July 31, 2025 • 23 mins
Bill O'Donnell is one of the greatest harness racing superstar drivers of all time..!!! He’s a member of 4 Hall of Fames, the winner of the 1985 Hambletonian and the 1984 Hambletonian Oaks, winner of 8 Triple Crown races, 11 Breeder Crown races, two-time driver of the year, first driver to earn ten million in one year, winner of harness racing's riches race ever the 1984 Woodroe Willson with a purse of $2,161,000., has had 5,742 wins and earnings over a hundred million. Bill is this week's guest on the Harness Racing Alumni Show. He discusses with Freddie, Trade and Bob his career and the up-coming 100th edition of the Hambletonian. Billy predicted that Dexter would choose Maryland to drive in the big race. Hear it all on this week's broadcast. Don’t miss it…..!!!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to this week's Harness Racing Alumni Show. I'm Freddie
Hudson and I'm here today with Trade Martin and Bob Marks.
This week's Harness Racing Alumni Show is brought to you
by the Meadowlands Racetrack, home of the Hamiltonian, which will
be celebrated its one hundredth edition on August two. For
(00:21):
more information call two one eight four three two four
four six our visit Playthemeeatlands dot Com. The Harness Racing
Alumni Show with your hosts Freddy Hudson and Trade Martin
joining us today as a special guest, Our Special Guest.
(00:42):
He won the nineteen eighty five Hamiltonian the nineteen eighty
four Hamiltonian Oaks. He's a four time Hall of Fame member.
He's in the US Harness Racing Hall of Fame, the
Canadian Sports Hall of Fame Fame, the Nova Scotia Hall
of Fame, and the Canadians Racing Hall of Fame. He's
(01:02):
won the eight Breeders Crown. He's won eight Breeders Crowns,
eleven Triple Crown races. He was the first harness driver
to earn ten million in one year. He's won the
richest race in harness racing's history, the Woodrow Wilson and
with Nihilator, and that race was for two million, one
and sixty one thousand. He's been Driver of the Year
(01:25):
two times. And wait us, let us welcome. They're one
and only superstar harness driver. Billy O'Donnell. Billy, welcome to
the Harness Racing Alumni Show.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Jesus say, I don't know what to say now after
that introduction, but thank you very much. It's good to
be here. And the older I get, the better I
was at that too.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
You know, well, the Hamiltonian's coming up. They're celebrating the hundredth,
one hundredth edition. I know you're going to be there,
and I know that you've won the Hamiltonian. What does
it feel like to be in the Hamiltonian? Is there
any pressure on you?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Uh? Well, depends on what kind of horse you're driving.
Sure with not so much. With Practice, I don't think
it was pressure. I was pretty confident that he was.
I always said, you know, when you get a horse
like Practice or Annihilator, the pressure is on the guys
that are trying to beat you, not you. So with him,
but I agree you know a lot of times where
we had horses that you hoped like Nepole. Pno, there
(02:30):
was no pressure with him, you know. Maclebell was a
favorite and uh thin his second. I thought I did
the best I could, So I don't think I had
many disappointments in the Hamiltonia, and I never felt pressure much,
I don't think anyway. Maybe that's why I kind of
liked it, to be honest with you.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
So, yeah, but after a while, you're driving so many
races that it's, uh, it becomes second nature.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Well yeah, and you're driving a lot, like you know,
I feel sorry for a guy that would drive one
or two races that day and had one in the Hamiltonian.
You got too much time to sit around and think, right,
So the other.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Way, that's true, you know your business, true.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yeah, you stay busy. That's you know, that's why baseball
is very I love baseball, but it's a boring game
because you got don't have much to do in between
catch some fly balls or dround balls.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Right, yep. How do you see the racing different nowadays?
Like now now, Yeah, you were at the top of
the game and you won five and two races and
you now have guys that they're racing like at three
tracks a day and they're yeah, they're over ten thousand wins.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
I mean, it's a totally different ball game.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Well back like when I did it, I you know,
you could raise the tree all in the afternoon and
Medlands at night, and I did it a few days.
But to me that just wasn't you got. I didn't
have any life like, you know really and I had
a young family, you know, I like to spend as
much time as I could with my kids. And it's
just I don't know how they do it. I mean,
(04:11):
you might be gaining one thing, but you're taking away
from something all somewhere along the line. But in saying that,
you almost have to do that now.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Right, it looks like nobody trains the drivers no longer
train their horses.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
For the most part.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Yeah yeah, yeah, so they're not really they're not required
to be up at and on the track at seven
o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
It's like we used to have to visit.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah, yeah exactly. I hit a you know or stable
with the Medlands was you know, driving you know, Freeholme Meadowlands,
and then I just I gave the stable up someone said,
why didn't you train the forces anymore? I said, I
didn't have to. You can make a living cat drive.
