April 3, 2025 • 46 mins
On this week's Harness Racing Alumni Show, our expert panel includes international owner and breeder Gordon Banks, harness racing New Zealand's CEO, Brad Steele and post time coordinator and mutuel expert, Michael Antoniades. The panel discusses some of the promotions that they are successfully following in New Zealand and how they could be adopted here in the U.S. and in the upcoming World Harness Racing Conference. Our guests also chat about how tariffs could affect the import and export of our racehorses. Plus, Andy Cohen’s special report. All on this week's broadcast.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to this week's Harness Racing Alumni Show. I'm Freddie
Hudson and I'm here today with Trade Martin, Bob Marks
and Andy Cohen.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
The Harness Racing Alumni Show with your host Freddy Hudson
and Trade Martin.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Joining us on this week's show with our special panel
led by Gordon Banks, we have Brad Steel from New
Zealand and Michael Antonati is from Oak Grove.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Gordon over to you.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Thanks Freddy. We have a really special guy at this time.
Brad Steele was kind enough to give me quite a
bit of time in New Zealand and I've gotten to
know him fairly well over the years. He's recently been
put in charge as the CEO of Harness Racing New
Zealand in a rebuilding stage. He previously had been responsible
(00:51):
for building up Queensland Harness Racing, where he did a
tremendous job and most of the new innovative ideas that
you see there were actually born under his control. And
now he's trying to build up New Zealand, which has
a unique opportunity because greyhound racing has been banned now
in New Zealand, they have a real need for product,
(01:15):
and they have some of the same problems that we've
had in terms of diminishing phone numbers, and it's rather
a similar situation, except that it's very promising in New
Zealand because Ntine, which is the Australian arm of Ladbrook,
came in about a year and a half ago and
completed a five year funding deal with New Zealand under
(01:38):
which they took over fifty percent of the tap and Brad.
If I'm wrong in the English details, please correct me,
but I believe that that's what's happened, and Brad was
put into to try to make certain that the product
would be there to report Entaine and return New Zealand
to where it once was. So if that introduction, Brad
(02:00):
welcome and we could start it anywhere. But I really
was thought i'd mentioned it. The historic was something that
I mentioned in Passing in a previous show, which is
the betting technology and options that you have down under
that we don't have with respect of fixed odds, multi
(02:21):
bats and as you described from your earlier in rece batting.
So I thought that would be an interesting area to
start in.
Speaker 5 (02:29):
Yeah, yes, that and look great to be part of
your program. I don't thank you for the invitation. And
you're in New Zealand, we're we're really fortunate to have
a wagering partner like in Tain who's brought a lot
of innovation to the putters in New zealm. We've got
a number of different different bets and I guess typically
when you look at Australasian betting, the two biggest, the
(02:53):
biggest pools are fixed odds and you're paramutual. And in
Australia it's probably ninety percent waged on fixed dods, ten
percent on paramutual. Here in New Zealand is slightly different
at around about sixty percent fixed forty percent paramutual.
Speaker 6 (03:08):
But those fixed odds.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
Market share is rapidly increasing quite significantly, so we have
the ability to certainly bet on on fixed odds. But
one of the other or two of the other innovations
that Intain have brought to putters in us on is
a same race multi which is basically like having a
trifector I guess in your in your teminology, but with
(03:31):
a fixed odd attached to it. So these days, if
you put a trifector on the actual end state is
not really predetermined.
Speaker 6 (03:38):
But with this particular bet. You know exactly that if you.
Speaker 5 (03:40):
Get the same race multi, which is essentially a trifector,
it's a fixed odd But you let.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
Me right right, let me interw up one second, because
I think what you're calling a tri factor is not
what we think of as a trifactor. Are you describing
where you would pick winners and three multiple races for example?
Speaker 5 (04:02):
So try yes, So a trifector is just one race
and you pick first, second, and third.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Okay, now you are using the same them Laji. Okay,
I wasn't sure. Okay, no prob.
Speaker 6 (04:12):
Yeah, well that's okay.
Speaker 5 (04:13):
Yeah, look and I'm I'll probably stuff up a few
terminologies were were a little bit differently. But a trifector
is the ability to pick their second and third. So
with the same race multi, it's basically a trifector. Be
but you get six odds, so you know exactly how
much you're going to win if you're able to serve
those three horses to run those three places. In addition
(04:34):
to that, we also have a race to race multi
where you could pick four or five six horses to
either win or run a place and know exactly how
much you're going to win if all of those horses
either win or run a place as you've as you've bet.
So what it does is it significantly increases the prize
pool for a punter. And that's what's really attracting him
(04:56):
and Gordon you touched on earlier is the ability for
pundits the bet during the run. So you know, certainly
punders in Australasia now through enchain or through lad breaks
have the ability to get on and have a halfway
through a race for example. So you've got the ability
if you've got a horse that's leading and you think
it's probably the one to beat, you can go and
(05:17):
put a bet on. Obviously, the close to the race
is to finishing the less of the odds becoming at
some stays they stopped waging from being able to be
to be plased.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Yeah, that's all completely different from what we have here.
And I think when I think recently, I was watching
the recent one day and I think somebody got a
very small amount of money and another multi came back
with two hundred thousand dollars in New Zealand. Yeah, that's right,
you can have.
Speaker 6 (05:50):
Exactly right.
Speaker 5 (05:51):
And I think that was a race of race multi
where a number of combinations came home and that punder
I think they invested one hundred dollars and collected over
two hundred thous So that's the power and the interest
that punters have in these race to race multis al
saying race multi where basically you're you're better to win
(06:11):
a larger amount of money than what you traditionally would
under the normal sort.
Speaker 6 (06:15):
Of cribeteria trifector wagering.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
Yeah, which is rare. Ways to try it.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Now, Red cred here do they still have bookies at
the track in New Zealand?
Speaker 5 (06:28):
No, bookmakers haven't met on track in New Zealand for
for many many years. That's probably more so in Australia
than those even though the number of bookmakers on track
have diminished. And obviously the appeal to betting with a
bookmaker on course is it's all fixed out, which is
basically what the corporates can now provide you through an
(06:49):
online online service. But we have no on course bookmakers
in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Okay, thank you.
Speaker 7 (06:58):
Michael here, welcome Brad. Can I ask you what are
the odds if you're betting the wind through the pera
mutual New Zealand? And also what are the takeout not
the odds? What is the takeout on the pair of
mutual and what is the takeout on the fixed dogs.
Speaker 5 (07:19):
It's something that they haven't actually provide us with that
information just yet, Michael, to be perfully on the site,
I think that inform of onany be the role for
for eight months, so.
Speaker 6 (07:30):
I'm not pretty today information just to this day.
Speaker 5 (07:32):
So probably something I'm have to take on notice and
certainly feedback fayback to you.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
It's a good question, okay, sir, Oh God, go ahead, Michael.
I mean there's there's nobody Brad that's a bigger expert
on by mutual wagering in the States on harness for
hams over race and then then Michael, so uh, you know,
ask away Michael.
Speaker 7 (07:56):
Well, the reason I ask is you can betty shifts
through the fixed odds weren't exchanges. Is that the pera
mutual system as far as when a odds on horse wins,
is completely flawed. So to give you an example, if
(08:18):
you have seventeen percent, which in the United States is
pretty standard when on some are less, some are more.
But let's take seventeen percent for an example. If you
have an even money before takeout. In other words, let's
say half the money is bet on one horse and
he wins, so he should pay four dollars before takeout.
(08:40):
So if you take seventeen percent, that's fifty one cents.
So now you knocked down four dollars to three dollars
and forty nine cents, and then breakage at most tracks
knocks it down to a three forty. I think my
math is right, So you're supposed to one hundred dollars
(09:00):
back and you end up getting no one Here my
math was wrong. Seventeen percent of four dollars is sixty
eight cents, so it knocks it down to three thirty two,
and break it brings it down to three twenty. So
you're supposed to get one hundred dollars back if you
(09:22):
bet one hundred dollars bet, but what you end up
getting back is one sixty or sixty dollars profit instead
of one hundred. So realistically that's a forty percent takeout.
Now why is that Yeah, because you're taking seventy percent
out of by one hundred dollars bet also, so that's flawed,
and that's been flawed for one hundred years now.
Speaker 6 (09:44):
The betting has changed.
Speaker 7 (09:45):
If Gordon and I make a bet and he bets
the horse, and I lay the horse and Gordon wins,
he gets back two hundred of which he only has
to pay seventeen percent of the one hundred dollars he won,
So that's seventeen cents four dollars knocks it down at
the three eighty three. And now you see why the
(10:06):
betting exchange when it was operating at Betfair is so
enormous because the lay is between three twenty and three
eighty three, so there's lots of room for both sides
to converge there. And that's why the fixed odds, especially
the more favorite you have, is getting an extraordinary uptick,
(10:30):
and the paramutual, because it's a flawed system, constantly goes down.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Well, why have we been unable to get fixed odds
in the States.
Speaker 6 (10:39):
Michael.
Speaker 7 (10:42):
Well, Betfair tried it. Betfair actually owned TVG. It's now fluttered,
but they tried it with a twelve percent takeout. Now
in Europe in Betfair, which was basically sports but billions
of dollars. Morse Racing also had a takeout between two
(11:06):
and five percent on your commissions, depending what your volume
it was through bet there. Now, when the mental Lance
tried it, they tried it at twelve percent. I think
they tried it Monnf also and it's a little high.
