September 26, 2024 • 39 mins
FREEHOLD RACEWAY CLOSING UPDATE......!!! On this week's Harness Racing Alumni Show, Freddie, Trade and Bob are joined by Hall of Fame Journalist, John Berry. He interviews former New Jersey Standardbred Owner Associations President, Tommy Luchento, retired driver & trainer, Donny Dancer and former Freehold Raceway PR Director Steve Wolf. It’s an interesting discussion about the recent announcement by Penn Entertainment of the planned closure of Americas oldest and historical harness racing track, Freehold Raceway. Also featured is Andy Cohens weekly “Keeping Pace Update.” All on this week's broadcast.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to this week's Harness Racing Alumni Show. I'm Freddie
Hudson and I'm here today with Trade Martin, Bob Marx,
and Andy Cohen. The Harness Racing Alumni Show is the
number one Harness Racing podcast in North America. We have
sponsorships and advertising spots available. For more information, email r
Trodden at outlook dot com, our visit us trots dot com.
(00:24):
The statements and opinions of our guests are their personal
opinions and beliefs, and it does not necessarily represent the
opinions of The Harness Racing Alumni Show or of its host.
The Harness Racing Alumni Show with your host Freddy Hudson
and Trade Martin. On this week's special broadcast, Hall of
(00:47):
Famer and this week's host, John Berry discusses the recent
announcement of the closing a Freehold Raceway with former New
Jersey Standardbird Owners' Association's president Tom Decento, retired drug trainer
and now judge, Donny Dancer, and longtime Free Whole publicity
director Steve Wolfe. Over to you, John, Well, thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
It's an honor for me to be on the broadcast
which sets wonderful, wonderful folks. Donnie Dancer, you know, four
twenty eight wins and twenty seven million in perse earnings,
and this was in an era when that was really something.
And of course Tommy Lucento one of the star warts
(01:31):
of the of the game for New Jersey. And it's
great to be with tom that's for sure. And had
a great restaurant too that I enjoyed so much. And
Steve walk the backbone of so many places, including Harness
linked to this very day, and I enjoy Steve so much,
and he does so much for the industry. And we're
(01:51):
here on kind of a somber occasion as Freehold has
announced that they're going to be closing their doors as
of the end of the year. And when they when
they closed a sports book couple of weeks ago, I
thought that was a little joke, kind of a minor earthquake,
and then when the second part there was a real earthquake,
kind of a seven point zero uh magnitude earthquake. And
(02:15):
you know they're caused by faults, and I'm wondering if
any of you might have an idea of who's at
fault in this decision to close Freehold Raceway.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Well, if you want to ask for someone specific to
talk first, go ahead, John.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Okay, Tom, You've been You've been forward for so long,
and uh, did you see this coming at all?
Speaker 3 (02:42):
I kind of did, you know. I follow it along
and I've watched, you know, for the longest time. They
never put any money into the place. They were letting
it run down. It was just a matter of I
really believe in that in the heart of hearts, they
were trying to get rid of the horses which they
couldn't and have and have the book. The sports were
booked there at the same time without having live racing
(03:06):
thanks to Ronnie Dancer, so when we had put that together,
so I think that they were holding out, holding out.
So I think one of the moves that they made
was to stop with the sports book first, pull it out,
and maybe they thought the horsemen may fold or may
not fold or whatever when they saw that wasn't happening,
(03:27):
and they had other thoughts in their mind. To my knowledge,
they offered the place to a couple of sports gaming
operations and none of them did. So what I'm thinking
now is they probably have somebody on the hook to
redevelop the place. But that being said, I don't know
(03:48):
that the town's going to go along with redevelopment. Part
of the racetrack is historical, not the new part since
the fire, but I think they've gotten around that already. Know. Still,
if the town's going to okay them to sell to
somebody else, they're certainly not going to sit on it,
you know. I mean, it's just too much money involved.
(04:09):
It's not good for any outlet stores or anything. You
got them all right across the street, which is not
doing as good as it should. So I would think
that only a developer would be interested, and as they
could get a test, that's their plan, I believe, So
I'll turn it over to somebody else. I might have
a different idea.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Well, it's to me it's a shame. The historical aspect
of freeo goes back to eighteen fifty three, and then
there's some evidence that racing was in the eighteen thirties
as well, and with the World Champion racing there, and
my goodness, some of the Dancer events were there of course,
and of course Donald Dancer, you're with us today and
(04:50):
there was no better family.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
For this sport than your family, Thank you.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Yeah, we'll miss it, that's right.
Speaker 5 (04:59):
Yeah, of course, tell us your thoughts about it. It
still hasn't set in totally a little bit. It's definitely
a shock, you know to me, and I honestly think
like my father, he pretty well said something to me
at one time once that they changed my grandfather's race.
(05:24):
That was on Labor Day. They changed that race. He said,
that's the beginning of the end. And I says, what
are you talking about, you know, and he says, you'll
see out there, like really and he said yeah, and
he's still the future.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
That didn't look good, you.
Speaker 6 (05:42):
Know, he really did. And he said, so many businesses
have a.
Speaker 5 (05:46):
Very good twenty five years, and after twenty five years
is over, he says, a business is lucky to survive,
and our business has certainly lasted longer. So it's you know,
when you think about it, mister Fisher owning the track
and the things that he tried.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
To do there.
Speaker 5 (06:04):
And I always heard that whoever owned the track always
made money.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
So it's a shock to me that.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
I don't know if they weren't getting along or what
it was. The two partners into the track, the two
you know, corporations that own it, they weren't getting along.
As something I heard. I just hope somebody steps up
and you know, buys interest into the track and tries
to revive it.
Speaker 6 (06:29):
That's what I'm hoping happens.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Yeah, right, I think that Donald's right there. I think
the two owners were fighting. They both didn't want it,
but they didn't want to sell it to the other one.
And just to add again, I think the only historical
parts is the racetrack itself, the oval now at this
(06:54):
point in time, and whether they got passed that or not,
I don't know. But there are areas all round and
the land across the street that they could develop, which
makes me think that that's what that's the way they
act thinking. So anybody else can add whatever, Well, I'll
tell you it.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
It spreads far and wide, not only to the racing
and the horsemen and the veterinarians and the judges and
everybody else, but to the businesses around it that have
been uh well, they've been benefiting for it for one
hundred years, and now that kind of goes away. Fels
it's a historic city and then this race track helped
(07:35):
make it historic city.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Right, I have a feeling I am a feeling that
the town is on off side. But how far that
they can take it, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
You know, every time I see a race renamed or changed,
we have so much history and so like when the
Meatal Lands change in that ray the winner of the
first Hamiltonian and they changed that name, and then the
missletel Shall League and.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
Change that name.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
You can always add history, and it's not right to
take history away from an industry that has such a
rich history.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
And every time I see it kind of makes me cringe,
you know, yes, absolutely, yeah, DV.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Hey JB.
Speaker 7 (08:33):
My feeling is. And I work at Freehold raceally for
ten great years, you know, after the fire, when the
new track opened, and we had permission because of the ownership,
whether it was the Wilmont family or and then Ken Fisher,
but we had permission to make the track as best
(08:57):
as we could, and we brought that grand circuit racing,
and we brought back free admission and eventually free parking,
and and and it all was forretty good. I mean,
we made millions of dollars every year, and every year
that Ken Fisher owned the property, we would put million
(09:20):
dollars in his coffer and in return he understood the
value of marketing and publicity and let us do everything
we can and it worked. And then the minute they
got rid of everyone in the casino company took over,
they cut their profit margin, you.
Speaker 6 (09:39):
Know, dramatically, and it's just, you know, it just brought
it in where.
