October 9, 2025 • 20 mins
We are joined by our good friend and International standardbred breeder and owner, Gordon Banks on this week's Harness Racing Alumni Show. Gordon discusses a wide range of topics including the recent Lexington sale, yearling buyers, sires, and an update on the industry business plan. Banks also shares his thoughts on recent fines and suspensions while answering the question of what he would do if he was the Czar of harness racing. All on this week's broadcast.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to this week's Harness Racing Alumni Show. I'm Freddie
Hudson and I'm here today with Trade Martin and Bob Barks.
This week's Harness Racing Alumni Show is brought to you
by the Metal Lands Racetrack. Visit Playmeetalands dot com. Hunterton
Farms selling their consignment at the Upcome in Harrisburg Sale
(00:20):
November three through the seventh. Visit Huntertonfarm dot com. October
twelfth is the last day to become a sponsor for
the Bill o'donald Tribute. To become a sponsor, visit usstrats
dot com. The Harness Racing Alumni Show with your hosts
Freddie Hudson and Trade Martin. Joining us today is a
(00:45):
sometimes Harness racing alumni host, Gordon Banks, and a international
owner and breeder. Gordon Welcome back to the Harness Racing
Alumni Show.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Hi, Freddie, how are you?
Speaker 1 (00:57):
We're doing well, Gordon. You just returned from the Lexington Sales.
Any observations how the sale went?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Yeah? I left early. I only stayed there for a
couple of days of the sale, but it was pretty
well attended. I thought, maybe slightly fewer people than last year,
at least on the outside ring. The internal sales pavilion
was packed, especially the first day. Trotting prices are astronomical.
It's as if the trotting industry is non profit oriented.
(01:31):
In terms of the buyers, it's just they want to
champion and I'll pay whatever they can get it. And
it's really not a It's an incredible market, it's just
not flyer. The pacing end is much more purchasable and
the prices are more reasonable, sort of split between the
five or six sires that everybody would expect to be
(01:52):
at the top, But I think at the top end
of the market it's still it's still very strong. The
one thing that you do notice when you look at
the results is how it's really coalesque into seven or
eight or nine major buyers, all of whom are pretty elderly.
And it makes you wonder what's going to happen in
the next five or ten years when when those buyers
(02:14):
stopped buying. And I guess every generation wonders that. Usually
somebody has come up, but I wonder this time that
that'll happen.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Did you notice any new buyers or any younger buyers there?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I didn't, but I'm sure they were. I mean, but
the major the major horses were bought by the major
players that you would have expected to make the purchases,
and and they're all, you know, I mean sixty years
sixty five. Now, I was young, and so many of
them were. You know, we're in the seventies or eighties,
and you know, now that I'm getting older, I'm very
sympathetic to that. But it still is a question mark
(02:51):
for the industry going a park with now.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Now, they spent a lot of money at the Lexington sale.
Is it possible that some of the buyers that were
run out of money before the Harrisburg sales?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Again, I don't think the top end buyers will, but
the rest of the market money because the prices on
the on the third and fourth days were across the
board sort of a little light compared to what you
would have expected and perhaps what the quality was, especially
on the fourth day, So it's possible that you'll see
uh uh, you know, in the middle or lower end
(03:26):
of the market. The little weakness at Harrisburg that end
of the market is is weak anyway.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yeah, I saw some really nice horses. So on the
fourth day that I thought they sold very cheap, especially
some of the Walders and so forth.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yeah, they really did. And and uh that does tell
a story, I mean, but it was a it was
a it was a strange Leshington is always a little
bit of a difficult, strange market, and uh, it's harder
to find horses to fall through this year. There's definitely
were good buyers there on the on the pacing end,
though not on the trying end.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I saw, I lended to Scando and Tonio Lane. You're
buying several several of these last days or the sports
stayers should say.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Yes, and Chris Ryder and Noel Daily and and you know,
there were a lot of good buys in the last
couple of days. And we and on the first day
we had a million dollar seller. Yes, yes, that was
That's always nice for the business. And and uh, uh
you did. But more than a million dollars sale. There
(04:35):
were just so many that were, you know, five hundred
thousand in that range and up. And uh. Now that's
why everybody, I think almost everybody's gone into partnerships, because
you have so many wealthy people in the industry, and uh,
they they get together four of them and Uh, the
horse should be two hundred thousand dollars and it's going
(04:56):
to be five or six hundred thousand. Two of those
groups wanted because it's small money to them when it's
a partnership in particular, right.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
I was also very pleased to see the way that
the King of the North sold over at Lexington, being
this is his first crop.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yeah, they were strong. They were strong. But we're still
tend to be a first crop industry, and if the
horse is well thought of, the first crop prices tend
to be a little bit a little bit high as
compared to let's say down Under, where they don't generally
buy first crop. They want to wait and see how
(05:36):
the horses hit. Were the opposite correct? Now? Now move
moving along here.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Is there any updates on the business blend that you
spent several weeks working on.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Oh, I'm going to get I think that was a setup. Well,
you know, we completed a draft of it and we're
trying to circulate it and see what comes from it.
