September 22, 2023 • 39 mins
Walter Wolf therightrehab
originally aired 08.26.2022
https://www.therightrehab.com/
Tahira Rehmatullah
originally aired 04.078.2023
https://mitpress.mit.edu/author/tahira-rehmatullah-38199/
originally aired 08.26.2022
https://www.therightrehab.com/
Tahira Rehmatullah
originally aired 04.078.2023
https://mitpress.mit.edu/author/tahira-rehmatullah-38199/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Welcome to Cannabis Talk a to Zand educational odyssey with your host Frankie Boyer.
Welcome. It is Frankie Boyer.This is an important segment today,
very important joining us is the founderof the Right Rehab. That is also
(00:24):
the book he has written. It'scalled The Right Rehab. Walter Wolf,
Welcome back as always a pleasure.Walter had another life and he was a
very successful producer, director and inthe world of entertainment. And then your
(00:44):
life changed. And Walter, yourwhole story is compelling, but you had
to now take care of your sonin a way that you never ever thought
would ever have been. Explain alittle bit about the backstory, please,
Well, it's not so much ofhelping my son. Basically, it was
(01:07):
helping my son and my family,because I don't care who you are.
When something like when addiction hits thefamily, it includes the whole family.
So fortunately for me, five yearslater, we got out much better,
much better than I ever imagine onthe other side, and I can say
that my son is the poster childfor a recovery. And that's why I
(01:33):
wrote the book, is to explain, Hey, I'm a parent, like
you know, millions and millions ofyou, you know, in the country,
and this is what you can doin order to get to the other
side and have a life where youcan be a family again and you can
see the benefits of recovery, butnot only for the individual, but also
(01:57):
for the family. And that's whytoday, of all things, I'm an
interventionist, and people come to mewhen they need to go to the right
rehab for their particular diagnosis, andalso it also has to fit their resources.
And that's why I ended up writingThe Right Rehab. And I love
(02:17):
that. I'm a good example ofa tragedy turning out to be something really,
really good on the other side.And I love that. And when
Walter and I were talking about cannabis, he said, you know, I
don't know if you're aware, Frankie, but getting high years ago is different
(02:42):
than the products that are being producedtoday. And I thought, for a
moment, you know, this isa very important topic. So we're not
questioning the importance of this plant.And I, you know, I want
the stigma of this plant to changein so many ways because this plant offers
(03:05):
so many wonderful benefits. But Iwould be remiss in doing this. Radio
program to not share that there's alsothe dark side, and I personally have
talked about this on air. Addictionis an equal opportunity problem. It doesn't
matter your wealth, it doesn't matteryour color, it doesn't matter your race,
(03:27):
it doesn't matter anything. It affectseverybody. Everybody is susceptible to addiction.
That being said, yes, Itruly believe in my heart of hearts
that you can be addicted to potbecause I know people who are addicted to
pot, Walt Walter, I knowthem well. Not only is that very
(03:52):
true, actually thirty percent. Thisis all coming from the National Institute on
Drug Abuse, which is funded byour tax dollars, and their work is
remarkable, but thirty percent of marijuanausers have some degree of a marijuana use
disorder. And here's the real issueas far as I'm concerned. And first
(04:12):
I want to establish my credentials here. I'm not a doctor, I don't
have the letters after my name.However, I am a parent and I
am involved in this because today Iam an interventionist and I take people to
treatment. So this is my world, this is what I see, this
is what I experience, and andI can tell you that those who start
using before eighteen years old, thoseadolescents later on to four to seven times
(04:39):
more likely to be addicted to marijuana. And unfortunately, I know we all
used to scoff at. Oh,marijuana is a gateway, drug gateway,
you know what. There are alot of there's a lot of evidence to
show that that's true, because thosewho are addicted to weed, most of
them eventually will become also to othersubstances. And I think that that goes
(05:03):
first, I think, and thatalso goes for alcohol as well. So
I mean it's straight across the board, and you can have many addictions,
including alcoholism and smoking weed too much. But he's yes, you are correct.
But here's the major difference, andthat is, now that marijuana has
(05:24):
been legalized in many states, thereis an increasing acceptance across our country that
marijuana is harmless, that in fact, it can be good for you,
it's organic, it can be healthy, that there's nothing wrong with it.
In other words, marijuana use isgetting is now pretty much normalized in our
(05:46):
country. And as far as legalizationand being a business, I mean,
it's true there has been increased jobs, it has increased tax revenue, it
has increased medical benefits for certain peoplewith certain maladies. That's true. I
totally agree, and therefore people havelabeled it as being safe, healthy and
organic. Here's my point, Frankie. When we were smoking marijuana, when
(06:11):
I see waiting collectively myself, inthe seventies and the eighties and the nineties,
the potency, the THHC content ofmarijuana was an average of anywhere from
two to four percent. Well,today when you go inside, if you
were to go inside a dispensary,it can be the THHC content can be
(06:36):
anywhere from seventeen to twenty eight percent. But the biggest deal, the biggest
deal is that people now are alsosmoking THC, a concentrated THHC, and
the THC content is ninety five percent. So if you were to say,
(06:56):
well, what's the big deal?I was smoking marijuana when I was a
teenager and look at me today,I'm fine. Yeah, but you weren't
smoking the marijuana that people are smokingtoday. So there's a big distinction,
is what you're saying, Walter.Big distinction. There's a huge there's a
huge distinction, and what at firstis today. I mean, there has
(07:20):
been lots and lots of research onthis and it's still continuing. But research
it shows that we that marijuanas haslong term use. Long term use does
have negative effects on attention and memory, and that can that can last for
(07:40):
and learning of course, and thatcan last for days or weeks, you
know, after the acute effects ofthe drug wear off. Am I saying
that that's going to happen with everybody? No? What I am saying?
There are certain risks and the otherrisk involved. There is a study out
of New Zealand that studied teenage auresadolescents starting an adolescence marijuana use and they
(08:03):
continue to use heavily and by thetime they hit their mid twenties, they
had a loss an average loss ofeight IQ points. Okay, and you
ask yourself the question, well,let's say if I stop smoking marijuana,
is it going to help? Isthat Am I going to regain those IQ
(08:24):
points? In some cases you do, you regain some of them, but
in most cases you don't. Andwhat's interesting is when there's the study also
shows that for people who started smokingmarijuana later on in their teens, not
in adolescence, whatever learning disabilities,whatever effects that marijuana had on them,
(08:45):
they do recovery. They do recoverthose those effects from those acute effects.
It's the ones, it is thepeople who starting their adolescence, those and
have heavy use of marijuana through theirtwenties. Those are the ones who are
at risk, and those are thewatchmen who are really paying the price.
