try my best to watch my
nutrition, and I do feel abenefit from it, but it is not
an as a total determinant of success. There are other factors in it.
There are confounding variables here, andreally what you should seek to do is
(27:59):
achieve the physique you want to achieveand get yourself to a level where you
feel confident about it, and thenthat will transfer over whatever that is for
you. And I will I willconclude part of this with the or the
way that the article concludes. Itdoes say that that that that the rule
(28:21):
isn't exactly it isn't exactly what youwould that. It isn't as dramatic,
I guess. And he's he's complainingabout people complaining about it. Of course,
he's saying ninety percent of his teamhas six pack. He says,
you're given a certain period of time. It's not like a total rule like
(28:42):
if you don't, if you won'tget hired. He's saying, these hired
people who were overweight, then hegets them, but then they get into
shape while they're working for him.So that little bit of disclaimer there,
and you can read the exact statementsin that in that New York Post article,
which I will link in the description. But still we have this lingering.
(29:04):
We do have this lingering issue,and there are definitely this isn't the
first one to do this. Thereare a lot of like coaching programs out
there. A few episodes ago,I mentioned the Ultimate Performance Gym, very
expensive gym, like five thousand dollarspersonal training programs. There's another program out
(29:27):
there called Built Lean that's very targetedto this demographic of success bros and success
people, and they all portray likea specific fitness model type image. The
latest one that I saw is actuallyis this one called Invictus Fitness, and
(29:48):
that it was very very explicit aboutthis, so I wanted to actually I
wanted to share it because there isliterally advertisements for fitnes professionals that specifically say
that they are for quote unquote FinanceBros. And I did find just before
I started this episode the connection andback to this toxic masculinity and this political
(30:14):
stuff very explicitly, although he saysit's a joke. So this ad that
I saw pop up, says FinanceBros. If I offered to show you
how to get tread in twenty twentythree without kind of calories, are living
on bird food. Of course,this guy actually seems free reasonable in his
diet approach because he's saying, youwithout missing out on afterwork drinks, without
(30:34):
spaying hours in the gym, withoutany of the guests work. I'll personally,
he's specifically saying ten guys who workin finance, so you have people
who and then he says specifically transformationcoach for guys in finance. Is how
this guy, Ben Lecter of InvictusFitness signs this thing. This is a
(30:56):
very specific vein of fitness that isgoing around that is targeted. Of course,
the targeting the demographic is going tobe because of the fact that people
who can afford certain training programs.But there, but the ultimate performance thing
was also started by somebody who workedin finance. And you're seeing a lot
of the tech people getting into theseself optimization, biohacking. You're even seeing
(31:18):
really buff Jeff Bezos. So thisimage, it is going around there and
beyond this one guy, this isa pretty sizable cultural trend that is going
on, and it is further perpetuatingthis image. And what I don't want
to see is and I always wheneverI do these types of analysis, I
always get a sword of disclaimer.I don't want this to be the thing
(31:41):
that's like, Okay, this givesme license to never care about my fitness
ever. Again, I'm just saying, there are multiple ways to get to
a confident, good level of fitness, and they are always going to show
you their highlights. They're never goingto show the person who actually fails these
things, of course, not notnecessarily the transformation of that person. It
(32:02):
makes sense for their business on showonly the successful people in these types of
programs. And of course it isagainst self selecting, so it may not
even be at this program is superiorto other programs, or any other program
is superior to other programs. Itis that they're selecting, and this is
why, Like sometimes when I hearpersonal trainers fitness coaches say, oh,
(32:23):
yes, the people who pay moremoney for programs are more committed and that's
why they get better results. I'mlike, do you know what confounding variables
are? That person probably has moretime, more resources, probably can also
pay for a meal prep service inaddition to your training. Maybe they probably
(32:44):
have a job that offers them moretime off. They're not as stressed out
about money. Ties back into someof the fitness people or not the fitness
field to finance people online who areshaming poor people for getting fast food.
It's not the fast food that ismaking somebody poor, it is the circumstances
(33:04):
they're causing them to be under stress. They're making them poor, and they're
making them into somebody who is cravinga lot of fast food or that only
has that as a resource. Andthe interesting part is a TikToker named King
Frenchie, who I really like,although I disagree with some of his political
positions, he does have a bitof a different view on certain issues than
I do. But he was explainingbasically how processed food availability improves productivity because
(33:30):
you don't have to constantly be becauseyou have the ability to quickly grab food
after working a twelve fourteen hour shift. We'll get that more on the productivity
related episodes coming up soon. Butit is this image that is being portrayed
out there, and it is beingused for gate keeping very explicitly now.
(33:55):
But what I'm afraid of is thatit's being used in the reverse. Is
they're like, Okay, well lookyou're poor, you're fat, it's because
you lack discipline. The reason whyyou aren't poor is because you lack discipline.
Evidence for that is look at yourbody, you're fat, or even
if you look at a guy likeme like they'll say, oh yeah,
(34:15):
you're not discipline because there's still alittle bit there's still some fat covering your
lower abbs. Your abs aren't likepopping out. That shows that you're undisciplined.
And that's the reason why you're notrich when it's correlation does not equal
causation, of course, and thisis the new frontier of poor shaming.
