Kellen gave this film 10 out of 10 - Mulholland Drive (2001)

Harken! The mountain's four wise men/women left the summit to discuss David Lynch's Mulholland Drive! Released in 2001, the film stars Naomi Watts, Laura Harring, Justin Theroux, and many others. It was filmed in the United States and was distributed by Universal Pictures! Enjoy your monthly trip to Shaolin.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everybody.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
This is justin the hoary Urchin and before we start
our show, i'd like to remind you to like and
subscribe to our podcast on iTunes. Please give us a ranking,
preferably all the stars, and give us a view, preferably glowing.
We'd also like to talk to all of our listeners
and answer any questions that you all might have, For example,
why do this or for what purpose? Or will Erica

(00:22):
ever find love? Well?

Speaker 3 (00:23):
Email us at the Heavenly Mandate all one word, the
Heavenly Mandate at gmail dot com. That's the Heavenly Mandate
at gmail dot com. And maybe you can be that
special someone Erica has been looking for. Without further ado,
onto the show.

Speaker 4 (00:41):
It's bad news. It's travel news. Watch up the group
of men.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
That's fine, you.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Saved me. I have nothing to welcome to you, Welcome
to the Welcome to the Heavily Mandate. In the early nineties,
David Lynch and Mark Frost created one of the most

(01:12):
important television series of all time, David Lynch's Twin Peaks.
Suppose you like modern precige TV. In that case, you
owe that to this series. Twin Peaks single handily exploded
the boundaries of what people would tolerate and what director
producers could achieve if given the freedom to do so.

(01:33):
In Lynch on Lynch, a book of interviews with the director,
David Lynch talks about what he saw as the failures
of TV in the nineteen sixties, seventies, and eighties. He
spoke of TV violence. Here we get to look at
Law and Order, where most episodes begin with the dead body. However,
it's just a prop. It serves no greater purpose than
to incite the investigation, and forty five minutes later, the

(01:57):
mystery is resolved. Day after after a day, month after month,
year after year, American audience consumed disposable death. Twin Peaks
takes the formula and redirects it. The show begins with
the murder of Laura Palmer, a popular, well liked high
school student, and offers the viewer a mystery. However, as

(02:17):
Lynch reveals, quote, the mystery of who killed Laura Palmer
was the foreground, but this would received slightly as you
got to know the other people in town and the
problems they were having. End quote, it wasn't just about
the murder and death, but about the cascading consequences of
his I've heard of this particular death, and through this

(02:38):
we would encounter a deeper, richer, weirder, and more humane world.
This approach seemed to work. The show was a hugely
pop was hugely popular, beloved, and a cultural phenomenon. However,
by the start of season two, ABC executives, under audience pressure,
forced Lynch and Frost to reveal who killed Laura. Lynch
hated this because quote the the mystery was the magical

(03:01):
ingredient end quote, Fans and executives killed the goose that
laid the golden age. They got their answer, they turned
off their brains, shut down their inner detectives, and moved on.
Lynch left shortly after the direct Wild at Heart and
the second season would be the last for a very
long time. Later in the nineteen In the late nineties,

(03:23):
ABC asked Lynch to create a TV pilot for a
show called Maholland Drive. Eventually, they forced him to cut
it too quickly and too awkwardly. The executives washed it
and when they and when they didn't like what they saw,
they canceled it. Later, an executive at Studio Canal asked
to see what they had filmed and gave Lynch to
turn it into a film. Today, the heavily mandate descended

(03:47):
from our mountain abode, momentarily forsaking our Kung fu studies
to review two thousand and ones Maholland Drive. Directed by
David Lynch. The film stars Naomi Watts, Laura Herring, Justin
Thurreau and many others. I am just in the hoary
urgent and joining to me day is the drunken master himself, Kellen.
How are you doing? Man?

Speaker 4 (04:06):
Better than one might think given the circumstances.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
Thank you, Josh. The Daly's venom is here is what's
what's cracking lacking in?

Speaker 1 (04:14):
I just went for the to clear the air between us.
That is considered one of the finest espressos in the world.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
And Erica, Lady Desk stabbed the black widow is Max
and then relaxing all bricked up behind the Novay ma
in Novy, Michigan. Ericat you peep in.

Speaker 5 (04:37):
I don't even know what to say anymore?

Speaker 1 (04:40):
Peeping?

Speaker 5 (04:41):
What is yeah?

Speaker 4 (04:43):
Okay, don't just keep going, just keep you peeping?

Speaker 1 (04:47):
Accepted, I just accepted.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
Bricked Up is a term for having a lot of
drugs with you. But also erect.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
Solid, which could apply to Erica.

Speaker 5 (04:59):
Yeah, well that sounds appropriate for my circumstances. I'm looking
forward to talking about this one. I when I saw
this two and a half hour David Lynch movie, I was.

Speaker 4 (05:12):
Just like, oh no, And the next thing it was history.

Speaker 5 (05:19):
Yep, yep.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
Fed gives you some type of like weird high response.
I mean for me, it literally just makes me not
be decongested.

Speaker 4 (05:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (05:32):
Yes, I did comment earlier that I was on Suda
fed and therefore is a little bit irritable. But I
like it because suggestion. But yeah for making match also
but no, because it's like way better than like day quill,
you know what I mean. I have to say, like
I you know, I take da quill, I don't think
anything changes, and I take Sudi fed, and all of

(05:52):
a sudden I feel better and I have energy. It
gives you energy, you know. But also but then but then,
but then on a strong For me though, I'm finding
recently that like if I had to like stand up
and do like physical activity, I get really dizzy. Like
yesterday was movie no, and I almost like fell over.

(06:13):
I was like carrying a cabinet at the stairs with
my housemate, and I did feel like I was gonna
black out, which is pretty terrifying, but I was fine.
And yeah, it doesn't make you like, at least me,
it makes kind of irritable. So I don't think I'm
going to take a lot more suited right, because.

Speaker 4 (06:28):
It keeps you up and weakens you at the same time.
It's a bad combo.

Speaker 5 (06:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
Yeah, So speaking of mulhalland Dry.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, so Kelen and Erica, this is your first time
watching the film?

Speaker 5 (06:45):
Correct, this is my first time watching any David Lynch.

Speaker 4 (06:48):
Oh great, I'm aware of I've seen this movie. I've
watched other David Lynch movies, just not you. You didn't,
but Josh has forced me to before.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
Can also put on the record that executives always ruined everything.

Speaker 4 (07:05):
Yeah, yeah, sure, I'm made an executive and I would
have made all this shit a lot better.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
I forced to watch Blue Velvet. I think maybe the.

Speaker 4 (07:16):
Elephant Man, No, not an Elephant Man. We watched Blue Velvet,
which I had already seen part of in uh freshman
film school. It was pretty mid and then we watched
Lost Highway, which I actually got a little bit more
interested in. I don't remember exactly what my final thoughts were,
but it didn't leave a bad taste in my mouth, so.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
I think it is highly regarded, but it's it's actually
not one of my favorite David Lynch movies.

Speaker 4 (07:44):
I think they it's an excellent example of how to
teach freshman dipshit's basics of film, so they use it
as a as a prerequisite type of thing. But no,
it's I remember even then going this feels a little
bit over the top, as like a hit you on
the head with the basics type of movie. Yeah, I

(08:04):
didn't Other than that, David Lynch's Dune Atrocity is the
only other thing I've seen.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
By him to be fair, I mean, well, yeah, we
wanted to say that Dune is a great example of
not enough creative control but also simultaneously way too much.

Speaker 5 (08:24):
I mean, going in like, I I obviously know who
David Lynch is, especially since we're doing this and like
the wake of his death a few weeks ago, But
I don't know. I just think I saw him as
sort of like a an artsy film director, and maybe
one that was I think I had idea that he

(08:46):
was like had a lot of violent tendencies and stuff
and would just violence. Yeah, and I mean I didn't
person Yeah, I didn't really think he was going to
be my cue.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
So even though you love Gorez a couple of LSD
to he drank like twenty cups of coffee a day. Yeah,
very stray laced in terms of like drug use. He did.
He did love his cigarettes though, which probably killed him.

Speaker 4 (09:20):
A bit too much. A bit too much.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
He tells a biography. He tells a funny story about
trying marijuana for the first time and you're driving like
forty miles an hour down a highway towards Boston, and
that's how.

Speaker 4 (09:34):
Lost Highway happened. Right there. That's the whole story behind
that movie.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
No, it's interesting. You know, David Lynch is someone I
knew David Lynch from Twin Peaks, but it was kind
of Josh in high school getting me back, and damn,
I think you were referencing in some of your short
films that you were making at that point.

Speaker 4 (09:53):
Josh, Yeah, he definitely was. I even I even remember him,
know that.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
Yeah, he's one of my favorites.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yeah. Yeah, you know a director who's been I think
near and dear to my heart for a while thanks
to Josh, but also earlier to Twin Peaks with my
grandma letting me watch it with her.

Speaker 4 (10:12):
Your grandmother and the allowances you got continuing a continuing
wonder on this.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
That took you to watch Brown Stuarts Dracula.

Speaker 4 (10:23):
Yeah, and the hobo fights at the fucking rail yards.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
I love my grandma's grandma.

Speaker 1 (10:32):
Yeah, she sounds like she was a cool grandma.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
One of the things.

Speaker 4 (10:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
Well, you know, so since he passed away, I've been
going back and reading a lot. I read. I read
his biography, and I read this whole book of essays.
And one of the things that's really fascinating about him
is the way in which he takes these moments from
his childhood. Callen reference Lost Highway Erica. That's a much
more violent film than Yeah, but he's in his biography

(11:03):
he talks about going hunting with his dad in in
Idaho and leaving at the mid like the middle of
the night. So it's big sky country, right, and they're
the only car on this dark highway, and he tells
a story about seeing these lights on the highway. The
only light you're seeing is the movement of you know,

(11:25):
the lines on the road and that's something that always
shows up in his films. So it's interesting how like
he's able to draw from his childhood. But the story
is really fascinating. But he ends with his dad jumping
out of the car chasing a porcupine and him and
like twelve year old David Lynch running through the woods
with the shotgun trying to kill this porcupine. Why because

(11:46):
his dad was an arborist.

Speaker 4 (11:50):
Trees. Yeah, yeah, porcupine, they're fucking yeah, they're ship for that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:57):
But it sounds like he has a really interesting childhood
shows up in really weird ways in a lot of
I mean.

Speaker 4 (12:03):
David Lynch is the kind of person who could only
have had incredibly weird or the most banal childhood. Ever,
there's no he can't have lived in anywhere in a
medium space. There had to have been extreme weirdness or
very mind numbing normality, I would say.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
And the last thing we'll say about David Lynch is
he was a babeman. Ladies loved David. Why it's so crazy?

Speaker 4 (12:31):
I mean, I guess I'm not that surprised, but.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
Expariently five times yeah, well.

Speaker 4 (12:38):
Okay, that can happen to a lot of people orange
chick magnets.

Speaker 6 (12:41):
So.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
Ladies too. It's really strange. Is something about his demeanor
made ladies wrap their pants?

Speaker 4 (12:52):
Yeah, probably because he sat there waxing philosophical long enough
to do it and then didn't really have enough abstance
to back up the stuff he was babbling about.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
I love that his like, his pitch was I'll marry
He never wanted to get married, but he would marry
these ladies. But his pitch was always like, I'll marry you,
but my art comes first and you just have to
be okay with it, And like, ladies just went along
with it.

Speaker 4 (13:19):
He did as long as that's.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
He was married like five times. Yeah, and then there
were other relationships to that. It didn't didn't lead to
marriage necessarily.

Speaker 5 (13:29):
So I guess, you know, we could I feeling we
could talk about David Lynch's life for a long time.
But at the end of the day is my assessment
of who he was before I watched this movie correct,
which was that he was this kind of like artistic
film director who was violent.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
And I wasn't violent, No, not him.

Speaker 5 (13:53):
His movie VI and maybe, you know, I thought it
was a kind of strange. I don't know, much about them,
but having like, I think, what me off while? I
didn't watch them more because I had this idea they'd
be very violent and I don't really like that.

Speaker 4 (14:05):
I don't, I think, not at all. But I think
it's universal.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
No Erica, he would he had this thing in the
eighties where he would like dissect animals and he take
all the skin off their bones and all the flesh,
and he would you would sell kits of the bones
that you could put back together as a build your
own fish or build your own bird kit.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
Know about that. It's awesome?

Speaker 4 (14:33):
Okay, well, Erica, you might be a little bit more correct,
I guess of that.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
Shall we jump into this one?

Speaker 5 (14:42):
Yes, we had, you know, two and a half hours
of material together.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
So the film begins with a car crash on Muholland Drive.
A dark haired woman is in the backseat of limousine
driving through the winding roads of Maholland Drive at night.
The car suddenly stops and the driver prepares to execute her,
but before they can act, another car speeds down the
road crashes into them, killing the would be assassin and

(15:10):
leaving a disoriented woman behind. Staggering away from the wreck,
she makes her way down to Los Angeles, eventually hiding
in an apartment. So this is the beginning of the film, Erica,
what are you thinking?

Speaker 5 (15:23):
Well, I thought that, I mean the beginning of this film.
And as we go a little bit further, I think
the first thing I texted you guys, and I'm like,
what did I say? I feel like I'm watching a
movie that thinks it's a film, you know what I mean?
Like this is this is a movie that's gonna take

(15:43):
this is a movie that's gonna take it yourself very seriously.
You know. There's just like the drive up through you know,
the Hollywood Hills and move Holland Driver or whatever is
very long. These scenes are I mean, I think you're
asking me a little prematurely to get my opinioned because
this is a very short scene. Or no, maybe it's
a very long one. But not much happens sitting how
much time we invest watching things happen. So there was

(16:07):
a pace that I was like, Okay, I'm still gonna
be playing on my phone throughout this because I can't
just sit and watch this that long.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
Yeah, pretty read I mean about the death of the
American attention span.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
Yeah, no, I contribute that.

Speaker 4 (16:26):
Oh I'm sorry, wait, justin the what the whata's attendance?

Speaker 1 (16:33):
Man is about eighty minutes?

Speaker 2 (16:35):
Yeah, wait, that's so funny.

Speaker 5 (16:39):
That's actually quite generous of you.

