December 4, 2025 • 40 mins
David Campbell and I cut through the noise and expose how cultural Marxism, political corruption, and a compromised church are reshaping America in real time. This conversation confronts the collapse of moral leadership, the rise of identity-driven politics, and the refusal of Christian leaders to engage in the debates that actually matter. When truth is abandoned, chaos fills the void. It is time to face what is happening and return to the only foundation strong enough to withstand it.
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Tune into The Jeff Dornik Show LIVE every Tuesday and Thursday at 1pm ET. Subscribe on Rumble and never miss a show. https://rumble.com/c/jeffdornik
Big Tech is silencing truth while farming your data to feed the machine. That’s why I built Pickax… a free speech platform that puts power back in your hands and your voice beyond their reach. Sign up today: https://pickax.com/?referralCode=y7wxvwq&refSource=copy
Follow David Campbell on Pickax - https://pickax.com/ClarityfromChaos
Follow Jeff Dornik on Pickax - https://pickax.com/jeffdornik
Tune into The Jeff Dornik Show LIVE every Tuesday and Thursday at 1pm ET. Subscribe on Rumble and never miss a show. https://rumble.com/c/jeffdornik
Big Tech is silencing truth while farming your data to feed the machine. That’s why I built Pickax… a free speech platform that puts power back in your hands and your voice beyond their reach. Sign up today: https://pickax.com/?referralCode=y7wxvwq&refSource=copy
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Live from the Clarity from Chaos Studios heard worldwide. It's
Dave Campbell. On free episode. Dave and his guest explore, discuss,
and work on solutions to some of life's biggest challenges.
So if you're ready, be prepared to be enlightened, amused,
and even shocked by what you hear. And now the real,
(00:35):
the authentic, the one and only Dave Campbell.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Welcome everyone, I'm your host, Dave Campbell, and you are
listening to Clarity from Chaos. If you're new to the
show and you like what we're doing here, take a
moment go out to my website on substack. The side
address is https forward slash forward slash Clarity from Chaos
dot substance. There you can listen to the archives shows
(01:02):
that I've done, see the upcoming guests, and if you like,
support the show by clicking the subscribe button. Ladies and gentlemen,
we stand on the precipice. Members of Congress are asking
our military now to refuse unlawful orders without providing any
kind of examples. A continuous rise in violent protests, and
(01:23):
a political system that is no more than kabuki theater.
We have activist judges acting as president and no one
is holding anyone accountable for their actions. It's no wonder
the electorate has lost their trust and patience with our system.
Hope is disappearing. We need to stop thinking in terms
(01:45):
of Democrat and Republican his adversaries, and we need to
begin thinking more biblical. We need to bring the Church
and the Bible into our lives, and we need to
defeat this threat spiritually. And we need to elect better representation,
individuals who answer to a higher authority and not the
puppet masters they answer to today. Our guest on this
(02:08):
edition of Clarity is not a newcomer to battling the
evil propaganda heaped upon us by the corporate media are
politicians and social media. He is the founder, president and
CEO of Pickaxe, a groundbreaking social media platform, and the
author of Following the Leader. Mister Jeff Dornick, Welcome to
(02:29):
the show. Jeff, thanks for having me on. Been looking
forward to chat with you before we get going on
everything in your book. I'd like your thoughts on the
rise of the DSA in this country because I think
since the Obama administration, I think has been put on steroids,
(02:51):
and I think everything that we're seeing the rewriting of history,
the rise of the whole term of racism, the attack
on the church, the attack on the Fan family, all
of it's right out of the Marxist playbook, and it
just seems like we're losing ground against it.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Jeff, Yeah, no, I I agree.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
And it's it's interesting because a few years ago, I
actually I put together kind of like two back to
back group project books. One was called Social Injustice and
the other one was called Church and State. And in
Church and State that we were looking specifically at the
strategy of infiltration by these cultural Marxists and leftists, but
specifically into the evangelical church, and we looked at how
they how they dope into the seminaries, how they how
(03:31):
they hijack that, and they're influencing people through conferences and
celebrity worship and all that kind of stuff. It's really
and it's really interesting because they're using the exact same
tactics in every single sphere of influence, whether you're talking
about education or you're talking about the church, are you
talking about politics or political parties. And that's one of
my concerns and that's why I'm you know, I loved
your opening monologue was because it's not about Democrat versus Republican.
(03:54):
This is this is about right versus wrong, this is
about good versus evil, this is about God versus Satan.
There's there's there's so many ways to put it. But
it's not about Democrat versus Republican. And that's the thing
that I think. I think a lot of people think, like, oh,
conservative liberal means Republican Democrat. It's like, well, no, that's not.
Actually what that means is not what this fight is about.
(04:14):
It's about truth and error, it's about right and wrong.
It's about the future of humanity. And I'm really concerned
with the trajectory that we're heading in because it doesn't
matter what political party you're looking at, it seems like
they're both hurtling us over the cliff.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yeah, And if anybody would disagree with that, I would
I would offer up the explanation of you had Elon
Musk and his team come in and do the whole
Doge thing at the beginning of the Trump campaign and
uncover and show the waste and abuse and everything else
that our government is today, and Congress as yet has
(04:55):
codified any of that work. Which tells me that they've
got their hands in the same damn cookie jar that
the Democrats. So there really is no difference other than
reaching into the primordial pool and pulling out somebody and
saying you're a Democrat and reaching your hand back into
(05:16):
the same bucket and pulling out and say you're a Republican,
because there is no real differentiation if I if I'm
looking at it right now. So it's really come down
to being just binary good and evil. And I think people,
and it was so tragic with Charlie. I think people.
(05:38):
I think Charlie's death and that's Charlie Kirk. For those
who don't know what I'm talking about, I think Charlie's
death may be the tipping point or the start of
the tipping point for the public to start understanding what
we're talking about.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
No, it's a good point because because I think no
matter which way you look at it, it feels like
that moment that that happened, there was a change in
our country. This is that's when you saw you begin
you begin to see the Republican Party infighting in a
way that we haven't had in fighting before. It's when
we're we're we started turning on each other. And I
(06:15):
think a lot of it is because you know, when
you think about it, like Charlie Kirk was one of
those guys that that was very unifying and he would
bring to he would bring different people together with differing
opinions and viewpoints and okay, cool, we disagree, let's let's debate,
let's talk about it, let's discuss, let's let's dive into
this kind of thing. And then now all of a sudden,
you have all that, you have, all these people that
now that you don't have that unifying factor of somebody
(06:36):
like Charlie Kirk where it's just like now they're left
to their own devices. There is there is nobody to
unify anymore. And that that's my that's my big thing,
especially you know, for me running a social media platform,
and I'm trying to figure out, how do we get
people to talk to each other again, how do we
how do we get people to disagree with each other again?
And guess what, it's okay, it's okay to dive to
(06:58):
have differences of opinion so like, and it's really interesting
because I've been I've been trying to moderate a debate
between specifically within Christian pastors about replacement theology versus versus Zionism,
and because because I can poke holes in both arguments
and I find agreement with both arguments in different ways,
and so I'm like, Okay, let's actually let's actually duke
(07:18):
this out. I can't find anybody. And it's really weird
because this is more the side that I would find
myself aligned with in general theologically and historically. I can't
find any Zionist pastor that will actually go come into
a debate against the replacement theology guy because they're like, oh,
we don't want to give them credibility when I do that.
And I'm just sitting here and I'm like, the apostle
Paul would go into false, idle temples and talk to
(07:41):
false prophets and debate them and stuff. And you can't
debate a guy over replacement theology, Like what is happening
right now?
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Right you don't? You know? And it's interesting. The church
I go to, we have we have a couple of
authors that are apologists that are extremely extremely well Verse ten.
They would enter any kind of discussion like that. But
if you look across the spectrum, the broad spectrum of
the church. They've all you know, COVID was successful on
(08:14):
so many platforms for the propagandists because they've they've got
the entire country. And we're still we're starting to awaken
from that, but we're still very very much across the board,
people are afraid to voice their opinion for fear of
(08:35):
being rejected, for being thrown out of the group and
not picked for the next volleyball game. They're they're very
afraid of that. I mean, the whole transgender thing was
a very specific little clique where everybody could say, raise
their hand and say, well, my child's going through through
(08:56):
gender therapy and all this other stuff. Look at me,
rob raw raw. And it is such a very very
small group. But you know it, if somebody voiced an
opinion that said, ah, boloney, biology is biology. When that
child is born, it's male or it's female. Period, there
(09:20):
is no biological debate. Although COVID got the and this
whole transgender thing got all of the National Pediatric Society
all up in arms, they couldn't even make a damn
decision for God's sake, right, And you know, I don't
know about you, but when my daughter was born, I knew,
(09:41):
damn good and wells that was my daughter, you know,
you know, And so I think that's part of it. Jeff.