But even at ten percent, Gordon and Brad, Bob and
Freddy that you can knock down at ten percent, that
(11:29):
goes from four dollars to three sixty. So you can
imagine if your betters that were betting that, of course,
that were getting three twenty were getting three sixty and said,
there'd be a lot of enthusiasm, and of course a
gigantic range on a betting exchange between three twenty and
three sixty for the late and the take. So all
(11:50):
the efficiency is on the pickthids and the paramutual is
just an archaic system and trying to explain to somebody
and they don't really grasp it because the majority of
people that work in our industry don't have a lot
a big gambling acumen to understand that.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
So I think a lot of it.
Speaker 7 (12:18):
Like Gulfstream, I'll be done in fifteen seconds. But even
Gulf Stream, you see these odds go from even money
to two to five with two hundred thousand dollars wind pools,
And yes there's a lot of late action. There's a
lot of comput computer assisted wagering causing.
Speaker 6 (12:34):
That to happen.
Speaker 7 (12:35):
But the main reason it happens because the paramutual system
is flawed.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
Yeah, and I think the average I mean, for me,
if I were betting fixed obs, it's just a common
sense reaction to the fact that I know what i'm
I know what I'm going to get, and I like that.
If I think the horses were five to one and
I can get five to one, I'll take five to one.
But in the permutual system, you don't know what you're
going to get, especially Nowaday is as you said, in
the States, because we had a horse the other day
(13:03):
go off as the race started. It was ten seconds
after the race started. The horse was even money. When
the race was over, the horse went off of one
to five. And that's killing Babe. That's killing Betty. And
you can't bet you fixed odds. You know what you're
going to get. And personally I love that, But I
(13:23):
don't want to waste Brad's time because I think the
waging parts really interesting for us. But I think for
Brad perhaps will be interesting to hear of his perspective
of what the problems are in New Zealand and what
he thinks for the right solutions for them because irrelevant
to our problems and perhaps our solutions as well here.
Speaker 5 (13:47):
Here yeah sure, yeah, so gentlemen. And look now, I
guess the opportunities that are still here in New Zealand
is we actually have an outstanding rising product. Need to
tell more people about, you know, how good our racing
product is. So fundamentally there's nothing actually wrong with our product.
(14:07):
It's how we're not promading it. The opportunity to provide
better en course experiences for people when they come to
the races. And the way I describe it is, this
is the proposition that you know, harms ration typically it's
probably internationally provides en course patrons with today. Now generally speaking,
a race card will run for about four hours, and
(14:29):
let's say, for example, there's horses out on a track
and there's a race on. So let's say there's four
or five minutes of real entertainment where people can actually
see a horse racing or warming up. So over ten
races there's fifty minutes of real entertainment spread.
Speaker 6 (14:46):
Out for four hours.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
So if somebody said to us, you know, want you
to come and enjoy a day at.
Speaker 6 (14:52):
The tennis or a day at the football.
Speaker 5 (14:54):
You're going to sit in the stadium for four hours,
but you're only going to see fifty minutes of tennis
or football. It's not a great proposition, but that's the
proposition that we're putting out there today to people who
generally aren't died in the wall punters. So we do
need to provide a better experience for encourse patrons to
get them to the track, but to also keep them
(15:14):
and to keep them coming back. So we're working through
with our clubs on how we can do that. We've
got a book mix of clubs that attract extraordinary crowds
and we've got others that aren't quite there at this stage.
The other opportunity for New Zealand is our breeding. It's
been in decline for for three decades. At one stage
(15:37):
we're breeding over eight thousand folds and it's now down
to around that fifteen hundred marks. So that's our opportunity
to turn that around. I think we're very close to
the bottom and getting that turned around, and we're just
thinking through what is it going to take to get
people to breed more and One of the opportunities we
(15:58):
see is through breeding syndicates, syndicates that breed horses to race,
not to sell, and also to attract.
Speaker 6 (16:05):
A different audience.
Speaker 5 (16:06):
We think there's a huge opportunity to get what we
call the next gen breeders, those people that are typically
under forty to get into our industry, and that's a
segment here in New Zealand that's pretty much missing at
the moment. Our ownership is very much skeared to being
over sixty and that also applies to our breeders. So
(16:27):
the gap is getting more younger people involved in our
industry from a breeding perspective but also an ownership and
we've recently introduced some innovation to encourage more younger people
to participate in our game. So for us, they're the
opportunities that we've got in front of us, and we've
thought through how we can how we can improve that.
(16:50):
But I think the other thing generally, I think, you know,
certainly we're thinking through here in New Zealand, is we
really do need to modernize our sport. When I look
at harness racing around the world, we've all been much
doing the same thing for a long time and We've
got a well Trodding conference coming up next year where
I'd like to challenge the delegates that turn up to
help us have a conversation around what does modern harness
(17:12):
racing look like around the world. And to give you
one example of what we're doing, I'm playing for thirty
five industry people to be trained in artificial intelligence at
the lame at a black belt accreditation in artificial intelligence
and it's going to play a significant role in harness racing.
And we're working through what that role artificial intelligence is
(17:34):
going to play in hardness racing moving forward, and we've
only just started that work that The opportunities are incredible
and exciting, so they're probably just a few things that
I think we're focused on where the opportunities are, where
our challenges are, and we've got some good plans in place,
so I think we'll get us there.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Me Brad, Fred here, where is that conference going to
take place? And do you have a deed on it?
Speaker 5 (18:01):
Don't have a date just yet, Fred, but it'll be
one of two places. The two major cities in New
Zealand Auckland which is in the North Island, and christ
Church was in the South Island. So it's generally going
to be one of those two, potentially leading to Auckland,
but it could be christ Church. And my guess is Freddie,
(18:21):
is it will probably be late in the year, probably
around November. We have a very large harness race here
in New Zealand called the New Zealand Cup, and we
attract a huge wagering audience and a huge on track audience,
and we thought it might be good to build that
into the conference as well, so that all those international
people get to see what the very best in harness
(18:44):
racing zone looks like.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
Time for North American people, because that's in November's right
after Harrisburg. I remember going to the New Zealand Cup
the week after Harrisburg years ago, and it's an incredibly
fun event and it would be a greek for everybody
to go there, easy for Americas.
Speaker 7 (19:05):
Yes, Michael, I have a question. So the Melbourne Cup
is a pretty prestigious race and we get it offered
the Melbourne Cup in the United States it runs around
a love in the clock Eastern Could you do anything
like that with your race?
Speaker 6 (19:25):
Yeah, look, it's a good question, Michael. We did actually
think about that last year.
Speaker 5 (19:29):
But I guess to be honest, we were molso looking
at it from an.
Speaker 6 (19:33):
Australian audience perspective.
Speaker 5 (19:35):
So Australia typically is three hours behind New Zealand time.
So our New Zealand Cup is typically held on the
second Tuesday of November, and generally speaking it's run at
about five o'clock New Zealand time, which is about two
o'clock Australian time. So I'm not quite sure you know
what top train that would see that race in America,
(19:59):
but it could be something we could certainly think about
as we continue to carry out our international audience.
Speaker 7 (20:07):
Thank you, sir.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
Yeah, the time, the time difference is an issue of me,
and we talked about that just for a second when
we were together in New Zealand, about if you could
have perhaps certain of race meetings designed for the US
market that would start very early in the morning and
in cases where it wouldn't be aimed at Australia, that's
probably much more feasible.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Yes, yes, hey, hey, I have a question for you, Brad.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
What do you think about the tariffs that will be
in effect now on bringing horses in from New Zealand
and Australia to the US. Do you think that's going
to have any effect or do we know anything about
what the tariffs are going to be.
Speaker 5 (20:49):
Now, I don't, Freddy, I'm study nothing that I'm aware
of specifically, all would be surprised if a tariff is
placed on it, fortunately or unfortunately, depending on the way
it is. We do obviously export a number of horses
to America, but our largest export market is Australia by
by a long way, and then China to a lesser extent.
(21:12):
So if the tariff was brought in, I don't think
it will have a material material impact, And I certainly
know from you know, harness racing New Zealand's perspectively, obviously
wouldn't wouldn't be looking to return fire with our own
own set of tariffs.
Speaker 6 (21:28):
You know.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
Actually the way that people are afraid of being applied
would probably have an impact, Brad, because there, I mean,
the fear would be that you buy a horse down
Under for one hundred thousand dollars and when it lands
in the States and goes to customs, the buyer could
be charged for twenty five percent tariff on that. If
(21:50):
that happened, I mean that happened, If that happened that
would have an impact. That's a big amount.
Speaker 5 (21:56):
We would have an impact on the on the buyer.
Gordon in americasolutely, I guess look, it's it's both, you know,
a threat and an opportunity. So obviously, you know, one
of the challenges that we've got here in New Zealand
is because our product, our racing product, is so good,
we export you know, probably about thirty percent of the
(22:17):
horses that we breed, typically to Australia. So if that
export market slowed down, that would mean that we would
actually have more horses staying in New Zealand and racing,
which is directly into field sizes, which feels directly into
to the waging. We know that the bigger the field
size here in New Zealand, the more people wager wager
on it. So whilst it would be a negative certainty
(22:38):
for the end user in the States, it actually would
be a positive to a certain extent here in New Zealand,
but obviously be the negative New Zelm would be that
that owner obviously wouldn't get to pocket you know, a
nice sum of money through the sale of that.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
Sure, but your problems are so similar, especially you're the
the environment in New Zealand I found amazing where there's
such a culture of horse racing. People really love it,
and it's very kin in America to what you see
in Ohio and perhaps Kentucky. The rest of America is
a little bit less that way, but you have a
(23:14):
real good chance because of that that really enthusiasm for
racing there.
Speaker 6 (23:20):
We certainly do Gordon.
