Should Rubio Revoke Visas for Celebrating Charlie Kirk’s Death? | Interview on The Jiggy Jaguar Show
October 29, 2025 • 27 mins
In this powerful conversation on The Jiggy Jaguar Program, I confront the deeper moral question behind Secretary of State Marco Rubio’s decision to revoke visas for non-citizens who celebrated the death of Charlie Kirk. This isn’t just a political move—it’s a reflection of how far a nation can drift when life itself loses sacred value. When the death of a man who stood for truth is met with applause, we must ask whether we’re witnessing justice or judgment. Has America reached the moment where our moral confusion demands divine correction?
Tune into The Jeff Dornik Show LIVE daily at 1pm ET. Subscribe on Rumble and never miss a show. https://rumble.com/c/jeffdornik
Subscribe to my Pickax account today and get my hard-hitting, uncensored email newsletter delivered straight to your inbox.https://pickax.com/jeffdornik
Big Tech is silencing truth while farming your data to feed the machine. That’s why I built Pickax… a free speech platform that puts power back in your hands and your voice beyond their reach. Sign up today:https://pickax.com/?referralCode=y7wxvwq&refSource=copy
Tune into The Jeff Dornik Show LIVE daily at 1pm ET. Subscribe on Rumble and never miss a show. https://rumble.com/c/jeffdornik
Subscribe to my Pickax account today and get my hard-hitting, uncensored email newsletter delivered straight to your inbox.https://pickax.com/jeffdornik
Big Tech is silencing truth while farming your data to feed the machine. That’s why I built Pickax… a free speech platform that puts power back in your hands and your voice beyond their reach. Sign up today:https://pickax.com/?referralCode=y7wxvwq&refSource=copy
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What judge down.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
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Speaker 3 (00:20):
I will have to say that that that intro is
very entertaining. Welcome to it. You are listening to the
world Face Jigi, Jaguar Radio Broadcast Coast Coast of Bone
and the ball are on iHeartRadio today fifty pass Amfi
stations across the country around the world, the Odyssey app,
which I just always find terribly entertaining that we are
on the Odyssey app. Also iHeartRadio twenty four to seven
(00:41):
over there at giggjaguater dot com. And of course you
can download our on demand archived audio because the radio
industry won't let us say the P word. You can
get that on iHeartRadio Talk Show all the various places,
and of course live on AMFM twenty four seven dot
coms Well, bitchhoot, rumble, all the berries. We have got
(01:04):
a great guest to joining us today. He is May's platform.
When we had a.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Guest on on this this.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Woman on who kept telling us about how you could
follow her on Pickaxe. She was promoting a crap out
of this and I'm like, what in the what in
the hell Bobby is a pick axe? And I did
some research and I found out and then I talked
(01:41):
to my buddy A J. Rice, and he hooked us
up with Jeff today. So, uh, Jeff, thanks for being
on the Big broadcast. How are you, sir?
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Doing really well? Thanks for having me. I've been looking
forward to chatting with you.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
So tell us about pick Axe.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yeah, definitely start there, babe, Yeah, totally.
Speaker 5 (01:58):
Well, you know, so we so it's a social media platform,
and I always say it's it's it's a social media platform.
Imagine you had X and substack had a baby with Rumble.
Integration is basically the best way to describe it. So
you so, you've got your typical social media stuff. The
nice thing is that we don't We don't do all
the algorithmic manipulation that you get on the other platform.
(02:19):
So if you earn an audience, they're actually going to
see your content. We're not going to get in between
you and your audience. And everything that we do is
trying to find another point for you to be able
to connect with the people that are following you, and
so you know, so you've got you can post, you
can write articles directly on the platform. You can post
your Rumble videos and they're playable in the news feed
as if they're native to the platform, and then you
(02:41):
know in there, but you could still monetize on your
Rumble videos as well, so you can kind of double
dip as well, because we'll have our own monetization that's
built into the platform, so you can monetize as a
content creator. A whole bunch of awesome things that we're
developing too, that's coming down the pipeline. But it to me,
the really big pitch for joining Pickax is just the
fact that, like, we're not going to manipulate your reach,
(03:03):
which is what's happening on all these other platforms. They're
artificially limiting your access to your audience. You know, you
feel like, hey, I earned an audience, whether it's five
hundred people, one thousand people, ten thousand, one hundred thousand,
doesn't matter what the number is. Like if you if
somebody follows you, they should be able to see your content.
