June 19, 2025 • 19 mins
On this week's Harness Racing Alumni Show, we are joined by former presiding judge, Art Gray who discusses with Freddie, Trade, and Bob a number of topics. Art speaks of the Charlie May case and judges not talking to drivers after the race. Then he hits on track closings, the successful racing program in Kentucky, HISA and the USTA on their efforts to clean up the sport. Gray then tells us about his safety line invention that he developed with jockey Chris McCarron, and his thoughts about whipping and several other important subjects. All on this week's comprehensive broadcast.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Harness Racing Alumni Show. I'm Freddie Hudson
and I'm here today with Trade Martin and Bob Marks
the Harness Racing Alumni Show with your host Freddie Hudson
and Trade Martin. Joining us today as our special guest
is former Presidon judge Art Gray Art.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Welcome to the Harness Racing Alumni Show.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Thank you, Freddie, Thank you gentlemen.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
Ert.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
As a retired judge, what are you up to these days? Oh?
Speaker 4 (00:31):
Well, still I've been retired ten years and I still
get phone calls from horsemen that have concerns about, you know,
things they're unhappy with with the commissions and the individual
racing jurisdictions. Unfortunately, there are some issues out there, but
(00:55):
the horsemen they they don't want to stay up up
to the plate.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
One one is there concerned.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
About, uh, you know, lucman livelihood if they say something
and what they're asking me to do with the follow
up on some of the articles that.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
That I've written in the past.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
And uh, you know they feel that with the my
experience and uh you know in the articles that I
have written that if I followed through and I did
the same, that I can help them out. But uh,
you know, anything that I've written in the past has
always been you know, corroborated, And you know I can't
(01:35):
just start, uh, you know, writing.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Articles and saying things that you know that I that
are not backed up, not the cording.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Yeah, hey, Art, last week we had on on as
I guess, Don Tiger, the owner of Troy NY. Now
you testify that that trial. What what can you tell
us as to what you saw in the trial? And
and and that.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Whole well, I did not address whether there was interference
or not. Don contacted me. I had written articles about
about officials and the procedures in the stand and that
it was important for the presiding judge and the associate
(02:23):
judges to hear what the drivers had to say about
a particular situation on the racetrack. The judges in New
Jersey and I won't it comes from the commission. It's
their policy. They didn't talk to the drivers.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
It's not you know, they normally they don't talk to
the drivers.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
They just look at the film and they make a decision.
But I had thirty years in the stand and it
doesn't happen often. But there are times where a driver
has said to me, well, you.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Know, I caught a whill, I caught a hook.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
You know, there was a you know, a piece of
broken equipment that that created the situation.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
And on the second look, after the.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Information had from the driver, it turned out that it
wasn't as it appeared on the film. So I, you know,
the judges that I've trained over the years, and and
I've always made a point to uh to talk to
the drivers involved, even if if the situation to uh
to talk to the drivers that are right behind the situation.
(03:28):
But UH, I think it's important to get all the
information you have the uh, the judges that they they
had the experience and they know what they're doing. You know,
you can ask questions and like if a few of
drivers getting getting the wheel underneath and he gets real close.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
And whether he hits him or not, uh, you know.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Is up is up in the air. But the driver
takes back to this and the driver that's come bearing
in ends up getting a seat. If this, uh, the
driver that gives up the hole, if he wanted the
two hole, you know, he caused that the situation. You know,
he was given in a disadvantage. And if you talk
(04:18):
to the drivers he's going to say, well, you know,
it didn't really bother me. I came back first over,
but you asked questions, said, well he had a wheel
under and you know, did he hit you?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
He'll say no.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
I said, well, did you know what were you conservati
about getting did you take back? And if he says yes,
well then it did it altered your performance And that's
not you know, that's not where you want it to be.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
And that's interference. And uh, you know, if you use
the film and.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Then ask the questions, uh, you know, you'll get down
to what what happened on the racetrack and you can
act accordingly. And if you don't talk to the drivers,
you know, I I.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Just don't understand why.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
Uh, you know, you can make decisions based just I'm
looking at the film.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Didn't Didn't they come up with the Charlie May rule
after that trial? Uh, basically where the judges would have
to talk to the.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Drivers and are they participating in that? Are they following
that rule?
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Well?
Speaker 4 (05:21):
No, the the the judge agreed that the what the
what the what the appeal was from under was that
there was no due process that they was adding judge
and the judge didn't have all the information necessary to
make a decision. And that is what the UH the
winning appeal was based on. But New Jersey didn't you know,
(05:47):
didn't follow through that UH on changing the procedure, but
that there was a a judges conference where it was
discussed a Charlie may rule that there should be a
rule that the drivers should.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Be talked to.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
How how extensive that change has gone through?