Speaker 7 (09:46):
People weren't coming anymore. Where there used to be thousands
of people every day coming the Freehold six days a week,
and that.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Was before.
Speaker 7 (09:56):
That was just with simulcassing. There was no sports but
as soon as Freehold book but almost two years that
opened their sports book, you knew at that point there
had to be some problem going on here. I mean,
Montt Park opened the next day, the Meadowlands opened two
days later. Once sports book wagering was passed, but not
(10:19):
Freehold and their management there. Whether they wanted a financial
tax write off or whatever for the rest of the
ten gaming companies, I don't know. But if you don't,
you know, spend money on marketing and advertising, then people
aren't going to know and they're not going to want
to come out. And that's what's happened over the last
twenty four years, and every single year they just continue
(10:43):
to lose money.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
I have a question go ahead, I'm sorry, go ahead, good,
But I just wanted to say that how did they
fold up their book when they were betting more than
momot Talk on sports razoring Mom and Talk's doing well.
You know, there's had to be a plan in their mind.
Whatever their plan is obviously probably to develop it and
(11:08):
get rid of their partnership and break it up. I
just don't understand. There are so many things they can do.
I mean even you know, just one of the stupid
things is that they have a card game that they
run at parks and it's loaded all the time. They
could have added that to it. They could have made
a better room, a nicer conditions. The place in plain
(11:29):
English is an asshole, you know, I mean it really is.
I mean, they don't cut the grass, they don't do anything.
They just let it run down. I don't think they
spent two cents and to it since they got it.
The elevators always the escalators always broken. All the people
go over there, they have to walk up the stairs.
They can't do it, you know, I just don't get it.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yeah, And the excuse that they don't have enough money
to do it and they let it run down. I
think that's very lame because uh, many of the casino facilities,
they pour millions and millions of dollars into it, and
if they did the same thing with with our industry,
it absolutely could have survived.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
And it bothers me greatly that they that they're let
giving it the neglect that they are.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Oh h yeah, they've got a plan. I don't know
what their plan is. What they've got one, Well, I think.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
It could spread all over the country once they see
that they can get rid of uh. You know, look
what happened in Florida when the governor signed the UH
decoupling bill without voter approval, and the voters were the
ones who broke brought the casinos in and voted them in.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
And this guy he just said, well, let's he must.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
I'm sure that there were political dollars that involved there,
but uh but and that took pomp ando And you know,
once once the fires starts and it spreads, who knows.
Speaker 6 (13:02):
What's going to happen in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
You know, you know, we all know that Kentucky's okay,
in Ohio's okay for now, but look what happened in Illinois.
They're having situations. I think parts of New York might
be a little bit hippy as well. And the industry, yes, yes,
we're on crutches, there's no doubt about it. But that
was the deal to ensure the integrity and the continuation
(13:27):
of racing, with the stipulation that they could build their
at casino might cost them fifteen million dollars a year
for racing, but isn't that worth it to make one
hundred and fifty million dollars a year with a casino?
Speaker 3 (13:39):
I say, yeah, Well, you go over this, you ultimately
may see in the near and that maybe not the
near future, but you may see three tracks in the country,
one on the East coast, one on the midwest, and
one on the West coast. And I'm not so sure
about the West coast. I mean, we talked about that
years ago, that that could possibly happen, right, you know,
(14:01):
if they keep squeezing these little tracks out. You know, actually,
in reality, we've talked about this a number of times.
We needed a tsar in this racing industry. We don't
need Hissa, but we need a czar like baseball and
football and what have you, where we could really get
behind the person and and and we could have really
probably fought this thing off a little bit better than
(14:23):
we have. We're scattered, and when you're scattered, you know,
you don't have the the the might to take care
of it, you know, or to go against them.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
They differ articles about the need for a commissioners, no
doubt about it.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Hey, tom, Hey, Tommy Freddy here, do you think that
there's any chance for someone to step in and take
over Freehold for racing or do you think that the
dates would end up being moved over to the meadow lands.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
I thought that one of the possibilities. I'll answer the
two questions as I if I might. I think one
of the possibilities if they take that money that Freehold's losing, okay,
and it goes some of it, all of it. Some
of it goes to breeders awards, this and that and
what have you. But whatever Jeff is gonna get, and
he's gonna end up getting it, okay, he should put
(15:15):
on an extra day, such as a Thursday for the
lower class horses that would come from Freehold or whatever,
you know, from maybe fifteen thousand claimers down or what
have you. And he may not like that because he
may not make money keeping his plant open by giving
them money to the horseman. But I think that's the
right thing to do, and I think that's probably one
of the things he should do. What was your other question,
(15:38):
I'm sorry, just someone taking over, somebody taking it over,
somebody taking it over unless they have supplements, you know,
enough to keep them going. Nobody's gonna nobody's gonna jump
in and take it. Although they get the property with it.
If they tell just take the license, that's not enough
to entice somebody. They need to have something, you know,
(16:02):
to look on in case they fail, which would be
the property. But there's always a chance to sell that.
You could get somebody together to get it. Tommy Ceople fear. Uh.
Speaker 7 (16:15):
The two otbs that Freeholme has, would they be able
to continue running or would they have to close too?
Speaker 3 (16:23):
I would now, I think. I don't know. If they've
hooked into with with Mamma Park has their own I believe,
But the two otbs, I don't know, what would you know?
They could take other tracks, of course, so they may
stay open for that, you know, Simon, as you know
(16:43):
the other tracks, you know, But I don't know. I
don't know who actually has control of them.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
But didn't they let all their employees go though, so
no one would be able to do the best.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Yeah, well, question, they'd have to rehire if somebody would
take it over. See in Momma and Fox's case, Dennis
Dresen I think has control and ownership if Mommat Park
would have closed. There are two. I think he's involved
in two of them. Hillsborough is one of them. They
go to him his own personal corporation.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Okay, okay, hey Dinnie, did you want to jump in here.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Now?
Speaker 5 (17:26):
Just that at one time we had heard that for him,
maybe it was going to close, you know, I'd say
a year and a half ago, maybe that there was
a member that they were going to sell off where
they had parking of the cars heading to the ran
the last turn over in that area, and they're filling
up with these car lots like a car lot. So
(17:50):
and a couple of the people we talked to Barbara
Matthews about having them trying to make the track an
historic track. So then we had a meeting with the
Freehold Borough because it came under the Freehold Borough. And
so we went into the meeting and I brought pictures
and memorabilia from racing there.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
I was there.
Speaker 5 (18:13):
Ray Baines came with me and his girlfriend and we
went through the meeting and they sounded very interested to
try to make an unhistoric site.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
And then the bottom line.
Speaker 5 (18:26):
At the end of the meeting was that they thought
they should have Freehole Township involved in the decision making.
So the next move was that we were supposed to
have a meeting with the borough and Freehole Township, and
that meeting never happened. So my knowledge, I don't think
that it's all an historic site. But I also found
(18:47):
out even if it was, that they may be able
to get around that, so I think they already have done. Yeah,
you know, I heard what you said, and you know,
I was hoping that that would really put us, you know,
damper on because I thought that that's would have maybe
say Groosevelt Raceway. And now I hear this that even
they could get around it.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Please, you know, what can you do? You needed? Well,
I wonder how they can handle all this new development
in the borough there. I mean, they can't have all
these the schools will be overcrowded. They just I don't
know how they possibly could handle it. That's why I
think the town would probably be on our side. You know,
(19:32):
you can't flood the town with all these townhouses whatever.