Speaker 5 (23:22):
And look when I've been in New Zealand for for
eight months here and one of the things that's been
driven into me by the Kiwis is that, you know,
the DNA of New Zealand is built around three things, beer, rugby,
union and racing. It's actually it's actually in their DNA,
and it's a pretty good place, you know, to start from.
And you know we do attract, you know, reasonably good
(23:44):
crowds by comparison. It's been probably two decades since I
was in the Meadowlands, but I've been to a lot
of race meetings in and around Australasia. I have to
say that the patronage the New Zealand racing is far
greater and where I see elsewhere, and I think part
of it is built on that DNA. But it's also
(24:04):
the fact that I do know the clubs do look
after the owners. Each of the clubs have an owner's
room where they provide hospitality, and I know the owners
look to be involved in that anytime they're horse races,
So I do tend to see a lot more owners
tending race menis in New Zealand what I've observed elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Could you explain the club system?
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Of course, we don't have a club station here in
the US, so for our audience.
Speaker 5 (24:34):
Each we have thirty nine clubs here in New Zealand.
They're all an incorporated society. They all operate under their
own own rules and regulations, but they will have to
comply with the New Zealand Racing rules and regulations. It's
sort of like a dotted line accountability through to Harness
Racing New Zealand.
Speaker 6 (24:55):
But they each operate their.
Speaker 5 (24:57):
Own individual business, but they are support ord by Harness
Racing New Zealand. We provide them with funding to help
them put on the race meetings, but it's also up
to the clubs then to generate additional revenue to make
sure that they can trail at a profitable level. So
each club is its own own business with an own
(25:19):
set of directors but certainly Harness Racing New zeal is
a controlling body over those thirty thirty nine clubs. Typically,
our clubs are made up of volunteers. Just two of
our of our clubs there are two Metropolitan clubs have
paid board members. The rest of our clubs committees or
(25:41):
boards are all in a voluntary capacity to do.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
The clubs compete against each other.
Speaker 5 (25:50):
Yeah, look, there's definitely pretty They're very competitive, There's no
doubt about that because generally speaking, they want more race meetings,
they want more prize money, they want more people on
the track, and they guard their results very strongly. So
they're incredibly protective, which can be interesting, but at the
(26:14):
same time it's a positive. You know, they're very passionate
about how they present their race courses and how passionate
they are about making sure that regardless of what age
you are, there's something that will appeal to you on
that track.
Speaker 6 (26:28):
And what I.
Speaker 5 (26:30):
Find is some of our race clubs that maybe only
race once or twice a year, have an incredibly passionate,
engaging board. They know they only get one or two
chances a year to attract a great audience and to
make some money. So typically I went to a race
meeting in the right down the deep south of New
Zealand a few months ago, and it's in a small
(26:51):
township and the townships we've got about three hundred people.
And when I went there, they said they will get
eight thousand people to that race, minting to one race
day year, and I must admit.
Speaker 6 (27:03):
I was a bit skeptical, but they did.
Speaker 5 (27:04):
They got over eight thousand people to a race meeting,
which is probably a bit like a fair type race
meeting in America, but generally eight thousand people, lots of
young people, all age demographics, lots of fun activations the
whole day. And it was just an incredible site that
a township of two or three hundred people could.
Speaker 6 (27:26):
Draw in eight thousand people from all over New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
How much did they wager total in that?
Speaker 5 (27:33):
Yeah, look that it was actually very strong goodant, so
well I think it was strong. So it was one
point five million was waging on that on that meeting
across Amaze across New Zealand. So one point five million.
They race one day a year, and one year is
probably about right for them. But they did an incredible job.
(27:54):
There's lots of work that goes into it, they're incredibly
passionate and they get the results.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
And how much is how much?
Speaker 6 (28:01):
Incredible time.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
I was wondering how much is typically bet on the
New Zealand Cup.
Speaker 5 (28:09):
New Zealand Cup last year seven point four million. That's
on the New Zealand Cup meeting. On the rice itself,
I have a two point four million, So it's the biggest.
Speaker 6 (28:20):
Why jud rice single rice in New Zealand.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
So however, in the thoroughbreds, that New Zealand Cup is
the largest single wyged rice in New Zealand.
Speaker 6 (28:30):
Hyar.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
You touched on something before when you talked about the syndications,
and it's interesting because you're trying to connect the thoroughbred industry,
where in America is a big effort to sort of
divide on a some thoroughbred. But what you are trying
to utilize is the thoroughbred concept of syndication, as you
(28:52):
mentioned earlier, and that's not something syndications that existed in
the States are are different, they're not. They're not in
any way using the thoroughbred people let alone. I mean,
the stable is the closest, but we don't have a
tie in with the thoroughbud you're trying to get some
(29:13):
of the type syndicators for the thoroughbreds to set up
finer syndicates, and that's something that maybe we could be
trying to do here too.
Speaker 5 (29:22):
Yeah, absolutely good, and I think that's a huge opportunity here.
Speaker 6 (29:26):
In New Zealand.
Speaker 5 (29:27):
We've got quite a large number of successful thoroughbred syndication
companies and we're working with them to provide them with
a compelling proposition as to why they should actually stretch
out and get into harness racing syndication. And for us,
what's going to important is for New Zealand to rapidly
increase our ownership base in harness racing, and the one
(29:51):
way to do that is to work with the thoroughbred
syndication companies. They have the potter base, they already have
a very large target base, they already have syndica.
Speaker 6 (30:00):
It's that understand racing.
Speaker 5 (30:03):
But there's also an affordability challenge with thoroughbreds as well,
and I suspect that there's probably some people that are
falling out the bottom of those thoroughbred syndications due to affordability,
and I'd like them to fall straight into a harness.
Speaker 6 (30:14):
Racing syndication which has lower cost. And yes, I.
Speaker 5 (30:19):
Understand there's an economy of scale from prize money, but
I think there's a great opportunity to work with the
thoroughbred syndication companies in New Zealand. At the end of
the day, it's one equine and at this stage, I'd
be very surprised if we didn't have our first thoroughbred
syndication company stretching out into harness racing at next year's
yielding sales.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
Yeah, I think it's a great idea. I'm trying here.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Absolutely, Michael, do you want to wed you're in on that.
Speaker 7 (30:51):
I think all the things I hear are very good.
I'm a little unfamiliar with the exchange rate, but I
just up and those are some pretty decent numbers, So
I think you're going in the right direction from what
I hear.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
Well, I can tell you Brad did a hell of
a job in Queensland because over the last five or
six years what became the pre eminent jurisdiction in Australia
was Queensland sort of out of nowhere, and it's going
to culminate this year in a tremendous eating in July
where they have the Interdominion, they have, the Blacks of
(31:31):
Faith they have. I guess Brad would know the total
amount that they have. At least five or six really
major races for significate money it'll be going on at
that time.
Speaker 6 (31:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (31:43):
I think Gordon through through the win accountable in Queensland
this year, which includes the Dominion.
Speaker 6 (31:50):
I think there's between.
Speaker 5 (31:52):
Seven and nine million dollars in prize money that will
be distributed over a four week a four week period
in that time in Queensland. Australia in their winter time
is in an unchallenged area because it is the winter time.
Most people don't like to race horses in winter time.
(32:13):
But winter in Brisbane is like twenty five degrees. I'm
not quite sure that Celsius in America, but it's it's
quite pleasant and so play Florida exactly. Yes, so very
very similar to Florida, but without the alligators. So yeah,
(32:33):
nobody wants to compete with a major carnival in July
in Australasia. That's New Zealand and Australia and Queensland canon
have because of their incredible winter and the fact that
there's no feature racing in and around that time.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
It's become the major destination of other carnivals. But do
you have a great I'm only bringing this up these
Americans don't really understand that there's how much money you
can resource down under it and I shouldn't say it
because we redown it and I'm a looking to create
new competition. But even in New Zealand, in I think
it's what April and April and May between the North
(33:09):
Island and South Island. I imagine that you race for
three to four million.
Speaker 6 (33:16):
Yeah, that would be a pretty good number.
Speaker 5 (33:18):
Gordon, and we've got this coming Friday in the North
Island at a racetrack called Cambridge. We've got two large
slot races. We've got a trot slot race which is
for six hundred thousand, and we've got a pacing slot
race for a million dollars. So we've got the best
trotters and the best paces in Australasia competing here in
(33:40):
New Zealand Friday night.
Speaker 6 (33:42):
I hope you might be.
Speaker 5 (33:43):
Able to view it live in the States, but we've
got the very best horses racing in Australasia here in
New Zealand at this moment. We also have other slot
races for a half million dollars. Our New Zealand Cup
is worth a million dollars. We've got a major trot
race that is on the same time as our New
Zealand Cup worth half a million dollars. So we've just
(34:06):
recently in the last six months increased our stakes by
a record amount. So we've invested ten million dollars per
annum for the next three years in increased stakes here
in New Zealand off the back of some good support
that we're that we're getting from Mantain and I suspect
that over the next three to four months there's there's more,
(34:27):
there's more good news coming.
Speaker 6 (34:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
I think New Zealand is the is the standout place
in the world for highness racing right now in terms
of a positive future and a positive outlook. And it's
it's nice to see because everything's doom and gloom in
the States. So the here a vision that's likely to
be successful a nice thing for all of us to hear.
Speaker 5 (34:49):
Yeah, thank you good And I think certainly I know
we've got we've got probably seven or eight American brood
mares that have come to New Zealand in the last
probab twelve months that are either currently and still owned
by an American stud or New Zealand investors have bought
those breed mere So what I can see over the
(35:11):
next couple of years is the uniqueness to the new
different pedigrees is really starting to starting to involve or
have a lot more American blood coming throughout our pedigrees,
which you know, I'm hoping there's an opportunity to get more.