(09:05):
So when we talk about this planthaving miraculous benefits, we also have to
talk about there are going to besome that will become addicted to this plant.
There are some that will abuse thisplant. There are some that will
be using it at too young anage, and on and on and on
(09:28):
we go. So there is thereis this line that I straddle doing this
radio show where I want people toget good information and make choices. Options
are really important for me in mylife, and I want them to be
for my audiences life as well.Walter, and I think that people need
(09:50):
to hear all of these stories.That's why we're doing this segment. Well,
I think what people need to knowas well, Frankie, most people
don't know what I'm about to tellyou, and that is way. Man.
I'm gonna let you hold that foughtbecause I'm gonna let you hold that
fought because we have to take aquick break. We will be back with
(10:11):
Walter Wolfe the Right Rehab and Walter, give out all your good information.
Please. The Right Rehab is ifyou go to the Right Rehab dot com
or you can also email me atWalter at the Right Rehab dot com.
And you can also reach me athearing a code three one zero two one
(10:33):
zero four three three four. We'llbe back in just a moment. Cannabis
Talk Ages and Educational Odyssey with FrankieBoyer. Stay tuned, Welcome back.
(11:05):
It is Frankie Boyer and this isCannabis Talk to Z and Educational Odyssey.
Walter Woolf, founder of the RightRehab, the Right Rehab dot Com.
And Walter, welcome back. AndI cut you off. You wanted to
say a very important point before wewent to break, and I'm letting you
do it right now. And thisis really critical for people listening. Go
(11:30):
ahead and share with us. Well. Like I said, I'm talking from
my real world experience as an interventionistand taking people to rehab. And there's
I've had. I have clients whohave developed psychosis from repeated marijuana use.
And what do I mean by psychosis, Well, psychosis basically, it's it's
(11:54):
it's a detachment from a reality.And we know that large amounts of marijuana
it can induce longer lasting psychotic disordersin people, such as delusions, hallucinations,
agitation, and unfortunately, most ofthe time people don't have what they
(12:16):
lack what they call insight, whichmeans that they're usually not aware of their
behavior. Those people can be treatedwith medication, and with treatment, they
can be treated. But here's thebottom line. The bottom line is that
there is a there is a gene. If you are one of the persons
who has who carries a variant ofwhat's called the a k T one gene.
(12:43):
There's a study there shows that peoplewith that variant, they are seven
times more likely to develop psychosis asopposed to someone who does not have that
gene and uses marijuana daily. I'mtalking about people who use marijuana, and
so there is a genetically based vulnerabilityto psychosis. And I have myself clients
(13:11):
who have acute effects some people whosmoke marijuana. Most people who smoke marijuana
smoke it and there's no long lastingeffects. Unfortunately, there are some people
who do have acute effects, andsome people also have this gene. The
acute effects will include a temporary psychosis. Usually what will happen is they use
(13:37):
complete attachment to reality. They're takento the er, and within a couple
of hours they come back, they'refine. The psychosis, you know,
eases, it's over. Unfortunately,Frankie, I also have clients who never
get out of psychosis. Does thatmean that I'm trying to scare people from
(13:58):
you know, don't smoke marijuana becauseyou'll turn into you know, a psychotic
where you're turning into somebody with schizophrenia. No, I'm not. I'm saying
that there are certain risk involved andthere's certain people who have a seven times
higher risk developing a psychosis a psychoticreaction if they have a particular gene and
(14:20):
they're using either using marijuana just fora few times. The Absteen people have
that where has happened in the firstfew times they've used marijuana. But most
of the time it's people who areheavy users of marijuana, of cannabis with
the high potency THC. Yeah,yeah, it's all about ThEC. So
(14:43):
correct, Let's talk about how doyou find out if you have this gene?
Well, as far as I know, if you can get tested for
it, and you're going to haveto go to I would imagine you would
have to go to. What Iwould recommend is go to and there oologist
and let that neurologist test you,which most likely will be a blood test.
(15:05):
But again I'm not an expert onhow to find it, but I
know that there are studies to showthat people who do have it. If
there were me, I go toa neurologist and find out what you can
do to see if you do havethat variant. I also want to go
back to a point that you made, which is a very important point.
(15:26):
So the cannabist that baby booments weresmoking is not the cannabis that they're getting
in dispensaries and that's on the markettoday, and that's a very important distinction.
So we're talking about two different animalshere, correct, And what happens
is is that when you talk abouta product, you know, this is
(15:48):
no longer the marijuana that I usedto smoke in the seventies, where the
THHC content was anywhere from two tofour percent. We're talking about by products
also, I mean just the weeditself, it's anywhere from seventeen or eighteen
percent up to twenty five percent ofTHHC. But then there are byproducts of
marijuana where the THD is concentrated,and when you smoke that you're you're smoking
(16:15):
something which can be up to ninetyfive percent okay of THC. And what
happens, And again I'm not tryingto scare people. I'm just trying to
explain to people. Here are therisk the real risk risk involved, and
that is if somebody is using thisdaily, well, they could be functioning
(16:40):
at a reduced intellectual level either mostof the time or unfortunately, you know,
all of the time. And whathappens with people who are I'm starting
talking about people who starting their adolescentsand smoke heavily, you know, up
until you know, through their twentieWell, unfortunately, study show that they're
(17:00):
less likely than their non USY peersversus to finish high school or even to
get a degree. They have higherodds of developing substance use disorders. Unfortunately,
there's also many people who have suicideideation. In other words, they
will also have suicide attempts. Theynormally will have let's say, a lower
(17:22):
income, a greater dependence on welfare, unemployment, and unfortunately some criminal behavior.
Am I saying everybody who smokes itwill do that? Though I'm not,
I'm not. What I'm saying isthat with anything else in life,
there are risks attached to doing whateverthat you are doing. When it comes
(17:42):
to marijuana, the risk increase withbecause of the THAC content. And these
are results of real world results andalso of studies. Again, I'm not
saying everybody's going to have that experience. I'm just saying the risk increases.
Certain people do have these responses.That is the point. And then there's
(18:06):
also some studies that I've seen.I haven't looked extensively at them, but
that something for us to talk aboutmaybe down the road, is that many
kids have been on medication for ADHDand then they're smoking, and the combination
of these medications and cannabis at avery early age also has impact as well.
(18:27):
So there's a lot of variables thatwe have to look at, but
are many many variables. I reallycan't excuse me, I really can't comment
on the ADHD medication and marijuana becauseI don't have any real world experience,
(18:47):
as you know, in what Ido of that being documented as a as
an effect. But we do knowone thing is that there are many many
studies being on the effects of marijuana, excuse me, especially the effects of
THHD, and a lot of theseyou know, are still going on.
