October 15, 2025 • 24 mins
Standardbred owner and breeder Don Tiger returns as this week's guest on the Harness Racing Alumni Show. Don discusses with Freddie and the guys some of the developments of his continued litigation on his horse Charlie May from being disqualified in the 2021 Meadowlands Pace. Tiger also gives his thoughts on drugs in racing while explaining what he would do if he became the 'Czar of harness racing'. All on this week's broadcast. Don’t miss it….!!!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to this week's Harness Racing Alumni Show. I'm Freddie
Hudson and I'm here today with Trade Martin and Bob Marks.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
This week's Harness.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Racing Alumni Show is brought to you by Hunterton Farm,
selling their consignments at the Harrisburg Sale November three through
the seventh. For more information, visit Huntertonfarm dot com. The
metal Lands Racetrack visit paymetal Lands dot com. Also, we
(00:30):
are looking for sponsors for the upcoming October release of
the bill o'donald Tribute. Sponsorships available visit us trots dot com.
The Harness Racing Alumni Show with your hosts Freddie Hudson
and Trade Martin. Joining us today is our good friend
(00:52):
Donald Tiger, the owner of the famous Paysins champion Charlie
nay Don. Welcome back to the Harness Racing Alumni SHO.
Thank sure, Freddie.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Great to be with you and Bob on beautiful morning,
Fall morning. A lot of excitement in the air Breeders
Crown eliminations for Eats Crown Finals the next few weeks,
so a lot of things to be excited about. Just
recently had some yearling sales still got the big one
coming up at Harrisburg still, so Hope Springs the Eternal,
(01:21):
A lot of people looking for new animals for next
year and new excitement. That's a lot of reasons why
people get out of bed in the horse racing game.
So your and honors and new breeds and new horses,
so exciting times.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Well, don I'm going to start off with, is there
any update on the Choey May litigation.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
It's it's a stand still. It's still out there. The
Council has sent some notes to the New Jersey Racing
Commission and the courts, and obviously everybody just wants us
to slowly die and go away, but it's going to
stay active one way or the other. I mean again,
I go back to that ruling of California with the
(02:04):
thoroughbred industry. It took I think six or seven years
to adjudicate the justified disqualification in the sant Anita Derby.
So it's going to take some time still, you know,
I think we're still a year two years away, but
the fight continues. We'll see what happens. I always like
to stress, you know, in a court of law with
a judge and independent judge, he looked at all the
(02:26):
facts of the case and ruled in our favor. It's
just the New Jersey Commission still just doesn't want to
acknowledge that ruling, and so it'll remain. There's also been
a lot of factors that have come up post I
guess you could say post trial, post adjudication, that our
(02:49):
material facts that need to be reintroduced that help our
case as well. So there's more and exciting stuff that's
out there. Again, I don't know how long it's going
to take, but we keep for sure.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yeah, are you at liberty to speak about those things?
Speaker 3 (03:05):
I don't really think so, because I don't think that
it's you know, I've the one thing I've done in
the past year, so I've just let kind of counsel
handle everything on that side. I mean, the one thing
I think we can't talk about is John Tomasello. He
was the director of Racing for New Jersey Racing Commission.
He's been removed from his post and he's been indicted,
implicated in some of the wiretaps and some of the
(03:26):
stuff that goes back to the March of twenty twenty
huge horse racing scandal indictments. I think we're twenty or
twenty five people wish we're indicted and convicted I believe
the good majority I think of, not all of them.
So he was tied into that in different various roles.
(03:48):
So I think that's an important factor. And how exactly
that comes into play, well, if he was the director
of racing and control of that stuff, So there's factors
that go along with that, because obviously he was at
using counsel Eric Reid, uh that was the opposition in
my case. He was the lead counsel. And mister Reid's
(04:08):
been on record of stating some things that Thomas Sella
directed him directly to do and had given him information
which were false information that was part of the hearing.
So you know, I don't know, that's probably the only
cat and if I can give you as far as
that goes, I mean, we'll keep fighting it. I mean
it's it's a good case and we'll keep fighting it.
(04:28):
But it continues to lead into a lot of problems
that we talk about in racing. Is just no accountability.
And you know, I had dinner the other day with
a guy that's in a military, guy that's in security
that works for one of the main phone companies. So
it's interesting that you'll see this on television a lot.
They'll be someone it's committed up a crime or someone
(04:52):
that murders someone. They used the several towers to locate people,
you know, because your cell phone will hit certain towers,
and that's what he does. He's big into that's really
high tech. He's a friend. We had inner the other
day and we're talking. I'm always fascinated about, you know,
that part of law, and so he gave me a
really great story. He said that the judge in one
(05:14):
of his jurisdictions, he's a real tough guy and he's,
you know, kind of a guy that doesn't know holds
bart in his courtroom. Well, we all know we live
in a cell phone era. Everyone has one, I mean
where they're hooked on our hips. But one of the
rules in his courtroom is if yourself rings during here
during proceedings, you're obviously automatically in contempt of court and
(05:38):
the gabble comes down and you get hit with a
five hundred dollars fine. Well, in his courtroom, prosecutors as
their cell phone ranked yes, does he stop the trout? Yes?
