HiT 170: Meet the Man Behind 'What Is a Woman?' (BONUS EPISODE)

Director Justin Folk isn't a household name, but he's made not one but two movies that rocked the zeitgeist. His latest, What Is a Woman?, dominated the conversation for months. Folk shares how he makes movies that rattle the culture ... on his terms.

Episode Transcript

(00:05):
Welcome to the Hollywood in Total podcast, entertainment news and reviews without the bloke
Hollywood narrative. Free speech, freeexpression. Now that's entertainment, and here's
your host. Award winning film criticPersian Total, the band behind the most

(00:29):
controversial film in ages is a mildmattered guy who lives far from Hollywood.
He's director Justin Folk, someone whodoesn't strike you as a rabble rouser at
first glance or second. He stillmade the most talked about documentary in recent
memory for The Daily Wire, Whatdoes a Woman? Hit the Conservative platform
one week ago this week, buteven before the title question was asked,

(00:52):
it stumped more than a few people. Supreme Court Justice Katangi Brown Jackson got
that film's question during the Conference Masionhearings. She flunked the test. I'm
not a biologist, she said,making Justin Folks point in the film's point
as well, better than edny ADcampaign could. That was just weeks before
the film's release. No, you'renot familiar with what is a woman?

(01:15):
Well Daily Ware personality Matt Wallace travelsthe country and beyond to ask that simple
question. Yes, doctors, scientists, professors and more and spoiler alert.
More than a few are stumped.Here's a sample. What is a woman?

(01:36):
Can you tell me that the Woman'smarch? You must have somebody,
please, if one person could tellme what a woman? We ask your
telling what is that? I'm ahusband, I'm a father for I host
a talk show, I give speeches, I write books. I like to
make sense of things. A womanis not anything in particular. There is

(01:59):
not one particular name. It couldbe many things to many people. Some
women have penises, right, somemen have vaginas? Yeah, great question.
Rolling Stone slammed the film as transphobic, and it wasn't alone, but
it actually didn't watch the film beforesaying so. It's pretty much what happened

(02:20):
with film critics. Most of themflat out ignored it, hoping it would
just go away. It didn't.This week, The Delhi Wire put the
movie out on Twitter and its websitefor free. Very briefly. You have
to go behind the paywall. Youhave to be subscribed to see it normally.
But they wanted to celebrate that anniversaryin what the way thought was the
best way possible, and all heckbroke loose. It was like Twitter pre

(02:45):
elon musk where the censors were rulingthe world, and of course free speech
took up backseat. My take,I think art should provoke questions and conversations.
It's meant to challenge the status quoand forced people to really sitter and
reconsider topics in new and provocative ways. That's what art does, and art

(03:06):
shouldn't be banned the folks. Here'ssome of the behind the scenes secrets with
the Hollywood and Total podcast, includingwhat worked about the film the secret to
his success. He also hints ata new project which could be even more
incendiary. Hard to believe, butI wouldn't put anything past Justin Folk at
this point. Not only is hea powerful director, but he also made

(03:28):
No Safe Spaces a few years agowith Adam Carolla and Dennis Kraker. That
film warned that what was happy oncollege campuses, the suppression or free speech,
might just trickle out into the cultureat large. Boy was he right.
Justin Folk has his finger on thepulse. Not everyone likes it,
but he knows what's going on andhe's provocative enough to share those stories.

(03:51):
Here's my conversation with what is awoman director? Justin Folk? Justin thanks
for coming back in the show.Now, What Is a Woman came out
on the Daily Wires platform, andthat means it's not on YouTube, it's
not on Netflix. It's a smallerdistribution. It just is what it is.
But I'm going to argue that it'shad a pretty significant cultural impact,

(04:12):
and I think and I want tosee if you agree and also maybe share
Maybe this is an obvious one,but just share some some examples of how
it altered the conversation, how itcame up in different ways. I can
think of one Supreme Court moment thatcertally jumps to mind, but yeah,
just well let's start there, andhow you saw the culture react to the

(04:33):
film. Well, it's it's beenbeyond my sort of wildest dreams in terms
of of grabbing the attention of cultureand bringing to light this issue that people
really didn't know how to talk aboutit. I guess that's the answer to
your questions. The conversation wasn't reallythere before. You know, people saw