(19:08):
They have not been coming. Iwas just going to say, we were
just starting to get new information becauseof the fact that we can do some
studies now and that it's legal inso many states. Walter Wolf, this
is an ongoing conversation, but I'mthrilled you were with us today. The
Right Rehab give us all that goodinformation for people to connect with you.
(19:29):
It's Walter Wolf and you may emailme at Walter at the Right Rehab dot
Com. You may phone me,you may call me an area go three
one zero two one zero four threethree four, and you may also go
to my website which is the RightRehab dot Com. Wonderful, Thank you
so much. We have to takea quick break. It is Cannabis Talk,
(19:52):
AHS and Educational Odyssey with Frankie Boyer. Will be back in a moment.
Welcome back. It is Frankie Boyerwith Tahara and Tara. Welcome back.
A partner at Highland's Venture Partners andprofounder and CEO of Commons, and
(20:17):
you also are on the board ofdirectors for the Last Prisoner Project and you're
referred to in the press as themost powerful woman in cannabis. Why do
you think you got that that title? Oh, you know, I think
it's I was just one of theearlier women in the space who was starting
to show up in the same roomsas some of the men who are around.
(20:40):
Uh, you know, I Ihave a background in finance and business
operations, and so coming into thespace, that's that's an area that I
focused on and was fortunate to workon some early initiatives, you know,
an early brand, early kind offirsts in the industry. And I don't
know if I necessarily deserve that titletoday, but at one point in time,
there weren't that many women running aroundin the space, and I'm pleased
(21:03):
to say that that has changed theLast Prisoner Project. It just saddens me
to see that if you didn't havethe right lawyer and you didn't have the
savvy to understand the system, thatyou got stuck. You got stuck in
(21:26):
a holding pattern that led to imprisonment. Where are these prisoners today and how
many of them are there in yourin your opinion, Well, I'll answer
that second part because they're actually justthis is an ongoing conversation that we constantly
(21:48):
have, is that sadly we're nottotally sure of what that number is,
but the estimate estimate could be fortyto fifty thousand people who are impacted and
still sitting in jail. There areother estimates that go even higher than that,
by tens of thousands of people.And so unfortunately, the data is
not you know, it's reporting thathas to come from different agencies, and
(22:14):
so it's not always the cleanest information. But we continue to refine that.
But the Last Prisoner Project is dedicatedto making sure that no one should remain
incarcerated for cannabis offenses. Obviously,there are some some caveats to that,
and that's the something that the organizationis very aware of. But they really
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they brought together a group of individualswho are impacted by a policy and education
experts, leaders on the criminal justiceside, and policy reform to really try
to make a difference and advocate forthose people, help those people get out
of prison. But you know,it's a it's a very challenging process,
and I think about if I wasin that position, what I even know
(22:56):
what to do? And they're justworking tiresly to make sure that they free
as many people as possible and givethem resources after the fact as well to
be able to reintegrate into society.It's so do we not do we take
for granted the freedoms that we've beengiven? Is this an example of blatant
(23:22):
a blatant example of how you youknow, the wrong time and the freedoms
that are around today? I mean, when you think of some of the
stories, you know, we highlightenthe book, but there's so many more
beyond that that. There are peoplewho have gone to jail and have been
(23:42):
given life sentences without parole for sellingthe equivalent of twenty dollars worth of cannabis.
Yes, a joint, Yes,I mean you think about that,
a life sentence for a joint thatyou can now buy anywhere in New York
City. It's exactly, how isit possible and how is it that we
(24:06):
don't have a way to expunge allof these records across the country in one
fell swoop, you know, andwe don't. That's that's the problem.
That's why an organization like Last PrisonerProject and so many other great organizations are
emerging because that's not the case.We don't make it easy and we can't.
I mean, how have we donethis to hundreds and thousands of people
(24:30):
who are sitting in jail for somethingthat is benign? You know? Absolutely,
do we take our freedoms for granted? Absolutely, because these people are
sitting in prison and even when theycome out, they're felons, they don't
have rights. Often when they comeout. Why do we think that this
kind of culture of disenfranchisement continues.They don't have resources, they don't have
(24:51):
education, you can't get jobs,you can't vote, you can't get a
mortgage. What are you going todo? And you know these are these
are parts of different policies that wereally need to understand and change in order
for people to be in society.And how can we not allow them to
even be engaged in the industry thatthey were involved with long before anybody today
(25:15):
who is probably making millions was involvedwith. I think it should be I
think it's disgusting that every cannabis owneris not fighting for these people in prison,
I really do. I think itshould be like a built in given
(25:37):
that if you have the right toopen up a license, to open up
a shop a dispensary, that someof that money needs to go toward those
prisoners getting out of jail should bemandually. I mean, it really should
be. And we as Americans areshould be appalled. Yeah, that is
(26:04):
something that a class and I aswe were thinking about how do we raise
awareness and how do we really bringthese stories forward. You know, one
thing that kept coming to mind forus is that people should notice because they
should be outraged. They should beoutraged that this is what has happened and
it's still happening. And only Joe, I'm not people should, you know,
(26:27):
take to the streets and get violent. But people should know that this
is what is happening and use theirvoices and their resources to change it.
At all levels. It's not justa one size fits all, you know,
if you fix this one thing,it's not going to correct everything.
We need to put in place toolsthat will correct what we have done in
(26:48):
the past. We have to becausethese people, these populations, there's there's
nothing for them to do themselves.We've made it so difficult both at you
know, legal levels, from abusiness perspective, and so one thing that
we do talk about is just howdo we how do we pay it forward
and create the opportunity. And youknow, Frank you what you're saying is
(27:11):
every cannabis store business owner should makeit part of it. We also talk
about how it should be part ofevery state's policy, so every news it
should be comes online some kind ofsocial equity. Well, they're taxing,
you know. The irony of itall is that they're taxing these cannabis organizations
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to the limit, I mean,beyond reasonable, beyond reasonable everybody. They're
paying beyond what any other business wouldpay. So take that money and pay
it forward because having them in prisonis costing all of us dearly, and
it's ruining so many lives and families. That's the insidiousness of it all.
(28:00):
Yeah. One interesting element of thatis, you know, you bring up
how how much it's costing all ofus. People don't realize that all of
our taxpayer money that's going to imprisonmentinstead of going to social services, you
know, hospitals, schools, andwhat New York State has done, which
(28:22):
we'll see how it plays out.It hasn't necessarily played out the way we
would hope so far but it's stillearly. Is that they have an allocation
for tax money that comes in andthe way it'll be allocated back to communities
that have been harmed by the waron drugs. So you know, there's
a there's an element there where youhave this social Equity Cannabis Fund that will
(28:45):
actually think about that landscape. Buteverybody needs to be doing that. It
should be a no brainer. Itshouldn't be something that comes, you know,
ten years down the path. Thathas to be there from day one,
and it has to be part ofthe narrative because people need to understand
why it's happening and what has happened, and where dollars are going. What
(29:07):
do you want to support everything thatwe're paying for? What do you want
to support You want to support morepeople in jail, more enforcement of minority
populations, or for the services thatcan benefit the strength and growth of the
communities that we live in. Yeah, oh my gosh, absolutely absolutely.