I think people are just afraid to talk because I
think the propagandists have been so successful in squshing differences
(10:02):
of opinion for fear of being canceled, for being an outcast,
and they they've made that just like with being called
a racist, they've made that stick pretty badly on people,
you know. And it's and I think that may be
part of the problem, Jeff, is you know, people, people
will not engein. You will never hear another who was
(10:24):
at Buckley and Buckley debate like you would hear back
when I was a kid and listening to like firing
line or something like that. You will not hear that anymore. Ever,
I don't think, well.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Well, so here's here's the thing. I think.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
I think it's it's even maybe a little bit even
more sinister than what could beat out because what's happening
is there's been this push of what we call like
identity politics, right, but when you get down to the
psychology of that, what's happened is that you know, the politicians,
the powers that be, and this has now happened in
virtually again every sphere of influence is they've gotten down
(11:03):
to you and your identity and and and that that
can that can apply to so many different levels. You know,
for me growing up, and I'm writing about this in
in my book Following the Leader that were that's still
pre ordering, so it's still coming down down the pipeline.
But I'm writing through this because like I found my
identity growing up in in one particular evangelical pastor. So
(11:25):
so it was about what does this pastor say? And
then everything that I thought about truth or the Bible
or theology or belief or or application or anything had
to do with what did that pastor say. And if
somebody disagree with that pastor, well clearly they don't study
the Bible as much as this pastor. And you begin
to find your identity as you know, being a you know,
John macarthurite or a John Piper person or identify with
(11:47):
this pastor or this pastor or this pastor, and you know,
and this applies to politics, it applies to transgenderism. That
that that's where what ends up happening is you try
to have conversations with people and if you challenge them.
You're not just challenging the belief system. And this is
where I think a lot of people really mess up
in conversations. You're not just challenging their belief system. You're
challenging their very identity. You're challenging who they are and
(12:11):
who they view themselves as. So and this applies to
the transgender debate, it applies to LGBTQ, it applies to DEMO,
It applies to Democrat and Republican today. It applies to magat,
it applies to which political candidate are you supporting? If
you disagree with them, then all of a sudden, you
are challenging their very reality, their identity. And that's a
(12:34):
problem where if you go back fifty years or forty
years into history and you look at it, there wasn't
that same kind of identity that we have today and
to where people could debate and they could discuss because
when you disagreed with somebody, you weren't challenging their very reality.
You were just challenging a difference of opinion. And we
can't have those conversations because anytime you disagree with somebody,
(12:55):
you are challenging their identity. And if they admit that
they're wrong and you're right, or vice versa. That what
you're actually doing is you're getting them to have to
admit that their entire reality was based on a lie.
And that's why I think a lot of people are
not willing to admit about, you know, all the craziness
about COVID is because when you think about it, they
(13:16):
gave up so much in COVID in order to protect
people and slow the spread, and people lost businesses, they
lost homes, they lost jobs, they lost family, they lost friends,
you know, the whole gamut when you think about it.
And if we're coming in with the truth about COVID
nineteen and vaccines and all that, we're now challenging the
fact that, look, for three or four years, they got jabbed,
(13:38):
they were masked, they were social distancing, they didn't go
to Gramma's funeral, they didn't go to a wedding, they
didn't spend time with famis now everything that they sacrificed
was for nothing, and so we have to get into
that kind of mindset to understand why there's so much
pushback when we come to them with the truth.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Oh yeah, no, I agree, And I think your point.
Your point is well made about fifty years ago. I
think we had a much stronger sense of who we
are because that's what we got from our parents, right,
And and that particular paradigm has has gone through since
(14:16):
the early sixties, has gone through, you know, just gone downhill, right,
because ever since, ever since Betty Frieden decided that women
didn't need to be at home anymore and raised children,
and because that was horrible, and and and now of course,
(14:36):
you know, fathers are ridiculed and made fun of every
every night on national television and everything else. So they've
they've they've been very successful in destroying the male influence.
And it's much to the detriment of the entire social
fabric of our country and I think probably of the
(14:59):
world to to just stretch it even further. You know,
it's not good, and I I struggle sometimes trying to
understand how to how to start fixing it. I think
things like what we're doing is part of that. But
(15:19):
you know, it's kind of like a grain of sand,
if you will it, it's it doesn't have it doesn't
have a lot of impact unless there's a whole lot
of it.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
Right, Yeah, Well, and this this is where you know,
because I've been thinking a lot, a lot about that
because I had a lot of conversations with a lot
of my friends and one of a many, Mindy Robinson.
She's a really good friend of mine. She's she's great,
and uh, it's funny. We go on each other's shows
and we'll try to challenge each other and who can
come up with the craziest conspiracy theory that can that
we can prove it's true, and you know, try to
(15:49):
you know, blow each other's minds on that one. But
but it's interesting because you know, she and I have
had this conversation where where it's like, okay, so we
know the truth and we can talk to we can
talk about it in our own little outgriith bubbles of
people that agree with us, and we're preaching to require
how do we get the information to the masses? How
do we get the information out of our algorithm bubble?
And she's like, do I have to rent an airplane
(16:10):
and just drop flyers over Los Angeles?
Speaker 3 (16:12):
And just you know that that sort of like what
do we have to do?
Speaker 4 (16:15):
And the thing that I keep telling everybody is, don't
think about how do we get to the masses? Is
if we could get a large group of conservative minded
Christians fill in the blank. People that believe in the truth.
Go have actual, legitimate conversations with the people in your circle,
and don't shy away from those conversations. The one on
(16:36):
one that's where you're gonna change minds probably not gonna
happen as much. Listen to podcasts. So when you're doing
podcasts and conversations, that view those as equipping people in
your own algorithmic camps in order to then go send
out into the world with the truth. But I've been
able to change so many minds. And again, I live
in communist California. And this is not to toot my
(16:56):
own horn because it's not about me at all. But
what I do is I don't shy away from conversations,
and then I ask pointed questions, maybe drop a piece
of a piece of like a factor a truth or
something like that, ask a question that forced them to
rationalize their opinion based upon that information. And a perfect
example is I got so many people right. Again, I mean,
(17:17):
California is surrounded by lefties. Everybody around me was jab
dub got COVID vaccines like the whole deal, And what's
interesting is is like literally they're like.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Well, Jeff, how could you not get vack? How could
you not do this?
Speaker 4 (17:29):
Well, I'm like, okay, well, can you pull up the
FDA approval letter of the cuminadi. Okay, yeah, this this
is the actual study here. I can show it to
you right now where they only tested it for seven
days after after injection and you're not even considered vaccinated
until fourteen days. So what actually happened here? And it
also says that they kept track of how many people
you know died over the course of the study, but
they didn't include it in the results because they said
(17:50):
it wasn't pertinent to the information. And then if you
look at the numbers, and I'll pull up my calculator,
here's the numbers. Didn't matter whether you're vaccinated or unvaccinated,
you I had a more than ninety nine percent chance
of not getting COVID nineteen. So then it's like, okay,
so now here's the facts. Now what do we do
with this information?
Speaker 3 (18:09):
How do you.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
Rationalize this based upon these facts? And then I take
a step back and I shut up and be quiet.
And the one thing I learned doing sales for business
is the first person who speaks loses, so you shut up,
and you can see the wheels in their mind turning
and they're trying to figure out, how do I rationalize
the fact that you're bad because you didn't get the
job when I'm faced with this information that's in the
(18:32):
FDA approval letter. And if we can have more conversations
like that, I think that we could actually begin to
gain some traction. But it's not the glorious, attractive, big
tent revivals whatever. It's one on one conversations with people
where you force people to rationalize their opinions.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Yeah, it's going to have to be, I think, Jeff,
because they've done such a good job of concentrating the
media and the and the whole propaganda mechanism. They've I
mean they've they've literally collapsed the media down where you
have like six CEOs and a couple one hundred executives
(19:12):
controlling everything that the consuming public here sees, reads, dreams about,
listens to whatever. By just a handful of people. You're
literally controlling three hundred and fifty million people, right, So
with that said, can you can and I've done this,
(19:37):
I've literally laid the study you're talking about down on
the table to have that conversation, well where did this
come from? While I printed it right out of the
government website. No, because people now have so so much
distrust that producing and bringing the truth and laying the
(20:01):
truth down in front of them is almost a as
much of a struggle as it is getting them to
listen to it, because you know, they automatically reject it.
