October 14, 2025 • 88 mins
Step into the vibrant world of Sophie Kipner, acclaimed figurative abstract painter and writer, whose bold creativity challenges the boundaries between art and storytelling. In this exclusive interview, Sophie shares her journey from canvas to page—exploring how emotion, intuition, and curiosity shape her artistic process. We talk about how she developed her distinctive style, the intersection of visual art and writing, and what it means to truly see beyond the surface. Whether you’re an artist, writer, or simply a lover of creative expression, this conversation will inspire you to embrace your own imagination and break the rules that hold you back.
🔎 Topics We Cover:
Sophie Kipner is a Los Angeles-based artist and author known for her vibrant figurative abstractions and her unique ability to blend words with visual art. Her work has been exhibited internationally and featured in top publications for its playful yet deeply emotional impact.
📍 Available on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube | Google Podcasts
American figurative abstract painter and writer Sophie Kipner who primarily uses the blind contouring technique. Sophie was born in Santa Monica in 1982 into an artistically musical family; her English mother Lizzie was a singer and dancer, her Australian father Steve, a songwriter, musician and producer, her grandfather, a songwriter and producer, and her brother Harrison, also a songwriter, musician and producer. Sophie however was to take a different route with an early interest in art, particularly sketching and learning portraiture, which would carry her through to her professional career. Her parents emphasized self expression as a learning tool, encouraging her creativity. While attending Viewpoint High School in Calabasas she developed an interest in photography. Sophie was the first member of her family to attend college and she chose The Annenberg School at the University of Southern California to study journalism and public relations, graduating magna cum laude with a BA in 2005. Her earliest exposure to art and artists included visits to galleries in Europe with her mother, which is where the abstract work of Picasso caught her eye and subconsciously imprinted an influence that would later become apparent in her own work. After graduating Sophie spent time working for her aunt at Apogee Electronics where she learned a number of skills that would help her later in her own business. Her love of writing, especially short stories, became an important and relevant aspect of her career. From 2013-15 she worked at The Society Club in London. It was during this time that she introduced sketching games to her dinner parties, which unlocked her love of art again after many years focusing on her writing. After moving back to LA Sophie began showing her work on social media and taking commissions. This eventually led to her decision to become a full time artist and since 2015 she has had her works shown in multiple solo and group gallery exhibitions and sold into commercial and private collections globally, including the Salam Art Collection in Iraq. Her writing was also gaining momentum and in 2017, her first book, The Optimist, a satirical look at the extremity of romantic desperation, was published by Unbound in the UK and later in the US and Canada in 2021. The novel was named a “Best Summer Read” by The Daily Mail and optioned for film and television adaptation. Sophie was also the subject of the Oscar-shortlisted short documentary, “Sophie and The Baron”, which chronicles Sophie’s friendship and artistic collaboration with legendary Rolling Stone Magazine photographer Baron Wolman. The award-winning film, directed by Alexandria Jackson, premiered at SXSW Film Festival and was acquired by Disney as their first original documentary, and is now streaming worldwide on Disney Plus. Sophie lives and works in Santa Monica, CA.
Sophie’s links:
https://www.sophiekipner.com/
https://www.sophiekipner.com/book
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt13084870/
https://www.instagram.com/skipner
Some of Sophie’s favorite female artists:
Paula Rego
Alice Neel
Katherine Bradford
Cristina BanBan
Hilda Palafox
Frida Kahlo
Rob
🔎 Topics We Cover:
- The evolution of Sophie Kipner’s figurative abstract style
- Translating emotion into color, line, and language
- The connection between painting and storytelling
- Creative freedom and the courage to experiment
- Insights for emerging artists and writers
Sophie Kipner is a Los Angeles-based artist and author known for her vibrant figurative abstractions and her unique ability to blend words with visual art. Her work has been exhibited internationally and featured in top publications for its playful yet deeply emotional impact.
📍 Available on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube | Google Podcasts
American figurative abstract painter and writer Sophie Kipner who primarily uses the blind contouring technique. Sophie was born in Santa Monica in 1982 into an artistically musical family; her English mother Lizzie was a singer and dancer, her Australian father Steve, a songwriter, musician and producer, her grandfather, a songwriter and producer, and her brother Harrison, also a songwriter, musician and producer. Sophie however was to take a different route with an early interest in art, particularly sketching and learning portraiture, which would carry her through to her professional career. Her parents emphasized self expression as a learning tool, encouraging her creativity. While attending Viewpoint High School in Calabasas she developed an interest in photography. Sophie was the first member of her family to attend college and she chose The Annenberg School at the University of Southern California to study journalism and public relations, graduating magna cum laude with a BA in 2005. Her earliest exposure to art and artists included visits to galleries in Europe with her mother, which is where the abstract work of Picasso caught her eye and subconsciously imprinted an influence that would later become apparent in her own work. After graduating Sophie spent time working for her aunt at Apogee Electronics where she learned a number of skills that would help her later in her own business. Her love of writing, especially short stories, became an important and relevant aspect of her career. From 2013-15 she worked at The Society Club in London. It was during this time that she introduced sketching games to her dinner parties, which unlocked her love of art again after many years focusing on her writing. After moving back to LA Sophie began showing her work on social media and taking commissions. This eventually led to her decision to become a full time artist and since 2015 she has had her works shown in multiple solo and group gallery exhibitions and sold into commercial and private collections globally, including the Salam Art Collection in Iraq. Her writing was also gaining momentum and in 2017, her first book, The Optimist, a satirical look at the extremity of romantic desperation, was published by Unbound in the UK and later in the US and Canada in 2021. The novel was named a “Best Summer Read” by The Daily Mail and optioned for film and television adaptation. Sophie was also the subject of the Oscar-shortlisted short documentary, “Sophie and The Baron”, which chronicles Sophie’s friendship and artistic collaboration with legendary Rolling Stone Magazine photographer Baron Wolman. The award-winning film, directed by Alexandria Jackson, premiered at SXSW Film Festival and was acquired by Disney as their first original documentary, and is now streaming worldwide on Disney Plus. Sophie lives and works in Santa Monica, CA.
Sophie’s links:
https://www.sophiekipner.com/
https://www.sophiekipner.com/book
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt13084870/
https://www.instagram.com/skipner
Some of Sophie’s favorite female artists:
Paula Rego
Alice Neel
Katherine Bradford
Cristina BanBan
Hilda Palafox
Frida Kahlo
Rob
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, I'm Sophie Kipner and I'm a figurative abstract painter
and writer.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hello, and welcome to Art the podcast where we get
up close and personal as we get to know women
from around the world of visual arts. I'm Chris Stafford
and this is season three, Episode twenty. My guest this
week is the American figurative abstract painter and writer Sophie Kipner,
(00:32):
who primarily uses the blind contouring technique in her artwork.
Sophie was born in Santa Monica in nineteen eighty two
into an artistically musical family. Her English mother, Lizzie, was
a singer and dancer, her Australian father, Steve, a songwriter,
musician and producer, her grandfather a songwriter and producer, and
(00:54):
her brother Harrison, also a songwriter, musician and producer. However,
was to take a different route, with an early interest
in art, particularly sketching and learning portraiture, which would carry
her through to her professional career. Her parents emphasized self
expression as a learning tool, encouraging her creativity. While attending
(01:18):
Viewpoint High School in Calabasas, she developed an interest in photography.
Sophie was the first member of her family to attend college,
and she chose the Annenberg School at the University of
Southern California to study journalism and public relations, graduating magneal
Cum Lauder with a BA in two thousand and five.
(01:40):
Her earliest exposure to art and artists included visits to
galleries in Europe with her mother, which is where the
abstract work of Picasso caught her eye and subconsciously imprinted,
an influence that would later become apparent in her own work.
After graduating, Sophie spent time working for her aunt at
Apogee Electronics, where she learned a number of skills that
(02:03):
would later help her in her own business. Her love
of writing, especially short stories, became an important and relevant
aspect of her career. From twenty thirteen to twenty fifteen,
she worked at the Society Club in London, and it
was during this time that she introduced sketching games to
her dinner parties, which unlocked her love of art again
(02:26):
after many years focusing on her writing. After moving back
to la Sophie began showing her work on social media
and taking commissions. This eventually led to her decision to
become a full time artist, and since twenty fifteen. She
has had her works shown in multiple solo and group
(02:47):
gallery exhibitions and sold into commercial and private collections globally,
including the Salmn Art Collection in Iraq. Her writing was
also gaining momentum, and in twenty seventeen her first book,
The Optimist, a satirical look at the extremity of romantic desperation,
was published by Unbound in the UK and later in
(03:09):
the US and Canada. In twenty twenty one, the novel
was named a best Summer read by The Daily Mail
and optioned for film and television adaptation. Sophie was also
the subject of the Oscar shortlifted short documentary Sophie and
the Baron, which chronicles Sophie's friendship and artistic collaboration with
(03:31):
legendary Rolling Stone magazine photographer Baron Wollman. The award winning film,
directed by Alexandria Jackson, premiered at SX s W Film
Festival and was acquired by Disney as their first original documentary,
and is now streaming worldwide on Disney Plus. Sophie lives
and works in Santa Monica, California. Sophie, Welcome to the podcast.
(03:56):
Thank you for joining me. In podcast land.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Thank you so much for having me. It's my first
podcast experience, though I'm very happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
I love that well. It's an honor then for me
to have you as my guest and making your maiden
voyage into podcast land.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
I love it well. You've made it very exciting and fun.
I'm very happy to join the ranks.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
I appreciate you taking the time to do this. Just
set the scene for Sophie about where you are, because
I know your corner of the world. I've lived out there,
and I'd love you to describe if you would paint
a picture of where you are and in your studio
and the kind of light you have when you're working
and the ambiance you create.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
I love that. That's a great question. So I'm I'm
from from southern from southern California right around here, and
I'm from Topanga Canyon. But right now I live in
Santa Monica. I've lived all around La sort of and
all the different pockets, and I love being in Santa
monicaarticularly this place that I met now. It's a it's
(05:03):
a two bedroom sort of typical Santa Monica bungalow kind
of vibe and one of my one of my bedrooms
is my studio, and I have a big beautiful tree
that is very very old and magical that is outside
the windows, and I feel like it does cast some
(05:25):
you know, shadow and doesn't give me as much light
as I would love, but it has a lot of
you know, protective, beautiful energy, so it's a good trade off.
And different parts of the house have really really beautiful light,
especially morning time late afternoon. I love how the light
(05:46):
sort of sleeeps in. LA's got really beautiful light and
it changes so much in different places. I don't know
if you experienced that when you were here.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Absolutely yes, very much. So we're going to get into
your musical background. So it leads me to ask what
kind of musical atmosphere you like to create in your
studio when you start work each day.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
I think music is a very important integral part of
my practice. I think because I grew up around so
much music, and I feel though alive and like myself
when I have it. Sometimes I almost forget where you know.
(06:31):
Sometimes I'll go into sort of a work mode, and
if I haven't started playing music, I usually usually always
start by putting on music. But when I have moments
without it, and then I put it on. It just
enriches it so much and I feel so much more alive.
And I just think music is so incredible, and I
(06:53):
so my family is all in music, and so it
was just always around. So I think it feel very
natural to have it playing in the background. I I
generally listen to music while I'm while I'm painting, I
do listen to tons of podcasts and audio books and
(07:14):
stories often, but I have noticed that I'm doing that
more when I'm walking or and doing other doing other things,
because sometimes it's hard to track and follow a story
when I find myself, you know, in in that flow
when you're really in your work mode, I you sort
(07:35):
of you know, you're taking in all these things that
are subconsciously, you know, embedding into into your brain as
your as you're working, and so it's hard sometimes to
follow stories. I go in and out of it. It
depends if if I'm working on something that I is
more of a mundane task, you know, like I'm finalizing
(07:56):
something and I don't need to go into that kind
of deep creative zone. Then I can listen to more work,
you know, words and stories and follow them but for
the most part, I have a very extensive playlist that
probably can last for hours now, and I listen to
(08:17):
a very wide variety of music, and I will let
it sort of take me, you know, with it on
these journeys, and it's actually interesting. I wonder sometimes, like
how it affects some of the work that I'm doing,
but I'm sure it does. I'm sure that the feeling
in each and each kind of genre affects the movement
(08:42):
in the pieces, you know, I'm sure of it, whether
I'm aware of it or not, but i think it
does create a special space, like it makes it feel
like you've walked into a room and that's your time.
And I'm constantly adding music to this playlist. And maybe
(09:04):
because my father was a musician and a songwriter and
I was grew up being in the studio and listening
to him repeat songs, camping vocals over and over and
over again, I find a lot of pleasure out of repeating,
you know, listening to a song over and over again.
It sort of becomes trans like to me and helps
(09:25):
me really go into a very focused zone with my painting.
But I'm sure it's really annoying for anyone else, and
you know who who's around who might not be still
listening to stuff over and over again. But I love it.
When I love something, I can listen to it a
million times.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
So does the music set the tone then for the
atmosphere of your painting or does it come the other
way round? Would you start a painting and think, Okay,
this is this is where I am, this is the
vibe today, and this is what I need to listen to.
Which way round is it?
Speaker 1 (10:06):
I think that's a great question, and I'm not always sure.
I imagine I think it probably goes both ways. I
know there are certain songs that make me feel really
good and make me feel really happy and in the
right kind of mindset, but it might not be particularly
(10:27):
influential to that, like certain piece, but a lot of
a lot of the time I think if if it's
something that feels specific to like right now, I've sort
of moved away from doing more musicians, but there was
a time that I was doing a lot of musicians
(10:48):
and portraits and I definitely, I definitely would play that
music to set me in that world, and that was
really helpful. Like I did a triptych also this wasn't
one particular portrait, but it was more of a narrative
scene of a New York City nineties the street scene basically.
(11:12):
And so I was listening to music that was very
specific to that time, and I really do. I think
that it was a perfect example of what you're asking,
where I would play the music to help set the environment.
So I was there, you know. And then other times
when it's less specific to that, I think I go
(11:34):
more with how something feels rather than it being genre specific,
you know.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
And how about your daily routine? Are you a morning
person afternoon person? Or do you discipline yourself? If you
have work to do, then you're going to go in
in the morning and it's going to happen no matter
where your circadian rhythm is.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yes, I think that ideally that I show up every day,
and you know, as I'm sure you know as a
as a you know, as an artist, it's it's you know,
you don't always know where it's going to go or
how successful the day is going to be. But I
know that it's in the effort of just continually showing
(12:19):
up and and then and then putting yourself in that
environment to create something in some days I don't. I
feel like I've said I'm useless. I feel like I'm
completely unproductive all day and then I really get going
at a very annoying hour where it's way too late,
and sometimes and that's been happening, and I don't love
(12:42):
it because I think it's it's good. I wish I
had just a normal sleep schedule sometimes. But I think
ideally I feel great when I wake up and I
and I can start. I start work quite soon after
I've woken up. I feel like I have a lot
(13:04):
of energy in the morning, and I'm anxious, like in
a good way. I'm eager to get going, like I
feel like I've got a lot in me to get
out and I'm and I want to work on these
different projects. And I have so many projects going on
all the time. But but I think, you know, sometimes
(13:25):
the reality is I don't feel like I'm able to
concentrate sometimes until later on. It at odd hours, and
I think sometimes I think maybe it's because of how
quiet it is. If it's very early morning or really
late at night, and there's you know, the rest of
the world is so quiet, so there's none of there's
(13:47):
no sort of fomo or feeling like you should be
out in the world witnessing it and pulling from it.