You earned that follow and these platforms it almost feels
like it doesn't matter how many people follow you anymore,
(03:24):
because it matters does the algorithm like you, not whether
people like you.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
That is awesome. Yeah, I will have to say that
you are probably the second head of a platform that
I've had on the show We're going into it. I
had an account there. I'd heard about you, but I
didn't know what the hell this was, cause that happened
when I had somebody on fairly recently who was promoting
(03:49):
another project, but apparently he was the guy that ran
cloud Hub, and I used to promote all the time
on this show. I'd be like, we're a cloud hub,
whatever the hell that is. And I didn't know at
the time that he was the guy that ran clown Hub,
and so when I did the line, He's like, oh,
I can tell you what that is. And one of
(04:11):
the things that I noticed about him is that same
thing on his platform, he did not use an algorithm
or any of this stuff. Because I always find it
odd that our videos on Bitch, Shoot and Rumble in
all these places, we don't really get a lot of
(04:32):
views over there, but yet when I put something on
cloud Hub, that thing's up within like thirty minutes, and
I've got like five hundred thousand people that have watched
the video, and I'm like, this can't be real. This
is the work. And the thing is is that they're
not throttling anything. So I think that's awesome that you're
not doing that either over their own pickaxe. I think
(04:52):
that is awesome. You should be commended, sir No.
Speaker 5 (04:55):
I think and also, you know, like Todd Calendar, I'm
friends with Todd who's the CEO of of an owner
of cloud Hub and he's awesome, and I remember I
talked to him right when I announced that I first started,
when I was starting to build out pick Acts, and
you know, he gave me some great advice. We we've
even had some meetings recently on figuring out how how
can we how can we cross promote and find different
(05:16):
ways of integration between our platforms with cloud Hub and
pick Acts and stuff, because we're very like minded when
it comes to like our goals and and what we're
trying to accomplish there. And so you know, I think
I think with Todd with what he's done with cloud
Hub and Jeff Brain who's the original guy who created it,
who I was also friends with before he passed away,
but what they developed with cloud Hub was really getting
(05:38):
a whole bunch of tools to kind of replace Facebook
and so like where whereas we kind of targeted the
the you know, sub stack x crowd and so now
it's kind of like, okay, so now let's let's use
our platforms to further further messages, get free speech further
out there, and you know, and like I, like I've
Todd and I have said multiple times, like we don't
see each other as competition. We just see each other
(05:59):
as we offer different tools for a lot of the
same people.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Yep, I think that's awesome. So one of the things
that I love about what you're doing over there is
that I have started to hear about you from all
sorts of different people. And I didn't even know Pickaxe
existed until I started having various people on the show.
(06:24):
And at the end of the interviews, I always, you know,
have everybody do their plugs, and I started having all
these people promoting the fact that they were on pick Axe,
and at one point, I'm like, what in the hell
is Pickaxe? So I finally went over. I think it's
awesome that you're you haven't had to do any advertising.
(06:44):
You basically had the people that are on your side
going around and know they advertise. I think that's great.
Speaker 5 (06:51):
Yeah, well it's it's been it's been fun because so
really the only advertising that we that we've really done,
we've done some Rumble has a New Life I Read
advertising program where advertisers can actually pay to have people
do live reads. So that's been our one form of advertising.
And you know, because my thought process is like, okay,
so I would rather pay the creators to promote our
(07:13):
product than just pay a platform to advertise kind of
a thing, right, So so we're pay creators. It kind
of fits in with up with our mission, which is
to really give creators a platform and monetization and all
that kind of stuff. And it's funny because like on
the back end, on the main dashboard for Rumble, I can,
I can, I can go, and I can see the
clips of them doing the live reads, and so that
way I can I can decide do I want to,
let you know, do it again with them or not
(07:34):
and all that. And it's funny because the first time
they'll do it, they'll do the live read and then
all of a sudden, I see the light bulb go
off over their head. They're like, you know, maybe I
should set up an account myself, and and they're like
spelling themselves in the library.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
So it's been fun.
Speaker 5 (07:46):
But we also do have a really good like referral
program as well, built built within built within pickaxs, So
so you know, we we give each individual user their
own referral link and then they can go go around
and begin to promote pick acts because then they can
build their following on the platform. We've got different incentives
and some merchants and different things if you refer certain
number of people. And it's been really successful, which is
(08:09):
awesome because I don't have to go around spending hundreds
of thousands of dollars advertising a platform.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
People are enjoying it.
