Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to this week's Harness Racing Alumni Show.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I'm Freddie Hudson and I'm here today with Trade Martin,
Bob Marks, along with Andy Cohen and his weekly Keithan
Face Update. The Harness Racing Alumni Show with your host
Freddie Hudson and Trade Martin. On this week's show, we
continue to discuss the state of affairs and harness racing.
(00:23):
Joining us today, we have John Campbell, everyone knows who
he is. We have Michael Antoni Anthonosi from the Churchill
Down's Oak Curve. We have Clay Horner, and we also
have our own Bob Marks. Gentlemen, Welcome to the Harness
Racing Alumni Show. Thanks Breddy, Thanks bred Okay, So last week,
(00:50):
you know, we were discussing some of the things that
we can do to improve the harness racing. Michael, you've
basically been in charge of the metals and basically setting
up the times and how the races tell us what
you're doing.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
There, Well, I've been doing this for about thirty years,
starting in Illinois Sportsman's Park in Bellmoral Park. Eventually, race
analysis morphed into doing close times with mutuals and discovered
through failure and success that there were certain parameters that
(01:30):
created more handle, and developed a way to do this
where we could generate more handle which generated more revenue,
which also generated more interest. So I did that in
Illinois till twenty fifteen, and then I went to the
Metal Lands and did that till through twenty twenty four.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
With that, we.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Worked with Fox Sports and the Hamiltonian Societ to put
a lot of our premiere races on and created some
favorable post times which saw some great results including the
metal Lands now doing a million dollars on the metal
and the Hamiltonian Race. The last three Hamiltonians have done
over seven million in the last two metal Lands.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
Face over five million.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
And also I picked up Oak Rove in Kentucky, which
is a small track by Churchill Downs, and we've increased
handled there one hundred and sixty percent in two years.
And last year I worked with the Little Brown Jug
with Tom Wright and his team there and even though
we had two less races on Jug and Jug yet
(02:40):
day we handled more than seven hundred thousand dollars to
the year before. So through a lot of trial and error,
I think we've created a way that we can have
post times that are favorable to gamblers that we keep
the signals off each other, which creates a lot more
interest in a lot more campus for a better supply.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Clig. How is woodbin Bend doing with this? Uh?
Speaker 5 (03:10):
Well, I think, uh, you know, I'm hoping that Woodbine
will cooperate with the metalands and uh you know institute and.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
No drag policy for the for the summer.
Speaker 5 (03:24):
I also believe very fervently, just picking up on that
information that one of the absolute keys for the sports
going sport going forward is to find a way to
package our races that differ tracks at attractive times relative
(03:45):
to each other, such that we put forward a program.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
That people can follow.
Speaker 5 (03:50):
And on the picking up on the concept that you know,
getting on the Fox uh program in the summer where
they do so much with the Saratoga and Churchill and
the like, we need to do something like that in
harness racing, where we put together our very best races
(04:13):
from our very best cracks in a way that people
will and wagers will look at that as being something
that they want to follow for the entire course of
the program. You see, Churchill does that, Gulf Stream and
Santa Anita do that well, niras in a position to
do that, and we should be able to do the
(04:34):
same thing from a standard bred point of view. If
you look at every Friday and Saturday night, we could
put together you know, six races, really top races with
you know, names that people recognize, horses that people recognize,
and you know, we'll be with intelligent post times. We'll
(04:56):
be on everybody's again as good races to follow, because
I'm you know, in my view the greatest truism about
wagering is that people want to have access to the
best fools with the most competitive racis. I mean, they
just you know, go together, and we should be able
(05:16):
to work together together to present that type of package
to them on a you know, on a nightly basis
on Friday and Saturday night from the you know, the
late spring, you know, right through the right through the
breeders crown.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
And what you know.
Speaker 5 (05:31):
And woodbind is an obvious place to do that because
we have a lot of flexibility with what our timing
is and because we've now gone to an earlier starting
codact has the metal lands that you know circus six thirty.