I feel like it's it's such a special time that
is all your own. But I'm not sure how healthy
that is all the time, you know, to work that way,
but it is. It is hard because I don't wait
(14:09):
for like inspiration to hit. I think you sort of
you just have to you make it happen every day.
You know, you have to make it happen. You can't
like sort of wait for it. But the timing of
it is what's hard.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
I think, are you gentle and patient with yourself then
during those periods if you even if you have to
wait all day to really get into the groove.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
I think I'm a very impatient person, you know, by nature.
I've been trying to be more patient with myself and understanding.
The older I get, I'm the more aware of my
brain I've become. And it's like that wild West, you know,
(14:58):
where it's it's a wild player that I have only
recently started to try and understand. But I know it's
really important to have certain parameters and discipline around it.
So that way, it's like I think Jerry Seinfeld had
a great quote about that about you know, learning it.
It's like a wild stallion, but you have to learn
(15:18):
how to write it because otherwise it's it can take
you all over the place. So it's actually been a
real process of trying to be gentle with myself as
I learn how my brain can be all over the place.
But I know it can be. It's a wonderful thing.
I just need to learn how to make it work
(15:38):
for me. And I think being gentle with myself and
understanding that my process isn't going to be linear. I
just need to have the discipline to keep showing up.
But if I don't get something I used to, I've
been having a it can be really difficult when something
takes time. And you know, as you get better and
as you as you too in your craft, I think
(16:02):
your expectations of yourself get higher and so you never
you feel like you're always, you know, trying to get
to the next level. And I think I've become more,
you know, more of a tough critic on myself as
I've gotten better, because I know I can I can
do better, and that that sort of perfectionist side can
(16:25):
be in the way sometimes of like really true open,
free creativity. But I've been trying to just give myself
a bit of grace with it and like that is
my process. And sometimes things take me a really long
time and they don't understand it, and then on the
other side of it it makes sense. And so sometimes
(16:48):
I have to just you know, talk to myself and
remind myself that that it's you know, it's not it's
not a clear cut thing. It's it's not like some
some careers and jobs. I think it's it's much more
laid out in a like I said, like in a
linear way, and everything the way that I paint and
(17:12):
the style that I've created for myself because is like
this at once this really beautiful thing that I'm so
grateful for, but it's also tricky because it relies so
much on where I'm at and emotion and a lot
of other factors and and I and I think that's
(17:33):
what kind of can create something really fun and unique
and special. But it's it's a tough business model because
because it's hard to regulate or you know, plan ahead with.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Well, you've been a professional artist now for what the
last ten years, so you obviously have the discipline, but
how do you cope with the pressure, say, with commissions.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
I think I'm very grateful for the commissions because it's
been what has allowed me to do this full time
for the for the past, you know, ten years or so.
And and I love the process because it allows me
to meet new people and and yeah, and interact with
(18:21):
people I've I've I've made great friendships from people who
have who have done portraits for and done commissioned work
for and and I think it's such a beautiful way
of connecting with people. And but you know, inherently there
is pressure with it because when you're doing a portrait
(18:43):
for somebody, you know, you you want it to be great,
every single piece. I feel like I want to I
give everything in me too, and I want it to
be as good as I possibly can make it. And
you know, and and I think a lot of people
who are commissioning me know that my style is very
abstract and sometimes you know, maybe I'm getting into a
(19:07):
whole nother question here, but you know, it's it opens up.
You know. What's interesting about for me, what keeps me
interested is the fact that of sort of my approach
to each portrait keeps it really exciting and fresh, but
I never really know the outcome. And sometimes you know,
(19:30):
the way that you see somebody is that they know
that obviously they're coming to me, not for a realistic portrait,
so they know sort of what they're signing up for.
But I think it's always different when you see how
someone sees you, and and even with self portraits too,
how you see yourself. I mean, it is an interesting thing,
(19:51):
and I want to make sure that everyone's really happy
with how the portraits come out, because you want it
to be on their wall and for it to be
something that they look at and it brings them joy
and captures them in a way that is very specific
to them. And no matter how abstract it is, no
matter how wild, if the eyes are, you know, on
(20:13):
their forehead and all these different things, but it has
to still feel like them. And I think that that
is it is an inherent pressure with this kind of portraiture,
because it has to feel like them, even if it
doesn't look exactly like them, And then you want everyone
to be happy. And that's why sometimes it can take
(20:36):
a while because it is your own vision. But there's
a little bit of sort of back and forth and
collaboration that can happen at the very end where you know,
I sort of do what I feel is them from
not knowing them, you know, based on a photo or
talking with them, and it's my version of them. But
(20:59):
you know, when you know you want them to be happy,
I want to open it up to little bits of
like if there's anything that they don't love, then you
have to you know, sort of tweak little things afterwards.
And it can be difficult because since I'm drawing from
such an abstract place, changing one little thing can change
(21:22):
the whole the whole thing, you know, it's not just
like when it's so precise and measured. I think you
can probably fix an area very quickly, but sometimes when
the whole thing is off, changing one little thing can
completely make the person almost disappear in the portrait. So
(21:43):
it can I think it's uh. Commissioned work in itself
can be difficult because you're trying to create from a
pure place of artistry and creativity from yourself. But then
also you do have to take into account what your
collector or client wants, you know, and what makes them happy,
(22:05):
and so I think there's negotiation there. But it's been
a really special process for me, you know, and learning
about myself and how to make this work. You know,
I think it's been really interesting, but I'm really grateful
for it. But it can be really tough.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
When you're clearly a perfectionist. So are you want to
easily follow your instincts, your intuition in important moments just
with your art? But in general?
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Do I follow my instincts? Yes? I feel like, well,
what's interesting about this style because I use sort of
blind contouring as my initial approach to the canvas, and
I can go back with you about how that started.
But I think I was quite I've always been, you know,
(23:04):
sort of intuitive and sensitive and emotional about things. But
I don't think I connected like this to myself and
was able to access that level of instinct and gut
feeling until I started doing this style. And so it's
(23:26):
been such a great way for me to, yeah, to
really like fine tune my sense of self and have
that strength and conviction and knowing what feels right. And
it's you know, part of the maddening process is like
if I'm going on instinct, like I sometimes don't know
(23:48):
when I'm going to feel it, but when something is done,
like when I feel like something is finished, I just
know it. It just happens, and I have no idea
how long that will take. And sometimes it's a agonizing
amount of time, and then sometimes they get it right away,
and I just I it's it's impossible to tell someone
how long something will take it because it's it's so
(24:10):
each one is so specific. But I have a very
clear feeling when it's finished, and that is such a joy,
that feeling. And when I feel like I've captured someone,
it's a high, you know, And I think that fuels
me and and I sort of ride that wave that
(24:31):
that I get on and and it's chasing, it's constantly
chasing those those waves, and you know, and I feel
like so with blank contering, I'm I don't look at
the canvas for that initial line, so I only look
at the subject and not and not you know, I
don't look at the canvas, so I it's one continuous
(24:54):
line and I pretty much always start at the same place,
and I kind of have a similar approach. Obviously every
time it comes out differently, but it gives me the
chance to feel what I feel like that subject, like
how that subject feels to me as opposed to if
I were looking, I'd be taking into account how that
(25:17):
person might want to be portrayed. You know, Intellectually your
brain gets in the way and it tells you how
you feel like they would want to be seen as
opposed to how I feel it. And so having like
forcing myself to approach a blank canvas this way gives
me this freedom and it's so exciting also, which is
(25:39):
what can be difficult when you can't nail it for
a while. But I think it's given me the chance
to trust my gut that most of the time, when
my head gets involved, it's you know, that's when it
gets tricky for me. I think everything in my life
started getting better. It's been like this really beautiful less
(26:00):
and that I things are better for me when I
get out of my own way. And of course your
brain has to come in and and edit and clean
up and make sense of what you've what you've created,
because again it can't just be like this is how
I feel. Here you go, there's a portrait like it
has to it has to capture them, it has to
(26:21):
make sense, and that that fine tuning where you've taken
it from the sketch to a final piece that that
can you know that that's when your your head gets involved.
But that initial feeling I think is so connected to
my gut, and it's really strengthened that, and so I
(26:44):
I feel like it's affected a lot of other aspects
of my life. You know. It's kind of taught me
that lesson, you know, that just to sort of be
feeling forward and and to not overthink things. I used
to be a massive thinker. I'm not saying I'm not now,
but I used to be much more of a warrier
(27:05):
and sow in my head and always thinking about how,
you know, what other people are thinking. And I think
becoming an artist in this way and in using method
the methods that I do, especially the start of a piece,
has helped me get away from that, because you know,
(27:27):
it keeps that that kind of mentality. For me particularly,
it just keeps me too rigid. You know, If I'm
constantly too worried about everything, how can I feel free
to be creative? So it's been like the antidote for
for you know, for what I've always needed. I didn't
realize until I've found this style, but I really see
(27:50):
how it applies with everything. Probably you know, all sorts
of relationships, how I look at new projects, and even
with my writing, which is also a big part of
my life, but my main focus is art. But I
feel like it's in a similar way with how blind
countering is that is allowing you to access this other
(28:14):
part of you that can be more true and more
authentic because again, your self judging internal editor has been
kicked out as the room for a while. That's also
the same way that I had more clarity and success
with my voice as a writer, because with a sort
(28:34):
of that sort of automated writing, you know, with this
free writing, just free association. So anything that helps me
just like gives myself permission to freely express without the
confines of what it should be and the judgment that
(28:57):
will come later. I think I've found to be the
only way I've had any success, you know, and it's
just a good life lesson.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Would you say that art chose you or you chose art?
Speaker 1 (29:11):
I definitely feel that the art shows me, and I've
always been someone who's loved art. I think I've always
been off on my own planet, you know, in my
head and as a kid had a vivid imagination and
(29:32):
I didn't ever know that I would go into this
as a career. I don't know if you can anticipate that.
I had a beautiful example around me of a lot
of people who had made it being creative, and I
think that's so special, and I know how rare that is,
because you know, I think most of the time you're
(29:54):
the black sheep in a family when you do the
creative thing. But you know, I would have been the
black sheep, you know, had I tried a more corporate route,
you know, and I've tried little bits of that, and
I just knew. I think my family was waiting for
me to sort of come around and realize that that
that that being an artist in whatever form that is.
(30:16):
You know, for a while it was writing focus, but
that that is definitely you know, who I am. And
I had had to almost explore other things because I thought, well,
you know, I don't know how to make it or
how how will I do it? But then I started
embracing it. And you know, I'd always done little art
(30:37):
shows here and there, and always always did all my
extra classes and extracurricular electives and things like that. I
would always fill with art related things. A lot of
photography in high school, and but I and I studied
journalism in college but then used all my ex to
(31:00):
classes that I had. You know, my electives were always
art focused, and so I think it was always there.
But I and I had these people around me, like
I said, growing up, where I saw people with my
own eyes that were doing what they loved. So it
felt on one hand very natural and like possible, but
(31:23):
mostly from it was music related. I didn't have anyone
around me who was an artist, a visual artist, you know.
They were all sort of musicians. But I knew how
that was a tough world. But I knew I saw
it being possible, and you know, and that can be
tricky because when you're around people have been very successful
(31:45):
with it, it makes it feel like it's very accessible
and that anyone can do it. Not anyone can do it,
But I mean, it doesn't feel like this crazy thing.
It was something that was natural and U and uh,
you know, no one could help me with math, I
would joke, you know, growing up, because like no one
(32:07):
around me had any of those skill sets. But but
I but I also think that, you know, so in
the same way, because it was so music focused, being
a writer or a visual artist still felt like, well,
you've got to find your own way with that, because
we don't know how to do it. But I just
(32:30):
I knew that being creative, and my dad and my
family was always very encouraging of of of following that.
You know, you follow your passion, you follow what you
are meant to do, and and how you perceive the
world and make and how you make sense of it.
And so I was always very encouraged to do it.
(32:51):
And then and so and then I and then I kept,
you know, whenever I'd find myself in a block or
not sure where I would go. I do feel like
the art found me in the sense that it all
happened very organically, you know. I didn't think I want
to be an artist and just figure out how to
make it happen. I think I kept finding myself stuck.
(33:15):
I've had a million different jobs, which I'm sure is common,
I know for a creative person finding her way into
the world. And I've always been very attracted and interested
in people, and I'm curious, and I have had that
(33:36):
curiosity throughout my whole life. And and I love the
idea of having all these different have had these different
jobs because in a way, it would introduce me to
little tiny insights into different pockets of the world and
different groups of people and yeah, yeah, yeah careers and yeah,
(33:57):
worlds that I would otherwise not knowing thing about because
because I was so surrounded by music people specifically, that
all these other worlds were fascinating to me. But and
I do feel like I've pulled from lots of different
things I've learned in these in these different random jobs
(34:18):
that I've had, and I can see now in retrospect,
you know, how it all links together. But you know,
at the time you have you have no idea, but
I really did. I I found that the art kept
coming coming to me, you know, and not not just
that I was following where the doors were open. You know,
(34:40):
they say, like just you know, you you you keep
walking through where the open doors. So that was that
was sort of happening. But it wasn't planned out, you know.
I think I think it was like an inevitable thing
that I took a while getting to realizing, but that
(35:01):
the art and me embracing that just kept saving me,
you know, it kept pulling me back on track.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Let's go back to your childhood now, when you were
born in nineteen eighty two in Santa Monica, California. So
you are a California girl through and through, and as
you said, your family very musical. Your mother, Lizzie was
a dancer and singer, your dad, Steve, a songwriter, producer, musician,
and also your brother Harrison, a musician and songwriter. Was
(35:31):
it deliberate that you avoided that route you wanted to
be different? What were your the subjects of choice when
you were a child.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Well, I think, as far as you know, the music side,
I'm also my grandfather dad, my dad's father was a
songwriter and producer as well, and so I really had
it all around me and a lot of sort of
(36:03):
encouragement to explore that. But I think the writing aspect
because I was I'm not a good I'm not a musician.
I am the worst singer in history. I mean, I'm
so bad. I don't even sing to myself, you know, no, no, terrible, terrible,
I'm appalling. And what's interesting is like my dad actually
(36:27):
thinks that it's impossible because he's a singer, my mom
is a singer, my brother is a singer, and he's
like he thinks I must be faking it. That I'm
this bad. He's like, how is it possible that you
come from our family and you're this terrible? And it's
like I'm town deaf. But the truth is is that
inside I think I have a good ear, like I
(36:48):
know what it's meant to sound like, and I love
I love you know, I have written by all of
that I feel like inside of me, But it's how
it comes out. It just comes out completely different. Then
then I know it's like something. It just it just
doesn't come out of me in the way that I
know it's supposed to sound. And I have no idea
(37:09):
how people do it. I have so much respect for
musicians and how they how they remember the songs all
the time. I mean, it's incredible. But you know, the
songwriting aspect, I think obviously short form stories and so
that's like a through line in our family where it's
the storytelling aspect that for me it shows up in
(37:34):
story and in painting, and then for everybody else it's
it's in it's in song form.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Did you learn a musical instrument, Sophie.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
I my mom tried really hard to get me to
do piano, and I did a little bit of guitar.
