April 29: Referees are Human Too, Reporting on Off-Ice Incidents, Avalanche Force Game 7

Matinee Money, refereeing in the postseason, Colorado Avalanche organization not commenting on Valeri Nichushkin, Cale Makar's suspension, Eberle's hit on Cogliano, Jets and Wild and Islanders eliminated, Game 7s

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Now it's our turn too. Sorryfor the words, but with our balls
on the table. Remember, Kats, this is not how you play hockey.
It's just struggling. I like it. See you God, you know
what. I love my streak togo back to Canada de la Blair.

(00:25):
Game one, Yeah, game one. Hello, and welcome into the hockey
show right here on my high Sport, Colorado's biggest, the best live hockey
radio show. J J. Jarez. That is I, Ryan Bolding of
NHL dot Com. That is me, that is you. Thank you for
joining us today, Ryan, Um, I was on time. That's like

(00:46):
two weeks in a row, maybethree. Have I been late in the
playoffs? I don't know if Ihave got me U. It's interesting how
the playoff format is working out forus this year. I feel like it
hasn't been like this in years past. I agree um to where it's almost
you know, every Saturday, it'slike we're basically looking ahead to the next
round, right, I mean,we've got a handful of teams already eliminated,

(01:08):
handful of teams going to be eliminatedby the end of let's call it
Monday, and um, we'll alreadybe looking ahead to round two. We'll
already be in round two. Yeah, and by the time we're here next
week, it'll be round two andwe'll be in the thick of it.
And who knows if we're still gonnabe covering NHL games or not, because
of course there's a game seven tomorrowwith the Colorado Avalanche and the Seattle Cracking

(01:30):
right here at Ball Arena, seventhirty pm time on a Sunday tie.
Thank you at HL. Thanks.I hate it. Um. As we
start, I want to point outthat there were like a two there were
two pm games and such last Sunday. They hate us. Yeah, I

(01:51):
blame the Nuggets. I don't thinkthe Nuggets have anything to do with this.
Are they not at home tonight?They are at home tonight. They're
at home tonight in Monday. Yeah, they could have a they could have
the court off of their bike.I just felt like two am blaming them
made the most sense. All right, let's blame them. So yeah,
with that, we can get intoour Mattenee money picks. I know you
have a lot, so I'll startwith my one simple little parlay here,

(02:14):
my parlay. Actually, I wantyou to start with yours, because mine
here He waited until I took asip of coffee and then was like,
actually, I'm gonna call mine Mattand Evening money, Matt and Evening Money,
and uh, Mine's gonna kind ofgo right into the next conversation.
It's gonna flow right through. It'sperfect. Let's get you out of the
way. And then he is worryabout the ones that matter. He's the
leaf on the wind everyone for me. I'm gonna preface this by saying that

(02:38):
I was up and now I amnot. I have gone oh for the
last twenty six bets I've made.I went and counted last night in my
sorrows. But I like to doas bad as the Avs power play.
Yeah it is. It is almostthat bad. It's actually worse. But
I like to do like five orsix picks a night. So just so

(02:59):
you don't think, wow, that'slike a year's worth of picks at my
five dollar price point. So Ilet's go into it. Mitch Marner first
goal to night plus sixteen hundred.I actually think I hit that the last
time. I bet it seems unlikely. I don't know what it is about
Toronto not scoring first, but they'vegot a little bit of an avalanche.

(03:20):
I just going on there. Yougot an ask some AI. I've seen
some AI over the week, lastcouple of weeks. Pick first. It
has been in the NBA, whoscores first basket? But AI is getting
it right. Maybe see what theyhave Suddy. We all know what happens
when Skynet becomes the sentient, soI don't I don't mess with AI.
Next, I've got anytime goal scoresrightom point. Mika's a Benegat who dude

(03:45):
has no goals? An Adrian Kempydude has all the goals plus twelve to
sixty five. So that's a hailMary. It's not quite the Mitch Marner
plus sixteen hundred hail Mary, butit's a hail Mary. This one surprisingly
low odds for me. The Devilsto score the first goal, Jack used
to score anytime, the Rangers tohave under two point five goals, and
the Devils to win is only plusfive hundred. I mean that the odds

(04:08):
in that game are both minus oneten and I think for both teams,
right, So it's pretty even who'sgonna win it. Maybe the Rangers are
a little favored, but I don'tknow. Then I took the Rangers,
the Lightning and the Kings at plusseven twenty seven. Interesting, you got
the Lightning tonight. I just alot of a lot of the parlays that

(04:29):
were offered to me were I'd thinktoo hard to hit, you know,
like I've been making somewhere. It'slike Jason Robertson to get one point and
Miko Ranton and to have two pointsand Brent Burns to have an assist,
and then Brent Burn's not having theassist is the thing that sinks the bet,
right, So I just figured,let's look at a couple of upsets

(04:50):
here, like the Rangers are thelower seed, the Lightning are the lower
seed, the Kings are the lowerseed. Let's take a bending against the
crowd, or maybe even against yourinitial intuition. Well, every time I
bet the higher seed, they've beenlosing. I'm over my last twenty six.
The last time I hit was aplus one hundred plus two hundred Patrick

(05:11):
Kane to score a goal, Ithink, and that one was like a
Hail Mary that landed. I'm bettingwith the crowd on mine. So first
I'm gonna start with Connor McDavid overon shots. Of course at games not
till eight pm, so it's nota Mattenee money pick, but it seemed
like the safest pick tonight because Idon't know what's going to happen in these
games. I think there's a lotI thought you did up in the air.
I don't. I didn't ask Aieither, so I don't. I

(05:34):
don't. I think it's too hardto pick those with putting money down.
Sure i'd pick them if there wasnothing involved, but I don't take any
Mattenee money bets, or I don'tgive any Mattenee money bets that I don't
take myself, So same, Iput money on all of these, right,
So I got McDavid's over on threeand a half shots. You know
he's gonna be shooting, he's gonnatry to get his team through. Plus
they get a lot of power plays. LA has been so undisciplined in that