There's been so much you know, the sky is falling
crap that you know, it's just like climate the climate
(20:24):
change knuckleheads, right, you know, it's it's finally gotten to
the point where most people, most people look at it like,
you know what it was to begin with, but they've
gone through several decades of this crap and they just
they're not believing anything, right, So, you know, I think
(20:44):
there's there's a twofold challenge. There's a challenge. Number one
is just to get people to stop and to listen
and not formulate a response until you're done talking. That's
number one, because people have gotten to the point where
they're is no active listening anymore. There's active responses, but
(21:04):
there is no active listening. People don't listen, So and
I think we can blame technology for that, because you know,
trying to decipher an email, whether it's a nasty email
or a positive email because somebody uses caps in their
email response. You know, you know what I'm talking about.
(21:26):
It's it's it's crazy with what people have been subjected to,
and maybe it's unfair for me to sit here and think,
you know that they're unresponsive because you know they've been
conditioned as such.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Right, Yeah, it's it's.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
Been a lifelong conditioning when you think about I mean
even the even the education system, the education system from
preschool on up is trust the experts. Trust, trust your teacher,
trust the textbook. And they're the experts. You don't question,
You fall in line. You see, if they tell you
to do something, you say yes, ma'am, you know, and
you just you just do what they say. They're the
ones that set the schedule, they're the ones that give
(22:08):
you the rewards, they're the ones that they give you, guys,
the punishments. And it's basically training you to be an
employee and or a reliant upon the government.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
I think that.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
Specifically when it comes to having having these kinds of
conversations because because I think, I think, again, this this
is our to me, really our only opportunity to actually
save this country is going to be on the much
more personal, face to face kind of conversations.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Right.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
But but I think the thing is that what we
what we have to remember ourselves is the pressure isn't
on us to quote unquote convince them. And and and
I always, I always liken this to evangelism with with
within Christianity. Our job is not to save the lost.
Our job is to share the Gospel with them. Our
job is to get the truth in front of them,
(22:51):
and then the Holy Spirit may or may not open
their hearts. The Holy Spirit that that's the Holy spirit job.
My job is to get them the information and then
I know, obviously I'm gonna try to do everything I
can and compel them and bring them about and all that.
But the pressure's off of me. And that's been the
interesting thing. I've had a lot of people around me
because I've been I've been going really hardcore with all
of this since really since twenty twenty when, just like
(23:12):
a lot of people, you know, in the midst of COVID,
it starts you to do podcasts, you do shows, you
do everything, and they're like, how have you not burnt out.
I have so many friends that have burnt out in
this industry and they're just getting tired. They're getting so frustrated,
and it's I think the big difference though, is like
I'm like, I don't put pressure on myself. My job
is just to get the truth out there, have interesting conversations,
(23:34):
challenge the narratives, you know, and all of that, and
the pressure's off of me. Like there is zero pressure
on you as an individual to save the country. What
your job is just to do is to be obedient
and to do the right thing and to share the
truth and get that truth.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
You don't know.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
They may be very argumentative, and I've I've actually had
a few people come to me afterwards where you know,
it's very combative and I'm like, they weren't even listening
to the thing I said. They come back months later,
I was like, you know, I was thinking about that
one thing you said. You know, I've had that happen
a few times where in the moment you feel like,
what's the point I should just give up with this conversation.
I'm not getting anywhere. But you don't know what's going
(24:12):
through their mind, and you don't know what kind of
kind of deprogramming that they're going through after your conversation
when they're thinking about the after effects of it too.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Absolutely, So let's talk about your book. It hasn't come
out yet, right, correct, So why don't you give us,
you know, give us a lead into it of what
what you're doing with it?
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Yeah, for sure. So it's interesting.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
So in the book Church and State, which is a
group a group book project I put together a couple
of years ago, the chapter that I that I wrote
on that was on the evangelical culture personality. And in
that one, it's you know, how how do these you know,
megachurch pastors and all that basically manipulate you into being
a follower of them? You know obviously then you support them,
you support their ministry, you give them all your money,
(24:56):
like the whole deal. Okay, So so they're basically kind
of this little little mini cult within evangelicalism. So so
I wrote a chapter on that and then how the
left was using that in order to kind of, you know,
push people away from you know, traditional conservative values into
more Bernie Sanders AOC type rhetoric even within like the
Southern Baptist Convention and all that kind of stuff, and so,
you know, you know, there was certain you know, key,
(25:18):
you know, tactics that they would use in order to
manipulate you and push certain propaganda and worldviews and all that.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
And then I, you know, now being.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
In politics and more this political commentary and all that,
I realized, well, it's all the same tactics that they're
using in politics. And then it's it's all the same
thing that happened across the board in every sphere of influence.
And so I'm like, okay, so what's actually happening here?
So I do a deep dive into the cults. You
look at Jim Jones, Charles Manson, scientology, fill in the blank,
all the cults. They all use the same tactics, you know,
(25:46):
cancel culture, massive and massive in the in these cults,
you know, mind control propaganda.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
How do they get you? You know?
Speaker 4 (25:53):
And I always always say too, it's like, how does
you know a cult like scientology, right, how do they
get you to believe that aliens drop into the Pacific Ocean,
climb up the beach and then dwell human beings in
Los Angeles? And the reason why there's so many scientologists
in LA is because they're all dropping into the Pacific
Ocean right there, and they're closest to the epicenter of
(26:15):
where the aliens are dropping. It if you're evangelizing people
off the street and you're like, well, you know, you know,
there's aliens that are coming in off the Pacific Ocean
right here, they're not gonna believe you. How do they
get you from being a normal, everyday person off the
street to buying in, buying into some bogus bologny like that. Well,
you know, think about think about what's happened with COVID,
think about what's happened with all these different kinds of things.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
It's the exact same tactics. How do they get.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
Normal people, everyday people to believe the craziest, wildest things. Well,
you start looking at this, they all use the same tactics.
It's one little lie built on another little lie, built
on another lie, built on on another lie. And I'm
looking at Okay, So, how did we get from the
colts doing this to the government doing this? Well, if
you look at these colts, they all a lot of them,
(27:01):
had a lot of them had ties with intelligence agencies.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Well that, yeah, I was gonna say that the intelligence agency,
the government's been doing this crap for years. I mean,
just go back to ken Kesey and you know the
introduction of LSD with the army and everything else. You know,
everybody everybody thought, you know, oh, well, somebody came up
with this in a little lab someplace in Mexico. No no, no, no, no, no, no
(27:26):
no no. Now this was built by the government, administered
by the government, so on and so forth. And you know,
it's funny you're talking about this because I've introduced people
to a gentleman by the name of Edward Burnez who
was basically the father of public relations, and he's the
one that basically got women to smoke every and just
(27:50):
countless other things. But on top of all of that,
he was the individual that Goebbels used read and brought
the German people along with Hitler for the Second World War.
So when you're talking about this, these individuals have all
been part of the Edward Burnetze, who I think was
(28:11):
the nephew of Freud somebody something like that. They've all
subscribed to that book, you know, that that manner of
manipulation and and have taken it to a much more
sophisticated level than he did back in the in the thirties. Right. So, this,
(28:31):
this this whole concept has been a long time in
the in the making, right They've they've been they've been
proofing this thing for quite some time, right, you know,
I think COVID was just a staging ground to see
where they were at currently with you know, how well
they could get people to walk off the end of
the pier. And they did a damn good job of it, right, So.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
Well, you know, and I think I think, I think
though two is is that you know, like what I
was talking about before about like your identity, I think
that that that's a big part of like the cults,
is that your identity is with that cult. And I
think that the same thing is happening, you know, in
politics and culture and society right now to where when
you think about it, people are changing their belief system
(29:15):
to align with their identity, to align with their political party,
or align with their group or political movements or things
like that. And that's what's that's what's concerning is that,
you know, like it's interesting because I've been doing a
lot of interviews lately about about you know, an op
ed that that I wrote about about Elon Musk. And
and every time that they'll they'll they'll introduce and they
(29:36):
may or may not have read the op ed, so
you know, you never know, you know, how much how
much they actually did you know, background research, but literally
Elon Musk just because a couple of weeks ago said
that he's using capitalism in order to you know, use
tesla and and and uh and so ai and optimist
robots and the whole deal in order to usher in
(29:56):
in his words, not my words, paraphrase, paraphrasing his words,
a communist utopia, like in his words, And you're just
sitting here and you're like, is nobody gonna freak out
about this kind of thing? And every single time you know,
you know, a host will introduce me, they're like, you know,
Ela Musk, you know he's uh, you know, champion for
free speech and all that kind I don't know, you're
with everything whatever. And I'm just sitting here and I'm like,
(30:16):
do you not did you not hear him like communist
utopia his words, that that's what he's trying to usher in,
And you're and nobody's like freaking out over over that
kind of stuff and he's getting government contracts and he's
close with the Trump administration.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
But because he's considered.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
One of ours, then all then all of a sudden,
it's like, well, we we don't, we don't. We don't
fight him, but we gotta fight Bernie Sanders. It's like, no,
like this is a major, major issue. But because of
the identity side of things and how people have allegiance
to him, because they feel like he saved our democracy
by you know, aligning with Trump and buying Twitter and
(30:51):
all that kind of stuff, all of a sudden, it's like, Okay, well,
you know, you know, we can't critique him too hard.