I have a question for you thatI'd love for you to answer. When
(29:32):
we come back. We have toget ready for a break. There are
many many books that talk about themedicinal benefits of cannabis. You don't really
get into that with this book,and I'd love to know some of the
background behind it. And then Ireally want to talk about the addiction piece
(29:53):
of the story that very few peopletalk about, and I think it's one
that I think we need to talkabout. We really truly need to talk
about it. We'll continue. Ican't believe how quickly this hour has gone.
We're talking today for the full hourwith Tahara Ramatula. The new book
(30:15):
is out. She co authored.It is called Waiting to Inhale Cannabis Legislation.
Stay tuned. This is Cannabis TalkAges and educational Odyssey with Frankie Boyer.
Will be right back. Welcome back. It is Frankie Boyer. This
(31:11):
is Cannabis Talk, a toc hean educational odyssey. And what an hour
we have had. I just saidto Harrah, I can't believe how quickly
it's gone by Torah Rama Tula iswith us today. Her new book is
out. It is called Waiting toInhale. Tell us a little bit about
(31:32):
your co author and his connection.It's so fascinating how he is so much
involved in the addiction world. Yeah, Quasi is a very very impressive person,
and you know, I was justthrilled at the opportunity to work with
him and learn from him throughout thisprocess. He's a professor in the Department
(31:53):
of Sociology at the University of Toronto. He's a senior fellow at Massey College,
and he has he's an affiliate scientistat the Center for Addiction and Mental
Health, and it has really focuseda lot of research on those elements as
well as cannabis amnesty. His focushas been around the intersections of race crime,
(32:16):
criminal justice, and it's been fascinatingto really learn so much from him
throughout this process as we've been we'vebeen working on the book because I don't
think people realize how all of thesepieces, all of these race crime,
all of that is really intertwined.And I think we're seeing that a lot
more today, you know, particularlyaround addiction and mental health. And it's
(32:38):
been you know, it's something thatwe don't get to dive into that much
in the book. There's a lotthat had to be left on the on
the cutting room floor, but it'ssomething that I hope we can talk more
about. My question to you isI truly believe that addicts can be addicted
(32:58):
to anything and So even though manythat I interview on this program say that
cannabis is not addictive, I wantto know what your thoughts are you and
your partner on this book, whatdo you think your co author? Well,
I think we have discussed you know, the reality is to your point,
(33:22):
Frankie, you can be addicted toanything, and that is true for
people who are addicted to sugar,to caffeine, to you know, adventure,
you name it. So it's certainlynot something that we say that you
know, you cannot get addicted.There there are people who will say that
you cannot. But my belief anda quasi as well, is that there
(33:44):
are elements of addiction for anything,and cannabis included. What we don't have
is any research that shows addictive qualitiesof cannabis in the same way that you
know, even sugar and caffeine aresometimes shown to be more addict to.
However, I'm a firm believer thateverything needs to be in moderation no matter
(34:05):
what it is, because the addictionis pretty widespread. And you know,
I think we just assume that it'ssomething like heroin or cocaine or something along
those lines, but it's not andtoo much of anything can be challenging for
you, so certainly not coming froma position that cannabis should be consumed all
day, every day in lieu ofanything else. I know that with alcohol
(34:31):
it runs in the genes, andI'm wondering if there's any evidence and if
anything was studied in Israel or Spain, because they're leading pioneers in the studies
of a family gene that could possiblytie over when it comes to the world
(34:52):
of cannabis. You know, wehaven't seen that much research around it,
even out of but I think thatthese are all coming because now that we
have more availability, even for thetesting element of it, to be able
to do the studies to see ifthere is any passage from one family member
(35:15):
to the next. I mean,the reality is that the research element is
still pretty new. You know.Israel is really the leader on that front.
We've been other countries have been tryingto do more, but hands are
tied to some degree because of thelegality elements and which are actually able to
access or not. So we don'thave any research that I have seen yet
(35:38):
that shows us that. But Ido firmly believe that it's something that is
needed and I do think it willcome over time. We also just don't
have enough of a population base reallyto show that just yet. You know,
some people still won't admit about theirconsumption, and so we're still working
on the stigma element of being ableto share that this is something that people
(36:00):
are using regularly in their lives.You write about real people in your book
who have really made an impact onyou, can you just share We don't
have a whole lot of time,but a quick story or two. Yeah,
so one happy to share about MichaelThompson, who was serving a ridiculous
(36:25):
amount of time in prison, andyou know, he was had a whole
life ahead of him and then waspicked up for a cannabis transaction in Michigan
and then ended up disturbing several decadesin prison. And really his cannabis crime
(36:47):
led to police using buns as away to get more time for Michael in
prison. And he's someone that hisstory is heartbreaking. You know, his
mother died while he was in prison. He missed, he missed decades of
his children's life. And he wasreleased a few years ago because nobody should
(37:08):
be I mean, Michigan is legal. So what he went to jail four
doesn't even exist anymore. But hewas in there for decades and decades,
and now you know, he's inhis sixties and trying to restart life and
just hearing what led to that happening, and how he's trying to get back
on his feet and also advocate forothers who were in a position like he
(37:30):
was, because now he's on theside and he is seeing what is happening.
You know that that transition to lifeoutside of prison is not easy,
and so wanting to help the servingtime for things that happened to him and
as well as those who are comingout. Another woman is Evelyn Musha Palace.
She was in prison for assisting intrafficking. You know, she had
(37:52):
a young daughter and was able toget out of prison, but it was
devastating, you know, the timethat she was in there, her ability
to get jobs. Now she waswell educated, had a whole life ahead
of her and now is working inthe cannabis industry, has her own brand.
She's in part of the Last PrisonerProject, and just being able to
(38:14):
hear from people who are actual constituentnice. Yes, yes, yes,
this has been such a treat havingyou with us today to hear really,
it's just amazing to hear our tula. The book is available MIT Press and
it is such an important book waitingto inhale and real quickly. The best
(38:42):
way people can get the book Amazonwherever books are sold. Yeah, you
can get an Amazon, Barnton,Noble, Penguin, Random House. All
three of those locations on those websiteshost the book. Wonderful. Thank you
so much for being with us today. Thank you and thank you all.