(05:57):
series and it's been killing them.But I'm gonna add that with the Nuggets
minus two and a half. Whyminus two and a half when the line
right now is minus three and ahalf JJ, I don't understand. Well,
it opened at minus two and ahalf, all right, and then
I've been following the conspiracies in theNBA. You just see from your eyes
and the look you're giving me thatwe're going in a tinfoil direction. Not
only that, we know that themafia is big on NBA bets, right,

(06:20):
so when the mafia is chipping in, you know there's probably something there.
So the line already has moved fromnuggets two and a half to nuggets
three and a half, which tellsme a the wise guys, the mobsters
are seeing something or they got theref in their pockets or something, and
the line has moved because so muchmoney has been going on, and the
minus two and a half that itmoved to three and a half. So
I'm saying, okay, I'm goingto join the two and a half worse

(06:43):
odds, but when you parlay themwith the McDavid plus one seventy five,
crazy, right, I know?With that though, refs in the pockets.
I wanted to get into the conversationabout refereeing so far this playoffs because
there's been a lot of chatter aboutit so far, and of course you
know from each fan base, theyall think that their team is being hosed
and getting got by the referees.But Greg Wushinsky did a dive into this

(07:08):
friend of the show. Actually,I think if the stats are correct,
he's been on the show as aguest more times than any other guests we've
had, so leading friend of theshow, the best friend of the show,
I would say, Yeah, Ireally liked his article about the refereeing
so far in the playoffs. Butmy biggest takeaway from that article I know
you read it this morning as well, is simply it feels like the answer

(07:30):
is that we have no answer.This is just the refereeing you're gonna have
to put up with for eternity anduntil somehow they figure out AI and to
get them involved in refereeing. You'rejust gonna have to deal with these mistakes
that human referees make. So here'show I look at it. The number
one thing that this article told usis that people are people and officials are

(07:55):
human, and like the game isplayed by people, and so there isn't
a perfect salute, just like life, there's no perfect solution to any of
this, right. I do thinkthere's a propensity, Like if you look
at online reviews, you know,usually people are not inspired to comment unless
they have a negative experience, right, And so it gets under my skin

(08:18):
a little bit. I think allof the complaining about officiating because I don't
necessarily feel like it's any different nowthan it is in the regular season or
that it has been historically, exceptthat kind of like Greg says, we're
inundated with technology. Now. Wehave four KTVs, we have you known

(08:39):
cameras, one hundred cameras in thebuilding. We have all of these different
repay angles, and we're saying,how dare you miss this split millisecond play
that happened when the puck was,you know, to your right and the
play was to your left? Howdare you miss that when we can all
see it this thirty seven times inslow motion? How how could you?
You know? I think to me, all it does is make what the

(09:01):
officials do more impressive in my mindthat they can do it. And if
you've ever officiated a hockey game,like I had a little bit when I
worked at do You in college,it's not easy, you know, you
know, have to be looking forspecific things, and these people are trained
to do that. So while you'rewatching, you know, the puck and
the play developed, they are watchingother things as well, and you got

(09:24):
to give them credit for being inposition to make calls. Sometimes there's weird
stuff that happens. You know,there was the puck that was on who
was it? Was it the Islanderswas on Sirokan's leg. No, that
was Alex Lion. Yeah, AlexLion. The puck on Alex lion leg
when Boston chipped that puck in rightand Alex lyon. For my viewpoint on

(09:46):
television at home on my couch,the puck is on the far side of
him from the official, and theofficial I believe is supposed to blow the
play dead when they lose sight ofthe puck right, So Lion looks like
he's made this save, and Iguess the officials are looking at the players
and the players are still moving likethey see the puck loose, So the
play goes on. It's a goal, and I think, wow, that's

(10:09):
interesting that that wasn't blown dead,right, But benefit of the doubt of
multiple replays, we see stuff likethat. The other thing I think is
that there's no easy solution to this, you know, this problem, this
perceived bad officiating situation. Mshinski mentionsputting guys out of the ice off the
ice up in a box. Ithink that makes quite a bit of sense.

(10:31):
Have an extra official up in thebox that can see stuff, you
know. I think there was justa couple of things. Johnny Gord got
high sticked in the game last night, no call, you know, does
it result in a goal the otherway or anything? No, is a
powerplay, a difference maker when they'retrailing. Maybe right. I also thought
ar Terry Lechinin just falls on topof Philip Grubauer maybe at the speed of

(10:56):
action in front of you in realtime, it looks like he's pushed right,
and then you watch the replay andhe basically is just like, oh,
oh no, I'm tripping and fallson him. Could have been a
penalty, but you know, it'shard to fault what happens in real time,
you know, on these guys andsay, oh they're doing a bad
job, or oh they have itout for the fan base or whatever.

(11:16):
I would say. Maybe an exceptionto that is the Marcus Felino situation.
Shouldn't the past tense of high stickbe high stuck? Sticked? High stuck?
No? I think you're you're right. I mean again, the article
really made it seem like and DaveJackson was interviewed in it as well,
and I think he did great withhis responses. But the takeaway for me

(11:39):
is, again, they're doing theirbest. They do they do okay.
Yes, there are some miscalls.Sure there are some bad calls, but
again there's no real solution. Sureyou can add more reviews, but that's
not necessarily good for the game.Another part that really stuck out to me
that I feel, I guess personallyconnected to was how he mentioned that when
they're picking referees for the NHL thatsize is a big part of it.