And you know you sleep up at sleep nine thirty
in the morning and you go to work at seven,
(04:57):
you go home at eleven thirty. That's pretty good. Dig
dig you know.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
I used I used to like my schedule. Yeah, I
was on the track at seven, pretty much finished by eleven,
taking a nap around one o'clock in the afternoon, getting
up at four o'clock and being on the track around
you know, six six thirty, finishing up around midnight, going
out for dinner and drinks, and then starting all over again.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yeah, exactly, Yeah, that was that was That was second
nature too for most of us, right, So yeah, he
get older kind of took his toll on us. All right,
So I know now when when when the races are
over and they go, oh we got the reception afterwards,
you like to go, yeah for five minutes, not one
time you stayed the lead. No more of those days.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
But ye know the tracks used to put on some
really super parties years ago too.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Yeah, yeah, I remember.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
The medal LANs for the Woodrow Wilson. You had to
get the little pins to get into the after party afterwards.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
You who are the little pins on your shirt or
your jacket?
Speaker 4 (05:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah, yeah. The president place there, Yeah yeah, absolutely, and
you went. I mean that was partly, you know, with
with Joe. He always made sure he went to those things.
So he didn't want you not shown up right, So
that was a small price to pay the risk with
the middle ins.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Yep.
Speaker 5 (06:16):
I remember Frank, Joda Frank was really something else, wasn't
he a great.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
I always heard about Jodah Frank. He could run, think
he could run, IBM. He was just one of those guys.
He just so happy, like he hired good help and
had lots of faith in him. And if they weren't
good help when he hired them, he made good help
out of them, and he depended on him. But the
one thing he always did, he always backed his people.
(06:45):
You know. He the buck stop with him and that
was every time. He never threw anybody under the bus.
He was a real man. He's a man's man.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Here he was.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
He was.
Speaker 5 (06:55):
I remember calling him Freddy and Bill, I've no call him.
We were doing this movie and I was executive producer
of the movie, and I said, Joe I said, listen,
I need to I need to use a barn, you know,
and then the in the stable area to do a
little shoot for the movie.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
He says, no problem, he was, I sign it up
for you, you know. I mean he didn't.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
It's not like he said, well no, I don't know, let.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
Me see what happens. He never said no to me.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
You know, he was no.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
He was just a great guy. He wouldn't say no
to anybody. He's just a good guy.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
You know. I remember the first time I met him.
You know, I knew his name, and I was raised
at Foxburg, Saratoga, guess then and I went down and
I know, take my papers down, and I met Don
de Frank or Dondiander. He looked the papers at that
and he said, just you know, they were interviewing people
for the stalls. And anyway, I went in and he
(07:53):
when I went in person, he said, close that door.
So I closed the door and I walked over, and
you know, he was trying to gruff that way, and
I said, I'm well done. I know who you are. Sam.
So he sat down and went through all the papers
and uh, you know, he told you which horses you
can raise here and stuff, and he said, you want
to be here every night? And I said, yeah, okay,
the way I went, you know, I had you know,
(08:14):
I was racing three or four horses a night right
off the bat, so I'm sure he didn't hurt your
and and he for him to recommend you just you
knew you were going to be there, and he made
it known, right, So he was good. He was very
very good.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
My Joy was a nice guy. Dondie Andrew was a
nice guy too. Okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
My good Frank story, my good Joe to Frank story
is I went in with the papers for a horse
called skip Over, and he based my show Nothing but
Breaks on there from the year before, and this would
be him making this three year old story. So I
basically told him, I said he's a lot better than
what he shows on paper.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
And he said, okay, I'll give you a shot over
with that. I'll give you a.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
Shot with him.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
So skip Over he wins, he wins and pays like
some ot doer or something like that. So I had
to bring the papers in on another horse, Mariposa, who
had been racing against the top three year old Phillies,
and so she didn't look too good on the papers,
but I said, you know, she's a lot better.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Too, and so he said, okay.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
So she got in to race and I think it
opened over at the meadow Lands, and nobody at a
clue as to who she was whatsoever. And they didn't
recognize that, you know, this was seventy six. They didn't
know who the top horses were in the country and
that she was racing against them. Well, she won for
the front of it by about twenty lens and fifty
seven and a piece or fifty eight. And so I
(09:35):
had to go in a race office the next day.
And so as I walked in, Joe looks at me
and he jumps up out of his desk and he
runs over to the window. When he pulls the blinds
up and they turns around, he says, I just want
to see what type of car you're driving today?
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yeah. He always said too about you know, they'd be
talking about, well you can't do this and you can't
do that, and he said, we were meeting there one time.
You should listen, guys. I want to tell you something.
There's no steeple in this building. It's not the church.
So there's a gambling institution. Right, So now he knew,
he knew what it was all about. He was, he
(10:12):
knew how to run, he knew how to run a racetrack. Boy,
he had a lot of respect, a lot of respect
and and learned it deserves it too. So yeah, but
about the Andrew, you know, I used to call the
Andrew mister personality. You know, you go in there and
he's kind of you know, he's really quiet. And when
they opened, he lived a couple of doors down. I
(10:33):
bought a condo there and he did too, and there
was a brand new complex there. And and uh, after races,
you know, after we get together and have a drink,
you know, in front of the house or something. It
was in the summer. Really a gentleman, really a nice
guy that you know, not many people knew him, like
like from that point of view, it was just he
was when he was in the office, he was all business.