It's like, no, he's literally talking about taking away the
entire purpose of being a human being, making it to
where nobody is going to have a job in the future,
and his words, we're going to live in a communist utopia.
Like that should freak everybody out.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yeah, I should should, absolutely, So here's a good one.
How do we shift the paradigm?
Speaker 4 (31:17):
Jeff, Well, you know that that honestly, that's that's one
of the things I'm trying to do through Pickax, which
is my social media platform, is you know, and and
a lot of that too, is is that you know,
there's there's a lot of alternative social media platforms that
are out there. They're almost all you know, you know,
hardcore conservative maga, you know, Trump World, the whole deal.
I'm really targeting the center left to center right crowd
(31:39):
where we can actually have nuanced conversations and kind of
push each other and challenge each other and really and
it's kind of worked out because a lot of the
people that are attracted to it are the ones that
do like more long form content and like to have
conversations and enjoy disagreeing with each other and all of that.
And so that's one of the things that that you know,
it's basically kind of my life's mission now is to
(32:00):
foster these kinds of conversations. And I think and I
think that the way that we fix this country is
not through Washington, d C. It's not through our elected officials,
it's not through big conservative think tanks and all. It's no,
it's by we the people. And it's not always going
to be by you aligning with people that are one
hundred percent in agreement with you. It's going to be
(32:22):
with people where you have a commonality of let's say
the American values and the foundation of this country. I
can I can disagree with you on all sorts of
political issues, theological issues, and all that, but if we
can agree that our founding fathers establish this country with
one theological presupposition, which is that you are created in
(32:42):
the image of God. And because you're created in the
image of God, you have certain inalienable rights that are
God given that cannot be taken away by the government,
and those are enshrined in our Constitution and the Bill
of Rights and all that. If we can agree on that,
we can disagree on a whole host of other things.
But if we can agree on that and we stick
to those principles, that is how we save this country.
(33:03):
Because both Democrats and Republicans are off the rails when
it when it comes to, you know, those foundational values.
And so I agree, if we can bring our country
back together, it's going to be through conversations. It's going
to be by local communities. It's going to be not
through the traditional media route, which I think is what
everybody still tries to do. And I'm you, guys are
(33:24):
banging your head against the wall. You're not going to
get anywhere.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
No you're not, You're not going to it's you know,
I hate this term, but it's got to be a
grassroots kind of thing, you know it. Legacy media, corporate media,
whatever the hell you want to call them, are aren't
worth the aren't worth the paper you could wrap them
up in because they they they offer they offer no
(33:48):
truth anywhere. It's and that goes that goes for Fox
and and all the rest of them. They really offered
no no, no truth to anything that they're really saying.
And you know, I, like you, have had many, many
(34:09):
of the guests that are on Fox, I've had them
on my show as well, and it's it's interesting what
they say on my show versus what what little snippet
pieces or whatever that you get on the cable news.
And then and then obviously m S, NBC and CNN
and all the rest of them. They're they're they're really
(34:31):
they're really laughable in the way that they go about
disseminating information. And I think I agree with you. I
think it's going to be a grassroots kind of thing
where it's going to be. It's gonna be the conversations
that you have with with your friends while you're standing
(34:52):
waiting to go into church or coming out of church,
or waiting at the what at the restaurant, having conversation
with those, having conversations with your friends at football games
or whatever. And you know, and and you kind of have
to keep your wife from beaten on you because you know,
you're you're you're bringing up things that may upset people,
(35:15):
you know, kind of like the weird uncle Thanksgiving kind
of thing. But I agree with you. I think that's
the only way it's going to happen. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
Well, and also too, It's like, and the thing that
I keep reminding of people is when you have these conversations,
don't make it about the politician.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
Don't make it about how they.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
Vote, don't make don't make it about anything. Make it
about the worldview. Make it about your belief system.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Leave the you know.
Speaker 4 (35:38):
It's kind of like when when you're when you're when
you're you know, preaching or given a sermon or something
like that. Right, you want to you want to teach
the truth. You want obviously want to give some application.
Here's here's how you take this verse, and you applied
your life and all that kind of stuff. But a
lot of the application is actually your own interpretation of
how does how does this apply to me in my
specific situations?
Speaker 3 (35:56):
Right?
Speaker 4 (35:56):
And I and I think that you know, if we
if we can change the world view of people and
their belief system they're voting will obviously morph and change
over time. But you know, if we make it about
how they vote and who they support and which party
and this and that, you're never going to get anywhere
because you know, and again I live out here again,
out here in communist California, like, I'm never going to
(36:17):
get my Democrat friends to vote Republican, but I could
maybe get them to vote independent. I could maybe get
them to trend in this particular way. And I think
a perfect example of this was the recall election of
Gavin of Gavin Newsom last time around, where I had
so many Democrat friends that we're going to vote to
recall him, but Larry Elder was running on the Republican side,
(36:37):
and he was the leader on the Republican side, and
they're like, well, I don't want him because they saw
him as the representation of Donald Trump. And they're like,
we don't want Trump to be leading California. So they
would rather keep Gavin Newsom men than vote for Larry Elder. However,
if we ran an independent, we could have maybe we
could have maybe seen some ground there.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Yeah, no, I agree, Yeah, I don't discover anything in
terms of Democrat and Republican anymore. Like I said at
the beginning, it needs to shift to Biblical in its binary.
It's either it's either good or it's evil, and it
to me it is boiled down as simple as that,
and both parties, both parties are as as suspect in
(37:23):
my mind as as the next. And you know, I
harken back to I was reading some Jerry Spence stuff
the other day about his reformulation of the of the government,
and I almost have to agree with him that it
needs to be completely changed and reformulated to where we
(37:43):
turn over x amount of people in the government and
we don't have people in there until they're ninety five
years old, and you know, anyway anyway, but I agree,
I think I think the conversation needs to basically, you know,
carry itself forward and and and if you don't, if
(38:06):
you don't include you know, the Democrat and the Republican
moniker on stuff, I think people would probably be a
little bit more receptive because, like you said, I think
they've got they They did not grow up independently. They
grew up identifying with you know, with a party, a
(38:30):
Hollywood person or or whatever it was. They didn't grow
up with an independent view of who they were or
who they are, right. They associate it with who somebody
else is. And you know that in itself is a problem,
but it's it's part of the whole issue. So yeah, anyway,
(38:54):
it's been terrific talking to you. Yeah, we've been we've
been talking to Jeff Dornett. Who's when's the book coming out.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
I'm hoping. I'm hoping I can have it done by
it by the end of the year.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Okay. And the book is called Following the Leader and
your show your social media so people know where to
go pick.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
So so I do my show live on Tuesdays and
Thursdays at one o'clock Eastern.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
You guys can watch it on Rumble.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
I'm you know, I've got Dinnish just Susay is gonna
be coming on the show here soon. We're gonna discuss
the debate Tucker Carlson and all the craziness.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
That's going on there.
Speaker 4 (39:29):
But I've I've had, you know, a whole bunch of
amazing you know guests on the show. You guys can
check out, like doctor Boden was just on my show
and all that kind of stuff. But Tuesdays and Thursdays
on Rumble just look up the Jeff Dornick Show. But
the best place to find me, honestly is my social
media platform, which is Pickax.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
Just go to pickax dot com.
Speaker 4 (39:44):
You guys can sign up and there's already some amazing
people that are on there as well, like Children's Health Defense,
Vigilant Fox, doctor Boden, you know, people like that. But
if you guys follow me, you guys can also subscribe
to my email newsletter directly there through Pickax. So I've
completely switched over from substack over to Pickax. So that's
where I do all of my emails, some newsletters and
all that kind of stuffy too. So best place is
pickax dot com.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Great, well again, it's been terrific Jeff, and I'd like
to have you back on at some point in the
not too distant future.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
Let's make it happen, all right, Thanks Jeff.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Thank you, Thank you for listening. If you would like
to listen to more Clarity from Chaos shows on demand.