Speaker 3 (06:09):
I couldn't.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
I couldn't tell you, but I hope you know every
every state should have that.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
And have you been following any of the recent rulings
on the ork whom the U s c A lately.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
Yes, they have, They're they're making some good progress.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
They the U.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
S t A has taken on a stance that uh
you know he's a is basically focusing on the serverance
and their rule. Uh, you know, the their rules don't
fit you know, fit harness racing the situation with with
(06:51):
Jack Wagner and uh where they followed the what they did,
they followed the money and they found you can find
where where ownerships are changed to circumvent.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
To circumvent penalties, and it's something that the US can do.
They have you know, they're.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Having in their rules and it's easy to follow the money.
And that's what they did with with Jack Wagner. Now
years ago, I don't know going back twenty years. I've
been retired ten years and going back ten years or
more before that, I attempted to do the same with situations, and.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
I was shot down by the Commission said, well, you know,
we're not gonna We're not going to get into this.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
And it's a situation where the here's a rule that
they haven't uh, and the Commission is, uh, you know,
is not founeling through on it. I couldn't tell you why,
but it's something that has been neglected and now the
u SCA is taking us ants on this. And it's
(08:02):
not that the USCA is trying to replace the Commissions with.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
The u s t A.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
They have powers and actions that they can take that
compliment they are.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Now you brought up Heisa.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Now, many people probably don't know that you actually lobbied
on the Senate side with me back in I guess
it was twenty twenty, Yeah, twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
We did. We attended about six or eight Senate officers.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Yeah, we did. We went down there with Chris mccaren
is something that I've worked with.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Christ mccaren was there Alan government, what's you quote.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Go go to Francis uh and several several other people
and Andy Dan Kasmier. We all robbied over there for
I guess it was six or eight officers, I don't remember.
How do you see now this is that was way
before Heiserer's law. It was before the indictments, before the arrest.
How do you see HASA doing right now?
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Has harnesses and they're they're not doing anything for.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Us nothing, nothing for harness, only thoroughbreds, right.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
And you know the USCA has realized this, and you
know they you know, they're taking a stance and going
goe to you know, to address issues and harness racing.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
But HESA has not.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Uh they're the little Reds in general. I'm not happy
with what's going on, you know with Haysa, with the
you know, with the jackeys and the number of times
that they're going to the to the whip and the
stretch and then and placings and uh, you know there
(09:46):
they feel that that they they there's a long way
to go before that this is where it needs to be,
so that they're effectively. Uh, you know, can regulate the
thoroughbred racings.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Correct and I probably I don't see Heiser coming into
harness racing for probably another two years at the earliest
from what I can see. And the other thing I'm
going to ask you, what do you think of our
recent track closings we've had. We've lost cal Expo, we've
lost Freehold, Pompino.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
What's your read on that.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
Well, unfortunately, we're losing racetracks through through attrition. And a
perfect example is what's going on with the fairgrounds in
New Orleans and New Orleans had, you know, one of
the fairgrounds one of the top thoroughfare race tracks, and
they the politicians have a working passing a rule looks
(10:45):
like it's going to pass that allows slot machines, and
they're allowing the expansion of slap machines outside of the racetracks.
And Churchill downs and owns the fairgrounds. You know, they
they went through the numbers and they said that you
know this, that this isn't gonna work. And they've gone
(11:06):
to the point where they have requested too to resign
from there, to to give up their license to race
in uh in Louisiana, in New Orleans and unfortunately that
is you know that that is what you know, the.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Future is.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
On the thoroughbred side. And they're told to some of
the you know, thoroughbred colleagues. You know, they're talking about
the race tracks that may be left, might be hot
hot springs. Sant Anita is up in the air with
with what Thronax have uh planned for uh for the future.