Him and Joe bows, right, But you get them away
(10:54):
from the track there, they were professionals.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Yeah, they built. Have you had Have you had a
chance to review the Hamiltonian field at all?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Yeah? I watched the racers the other night, Yeah, I did.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Who do you who do you think is gonna win.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Well, I think the horse is coming into his own Now.
He started down a little bit slow slow, He's he
was second. Every started with Maryland. Look he looked the
other night like he he's a big strong horse, and uh,
he just keeps coming like you know, he goes forever
(11:34):
and down with the wire he was. He had he
had the most trot of anybody, I think in the
super chapter, you know he was. He looked really good.
And Scotty's here On's horse too. He looked really good.
He had some go at the end, and I think
it would be pretty interesting race, to be honest with you.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Now, now you mentioned Maryland and Super Chapter of Dexter
done on both of them.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Who do you think he's gonna pick?
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Well, I've been in that situation kind of with him,
and I would if it were me, I would have
to take Maryland, even if they were only matched, because
he drives, you know me, Lander changed both those horses.
But and if he I would do whatever Marcus wanted
me to do. But if I had my brothers, I
(12:18):
would take Maryland. It's a it's a bigger stable. I mean,
Jeff Snyder is a great owner and you know, he
just doesn't have that biggest stable like Current does. And
and Scott knows that other horse too. Scott's here, and
he drove him at Vernon, actually beat Maryland with him
in Vernon. So I would say he's going to take Maryland.
(12:40):
But or I would I don't know what what deck
he would do. Whatever whatever he does, it'll be the
right choice, I'm sure. So you got to live with
it anyway, one way or another, right.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
So, yeah, yeah, I thought Maryland also, And like you know, Maryland,
he just missed by it, missed by a nose, I mean, so,
and he was coming on strong in his last quarter
to six seconds.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
I mean that's pretty pretty good.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
On He was first up too, like you know, it
just kept coming all the way to Wirey. He's a big,
strong horse. He can go a long way fast, right,
So and I and I'm sure that Dex has been
pointing him for this day. So and so, so, did.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
You get a chance to look at the Hamiltonian Oaks
at all?
Speaker 2 (13:24):
I did. Yeah, that's that's a pretty interesting race. I
think the oaks, right, there's four or five.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
But what I did notice is that there's a lot
of muscle hill Pilli's in that race, so.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah, they're they're not pass yet, they're still around. He's
a good sire, that horse Verry. He had a real
impressive two year old yesterday called it Recue at the
Red Mile that race two or three starts now he
looked really really impressor too. He's a muscle oto. It's
(14:01):
gonna be a great day of racing. It always is anyway, right,
and some of the some of is great, you know, shadowed,
but it's it's worthwhile, you know, the age horses and
in the cane too, as goes. So it's it's a
great day.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
And that meadow Lands puts on a very good show
for the Hamiltonian and you know, and other races too,
but the Hamiltonian.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Is very special.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Well, it's become a happening there. You know. I lived
in Jersey for twenty some years and people that's all
you knew I lived in northern Jersey. That they that's
all he knew was Hamiltonian. Right, So they didn't they
didn't go daily or weekly, but they they went for
the Hamiltonian. Actually, I got scopped for speeding one one
(14:47):
day with Hamiltonia day and I had like two boys
with me. They were young. And the policeman there and
Wycoff scopt me and he took my life and he said,
are you in the Hamiltonian? He said, yeah. I said listen,
just slow at the but get you better get down there,
he said. He let me go. So that's all you
would know, would the Hamiltonian day? Probably right, But that
(15:08):
was happening around the Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
And you know, I'm from the Roosevelt Raceway, and like
growing up on Long Island or our big race in
our big week was always the International Trot.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
I mean, you know that was just phenomenal. I mean
they were just it was.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
It was a whole week of race, so at parties
and events and so.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Forth like that.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
And you know, all Long Island knew about the Hamilton,
the HAMILTONI and the International Drot.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
I was there. I bought the internacement nineteen ninety at
nineteen sixty six, I was eighteen years old.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
I was.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
They sent me down with a horse and I ended
up staying for the summer, worked for Jim Kennedy, and
I remember that I worked. I packed the horse early
and got finished and went up to grandstand and it
was you know, it was like walla wall there, right,
and I'm short. I couldn't even see the race. So
there was a big guy beside me said, here, get
on my shoulders.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
He said.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
So he put me on his shoulders and gave me
his beer. Said here, beat me this beer. He said.