Speaker 6 (35:25):
Americans to come down.
Speaker 5 (35:26):
To our healing sales and look at these horses and
perhaps invest leave their horses here, race them, and at
some stage if they wanted to send them back to America.
Speaker 6 (35:36):
So I do see an evolving in.
Speaker 5 (35:38):
Future market there between North America and New Zealand through
through our healing sales, and those pedigrees will start to
appear in our sale catalogs from next year.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
Yeah, it's difficult that what would be interesting would be
if you could create a New Zealand at the right
time of the year, a big race that would be
interesting for American owners to send their horses down for
they would have to complement our schedule, not be disruptive
of that or endangering a horse. But the difficulty, I mean,
(36:11):
we looked at sending horses down there a few times
from here, and the difficulty has always been the quarantine.
I think you have a three month or three week
or four week quarantine down there that this makes everything
very difficult. But if you could bring American racehorses over
for some special event, that would certainly make owners much
more likely to go down under or be it the
earing sales or invest down there.
Speaker 6 (36:34):
Yeah, look good, don't think you.
Speaker 5 (36:35):
I think there's you know, when I look around internationally
today in Honness Rising, it appears to me everybody we're
sort of everyone's upriting in a solid advices at the moment,
and there's no one really connecting Hanness Rising around the world.
Speaker 6 (36:49):
And I'm hyping that there will.
Speaker 5 (36:50):
Trarding conference in twenty twenty six, we'll start a price.
That's where we can start reconnecting inter nationally. Because the
one thing I know there's an opportunity out there is
most sports around the world these days have a World Cup. Yes,
we do have a driver's Harness Ration Driver's World Cup.
We actually don't have a racing World Cup. And I
(37:10):
guess to make it a truly World Cup, it's probably
going to have to be a trotting race. So I
think there's a solution out there somewhere one day that
we might be able to put together a World Cup
of Trotting.
Speaker 6 (37:22):
And I think it's probably not too far away.
Speaker 5 (37:27):
I think there are some opportunities there, and maybe it's
a conversation at the World Trotting Conference on what that
might look like, hopefully well put it.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
I've read here what about the Yankers International trot Could
that be included in here?
Speaker 6 (37:43):
Right in there? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (37:45):
Absolutely, Yeah, I think it's a million dollars that that
Yonker's race. And I've been to Yonkers many years ago,
a great night, had a great night there, So yeah,
I think, and this is the point I was making
for you. I think everyone is sort of working in
a linear fashion the moment. They're all doing their own thing,
and I guess that's partly because they're probably feeling as
they were in survival mode. We're not actually in thriving mode,
(38:08):
so probably everyone's sort of looking to protect their own
their own patch, but knowing's actually connecting harness racing globally
to seek out, well, where are the opportunities. And I
think if we're going to grow ourcade, we have to
think more global and less local, but I understand we
do need to solve locally at the same time.
Speaker 4 (38:28):
I can't argue with that. Any other questions trying to
strike you or Michael.
Speaker 7 (38:35):
Yeah, I'd like I'd like to say that we need
a race well in North America. I think the last
prestigious race of the year is probably the TVG in
the final four, and then we really don't have anything
happening until the Leabe slash Board gott of Lake Barge
or early April. So anything that could be done between
that time we need, like blood because we need to
(38:58):
start creating interest earlier this there will be a vehicle
to do that.
Speaker 4 (39:03):
Yeah, and you know, Michael, the two probably that almost
definitely the two best facing horses in the world are
down Under and they'll be in that race next week
in Cambridge. But the two Australian champions are I would
say better than any horses we have in North America.
And I wouldn't even be surprised if the third and
(39:25):
fourth best or as good as anything we have here.
So it's I mean, we should go back at some
point to some races in America. I don't know if
you remember when Adeld Vivier, the French trotting champion, came
over a long time ago to the meadowlands and they
created a lot of publicity and a lot of interest.
But he had a lot of personality of that horse,
so he was a special horse. But certainly there should
(39:48):
be some race over year that is international in the States.
If they can organize New Zealand in a way that
people can do it should be there too, or perhaps
just rotate, but there should be an international race that
can read international pools and international visibility in international television
of a level of the thoroughbreds. We need that as
an industry, and there's that opportunity people would work together
(40:11):
and hopefully in that conference you'll have a chance to
trade the twist irons to do that.
Speaker 5 (40:19):
I actually really do think it's something that we need
to have a conversation around. Gordon and Michael, you've probably
got more experience than me around this, but it appears
to me that if we can create this truly global
harness racing event, there's a very good chance you could
probably get the World Pools interested in wagering.
Speaker 6 (40:37):
Now, the World Pools is.
Speaker 5 (40:38):
Owned by the Hong Kong Choppy Club a huge amount
of wagering, and I think if we could pull together
an international event like that, I think we could almost
convince the world pools to operate on that particular race,
which would probably provide the largest ever wagering pool on
(41:00):
a harness racing event.
Speaker 6 (41:02):
So I think the opportunities are there.
Speaker 5 (41:03):
We need to create it, we need to work together,
we need to work out how we could collaboratively and
collectively fund such an event. I think there is an
opportunity there, and we will take full advantage of the
Little Trophic Conference to start that conversation, because I think
it's something that really needs to really needs to be
done to get more of a focus on harness racing globally,
(41:25):
not just at the local levels. And I think that's
the part for me that's missing at the moment. That's
an opportunity that we can close.
Speaker 4 (41:33):
Yeah, Clay Horner couldn't make it today for this interview,
which is too bad because one of the major points
that he's been trying to push is the need for
not just a sort of harness racing network, but a
special collection of tracks that are big enough and have
a big enough handle that you can create a show
(41:55):
around those tracks and have quiper timing that you do
in New Zealand Australia, fewer races don't start on time.
They get switched to TB seven or something, and you
know there's a consequence to it. In America there's no consequence,
and it makes it hard for you to handle our
product because we don't live up to our start times.
But if you could come up with races between all
(42:18):
of us, as you said, opens up a door that
could be spectacular. And if you add that to the
wagering initiatives that are available now technologically and in other ways,
you know, harness racing could have a new era. But
there has to be a desire to do it and
an openness to do it. And certainly if you want
assistance or connections in the States and their ideas to discuss,
(42:43):
any of us would be happy to help. I know
Clay Horner would would be happy to help. Obviously, if
it speaks to the USTA. The problem is sad to
say that in the past the USTA hasn't been exactly
proactive or creative. But with the right with the right push,
maybe something that's happened there. But if not, maybe one
can work around them and get good things done. Won't
(43:05):
has to.
Speaker 6 (43:08):
Yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker 5 (43:09):
I think we can get the right if people can
approach us with an open mind and a positive attitude
and really think about what might be possible. I think
for me, that's the part that's probably missing internationally at
the moment is we're working too much in a linear,
linear fashion and not in a circular fashion, and we're
not just maximizing the great potential that HARNA Tracing has
(43:30):
around the world. And I think if we get us
all together, I'm sure we can come up with a
much better solution than we are currently working on at
local levels.
Speaker 6 (43:40):
So I'm going assure it.
Speaker 5 (43:41):
We will take full advantage of hosting the World Trying
Conference to make sure that the agenda is incredibly robust.
We're probably not overly interested in looking through a real
vision mirror as historical data.
Speaker 6 (43:54):
It's for us, it's all about the future.
Speaker 5 (43:56):
And I think, you know, we'll try and come up
with a really constructive program of work that's focused on
what people are doing that's working internationally, but more so,
how can we work together to create something more important
for harnistration around the world to get more eyeballs, more wagering,
and more participation, and I think once we do that,
I think that's where we can really start to take
some larger steps forward.
Speaker 4 (44:19):
Well, Brad, I'm going to need I'm going to I'm
going to need therapy after the show because I'm not
used to a positive show.
Speaker 6 (44:25):
I'm not used to.
Speaker 4 (44:26):
Common sense and creativity and positivity. So I imagine Fred's
about to say that this is all the time we
can have for the show, but I got to say
that I'm going to write from here to the therapist
because it's a good news I'm not used to handling.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
You're right, Gordon, I'm going to say we're going to
close the show out on a positive note tonight.
Speaker 4 (44:46):
Brad, thanks so much for giving us your insights.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
Brad, thank you so much for joining us. Michael to you,
thank you again for joining us. And Gordon, thank you
for hosting the show this week.
Speaker 4 (44:58):
Have pleasure.
Speaker 3 (45:00):
Okay, now over to Andy for this week's Keeping Pace updates.
Speaker 8 (45:05):
Thanks Freddie, Yeah for next week's Keeping Face Calm.
Speaker 4 (45:08):
I'm going to talk.
Speaker 9 (45:10):
A little bit about the concerns that some readers have
expressed to me about the USDA rules relating to Nick Surick,
and some of these other people who have been sanctioned
by the USDA.
Speaker 4 (45:22):
There's some frustration that the USDA doesn't give.
Speaker 8 (45:25):
Enough guidance to folks when they have to deal with
people who have been sanctioned.
Speaker 6 (45:31):
So I'm going to look a little bit closer into that.
Speaker 8 (45:33):
Also going to look a little bit into this concept
of definitions and the way that the federal racing regulators
define themselves as a private.
Speaker 4 (45:45):
Entity as opposed to a public entity.
Speaker 8 (45:47):
That's significant because of all the lawsuits going on. It's
also significant because of the way the Trump administration.
Speaker 4 (45:52):
Is dealing with federal agencies.
Speaker 8 (45:54):
So it will be a packed keeping pace next Monday.