(04:54):
this issue with the gender ideology andit really didn't know how to react to
it. They didn't want to becalled a bigot or you know, a
hate monger or anything else, andso you know, at their places of
work or even if they're dealing withthis at their kids' school or other places
like that. They just didn't knowhow to talk about it, and they
didn't know it didn't feel right tothem in many ways, but they didn't

(05:15):
have a the courage and be sortof the response to this thing. And
so what the film did was wastell a entertaining story that asked a simple
question, and that question really hasbecome a movement. And in the question
itself, what is a woman?It really it really brings to light an
important issue, which is the issueof sort of truth, which is do

(05:41):
we value truth as a society,biological truth, scientific truth? And this
seems to be the issue where it'sall just come to a head over this
gender ideology movement. And so I'mproud of the fact that the film not
just change the conversation, but Ithink in many ways it got the conversation
started, and it gave a lotof people that felt sidelined or I didn't

(06:05):
know what to say about this.I think it gave them a voice in
some regard because they could kind ofpoint back to the film and say,
now you know what I stand for. Protecting kids from surgeries, harmful surgeries
and hormone therapies that are going toaffect them for the rest of their lives.
I stand for protecting women's spaces.I stand for truth in general,

(06:28):
and that's sort of standing against thiskind of post modern relativism that everybody can
have their own truth. And soI think it gave a lot of people
of voices that didn't didn't know howto talk about this issue. Thankfully.
I think it's a great point.I'd also add that it's ironic because we're
living in an age where we havea zillion ways to speak, whether it's
on you know, social media ordifferent platforms or you know, publishing your

(06:50):
own books, and yet we're stillstifled in certain ways. And I agree
this was a way to kind ofpush that conversation forward. Now, I
guess I put this gently. Someof the people who are featured in your
movie don't come off well, andI think that's being as kind as possible.
Do they circle back to you afterthe movie is released and complain or
anything that was there anything like that, or they just stay silent after that.

(07:15):
No, we really haven't heard fromanybody, and and I think,
uh, maybe that's for a coupleof reasons. Um. You know,
first of all, I don't thinkthat any of those people would back away
from what they actually said in thefilm. I don't. They may not
like the film, and they maynot they may not like the overall message
of the film and who was inthe film, who starts in the film,

(07:36):
um, and all this, ButI think I don't I really believe
that the people that are featured inthe film would stand by every word that
they said in the film. Um, this is their ideology, This is
there what they stand for. AndI think for that reason alone, you
know, they're not going to pushback based on what they said. Um.

(07:59):
I just I also to think thatthey wanted it to go away.
I think they I just think thatthey didn't want it to give it any
more attention than it already got.And so maybe that's another reason that we
just haven't heard from them, isUm, they just I don't think they
want to create any extra noise aroundit. Yeah, that would invite more
attention, which is actually a soundstrategy. I think on a certain level,

(08:20):
I can't disagree with that from theirpoint of view. You know,
we touched upon before how this started. The conversation, but where their moments
maybe in pop culture or even politicalAnd obviously the Supreme Court where the news
justice couldn't exactly define your your film'squestion. But there are other examples of
that that you that come to mindthat you're like, oh my gosh,
I can't believe they just mentioned it, or that person mentioned it, or

(08:43):
this came up in this conversation.Well it it has popped up everywhere.
That's the crazy thing. I thinkit's it's become u the thing that people
talk about just this just the questionwhat is a woman? Which is actually
a term, which is actually aquestion that Matt has been asking for a
while. Matt Walsh has been askingon Twitter and in different venues for quite

(09:09):
some time because he knew that thequestion itself kind of held the key to
this thing in terms of debunking what'sgoing on. Um, And and that
question is now sort of everywhere,and it's become the question that you just
see popping up everywhere. And Ithink, you know, it obviously took
a film to to really push itout there. Um. I know,

(09:30):
you know, obviously the Supreme Court, that's quite the stage for it to
play out on and Marsha Blackburn,who asked the question, Um, you
know, credit to her for bringingthat up in such a venue such as
that, But I think I thinkit's a it's an amazing question because as
a society, we're surprised that we'reasking this question to begin with m and