(34:35):
I have to do more episodes onthis whole biohacking trend as well, but
that is sort of where we're going, and that is definitely that's a heel
tactic. That's a villain tactic.Is is shaming somebody. If you watch
a wrestling show and mjf of aw, he's sort of turned around. He
has this really interesting relationship and connectionwith Adam Cole who are friends in the
(35:00):
dark Order called Budge, which leadsme a very interesting joke. I think
that we need to possibly instead oftrying nudge policies and politics, we gotta
try some budge policies, some AdamCole Baybey in our politics. But uh,
(35:22):
I don't blame you if you didn'tlaugh at that. But Adam Cole
and m JF. Adam Cole washeavily body shamed, hence that little remark
that I mentioned in the beginning ofthe episode, including by MJF. And
they always like they'll they'll look inthe crowd, they're like, all of
you fat poor people. Heals villainsand wrestling shows, so all you fat
(35:44):
poor people look at you and you'recheering for this guy, and that's happening.
That's going to happen in politics too. They're like, all of you
fat poor people. There certainly isthe fat shaming with the whole body positivity
thing being associated with the left andthe progressive side, which body positivity is
absolutely necessary, but the right capitalizeson it and uses a ton of fact
(36:07):
shaming. Even though look at DonaldTrump and all of that. Enough said,
but that will be continue to use. They're like, Okay, the
evidence for why it is your faultthat you are not successful in life is
if you look at your body.But I say not just the way Adam
(36:28):
Cole says that look at your bodyof work and not your body. Look
at the body of work of thepoliticians that are and the business people who
are making the policies to oppress peoplein lower income situations so that they are
both unable to achieve things economically andalso unable to achieve things in terms of
(36:50):
health and fitness. But somebody couldhear that same message and they could be
like, if they're working on theirfitness or whatever, they're like, I'm
better than those people. Look atme right now, even though I'm flat
broke, I am starving myself everyday. Try to see my six pack
while I'm working this guy's success salestraining program. And I'm gonna become so
successful in life because I'm living upto that. And look at all those
(37:10):
poor people over there that are sittingthere collecting welfare and they're not working hard
enough to improve themselves. And Ican see that because of how fat they
are. And that is what thesong, the country song rich Men North
of Richmond would have you believe.They're talking about the overweight welfare people.
I should have had the exact lyricup there, but Richmond North of Richmond
(37:37):
basically this song by this guy,this guy, Oliver Anthony rails against taxes,
welfare cheats, and the obese.According to Independent and it's been praised
by people on the right, eventhough he says it's not quite associated with
the right. And then it says, here, I'm trying to get to
(38:00):
the lyric about but but basically it'sfat, it's it's it's both talking negatively
about politicians but then also talking negativelyabout overweight people who are sitting down.
Oh, yes, there it is. And the obese milk and welfare.
Well, god, if you're fivefoot three or three hundred pounds, taxes
ought not to pay for your bagsof fudge rounds. So look, instead
(38:24):
of going he well, he issaying that he's going after the rich men
in politics, but he's basically doingtheir bidding with that line by causing you
to blame your fellow man for theirproblem. The obese guys, fudge rounds
are not your are not remotely takingout as much from the budget as tax
(38:45):
cheats are. So that false equivalency, at a minimum is detrimental to our
politics and as creating. Again,this is a populistic song that's talking about
a lot of struggles of the workingclass from a guy who's a farmer out
in Virginia, factory worker. Butit is in fact, using that heel
(39:08):
shaming tactic that he'll populism I talkedabout in my article about MJF last year.
That causes you to villainize your fellowman. And that is a concerning
strain that we are going to seepopping up more and more in politics,
especially as the Republicans try to hijackthe economic narrative and say that bidonomics is
(39:31):
not working. So another thing wehave to we have to keep an eye
out for and try to try tomitigate as we can. And in terms
of this Richmond North of Richmond's song, I feel like I could probably do
a whole episode on it. Butwhat I am going to say is I
(39:52):
trust the anxious millennial cowboy from Aaron'sCreek, Virginia a lot more than Oliver
Anthon me. And he has areally good country music playlist. Hangman Adam
Page of aw one of my favoritepro wrestlers of all time. He has
a great country playlist, and he'she rotates the playlist a bit, but
(40:15):
he has a lot of more progressivecountry music. There's an interesting strain of
country, even even going into likeWillie Nelson in the older stuff that's very
much that's very that's pretty progressive.Some of my work on Adam Page covers
that all linked to that article againin the description of this episode. But
(40:37):
there's a there's a really good strainof country music, like the artists I've
been into our like Rville Peck,Cody Jinks, Ponds or Kings. There's
a lot of good country music thatthat has progressive themes to it, and
conservatives have sort of co opted itfor their own political game, especially with
(40:59):
rich north of Richmond, and trytry that in a small town through this
through this summer, and of coursethis is definitely falling into that heel populism
pattern. You are going to theworking class people who are oppressed by these
by the conservative policies, the oneswho are getting kicked off of medicaid because
(41:22):
of these conservative policies. But no, you're not vilifying the people who are
taking away your medicaid. You arevilifying the person who is eating a few
too many fudge rounds in your opinion. But again, as we have to
be careful in terms of progressive messagingand saying that saying that yes we do
(41:42):
care about fitness, and yes doingfitness stuff, being in really good shape
can be amazing, and it canimprove your fitness, can really improve your
confidence. And I'd encourage you topursue an excellent to pursue an excellent physique
at the top of your potential,to get to that level, because it
(42:05):
does make you feel better, itdoes improve your confidence, it can improve
your health. Fitness is something thatyou can modify more based on your own
effort rather than other physical characteristics,although again they're social determinants of physique.