They can't afford it. And all the all the the
the the immigrants that are coming in, you know, I
mean they the Freehold. If you go into Freeold now
it's like New Mexico. You know, you hardly see any
anything else. But the Spanish people are running. You know,
(19:53):
they're okay, they haven't cause any problems, but I don't
think they can handle it.
Speaker 5 (19:58):
And for the borough, you know, fruit Ferial Township. You
see they have the horse period of time where they
have the statues of the horses.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
All over the place.
Speaker 5 (20:07):
I mean, they seem to be very pathetic with love
and racing and understand the rich history of horse racing there.
And they really sounded like they wanted to do it,
you know, but I think that they were trying to
check the laws to see what could be done. But
like I said, if you can get around it anyway,
you know, what can you do? I think it would
just be in a die.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Hindsight is always you know, it's just something that we
should have been on this a long time ago, really
pushing hard. Everybody but the horsemen that tend to lay back,
you know, everybody, I'm not just pointing, but we probably
could have maybe got something done at that time. The
way I look at it is if a sports book
(20:51):
doesn't come in there and take it, then we don't
have a chance. Then it's just going to either be
redeveloped or I don't know what use they could do it,
but I think a sports book could make it if
they made it really nice and fixed it up, spend
some money, because I think they could buy this place
at a fire sale now, you know, so that money
that they could save in buying it, they could use
(21:13):
it redeveloping it, fixing it up, really making it nice,
put a real good restaurant, and put a real nice
place for people to go in and bet sports and simulcast.
And I think that's that's the only chance we have.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
I have a suggestion for the restaurant, that's for sure. Hey, listen,
I have one question, though, I'm looking at the repercussions
of this really having a having a detrimental effect. You know,
these tracks are closing, and I'm not sure that we
(21:49):
aren't going to have a crash in yearling prices when
there's just not enough racing opportunities in the future to
sustain the number of foals.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
And if they're going one fifty and earning nothing, you know,
and it's happening today.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
They're allowed horses, they are going one to fifty and
four claimers going fifty two.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
Or three, and they're they're they're they're not making a dime.
And I'm just hoping that I'm just hoping that it
doesn't crash.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
In the year market. Well, you know, if you have
a thought, I want, well, I want somebody to tell
me on this conversation how the people are freehold are
making it now with the expenses of blacksmiths of sky High,
the veterinarians of sky High, they pay for shipping. The
grooms now want X amount of dollars that are you know,
(22:39):
very high to go to the paddock. I don't know
how they make it unless the guy does everything himself, trains,
drives grooms, you know, the whole thing. And I still
don't know how he can make it. And I don't
know how you could get onus to put up money,
you know, to do it, unless they can really build
it up to something, you know, where they get more money.
(23:02):
You know, first of all. I don't think Freo is
getting their first aare of the money anyway that's coming
from the state. There's I think there's ten ten million
dollars they get or whatever it is six and I
forget they've changed it now to split and I think
Jeff gets the majority. I think Friel only gets about
a million and a half dollars.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Yeah, ye, top Tommy Freddy here getting back to like
you know what you're what you just said, like about
the costs, you know, like if you and me went
back to training horses, we couldn't do it.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
I couldn't get that, absolutely not.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
And you couldn't pay me enough money to train horses again, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Without a doubt. You couldn't even entertain the thought. But
these guys were stuck into it, now, you know. I
mean they gradually caught up to them. They were just
racing along. We got out, you know, but but for
other reasons. But now you know this stuck. I feel
terrible for the horsemen. I don't know what they're going
(24:03):
to do, you know, unless they can consolidate the tables,
get a couple of good horses, erase them at the
Midlands rather than have ben bad ones or I shouldn't
say bad, but less a quality, right.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
I think we're going to run out of employees and
people before we run out of racetracks. John, you've been
doing a lot of the background check on your upcoming drivers.
How many are under thirty?
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Right now?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
About one and a half percent of the drivers are
under thirty years old. I think they're close to three
nine hundred and something and I believe there are fifty
one or fifty two drivers under the age of thirty.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
What about the bet is how old today? That's what
I need to escalate it there.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Hey, listen, I just hosted I just hosted a thing
at in a simulcast venue here in Florida. And of
the I think there were seven hundred and the count
was seven hundred and forty and I think there were
like three or four that were under the age of forty.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
That's it.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
All of the other one sixty five, seventy five, eighty ninety.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
You know, I mean a man, you're living long lives.
But when we when we lose them, we've we've lost
for good. We aren't replacing them.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
Like my friends and they sat her said, he said.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Every every year we have new folds that come around,
and now we need new fools to bet on the
new folds.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Well, I asked them. I knew something was wrong when
I told them you got to fix the escalator. Most
of these people that are coming in here in the daytime,
they can't get up those stairs. They need the escalator. Well,
we can't afford it. It was like thirty six thousand
dollars or something. He said, to fix it. If you can't,
then then I said, something's wrong here. You know. They
just don't want to spend.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
That kind of reminds me of Lawrence Cater when they
when Roosevelt Raceway was on the way out. He said,
fix the carpet and fix the carpeting, and they said.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
No, Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 5 (26:15):
I had some family members coming here on my wife's end,
and they were coming to visit, and I was looking
for somewhere to take them out to dinner, to have
a nice lunch or dinner brunch, and I suggested free
whole Raceway. I said, why don't we do that, Why
don't we have a race named after them? And you know,
(26:36):
I have to make a big deal about it and
have dinner there or lunch and see what they say.
So it was going to be a party of about
twenty some people. Okay, I called to make a reservation.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
They couldn't do it. They said that they.
Speaker 5 (26:49):
Didn't they already had one party that day and they
couldn't include another way. And I said what and they said, no,
we don't have the help to do it. But then
I didn't accept that, So then I talked to Karen
fact Ern. Then I talked to Bruno, the general manager,
and I got They said they hated to turn down
(27:10):
the business, but they said, we just don't have enough people,
but we're going to try to find somebody. So then
then they called me back and they still weren't able
to do it because they couldn't doesn't have the help.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
In order to do it. Well, they only have one keller.
They got one killer run one. If you don't play
the machines, and a lot of the old people don't
understand the machines, so you're losing out there. I mean,
I you know, I don't know. They just didn't give
a damn. That's a big problem.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
I guess that sort of sums it up about Freehold.
They just didn't give a damn.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Yeah, I don't I just don't understand it. I don't know.
Speaker 5 (27:50):
I know you had out if you could run any
business like that and turn away business when you got
people trying to give you business.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
So you know, I would say that we could get together,
you know, and get a big contingency and go see
the governor and talk to them about it. But I
think the governors on their side, I mean, you know
they're talking now. I understand that, and Freehol wouldn't be
part of it, but that they may come out with casinos,
gambling at the metal Lands and Mormont Park, not at
(28:22):
Marris Barey from resources involved at Marmont Park in a
big way, all of a sudden they have a chance.
And so I don't know that the governor's talking about
possibly doing it, you know, because he's getting out, so
you know, on his way out, who knows what's gonna happen,
you know, But that could be a game changer. Yeah,
(28:44):
I mean, but I don't think Freeho would have gotten
it anyway. You know, they would have bypassed them. Momont
would have ganged up on them, Jeff A. Tree Old anyway,
So you know, no one else the cubs that he's
money that you know, they were supposed to be getting
and where that would go to? Frio?
Speaker 6 (29:03):
I thought that that would then the track goes to
the middle els, it goes to the medal.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
Yeah, I would think so, and and but a lot
of that goes and like I said, breeders awards or
programs that they have or such. But most of it
would go to Jeff. You know, he'd take that right up,
because that money is allotted to the to the industry itself,
Mom and Plock gets half and harness Racing gets the
(29:30):
other half, and out of out of the harness Racing half,
Jeff gets most of it, and about a million and
a half dollars goes to Freil. I don't know the
exact number, but that's close enough.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Right Tommy Freddy here ye? Would it be your one
day of racing like Thursday at the Meadowlands to pick
up the free host slack?