Thanks Freddie, back to you.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
Thank you Andy.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
The Harness Racing Alumni Show is the number one harness
racing podcast in North America and has listened to worldwide
on multiple platforms including Speaker, iHeartRadio, us Trots, dot Com,
Harness Link, Google Podcasts, and many others. To our audience,
thanks for listening and please join us again next week.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
The Harness Racing Alumni Show
Welcome to this week's Harness Racing Alumni Show. I'm Freddie
Hudson and I'm here today with Trade Martin, Bob Marks
and Andy Cohen.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
The Harness Racing Alumni Show with your host Freddy Hudson
and Trade Martin.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Joining us on this week's show with our special panel
led by Gordon Banks, we have Brad Steel from New
Zealand and Michael Antonati is from Oak Grove.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Gordon over to you.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Thanks Freddy. We have a really special guy at this time.
Brad Steele was kind enough to give me quite a
bit of time in New Zealand and I've gotten to
know him fairly well over the years. He's recently been
put in charge as the CEO of Harness Racing New
Zealand in a rebuilding stage. He previously had been responsible
(00:51):
for building up Queensland Harness Racing, where he did a
tremendous job and most of the new innovative ideas that
you see there were actually born under his control. And
now he's trying to build up New Zealand, which has
a unique opportunity because greyhound racing has been banned now
in New Zealand, they have a real need for product,
(01:15):
and they have some of the same problems that we've
had in terms of diminishing phone numbers, and it's rather
a similar situation, except that it's very promising in New
Zealand because Ntine, which is the Australian arm of Ladbrook,
came in about a year and a half ago and
completed a five year funding deal with New Zealand under
(01:38):
which they took over fifty percent of the tap and Brad.
If I'm wrong in the English details, please correct me,
but I believe that that's what's happened, and Brad was
put into to try to make certain that the product
would be there to report Entaine and return New Zealand
to where it once was. So if that introduction, Brad
(02:00):
welcome and we could start it anywhere. But I really
was thought i'd mentioned it. The historic was something that
I mentioned in Passing in a previous show, which is
the betting technology and options that you have down under
that we don't have with respect of fixed odds, multi
(02:21):
bats and as you described from your earlier in rece batting.
So I thought that would be an interesting area to
start in.
Speaker 5 (02:29):
Yeah, yes, that and look great to be part of
your program. I don't thank you for the invitation. And
you're in New Zealand, we're we're really fortunate to have
a wagering partner like in Tain who's brought a lot
of innovation to the putters in New zealm. We've got
a number of different different bets and I guess typically
when you look at Australasian betting, the two biggest, the
(02:53):
biggest pools are fixed odds and you're paramutual. And in
Australia it's probably ninety percent waged on fixed dods, ten
percent on paramutual. Here in New Zealand is slightly different
at around about sixty percent fixed forty percent paramutual.
Speaker 6 (03:08):
But those fixed odds.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
Market share is rapidly increasing quite significantly, so we have
the ability to certainly bet on on fixed odds. But
one of the other or two of the other innovations
that Intain have brought to putters in us on is
a same race multi which is basically like having a
trifector I guess in your in your teminology, but with
(03:31):
a fixed odd attached to it. So these days, if
you put a trifector on the actual end state is
not really predetermined.
Speaker 6 (03:38):
But with this particular bet. You know exactly that if you.
Speaker 5 (03:40):
Get the same race multi, which is essentially a trifector,
it's a fixed odd But you let.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
Me right right, let me interw up one second, because
I think what you're calling a tri factor is not
what we think of as a trifactor. Are you describing
where you would pick winners and three multiple races for example?
Speaker 5 (04:02):
So try yes, So a trifector is just one race
and you pick first, second, and third.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Okay, now you are using the same them Laji. Okay,
I wasn't sure. Okay, no prob.
Speaker 6 (04:12):
Yeah, well that's okay.
Speaker 5 (04:13):
Yeah, look and I'm I'll probably stuff up a few
terminologies were were a little bit differently. But a trifector
is the ability to pick their second and third. So
with the same race multi, it's basically a trifector. Be
but you get six odds, so you know exactly how
much you're going to win if you're able to serve
those three horses to run those three places. In addition
(04:34):
to that, we also have a race to race multi
where you could pick four or five six horses to
either win or run a place and know exactly how
much you're going to win if all of those horses
either win or run a place as you've as you've bet.
So what it does is it significantly increases the prize
pool for a punter. And that's what's really attracting him
(04:56):
and Gordon you touched on earlier is the ability for
pundits the bet during the run. So you know, certainly
punders in Australasia now through enchain or through lad breaks
have the ability to get on and have a halfway
through a race for example. So you've got the ability
if you've got a horse that's leading and you think
it's probably the one to beat, you can go and
(05:17):
put a bet on. Obviously, the close to the race
is to finishing the less of the odds becoming at
some stays they stopped waging from being able to be
to be plased.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Yeah, that's all completely different from what we have here.
And I think when I think recently, I was watching
the recent one day and I think somebody got a
very small amount of money and another multi came back
with two hundred thousand dollars in New Zealand. Yeah, that's right,
you can have.
Speaker 6 (05:50):
Exactly right.
Speaker 5 (05:51):
And I think that was a race of race multi
where a number of combinations came home and that punder
I think they invested one hundred dollars and collected over
two hundred thous So that's the power and the interest
that punters have in these race to race multis al
saying race multi where basically you're you're better to win
(06:11):
a larger amount of money than what you traditionally would
under the normal sort.
Speaker 6 (06:15):
Of cribeteria trifector wagering.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
Yeah, which is rare. Ways to try it.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Now, Red cred here do they still have bookies at
the track in New Zealand?
Speaker 5 (06:28):
No, bookmakers haven't met on track in New Zealand for
for many many years. That's probably more so in Australia
than those even though the number of bookmakers on track
have diminished. And obviously the appeal to betting with a
bookmaker on course is it's all fixed out, which is
basically what the corporates can now provide you through an
(06:49):
online online service. But we have no on course bookmakers
in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Okay, thank you.
Speaker 7 (06:58):
Michael here, welcome Brad. Can I ask you what are
the odds if you're betting the wind through the pera
mutual New Zealand? And also what are the takeout not
the odds? What is the takeout on the pair of
mutual and what is the takeout on the fixed dogs.
Speaker 5 (07:19):
It's something that they haven't actually provide us with that
information just yet, Michael, to be perfully on the site,
I think that inform of onany be the role for
for eight months, so.
Speaker 6 (07:30):
I'm not pretty today information just to this day.
Speaker 5 (07:32):
So probably something I'm have to take on notice and
certainly feedback fayback to you.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
It's a good question, okay, sir, Oh God, go ahead, Michael.
I mean there's there's nobody Brad that's a bigger expert
on by mutual wagering in the States on harness for
hams over race and then then Michael, so uh, you know,
ask away Michael.
Speaker 7 (07:56):
Well, the reason I ask is you can betty shifts
through the fixed odds weren't exchanges. Is that the pera
mutual system as far as when a odds on horse wins,
is completely flawed. So to give you an example, if
(08:18):
you have seventeen percent, which in the United States is
pretty standard when on some are less, some are more.
But let's take seventeen percent for an example. If you
have an even money before takeout. In other words, let's
say half the money is bet on one horse and
he wins, so he should pay four dollars before takeout.
(08:40):
So if you take seventeen percent, that's fifty one cents.
So now you knocked down four dollars to three dollars
and forty nine cents, and then breakage at most tracks
knocks it down to a three forty. I think my
math is right, So you're supposed to one hundred dollars
(09:00):
back and you end up getting no one Here my
math was wrong. Seventeen percent of four dollars is sixty
eight cents, so it knocks it down to three thirty two,
and break it brings it down to three twenty. So
you're supposed to get one hundred dollars back if you
(09:22):
bet one hundred dollars bet, but what you end up
getting back is one sixty or sixty dollars profit instead
of one hundred. So realistically that's a forty percent takeout.
Now why is that Yeah, because you're taking seventy percent
out of by one hundred dollars bet also, so that's flawed,
and that's been flawed for one hundred years now.
Speaker 6 (09:44):
The betting has changed.
Speaker 7 (09:45):
If Gordon and I make a bet and he bets
the horse, and I lay the horse and Gordon wins,
he gets back two hundred of which he only has
to pay seventeen percent of the one hundred dollars he won,
So that's seventeen cents four dollars knocks it down at
the three eighty three. And now you see why the
(10:06):
betting exchange when it was operating at Betfair is so
enormous because the lay is between three twenty and three
eighty three, so there's lots of room for both sides
to converge there. And that's why the fixed odds, especially
the more favorite you have, is getting an extraordinary uptick,
(10:30):
and the paramutual, because it's a flawed system, constantly goes down.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Well, why have we been unable to get fixed odds
in the States.
Speaker 6 (10:39):
Michael.
Speaker 7 (10:42):
Well, Betfair tried it. Betfair actually owned TVG. It's now fluttered,
but they tried it with a twelve percent takeout. Now
in Europe in Betfair, which was basically sports but billions
of dollars. Morse Racing also had a takeout between two
(11:06):
and five percent on your commissions, depending what your volume
it was through bet there. Now, when the mental Lance
tried it, they tried it at twelve percent. I think
they tried it Monnf also and it's a little high.
But even at ten percent, Gordon and Brad, Bob and
Freddy that you can knock down at ten percent, that
(11:29):
goes from four dollars to three sixty. So you can
imagine if your betters that were betting that, of course,
that were getting three twenty were getting three sixty and said,
there'd be a lot of enthusiasm, and of course a
gigantic range on a betting exchange between three twenty and
three sixty for the late and the take. So all
(11:50):
the efficiency is on the pickthids and the paramutual is
just an archaic system and trying to explain to somebody
and they don't really grasp it because the majority of
people that work in our industry don't have a lot
a big gambling acumen to understand that.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
So I think a lot of it.