Go to Clarity from chaospodcast dot busfroute dot com, or
send Dave an email at info at clarityfrom Chaos dot
com for information on previous shows. You can also listen
(40:34):
to the show on Apple Podcast, Spotify, Twitter, or Google Podcast.
Until next time, please remember it's not about waiting for
the storm to pass. It's about learning to dance in
the rain. Be well everyone,
Live from the Clarity from Chaos Studios heard worldwide. It's
Dave Campbell. On free episode. Dave and his guest explore, discuss,
and work on solutions to some of life's biggest challenges.
So if you're ready, be prepared to be enlightened, amused,
and even shocked by what you hear. And now the real,
(00:35):
the authentic, the one and only Dave Campbell.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Welcome everyone, I'm your host, Dave Campbell, and you are
listening to Clarity from Chaos. If you're new to the
show and you like what we're doing here, take a
moment go out to my website on substack. The side
address is https forward slash forward slash Clarity from Chaos
dot substance. There you can listen to the archives shows
(01:02):
that I've done, see the upcoming guests, and if you like,
support the show by clicking the subscribe button. Ladies and gentlemen,
we stand on the precipice. Members of Congress are asking
our military now to refuse unlawful orders without providing any
kind of examples. A continuous rise in violent protests, and
(01:23):
a political system that is no more than kabuki theater.
We have activist judges acting as president and no one
is holding anyone accountable for their actions. It's no wonder
the electorate has lost their trust and patience with our system.
Hope is disappearing. We need to stop thinking in terms
(01:45):
of Democrat and Republican his adversaries, and we need to
begin thinking more biblical. We need to bring the Church
and the Bible into our lives, and we need to
defeat this threat spiritually. And we need to elect better representation,
individuals who answer to a higher authority and not the
puppet masters they answer to today. Our guest on this
(02:08):
edition of Clarity is not a newcomer to battling the
evil propaganda heaped upon us by the corporate media are
politicians and social media. He is the founder, president and
CEO of Pickaxe, a groundbreaking social media platform, and the
author of Following the Leader. Mister Jeff Dornick, Welcome to
(02:29):
the show. Jeff, thanks for having me on. Been looking
forward to chat with you before we get going on
everything in your book. I'd like your thoughts on the
rise of the DSA in this country because I think
since the Obama administration, I think has been put on steroids,
(02:51):
and I think everything that we're seeing the rewriting of history,
the rise of the whole term of racism, the attack
on the church, the attack on the Fan family, all
of it's right out of the Marxist playbook, and it
just seems like we're losing ground against it.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Jeff, Yeah, no, I I agree.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
And it's it's interesting because a few years ago, I
actually I put together kind of like two back to
back group project books. One was called Social Injustice and
the other one was called Church and State. And in
Church and State that we were looking specifically at the
strategy of infiltration by these cultural Marxists and leftists, but
specifically into the evangelical church, and we looked at how
they how they dope into the seminaries, how they how
(03:31):
they hijack that, and they're influencing people through conferences and
celebrity worship and all that kind of stuff. It's really
and it's really interesting because they're using the exact same
tactics in every single sphere of influence, whether you're talking
about education or you're talking about the church, are you
talking about politics or political parties. And that's one of
my concerns and that's why I'm you know, I loved
your opening monologue was because it's not about Democrat versus Republican.
(03:54):
This is this is about right versus wrong, this is
about good versus evil, this is about God versus Satan.
There's there's there's so many ways to put it. But
it's not about Democrat versus Republican. And that's the thing
that I think. I think a lot of people think, like, oh,
conservative liberal means Republican Democrat. It's like, well, no, that's not.
Actually what that means is not what this fight is about.
(04:14):
It's about truth and error, it's about right and wrong.
It's about the future of humanity. And I'm really concerned
with the trajectory that we're heading in because it doesn't
matter what political party you're looking at, it seems like
they're both hurtling us over the cliff.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yeah, And if anybody would disagree with that, I would
I would offer up the explanation of you had Elon
Musk and his team come in and do the whole
Doge thing at the beginning of the Trump campaign and
uncover and show the waste and abuse and everything else
that our government is today, and Congress as yet has
(04:55):
codified any of that work. Which tells me that they've
got their hands in the same damn cookie jar that
the Democrats. So there really is no difference other than
reaching into the primordial pool and pulling out somebody and
saying you're a Democrat and reaching your hand back into
(05:16):
the same bucket and pulling out and say you're a Republican,
because there is no real differentiation if I if I'm
looking at it right now. So it's really come down
to being just binary good and evil. And I think people,
and it was so tragic with Charlie. I think people.
(05:38):
I think Charlie's death and that's Charlie Kirk. For those
who don't know what I'm talking about, I think Charlie's
death may be the tipping point or the start of
the tipping point for the public to start understanding what
we're talking about.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
No, it's a good point because because I think no
matter which way you look at it, it feels like
that moment that that happened, there was a change in
our country. This is that's when you saw you begin
you begin to see the Republican Party infighting in a
way that we haven't had in fighting before. It's when
we're we're we started turning on each other. And I
(06:15):
think a lot of it is because you know, when
you think about it, like Charlie Kirk was one of
those guys that that was very unifying and he would
bring to he would bring different people together with differing
opinions and viewpoints and okay, cool, we disagree, let's let's debate,
let's talk about it, let's discuss, let's let's dive into
this kind of thing. And then now all of a sudden,
you have all that, you have, all these people that
now that you don't have that unifying factor of somebody
(06:36):
like Charlie Kirk where it's just like now they're left
to their own devices. There is there is nobody to
unify anymore. And that that's my that's my big thing,
especially you know, for me running a social media platform,
and I'm trying to figure out, how do we get
people to talk to each other again, how do we
how do we get people to disagree with each other again?
And guess what, it's okay, it's okay to dive to
(06:58):
have differences of opinion so like, and it's really interesting
because I've been I've been trying to moderate a debate
between specifically within Christian pastors about replacement theology versus versus Zionism,
and because because I can poke holes in both arguments
and I find agreement with both arguments in different ways,
and so I'm like, Okay, let's actually let's actually duke
(07:18):
this out. I can't find anybody. And it's really weird
because this is more the side that I would find
myself aligned with in general theologically and historically. I can't
find any Zionist pastor that will actually go come into
a debate against the replacement theology guy because they're like, oh,
we don't want to give them credibility when I do that.
And I'm just sitting here and I'm like, the apostle
Paul would go into false, idle temples and talk to
(07:41):
false prophets and debate them and stuff. And you can't
debate a guy over replacement theology, Like what is happening
right now?
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Right you don't? You know? And it's interesting. The church
I go to, we have we have a couple of
authors that are apologists that are extremely extremely well Verse ten.
They would enter any kind of discussion like that. But
if you look across the spectrum, the broad spectrum of
the church. They've all you know, COVID was successful on
(08:14):
so many platforms for the propagandists because they've they've got
the entire country. And we're still we're starting to awaken
from that, but we're still very very much across the board,
people are afraid to voice their opinion for fear of
(08:35):
being rejected, for being thrown out of the group and
not picked for the next volleyball game. They're they're very
afraid of that. I mean, the whole transgender thing was
a very specific little clique where everybody could say, raise
their hand and say, well, my child's going through through
(08:56):
gender therapy and all this other stuff. Look at me,
rob raw raw. And it is such a very very
small group. But you know it, if somebody voiced an
opinion that said, ah, boloney, biology is biology. When that
child is born, it's male or it's female. Period, there
(09:20):
is no biological debate. Although COVID got the and this
whole transgender thing got all of the National Pediatric Society
all up in arms, they couldn't even make a damn
decision for God's sake, right, And you know, I don't
know about you, but when my daughter was born, I knew,
(09:41):
damn good and wells that was my daughter, you know,
you know, And so I think that's part of it. Jeff.