(39:02):
This has been another edition of CannabisTalk, a tousey and educational odyssey with
Frankie Boyer. Thanks for listening.Make it a great day everybody, and
as always, smile. What's somebody
Welcome to Cannabis Talk a to Zand educational odyssey with your host Frankie Boyer.
Welcome. It is Frankie Boyer.This is an important segment today,
very important joining us is the founderof the Right Rehab. That is also
(00:24):
the book he has written. It'scalled The Right Rehab. Walter Wolf,
Welcome back as always a pleasure.Walter had another life and he was a
very successful producer, director and inthe world of entertainment. And then your
(00:44):
life changed. And Walter, yourwhole story is compelling, but you had
to now take care of your sonin a way that you never ever thought
would ever have been. Explain alittle bit about the backstory, please,
Well, it's not so much ofhelping my son. Basically, it was
(01:07):
helping my son and my family,because I don't care who you are.
When something like when addiction hits thefamily, it includes the whole family.
So fortunately for me, five yearslater, we got out much better,
much better than I ever imagine onthe other side, and I can say
that my son is the poster childfor a recovery. And that's why I
(01:33):
wrote the book, is to explain, Hey, I'm a parent, like
you know, millions and millions ofyou, you know, in the country,
and this is what you can doin order to get to the other
side and have a life where youcan be a family again and you can
see the benefits of recovery, butnot only for the individual, but also
(01:57):
for the family. And that's whytoday, of all things, I'm an
interventionist, and people come to mewhen they need to go to the right
rehab for their particular diagnosis, andalso it also has to fit their resources.
And that's why I ended up writingThe Right Rehab. And I love
(02:17):
that. I'm a good example ofa tragedy turning out to be something really,
really good on the other side.And I love that. And when
Walter and I were talking about cannabis, he said, you know, I
don't know if you're aware, Frankie, but getting high years ago is different
(02:42):
than the products that are being producedtoday. And I thought, for a
moment, you know, this isa very important topic. So we're not
questioning the importance of this plant.And I, you know, I want
the stigma of this plant to changein so many ways because this plant offers
(03:05):
so many wonderful benefits. But Iwould be remiss in doing this. Radio
program to not share that there's alsothe dark side, and I personally have
talked about this on air. Addictionis an equal opportunity problem. It doesn't
matter your wealth, it doesn't matteryour color, it doesn't matter your race,
(03:27):
it doesn't matter anything. It affectseverybody. Everybody is susceptible to addiction.
That being said, yes, Itruly believe in my heart of hearts
that you can be addicted to potbecause I know people who are addicted to
pot, Walt Walter, I knowthem well. Not only is that very
(03:52):
true, actually thirty percent. Thisis all coming from the National Institute on
Drug Abuse, which is funded byour tax dollars, and their work is
remarkable, but thirty percent of marijuanausers have some degree of a marijuana use
disorder. And here's the real issueas far as I'm concerned. And first
(04:12):
I want to establish my credentials here. I'm not a doctor, I don't
have the letters after my name.However, I am a parent and I
am involved in this because today Iam an interventionist and I take people to
treatment. So this is my world, this is what I see, this
is what I experience, and andI can tell you that those who start
using before eighteen years old, thoseadolescents later on to four to seven times
(04:39):
more likely to be addicted to marijuana. And unfortunately, I know we all
used to scoff at. Oh,marijuana is a gateway, drug gateway,
you know what. There are alot of there's a lot of evidence to
show that that's true, because thosewho are addicted to weed, most of
them eventually will become also to othersubstances. And I think that that goes
(05:03):
first, I think, and thatalso goes for alcohol as well. So
I mean it's straight across the board, and you can have many addictions,
including alcoholism and smoking weed too much. But he's yes, you are correct.
But here's the major difference, andthat is, now that marijuana has
(05:24):
been legalized in many states, thereis an increasing acceptance across our country that
marijuana is harmless, that in fact, it can be good for you,
it's organic, it can be healthy, that there's nothing wrong with it.
In other words, marijuana use isgetting is now pretty much normalized in our
(05:46):
country. And as far as legalizationand being a business, I mean,
it's true there has been increased jobs, it has increased tax revenue, it
has increased medical benefits for certain peoplewith certain maladies. That's true. I
totally agree, and therefore people havelabeled it as being safe, healthy and
organic. Here's my point, Frankie. When we were smoking marijuana, when
(06:11):
I see waiting collectively myself, inthe seventies and the eighties and the nineties,
the potency, the THHC content ofmarijuana was an average of anywhere from
two to four percent. Well,today when you go inside, if you
were to go inside a dispensary,it can be the THHC content can be
(06:36):
anywhere from seventeen to twenty eight percent. But the biggest deal, the biggest
deal is that people now are alsosmoking THC, a concentrated THHC, and
the THC content is ninety five percent. So if you were to say,
(06:56):
well, what's the big deal?I was smoking marijuana when I was a
teenager and look at me today,I'm fine. Yeah, but you weren't
smoking the marijuana that people are smokingtoday. So there's a big distinction,
is what you're saying, Walter.Big distinction. There's a huge there's a
huge distinction, and what at firstis today. I mean, there has
(07:20):
been lots and lots of research onthis and it's still continuing. But research
it shows that we that marijuanas haslong term use. Long term use does
have negative effects on attention and memory, and that can that can last for
(07:40):
and learning of course, and thatcan last for days or weeks, you
know, after the acute effects ofthe drug wear off. Am I saying
that that's going to happen with everybody? No? What I am saying?
There are certain risks and the otherrisk involved. There is a study out
of New Zealand that studied teenage auresadolescents starting an adolescence marijuana use and they
(08:03):
continue to use heavily and by thetime they hit their mid twenties, they
had a loss an average loss ofeight IQ points. Okay, and you
ask yourself the question, well,let's say if I stop smoking marijuana,
is it going to help? Isthat Am I going to regain those IQ
(08:24):
points? In some cases you do, you regain some of them, but
in most cases you don't. Andwhat's interesting is when there's the study also
shows that for people who started smokingmarijuana later on in their teens, not
in adolescence, whatever learning disabilities,whatever effects that marijuana had on them,
(08:45):
they do recovery. They do recoverthose those effects from those acute effects.
It's the ones, it is thepeople who starting their adolescence, those and
have heavy use of marijuana through theirtwenties. Those are the ones who are
at risk, and those are thewatchmen who are really paying the price.
(09:05):
So when we talk about this planthaving miraculous benefits, we also have to
talk about there are going to besome that will become addicted to this plant.