But I do believe in that,and I believe in creating creating yourself into
the kind of warrior you don't wantto be. You don't have to conform
(42:25):
to the way the villains and theenemies want you to be. You can
become your own character and your ownversion of a champion and stand tall and
be confident in that. And asAdam Page says, let's all keep working
on bettering ourselves. But you're alwaysgood enough for full gear, so you
(42:45):
can be confident even if you're notquite at that six pack level. And
you don't have to blame yourself andshame yourself and view your physique as being
the reason why you are economically notdoing well, and understand the very real
role of economic oppression while continuing towork on yourself and become better as a
(43:09):
person. All right, so thankyou so much for taking the time to
listen to this episode. I'm gonnabe covering more on this, on this
idea of the right wanting you tobasically shame and doubt yourself and shame others
instead of going after who's really causingthe problems, and this kfabe of success
(43:31):
Bros. I'm gonna be watching awall in pro wrestling this weekend. It's
gonna be an amazing wrestling weekend.Please follow me on social media at Fixer
Punk, on TikTok and Instagram,at Grace and Nation Jr. Eys O
n N A t I O Non Twitter or x And if you have
(43:51):
any comments about this episode, ifyou have any crazy workplace experiences, crazy
experiences with success Bros or six sasexperts, or any of these kinds of
possible scams or people that are takingadvantage of other people, please give me
a call, tell me your story, leave a voicemail on the toll free
(44:12):
number eight four four four seven sevenPunk eight four four four seven seven seven
eight six five and I hope youwill join me again next week for the
next episode. This content is forentertainment and general informational purposes only. Will
you not warrant or guarantee the accuracyof the information here in. If you
(44:37):
suspect any medical or mental health concern, please promptly consult a qualified physician.
The listeners should not rely solely uponthis content, and consult a competent professional
before deciding to follow any course ofaction.
Before we get started today, Iwanted to take a moment to acknowledge the
tragic deaths this week of two amazingprofessional wrestlers, Terry Funk and Bray Wyatt.
Both are beloved by the wrestling communityand will certainly be missed. My
deepest condolences to their families during thisdifficult time. I also wanted to share
(00:24):
a quote from Bray that I thinkencapsulates very well why I love professional wrestling
and why I talk about it somuch in the context of creating a better
world, he stated in a socialmedia post in part, in a world
surrounded by hate, greed, andviolence, a world where closure may never
(00:48):
come, we all know a placethat is hot and cold, hope on
tap, for better or for worse. This is the punk podcast, the
podcast that would rather judge somebody basedon their body of work rather than how
their body looks. As Adam Colewould say, and no, having abs
(01:12):
does not give you the automatic rightto say that someone is better than you,
babe. I'm Grayson Peltier, Sotoday I wanted to discuss this story
that's been making the rounds about aboss who allegedly would fire any employee of
(01:34):
his who doesn't have a six pack. And this guy is pretty much the
definition of late stage capitalism in manyways. He is a car sales trainer
of all things. He's not aapparently he has a fitness business, but
(01:56):
his main business is sales training programsfor car sales people. And he made
headlines. There is a story inthe New York Post headline is I'm a
boss who fires anyone without six packabs. I have high standards, which
is just a crazy story in andof itself, but it actually ties into
(02:17):
a broader trend that I have beenseeing that there is this sort of esthetic
and this kfabe of success bros andsuccessful people. We talked a bit about
the ties between success and health optimizationand the prior episode, but in terms
(02:39):
of esthetic specifically, there has beenthis sort of push to associate a very
specific type of physique with success andbeing wealthy. And it's not the bigger,
larger bodybuilder type. It's a ratherspecific, very esthetic, very lean
(03:00):
physique that is pretty difficult to obtainwithout specific help. There are people that
can do it, of course,but it is a lot more difficult than
just the straight up thinner look orthe much bigger look that requires you to
put on more fat in order toput on more muscle. It's this very
(03:23):
specific type of physique that is nowbecoming associated with success, and it ties
back into a lot of this stuffwe've been talking about around around discipline and
almost an asceticism, because obviously gettingthat lean, getting down to a very
low body fat percentage is it's avery difficult thing, but it's also a
(03:45):
thing that's very socially determined. Andthis boss and what he's doing is obviously
his organization is very very focused onan image of success because that's what he's
selling. He's telling people that theycan these car salespeople who buy this sales
training program, that they can joinhis Mastermind program or his Inner Circle mentorships
(04:09):
whe he calls it to earn upwardof nine figures a year, and he's
charging a fee of fifteen hundred dollarsfor the one time membership and then four
hundred and ninety nine dollars a monthto access this knowledge. Some of the
reviews I've seen online of this program, we're not so flattering. There are
a few positive ones, but overallpeople are not There are a lot of
(04:32):
people that are not quite satisfied withthis guy's program. His name is Andy
Elliott, and his whole thing it'svery similar to a lot of the types
of success speakers you see, butjust on this new level that ties into
(04:54):
toxic masculinity and ties into a lotof interesting social norms, where in the
specific fitness level and the specific physiqueyou've achieved, and specifically the metric being
a six pack, it's not evenlike the typical corporate wellness thing of where
they're looking to see that you're reducingyour weight, that you're you're doing things
(05:15):
for the sake of saving the companymoney on healthcare. This is a whole
different variety of things that we're seeing, And obviously this is this guy is
making it super, super explicit,and I think he's doing this partially for
attention from the media. And youcan tell from some of some of his
remarks to the Post that it's probablythat way or in the in the Washington
(05:42):
the New York Post article, butit's it's a very explicit way of stating
what I've been seeing sort of implicitlyis that you have this certain portrayal of
success that for men in particular,that has this very specific lean physique and
that is associated with a level ofdiscipline. So what he's saying here in
(06:04):
this article, he says, misterAndy Elliott here says, quote, if
you get hired on in our company, you got a certain amount of time
to get your body in shape,or it shows me you don't care.