I was watching when Armber flight one she won beat
Broke a Pine. Yeah, that was craitter race. And I
always said, people talk about that race. Then I said,
if you watch that race, that the best horse in there,
I think, in my opinion, was Noble Victory. And he
(16:26):
was only a four year old and he had the
eight hole and he still finished third, but you know,
feet ahead the inside, he'd made it awful or awful
interesting for those two seasoned horses, right.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Yeah, that was. It was a mile and a quarter
or a mile and a half. I think they switched
it around.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
A couple of times.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
So yeah, it was a quarter mile on the quarter
of that year.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Yeah, because I know we had in nineteen seventy of
Skywish major in the International Try and he finished third.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
We were representing New Zealand, believe it or not.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Oh yeah, yeah, that was.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
That was. It was a whole week I remember, I
remember that year I was there and uh, they had
the horses that comoted from Europe fresh An armbu flight.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
She was right across from US ro.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Koan, Yeah, Roque Rock. What's the name Brocomine, Rocopine. Yeah,
she was heard that year. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
I don't want to be a strong mayor after them.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Yeah yeah, great, big long things. She was guy and
the guy I think he owned her and brought her
and trained her, right yeah, yeah, yeah, they're a great races.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
They used to basically prepare for that right right as
the race ended, they were looking for next year's entries.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
So yeah, yeah, they would be yeah, absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
I think that the part of the deal was they
got a free trip to Europe and maybe down Under every.
Speaker 6 (17:58):
Year, did they Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, And there are
some great stories, like you know, Joey Goldstein at that
time was the pr director for many of them, many
of the.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
International races, and he did some really really strange promotions,
especially like I think it was James Jaymon with the
art chokes. Yeah, they had people were shipping art chokes
over to the Roosevelt Raceway from all over the world.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Was comic book Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Yeah, well he was an innovator. Joe.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Oh yeah, he did a great job. And he was
involved in boxing too, if I remember correctly.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Yeah, yeah, And then you know we also had like
at that time, you know, going back when the from
about sixty nine on, Jackie Lee came in as the announcer.
You know, Jackie Lee was also the ring announcer for
all the big fights at Madison Square Gardens.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Yeah, yeah, I think he didn't introduce I don't know.
It was Mohammed Ali one of the big fights when
he was a young young man, right, really young man.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yeah, what a voice he had. He what a voice
he had? Jack Hey, he did.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
Yeah, Jack was good.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
So, Joe, you're gonna be at the Hamiltonian. So I
guess you're gonna limp down. You're gonna limp down there
because you have a bad foot right now.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Yeah, well I got that booto. I can. I can
almost run with this right. It makes a big difference.
There's no pain. But this year, right takes all the
you know, you're stabilizing it and taking the pressure off,
and it's getting better. It just it's going to take
a little getting used to that. So, so I has hurt,
lots of recent horses, but I've never had one like this.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
This is.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
But I'm not thirty five anymore either, so that makes
a difference, I suppose.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Yeah, it does, it does.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
That's true. That's true.
Speaker 5 (19:57):
How old are you kids, bad Billy, by the way,
how old are you kids?
Speaker 2 (20:01):
My kids?
Speaker 7 (20:02):
Christ I got a daughter and older daughter, she's fifty
some that I was really first married in Nova Scotia,
and then I was married young and got divorced.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
And then my kids are forty one and Megan will
be thirty nine this year, actually a day after Hamiltonian
and Sean is thirty four. So they the two boys
live in Massachusetts. They live in Massachusetts. And my daughter,
(20:34):
the younger daughter, she lives up there in golf. She
got a couple of kids, so I got five grandkids.
So I get wow, God bless. That's right on the
way home. I usually stop. I'll come up a long
way up towards Albany and a crossover that way and stop,
buy and sea. Well. The one, the older guy he
(20:55):
works for the state banks in Boston, and the other
guy he works for he's an environmental guy, so he
does I call him the tree hugger, but he's ron
I said, they need we need people like them though, right,
So for sure. So he works for a company that
there's a lot of factories are closed down, especially in
(21:18):
the Massachusetts of New England. They made a lot of
a lot of everything along the rivers there, the Connecticut
River and the Merrimack River, and they're all closed down.
So the EPA they've lightened their restrictions a lot. And
his company goes in there and buys those old factories
and fixes them up, tears them down, and and they
rent them and turn them into stores and condos and whatever.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
So that's what he.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Likes, that, that environmental stuff. So, which is what what
do your kids?
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Uh?
Speaker 5 (21:50):
Where do your kids sit politically?
Speaker 4 (21:52):
By the way? Uh?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
One guy his way on the left and the other
two are my daughter's kind of in the middle. And
then the other guy he's way on the right. He's
a lawyer, so he's a lawyer, but it depends on
what they get him to trade, so he can be anything. Right.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
It sounds like they're very well and it's very very
well balanced groups.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yeah, Well, we sit around the table. It's not sometimes right.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
So you know.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
You bring up something and there'll be a big argument.