So picking up on the conversation we've had a little
(05:52):
deeful before we got on the air. Uh, you know,
we can put those races on when it's still prime
time for people that they can follow through. And so
if you have a fantastic race at seven pm, you
could have fantastic races running from seven to ten pm
where people would look at them. In terms of saying,
(06:12):
anybody who's betting online in North America and beyond is
going to be looking at our product during that period
of time. And if we do it all season, they'll
also get some familiarity with the horses. I mean, I
think this is my final point on this, you know,
just in light of my own experience over the last
(06:32):
few years in the thoroughbred business. One of the things
the thoroughbreds do very very well is publicized when the
best horses and the highest profile horses are going to race,
and then slot those into the program and people actually
get name recognition. And you know, we we're not going
to get name recognition sort of akin to the Kentucky
(06:54):
Derby winner, but because our horses race often and because
we have real stars, we could get quite a considerable
amount of name recognition. Not just to take an example,
you know the story of a horse like Jiggy Jog
being so superior and beating the males. That's the thorough
brand of that's the standard bread equivalent of Therpe Diana,
(07:15):
and that's, you know, the most attractive story you can
give somebody, which is here is a superstar doing something
that most horses don't do, and you know, a great
mayor being able to compete against males is one of
that stories. The other thing, we have our horses race
(07:36):
often enough that if we put this on all through
the year and you get to see whoever the top
three year old is eight or.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Nine times on you know, prime time, it'll create a
good audience.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Hey, John, did you want to jump in here?
Speaker 6 (07:53):
Well, you know, obviously working with Michael since I took
over here, the importance of when those races are scheduled
and staying off the other signals. You just can't overemphasize that.
And certainly we've had times where our.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Host track didn't.
Speaker 6 (08:13):
Manage those post times as well as they could and
you get a tremendous decline and handle when that happens,
and well you had some disappointing nights because of that.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
But it really is.
Speaker 6 (08:26):
More more dollars than you can imagine get missed just
by that post time going on. If you had our
race on top of Delmark, for example, you we just
wouldn't do well. Meanwhile, if you miss Delmark by twelve minutes,
stay off the meadow lands and pop the big signals,
it'll go up maybe double a pool. That's one thing
(08:49):
I've learned. I'm certainly no expert on it, but I've
learned enough to rely on expertise and listen to the
people that do know that that that's one thing that
I've really picked up on it. And for me, I'm
a handle guy, that the handle is the most important
thing we have going We're not going to get people
(09:12):
back to the track on a regular basis. We certainly will,
and we have to do everything we can on our
big events to attract people and you know, expose them
to what we have to offer. But on a regular basis,
we've made it too easy to watch the races at home.
So really, when it comes down to it, handle on
a regular night is the only barometer we have to
(09:34):
our popularity. And I think tracks that aren't promoting their
handle are doing the industry a disservice because they're really
not growing the game or the popularity of our game.
Speaker 5 (09:48):
And just John, just to reaffirm that, and I completely
agree with you. And I don't do this on a
systematic basis, but I do it often enough to be
convinced of it. If I look on on X at
the you know the handicappers that are posting on X,
and they're both track handicappers and independent handicappers that are
(10:11):
point posting on X. Absolutely the single most important thing
they point to is there's going to be a big
pool on race number seven that's this race track. And
and you know, you know that they have a big
audience because you can see the number of people who
look at what they what they post and they rarely
(10:34):
post about oh so and so just was ran an
incredible race in the seventh race.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
But they post all the time on do you see the.
Speaker 5 (10:42):
Handle that's coming up on race nine at such and
such a track? And so you know that's just, you know,
every day proof of what you say. The thing that
people care the most about, information wise is what is
the pool going to be?
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Yeah, hey, Michael, I have a question for you.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
How much money does a track make on when they
when they approchase when that's purchased when they bet on
other tracks and does how where does that handle show
up at.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
All?
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Right, rates are negotiable between tracks. Obviously you're playing a
lot more for the Derby and Saratoga Thirdbreds than you
would be for a second tier, third bread or hardest track.