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Would that be enough?
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Or would they need two days and possibly do it
like a Sunday and then Monday in the afternoons versus
doing it in the evening so that they don't have
to turn the lights on.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
You Well, what you're gonna that sounds okay to me,
But what you're gonna what's gonna happen is he's gonna
come at you with nobody's gonna come and bet on him.
And I got to keep my plant open, I got
to keep the employees on, I got to do this
and that. And it's going to eat up that money
that's supposed to go to persons. Uh, that's what he's
gonna come at you with. But that's a good idea.
(30:25):
That's a very good idea because he's the horseman.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yeah, and basically, if you can't save a freehold, go ahead. Yeah,
it could save racing in New Jersey and the bigger picture.
And we also, you know, we haven't discussed out how
the crows and the freehold is going to affect the
breeding industry in New Jersey. They could take a big
hit on this absolutely.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
You know, the prices have been up at the sales,
but they got about them out now. I mean, when
they they start, people start getting shaky, they start seeing
tracks closing and this and that. But if you can,
I think that's our only avenue is to try to
force Jeff to put on some races for these guys
so they're not out of business, they're not gone, they're
not gonna starve. They can continue to race. You know,
(31:15):
it'll be a little more expensive to ship the horses up, but.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
That are more expensive and you have a shout of
making some money than nothing.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
I think that's the only way we can save these horsemen.
And that's my my, you know my thoughts, you know,
save the horsemen. If you can't save the track, you've
got to save these guys, you know, the blacksmiths, the veterinarians.
I mean, all right, they make their money, but what
are they going to shoot now? If freeo goes out
and these horses leave, and then you know, we always
(31:48):
needed a place where the when a horse is not
good enough anymore at the metal ends, they would have
freehold to go to. You know they don't have that now.
That's going to affec even the good horses. M hm
and the sales.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Steve, you've an awfu quiet.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
That's well.
Speaker 7 (32:10):
I've been listening to everything, and and and and and
Tommy's told uh a lot that I would just reflect on.
I mean, look if the historic significance or or land site, uh,
because I know the historical society doesn't listened to anything
for actual freehold raceway, but uh, the idea of the
(32:33):
historic is out of there, then then the next best
hope is going to be the the township and and
the UH and and freehold proper.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Uh.
Speaker 7 (32:42):
You have to make life miserable for them trying to
sell it or do something with the property. I mean, well,
but if they keep it in the same hands, it's
not going to get any better. And that that's my suggestion.
My suggestion is if we can't get the racetrackle, we
need to get a meeting with Jeff asap. And you know,
(33:07):
I certainly want to be at that meeting.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
You know, if we call it, I mean, the SBOA
is fine, bring them in also if they want to
come up, you know, and I'm sure they will, but
I want to be at that meeting. I have a
good relationship with Jeff. And you know, I'm the one
who told them to end up buying the racetrack to
begin with. You know, I called them up the day
before they were going to close freehold and the middle
(33:29):
ends excuse me, And he used to blame me all
the time every time he saw me. You made me
buy this place, and I'm losing on then when he
got the sports rangering, Oh he's a happy camper. Now
he doesn't say anything anymore. So that's my suggestion. We
ought to get together. Freddie, if you want to try
and ask Jeff if he wants to have a meeting
(33:50):
with us about this, I wouldn't get too involved because
he mean Nick's you're right off the bat, you know.
Just tell him we need to have a meeting and
talk to you about what's going on. And you know
you you proossibly are going to get money from Freehold.
We need to have a say in this.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Okay, I'll work I'll work on that, no problems.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
Or if you want me to talk to to uh
Mark thought about it about him approaching him, Well, I'll
approach him myself.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
And now you don't have any more rabbits up your sleeve.
You saved them the Meadowlands. No one just no, no
rabbit up your sleeve to save Freehold.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
Well, I hope, I hope I can help. I really do.
I'm really I'm really really heartbroken over this for the
horsemen themselves, and of course seeing free Or Raceway, the
oldest racetrack in the country going out of business. The
nostalgia involved there is off the.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Charts, but it's a piece of our history, you know, Tommy, you, myself, Steve, Donnie,
we all raced the Freehold and I always enjoyed it.
Where what was it called the afternoon de Light?
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Yeah, great place, great great place. It didn't happen that was.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Let me ask one Let me ask one question here. Uh,
why can't the racing commissions who give these or whoever
gives these licenses out come up with an ironclad agreement saying, Hey,
you wanted to get a casino in here, you want this,
you want that, you want this, but you have to
(35:24):
guarantee there's no getting out of it.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
You know.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
You can't say you can't say you're going to throw it,
throw it away like like a foreclaimer when he's done racing.
Speaker 4 (35:34):
You can't just throw put it in the kill ten.
And they put they put Behold in the kill ten.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
I still have some connections in Trenton that we could
put a little pressure on them about that. Yeah, you know,
I agree, that would have been a great and they
paid the money for the bonds to buy the track.
That would have I'm just glad this didn't. I'm good
this hadn't happened with me and you were racing, Donnie.
(36:03):
I wouldn't know what to do with that time.
Speaker 5 (36:06):
No, it's really heartbreaking, like you say, And to think
about so many families that are involved and been involved
with racing and grew up there. I remember when they
had the barn area and the kids were growing up there,
you know, and us I was going, I was a kid, grandstand.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
My grandfather used to sneak me into the track, you know,
and it's.
Speaker 6 (36:29):
Foxy, I mean, like we got. And I see so
many other people like that.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
And that's what I think of.
Speaker 8 (36:35):
About the families that grew up around racing, and that's
what you needed to do in order to I think
about the Indian with the tear in his eyes. That's
you're right, that's what I think about. Yeah, it's just
like I think we ought to get a meeting. I
think ahead.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
I'm sorry, perhaps absolutely, do you.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
Want to work on that, go ahead, and if you
need my help, I'll be happy to jump right in
with you, okay.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
And one of the other things I'm going to point
out that I have seen since I've been doing a
lot of work in Washington, DC is a lot of
times bills that get passed by one group of politicians,
like ten fifteen years ago. Will new politicians come in
and they pretty much delete what the other politicians have done,
or they change the legislation around it. You see that
(37:30):
going on in Pennsylvania right now, especially with horse racing.
Speaker 4 (37:35):
Very tough to fight political dollars.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
I know, but I say I still have a few
connections in Trenton since who I was when I was
with the SBOA. I can help you a little bit there.
Give me your shot. I've got to jump off now
because I got a doctor's appointment, but I appreciate the
call and I'm happy. I'm here to do anything you
want to do. Thank you for being on the guys.
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
So I think we've accomplish what we're going to accomplish today.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Okay, John, thank you so much for hosting today's show. Steve,
thank you for being on the show.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
Donnie.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
That's a wrap for this week's show. Now over to
Andy for his keep and Pace weekly update.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
Thanks Fred.
Speaker 9 (38:15):
Actually I don't have a new column next Monday, but
I wrote three columns this week. I wrote about Freehold,
the closing, the pending closure of Freehold. I wrote about
news about the Federal racing Integrity law.
Speaker 6 (38:29):
It's getting closer and closer to.
Speaker 9 (38:30):
A review by the US Supreme Court, and then I
wrote another piece. A third piece this week on some
of the Heitha decisions and reversals that have come down
in the past couple of weeks. I think people in
the harness world will be interested. So a really busy
week on my way to Lectington, which I hope I'll
enjoy over the next couple of days.