Speaker 4 (16:42):
I mean this is like movies that are two hours long.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
So certain film certain films, certainly boring ones. I mean,
I love Okay, I don't see I I always found
the beginning of the movie very like moody and like atmospheric,
and you don't you don't quite know what's happening. You

(17:08):
get this random lady and the lady, uh, should I
just call her Rita? Accuse her name? Yes, Rita is
played by Laura Herring, who is just gorgeous and like exotic,
and you don't quite know exotic.

Speaker 4 (17:27):
You think she's serious, Yeah, yeah, mysterious and.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
She's gonna get shot and then you have this crash
and uh, it really pulls you into It's really disorienting.
Have any of you ever been to Hollywood? Have you
been on Mahalan Drive.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
I've not been on Mahan Drive.

Speaker 4 (17:45):
I've been to LA and I have never been to California.

Speaker 5 (17:48):
The thing is, I don't know if I've been to
like muhalland drive per se But I did do one
of those like uh, movie star like home tours and
which nobody is shocked about, right, and they take you
to like the Hollywood Hills. I think it's in the
Hollywood Hills. And honestly, those drives I remember being quite
uncomfortable driving them, and like this is like, you know,

(18:10):
this is LA This is you know, like not a
place as known for being like dangerous. But I when
we're thinking to myself, even if I had a whole
bunch of money and I wanted to live in LA,
I would not want to live in the hills. Like
it's too much, it's too windy every day driving that
no way.

Speaker 4 (18:27):
Oh yeah, quite steep from what I I mean.

Speaker 5 (18:31):
People like that that's a desirabl place to live, and
I was like, no, thank you.

Speaker 4 (18:35):
It kind of gets you above the smog that kind
of thing. Perhaps, I mean, I think, yeah, this is
a very old school beginning, which I was. That's literally
the first note that I took down. Wow, these are
some old school credits. I do not miss these, Like
oh sweet, let's open with three minutes. That's basically just

(18:58):
b roll while we put credits on screen as you
wait for the story.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
To happen, and that used to be the standard. It
wasn't wasn't didn't George Lucas get in trouble for for heid.

Speaker 4 (19:11):
He paid for that. He paid to not do any
of that when he did the first Star Wars because
he was like, no, this is the story. I don't
We're not crediting people. It's about what my thing is.

Speaker 1 (19:21):
So he claimed that the entire movie was like the intro. Yeah,
basically for the credits, because he always used to put
the credits at the beginning. Yeah, yeah, you did.

Speaker 4 (19:33):
I mean at one point you were required to put
them completely at the beginning. This is the early nineties,
so it's kind of that transition period, but it was
still kind of standard sure to do that, and it
doesn't you know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (19:45):
Colin Drive is twenty one miles long.

Speaker 4 (19:48):
I can believe it, Yeah, because it just goes back
up and down the face of those mountains. I'm sure, and.

Speaker 5 (19:55):
I'm looking it up. And David Lynch has described it
as one can feel that history of Hollywood on it.
There's a reason he's picked.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah, we should talk about sort of the I mean,
it's a it's a it's a film about Hollywood. It's
it's connected to a much older film, Sunset Boulevard. In fact,
a lot of the shots and even some of the
cars that show up in the film have references to
that film, and I think it's so it's it's interesting
because Erica, I looked up this once upon a time,

(20:28):
I looked up the map Hollywood. The Muhollan Drive leads
up to the Hollywood sign, or leads up right below
the Hollywood sign. Is that that's where it terminates.

Speaker 4 (20:37):
So this is the road to Hollywood. This is the
literal road to Hollywood. I get it. That's fine to
you guys.

Speaker 5 (20:45):
Earlier that I've been, you know, watching nine or two
and overruns. So I'm very much in an l A
vibe these days.

Speaker 4 (20:53):
An l a state of mind.

Speaker 5 (20:54):
L A state of mind.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
There you go.

Speaker 5 (20:56):
Although I don't love La No.

Speaker 4 (20:59):
No one loves l nobody, not even the people who
live there. That's one of those cities. That's one of
those cities that famously nobody truly wants to live in.
It's just the second largest city in the country by default.

Speaker 5 (21:12):
I don't know about that. A lot of people want
to live in.

Speaker 4 (21:14):
La well, like not after they lived there for three months. Well,
many people think they want to live in LA until
they've been to LA or been forced to live there
for some time, and then it's it seems to be
well like a mobius strip, a trap, I think, is
what a lot of people might say. I will say
one thing. Rita is in phenomenal shape after a wreck

(21:38):
of that caliber of a car, just basically running over
another one access of forty miles an hour. She looks
pretty good. She gets out of there pretty unscathed, all
things concerned. And then is really her Josh has a doctor.
I'm sure you can confirm this for me. Those are
some great places to fall down into take a nap.

Speaker 5 (22:03):
Well, and that's where you're like, I was just not
okay and sleeping in the bushes head But.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
She's not a good cheese, so it's fine.

Speaker 4 (22:16):
Then I got into an apartment. I'm gonna go under
the table. I'll be good here. I'm going back to ye.

Speaker 5 (22:21):
Then she makes her way and she finds shelter in like,
she sneaks into an apartment, a really nice one, all right,
continue the story.

Speaker 4 (22:33):
But she's in the Hollywood Hills. The odds are whichever
place she found was going to be pretty all right.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
I'm not going to go like blow by a blow,
but I'm going to try to no, okay, so.

Speaker 4 (22:44):
There's no way to do so.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
Major section of the film basically revolves around a character
arriving in Los Angeles for the first time. We learned
that Betty Elms, who was a bright eyed, aspiring actions
actress from Deep River, Ontario, arrives at Lax brimming with
enthusiasm and optimism. Oh yeah, is staying at her aunt

(23:06):
Ruth's apartment while Ruth is away filming in Canada. And
it's in this apartment that Betty first meets Rita, who
is suffering from probably a concussion amnesia due to the
craft that and she doesn't remember her real name. Rita
takes her name from a guilda movie poster featuring Rita Hayworth.

Speaker 5 (23:29):
And I think it's worth I think it's worth discussing
how they actually meet because I thought about this, because yeah,
oh no, no, no, let me finish, because it's funny
when you asked what I thought about the movie, because
I mentioned, you know that I didn't like it until
a certain point in the movie, and right before that point,
the scene that happened. No, I'll talk about that later.

(23:52):
I really was getting annoyed with why they chose that scene,
but now I understand it, and now this makes sense.
So when so Rita is decided she's gonna like squat
there for a while, so she is showering, and then
when this Betty comes in with blonde hair, bushy eye
and everything, she's surprised to find a stranger like the

(24:12):
in the shower and you see, like it's a clear shower,
you see, like you know, like one thing you talked
about with how Rita looked. Her energy is very sexual,
like she's a beautiful woman, but like that's her like vibe,
you know what I mean. There's a seduction to it,
seductiveness to it. So when we first meet her, when
Betty first meets her, she is in the shower and

(24:33):
you can see her body, you know, through like the glass,
and she's like, oh my god, I didn't know you
were in here. And it's such an interesting reaction because
I don't know, if I was going to stay at
my aunt's house expecting to be there alone and there
was somebody in there, if I would be like I
guess they'd be apologetic as opposed to, who the hell
are you do? You know what I mean? But she
was very nice to him.

Speaker 4 (24:54):
I'd be very that's a I mean, that's that's yet
another bullet point on here. I'm like, I don't like
my first reaction to coming into a relative's house that
I expected to stay on my own be like, hey,
naked stranger, what are you doing here? I don't know
if that would be my first immediate reaction. She's she's pretty,
she's pretty chill about it in an odd way.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
Well she's Canadian, I mean right.

Speaker 4 (25:18):
Yeah, they're pretty accepting overall.

Speaker 5 (25:21):
She asks very little questions where she's like, what's your
name and there's no answer. She's like, you know what,
I don't want to bother you. We'll talk later.

Speaker 4 (25:30):
Off, don't worry.

Speaker 5 (25:32):
I mean, yeah. You know what's funny. Maybe she's because
she's Canadian, because she's just like, oh my god, you
poor thing, you have anisia. Let me help you. I'm
totally there for you. Feel free to stay. Would you
like a snag?

Speaker 2 (25:42):
You know?

Speaker 5 (25:43):
And like all of a sudden Sandwich new friendship where
Betty has decided she is going to like make Rita
her new project and it is going to help her
figure out who she is.

Speaker 4 (25:55):
Yeah, it's a it's a very it's a surprisingly neutral
reaction into it to a very unusual situation.

Speaker 1 (26:04):
Would have never happened if Betty was from Boston in
New York.

Speaker 4 (26:09):
Well, that that bit should be out the fucking window
in a minute.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
Now.

Speaker 5 (26:15):
One thing that I want to bring up, which I
we met a few other people, I want to bring
up Coco. Do you guys know Like when I was
watching the credits, I was like, Anne Miller? Is that
Anne Miller? Do you guys know who Anne Miller is?
Before this movie? Did you know who she was?

Speaker 4 (26:36):
I know she's some kind of legacy actress, but I'm
not positive who she is.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
I feel like I've seen her, but I couldn't pinpoint
where she was from.

Speaker 5 (26:45):
Anne Miller was in all the old Hollywood musicals. She
is an amazing dancer. She was like the leading Kiss
Me Kate. She was in Easter Parade, she was in
on the Town and she's a phenomenal dancer. And I
saw the and I was like wait what and then
and then and I when I saw her like as

(27:07):
like an older woman playing this is like, oh well
that that's definitely an miller, you know, But I don't know.
I just thought that was really interesting. I didn't know
she was in this. I didn't know she was still
acting at this time. She died a few years later,
but I thought that was interesting. I didn't expect she
did see her.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
Yeah, this was her last movie.

Speaker 4 (27:24):
Oh yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
Was the last movie.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
Yeah, you're getting kind of in the first like ten
to fifteen minutes of this movie, you're getting bombarded with
a lot of old Hollywood references, and it's clearly like
when I remember, you know, just having to stop and
think when I first watched it, because I don't know,
like I didn't by that point my first when I
seen this, I hadn't seen Sunset Boulevard, or I hadn't
seen like I hadn't seen Gilda, and these are movies

(27:50):
i'd watched later. But I feel like, unless you have
a sense of what old Hollywood was, a lot of
like the subtext, it's kind of hard to pick up
at times in this movie.

Speaker 4 (28:00):
I'm sure, yeah, yeah, for.

Speaker 5 (28:02):
Sure, so real weird random pause here, but like I
saw the musical of Sunset Boulevard last year, like at
a community theater. Is the movie a musical?

Speaker 1 (28:12):
No?

Speaker 5 (28:12):
Or did they make a musical out of the movie.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
They made a musical out of the movie.

Speaker 5 (28:16):
Okay, it's an antiloid Webber musical and uh yeah, okay,
so the music, the music.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
Is fine, but the original movie is not a musical,
got it?

Speaker 2 (28:30):
Okay? The movie is a noir. Is a film noir.
Guild is a film noir, and this film is taking
on the trapping very very NOI ish.

Speaker 4 (28:38):
Yeah, I mean, at least as far as the setup.
I wouldn't say esthetically, it's not in that vein I
thought I thought it would be. I thought that was
kind of going to be, at least the conceit under
which it was filmed, and it's not. It's it's a
little bit more generically shot actually than I thought it
would be. It did remind me of two things, which

(28:59):
is not movies. Two things are reminded me. One is
that Australians can fake any Anglophone access they want almost
perfectly every time. So if you want to get someone
to act and play anything where English is their first
speaking language, you can just hire an Australian and they
can do it.

Speaker 1 (29:21):
Australian she is although Nicole Kidman is.

Speaker 4 (29:27):
How do you guys say her name? Okay, I'm debating
whether that's I don't know how she says it. I
don't know either, But like Jordan Breeding, who I watch
on YouTube, always says Naomi Watts. I just he just did.
He just did the Ring recap this week and he

(29:49):
always says Naomi. And I'm like, that is a way
to pronounce that name. I know it is. I wonder
if that's like the standard way in Australia to pronounce it.
He's American, he lives down south. I'm like, or is
that how the Southerners pronounce it? Or are we all
wrong and none of us have it correct? So I
was just curious if anybody knew how to say.

Speaker 1 (30:06):
All I know is Ring two was a good movie.

Speaker 4 (30:11):
I'm not even sure the first one was anymore, and
second and second this movie is almost one thousand percent
why she got the role of Anne Darrow in Peter
Jackson's King Klow. I will virtually guarantee that the way
she plays the the newcomer to Hollywood, but back then

(30:33):
it would have been New York like yeah, Peter Jackson, Yeah,
it was like she can definitely play that.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
She tells the story of David Lynch talking into doing it.
David Lynch tells her, you know, the the actress that
winds up in King Kong's hand is remembered forever, and
that's what just convinced her to take the film.

Speaker 5 (30:57):
Well we meet real Coco is like the land lady.
She's very glamorous. You're right. I don't I don't know
if casting Anne Miller on maybe you're right, purposely because
she represents all Hollywood that would be that's a cool
I don't know. Easter egg is the word, but you know,
putting her in there because she looks like it. She's,
you know, like this glamorous older woman. She's got like

(31:19):
the curly cues like you know, pasted to her, like hair.

Speaker 4 (31:24):
Left and right again.

Speaker 5 (31:26):
I don't know, like were her you know her like
almost like girls like flamgca answers, and she's got a
lot of makeup and she just I don't know, I know,
it's terrible side curls. Well, I think everyone's a vision now.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
She's very red.

Speaker 5 (31:49):
You know, she's got the red lipstick in a full
may face like she's a classic woman. You're right, very
old Hollywood. So now I'm liking that there's like that
kind of like meta kind of aspect that she's Miller
playing Coco playing you know, version of.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
So not to belabor the plane, but I know, Naomi
Watch is really good in this, and I can see
why this is really the movie that made her a star.
Like I think the Bat, she's very infectious. She's she
plays that cheesy, g golly whiz kind of character really well.

Speaker 4 (32:23):
But then you know why because she has giant blue eyes.

Speaker 1 (32:26):
That don't.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
You know.

Speaker 4 (32:31):
But she does.

Speaker 5 (32:33):
I mean, now all things make more sense. But when
I was watching this, it was almost coming off like
I agree with you. And the amount of how she
changes in the range of what she's trans this film
is amazing. But that first scene that I know you're
thinking of, it's like so cheesy that I'm like, God,
this is bad acting, do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (32:54):
But it's done on purpose. Yeah, I know, I know.

Speaker 4 (32:57):
There's so much Yes, I like, I like, yeah, we're
going to appeal these back as they come out.