I mean, I've got one asix pack. Ninety percent of my team
has one. And you know ifI say get a six pack, my
(06:28):
team understands what I mean. Ican just grab any of my people and
before a meeting, I can say, all right, shirts off, look
around, who's the most disciplined onein the room. So they yeah,
they are ascribing almost a morality tothis. And I think that this is
the new frontier of poor shaming,is fat shaming or just straight up physique
(06:51):
shaming. And to me, obviouslythis screams sexual harassment lawsuit saying grab and
take gerhabs of ay take their shirtoff in a meeting about car sales of
all things, or of sales trainingfor calls for car sales. But he
(07:13):
basically says that says that he doesn'the doesn't really care, and that this
is for the one percent of peoplewho are going to be successful, that
if you're the kind of person towould sue over this, that you don't
matter to him. And yes,there's this exclusivity, there is this better
than you mentality around this specific formof fitness, this specific esthetic vein of
(07:34):
fitness has more of honestly, moregatekeeping and a lot more exclusivity than bodybuilding,
powerlifting, combat sports, any ofthe other disciplines. The specific focus
on aesthetics, and you can tellthat a lot of times even in the
messaging of the brands that promote thisin terms of fitness, like some of
them will have very exclusive coaching applications, make it seem very exclusive and very
(08:00):
elusive, this very this specific,moderately muscled up I think probably if you
want to obviously, podcasting is anaudio medium, not a visual medium,
or else i'd be able to putpictures up on the screen. But I
guess you can say probably if you'rethinking about famous people, you think of
a lot of famous ripped actors,probably archetype. You'd think maybe Cristiano Ronaldo.
(08:22):
But some of these programs, ofcourse have actually these programs always have
a bunch of transformation photos of peoplethat are at a very lean level.
But what he's saying here is hesays, my entire company, my entire
team. If you don't have asix pack, you don't work for us,
(08:43):
and says it's called the standard.How about we raise them? How
about you guys quit get getting civilizedand quit settling. It's like what,
it's all these motivation motivational mumbo jumbothat literally means nothing. And he says,
quote, there are some people inthis room that said they would sue
(09:05):
their company if they told them theyhad to have a six pack. We
know you would sue. That conversationis for the one percent, It wasn't
for you. Yeah, it's thisexclusivity. And this is actually a big
part of and the part of thereason why I'm calling this kvebe is because
a concept that I discussed a littlebit actually late last year when around the
(09:26):
time MJF won the Aid of WorldChampionship is this is kfabe, which is
which is basically wrestling storytelling term todescribe wrestling storytelling and the way they portray
things and wrestling shows. Because andthis typeology of it I've described as heel
(09:48):
populism. So a heel is avillain and of course, populism is populism.
So he is talking to a groupof people who likely have some sort
of issue in their economic state,people who are not selling as well or
want to sell more in cars.I don't know if he has sales training
(10:11):
for other professions. I just itjust seems like his main area focuses cars
is car salesman, which obviously youdon't necessarily think of car salesman and fitness.
It doesn't really, it's not thefirst thing you think of. Again,
this isn't somebody that's selling personal trainingor not sales training specifically for personal
(10:33):
training. And you have and youhave this person who is supposedly going to
help you. So he's saying thatif somebody calls him, he says,
if a guy calls me and goes, Andy, I want to make more
money today, I'm gonna say,do me a favor. Go get a
gym pass. Check back with mein a month. If you're still working
(10:54):
out, if you're still showing upfive days a week, if you're eating
you're eating clean, I'll let youbuy a coaching program. So he's like,
okay, he is providing the hopeto the downtrodden person. Who needs
to make moy to get them intothe one percent. But he's still fostering
an adversarialism between you and your membersof the fellow of your class because most
(11:18):
likely struggling car sales people, mostof them are not going to be able
to achieve this goal. And thething is, we don't think enough about
how physique and stuff like this issocially determined. We already know that obesity,
health problems, diabetes, all thesethings are determined by social context.
If you're in a very high stressedjob, you're more likely to binge eat,
(11:39):
have those types of issues. Ifyou're not making money, you're you're
not as much, you're not ableto pay for healthier foods. You are
certainly not able to pay for specializedcoaching and all kinds of other things,
and people are probably spending Unfortunately,I don't know specifically about this program,
but I know that a lot oftimes with these success programs, people will
spend their lives dollar on these typesof things in the hopes that these success
(12:03):
grews will get them to where theywant to be in life and be their
their hope. And also what thisis also doing, the sort of conditioning
behind this is that he is also, in my opinion, doing a bit
(12:24):
of a loyalty test getting to thatlevel, getting to that very low body
fat percentage of level. He's sayinghere, like, if check back with
me in a month and you're amonth and you're you're probably you're not going
to get a six pack in amonth unless you're very very close to that
(12:46):
level already. But the enormous sacrificeneeded to get down to that level of
body fat. And it is thething is that people think. People will
see somebody that is extremely lean,especially photos on Instagram and things like that
very lean muscular definition the full sixpack showing, and they'll think, oh,
yeah, that person is at thepeak of their athleticism. And even
(13:09):
like bodybuilders on stage, no,that person is in many cases that person
is extremely weak and depleted and theyend it and at that point somebody they're
they've done a lot of very verydifficult things that are going to make them
pretty vulnerable. Actually at that pointthere. I've saw a story of guy
(13:31):
on TikTok who said that he fellinto a depression after he got down to
stage lean levels for a body buildingshow. But what the what he might
be really testing here for Obviously Ican't read minds, but what he could
be testing for is sort of ablind obedience to him as a leader.