(12:03):
Right. I walk into that buildinga lot of times Ball Arena while the
referees are warming up the other game, and I'm often taken back by like,
Wow, these guys are big.These guys look like I'm Sometimes I'm
like, is that an NHL player? Is that a referee? These are
big, young dudes that are readyto take on you know, the situations
that referees fall in, which Iguess, you know, I don't really
have a feeling about it one wayor another, but it's something I've noticed

(12:26):
firsthand right walking into that building,and and it makes sense. You want
you've got four guys with stripes onin that rink against ten twelve guys that
you got to hold back. Youneed some strapping, big guys that can
handle themselves, along with guys thatknow the game and are well trained enough
to be good referees. It's acertain person you're looking for, right me,

(12:46):
and you probably wouldn't make the cutas NHL referees, even though we're
brilliant, even though we're geniuses whenit comes to the NHL rules. In
the NHL, we see everything.Yeah, I think two. Do you
need guys who are athletic who canbe in position. That's a big thing.
They need to be in position tosee what's going on. You know,
watch. I challenge everyone to watch. What refs do you know during

(13:07):
a game? I think it's prettyimpressive. One of the things I noticed
in Game five at Paul Arena issomebody I can't remember. I think it
was Jaden Schwartz loves to make thiscorner cut when he has the puck in
the offensive zone. But he's alwaysdoing it right in front of the ref
and I'm always like, the dudeis going to blast this ref into oblivion

(13:28):
one of these times. It's justlike the spot he's made. But watch
where these guys are, watch howthey put themselves in position, and then
keep in mind playoffs are different,Hockey is different. In the postseason,
there is a lot less riff raffkind of hockey stuff going on, unnecessary
penalties occurring generally, but the paceof the game is the fastest and the

(13:52):
strongest, and the hardest and themost toeing the linest you are going to
get. These guys are going rightup to the edge and trying to tow
that line, and so it's goingto create situations that are not black and
white, that are gray, thatare hard to call, that are hard
to see in real time. Itreally is. And that's kind of the
fact of the matter, is thatyou know it's the game is upped,

(14:15):
and so there are fewer opportunities.I like the point that sometimes, at
least in overtime, officials are hesitantto make a call because they don't want
to manage the game. And Ithink the number one easiest complaint, nitpicky
complaint fans could have this The officialsare trying to manage the game. They're
trying to insert themselves into the game, They're trying to have an impact on

(14:35):
that, So they spend all theirtime not doing that, and then there's
an uproar about how they're not doingenough for they're letting too much go.
There's no right answer when it comesto referee. I mean, if people
could just complain less in general andeverything would be fine in fifteen seconds or
less. How have you felt theabs cracking series has been officiated so far?
I think it's been fine. Ithink it's gone both ways. I

(14:58):
mean, we can get into kilmacarour situation, we can get in the
Jordan Everley situation. I think theofficiating has been the officiating and it doesn't
matter. The number one thing I'dpoint to is Nathan McKinnon getting tripped,
trip or not, he throws atantrum, he doesn't change, the play
goes the other way. It resultsin a goal. That's on your attitude.
Yeah, we'll get into it morein the next portion. Here,
we're gonna get into Kale mccarr andbound the chin with two Avalanche insiders.

(15:22):
Stick around, find out who theyare. This is a hockey show,
my high Sports. We'll be rightback. JJ dres Ryan bolding coach Bailey
behind the glass. Well right now, it's sixteen minutes past the big hour,

(15:52):
is heading that right, mister Screab? Great good too. I think
people are getting really cranked. Sowelcome back the hockey show right here on
my Sports. It's actually funny thatDanny Bailey threw this song in today because

(16:12):
on my way over here, Iwas skimming through my satellite radio stations and
this song came up, and Isaid, oh, this is a song
I haven't heard in a long time. This was popular in my high school
days. Next, I just livevicariously through my high school days music,
so I probably would have listened toit, just some of the Sometimes you

(16:33):
hear a song that you're like,this wasn't good back then, This isn't
good now? Why is this asong that still is alive? Wow?
Danny, Wow. I appreciate yourmusical choice versus all the songs that are
so good out there from the pastthat you don't hear all like at all.
Well, some of them never evenmade the radio, you know what
I'm You know what I'm saying.I know, you know, call those

(16:53):
hidden gems, Yeah, exactly.Jay Z's got a whole library of them.
Let's get into the thing. ColoradoAvalanche. Like I said, we've
got two Avalanche insiders joining us,so welcome to the show, JJ and
Ryan Avalanche insiders. How you guysdoing good? Thank you for having us.
We're here excited to talk about theAvalanche first and foremost. I think

(17:17):
the Kao mccar's suspension was the talkof the week, right, very hit
or miss I mean black or white? A lot of different opinions, but
basically it felt like fifty fifty thoughtit was a penalty or a suspension worthy
penalty. The other fifty thought itwas bogus. I guess what say you,
Ryan Bolden? I think that youhave to suspend the scenario regardless of

(17:41):
intent. And I think that whatscenario are you referring to? Exactly?
I'm talking about him hitting Jared McCannhard, medium or small, It doesn't
matter. Well away from the puck. You know, is the play still
alive because no whistle has blown?Yeah, but the play for all intents

(18:02):
and purposes, is dead because afan in Tacoma, Washington is catching that
puck at the moment of the hit. Right. I understand Kayle mccarr's position.
Right. We know I've said thisbefore. This is a dude who
literally waved off a penalty earlier thisseason when he was falling. It even
looked like he got tripped, buthe was like, no, I was

(18:22):
falling, don't give him a penalty, And everybody in the entire hockey universe
was like, what just happened?He doesn't He said it himself. He
doesn't go out there intending to hurtanybody. It was an unfortunate play.
I think the competitive situation warrants himmaking a fifty fifty decision, and that
is he shot I don't know wherethe puck is. He appears to know

(18:44):
where the puck is. I haveto play it like he's going to the
puck because I cannot give up thecompetitive advantage by not doing so. Where
Unfortunately, Jared McCann is not readyfor a hit or contact because he knows
the puck is out of play andhe's just curling out and he gets crushed
and he gets hurt, and that'sthe unfortunate part about it. But I
do think it's suspendable. You haveto suspend a hit away from the play