Speaker 5 (33:02):
Yeah, because I know exactly what you're thinking of. Justin
especially when she's meeting that old couple.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
I don't even know what the old couple was hilarious
and they're like riding in the taxi and then slapping.

Speaker 5 (33:14):
Yeah, that was weird.

Speaker 4 (33:16):
I don't know.

Speaker 7 (33:16):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
So we begin, we encounter the two main female leads,
Uh Betty and the eventual Rita. Betty becomes fascinated by
Rita's situation and decides to help her piece together her identity.
Rita finds a stack of cash and a mysterious blue
key in her purse, but has no recollection where they
came from, and they discover the name Diane Selwyn, which

(33:42):
seems familiar to Rita. Then, as Erica alluded to, we
get this strange interlude at a place called Winky's Diner. Yeah,
a man tells his friend about a recurring nightmare he
has had at Winky's Diner, involving a terrifying figure lurking
behind the restaurant. Erica, do what do you like to

(34:03):
describe this scene for the audience.

Speaker 5 (34:07):
It wasn't that interesting. It was just this like I mean,
I even watching it the second time. It moved very slowly,
and I was like, come on, I don't know what's
going on. I still don't know what's going on after
watching this, but I don't know who these people are,
and he's just telling this guy, I had this dream
we're in this diner. You're over there, but you're scared.
And then there's this like man in black who's watching

(34:29):
everything and he's terrifying and I never want to see
that man outside of my dreams again. I don't know
what to do with that information.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
See, that's so weird because when I watched that scene,
like the way in which it builds dread and anticipation
like really makes me anxious. It's just the anticipation, like
the linger the way it lingers, and the way it
slows down, and the way it cuts to like the
phone and then the door, and like the nervousness of
the character, and then you don't really expect it to happen,

(34:58):
but you kind of a this.

Speaker 4 (35:00):
Is very drawn out, like why, yeah, I mean, I
didn't that's I didn't okay, okay. Throughout the whole beginning
of the scene, I didn't get any of that. I
felt more as Erica is saying, like, yeah, I get it,
let's move on from whatever you're talking about. It was
only when I got when I got outside of the
building that I was like, Okay, now I'm starting to
feel like we're building up standard Hollywood tension of like

(35:23):
how are we holding on this? Why are we doing it?
I will say it makes it a little bit both
more and less effective in a setting like this, because one,
they're using pretty classic technique to make that happen. But
because I know this is a David Lynch movie, my
brain is also going or this could just be us

(35:46):
drawing out something for no particular reason as so nothing
might happen. So in a weird way, the jump scare
is more effective because I was like, whatever, it's gonna
move on and I'm not even gonna see anything. So
I got to the end of the very brightly lit Ellie,
but it was like, and we're gonna go to back
to some other storyline. I'm like, no surprise, here's an

(36:08):
actual jump scare. So it isn't a weird way, both
more and less effective, I guess.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
Because he doesn'tely do that where like he builds up
something and then there's nothing and then there's nothing. Right, Right,
here's the thing.

Speaker 5 (36:20):
Right, It's like, you know, justin jokes about the attention
span thing, and I don't know if I what I
justin jokes about attention spans right in mine especially, I
don't think I am the audience too. I don't have
the patience for this kind of build up. Okay, like
I cannot get through this shit. Okay, like I don't care,

(36:40):
I'm not interested enough. I did, but they didn't. But honestly,
he didn't have my undivided attention.

Speaker 1 (36:48):
He's gotten. Now you're talking about.

Speaker 5 (36:50):
Talking about it. It's not only the whole movie this section.
But here's here's what I'll say. My comment that I
made earlier about how I feel like I'm watching a
movie that wants to be called a film kind of thing,
exactly what I mean by that is, like I I
and I even said this yesterday, I don't think it's

(37:11):
a good thing because I am watching him with these
weirdly paced, drawn out scenes, these weird camera angles, things
going in and out of focus, and I'm thinking to myself,
I am watching a fucking film and quotation marks. Okay,
I don't want you know, you guys, especially Carollen likes
to talk about like film angles and styles and all
this stuff, But I don't actually care about that stuff.

(37:32):
I care about the story and most of the times,
I don't even think about that stuff. I you know, what,
what does this movie make me feel? What am I
thinking about it? And all of a sudden, I'm not
in the story. I'm watching what you're doing, and I
don't you know, And now I get it now. So
this is where I'm like, I'm not used to David Lynch,
and I'm starting to realize that his films are a puzzle, right,
Maybe that's yeah, I don't know. I don't know if

(37:53):
that's how all of them, this one is And I
will say I like puzzles. So now looking at it
from that angle, like this is a puzzle, so you know,
don't look at the film as a way to tell
a story, like like literally get lost in a story.
Look at his way to like find close to a mystery,

(38:13):
so I can get behind that. But as a first view.
When I I went in blind, which is what I wanted,
I don't. I was like, I don't even want to
look up what he's known for. I'm just gonna watch this.
I watched the trailer. Trailer didn't thrill me, but I'm like, okay.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
I'm like, I'm probably not didn't give away everything.

Speaker 2 (38:32):
Because in David's writing or all of his interviews, he
talks about the viewer being a detective a lot, So
I think that kind of speaks to what Eric is
talking about. For example, in Twin Peaks, the main character
is literally Dale Cooper, who is an FBI agent slash detective,
and you're supposed to follow him around to be his

(38:53):
like companion detective. So I think there's that element. I
think Eric, if you watched it again, I think you
would naturally go in in that direction. But it began
as a diner where it was across the street from
like it wasn't Paramount, it was one of the big
old classical studios, right, and the directors would go there
and have lunch, and Hollywood stars would come into that

(39:16):
diner to try to convince like Frank Capra to hire them.
So it against Hollywood landmark that has connections to this
old Hollywood system, and what lurks behind it, like is
is this is how David describes it in his writings,
connected to that kind of system, potentially the exploitation of

(39:39):
that system in a weird way.

Speaker 5 (39:41):
Before we move forward, there's one more thing I want
to say about the scene before this that we would
it fast on when you mentioned that the two women
like she discovers like that the mystery woman Rita, who
doesn't know who she is, has a bag of money
because they opened the bag to find her id and
all they find is a whole bunch of cash. And
then this weird looking blue key, not like a normal key,

(40:02):
like something like you find like a Da Vinci code novel,
almost damn brown, the fifth element.

Speaker 4 (40:08):
It feels like something fifth element.

Speaker 5 (40:10):
Now what I think is interesting, which we can return
to this later, but I want to point it out now.
They decide that like, well, there's no idea in there,
but you have a back of cash and you have
this weird looking key, and what she does and she's like, well,
let's hide it. So she takes the bag and she
puts it in a hat box and she puts it
in the back of the closet. And I just thought
that was a really interesting choice when we find out

(40:33):
what that means later to bury it, you know what
I mean?

Speaker 2 (40:39):
Oh yeah, go ahead, behind the you taking him to
poundtown Erica?

Speaker 5 (40:51):
Yeah no, not this time.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
On the Senji scale, what do we think about Rita here?

Speaker 4 (40:57):
She's pretty high.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
Both the main leads. Female actresses are pretty high on
those scales. Well, I'm very attractive ladies.

Speaker 8 (41:04):
Yeah, end of Sorry, Okay, moving forward to the next
brown they the two men investigate, only for the figure
a monstrous uh dirty being to suddenly appear, causing the
one man to collapse in fear.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
I I'm never uncertain if he dies or if.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
Yeah, it's yeah, it's not really clear.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
He does later in a different context. Meanwhile, one of
my favorite scenes of the movie. In another scene, a
hit man converses with a man about a blue team
a deeper possible.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
This is one of the greatest scenes.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
Yeah, I'm afraid I won't be able to do it justice.
But essentially, two hit men are having a conversation and
there's some really interesting stuff to alluded to in that.
In that conversation, it's they seem to be.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
Talking about the car accident.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
Car accident and he failed assassination.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
Of which is hilarious, so funny.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
One of the hit man killed the other hit man,
and there's this weird scene where like the hair is
sticking straight out straight.

Speaker 4 (42:17):
Yeah, it's just because they turned the shot sideways.

Speaker 1 (42:20):
Yeah, well it's it's actually not clear. It's not clear
yet the scumbags who know what's Yeah, he has some
office in this cheesy building.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
Yeah, so he tries to steal the guy's black book
and to make it look like a suicide. Right, like,
he shoots the gun.

Speaker 1 (42:39):
Into the wall. He absolutely shoots this. I had never
noticed before that, like until watching it this time, is
that she's working in another cheesy office and her office
just like selling vitamins. Yeah, like products, which is really funny.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
One of the funny line from the whole movie.

Speaker 4 (43:07):
Nothing bit me bad. It's then it's and then it
devolves into one catastrophic thing after it.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
Because okay, he's got to clean all this up and
somehow make both of these murders look like it's the
first one.

Speaker 4 (43:30):
It's like, it is what it is. Sorry, this is
lady here in the room.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
Where you committed suicide.

Speaker 4 (43:37):
And also and also with the janitor.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
Yeah, it shows up.

Speaker 4 (43:43):
I mean, Josh, Josh, you have to take us back
roughly twenty two years or so, when we were writing
a script.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
You may remember, which was inspired by the scene. Actually,
but was it that is my question. It was inspired
by the scene.

Speaker 4 (43:58):
When we were writing a scene from movie to potentially
be called water Tower Cats, which remains my email to
this day. Based on this single concept, we wrote an
extensive scene that went on for far longer than any
other one, in which a pair of Irish immigrant hit
men in Toronto kept having to cover up a succession

(44:20):
of worse and worse accidents while planning a hit they
had not even committed yet.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
It sounds like you need to make it.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
It was inspired by this gray scene.

Speaker 4 (44:31):
Okay, Well, see, I think you alluded to some David
lynchey and things, but I had not seen this and
did not know this, so I so I just more
or less ran with it as well. We can keep
this absurdity level going for some time. So at the
very end of the scene, I believe the two just
are standing outside the building as it burns down, smoking cigarettes,

(44:52):
and we're like, well, that took care of it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:59):
But here after he grabs Lady number two, he has
to convince the janitor to come help him call an ambulance.

Speaker 4 (45:09):
That guy's dumbest, the guy.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
The guy really never had a chance.

Speaker 4 (45:12):
So that's victim three, nor did the vacuum he brought
with him.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
Victim four was the vacuum and then the fire alarm
goes off, and because because of l A and no
minorities were involved, they're not going to come a police
aren't going to come from on.

Speaker 2 (45:34):
It's a fun you know. If you're thinking about this
film in the context of no War, it's it's it's
a fun like kind of inversion of like the traditional
noir tough guy.

Speaker 4 (45:43):
Yeah, yeah, because.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
Yeah, this is dumbest fun.

Speaker 4 (45:47):
He's terrible.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
Yeah, it's like the worst man ever.

Speaker 4 (45:52):
It's nothing some kind of suave, intelligent person who's capable
of us.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
The next scene, or the next series of scenes, focuses
on a film director named Adam Kesher and his uh
cascading Hollywood nightmare. I guess this is the best way
of describing it.

Speaker 4 (46:16):
One might One might also, I might almost say, like
his cohen Esque descent through Hollywood.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
Kesher is working on a new film but faces interference
from mysterious executives known as the Castilian I can't pronounce
it Casti Gialani brothers, brothers.

Speaker 5 (46:38):
Well, okay, if it's geolized Castiliani, there's no glove.

Speaker 1 (46:42):
I was gonna say this is probably the second best
scene in cinema.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
Oh yeah, he is pressured Kesher is pressured to cast
do you.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
Know who the the main Castilian brothers and a little
best I thought, yeahh his longtime composer.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
Yeah, it's pretty effective.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:08):
Kesher is pressured to cast an unknown actress named Camilla
Rhodes against his wishes. When he refuses, his career begins
to quickly unravel his bank count or frozen. His wife
cheats on him with Billy ray Cyrus. He is out
of his own house. I love the Billy ray SIUs camera.

Speaker 5 (47:28):
Is that really Billy ray Cyrus?

Speaker 1 (47:31):
Absolutely?

Speaker 4 (47:31):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
I think that was just like as like such as
he's such a nice like guy cheating with his wife.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
He's just like just forget about what you're seeing, and
like the whites could bloody too. It's very like it
made me feel really weird.

Speaker 5 (47:49):
Well like it's it's fun just s that's like, you know,
I mean, this guy is clearly a successful director. He's
you know, in some fancy you know, convertible car, and
he's in some fancy house and and I don't know
much about his wife, but I don't know, you get
the impression that he paid for it, do you know
what I mean? In this fancy house and like, you know,
and it's so, it's so she's caught with her lover

(48:11):
and you know she's cheating on Yeah yeah, And instead
of feeling like bad or embarrassed or anything, she like
yells at him because if he had the audacity to
come home to the house he paid for in the
middle of the day. And then his reaction, though I
thought this was hilarious. He like doesn't do anything. He's silent,
and he goes takes a beat, and then he goes

(48:33):
and grabs some kind of box and the dresser and
walks slowly away. She's like, wait, that's my jewels. And
then you're like, okay, that's smart. Just take it with you,
you know, that's that seems fair. And then but he
goes into the garage and he gets this like awful
can of paint. This is like neon orange, and you're like,

(48:57):
I don't I don't know where we're going with this,
you know, And then he that's such a weird thing
to do. Then he opens his box of jewels and
he'd be proceeds to dump this awful paint all over
her jewelry. I mean, she's like jumping on his back
and all this stuff and losing his mind. And then
she gets Billy ray Cyrus, you know, a boyfriend, Billy

(49:19):
ray Cyrus, to like literally pick him up and throw
him out of his own house. And I will say
I just kept thinking this whole time, was like, what's
the paint really necessary?

Speaker 1 (49:29):
Because now he made it.

Speaker 5 (49:32):
Like you know, but like you could have just taken
the jewels, you know what I mean? But like now
you are covered in paint. Now your your fancy car
is gonna be covered in paint. It's just an unnecessary mess.
And often what I do think about when I watched
TV and movies and they had a scene that's like
really messy, and you know they have to do to
take more than once to myself, how do they do
this or do they say, listen, you guys, don't fuck up.

(49:55):
This is a one situation, okay, like don't don't don't
you know?

Speaker 1 (50:00):
And then I don't know, I think you do have
that yeah the next few scenes, because like.