The difficulty is that when we have preliminary conversations with
the people you need to support this in the industry,
(06:12):
there isn't support. But the industry is blocked by leadership
that doesn't want to get behind what is necessary to
make this industry work. The USPA focuses on issues that
don't relate to the future of the industry as it
(06:33):
is now. I mean they relate. They focus on highs
that they focus on various small initiatives. They don't focus
on the major issue, which is, we're an industry owned
by resinos, by casinos, and they all want us to perish,
and there has to be something that's done proactively to
(06:57):
try to turn that around. Or all these highs of issues,
there's all these other issues that they're trying to push
aren't going to be relevant. All these things are relevant
only if you have a solid cord or an industry.
We don't have that. And there should be a you know,
a committee formed by the USJA or by the industry.
It's going to specifically focus on the issue would be coupling,
(07:19):
and specifically focus on outreaching and trying to get specific
protections in certain states. You may have possibilities with some
tracks that are that are that are old to get
them landmarked in a way that would save them. There's
certainly ways to raise money in the industry, and I
think outside the industry. The problem again is that you
(07:41):
don't get cooperation from the key players you need it.
The thing that's frustrating is that you have an industry
that is, and I don't mean to insult anyone that
I'm speaking generally, it's an industry that's run by horse people,
and it's an industry that shouldn't be run by horse people.
(08:01):
You don't have any significant industry that is managed and
run by specifically the people that grew up in that industry.
You don't have, in general in the sports field, leagues
being run by stars. You have them being run by
people that can get the job done because of different expertise.
(08:23):
When you go to a business, you go to a
company when IBM was failing, they went outside. You look
for specific expertise that's there to address the problems that
industry has, and horse racing doesn't do that because it
sticks with its own And no matter how great you
are as a horseman and what accolades you had, what
(08:46):
accomplishments you had, it doesn't mean that you can address
the business problems that assent the industry and the strategic problems.
And we haven't gotten the right people in the right
positions to address the issues that have to be addressed
to save the industry from really significant to climb right.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
And one of the first things that really definitely needs
to be done with the United States TRY and Association
is that.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
They need the board cut down. They need to get
that board down from sixty down to eight twelve at
the most.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
That's the first thing that needs to be done.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yeah, but that's that's like so many things in this industry.
That's obvious. But the big board size protects the current management.
If you get the board size down, it creates the
possibility for change. In any organization, they don't want change.
They want to protect their jobs for now. They want
(09:42):
to have their internal power and they recognize that if
you're going to have to try to change management with
a sixty member plus board, it's split up into different
years of reelection that it's a massive and timely task.
If you had a small board that would be functional,
especially with some outside directors like any normal company would have,
(10:03):
it wouldn't be protective of the usk management the whole.
It ties into what I was discussing before. Nothing is
structured for the betterment of the industry. It's structured for
the betterment of certain people who like their jobs, aren't
doing their jobs well and want to protect their jobs.
And that's sad, and we're seeing the results of it
(10:24):
because nothing is proactively being done to address or or
or help the industry. Now.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
The other thing, Gordon uh recently, like the USCA has
fined and suspended several prominent readers and owners or drug
related finds.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Of what are what are your thoughts on that? You know,
are you really trying to get me in trouble? I
think I think that uh, you know, what, what Diamond
Creek and what what Eric Harry did for hal was unwise,
and I think if you ask them, they probably would
(11:06):
regret what they had done. But was it something that
should have been addressed the way that it was? I
think most reasonable people would say no, those are people
that are crucial to our industry, that have done a
tremendous amount for our industry and perhaps exhibited bad judgment
in the instance. But really, what the USA should have done?