Contempt of court? Five hundred dollars. Fine, it's happened to
the defense attorneys, it's happened to witnesses, it's happened to everybody.
I mean even people in the crowd are watching, you know.
(06:01):
As soon as a self and rings, immediately gabble comes
down five hundred dollars fine. So guess what happened one day?
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Well, I see Charlie may one as last start out.
What are the plans for Charlie nay?
Speaker 3 (06:17):
So let's let's finish this story real quick though. So
like the judge, his phone rings in the courtroom, and
when his phone rings, uh, he looked around at everybody,
and it's the moment of quietbody doesn't know. He pulls
out the gable, hits it. Five hundred dollars fine. I'm
in contempt for it. So, like, I think that's interesting
to notate. You know, in the real world, there's accountability
(06:40):
for everybody, and uh, you know, even judge finds himself.
So I think that's part of the first premise when
you talk about harness racing. We just we we don't,
you know, we don't policy ourselves, you know, in the
right way, you know. But Charlie may finished up the
year great this year he had he went there. I
was astonished to hear this back. He went that the
(07:02):
fastest half mile at a half mile track in the
history of harness racing so far. I did not realize
that he went to the half and fifty three at Delaware,
and I guess no horse had a half mile tracks
went that fast to the half. But he kept going.
He set the track record in stakes record forty nine flat.
Was a nice effort. Small field was only a field
of three, but he did go off second choice. There
(07:24):
was a horse in there that had been running pretty well,
and we drew inside of him and a big effort
horse ran good that day, and with that we gave
him a little bit of vagation. He got about three
four weeks in the field, he's gained about sixty pounds
and he is back. He just came back on Saturday,
back to the races or back to the track. So
still trained down for a couple of months, get his
(07:44):
feedback under him and be back to the races for sure.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Okay, well, you were racing out in Sciota. What did
you think of the miracle four miles out there of
one forty seven and below?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Yeah, that you know Danny actually is a personal friend
of mine and he drove Charlie Mayo's first win ever
in the next generation. I love Dan Noble, He's a
fantastic driver, good horseman. But with that said, I mean
that obviously that day at Siota, that was a very
anomaly kind of effort, and you know that drew some ire.
Now I'm also a due process guy, so I'm not
(08:19):
exactly sure what happens. I mean, the one thing that
most of us do can realize, almost like sunshine laws
in the real world. There's certain things that happen in
our sport where we take pause and we kind of
know that something's amiss here. So what is a miss
I don't know. I just know the horse that lowered
the All h track record, who's now the track record
holder at Syota forty six and four. I know a
(08:41):
week or two before that he was ten by multiple
links up in Canada, and then his race after that effort,
I believe he was eighth, ninth or tenth as well.
So like to sandwich out in the middle, obviously it's
a questionable effort. But I mean, I don't know, not
on the inside, but it appears in the uh, you
(09:03):
know the pillow talk that they removed him from, uh
maybe a smart slight band for a year or something.
Him and Christie from Sciota, and I think Miami Valley
and Dayton I think are falling along with that. I
don't know. Again, I'm strictly doing on what you know,
other folks may have said, and there's been nothing, no rulings,
(09:24):
no faster rulings or anything like that. But he did
show up at Northfield Park, and I'm happy for Danny
that he's got a place to race. And man, can
he drive. I've always said this guy's one of the
top drivers in the world. He's a horse whisper. There's
certain guys like Walter Case, Dan Noble, Deckster are done
that can just make certain horses really go, and he's
certainly somebody that can. But again, it bakes the question
(09:47):
like with with with Northfield, and it goes back to
what I just talked about with like the judge find
himself in the courtroom for what at some point in
time you have to sit around and say, Okay, well,
if we are banning someone, you know at city reciprocity
pretty much trust the board. So like it's just odd
(10:10):
that northfield is, you know, has let him race there.
And again I'm happy for him. I'm glad. I'm just
talking more of like a macro thing like that. You know,
this is one example of fifty Like it just never
seems like the true adjudication ever takes place, you know,
And I go back to another guy, Like, there's a
(10:30):
guy Trevor Bauer. Do you know who the name Trevor
Bauer is?
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Ready, Yeah, it sounds familiar.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Okay, So Trevor Bauer is a baseball pitcher. He was
signed by the Dodgers. One could easily surmise like the
Dodgers and Yankees, very big operations, very respectable operations, a
lot of history, a lot of a lot of great players,
great games, great success stories. Well, this guy pitched for him,
and I would tell you he's probably one of the
top five pitchers in baseball. Two three years ago when
(10:59):
he had an incident. One of his incidents didn't take
place on field till it took place off the field.