Speaker 7 (12:18):
Like Gulfstream, I'll be done in fifteen seconds. But even
Gulf Stream, you see these odds go from even money
to two to five with two hundred thousand dollars wind pools,
And yes there's a lot of late action. There's a
lot of comput computer assisted wagering causing.
Speaker 6 (12:34):
That to happen.
Speaker 7 (12:35):
But the main reason it happens because the paramutual system
is flawed.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
Yeah, and I think the average I mean, for me,
if I were betting fixed obs, it's just a common
sense reaction to the fact that I know what i'm
I know what I'm going to get, and I like that.
If I think the horses were five to one and
I can get five to one, I'll take five to one.
But in the permutual system, you don't know what you're
going to get, especially Nowaday is as you said, in
the States, because we had a horse the other day
(13:03):
go off as the race started. It was ten seconds
after the race started. The horse was even money. When
the race was over, the horse went off of one
to five. And that's killing Babe. That's killing Betty. And
you can't bet you fixed odds. You know what you're
going to get. And personally I love that, But I
(13:23):
don't want to waste Brad's time because I think the
waging parts really interesting for us. But I think for
Brad perhaps will be interesting to hear of his perspective
of what the problems are in New Zealand and what
he thinks for the right solutions for them because irrelevant
to our problems and perhaps our solutions as well here.
Speaker 5 (13:47):
Here yeah sure, yeah, so gentlemen. And look now, I
guess the opportunities that are still here in New Zealand
is we actually have an outstanding rising product. Need to
tell more people about, you know, how good our racing
product is. So fundamentally there's nothing actually wrong with our product.
(14:07):
It's how we're not promading it. The opportunity to provide
better en course experiences for people when they come to
the races. And the way I describe it is, this
is the proposition that you know, harms ration typically it's
probably internationally provides en course patrons with today. Now generally speaking,
a race card will run for about four hours, and
(14:29):
let's say, for example, there's horses out on a track
and there's a race on. So let's say there's four
or five minutes of real entertainment where people can actually
see a horse racing or warming up. So over ten
races there's fifty minutes of real entertainment spread.
Speaker 6 (14:46):
Out for four hours.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
So if somebody said to us, you know, want you
to come and enjoy a day at.
Speaker 6 (14:52):
The tennis or a day at the football.
Speaker 5 (14:54):
You're going to sit in the stadium for four hours,
but you're only going to see fifty minutes of tennis
or football. It's not a great proposition, but that's the
proposition that we're putting out there today to people who
generally aren't died in the wall punters. So we do
need to provide a better experience for encourse patrons to
get them to the track, but to also keep them
(15:14):
and to keep them coming back. So we're working through
with our clubs on how we can do that. We've
got a book mix of clubs that attract extraordinary crowds
and we've got others that aren't quite there at this stage.
The other opportunity for New Zealand is our breeding. It's
been in decline for for three decades. At one stage
(15:37):
we're breeding over eight thousand folds and it's now down
to around that fifteen hundred marks. So that's our opportunity
to turn that around. I think we're very close to
the bottom and getting that turned around, and we're just
thinking through what is it going to take to get
people to breed more and One of the opportunities we
(15:58):
see is through breeding syndicates, syndicates that breed horses to race,
not to sell, and also to attract.
Speaker 6 (16:05):
A different audience.
Speaker 5 (16:06):
We think there's a huge opportunity to get what we
call the next gen breeders, those people that are typically
under forty to get into our industry, and that's a
segment here in New Zealand that's pretty much missing at
the moment. Our ownership is very much skeared to being
over sixty and that also applies to our breeders. So
(16:27):
the gap is getting more younger people involved in our
industry from a breeding perspective but also an ownership and
we've recently introduced some innovation to encourage more younger people
to participate in our game. So for us, they're the
opportunities that we've got in front of us, and we've
thought through how we can how we can improve that.
(16:50):
But I think the other thing generally, I think, you know,
certainly we're thinking through here in New Zealand, is we
really do need to modernize our sport. When I look
at harness racing around the world, we've all been much
doing the same thing for a long time and We've
got a well Trodding conference coming up next year where
I'd like to challenge the delegates that turn up to
help us have a conversation around what does modern harness
(17:12):
racing look like around the world. And to give you
one example of what we're doing, I'm playing for thirty
five industry people to be trained in artificial intelligence at
the lame at a black belt accreditation in artificial intelligence
and it's going to play a significant role in harness racing.
And we're working through what that role artificial intelligence is
(17:34):
going to play in hardness racing moving forward, and we've
only just started that work that The opportunities are incredible
and exciting, so they're probably just a few things that
I think we're focused on where the opportunities are, where
our challenges are, and we've got some good plans in place,
so I think we'll get us there.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Me Brad, Fred here, where is that conference going to
take place? And do you have a deed on it?
Speaker 5 (18:01):
Don't have a date just yet, Fred, but it'll be
one of two places. The two major cities in New
Zealand Auckland which is in the North Island, and christ
Church was in the South Island. So it's generally going
to be one of those two, potentially leading to Auckland,
but it could be christ Church. And my guess is Freddie,
(18:21):
is it will probably be late in the year, probably
around November. We have a very large harness race here
in New Zealand called the New Zealand Cup, and we
attract a huge wagering audience and a huge on track audience,
and we thought it might be good to build that
into the conference as well, so that all those international
people get to see what the very best in harness
(18:44):
racing zone looks like.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
Time for North American people, because that's in November's right
after Harrisburg. I remember going to the New Zealand Cup
the week after Harrisburg years ago, and it's an incredibly
fun event and it would be a greek for everybody
to go there, easy for Americas.
Speaker 7 (19:05):
Yes, Michael, I have a question. So the Melbourne Cup
is a pretty prestigious race and we get it offered
the Melbourne Cup in the United States it runs around
a love in the clock Eastern Could you do anything
like that with your race?
Speaker 6 (19:25):
Yeah, look, it's a good question, Michael. We did actually
think about that last year.
Speaker 5 (19:29):
But I guess to be honest, we were molso looking
at it from an.
Speaker 6 (19:33):
Australian audience perspective.
Speaker 5 (19:35):
So Australia typically is three hours behind New Zealand time.
So our New Zealand Cup is typically held on the
second Tuesday of November, and generally speaking it's run at
about five o'clock New Zealand time, which is about two
o'clock Australian time. So I'm not quite sure you know
what top train that would see that race in America,
(19:59):
but it could be something we could certainly think about
as we continue to carry out our international audience.
Speaker 7 (20:07):
Thank you, sir.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
Yeah, the time, the time difference is an issue of me,
and we talked about that just for a second when
we were together in New Zealand, about if you could
have perhaps certain of race meetings designed for the US
market that would start very early in the morning and
in cases where it wouldn't be aimed at Australia, that's
probably much more feasible.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Yes, yes, hey, hey, I have a question for you, Brad.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
What do you think about the tariffs that will be
in effect now on bringing horses in from New Zealand
and Australia to the US. Do you think that's going
to have any effect or do we know anything about
what the tariffs are going to be.
Speaker 5 (20:49):
Now, I don't, Freddy, I'm study nothing that I'm aware
of specifically, all would be surprised if a tariff is
placed on it, fortunately or unfortunately, depending on the way
it is. We do obviously export a number of horses
to America, but our largest export market is Australia by
by a long way, and then China to a lesser extent.
(21:12):
So if the tariff was brought in, I don't think
it will have a material material impact, And I certainly
know from you know, harness racing New Zealand's perspectively, obviously
wouldn't wouldn't be looking to return fire with our own
own set of tariffs.
Speaker 6 (21:28):
You know.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
Actually the way that people are afraid of being applied
would probably have an impact, Brad, because there, I mean,
the fear would be that you buy a horse down
Under for one hundred thousand dollars and when it lands
in the States and goes to customs, the buyer could
be charged for twenty five percent tariff on that. If
(21:50):
that happened, I mean that happened, If that happened that
would have an impact. That's a big amount.
Speaker 5 (21:56):
We would have an impact on the on the buyer.
Gordon in americasolutely, I guess look, it's it's both, you know,
a threat and an opportunity. So obviously, you know, one
of the challenges that we've got here in New Zealand
is because our product, our racing product, is so good,
we export you know, probably about thirty percent of the
(22:17):
horses that we breed, typically to Australia. So if that
export market slowed down, that would mean that we would
actually have more horses staying in New Zealand and racing,
which is directly into field sizes, which feels directly into
to the waging. We know that the bigger the field
size here in New Zealand, the more people wager wager
on it. So whilst it would be a negative certainty
(22:38):
for the end user in the States, it actually would
be a positive to a certain extent here in New Zealand,
but obviously be the negative New Zelm would be that
that owner obviously wouldn't get to pocket you know, a
nice sum of money through the sale of that.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
Sure, but your problems are so similar, especially you're the
the environment in New Zealand I found amazing where there's
such a culture of horse racing. People really love it,
and it's very kin in America to what you see
in Ohio and perhaps Kentucky. The rest of America is
a little bit less that way, but you have a
(23:14):
real good chance because of that that really enthusiasm for
racing there.
Speaker 6 (23:20):
We certainly do Gordon.
Speaker 5 (23:22):
And look when I've been in New Zealand for for
eight months here and one of the things that's been
driven into me by the Kiwis is that, you know,
the DNA of New Zealand is built around three things, beer, rugby,
union and racing. It's actually it's actually in their DNA,
and it's a pretty good place, you know, to start from.