But you know, I I I'm just yeah, just do it.
I feel like in my mind sometimes I'll hit a
few things that sounds really good and how a lot
of feeling. But I'm terrible and terrible.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
What were your subjects at school though, that you enjoyed
doing and also did as a hobby, and tell us
a little bit about more about the Little Sophie growing
up then that you were developing your own pathway clearly
from an early age. If it wasn't to be music, Yeah,
was it that was amusing you when you were young?
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Well, I think I would do I mean I think
I had a very rich fantasy life. You know, I
would create. I remember when I was younger with my
best friend, we would create all these worlds all the
time and it was really funny. And I know a
lot of kids do that, but we would like almost
(38:48):
you know, set up set up shop and set up
you know, almost like fake theater shows and do these
weird things. Or we would take over parst of the
living room. But instead of it being like most kids
where they do a performance for you, I feel like
my friend and I would would get all the you know,
(39:09):
get everything set up, make everybody stuck what they were
doing to come and we'd be like, the show's sold out.
It was like this really funny thing because it was
just you know, whoever's home, and of course it's not
sold out, or it's like the restaurant getting it all set,
you know, set up, and like come come to our
little restaurant. As little kids and my parents would remember
they'd come and we'd be like, oh, we're all we're
(39:31):
all busy for the night. You know, there's no room
available in this fantasy imaginary. Like so we had like
a sold out show and a fully booked restaurant, but
we were never actually doing those things. It was like
always just like this setup. Like I remember even playing.
I don't think I was much of a Barbie kid
(39:52):
or anything like that, but I would always love like
the setup of it, and then I would sort of
I feel like I could imagine that world and then
you're onto the next thing. So it was less about
even doing it. And that's probably an impatient quality of
mind too from an early age, but I was we
were constantly creating these little worlds, and I think you know,
(40:17):
I went into I was drawing. I think I forgot
that I used to draw, definitely, not I wasn't great.
It wasn't like my parents looked and thought, Wow, she's
going to be an artist. I doubt it. I doubt
that they were thinking that my dad is a pretty
good drawer too, he was going to go into drawing,
probably if he wasn't a musician. But you know, I
(40:40):
think that wasn't even that encouraged. It was sort of like,
you know, they gave me the space to do all
of it. But it wasn't like I don't remember anyone saying, oh,
you're good at you know, this is what you should do.
You're good at it. They were just very encouraging of like,
just be creative like my dad, because I asked them
(41:01):
not too long ago, was there a time that you
remember that I was, you know, painting or doing more
of that than usual. And my dad reminded me that
in my room growing up, I would paint all the
cabinet doors, and I would I would, but I would,
you know, integrate lines from books that I loved, and
(41:23):
it was you know, you know, it wasn't just painting,
it was all sorts of stuff. And so I think
I was constantly drawing all of my room, and my
parents allowed me to do that, which I think in
retrospect is really cool, like having your room be your
early canvases, all the walls and stuff. And for a while,
(41:48):
I would I would do that, and I wish I
had pictures of it, because I would. I think I
would even you know, paint over it and start new,
start new kind of murals all the time in the room,
but a lot of like mixed mixed media stuff and
again like yeah, pulling in quotes and different different things
like that. But I loved it. And then I remember
(42:10):
doing photography a lot in high school, not so much drawing.
And then towards the end of high school, I knew
I was going to go into journalism or trying to
be you know, more of the writing side. But I
did a little short summer sort of figurative figure drawing
(42:31):
class at otis. You know, even before like I always
thought I loved it. I knew I loved it, but
I didn't think that that's what I would do as
a career, so I kept doing them as sort of
side beside things. But you know, now in retrospect, I
see I was constantly wanting to do it, and wanting
to draw and just thinking that it was something I
(42:53):
would do on the side as I was trying to
develop my writing. But I see how it all sort
of came together her, you know, like even in new
cities I would live in in my twenties, I would
always do like little figure drawing classes in different cities,
in different places.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
Did your parents take you to museums and galleries when
you were young?
Speaker 1 (43:20):
I think a little bit. You know, we so my
mom is English and my dad's Australian and and I,
you know, grew up here. But we did a lot
of traveling when I was younger, and we would go
to England a lot. And I do I do feel
like we we probably did a lot of that, and
(43:42):
I don't I don't remember that so much. I I
think there was a lot of emphasis on less on
my mom. My mom's really interested in that, Like she
would have been the one to take me to museums,
and I remember doing a bit of that with her.
And but but I think my dad and it was
(44:04):
a lot of encouragement of just learning how to express
yourself rather than necessarily what's obviously very important, which is
you know, the education around it and the world around it,
but they were I was the first person to go
to college in my family line, and and so I
(44:26):
think it was, you know, you fine tune your your craft,
and you you've got to know about about Obviously other
other people who have who have, like you know, are
massively influential in the world that you want to be
a part of, and you have to learn from them.
But I kind of feel like, honestly, I was probably
(44:47):
more encouraged to just explore that within myself rather than
studying too much of other people. I think sometimes you know,
over education and overexposure can can kind of I think,
I think it's obviously very important to do, but I
(45:09):
also can see that it can be intimidating and discouraging,
and when things are so when there's so much to learn,
and like you know, with certain art school and different things,
you know, you can almost learn so much that you
realize it can be intimidating, and then it can make
you feel like you don't even want to start it
(45:29):
start at all, and you don't even know what your
voice is because because it has to be. I think
sometimes if you if you think too much about all
these things and trying to be like these greats before you.
It can it can stop you from feeling free to
figure out what your style and what your voice is,
(45:51):
even though I know it's important.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Did any of them have appeal to you though? Was
there anyone that you would particularly drawn to as you
your artistic taste was developing.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
I think every time we'd go to a museum, I
was always drawn, like across the room to Picasso. I
loved Pacassa so much, and even before I would know
up close what I was looking at, I just constantly was,
you know, drawn to his work. And I can see
(46:24):
now how that's influenced my style without even you know,
I wasn't actively trying to be abstracted in those ways,
but I was always so so drawn to his work.
And I remember being in Europe with my family and
whenever we would go to places I would I would
(46:45):
be very drawn, yeah, to his to his staff, even
when I didn't even know it was going to be
in the room, you know, just from far off. So
there was something about that that I was very very
attracted to and inspired.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
When we did you become aware of Free de Carlo
and her work.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
I think, you know, I mean, I mean, there's the
the amount that we all know through just culturally, you know,
being being aware of of of her and her journey.
I think that's like she's such a an influential female,
like one of the most influential female artists, and I
(47:31):
think I was always aware of her. But and I
found her story very interesting, her her her love story,
and it's like her relationship with Diego Vera and all
of that, Like, you know, I found all of that
really interesting and sort of what happens with the woman
(47:55):
in those relationships, you know, when the man is the
the artist, and then she's building up her her artistry,
you know, in in that space with it, and and
how they both kind of worked together and were inspiring
each other. And I found I remember feeling very interested
(48:18):
in in in her journey, you know, and how how
she managed to have a like I don't even know
how the love relationship and that personal side of it.
I'm not sure why that was so interesting to me,
but maybe I wondered, like how an artist is able
(48:40):
like her, you know, a female artist being in relationship
and and how does how does that? How does that work?
You know? And she she was able like the and
and yeah, just her process. I always I found her
very inspiring, I think, I mean, I I imagine in my
(49:01):
twenties I became more and more interested in her.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
Who would you say, then, has had the most profound
impact on your life as an artist and a woman.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
Well, I really love you know, some of the female artists,
like I realized, they're all very you know, figurative artists.
And you know, I love well Paula Rico. I really
was so drawn too. I remember seeing that painting that
(49:35):
she did the dance, and I was so I was
so drawn in to the faces and the expression and
the movement that she kept, you know, she would capture
in her work, and it was it was so endlessly
fascinating to me. I feel like I could stare at
(49:57):
that painting for a really long time and I really
I was. I was. You know, when something really moves you,
you know, you really feel it. And I certain artists
like that. I love Alice Neil, and you know, there
are some contemporary artists like Christina Bandband, who I love
(50:19):
so much. I think it's very interesting how there's a
lot of similarities between these artists. A lot of them
are have a lot of movement in their work, and
I wonder if that's because of that music side in
me or love of music around me perfeally that has
(50:40):
been embedded into you know, what I'm drawn to and
and I can, you know, because I can see it
and it's all like it it's beautiful, but it's the
celebration of bodies and and uh and like sort of
claiming that and especially on big space, on big canvases,
And I think it's I feel like I'm really drawn.
(51:04):
I'm drawn to that kind of work and art and
female artists who I appreciate lots of different styles, but
particularly female artists drawing women. I'm very drawn too, And
I keep going back to it.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
Has that shaped your idea of feminism then? The art
which came first for you as a young woman?
Speaker 1 (51:30):
Oh that's a great question. You mean, like has the
seeing like witnessing females claiming that aspect of themselves, Like
did that help me in understanding like what it is
(51:51):
to be a woman and fighting for.
Speaker 2 (51:54):
That and shaping your own values as an artist then?
And how that conveyed to your canvas?
Speaker 1 (52:02):
Yeah, I I really feel like I feel like I
can I think there's a celebration there that like hasn't
obviously historically been there, and that women witnessing and being
inspired by some of these incredible women who have gone
(52:26):
out and and and taken charge in in like in
their in their own expression of being a woman and
and how they see things. I think it's it's it's
definitely inspired me too to feel comfortable and you know,
(52:46):
and in what I and and how I'm seeing the
world and my part in it, you know. And I
and I think the more because it's one thing for
for other artists, like if it's the male's version of
a woman, it's still like there it's through their you know,
(53:09):
through their eyes, or it's still like you're you're being
looked at, like how women are are observed, you know,
in society and it's like all the eyes are on you.
But being able to see the world through these like
incredible women's eyes, you know, it's like we're it's our
(53:32):
own it's you know, you're witnessing like a woman see
herself as opposed to how the world sees a woman
and men see women, you know, And it's a very
empowering and important viewpoint. And I feel like especially and
(53:55):
I don't know if consciously like the fact that it's
all these women's bodies that I'm so drawn to the
voluptuousness of them, and all the different shapes and the
inclusivity of it, of all the different colors and shapes
and sizes and and all these different ways that bodies
(54:15):
are beautiful. I think I'm sure that plays into my
own my own way of wanting to see myself, you know,
and and how the world sees me, you know, and
and us as women. And yeah, I think it's it's
changing the way, you know, like some idealized version of
(54:38):
a woman versus like how beautiful and incredible, like all
these true versions of women are, you know what I
mean that aren't usually captured. I mean, I suppose throughout
history there's been a lot of emphasis on the voluptuous woman,
but it's it's different when women are being and capturing
(55:04):
themselves and the women around them versus, you know it
versus like some idealized version of a woman. You know.
Speaker 2 (55:14):
Yeah, it's the male gaze thing again, isn't it. It's
not so much a sexual message, is a message of
this is how I feel as a woman, and this
is how I want women to be portrayed. And you
hope that has an emotional impact on the viewer too.
Speaker 1 (55:32):
Yes, yes, I think so, And I think that's why
it's so important, because having people witness that perspective, you know,
through this art form, then they're able to you know,
that's how these like sort of inclusive conversations start happening
more and more, you know, because you're normalizing things and
(55:55):
putting them out there into the conversation that you know,
that's how things start changing.
Speaker 2 (56:02):
Right well, speaking of the emotional impact that art has
on the viewer, I'm wondering what you would like people
to understand about your work. What is your message to them,
even if it's not in writing, it's within your art.
Do you think people have an understanding of you when
(56:23):
they come away from looking at your paintings in a
gallery or.
Speaker 1 (56:28):
Yeah, it's a great question. Actually, someone sort of side note,
but sort of related a friend of mine who has
a piece of mine as a collector too. But he
was recently telling me at this art event where I
was showing some pieces. He was telling other people, almost
introducing them to me and saying, she's always in her
(56:52):
in her work, and I hadn't seen it like that.
It's interesting from his perspective, he feels like there's something
in the eyes. Obviously it doesn't they don't, you know,
it's all these other people. But he said, there's so
much a part of you in all of these in
all of your work. And I was thinking about that
(57:14):
a lot. And I, you know, I think I really
love imperfect things. I love the abstraction. But I feel
like with everything, you know, I'm drawn to I'm drawn
to that across the board, you know, in lots of
different form. But I've always been interested in that. And
(57:36):
I even had a short little stint where I were
in my twenties where I worked like as a shop
girl in it in the in a gems with a
gemstone dealer in New York City in the Diamond District.
And I was in a diamond building and we were
the only little shop basically, and it was a wholesale thing,
(57:57):
so it wasn't for anyone walking by. It was designers,
but it was gems only. And I had the most
incredible mentor who is a painter, and I'm still really
good friends with him, and he was my boss, and
he was the head of the Gemstone Association, and and
and his taste it was this arbitrary taste because you
(58:20):
get when you know gems like you're It was his
idea of what was valuable, which was so different from diamonds,
because diamonds, obviously there's a whole like sort of market
thing with holding and creating value and scarcity and all
that kind of stuff, and that's that's a separate issue.
But they also have it being you know, it's like rated,
(58:44):
and they have all this the classes and the cut
and everything, and you can sort of determine the value
of a diamond very mathematically, whereas a gemstone. What I
loved about it and I felt like it's really applies
to how I look at a lot of things in life,
where where the things that would devalue it, the flaws
(59:09):
in a gemstone, which are like these called inclusions, can
make it more valuable rather than being considered a flaw.
And I and I loved that so much just as
a philosophy and how to look at life. And and
I do feel like maybe my abstract, my abstraction of
certain s features on certain people, even though I'm not
(59:31):
trying to make anything exaggerated, but I like, I love
I love pronounced features, I love interesting faces. And I
love I love quirky details about people. And I think
sometimes in my work I will accidentally or you know,
(59:52):
subconsciously exaggerate features that I'm really drawn to and compelled by.
And and you know, and sometimes I can be like
in not in a cartoonish way, you know, I feel
like it. It abstracts it, but in order, but it
kind of makes it all really beautiful and interesting to me.
(01:00:13):
And and I think it accentuates parts of them that
maybe if they didn't like, or they might look at
as a feature that they're insecure about because in society
we're supposed to, you know, look a certain way. I
think it's I hope, I hope that the takeaway is
that it's celebrating these different aspects. And you know, and
(01:00:36):
I pick up on a lot of a lot of
different things by not looking for that initial line that
I wouldn't pick up on if I were looking, because again,
my head would be in the way. But I think
it's much more intuitive and emotional, and you know, and
and and I think, yeah, it feels more emotion that
the work ends up feeling more emotional in the end,
(01:01:00):
and and I and I and I like that celebration
of oddness, you know, because I want to live in
that world where everything's a bit wacky but fun, and
there's movement and the you know, you know, where the
where the perfect isn't the only celebrated thing, you know.
Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
You mentioned that you had done a lot of different
jobs along the way once you graduated from Annenberg School
at the University of Southern California. That was with a
bachelor's degree. What was that It was that in the
journalism that you mentioned.
Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
Yes, yes, that was in the school of It was
Annenberg School of Journalism and Communication, and I did pr
and I I was also like a research assistant, researching
corporate corporate reputation data. It was for one of my
(01:01:59):
profess and it was that was a completely interesting, different world.
But I really enjoyed that.
Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
So from there then, what did you do after school?