Speaker 6 (38:50):
Thanks Fred, back to you.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Thank you Andy. The Harness Racing Alumni Show is the
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next week. The Harness Racing Alumni Show
Welcome to this week's Harness Racing Alumni Show. I'm Freddie
Hudson and I'm here today with Trade Martin, Bob Marx,
and Andy Cohen. The Harness Racing Alumni Show is the
number one Harness Racing podcast in North America. We have
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Trodden at outlook dot com, our visit us trots dot com.
(00:24):
The statements and opinions of our guests are their personal
opinions and beliefs, and it does not necessarily represent the
opinions of The Harness Racing Alumni Show or of its host.
The Harness Racing Alumni Show with your host Freddy Hudson
and Trade Martin. On this week's special broadcast, Hall of
(00:47):
Famer and this week's host, John Berry discusses the recent
announcement of the closing a Freehold Raceway with former New
Jersey Standardbird Owners' Association's president Tom Decento, retired drug trainer
and now judge, Donny Dancer, and longtime Free Whole publicity
director Steve Wolfe. Over to you, John, Well, thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
It's an honor for me to be on the broadcast
which sets wonderful, wonderful folks. Donnie Dancer, you know, four
twenty eight wins and twenty seven million in perse earnings,
and this was in an era when that was really something.
And of course Tommy Lucento one of the star warts
(01:31):
of the of the game for New Jersey. And it's
great to be with tom that's for sure. And had
a great restaurant too that I enjoyed so much. And
Steve walk the backbone of so many places, including Harness
linked to this very day, and I enjoy Steve so much,
and he does so much for the industry. And we're
(01:51):
here on kind of a somber occasion as Freehold has
announced that they're going to be closing their doors as
of the end of the year. And when they when
they closed a sports book couple of weeks ago, I
thought that was a little joke, kind of a minor earthquake,
and then when the second part there was a real earthquake,
kind of a seven point zero uh magnitude earthquake. And
(02:15):
you know they're caused by faults, and I'm wondering if
any of you might have an idea of who's at
fault in this decision to close Freehold Raceway.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Well, if you want to ask for someone specific to
talk first, go ahead, John.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Okay, Tom, You've been You've been forward for so long,
and uh, did you see this coming at all?
Speaker 3 (02:42):
I kind of did, you know. I follow it along
and I've watched, you know, for the longest time. They
never put any money into the place. They were letting
it run down. It was just a matter of I
really believe in that in the heart of hearts, they
were trying to get rid of the horses which they
couldn't and have and have the book. The sports were
booked there at the same time without having live racing
(03:06):
thanks to Ronnie Dancer, so when we had put that together,
so I think that they were holding out, holding out.
So I think one of the moves that they made
was to stop with the sports book first, pull it out,
and maybe they thought the horsemen may fold or may
not fold or whatever when they saw that wasn't happening,
(03:27):
and they had other thoughts in their mind. To my knowledge,
they offered the place to a couple of sports gaming
operations and none of them did. So what I'm thinking
now is they probably have somebody on the hook to
redevelop the place. But that being said, I don't know
(03:48):
that the town's going to go along with redevelopment. Part
of the racetrack is historical, not the new part since
the fire, but I think they've gotten around that already. Know. Still,
if the town's going to okay them to sell to
somebody else, they're certainly not going to sit on it,
you know. I mean, it's just too much money involved.
(04:09):
It's not good for any outlet stores or anything. You
got them all right across the street, which is not
doing as good as it should. So I would think
that only a developer would be interested, and as they
could get a test, that's their plan, I believe, So
I'll turn it over to somebody else. I might have
a different idea.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Well, it's to me it's a shame. The historical aspect
of freeo goes back to eighteen fifty three, and then
there's some evidence that racing was in the eighteen thirties
as well, and with the World Champion racing there, and
my goodness, some of the Dancer events were there of course,
and of course Donald Dancer, you're with us today and
(04:50):
there was no better family.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
For this sport than your family, Thank you.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Yeah, we'll miss it, that's right.
Speaker 5 (04:59):
Yeah, of course, tell us your thoughts about it. It
still hasn't set in totally a little bit. It's definitely
a shock, you know to me, and I honestly think
like my father, he pretty well said something to me
at one time once that they changed my grandfather's race.
(05:24):
That was on Labor Day. They changed that race. He said,
that's the beginning of the end. And I says, what
are you talking about, you know, and he says, you'll
see out there, like really and he said yeah, and
he's still the future.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
That didn't look good, you.
Speaker 6 (05:42):
Know, he really did. And he said, so many businesses
have a.
Speaker 5 (05:46):
Very good twenty five years, and after twenty five years
is over, he says, a business is lucky to survive,
and our business has certainly lasted longer. So it's you know,
when you think about it, mister Fisher owning the track
and the things that he tried.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
To do there.
Speaker 5 (06:04):
And I always heard that whoever owned the track always
made money.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
So it's a shock to me that.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
I don't know if they weren't getting along or what
it was. The two partners into the track, the two
you know, corporations that own it, they weren't getting along.
As something I heard. I just hope somebody steps up
and you know, buys interest into the track and tries
to revive it.
Speaker 6 (06:29):
That's what I'm hoping happens.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Yeah, right, I think that Donald's right there. I think
the two owners were fighting. They both didn't want it,
but they didn't want to sell it to the other one.
And just to add again, I think the only historical
parts is the racetrack itself, the oval now at this
(06:54):
point in time, and whether they got passed that or not,
I don't know. But there are areas all round and
the land across the street that they could develop, which
makes me think that that's what that's the way they
act thinking. So anybody else can add whatever, Well, I'll
tell you it.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
It spreads far and wide, not only to the racing
and the horsemen and the veterinarians and the judges and
everybody else, but to the businesses around it that have
been uh well, they've been benefiting for it for one
hundred years, and now that kind of goes away. Fels
it's a historic city and then this race track helped
(07:35):
make it historic city.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Right, I have a feeling I am a feeling that
the town is on off side. But how far that
they can take it, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
You know, every time I see a race renamed or changed,
we have so much history and so like when the
Meatal Lands change in that ray the winner of the
first Hamiltonian and they changed that name, and then the
missletel Shall League and.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
Change that name.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
You can always add history, and it's not right to
take history away from an industry that has such a
rich history.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
And every time I see it kind of makes me cringe,
you know, yes, absolutely, yeah, DV.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Hey JB.
Speaker 7 (08:33):
My feeling is. And I work at Freehold raceally for
ten great years, you know, after the fire, when the
new track opened, and we had permission because of the ownership,
whether it was the Wilmont family or and then Ken Fisher,
but we had permission to make the track as best
(08:57):
as we could, and we brought that grand circuit racing,
and we brought back free admission and eventually free parking,
and and and it all was forretty good. I mean,
we made millions of dollars every year, and every year
that Ken Fisher owned the property, we would put million
(09:20):
dollars in his coffer and in return he understood the
value of marketing and publicity and let us do everything
we can and it worked. And then the minute they
got rid of everyone in the casino company took over,
they cut their profit margin, you.
Speaker 6 (09:39):
Know, dramatically, and it's just, you know, it just brought
it in where.
Speaker 7 (09:46):
People weren't coming anymore. Where there used to be thousands
of people every day coming the Freehold six days a week,
and that.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Was before.