It looks like sculf Stream is history. You know, it's
(11:51):
not good and there isn't anything we can do uh
to stop it. I don't think the legislature, you know,
if there's another way for the uh, the states to
bring in more revenue, I think that's gonna sue proceede
the needs of the horsemen, right.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
UH hearings there were Herrington in Ohio.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Just the last uh the last week or so about
some of the legislation in there, and the president of
the Horsemen's Association testified before the legislature about the income
the hundreds of thousands of dollars that uh that are
that honitration brings to the surrounding community to various different
(12:36):
jobs and uh, you know, we'll have to see what
happens in Ohio, but I uh I think I don't
think it's gonna be good down the road.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Everyone basically looks at Kentucky as being our most successful
state right now for racing. And they seem to have
put the program together with the historic racing slots that
seems to be covering the purses. The persons are fantastic,
the handles are off. I don't see any really solid
handles in our sport except for over at the meadowlands
(13:10):
and maybe would buying.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Uh do you see the same thing.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Yes, Uh. Kentucky is doing very well. As a matter
of fact.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
Talking to race Nick a while back, and he had
said that if he was a young man, that's where
that's where he'd be, he'd set up his bag. His
operation is racing operations in Kentucky. Indiana is also is
doing well with their this sire Stakes program and know
what they're doing at the at the at the racetrack.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Okay and Ohio.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Ohio is doing well and that seems to be the
core of our business right now. I you know, New
New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, I don't see them doing
as well as they used.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
To, well know, without the slots, you know, maybe except
for Belmont in Saratoga and Yonkers, even the Younkers, but
not the slot machines, you know racings and no god
the Uh that's what the politicians are, you know, constantly
saying that the if the racing business can't sustain itself,
(14:22):
you know, the welfare that the that the.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
Slot machines provide. Uh, you know, the money could be
going elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah, hey, Art, my last question for you.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Now you had developed with christ McCarron, I believe a
some type of safety line where what is the status
on that?
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Well that is uh, that is definitely a long story.
Christmas Caron and I first spoke to uh the at
the Racing Supposium in Arizona back in two thousand and two,
and uh, well, for those that aren't aware, basically what
it has, there's a second attachment that a bit that
extends just a half inch beyond uh, the the main
(15:05):
loop and that if the buckle gives, or that if
the if the if the main breaks, the line breaks,
that there's that secondary attachment where the driver of the jockey.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Is still abled to maintain maintain control of the horse.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
Billy O'Donnell worked hard, uh and got a rule. Uh,
that's on the books in Ontario that uh that the
safety range and safety lines are are required. But unfortunately
the commission has with the you know a lot a
lot of commissions and on various rules, they're not they're
(15:45):
not applying the rule the rules there, but no one's
checking whether the whether the safety lines are being used.
And you know, they they're kind of frustrated up there,
the horsemen that we're fighting for. But it's something that
it's it's a sign of where the things that are wrong,
you know, with our business. I mean, here's something back
(16:08):
twenty years ago that would cause that was like a
three dollars and fifty cent improvement and easy to incorporate
into a driving line.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
Now maybe after twenty years, maybe it might be.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
Ten dollars between nylon and the hook. But like stan
Bergstein wrote an article that I've traveled ten thousand miles
and spoken as many words on the simple safety issue,
safety improvement that could prevent one of the most dangerous
or one of the most spear calls that a spouse
(16:42):
can have. You know, if the driver is killed in
the course of a race because of the situation and
it's still there's well that there's the there's a horseman
or and you know they don't like they don't like
the commissions coun what to do. The commissions aren't going
(17:03):
ahead and do anything unless there's one hundred support behind it.
If there's anyone that has a question about it, it
gets dragged out, more testing. And even now the Thoroughbreds,
the the AHSA Safety Committee, they took the reins and
(17:24):
they added they changed the formatal together where they just
I believe in others believe that they just created another
situation where where the rank can can weaken and break.
So I have somewhat after twenty two years, you know,
I've given up a given.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Upon it, okay, or what happens now if they did
itself breaks well with the bit where.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
They happened, there's an attachment I have like a small
UH rubber coated snapples that will attack that you can
UH you know what said, put the loop in UH
attached to the to the snapper where if the bit breaks,
you know, the driver still has complete control from the
(18:13):
right hand to the left hand.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Was with the lines.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
The other thing that UH trainers were doing was using
a tongue type but just not wrapping the tongue, the
tongue tie, you know, around the horse's tongue, just using
the tongue tied to attach the two loops.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Okay, well that's it for me, Bob. Did you have
anything in here?