But for the most part, let's say you're paying five
percent and a blended rate is twenty percent, so eighty
(11:40):
percent gets returned to the betters, five percent goes to
the track that's hosting the event, fifteen percent goes to
the track that's where the money's coming from, where the
money is being bet And of course that's all difference
depending on what the thing is. But I'm trying to
(12:01):
use the five and fifteen because it's easy numbers to understand.
So there's a lot of money in Simulcassy if you
get people to your track, so that's all the other tracks,
there's quite a bit of money in that.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Clay. How does that work up in Woodbine up in Canada, Well.
Speaker 5 (12:21):
It's very similar. Woodbine's been very fortunate and you know,
part of it was foresight and part of it was locked.
But you know, Woodbine built out its own network which
is called HPI horse Player Interactive, which has all of
the tracks. But Woodbine has a particular advantage in Canada
(12:42):
is that they handle the signal for all the Canadian
race tracks. And you know, in some sense it's not
maybe as big a deal as it might sound, because
Woodbine itself represents seventy percent of the standardbred wagering in
Canada and almost all.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Of the thoroughbred racing.
Speaker 5 (13:03):
But it does allow uh, you know, Woodbine, by managing
it all to make quite a considerable margin for Woodbine.
So it really helped Woodbine economically, and it also allows
them to be more generous than a third party might
be in respect of how they treat the wagering coming
(13:25):
from Western Fair in London or even Fraser Downs out
in British Columbia. And that's just a historical accident that
you know, Woodbine took it over early and it's and
it's really worked out. But it does confirm the incredible
power that you have and the ability to make money
if you can actually control the whole network, which, of
(13:48):
course Churchill is probably the best at of anybody in
North America.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
Johnson also play that, of course, handle contrack goes down.
But what is almost never mentioned is on a Saturday
during the summer, that track might be hosting forty different
tracks where they're taking wages. Yeah, and you're getting full
commissioned with the exception of transmission fee on all forty
(14:17):
of those tracks. So that's a very good part of
the business.
Speaker 5 (14:22):
It is a very good part of the business. And
as I say, I've kind of embarrassed that, you know,
the entire time I was on the Woodbine board, which
was for eighteen years, so obviously things changed a lot
during that period. And this is just a very interesting
commentary on why this business end of it is so important.
(14:44):
I never really understood that as well as I clearly
should have understood it, and it's important to understand it.
I've really come to understand it over the last couple
of years, and I now make it a part of
what I look at when I look at HPI, which
is the Woodbine system, which works so well because it
you know, it means for somebody who's a real player,
(15:05):
and I'm not a big player, but you look on
them like for example, this past Saturday, I looked at
it and you know.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
For about four hours.
Speaker 5 (15:13):
I was just cracking Aqueduct, Aqueduct, Gulf Stream, my woodbine,
the metal Lands, mohawk, the woodbine, the metal Lands, and
you could look at it and say, and it worked
pretty well. And just in terms of how the times
we're working on that, you know, I looked at it
(15:36):
about for about four hours.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
I could look at.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
It and I could say, there's an interesting race going
every five minutes during this four hours if you wanted
to be be playing.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
And I was way more selective than that.
Speaker 5 (15:49):
But it just again shows about how much product there
is out there, and in particular on a Saturday, when
everybody puts their best product on, how many options it
gives to somebody, And if you control the whole system
and are getting commissions on that at least in so
far as people are betting in your network, so to speak,
(16:12):
it's really really powerful.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Hey, John, John, I get a lot of people that
tell me that we should have our own TV channel,
Harness Ration, should have our own TV channel. How hard
would that be to set something up like that?
Speaker 6 (16:27):
Well, as always, the first question is how much does
it cost? And who's going to do it. I think
it's really too bad that it hasn't been set up
even up till this point. But again it would take
resources financial and human to do it, and certainly a
(16:48):
commitment for you know, a certain number of years till
it get up and going and hopefully would turn a
profit after over time. But that's would be a big
time to get started. But I totally agree it's too
bad we don't have one. I just want to reiterate
one other thing, Freddy, like when I'm talking about handle
(17:10):
growing and doing the right thing and the best thing
you can for your track. Obviously Metalanism and would buy
the Mohawker are two biggest signals, but other tracks, small
tracks like Western Prayer Race we does extremely well handle
wise sure and have grown their handle over the last
three to five years significantly, and the same with Batavia Downs.