And did you have any idea where you were going,
what your direction might be or was it just a
matter of getting a job and then seeing what happens
before you actually found your vocation in art?
Speaker 1 (01:02:22):
Well, I worked my aunt, I call her my aunt.
She's you know, basically, but both my children, both my
parents are only children, so I have a lot of
aunts and uncles that who are as family as I'll
ever have, and one of them, she's an incredible woman
(01:02:46):
who owns a very successful pro audio company, and she's married,
you know, to a music engineer. And there are people
that might she's known me since I was a baby
and just born, and so she she gave me a
great job out of college and in the marketing department.
(01:03:07):
And I was doing sort of artists relations and marketing
for this pro audio company. So it was a taste
into a more corporate world, you know. It was a
it was definitely like a normal job in that sense,
probably less less corporate than most corporate jobs, you know,
because it was still it was like a you know,
(01:03:30):
it was it's a it's a great company, big company,
but but still sort of you know, female run and
and still you know, small enough where it wasn't like
a traditional big corporate, corporate job. But I really loved
working there, and I just went to celebrate big milestone
(01:03:51):
for them as a as a company. And and I'm
still friends with everybody that I used to work with,
and I'm really close. So that's it is called Apage Electronics,
and I'm still you know, still like my family. But
I think she, you know, she was wonderful giving me
a great job out of college, and and and I
(01:04:13):
and again, I loved it, and I loved playing like
almost house in this role that was so different, you know,
from my family. Even though it was music related, it
was still you know, no one in my in my
family had ever had a corporate ish job. Even so,
so it was it was fun for me to feel
(01:04:34):
like I was almost rebelling, like I was saying earlier
against my family by doing more of a job like that,
even though it was it was, you know, not a
typical sort of rigid corporate kind of you know, it's
not like a banking job or something like that. But
I still was around music all the time, and and
(01:04:56):
I had a great time there, and I learned a lot.
But I think I always knew that my brain wasn't
meant for that kind of environment. I think, I you know,
I'm terrible at prioritizing tasks, and you know, and and
and I think I think it just became clear over
(01:05:17):
time that that I wanted to be to be writing
and and pursuing other things. And I was focused on
writing at the time, so I'd done that for a
couple of years and very grateful for it because it
did give me a lot of structure and understanding of
of things that you know, business wise that have to
(01:05:38):
are still part no matter how creative your job is,
that's all part of running a business. And you know,
now I'm running my own little business.
Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
What kind of writing was it.
Speaker 1 (01:05:50):
I was doing. I was doing well. I did like
I would sort of look after kids and then I
would do short story stuff, but I would get paid
also doing copywriting because I in school. I feel like
in college I was doing a bit of that on
the side too, and so I did quite a lot
of copy editing, copywriting little jobs after I left Apage,
(01:06:16):
but even at Apogee, like I would do a lot
of press related materials, a lot of a lot of
interviews and things with artists while I was there, So
I was using what I learned in college and still
a bit of storytelling and in a world that you know,
I understood, even though it was the you know, technical
engineering side of it of the music, but it was
(01:06:40):
something that I knew a little bit more about than
most people, I suppose who aren't familiar with that world.
But I still like my brain wasn't you know, I'm
not I'm not an engineer. I don't have an engineering
kind of mind. So it was after that I definitely
was doing different short story classes and I would write
(01:07:05):
stories and yeah, mostly mostly just mostly short stories and
little projects like that, and I submitted some stories, like
I remember feeling I would. I was doing a writing
workshop after I moved back from New York, and I
wanted to be around other writers and and uh and
(01:07:31):
just meet people who weren't necessarily like pursuing the screenplay
side of things, but more with pros and and be
around people like that. And I just remember again it
was like before I felt like I found my voice.
And you know, you're trying to write like a writer
that you love and who is going to how are
you going to be taken seriously? And you know, there's
(01:07:52):
a lot of pressure when you're trying to do something
like that because you you're trying to prove to yourself
that you're going to be able to do it and
you have something interesting to say and how you're going
to deliver it and that and that it's worth worth
doing a million different jobs to pursue something. You know
it feels like it inherently you're building up so much
(01:08:15):
pressure because you've you've got to make it work, you know,
because you're I had abandoned like a traditional path in
order to pursue the writing, and so you've better make
sure you can write, you know that kind of feeling.
Speaker 2 (01:08:30):
What were the circumstances that brought about your decision to
become a full time artist?
Speaker 1 (01:08:36):
Then so so I so it was actually with the writing.
I the what happened was I abandoned, Like I remember
going into these short this short story class at UCLA.
It was an extension class, and I this fabulous teacher
named Stephen Cooper, and he had us obviously as you do,
(01:08:58):
you know, you workshop, you do a short stories and
you workshop with the group. And I kept really just
bombing these workshops, like where I felt like I was
whatever I was writing was just not translating and no
one was getting it. It didn't It felt forced, And
I can look back and completely agree. You know, I
think I was trying too hard to found or be
(01:09:22):
a kind of writer that I wanted to be. And
it wasn't from me, you know, it was this idea
of who what a writer is and how that person
would tell us stories and I so I was very
lost but trying to find my voice. And then one
day it just was really discouraging because you're in these
(01:09:44):
workshops and you get ripped apart, which is part of it,
you know, part of what you're signing up for, but
it can be pretty brutal. And then I was looking
after my friend's kid and taking her to her gym
class or something like that, and I remember just going,
I've got one more story in this class, and just
(01:10:05):
kind of like, screw it, I'm just going to write
how it comes out of me, rather than trying to
write like somebody else who's a writer, just write how
I was like, just allowed it again in the same
free form way that I found later to work for me.
I just got my head out of the way, and
(01:10:26):
I remember taking it to this gym class and the
teacher the whole scene was just pretty ridiculous, and I
started letting my imagination go and I was thinking about,
you know, what would happen if I if I just
let this character sort of run wild, and I just
(01:10:47):
put her on the page. And it was the first
time that everyone in the class like really reacted to
my writing, and it was the first time that I
wrote truly authentically but like free you know, free form,
free association, like free writing, just letting it come out
of me. And I think having that really positive feedback
(01:11:10):
and reinforcement gave encouraged me to keep writing like that.
And my teacher encouraged me to submit the short story
to this little literary magazine, and so I did. I
did that and it got in and I was going
to get this short story published and I did do
(01:11:31):
the illustrations for it. So I was doing a bit
of art at that time, but again like sort of
to compliment the writing. I would do, you know, illustrate
short stories, or I would do here and there, like
participate in little group shows and things like that. So
I was still doing it, but it was kind of
in support of the writing at that point. And so
(01:11:55):
then I moved to London and I ended up working
at this really amazing, like a very seminal sort of
time in my life, at this place called the Society Club,
and it was a little literary members club in Soho
and I had been working on these little short stories
(01:12:18):
and I was going in as a patron at first
and signing up for these writing workshops, and I really
bonded with the two women who were running it, and
eventually they gave me a job. It was a much
longer story, but they gave me a job, and I
(01:12:39):
helped them kind of run the bar. I mean I
say that loosely, but I was working there and one
of the women was like, stay here, you know, write
your novel, and you're going to meet all these different
people because at the time I had all these short
stories that I had collected, and one of the owners
was a literary agent and she was like, this character
(01:13:03):
is crazy and I want to know more about her,
and like, where's the novel. So anyway, I stayed there
and a lot of the patrons, the people who come
in were artists and writers and publishers and agents, and
it was a whole world that was so foreign to
me being in la I mean, it was completely different,
and it felt like a real fish out of water experience,
(01:13:24):
and I was so grateful to be there. And they
would have poetry nights and it was like a Shakespeare
company in current day London, you know. And I just
was so profoundly influenced by everybody around me, and it
was such an education, not only in learning about a
(01:13:44):
lot of different artists but writers. And so I finished
writing my novel there. But because I had gone about
it in a backwards way, which was sort of free form,
like talking or developing this character, I then had to
try make sense of it in a novel form, and
I got really really stuck, and the editing process was
(01:14:08):
was just pretty It was just really brutal, and I
didn't know how to make sense of it, and it
was kind of making me crazy. And I was really
close with different publishers and it was like so close,
but I couldn't figure out what to do. And my dad,
being a songwriter, he's used to obviously moving through things
(01:14:29):
quicker because it's not like a novel. It's a it's
a three minute song. But the concept was the same
where he was like, I think you're holding onto this
too tightly and you are suffocating it, and it's not
You have to let a project breathe, so you need
to put it aside. If it's going to have legs,
it will find it's it will find its way into
(01:14:52):
into the world if it's if it's meant to, but
it's not going to happen with you suffocating it like this,
and so he's like, do something else creative. And he
wasn't even telling me to do art, but he's like,
you know, you should learn, you know, learn how to
cook your friends a great meal. And that is creative
enough to just move my brain out of hyper focused
(01:15:14):
trying to of an edit onto something else. And I
was living in this little flat and I did have
a cabinet full of art supplies because I would illustrate
little bits like I was saying, of short stories and
things like that.
Speaker 2 (01:15:28):
What year was that?
Speaker 1 (01:15:30):
This was? I think around two thousand and fourteen.
Speaker 2 (01:15:38):
How long were you there in London doing this?
Speaker 1 (01:15:41):
I was there for a couple of years, so it
was two and thirteen to two thousand and almost fifteen
or somewhere around there. So towards the end of that stint,
just before I moved back here, I was at that
really tough place of being very frustrated in my end.
(01:16:01):
So I started doing these little dinner parties. And at
the dinner parties, I hate pictionary because it's so much pressure,
Like if you're meant to be good at art, I
just feel like it's And I make the joke that
it's like karaoke if you're a singer. I mean, I
guess a lot of people do like that when they're
a singer, but to me, it feels like you've that
(01:16:21):
performative aspect. It just all the pressure takes away the
fun for me. And so I was like, how do
I play a game? And the cooking in itself was
a great creative outlet for me. But what happened because
I was doing it was I was having these dinner
parties and then I wanted to play a game that
would level the playing field that wasn't any pressure for anybody.
(01:16:44):
And I wasn't thinking about what style I was doing
or anything like that, but I just gave everyone a
piece of paper late at night. It was like six
of us around a table, and I said, you have
to draw whoever is across from you without looking down
or lifting up the pen. And I just thought, well,
this was great because if you stuck then doesn't matter
(01:17:05):
because you're not looking. And if it's great, then that's
a wonderful bonus. And so but it did this amazing
thing where not only was it so much fun, and
I encourage anyone who is looking for a great dinner
party game, or even just trying to get out of
your head to do this, because it switched my brain
(01:17:27):
in the way that I didn't even realize I needed it.
I didn't even know how stuck I was. I mean,
I knew I was stuck, but I was so in
my head that all of a sudden I was I
was having a great time, and I was realizing I
was drawing these people. My friends were like, oh, yours
does kind of capture this person or that person? And
(01:17:47):
I think I gave myself permission to just have fun
with art again and be creative without all this pressure
of like what's it going to be and how to
make sense of it? And and I was just drawing.
I like it had been a while since I was painting,
because I was again so focused on the writing that
(01:18:08):
that at that point it was just sketches at a party.
But it completely unlocked my love of art again and
reminded me of how good it felt to do just
to create things without my head in the way. And again,
it was so organic, and that's why I feel like
it found me because I didn't know what I was
(01:18:29):
even doing. It was it was so natural and I
was just doing it because I was so duck for
a fun game, but because I was also the games
and the dinner parties were happening only because I was
so stuck with my writing. So I'm so grateful that
I was in such a creative rut ten years ago
(01:18:51):
that it forced me to look outside of what I
was doing do something else that wasn't even you know,
meant to turn into anything. And it organically, very authentically,
naturally turned into me finding the way that I was
going to draw. And it was later on that I remember,
(01:19:13):
you know, realizing that it was like blind contouring, which
is that high hand eye coordination technique, and I had
learned it like first. You know, it's like a fundamental
first day of art school, you know, I know everybody
learned that just to get out of their own way
and have fun with approaching the canvas and not being
(01:19:33):
so stiff. But you know, in my experience, it was
a sketch of a hand or a body quickly but
not ever built upon, and so it just I just
fell in love with it, and I realized we started
doing this all the time, and then I started sketching
people on the bus on my way to work like
that and I was having fun again with creating, and
(01:19:59):
then I said, did shading it in? And still not
even knowing, I never would have anticipated it becoming a career,
but because at that point it was it was just
what I was doing while I was figuring out my
next steps. And then eventually I moved back to la
and I had all these canvases that I had left
(01:20:21):
at my parents' house from you know, like I said,
I would do those odd shows here and there group things,
so I had some materials left. But I remember showing
my grandma and my dad and my brother. I was thinking, oh,
let me show you what I've been up to in
London and like how I've been drawing. So I drew
each of them separately on canvases that I had had
(01:20:45):
lying around, and then I was shaded them in with charcoal,
a charcoal like very basic, and then I and it
was really fun, but it was truly to just show
them what I had been up to. And then I
posted about it on Instagram again just sharing what I was,
what I was doing, and then somebody randomly said, oh,
(01:21:11):
you know, can you can I buy that one? And
it was of my brother. The one of my brother
and I said sure, And I remember my brother thinking,
you can't sell that, and I was like, wind up,
of course I can't. And it ended up being like
to one of my family friend's sons ex boyfriends living
in Tasmania, like just very random, and I sent it
(01:21:34):
to him. And at the time I think that, you know,
the shipping costs more than even what I charged, because
I was just so happy that somebody wanted it. It
was so nice that anyone was interested, and so I was.
I was elated, and I think I posted saying, oh,
you know, it's on its way to Australia. And then
(01:21:55):
someone else who I was Facebook friends with, who I
hadn't seen in like a decade at that point, said oh,
oh you're I didn't know you were selling them? How
much for the one of my grandma? So I sold
her that and then I posted saying that I was
shipping that off to wherever it was going. And then
someone else said, oh, if I send you a picture
(01:22:15):
of my friends, do you think you could do that
style of my friends? And I said sure so and
then and then I shared that I did that when
I finished it, and then and then that's how it
all started, and I've been doing it full time since then,
and it just words word of mouth.
Speaker 2 (01:22:35):
Really, yeah, that's really interesting. I'm wondering then, if you
think of that overlap you get, you know, the overlap
between writing and your artwork, and how that came about,
But what what has actually been the most fulfilling aspect
of your life so far?
Speaker 1 (01:22:54):
I think I'm very grateful for both of these sides
because I think, you know, sure that inherent pressure that
exists when you're trying to make your career and out
of out of doing something creative. I think having these
two different ways of doing it, these two outlets kind
(01:23:14):
of alleviated the pressure. So not all of it had
to be on one, you know, I didn't have to
do it as writing. Oh actually it was like, oh wait,
maybe I'm meant to be doing the art. And then
when I'd get frustrated with the art or stuck or
or you know, in my head again, because inevitably that
cycle continues, and that's that's the tough thing about it,
(01:23:35):
but then I could toggle back to the writing again.
And so in a way, I feel like they both
really helped me. They both sort of informed the other,
and I know it's all versions of storytelling, and especially
as I get more and more into narrative based scenes,
which I'm loving. I think there's so much going on
(01:23:57):
in a scene. I love painting big, large scale paintings
where there's a lot going on in so many different
ways to interpret. You know, every time you look at it,
you see something different or an interaction that you hadn't
noticed before. And I personally am very drawn to that,
and so there's exciting to do it, and I can
(01:24:19):
see how it's all They all influence each other, you know.