(13:54):
He could be this andy elliot couldbe like, Okay, if they're willing
to do this very very difficult thingfor me, then they'd be willing to
follow me blindly and do whatever Isay. It could be a litmus test
for that, while also feeding intothat k phape, that look of what
he wants to portray out there assuccess. And of course, of course
(14:22):
he he got some criticism. Thereare some people who rightly called him out
on it. Somebody made fun said, can't work for me if you're bald,
grow hair or get out, andthen another one made a very good
point as well, somebody who said, man, I served in the Marines
(14:43):
for thirteen years with some absolute savages, I mean true savage professionals who are
smart, tactically sound, strong,loyal, courageous, and in unbelievable shape
as demonstrating combat. Didn't have asix pack exactly. It's probably getting down
to an extremely lean level is probablydetrimental to athletic performance in some cases,
(15:07):
even MMA fighters who have to bedepleted out in order to make way.
You will occasionally see somebody, likein the UFC or Professional Fighters League,
you will see somebody who sometimes hasless than a six pack, still in
great shape. Some of them willeven have like a sizeable amount of abdominal
fat, And that doesn't really tellyou that much about how how athletic they
(15:33):
are in certain ways. And he'ssaying also that like, oh yes,
feeding into again the old toxic masculinitynarrative. He's saying, well, it's
because these men are so weak andso soft and they won't be able to
defend their families. Now that's notthat, that's just not the case.
Having a six pack is not reallyas good of a metric. It's a
(15:54):
metric that you're working out and you'retraining really really hard. But not having
one doesn't mean you're not able todefend your family. You take a guy
like John Moxley from AW, formerAW World champion, really good professional wrestler,
also could beats in jiu jitsu tournaments. He doesn't quite have a six
(16:15):
pack, But I have no doubtwhatsoever that John Moxley would be able to
defend his family in a physical confrontation. But again it's this, it's this
image that they are portraying. Andin this article, there is an image
right here of his group of peopleare his I guess his team standing there
(16:41):
on stage and black shirts with theirarms crossed in front of them, with
him in front of a white shirt. And I looked at this and I'm
like, immediately, wrestling faction.This is a wrestling faction. They are
portraying a specific image, and ifyou're either in with them or you're out
(17:02):
with them, you have a teamthat has a matching image to them.
And of course yet it's definitely conformity. But the thing is that is that,
yeah, it shows that the peoplewho are willing to do anything to
work for this guy I'm assuming here, I don't obviously know, but if
he's a popular sales chair or whatever, a lot of people nonetheless to get
(17:26):
into the program, the sacrifices toget into the program. But somebody probably
sees working for this guy Andy Elliottas their dream job because they're like,
I want to be around these supersuccessful people that are going to make me
rich. Meanwhile, he probably gotmakes a good deal of his money off
of telling other people they're gonna getrich. It's just like the old newspaper
(17:47):
ad thing of send me ten dollarsand I will show you how to become
a millionaire. And then they're like, well, the steps are putting in
the newspaper and ask people to sendyou ten dollars to find out how to
become a millionaire. Obviously, that'slike a pyramid scheme type thing that isn't
what this is, but kind offits in the same in the same way.
(18:07):
And there are people there would bewilling to do anything to work for
this guy to fulfill their dreams ofgetting rich, and it feeds into the
emotional manipulation potentially, and there's alot of sacrifice that goes into it.
And I I don't want to accuseanybody of anything, but let's say you
(18:32):
had your dream job coming up,you had like your absolute dream job,
who you really want to work for, you really need the money, and
they tell you you need to geta six pack for the job. Of
course, there are people that'll they'llsue, You'll have people there they're smart
and they'll do that. But ifyou're really desperate for it, you might
(18:53):
just go ahead and you're like,I really want to make this, I
really want to prove myself, andyou'll find any means necessary to get there,
and that any means necessary maybe thingsthat are not necessarily natural. It
may be substances, performance enhancing substancesthat maybe getting on and ozempic even something
(19:18):
like that. It could be somethinglike a there's like a tongue patch surgery
that some people get in order todrop weight quickly, because generally like getting
ABS as a function of getting downto the absolute lowest body fat percentage possible,
and you have to go down toreally low calories in many cases to
get that sort of definition. Andyour willingness to do that is at this
(19:41):
point a barometer for how much youare willing to lay yourself prostrate. Even
though you're looking all strong up there. These people are under submission, perhaps
to this Elliott guy, and heis then seeing that is a test of
your obedience to him and also toyour ability to deprive yourself. So in
(20:06):
the last episode we talked about asceticism. Of course, these are very very
difficult things to do, and itcould be just a test of asceticism,
a test of how much you're willingto deprive yourself. And that is a
big theme that we're going to seeand I'm going again into it more on
next week's episode, but about asceticismand being able to completely deprive yourself is
(20:32):
something that they're looking for, andit is partially to get you to blame
yourself, because let's say you tryyour best to get through this thing,
you try to do things naturally,and you've been working out for months and
months and months, you've been bedieting and all of that, and of
course he specifically says clean eating,and I think that the reason why that
is is again the asceticism stuff that'sbeen going around in the whole success community,
(20:56):
and that's kind of going against thewhole trend of I if it's your
macros, which has been honestly oneof the biggest triumphs for inclusion in the
fitness space because now people who havedifferent food availability, different life circumstances,
they can adjust their diets. Butnow we're sort of seeing as like a
clean eating a sort of a moralitything. I think it was doctor Lane
(21:18):
Norton who said that nutrition is ina way replacing morality. But let's say
you're that person and you just keepnot being able to do it, and
then you look at yourself and you'relike, Okay, now, I'm just
gonna blame myself for the fact thatI'm not economically successful because I could not
get myself below ten percent body fat. That means that I'm a weak,
lazy loser who will never be successfulin life and it's my fault. And
(21:41):
that, of course, is animpediment to solidarity because you're there, you're
blaming yourself for your weight, andyou're blaming yourself for your lack of financial
success because this guy says they're connected, and they are connected, but just
in the opposite way of how youthink. I want to get the term
social determinants of physique out there,you it is a thing where getting that
(22:10):
specific, very very lean look,which oftentimes it can be manipulation. And
you're not going to stay at thatlevel year round, honestly, you're not.