(11:26):
I know because I'm friendly with Eric, and I know
that they did not really try to settle the erituary
issue quietly and in the right way. I mean, if
Eric in the breeding end of the business, assumed, perhaps incorrectly,
(11:48):
that what he was doing was okay, and the USA
discovered that they didn't like what they saw. They had
to pick up the phone. They had to say Eric, well,
you're doing something that's wrong. You've done a lot in
the industry. We don't see any benefit in publishing this.
Let's come to an internal agreement as to how you
(12:09):
got to rectify it, and you won't do it again.
It could have all been done the same with Diamond Creek.
There's no need to pick on people who, by the way,
happen to be major breeders, especially in a state competitive
with Hanover shoe and I just leave the implication there.
I'm not making an accusation, but again, it's a bad
look for the sport. It's a bad look for Hanover.
(12:30):
It looks as if the USJA is going after people
that are breeding in competition with Hanover. And certainly the
problem in the industry isn't that breeders are hidden, They're
not racing. We have a racing issue. We have a
drugging issue. There are multiple trainers that everybody knows are drugging,
and nothing is being done about those trainers. Instead, they
(12:53):
focus on breeders. Nothing could happen to endanger racing because
of an improper alliance of breeders because that horse eventually
has to get registered, and if the race horse can't
be registered, the harm can't be done to the racing
end of it. So really it was just sort of
(13:13):
a personal attack on Diamond Creek and Eric Cherry that
didn't serve anyone's interesting.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
But god, it wasn't it After the facts though, weren't
they disassociated with Cervik at that particular point that they
were going on. You know, the information it wasn't current,
it was old information, and I don't know all the details.
I don't know, you know, who would trust on these issues.
But whether it was or not, it was wrong. And
(13:41):
the other thing, in particular of Eric Cherry's it was
really wrong was that.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
The USTA stalled the process, allowing themselves time to raise
the penalty that would occur. There was a limitation on
the penalty of the ten thousand dollars, and the initial
committee finding in the USGA was that there should be
a fine of ten thousand or less because that was
(14:05):
what their guidelines were. By stalling, they enabled a change
to the guidelines, and a month after they changed the guidelines,
they came out with the over over the top financial
penalty to Eric Chenry, which they could easily have done
at any point in time during the more than one
year investigation that they had. It was just morally wrong,
(14:28):
and I think from a legal perspective, it was challengeable,
and Eric doesn't want to create more waves and he
doesn't want to hurt the industry. I'm not sure if
it were I that I wouldn't have done something because
it was just wrong. You can't. You can't have a
year and a half investigation under certain rules that are
in place at the time, stretched the investigation out, and
(14:51):
then and then change the rules and say, okay, now
you've got to pay more. That's just basically fundamentally wrong.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
But you know, one of the other issu us is
dealing with the broodmare's. Everyone that I spoke to they
didn't know that an owner of a broodmare had to
be licensed.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yeah, I think that's fair. I think that That's why
I think it would have been better to perhaps bring
out the facts and use it as an example, but
not a penalty, because it wasn't something really on the radar.
If somebody is prevented from training or driving or owning
(15:33):
a race horse because of something that they did, it's
not immediately obvious that they can't own a broodmare because
the block is to racing. The effect that the danger
is to the perception and to the reality of the racing.
Owning a broodmare does not impact that. So making a
big public humiliation of major players because of something on
(15:58):
the breeding end was unwall eyes, unnecessary and really achieve nothing.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Okay, Gordon, this is my last question, my last question
to get you into more troubles. Okay, I have no
doubt you have just been elected to the bizarre of harnitration.
What is the first thing that you would do resign?
I thought you might say, go.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Out the.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
First thing I would really, honestly, the first thing I
would do after resigning, I don't know. I I would
do everything I could to create a ground swell from
the ground up.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
The industry needs to be unified. The reason it's not
unified is because you have the wrong person at the
top who feeds on the dissension within the industry. You
have to bring the drivers, the trainers, the owners, the
big owners, the small owners. You have to bring everybody
in under the same tent, and not everyone's going to
agree with each other or with what will end up
(17:04):
being the direction, but everyone has to feel they have
input and there has to be an answer given when
something they recommend isn't done, and it has to be
a reasonable answer, not a political answer. And you have
to cut down the board. You have to have accountability.