So the two things you're not allowed to bring up
during dinner with a family of politics and religion.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
Right, Yeah, that's right, that's right. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Well, with that, I'm going to close the show out.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Billy, don't go away. I do.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
I do want to send out a big wishful thoughts
to the metal Lands to have that they have a great,
great upcoming Saturday with the one hundredth edition of The Hamiltonian.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Yeah. I hope you do too.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Billy, thank you so much for joining us today. I
know it was late notice for you to come on,
and thank you so much for taking time out of
your busy.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Schedule for join us anytime, anytime.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Okay, that's a wrap for this week's show. Thanks for listening,
and please don't forget to join us again next week
Speaker 3 (23:17):
The Hunt is Racing Alumni Show
Welcome to this week's Harness Racing Alumni Show. I'm Freddie
Hudson and I'm here today with Trade Martin and Bob Marks.
This week's Harness Racing Alumni Show is brought to you
by the Meadowlands Racetrack, home of the Hamiltonian, which will
be celebrated its one hundredth edition on August two. For
(00:21):
more information call two one eight four three two four
four six our visit Playthemeeatlands dot Com. The Harness Racing
Alumni Show with your hosts Freddy Hudson and Trade Martin
joining us today as a special guest, Our Special Guest.
(00:42):
He won the nineteen eighty five Hamiltonian the nineteen eighty
four Hamiltonian Oaks. He's a four time Hall of Fame member.
He's in the US Harness Racing Hall of Fame, the
Canadian Sports Hall of Fame Fame, the Nova Scotia Hall
of Fame, and the Canadians Racing Hall of Fame. He's
(01:02):
won the eight Breeders Crown. He's won eight Breeders Crowns,
eleven Triple Crown races. He was the first harness driver
to earn ten million in one year. He's won the
richest race in harness racing's history, the Woodrow Wilson and
with Nihilator, and that race was for two million, one
and sixty one thousand. He's been Driver of the Year
(01:25):
two times. And wait us, let us welcome. They're one
and only superstar harness driver. Billy O'Donnell. Billy, welcome to
the Harness Racing Alumni Show.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Jesus say, I don't know what to say now after
that introduction, but thank you very much. It's good to
be here. And the older I get, the better I
was at that too.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
You know, well, the Hamiltonian's coming up. They're celebrating the hundredth,
one hundredth edition. I know you're going to be there,
and I know that you've won the Hamiltonian. What does
it feel like to be in the Hamiltonian? Is there
any pressure on you?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Uh? Well, depends on what kind of horse you're driving.
Sure with not so much. With Practice, I don't think
it was pressure. I was pretty confident that he was.
I always said, you know, when you get a horse
like Practice or Annihilator, the pressure is on the guys
that are trying to beat you, not you. So with him,
but I agree you know a lot of times where
we had horses that you hoped like Nepole. Pno, there
(02:30):
was no pressure with him, you know. Maclebell was a
favorite and uh thin his second. I thought I did
the best I could, So I don't think I had
many disappointments in the Hamiltonia, and I never felt pressure much,
I don't think anyway. Maybe that's why I kind of
liked it, to be honest with you.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
So, yeah, but after a while, you're driving so many
races that it's, uh, it becomes second nature.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Well yeah, and you're driving a lot, like you know,
I feel sorry for a guy that would drive one
or two races that day and had one in the Hamiltonian.
You got too much time to sit around and think, right,
So the other.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Way, that's true, you know your business, true.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yeah, you stay busy. That's you know, that's why baseball
is very I love baseball, but it's a boring game
because you got don't have much to do in between
catch some fly balls or dround balls.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Right, yep. How do you see the racing different nowadays?
Like now now, Yeah, you were at the top of
the game and you won five and two races and
you now have guys that they're racing like at three
tracks a day and they're yeah, they're over ten thousand wins.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
I mean, it's a totally different ball game.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Well back like when I did it, I you know,
you could raise the tree all in the afternoon and
Medlands at night, and I did it a few days.
But to me that just wasn't you got. I didn't
have any life like, you know really and I had
a young family, you know, I like to spend as
much time as I could with my kids. And it's
just I don't know how they do it. I mean,
(04:11):
you might be gaining one thing, but you're taking away
from something all somewhere along the line. But in saying that,
you almost have to do that now.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Right, it looks like nobody trains the drivers no longer
train their horses.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
For the most part.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Yeah yeah, yeah, so they're not really they're not required
to be up at and on the track at seven
o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
It's like we used to have to visit.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah, yeah exactly. I hit a you know or stable
with the Medlands was you know, driving you know, Freeholme Meadowlands,
and then I just I gave the stable up someone said,
why didn't you train the forces anymore? I said, I
didn't have to. You can make a living cat drive.
And you know you sleep up at sleep nine thirty
in the morning and you go to work at seven,
(04:57):
you go home at eleven thirty. That's pretty good. Dig
dig you know.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
I used I used to like my schedule. Yeah, I
was on the track at seven, pretty much finished by eleven,
taking a nap around one o'clock in the afternoon, getting
up at four o'clock and being on the track around
you know, six six thirty, finishing up around midnight, going
out for dinner and drinks, and then starting all over again.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yeah, exactly, Yeah, that was that was That was second
nature too for most of us, right, So yeah, he
get older kind of took his toll on us. All right,
So I know now when when when the races are
over and they go, oh we got the reception afterwards,
you like to go, yeah for five minutes, not one
time you stayed the lead. No more of those days.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
But ye know the tracks used to put on some
really super parties years ago too.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Yeah, yeah, I remember.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
The medal LANs for the Woodrow Wilson. You had to
get the little pins to get into the after party afterwards.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
You who are the little pins on your shirt or
your jacket?