Speaker 2 (01:24:22):
And so what are you working on now? And where
can we see your work, Sophie?
Speaker 1 (01:24:30):
So right now I am finishing. I have a bunch
of commissions that people have been very patient with me
as I've done different shows and lots of different things.
But I have commissions that I'm working on. But I'm
working on also a series of new paintings, these large scale,
really fun, wild sort of European summer series and a
(01:24:56):
lot of beach scenes and a lot of a lot
of you know, European living scenes that I've had so
much fun working on and exploring, and a lot of
these And there's another part of me that doesn't use
blank Contour that's doing these sort of embrace embraces as well.
So I have two sort of kind of separate series
(01:25:18):
going on as well as the commissions, and so that's
what I'm working on and I'm going to be launching
those pretty soon. I'm in the middle of working on them.
So I on my Instagram is where I've been sharing
my work over the past you know, ten years, specifically
with this, So that's a good place, Giffner for anyone
(01:25:41):
who's curious to see and follow along. And I'll be
sharing new works on there, and I have prints and
you know, originals and prints and different events and things
that I'm doing that i share about on there.
Speaker 2 (01:25:55):
Well, obviously life is treating you well right now. It
sounds as if you in a very good place at
the moment.
Speaker 1 (01:26:03):
Thank you so much, Chris. I feel really good. I
feel like it's you know, it's such a for me personally,
has been such a secuitous, nonlinear, strange, you know, often difficult,
but really rewarding journey. And I am so grateful that
(01:26:25):
I'm still able to do this and people are interested
and that I can keep getting better. And I'm really yeah,
I'm just trying to I'm feeling really inspired and I
feel like there's a lot of there's a lot of stuff,
you know, that I can't wait to do, and that's
(01:26:47):
a really fun feeling. So thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:26:50):
Lots of creativity to come, yes for sure. Well, thank
you so much for taking the time to come on
the podcast and sharing your journey with us, Sophie. I
really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (01:27:02):
Thank you so much, Chris, and.
Speaker 2 (01:27:05):
We're going to hop over now to our YouTube channel,
so join us there where you can actually see Sophie
instead of just listening on the podcast. Now you've heard
the whole story, join us over there because we're going
to continue our conversation there for a few minutes. So
that's all on our YouTube channel, just look for the
Art Podcast forget art with two a's, but for now
(01:27:26):
here on the podcast. Sophie. Again, thank you very much
for joining me this week. Thank you, and before you go,
don't forget to scroll down the show notes, where you'll
find links to Sofie's social media and her website and
also to our social media. You can reach us on
Instagram at the Art Podcast, and you can also reach
us via email if you prefer to The Art Podcast
(01:27:49):
at gmail dot com. Don't forget this two a's in
art and if you have a moment, we would love
it if you would leave us a five star rating
and a review, because that raises our profile here on
the podcast app and therefore helps others find the show
amongst thousands of and remember to share this with someone
(01:28:09):
you think might enjoy the show too. My thanks again
to my guest this week, Sophie Kipner, and to you
for listening. I'll be back in two weeks time when
my guest will be the American abstract artist Anna carl
So I do hope you'll join me then
Hi, I'm Sophie Kipner and I'm a figurative abstract painter
and writer.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hello, and welcome to Art the podcast where we get
up close and personal as we get to know women
from around the world of visual arts. I'm Chris Stafford
and this is season three, Episode twenty. My guest this
week is the American figurative abstract painter and writer Sophie Kipner,
(00:32):
who primarily uses the blind contouring technique in her artwork.
Sophie was born in Santa Monica in nineteen eighty two
into an artistically musical family. Her English mother, Lizzie, was
a singer and dancer, her Australian father, Steve, a songwriter,
musician and producer, her grandfather a songwriter and producer, and
(00:54):
her brother Harrison, also a songwriter, musician and producer. However,
was to take a different route, with an early interest
in art, particularly sketching and learning portraiture, which would carry
her through to her professional career. Her parents emphasized self
expression as a learning tool, encouraging her creativity. While attending
(01:18):
Viewpoint High School in Calabasas, she developed an interest in photography.
Sophie was the first member of her family to attend college,
and she chose the Annenberg School at the University of
Southern California to study journalism and public relations, graduating magneal
Cum Lauder with a BA in two thousand and five.
(01:40):
Her earliest exposure to art and artists included visits to
galleries in Europe with her mother, which is where the
abstract work of Picasso caught her eye and subconsciously imprinted,
an influence that would later become apparent in her own work.
After graduating, Sophie spent time working for her aunt at
Apogee Electronics, where she learned a number of skills that
(02:03):
would later help her in her own business. Her love
of writing, especially short stories, became an important and relevant
aspect of her career. From twenty thirteen to twenty fifteen,
she worked at the Society Club in London, and it
was during this time that she introduced sketching games to
her dinner parties, which unlocked her love of art again
(02:26):
after many years focusing on her writing. After moving back
to la Sophie began showing her work on social media
and taking commissions. This eventually led to her decision to
become a full time artist, and since twenty fifteen. She
has had her works shown in multiple solo and group
(02:47):
gallery exhibitions and sold into commercial and private collections globally,
including the Salmn Art Collection in Iraq. Her writing was
also gaining momentum, and in twenty seventeen her first book,
The Optimist, a satirical look at the extremity of romantic desperation,
was published by Unbound in the UK and later in
(03:09):
the US and Canada. In twenty twenty one, the novel
was named a best Summer read by The Daily Mail
and optioned for film and television adaptation. Sophie was also
the subject of the Oscar shortlifted short documentary Sophie and
the Baron, which chronicles Sophie's friendship and artistic collaboration with
(03:31):
legendary Rolling Stone magazine photographer Baron Wollman. The award winning film,
directed by Alexandria Jackson, premiered at SX s W Film
Festival and was acquired by Disney as their first original documentary,
and is now streaming worldwide on Disney Plus. Sophie lives
and works in Santa Monica, California. Sophie, Welcome to the podcast.
(03:56):
Thank you for joining me. In podcast land.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Thank you so much for having me. It's my first
podcast experience, though I'm very happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
I love that well. It's an honor then for me
to have you as my guest and making your maiden
voyage into podcast land.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
I love it well. You've made it very exciting and fun.
I'm very happy to join the ranks.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
I appreciate you taking the time to do this. Just
set the scene for Sophie about where you are, because
I know your corner of the world. I've lived out there,
and I'd love you to describe if you would paint
a picture of where you are and in your studio
and the kind of light you have when you're working
and the ambiance you create.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
I love that. That's a great question. So I'm I'm
from from southern from southern California right around here, and
I'm from Topanga Canyon. But right now I live in
Santa Monica. I've lived all around La sort of and
all the different pockets, and I love being in Santa
monicaarticularly this place that I met now. It's a it's
(05:03):
a two bedroom sort of typical Santa Monica bungalow kind
of vibe and one of my one of my bedrooms
is my studio, and I have a big beautiful tree
that is very very old and magical that is outside
the windows, and I feel like it does cast some
(05:25):
you know, shadow and doesn't give me as much light
as I would love, but it has a lot of
you know, protective, beautiful energy, so it's a good trade off.
And different parts of the house have really really beautiful light,
especially morning time late afternoon. I love how the light
(05:46):
sort of sleeeps in. LA's got really beautiful light and
it changes so much in different places. I don't know
if you experienced that when you were here.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Absolutely yes, very much. So we're going to get into
your musical background. So it leads me to ask what
kind of musical atmosphere you like to create in your
studio when you start work each day.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
I think music is a very important integral part of
my practice. I think because I grew up around so
much music, and I feel though alive and like myself
when I have it. Sometimes I almost forget where you know.
(06:31):
Sometimes I'll go into sort of a work mode, and
if I haven't started playing music, I usually usually always
start by putting on music. But when I have moments
without it, and then I put it on. It just
enriches it so much and I feel so much more alive.
And I just think music is so incredible, and I
(06:53):
so my family is all in music, and so it
was just always around. So I think it feel very
natural to have it playing in the background. I I
generally listen to music while I'm while I'm painting, I
do listen to tons of podcasts and audio books and
(07:14):
stories often, but I have noticed that I'm doing that
more when I'm walking or and doing other doing other things,
because sometimes it's hard to track and follow a story
when I find myself, you know, in in that flow
when you're really in your work mode, I you sort
(07:35):
of you know, you're taking in all these things that
are subconsciously, you know, embedding into into your brain as
your as you're working, and so it's hard sometimes to
follow stories. I go in and out of it. It
depends if if I'm working on something that I is
more of a mundane task, you know, like I'm finalizing
(07:56):
something and I don't need to go into that kind
of deep creative zone. Then I can listen to more work,
you know, words and stories and follow them but for
the most part, I have a very extensive playlist that
probably can last for hours now, and I listen to
(08:17):
a very wide variety of music, and I will let
it sort of take me, you know, with it on
these journeys, and it's actually interesting. I wonder sometimes, like
how it affects some of the work that I'm doing,
but I'm sure it does. I'm sure that the feeling
in each and each kind of genre affects the movement
(08:42):
in the pieces, you know, I'm sure of it, whether
I'm aware of it or not, but i think it
does create a special space, like it makes it feel
like you've walked into a room and that's your time.
And I'm constantly adding music to this playlist. And maybe
(09:04):
because my father was a musician and a songwriter and
I was grew up being in the studio and listening
to him repeat songs, camping vocals over and over and
over again, I find a lot of pleasure out of repeating,
you know, listening to a song over and over again.
It sort of becomes trans like to me and helps
(09:25):
me really go into a very focused zone with my painting.
But I'm sure it's really annoying for anyone else, and
you know who who's around who might not be still
listening to stuff over and over again. But I love it.
When I love something, I can listen to it a
million times.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
So does the music set the tone then for the
atmosphere of your painting or does it come the other
way round? Would you start a painting and think, Okay,
this is this is where I am, this is the
vibe today, and this is what I need to listen to.
Which way round is it?
Speaker 1 (10:06):
I think that's a great question, and I'm not always sure.
I imagine I think it probably goes both ways. I
know there are certain songs that make me feel really
good and make me feel really happy and in the
right kind of mindset, but it might not be particularly
(10:27):
influential to that, like certain piece, but a lot of
a lot of the time I think if if it's
something that feels specific to like right now, I've sort
of moved away from doing more musicians, but there was
a time that I was doing a lot of musicians
(10:48):
and portraits and I definitely, I definitely would play that
music to set me in that world, and that was
really helpful. Like I did a triptych also this wasn't
one particular portrait, but it was more of a narrative
scene of a New York City nineties the street scene basically.
(11:12):
And so I was listening to music that was very
specific to that time, and I really do. I think
that it was a perfect example of what you're asking,
where I would play the music to help set the environment.
So I was there, you know. And then other times
when it's less specific to that, I think I go
(11:34):
more with how something feels rather than it being genre specific,
you know.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
And how about your daily routine? Are you a morning
person afternoon person? Or do you discipline yourself? If you
have work to do, then you're going to go in
in the morning and it's going to happen no matter
where your circadian rhythm is.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yes, I think that ideally that I show up every day,
and you know, as I'm sure you know as a
as a you know, as an artist, it's it's you know,
you don't always know where it's going to go or
how successful the day is going to be. But I
know that it's in the effort of just continually showing
(12:19):
up and and then and then putting yourself in that
environment to create something in some days I don't. I
feel like I've said I'm useless. I feel like I'm
completely unproductive all day and then I really get going
at a very annoying hour where it's way too late,
and sometimes and that's been happening, and I don't love
(12:42):
it because I think it's it's good. I wish I
had just a normal sleep schedule sometimes. But I think
ideally I feel great when I wake up and I
and I can start. I start work quite soon after
I've woken up. I feel like I have a lot
(13:04):
of energy in the morning, and I'm anxious, like in
a good way. I'm eager to get going, like I
feel like I've got a lot in me to get
out and I'm and I want to work on these
different projects. And I have so many projects going on
all the time. But but I think, you know, sometimes
(13:25):
the reality is I don't feel like I'm able to
concentrate sometimes until later on. It at odd hours, and
I think sometimes I think maybe it's because of how
quiet it is. If it's very early morning or really
late at night, and there's you know, the rest of
the world is so quiet, so there's none of there's
(13:47):
no sort of fomo or feeling like you should be
out in the world witnessing it and pulling from it.
I feel like it's it's such a special time that
is all your own. But I'm not sure how healthy
that is all the time, you know, to work that way,
but it is. It is hard because I don't wait
(14:09):
for like inspiration to hit. I think you sort of
you just have to you make it happen every day.
You know, you have to make it happen. You can't
like sort of wait for it. But the timing of
it is what's hard.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
I think, are you gentle and patient with yourself then
during those periods if you even if you have to
wait all day to really get into the groove.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
I think I'm a very impatient person, you know, by nature.
I've been trying to be more patient with myself and understanding.
The older I get, I'm the more aware of my
brain I've become. And it's like that wild West, you know,
(14:58):
where it's it's a wild player that I have only
recently started to try and understand. But I know it's
really important to have certain parameters and discipline around it.
So that way, it's like I think Jerry Seinfeld had
a great quote about that about you know, learning it.
It's like a wild stallion, but you have to learn
(15:18):
how to write it because otherwise it's it can take
you all over the place. So it's actually been a
real process of trying to be gentle with myself as
I learn how my brain can be all over the place.
But I know it can be. It's a wonderful thing.
I just need to learn how to make it work
(15:38):
for me. And I think being gentle with myself and
understanding that my process isn't going to be linear. I
just need to have the discipline to keep showing up.
But if I don't get something I used to, I've
been having a it can be really difficult when something
takes time. And you know, as you get better and
as you as you too in your craft, I think
(16:02):
your expectations of yourself get higher and so you never
you feel like you're always, you know, trying to get
to the next level. And I think I've become more,
you know, more of a tough critic on myself as
I've gotten better, because I know I can I can
do better, and that that sort of perfectionist side can
(16:25):
be in the way sometimes of like really true open,
free creativity. But I've been trying to just give myself
a bit of grace with it and like that is
my process. And sometimes things take me a really long
time and they don't understand it, and then on the
other side of it it makes sense. And so sometimes
(16:48):
I have to just you know, talk to myself and
remind myself that that it's you know, it's not it's
not a clear cut thing. It's it's not like some
some careers and jobs. I think it's it's much more
laid out in a like I said, like in a
linear way, and everything the way that I paint and
(17:12):
the style that I've created for myself because is like
this at once this really beautiful thing that I'm so
grateful for, but it's also tricky because it relies so
much on where I'm at and emotion and a lot
of other factors and and I and I think that's
(17:33):
what kind of can create something really fun and unique
and special. But it's it's a tough business model because
because it's hard to regulate or you know, plan ahead with.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Well, you've been a professional artist now for what the
last ten years, so you obviously have the discipline, but
how do you cope with the pressure, say, with commissions.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
I think I'm very grateful for the commissions because it's
been what has allowed me to do this full time
for the for the past, you know, ten years or so.