Speaker 5 (50:06):
If I was a director or the film writer, I
would be like, yeah, we're gonna cut that pargo. I'm
not going to deal with this ship and we're not
gonna do a million shower. We're not gonna do a
million shirts, do what I mean, Like, we're just not
going to use the paint.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
In the face.

Speaker 4 (50:23):
Why do you think Billy ray Cyrus was the choice
for this anyways?

Speaker 2 (50:26):
I have no idea. It's such a weird choice.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
I have a feeling that no one else was even considered.

Speaker 4 (50:31):
Yeah, that's what I mean. It feels too specific to
be an accident, like incidental, but he's not acknowledged to
be as such. He's given a different name, So I
even was. I questioned when I saw it. Wait, I'm like,
that is Billy ray Cyrus, right, And I'm not. I'm
not absolutely, but I'm like, but like, from the moment

(50:54):
that Adam, I forget, what's his name, Adam, Adam, Sure, yeah,
into the driveway, suddenly we get we get treated to
I will say, about five minutes of a John Cusack film,
because it is one hundred percent what's going on from

(51:15):
the moment he enters the house, like seeing the tow
truck outside and then like walks into his house to
figure out what's going on, the whole thing dramatically shifts
gears and the whole thing feels like a completely different movie.
As he walks in and has this kind of completely
almost nonchalant reaction to the thing, like, oh, I see

(51:36):
what's going on, and then yeap, just out back out
through the house, straight into the garage. I literally thought
he was going to get paint thinner to make a
bomb of some sort. Yeah, but it turns out more
absurd and funnier and more like John Cusack straight into as.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
I say, I like, I like when he throws when
he throws him out of his own house, he just
like gets up and just immediately walks away.

Speaker 2 (51:59):
Yeah, yeah, you know, yeah.

Speaker 4 (52:03):
I feel like at this point it feels like much
more of a Coen It's much more of like a
Cohen Brothers movie. Like now we're just in like goofy absurdity.
We're not even it's not even it's nothing about this
is surreal or weird or artsy. It's just like, you know,
what if that happened, what would you do?

Speaker 2 (52:19):
I feel like, yeah, if we have to go back
to the boardroom, okay, yeah, we'll talk about that. I
thought you'd want to uh oh yeah yeah. Me with
Billy Ray Cyrus, I would probably have the same reaction.

Speaker 4 (52:33):
Just Jewelry Box. I'm not taking this for the money.
I'm taking it for the spite.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
Yeah, why are you? I don't want hard I don't
get it.

Speaker 4 (52:44):
I don't want either of us to have this.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
Ye.

Speaker 4 (52:50):
The boardroom, Yeah, the boardroom scene. I thought I thought
that actually was several scenes ago. But yeah, you're right,
it was a little a little bit before. Yeah, okay, and.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
We're we're treated to the one of the great coffee
scenes in cinema, where, or to express his displeasure, the
name Castiliani brother takes a sip of this very fine
express up and then proceeds to get every drop out

(53:21):
of his mouth. Like the guy is like outrage, But.

Speaker 4 (53:34):
Why, I mean, what was so wrong with it? I mean, also,
as we're led to believe as the movie progresses, I
guess these are the lawyers or pretending to be lawyers
of some mafioso interest in this film. Probably, Yeah, but
it feels this This is one of the scenes I
will say, out of all of them that, although that

(53:57):
part is quite amusing, this like one of the most
awkwardly drawn out, almost to the point of like, why
is this scene happening so long?

Speaker 1 (54:07):
It's so.

Speaker 4 (54:09):
It was so little going on this see, and that's
the prop seat. There's the problem. I'm like, now, this
just feels like we're either padding for time or we're
just doing it to make people feel awkward watching it.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
To make people feel awkward.

Speaker 4 (54:22):
Yeah, yeah, I don't think it was.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
I don't think it was for patting.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
It's interesting, well, because you know, the idea, the idea
of a criminal element is pretty common in the war,
so and it's setting up the film to be early.
It seems to be eluding that there is something going
on in Hollywood with this film, and there is this
outside ominous mafioso dark force directing this actress into a

(54:51):
position to like succeed, and that's kind of set up
against uh, you know this read a character, No Betty
character who is.

Speaker 4 (55:00):
Oh I means as this movie will show. Yes, there
is a reasoning for the for the conceit that this
is based in. Yeah, But within itself, the scene just
feels excessive. It feels a little bit overdone. It doesn't
feel like to a point, yes, and then there's a
point where you've crossed the threshold of like all right

(55:21):
now we're just kind of now we're just kind of
dragging it out for the sake of dragging it out
until we get until we get to the street scene,
which is actually the beginning of the of the Q
Sack film within this movie of being like talking to
veil A and being like get ready to leave, leave,
and then just like takes the golf club. He randomly

(55:42):
carries around us a director as one does director managers.
I guess a very.

Speaker 5 (55:52):
Yeah, it's very long, and you know, one of those
like oh god, here we go. But I think what
it's doing is exaggerating the idea that Holly wasn't Ara based, right,
and it's yeah, you know, you know, and there's like
these you know, ne farious pieces happening in the background
because this director, I mean, it's so drawn out because
he repeatedly just says no and no and no. He

(56:14):
will not budge.

Speaker 1 (56:15):
We are the impression that he is a very successful director. Yeah, yeah,
Like why why doesn't he have the decision making capacity
at this point? Like he's not some hack that's been
hired for like some crap movie.

Speaker 4 (56:28):
Right, he's supposed to be like at least a B
list director at or bet.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
But he does not. He doesn't have a choice, Like
this person is going to be the main actress.

Speaker 4 (56:39):
Whoever she is, he at least us the power to
believe he can run up to a limousin and be like, hey,
those fucks get out of this car. Good, and then
he just builds Walter so checked on the thing and
then it's like fuck you and drives away.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
So this is what happens when you now, when you
meet a stranger in the Alps, Donnie, this is what
happens when you meet a stranger in the Alps.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
I love when the goomba's come back and the wife
jumps on their shoulder.

Speaker 4 (57:13):
Man, that's again, I'm gonna say this. This movie periodically
becomes another movie.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
He's trying not he's trying not to but like eventually
he's trying not to be like.

Speaker 4 (57:29):
He's like, he's like a slightly less a slightly less
benevolent version of Bobby from Sopranos, Like, yeah, does not
want to do any of this ship that he's being
thrust into. But he's like god, damn it, all right,
all right, fine, fuck you.

Speaker 2 (57:47):
So Adam Kashner is eventually called up to uh to
a mysterious summit with a character named the cowboy Erica
m h. And they meet at a place called Beechwood
Canyon on a ranch at Beechwood Canyon. And this is
exactly below the Hollywood sign. So if the camera is up,

(58:10):
you would see the Hollywood sign right above them.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
So it is that really there?

Speaker 2 (58:14):
Yeah? Yeah, oh, so they're meeting below Hollywood, I guess
at a very ominous site. And Josh, would you would
you agree that Aman's attitude goes a long way, goes
some ways?

Speaker 1 (58:30):
Sure?

Speaker 4 (58:32):
But why you say it? Because just wants you to
think that I really believe it.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
To give the audience of our fifty to sixty listeners.
Apparently around the world there was a whole summer in
which me and Josh basically harangued Kellen with quotes from
the Cowboy.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
Great characters.

Speaker 4 (58:57):
Yeah, it's not one of the great characters. Having now
watched this movie, he's one of the most peripheral and
unimportant characters.

Speaker 1 (59:07):
This guy's this guy is adorable.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
Yeah, he's so awesome.

Speaker 4 (59:10):
I love He's the least cowboy to ever cowboy. The
jacket he is wearing looks like it came from the
discount wreck of Aeropostal. It's the most Hollywood version of
a cowboy that Hollywood has never dared to put on
screen because.

Speaker 1 (59:28):
Somebody's an actual outfit.

Speaker 2 (59:30):
Yeah, so that The actor is Monty Montgomery, who was
a very close friend of David Lynch.

Speaker 4 (59:36):
And his name is Montgomery. Montgomery in reality.

Speaker 2 (59:42):
Kind of a big producer, director, artist in his own right.
Like he hung out with good friends with Mick Jagger.
He's a really interesting guy.

Speaker 4 (59:52):
This guy hanging out with Mick Jagger makes zero sense.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
The cowboy was hanging out with Mick Jagger. Yeah, is
that crazy?

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
He co wrote a movie with Catherine Bigelow, who I
think is uh yeah, Noburg.

Speaker 4 (01:00:06):
She wrote the hurt Locker. Yeah, yeah, she got she
got an oscar for that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
He produced, being John Malkovic, he produced, He produced the
pilot for Beverly Hills nine O two one.

Speaker 4 (01:00:20):
Oh Erica, Oh just for Erica.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
What's kind of a weird thing that you brought up today?
But he's what he's dressed as a cowboy and the
outfit that he's where it belonged to one of the
early great American cinema cowboy heroes. Uh, what's his name?
Mix or Nick Silent Silent film. But apparently he bought

(01:00:44):
this guy's outfits and he showed up to the set
dressed in the old Hollywood garb. It kind of signifies
this kind of like he's almost like this personification or
this avatar. I don't know how to you know of
this old Hollywood system interesting. I didn't know that it's

(01:01:04):
really interesting that he's wearing yet, Yeah, he.

Speaker 4 (01:01:07):
Seems to be working for the mob, which is kind
of counter to that, but okay, maybe. Also I believe
that costume would work so much better in black and
white than it doesn't color.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
We need a Cowboy prequel to like figure out how
he got involved in these people.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
I would wear that costume cost some sweet. If I
could walk around like that, I'd be awesome.

Speaker 4 (01:01:32):
I'm just pretty sure that based on this and also
the strange which we didn't even touch on, like I
didn't even want to call them the speaker room scenes. Mister,
I'm not I'm still not commence. David Lynch one hundred
percent knows how the mafia mafias, or how the studio system, studios,

(01:01:53):
that's all these things seem kind of interchanged.

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
My impression was mister Roke was like a studio. It's
not not actually the Mafia.

Speaker 5 (01:02:04):
No, we talk about that scene with that guy that well, that's.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
This whole movie, the little guy in the in the wheelchair. Yeah, yeah,
we're talking about it now.

Speaker 4 (01:02:16):
That's that's I brought it up just for that purpose.
And I know that actor, like I get including him,
but it it out of all the weirdness in the movie,
those scenes kind of stand it out.

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
It was like, is this even necessary to he's weird
because he essentially says nothing, and then the guy to
me and we're shutting the entire studio down.

Speaker 4 (01:02:37):
No, It's it's like the it's the classic. It's the
same thing that Brad Pitt does to no that George
Clooney does the Brad Pitt in Ocean's eleven. By by
your non response, I'm going to interpret every response and
then we'll proceed that the plan going forward from there.
It's just it just came off a little bit different
when they were two cool guys instead of a weirdo

(01:02:58):
behind glass and another weirdo who maybe was connected to
the mob.

Speaker 5 (01:03:03):
It just was harder to read a little bit well,
and especially because this whole thing is about this particular,
you know, random mysterious actress, and it was all this
like he says, no, we can't get her, you know,
and okay, we have just shut this whole thing down
because we can't get her, and you're just there is
the mystery. You're like, who is this actress and why
is she so important? And is she even good? Like

(01:03:23):
is this someone who, like you know, is going to
totally paint the phone?

Speaker 4 (01:03:26):
He's covered by the mob?

Speaker 5 (01:03:29):
Yeah, I mean, but he's so adamantly against her and
he's never even seen her either, So I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
I mean, Casher just doesn't want somebody else to be
making the decision. He thinks he should be.

Speaker 4 (01:03:42):
Updated right right, It feels like it feels like a
weird homage to The Godfather, right justin I agree, like
the first one where they're gonna put the fucking screws
on him to put.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
Johnny Fontaine, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:03:56):
Johnny Fontaine into a picture. It feels like it's directly
referencing that as part of an old Hollywood thing. But
it's like, yeah, no, horse, that's true. There was no
there was no one to just throw that in on.
I also thought, is there there's like no classic mobsters
in this whole movie. I thought for sure someone would.

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
Be The cowboy tells Kushner quote, when you see the
girl in the picture that was shown to you earlier
in the day, you will say, this is the girl.
The rest of the cast can stay, that's up to you,
but the choice for the lead girl is not up
to you. He says, now you will see Now, you
will see me one more time. If you do good,
you will see me two more times if you do bad,

(01:04:37):
and good night, and he walks away and and from
For most of the film, that's pretty much the entire
like stuff for Adam, Like he shows up a couple
more times. Basically he's his role is done.

Speaker 4 (01:04:53):
It does feel like it was supposed to be bigger,
like more important towards the end, but you know, how
it plays out, it makes sense.

Speaker 5 (01:05:02):
But just like again, all of the super leedgious to
be like, you're not like we meant what we said,
like you're gonna like cast this person, you know, Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:05:13):
It's funny of the cowboy though, like that those are
that that's the scene when I first watched this, that
like really really captured my imagination to the point that we.

Speaker 4 (01:05:23):
Bothered me for.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
You know, looking back, it was worth it.

Speaker 4 (01:05:33):
Either of you many times.

Speaker 5 (01:05:37):
I mean it was Okay. I think at this point,
I'm still watching this movie being like, this is weird,
this is slow. I don't know what's going on, you
know what I mean. I just he was amusing, but
I don't know. I think I don't like a lot
of nonsense. So I'm I'm neutral talking about I don't
love nonsense. Yeah, and I just yeah, I'm just like, okay,

(01:06:01):
I don't know whatever.

Speaker 4 (01:06:03):
Sometimes it burns so slowly you have to question if
it's not freezing right up behind you.

Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
Okay. We now move into the search for Diane Selwyn.

Speaker 5 (01:06:15):
See the reason that like they learn this name is
they go out and she They go to Winki's. Winky's
is back and Betty takes Rita for coffee. Rita doesn't
know who she is. She notices the waitress's name tag
that says Diane on it, and all of a sudden,
she thinks, of this name, Diane Selwyn. I don't know
who this is. They look her up back when they
had you know, yellow Pages, and they call and they

(01:06:37):
get a voicemail and they don't recognize the voice. And
she goes, okay, well it sounds like I'm not Diane then,
but they have an address, so then they decide to
go and see who Diane is. At the very least,
Diane could probably tell her who she is.

Speaker 4 (01:06:50):
Right. Also, it's the white pages, not the yellow pages.
But same thing, sure, same thing.