(17:30):
And it just shows you don't have to be a
top track to you know, when you put the resources
in and the commitment into make sure you race at
the proper time and get your races out in between
the other signals, even a small track can grow handle significantly.
Speaker 5 (17:47):
Yeah, I agree completely with that, John. I'm amazed that
you know what Western Fairer or Batavia can do and
even tracks that are as successful as they are if
they can find one night where they can you know,
be a be a player with not many other cards around.
I mean just I'll take, for example, Sunday night right
(18:09):
where there's not a lot of competition, and I'll be
you know, a little pejorative here. Even Flamborough, which does
a terrible job, can do six hundred thousand dollars every now.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
And then on a Sunday night.
Speaker 6 (18:23):
Yeah, location, location, location, location, location, location, and pick your
spots and then ultimately as a sport work together.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
I mean, I'm with you. I mean it would be
agreem if we had our own network. I actually would
be more inclined to say, let's let's make sure that
we have a great betting network and obviously TV available
to everybody who participates in that network by by being
a member and a subscriber, and then you know, do
(18:53):
what we can to, uh, you know, have some Saturday
events that we can get as part of the Fox Show.
Even though it's hard, right because they don't you know,
even for the Hamiltonian, they don't really give us the
amount of time that we deserve in that context. But
it's very hard competing at that time of year. But
I think that if we could establish our own reputation
(19:18):
for let's say, of having you know, coast to coast
cards on Friday and Saturday night, we would get to
a point when we might be able to get some
more optimal placement on some of those thoroughbred heavy cards.
But I'd be more inclined to concentrate on that than
(19:40):
worrying about getting a TV network that goes into people's
houses without us getting any bedding tie up or benefit
into that, you know. Broadcasting to Joe sitting at home
at one time made sense. But given how much their
options people have, and given how good a job you
(20:04):
can do with broadcasting through your own you know, wagering network,
which is ultimately what pays off to me, is sort
of what is the best option for us at this
point in time. And I don't say that in terms
of saying, oh, and that's a terrible thing. We really
should be better than that. I mean, the reality is,
(20:24):
you know, to be big enough to have your own network,
you really do have to be a very very big sport.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Now.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah, but one of these Freda again, one of the
things that I would have I would do like if
we could get something on TV, I would do Grand
Circuit and I would follow all the Grand Circuit.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Races through the season and promote that, and that might
get some interest.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
That's our big races and goes from track to track
and really exposes our sport to in a different way.
Speaker 6 (20:56):
Well, again, that goes back to money and even being
on the NERA box shows America's Day at the Races,
which we've really made inroads on and I can't say
enough good things about the NIRA people.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
As far as the TV production and to work with.
They're just great.
Speaker 6 (21:14):
But it takes money and the tracks don't have They
just don't have the money or won't spend the money.
And the casino companies that own the tracks are not
going to put money into our product. So it's a
lot of the time we could be We could have
more shows on that America's Day at the Racist show,
but we just don't have the financial resources to.
Speaker 5 (21:38):
To be on.
Speaker 6 (21:38):
And I will tell you for network or not network,
but national TV exposure, it's reasonably affordable, but the tracks
just don't have that excess dollars to do that or
the willingness to pay it. And I really think that
any marketing or promotion that we're going to do as
(21:58):
an industry must come from within, whether that be the
USDA or horsemen's groups, because I think the days of
racetracks spending dollars to promote it, they just don't get
enough in return for that. We're the ones that have
must market and promote our sport.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker 5 (22:19):
I agree with that, John, even if even most tracks
can look at it and say it's too expensive for
us just to do it for our sake as one racetrack, right,
and so to make it work, it has to be
an industry effort that enough tracks can look at and
say we collectively benefit from this such that we're prepared
(22:43):
to participate, and in turn, as an industry, we then
have to say to that track, you know, we're going
to do our best to find some event or some
evening where we can make you the star of the
star of the evening.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
I mean, just on off the top on that.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
One of the things that in my opinion, Dayton has
done very well by putting their four big age races
on all at one.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
Night at the time in the season when there's not.