So I got himself. He's some sexual perversions, and he
got himself in a little pinch off the grid. And
I guess one could argue, well, hey, it wasn't at
work was the problem. But you know, the conduct policy
in Major League Baseball, most of their Major league sports, football, Basketball,
(11:20):
these integrity issues and you know, the guy had some files, uh,
some charges filed against them and some of the evidence
that came out. Uh, he got some domestic issues. So
guess what they did. Major League Baseball suspended him. Yes,
did the daughters released him. So it just goes to say, too,
(11:41):
is like, if you're gonna want to adjudicate stuff, uh,
you've got to do it across the board. You got
to have people in your own house handling that the
same way. So you know, again and he got in
great to see him race in Northfield, but again if Northfield,
you know, maybe maybe the real problem is here is
(12:02):
nobody wants to follow along and do stuff. And that's
kind of sad in the bigger scheme, but it tells
you the problem. But you know, Northfield's had problems in
the past. I've you know, I had these discussions and
actually turned those guys into the O High Racing Commission
for you know, basically fixing races. And part of the
why why would they fix races? Well, they have invitational
(12:22):
races and they invite multiple contestants from the same stable
in the race, and Stevie wonder does if you have
multiple horses in the same race, those trainers and drivers
are going to work together. They're on the same payroll.
So it's just it's and the fact that they don't
couple them in the wagering. If they couple them in
the wagering, I guess you could, you could find a
(12:42):
way to palot it. But when they're uncoupled and one
goes to the lead and the other one sits back
and then that other one circles around, it's it's just
not fair to racing. And you know Dave ban Coney
and Northfield Park have done that. I mentioned that years ago.
You think they would change that process. No, they do
not change. It's the same thing. And you know, it's
(13:03):
shame on them for you know, being the outlier, and
it questions the integrity. I mean, you know, if I'm
on the board of directors of MGM Casinos, I mean
I would have to look into the conduct up there
of the race secretary and the way they're putting races
together because they're defrauding the public. And one thing, I
go back to that word because when the judge originally
(13:26):
ruled into Charlie May case one of the big things
for him. He wasn't as much.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Worried about me.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
But what he did state is he said the people
of New Jersey and the residents of his state were
affected by the takedown of Charlie May that day because
they wager on the races and those wagers. We expect
those races to be adjudicated properly and fair, And that
was his big bone of contention. So like people are
(13:53):
wagering at Norfield Park, on these races where they have
multiple entries, people are wagering, and you know, he's not
protecting the state, the people that live in the state
of Ohio that wager on those races, and even more
so the people that wager them all over the US.
I mean, they have wagering. I think they have a
(14:13):
decent handle at Northfield. So again, it's the product and
it's a shame. You know. Jason Roth, the race secretary
side of Downs, I love him. I think he's a
fantastic guy. And you know, I don't agree with him
all the time. We've butted heads the time. So you know,
myself and Jason talked about this and he said, Yeah,
in an invitational race, you can't invite multiple trainers from
(14:36):
the same outfit the race and the race. It's just
not fair. It's not fair of the contestants, it's not
fair of the wagering public. So he gets it, but
other people don't. And that's just there's no uniformity of rules.
And you know, part of the issue here is is
like in major league sports, respectable sports, you know, the
(14:57):
owners and stuff that they get it. They understand like, hey,
my guy messed up. He's gonna get fined, he's going
to get suspended. It's just the nature of the beast,
you know. And I hate to dig up an old wound.
But we go back to the March of twenty twenty indictments,
and most of those indictments focused around Seth Fishman. He
was one of the main kingpins that had been supplying
(15:18):
illegal drugs and a lot of people bought those drugs.
And you know, there's a list that's been on the
internet in different places that have stated these are the
purchasers and but a lot of those people.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
That don you're what scratchy there, Yeah, that's.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
I'm turning this off. There you go, Sorry about that
my earpiece kickback on a lot of the people. You
hear me good? Now, Yeah, So a lot of the
people that had purchased those drugs on those lists, And
I'm not talking about one off, so I'm talking about
people that have bought for numerous periods of time. Like
(16:01):
you know, were they tried and convicted? No, I did
hear rumblings from my attorney. I think that said that said,
they probably could have indicted hundreds of people, but they
had to pick the main players, and I think they
used probably some of the other people that had purchased
as people to testify against them. I get all that,
but it goes back to a few good men. Like
(16:22):
in a Few Good Men for people who don't know
the movie, there was two military guys, two Marines, that
conducted a code read, which was basically a way of
internally hazing another soldier who was a substandard soldier. No,
they did that, and then they went to trial because
when they did, you know, kind of rough the guy up.
(16:43):
He actually died of asphixiation. So the guy died. They're
on trial for murder, and they find out that the colonel,
Colonel Jessop ordered the code red he was the one
that ordered it. So once they found that out, you know,
Colonel Jessop got in trouble and they let the two
guys off for murder charges, but they both still got
(17:04):
this honorably discharged, and they still got kicked out of
the Marine Corps. So it goes to the same thing.
I mean, the guys on that list that have bought drugs,
and I mean the commission still haven't done anything. There's
a few here there that are doing some stuff, and
I think there's a new one now where I think
(17:24):
one of the guys recently, he's in the news. I
think he's getting kicked out of a lot of places
from this. But it shouldn't be that hard, Like the commissions,
all the information's been there. That's what the crazy part
is is like my attorney had this information years ago.
All you got to do is get in a pacer
account and you got the USTA, you got the racing
commissions that look the other way. And personally, I think
(17:48):
the reason they look the other way is because it
indicts and it causes harm for some of their contestants
and trainers. And it's just sad again because that's part
of the problem. Is like, there's no accountability, no integrity,
and and uh.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
They should have time, they should have fixed this problem
years ago. And what they've done is they've created their
own problem because they've forced people, in order to make
a living to train and race horses. They forced them
to go out to cheat, to go against the cheaters
that are cheating. And it's a it's a major problem.