You're you're probably not gonna be ableto maintain that low of a level
year round. And it's not justa matter of working out and doing all
the right things. It is amatter of either very very strategic implementation and
(22:32):
needing some of these specialized coaching programs, or possibly needing substances, or just
being able to be incredibly, incrediblystrict with yourself in terms of in terms
of diet, in terms of training, and it is it is a form
of it is a form of gatekeeping. What what I've noticed is is that
(22:56):
you have you have specific you havethis specific type of look that you are
supposed to be aiming for in orderto be seen as successful. And it's
just another impediment to inclusion. Itis this specific look that is associated with
success. Just like the way we'veassociated success with white men in general as
(23:21):
opposed to people of color, women, all the other types of all the
other isms of discrimination. This isthe same thing is that we are basically,
we are putting up in our mindnow this image that spaces of economic
opportunity are only for strong men wholook a certain way and act a certain
(23:44):
way. But that's not totally true. It's not totally true in real life.
Look at Donald Trump, who isallegedly six foot three, two hundred
and fifteen pounds, and that hasbeen the joke of the internet ever since
he was in the Fulton County jail. It's not true. It's that the
social determinants of physique make it morelikely that if you have a ton of
(24:07):
money, you're gonna be able toget this very specific look. If you're
more of a working class person who'smanaging your own training, having to deal
with get going to the gym lateat night after a long shift or getting
up early in the morning before along shift at work, the fact that
you're going to be on the roadoccasionally with things you're going to need to
slip up a bit in terms offast food. You can still get to
an excellent look, and I absolutelyencourage it. I will say that I
(24:32):
definitely believe in the benefits of usingfitness as a way of boosting your confidence.
So this general principle, though Imay not agree with it in a
super specific way, the way thathe says that, and especially the way
he says here that if somebody saysI'm depressed, if they'll just go to
the gym for thirty days sixty days, they'll never be depressed again. I
(24:53):
can tell you from personal experience thatis not true. Yes, it can
absolutely help, But I believe that'sa good thing. And I think that
the KFABE can be used in youradvantage that if you get yourself to a
to a better level of fitness one, you can use that as a way
to motivate yourself to do other things. I love the warrior stuff. I
(25:18):
love the whole turning yourself into amuch stronger warrior, a stronger man,
and using that as a way tobecome more confident, just like just like
you wouldn't a wrestling ring, youhave somebody who is ready for They're ready
for their for their championship run.They're stronger and more confident on the mic,
more confident on the ring, andthey look like they're in really good
shape ahead of their ahead of yourpay per view where you're going to overcome
(25:41):
everything. But it doesn't necessarily haveto be the perfection that everybodiale says in
wrestling, imperfect people in a fieldwhere you're literally judge based upon how your
body looks, and we're the mostprominent man in that field. For a
long time, was a big bodybuildingenthusiast Vince McMahon who had a very specific
(26:04):
look they curated aw Tony Kahn.That whole movement has changed things quite a
bit, all the way up tothe point where you have Sammy Zane and
Kevin Owens WW tag Team champions whodon't really fit that bill, but look
they're still successful. So it's it'snot a total rule in life or in
(26:30):
wrestling, but it is a specificimage and that specific image and the tactic
of the heel populist is to getyou to believe that if only you can
join them and you can become them, then and only then you can become
the successful person who can fight andwin if you conform to what they want,
(26:51):
that's the only way that you canget what you want out of life.
Meanwhile, the reality is there issome truths what they're saying. Fitness
does improve your confidence. It heck, having a lean core, having a
lean type midsection does improve your confidencequite a bit when you're at that point.
And I've even experienced this myself,when you when you are able to
(27:12):
like get a nice fitting pair ofpair of genes, or you're able to
fit well into your into your swimwherethat is a confidence boost. And there
is a thing, certainly for menin particular, feeling strong like that,
and that can transfer into other areasof your life. I believe in that,
(27:33):
and I do train regularly, Ido try my best to watch my
nutrition, and I do feel abenefit from it, but it is not
an as a total determinant of success. There are other factors in it.
There are confounding variables here, andreally what you should seek to do is
(27:59):
achieve the physique you want to achieveand get yourself to a level where you
feel confident about it, and thenthat will transfer over whatever that is for
you. And I will I willconclude part of this with the or the
way that the article concludes. Itdoes say that that that that the rule
(28:21):
isn't exactly it isn't exactly what youwould that. It isn't as dramatic,
I guess. And he's he's complainingabout people complaining about it. Of course,
he's saying ninety percent of his teamhas six pack. He says,
you're given a certain period of time. It's not like a total rule like
(28:42):
if you don't, if you won'tget hired. He's saying, these hired
people who were overweight, then hegets them, but then they get into
shape while they're working for him.So that little bit of disclaimer there,
and you can read the exact statementsin that in that New York Post article,
which I will link in the description. But still we have this lingering.