And you know we do attract, you know, reasonably good
(23:44):
crowds by comparison. It's been probably two decades since I
was in the Meadowlands, but I've been to a lot
of race meetings in and around Australasia. I have to
say that the patronage the New Zealand racing is far
greater and where I see elsewhere, and I think part
of it is built on that DNA. But it's also
(24:04):
the fact that I do know the clubs do look
after the owners. Each of the clubs have an owner's
room where they provide hospitality, and I know the owners
look to be involved in that anytime they're horse races,
So I do tend to see a lot more owners
tending race menis in New Zealand what I've observed elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Could you explain the club system?
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Of course, we don't have a club station here in
the US, so for our audience.
Speaker 5 (24:34):
Each we have thirty nine clubs here in New Zealand.
They're all an incorporated society. They all operate under their
own own rules and regulations, but they will have to
comply with the New Zealand Racing rules and regulations. It's
sort of like a dotted line accountability through to Harness
Racing New Zealand.
Speaker 6 (24:55):
But they each operate their.
Speaker 5 (24:57):
Own individual business, but they are support ord by Harness
Racing New Zealand. We provide them with funding to help
them put on the race meetings, but it's also up
to the clubs then to generate additional revenue to make
sure that they can trail at a profitable level. So
each club is its own own business with an own
(25:19):
set of directors but certainly Harness Racing New zeal is
a controlling body over those thirty thirty nine clubs. Typically,
our clubs are made up of volunteers. Just two of
our of our clubs there are two Metropolitan clubs have
paid board members. The rest of our clubs committees or
(25:41):
boards are all in a voluntary capacity to do.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
The clubs compete against each other.
Speaker 5 (25:50):
Yeah, look, there's definitely pretty They're very competitive, There's no
doubt about that because generally speaking, they want more race meetings,
they want more prize money, they want more people on
the track, and they guard their results very strongly. So
they're incredibly protective, which can be interesting, but at the
(26:14):
same time it's a positive. You know, they're very passionate
about how they present their race courses and how passionate
they are about making sure that regardless of what age
you are, there's something that will appeal to you on
that track.
Speaker 6 (26:28):
And what I.
Speaker 5 (26:30):
Find is some of our race clubs that maybe only
race once or twice a year, have an incredibly passionate,
engaging board. They know they only get one or two
chances a year to attract a great audience and to
make some money. So typically I went to a race
meeting in the right down the deep south of New
Zealand a few months ago, and it's in a small
(26:51):
township and the townships we've got about three hundred people.
And when I went there, they said they will get
eight thousand people to that race, minting to one race
day year, and I must admit.
Speaker 6 (27:03):
I was a bit skeptical, but they did.
Speaker 5 (27:04):
They got over eight thousand people to a race meeting,
which is probably a bit like a fair type race
meeting in America, but generally eight thousand people, lots of
young people, all age demographics, lots of fun activations the
whole day. And it was just an incredible site that
a township of two or three hundred people could.
Speaker 6 (27:26):
Draw in eight thousand people from all over New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
How much did they wager total in that?
Speaker 5 (27:33):
Yeah, look that it was actually very strong goodant, so
well I think it was strong. So it was one
point five million was waging on that on that meeting
across Amaze across New Zealand. So one point five million.
They race one day a year, and one year is
probably about right for them. But they did an incredible job.
(27:54):
There's lots of work that goes into it, they're incredibly
passionate and they get the results.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
And how much is how much?
Speaker 6 (28:01):
Incredible time.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
I was wondering how much is typically bet on the
New Zealand Cup.
Speaker 5 (28:09):
New Zealand Cup last year seven point four million. That's
on the New Zealand Cup meeting. On the rice itself,
I have a two point four million, So it's the biggest.
Speaker 6 (28:20):
Why jud rice single rice in New Zealand.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
So however, in the thoroughbreds, that New Zealand Cup is
the largest single wyged rice in New Zealand.
Speaker 6 (28:30):
Hyar.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
You touched on something before when you talked about the syndications,
and it's interesting because you're trying to connect the thoroughbred industry,
where in America is a big effort to sort of
divide on a some thoroughbred. But what you are trying
to utilize is the thoroughbred concept of syndication, as you
(28:52):
mentioned earlier, and that's not something syndications that existed in
the States are are different, they're not. They're not in
any way using the thoroughbred people let alone. I mean,
the stable is the closest, but we don't have a
tie in with the thoroughbud you're trying to get some
(29:13):
of the type syndicators for the thoroughbreds to set up
finer syndicates, and that's something that maybe we could be
trying to do here too.
Speaker 5 (29:22):
Yeah, absolutely good, and I think that's a huge opportunity here.
Speaker 6 (29:26):
In New Zealand.
Speaker 5 (29:27):
We've got quite a large number of successful thoroughbred syndication
companies and we're working with them to provide them with
a compelling proposition as to why they should actually stretch
out and get into harness racing syndication. And for us,
what's going to important is for New Zealand to rapidly
increase our ownership base in harness racing, and the one
(29:51):
way to do that is to work with the thoroughbred
syndication companies. They have the potter base, they already have
a very large target base, they already have syndica.
Speaker 6 (30:00):
It's that understand racing.
Speaker 5 (30:03):
But there's also an affordability challenge with thoroughbreds as well,
and I suspect that there's probably some people that are
falling out the bottom of those thoroughbred syndications due to affordability,
and I'd like them to fall straight into a harness.
Speaker 6 (30:14):
Racing syndication which has lower cost. And yes, I.
Speaker 5 (30:19):
Understand there's an economy of scale from prize money, but
I think there's a great opportunity to work with the
thoroughbred syndication companies in New Zealand. At the end of
the day, it's one equine and at this stage, I'd
be very surprised if we didn't have our first thoroughbred
syndication company stretching out into harness racing at next year's
yielding sales.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
Yeah, I think it's a great idea. I'm trying here.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Absolutely, Michael, do you want to wed you're in on that.
Speaker 7 (30:51):
I think all the things I hear are very good.
I'm a little unfamiliar with the exchange rate, but I
just up and those are some pretty decent numbers, So
I think you're going in the right direction from what
I hear.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
Well, I can tell you Brad did a hell of
a job in Queensland because over the last five or
six years what became the pre eminent jurisdiction in Australia
was Queensland sort of out of nowhere, and it's going
to culminate this year in a tremendous eating in July
where they have the Interdominion, they have, the Blacks of
(31:31):
Faith they have. I guess Brad would know the total
amount that they have. At least five or six really
major races for significate money it'll be going on at
that time.
Speaker 6 (31:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (31:43):
I think Gordon through through the win accountable in Queensland
this year, which includes the Dominion.
Speaker 6 (31:50):
I think there's between.
Speaker 5 (31:52):
Seven and nine million dollars in prize money that will
be distributed over a four week a four week period
in that time in Queensland. Australia in their winter time
is in an unchallenged area because it is the winter time.
Most people don't like to race horses in winter time.
(32:13):
But winter in Brisbane is like twenty five degrees. I'm
not quite sure that Celsius in America, but it's it's
quite pleasant and so play Florida exactly. Yes, so very
very similar to Florida, but without the alligators. So yeah,
(32:33):
nobody wants to compete with a major carnival in July
in Australasia. That's New Zealand and Australia and Queensland canon
have because of their incredible winter and the fact that
there's no feature racing in and around that time.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
It's become the major destination of other carnivals. But do
you have a great I'm only bringing this up these
Americans don't really understand that there's how much money you
can resource down under it and I shouldn't say it
because we redown it and I'm a looking to create
new competition. But even in New Zealand, in I think
it's what April and April and May between the North
(33:09):
Island and South Island. I imagine that you race for
three to four million.
Speaker 6 (33:16):
Yeah, that would be a pretty good number.
Speaker 5 (33:18):
Gordon, and we've got this coming Friday in the North
Island at a racetrack called Cambridge. We've got two large
slot races. We've got a trot slot race which is
for six hundred thousand, and we've got a pacing slot
race for a million dollars. So we've got the best
trotters and the best paces in Australasia competing here in
(33:40):
New Zealand Friday night.
Speaker 6 (33:42):
I hope you might be.
Speaker 5 (33:43):
Able to view it live in the States, but we've
got the very best horses racing in Australasia here in
New Zealand at this moment. We also have other slot
races for a half million dollars. Our New Zealand Cup
is worth a million dollars. We've got a major trot
race that is on the same time as our New
Zealand Cup worth half a million dollars. So we've just
(34:06):
recently in the last six months increased our stakes by
a record amount. So we've invested ten million dollars per
annum for the next three years in increased stakes here
in New Zealand off the back of some good support
that we're that we're getting from Mantain and I suspect
that over the next three to four months there's there's more,
(34:27):
there's more good news coming.
Speaker 6 (34:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
I think New Zealand is the is the standout place
in the world for highness racing right now in terms
of a positive future and a positive outlook. And it's
it's nice to see because everything's doom and gloom in
the States. So the here a vision that's likely to
be successful a nice thing for all of us to hear.
Speaker 5 (34:49):
Yeah, thank you good And I think certainly I know
we've got we've got probably seven or eight American brood
mares that have come to New Zealand in the last
probab twelve months that are either currently and still owned
by an American stud or New Zealand investors have bought
those breed mere So what I can see over the
(35:11):
next couple of years is the uniqueness to the new
different pedigrees is really starting to starting to involve or
have a lot more American blood coming throughout our pedigrees,
which you know, I'm hoping there's an opportunity to get more.
Speaker 6 (35:25):
Americans to come down.
Speaker 5 (35:26):
To our healing sales and look at these horses and
perhaps invest leave their horses here, race them, and at
some stage if they wanted to send them back to America.
Speaker 6 (35:36):
So I do see an evolving in.