I think people are just afraid to talk because I
think the propagandists have been so successful in squshing differences
(10:02):
of opinion for fear of being canceled, for being an outcast,
and they they've made that just like with being called
a racist, they've made that stick pretty badly on people,
you know. And it's and I think that may be
part of the problem, Jeff, is you know, people, people
will not engein. You will never hear another who was
(10:24):
at Buckley and Buckley debate like you would hear back
when I was a kid and listening to like firing
line or something like that. You will not hear that anymore. Ever,
I don't think, well.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Well, so here's here's the thing. I think.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
I think it's it's even maybe a little bit even
more sinister than what could beat out because what's happening
is there's been this push of what we call like
identity politics, right, but when you get down to the
psychology of that, what's happened is that you know, the politicians,
the powers that be, and this has now happened in
virtually again every sphere of influence is they've gotten down
(11:03):
to you and your identity and and and that that
can that can apply to so many different levels. You know,
for me growing up, and I'm writing about this in
in my book Following the Leader that were that's still
pre ordering, so it's still coming down down the pipeline.
But I'm writing through this because like I found my
identity growing up in in one particular evangelical pastor. So
(11:25):
so it was about what does this pastor say? And
then everything that I thought about truth or the Bible
or theology or belief or or application or anything had
to do with what did that pastor say. And if
somebody disagree with that pastor, well clearly they don't study
the Bible as much as this pastor. And you begin
to find your identity as you know, being a you know,
John macarthurite or a John Piper person or identify with
(11:47):
this pastor or this pastor or this pastor, and you know,
and this applies to politics, it applies to transgenderism. That
that that's where what ends up happening is you try
to have conversations with people and if you challenge them.
You're not just challenging the belief system. And this is
where I think a lot of people really mess up
in conversations. You're not just challenging their belief system. You're
challenging their very identity. You're challenging who they are and
(12:11):
who they view themselves as. So and this applies to
the transgender debate, it applies to LGBTQ, it applies to DEMO,
It applies to Democrat and Republican today. It applies to magat,
it applies to which political candidate are you supporting? If
you disagree with them, then all of a sudden, you
are challenging their very reality, their identity. And that's a
(12:34):
problem where if you go back fifty years or forty
years into history and you look at it, there wasn't
that same kind of identity that we have today and
to where people could debate and they could discuss because
when you disagreed with somebody, you weren't challenging their very reality.
You were just challenging a difference of opinion. And we
can't have those conversations because anytime you disagree with somebody,
(12:55):
you are challenging their identity. And if they admit that
they're wrong and you're right, or vice versa. That what
you're actually doing is you're getting them to have to
admit that their entire reality was based on a lie.
And that's why I think a lot of people are
not willing to admit about, you know, all the craziness
about COVID is because when you think about it, they
(13:16):
gave up so much in COVID in order to protect
people and slow the spread, and people lost businesses, they
lost homes, they lost jobs, they lost family, they lost friends,
you know, the whole gamut when you think about it.
And if we're coming in with the truth about COVID
nineteen and vaccines and all that, we're now challenging the
fact that, look, for three or four years, they got jabbed,
(13:38):
they were masked, they were social distancing, they didn't go
to Gramma's funeral, they didn't go to a wedding, they
didn't spend time with famis now everything that they sacrificed
was for nothing, and so we have to get into
that kind of mindset to understand why there's so much
pushback when we come to them with the truth.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Oh yeah, no, I agree, And I think your point.
Your point is well made about fifty years ago. I
think we had a much stronger sense of who we
are because that's what we got from our parents, right,
And and that particular paradigm has has gone through since
(14:16):
the early sixties, has gone through, you know, just gone downhill, right,
because ever since, ever since Betty Frieden decided that women
didn't need to be at home anymore and raised children,
and because that was horrible, and and and now of course,
(14:36):
you know, fathers are ridiculed and made fun of every
every night on national television and everything else. So they've
they've they've been very successful in destroying the male influence.
And it's much to the detriment of the entire social
fabric of our country and I think probably of the
(14:59):
world to to just stretch it even further. You know,
it's not good, and I I struggle sometimes trying to
understand how to how to start fixing it. I think
things like what we're doing is part of that. But
(15:19):
you know, it's kind of like a grain of sand,
if you will it, it's it doesn't have it doesn't
have a lot of impact unless there's a whole lot
of it.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
Right, Yeah, Well, and this this is where you know,
because I've been thinking a lot, a lot about that
because I had a lot of conversations with a lot
of my friends and one of a many, Mindy Robinson.
She's a really good friend of mine. She's she's great,
and uh, it's funny. We go on each other's shows
and we'll try to challenge each other and who can
come up with the craziest conspiracy theory that can that
we can prove it's true, and you know, try to
(15:49):
you know, blow each other's minds on that one. But
but it's interesting because you know, she and I have
had this conversation where where it's like, okay, so we
know the truth and we can talk to we can
talk about it in our own little outgriith bubbles of
people that agree with us, and we're preaching to require
how do we get the information to the masses? How
do we get the information out of our algorithm bubble?
And she's like, do I have to rent an airplane
(16:10):
and just drop flyers over Los Angeles?
Speaker 3 (16:12):
And just you know that that sort of like what
do we have to do?
Speaker 4 (16:15):
And the thing that I keep telling everybody is, don't
think about how do we get to the masses? Is
if we could get a large group of conservative minded
Christians fill in the blank. People that believe in the truth.
Go have actual, legitimate conversations with the people in your circle,
and don't shy away from those conversations. The one on
(16:36):
one that's where you're gonna change minds probably not gonna
happen as much. Listen to podcasts. So when you're doing
podcasts and conversations, that view those as equipping people in
your own algorithmic camps in order to then go send
out into the world with the truth. But I've been
able to change so many minds. And again, I live
in communist California. And this is not to toot my
(16:56):
own horn because it's not about me at all. But
what I do is I don't shy away from conversations,
and then I ask pointed questions, maybe drop a piece
of a piece of like a factor a truth or
something like that, ask a question that forced them to
rationalize their opinion based upon that information. And a perfect
example is I got so many people right. Again, I mean,
(17:17):
California is surrounded by lefties. Everybody around me was jab
dub got COVID vaccines like the whole deal, And what's
interesting is is like literally they're like.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Well, Jeff, how could you not get vack? How could
you not do this?
Speaker 4 (17:29):
Well, I'm like, okay, well, can you pull up the
FDA approval letter of the cuminadi. Okay, yeah, this this
is the actual study here. I can show it to
you right now where they only tested it for seven
days after after injection and you're not even considered vaccinated
until fourteen days. So what actually happened here? And it
also says that they kept track of how many people
you know died over the course of the study, but
they didn't include it in the results because they said
(17:50):
it wasn't pertinent to the information. And then if you
look at the numbers, and I'll pull up my calculator,
here's the numbers. Didn't matter whether you're vaccinated or unvaccinated,
you I had a more than ninety nine percent chance
of not getting COVID nineteen. So then it's like, okay,
so now here's the facts. Now what do we do
with this information?
Speaker 3 (18:09):
How do you.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
Rationalize this based upon these facts? And then I take
a step back and I shut up and be quiet.
And the one thing I learned doing sales for business
is the first person who speaks loses, so you shut up,
and you can see the wheels in their mind turning
and they're trying to figure out, how do I rationalize
the fact that you're bad because you didn't get the
job when I'm faced with this information that's in the
(18:32):
FDA approval letter. And if we can have more conversations
like that, I think that we could actually begin to
gain some traction. But it's not the glorious, attractive, big
tent revivals whatever. It's one on one conversations with people
where you force people to rationalize their opinions.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Yeah, it's going to have to be, I think, Jeff,
because they've done such a good job of concentrating the
media and the and the whole propaganda mechanism. They've I
mean they've they've literally collapsed the media down where you
have like six CEOs and a couple one hundred executives
(19:12):
controlling everything that the consuming public here sees, reads, dreams about,
listens to whatever. By just a handful of people. You're
literally controlling three hundred and fifty million people, right, So
with that said, can you can and I've done this,
(19:37):
I've literally laid the study you're talking about down on
the table to have that conversation, well where did this
come from? While I printed it right out of the
government website. No, because people now have so so much
distrust that producing and bringing the truth and laying the
(20:01):
truth down in front of them is almost a as
much of a struggle as it is getting them to
listen to it, because you know, they automatically reject it.
There's been so much you know, the sky is falling
crap that you know, it's just like climate the climate
(20:24):
change knuckleheads, right, you know, it's it's finally gotten to
the point where most people, most people look at it like,
you know what it was to begin with, but they've
gone through several decades of this crap and they just
they're not believing anything, right, So, you know, I think
(20:44):
there's there's a twofold challenge. There's a challenge. Number one
is just to get people to stop and to listen
and not formulate a response until you're done talking. That's
number one, because people have gotten to the point where
they're is no active listening anymore. There's active responses, but
(21:04):
there is no active listening. People don't listen, So and
I think we can blame technology for that, because you know,
trying to decipher an email, whether it's a nasty email
or a positive email because somebody uses caps in their
email response. You know, you know what I'm talking about.