Speaker 7 (09:56):
That was just with simulcassing. There was no sports but
as soon as Freehold book but almost two years that
opened their sports book, you knew at that point there
had to be some problem going on here. I mean,
Montt Park opened the next day, the Meadowlands opened two
days later. Once sports book wagering was passed, but not
(10:19):
Freehold and their management there. Whether they wanted a financial
tax write off or whatever for the rest of the
ten gaming companies, I don't know. But if you don't,
you know, spend money on marketing and advertising, then people
aren't going to know and they're not going to want
to come out. And that's what's happened over the last
twenty four years, and every single year they just continue
(10:43):
to lose money.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
I have a question go ahead, I'm sorry, go ahead, good,
But I just wanted to say that how did they
fold up their book when they were betting more than
momot Talk on sports razoring Mom and Talk's doing well.
You know, there's had to be a plan in their mind.
Whatever their plan is obviously probably to develop it and
(11:08):
get rid of their partnership and break it up. I
just don't understand. There are so many things they can do.
I mean even you know, just one of the stupid
things is that they have a card game that they
run at parks and it's loaded all the time. They
could have added that to it. They could have made
a better room, a nicer conditions. The place in plain
(11:29):
English is an asshole, you know, I mean it really is.
I mean, they don't cut the grass, they don't do anything.
They just let it run down. I don't think they
spent two cents and to it since they got it.
The elevators always the escalators always broken. All the people
go over there, they have to walk up the stairs.
They can't do it, you know, I just don't get it.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yeah, And the excuse that they don't have enough money
to do it and they let it run down. I
think that's very lame because uh, many of the casino facilities,
they pour millions and millions of dollars into it, and
if they did the same thing with with our industry,
it absolutely could have survived.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
And it bothers me greatly that they that they're let
giving it the neglect that they are.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Oh h yeah, they've got a plan. I don't know
what their plan is. What they've got one, Well, I think.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
It could spread all over the country once they see
that they can get rid of uh. You know, look
what happened in Florida when the governor signed the UH
decoupling bill without voter approval, and the voters were the
ones who broke brought the casinos in and voted them in.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
And this guy he just said, well, let's he must.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
I'm sure that there were political dollars that involved there,
but uh but and that took pomp ando And you know,
once once the fires starts and it spreads, who knows.
Speaker 6 (13:02):
What's going to happen in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
You know, you know, we all know that Kentucky's okay,
in Ohio's okay for now, but look what happened in Illinois.
They're having situations. I think parts of New York might
be a little bit hippy as well. And the industry, yes, yes,
we're on crutches, there's no doubt about it. But that
was the deal to ensure the integrity and the continuation
(13:27):
of racing, with the stipulation that they could build their
at casino might cost them fifteen million dollars a year
for racing, but isn't that worth it to make one
hundred and fifty million dollars a year with a casino?
Speaker 3 (13:39):
I say, yeah, Well, you go over this, you ultimately
may see in the near and that maybe not the
near future, but you may see three tracks in the country,
one on the East coast, one on the midwest, and
one on the West coast. And I'm not so sure
about the West coast. I mean, we talked about that
years ago, that that could possibly happen, right, you know,
(14:01):
if they keep squeezing these little tracks out. You know, actually,
in reality, we've talked about this a number of times.
We needed a tsar in this racing industry. We don't
need Hissa, but we need a czar like baseball and
football and what have you, where we could really get
behind the person and and and we could have really
probably fought this thing off a little bit better than
(14:23):
we have. We're scattered, and when you're scattered, you know,
you don't have the the the might to take care
of it, you know, or to go against them.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
They differ articles about the need for a commissioners, no
doubt about it.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Hey, tom, Hey, Tommy Freddy here, do you think that
there's any chance for someone to step in and take
over Freehold for racing or do you think that the
dates would end up being moved over to the meadow lands.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
I thought that one of the possibilities. I'll answer the
two questions as I if I might. I think one
of the possibilities if they take that money that Freehold's losing, okay,
and it goes some of it, all of it. Some
of it goes to breeders awards, this and that and
what have you. But whatever Jeff is gonna get, and
he's gonna end up getting it, okay, he should put
(15:15):
on an extra day, such as a Thursday for the
lower class horses that would come from Freehold or whatever,
you know, from maybe fifteen thousand claimers down or what
have you. And he may not like that because he
may not make money keeping his plant open by giving
them money to the horseman. But I think that's the
right thing to do, and I think that's probably one
of the things he should do. What was your other question,
(15:38):
I'm sorry, just someone taking over, somebody taking it over,
somebody taking it over unless they have supplements, you know,
enough to keep them going. Nobody's gonna nobody's gonna jump
in and take it. Although they get the property with it.
If they tell just take the license, that's not enough
to entice somebody. They need to have something, you know,
(16:02):
to look on in case they fail, which would be
the property. But there's always a chance to sell that.
You could get somebody together to get it. Tommy Ceople fear. Uh.
Speaker 7 (16:15):
The two otbs that Freeholme has, would they be able
to continue running or would they have to close too?
Speaker 3 (16:23):
I would now, I think. I don't know. If they've
hooked into with with Mamma Park has their own I believe,
But the two otbs, I don't know, what would you know?
They could take other tracks, of course, so they may
stay open for that, you know, Simon, as you know
(16:43):
the other tracks, you know, But I don't know. I
don't know who actually has control of them.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
But didn't they let all their employees go though, so
no one would be able to do the best.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Yeah, well, question, they'd have to rehire if somebody would
take it over. See in Momma and Fox's case, Dennis
Dresen I think has control and ownership if Mommat Park
would have closed. There are two. I think he's involved
in two of them. Hillsborough is one of them. They
go to him his own personal corporation.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Okay, okay, hey Dinnie, did you want to jump in here.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Now?
Speaker 5 (17:26):
Just that at one time we had heard that for him,
maybe it was going to close, you know, I'd say
a year and a half ago, maybe that there was
a member that they were going to sell off where
they had parking of the cars heading to the ran
the last turn over in that area, and they're filling
up with these car lots like a car lot. So
(17:50):
and a couple of the people we talked to Barbara
Matthews about having them trying to make the track an
historic track. So then we had a meeting with the
Freehold Borough because it came under the Freehold Borough. And
so we went into the meeting and I brought pictures
and memorabilia from racing there.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
I was there.
Speaker 5 (18:13):
Ray Baines came with me and his girlfriend and we
went through the meeting and they sounded very interested to
try to make an unhistoric site.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
And then the bottom line.
Speaker 5 (18:26):
At the end of the meeting was that they thought
they should have Freehole Township involved in the decision making.
So the next move was that we were supposed to
have a meeting with the borough and Freehole Township, and
that meeting never happened. So my knowledge, I don't think
that it's all an historic site. But I also found
(18:47):
out even if it was, that they may be able
to get around that, so I think they already have done. Yeah,
you know, I heard what you said, and you know,
I was hoping that that would really put us, you know,
damper on because I thought that that's would have maybe
say Groosevelt Raceway. And now I hear this that even
they could get around it.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Please, you know, what can you do? You needed? Well,
I wonder how they can handle all this new development
in the borough there. I mean, they can't have all
these the schools will be overcrowded. They just I don't
know how they possibly could handle it. That's why I
think the town would probably be on our side. You know,
(19:32):
you can't flood the town with all these townhouses whatever.
They can't afford it. And all the all the the
the the immigrants that are coming in, you know, I
mean they the Freehold. If you go into Freeold now
it's like New Mexico. You know, you hardly see any
anything else. But the Spanish people are running. You know,
(19:53):
they're okay, they haven't cause any problems, but I don't
think they can handle it.
Speaker 5 (19:58):
And for the borough, you know, fruit Ferial Township. You
see they have the horse period of time where they
have the statues of the horses.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
All over the place.
Speaker 5 (20:07):
I mean, they seem to be very pathetic with love
and racing and understand the rich history of horse racing there.