And and I love the process because it allows me
to meet new people and and yeah, and interact with
(18:21):
people I've I've I've made great friendships from people who
have who have done portraits for and done commissioned work
for and and I think it's such a beautiful way
of connecting with people. And but you know, inherently there
is pressure with it because when you're doing a portrait
(18:43):
for somebody, you know, you you want it to be great,
every single piece. I feel like I want to I
give everything in me too, and I want it to
be as good as I possibly can make it. And
you know, and and I think a lot of people
who are commissioning me know that my style is very
abstract and sometimes you know, maybe I'm getting into a
(19:07):
whole nother question here, but you know, it's it opens up.
You know. What's interesting about for me, what keeps me
interested is the fact that of sort of my approach
to each portrait keeps it really exciting and fresh, but
I never really know the outcome. And sometimes you know,
(19:30):
the way that you see somebody is that they know
that obviously they're coming to me, not for a realistic portrait,
so they know sort of what they're signing up for.
But I think it's always different when you see how
someone sees you, and and even with self portraits too,
how you see yourself. I mean, it is an interesting thing,
(19:51):
and I want to make sure that everyone's really happy
with how the portraits come out, because you want it
to be on their wall and for it to be
something that they look at and it brings them joy
and captures them in a way that is very specific
to them. And no matter how abstract it is, no
matter how wild, if the eyes are, you know, on
(20:13):
their forehead and all these different things, but it has
to still feel like them. And I think that that
is it is an inherent pressure with this kind of portraiture,
because it has to feel like them, even if it
doesn't look exactly like them, And then you want everyone
to be happy. And that's why sometimes it can take
(20:36):
a while because it is your own vision. But there's
a little bit of sort of back and forth and
collaboration that can happen at the very end where you know,
I sort of do what I feel is them from
not knowing them, you know, based on a photo or
talking with them, and it's my version of them. But
(20:59):
you know, when you know you want them to be happy,
I want to open it up to little bits of
like if there's anything that they don't love, then you
have to you know, sort of tweak little things afterwards.
And it can be difficult because since I'm drawing from
such an abstract place, changing one little thing can change
(21:22):
the whole the whole thing, you know, it's not just
like when it's so precise and measured. I think you
can probably fix an area very quickly, but sometimes when
the whole thing is off, changing one little thing can
completely make the person almost disappear in the portrait. So
(21:43):
it can I think it's uh. Commissioned work in itself
can be difficult because you're trying to create from a
pure place of artistry and creativity from yourself. But then
also you do have to take into account what your
collector or client wants, you know, and what makes them happy,
(22:05):
and so I think there's negotiation there. But it's been
a really special process for me, you know, and learning
about myself and how to make this work. You know,
I think it's been really interesting, but I'm really grateful
for it. But it can be really tough.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
When you're clearly a perfectionist. So are you want to
easily follow your instincts, your intuition in important moments just
with your art? But in general?
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Do I follow my instincts? Yes? I feel like, well,
what's interesting about this style because I use sort of
blind contouring as my initial approach to the canvas, and
I can go back with you about how that started.
But I think I was quite I've always been, you know,
(23:04):
sort of intuitive and sensitive and emotional about things. But
I don't think I connected like this to myself and
was able to access that level of instinct and gut
feeling until I started doing this style. And so it's
(23:26):
been such a great way for me to, yeah, to
really like fine tune my sense of self and have
that strength and conviction and knowing what feels right. And
it's you know, part of the maddening process is like
if I'm going on instinct, like I sometimes don't know
(23:48):
when I'm going to feel it, but when something is done,
like when I feel like something is finished, I just
know it. It just happens, and I have no idea
how long that will take. And sometimes it's a agonizing
amount of time, and then sometimes they get it right away,
and I just I it's it's impossible to tell someone
how long something will take it because it's it's so
(24:10):
each one is so specific. But I have a very
clear feeling when it's finished, and that is such a joy,
that feeling. And when I feel like I've captured someone,
it's a high, you know, And I think that fuels
me and and I sort of ride that wave that
(24:31):
that I get on and and it's chasing, it's constantly
chasing those those waves, and you know, and I feel
like so with blank contering, I'm I don't look at
the canvas for that initial line, so I only look
at the subject and not and not you know, I
don't look at the canvas, so I it's one continuous
(24:54):
line and I pretty much always start at the same place,
and I kind of have a similar approach. Obviously every
time it comes out differently, but it gives me the
chance to feel what I feel like that subject, like
how that subject feels to me as opposed to if
I were looking, I'd be taking into account how that
(25:17):
person might want to be portrayed. You know, Intellectually your
brain gets in the way and it tells you how
you feel like they would want to be seen as
opposed to how I feel it. And so having like
forcing myself to approach a blank canvas this way gives
me this freedom and it's so exciting also, which is
(25:39):
what can be difficult when you can't nail it for
a while. But I think it's given me the chance
to trust my gut that most of the time, when
my head gets involved, it's you know, that's when it
gets tricky for me. I think everything in my life
started getting better. It's been like this really beautiful less
(26:00):
and that I things are better for me when I
get out of my own way. And of course your
brain has to come in and and edit and clean
up and make sense of what you've what you've created,
because again it can't just be like this is how
I feel. Here you go, there's a portrait like it
has to it has to capture them, it has to
(26:21):
make sense, and that that fine tuning where you've taken
it from the sketch to a final piece that that
can you know that that's when your your head gets involved.
But that initial feeling I think is so connected to
my gut, and it's really strengthened that, and so I
(26:44):
I feel like it's affected a lot of other aspects
of my life. You know. It's kind of taught me
that lesson, you know, that just to sort of be
feeling forward and and to not overthink things. I used
to be a massive thinker. I'm not saying I'm not now,
but I used to be much more of a warrier
(27:05):
and sow in my head and always thinking about how,
you know, what other people are thinking. And I think
becoming an artist in this way and in using method
the methods that I do, especially the start of a piece,
has helped me get away from that, because you know,
(27:27):
it keeps that that kind of mentality. For me particularly,
it just keeps me too rigid. You know, If I'm
constantly too worried about everything, how can I feel free
to be creative? So it's been like the antidote for
for you know, for what I've always needed. I didn't
realize until I've found this style, but I really see
(27:50):
how it applies with everything. Probably you know, all sorts
of relationships, how I look at new projects, and even
with my writing, which is also a big part of
my life, but my main focus is art. But I
feel like it's in a similar way with how blind
countering is that is allowing you to access this other
(28:14):
part of you that can be more true and more
authentic because again, your self judging internal editor has been
kicked out as the room for a while. That's also
the same way that I had more clarity and success
with my voice as a writer, because with a sort
(28:34):
of that sort of automated writing, you know, with this
free writing, just free association. So anything that helps me
just like gives myself permission to freely express without the
confines of what it should be and the judgment that
(28:57):
will come later. I think I've found to be the
only way I've had any success, you know, and it's
just a good life lesson.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Would you say that art chose you or you chose art?
Speaker 1 (29:11):
I definitely feel that the art shows me, and I've
always been someone who's loved art. I think I've always
been off on my own planet, you know, in my
head and as a kid had a vivid imagination and
(29:32):
I didn't ever know that I would go into this
as a career. I don't know if you can anticipate that.
I had a beautiful example around me of a lot
of people who had made it being creative, and I
think that's so special, and I know how rare that is,
because you know, I think most of the time you're
(29:54):
the black sheep in a family when you do the
creative thing. But you know, I would have been the
black sheep, you know, had I tried a more corporate route,
you know, and I've tried little bits of that, and
I just knew. I think my family was waiting for
me to sort of come around and realize that that
that that being an artist in whatever form that is.
(30:16):
You know, for a while it was writing focus, but
that that is definitely you know, who I am. And
I had had to almost explore other things because I thought, well,
you know, I don't know how to make it or
how how will I do it? But then I started
embracing it. And you know, I'd always done little art
(30:37):
shows here and there, and always always did all my
extra classes and extracurricular electives and things like that. I
would always fill with art related things. A lot of
photography in high school, and but I and I studied
journalism in college but then used all my ex to
(31:00):
classes that I had. You know, my electives were always
art focused, and so I think it was always there.
But I and I had these people around me, like
I said, growing up, where I saw people with my
own eyes that were doing what they loved. So it
felt on one hand very natural and like possible, but
(31:23):
mostly from it was music related. I didn't have anyone
around me who was an artist, a visual artist, you know.
They were all sort of musicians. But I knew how
that was a tough world. But I knew I saw
it being possible, and you know, and that can be
tricky because when you're around people have been very successful
(31:45):
with it, it makes it feel like it's very accessible
and that anyone can do it. Not anyone can do it,
But I mean, it doesn't feel like this crazy thing.
It was something that was natural and U and uh,
you know, no one could help me with math, I
would joke, you know, growing up, because like no one
(32:07):
around me had any of those skill sets. But but
I but I also think that, you know, so in
the same way, because it was so music focused, being
a writer or a visual artist still felt like, well,
you've got to find your own way with that, because
we don't know how to do it. But I just
(32:30):
I knew that being creative, and my dad and my
family was always very encouraging of of of following that.
You know, you follow your passion, you follow what you
are meant to do, and and how you perceive the
world and make and how you make sense of it.
And so I was always very encouraged to do it.
(32:51):
And then and so and then I and then I kept,
you know, whenever I'd find myself in a block or
not sure where I would go. I do feel like
the art found me in the sense that it all
happened very organically, you know. I didn't think I want
to be an artist and just figure out how to
make it happen. I think I kept finding myself stuck.
(33:15):
I've had a million different jobs, which I'm sure is common,
I know for a creative person finding her way into
the world. And I've always been very attracted and interested
in people, and I'm curious, and I have had that
(33:36):
curiosity throughout my whole life. And and I love the
idea of having all these different have had these different
jobs because in a way, it would introduce me to
little tiny insights into different pockets of the world and
different groups of people and yeah, yeah, yeah careers and yeah,
(33:57):
worlds that I would otherwise not knowing thing about because
because I was so surrounded by music people specifically, that
all these other worlds were fascinating to me. But and
I do feel like I've pulled from lots of different
things I've learned in these in these different random jobs
(34:18):
that I've had, and I can see now in retrospect,
you know, how it all links together. But you know,
at the time you have you have no idea, but
I really did. I I found that the art kept
coming coming to me, you know, and not not just
that I was following where the doors were open. You know,
(34:40):
they say, like just you know, you you you keep
walking through where the open doors. So that was that
was sort of happening. But it wasn't planned out, you know.
I think I think it was like an inevitable thing
that I took a while getting to realizing, but that
(35:01):
the art and me embracing that just kept saving me,
you know, it kept pulling me back on track.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Let's go back to your childhood now, when you were
born in nineteen eighty two in Santa Monica, California. So
you are a California girl through and through, and as
you said, your family very musical. Your mother, Lizzie was
a dancer and singer, your dad, Steve, a songwriter, producer, musician,
and also your brother Harrison, a musician and songwriter. Was
(35:31):
it deliberate that you avoided that route you wanted to
be different? What were your the subjects of choice when
you were a child.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Well, I think, as far as you know, the music side,
I'm also my grandfather dad, my dad's father was a
songwriter and producer as well, and so I really had
it all around me and a lot of sort of
(36:03):
encouragement to explore that. But I think the writing aspect
because I was I'm not a good I'm not a musician.
I am the worst singer in history. I mean, I'm
so bad. I don't even sing to myself, you know, no, no, terrible, terrible,
I'm appalling. And what's interesting is like my dad actually
(36:27):
thinks that it's impossible because he's a singer, my mom
is a singer, my brother is a singer, and he's
like he thinks I must be faking it. That I'm
this bad. He's like, how is it possible that you
come from our family and you're this terrible? And it's
like I'm town deaf. But the truth is is that
inside I think I have a good ear, like I
(36:48):
know what it's meant to sound like, and I love
I love you know, I have written by all of
that I feel like inside of me, But it's how
it comes out. It just comes out completely different. Then
then I know it's like something. It just it just
doesn't come out of me in the way that I
know it's supposed to sound. And I have no idea
(37:09):
how people do it. I have so much respect for
musicians and how they how they remember the songs all
the time. I mean, it's incredible. But you know, the
songwriting aspect, I think obviously short form stories and so
that's like a through line in our family where it's
the storytelling aspect that for me it shows up in
(37:34):
story and in painting, and then for everybody else it's
it's in it's in song form.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Did you learn a musical instrument, Sophie.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
I my mom tried really hard to get me to
do piano, and I did a little bit of guitar.
But you know, I I I'm just yeah, just do it.
I feel like in my mind sometimes I'll hit a
few things that sounds really good and how a lot
of feeling. But I'm terrible and terrible.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
What were your subjects at school though, that you enjoyed
doing and also did as a hobby, and tell us
a little bit about more about the Little Sophie growing
up then that you were developing your own pathway clearly
from an early age. If it wasn't to be music, Yeah,
was it that was amusing you when you were young?
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Well, I think I would do I mean I think
I had a very rich fantasy life. You know, I
would create. I remember when I was younger with my
best friend, we would create all these worlds all the
time and it was really funny. And I know a
lot of kids do that, but we would like almost
(38:48):
you know, set up set up shop and set up
you know, almost like fake theater shows and do these
weird things. Or we would take over parst of the
living room. But instead of it being like most kids
where they do a performance for you, I feel like
my friend and I would would get all the you know,
(39:09):
get everything set up, make everybody stuck what they were
doing to come and we'd be like, the show's sold out.
It was like this really funny thing because it was
just you know, whoever's home, and of course it's not
sold out, or it's like the restaurant getting it all set,
you know, set up, and like come come to our
little restaurant. As little kids and my parents would remember
they'd come and we'd be like, oh, we're all we're
(39:31):
all busy for the night. You know, there's no room
available in this fantasy imaginary. Like so we had like
a sold out show and a fully booked restaurant, but
we were never actually doing those things. It was like
always just like this setup. Like I remember even playing.
I don't think I was much of a Barbie kid
(39:52):
or anything like that, but I would always love like
the setup of it, and then I would sort of
I feel like I could imagine that world and then
you're onto the next thing. So it was less about
even doing it. And that's probably an impatient quality of
mind too from an early age, but I was we
were constantly creating these little worlds, and I think you know,
(40:17):
I went into I was drawing. I think I forgot
that I used to draw, definitely, not I wasn't great.
It wasn't like my parents looked and thought, Wow, she's
going to be an artist. I doubt it. I doubt
that they were thinking that my dad is a pretty
good drawer too, he was going to go into drawing,
probably if he wasn't a musician. But you know, I
(40:40):
think that wasn't even that encouraged. It was sort of like,
you know, they gave me the space to do all
of it. But it wasn't like I don't remember anyone saying, oh,
you're good at you know, this is what you should do.
You're good at it. They were just very encouraging of like,
just be creative like my dad, because I asked them
(41:01):
not too long ago, was there a time that you
remember that I was, you know, painting or doing more
of that than usual. And my dad reminded me that
in my room growing up, I would paint all the
cabinet doors, and I would I would, but I would,
you know, integrate lines from books that I loved, and
(41:23):
it was you know, you know, it wasn't just painting,
it was all sorts of stuff. And so I think
I was constantly drawing all of my room, and my
parents allowed me to do that, which I think in
retrospect is really cool, like having your room be your
early canvases, all the walls and stuff. And for a while,
(41:48):
I would I would do that, and I wish I
had pictures of it, because I would. I think I
would even you know, paint over it and start new,
start new kind of murals all the time in the room,
but a lot of like mixed mixed media stuff and
again like yeah, pulling in quotes and different different things
like that. But I loved it. And then I remember
(42:10):
doing photography a lot in high school, not so much drawing.