You have to bring in people that can address the
problems that you have, because you have problems in so
(17:24):
many different fronts. So I think the first thing you
have to do is exhibit and create leadership in the
industry that they can make it move. There's so many problems.
It's great to see that the Red Mile is going
to have the Breeder's Crown in twenty twenty seven. All
I can say is they better fix up the facility
because the Red Mile needs if it's going to house
(17:47):
successfully the Breeder's Crown, they need to really do some
work there to make it what it should be. And
it easily could be. It's a showpiece facility, but it
needs a lot of work to enable the grandstand and
and and what they have to to really shine the
way that you would like but there's so many things
(18:07):
in the in the industry. I think, Uh, I that's
why I start with the big picture, because I don't.
I think what what our industry has done is always
look at the small picture, look at the you know,
the trees, and lose lose vision of the forest. I
think you have to start with the big picture. Know
(18:29):
where you want to go with the big picture. Look
at the six or seven big picture issues that are
a problem. The casino ownership, dwindling, attendance, dwindling handled sort
of boring races. Uh, A weakness on the in the
middle and lower markets. Uh, you have, you have, you
have so many different issues. You've got to pick five
(18:53):
or six major ones and really attack them. But do
it in a unified fashion completely. That's the real key.
And nothing can get done now because you speak whatever
whatever initiatives you're going to try to create, is it's
gonna you know, have half the industry support it and
half the industry oppose it. And the head of the
(19:14):
USJ is going to push that division. And that has
that has to end it if anything good is going
to happen, all right, anything else you want to go
work for me with now, with that I'll end the show. Gordon.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
I want to thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Thank you good.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
This week's Harness Race and Alumni Show is brought to
you by the Metal Lands Racetrack. Visit Playmeetlands dot com.
Hunterton Farms selling their consignment at the Upcome in Harrisburg
Sale November three through the seventh. Visit Huntertonfarm dot com.
October twelfth is the last day to become a sponsor
(19:52):
for the Bill o'donald Tribute. To become a sponsor, visit
us strats dot com. Okay, that's a wrap for this
week's Thanks for listening and please join us again next
week
Speaker 2 (20:05):
The hun Is Racing Alumni Show
Welcome to this week's Harness Racing Alumni Show. I'm Freddie
Hudson and I'm here today with Trade Martin and Bob Barks.
This week's Harness Racing Alumni Show is brought to you
by the Metal Lands Racetrack. Visit Playmeetalands dot com. Hunterton
Farms selling their consignment at the Upcome in Harrisburg Sale
(00:20):
November three through the seventh. Visit Huntertonfarm dot com. October
twelfth is the last day to become a sponsor for
the Bill o'donald Tribute. To become a sponsor, visit usstrats
dot com. The Harness Racing Alumni Show with your hosts
Freddie Hudson and Trade Martin. Joining us today is a
(00:45):
sometimes Harness racing alumni host, Gordon Banks, and a international
owner and breeder. Gordon Welcome back to the Harness Racing
Alumni Show.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Hi, Freddie, how are you?
Speaker 1 (00:57):
We're doing well, Gordon. You just returned from the Lexington Sales.
Any observations how the sale went?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Yeah? I left early. I only stayed there for a
couple of days of the sale, but it was pretty
well attended. I thought, maybe slightly fewer people than last year,
at least on the outside ring. The internal sales pavilion
was packed, especially the first day. Trotting prices are astronomical.
It's as if the trotting industry is non profit oriented.
(01:31):
In terms of the buyers, it's just they want to
champion and I'll pay whatever they can get it. And
it's really not a It's an incredible market, it's just
not flyer. The pacing end is much more purchasable and
the prices are more reasonable, sort of split between the
five or six sires that everybody would expect to be
(01:52):
at the top, But I think at the top end
of the market it's still it's still very strong. The
one thing that you do notice when you look at
the results is how it's really coalesque into seven or
eight or nine major buyers, all of whom are pretty elderly.