Speaker 5 (01:06:55):
But this is probably the first part where I'm like, yeah, like,
let's open the door. I want to know what's going on. Yeah,
I'm in aged, sure, But.

Speaker 4 (01:07:01):
First Betty has a rehearsal she does, which is a
very interesting scene. Overall, this is.

Speaker 5 (01:07:16):
It's not it's not a rehearsal, it's an audition, which.

Speaker 4 (01:07:19):
Just which this whole audition sequences odd all the way around.
I'm not sure this is how this happens. I was
also immediately confused because I thought she was going to
audition to be an Adams movie. I just assumed that
was the connection between these two things.

Speaker 5 (01:07:35):
I mean, I wasn't sure it wasn't Adams movie.

Speaker 4 (01:07:39):
It was. It was a difficult it was not, but
that was what I walked into him, like, oh, this
is going to turn out to be an audition for
whatever movie he's working on, and that's the connective thread
between these. It's only one step removed, so it's not
that far off. I just assumed that would be the connection,
and it was.

Speaker 5 (01:07:57):
But and you know, before we jump into that, I'm
gonna talk about this makes more sense to me now too.
Where she you know, she and Rita are becoming friends.
So Rita is helping her with her lines to prepare
for the audition, and the scenario that portraying is like
some you know, young woman who's like having an affair

(01:08:17):
with her dad's best friend or something, and he's trying
to trying to get him to believe and like when
and Rita is like playing the other part, and Betty
is being this like she's not a bad actress, you know,
she's getting really passionate about it. She's yelling, and Rita
is just like, you know, reading as if somebody who's
like not an actress helping out their friend, right, And

(01:08:40):
she's like, Wow, you're really really good, you know. And
I think that kind of points to something later on too.
So then she goes to this audition, which is kind
of weird. I've never been to a Hollywood audition, but
this was like in an office with like eight people around.

Speaker 4 (01:08:59):
I'm sure it's not a normal scenario, but it serves
them the dramatic purpose.

Speaker 2 (01:09:03):
And if you're thinking, so we could talk about you know,
we can't we talk about it yet, But if you're
thinking about it from a perspective of a person who's
imagining what an audition must be, like, it does kind
of make sense, right, It's kind of imagine this situation
has to be when in reality. After I watched this
movie the other day, I looked up footages of people's

(01:09:25):
auditions and like, I looked up who Hugh Lourie's audition
for for House House, and it was basically looking for
Grimed and like it's all grainy and he's just talking
to a camera because I'm weird casting agent. It's looking
at hundreds of tapes by himself in a room.

Speaker 4 (01:09:45):
For roles like that. I'm sure that's accurate. And I'm
sure in this case, although this is heightened there, it's
a little more polished when it's well, what what Betty
is going to would definitely not be the first first
thing that's not because presumably it seems she did not
even have to send an audition tape anyways, which also

(01:10:07):
points towards the unreality of what's going on. Her first
thing is showing up in person at an office with
high level people to audition directly for the part with
someone who's already been cast. That obviously doesn't happen that often.

Speaker 5 (01:10:23):
Well, this though, is not random, it's nepotism. Her aunt
is a successful actress who's you is because her aunt
connected her with the director. That's how she got the
you know, the audition material beforehand. Is her aunt pulled
strings for her. So it's not like she I mean,
as much as she is that like Angeenu, you know,
bushy eyed, like I'm coming to Hollywood to be.

Speaker 4 (01:10:44):
A star, bushy tailed, bright eyed.

Speaker 7 (01:10:48):
That's not a thing's just huge. I'm just gonna go
Stan Dadaya he plays the lawyer for the Bob.

Speaker 5 (01:10:58):
I like bushy eyedes, but like she's she's not a
total like outsider. That's the thing, you know what I mean,
She's not lucky. I mean she's lucky in the sense
that she's connected to somebody, so that I mean that
does explain in this sequence how she has access to
the directors and the filmmakers directly, and how she's given
like the privilege to not only audition, but audition with

(01:11:20):
the guy who's already cast and somewhat well, she blows
them away.

Speaker 4 (01:11:27):
I mean, yeah, this is but this is also I
think the exactly the breaking point of the story, both
psychologically for the character involved and also for us. This
kind of starts to shed light backwards on the rest
of like how much of this was real versus now
now we're actually seeing one how this character can act

(01:11:49):
in reality, to like, this is actually Naomi Watts acting
for real, like if she was acting in a modern movie,
not a throwback to old school Hollywood. As turns out,
most of this movie has been up to this point.
This is the first like real acting scene by modern standards,
and it's good. I want to see whatever this movie

(01:12:11):
is they sell this one scene. I'm kind curious what
the fuck the movie is that she is auditioning for
with this guy, because this looks pretty fucking interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:12:20):
Really, I'm going in the movie by myself and I'm
gonna sit in the corner with my plotform box.

Speaker 4 (01:12:26):
I Okay, Well, I think.

Speaker 5 (01:12:28):
This is the first part in the movie where I'm like, damn, Nama,
watch is a really good actress, because this is where
we start to see that range. Because, as we talked
about in the beginning, when she's got her bushy eyes,
you know, and she's really cheasy when in the beginning
where she's like really cheesy where even guy like the
same scene that justin thought was like, god, this is
kind of borderline bad acting. And then you see her like,

(01:12:51):
you know, being really like friendly and chummy. I'm like okay,
and she's like even when she does this scene with
Rita where she's clearly the way better actors because read
just a friend, you know, it's very like it's like
standard acting, right, it's just like okay, you know, you're
your friend, and then the way that but then we
see how she portrays it in the audition and it's

(01:13:13):
so different. It's so like more I don't know if
it's nuanced is the word. The tone is like sexy.
She's not yelling, she's there's so much communication happening with
her body that's you know, and her language you know
that are partnering that you don't that's it basically shows
off her as an amazing actress, like as a character
and as the actress herself, right, and you think, wow,

(01:13:36):
Betty's Betty's gonna go far. You know, she's blown everyone away.

Speaker 4 (01:13:41):
And again I'll say this is why she got the
role in King Kong because she has to do the
same act like old school acting, and then actually act
when the important parts come up within the movie.

Speaker 1 (01:13:53):
That is this, Is this the audition for King Kong?

Speaker 4 (01:13:57):
I think basically yes. I think Peter Jackson watch. I
mean she's also Australians who already knew who she was anyways,
and he's like, cool, can you act like an old
school actress as people would want you to be. Can
you then also actually emote in a realistic way outside
of the interior movie of the movie. That's literally the

(01:14:18):
entire role. As long as you can now act against
a big c gi Andy circus good when you did it,
that's the whole role.

Speaker 5 (01:14:27):
It's those Bushyes, she got them, she gets you know.
They're very excited about her and like these women whisk
her way to go to this other set to meet people.
I guess they wanted to meet. This is where I
thought she was auditioning for that role from Promise to
Camilla Rhoades. But and isn't that isn't this the part
where we find out who Camilla Roads is?

Speaker 4 (01:14:47):
Like that we see, yeah, well we find out who
we think?

Speaker 5 (01:14:51):
Yeah, yeah, so I can. I mean, I can describe
that real quick. But so we go in, like Kessner
is directing like this nineteen fifties kind of movie, and they're,
you know, the guy after you know, after Betty leaves,
the guys in the room are like, oh my god,
she's amazing. The women are so excited to have her
meet Kesner.

Speaker 9 (01:15:11):
Whoever.

Speaker 5 (01:15:11):
Meanwhile, Kesner is auditioning women and all of a sudden,
this blonde women that I don't think we've met before
shows up and it's Camilla Rhodes, and just as he
was required to do. After you know, she auditions, she's
like singing like a fifties, sixties, you know song, you know.
He goes, that's the girl, that's who this is, and

(01:15:32):
she's like fine, right, I remember just watching her, and
I'm like, Okay, she's not bad, she's not great. She's
just Camila Rhodes, I guess. So that's we don't know
who this person is, but we've never seen her before,
but that's who she is. But then when she goes
to meet Kesner, their eyes like lock and she all
of a sudden remembers that she has to go and
help Rita, and we don't know why, you'd think you're

(01:15:54):
trying to become a big star. You know, you would
take all the opportunities to meet these people. But yet
something about Kes there is not good for her, and
she just like, I gotta go, and she bolts out
of there. And then we go and we find out
who Diane Sellen is.

Speaker 2 (01:16:07):
Right, so we begin the search for Diane Selwyn. Betty
and Rita track down the address of Diane Selwyn to
a part of Hollywood. To these are the apartment. The
houses there are very famous in Hollywood. They're called the
snow White Cottages.

Speaker 10 (01:16:23):
Oh I know this architect Yeah, yeah, I couldn't put
that together, yes, yes, I didn't like yeah, yeah, what
is this hobbits architecture? Then all these people in and
I know what these are now, Yes, that architect, I
saw something about him.

Speaker 2 (01:16:39):
These were built in nineteen thirty one by Ben Sherwood,
and they're called the snow White Cottages because they're seen
likely the inspiration for Disney's Snow White and the Seven
Dwarf yepes.

Speaker 1 (01:16:52):
Cool.

Speaker 2 (01:16:52):
It's interesting to have it here because we were going
to find out that there is someone sleeping or dreaming
in one of these buildings later on, there is that
connection to snow White that's being and these uh, these
colleges were just a few blocks from the original site
of Walt Disney Studios in nineteen forties. Yeah, yeah, okay,
a little interesting back.

Speaker 1 (01:17:13):
So I didn't know that either.

Speaker 4 (01:17:16):
It all locks up with something I saw a few
months ago, and I did not put that together.

Speaker 2 (01:17:20):
They're really cute, They're really they're really cool places to live.

Speaker 5 (01:17:23):
They're like I mean, I was like all of the
you know, usually I think of like you know, La
or like California architecture.

Speaker 4 (01:17:30):
It's a more modern or mission style or yeah, it's.

Speaker 5 (01:17:35):
It's or like that kind of Spanish kind of like
I don't know what I want, but it's not it's
not really my style. But then I'm looking at very
I I mean it's totally no. I mean I like
more Victorian kind of stuff, you know, like I like,
you know, very White. That's like, you know, okay, But
there's also like different climates, right, there's a reason that

(01:17:58):
oh yeah, you don't want that. I think, like it's
it's very different, right, the environments are different. But like
I remember being like, god, the architecture in La everywhere like,
all these homes are gorgeous, Like they're so charming. I
don't think of like California homes is like charming, I
guess you know what I mean. No, I think that's
like modern. So anyway, that's just a side note. I

(01:18:19):
was like that I really liked all these places. They're
so cute.

Speaker 2 (01:18:22):
They visit her apartment complex and knock, but no one answers,
but then a lady informs them that Diane hasn't been
seen in days. They eventually break into the apartment and
discover a decomposing corpse, sending them into a panic that night.
Read it becomes increasingly this corpse is so disturbing.

Speaker 5 (01:18:42):
Yeah, and you see a lot, a lot, like you
think you're done looking at it, and then David Lynch is.

Speaker 2 (01:18:47):
Like not not going back the camera over and to
get a little closer up.

Speaker 5 (01:18:54):
But one thing quick to note though, is like when
this is what I still don't understand. But when they
go and they knock on the address, the woman like, yeah,
no one has seen Diane in a few days. However
she's actually at like two one, one nine instead of two,
and she's like, we switched apartments and if that's something
that people do and they're like, oh, okay, cool, and
then they go over and like you know, when no

(01:19:16):
one answers and this, you know, when that ends in
a nine they break in and find the dead body.

Speaker 4 (01:19:23):
Doesn't seem like an I.

Speaker 1 (01:19:24):
Don't think they're definitely smelling something.

Speaker 2 (01:19:29):
That's some serious d coom.

Speaker 4 (01:19:31):
Yeah, when in reality, you either leave that ship alone
or you go make another anonymous call from a payphone.
If that's wow.

Speaker 5 (01:19:40):
I'm looking at like these houses too, like as we speak,
and they are adorable.

Speaker 4 (01:19:44):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:19:47):
That night really becomes increasingly paranoid and cuts her hair
short and puts on a blonde wig, but not before
we get to see some sweet, sweet lesbian love.

Speaker 5 (01:19:57):
Make Okay, I want to talk about this.

Speaker 2 (01:20:03):
Wait, wait what, let's talk about it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:05):
But that scene wasn't in my version.

Speaker 4 (01:20:13):
Version of David Lynch movie much even more confusing than normal.

Speaker 5 (01:20:20):
So because I had a lot of thoughts about this,
we know, yeah, I know, we did too, Yeah, but
it was it weird?

Speaker 1 (01:20:28):
Erica? Was it weird for you, like in order to
like mentally get into it because there was no Dick.

Speaker 5 (01:20:36):
I don't even know how to answer, but I okay,
we're wild. This is where it's weird. Okay, So like
I'm watching this right and they you know, they've only
known each other for a few days, and they're like
that's enough. Yeah, they're like best. Here's the but here's
the thing that we we get. We think we know Betty,

(01:20:57):
we're getting to know Betty, but like Rida is a
shell of a person, do you know what I mean?
She just pretty and like so yeah, but like all
of a sudden, you know, you know, they're talking and
you know, Rita's freaking out because she still doesn't know
what she is, but she gets to sense someone's after her,
that's what you think, because she's got to go cut
her hair or do something. And Betty's like, let me
help you here. I'll get you a blonde wig. Now

(01:21:19):
you look like me. And then they're getting ready for
bed and she's like, you can come and share my bed. No,
you don't need to be on the couch. So she's
like okay, and of course she sleeps like totally naked
right now to share a bed with someone and be
like totally And then you're like I remember and at
this point I was like rolling my eyes. At this point,

(01:21:39):
I was like, are you kidding me? This is a
such a male gaze kind of bullshit. This scene doesn't
need to be in here. I like, I was really annoyed,
but I get it now. But it's also strange is
that they are, you know, they're making out and they're
they're getting into it. And what I thought was odd
also is that Betty kept telling her how in love

(01:22:00):
with her that she was. And I thought that was weird.
I thought that was so weird. She said over and
over again. It wasn't just like a one off. It
was like she kept telling her how in love she
was with her. And I'm like, dude, you've known this
girl just three days and like she has said like
ten things, she's got no personality. Like I don't, I
don't get this. This is weird and that to me,

(01:22:21):
I'm just like, this is just some unbelievable like male
like oriented you are.