Speaker 5 (08:15):
Then they're going around and sharing with their friends and
building it up, and it's been a lot of fun
to see.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
That's awesome.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
So we've got a great guest for us today, and
I'm gonna and I definitely know I'm gonna butcher your
last name, sir, So I apologize. Jeff Dornick is with
us today, exactly right, holy smokes. Usually I am usually
I am Jicky Jag the Ugly American, and I am
butchering everybody's freaking name, doesn't matter if they're from the
(08:41):
United States or not. I butcher everybody's name. But he
joins us today. He is the pick Axe CEO, and
he joins us today here on our big program. So
what fascinates me also about Pickaxs, and you brought this
up earlier, is the integration with Rumble, because there's so
(09:04):
many of these sites out there that they don't really
integrate with Rumble, and they want you to do stuff
like if you're gonna upload a video, you're gonna upload
it on their thing, or if you're gonna do this
or whatever, you're on their thing. And I think it's
(09:27):
awesome that you are integrated with with rumbles. So talk
to us about that whole process.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
Well it's actually this whole thing stemmed from a conversation
that had with Todd Calendar, Uh, you know, like we're
talking about earlier, you know, over at cloudhubing and and
we had this conversation about the about how expensive it
is to do to host live streaming and do video
for for cloud hub and.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
He was like, if I just ask Alex Jones.
Speaker 5 (09:55):
Exactly, And so the Todd was like, if I can
just give you one piece of advice, He's like, I
would just tell you don't even enter into the live
stream space until you have the revenue coming in in
order to justify, you know, adding that new feature. Because
he's like that, that's very easy without that many people.
It's gonna be tens of thousands, about hundreds of thousands
of dollars a month just to do live streaming and hosting.
(10:17):
And then you got to host the video pretty much forever,
whether or not people watch it again. So it's a
very expensive process. So then I started brainstreaming. I'm like, okay,
so you know, we're a social media platform, how do
you have video? Because that's something that everybody wants. And
then so then I sat down with my dev team
and we figured out what we could actually do is
we could just make it to where if you post
a link to a Rumble video on our platform, it'll
(10:39):
automatically embed the video to make a playable in the
news feed. And we also figured out away, cause we're
ropping the app here in the next couple of weeks
as well, the web versions out right now, we're gonna be,
as far as I know, the only social media platform
with the app that with the Rumble videos that are
playable in the news feed as well, and so so
we figured out how to do that, and they were like, well,
you know, nin people are getting frustrated because it's like, Okay,
(11:00):
they go live over on Rumble and then they copy
and paste a link and then they come over to
Pickaxe and they post it, and then you know, it's
like it's an extra process when you're trying to start
a live stream. So then we figured out, well, there's
actually a technological solution to that. We can actually make
it to where if you can connect your Rumble channel
to your Pickaxe account as a creator on our platform,
and then it will auto post. So anytime that you
(11:21):
go live or post a new video on your Rumble channel,
it'll automatically post. It'll take the title as well and
post that as the subject, and it'll automatically post. You
don't have to do anything. And then now all of
a sudden, now you're live streaming through Rumble on Pickaxe
and anybody that's on pickaxe and now watch it. And
it's interesting because there was one one person who they
run an account on Pickaxe called mastering Rumble and they
(11:43):
just give tips and how.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
To thrive on Rumble and all that.
Speaker 5 (11:46):
And so they actually did a test without telling me,
and so they took an old video of theirs that
was posted on a rumble and then they posted it
on the Pickaxe to see, okay, like is this actually helping?
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Like do we benefit from it?
Speaker 5 (11:58):
And they actually did, did you know, win to the
analytics on Rumble And they figured out just by posting
that old video again with our minimal audience because we've
done very little advertising and promoting, we're still technically in
pre launch. They posted it onto Pickaxe and they got
six hundred new views on that one video just by
posting it on Pickax and the and the crazy things well,
(12:18):
and they were then they were concerned that, okay, if
we post it, but you know, are we taking away
our own revenue because they do like monetized views on
Rumble and they run ads and all that. And they're like, no,
it's six hundred monetized views that they gained by posting
on a Pickaxe. And here's and here's the really crazy thing.
If you're on X or you're on Facebook, or you're
on any of these the platforms and you post a
(12:39):
link to Rumble, you get demote in the algorithms because
they don't want you leaving their platform. So what so
it's very difficult, if not impossible, to build a Rumble
channel through X or through Facebook or through any of
these platforms because they don't want you to do that.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
So then you get dinged in the algorithm.
Speaker 5 (12:54):
So what we did is we're like, okay, cool, you
get a Rumble channel, great post post promote as much
as you possibly want. You're not You're never gonna get
dinged in in the news feed. It's playable, and it's
playable in the news feed as well. And so now
we're getting all these Rumble gamers, we're getting all these
live streamers and all that kind of stuff because they're like,
we have nowhere else to go where we can actually
promote our shows.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
That's awesome, that's awesome. We have got a great guest
with us today. Jeff Dornic is with us. He is
the CEO of pick Axe and uh he joins us
today here on our big broadcast. So why the name pickats.