Where you know, what do you do? Do you either
(18:24):
you either join them where you get out of the business,
and most people got out of the business.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Yeah, and I've said this before. I've been pretty adam
it myself. Is I'm I'm in the camp where, you know,
all I have is a new baby every year. I
don't really buy any yearlings. I don't do anything anymore.
And and I don't wager, you know. And Bob Bob
Marx was one of the guys that kind of enlightened
me about this years ago. He's like, I don't bet
on racing for these reasons. Well, I don't know racing
(18:51):
since I mean, anybody that harness you got really looking
mirror because it's not a level playing field. And from
the judge just in the stand to the commission to
you know, the follies that are going on, like how
can you bet on the sport? And again, if you're
not betting on a sport, you're not attending it. What's
the future have in the sport? You know what I mean?
(19:12):
It just doesn't have It doesn't have a big future,
you know, for all this stuff, it does not have
a big future. So okay, at all parts of you
know where we're at.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
So okay, here's my last question for you. You wake
up in the morning and you find that you're now
the cizarre of harness ration.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
What's the first thing you're going to do?
Speaker 3 (19:34):
I think like the Elliot Nes movie, it was my
favorite thing. I can't remember the name of it. But
when they had component on the uh, they were they
were charging him, and the judge was there and the
jury was there, and they realized that the jury was tainted.
What they did is the judge said, go down the
hall and get that jury and bring them in here
and take all them down there. That's what has to happen.
(19:56):
You've got to take every single person out of all
the missions like you do. You sweep every single guy
in a commission and they're gone overnight, and then you
go to the race secretaries and you sweep every single
one of them and they're gone. Uh. And then you
start over. You put people in the commissions that are
just regular judges and juries and people that adjudicate to
(20:19):
the rules, and then you go to the racing commissions
at each individual track and those guys become independent people
that follow a condition book and follow a set of rules,
and that's it. It's an instant fix. You've got a
better product. You've got a better product to wage you're on.
And I mean, I don't want to get as crass
as what they do in Saudi Arabia, but I have
friends that go over there and when they're traveling, they're like,
(20:42):
it's the safest place in the world because if you
get caught stealing, they cut your hand off. If you
murder someone, you get murdered. So like, you have to
have accountability. And I think, if I'm the bizarre, that's
what I do. And if you start over, you give
horse racing a chance. But on the trajectory is now
it's just continuing to head to wrong path. And unfortunately,
even with the one armed bandits, with all these casinos
(21:04):
owning the racetracks, they want you to wager on casinos.
They don't want you to wager on the racetrack anyway.
So eventually, you know, when no one wages on it,
no one watches it, it becomes extinct. And that's that's
the direction we're going.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Well, the couple one's going to be big, and d
couple one's around the corner.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Now let's finish on a good note. Let's finish on
a goat like it's exciting. Man, we got we do
for those that are still in the game that we
do have Harrisburg coming up. Like I said, these Breeders
crown next couple of weeks. It's always fun. I mean,
those are a year end championships and it's a time
to be excited about the sport as much as you can.
I have a new baby every year that I from
(21:44):
a stipple hannover. How much longer breeder to three, five,
seven years? I have no idea, but the two year
old that are the yearling that I have is that
down by the seaside, Philly real excited about her at
the farm and I scold her to two guys, Ray
France and Bill Thurston. These guys are now in the game.
One of them owned a horse before the other have.
(22:06):
They're very, very exciting, and you know, they asked me
to stay in for a border, which I did, no problem.
It's fine. I'm still with them, but sold divorce to
them and we got new owners in the game. So
I continue to do my little part to try to
promote the sport, do what I can, and it's exciting
(22:27):
for them. I would like to hear you.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Know that we got dearly skales.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
That just happened. A guy like Ryan'talvin reached out to me,
asked me if I was interested in buying some a
couple of horses the Buckeye. I politely declined, but it's
nice to see guys reaching out. It's nice to see
people trying to, you know, continue to grow the sport
from the inside the best we can. I'm not gonna
quit being an ambassador. I'm going to keep doing what
I can to keep things going. And sometimes I hope
(22:52):
sometimes these these words of wisdom that we say, some
people in the right positions finally roll over and say, yeah,
we got to make some chances and fixed things. So
that's always the hope. But you know, I plan on
bringing back Charlie may at age eight next year for
some racing. And you know next year the Breeder's crown
is that Pioto downs, So it would be a dream
(23:13):
if we could get him healthy and still competing at
that level to be in the race next year when
loser draw. Would be fun to be able to race
in his home track and a breeders crown next year,
So lots of excitement.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Friday, Freddy Don I want to thank you so much
for joining us today.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
This week's Harness Racing Alumni Show is brought to you
by Hunterton Farm, selling their consignments at the Harrisburg Sale
November three through the seventh. For more information, visit Huntertonfarm
dot com. The Metal Lands Racetrack visit play Metalalands dot com. Also,
(23:50):
we are looking for sponsors for the upcoming October release
of the Bill o'donald Tribute. Sponsorships available visit us trots
dot that's a wrap for this week's show. Thanks for listening,
and please join us again next week
Speaker 2 (24:08):
The Honest Racing Alumni Show
Welcome to this week's Harness Racing Alumni Show. I'm Freddie
Hudson and I'm here today with Trade Martin and Bob Marks.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
This week's Harness.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Racing Alumni Show is brought to you by Hunterton Farm,
selling their consignments at the Harrisburg Sale November three through
the seventh. For more information, visit Huntertonfarm dot com. The
metal Lands Racetrack visit paymetal Lands dot com. Also, we
(00:30):
are looking for sponsors for the upcoming October release of
the bill o'donald Tribute. Sponsorships available visit us trots dot com.