Speaker 4 (05:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah, yeah. The president place there, Yeah yeah, absolutely, and
you went. I mean that was partly, you know, with
with Joe. He always made sure he went to those things.
So he didn't want you not shown up right, So
that was a small price to pay the risk with
the middle ins.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Yep.
Speaker 5 (06:16):
I remember Frank, Joda Frank was really something else, wasn't
he a great.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
I always heard about Jodah Frank. He could run, think
he could run, IBM. He was just one of those guys.
He just so happy, like he hired good help and
had lots of faith in him. And if they weren't
good help when he hired them, he made good help
out of them, and he depended on him. But the
one thing he always did, he always backed his people.
(06:45):
You know. He the buck stop with him and that
was every time. He never threw anybody under the bus.
He was a real man. He's a man's man.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Here he was.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
He was.
Speaker 5 (06:55):
I remember calling him Freddy and Bill, I've no call him.
We were doing this movie and I was executive producer
of the movie, and I said, Joe I said, listen,
I need to I need to use a barn, you know,
and then the in the stable area to do a
little shoot for the movie.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
He says, no problem, he was, I sign it up
for you, you know. I mean he didn't.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
It's not like he said, well no, I don't know, let.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
Me see what happens. He never said no to me.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
You know, he was no.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
He was just a great guy. He wouldn't say no
to anybody. He's just a good guy.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
You know. I remember the first time I met him.
You know, I knew his name, and I was raised
at Foxburg, Saratoga, guess then and I went down and
I know, take my papers down, and I met Don
de Frank or Dondiander. He looked the papers at that
and he said, just you know, they were interviewing people
for the stalls. And anyway, I went in and he
(07:53):
when I went in person, he said, close that door.
So I closed the door and I walked over, and
you know, he was trying to gruff that way, and
I said, I'm well done. I know who you are. Sam.
So he sat down and went through all the papers
and uh, you know, he told you which horses you
can raise here and stuff, and he said, you want
to be here every night? And I said, yeah, okay,
the way I went, you know, I had you know,
(08:14):
I was racing three or four horses a night right
off the bat, so I'm sure he didn't hurt your
and and he for him to recommend you just you
knew you were going to be there, and he made
it known, right, So he was good. He was very
very good.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
My Joy was a nice guy. Dondie Andrew was a
nice guy too. Okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
My good Frank story, my good Joe to Frank story
is I went in with the papers for a horse
called skip Over, and he based my show Nothing but
Breaks on there from the year before, and this would
be him making this three year old story. So I
basically told him, I said he's a lot better than
what he shows on paper.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
And he said, okay, I'll give you a shot over
with that. I'll give you a.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
Shot with him.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
So skip Over he wins, he wins and pays like
some ot doer or something like that. So I had
to bring the papers in on another horse, Mariposa, who
had been racing against the top three year old Phillies,
and so she didn't look too good on the papers,
but I said, you know, she's a lot better.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Too, and so he said, okay.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
So she got in to race and I think it
opened over at the meadow Lands, and nobody at a
clue as to who she was whatsoever. And they didn't
recognize that, you know, this was seventy six. They didn't
know who the top horses were in the country and
that she was racing against them. Well, she won for
the front of it by about twenty lens and fifty
seven and a piece or fifty eight. And so I
(09:35):
had to go in a race office the next day.
And so as I walked in, Joe looks at me
and he jumps up out of his desk and he
runs over to the window. When he pulls the blinds
up and they turns around, he says, I just want
to see what type of car you're driving today?
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yeah. He always said too about you know, they'd be
talking about, well you can't do this and you can't
do that, and he said, we were meeting there one time.
You should listen, guys. I want to tell you something.
There's no steeple in this building. It's not the church.
So there's a gambling institution. Right, So now he knew,
he knew what it was all about. He was, he
(10:12):
knew how to run, he knew how to run a racetrack. Boy,
he had a lot of respect, a lot of respect
and and learned it deserves it too. So yeah, but
about the Andrew, you know, I used to call the
Andrew mister personality. You know, you go in there and
he's kind of you know, he's really quiet. And when
they opened, he lived a couple of doors down. I
(10:33):
bought a condo there and he did too, and there
was a brand new complex there. And and uh, after races,
you know, after we get together and have a drink,
you know, in front of the house or something. It
was in the summer. Really a gentleman, really a nice
guy that you know, not many people knew him, like
like from that point of view, it was just he
was when he was in the office, he was all business.
Him and Joe bows, right, But you get them away
(10:54):
from the track there, they were professionals.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Yeah, they built. Have you had Have you had a
chance to review the Hamiltonian field at all?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Yeah? I watched the racers the other night, Yeah, I did.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Who do you who do you think is gonna win.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Well, I think the horse is coming into his own Now.