(19:08):
because if you do not, thenit's open season. That's I guess that's
a take. I haven't heard yet. My question to you, if Jared
McCann pops up, there's no injury, there's nothing that happens, maybe a
little post whistle scrum because hey,you hit my player, I'm gonna come
bully you. Do we even haveDo we still have a suspension? Then

(19:29):
I don't think so. But theegregious lateness of the scenario I think is
a factor in it. Right.But I've seen a lot after what happened
in Game six with Jordan Everley,I've seen a lot of people say,
what is even suspendable anymore? Wedon't know what the criteria is? Yes,
you do. You do know whatsome of the criteria is, right,

(19:49):
Some of it is intent and someof it is injury. And whether
you agree with it or not ifa player is injured factors into a decision
to suspend someone or not. Andas for a long time now, it's
like the common frustration for me andhockey is just the inability to keep it
consistent based off different players abilities orjust personalities. Right. You see it

(20:11):
all the time in a men's league. A stick maybe hits somebody in the
legs, and because that player isn'tnecessarily strong, on their skates, they
go down, penalty is called.The same stick hits a maybe a faster,
better skater in the legs, doesn'taffect him at all, no call
is made, right, I feelthat's the same scenario here because McCann went
down, because he hits his headand is out for a game or a

(20:34):
few games. They have to havesome repercussions. But then you look at
Jordan Everleigh and because because Andrew Cogglianois able to get back on the ice
finished the game, because that's justwho he is. I mean, he
reminds me of the guy from AustinPowers, right Will Ferrell's character where who
just won't die? Why won't youdie? That's Andrew Coggliano in a nutshell.

(20:56):
And the fact that he came backto the game, it makes it
feel like it influenced no suspension.Obviously we don't know. We didn't.
We didn't hear that because whether ornot a player is injured on the play
as a factor in suspension. Andhe came back, he returned to the
game, he kept playing, Soon the one hand, on a just
looking at it from a competitive advantageor disadvantage in a game before you get

(21:18):
there. One hit was to theshoulder, the other arted Cogliano. It
was an ugly play. Could itbe suspendable? Yes, right, But
it resulted in a penalty. Itresulted in a power play and Andrew Coggliano
return So what I'm saying competitive advantagedisadvantage scenario here right, McCann leaving the

(21:40):
game permanently early. I mean,that's a major competitive disadvantage. I think
that's part of it. Right,Andrew Coggliano returning like he always does from
some horrendous play. It's a miraclelike that dude is like, you know,
what's that stretch? Armstrong? He'sjust made a rubber that guy.
I mean that it doesn't provide asmuch of a competitive disadvantage. Maybe he's

(22:03):
not as capable of playing because he'shurt. Now, I don't know.
I think he looked his normal selfpost that which is which is broken and
fighting through. I think that's afactor in it. You know, I
don't know that Everley should or shouldnot have been suspended for the play,
but it was. It was apenalty, and it was called a penalty,

(22:26):
and luckily Cogliano wasn't hurt, andwe know, those are factors in
it. Did Everley intend to messCogliano up? I think that's hard to
say, you know, watching thereplay, you look at it and you're
like, I don't know what he'sexpecting from Cogliano in terms of protection here,
because Cogliano doesn't see him coming,he doesn't turn. You know,
it's just a bad play altogether.Whereas I mean maccary hits him in the

(22:51):
shoulder, it's a clean hit,but it's an egregious interference and an unfortunate
result which is out of anybody's control, and it's pure luck. So basically
point of it, okay that I'mtalking about, it's it's outside of just
the immediate So in a freak accidentwhere maybe you step on my stick and

(23:12):
then you go down, you slamyour head into the ice, you start
bleeding out of your ears. SuddenlyI'm liable for a suspension. No,
but you can't hit a guy whenthe puck is landing up in the stands
in the far corner. You justcan't. I think that's as much sending
a message to the rest of theleague as any You cannot do this boarding.
I mean, it is what itis. And it's dangerous, right,

(23:33):
but it happens pretty regularly. Youdon't often see a guy just get
crushed away from the puck for nono reason. We know what the reasons,
but you know what I'm saying,I do. One thing's for certain.
If they were to ever get thisright, we'd have nothing to talk
about. I mean, look,we filled half the show already talking about
referees and miscalls, and I wantto say that just because one thing happened

(23:56):
and then another thing happened does notmake them equivalent. Right, Enough with
the false equivalency stuff, Enough withthe whining about it. There is so
much whining from media and fans like, well but but this Kale Macar that
so Jordan Everley this, Like,no, it's it's not it's different scenarios,
it's different games. It's probably differentofficials, you know, like in

(24:21):
your mind, yes, there's arunning ledger of equivalences and everything has to
line up to be perfect. Butthat's not how sport works. Yeah,
I hear you on the consistency part. I do right. And then throwing
in power plays is really where whereit gets sticky, because you are giving
a team an advantage based off yourdecision making, and so you know there's
a direct effect on the game beyondjust suspensions afterward. But live in the

(24:45):
moment. And let's tie this mcarsituation back to the Great Tensi article twenty
nineteen, the NHL empowered their officialsto call a major, use video review,
to resend a major, a minor, or, to rescind it to
no penalty whatsoever. So when kilmccarr goes up to the podium and says,

(25:06):
this is probably the first time inNHL history that a play went from
no call to a five minute,to a two minute to a suspension,
I mean, maybe it's a fundamentallack of understanding that the rules have changed
five years ago to allow this.And I do appreciate in a review scenario
the officials saying, let's call thisa major, let's look at the video

(25:26):
and decide what to do from there, so we get it right, right,
And where did we see this?We saw this with the Matt Dumba
hit on Joe Pavelski. Now youdon't have to agree that it wasn't a
penalty worthy play. You know,I think it's an ugly play. I
thought it was interference because the timingwas off. The officials did not,