And then towards the end of high school, I knew
I was going to go into journalism or trying to
be you know, more of the writing side. But I
did a little short summer sort of figurative figure drawing
(42:31):
class at otis. You know, even before like I always
thought I loved it. I knew I loved it, but
I didn't think that that's what I would do as
a career, so I kept doing them as sort of
side beside things. But you know, now in retrospect, I
see I was constantly wanting to do it, and wanting
to draw and just thinking that it was something I
(42:53):
would do on the side as I was trying to
develop my writing. But I see how it all sort
of came together her, you know, like even in new
cities I would live in in my twenties, I would
always do like little figure drawing classes in different cities,
in different places.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
Did your parents take you to museums and galleries when
you were young?
Speaker 1 (43:20):
I think a little bit. You know, we so my
mom is English and my dad's Australian and and I,
you know, grew up here. But we did a lot
of traveling when I was younger, and we would go
to England a lot. And I do I do feel
like we we probably did a lot of that, and
(43:42):
I don't I don't remember that so much. I I
think there was a lot of emphasis on less on
my mom. My mom's really interested in that, Like she
would have been the one to take me to museums,
and I remember doing a bit of that with her.
And but but I think my dad and it was
(44:04):
a lot of encouragement of just learning how to express
yourself rather than necessarily what's obviously very important, which is
you know, the education around it and the world around it,
but they were I was the first person to go
to college in my family line, and and so I
(44:26):
think it was, you know, you fine tune your your craft,
and you you've got to know about about Obviously other
other people who have who have, like you know, are
massively influential in the world that you want to be
a part of, and you have to learn from them.
But I kind of feel like, honestly, I was probably
(44:47):
more encouraged to just explore that within myself rather than
studying too much of other people. I think sometimes you know,
over education and overexposure can can kind of I think,
I think it's obviously very important to do, but I
(45:09):
also can see that it can be intimidating and discouraging,
and when things are so when there's so much to learn,
and like you know, with certain art school and different things,
you know, you can almost learn so much that you
realize it can be intimidating, and then it can make
you feel like you don't even want to start it
(45:29):
start at all, and you don't even know what your
voice is because because it has to be. I think
sometimes if you if you think too much about all
these things and trying to be like these greats before you.
It can it can stop you from feeling free to
figure out what your style and what your voice is,
(45:51):
even though I know it's important.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Did any of them have appeal to you though? Was
there anyone that you would particularly drawn to as you
your artistic taste was developing.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
I think every time we'd go to a museum, I
was always drawn, like across the room to Picasso. I
loved Pacassa so much, and even before I would know
up close what I was looking at, I just constantly was,
you know, drawn to his work. And I can see
(46:24):
now how that's influenced my style without even you know,
I wasn't actively trying to be abstracted in those ways,
but I was always so so drawn to his work.
And I remember being in Europe with my family and
whenever we would go to places I would I would
(46:45):
be very drawn, yeah, to his to his staff, even
when I didn't even know it was going to be
in the room, you know, just from far off. So
there was something about that that I was very very
attracted to and inspired.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
When we did you become aware of Free de Carlo
and her work.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
I think, you know, I mean, I mean, there's the
the amount that we all know through just culturally, you know,
being being aware of of of her and her journey.
I think that's like she's such a an influential female,
like one of the most influential female artists, and I
(47:31):
think I was always aware of her. But and I
found her story very interesting, her her her love story,
and it's like her relationship with Diego Vera and all
of that, Like, you know, I found all of that
really interesting and sort of what happens with the woman
(47:55):
in those relationships, you know, when the man is the
the artist, and then she's building up her her artistry,
you know, in in that space with it, and and
how they both kind of worked together and were inspiring
each other. And I found I remember feeling very interested
(48:18):
in in in her journey, you know, and how how
she managed to have a like I don't even know
how the love relationship and that personal side of it.
I'm not sure why that was so interesting to me,
but maybe I wondered, like how an artist is able
(48:40):
like her, you know, a female artist being in relationship
and and how does how does that? How does that work?
You know? And she she was able like the and
and yeah, just her process. I always I found her
very inspiring, I think, I mean, I I imagine in my
(49:01):
twenties I became more and more interested in her.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
Who would you say, then, has had the most profound
impact on your life as an artist and a woman.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
Well, I really love you know, some of the female artists,
like I realized, they're all very you know, figurative artists.
And you know, I love well Paula Rico. I really
was so drawn too. I remember seeing that painting that
(49:35):
she did the dance, and I was so I was
so drawn in to the faces and the expression and
the movement that she kept, you know, she would capture
in her work, and it was it was so endlessly
fascinating to me. I feel like I could stare at
(49:57):
that painting for a really long time and I really
I was. I was. You know, when something really moves you,
you know, you really feel it. And I certain artists
like that. I love Alice Neil, and you know, there
are some contemporary artists like Christina Bandband, who I love
(50:19):
so much. I think it's very interesting how there's a
lot of similarities between these artists. A lot of them
are have a lot of movement in their work, and
I wonder if that's because of that music side in
me or love of music around me perfeally that has
(50:40):
been embedded into you know, what I'm drawn to and
and I can, you know, because I can see it
and it's all like it it's beautiful, but it's the
celebration of bodies and and uh and like sort of
claiming that and especially on big space, on big canvases,
And I think it's I feel like I'm really drawn.
(51:04):
I'm drawn to that kind of work and art and
female artists who I appreciate lots of different styles, but
particularly female artists drawing women. I'm very drawn too, And
I keep going back to it.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
Has that shaped your idea of feminism then? The art
which came first for you as a young woman?
Speaker 1 (51:30):
Oh that's a great question. You mean, like has the
seeing like witnessing females claiming that aspect of themselves, Like
did that help me in understanding like what it is
(51:51):
to be a woman and fighting for.
Speaker 2 (51:54):
That and shaping your own values as an artist then?
And how that conveyed to your canvas?
Speaker 1 (52:02):
Yeah, I I really feel like I feel like I
can I think there's a celebration there that like hasn't
obviously historically been there, and that women witnessing and being
inspired by some of these incredible women who have gone
(52:26):
out and and and taken charge in in like in
their in their own expression of being a woman and
and how they see things. I think it's it's it's
definitely inspired me too to feel comfortable and you know,
(52:46):
and in what I and and how I'm seeing the
world and my part in it, you know. And I
and I think the more because it's one thing for
for other artists, like if it's the male's version of
a woman, it's still like there it's through their you know,
(53:09):
through their eyes, or it's still like you're you're being
looked at, like how women are are observed, you know,
in society and it's like all the eyes are on you.
But being able to see the world through these like
incredible women's eyes, you know, it's like we're it's our
(53:32):
own it's you know, you're witnessing like a woman see
herself as opposed to how the world sees a woman
and men see women, you know, And it's a very
empowering and important viewpoint. And I feel like especially and
(53:55):
I don't know if consciously like the fact that it's
all these women's bodies that I'm so drawn to the
voluptuousness of them, and all the different shapes and the
inclusivity of it, of all the different colors and shapes
and sizes and and all these different ways that bodies
(54:15):
are beautiful. I think I'm sure that plays into my
own my own way of wanting to see myself, you know,
and and how the world sees me, you know, and
and us as women. And yeah, I think it's it's
changing the way, you know, like some idealized version of
(54:38):
a woman versus like how beautiful and incredible, like all
these true versions of women are, you know what I
mean that aren't usually captured. I mean, I suppose throughout
history there's been a lot of emphasis on the voluptuous woman,
but it's it's different when women are being and capturing
(55:04):
themselves and the women around them versus, you know it
versus like some idealized version of a woman. You know.
Speaker 2 (55:14):
Yeah, it's the male gaze thing again, isn't it. It's
not so much a sexual message, is a message of
this is how I feel as a woman, and this
is how I want women to be portrayed. And you
hope that has an emotional impact on the viewer too.
Speaker 1 (55:32):
Yes, yes, I think so, And I think that's why
it's so important, because having people witness that perspective, you know,
through this art form, then they're able to you know,
that's how these like sort of inclusive conversations start happening
more and more, you know, because you're normalizing things and
(55:55):
putting them out there into the conversation that you know,
that's how things start changing.
Speaker 2 (56:02):
Right well, speaking of the emotional impact that art has
on the viewer, I'm wondering what you would like people
to understand about your work. What is your message to them,
even if it's not in writing, it's within your art.
Do you think people have an understanding of you when
(56:23):
they come away from looking at your paintings in a
gallery or.
Speaker 1 (56:28):
Yeah, it's a great question. Actually, someone sort of side note,
but sort of related a friend of mine who has
a piece of mine as a collector too. But he
was recently telling me at this art event where I
was showing some pieces. He was telling other people, almost
introducing them to me and saying, she's always in her
(56:52):
in her work, and I hadn't seen it like that.
It's interesting from his perspective, he feels like there's something
in the eyes. Obviously it doesn't they don't, you know,
it's all these other people. But he said, there's so
much a part of you in all of these in
all of your work. And I was thinking about that
(57:14):
a lot. And I, you know, I think I really
love imperfect things. I love the abstraction. But I feel
like with everything, you know, I'm drawn to I'm drawn
to that across the board, you know, in lots of
different form. But I've always been interested in that. And
(57:36):
I even had a short little stint where I were
in my twenties where I worked like as a shop
girl in it in the in a gems with a
gemstone dealer in New York City in the Diamond District.
And I was in a diamond building and we were
the only little shop basically, and it was a wholesale thing,
(57:57):
so it wasn't for anyone walking by. It was designers,
but it was gems only. And I had the most
incredible mentor who is a painter, and I'm still really
good friends with him, and he was my boss, and
he was the head of the Gemstone Association, and and
and his taste it was this arbitrary taste because you
(58:20):
get when you know gems like you're It was his
idea of what was valuable, which was so different from diamonds,
because diamonds, obviously there's a whole like sort of market
thing with holding and creating value and scarcity and all
that kind of stuff, and that's that's a separate issue.
But they also have it being you know, it's like rated,
(58:44):
and they have all this the classes and the cut
and everything, and you can sort of determine the value
of a diamond very mathematically, whereas a gemstone. What I
loved about it and I felt like it's really applies
to how I look at a lot of things in life,
where where the things that would devalue it, the flaws
(59:09):
in a gemstone, which are like these called inclusions, can
make it more valuable rather than being considered a flaw.
And I and I loved that so much just as
a philosophy and how to look at life. And and
I do feel like maybe my abstract, my abstraction of
certain s features on certain people, even though I'm not
(59:31):
trying to make anything exaggerated, but I like, I love
I love pronounced features, I love interesting faces. And I
love I love quirky details about people. And I think
sometimes in my work I will accidentally or you know,
(59:52):
subconsciously exaggerate features that I'm really drawn to and compelled by.
And and you know, and sometimes I can be like
in not in a cartoonish way, you know, I feel
like it. It abstracts it, but in order, but it
kind of makes it all really beautiful and interesting to me.
(01:00:13):
And and I think it accentuates parts of them that
maybe if they didn't like, or they might look at
as a feature that they're insecure about because in society
we're supposed to, you know, look a certain way. I
think it's I hope, I hope that the takeaway is
that it's celebrating these different aspects. And you know, and
(01:00:36):
I pick up on a lot of a lot of
different things by not looking for that initial line that
I wouldn't pick up on if I were looking, because again,
my head would be in the way. But I think
it's much more intuitive and emotional, and you know, and
and and I think, yeah, it feels more emotion that
the work ends up feeling more emotional in the end,
(01:01:00):
and and I and I and I like that celebration
of oddness, you know, because I want to live in
that world where everything's a bit wacky but fun, and
there's movement and the you know, you know, where the
where the perfect isn't the only celebrated thing, you know.
Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
You mentioned that you had done a lot of different
jobs along the way once you graduated from Annenberg School
at the University of Southern California. That was with a
bachelor's degree. What was that It was that in the
journalism that you mentioned.
Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
Yes, yes, that was in the school of It was
Annenberg School of Journalism and Communication, and I did pr
and I I was also like a research assistant, researching
corporate corporate reputation data. It was for one of my
(01:01:59):
profess and it was that was a completely interesting, different world.
But I really enjoyed that.
Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
So from there then, what did you do after school?
And did you have any idea where you were going,
what your direction might be or was it just a
matter of getting a job and then seeing what happens
before you actually found your vocation in art?
Speaker 1 (01:02:22):
Well, I worked my aunt, I call her my aunt.
She's you know, basically, but both my children, both my
parents are only children, so I have a lot of
aunts and uncles that who are as family as I'll
ever have, and one of them, she's an incredible woman
(01:02:46):
who owns a very successful pro audio company, and she's married,
you know, to a music engineer. And there are people
that might she's known me since I was a baby
and just born, and so she she gave me a
great job out of college and in the marketing department.
(01:03:07):
And I was doing sort of artists relations and marketing
for this pro audio company. So it was a taste
into a more corporate world, you know. It was a
it was definitely like a normal job in that sense,
probably less less corporate than most corporate jobs, you know,
because it was still it was like a you know,
(01:03:30):
it was it's a it's a great company, big company,
but but still sort of you know, female run and
and still you know, small enough where it wasn't like
a traditional big corporate, corporate job. But I really loved
working there, and I just went to celebrate big milestone
(01:03:51):
for them as a as a company. And and I'm
still friends with everybody that I used to work with,
and I'm really close. So that's it is called Apage Electronics,
and I'm still you know, still like my family. But
I think she, you know, she was wonderful giving me
a great job out of college, and and and I
(01:04:13):
and again, I loved it, and I loved playing like
almost house in this role that was so different, you know,
from my family. Even though it was music related, it
was still you know, no one in my in my
family had ever had a corporate ish job. Even so,
so it was it was fun for me to feel
(01:04:34):
like I was almost rebelling, like I was saying earlier
against my family by doing more of a job like that,
even though it was it was, you know, not a
typical sort of rigid corporate kind of you know, it's
not like a banking job or something like that. But
I still was around music all the time, and and
(01:04:56):
I had a great time there, and I learned a lot.
But I think I always knew that my brain wasn't
meant for that kind of environment. I think, I you know,
I'm terrible at prioritizing tasks, and you know, and and
and I think I think it just became clear over
(01:05:17):
time that that I wanted to be to be writing
and and pursuing other things. And I was focused on
writing at the time, so I'd done that for a
couple of years and very grateful for it because it
did give me a lot of structure and understanding of
of things that you know, business wise that have to
(01:05:38):
are still part no matter how creative your job is,
that's all part of running a business. And you know,
now I'm running my own little business.
Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
What kind of writing was it.
Speaker 1 (01:05:50):
I was doing. I was doing well. I did like
I would sort of look after kids and then I
would do short story stuff, but I would get paid
also doing copywriting because I in school. I feel like
in college I was doing a bit of that on
the side too, and so I did quite a lot
of copy editing, copywriting little jobs after I left Apage,
(01:06:16):
but even at Apogee, like I would do a lot
of press related materials, a lot of a lot of
interviews and things with artists while I was there, So
I was using what I learned in college and still
a bit of storytelling and in a world that you know,
I understood, even though it was the you know, technical
engineering side of it of the music, but it was
(01:06:40):
something that I knew a little bit more about than
most people, I suppose who aren't familiar with that world.