And it makes you wonder what's going to happen in
the next five or ten years when when those buyers
(02:14):
stopped buying. And I guess every generation wonders that. Usually
somebody has come up, but I wonder this time that
that'll happen.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Did you notice any new buyers or any younger buyers there?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I didn't, but I'm sure they were. I mean, but
the major the major horses were bought by the major
players that you would have expected to make the purchases,
and and they're all, you know, I mean sixty years
sixty five. Now, I was young, and so many of
them were. You know, we're in the seventies or eighties,
and you know, now that I'm getting older, I'm very
sympathetic to that. But it still is a question mark
(02:51):
for the industry going a park with now.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Now, they spent a lot of money at the Lexington sale.
Is it possible that some of the buyers that were
run out of money before the Harrisburg sales?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Again, I don't think the top end buyers will, but
the rest of the market money because the prices on
the on the third and fourth days were across the
board sort of a little light compared to what you
would have expected and perhaps what the quality was, especially
on the fourth day, So it's possible that you'll see
uh uh, you know, in the middle or lower end
(03:26):
of the market. The little weakness at Harrisburg that end
of the market is is weak anyway.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yeah, I saw some really nice horses. So on the
fourth day that I thought they sold very cheap, especially
some of the Walders and so forth.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yeah, they really did. And and uh that does tell
a story, I mean, but it was a it was
a it was a strange Leshington is always a little
bit of a difficult, strange market, and uh, it's harder
to find horses to fall through this year. There's definitely
were good buyers there on the on the pacing end,
though not on the trying end.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I saw, I lended to Scando and Tonio Lane. You're
buying several several of these last days or the sports
stayers should say.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Yes, and Chris Ryder and Noel Daily and and you know,
there were a lot of good buys in the last
couple of days. And we and on the first day
we had a million dollar seller. Yes, yes, that was
That's always nice for the business. And and uh, uh
you did. But more than a million dollars sale. There
(04:35):
were just so many that were, you know, five hundred
thousand in that range and up. And uh. Now that's
why everybody, I think almost everybody's gone into partnerships, because
you have so many wealthy people in the industry, and uh,
they they get together four of them and Uh, the
horse should be two hundred thousand dollars and it's going
(04:56):
to be five or six hundred thousand. Two of those
groups wanted because it's small money to them when it's
a partnership in particular, right.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
I was also very pleased to see the way that
the King of the North sold over at Lexington, being
this is his first crop.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yeah, they were strong. They were strong. But we're still
tend to be a first crop industry, and if the
horse is well thought of, the first crop prices tend
to be a little bit a little bit high as
compared to let's say down Under, where they don't generally
buy first crop. They want to wait and see how
(05:36):
the horses hit. Were the opposite correct? Now? Now move
moving along here.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Is there any updates on the business blend that you
spent several weeks working on.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Oh, I'm going to get I think that was a setup. Well,
you know, we completed a draft of it and we're
trying to circulate it and see what comes from it.
The difficulty is that when we have preliminary conversations with
the people you need to support this in the industry,
(06:12):
there isn't support. But the industry is blocked by leadership
that doesn't want to get behind what is necessary to
make this industry work. The USPA focuses on issues that
don't relate to the future of the industry as it
(06:33):
is now. I mean they relate. They focus on highs
that they focus on various small initiatives. They don't focus
on the major issue, which is, we're an industry owned
by resinos, by casinos, and they all want us to perish,
and there has to be something that's done proactively to
(06:57):
try to turn that around. Or all these highs of issues,
there's all these other issues that they're trying to push
aren't going to be relevant. All these things are relevant
only if you have a solid cord or an industry.
We don't have that. And there should be a you know,
a committee formed by the USJA or by the industry.
It's going to specifically focus on the issue would be coupling,
(07:19):
and specifically focus on outreaching and trying to get specific
protections in certain states. You may have possibilities with some
tracks that are that are that are old to get
them landmarked in a way that would save them. There's
certainly ways to raise money in the industry, and I
think outside the industry. The problem again is that you
(07:41):
don't get cooperation from the key players you need it.
The thing that's frustrating is that you have an industry
that is, and I don't mean to insult anyone that
I'm speaking generally, it's an industry that's run by horse people,
and it's an industry that shouldn't be run by horse people.
(08:01):
You don't have any significant industry that is managed and
run by specifically the people that grew up in that industry.
You don't have, in general in the sports field, leagues
being run by stars. You have them being run by
people that can get the job done because of different expertise.