The Harness Racing Alumni Show with your hosts Freddie Hudson
and Trade Martin. Joining us today is our good friend
(00:52):
Donald Tiger, the owner of the famous Paysins champion Charlie
nay Don. Welcome back to the Harness Racing Alumni SHO.
Thank sure, Freddie.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Great to be with you and Bob on beautiful morning,
Fall morning. A lot of excitement in the air Breeders
Crown eliminations for Eats Crown Finals the next few weeks,
so a lot of things to be excited about. Just
recently had some yearling sales still got the big one
coming up at Harrisburg still, so Hope Springs the Eternal,
(01:21):
A lot of people looking for new animals for next
year and new excitement. That's a lot of reasons why
people get out of bed in the horse racing game.
So your and honors and new breeds and new horses,
so exciting times.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Well, don I'm going to start off with, is there
any update on the Choey May litigation.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
It's it's a stand still. It's still out there. The
Council has sent some notes to the New Jersey Racing
Commission and the courts, and obviously everybody just wants us
to slowly die and go away, but it's going to
stay active one way or the other. I mean again,
I go back to that ruling of California with the
(02:04):
thoroughbred industry. It took I think six or seven years
to adjudicate the justified disqualification in the sant Anita Derby.
So it's going to take some time still, you know,
I think we're still a year two years away, but
the fight continues. We'll see what happens. I always like
to stress, you know, in a court of law with
a judge and independent judge, he looked at all the
(02:26):
facts of the case and ruled in our favor. It's
just the New Jersey Commission still just doesn't want to
acknowledge that ruling, and so it'll remain. There's also been
a lot of factors that have come up post I
guess you could say post trial, post adjudication, that our
(02:49):
material facts that need to be reintroduced that help our
case as well. So there's more and exciting stuff that's
out there. Again, I don't know how long it's going
to take, but we keep for sure.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yeah, are you at liberty to speak about those things?
Speaker 3 (03:05):
I don't really think so, because I don't think that
it's you know, I've the one thing I've done in
the past year, so I've just let kind of counsel
handle everything on that side. I mean, the one thing
I think we can't talk about is John Tomasello. He
was the director of Racing for New Jersey Racing Commission.
He's been removed from his post and he's been indicted,
implicated in some of the wiretaps and some of the
(03:26):
stuff that goes back to the March of twenty twenty
huge horse racing scandal indictments. I think we're twenty or
twenty five people wish we're indicted and convicted I believe
the good majority I think of, not all of them.
So he was tied into that in different various roles.
(03:48):
So I think that's an important factor. And how exactly
that comes into play, well, if he was the director
of racing and control of that stuff, So there's factors
that go along with that, because obviously he was at
using counsel Eric Reid, uh that was the opposition in
my case. He was the lead counsel. And mister Reid's
(04:08):
been on record of stating some things that Thomas Sella
directed him directly to do and had given him information
which were false information that was part of the hearing.
So you know, I don't know, that's probably the only
cat and if I can give you as far as
that goes, I mean, we'll keep fighting it. I mean
it's it's a good case and we'll keep fighting it.
(04:28):
But it continues to lead into a lot of problems
that we talk about in racing. Is just no accountability.
And you know, I had dinner the other day with
a guy that's in a military, guy that's in security
that works for one of the main phone companies. So
it's interesting that you'll see this on television a lot.
They'll be someone it's committed up a crime or someone
(04:52):
that murders someone. They used the several towers to locate people,
you know, because your cell phone will hit certain towers,
and that's what he does. He's big into that's really
high tech. He's a friend. We had inner the other
day and we're talking. I'm always fascinated about, you know,
that part of law, and so he gave me a
really great story. He said that the judge in one
(05:14):
of his jurisdictions, he's a real tough guy and he's,
you know, kind of a guy that doesn't know holds
bart in his courtroom. Well, we all know we live
in a cell phone era. Everyone has one, I mean
where they're hooked on our hips. But one of the
rules in his courtroom is if yourself rings during here
during proceedings, you're obviously automatically in contempt of court and
(05:38):
the gabble comes down and you get hit with a
five hundred dollars fine. Well, in his courtroom, prosecutors as
their cell phone ranked yes, does he stop the trout? Yes?
Contempt of court? Five hundred dollars. Fine, it's happened to
the defense attorneys, it's happened to witnesses, it's happened to everybody.
I mean even people in the crowd are watching, you know.