(29:04):
We do have this lingering issue,and there are definitely this isn't the
first one to do this. Thereare a lot of like coaching programs out
there. A few episodes ago,I mentioned the Ultimate Performance Gym, very
expensive gym, like five thousand dollarspersonal training programs. There's another program out
(29:27):
there called Built Lean that's very targetedto this demographic of success bros and success
people, and they all portray likea specific fitness model type image. The
latest one that I saw is actuallyis this one called Invictus Fitness, and
(29:48):
that it was very very explicit aboutthis, so I wanted to actually I
wanted to share it because there isliterally advertisements for fitnes professionals that specifically say
that they are for quote unquote FinanceBros. And I did find just before
I started this episode the connection andback to this toxic masculinity and this political
(30:14):
stuff very explicitly, although he saysit's a joke. So this ad that
I saw pop up, says FinanceBros. If I offered to show you
how to get tread in twenty twentythree without kind of calories, are living
on bird food. Of course,this guy actually seems free reasonable in his
diet approach because he's saying, youwithout missing out on afterwork drinks, without
(30:34):
spaying hours in the gym, withoutany of the guests work. I'll personally,
he's specifically saying ten guys who workin finance, so you have people
who and then he says specifically transformationcoach for guys in finance. Is how
this guy, Ben Lecter of InvictusFitness signs this thing. This is a
(30:56):
very specific vein of fitness that isgoing around that is targeted. Of course,
the targeting the demographic is going tobe because of the fact that people
who can afford certain training programs.But there, but the ultimate performance thing
was also started by somebody who workedin finance. And you're seeing a lot
of the tech people getting into theseself optimization, biohacking. You're even seeing
(31:18):
really buff Jeff Bezos. So thisimage, it is going around there and
beyond this one guy, this isa pretty sizable cultural trend that is going
on, and it is further perpetuatingthis image. And what I don't want
to see is and I always wheneverI do these types of analysis, I
always get a sword of disclaimer.I don't want this to be the thing
(31:41):
that's like, Okay, this givesme license to never care about my fitness
ever. Again, I'm just saying, there are multiple ways to get to
a confident, good level of fitness, and they are always going to show
you their highlights. They're never goingto show the person who actually fails these
things, of course, not notnecessarily the transformation of that person. It
(32:02):
makes sense for their business on showonly the successful people in these types of
programs. And of course it isagainst self selecting, so it may not
even be at this program is superiorto other programs, or any other program
is superior to other programs. Itis that they're selecting, and this is
why, Like sometimes when I hearpersonal trainers fitness coaches say, oh,
(32:23):
yes, the people who pay moremoney for programs are more committed and that's
why they get better results. I'mlike, do you know what confounding variables
are? That person probably has moretime, more resources, probably can also
pay for a meal prep service inaddition to your training. Maybe they probably
(32:44):
have a job that offers them moretime off. They're not as stressed out
about money. Ties back into someof the fitness people or not the fitness
field to finance people online who areshaming poor people for getting fast food.
It's not the fast food that ismaking somebody poor, it is the circumstances
(33:04):
they're causing them to be under stress. They're making them poor, and they're
making them into somebody who is cravinga lot of fast food or that only
has that as a resource. Andthe interesting part is a TikToker named King
Frenchie, who I really like,although I disagree with some of his political
positions, he does have a bitof a different view on certain issues than
I do. But he was explainingbasically how processed food availability improves productivity because
(33:30):
you don't have to constantly be becauseyou have the ability to quickly grab food
after working a twelve fourteen hour shift. We'll get that more on the productivity
related episodes coming up soon. Butit is this image that is being portrayed
out there, and it is beingused for gate keeping very explicitly now.
(33:55):
But what I'm afraid of is thatit's being used in the reverse. Is
they're like, Okay, well lookyou're poor, you're fat, it's because
you lack discipline. The reason whyyou aren't poor is because you lack discipline.
Evidence for that is look at yourbody, you're fat, or even
if you look at a guy likeme like they'll say, oh yeah,
(34:15):
you're not discipline because there's still alittle bit there's still some fat covering your
lower abbs. Your abs aren't likepopping out. That shows that you're undisciplined.
And that's the reason why you're notrich when it's correlation does not equal
causation, of course, and thisis the new frontier of poor shaming.
(34:35):
I have to do more episodes onthis whole biohacking trend as well, but
that is sort of where we're going, and that is definitely that's a heel
tactic. That's a villain tactic.Is is shaming somebody. If you watch
a wrestling show and mjf of aw, he's sort of turned around. He
has this really interesting relationship and connectionwith Adam Cole who are friends in the
(35:00):
dark Order called Budge, which leadsme a very interesting joke. I think
that we need to possibly instead oftrying nudge policies and politics, we gotta
try some budge policies, some AdamCole Baybey in our politics. But uh,
(35:22):
I don't blame you if you didn'tlaugh at that. But Adam Cole
and m JF. Adam Cole washeavily body shamed, hence that little remark
that I mentioned in the beginning ofthe episode, including by MJF. And
they always like they'll they'll look inthe crowd, they're like, all of
you fat poor people. Heals villainsand wrestling shows, so all you fat
(35:44):
poor people look at you and you'recheering for this guy, and that's happening.
That's going to happen in politics too. They're like, all of you
fat poor people. There certainly isthe fat shaming with the whole body positivity
thing being associated with the left andthe progressive side, which body positivity is
absolutely necessary, but the right capitalizeson it and uses a ton of fact
(36:07):
shaming. Even though look at DonaldTrump and all of that. Enough said,
but that will be continue to use. They're like, Okay, the
evidence for why it is your faultthat you are not successful in life is
if you look at your body.But I say not just the way Adam
(36:28):
Cole says that look at your bodyof work and not your body. Look
at the body of work of thepoliticians that are and the business people who
are making the policies to oppress peoplein lower income situations so that they are
both unable to achieve things economically andalso unable to achieve things in terms of
(36:50):
health and fitness. But somebody couldhear that same message and they could be
like, if they're working on theirfitness or whatever, they're like, I'm
better than those people. Look atme right now, even though I'm flat
broke, I am starving myself everyday. Try to see my six pack
while I'm working this guy's success salestraining program. And I'm gonna become so
successful in life because I'm living upto that. And look at all those
(37:10):
poor people over there that are sittingthere collecting welfare and they're not working hard
enough to improve themselves. And Ican see that because of how fat they
are. And that is what thesong, the country song rich Men North
of Richmond would have you believe.They're talking about the overweight welfare people.