(21:26):
It's it's it's crazy with what people have been subjected to,
and maybe it's unfair for me to sit here and think,
you know that they're unresponsive because you know they've been
conditioned as such.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Right, Yeah, it's it's.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
Been a lifelong conditioning when you think about I mean
even the even the education system, the education system from
preschool on up is trust the experts. Trust, trust your teacher,
trust the textbook. And they're the experts. You don't question,
You fall in line. You see, if they tell you
to do something, you say yes, ma'am, you know, and
you just you just do what they say. They're the
ones that set the schedule, they're the ones that give
(22:08):
you the rewards, they're the ones that they give you, guys,
the punishments. And it's basically training you to be an
employee and or a reliant upon the government.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
I think that.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
Specifically when it comes to having having these kinds of
conversations because because I think, I think, again, this this
is our to me, really our only opportunity to actually
save this country is going to be on the much
more personal, face to face kind of conversations.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Right.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
But but I think the thing is that what we
what we have to remember ourselves is the pressure isn't
on us to quote unquote convince them. And and and
I always, I always liken this to evangelism with with
within Christianity. Our job is not to save the lost.
Our job is to share the Gospel with them. Our
job is to get the truth in front of them,
(22:51):
and then the Holy Spirit may or may not open
their hearts. The Holy Spirit that that's the Holy spirit job.
My job is to get them the information and then
I know, obviously I'm gonna try to do everything I
can and compel them and bring them about and all that.
But the pressure's off of me. And that's been the
interesting thing. I've had a lot of people around me
because I've been I've been going really hardcore with all
of this since really since twenty twenty when, just like
(23:12):
a lot of people, you know, in the midst of COVID,
it starts you to do podcasts, you do shows, you
do everything, and they're like, how have you not burnt out.
I have so many friends that have burnt out in
this industry and they're just getting tired. They're getting so frustrated,
and it's I think the big difference though, is like
I'm like, I don't put pressure on myself. My job
is just to get the truth out there, have interesting conversations,
(23:34):
challenge the narratives, you know, and all of that, and
the pressure's off of me. Like there is zero pressure
on you as an individual to save the country. What
your job is just to do is to be obedient
and to do the right thing and to share the
truth and get that truth.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
You don't know.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
They may be very argumentative, and I've I've actually had
a few people come to me afterwards where you know,
it's very combative and I'm like, they weren't even listening
to the thing I said. They come back months later,
I was like, you know, I was thinking about that
one thing you said. You know, I've had that happen
a few times where in the moment you feel like,
what's the point I should just give up with this conversation.
I'm not getting anywhere. But you don't know what's going
(24:12):
through their mind, and you don't know what kind of
kind of deprogramming that they're going through after your conversation
when they're thinking about the after effects of it too.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Absolutely, So let's talk about your book. It hasn't come
out yet, right, correct, So why don't you give us,
you know, give us a lead into it of what
what you're doing with it?
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Yeah, for sure. So it's interesting.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
So in the book Church and State, which is a
group a group book project I put together a couple
of years ago, the chapter that I that I wrote
on that was on the evangelical culture personality. And in
that one, it's you know, how how do these you know,
megachurch pastors and all that basically manipulate you into being
a follower of them? You know obviously then you support them,
you support their ministry, you give them all your money,
(24:56):
like the whole deal. Okay, So so they're basically kind
of this little little mini cult within evangelicalism. So so
I wrote a chapter on that and then how the
left was using that in order to kind of, you know,
push people away from you know, traditional conservative values into
more Bernie Sanders AOC type rhetoric even within like the
Southern Baptist Convention and all that kind of stuff, and so,
you know, you know, there was certain you know, key,
(25:18):
you know, tactics that they would use in order to
manipulate you and push certain propaganda and worldviews and all that.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
And then I, you know, now being.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
In politics and more this political commentary and all that,
I realized, well, it's all the same tactics that they're
using in politics. And then it's it's all the same
thing that happened across the board in every sphere of influence.
And so I'm like, okay, so what's actually happening here?
So I do a deep dive into the cults. You
look at Jim Jones, Charles Manson, scientology, fill in the blank,
all the cults. They all use the same tactics, you know,
(25:46):
cancel culture, massive and massive in the in these cults,
you know, mind control propaganda.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
How do they get you? You know?
Speaker 4 (25:53):
And I always always say too, it's like, how does
you know a cult like scientology, right, how do they
get you to believe that aliens drop into the Pacific Ocean,
climb up the beach and then dwell human beings in
Los Angeles? And the reason why there's so many scientologists
in LA is because they're all dropping into the Pacific
Ocean right there, and they're closest to the epicenter of
(26:15):
where the aliens are dropping. It if you're evangelizing people
off the street and you're like, well, you know, you know,
there's aliens that are coming in off the Pacific Ocean
right here, they're not gonna believe you. How do they
get you from being a normal, everyday person off the
street to buying in, buying into some bogus bologny like that. Well,
you know, think about think about what's happened with COVID,
think about what's happened with all these different kinds of things.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
It's the exact same tactics. How do they get.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
Normal people, everyday people to believe the craziest, wildest things. Well,
you start looking at this, they all use the same tactics.
It's one little lie built on another little lie, built
on another lie, built on on another lie. And I'm
looking at Okay, So, how did we get from the
colts doing this to the government doing this? Well, if
you look at these colts, they all a lot of them,
(27:01):
had a lot of them had ties with intelligence agencies.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Well that, yeah, I was gonna say that the intelligence agency,
the government's been doing this crap for years. I mean,
just go back to ken Kesey and you know the
introduction of LSD with the army and everything else. You know,
everybody everybody thought, you know, oh, well, somebody came up
with this in a little lab someplace in Mexico. No no, no, no, no, no, no
(27:26):
no no. Now this was built by the government, administered
by the government, so on and so forth. And you know,
it's funny you're talking about this because I've introduced people
to a gentleman by the name of Edward Burnez who
was basically the father of public relations, and he's the
one that basically got women to smoke every and just
(27:50):
countless other things. But on top of all of that,
he was the individual that Goebbels used read and brought
the German people along with Hitler for the Second World War.
So when you're talking about this, these individuals have all
been part of the Edward Burnetze, who I think was
(28:11):
the nephew of Freud somebody something like that. They've all
subscribed to that book, you know, that that manner of
manipulation and and have taken it to a much more
sophisticated level than he did back in the in the thirties. Right. So, this,
(28:31):
this this whole concept has been a long time in
the in the making, right They've they've been they've been
proofing this thing for quite some time, right, you know,
I think COVID was just a staging ground to see
where they were at currently with you know, how well
they could get people to walk off the end of
the pier. And they did a damn good job of it, right, So.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
Well, you know, and I think I think, I think
though two is is that you know, like what I
was talking about before about like your identity, I think
that that that's a big part of like the cults,
is that your identity is with that cult. And I
think that the same thing is happening, you know, in
politics and culture and society right now to where when
you think about it, people are changing their belief system
(29:15):
to align with their identity, to align with their political party,
or align with their group or political movements or things
like that. And that's what's that's what's concerning is that,
you know, like it's interesting because I've been doing a
lot of interviews lately about about you know, an op
ed that that I wrote about about Elon Musk. And
and every time that they'll they'll they'll introduce and they
(29:36):
may or may not have read the op ed, so
you know, you never know, you know, how much how
much they actually did you know, background research, but literally
Elon Musk just because a couple of weeks ago said
that he's using capitalism in order to you know, use
tesla and and and uh and so ai and optimist
robots and the whole deal in order to usher in
(29:56):
in his words, not my words, paraphrase, paraphrasing his words,
a communist utopia, like in his words, And you're just
sitting here and you're like, is nobody gonna freak out
about this kind of thing? And every single time you know,
you know, a host will introduce me, they're like, you know,
Ela Musk, you know he's uh, you know, champion for
free speech and all that kind I don't know, you're
with everything whatever. And I'm just sitting here and I'm like,
(30:16):
do you not did you not hear him like communist
utopia his words, that that's what he's trying to usher in,
And you're and nobody's like freaking out over over that
kind of stuff and he's getting government contracts and he's
close with the Trump administration.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
But because he's considered.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
One of ours, then all then all of a sudden,
it's like, well, we we don't, we don't. We don't
fight him, but we gotta fight Bernie Sanders. It's like, no,
like this is a major, major issue. But because of
the identity side of things and how people have allegiance
to him, because they feel like he saved our democracy
by you know, aligning with Trump and buying Twitter and
(30:51):
all that kind of stuff, all of a sudden, it's like, Okay, well,
you know, you know, we can't critique him too hard.