(08:23):
When you go to a business, you go to a
company when IBM was failing, they went outside. You look
for specific expertise that's there to address the problems that
industry has, and horse racing doesn't do that because it
sticks with its own And no matter how great you
are as a horseman and what accolades you had, what
(08:46):
accomplishments you had, it doesn't mean that you can address
the business problems that assent the industry and the strategic problems.
And we haven't gotten the right people in the right
positions to address the issues that have to be addressed
to save the industry from really significant to climb right.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
And one of the first things that really definitely needs
to be done with the United States TRY and Association
is that.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
They need the board cut down. They need to get
that board down from sixty down to eight twelve at
the most.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
That's the first thing that needs to be done.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yeah, but that's that's like so many things in this industry.
That's obvious. But the big board size protects the current management.
If you get the board size down, it creates the
possibility for change. In any organization, they don't want change.
They want to protect their jobs for now. They want
(09:42):
to have their internal power and they recognize that if
you're going to have to try to change management with
a sixty member plus board, it's split up into different
years of reelection that it's a massive and timely task.
If you had a small board that would be functional,
especially with some outside directors like any normal company would have,
(10:03):
it wouldn't be protective of the usk management the whole.
It ties into what I was discussing before. Nothing is
structured for the betterment of the industry. It's structured for
the betterment of certain people who like their jobs, aren't
doing their jobs well and want to protect their jobs.
And that's sad, and we're seeing the results of it
(10:24):
because nothing is proactively being done to address or or
or help the industry. Now.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
The other thing, Gordon uh recently, like the USCA has
fined and suspended several prominent readers and owners or drug
related finds.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Of what are what are your thoughts on that? You know,
are you really trying to get me in trouble? I
think I think that uh, you know, what, what Diamond
Creek and what what Eric Harry did for hal was unwise,
and I think if you ask them, they probably would
(11:06):
regret what they had done. But was it something that
should have been addressed the way that it was? I
think most reasonable people would say no, those are people
that are crucial to our industry, that have done a
tremendous amount for our industry and perhaps exhibited bad judgment
in the instance. But really, what the USA should have done?
(11:26):
I know because I'm friendly with Eric, and I know
that they did not really try to settle the erituary
issue quietly and in the right way. I mean, if
Eric in the breeding end of the business, assumed, perhaps incorrectly,
(11:48):
that what he was doing was okay, and the USA
discovered that they didn't like what they saw. They had
to pick up the phone. They had to say Eric, well,
you're doing something that's wrong. You've done a lot in
the industry. We don't see any benefit in publishing this.
Let's come to an internal agreement as to how you
(12:09):
got to rectify it, and you won't do it again.
It could have all been done the same with Diamond Creek.
There's no need to pick on people who, by the way,
happen to be major breeders, especially in a state competitive
with Hanover shoe and I just leave the implication there.
I'm not making an accusation, but again, it's a bad
look for the sport. It's a bad look for Hanover.
(12:30):
It looks as if the USJA is going after people
that are breeding in competition with Hanover. And certainly the
problem in the industry isn't that breeders are hidden, They're
not racing. We have a racing issue. We have a
drugging issue. There are multiple trainers that everybody knows are drugging,
and nothing is being done about those trainers. Instead, they
(12:53):
focus on breeders. Nothing could happen to endanger racing because
of an improper alliance of breeders because that horse eventually
has to get registered, and if the race horse can't
be registered, the harm can't be done to the racing
end of it. So really it was just sort of
(13:13):
a personal attack on Diamond Creek and Eric Cherry that
didn't serve anyone's interesting.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
But god, it wasn't it After the facts though, weren't
they disassociated with Cervik at that particular point that they
were going on. You know, the information it wasn't current,
it was old information, and I don't know all the details.
I don't know, you know, who would trust on these issues.