(09:56):
then but it does force you tokind of dig in a little bit deeper.
Why are we asking the question?What the woman? What's stake here?
How do we get here? There'sa lot of um, there's a
lot around that question that people reallyneed to think about. Not stake anything
away from you and your skill.You're a great filmmaker, but I it's
just so intricral to what you've accomplishedthat Matt Walsh approached it in the fashion

(10:20):
he did talk a little bit aboutabout that, how you work together to
kind of get that voice in thestory because he's not screaming, he's not
yelling, he's just very plain spoken. But I think it's the power of
the film is that he retains thatcomposure. I think that's that's the key
to everything. But just from asa storyteller, how did you sync up

(10:43):
on that? Well? I creditMatt for this entirely because I think he
knew that this gender ideology was builtupon a sort of a mess, an
ideological mess of postmodern relativism, thatif you just simply ask questions, it
would fall apart. He knew thatalready, I mean he knew that before

(11:03):
we began. And when he toldme that was the um sort of the
the socratic method technique that he wantedto employ, I just thought that was
that was great because with such acontroversial and crazy topic like transgenderism, me
as a filmmaker, I didn't wantto go out there and make a film

(11:24):
that was just a bomb throwing attackfilm that people could disregard as some sort
of a right wing propaganda. Imean, they were going to do that
anyways. In fact, they havea lot of people that probably haven't seen
the film call it that. ButI thought it was so important and Matt
just from the from the very verybeginning, he knew that would be the

(11:46):
most effective way to take this thingon was to simply go out and ask
questions and and then in the processof working together. This was Matt's first
film that he'd worked on, andso I often would remind him, hey,
listen, you know we don't needto. And every scene, you
know, solve the entire problem.Like we have the length of a ninety

(12:11):
minute film to tell this story,and every interview that we do doesn't have
to like, you know, basicallysum up the whole issue and and and
bring everything to a tidy ending.We can We can do that over the
course of ninety minutes and take ourtime. And so I think that gave
him confidence to go out there andand just know that all he had to
do was just get this information outof people, and you know, it

(12:37):
ended up turned out to be extremelyeffective. I know. It's it's it's
the thing that a lot of peopletalk about with our movie that they really
enjoyed. You know. You hearpeople like Joe Rogan talking about it,
and and uh, that's the thingthat they always come to. That's the
thing that they pulling out first.Was the technique and the just the way
Matt went about it gotcha. Now, the film has had a lot of

(12:58):
critics. I think many many,if not most, probably haven't senior movie,
which is not fair of course,have there been any barbs thrown your
way at that you thought, youknow, that does make sense? Or
I give them credit, or maybeI could have done it differently. I
mean, any has there any beenany criticism that you thought was actually well
founded and thoughtful and something you couldprocess for the future projects. It would

(13:22):
have been interesting if there was.We've gotten a lot of criticism, but
none of it's really been constructive,it's all. It's all just been kind
of more attacked the Messenger type ofcriticism. Um, you know, Matt
Walts is evil and a maniac.Well, but it has nothing to do
with the film itself. Um.I don't know if people can really argue
on the merits to the points thatare being made in the film. And

(13:45):
and I think it's that way becauseof who we put in the film.
We didn't just make this sort ofyou know, a partisan sort of a
one sided thing. Um. There'sa reason we put, for example,
Scott Nugent in the film, whois a you know, a transgender person
who knows these issues backwards and forwards. And I don't know how you would
look at what Scott has to sayand say, well that's wrong. Um.

(14:11):
And uh. And so I thinkwe took great care about who was
in the film, what was actuallybeing said, and the criticism thus far
hasn't been well, they just theysimply got this wrong, and here's the
scientific data to prove that, oror or you know, if you do
it that way, then this Ithink actually what it's done is is um
open people's eyes to the real factsand and and really kind of built more

(14:35):
of a broader coalition of people thatsee the dangers of this. And it's
not just a partisan thing. It'snot just people on the left or the
right. It's it's people that arethinking a little bit more clearly about Okay,
what are the long term effects ofthis on children? For example?
Yeah, and so yeah, SoI'd have to say I haven't heard a
whole lot of constructive criticism. There'sbeen a lot of criticism, but not