Speaker 5 (13:33):
So it was interesting because I didn't want I didn't
want something that was too on the nose. And again,
no shade to like truth Social, but that was a
little too.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
On the nose for me.
Speaker 5 (13:43):
Yeah, and and so so I was so because.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
The the problem with like truth social is it's it's
like what and like when you when when when you
post things on there, because we post things everywhere. You
you you you did or you trothed it if you're drunk,
and it's like what is this? And so yeah, I'm I'm.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Go ahead, Yeah totally.
Speaker 5 (14:11):
Well, so, so we wanted something that wasn't too on
the nose, uh, And I wanted to be able to,
you know, turn it into a verb like you were
mentioning with truth It's it's kind of it's awkward.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
It's like even even.
Speaker 5 (14:21):
With X, what do you do, like like what do
you do with X? Or you know, how do you
how do you turn that into a verb. So we
figured out, okay, so if you're on pick axe and
you like something, you pick it. If you don't, you
axe it, and so you actually have the that's.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
So that's great.
Speaker 5 (14:36):
And but then I wanted something because we are a
free speech platform, and free speech is messy, free speech
is difficult, free speech is not just the easiest, and
so for us it's like, Okay, I wanted something more emoted,
like manual labor. Let's get in the trenches. Let's do
this dirty work of like conversing and debating and discussing.
(14:58):
Let's dive into the nuance of conversation and disagreements without
hating each other and all that. So there's that side
of things. But then also it's also the manual labor
and the intensity of really chipping away at the power
and the control that big tech has over us in
all these different ways. So for us, our mission as
a platform is we're going to look at where does
big tech have a hold over us, and then we're
(15:19):
going to try to figure out how do we free
people from that hold. And so we're just going to
continually pick away at the power that they have over
us and come up with new technological solutions in order
to overcome that. Because that's really kind of all that
kind of went behind the name Pickaxe.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
That's awesome. So Jeff Dornick is with us from Pickaxe
and he joins us live here on our big program.
So one of the things that I like about all
these various conservative social sciences as I call them, they
(15:55):
all have their own little thing, but a lot of
them it's like they're they really want to be Facebook.
They really want to be Facebook. And the thing I
like about what you guys are doing is that you
(16:15):
went another spot. You're like, we're gonna go after there's
the substack people, that's where we're going.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
So I think that's awesome because you know, you could
go down the list and I'm just looking at all
the windows that I have open of all the various
conservative sites, and I'm like, they're all they all look
like Facebook. And I'm glad that you just were like,
(16:47):
we're gonna go out for the writers and the people
like that. So and with the video you've got the
video people and the writers and everybody else. Go go
do something else where we'll integrate you in at some
point exactly.
Speaker 5 (17:04):
Well, it's like it's like we're going for more of
like the long form context.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
I want.
Speaker 5 (17:08):
I want to bring nuance, like like like I would
much wrap. I'm so sick of just everybody firebombing tweets.
They just get everybody pissed off and playing to echo
chambers and all that. But also, like when we went
into launching this, I was very clear with like my investor.
I was very clear with my team as well that
that you know, with all these other social media platforms,
get and I know a lot of the CEOs of them.
(17:29):
I've had them on my show, I've talked to them
over the years. But like Getter, Gab, Truth, social Cloud.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Hu, they all of them, They they all.
Speaker 5 (17:40):
Got big very fast because all these people were getting
kicked off of social media. They had nowhere else to go.
So all they needed was a home. All they needed
was a social media platform. So what ended up happening
is that these platforms would try to create an alternative
to the big tech platforms, and they would like, Okay,
well we need video, let's do video. It was never
quite as good as what you had on of the platforms,
(18:00):
but at least it's free speech and all that.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
With US, I k you going into it.
Speaker 5 (18:05):
We're not dealing with people getting kicked off with social
media in the same way that that that they used to.
We're dealing with people people being shadow band so they
still have places to go. So I have to entice
them not just by having oh, here's a platform you
can come to because you have nowhere else to go.
It's I have to entice you with something that is
better than what's out there, and and so I so
I think that for us, it's like, okay, cool, So
(18:26):
you're you're never gonna be manipulated with the algorithms. Great,
you can promote your rumble channels. Great, We've got three
different forms of monetization that we're that we're having built
into the to the platform at the launch of the app. Great,
now you can monetize it, and I believe even more
effectively than you'll get on these other social media platforms.
And and then you can you can write articles built
in We're we're gonna be rolling out by the end
of the year an email newsletter feature that that will
(18:49):
rival substack as well to where you can build an
email list built into a social media platform. And then
now you have direct access to your audience and again,
no no chance of anybody else getting in the middle
between you and your audience. So we're developing all these things.