(06:01):
As soon as a self and rings, immediately gabble comes
down five hundred dollars fine. So guess what happened one day?
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Well, I see Charlie may one as last start out.
What are the plans for Charlie nay?
Speaker 3 (06:17):
So let's let's finish this story real quick though. So
like the judge, his phone rings in the courtroom, and
when his phone rings, uh, he looked around at everybody,
and it's the moment of quietbody doesn't know. He pulls
out the gable, hits it. Five hundred dollars fine. I'm
in contempt for it. So, like, I think that's interesting
to notate. You know, in the real world, there's accountability
(06:40):
for everybody, and uh, you know, even judge finds himself.
So I think that's part of the first premise when
you talk about harness racing. We just we we don't,
you know, we don't policy ourselves, you know, in the
right way, you know. But Charlie may finished up the
year great this year he had he went there. I
was astonished to hear this back. He went that the
(07:02):
fastest half mile at a half mile track in the
history of harness racing so far. I did not realize
that he went to the half and fifty three at Delaware,
and I guess no horse had a half mile tracks
went that fast to the half. But he kept going.
He set the track record in stakes record forty nine flat.
Was a nice effort. Small field was only a field
of three, but he did go off second choice. There
(07:24):
was a horse in there that had been running pretty well,
and we drew inside of him and a big effort
horse ran good that day, and with that we gave
him a little bit of vagation. He got about three
four weeks in the field, he's gained about sixty pounds
and he is back. He just came back on Saturday,
back to the races or back to the track. So
still trained down for a couple of months, get his
(07:44):
feedback under him and be back to the races for sure.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Okay, well, you were racing out in Sciota. What did
you think of the miracle four miles out there of
one forty seven and below?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Yeah, that you know Danny actually is a personal friend
of mine and he drove Charlie Mayo's first win ever
in the next generation. I love Dan Noble, He's a
fantastic driver, good horseman. But with that said, I mean
that obviously that day at Siota, that was a very
anomaly kind of effort, and you know that drew some ire.
Now I'm also a due process guy, so I'm not
(08:19):
exactly sure what happens. I mean, the one thing that
most of us do can realize, almost like sunshine laws
in the real world. There's certain things that happen in
our sport where we take pause and we kind of
know that something's amiss here. So what is a miss
I don't know. I just know the horse that lowered
the All h track record, who's now the track record
holder at Syota forty six and four. I know a
(08:41):
week or two before that he was ten by multiple
links up in Canada, and then his race after that effort,
I believe he was eighth, ninth or tenth as well.
So like to sandwich out in the middle, obviously it's
a questionable effort. But I mean, I don't know, not
on the inside, but it appears in the uh, you
(09:03):
know the pillow talk that they removed him from, uh
maybe a smart slight band for a year or something.
Him and Christie from Sciota, and I think Miami Valley
and Dayton I think are falling along with that. I
don't know. Again, I'm strictly doing on what you know,
other folks may have said, and there's been nothing, no rulings,
(09:24):
no faster rulings or anything like that. But he did
show up at Northfield Park, and I'm happy for Danny
that he's got a place to race. And man, can
he drive. I've always said this guy's one of the
top drivers in the world. He's a horse whisper. There's
certain guys like Walter Case, Dan Noble, Deckster are done
that can just make certain horses really go, and he's
certainly somebody that can. But again, it bakes the question
(09:47):
like with with with Northfield, and it goes back to
what I just talked about with like the judge find
himself in the courtroom for what at some point in
time you have to sit around and say, Okay, well,
if we are banning someone, you know at city reciprocity
pretty much trust the board. So like it's just odd
(10:10):
that northfield is, you know, has let him race there.
And again I'm happy for him. I'm glad. I'm just
talking more of like a macro thing like that. You know,
this is one example of fifty Like it just never
seems like the true adjudication ever takes place, you know,
And I go back to another guy, Like, there's a
(10:30):
guy Trevor Bauer. Do you know who the name Trevor
Bauer is?
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Ready, Yeah, it sounds familiar.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Okay, So Trevor Bauer is a baseball pitcher. He was
signed by the Dodgers. One could easily surmise like the
Dodgers and Yankees, very big operations, very respectable operations, a
lot of history, a lot of a lot of great players,
great games, great success stories. Well, this guy pitched for him,
and I would tell you he's probably one of the
top five pitchers in baseball. Two three years ago when
(10:59):
he had an incident. One of his incidents didn't take
place on field till it took place off the field.
So I got himself. He's some sexual perversions, and he
got himself in a little pinch off the grid. And
I guess one could argue, well, hey, it wasn't at
work was the problem. But you know, the conduct policy
in Major League Baseball, most of their Major league sports, football, Basketball,
(11:20):
these integrity issues and you know, the guy had some files, uh,
some charges filed against them and some of the evidence
that came out. Uh, he got some domestic issues. So
guess what they did. Major League Baseball suspended him. Yes,
did the daughters released him. So it just goes to say, too,
(11:41):
is like, if you're gonna want to adjudicate stuff, uh,
you've got to do it across the board. You got
to have people in your own house handling that the
same way. So you know, again and he got in
great to see him race in Northfield, but again if Northfield,
you know, maybe maybe the real problem is here is
(12:02):
nobody wants to follow along and do stuff. And that's
kind of sad in the bigger scheme, but it tells
you the problem. But you know, Northfield's had problems in
the past. I've you know, I had these discussions and
actually turned those guys into the O High Racing Commission
for you know, basically fixing races. And part of the
why why would they fix races? Well, they have invitational
(12:22):
races and they invite multiple contestants from the same stable
in the race, and Stevie wonder does if you have
multiple horses in the same race, those trainers and drivers
are going to work together. They're on the same payroll.