(14:58):
necessarily of the active sword looking atyou in your career. Previous film was
No Safe Spaces, which if youhaven't seen, is excellent, and obviously
this too even other projects. That'sthe I feel like you're working on films
where the you know, Matt Walshbecomes the lightning rod, where it's Dennis
Praeger and Adam Crowla taking the heatif it does get heat, and then

(15:20):
you you're able to kind of standback as the director. You don't have
a world famous name as IF yet, which is a good thing, right,
But I was kind of curious,do you feel heat within the industry
where people your colleagues give you heatfor saying why did you do that kind
of movie? Or have you beenable to kind of in a way avoid
some of the more explosive rhetoric justbecause you were behind the scenes, behind

(15:41):
the camera. Yeah, I'd sayI'm pretty fortunate. I get to go
out and do my work, andyou know, with relatively you know,
as an anonymous filmmaker to some degree, I'm not in front of the camera,
so my face isn't out there.I'm purposely not really that active on
social media. UM. I kindof like being that guy. I kind

(16:03):
of like the guy that just takessomebody like a Matt Walsh or Adam Corolla
and elevate their voice. UM.It's it's uh, it's a nice position
to be in, and I hopeto continue to work that way. I
don't need to be that guy infront of the camera. UM. And
it allows me to kind of domy job and you know, obviously the

(16:26):
criticism does come my way eventually.UM, but usually that criticism is distilled
down to things that have to dowith the story itself. Yeah, and
not about not about the main character. I don't have to worry about like
Matt Walsh being criticized that has nothingto do with me. Um. And
although I stand with him and whathe's saying, I don't. I don't

(16:47):
feel a lot of that criticism.Um. He does. Unfortunately, he's
the one that that really gets aUM and and has you know, various
you know, security threats and thingslike that. And uh, thankfully for
me, I I just I keepmy head down and put a you know,
great team together behind the scenes,and we do our work and try
to tell a great story. Youmentioned Matt Walsh, I'm corolla. Are

(17:10):
there other cultural figures that you mayhave nothing on the docket right now,
but you think, gosh, Ilike what he or she has to say.
I wouldn't mind doing a film withthat person and taking on some of
their points or conversations. Anyone cometo mind. Uh, Yeah, I
mean that's a that's a big question. But yeah, there's definitely people that
I really hold in high regard.I had the chance to work with Mike

(17:33):
Rowe a while ago on a shortdocumentary for Preger you called Trading Up,
and it had to do with themthe trade industry, Trade school versus going
to university and working with Mike Rowewas just even though just a short couple
of days, was an incredible experience. The guy is just an American gem

(17:56):
and what he has to say it'sso important for this country right now,
and so um, yeah, I'dlove to work with him again. UM.
There's other people that I have notmet that that I that I admire.
Um, I'm kind of interested inin. Um some of these stories
that you hear from that pop upfrom time to time where somebody mentioned something
about this country that's unique and different, and um like, for example,

(18:18):
I uh not that not that wewould work together, but I found it
intriguing that the music artist Pitbull umwas remarking recently about just America and and
you know, the American dream andhow real that was for him and how
this is such a great country.And I just thought that was fascinating.
I thought that was interesting, andI was like, wow, I wonder
if you know, if a storylike that could be told about somebody coming

(18:42):
here to this country and achieving thesedreams and talking about America, and in
a very different way than the mediais talking about America today. Yeah,
it's been a year, and Iknow you can't go back and tweak your
film unless you're Steven Spielberg and youwant to swap out the guns for a
walkie talk He's like you did withET. But has there be anything in
the last twelve months that you thought, gosh, if I could have explored

(19:03):
that angle, that story that hasjust developed, that would be a great
compliment to What is a Woman?Yeah, that's the That's the challenge with
documentaries, as you eventually have toend them. You have to finish them,
and you know they otherwise they wouldgo on forever and ever and you
would never finish them. And soUm, the last year has been completely
full of I guess content that isrelated to to our film. Um.