(25:47):
right, but they took the timeto say, we're calling a five minute
major. We're gonna look at thevideo and we'll rule from there. It's
hard to argue against that methodology,right, because they want to make sure
that it's right. They want tomake sure that they're not giving Colorado too
large of a disadvantage for a playthat maybe they barely saw because nobody expected
Jared McCann to get hit there exceptfor Carol mccarr. And then they make

(26:12):
a decision right. So it didn'thurt the Avalanche in that game, it
hurt them the next game when theleague stepped in and said, well,
you can't just hit a guy inthe corner. It's too bad we don't
have more access to the conversations thereferees have when they huddle together, right,
because I'd love to hear the Ithink this. It's not like they
all can join and they all areon the same page right out of the

(26:34):
gate, right, I'd love tohear the back and forth to what leads
them to come to the conclusions theycome to when another scenario that happens is
puck over the glass. Right,Sometimes they get together and they're like,
who saw what? Are we certainthis didn't hit a stick, It didn't
hit the glass, didn't hit theboards, It just went straight over.
I mean, I know lots offans hate the delay of game penalty,

(26:55):
right, but on the same token, lots of people complain when it happens
or doesn't happen. And it's like, at least allow the officials, you
know, the opportunity to discuss itand make a ruling from there. Let's
turn the corner here and shift gearsto the other conversation, maybe the second
dairy conversation surrounding the Colorado avalanche.And that's the Valanchushkin situation. Right.

(27:18):
We all know the facts, weknow what's out. Nobody's gonna get informed
by listening to us right here,What I want from you, Ryan,
as a former team employee, aformer sausage maker, as you will,
you know you've not only seen thesausage being made, you've made it yourself,
having worked for the PR. I'mcurious the PR department. I'm curious
what goes into a situation like this, right, A bad news, something

(27:42):
that could possibly tarnish the image ofthe organization as well as the image of
a player that they want to protect. You know, what goes on behind
the scenes when a situation like thisarises among the team. Yeah, this
one's tricky because I didn't work throughany scandal larger than Patrick WA's abrupt resignation

(28:03):
from the team. What about Varley? I didn't work for the team then,
So you know, it is Ithink a multifaceted situation that revolves around
different approaches simultaneously, one of whichis the standard for at least this organization,

(28:26):
probably most, and that is we'regoing to say nothing, right,
And I'm not necessarily sure it's theirresponsibility to say anything. You know,
while this person was a member ofthe team and was representing the team to
a degree, whatever is occurring isoccurring in his personal time and situation,

(28:51):
and there's crossover with the team,but it's not inofficial team capacity necessarily.
You know. Now, if youare on a you work for a company,
and you're on a company retreat somewhereand this same situation occurs with you,
I mean, yes, it evolvesyou as a representative of the company
at some point, right, ButI don't necessarily know that it's in their

(29:12):
best interest to comment on, youknow, and we're seeing that we're seeing
a lot of criticism from the mediain that Jared Bednar has to be the
one who keeps coming out in frontof this. But this is the organization's
approach, right. Some organizations allowmedia to talk to assistant coaches. The

(29:33):
Avalanche do not. They want onepoint to be liaising with the media,
and that is the head coach,and every everything from the organization funnels through
him. Right. Occasionally you getto talk to the GM. Once upon
a time, you even got totalk to Josh Crunky. That hasn't been
the case lately. But they're funnelingthe information through and if you know,

(29:56):
even on a game level, ona on a practice level, every media
conference that Jared Bednar enters, hehas been briefed on here's what the media
was asking in the locker room,here are storylines we think are coming up.
I mean, you can guarantee thatevery day he has been prepped on

(30:17):
what to say if someone asks aboutVal Nichushki. Now, when I worked
for the team, I used tobe involved in that process and I would
sit there and I would think,what's a question out of left field?
That I would try to come upwith to catch you outside of your media
prep, and then we would putthat in the notes, and then I
would read exactly what I typed upon a sheet of paper that came out

(30:37):
of Patrick Wasmouth in the Denver Postthe next day. He was that good
at it. So there's a lotof preparation that goes into this behind the
scenes. But one of them isit's not really our business now. I
would say from a media perspective,if criminality is occurring, which we've been

(30:59):
told over and over and over thatit's not. At least charges haven't been
filed on a criminal basis, andthe reports reporting that's out there says that
there isn't further investigation at this time, right. But if criminality was occurring
and the team was covering it bysaying personal leave, you know, then

(31:22):
there's an issue there. But italso comes back to the representing the organization
to a degree, right, andare they liable for anything if there are
legal proceedings that happen out of thissomehow, some way. The fact that
team personnel were or could have beeninvolved, whether it's a doctor, whether

(31:44):
it's security police hired to be securityon this trip, which we know those
people were involved in this situation.On one level, you know there could
be legal culpability involved. So it'sanother reason to not comment, right,
you just stay quiet and you youlet it play out, and so it's

(32:04):
a it's a tricky situation. Ithink it's also a conversation worth having because
a lot of people seem confused aboutwhy this is a story or should be
a story. I'm curious what yourthoughts are on whether or not the teams
saying this is a personal issue periodshould be good enough for the media and
the fan base or not. Ohthat's sticky, right, I mean,

(32:29):
that's a that's a tough, toughconversation to have. It. Once you
start saying it's personal, there's partof me that says, okay, that
that could be just a cop out. I'm not saying it is, but
it could just be, you know, we're let's just call it personal and
see if we could sweep it underthe rug that way. But there's also
another part of me that wants togive people the benefit of the doubt and
Okay, this is personal. Weshould maybe you know, it's look the

(32:52):
other way for right now, untilwe are given reason not to, right,
I think that's really the way youhave to approach it is based off
acts and based off information that youactually have, and until you have it,
I don't know if you're you knowa lot of these guys are doing
investigative journalism these past week, Right, I've seen Raff get to work in
a way he's never worked as ajournalism journalist covering the Avalanche, and I