And they really sounded like they wanted to do it,
you know, but I think that they were trying to
check the laws to see what could be done. But
like I said, if you can get around it anyway,
you know, what can you do? I think it would
just be in a die.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Hindsight is always you know, it's just something that we
should have been on this a long time ago, really
pushing hard. Everybody but the horsemen that tend to lay back,
you know, everybody, I'm not just pointing, but we probably
could have maybe got something done at that time. The
way I look at it is if a sports book
(20:51):
doesn't come in there and take it, then we don't
have a chance. Then it's just going to either be
redeveloped or I don't know what use they could do it,
but I think a sports book could make it if
they made it really nice and fixed it up, spend
some money, because I think they could buy this place
at a fire sale now, you know, so that money
that they could save in buying it, they could use
(21:13):
it redeveloping it, fixing it up, really making it nice,
put a real good restaurant, and put a real nice
place for people to go in and bet sports and simulcast.
And I think that's that's the only chance we have.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
I have a suggestion for the restaurant, that's for sure. Hey, listen,
I have one question, though, I'm looking at the repercussions
of this really having a having a detrimental effect. You know,
these tracks are closing, and I'm not sure that we
(21:49):
aren't going to have a crash in yearling prices when
there's just not enough racing opportunities in the future to
sustain the number of foals.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
And if they're going one fifty and earning nothing, you know,
and it's happening today.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
They're allowed horses, they are going one to fifty and
four claimers going fifty two.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
Or three, and they're they're they're they're not making a dime.
And I'm just hoping that I'm just hoping that it
doesn't crash.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
In the year market. Well, you know, if you have
a thought, I want, well, I want somebody to tell
me on this conversation how the people are freehold are
making it now with the expenses of blacksmiths of sky High,
the veterinarians of sky High, they pay for shipping. The
grooms now want X amount of dollars that are you know,
(22:39):
very high to go to the paddock. I don't know
how they make it unless the guy does everything himself, trains,
drives grooms, you know, the whole thing. And I still
don't know how he can make it. And I don't
know how you could get onus to put up money,
you know, to do it, unless they can really build
it up to something, you know, where they get more money.
(23:02):
You know, first of all. I don't think Freo is
getting their first aare of the money anyway that's coming
from the state. There's I think there's ten ten million
dollars they get or whatever it is six and I
forget they've changed it now to split and I think
Jeff gets the majority. I think Friel only gets about
a million and a half dollars.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Yeah, ye, top Tommy Freddy here getting back to like
you know what you're what you just said, like about
the costs, you know, like if you and me went
back to training horses, we couldn't do it.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
I couldn't get that, absolutely not.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
And you couldn't pay me enough money to train horses again, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Without a doubt. You couldn't even entertain the thought. But
these guys were stuck into it, now, you know. I
mean they gradually caught up to them. They were just
racing along. We got out, you know, but but for
other reasons. But now you know this stuck. I feel
terrible for the horsemen. I don't know what they're going
(24:03):
to do, you know, unless they can consolidate the tables,
get a couple of good horses, erase them at the
Midlands rather than have ben bad ones or I shouldn't
say bad, but less a quality, right.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
I think we're going to run out of employees and
people before we run out of racetracks. John, you've been
doing a lot of the background check on your upcoming drivers.
How many are under thirty?
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Right now?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
About one and a half percent of the drivers are
under thirty years old. I think they're close to three
nine hundred and something and I believe there are fifty
one or fifty two drivers under the age of thirty.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
What about the bet is how old today? That's what
I need to escalate it there.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Hey, listen, I just hosted I just hosted a thing
at in a simulcast venue here in Florida. And of
the I think there were seven hundred and the count
was seven hundred and forty and I think there were
like three or four that were under the age of forty.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
That's it.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
All of the other one sixty five, seventy five, eighty ninety.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
You know, I mean a man, you're living long lives.
But when we when we lose them, we've we've lost
for good. We aren't replacing them.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
Like my friends and they sat her said, he said.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Every every year we have new folds that come around,
and now we need new fools to bet on the
new folds.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Well, I asked them. I knew something was wrong when
I told them you got to fix the escalator. Most
of these people that are coming in here in the daytime,
they can't get up those stairs. They need the escalator. Well,
we can't afford it. It was like thirty six thousand
dollars or something. He said, to fix it. If you can't,
then then I said, something's wrong here. You know. They
just don't want to spend.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
That kind of reminds me of Lawrence Cater when they
when Roosevelt Raceway was on the way out. He said,
fix the carpet and fix the carpeting, and they said.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
No, Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 5 (26:15):
I had some family members coming here on my wife's end,
and they were coming to visit, and I was looking
for somewhere to take them out to dinner, to have
a nice lunch or dinner brunch, and I suggested free
whole Raceway. I said, why don't we do that, Why
don't we have a race named after them? And you know,
(26:36):
I have to make a big deal about it and
have dinner there or lunch and see what they say.
So it was going to be a party of about
twenty some people. Okay, I called to make a reservation.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
They couldn't do it. They said that they.
Speaker 5 (26:49):
Didn't they already had one party that day and they
couldn't include another way. And I said what and they said, no,
we don't have the help to do it. But then
I didn't accept that, So then I talked to Karen
fact Ern. Then I talked to Bruno, the general manager,
and I got They said they hated to turn down
(27:10):
the business, but they said, we just don't have enough people,
but we're going to try to find somebody. So then
then they called me back and they still weren't able
to do it because they couldn't doesn't have the help.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
In order to do it. Well, they only have one keller.
They got one killer run one. If you don't play
the machines, and a lot of the old people don't
understand the machines, so you're losing out there. I mean,
I you know, I don't know. They just didn't give
a damn. That's a big problem.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
I guess that sort of sums it up about Freehold.
They just didn't give a damn.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Yeah, I don't I just don't understand it. I don't know.
Speaker 5 (27:50):
I know you had out if you could run any
business like that and turn away business when you got
people trying to give you business.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
So you know, I would say that we could get together,
you know, and get a big contingency and go see
the governor and talk to them about it. But I
think the governors on their side, I mean, you know
they're talking now. I understand that, and Freehol wouldn't be
part of it, but that they may come out with casinos,
gambling at the metal Lands and Mormont Park, not at
(28:22):
Marris Barey from resources involved at Marmont Park in a
big way, all of a sudden they have a chance.
And so I don't know that the governor's talking about
possibly doing it, you know, because he's getting out, so
you know, on his way out, who knows what's gonna happen,
you know, But that could be a game changer. Yeah,
(28:44):
I mean, but I don't think Freeho would have gotten
it anyway. You know, they would have bypassed them. Momont
would have ganged up on them, Jeff A. Tree Old anyway,
So you know, no one else the cubs that he's
money that you know, they were supposed to be getting
and where that would go to? Frio?
Speaker 6 (29:03):
I thought that that would then the track goes to
the middle els, it goes to the medal.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
Yeah, I would think so, and and but a lot
of that goes and like I said, breeders awards or
programs that they have or such. But most of it
would go to Jeff. You know, he'd take that right up,
because that money is allotted to the to the industry itself,
Mom and Plock gets half and harness Racing gets the
(29:30):
other half, and out of out of the harness Racing half,
Jeff gets most of it, and about a million and
a half dollars goes to Freil. I don't know the
exact number, but that's close enough.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Right Tommy Freddy here ye? Would it be your one
day of racing like Thursday at the Meadowlands to pick
up the free host slack?
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Would that be enough?
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Or would they need two days and possibly do it
like a Sunday and then Monday in the afternoons versus
doing it in the evening so that they don't have
to turn the lights on.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
You Well, what you're gonna that sounds okay to me,
But what you're gonna what's gonna happen is he's gonna
come at you with nobody's gonna come and bet on him.