Speaker 5 (23:13):
A lot of competition, is uh you know, really get
a lot of visibility for themselves but for our aged horses.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
In a way that we don't otherwise get.
Speaker 5 (23:25):
And I, you know, it's it's kind of not something
I would have predicted that it would be as successful.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
And as visible as it is.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
That if you heard that ring, that was Gordon trying
to reach me. They can't they He's tried to get in,
but he can't. Found that the code isn't working.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
So it is.
Speaker 5 (23:44):
Interesting just that that that that that Gordon uh isn't
on Because one of my observations, again just by paying
more attention to it myself over the last couple of years,
is what a great job they do down Under in
actually placing their races in a way that as we know,
they get a lot of people to the track, but
(24:05):
that they get a lot.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
Of attention signal wise.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Yeah, so those times they're crucial. The post times they
are crucial. Going back to the Fox shows, and I
think John's a believer now anytime you go back yet
the number if you go back and CREDI educated me
a little bit about this that if you go back
to Roosevelt in the sixties, it was nine races you
(24:30):
started eleven at eight o'clock and the last.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Race was close to midnight.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Sportsman's Park was nine or ten races about the same,
so you're running those races about twenty eight minutes apart
to do that. When we started, when we start doing
the Nira show, we started.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah, we're on the show.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
We started spacing the races with Nira to try and
get them opposite Saratoga, and as soon as we got
slotted move on, were completely opposite from Saratoga. We started
doing about six hundred thousand a race.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
That gets good, it's not gonna work.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
So the reward is incredible for adding minutes and doing
things properly, at least as far as handle. But one
of the biggest I think he ever did was going
with war racy and less time.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
That was aller. I don't know and don't you see it?
Speaker 4 (25:32):
Every teleguest man, I can hear Pharamula what they're saying before?
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Can anyone here? Gordon?
Speaker 4 (25:44):
I heard him?
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Can you hear anyone? I got him on the speakerphone, so.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
I couldn't hear. I can't Assi make I hear.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Did anyone hear what he said? No?
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Okay, Gordon, where we're scrappers. He basically apologizes to everyone.
He just said that the access code was not working
and he tried like a hundred times to get on,
and there's no way I can fix it.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
He's a late late scratch.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Also eligible.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
But you know what I was gonna say is like,
you know, Kentucky's doing extremely well, and they're doing that
with the historic horse racing those I guess I was
just call them slot machines. Would it be possible for
them to take a percentage of that to start something
like a TV series like on Kentucky Racing, Yeah, using
(26:50):
some money from their slots, John, do you think that's
a shot.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
I don't know.
Speaker 6 (26:54):
You'd have to talk to you know, that would be
an investment from ownership of the track. I don't know
what the if they'd be interested in that at all.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
I'm just thinking of some place to start something, something
to do to promote the sport.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
Yeah, it's hard.
Speaker 5 (27:12):
It would be great, and they obviously have the money
from the historical slots machines. Obviously they you know, they've
got to deal with the states that they have to
put on a certain number of races like that. And
while we all know you could put on a fantastic people.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
You can can't do any better than putting on the cards.
Speaker 5 (27:34):
From the Red Mile. I'm not sure that the the
other races, either at the Red Mile or at the
other tracks, have a you know, they don't do very
much handle and and so it would be it would
really require those owners to decide that they were prepared
(27:57):
to make a pretty significant and in broadcasting their product.
I mean, I get all their races just through the
HPI system. So for them to say we're going to
broadcast this and bear all the costs themselves, I just
would venture it would be not a great economic proposition
(28:19):
from their point of view, as much as it might
be a good idea, because if you take something that
like that on, you need to know that you've got
a feasible opportunity of getting a really big audience.