(33:16):
don't know at what point that needsto stop, right, how far do
you really dig into this to tryto uncover more things that are just going
to potentially damage the player, damagethe team, not to mention young guys
like us still trying to make ourway through this thorny career, aren't really
looking to shake too many trees andbushes to see what comes out of it,

(33:39):
because suddenly, if you fall outof favor with the Avalanche, We've
seen what happens in that scenario.Right, Well, that's I think that's
an issue, you know, thatcould be discussed at length. But there
is some fanalism. And I don'tmean that in an insulting way, but

(33:59):
that's the I don't want to losemy access. I don't want to rock
the tree. Whatever the organization saysis fine with me. And then there
are the journalists, and those arethe people that are going to say right
or wrong, there's a story andit's newsworthy and it needs to be told
regardless of whether that makes the organizationangry or not. And when we're looking

(34:21):
at the back to the PR responseside of things, right, what did
the Avalanche do that we know ofin the situation? Right, they sheltered
the player. They removed the playerfrom the situation. They are protecting the
player and protecting the organization now bysaying nothing, fans, I get it.
There's a point where you're like,there's so much speculation running rampant now,

(34:46):
it's out of control. They haveno obligation to change that because they
don't really care. You know,they don't care what what is it?
The li lion Wolf doesn't care aboutthe whatever chatter of sheep is something.
I mean, that's kind of thething. But I do think, you

(35:06):
know, outside of this this PRconversation, I do think there are some
interesting considerations here in this story thatneed further elaboration. Right. One is,
Valnetuskin was not at morning Skate andthe media was told he was taking

(35:28):
a maintenance day. Later, thissituation unfolds in public domain and he's whisked
away. So does that mean thatValetus was a wall from morning skate and
they had to go check on himand found this situation unfolding? I mean,
that's a curious part of this thatyou know is part of the story.

(35:52):
And just this situation with this woman, like the implication of her saying
that somebody took her passport and asa bad person likely means that there's human
trafficking involved, and human trafficking hasa sex worker nature to it often,
you know. So there there area lot of moving parts here that are
are just curious. And this playersigned a new eight year contract worth a

(36:16):
lot of money. Do you thinkthis is something that we get a little
bit more information on maybe once theplayoffs are over. They're not trying to
let it be a distraction and they'lllet us know later, or is this
going to be are they just gonnabe silent plead the fifth? What the
rest of them? I think silentsilence? I mean, you saw it
with Simeon Varlamov, and that wasa very ugly situation, and I have

(36:39):
to point out for the people whoforget that no charges were filed against him
and he won. You didn't coverSteve Downey, I didn't. I didn't
work for the team, then areyou sure? Yeah, there were no
charges filed against Varlamov in this domesticabuse situation, and she sued him in

(37:01):
civil court and lost and had topay him money. So you know,
it's a different situation there, butits situation nonetheless where mum was the word
period, and we can expect itto continue to be I guess, but
JJ, Ryan, thanks for hangingout with us today. Great conversation,
pleasure having yet. Thanks guys,So yeah, there you have it.

(37:22):
Our two cents on the situation.Of course, we are on the inside,
so I figured instead of having gueststoday, I will. I really
wanted to pick your brain and getthat side of it because they have a
job to do as well. Theyhave a problem on their hands, and
it's just interesting to take a stepback and see how everybody's handling themselves through

(37:43):
this, including the team, coach, players and the media as well.
Yeah, it's been fascinating to watch. All Right, we'll stick around.
I think we're gonna cut it short. We're not gonna do four segments today.
We're gonna stick with three. Sowe're gonna look around the rest of
the league here in the next portion, and if we finished quick, maybe
we could have some fun and talkabout whatever, or we could just complain

(38:05):
about seven thirty pm starts on aSunday and the rafts. So thanks for
hanging out with us here on theHockey Show at Mile High Sports. Catch
us on all platforms, Catch uslive on Twitch, catch us on YouTube,
podcasts anywhere, JJ Durz, RyanBolder. We'll be right back exactly.

(38:34):
I woke up this morning and Isaid, I to go Colorado Day.
He nailed it. Best producer aboutMile High Sports. Absolutely best producer
in Denver. I'll give it toyou. I will too, I nominate

(38:55):
him. Do we get both?These guys are two kinds. Yeah,
we get three votes. It isgonna be a good day, all in
favors. Say I Hi, Youdidn't say hi? I did? Oh.
Yeah, it's a beautiful day inDenver. It's beautiful Saturday. I
hope everybody's having a good day outthere. But some people aren't having a

(39:17):
good day because they are now eliminatedfrom the NHL Playoffs. Maybe they are
having a good day and they're outgolfing and nursing some of their injuries.
We know, especially on the Jets, there are some pretty bad injuries.
And Jets are the first team eliminatedfrom the playoffs. No surprise there because
they were the ones we were watching. Are they gonna lose this? Are

(39:37):
they gonna let Nashville pass them?Calgary was out of the picture, but
Winnipeg backed their way in the playoffs. We knew that the Islanders also now
eliminated from the playoffs. Same storywith those guys, right. I think
the wild might be the little bitof a surprise here, But I think
the bigger surprise is the way Carolinawas able to handle the Islanders. The

(39:58):
Hurricanes were coming in with a handfulof injuries, very depleted. I mean,
they lost guys too. Of TaraMining broke his hand in the series,
right, and goaltending was still aquestion mark. Right. We saw
Freddy Anderson play his first game ina while yesterday. Just a lot of
moving parts with the Carolina Hurricanes thatled me into this playoffs. Like ah,

(40:20):
I don't believe in them as muchas I do normally last year,
I picked them to be in thefinals. This year I did not.
But I guess my question to you, what was the bigger surprise for you,
Carolina handling the Islanders the way theydid or the Wild maybe not having
the playoff showing that we thought thatthey were going to have coming into the
playoffs. I guess if I haveto pick between those two things, I'm