Speaker 5 (18:37):
No, I think we've covered everything. Yeah. About the only
thing I would which I still question about heer is
the whip rule because basically I would think that the
main object is to win the race. And basically, yeah,
you've hit them six times, Well wait, but if that
(18:58):
one more time, we'll get it done.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
In other words, you can't. To me, that's absurd.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
Well, the other with the whip rule is that there's
times where the jacks need to go to go to
the sapa to control the horse to strip from lugging
in or lugging out.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
So it's it's also a safety issue. You know, the.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
Politics is getting in there and uh and you know
they have to datis by listening to Peter.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
All Right, thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Okay, you're welcome.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
That's a wrap for this week's show, and please don't
forget to join us again next week.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
The Hunt Is Racing Alumni Show
Welcome to the Harness Racing Alumni Show. I'm Freddie Hudson
and I'm here today with Trade Martin and Bob Marks
the Harness Racing Alumni Show with your host Freddie Hudson
and Trade Martin. Joining us today as our special guest
is former Presidon judge Art Gray Art.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Welcome to the Harness Racing Alumni Show.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Thank you, Freddie, Thank you gentlemen.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
Ert.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
As a retired judge, what are you up to these days? Oh?
Speaker 4 (00:31):
Well, still I've been retired ten years and I still
get phone calls from horsemen that have concerns about, you know,
things they're unhappy with with the commissions and the individual
racing jurisdictions. Unfortunately, there are some issues out there, but
(00:55):
the horsemen they they don't want to stay up up
to the plate.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
One one is there concerned.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
About, uh, you know, lucman livelihood if they say something
and what they're asking me to do with the follow
up on some of the articles that.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
That I've written in the past.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
And uh, you know they feel that with the my
experience and uh you know in the articles that I
have written that if I followed through and I did
the same, that I can help them out. But uh,
you know, anything that I've written in the past has
always been you know, corroborated, And you know I can't
(01:35):
just start, uh, you know, writing.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Articles and saying things that you know that I that
are not backed up, not the cording.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Yeah, hey, Art, last week we had on on as
I guess, Don Tiger, the owner of Troy NY. Now
you testify that that trial. What what can you tell
us as to what you saw in the trial? And
and and that.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Whole well, I did not address whether there was interference
or not. Don contacted me. I had written articles about
about officials and the procedures in the stand and that
it was important for the presiding judge and the associate
(02:23):
judges to hear what the drivers had to say about
a particular situation on the racetrack. The judges in New
Jersey and I won't it comes from the commission. It's
their policy. They didn't talk to the drivers.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
It's not you know, they normally they don't talk to
the drivers.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
They just look at the film and they make a decision.
But I had thirty years in the stand and it
doesn't happen often. But there are times where a driver
has said to me, well, you.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Know, I caught a whill, I caught a hook.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
You know, there was a you know, a piece of
broken equipment that that created the situation.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
And on the second look, after the.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Information had from the driver, it turned out that it
wasn't as it appeared on the film. So I, you know,
the judges that I've trained over the years, and and
I've always made a point to uh to talk to
the drivers involved, even if if the situation to uh
to talk to the drivers that are right behind the situation.
(03:28):
But UH, I think it's important to get all the
information you have the uh, the judges that they they
had the experience and they know what they're doing. You know,
you can ask questions and like if a few of
drivers getting getting the wheel underneath and he gets real close.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
And whether he hits him or not, uh, you know.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Is up is up in the air. But the driver
takes back to this and the driver that's come bearing
in ends up getting a seat. If this, uh, the
driver that gives up the hole, if he wanted the
two hole, you know, he caused that the situation. You know,
he was given in a disadvantage. And if you talk
(04:18):
to the drivers he's going to say, well, you know,
it didn't really bother me. I came back first over,
but you asked questions, said, well he had a wheel
under and you know, did he hit you?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
He'll say no.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
I said, well, did you know what were you conservati
about getting did you take back? And if he says yes,
well then it did it altered your performance And that's
not you know, that's not where you want it to be.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
And that's interference. And uh, you know, if you use
the film and.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Then ask the questions, uh, you know, you'll get down
to what what happened on the racetrack and you can
act accordingly. And if you don't talk to the drivers,
you know, I I.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Just don't understand why.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
Uh, you know, you can make decisions based just I'm
looking at the film.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Didn't Didn't they come up with the Charlie May rule
after that trial? Uh, basically where the judges would have
to talk to the.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Drivers and are they participating in that? Are they following
that rule?
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Well?
Speaker 4 (05:21):
No, the the the judge agreed that the what the
what the what the appeal was from under was that
there was no due process that they was adding judge
and the judge didn't have all the information necessary to
make a decision. And that is what the UH the
winning appeal was based on. But New Jersey didn't you know,
(05:47):
didn't follow through that UH on changing the procedure, but
that there was a a judges conference where it was
discussed a Charlie may rule that there should be a
rule that the drivers should.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Be talked to.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
How how extensive that change has gone through?