He started down a little bit slow slow, He's he
was second. Every started with Maryland. Look he looked the
other night like he he's a big strong horse, and uh,
he just keeps coming like you know, he goes forever
(11:34):
and down with the wire he was. He had he
had the most trot of anybody, I think in the
super chapter, you know he was. He looked really good.
And Scotty's here On's horse too. He looked really good.
He had some go at the end, and I think
it would be pretty interesting race, to be honest with you.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Now, now you mentioned Maryland and Super Chapter of Dexter
done on both of them.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Who do you think he's gonna pick?
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Well, I've been in that situation kind of with him,
and I would if it were me, I would have
to take Maryland, even if they were only matched, because
he drives, you know me, Lander changed both those horses.
But and if he I would do whatever Marcus wanted
me to do. But if I had my brothers, I
(12:18):
would take Maryland. It's a it's a bigger stable. I mean,
Jeff Snyder is a great owner and you know, he
just doesn't have that biggest stable like Current does. And
and Scott knows that other horse too. Scott's here, and
he drove him at Vernon, actually beat Maryland with him
in Vernon. So I would say he's going to take Maryland.
(12:40):
But or I would I don't know what what deck
he would do. Whatever whatever he does, it'll be the
right choice, I'm sure. So you got to live with
it anyway, one way or another, right.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
So, yeah, yeah, I thought Maryland also, And like you know, Maryland,
he just missed by it, missed by a nose, I mean, so,
and he was coming on strong in his last quarter
to six seconds.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
I mean that's pretty pretty good.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
On He was first up too, like you know, it
just kept coming all the way to Wirey. He's a big,
strong horse. He can go a long way fast, right,
So and I and I'm sure that Dex has been
pointing him for this day. So and so, so, did.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
You get a chance to look at the Hamiltonian Oaks
at all?
Speaker 2 (13:24):
I did. Yeah, that's that's a pretty interesting race. I
think the oaks, right, there's four or five.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
But what I did notice is that there's a lot
of muscle hill Pilli's in that race, so.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah, they're they're not pass yet, they're still around. He's
a good sire, that horse Verry. He had a real
impressive two year old yesterday called it Recue at the
Red Mile that race two or three starts now he
looked really really impressor too. He's a muscle oto. It's
(14:01):
gonna be a great day of racing. It always is anyway, right,
and some of the some of is great, you know, shadowed,
but it's it's worthwhile, you know, the age horses and
in the cane too, as goes. So it's it's a
great day.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
And that meadow Lands puts on a very good show
for the Hamiltonian and you know, and other races too,
but the Hamiltonian.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Is very special.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Well, it's become a happening there. You know. I lived
in Jersey for twenty some years and people that's all
you knew I lived in northern Jersey. That they that's
all he knew was Hamiltonian. Right, So they didn't they
didn't go daily or weekly, but they they went for
the Hamiltonian. Actually, I got scopped for speeding one one
(14:47):
day with Hamiltonia day and I had like two boys
with me. They were young. And the policeman there and
Wycoff scopt me and he took my life and he said,
are you in the Hamiltonian? He said, yeah. I said listen,
just slow at the but get you better get down there,
he said. He let me go. So that's all you
would know, would the Hamiltonian day? Probably right, But that
(15:08):
was happening around the Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
And you know, I'm from the Roosevelt Raceway, and like
growing up on Long Island or our big race in
our big week was always the International Trot.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
I mean, you know that was just phenomenal. I mean
they were just it was.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
It was a whole week of race, so at parties
and events and so.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Forth like that.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
And you know, all Long Island knew about the Hamilton,
the HAMILTONI and the International Drot.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
I was there. I bought the internacement nineteen ninety at
nineteen sixty six, I was eighteen years old.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
I was.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
They sent me down with a horse and I ended
up staying for the summer, worked for Jim Kennedy, and
I remember that I worked. I packed the horse early
and got finished and went up to grandstand and it
was you know, it was like walla wall there, right,
and I'm short. I couldn't even see the race. So
there was a big guy beside me said, here, get
on my shoulders.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
He said.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
So he put me on his shoulders and gave me
his beer. Said here, beat me this beer. He said.