Speaker 1 (01:22:27):
You are truly the Alex of the podcast. Now you're not.
You don't want the superficiality. You want to know what
the person is underneath.

Speaker 5 (01:22:39):
No, But I mean, like, I just it just seemed
weird for this character who, frankly, I don't even think
she's they ask each other, have you done this before?
And I think she said no, so you don't even
know if you're gay, and like you're having your.

Speaker 1 (01:22:50):
First she doesn't know, And the other one said she
doesn't see with our modern education system, like people are
just very fluid and like they don't know what their
orientation is.

Speaker 4 (01:22:59):
Well, actually it's just it's just this is a very
classic This is a very classic porn scene opening with
everything right down to the dialogue.

Speaker 1 (01:23:09):
This is I mean, it really needed to fix the cable,
but you know we didn't have that.

Speaker 5 (01:23:16):
Yeah, exactly. I mean, look the whole like crawling to
my bed stuff happens, like I to me, it was
like an eye rolling moment. But I did think it
was weird that totally sober and like not even like
didn't seem like necessary. She's telling her, She's like, yeah, right,
I mean weird experience.

Speaker 4 (01:23:34):
Yeah, that happens sometimes.

Speaker 5 (01:23:36):
Unfortunate anyway, So this is where I think, And now
we're getting to a point. We're now we're gonna have
some fun. But like that was my initial we're having fun.

Speaker 2 (01:23:51):
I had like a good five minutes of fun after
that scene. I'm not gonna Lietes.

Speaker 4 (01:24:00):
I love that. Her line though, is that you don't
need to wear that inside and sure immediate move is
to take off her towel.

Speaker 5 (01:24:06):
I'm like, wow, that is just not her wig.

Speaker 2 (01:24:09):
Yeah, very gorgeous, ladies. I'm not gonna lie. It was
a very erotic scene and film noirs are known for
this heightened, over the top sexual tension, so it feels
like you, I don't have to have something like this.

Speaker 4 (01:24:20):
Well to some degree, but also you have to take it.
I mean if you reverse not reverse it in verse
the whole thing and go Is this more or less
than we would expect if this was a completely heterosexual
relationship in a movie, in a movie, not in reality,
but in a movie. Is this any more or less
than we really have as a standard for most movies?

(01:24:44):
And then we can take it up to a slightly
more modern although still not now at this point pretty
old be like, is this any more or less than
Broke Back Mountain? Established? For two guys?

Speaker 5 (01:24:54):
Sure, because they're not really he.

Speaker 1 (01:25:00):
Got together pretty quick and yeah, it was like.

Speaker 5 (01:25:04):
It's been a while since I've seen it, but it
was like the.

Speaker 4 (01:25:06):
First time they met.

Speaker 1 (01:25:07):
It was the first time they for a while, they
knew each other for like three days or like they
were working together.

Speaker 4 (01:25:16):
Right, just like an immediate mutual fling attraction kind of thing.
But we're a little bit put off by it by
the fact that it's homosexual. So I just accepted it instant.

Speaker 1 (01:25:28):
But stuff in that movie, Yeah, they went right into it.

Speaker 5 (01:25:31):
Yeah, to me, this came off as like not necessary
and something that like David Lynch put in there because
David Lynch wanted to see this, do what I mean?

Speaker 4 (01:25:39):
That was because it hasn't done that in his other stuff.

Speaker 5 (01:25:46):
David Lynch or this is just something that like his
male audience is going to want to watch.

Speaker 4 (01:25:49):
That was my Now, I don't think David Lynch has
ever once thought of that about.

Speaker 1 (01:25:55):
It was my audience watch, do you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 5 (01:26:01):
Right when I first watched it, fast was that this
was just some like you know, like soft porn that
I just we're just putting this because is what we want.
It's not going to move the story.

Speaker 1 (01:26:13):
You know what I mean? That was my fun Yeah, yeah,
on first past, Yes, that was my stuff. That's fair enough.
When I first watched this movie, I was watching it
in the basement of my parents' house and I believe
while my mom was coming downstairs around this scene going on,

(01:26:34):
and so I had stopped the tape and like on TV,
it was like c SPAN and like.

Speaker 4 (01:26:40):
My favorite and I was like, that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:26:48):
I love that story.

Speaker 4 (01:26:50):
That's amazing, Senator Wilkins, he's about to own this debate.

Speaker 9 (01:26:54):
Right after a night of fears scissoring, you don't know
that a few hours a few hours of scissoring, wakes
up from post coital bliss and they both head off
to a place called Club Salencio.

Speaker 4 (01:27:17):
But only because of post post coitus Latin, which isn't
can't just.

Speaker 5 (01:27:23):
Like rush over? Like why they at two in the morning, Yeah, yeah,
sleeping like just keep saying Silentia, Celencia, Celencio and what
you think is a dream. She wakes up Betty, and
Betty is like what is going on? And she's like,
will you go with me? So all of a sudden,

(01:27:44):
Betty or Rita's remembering something and in the middle of
the night they have to go to this what we
learned as a weird ass.

Speaker 4 (01:27:52):
Club late night l a theater is bound to be
the best theater you've ever seen.

Speaker 2 (01:27:59):
They had to a surreal dream like nightclub, where a
presenter explains that everything they see is an illusion. A
singer performs a Spanish rendition of royal crying, only to
collapse while the song continues playing, reinforcing the theme of deception.
There's a lady dressed in blue above the scene or

(01:28:23):
what's that? What's that space called in a theater? I
can't remember?

Speaker 1 (01:28:25):
The name.

Speaker 2 (01:28:27):
Is an opa. During the scene, we we see Betty
begin to tremble uncontrollably and suddenly find a blue box
in her in her bag when they return home.

Speaker 4 (01:28:42):
That was almost a full I know, I know.

Speaker 5 (01:28:45):
Wait okay, and like weird things happen on stage, like
you find the actors perform and they're so moved they're crying,
and then all of a sudden the actors will like
pass out or stop and the music or whatever keeps going.
So this is where things get This is where things
really get wonky. And this is the clue where you're like,

(01:29:05):
things aren't what they seem. And at the same time
she happens to discover this blue box, which resembles something
like the blue key that we found earlier, and all
of a sudden things are going.

Speaker 4 (01:29:19):
To shake up. But also that but also is this
a turn on a classic phrase? Is Betty just experiencing
blue box?

Speaker 8 (01:29:32):
Very funny?

Speaker 2 (01:29:34):
I get it.

Speaker 4 (01:29:35):
I like it. That's why I'm here. Yeah, yeah, we're in.

Speaker 2 (01:29:40):
The podcast here and we'll see you all later. We're
gonna have that high hat. They return home together and
Betty seemingly disappears, while readers was super creepy the first time.

Speaker 5 (01:29:54):
This was this far was creepy, Like I think we
really need to talk about like this particular because I
rewatched that today too, and this like they literally the
two of them enter into the house. They now have
the box where they have they know they have the key,
so you see the two women go in the bedroom.

(01:30:15):
You see Rita reach into the closet to pull out
her purse that has the blue key, and all of
a sudden, Betty is nowhere to be found. And I
remember doing a double take, being like didn't she just
walk in like that room? And like Betty has no
is nowhere to be found. She's just disappeared, and she
how do you just disappear in your own bedroom? But

(01:30:37):
but Rita, it was just like whoa, okay, And she
just decided to open the box anyway, which I also
thought was strange. You think you'd want to like your
friend that just disappeared into thin air. You feel like
you'd want to find her. But she takes this weird
looking key.

Speaker 1 (01:30:49):
Can I just can I just go?

Speaker 4 (01:30:50):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:30:51):
Okay, So she takes this weird looking key and she
opens this blue box and it is empty. It is
completely empty. But now the camera does a deep dive
and we jump into the box and now and now
we're into the real movie.

Speaker 2 (01:31:08):
Yeah. At this point, the reality of the film begins
to shift. We learn that the new narrative reveals that now,
for full disclosure, I'm narrating it the best I can,
because I think a lot of things are left up
in the air at this part of the film in
ways that I don't know if I was sure clearly

(01:31:29):
captured just by narrating it. So if there's other ways
that you want to talk about it, just bring it
up and we'll just go from there. But this is
my best attempt at getting out of narrow narrative structure.
So at this stage in the film, after Betty and
Rita disappear into the blue box, the film shifts to
a new narrative, and we learned that Betty is actually

(01:31:52):
Diane Selwyn, a struggling actress living in the same apartment
where they previously found the corpse. It appears that Diane
was being in love with Camillia Rhodes, who was a
successful actress who had been at one point her lover,
but ultimately left her for the director Adam Kesher. Diane
is devastated by the rejection, watching helplessly as Camilla and

(01:32:16):
Adam announce their engagement in a party field with industry elites.
The people and events from her dream world now reappear
in this reality, but in different roles in different contexts.
It becomes clear in some respects that perhaps the first
part of the film might have been some idealized dream
or wishful fulfillment that Diane created to allow her to

(01:32:39):
escape her miserable experience. What do you think so far?

Speaker 4 (01:32:44):
I think that's accurate so far. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:32:47):
I was very confused at this point because all of
a sudden, I mean, I think up until this point,
I've been trying to keep an open mind, but I
thought it was slow. I thought it was weird. I
didn't know what was happening, and I didn't have seen
right before it, I you know, didn't love I didn't
think it was necessary, and now I'm paying attention and
it's it's so interesting because everything is different. Like the

(01:33:09):
Betty character, the Naomi Walks actress looks different. She looks
like almost like junkie, like do you know what I mean,
like you know, her hair like stream, she's kind of gone.
She looks like trashy frankly and you know she did,
and like it's and what's weird is like cowboy shows
up again. Where what does he say? You just said

(01:33:31):
it trash?

Speaker 1 (01:33:32):
Oh yeah, uh time to wait? Uh hey, pretty girl,
time to wake up. And it's very creepy because there's
this very loud knocking in the background and it just like, uh,
that knocking continues through when she wakes up and there's
actually somebody knocking and.

Speaker 5 (01:33:49):
What you see is what you thought was the dead
body of Diane Selwyn and what you find is that
it's Diane Selwyn, but she is alive and she's actually
like you know, and she's who thought Betty was so
and all of a sudden, this life is very different.
That neighbor that we met before is they don't I
still don't understand this like relationship, but the neighbor's annoyed.

(01:34:10):
She's like, I've been knocking forever, you have my stuff,
you know whatever. And you notice that there is a
blue key on the table, and this time it's like
a normal key, like a normal key used for a
modern war, and that jars her and you don't know
why it's a blue key, but like that kind of
sets her off. And then all of a sudden, it's

(01:34:30):
like a messed up Wizard of Oz. All these things
that you just saw for two hours, you know, are
coming back in ways that you're like, wait, that's not
what happened. So she's making coffee and then she wait
is this and then oh yeah, she's making coffee. And
then all of a sudden she goes back to her

(01:34:50):
couch and you see a naked Rita and the thing is,
this is not Rita. This is Camilla Rhodes. And you're like, wait,
I thought Camilla Roads is that random block. No, now
we're learning the true identity is that she is Diane
and this one is Camilla and they're getting into it,
and all of a sudden, Camilla is like, we can't
do this anymore, and they have this awkward breakup scene

(01:35:13):
where where Diane is very upset and essentially like throws
her out of the house and she is distraught, she
is broken hearted, and she's really like, I'm sure Josh
would like to talk about this scene or justin I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:35:34):
Either, Oh, are we talking about the violent masturbations.

Speaker 5 (01:35:37):
Yeah, that seemed to be like a favorite of yours.

Speaker 4 (01:35:41):
It's it's it's it's effective, it's it's the aggressive rubbing out.

Speaker 1 (01:35:46):
We will call it.

Speaker 2 (01:35:50):
Harrowing. I've never seen masturbation presented in such a miserable,
horrifying and just ultimately like self loathing manner before.

Speaker 4 (01:36:00):
Yeah, and you've watched a lot of bad things.

Speaker 1 (01:36:04):
Yeah, you.

Speaker 2 (01:36:07):
Really feel like even that doesn't can't resolve anything for
and it's it's very sad, like the last part of
this movie really like makes me feel heartbroken for this
Oh yeah, yea, because clearly she did have these aspirations
and she has to kind of negotiate the fact that

(01:36:28):
it's never going to be that for her.

Speaker 1 (01:36:31):
Whereas close to her it was going to be that
for her area.

Speaker 5 (01:36:35):
But I also I wanted to say we're not quite
at the end yet, that before we get too much
into the Okay, okay, yeah, yeah, I was gonna say,
you know, we after that really you know, intense breakup,
they still have to work together. And you see what
the reality is is that they are both actresses in Hollywood,
but Camilla is a big star. She is the star

(01:36:57):
of that nineteen fifties movie. And one of the things
that this said when they're breaking up and she goes,
you know, Kmilla says, we can't do this anymore. And
she goes, why it's him, isn't it. And you don't
know who he is, but apparently Camilla is breaking up
with her for a guy. Then the next scene you
find out who the guy is lo and behold it's Kesner,

(01:37:17):
who is the director of the movie they are both in.
But in this case, Camilla is the star. She is
a movie star, and and Diane is got a much
smaller part. And what's really strange too, is like not
only like you know, at one point, you know, you
can the director trying to show off to the other

(01:37:39):
actor how to like make a move on his real
life girlfriend. Is like everybody out the light. I mean
they're like but then but then, uh, Camilla, you know Rita,
Camilla is like, oh, but Diane can stay, which is
weird to me. I don't I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:37:55):
I mean it feels a little bit like rubbing salt
in the woods.

Speaker 5 (01:37:58):
It does. And she's like, you know, letting Diane with
tears in her eyes watch as her you know, boyfriend
is like, you know, she's making out with a boyfriend
in front of everyone.

Speaker 4 (01:38:08):
And then.

Speaker 5 (01:38:11):
What's the And then we get into where, like I
think all the players that we've met have come to
play like the real like Wizard of Oz moment where
you don't know what's going on. And all of a sudden,
there's a phone ringing, and she picks it up and
it's Camilla saying, you know. Now she's in her own house,
her fairy tale house, and Camilla's going, are you coming?