There are some that will abuse thisplant. There are some that will
be using it at too young anage, and on and on and on
(09:28):
we go. So there is thereis this line that I straddle doing this
radio show where I want people toget good information and make choices. Options
are really important for me in mylife, and I want them to be
for my audiences life as well.Walter, and I think that people need
(09:50):
to hear all of these stories.That's why we're doing this segment. Well,
I think what people need to knowas well, Frankie, most people
don't know what I'm about to tellyou, and that is way. Man.
I'm gonna let you hold that foughtbecause I'm gonna let you hold that
fought because we have to take aquick break. We will be back with
(10:11):
Walter Wolfe the Right Rehab and Walter, give out all your good information.
Please. The Right Rehab is ifyou go to the Right Rehab dot com
or you can also email me atWalter at the Right Rehab dot com.
And you can also reach me athearing a code three one zero two one
(10:33):
zero four three three four. We'llbe back in just a moment. Cannabis
Talk Ages and Educational Odyssey with FrankieBoyer. Stay tuned, Welcome back.
(11:05):
It is Frankie Boyer and this isCannabis Talk to Z and Educational Odyssey.
Walter Woolf, founder of the RightRehab, the Right Rehab dot Com.
And Walter, welcome back. AndI cut you off. You wanted to
say a very important point before wewent to break, and I'm letting you
do it right now. And thisis really critical for people listening. Go
(11:30):
ahead and share with us. Well. Like I said, I'm talking from
my real world experience as an interventionistand taking people to rehab. And there's
I've had. I have clients whohave developed psychosis from repeated marijuana use.
And what do I mean by psychosis, Well, psychosis basically, it's it's
(11:54):
it's a detachment from a reality.And we know that large amounts of marijuana
it can induce longer lasting psychotic disordersin people, such as delusions, hallucinations,
agitation, and unfortunately, most ofthe time people don't have what they
(12:16):
lack what they call insight, whichmeans that they're usually not aware of their
behavior. Those people can be treatedwith medication, and with treatment, they
can be treated. But here's thebottom line. The bottom line is that
there is a there is a gene. If you are one of the persons
who has who carries a variant ofwhat's called the a k T one gene.
(12:43):
There's a study there shows that peoplewith that variant, they are seven
times more likely to develop psychosis asopposed to someone who does not have that
gene and uses marijuana daily. I'mtalking about people who use marijuana, and
so there is a genetically based vulnerabilityto psychosis. And I have myself clients
(13:11):
who have acute effects some people whosmoke marijuana. Most people who smoke marijuana
smoke it and there's no long lastingeffects. Unfortunately, there are some people
who do have acute effects, andsome people also have this gene. The
acute effects will include a temporary psychosis. Usually what will happen is they use
(13:37):
complete attachment to reality. They're takento the er, and within a couple
of hours they come back, they'refine. The psychosis, you know,
eases, it's over. Unfortunately,Frankie, I also have clients who never
get out of psychosis. Does thatmean that I'm trying to scare people from
(13:58):
you know, don't smoke marijuana becauseyou'll turn into you know, a psychotic
where you're turning into somebody with schizophrenia. No, I'm not. I'm saying
that there are certain risk involved andthere's certain people who have a seven times
higher risk developing a psychosis a psychoticreaction if they have a particular gene and
(14:20):
they're using either using marijuana just fora few times. The Absteen people have
that where has happened in the firstfew times they've used marijuana. But most
of the time it's people who areheavy users of marijuana, of cannabis with
the high potency THC. Yeah,yeah, it's all about ThEC. So
(14:43):
correct, Let's talk about how doyou find out if you have this gene?
Well, as far as I know, if you can get tested for
it, and you're going to haveto go to I would imagine you would
have to go to. What Iwould recommend is go to and there oologist
and let that neurologist test you,which most likely will be a blood test.
(15:05):
But again I'm not an expert onhow to find it, but I
know that there are studies to showthat people who do have it. If
there were me, I go toa neurologist and find out what you can
do to see if you do havethat variant. I also want to go
back to a point that you made, which is a very important point.
(15:26):
So the cannabist that baby booments weresmoking is not the cannabis that they're getting
in dispensaries and that's on the markettoday, and that's a very important distinction.
So we're talking about two different animalshere, correct, And what happens
is is that when you talk abouta product, you know, this is
(15:48):
no longer the marijuana that I usedto smoke in the seventies, where the
THHC content was anywhere from two tofour percent. We're talking about by products
also, I mean just the weeditself, it's anywhere from seventeen or eighteen
percent up to twenty five percent ofTHHC. But then there are byproducts of
marijuana where the THD is concentrated,and when you smoke that you're you're smoking
(16:15):
something which can be up to ninetyfive percent okay of THC. And what
happens, And again I'm not tryingto scare people. I'm just trying to
explain to people. Here are therisk the real risk risk involved, and
that is if somebody is using thisdaily, well, they could be functioning
(16:40):
at a reduced intellectual level either mostof the time or unfortunately, you know,
all of the time. And whathappens with people who are I'm starting
talking about people who starting their adolescentsand smoke heavily, you know, up
until you know, through their twentieWell, unfortunately, study show that they're
(17:00):
less likely than their non USY peersversus to finish high school or even to
get a degree. They have higherodds of developing substance use disorders. Unfortunately,
there's also many people who have suicideideation. In other words, they
will also have suicide attempts. Theynormally will have let's say, a lower
(17:22):
income, a greater dependence on welfare, unemployment, and unfortunately some criminal behavior.
Am I saying everybody who smokes itwill do that? Though I'm not,
I'm not. What I'm saying isthat with anything else in life,
there are risks attached to doing whateverthat you are doing. When it comes
(17:42):
to marijuana, the risk increase withbecause of the THAC content. And these
are results of real world results andalso of studies. Again, I'm not
saying everybody's going to have that experience. I'm just saying the risk increases.
Certain people do have these responses.That is the point. And then there's
(18:06):
also some studies that I've seen.I haven't looked extensively at them, but
that something for us to talk aboutmaybe down the road, is that many
kids have been on medication for ADHDand then they're smoking, and the combination
of these medications and cannabis at avery early age also has impact as well.
(18:27):
So there's a lot of variables thatwe have to look at, but
are many many variables. I reallycan't excuse me, I really can't comment
on the ADHD medication and marijuana becauseI don't have any real world experience,
(18:47):
as you know, in what Ido of that being documented as a as
an effect. But we do knowone thing is that there are many many
studies being on the effects of marijuana, excuse me, especially the effects of
THHD, and a lot of theseyou know, are still going on.
(19:08):
They have not been coming. Iwas just going to say, we were
just starting to get new information becauseof the fact that we can do some
studies now and that it's legal inso many states. Walter Wolf, this
is an ongoing conversation, but I'mthrilled you were with us today. The
Right Rehab give us all that goodinformation for people to connect with you.