I should have had the exact lyricup there, but Richmond North of Richmond
(37:37):
basically this song by this guy,this guy, Oliver Anthony rails against taxes,
welfare cheats, and the obese.According to Independent and it's been praised
by people on the right, eventhough he says it's not quite associated with
the right. And then it says, here, I'm trying to get to
(38:00):
the lyric about but but basically it'sfat, it's it's it's both talking negatively
about politicians but then also talking negativelyabout overweight people who are sitting down.
Oh, yes, there it is. And the obese milk and welfare.
Well, god, if you're fivefoot three or three hundred pounds, taxes
ought not to pay for your bagsof fudge rounds. So look, instead
(38:24):
of going he well, he issaying that he's going after the rich men
in politics, but he's basically doingtheir bidding with that line by causing you
to blame your fellow man for theirproblem. The obese guys, fudge rounds
are not your are not remotely takingout as much from the budget as tax
(38:45):
cheats are. So that false equivalency, at a minimum is detrimental to our
politics and as creating. Again,this is a populistic song that's talking about
a lot of struggles of the workingclass from a guy who's a farmer out
in Virginia, factory worker. Butit is in fact, using that heel
(39:08):
shaming tactic that he'll populism I talkedabout in my article about MJF last year.
That causes you to villainize your fellowman. And that is a concerning
strain that we are going to seepopping up more and more in politics,
especially as the Republicans try to hijackthe economic narrative and say that bidonomics is
(39:31):
not working. So another thing wehave to we have to keep an eye
out for and try to try tomitigate as we can. And in terms
of this Richmond North of Richmond's song, I feel like I could probably do
a whole episode on it. Butwhat I am going to say is I
(39:52):
trust the anxious millennial cowboy from Aaron'sCreek, Virginia a lot more than Oliver
Anthon me. And he has areally good country music playlist. Hangman Adam
Page of aw one of my favoritepro wrestlers of all time. He has
a great country playlist, and he'she rotates the playlist a bit, but
(40:15):
he has a lot of more progressivecountry music. There's an interesting strain of
country, even even going into likeWillie Nelson in the older stuff that's very
much that's very that's pretty progressive.Some of my work on Adam Page covers
that all linked to that article againin the description of this episode. But
(40:37):
there's a there's a really good strainof country music, like the artists I've
been into our like Rville Peck,Cody Jinks, Ponds or Kings. There's
a lot of good country music thatthat has progressive themes to it, and
conservatives have sort of co opted itfor their own political game, especially with
(40:59):
rich north of Richmond, and trytry that in a small town through this
through this summer, and of coursethis is definitely falling into that heel populism
pattern. You are going to theworking class people who are oppressed by these
by the conservative policies, the oneswho are getting kicked off of medicaid because
(41:22):
of these conservative policies. But no, you're not vilifying the people who are
taking away your medicaid. You arevilifying the person who is eating a few
too many fudge rounds in your opinion. But again, as we have to
be careful in terms of progressive messagingand saying that saying that yes we do
(41:42):
care about fitness, and yes doingfitness stuff, being in really good shape
can be amazing, and it canimprove your fitness, can really improve your
confidence. And I'd encourage you topursue an excellent to pursue an excellent physique
at the top of your potential,to get to that level, because it
(42:05):
does make you feel better, itdoes improve your confidence, it can improve
your health. Fitness is something thatyou can modify more based on your own
effort rather than other physical characteristics,although again they're social determinants of physique.
But I do believe in that,and I believe in creating creating yourself into
the kind of warrior you don't wantto be. You don't have to conform
(42:25):
to the way the villains and theenemies want you to be. You can
become your own character and your ownversion of a champion and stand tall and
be confident in that. And asAdam Page says, let's all keep working
on bettering ourselves. But you're alwaysgood enough for full gear, so you
(42:45):
can be confident even if you're notquite at that six pack level. And
you don't have to blame yourself andshame yourself and view your physique as being
the reason why you are economically notdoing well, and understand the very real
role of economic oppression while continuing towork on yourself and become better as a
(43:09):
person. All right, so thankyou so much for taking the time to
listen to this episode. I'm gonnabe covering more on this, on this
idea of the right wanting you tobasically shame and doubt yourself and shame others
instead of going after who's really causingthe problems, and this kfabe of success
(43:31):
Bros. I'm gonna be watching awall in pro wrestling this weekend. It's
gonna be an amazing wrestling weekend.Please follow me on social media at Fixer
Punk, on TikTok and Instagram,at Grace and Nation Jr. Eys O
n N A t I O Non Twitter or x And if you have
(43:51):
any comments about this episode, ifyou have any crazy workplace experiences, crazy
experiences with success Bros or six sasexperts, or any of these kinds of
possible scams or people that are takingadvantage of other people, please give me
a call, tell me your story, leave a voicemail on the toll free
(44:12):
number eight four four four seven sevenPunk eight four four four seven seven seven
eight six five and I hope youwill join me again next week for the
next episode. This content is forentertainment and general informational purposes only. Will
you not warrant or guarantee the accuracyof the information here in. If you
(44:37):
suspect any medical or mental health concern, please promptly consult a qualified physician.
The listeners should not rely solely uponthis content, and consult a competent professional
before deciding to follow any course ofaction.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.