(01:38:32):
I've got a car outside ready to pick you up.
So now the rules are reversed, and Diane is dressed
up and she's going up to Mulholland Drive, and just
as in the opening scene, they stop halfway up the
hills and the driver says, you know, and she goes, wait,
this is not where we stop, and you think that
she's going to get in a car accidenter she's gonna
get whacked. Something bad's gonna happen, because that's what it

(01:38:54):
was set up to do. Instead, he goes, oh, no,
this is a surprise, and turns out there's like a
walking path short cut to get to this like Hollywood
Hill's mansion, And so she gets out of the car
and he wanted to call her Rita, but Camilla is there.
They're both dressed up really nicely, and she takes her
by the hand and she you know, guides her up

(01:39:15):
the path to what ends up being like Kessler's mansion.
But like it's kind of like a sweet scene to
that point. It's like supposed to be presented almost like
in a romantic way, and all of a sudden, like Diane,
who was just distraught, you know, like gut wrenched about
the breakup, they're holding hands and they're happy, and I

(01:39:36):
was confused. I thought the timeline might have been messed
up again because I thought they just broke up. But
they're just for a.

Speaker 4 (01:39:43):
Moment, for a moment. By doing that, she gets to
reclaim the either past or imagined past for a brief
moment before everything crashes back down on her.

Speaker 1 (01:39:53):
I think it's right.

Speaker 5 (01:39:55):
And when she goes to the party again. It's like Camilla,
it's like rubbing salts in it. Kessner's right there, and
and then you meet Coco, who has them being Kessner's
mother in real life, and and all of a sudden,
like you know, they're being super hands on and getting
all the names mixed up, but Kamille and Kessner are
like all over each other. They go, they sit down

(01:40:16):
to eat, and all you all of a sudden, all
the players from like the other parts of the story
are there, you know, like the cowboys, just randomly in
the background some of it, you know, and like and
this this I want to I wonder what you think
about this point, because when I was reading about it afterwards,
there's all this information that was presented in the comments

(01:40:37):
of the Reddit. Things I was reading that were very
much implied by some of this but not explicit. But
like they're sitting at the table and Coco is trying
to get to know Diane better and she's like, so,
how do you two know each other? And so you
find out that they met on the set of another
film and they were both going for the same part.
And it's really interesting because she says, I really wanted

(01:40:58):
that part, but you know that you know, went to Camilla.
The director didn't think much to me, but we became
really good friends out of it. Meanwhile, Camilla and Kessner
are like all over each other, and Coco has like
a look, I don't think she loves her son's choice
of girlfriend, and she's just sort of like getting a

(01:41:18):
vibe she could tell she knows exactly what's going on
on many levels. And then this is what's weird to
me too. So the two of them are like making out.
Then the person that we were introduced to as Camilla
comes over, I don't know that blonde girl from before,
and she says hi, and then they like make out also,
And that was weird to me because that so it
felt like a fantasy moment, and maybe it was, but

(01:41:40):
this is the reality section. So I feel like if
I was at a dinner party with my friend next
to his mother, I would not just be making out
with a random lady next to me, like I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:41:52):
At that point, it seems to me like it's her
projecting into what was it real scenario with her own parents.
Annoy is about what else might be. She was totally
spiraling at this point, projection like she's some of this
is reality, but some of it is her like reading

(01:42:12):
into things like literally that person leaned over to whisper
to her, and she's like, that's her mistress. She's gonna
just sucking tongue fucker right now. I don't think this
is her descending completely into that, like she's lost at
this point.

Speaker 2 (01:42:27):
I don't even know if we can even think about
this as a reality section either.

Speaker 4 (01:42:31):
I mean, well, it could be a reality Yeah, it
feels it feels way more informed by her reality because.

Speaker 1 (01:42:40):
We also we also see the cowboy who is here
is for this second time after after he said he
was coming back.

Speaker 4 (01:42:50):
If you did bad and she did bad.

Speaker 1 (01:42:52):
She did bad, she didn't, she never met him before.

Speaker 4 (01:42:57):
Well, assuming it's all part of the same fantasy, she
did bad more than twice.

Speaker 5 (01:43:02):
So I mean, I think though that that's a little
bit more. That sits a little bit better with me
thinking that, like I was taking this quite literally as
like the literal part of the story, because it's like
Camilla is so cruel, do what I mean? Otherwise, she's
purposely fond of, you know, the director, and she's making

(01:43:26):
out with like you know, and now that makes sense.
And and then to top it all off, the two
of them announce their engagement and at this point she's.

Speaker 2 (01:43:37):
Overcome with jealousy and heartbreak. Diane meets a hitman at
Winkie's Diner and hires him to kill Camilla. We also
see a return of the character earlier in the film
who look straight in the eye, which I still I
don't quite understand yet, you know clearly signfi yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:43:57):
And the waitress is it's Betty Ready yeah, which is where.

Speaker 4 (01:44:04):
She got the name she uses to identify it with herself, right,
And she has with.

Speaker 5 (01:44:09):
Her a bag of money like we've seen before, and
he goes, you got it. She goes, yeah, of course
I do. And he goes, okay, once you hand it over,
there is no going back. Are you sure you want this?
And she goes, I want this more than anything in
the world. And so she hands it over and he says,
do you see this key? And it's the blue key,
the real looking key, And he goes, when I put

(01:44:31):
this key where I tell you I'm going to put it,
you'll know the deed is done. So now all of
a sudden we're learning what that's about.

Speaker 2 (01:44:40):
The hitman tells her when the job's done, she'll find
a blue key and the apartment, and she does. After
receiving the key, Diane descends, apparently into paranoia and guild.
Haunted by hallucinations of the terrifying figure behind Winkie's Diner
and the ghostly presence of both Camilla and Rita, Diane's
mental states seems to deteriorate, and she begins to experience

(01:45:03):
the real nightmare. Nightmara's visions including old people chasing her,
laughing moniacally, which is adorable.

Speaker 1 (01:45:13):
Adorable but also pretty terrifying.

Speaker 4 (01:45:15):
Yes, horrifying, but also absurd.

Speaker 1 (01:45:21):
So I didn't know if these were supposed to like
represent her parents.

Speaker 5 (01:45:25):
Yeah, I didn't understand that either.

Speaker 1 (01:45:28):
Who were maybe like laughing at her, like going and
you're not gonna make it big?

Speaker 5 (01:45:35):
Yeah, I think so probably, But like they're really old
for her parents, you know what I mean. They look
like they be her grandparents.

Speaker 4 (01:45:42):
But they're but they're a stereotype of the old people
who laugh at you for doing something, So they're going
to be over the top.

Speaker 1 (01:45:48):
Yeah they're boomers.

Speaker 4 (01:45:49):
Yeah, in this case, they wouldn't even be boomers, that's true.

Speaker 5 (01:45:55):
Well, okay, so now that you guys had you know,
finished the movie.

Speaker 2 (01:46:00):
Well, I'll finished, and we're not in a state of
overwhelming guilt. Apparently in a state of overwhelming guilt and despair.
Diane takes a gun from her night standing and shoots
herself in the head. And then there's the final there's
final moments of like eerie, disconnected imagery, and then there
is a close up of the woman from Club Salencio

(01:46:22):
whispering Silencio, and the film ends.

Speaker 5 (01:46:27):
Okay, so when you I know, it's been a long time,
but do you remember how you felt when you watched
the movie the first time and it ended?

Speaker 1 (01:46:34):
Yeah, yeah, I was. I was confused. Yeah, so I
was confused, also very impressed, and I felt like the
last thirty minutes had scooped my inside out.

Speaker 4 (01:46:46):
Yeah, like which party insides? Though, like your brains yours,
there's a lot of your insides.

Speaker 1 (01:46:56):
So this is this is interesting. If you know David Lynch,
you would know that he made a kind of a
very similar movie about five years before this called Lost Highway.
And uh, even though I actually like Lost Highway better
than this one, I think mohalland Drive is probably a

(01:47:16):
better movie. Overall, both of them deal with well just
in terms of and film product, I want to say,
and and themes. They both kind of deal with this
idea of like a psychogenic fugue where where a character

(01:47:37):
has developed this new this new personality and this new
life potentially as a response to some traumatic thing that
they have done in their past. And the timelines kind
of folding in on each other over and over is
kind of one of the themes of that. So it's

(01:47:59):
it's a very very similar movie to Lost Highway. But
I think also mulhalland Drive is probably a little bit
better actually, But it's very interesting to see how it
kind of evolved over that short period of time.

Speaker 5 (01:48:14):
But I mean, did you like also, when I saw
this yesterday, I was like, what the hell just happened?
Like I had no idea I and then I immediately
just went to like Google and read it. And then
I once I understood like the idea, the basic idea,
I was like, Okay, that's really cool, and I appreciated
it more and I really, I really it's.

Speaker 1 (01:48:37):
Not so like obtuse that you like literally have no
idea what to think at the end, even if you
look at the explanations there. It kind of still makes sense.
They're not everything makes sense. I'm the first viewing.

Speaker 5 (01:48:54):
What did you think justin this is your movie?

Speaker 2 (01:48:56):
I say, with Josh felt where I felt very disoriented
by it.

Speaker 4 (01:49:01):
You know, I've seen Whirst watched it.

Speaker 5 (01:49:03):
I was.

Speaker 2 (01:49:07):
Just I think I saw it.

Speaker 1 (01:49:11):
This came out when we were eighteen.

Speaker 2 (01:49:15):
I think I saw it not long after. Josh probably
saw it because he's the one who told me, I
think originally told me about it, So I don't think
it was that long after I first came out. I
think came out in two thousand and one. But the
same feeling of being disoriented I had seen Twin Peaks,
and Twin Peaks plays around with a lot of doppel
ganger imagery where he doesn't. He's a very consistent doubling

(01:49:38):
effect in his films where there's multiple characters playing different
roles doing different things. I still feel very disoriented when
I see it, and and I've watched it now probably
a dozen times. And what I love about it, and
I quoted this earlier in our chat, which there's this

(01:49:59):
quote by Claude Levy Strauss, which is food is good
in which to eat, but it's also good in which
to think with, and I really think that applies to
this film, where it's not simply that you're watching a film,
but it really makes you find associations. You know, this time,
I really thought about the location a lot more, and like,

(01:50:20):
you know, all the stuff I was talking about, like
the snow white cottages and the Mahalan Drive or the
Mahan Drive references the landscape the studio, adding a whole
bunch of layers to this film that I didn't consider
the first time I saw. I wasn't even aware you wouldn't.
And I love What I love about the film is
that it does have that kind of deep layering where

(01:50:42):
even though I may not always understand it, I know
that there is something more if I just dig a
little deeper. And to me, that's what I love about
Lynch so much, is that he forces you to kind
of dig deeper, even if you don't necessarily want to.
So I'm god, I saw it disoriented.

Speaker 5 (01:50:57):
You did you grasp it right away?

Speaker 4 (01:51:00):
I don't know, nobody does.

Speaker 2 (01:51:03):
In the original bb D. Maybe Josh remembers this. There
is like this list of ten things that David Lynch
tells you to look for and even then.

Speaker 1 (01:51:12):
I actually didn't find help.

Speaker 4 (01:51:16):
I wouldn't. I wouldn't even look at that list because
that doesn't seem right.

Speaker 1 (01:51:20):
Yeah it was, it was' entrebly. Helpful, no that seems
LIKE i remember going back WHEN IMDb had message. Boards
going through the message, BOARDS i thought was.

Speaker 4 (01:51:30):
Actual people writing for it instead of morons for seven years.

Speaker 5 (01:51:38):
Before, READY i, mean.

Speaker 4 (01:51:42):
They're actually used to be full people running i M.
dB now there are, not.

Speaker 1 (01:51:46):
So it's just all bots, now and it's not even.

Speaker 4 (01:51:50):
Bots they literally let it itself. Moderated so everything on
IMDb is whatever the fun anyone decides it, is and
no one gives a.

Speaker 1 (01:51:58):
Fuck it has really gone.

Speaker 4 (01:52:00):
Down.

Speaker 5 (01:52:01):
Kellen you, know how did you feel when you finished
this film four hours?

Speaker 2 (01:52:05):
Ago this is a good question BECAUSE I i Predicted
kellen would like, it but grudgingly like. It THOUGH i
know that we we have historically be And kellen have
very different tastes and are in different on everything Over,
also when we do, disagree we tend to disagree in sharp.
Angles all, Right.

Speaker 4 (01:52:26):
Yeah eighty nine degrees of difference as? Usually what's going?

Speaker 5 (01:52:31):
On all, Right, kellen let's Go.

Speaker 4 (01:52:34):
My immediate reaction after finishing it WAS i had kind
of come to that about fifteen minutes before it. ENDED
i was, LIKE i THINK i know pretty much HOW
i already feel about this. Movie so that was more
or less, confirmed which is WHAT i was. NOT i
was not as disoriented or as stunned or as annoyed

(01:52:54):
AS i THOUGHT i. Would be. GOOD i was kind
of take that as a. WIN i was right in
the middle of all the FEELINGS i THOUGHT i might
have about. It, THEREFORE i told you this about nine
to twenty four hours. Ago i'm, like keep lowering your expectations,
there get angry about what you're about to, do and

(01:53:16):
see what. Happens but on that, note we're not going
to go over all of the fucking. Clues we're going
to do our final reviews because we've been on this
thing For.

Speaker 5 (01:53:28):
Okay, look the whole Point i'm talking about, THIS i
actually talk about what, happened so we don't have.

Speaker 1 (01:53:34):
Happened it's partly your. Interpretation, Yeah, like, okay.

Speaker 5 (01:53:40):
The whole idea is like the. Reality the closest thing
we have to reality is the last thirty minutes of the,
film which With diane and basically well maybe every the
closest thing that we have is WHAT i understand is.
Accepted and everything that came up to that first those
first two hours was like AND i dealized life that,

(01:54:01):
like the theory is that perhaps this is like this
dream that she had between when she saw the key
that her that that deed was done and when she shot.
Herself and it's this like last glimpse of hope of
maybe this is not what, happened and this is what
you know actually. Did and it makes sense because you
go all the way. Back the first scene that we

(01:54:22):
have With Camilla rita is she escapes a, hit, right
and that sets up the whole thing THAT i, mean
the hit that she put on her right is as
upset as she, was you, know she regrets. It otherwise
she would have blown her brain at brains. Out and
then all of a, sudden she's created this idealized version

(01:54:42):
of you, know of her, girlfriend somebody who is completely
dependent on her and like somebody who is like an inferior.
Actress and this is where are, yeah, yeah and and
this is WHERE i saw WHEN i WHEN i saw love,
scene it made more sense to. Me now it makes

(01:55:03):
sense to me that the first time that we Meet Rita,
camilla she's like naked in the shower because that's like
a sexual connection right that she has with. Her it
makes sense to me that they even have that love
scene and that she's you, know so it seems SO
i didn't get a lot of build up in that.
RELATIONSHIP i think that's WHY i didn't like that scene.
Either it just seemed like their friends and then their
lovers and it just changed abruptly to. Me but the

(01:55:26):
fact that like and then she's that she's in love
with her so, quickly but now you see that it's
because this is her subconscious because that love is already, there,
right that relationship is, there and that makes sense to
me now that there's all that passion that you, know
why she's letting the stranger stay with her and the

(01:55:46):
acting thing is.