Speaker 5 (35:38):
Future market there between North America and New Zealand through
through our healing sales, and those pedigrees will start to
appear in our sale catalogs from next year.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
Yeah, it's difficult that what would be interesting would be
if you could create a New Zealand at the right
time of the year, a big race that would be
interesting for American owners to send their horses down for
they would have to complement our schedule, not be disruptive
of that or endangering a horse. But the difficulty, I mean,
(36:11):
we looked at sending horses down there a few times
from here, and the difficulty has always been the quarantine.
I think you have a three month or three week
or four week quarantine down there that this makes everything
very difficult. But if you could bring American racehorses over
for some special event, that would certainly make owners much
more likely to go down under or be it the
earing sales or invest down there.
Speaker 6 (36:34):
Yeah, look good, don't think you.
Speaker 5 (36:35):
I think there's you know, when I look around internationally
today in Honness Rising, it appears to me everybody we're
sort of everyone's upriting in a solid advices at the moment,
and there's no one really connecting Hanness Rising around the world.
Speaker 6 (36:49):
And I'm hyping that there will.
Speaker 5 (36:50):
Trarding conference in twenty twenty six, we'll start a price.
That's where we can start reconnecting inter nationally. Because the
one thing I know there's an opportunity out there is
most sports around the world these days have a World Cup. Yes,
we do have a driver's Harness Ration Driver's World Cup.
We actually don't have a racing World Cup. And I
(37:10):
guess to make it a truly World Cup, it's probably
going to have to be a trotting race. So I
think there's a solution out there somewhere one day that
we might be able to put together a World Cup
of Trotting.
Speaker 6 (37:22):
And I think it's probably not too far away.
Speaker 5 (37:27):
I think there are some opportunities there, and maybe it's
a conversation at the World Trotting Conference on what that
might look like, hopefully well put it.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
I've read here what about the Yankers International trot Could
that be included in here?
Speaker 6 (37:43):
Right in there? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (37:45):
Absolutely, Yeah, I think it's a million dollars that that
Yonker's race. And I've been to Yonkers many years ago,
a great night, had a great night there, So yeah,
I think, and this is the point I was making
for you. I think everyone is sort of working in
a linear fashion the moment. They're all doing their own thing,
and I guess that's partly because they're probably feeling as
they were in survival mode. We're not actually in thriving mode,
(38:08):
so probably everyone's sort of looking to protect their own
their own patch, but knowing's actually connecting harness racing globally
to seek out, well, where are the opportunities. And I
think if we're going to grow ourcade, we have to
think more global and less local, but I understand we
do need to solve locally at the same time.
Speaker 4 (38:28):
I can't argue with that. Any other questions trying to
strike you or Michael.
Speaker 7 (38:35):
Yeah, I'd like I'd like to say that we need
a race well in North America. I think the last
prestigious race of the year is probably the TVG in
the final four, and then we really don't have anything
happening until the Leabe slash Board gott of Lake Barge
or early April. So anything that could be done between
that time we need, like blood because we need to
(38:58):
start creating interest earlier this there will be a vehicle
to do that.
Speaker 4 (39:03):
Yeah, and you know, Michael, the two probably that almost
definitely the two best facing horses in the world are
down Under and they'll be in that race next week
in Cambridge. But the two Australian champions are I would
say better than any horses we have in North America.
And I wouldn't even be surprised if the third and
(39:25):
fourth best or as good as anything we have here.
So it's I mean, we should go back at some
point to some races in America. I don't know if
you remember when Adeld Vivier, the French trotting champion, came
over a long time ago to the meadowlands and they
created a lot of publicity and a lot of interest.
But he had a lot of personality of that horse,
so he was a special horse. But certainly there should
(39:48):
be some race over year that is international in the States.
If they can organize New Zealand in a way that
people can do it should be there too, or perhaps
just rotate, but there should be an international race that
can read international pools and international visibility in international television
of a level of the thoroughbreds. We need that as
an industry, and there's that opportunity people would work together
(40:11):
and hopefully in that conference you'll have a chance to
trade the twist irons to do that.
Speaker 5 (40:19):
I actually really do think it's something that we need
to have a conversation around. Gordon and Michael, you've probably
got more experience than me around this, but it appears
to me that if we can create this truly global
harness racing event, there's a very good chance you could
probably get the World Pools interested in wagering.
Speaker 6 (40:37):
Now, the World Pools is.
Speaker 5 (40:38):
Owned by the Hong Kong Choppy Club a huge amount
of wagering, and I think if we could pull together
an international event like that, I think we could almost
convince the world pools to operate on that particular race,
which would probably provide the largest ever wagering pool on
(41:00):
a harness racing event.
Speaker 6 (41:02):
So I think the opportunities are there.
Speaker 5 (41:03):
We need to create it, we need to work together,
we need to work out how we could collaboratively and
collectively fund such an event. I think there is an
opportunity there, and we will take full advantage of the
Little Trophic Conference to start that conversation, because I think
it's something that really needs to really needs to be
done to get more of a focus on harness racing globally,
(41:25):
not just at the local levels. And I think that's
the part for me that's missing at the moment. That's
an opportunity that we can close.
Speaker 4 (41:33):
Yeah, Clay Horner couldn't make it today for this interview,
which is too bad because one of the major points
that he's been trying to push is the need for
not just a sort of harness racing network, but a
special collection of tracks that are big enough and have
a big enough handle that you can create a show
(41:55):
around those tracks and have quiper timing that you do
in New Zealand Australia, fewer races don't start on time.
They get switched to TB seven or something, and you
know there's a consequence to it. In America there's no consequence,
and it makes it hard for you to handle our
product because we don't live up to our start times.
But if you could come up with races between all
(42:18):
of us, as you said, opens up a door that
could be spectacular. And if you add that to the
wagering initiatives that are available now technologically and in other ways,
you know, harness racing could have a new era. But
there has to be a desire to do it and
an openness to do it. And certainly if you want
assistance or connections in the States and their ideas to discuss,
(42:43):
any of us would be happy to help. I know
Clay Horner would would be happy to help. Obviously, if
it speaks to the USTA. The problem is sad to
say that in the past the USTA hasn't been exactly
proactive or creative. But with the right with the right push,
maybe something that's happened there. But if not, maybe one
can work around them and get good things done. Won't
(43:05):
has to.
Speaker 6 (43:08):
Yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker 5 (43:09):
I think we can get the right if people can
approach us with an open mind and a positive attitude
and really think about what might be possible. I think
for me, that's the part that's probably missing internationally at
the moment is we're working too much in a linear,
linear fashion and not in a circular fashion, and we're
not just maximizing the great potential that HARNA Tracing has
(43:30):
around the world. And I think if we get us
all together, I'm sure we can come up with a
much better solution than we are currently working on at
local levels.
Speaker 6 (43:40):
So I'm going assure it.
Speaker 5 (43:41):
We will take full advantage of hosting the World Trying
Conference to make sure that the agenda is incredibly robust.
We're probably not overly interested in looking through a real
vision mirror as historical data.
Speaker 6 (43:54):
It's for us, it's all about the future.
Speaker 5 (43:56):
And I think, you know, we'll try and come up
with a really constructive program of work that's focused on
what people are doing that's working internationally, but more so,
how can we work together to create something more important
for harnistration around the world to get more eyeballs, more wagering,
and more participation, and I think once we do that,
I think that's where we can really start to take
some larger steps forward.
Speaker 4 (44:19):
Well, Brad, I'm going to need I'm going to I'm
going to need therapy after the show because I'm not
used to a positive show.
Speaker 6 (44:25):
I'm not used to.
Speaker 4 (44:26):
Common sense and creativity and positivity. So I imagine Fred's
about to say that this is all the time we
can have for the show, but I got to say
that I'm going to write from here to the therapist
because it's a good news I'm not used to handling.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
You're right, Gordon, I'm going to say we're going to
close the show out on a positive note tonight.
Speaker 4 (44:46):
Brad, thanks so much for giving us your insights.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
Brad, thank you so much for joining us. Michael to you,
thank you again for joining us. And Gordon, thank you
for hosting the show this week.
Speaker 4 (44:58):
Have pleasure.
Speaker 3 (45:00):
Okay, now over to Andy for this week's Keeping Pace updates.
Speaker 8 (45:05):
Thanks Freddie, Yeah for next week's Keeping Face Calm.
Speaker 4 (45:08):
I'm going to talk.
Speaker 9 (45:10):
A little bit about the concerns that some readers have
expressed to me about the USDA rules relating to Nick Surick,
and some of these other people who have been sanctioned
by the USDA.
Speaker 4 (45:22):
There's some frustration that the USDA doesn't give.
Speaker 8 (45:25):
Enough guidance to folks when they have to deal with
people who have been sanctioned.
Speaker 6 (45:31):
So I'm going to look a little bit closer into that.
Speaker 8 (45:33):
Also going to look a little bit into this concept
of definitions and the way that the federal racing regulators
define themselves as a private.
Speaker 4 (45:45):
Entity as opposed to a public entity.
Speaker 8 (45:47):
That's significant because of all the lawsuits going on. It's
also significant because of the way the Trump administration.
Speaker 4 (45:52):
Is dealing with federal agencies.
Speaker 8 (45:54):
So it will be a packed keeping pace next Monday.
Thanks Freddie, back to you.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
Thank you Andy.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
The Harness Racing Alumni Show is the number one harness
racing podcast in North America and has listened to worldwide
on multiple platforms including Speaker, iHeartRadio, us Trots, dot Com,
Harness Link, Google Podcasts, and many others. To our audience,
thanks for listening and please join us again next week.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
The Harness Racing Alumni Show
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.