I was watching when Armber flight one she won beat
Broke a Pine. Yeah, that was craitter race. And I
always said, people talk about that race. Then I said,
if you watch that race, that the best horse in there,
I think, in my opinion, was Noble Victory. And he
(16:26):
was only a four year old and he had the
eight hole and he still finished third, but you know,
feet ahead the inside, he'd made it awful or awful
interesting for those two seasoned horses, right.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Yeah, that was. It was a mile and a quarter
or a mile and a half. I think they switched
it around.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
A couple of times.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
So yeah, it was a quarter mile on the quarter
of that year.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Yeah, because I know we had in nineteen seventy of
Skywish major in the International Try and he finished third.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
We were representing New Zealand, believe it or not.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Oh yeah, yeah, that was.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
That was. It was a whole week I remember, I
remember that year I was there and uh, they had
the horses that comoted from Europe fresh An armbu flight.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
She was right across from US ro.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Koan, Yeah, Roque Rock. What's the name Brocomine, Rocopine. Yeah,
she was heard that year. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
I don't want to be a strong mayor after them.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Yeah yeah, great, big long things. She was guy and
the guy I think he owned her and brought her
and trained her, right yeah, yeah, yeah, they're a great races.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
They used to basically prepare for that right right as
the race ended, they were looking for next year's entries.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
So yeah, yeah, they would be yeah, absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
I think that the part of the deal was they
got a free trip to Europe and maybe down Under every.
Speaker 6 (17:58):
Year, did they Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, And there are
some great stories, like you know, Joey Goldstein at that
time was the pr director for many of them, many
of the.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
International races, and he did some really really strange promotions,
especially like I think it was James Jaymon with the
art chokes. Yeah, they had people were shipping art chokes
over to the Roosevelt Raceway from all over the world.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Was comic book Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Yeah, well he was an innovator. Joe.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Oh yeah, he did a great job. And he was
involved in boxing too, if I remember correctly.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Yeah, yeah, And then you know we also had like
at that time, you know, going back when the from
about sixty nine on, Jackie Lee came in as the announcer.
You know, Jackie Lee was also the ring announcer for
all the big fights at Madison Square Gardens.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Yeah, yeah, I think he didn't introduce I don't know.
It was Mohammed Ali one of the big fights when
he was a young young man, right, really young man.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yeah, what a voice he had. He what a voice
he had? Jack Hey, he did.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
Yeah, Jack was good.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
So, Joe, you're gonna be at the Hamiltonian. So I
guess you're gonna limp down. You're gonna limp down there
because you have a bad foot right now.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Yeah, well I got that booto. I can. I can
almost run with this right. It makes a big difference.
There's no pain. But this year, right takes all the
you know, you're stabilizing it and taking the pressure off,
and it's getting better. It just it's going to take
a little getting used to that. So, so I has hurt,
lots of recent horses, but I've never had one like this.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
This is.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
But I'm not thirty five anymore either, so that makes
a difference, I suppose.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Yeah, it does, it does.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
That's true. That's true.
Speaker 5 (19:57):
How old are you kids, bad Billy, by the way,
how old are you kids?
Speaker 2 (20:01):
My kids?
Speaker 7 (20:02):
Christ I got a daughter and older daughter, she's fifty
some that I was really first married in Nova Scotia,
and then I was married young and got divorced.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
And then my kids are forty one and Megan will
be thirty nine this year, actually a day after Hamiltonian
and Sean is thirty four. So they the two boys
live in Massachusetts. They live in Massachusetts. And my daughter,
(20:34):
the younger daughter, she lives up there in golf. She
got a couple of kids, so I got five grandkids.
So I get wow, God bless. That's right on the
way home. I usually stop. I'll come up a long
way up towards Albany and a crossover that way and stop,
buy and sea. Well. The one, the older guy he
(20:55):
works for the state banks in Boston, and the other
guy he works for he's an environmental guy, so he
does I call him the tree hugger, but he's ron
I said, they need we need people like them though, right,
So for sure. So he works for a company that
there's a lot of factories are closed down, especially in
(21:18):
the Massachusetts of New England. They made a lot of
a lot of everything along the rivers there, the Connecticut
River and the Merrimack River, and they're all closed down.
So the EPA they've lightened their restrictions a lot. And
his company goes in there and buys those old factories
and fixes them up, tears them down, and and they
rent them and turn them into stores and condos and whatever.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
So that's what he.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Likes, that, that environmental stuff. So, which is what what
do your kids?
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Uh?
Speaker 5 (21:50):
Where do your kids sit politically?
Speaker 4 (21:52):
By the way? Uh?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
One guy his way on the left and the other
two are my daughter's kind of in the middle. And
then the other guy he's way on the right. He's
a lawyer, so he's a lawyer, but it depends on
what they get him to trade, so he can be anything. Right.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
It sounds like they're very well and it's very very
well balanced groups.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yeah, Well, we sit around the table. It's not sometimes right.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
So you know.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
You bring up something and there'll be a big argument.
So the two things you're not allowed to bring up
during dinner with a family of politics and religion.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
Right, Yeah, that's right, that's right. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Well, with that, I'm going to close the show out.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Billy, don't go away. I do.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
I do want to send out a big wishful thoughts
to the metal Lands to have that they have a great,
great upcoming Saturday with the one hundredth edition of The Hamiltonian.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Yeah. I hope you do too.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Billy, thank you so much for joining us today. I
know it was late notice for you to come on,
and thank you so much for taking time out of
your busy.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Schedule for join us anytime, anytime.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Okay, that's a wrap for this week's show. Thanks for listening,
and please don't forget to join us again next week
Speaker 3 (23:17):
The Hunt is Racing Alumni Show
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