Speaker 3 (06:09):
I couldn't.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
I couldn't tell you, but I hope you know every
every state should have that.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
And have you been following any of the recent rulings
on the ork whom the U s c A lately.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
Yes, they have, They're they're making some good progress.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
They the U.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
S t A has taken on a stance that uh
you know he's a is basically focusing on the serverance
and their rule. Uh, you know, the their rules don't
fit you know, fit harness racing the situation with with
(06:51):
Jack Wagner and uh where they followed the what they did,
they followed the money and they found you can find
where where ownerships are changed to circumvent.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
To circumvent penalties, and it's something that the US can do.
They have you know, they're.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Having in their rules and it's easy to follow the money.
And that's what they did with with Jack Wagner. Now
years ago, I don't know going back twenty years. I've
been retired ten years and going back ten years or
more before that, I attempted to do the same with situations, and.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
I was shot down by the Commission said, well, you know,
we're not gonna We're not going to get into this.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
And it's a situation where the here's a rule that
they haven't uh, and the Commission is, uh, you know,
is not founeling through on it. I couldn't tell you why,
but it's something that has been neglected and now the
u SCA is taking us ants on this. And it's
(08:02):
not that the USCA is trying to replace the Commissions with.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
The u s t A.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
They have powers and actions that they can take that
compliment they are.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Now you brought up Heisa.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Now, many people probably don't know that you actually lobbied
on the Senate side with me back in I guess
it was twenty twenty, Yeah, twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
We did. We attended about six or eight Senate officers.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Yeah, we did. We went down there with Chris mccaren
is something that I've worked with.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Christ mccaren was there Alan government, what's you quote.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Go go to Francis uh and several several other people
and Andy Dan Kasmier. We all robbied over there for
I guess it was six or eight officers, I don't remember.
How do you see now this is that was way
before Heiserer's law. It was before the indictments, before the arrest.
How do you see HASA doing right now?
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Has harnesses and they're they're not doing anything for.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Us nothing, nothing for harness, only thoroughbreds, right.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
And you know the USCA has realized this, and you
know they you know, they're taking a stance and going
goe to you know, to address issues and harness racing.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
But HESA has not.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Uh they're the little Reds in general. I'm not happy
with what's going on, you know with Haysa, with the
you know, with the jackeys and the number of times
that they're going to the to the whip and the
stretch and then and placings and uh, you know there
(09:46):
they feel that that they they there's a long way
to go before that this is where it needs to be,
so that they're effectively. Uh, you know, can regulate the
thoroughbred racings.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Correct and I probably I don't see Heiser coming into
harness racing for probably another two years at the earliest
from what I can see. And the other thing I'm
going to ask you, what do you think of our
recent track closings we've had. We've lost cal Expo, we've
lost Freehold, Pompino.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
What's your read on that.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
Well, unfortunately, we're losing racetracks through through attrition. And a
perfect example is what's going on with the fairgrounds in
New Orleans and New Orleans had, you know, one of
the fairgrounds one of the top thoroughfare race tracks, and
they the politicians have a working passing a rule looks
(10:45):
like it's going to pass that allows slot machines, and
they're allowing the expansion of slap machines outside of the racetracks.
And Churchill downs and owns the fairgrounds. You know, they
they went through the numbers and they said that you
know this, that this isn't gonna work. And they've gone
(11:06):
to the point where they have requested too to resign
from there, to to give up their license to race
in uh in Louisiana, in New Orleans and unfortunately that
is you know that that is what you know, the.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Future is.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
On the thoroughbred side. And they're told to some of
the you know, thoroughbred colleagues. You know, they're talking about
the race tracks that may be left, might be hot
hot springs. Sant Anita is up in the air with
with what Thronax have uh planned for uh for the future.