But I still like my brain wasn't you know, I'm
not I'm not an engineer. I don't have an engineering
kind of mind. So it was after that I definitely
was doing different short story classes and I would write
(01:07:05):
stories and yeah, mostly mostly just mostly short stories and
little projects like that, and I submitted some stories, like
I remember feeling I would. I was doing a writing
workshop after I moved back from New York, and I
wanted to be around other writers and and uh and
(01:07:31):
just meet people who weren't necessarily like pursuing the screenplay
side of things, but more with pros and and be
around people like that. And I just remember again it
was like before I felt like I found my voice.
And you know, you're trying to write like a writer
that you love and who is going to how are
you going to be taken seriously? And you know, there's
(01:07:52):
a lot of pressure when you're trying to do something
like that because you you're trying to prove to yourself
that you're going to be able to do it and
you have something interesting to say and how you're going
to deliver it and that and that it's worth worth
doing a million different jobs to pursue something. You know
it feels like it inherently you're building up so much
(01:08:15):
pressure because you've you've got to make it work, you know,
because you're I had abandoned like a traditional path in
order to pursue the writing, and so you've better make
sure you can write, you know that kind of feeling.
Speaker 2 (01:08:30):
What were the circumstances that brought about your decision to
become a full time artist?
Speaker 1 (01:08:36):
Then so so I so it was actually with the writing.
I the what happened was I abandoned, Like I remember
going into these short this short story class at UCLA.
It was an extension class, and I this fabulous teacher
named Stephen Cooper, and he had us obviously as you do,
(01:08:58):
you know, you workshop, you do a short stories and
you workshop with the group. And I kept really just
bombing these workshops, like where I felt like I was
whatever I was writing was just not translating and no
one was getting it. It didn't It felt forced, And
I can look back and completely agree. You know, I
think I was trying too hard to found or be
(01:09:22):
a kind of writer that I wanted to be. And
it wasn't from me, you know, it was this idea
of who what a writer is and how that person
would tell us stories and I so I was very
lost but trying to find my voice. And then one
day it just was really discouraging because you're in these
(01:09:44):
workshops and you get ripped apart, which is part of it,
you know, part of what you're signing up for, but
it can be pretty brutal. And then I was looking
after my friend's kid and taking her to her gym
class or something like that, and I remember just going,
I've got one more story in this class, and just
(01:10:05):
kind of like, screw it, I'm just going to write
how it comes out of me, rather than trying to
write like somebody else who's a writer, just write how
I was like, just allowed it again in the same
free form way that I found later to work for me.
I just got my head out of the way, and
(01:10:26):
I remember taking it to this gym class and the
teacher the whole scene was just pretty ridiculous, and I
started letting my imagination go and I was thinking about,
you know, what would happen if I if I just
let this character sort of run wild, and I just
(01:10:47):
put her on the page. And it was the first
time that everyone in the class like really reacted to
my writing, and it was the first time that I
wrote truly authentically but like free you know, free form,
free association, like free writing, just letting it come out
of me. And I think having that really positive feedback
(01:11:10):
and reinforcement gave encouraged me to keep writing like that.
And my teacher encouraged me to submit the short story
to this little literary magazine, and so I did. I
did that and it got in and I was going
to get this short story published and I did do
(01:11:31):
the illustrations for it. So I was doing a bit
of art at that time, but again like sort of
to compliment the writing. I would do, you know, illustrate
short stories, or I would do here and there, like
participate in little group shows and things like that. So
I was still doing it, but it was kind of
in support of the writing at that point. And so
(01:11:55):
then I moved to London and I ended up working
at this really amazing, like a very seminal sort of
time in my life, at this place called the Society Club,
and it was a little literary members club in Soho
and I had been working on these little short stories
(01:12:18):
and I was going in as a patron at first
and signing up for these writing workshops, and I really
bonded with the two women who were running it, and
eventually they gave me a job. It was a much
longer story, but they gave me a job, and I
(01:12:39):
helped them kind of run the bar. I mean I
say that loosely, but I was working there and one
of the women was like, stay here, you know, write
your novel, and you're going to meet all these different
people because at the time I had all these short
stories that I had collected, and one of the owners
was a literary agent and she was like, this character
(01:13:03):
is crazy and I want to know more about her,
and like, where's the novel. So anyway, I stayed there
and a lot of the patrons, the people who come
in were artists and writers and publishers and agents, and
it was a whole world that was so foreign to
me being in la I mean, it was completely different,
and it felt like a real fish out of water experience,
(01:13:24):
and I was so grateful to be there. And they
would have poetry nights and it was like a Shakespeare
company in current day London, you know. And I just
was so profoundly influenced by everybody around me, and it
was such an education, not only in learning about a
(01:13:44):
lot of different artists but writers. And so I finished
writing my novel there. But because I had gone about
it in a backwards way, which was sort of free form,
like talking or developing this character, I then had to
try make sense of it in a novel form, and
I got really really stuck, and the editing process was
(01:14:08):
was just pretty It was just really brutal, and I
didn't know how to make sense of it, and it
was kind of making me crazy. And I was really
close with different publishers and it was like so close,
but I couldn't figure out what to do. And my dad,
being a songwriter, he's used to obviously moving through things
(01:14:29):
quicker because it's not like a novel. It's a it's
a three minute song. But the concept was the same
where he was like, I think you're holding onto this
too tightly and you are suffocating it, and it's not
You have to let a project breathe, so you need
to put it aside. If it's going to have legs,
it will find it's it will find its way into
(01:14:52):
into the world if it's if it's meant to, but
it's not going to happen with you suffocating it like this,
and so he's like, do something else creative. And he
wasn't even telling me to do art, but he's like,
you know, you should learn, you know, learn how to
cook your friends a great meal. And that is creative
enough to just move my brain out of hyper focused
(01:15:14):
trying to of an edit onto something else. And I
was living in this little flat and I did have
a cabinet full of art supplies because I would illustrate
little bits like I was saying, of short stories and
things like that.
Speaker 2 (01:15:28):
What year was that?
Speaker 1 (01:15:30):
This was? I think around two thousand and fourteen.
Speaker 2 (01:15:38):
How long were you there in London doing this?
Speaker 1 (01:15:41):
I was there for a couple of years, so it
was two and thirteen to two thousand and almost fifteen
or somewhere around there. So towards the end of that stint,
just before I moved back here, I was at that
really tough place of being very frustrated in my end.
(01:16:01):
So I started doing these little dinner parties. And at
the dinner parties, I hate pictionary because it's so much pressure,
Like if you're meant to be good at art, I
just feel like it's And I make the joke that
it's like karaoke if you're a singer. I mean, I
guess a lot of people do like that when they're
a singer, but to me, it feels like you've that
(01:16:21):
performative aspect. It just all the pressure takes away the
fun for me. And so I was like, how do
I play a game? And the cooking in itself was
a great creative outlet for me. But what happened because
I was doing it was I was having these dinner
parties and then I wanted to play a game that
would level the playing field that wasn't any pressure for anybody.
(01:16:44):
And I wasn't thinking about what style I was doing
or anything like that, but I just gave everyone a
piece of paper late at night. It was like six
of us around a table, and I said, you have
to draw whoever is across from you without looking down
or lifting up the pen. And I just thought, well,
this was great because if you stuck then doesn't matter
(01:17:05):
because you're not looking. And if it's great, then that's
a wonderful bonus. And so but it did this amazing
thing where not only was it so much fun, and
I encourage anyone who is looking for a great dinner
party game, or even just trying to get out of
your head to do this, because it switched my brain
(01:17:27):
in the way that I didn't even realize I needed it.
I didn't even know how stuck I was. I mean,
I knew I was stuck, but I was so in
my head that all of a sudden I was I
was having a great time, and I was realizing I
was drawing these people. My friends were like, oh, yours
does kind of capture this person or that person? And
(01:17:47):
I think I gave myself permission to just have fun
with art again and be creative without all this pressure
of like what's it going to be and how to
make sense of it? And and I was just drawing.
I like it had been a while since I was painting,
because I was again so focused on the writing that
(01:18:08):
that at that point it was just sketches at a party.
But it completely unlocked my love of art again and
reminded me of how good it felt to do just
to create things without my head in the way. And again,
it was so organic, and that's why I feel like
it found me because I didn't know what I was
(01:18:29):
even doing. It was it was so natural and I
was just doing it because I was so duck for
a fun game, but because I was also the games
and the dinner parties were happening only because I was
so stuck with my writing. So I'm so grateful that
I was in such a creative rut ten years ago
(01:18:51):
that it forced me to look outside of what I
was doing do something else that wasn't even you know,
meant to turn into anything. And it organically, very authentically,
naturally turned into me finding the way that I was
going to draw. And it was later on that I remember,
(01:19:13):
you know, realizing that it was like blind contouring, which
is that high hand eye coordination technique, and I had
learned it like first. You know, it's like a fundamental
first day of art school, you know, I know everybody
learned that just to get out of their own way
and have fun with approaching the canvas and not being
(01:19:33):
so stiff. But you know, in my experience, it was
a sketch of a hand or a body quickly but
not ever built upon, and so it just I just
fell in love with it, and I realized we started
doing this all the time, and then I started sketching
people on the bus on my way to work like
that and I was having fun again with creating, and
(01:19:59):
then I said, did shading it in? And still not
even knowing, I never would have anticipated it becoming a career,
but because at that point it was it was just
what I was doing while I was figuring out my
next steps. And then eventually I moved back to la
and I had all these canvases that I had left
(01:20:21):
at my parents' house from you know, like I said,
I would do those odd shows here and there group things,
so I had some materials left. But I remember showing
my grandma and my dad and my brother. I was thinking, oh,
let me show you what I've been up to in
London and like how I've been drawing. So I drew
each of them separately on canvases that I had had
(01:20:45):
lying around, and then I was shaded them in with charcoal,
a charcoal like very basic, and then I and it
was really fun, but it was truly to just show
them what I had been up to. And then I
posted about it on Instagram again just sharing what I was,
what I was doing, and then somebody randomly said, oh,
(01:21:11):
you know, can you can I buy that one? And
it was of my brother. The one of my brother
and I said sure, And I remember my brother thinking,
you can't sell that, and I was like, wind up,
of course I can't. And it ended up being like
to one of my family friend's sons ex boyfriends living
in Tasmania, like just very random, and I sent it
(01:21:34):
to him. And at the time I think that, you know,
the shipping costs more than even what I charged, because
I was just so happy that somebody wanted it. It
was so nice that anyone was interested, and so I was.
I was elated, and I think I posted saying, oh,
you know, it's on its way to Australia. And then
(01:21:55):
someone else who I was Facebook friends with, who I
hadn't seen in like a decade at that point, said oh,
oh you're I didn't know you were selling them? How
much for the one of my grandma? So I sold
her that and then I posted saying that I was
shipping that off to wherever it was going. And then
someone else said, oh, if I send you a picture
(01:22:15):
of my friends, do you think you could do that
style of my friends? And I said sure so and
then and then I shared that I did that when
I finished it, and then and then that's how it
all started, and I've been doing it full time since then,
and it just words word of mouth.
Speaker 2 (01:22:35):
Really, yeah, that's really interesting. I'm wondering then, if you
think of that overlap you get, you know, the overlap
between writing and your artwork, and how that came about,
But what what has actually been the most fulfilling aspect
of your life so far?
Speaker 1 (01:22:54):
I think I'm very grateful for both of these sides
because I think, you know, sure that inherent pressure that
exists when you're trying to make your career and out
of out of doing something creative. I think having these
two different ways of doing it, these two outlets kind
(01:23:14):
of alleviated the pressure. So not all of it had
to be on one, you know, I didn't have to
do it as writing. Oh actually it was like, oh wait,
maybe I'm meant to be doing the art. And then
when I'd get frustrated with the art or stuck or
or you know, in my head again, because inevitably that
cycle continues, and that's that's the tough thing about it,
(01:23:35):
but then I could toggle back to the writing again.
And so in a way, I feel like they both
really helped me. They both sort of informed the other,
and I know it's all versions of storytelling, and especially
as I get more and more into narrative based scenes,
which I'm loving. I think there's so much going on
(01:23:57):
in a scene. I love painting big, large scale paintings
where there's a lot going on in so many different
ways to interpret. You know, every time you look at it,
you see something different or an interaction that you hadn't
noticed before. And I personally am very drawn to that,
and so there's exciting to do it, and I can
(01:24:19):
see how it's all They all influence each other, you know.
Speaker 2 (01:24:22):
And so what are you working on now? And where
can we see your work, Sophie?
Speaker 1 (01:24:30):
So right now I am finishing. I have a bunch
of commissions that people have been very patient with me
as I've done different shows and lots of different things.
But I have commissions that I'm working on. But I'm
working on also a series of new paintings, these large scale,
really fun, wild sort of European summer series and a
(01:24:56):
lot of beach scenes and a lot of a lot
of you know, European living scenes that I've had so
much fun working on and exploring, and a lot of
these And there's another part of me that doesn't use
blank Contour that's doing these sort of embrace embraces as well.
So I have two sort of kind of separate series
(01:25:18):
going on as well as the commissions, and so that's
what I'm working on and I'm going to be launching
those pretty soon. I'm in the middle of working on them.
So I on my Instagram is where I've been sharing
my work over the past you know, ten years, specifically
with this, So that's a good place, Giffner for anyone
(01:25:41):
who's curious to see and follow along. And I'll be
sharing new works on there, and I have prints and
you know, originals and prints and different events and things
that I'm doing that i share about on there.
Speaker 2 (01:25:55):
Well, obviously life is treating you well right now. It
sounds as if you in a very good place at
the moment.
Speaker 1 (01:26:03):
Thank you so much, Chris. I feel really good. I
feel like it's you know, it's such a for me personally,
has been such a secuitous, nonlinear, strange, you know, often difficult,
but really rewarding journey. And I am so grateful that
(01:26:25):
I'm still able to do this and people are interested
and that I can keep getting better. And I'm really yeah,
I'm just trying to I'm feeling really inspired and I
feel like there's a lot of there's a lot of stuff,
you know, that I can't wait to do, and that's
(01:26:47):
a really fun feeling. So thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:26:50):
Lots of creativity to come, yes for sure. Well, thank
you so much for taking the time to come on
the podcast and sharing your journey with us, Sophie. I
really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (01:27:02):
Thank you so much, Chris, and.
Speaker 2 (01:27:05):
We're going to hop over now to our YouTube channel,
so join us there where you can actually see Sophie
instead of just listening on the podcast. Now you've heard
the whole story, join us over there because we're going
to continue our conversation there for a few minutes. So
that's all on our YouTube channel, just look for the
Art Podcast forget art with two a's, but for now
(01:27:26):
here on the podcast. Sophie. Again, thank you very much
for joining me this week. Thank you, and before you go,
don't forget to scroll down the show notes, where you'll
find links to Sofie's social media and her website and
also to our social media. You can reach us on
Instagram at the Art Podcast, and you can also reach
us via email if you prefer to The Art Podcast
(01:27:49):
at gmail dot com. Don't forget this two a's in
art and if you have a moment, we would love
it if you would leave us a five star rating
and a review, because that raises our profile here on
the podcast app and therefore helps others find the show
amongst thousands of and remember to share this with someone
(01:28:09):
you think might enjoy the show too. My thanks again
to my guest this week, Sophie Kipner, and to you
for listening. I'll be back in two weeks time when
my guest will be the American abstract artist Anna carl
So I do hope you'll join me then
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