(19:29):
It's Walter Wolf and you may emailme at Walter at the Right Rehab dot
Com. You may phone me,you may call me an area go three
one zero two one zero four threethree four, and you may also go
to my website which is the RightRehab dot Com. Wonderful, Thank you
so much. We have to takea quick break. It is Cannabis Talk,
(19:52):
AHS and Educational Odyssey with Frankie Boyer. Will be back in a moment.
Welcome back. It is Frankie Boyerwith Tahara and Tara. Welcome back.
A partner at Highland's Venture Partners andprofounder and CEO of Commons, and
(20:17):
you also are on the board ofdirectors for the Last Prisoner Project and you're
referred to in the press as themost powerful woman in cannabis. Why do
you think you got that that title? Oh, you know, I think
it's I was just one of theearlier women in the space who was starting
to show up in the same roomsas some of the men who are around.
(20:40):
Uh, you know, I Ihave a background in finance and business
operations, and so coming into thespace, that's that's an area that I
focused on and was fortunate to workon some early initiatives, you know,
an early brand, early kind offirsts in the industry. And I don't
know if I necessarily deserve that titletoday, but at one point in time,
there weren't that many women running aroundin the space, and I'm pleased
(21:03):
to say that that has changed theLast Prisoner Project. It just saddens me
to see that if you didn't havethe right lawyer and you didn't have the
savvy to understand the system, thatyou got stuck. You got stuck in
(21:26):
a holding pattern that led to imprisonment. Where are these prisoners today and how
many of them are there in yourin your opinion, Well, I'll answer
that second part because they're actually justthis is an ongoing conversation that we constantly
(21:48):
have, is that sadly we're nottotally sure of what that number is,
but the estimate estimate could be fortyto fifty thousand people who are impacted and
still sitting in jail. There areother estimates that go even higher than that,
by tens of thousands of people.And so unfortunately, the data is
not you know, it's reporting thathas to come from different agencies, and
(22:14):
so it's not always the cleanest information. But we continue to refine that.
But the Last Prisoner Project is dedicatedto making sure that no one should remain
incarcerated for cannabis offenses. Obviously,there are some some caveats to that,
and that's the something that the organizationis very aware of. But they really
(22:36):
they brought together a group of individualswho are impacted by a policy and education
experts, leaders on the criminal justiceside, and policy reform to really try
to make a difference and advocate forthose people, help those people get out
of prison. But you know,it's a it's a very challenging process,
and I think about if I wasin that position, what I even know
(22:56):
what to do? And they're justworking tiresly to make sure that they free
as many people as possible and givethem resources after the fact as well to
be able to reintegrate into society.It's so do we not do we take
for granted the freedoms that we've beengiven? Is this an example of blatant
(23:22):
a blatant example of how you youknow, the wrong time and the freedoms
that are around today? I mean, when you think of some of the
stories, you know, we highlightenthe book, but there's so many more
beyond that that. There are peoplewho have gone to jail and have been
(23:42):
given life sentences without parole for sellingthe equivalent of twenty dollars worth of cannabis.
Yes, a joint, Yes,I mean you think about that,
a life sentence for a joint thatyou can now buy anywhere in New York
City. It's exactly, how isit possible and how is it that we
(24:06):
don't have a way to expunge allof these records across the country in one
fell swoop, you know, andwe don't. That's that's the problem.
That's why an organization like Last PrisonerProject and so many other great organizations are
emerging because that's not the case.We don't make it easy and we can't.
I mean, how have we donethis to hundreds and thousands of people
(24:30):
who are sitting in jail for somethingthat is benign? You know? Absolutely,
do we take our freedoms for granted? Absolutely, because these people are
sitting in prison and even when theycome out, they're felons, they don't
have rights. Often when they comeout. Why do we think that this
kind of culture of disenfranchisement continues.They don't have resources, they don't have
(24:51):
education, you can't get jobs,you can't vote, you can't get a
mortgage. What are you going todo? And you know these are these
are parts of different policies that wereally need to understand and change in order
for people to be in society.And how can we not allow them to
even be engaged in the industry thatthey were involved with long before anybody today
(25:15):
who is probably making millions was involvedwith. I think it should be I
think it's disgusting that every cannabis owneris not fighting for these people in prison,
I really do. I think itshould be like a built in given
(25:37):
that if you have the right toopen up a license, to open up
a shop a dispensary, that someof that money needs to go toward those
prisoners getting out of jail should bemandually. I mean, it really should
be. And we as Americans areshould be appalled. Yeah, that is
(26:04):
something that a class and I aswe were thinking about how do we raise
awareness and how do we really bringthese stories forward. You know, one
thing that kept coming to mind forus is that people should notice because they
should be outraged. They should beoutraged that this is what has happened and
it's still happening. And only Joe, I'm not people should, you know,
(26:27):
take to the streets and get violent. But people should know that this
is what is happening and use theirvoices and their resources to change it.
At all levels. It's not justa one size fits all, you know,
if you fix this one thing,it's not going to correct everything.
We need to put in place toolsthat will correct what we have done in
(26:48):
the past. We have to becausethese people, these populations, there's there's
nothing for them to do themselves.We've made it so difficult both at you
know, legal levels, from abusiness perspective, and so one thing that
we do talk about is just howdo we how do we pay it forward
and create the opportunity. And youknow, Frank you what you're saying is
(27:11):
every cannabis store business owner should makeit part of it. We also talk
about how it should be part ofevery state's policy, so every news it
should be comes online some kind ofsocial equity. Well, they're taxing,
you know. The irony of itall is that they're taxing these cannabis organizations
(27:33):
to the limit, I mean,beyond reasonable, beyond reasonable everybody. They're
paying beyond what any other business wouldpay. So take that money and pay
it forward because having them in prisonis costing all of us dearly, and
it's ruining so many lives and families. That's the insidiousness of it all.
(28:00):
Yeah. One interesting element of thatis, you know, you bring up
how how much it's costing all ofus. People don't realize that all of
our taxpayer money that's going to imprisonmentinstead of going to social services, you
know, hospitals, schools, andwhat New York State has done, which
(28:22):
we'll see how it plays out.It hasn't necessarily played out the way we
would hope so far but it's stillearly. Is that they have an allocation
for tax money that comes in andthe way it'll be allocated back to communities
that have been harmed by the waron drugs. So you know, there's
a there's an element there where youhave this social Equity Cannabis Fund that will
(28:45):
actually think about that landscape. Buteverybody needs to be doing that. It
should be a no brainer. Itshouldn't be something that comes, you know,
ten years down the path. Thathas to be there from day one,
and it has to be part ofthe narrative because people need to understand
why it's happening and what has happened, and where dollars are going. What
(29:07):
do you want to support everything thatwe're paying for? What do you want
to support You want to support morepeople in jail, more enforcement of minority
populations, or for the services thatcan benefit the strength and growth of the
communities that we live in. Yeah, oh my gosh, absolutely absolutely.