Speaker 1 (01:55:48):
And the hit man is totally, inept so maybe he
wasn't he actually didn't get this hit done because he
actually sucks at his.

Speaker 5 (01:55:58):
Job where they think all of those scenes that she
had there were fantasy on many, levels, right like the
hitman she hired was bad at his. Job also giving
her hope that it didn't actually work, out it was
the fact that the director the director who ends up you,
know with you, know the love of her, life has
a series of you, know can't control his, movie gets cheated,

(01:56:21):
on like loses his house, all you, know gets all
of his accounts. Frozen, yeah it's like this history, revision
right of like, yeah you get, it you get, it
you get. It and and THEN i think the acting
thing is really interesting because in this, version you, know
she is this great actress And camilla. Isn't and one
thing WHERE i want to talk about The coco scene
is that it's kind of, implied at least from The reddit.

(01:56:43):
STUFF i don't know if this was reading too much
into it BECAUSE i don't know IF i would have gotten.
It BUT i Think coco's glance is what they might
get this, from but that she you, know got that
lead role through the casting, couch that she sleuck with
the director because.

Speaker 1 (01:56:56):
Now She's AND i think that it's also like interpretation
for the shortcut of the side to the to the
mansion at the, top Like camilla knows the short, CUT
i mean even in the even in the audition quote,
unquote like the the actor is kind of, like, uh you,

(01:57:17):
know being very sexualized With, betty and it seems like
initially she's not really into, it but then kind of
realizes that she has to go that direction to make
this audition to.

Speaker 5 (01:57:26):
Success in her idealized version of. Herself not only is
she a better, actress but she knows how to play
the game.

Speaker 4 (01:57:32):
Better, sure, yeah, yeah, right and, yeah the whole thing
is like a microcosm of how much better she could
be in her own mind that.

Speaker 5 (01:57:41):
Well AND i, think, yeah, OKAY i think the WHOLE
i think the Whole mafia scene that was so this
is WHY I i, MEAN i can make this fast
BECAUSE i could just, say and you guys can tell
me If i'm wrong or, right BUT i think this.

Speaker 1 (01:57:54):
Well nobody knows, that, right BUT i THINK i don't Worry.

Speaker 4 (01:57:59):
Erica i'll tell you if you're wrong or.

Speaker 5 (01:58:00):
Right BUT i JUST i feel like to go on and,
like you, know not address why this stuff. Is there is,
weird but all that those drawn, out Painful mafia scenes
right where they're staring at each other with coffee for
you guys for, us but calling to, Me i'm more
on the same side. There the whole cowboy, thing you,
know you got to Cast. Camilla to, me that is

(01:58:21):
a really exaggerated version to say, that, Like hollywood isn't
based On. Marrior it's a self justification to say, that
LIKE i am only not in the leading roles because
it's all, corrupt not Because i'm a bad, actress but
because it's all, corrupt.

Speaker 4 (01:58:35):
And, yeah because other factors have always moved against me
the whole.

Speaker 1 (01:58:41):
Time so it's not it's this is not my, fault.

Speaker 2 (01:58:45):
You, Know, Erica i've watched this movie dozens of like
just a dozen times, now AND i started off, sadly
but you, know the theory that you're talking, about the
dream reality, theory Is you're, right it's like the most popular.
One the More i've watched, it the More i've kind
of defaulted to. This it's it's it's pure, surrealism which is,

(01:59:05):
ultimately you, know the idea of pure surrealism is it's
it's not meant to be. Solved it can be all those,
things and there are elements to all those. Things it
is a critique Of. Hollywood it is perhaps a. Critique
it's everything and. Nothing and WHAT i love about the surrealist,
movement and this is where you Know David lynch is
clearly coming, from is that it's it's good to think

(01:59:28):
like it exists that forces you to come to some
sort of, Conclusion like it's not designed to work towards a.
Solution it's designed to make you make connections in ways
that you wouldn't have.

Speaker 1 (01:59:42):
Made AND i, think to, me you have you have
to be the. Detective you have to be the.

Speaker 2 (01:59:46):
Detective and that's HOW i kind of default to it. Now,
SO i, MEAN i don't, know BUT i. Agree there
is the dream. Interpretation there is A nietzschean internal recurrence interpretation.

Speaker 4 (01:59:57):
Reality but they're like different.

Speaker 1 (01:59:59):
Timeline like versions of, reality you, know with with different
choices that could have been, made the outcomes would have
been very. Different you. Know it's interesting to think about the.

Speaker 2 (02:00:13):
MARKET i just.

Speaker 4 (02:00:13):
Feel, like, yeah just shows up and snaps.

Speaker 5 (02:00:17):
ALL i JUST i feel like THERE'S i THINK i
get what you're, saying BUT i also feel like there's
got to be some level of like this is What
i'm going. For otherwise you can't just put nonsense together
and be like interpres how you.

Speaker 1 (02:00:34):
Were David lynch knows what the full interpretation. Is well
maybe he. Doesn't, ACTUALLY i, mean BUT i don't know
my own. Theories nobody else is.

Speaker 4 (02:00:44):
Going to know the Official that's why we should just
let's go to the. Reviews let's stop this.

Speaker 2 (02:00:49):
Nonsense IF i could give you some context to How
David lynch crafts a, script he talks about it In Lynchhawn.
Lynch what he does is he takes no cards and
he starts writing out ideas on. Him and when he
gets to ninety note cards With, conker with ninety different
ideas on, him he organizes them into a movie and
that's the, movie like for, real that's for. Real he

(02:01:11):
free associates ideas in one sake snap into a structure.

Speaker 1 (02:01:14):
That he that can't work for every. Movie he can't for.

Speaker 2 (02:01:17):
Everything but that's but that's just his.

Speaker 1 (02:01:20):
PROCESS i think there's there's no way that was the
process Of Elephant.

Speaker 2 (02:01:24):
Man well did he write the script For Elephant? MAN
i thought someone else.

Speaker 1 (02:01:28):
DID i don't think he.

Speaker 2 (02:01:29):
Did, actually, yeah BUT i think of the films that he,
WRITES i think that's how he. Proceeds now does it
change as he was making? It certainly that's not how
you Made Twin peaks because he Had Mark. Frost BUT
i think most of his films that's the process he.

Speaker 1 (02:01:44):
Uses actually he did he was one of the three
co writers on The but here's.

Speaker 4 (02:01:48):
WHAT i didn't.

Speaker 5 (02:01:48):
Understand like one the other THING i wanted to point
out THAT i thought was, cool that was like the dream.
ILLUSION i had mentioned before that it was important to
talk about the money and the key in the. Box
AND i feel like it's when she sees the money
and the, key, right that is the trigger that brings
her back.

Speaker 4 (02:02:02):
Into that dream. Reality.

Speaker 5 (02:02:05):
RIGHT i love how like she literally like you, know
when you have trauma or, something you, know you bury
it in the back of your, mind and like, that
it's just literally bury it in a, closet you. Know
but like WHAT i don't understand ARE i don't understand
that scene with the guy with the dream in the,
beginning that diner, scene AND i don't understand that does
that guy in the black you know.

Speaker 1 (02:02:28):
Whatever my interpretation of that is that that's he is
the representation of like the dark side Of hollywood or
the dark side Of Los. Angeles what you don't, see
but if you go looking for, it you will see.

Speaker 4 (02:02:41):
It he's just the drug addiction that she fell. Into
after the, fact she literally goes into an alley Behind
denny's On sunset boulevard and gets stuff from a goblin
that gives her. Hallucination that's just a drug.

Speaker 2 (02:02:58):
Metaphor this Isn't callin's getting. Frazzled so let's go ahead
and move on to final. Interpretation, So ladies and gentlemen
today on The Heavily mandate on The David Lynch Violent masturbation.
Scale The Heavily mandates will rank this film on a
scale from one to, ten with the best film is

(02:03:19):
being Like rizza to Quote rizza busting a nut from raw,
sex so that's a ten out of. Ten the worst
films are Like naomi watch furiously masturbating on a, couch
so that's zero out of.

Speaker 4 (02:03:29):
Ten an average, filmer, sorry.

Speaker 2 (02:03:39):
And average films are like missionary masturbation with a, condom
so five out of. Ten how do you rank this, Film, ERIC, i, yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:03:54):
But we're going to change. That we're going back to
our stones of enlightenment or. WHATEVER i give it an. Eight,
HONESTLY i liked. IT i didn't for a long. Time, yeah,
YEAH i will say the first two HOURS i thought
it was, slow it was a little boring at, times
it was. WEIRD i don't love those, things BUT i

(02:04:14):
like a good like mind fuck and at the, END
i like the thinking films AND i AM i, AM
i like, IT i like talking about, IT i like the,
clues AND i want to watch More David.

Speaker 1 (02:04:25):
Lynch all, Right SO i don't think Muhalland drive is
my Favorite David lynch. Film that would be Lost. Highway
BUT i do think it's his best. Film this is
a masterpiece of, surrealism, mystery comedy and. Horror it's one
of those rare films that is a true onion in
terms of its complex. Layering AND i get something new

(02:04:48):
every TIME i watch. It ten stones out of ten
AND i have a poem Called it's The Mulholland Drive
poem written By Meta. Ai you know what you're.

Speaker 4 (02:05:05):
Doing you already know what you're doing.

Speaker 1 (02:05:07):
On mulholland's Winding. DRIVE a cowboy's hat and boots, resigne
a symbol of a Bygone, WEST a mystery that's hard to.
Test in a, cafe a cup is, placed espresso that's
not quite, right a taste that's searched for but can't be.
Found a disappointment that's hard to. DROWN a beauty shines

(02:05:32):
with chest so. Fine Naomi watts a star. Divine her
talent grows like a radiant, light a guiding force through
the dark of, night but shadows hide a creeping, fear
a homeless man with eyes that peer into the soul
with a haunting, stare a presence that's unsettling. Beyond Compare

(02:05:55):
Mulholland's drive a Winding, road a journey through the highs
and the low place of, dreams of mystery and, might
where the lines blur between day and. NIGHT i love, that.

Speaker 4 (02:06:07):
MAN i thought it was gonna keep.

Speaker 2 (02:06:12):
Going, no that's it, Nice So josh uh So erica
is almost to the top of the, scale but not.
Quite josh has it's uh bustling that from real, sex all, Right.

Speaker 6 (02:06:29):
Hellen obviously this goes back, aways as we have alluded
to through numerous, references that no one will ever know
because it's between like four of.

Speaker 4 (02:06:41):
Us, Eventically i've not seen A David lynch movie in
quite some. Time this is the first, endeavor probably since early.
College AND i intentionally went in blind and intentionally went,
in AS i Told, erica progressively lowering my expectations the whole,
time BECAUSE i am ready to hate anything that appears

(02:07:06):
to exist solely for the sake of its own art.
FORM i am notorious for despising anyone that has to
SCREAM i am The, king, because as we learned In
game Of, thrones anyone who has to YELL i am

(02:07:27):
The king is not the. King that's just their way
of compensating for. It and anyone who has to make
a movie that screams this is art is not really
that much of an. Artist they're just screaming. It so
that being, said this movie was not actually. That it
was comfortably at least a relaxation point from. That, so

(02:07:51):
actually this movie was a little bit of a relief
from WHAT i built myself up to WHAT i braced
myself to a. Stand this was not. Incomprehensible this was not.
Surrealism i'm sorry for whatever you guys. THOUGHT i don't
think this is surrealism at. All this is a movie

(02:08:13):
that is trying very hard at several, points especially to
find a, plot because there is a plot in this.
Movie there is a. Story it is. Concrete it is
not willy. Nilly it is merely a story that is
interpreted through a specific lens that lends itself to. That
but as far As i'm, concerned this is a pretty comprehensible.

(02:08:35):
Story there's some weird side things that don't make one
hundred percent, sense Although i'm sure if you drew out
A Charlie kelly corkboard with red, yarn you might find
a way to make sense of every single. Scene but
ultimately this is just a psychological mystery with a few
layers of delusion in. It it is definitely an inspiration

(02:08:58):
to Early Christopher, noah for. Sure it is also in
the bare bones of M Night, SHYAMALAN i would, think
and probably whoever the fuck Directed Vanilla, sky absolutely A mexican.
DIRECTOR i believe all of these things are. Ingredients but

(02:09:19):
ULTIMATELY i don't think this movie was actually that out of.
Whack there were some weird, asides but it really didn't
feel like it was that strange to, me BECAUSE i
do completely believe that whatever the story, became what it
originated as was the delusion of someone who came To
hollywood and had a bad time with a bad, relationship

(02:09:43):
and everything can kind of stem from. That The Cohen
brothers definitely tap into this throughout most of their nineties
and early two thousands, Work So i'm not going to
give this A sterling, review because, ULTIMATELY i think this
would have been a better story tale Of hollywood if
it had not had these little flourishes added to make

(02:10:06):
it more obtuse or more. OBSCURE i think it would
have been better served as a clean cut but delirious.
Narrative SO i am going to give this a one
above missionary. Masturbation as you, say it did the job

(02:10:26):
better THAN i thought it would, do SO i cannot discredit.
It i'm not going to give it great. Plaudits but
this is by no means some sort of, obtuse weird
thing that nobody can. WATCH i. DON'T i think that's
that's a false that's a false, narrative much like all
of the story was.

Speaker 2 (02:10:44):
So Maholland drive is a simple film about a simple
story about A hollywood, dream, nightmares, lesbians, cowboys dumpster, monsters
and express those. Snobbery this is one of the great
gifts That Josh Bill's borough has given, me and it's
truly an abiding and important part of my. Life this

(02:11:06):
will be always a ten out of ten, film and
thank you so much for sharing these. Going ALL i
gotta say is, Boying, Boying, Boying. Boying that was, lovely
thank you.

Speaker 4 (02:11:20):
All mandate out one, two three bits Of. Poems it's,

(02:11:49):
dank straight up