And I got to keep my plant open, I got
to keep the employees on, I got to do this
and that. And it's going to eat up that money
that's supposed to go to persons. Uh, that's what he's
gonna come at you with. But that's a good idea.
(30:25):
That's a very good idea because he's the horseman.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yeah, and basically, if you can't save a freehold, go ahead. Yeah,
it could save racing in New Jersey and the bigger picture.
And we also, you know, we haven't discussed out how
the crows and the freehold is going to affect the
breeding industry in New Jersey. They could take a big
hit on this absolutely.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
You know, the prices have been up at the sales,
but they got about them out now. I mean, when
they they start, people start getting shaky, they start seeing
tracks closing and this and that. But if you can,
I think that's our only avenue is to try to
force Jeff to put on some races for these guys
so they're not out of business, they're not gone, they're
not gonna starve. They can continue to race. You know,
(31:15):
it'll be a little more expensive to ship the horses up, but.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
That are more expensive and you have a shout of
making some money than nothing.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
I think that's the only way we can save these horsemen.
And that's my my, you know my thoughts, you know,
save the horsemen. If you can't save the track, you've
got to save these guys, you know, the blacksmiths, the veterinarians.
I mean, all right, they make their money, but what
are they going to shoot now? If freeo goes out
and these horses leave, and then you know, we always
(31:48):
needed a place where the when a horse is not
good enough anymore at the metal ends, they would have
freehold to go to. You know they don't have that now.
That's going to affec even the good horses. M hm
and the sales.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Steve, you've an awfu quiet.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
That's well.
Speaker 7 (32:10):
I've been listening to everything, and and and and and
Tommy's told uh a lot that I would just reflect on.
I mean, look if the historic significance or or land site, uh,
because I know the historical society doesn't listened to anything
for actual freehold raceway, but uh, the idea of the
(32:33):
historic is out of there, then then the next best
hope is going to be the the township and and
the UH and and freehold proper.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Uh.
Speaker 7 (32:42):
You have to make life miserable for them trying to
sell it or do something with the property. I mean, well,
but if they keep it in the same hands, it's
not going to get any better. And that that's my suggestion.
My suggestion is if we can't get the racetrackle, we
need to get a meeting with Jeff asap. And you know,
(33:07):
I certainly want to be at that meeting.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
You know, if we call it, I mean, the SBOA
is fine, bring them in also if they want to
come up, you know, and I'm sure they will, but
I want to be at that meeting. I have a
good relationship with Jeff. And you know, I'm the one
who told them to end up buying the racetrack to
begin with. You know, I called them up the day
before they were going to close freehold and the middle
(33:29):
ends excuse me, And he used to blame me all
the time every time he saw me. You made me
buy this place, and I'm losing on then when he
got the sports rangering, Oh he's a happy camper. Now
he doesn't say anything anymore. So that's my suggestion. We
ought to get together. Freddie, if you want to try
and ask Jeff if he wants to have a meeting
(33:50):
with us about this, I wouldn't get too involved because
he mean Nick's you're right off the bat, you know.
Just tell him we need to have a meeting and
talk to you about what's going on. And you know
you you proossibly are going to get money from Freehold.
We need to have a say in this.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Okay, I'll work I'll work on that, no problems.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
Or if you want me to talk to to uh
Mark thought about it about him approaching him, Well, I'll
approach him myself.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
And now you don't have any more rabbits up your sleeve.
You saved them the Meadowlands. No one just no, no
rabbit up your sleeve to save Freehold.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
Well, I hope, I hope I can help. I really do.
I'm really I'm really really heartbroken over this for the
horsemen themselves, and of course seeing free Or Raceway, the
oldest racetrack in the country going out of business. The
nostalgia involved there is off the.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Charts, but it's a piece of our history, you know, Tommy, you, myself, Steve, Donnie,
we all raced the Freehold and I always enjoyed it.
Where what was it called the afternoon de Light?
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Yeah, great place, great great place. It didn't happen that was.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Let me ask one Let me ask one question here. Uh,
why can't the racing commissions who give these or whoever
gives these licenses out come up with an ironclad agreement saying, Hey,
you wanted to get a casino in here, you want this,
you want that, you want this, but you have to
(35:24):
guarantee there's no getting out of it.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
You know.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
You can't say you can't say you're going to throw it,
throw it away like like a foreclaimer when he's done racing.
Speaker 4 (35:34):
You can't just throw put it in the kill ten.
And they put they put Behold in the kill ten.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
I still have some connections in Trenton that we could
put a little pressure on them about that. Yeah, you know,
I agree, that would have been a great and they
paid the money for the bonds to buy the track.
That would have I'm just glad this didn't. I'm good
this hadn't happened with me and you were racing, Donnie.
(36:03):
I wouldn't know what to do with that time.
Speaker 5 (36:06):
No, it's really heartbreaking, like you say, And to think
about so many families that are involved and been involved
with racing and grew up there. I remember when they
had the barn area and the kids were growing up there,
you know, and us I was going, I was a kid, grandstand.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
My grandfather used to sneak me into the track, you know,
and it's.
Speaker 6 (36:29):
Foxy, I mean, like we got. And I see so
many other people like that.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
And that's what I think of.
Speaker 8 (36:35):
About the families that grew up around racing, and that's
what you needed to do in order to I think
about the Indian with the tear in his eyes. That's
you're right, that's what I think about. Yeah, it's just
like I think we ought to get a meeting. I
think ahead.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
I'm sorry, perhaps absolutely, do you.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
Want to work on that, go ahead, and if you
need my help, I'll be happy to jump right in
with you, okay.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
And one of the other things I'm going to point
out that I have seen since I've been doing a
lot of work in Washington, DC is a lot of
times bills that get passed by one group of politicians,
like ten fifteen years ago. Will new politicians come in
and they pretty much delete what the other politicians have done,
or they change the legislation around it. You see that
(37:30):
going on in Pennsylvania right now, especially with horse racing.
Speaker 4 (37:35):
Very tough to fight political dollars.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
I know, but I say I still have a few
connections in Trenton since who I was when I was
with the SBOA. I can help you a little bit there.
Give me your shot. I've got to jump off now
because I got a doctor's appointment, but I appreciate the
call and I'm happy. I'm here to do anything you
want to do. Thank you for being on the guys.
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
So I think we've accomplish what we're going to accomplish today.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Okay, John, thank you so much for hosting today's show. Steve,
thank you for being on the show.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
Donnie.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
That's a wrap for this week's show. Now over to
Andy for his keep and Pace weekly update.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
Thanks Fred.
Speaker 9 (38:15):
Actually I don't have a new column next Monday, but
I wrote three columns this week. I wrote about Freehold,
the closing, the pending closure of Freehold. I wrote about
news about the Federal racing Integrity law.
Speaker 6 (38:29):
It's getting closer and closer to.
Speaker 9 (38:30):
A review by the US Supreme Court, and then I
wrote another piece. A third piece this week on some
of the Heitha decisions and reversals that have come down
in the past couple of weeks. I think people in
the harness world will be interested. So a really busy
week on my way to Lectington, which I hope I'll
enjoy over the next couple of days.
Speaker 6 (38:50):
Thanks Fred, back to you.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Thank you Andy. The Harness Racing Alumni Show is the
number one harness racing podcast in North America and has
listened to worldwide on multiple platforms including Speaker, iHeartRadio, US Trots,
dot Com, Harness Link, Google Podcasts, and many others. To
our audience, thanks for listening and please join us again
next week. The Harness Racing Alumni Show
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