So it's just it's and the fact that they don't
couple them in the wagering. If they couple them in
the wagering, I guess you could, you could find a
(12:42):
way to palot it. But when they're uncoupled and one
goes to the lead and the other one sits back
and then that other one circles around, it's it's just
not fair to racing. And you know Dave ban Coney
and Northfield Park have done that. I mentioned that years ago.
You think they would change that process. No, they do
not change. It's the same thing. And you know, it's
(13:03):
shame on them for you know, being the outlier, and
it questions the integrity. I mean, you know, if I'm
on the board of directors of MGM Casinos, I mean
I would have to look into the conduct up there
of the race secretary and the way they're putting races
together because they're defrauding the public. And one thing, I
go back to that word because when the judge originally
(13:26):
ruled into Charlie May case one of the big things
for him. He wasn't as much.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Worried about me.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
But what he did state is he said the people
of New Jersey and the residents of his state were
affected by the takedown of Charlie May that day because
they wager on the races and those wagers. We expect
those races to be adjudicated properly and fair, And that
was his big bone of contention. So like people are
(13:53):
wagering at Norfield Park, on these races where they have
multiple entries, people are wagering, and you know, he's not
protecting the state, the people that live in the state
of Ohio that wager on those races, and even more
so the people that wager them all over the US.
I mean, they have wagering. I think they have a
(14:13):
decent handle at Northfield. So again, it's the product and
it's a shame. You know. Jason Roth, the race secretary
side of Downs, I love him. I think he's a
fantastic guy. And you know, I don't agree with him
all the time. We've butted heads the time. So you know,
myself and Jason talked about this and he said, Yeah,
in an invitational race, you can't invite multiple trainers from
(14:36):
the same outfit the race and the race. It's just
not fair. It's not fair of the contestants, it's not
fair of the wagering public. So he gets it, but
other people don't. And that's just there's no uniformity of rules.
And you know, part of the issue here is is
like in major league sports, respectable sports, you know, the
(14:57):
owners and stuff that they get it. They understand like, hey,
my guy messed up. He's gonna get fined, he's going
to get suspended. It's just the nature of the beast,
you know. And I hate to dig up an old wound.
But we go back to the March of twenty twenty indictments,
and most of those indictments focused around Seth Fishman. He
was one of the main kingpins that had been supplying
(15:18):
illegal drugs and a lot of people bought those drugs.
And you know, there's a list that's been on the
internet in different places that have stated these are the
purchasers and but a lot of those people.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
That don you're what scratchy there, Yeah, that's.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
I'm turning this off. There you go, Sorry about that
my earpiece kickback on a lot of the people. You
hear me good? Now, Yeah, So a lot of the
people that had purchased those drugs on those lists, And
I'm not talking about one off, so I'm talking about
people that have bought for numerous periods of time. Like
(16:01):
you know, were they tried and convicted? No, I did
hear rumblings from my attorney. I think that said that said,
they probably could have indicted hundreds of people, but they
had to pick the main players, and I think they
used probably some of the other people that had purchased
as people to testify against them. I get all that,
but it goes back to a few good men. Like
(16:22):
in a Few Good Men for people who don't know
the movie, there was two military guys, two Marines, that
conducted a code read, which was basically a way of
internally hazing another soldier who was a substandard soldier. No,
they did that, and then they went to trial because
when they did, you know, kind of rough the guy up.
(16:43):
He actually died of asphixiation. So the guy died. They're
on trial for murder, and they find out that the colonel,
Colonel Jessop ordered the code red he was the one
that ordered it. So once they found that out, you know,
Colonel Jessop got in trouble and they let the two
guys off for murder charges, but they both still got
(17:04):
this honorably discharged, and they still got kicked out of
the Marine Corps. So it goes to the same thing.
I mean, the guys on that list that have bought drugs,
and I mean the commission still haven't done anything. There's
a few here there that are doing some stuff, and
I think there's a new one now where I think
(17:24):
one of the guys recently, he's in the news. I
think he's getting kicked out of a lot of places
from this. But it shouldn't be that hard, Like the commissions,
all the information's been there. That's what the crazy part
is is like my attorney had this information years ago.
All you got to do is get in a pacer
account and you got the USTA, you got the racing
commissions that look the other way. And personally, I think
(17:48):
the reason they look the other way is because it
indicts and it causes harm for some of their contestants
and trainers. And it's just sad again because that's part
of the problem. Is like, there's no accountability, no integrity,
and and uh.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
They should have time, they should have fixed this problem
years ago. And what they've done is they've created their
own problem because they've forced people, in order to make
a living to train and race horses. They forced them
to go out to cheat, to go against the cheaters
that are cheating. And it's a it's a major problem.