But whether it was or not, it was wrong. And
(13:41):
the other thing, in particular of Eric Cherry's it was
really wrong was that.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
The USTA stalled the process, allowing themselves time to raise
the penalty that would occur. There was a limitation on
the penalty of the ten thousand dollars, and the initial
committee finding in the USGA was that there should be
a fine of ten thousand or less because that was
(14:05):
what their guidelines were. By stalling, they enabled a change
to the guidelines, and a month after they changed the guidelines,
they came out with the over over the top financial
penalty to Eric Chenry, which they could easily have done
at any point in time during the more than one
year investigation that they had. It was just morally wrong,
(14:28):
and I think from a legal perspective, it was challengeable,
and Eric doesn't want to create more waves and he
doesn't want to hurt the industry. I'm not sure if
it were I that I wouldn't have done something because
it was just wrong. You can't. You can't have a
year and a half investigation under certain rules that are
in place at the time, stretched the investigation out, and
(14:51):
then and then change the rules and say, okay, now
you've got to pay more. That's just basically fundamentally wrong.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
But you know, one of the other issu us is
dealing with the broodmare's. Everyone that I spoke to they
didn't know that an owner of a broodmare had to
be licensed.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yeah, I think that's fair. I think that That's why
I think it would have been better to perhaps bring
out the facts and use it as an example, but
not a penalty, because it wasn't something really on the radar.
If somebody is prevented from training or driving or owning
(15:33):
a race horse because of something that they did, it's
not immediately obvious that they can't own a broodmare because
the block is to racing. The effect that the danger
is to the perception and to the reality of the racing.
Owning a broodmare does not impact that. So making a
big public humiliation of major players because of something on
(15:58):
the breeding end was unwall eyes, unnecessary and really achieve nothing.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Okay, Gordon, this is my last question, my last question
to get you into more troubles. Okay, I have no
doubt you have just been elected to the bizarre of harnitration.
What is the first thing that you would do resign?
I thought you might say, go.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Out the.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
First thing I would really, honestly, the first thing I
would do after resigning, I don't know. I I would
do everything I could to create a ground swell from
the ground up.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
The industry needs to be unified. The reason it's not
unified is because you have the wrong person at the
top who feeds on the dissension within the industry. You
have to bring the drivers, the trainers, the owners, the
big owners, the small owners. You have to bring everybody
in under the same tent, and not everyone's going to
agree with each other or with what will end up
(17:04):
being the direction, but everyone has to feel they have
input and there has to be an answer given when
something they recommend isn't done, and it has to be
a reasonable answer, not a political answer. And you have
to cut down the board. You have to have accountability.
You have to bring in people that can address the
problems that you have, because you have problems in so
(17:24):
many different fronts. So I think the first thing you
have to do is exhibit and create leadership in the
industry that they can make it move. There's so many problems.
It's great to see that the Red Mile is going
to have the Breeder's Crown in twenty twenty seven. All
I can say is they better fix up the facility
because the Red Mile needs if it's going to house
(17:47):
successfully the Breeder's Crown, they need to really do some
work there to make it what it should be. And
it easily could be. It's a showpiece facility, but it
needs a lot of work to enable the grandstand and
and and what they have to to really shine the
way that you would like but there's so many things
(18:07):
in the in the industry. I think, Uh, I that's
why I start with the big picture, because I don't.
I think what what our industry has done is always
look at the small picture, look at the you know,
the trees, and lose lose vision of the forest. I
think you have to start with the big picture. Know
(18:29):
where you want to go with the big picture. Look
at the six or seven big picture issues that are
a problem. The casino ownership, dwindling, attendance, dwindling handled sort
of boring races. Uh, A weakness on the in the
middle and lower markets. Uh, you have, you have, you
have so many different issues. You've got to pick five
(18:53):
or six major ones and really attack them. But do
it in a unified fashion completely. That's the real key.
And nothing can get done now because you speak whatever
whatever initiatives you're going to try to create, is it's
gonna you know, have half the industry support it and
half the industry oppose it. And the head of the
(19:14):
USJ is going to push that division. And that has
that has to end it if anything good is going
to happen, all right, anything else you want to go
work for me with now, with that I'll end the show. Gordon.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
I want to thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Thank you good.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
This week's Harness Race and Alumni Show is brought to
you by the Metal Lands Racetrack. Visit Playmeetlands dot com.
Hunterton Farms selling their consignment at the Upcome in Harrisburg
Sale November three through the seventh. Visit Huntertonfarm dot com.
October twelfth is the last day to become a sponsor
(19:52):
for the Bill o'donald Tribute. To become a sponsor, visit
us strats dot com. Okay, that's a wrap for this
week's Thanks for listening and please join us again next
week
Speaker 2 (20:05):
The hun Is Racing Alumni Show
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