(19:29):
Although I just I'm really proud ofthe job we did. I think we
made the right film at the righttime. I think it's aged extremely well.
Um, It's not dated in anyway, and I think it's probably
even more relevant today than it waswhen it came out. Um. I
think obviously you could tweak and andand add to it all day long,
but you have to eventually, youknow, make a film and get it

(19:51):
out there. So I don't Idon't think of I can't really think of
anything right now that that I thinkit's missing, or that I would loved
the stewhorn in there. For somereason. I think it's all there,
and um, you know, Ithink it's um as relevant as it was
when it came out. I wentto art school back in the day,
and one of my professors would tellus to step back from the canvas and

(20:12):
know when when it was when yourwork was done, because you could always,
like you said, noodle it withit forever. So it's a it's
a it's a skill to to acquire, that's for sure. You know you're
working on a new project and Iand I spoke to you recently off off
Mike, and you said, Ican't tell anything about it. I want
to see if anything changed where youcan maybe say a little bit, and
then if not, how in ourdigital asi and the social media and everything

(20:36):
gets out and then there are nosecrets. How do you keep a project
secret in twenty twenty three because obviouslyyou're doing it and you've done it before,
but what can you share about thenext project, if anything, well
not not a whole lot of changesthere and what I can share, I
really can't share it much about theproject itself. And um, it'll be

(20:56):
exciting and it'll be I think culturallyum, big, just just like what
as a woman was big, Um, in terms of being a conversation starter
or a thing that people refer to. Um. The way to keep it
a secret, there's no sure faraway, but you know, keep your
team small and and and and keepthem um, you know, loyal and

(21:21):
and uh professional. Yeah, youknow, keeping their their mouths closed about
what we're up to. But sofar so it's another journey. We're we're
doing a lot of traveling, andum, it's going to be a I
take an interesting and culturally relative film. Excellent. Any kind of time frame
as far as either when we willlearn about it end or when it could
come out, that's that's hard tosay it at this point. I wish

(21:45):
I could give you more hard days. Okay too, but we're right in
the middle production right now. Excellent. Um, it'll be a number of
months. Yeah cool. Well,last question, when it doesn't announce,
everybody will know it so excellent.Well, last question, you know,
given the work you do, giventhe fact you have a peculiar and I
use that in the positive sense.I for stories, storytelling and the culture.

(22:06):
Are there any films or TV showsor documentaries you've seen in the last
year or so that you thought,Gosh, this didn't get a lot of
attention. But it's good, it'sit's it's innovative, it's relevant, it's
it's saying things that need to besaid, but that maybe they're not getting
as much publicity as they should.That you can give a shout out to.
Well, it's a great question.Um. And part of that has

(22:26):
to do with the fact that Ihave very little time content. You're too
busy. I wish I had moretime. I have seen some good stuff
recently, but I like, Iactually like watch a lot of narrative stuff
too. UM. I do likedocumentaries. UM, but I also consider
myself more of a narrative filmmaker.And even though I make documentaries, I

(22:48):
try to tell them in a verynarrative fashion. So I try to watch,
um, some of the latest showsthat are out there, whether it
be a series or film. UM. And uh, you know, I
think, um, you know theall it's quite on the Western Front was
an incredible film, narrative film thatwas completely unique and important. And i
even showed my twelve year old becauseI'm like, you just gotta watch this.

(23:11):
Even though it's very graphic, veryreal, very raw, I thought
that was an incredible movie. Andyou know, it's films like that that
are just artistic achievements to kind ofinspire you and keep you going and make
you kind of shoot for whatever itis you do well. And so yeah,
I thought that film stands out forme. Well, I think for
some people and maybe some filmmakers thatthere your work is having a similar effect

(23:34):
and making them find the inspiration toask the questions and tell the stories that
others aren't. Of course, thefilm is what is a Woman one year
anniversary and as you said, justas pertinent, just as powerful as it
was on its release date last year. And of course you have to see
it on Daily Wire. You canbe become a Daily Wire Plus subscriber.
Check out that and of course lotsof other content too, and Daily Wire

(23:55):
is just exploding right now. Children'sprogramming coming soon, some great movies or
in there, like shut In andTear in the Prairie. So but if
you if you sign up, whatis a Woman is your first choice.
Trust me, you'll enjoy it andyou'll get a lot out of it.
But justin thank you for coming tothe show. I can't wait to hear
about your next project and you'll knowyou'll hear about it here as soon as
the information is leaked. And wehope you all the best and stay safe.

(24:18):
I know that some of the stuffyou're doing is a little bit tricky
and I hate to say that,but just to just be safe out there.
Yeah, thanks Christian, it's greattalk to you as always and appreciate it.