Where you know, what do you do? Do you either
(18:24):
you either join them where you get out of the business,
and most people got out of the business.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Yeah, and I've said this before. I've been pretty adam
it myself. Is I'm I'm in the camp where, you know,
all I have is a new baby every year. I
don't really buy any yearlings. I don't do anything anymore.
And and I don't wager, you know. And Bob Bob
Marx was one of the guys that kind of enlightened
me about this years ago. He's like, I don't bet
on racing for these reasons. Well, I don't know racing
(18:51):
since I mean, anybody that harness you got really looking
mirror because it's not a level playing field. And from
the judge just in the stand to the commission to
you know, the follies that are going on, like how
can you bet on the sport? And again, if you're
not betting on a sport, you're not attending it. What's
the future have in the sport? You know what I mean?
(19:12):
It just doesn't have It doesn't have a big future,
you know, for all this stuff, it does not have
a big future. So okay, at all parts of you
know where we're at.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
So okay, here's my last question for you. You wake
up in the morning and you find that you're now
the cizarre of harness ration.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
What's the first thing you're going to do?
Speaker 3 (19:34):
I think like the Elliot Nes movie, it was my
favorite thing. I can't remember the name of it. But
when they had component on the uh, they were they
were charging him, and the judge was there and the
jury was there, and they realized that the jury was tainted.
What they did is the judge said, go down the
hall and get that jury and bring them in here
and take all them down there. That's what has to happen.
(19:56):
You've got to take every single person out of all
the missions like you do. You sweep every single guy
in a commission and they're gone overnight, and then you
go to the race secretaries and you sweep every single
one of them and they're gone. Uh. And then you
start over. You put people in the commissions that are
just regular judges and juries and people that adjudicate to
(20:19):
the rules, and then you go to the racing commissions
at each individual track and those guys become independent people
that follow a condition book and follow a set of rules,
and that's it. It's an instant fix. You've got a
better product. You've got a better product to wage you're on.
And I mean, I don't want to get as crass
as what they do in Saudi Arabia, but I have
friends that go over there and when they're traveling, they're like,
(20:42):
it's the safest place in the world because if you
get caught stealing, they cut your hand off. If you
murder someone, you get murdered. So like, you have to
have accountability. And I think, if I'm the bizarre, that's
what I do. And if you start over, you give
horse racing a chance. But on the trajectory is now
it's just continuing to head to wrong path. And unfortunately,
even with the one armed bandits, with all these casinos
(21:04):
owning the racetracks, they want you to wager on casinos.
They don't want you to wager on the racetrack anyway.
So eventually, you know, when no one wages on it,
no one watches it, it becomes extinct. And that's that's
the direction we're going.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Well, the couple one's going to be big, and d
couple one's around the corner.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Now let's finish on a good note. Let's finish on
a goat like it's exciting. Man, we got we do
for those that are still in the game that we
do have Harrisburg coming up. Like I said, these Breeders
crown next couple of weeks. It's always fun. I mean,
those are a year end championships and it's a time
to be excited about the sport as much as you can.
I have a new baby every year that I from
(21:44):
a stipple hannover. How much longer breeder to three, five,
seven years? I have no idea, but the two year
old that are the yearling that I have is that
down by the seaside, Philly real excited about her at
the farm and I scold her to two guys, Ray
France and Bill Thurston. These guys are now in the game.
One of them owned a horse before the other have.
(22:06):
They're very, very exciting, and you know, they asked me
to stay in for a border, which I did, no problem.
It's fine. I'm still with them, but sold divorce to
them and we got new owners in the game. So
I continue to do my little part to try to
promote the sport, do what I can, and it's exciting
(22:27):
for them. I would like to hear you.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Know that we got dearly skales.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
That just happened. A guy like Ryan'talvin reached out to me,
asked me if I was interested in buying some a
couple of horses the Buckeye. I politely declined, but it's
nice to see guys reaching out. It's nice to see
people trying to, you know, continue to grow the sport
from the inside the best we can. I'm not gonna
quit being an ambassador. I'm going to keep doing what
I can to keep things going. And sometimes I hope
(22:52):
sometimes these these words of wisdom that we say, some
people in the right positions finally roll over and say, yeah,
we got to make some chances and fixed things. So
that's always the hope. But you know, I plan on
bringing back Charlie may at age eight next year for
some racing. And you know next year the Breeder's crown
is that Pioto downs, So it would be a dream
(23:13):
if we could get him healthy and still competing at
that level to be in the race next year when
loser draw. Would be fun to be able to race
in his home track and a breeders crown next year,
So lots of excitement.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Friday, Freddy Don I want to thank you so much
for joining us today.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
This week's Harness Racing Alumni Show is brought to you
by Hunterton Farm, selling their consignments at the Harrisburg Sale
November three through the seventh. For more information, visit Huntertonfarm
dot com. The Metal Lands Racetrack visit play Metalalands dot com. Also,
(23:50):
we are looking for sponsors for the upcoming October release
of the Bill o'donald Tribute. Sponsorships available visit us trots
dot that's a wrap for this week's show. Thanks for listening,
and please join us again next week
Speaker 2 (24:08):
The Honest Racing Alumni Show
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