It looks like sculf Stream is history. You know, it's
(11:51):
not good and there isn't anything we can do uh
to stop it. I don't think the legislature, you know,
if there's another way for the uh, the states to
bring in more revenue, I think that's gonna sue proceede
the needs of the horsemen, right.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
UH hearings there were Herrington in Ohio.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Just the last uh the last week or so about
some of the legislation in there, and the president of
the Horsemen's Association testified before the legislature about the income
the hundreds of thousands of dollars that uh that are
that honitration brings to the surrounding community to various different
(12:36):
jobs and uh, you know, we'll have to see what
happens in Ohio, but I uh I think I don't
think it's gonna be good down the road.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Everyone basically looks at Kentucky as being our most successful
state right now for racing. And they seem to have
put the program together with the historic racing slots that
seems to be covering the purses. The persons are fantastic,
the handles are off. I don't see any really solid
handles in our sport except for over at the meadowlands
(13:10):
and maybe would buying.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Uh do you see the same thing.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Yes, Uh. Kentucky is doing very well. As a matter
of fact.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
Talking to race Nick a while back, and he had
said that if he was a young man, that's where
that's where he'd be, he'd set up his bag. His
operation is racing operations in Kentucky. Indiana is also is
doing well with their this sire Stakes program and know
what they're doing at the at the at the racetrack.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Okay and Ohio.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Ohio is doing well and that seems to be the
core of our business right now. I you know, New
New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, I don't see them doing
as well as they used.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
To, well know, without the slots, you know, maybe except
for Belmont in Saratoga and Yonkers, even the Younkers, but
not the slot machines, you know racings and no god
the Uh that's what the politicians are, you know, constantly
saying that the if the racing business can't sustain itself,
(14:22):
you know, the welfare that the that the.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
Slot machines provide. Uh, you know, the money could be
going elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah, hey, Art, my last question for you.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Now you had developed with christ McCarron, I believe a
some type of safety line where what is the status
on that?
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Well that is uh, that is definitely a long story.
Christmas Caron and I first spoke to uh the at
the Racing Supposium in Arizona back in two thousand and two,
and uh, well, for those that aren't aware, basically what
it has, there's a second attachment that a bit that
extends just a half inch beyond uh, the the main
(15:05):
loop and that if the buckle gives, or that if
the if the if the main breaks, the line breaks,
that there's that secondary attachment where the driver of the jockey.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Is still abled to maintain maintain control of the horse.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
Billy O'Donnell worked hard, uh and got a rule. Uh,
that's on the books in Ontario that uh that the
safety range and safety lines are are required. But unfortunately
the commission has with the you know a lot a
lot of commissions and on various rules, they're not they're
(15:45):
not applying the rule the rules there, but no one's
checking whether the whether the safety lines are being used.
And you know, they they're kind of frustrated up there,
the horsemen that we're fighting for. But it's something that
it's it's a sign of where the things that are wrong,
you know, with our business. I mean, here's something back
(16:08):
twenty years ago that would cause that was like a
three dollars and fifty cent improvement and easy to incorporate
into a driving line.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
Now maybe after twenty years, maybe it might be.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
Ten dollars between nylon and the hook. But like stan
Bergstein wrote an article that I've traveled ten thousand miles
and spoken as many words on the simple safety issue,
safety improvement that could prevent one of the most dangerous
or one of the most spear calls that a spouse
(16:42):
can have. You know, if the driver is killed in
the course of a race because of the situation and
it's still there's well that there's the there's a horseman
or and you know they don't like they don't like
the commissions coun what to do. The commissions aren't going
(17:03):
ahead and do anything unless there's one hundred support behind it.
If there's anyone that has a question about it, it
gets dragged out, more testing. And even now the Thoroughbreds,
the the AHSA Safety Committee, they took the reins and
(17:24):
they added they changed the formatal together where they just
I believe in others believe that they just created another
situation where where the rank can can weaken and break.
So I have somewhat after twenty two years, you know,
I've given up a given.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Upon it, okay, or what happens now if they did
itself breaks well with the bit where.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
They happened, there's an attachment I have like a small
UH rubber coated snapples that will attack that you can
UH you know what said, put the loop in UH
attached to the to the snapper where if the bit breaks,
you know, the driver still has complete control from the
(18:13):
right hand to the left hand.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Was with the lines.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
The other thing that UH trainers were doing was using
a tongue type but just not wrapping the tongue, the
tongue tie, you know, around the horse's tongue, just using
the tongue tied to attach the two loops.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Okay, well that's it for me, Bob. Did you have
anything in here?
Speaker 5 (18:37):
No, I think we've covered everything. Yeah. About the only
thing I would which I still question about heer is
the whip rule because basically I would think that the
main object is to win the race. And basically, yeah,
you've hit them six times, Well wait, but if that
(18:58):
one more time, we'll get it done.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
In other words, you can't. To me, that's absurd.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
Well, the other with the whip rule is that there's
times where the jacks need to go to go to
the sapa to control the horse to strip from lugging
in or lugging out.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
So it's it's also a safety issue. You know, the.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
Politics is getting in there and uh and you know
they have to datis by listening to Peter.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
All Right, thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Okay, you're welcome.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
That's a wrap for this week's show, and please don't
forget to join us again next week.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
The Hunt Is Racing Alumni Show
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