And so when people look at at pickats, it's okay,
I can see the vision, I can see where you're going,
and the features are offering me something that I don't
(19:11):
have on these other big tech platforms, as opposed to
having just a cheap knockoff.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
Yeah, so besides what else were you.
Speaker 5 (19:28):
So besides besides Pickaxe, I like I've been I've been
hosting a show for for several years and it's called
The Jeff Thronicks Show Interviewed. I've been blessed to interview
everybody from like Ron Johnson, the Cash Patel and you know,
Flynn and like all all the kind of the usual suspects.
One of my favorite my favorite guests are a lot
of the COVID doctors that I you know, like doctor
Pierre Corey is one of my favorite people to just
(19:49):
kind of like pick his brain. Karen Kingston's great friends.
And so I've hosted a show and I just love
like because I'm curious. I love just exploring ideas and
having conversations, and I go into every single interview without
a script, without any idea of what we're going to
talk about, and then I just am curious and so
I just asked questions kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
The you know.
Speaker 5 (20:09):
So I've run a podcast network that kind of coincided
with that over the years, and now I'm kind of
integrating that into Pickacs. So we're actually gonna be making
an announcement soon where we're gonna have an actual pick
Axe podcast network that'll be built in h helped with
distribution of like audio podcasts and all all that kind
of stuff.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
But I've also written a couple.
Speaker 5 (20:29):
Of books that I've kind of co authored and I
was the general editor of as well as I'm writing
a book right now called Following the Leader that'll be
out here soon as well, and so for But for me, really,
I think a lot of what drives me is, you know,
it's trying to figure out what the truth is, you know,
understanding that like it's probably not in really like neither
(20:50):
political party truly has a monopoly on the truth. One
political party, i would argue, is closer to the truth
than the other. But we get a lot of lies
and a lot of misinformation from all the side. And
I find myself as I'm looking at issues that I'm
not really aligned fully with anybody out there, and I
have my own kind of like nuanced opinions, and so
so I think that, you know, everything I do, from
(21:12):
writing to hosting a show to pick acts and all
these different things, it's kind of coming from that different
perspective of, like, let's actually do this messy business of
discussion and debate and get down to like what what
is objective truth?
Speaker 1 (21:27):
What do we actually believe? What's our worldview?
Speaker 5 (21:29):
And so like that's a lot of what kind of
drives me in all my different endeavors that I do.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
I think, I think, I think we're we're losing.
Speaker 5 (21:44):
I can't hear it sounds like your MC cutout almost.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
I don't know. It is interesting thoughtless?
Speaker 5 (22:12):
Yes, so yeah, so following the following The Leader is
available for pre order right now. It should be out
here really soon. But it's but the whole premise of
the book.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
It started. It started out like in in the book.
Speaker 5 (22:24):
I believe it was in uh I forget which one
was maybe Social Injustice? I think I wrote about the
cult of uh. No, it's actually in the book Church
and State How the Left used the Church to conquer America.
I wrote a chapter in there about the evangelical culture
personality and and with it. Within that chapter, it was
really taking a look at how a lot some of
these megachurch evangelical pastors were using their positions almost like
(22:45):
as a mini cult leader. And it was like, you know,
people were finding their identity in their favorite pastor, and
you know which leads to you know that, you know,
if a pastor goes wrong in one area, his whole,
entire congregation is in entire following will follow him and
all into error, even if it's.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Well intentioned and all of that.
Speaker 5 (23:03):
And so so I wrote about how we don't need
to be we don't need to find our identity in
a pastor, but in the Bible and in in our
worldview and our in our belief system. Follow that, don't
follow a person because they're going to fail you at
some point.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Well. So, so that was within the evangelical world.
Speaker 5 (23:18):
But then I saw a lot of the same tactics,
you know, going and going into play in the political
world and culture and society as well. And so I started,
you know, getting curious about this. I'm like, so, why
why does this tactic keep coming up over and over
and over again? So I dive into it from a
biblical standpoint, diving into the theology. The apostle Paul condemned
this kind of mentality repeatedly in scripture. But then also
(23:40):
I started diving into the cults, things like scientology, things
like H. Jim Jones and Charles Manson and all of that.