I have a question for you thatI'd love for you to answer. When
(29:32):
we come back. We have toget ready for a break. There are
many many books that talk about themedicinal benefits of cannabis. You don't really
get into that with this book,and I'd love to know some of the
background behind it. And then Ireally want to talk about the addiction piece
(29:53):
of the story that very few peopletalk about, and I think it's one
that I think we need to talkabout. We really truly need to talk
about it. We'll continue. Ican't believe how quickly this hour has gone.
We're talking today for the full hourwith Tahara Ramatula. The new book
(30:15):
is out. She co authored.It is called Waiting to Inhale Cannabis Legislation.
Stay tuned. This is Cannabis TalkAges and educational Odyssey with Frankie Boyer.
Will be right back. Welcome back. It is Frankie Boyer. This
(31:11):
is Cannabis Talk, a toc hean educational odyssey. And what an hour
we have had. I just saidto Harrah, I can't believe how quickly
it's gone by Torah Rama Tula iswith us today. Her new book is
out. It is called Waiting toInhale. Tell us a little bit about
(31:32):
your co author and his connection.It's so fascinating how he is so much
involved in the addiction world. Yeah, Quasi is a very very impressive person,
and you know, I was justthrilled at the opportunity to work with
him and learn from him throughout thisprocess. He's a professor in the Department
(31:53):
of Sociology at the University of Toronto. He's a senior fellow at Massey College,
and he has he's an affiliate scientistat the Center for Addiction and Mental
Health, and it has really focuseda lot of research on those elements as
well as cannabis amnesty. His focushas been around the intersections of race crime,
(32:16):
criminal justice, and it's been fascinatingto really learn so much from him
throughout this process as we've been we'vebeen working on the book because I don't
think people realize how all of thesepieces, all of these race crime,
all of that is really intertwined.And I think we're seeing that a lot
more today, you know, particularlyaround addiction and mental health. And it's
(32:38):
been you know, it's something thatwe don't get to dive into that much
in the book. There's a lotthat had to be left on the on
the cutting room floor, but it'ssomething that I hope we can talk more
about. My question to you isI truly believe that addicts can be addicted
(32:58):
to anything and So even though manythat I interview on this program say that
cannabis is not addictive, I wantto know what your thoughts are you and
your partner on this book, whatdo you think your co author? Well,
I think we have discussed you know, the reality is to your point,
(33:22):
Frankie, you can be addicted toanything, and that is true for
people who are addicted to sugar,to caffeine, to you know, adventure,
you name it. So it's certainlynot something that we say that you
know, you cannot get addicted.There there are people who will say that
you cannot. But my belief anda quasi as well, is that there
(33:44):
are elements of addiction for anything,and cannabis included. What we don't have
is any research that shows addictive qualitiesof cannabis in the same way that you
know, even sugar and caffeine aresometimes shown to be more addict to.
However, I'm a firm believer thateverything needs to be in moderation no matter
(34:05):
what it is, because the addictionis pretty widespread. And you know,
I think we just assume that it'ssomething like heroin or cocaine or something along
those lines, but it's not andtoo much of anything can be challenging for
you, so certainly not coming froma position that cannabis should be consumed all
day, every day in lieu ofanything else. I know that with alcohol
(34:31):
it runs in the genes, andI'm wondering if there's any evidence and if
anything was studied in Israel or Spain, because they're leading pioneers in the studies
of a family gene that could possiblytie over when it comes to the world
(34:52):
of cannabis. You know, wehaven't seen that much research around it,
even out of but I think thatthese are all coming because now that we
have more availability, even for thetesting element of it, to be able
to do the studies to see ifthere is any passage from one family member
(35:15):
to the next. I mean,the reality is that the research element is
still pretty new. You know.Israel is really the leader on that front.
We've been other countries have been tryingto do more, but hands are
tied to some degree because of thelegality elements and which are actually able to
access or not. So we don'thave any research that I have seen yet
(35:38):
that shows us that. But Ido firmly believe that it's something that is
needed and I do think it willcome over time. We also just don't
have enough of a population base reallyto show that just yet. You know,
some people still won't admit about theirconsumption, and so we're still working
on the stigma element of being ableto share that this is something that people
(36:00):
are using regularly in their lives.You write about real people in your book
who have really made an impact onyou, can you just share We don't
have a whole lot of time,but a quick story or two. Yeah,
so one happy to share about MichaelThompson, who was serving a ridiculous
(36:25):
amount of time in prison, andyou know, he was had a whole
life ahead of him and then waspicked up for a cannabis transaction in Michigan
and then ended up disturbing several decadesin prison. And really his cannabis crime
(36:47):
led to police using buns as away to get more time for Michael in
prison. And he's someone that hisstory is heartbreaking. You know, his
mother died while he was in prison. He missed, he missed decades of
his children's life. And he wasreleased a few years ago because nobody should
(37:08):
be I mean, Michigan is legal. So what he went to jail four
doesn't even exist anymore. But hewas in there for decades and decades,
and now you know, he's inhis sixties and trying to restart life and
just hearing what led to that happening, and how he's trying to get back
on his feet and also advocate forothers who were in a position like he
(37:30):
was, because now he's on theside and he is seeing what is happening.
You know that that transition to lifeoutside of prison is not easy,
and so wanting to help the servingtime for things that happened to him and
as well as those who are comingout. Another woman is Evelyn Musha Palace.
She was in prison for assisting intrafficking. You know, she had
(37:52):
a young daughter and was able toget out of prison, but it was
devastating, you know, the timethat she was in there, her ability
to get jobs. Now she waswell educated, had a whole life ahead
of her and now is working inthe cannabis industry, has her own brand.
She's in part of the Last PrisonerProject, and just being able to
(38:14):
hear from people who are actual constituentnice. Yes, yes, yes,
this has been such a treat havingyou with us today to hear really,
it's just amazing to hear our tula. The book is available MIT Press and
it is such an important book waitingto inhale and real quickly. The best
(38:42):
way people can get the book Amazonwherever books are sold. Yeah, you
can get an Amazon, Barnton,Noble, Penguin, Random House. All
three of those locations on those websiteshost the book. Wonderful. Thank you
so much for being with us today. Thank you and thank you all.
(39:02):
This has been another edition of CannabisTalk, a tousey and educational odyssey with
Frankie Boyer. Thanks for listening.Make it a great day everybody, and
as always, smile. What's somebody
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