Speaker 4 (28:31):
And I'm not sure.
Speaker 5 (28:32):
You're going to get a really big audience for a
Kentucky Sires B race on a Tuesday afternoon.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Okay, Bob, you've been awful quiet.
Speaker 4 (28:45):
Say that again, fred I.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Said, you've been offul quiet. You haven't said anything.
Speaker 7 (28:50):
Because I've been listening. I've been listening, and I've been
very impressed with what I've been hearing, and I agree
with just about everything that I've heard. There's no question
have some things to do. I would agree that, yeah,
Kentucky Cyrus State Race on a Tuesday afternoon is probably
not going to get too much visibility. But certainly I
(29:13):
believe that one of the things we could do is
to schedule our races much within what they call prime time,
and don't ever ever again let a top race go
off at eleven thirty a quarter to twelve, because I
think your visibility at that point is probably negligible.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yeah, right, Bob, You've always been.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
I'm saying, like, on the coordination of the races that
we should have someone that says, Okay, this race goes
over this, on this race, next, this one, next, how
feasible is something like that?
Speaker 6 (29:51):
John Michael is the guy to ask on that. That's
exactly what he does. So I would defer to Michael.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Okay, Michael, on any particular night, we start with Mohawk
and the meadowlands and we try and space them accordingly. Now,
the bigger the space, the bigger the space there is
for Northfield, Hawthorn, Scioto, any track to try and find
(30:19):
a space other than that. So and anytime you have
a big race, if the Northfields were in the Battle
of Lake Gary, I called Dave b and Coney and
go what time you want to run this race? And
he tells me and dyl and I will figure out
how to avoid that race, and of course incorporate that
race into it. Whether it's the Battle of Saratoga or anything.
(30:41):
We're trying to do what's best.
Speaker 4 (30:43):
For the sport.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
So anytime you you separate your products, in other words,
you take to make it less personal. If you put
Saratoga and Delmar sixteen minutes apart, so that when Saratoga
becomes official Delmar Post Grade a ton of on the track,
you're gonna have the ultimate revenue because that's exactly what
(31:05):
the public wants. They want to race every fifteen minutes,
and then they want to see it where they can
bet both tracks. So ideally, if metal Lands and Mohawk
were separated, or on Tuesday night, if Yonkers and Northfield
are separated, same company, and I could use ten other instances,
(31:26):
you're going to create the maximum revenue generator. I mean,
that's that's not hard to understand. And obviously you make
a metal Lands fan out of Mohawks fan and vice versa.
So all you need is you're being like a TV
director and you try not to be selfish and you
try and accommodate everyone.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
Okay, well good, that's the that's the magic potion.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Okay. With that, I'm going to close the show out
for a little over half an hour.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
We've been running on these shows for about an hour,
which is a little bit too long from what people
have been saying, and I wanted to start telling them
about forty five minutes or less than forty five minutes.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
I want to thank everyone for joining us today.
Speaker 6 (32:09):
Our pleasure crown, I think rit thank.
Speaker 5 (32:12):
You back bye and Bred your second statement was the
other part of the magic function. Okay, I forty minutes
is the right amount of that night.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Now over to Andy.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
Thanks Fred.
Speaker 7 (32:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (32:26):
For the next column at Pollock Report. The next key
Team based column, I'm going to focus on this remarkable
announcement this week by the USTA of fines and sanctions
against Diamond Creek and John Xingra and others as part
of the USTA's investigative function.
Speaker 9 (32:47):
The announcement, I think raises as many questions as it
answers and I'm going to try to answer them in
the column, so it should be a really interesting one
to people who are interested in standardbred racing, especially the
days I've talked to some of the people on the list.
Speaker 4 (33:02):
I've talked to some of the people who were on
the list but who are no longer on the list.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Thank you Fred, thank you Andy. That's a wrap for
this week's show. Thanks for listening, and please join us
again next week the hun Is Racing Alumni Show