And it's really interesting because they all, when you actually
dive into it, a lot of them have very close
ties with intelligence agencies. And he's like, Okay, something's interesting,
something's going on here. And and so with then my
theory that I explore and I'm kind of flushing out
in the book is you know, were these cults, you
(24:03):
know that had direct ties with a lot of intelligence agencies,
were they actually testing grounds for a lot of these
kind of manipulations in propaganda and mind control and you know,
these kind of cult mentalities and stuff. Was this actually
like kind of testing grounds for them to see how
do we take a random Jo Schmo off the street
and then believe something absolutely crazy or do something horrific
(24:26):
that they wouldn't normally do. Right, Like a lot of
the people that got caught up with Charles Manson, before
they met Charles Manson, they were just normal people. Like
there's everyday people going about their lives, and then they
got converted by Manson. Same thing like you look at
you look at scientology, They've got some pretty wacky beliefs
that like if you know, like when you go down
Hollywood Boulevard in downtown Hollywood, literally they've got people scientologists
(24:49):
that are out there proselytizing and hey, you want to
come in and you'd use an auditing session and all that.
They get you on self improvement, but they don't start
off with the fact that that that they actually believe
that aliens drop into the Pacific Ocean, climb up the beach,
and then dwell human beings. And that's why there's so
many scientologists in Los Angeles. They don't start with that.
They build up to that. And when we're seeing the
same thing happen in society today, where it's like, you know,
(25:12):
they start off with a very basic lie and then
they build on top of that, build on top of that,
build on top of that. We saw that in COVID,
we saw that with BLM, we see that with all
these different things. But then also then you know, and
this happens on the right too, where you begin to
find your identity in a particular person, and then that
person can lead you astray again, whether intentionally or not.
It's a critique that I have of the MAGA movement.
(25:34):
And again I voted for Trump. I like the guy,
but there is a certain segment of the magabase that
they find their identity in Donald Trump, and they're flip
flopping their positions as Donald Trump flip flops his positions.
That's a concern where is your truth? Does your truth
lie in your favorite person or does your truth lie
in your belief system and objective truth in something that
(25:56):
you can point to that's outside of ourselves. So that's
really what I'm diving into into the book and really
trying to fully flesh out.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
That's awesome. We have got Jeff Norrick with us today
to day. He joins us live here. Yeah, he has
a CEO.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Pick axe and Jeff, I appreciate you making some block
forms today.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
Thanks for come on. I definitely want to have you
back because you are amazing my friend. And I just
appreciate you making a block FORRSE today. Thanks for being
auto and we'll.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Thanks thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
And there he goes, that is Jeff, I'm a pick axe,
and uh, that is that.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
We appreciate you joining us today program and uh and
Speaker 4 (26:43):
We'll see you next time.
What judge down.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
The following video was brought to you by go Daddy
dot com than ten percent on world Class Hosting or
any go Daddy product when using the code pod eight
to eight at checkout now the latest.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
I will have to say that that that intro is
very entertaining. Welcome to it. You are listening to the
world Face Jigi, Jaguar Radio Broadcast Coast Coast of Bone
and the ball are on iHeartRadio today fifty pass Amfi
stations across the country around the world, the Odyssey app,
which I just always find terribly entertaining that we are
on the Odyssey app. Also iHeartRadio twenty four to seven
(00:41):
over there at giggjaguater dot com. And of course you
can download our on demand archived audio because the radio
industry won't let us say the P word. You can
get that on iHeartRadio Talk Show all the various places,
and of course live on AMFM twenty four seven dot
coms Well, bitchhoot, rumble, all the berries. We have got
(01:04):
a great guest to joining us today. He is May's platform.
When we had a.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Guest on on this this.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Woman on who kept telling us about how you could
follow her on Pickaxe. She was promoting a crap out
of this and I'm like, what in the what in
the hell Bobby is a pick axe? And I did
some research and I found out and then I talked
(01:41):
to my buddy A J. Rice, and he hooked us
up with Jeff today. So, uh, Jeff, thanks for being
on the Big broadcast. How are you, sir?
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Doing really well? Thanks for having me. I've been looking
forward to chatting with you.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
So tell us about pick Axe.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yeah, definitely start there, babe, Yeah, totally.
Speaker 5 (01:58):
Well, you know, so we so it's a social media platform,
and I always say it's it's it's a social media platform.
Imagine you had X and substack had a baby with Rumble.
Integration is basically the best way to describe it. So
you so, you've got your typical social media stuff. The
nice thing is that we don't We don't do all
the algorithmic manipulation that you get on the other platform.
(02:19):
So if you earn an audience, they're actually going to
see your content. We're not going to get in between
you and your audience. And everything that we do is
trying to find another point for you to be able
to connect with the people that are following you, and
so you know, so you've got you can post, you
can write articles directly on the platform. You can post
your Rumble videos and they're playable in the news feed
as if they're native to the platform, and then you
(02:41):
know in there, but you could still monetize on your
Rumble videos as well, so you can kind of double
dip as well, because we'll have our own monetization that's
built into the platform, so you can monetize as a
content creator. A whole bunch of awesome things that we're
developing too, that's coming down the pipeline. But it to me,
the really big pitch for joining Pickax is just the
fact that, like, we're not going to manipulate your reach,
(03:03):
which is what's happening on all these other platforms. They're
artificially limiting your access to your audience. You know, you
feel like, hey, I earned an audience, whether it's five
hundred people, one thousand people, ten thousand, one hundred thousand,
doesn't matter what the number is. Like if you if
somebody follows you, they should be able to see your content.