(40:43):
going to say the Wild. Butit's not the reason that you think,
and it's what Dallas did to them. To me is the most surprising thing
I feel like for a long time, whether it was Rick Bonus as head
coach or Pete Debora as head coachDallas is this like two faced club,
this bipolar club where they are eitheron their game and they're scoring seven goals

(41:05):
against the Avalanche, or they're noton their game and they're not scoring goals.
And so you look at this thisseries started and you're like, man,
these two teams were close in thestandings. They're gonna hate each other
by the end of this. They'repummeling each other in Game one. You
know, there's penalties, there's villains, there's heroes, there's enemies, and
then there were notable absences, KirilCaprizos didn't do much. You know,

(41:30):
credit to Dallas for that too.It's not just him not scoring, right.
You look at Nathan McKinnon in thisseries against Seattle and he has struggled
at times and he has performed attimes, but sometimes when we struggling.
In Game five at home, Imean the first two shots of the game,
he missed the net wide of bothof them. So to some degree,

(41:51):
if Nathan McKinnon finishes the game withno shots and you're like, well,
yeah, some of them he justflat out missed, it's not all
what the team is doing to him, but some of it is. Yeah.
I mean in Game five, hewent into the third period with four
shots on goal and you're like,all right, the Avalanche have a chance
to still take this game over.You're gonna see McKinnon get to work.
He ended the game with four shotson goals zero throughout that third period.

(42:15):
Yes, he's getting he's getting shutdown. Credit to the kracking for the
way they're playing him, and creditto Dallas for the way that they played
Minnesota. But Capris, I've gothurt. Toward the end of the season,
Matt Boldy stepped up. The teamleaned on him heavily. I think
there were some deficiencies there. Yousaw him, you know, the team
made a questionable decision and going toMark Andre Fleury in the middle of the

(42:35):
series didn't go well. They wentto him last night. I mean they
lost, so didn't go well.But it wasn't as poor of a showing
for him. Would you like tosee. I like him as a goalie,
but it does make you wonder onsome level career wise, does he
still have it? But I thinkthe unfortunate thing is that the winner of

(42:57):
Game seven between the Avalanche and theKracking are going to play Alas and Dallas
is resting now. They played itvery physically a season in series, and
now they're waiting while the Avalanche,who are clearly beat up, have to
play one more game and the Kraken, who are also likely beat up,
have to play one more game.That's trouble, you know. To me

(43:20):
though, Like you said, theJets backed into the playoffs. The Islanders
backed into the playoffs to a degree. Those aren't surprising, But what surprised
me about the Jets was that Vegaswas the first team to eliminate anyone from
the postseason, and Vegas went inas the number one seed in the West
and stomped the number eight seed andsaid that's it. You're going home.
Period. There was no messing aroundthere and we are not seeing that hardly

(43:43):
anywhere else in the playoffs. Yeah, well said absolutely. And Winnipeg was
the team that a lot of peoplewere saying, Oh, they're gonna come
out and they're gonna stomp the VegasGolden Knights. They don't know what they're
doing over there in Vegas. Theygot a lot of injuries at Jack Eichel's
not going to perform, but BruceCassidy played Bruce Cassidy style hockey, and
I think Vegas really showed, hey, we're still here. And Rick Bonus

(44:06):
that he was disgusted with his playersafter the series, that yea, they
his top players got outplayed a littlebit of drama. And Winnipeg he said
today he plans on coming back.He's not gonna retire or anything like that,
but large question marks there. Isaw Greg Wischinsky say, you know,
if you if there's a cancer thereand you bring in a new coach

(44:27):
and the cancer is still there,what do you do? Blow it up?
Might be the situation. There couldjust be the style of coaches they're
going after, right, They're goingafter these old school, old mindset coaches.
Enough about the teams that have beeneliminated, Let's look at teams that
might be eliminated today. Three gamestoday all can force a game seven.

(44:51):
Of course, since it's game six, who's going home? Who's going to
Game seven? That's I can't predictthese anymore. I feel like every time
you look at Toronto and you're like, they're gonna put the hammer down and
get out of the first round,they lose. You know, every every
team where you're like, they're gonnaput the hammer down, Boston, they're
gonna put the hammer down and win, they don't. So I don't.

(45:12):
I mean, I think Edmonton LAis very likely to go to Game seven.
Um, I think the Rangers.I this is the hardest one for
me. Often I don't bet onthis game because I'm just like, I
don't know. I thought the Rangerswere firmly in control and they've let New
Jersey back, and now it's acrapshoot. I think the Rangers go to

(45:37):
Game seven and then it's a cointoss, just like I think Seattle and
Colorado is a coin toss. Andthen what's the other one I'm missing here?
Tampa Bay Toronto. I mean,I you think Toronto would come out
with the fire of the Thousand Sonsand get it done, but they just
haven't. They haven't. Now youcan't. Tampa Bay is the team you

(45:58):
can't let hang around, right,Just It's like the Avalanche in any game,
playoffs or not, it's a teamyou can't let hang around. These
guys can erase the deficit quickly.In Tampa. They can shut it down.
You know, they can just dothat thing. They have the experience.
I don't necessarily know that they haveall the talent they need to go
all the way. But could youimagine if they go to a fourth straight

(46:19):
Stanley Cup Final. I mean,we're seeing from the Avalanche firsthand just how
hard that is to do, right, even just to go to two back
to back, I mean, todo it in four times in a row
is insanity. So and you wantto give the Avalanche, I'll give them
just a little bit of a passhere because last year was the latest Stanley
Cup Final in NHL history. Theydid right, But this season also that

(46:43):
season started late, went long.This year started on previous time, and
so it is one of the shortestoff seasons also, right, And like
I've said many times, the morethat we've talked to players, the more
we've discovered how many of them enteredthis season injured. Even Jack Johnson casually
threw out right before the playoffs startedthat he had a surgical procedure, and