It's like, no, he's literally talking about taking away the
entire purpose of being a human being, making it to
where nobody is going to have a job in the future,
and his words, we're going to live in a communist utopia.
Like that should freak everybody out.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yeah, I should should, absolutely, So here's a good one.
How do we shift the paradigm?
Speaker 4 (31:17):
Jeff, Well, you know that that honestly, that's that's one
of the things I'm trying to do through Pickax, which
is my social media platform, is you know, and and
a lot of that too, is is that you know,
there's there's a lot of alternative social media platforms that
are out there. They're almost all you know, you know,
hardcore conservative maga, you know, Trump World, the whole deal.
I'm really targeting the center left to center right crowd
(31:39):
where we can actually have nuanced conversations and kind of
push each other and challenge each other and really and
it's kind of worked out because a lot of the
people that are attracted to it are the ones that
do like more long form content and like to have
conversations and enjoy disagreeing with each other and all of that.
And so that's one of the things that that you know,
it's basically kind of my life's mission now is to
(32:00):
foster these kinds of conversations. And I think and I
think that the way that we fix this country is
not through Washington, d C. It's not through our elected officials,
it's not through big conservative think tanks and all. It's no,
it's by we the people. And it's not always going
to be by you aligning with people that are one
hundred percent in agreement with you. It's going to be
(32:22):
with people where you have a commonality of let's say
the American values and the foundation of this country. I
can I can disagree with you on all sorts of
political issues, theological issues, and all that, but if we
can agree that our founding fathers establish this country with
one theological presupposition, which is that you are created in
(32:42):
the image of God. And because you're created in the
image of God, you have certain inalienable rights that are
God given that cannot be taken away by the government,
and those are enshrined in our Constitution and the Bill
of Rights and all that. If we can agree on that,
we can disagree on a whole host of other things.
But if we can agree on that and we stick
to those principles, that is how we save this country.
(33:03):
Because both Democrats and Republicans are off the rails when
it when it comes to, you know, those foundational values.
And so I agree, if we can bring our country
back together, it's going to be through conversations. It's going
to be by local communities. It's going to be not
through the traditional media route, which I think is what
everybody still tries to do. And I'm you, guys are
(33:24):
banging your head against the wall. You're not going to
get anywhere.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
No you're not, You're not going to it's you know,
I hate this term, but it's got to be a
grassroots kind of thing, you know it. Legacy media, corporate media,
whatever the hell you want to call them, are aren't
worth the aren't worth the paper you could wrap them
up in because they they they offer they offer no
(33:48):
truth anywhere. It's and that goes that goes for Fox
and and all the rest of them. They really offered
no no, no truth to anything that they're really saying.
And you know, I, like you, have had many, many
(34:09):
of the guests that are on Fox, I've had them
on my show as well, and it's it's interesting what
they say on my show versus what what little snippet
pieces or whatever that you get on the cable news.
And then and then obviously m S, NBC and CNN
and all the rest of them. They're they're they're really
(34:31):
they're really laughable in the way that they go about
disseminating information. And I think I agree with you. I
think it's going to be a grassroots kind of thing
where it's going to be. It's gonna be the conversations
that you have with with your friends while you're standing
(34:52):
waiting to go into church or coming out of church,
or waiting at the what at the restaurant, having conversation
with those, having conversations with your friends at football games
or whatever. And you know, and and you kind of have
to keep your wife from beaten on you because you know,
you're you're you're bringing up things that may upset people,
(35:15):
you know, kind of like the weird uncle Thanksgiving kind
of thing. But I agree with you. I think that's
the only way it's going to happen. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
Well, and also too, It's like, and the thing that
I keep reminding of people is when you have these conversations,
don't make it about the politician.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
Don't make it about how they.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
Vote, don't make don't make it about anything. Make it
about the worldview. Make it about your belief system.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Leave the you know.
Speaker 4 (35:38):
It's kind of like when when you're when you're when
you're you know, preaching or given a sermon or something
like that. Right, you want to you want to teach
the truth. You want obviously want to give some application.
Here's here's how you take this verse, and you applied
your life and all that kind of stuff. But a
lot of the application is actually your own interpretation of
how does how does this apply to me in my
specific situations?
Speaker 3 (35:56):
Right?
Speaker 4 (35:56):
And I and I think that you know, if we
if we can change the world view of people and
their belief system they're voting will obviously morph and change
over time. But you know, if we make it about
how they vote and who they support and which party
and this and that, you're never going to get anywhere
because you know, and again I live out here again,
out here in communist California, like, I'm never going to
(36:17):
get my Democrat friends to vote Republican, but I could
maybe get them to vote independent. I could maybe get
them to trend in this particular way. And I think
a perfect example of this was the recall election of
Gavin of Gavin Newsom last time around, where I had
so many Democrat friends that we're going to vote to
recall him, but Larry Elder was running on the Republican side,
(36:37):
and he was the leader on the Republican side, and
they're like, well, I don't want him because they saw
him as the representation of Donald Trump. And they're like,
we don't want Trump to be leading California. So they
would rather keep Gavin Newsom men than vote for Larry Elder. However,
if we ran an independent, we could have maybe we
could have maybe seen some ground there.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Yeah, no, I agree, Yeah, I don't discover anything in
terms of Democrat and Republican anymore. Like I said at
the beginning, it needs to shift to Biblical in its binary.
It's either it's either good or it's evil, and it
to me it is boiled down as simple as that,
and both parties, both parties are as as suspect in
(37:23):
my mind as as the next. And you know, I
harken back to I was reading some Jerry Spence stuff
the other day about his reformulation of the of the government,
and I almost have to agree with him that it
needs to be completely changed and reformulated to where we
(37:43):
turn over x amount of people in the government and
we don't have people in there until they're ninety five
years old, and you know, anyway anyway, but I agree,
I think I think the conversation needs to basically, you know,
carry itself forward and and and if you don't, if
(38:06):
you don't include you know, the Democrat and the Republican
moniker on stuff, I think people would probably be a
little bit more receptive because, like you said, I think
they've got they They did not grow up independently. They
grew up identifying with you know, with a party, a
(38:30):
Hollywood person or or whatever it was. They didn't grow
up with an independent view of who they were or
who they are, right. They associate it with who somebody
else is. And you know that in itself is a problem,
but it's it's part of the whole issue. So yeah, anyway,
(38:54):
it's been terrific talking to you. Yeah, we've been we've
been talking to Jeff Dornett. Who's when's the book coming out.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
I'm hoping. I'm hoping I can have it done by
it by the end of the year.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Okay. And the book is called Following the Leader and
your show your social media so people know where to
go pick.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
So so I do my show live on Tuesdays and
Thursdays at one o'clock Eastern.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
You guys can watch it on Rumble.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
I'm you know, I've got Dinnish just Susay is gonna
be coming on the show here soon. We're gonna discuss
the debate Tucker Carlson and all the craziness.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
That's going on there.
Speaker 4 (39:29):
But I've I've had, you know, a whole bunch of
amazing you know guests on the show. You guys can
check out, like doctor Boden was just on my show
and all that kind of stuff. But Tuesdays and Thursdays
on Rumble just look up the Jeff Dornick Show. But
the best place to find me, honestly is my social
media platform, which is Pickax.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
Just go to pickax dot com.
Speaker 4 (39:44):
You guys can sign up and there's already some amazing
people that are on there as well, like Children's Health Defense,
Vigilant Fox, doctor Boden, you know, people like that. But
if you guys follow me, you guys can also subscribe
to my email newsletter directly there through Pickax. So I've
completely switched over from substack over to Pickax. So that's
where I do all of my emails, some newsletters and
all that kind of stuffy too. So best place is
pickax dot com.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Great, well again, it's been terrific Jeff, and I'd like
to have you back on at some point in the
not too distant future.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
Let's make it happen, all right, Thanks Jeff.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Thank you, Thank you for listening. If you would like
to listen to more Clarity from Chaos shows on demand.
Go to Clarity from chaospodcast dot busfroute dot com, or
send Dave an email at info at clarityfrom Chaos dot
com for information on previous shows. You can also listen
(40:34):
to the show on Apple Podcast, Spotify, Twitter, or Google Podcast.
Until next time, please remember it's not about waiting for
the storm to pass. It's about learning to dance in
the rain. Be well everyone,
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The Bobby Bones Show
Listen to 'The Bobby Bones Show' by downloading the daily full replay.