You earned that follow and these platforms it almost feels
like it doesn't matter how many people follow you anymore,
(03:24):
because it matters does the algorithm like you, not whether
people like you.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
That is awesome. Yeah, I will have to say that
you are probably the second head of a platform that
I've had on the show We're going into it. I
had an account there. I'd heard about you, but I
didn't know what the hell this was, cause that happened
when I had somebody on fairly recently who was promoting
(03:49):
another project, but apparently he was the guy that ran
cloud Hub, and I used to promote all the time
on this show. I'd be like, we're a cloud hub,
whatever the hell that is. And I didn't know at
the time that he was the guy that ran clown Hub,
and so when I did the line, He's like, oh,
I can tell you what that is. And one of
(04:11):
the things that I noticed about him is that same
thing on his platform, he did not use an algorithm
or any of this stuff. Because I always find it
odd that our videos on Bitch, Shoot and Rumble in
all these places, we don't really get a lot of
(04:32):
views over there, but yet when I put something on
cloud Hub, that thing's up within like thirty minutes, and
I've got like five hundred thousand people that have watched
the video, and I'm like, this can't be real. This
is the work. And the thing is is that they're
not throttling anything. So I think that's awesome that you're
not doing that either over their own pickaxe. I think
(04:52):
that is awesome. You should be commended, sir No.
Speaker 5 (04:55):
I think and also, you know, like Todd Calendar, I'm
friends with Todd who's the CEO of of an owner
of cloud Hub and he's awesome, and I remember I
talked to him right when I announced that I first started,
when I was starting to build out pick Acts, and
you know, he gave me some great advice. We we've
even had some meetings recently on figuring out how how
can we how can we cross promote and find different
(05:16):
ways of integration between our platforms with cloud Hub and
pick Acts and stuff, because we're very like minded when
it comes to like our goals and and what we're
trying to accomplish there. And so you know, I think
I think with Todd with what he's done with cloud
Hub and Jeff Brain who's the original guy who created it,
who I was also friends with before he passed away,
but what they developed with cloud Hub was really getting
(05:38):
a whole bunch of tools to kind of replace Facebook
and so like where whereas we kind of targeted the
the you know, sub stack x crowd and so now
it's kind of like, okay, so now let's let's use
our platforms to further further messages, get free speech further
out there, and you know, and like I, like I've
Todd and I have said multiple times, like we don't
see each other as competition. We just see each other
(05:59):
as we offer different tools for a lot of the
same people.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Yep, I think that's awesome. So one of the things
that I love about what you're doing over there is
that I have started to hear about you from all
sorts of different people. And I didn't even know Pickaxe
existed until I started having various people on the show.
(06:24):
And at the end of the interviews, I always, you know,
have everybody do their plugs, and I started having all
these people promoting the fact that they were on pick Axe,
and at one point, I'm like, what in the hell
is Pickaxe? So I finally went over. I think it's
awesome that you're you haven't had to do any advertising.
(06:44):
You basically had the people that are on your side
going around and know they advertise. I think that's great.
Speaker 5 (06:51):
Yeah, well it's it's been it's been fun because so
really the only advertising that we that we've really done,
we've done some Rumble has a New Life I Read
advertising program where advertisers can actually pay to have people
do live reads. So that's been our one form of advertising.
And you know, because my thought process is like, okay,
so I would rather pay the creators to promote our
(07:13):
product than just pay a platform to advertise kind of
a thing, right, So so we're pay creators. It kind
of fits in with up with our mission, which is
to really give creators a platform and monetization and all
that kind of stuff. And it's funny because like on
the back end, on the main dashboard for Rumble, I can,
I can, I can go, and I can see the
clips of them doing the live reads, and so that
way I can I can decide do I want to,
let you know, do it again with them or not
(07:34):
and all that. And it's funny because the first time
they'll do it, they'll do the live read and then
all of a sudden, I see the light bulb go
off over their head. They're like, you know, maybe I
should set up an account myself, and and they're like
spelling themselves in the library.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
So it's been fun.
Speaker 5 (07:46):
But we also do have a really good like referral
program as well, built built within built within pickaxs, So
so you know, we we give each individual user their
own referral link and then they can go go around
and begin to promote pick acts because then they can
build their following on the platform. We've got different incentives
and some merchants and different things if you refer certain
number of people. And it's been really successful, which is
(08:09):
awesome because I don't have to go around spending hundreds
of thousands of dollars advertising a platform.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
People are enjoying it.