(47:05):
the further he gets away from theday of that operation, the better he
feels he's playing right. And you'rejust like man, everybody had surgery,
had an injury. I think oftoday's games, it feels like Edmonton is
the most in control. It couldeasily go to seven. You're right,
but it doesn't seem like LA isputting up the fight I thought they were
going to, and I think that'sbecause their goaltending Corpuslo just hasn't been a

(47:30):
playoff caliber goalie and I thought he'dstep up a lot more. But it
really comes down to an overtime.I think it was Game four that went
into overtime for the Edmonton LA series, and the Kings were I think had
the lead up three nothing lost.It goes to overtime and they lose in

(47:51):
that overtime and suddenly it felt like, in a matter of one hour's time
that the Kings had full control ofthe series to suddenly having zero control of
the series. Right, And youcan see the same in the Avalanche Seattle
series that game four that went toovertime and then a penalty was called.
Here we go, circling right backaround to the rest having an impact on

(48:12):
the game. A penalty was calledSeattle scores, and suddenly it went from
the Avalanche having full control of thatseries to oh my goodness, the Avalanche
or have their backs against the wallin our facing elimination themselves. I mean,
what was it Thursday's media availability,It felt like a funeral around town.
Yeah, I mean it felt likeit was over the importance of one

(48:32):
O T game. Yes, allit is. I kind of disagree.
I think LA has been giving moreof a fight than I expected, just
in this matchup in general. Don'tget a stop. They can't, right,
and that's the trouble we've seen.Almar linus Almark gave up what four
goals in a game like twice allseason, has done three times in this

(48:53):
Boston Florida series. Goaltending is huge. It definitely is. I think the
Avalanche bounced way earlier without Georgia yepin net but La. I mean they
have the defensive system to make itwork, and they have the lethal firepower
to be opportunistic and make it work. Edmonton might not have a vander Kane.

(49:15):
I'm guessing he's going to be agamer and play through whatever's bothering him.
But he is hurt. You know. We saw the detriment that having
a player like Leon dry Sidle hurtfor Edmonton last year in the postseason was
like. And he's a huge partof vander Kane is a huge part of
that offense. So it I meanthat's it's a war of attrition out there

(49:37):
and the healthiest team is going towin. These are gonna be some wild
games tonight, I think absolutely.I believe in momentum in a series.
I know other people don't, thateach game lives in a vacuum, but
I disagree. I think the humanpsychology is something to consider in a situation

(49:57):
like this. But that brings usto Game sevens. We have two of
them going on tomorrow. It's myheavy metal um for Game sevens. I
don't know why I threw that inBut what I like the energy? I
like the energy. Are you excitedfor these Game sevens? I mean,
Boston Florida. That's when could younot be? I mean, yeah,
I think you can be in thesense that you don't think that maybe Florida

(50:20):
has a shot, You don't thinkthe Avalanche are going to play their game.
That's the That's what I would thinkwould be reasons to not be excited
about it, because look what we'veseen from Colorado at home this entire series,
No no answers to what they've beenable to to what the Seattle Cracking
are throwing at them. Yesterday wasthe first time we felt like they actually
were able to play their game.And then Boston, just while it's Game

(50:45):
seven, still seems like they're confident, they know they're the better team and
they're gonna get right through this hiccup. I keep waiting for Boston to put
their skate on the throat of thePanthers, and they do not do it.
What I'm watching for is the bestteam in the NHL this season,
and the best team in NHL historyaccording to statistics, going to lose to

(51:05):
the eight seed Florida Panthers if theydo. Wow, Paul Maurice, Wow,
great job, right for the Avalanchegame? Is Seattle going to score
first for a seventh straight game?Like, if you're an Avalanche fan,
you probably are pretty upset about that, But just as a hockey fan,
it's pretty incredible what they're doing there, right, And is Seattle going to

(51:25):
be able to put it all onthe line and do the thing or not?
Right? We know that the Avalanchewhen they are playing their game,
are the better team. They arethe higher seat. Therefore, this season
has dictated that they are the betterteam. But I don't know. It's
a coin toss and every goal matters, every shift matters, every penalty matters,

(51:45):
and all four of these teams haveto throw everything on the line to
win. And what does that doto the winning team having had to do
that before moving on to the nextround? Right when you go all out
to get into the next round?Is there detriment there? Does that boost
the team? You know? Wefound it, we found our gear,
We had success. We know whatwe need to do when we're going to

(52:07):
carry that mo into the next round. I don't know. Can you imagine
a world where the Avalanche the lightningand the Bruins are all eliminated in the
first round. In the world wherethe Avalanche, Lightning and Bruins, we're
all eliminated in the first round,one team emerged, the Carolina all Right,

(52:28):
I think that's a good place tostop my trailer. Guy, boys,
how was it? That was prettygood? That's good. Yeah,
it's all right. You guy saidit was good, and then all right,
yeah good, not great, man, this guy's a flip flopper.
Good, not great, more thanadequate, more than adequate, that's what
she said. Hit us with theoutro music, Danny, let's start wrapping
this poppy up. Thank you everybodyfor hanging out with it. We're done.

(52:51):
We're gonna let the fourth line carryus out here. Right, it's
time for the second round. Nexttime we're here, we'll be discussing the
second round. Whether or not theAvalanche will still be involved, who knows
what. Seven thirty pm starts tomorrow. Everybody, have some coffee, have
a napp, make sure you're readyto go because those babies are running late.
The game will be on TNT ROOTSports Northwest Altitude TV here in the

(53:13):
Americas. Thank you for hanging outsports TVA Sports in Canada's you done.
We'll see you there in a world. See it's fun for Ryan Bolding,
I'm JJ and Danny Bailey behind theglass. We'll see you later. Every
new beginning come from some other beginnings. To SA