Speaker 5 (08:15):
Then they're going around and sharing with their friends and
building it up, and it's been a lot of fun
to see.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
That's awesome.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
So we've got a great guest for us today, and
I'm gonna and I definitely know I'm gonna butcher your
last name, sir, So I apologize. Jeff Dornick is with
us today, exactly right, holy smokes. Usually I am usually
I am Jicky Jag the Ugly American, and I am
butchering everybody's freaking name, doesn't matter if they're from the
(08:41):
United States or not. I butcher everybody's name. But he
joins us today. He is the pick Axe CEO, and
he joins us today here on our big program. So
what fascinates me also about Pickaxs, and you brought this
up earlier, is the integration with Rumble, because there's so
(09:04):
many of these sites out there that they don't really
integrate with Rumble, and they want you to do stuff
like if you're gonna upload a video, you're gonna upload
it on their thing, or if you're gonna do this
or whatever, you're on their thing. And I think it's
(09:27):
awesome that you are integrated with with rumbles. So talk
to us about that whole process.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
Well it's actually this whole thing stemmed from a conversation
that had with Todd Calendar, Uh, you know, like we're
talking about earlier, you know, over at cloudhubing and and
we had this conversation about the about how expensive it
is to do to host live streaming and do video
for for cloud hub and.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
He was like, if I just ask Alex Jones.
Speaker 5 (09:55):
Exactly, And so the Todd was like, if I can
just give you one piece of advice, He's like, I
would just tell you don't even enter into the live
stream space until you have the revenue coming in in
order to justify, you know, adding that new feature. Because
he's like that, that's very easy without that many people.
It's gonna be tens of thousands, about hundreds of thousands
of dollars a month just to do live streaming and hosting.
(10:17):
And then you got to host the video pretty much forever,
whether or not people watch it again. So it's a
very expensive process. So then I started brainstreaming. I'm like, okay,
so you know, we're a social media platform, how do
you have video? Because that's something that everybody wants. And
then so then I sat down with my dev team
and we figured out what we could actually do is
we could just make it to where if you post
a link to a Rumble video on our platform, it'll
(10:39):
automatically embed the video to make a playable in the
news feed. And we also figured out away, cause we're
ropping the app here in the next couple of weeks
as well, the web versions out right now, we're gonna be,
as far as I know, the only social media platform
with the app that with the Rumble videos that are
playable in the news feed as well, and so so
we figured out how to do that, and they were like, well,
you know, nin people are getting frustrated because it's like, Okay,
(11:00):
they go live over on Rumble and then they copy
and paste a link and then they come over to
Pickaxe and they post it, and then you know, it's
like it's an extra process when you're trying to start
a live stream. So then we figured out, well, there's
actually a technological solution to that. We can actually make
it to where if you can connect your Rumble channel
to your Pickaxe account as a creator on our platform,
and then it will auto post. So anytime that you
(11:21):
go live or post a new video on your Rumble channel,
it'll automatically post. It'll take the title as well and
post that as the subject, and it'll automatically post. You
don't have to do anything. And then now all of
a sudden, now you're live streaming through Rumble on Pickaxe
and anybody that's on pickaxe and now watch it. And
it's interesting because there was one one person who they
run an account on Pickaxe called mastering Rumble and they
(11:43):
just give tips and how.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
To thrive on Rumble and all that.
Speaker 5 (11:46):
And so they actually did a test without telling me,
and so they took an old video of theirs that
was posted on a rumble and then they posted it
on the Pickaxe to see, okay, like is this actually helping?
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Like do we benefit from it?
Speaker 5 (11:58):
And they actually did, did you know, win to the
analytics on Rumble And they figured out just by posting
that old video again with our minimal audience because we've
done very little advertising and promoting, we're still technically in
pre launch. They posted it onto Pickaxe and they got
six hundred new views on that one video just by
posting it on Pickax and the and the crazy things well,
(12:18):
and they were then they were concerned that, okay, if
we post it, but you know, are we taking away
our own revenue because they do like monetized views on
Rumble and they run ads and all that. And they're like, no,
it's six hundred monetized views that they gained by posting
on a Pickaxe. And here's and here's the really crazy thing.
If you're on X or you're on Facebook, or you're
on any of these the platforms and you post a
(12:39):
link to Rumble, you get demote in the algorithms because
they don't want you leaving their platform. So what so
it's very difficult, if not impossible, to build a Rumble
channel through X or through Facebook or through any of
these platforms because they don't want you to do that.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
So then you get dinged in the algorithm.
Speaker 5 (12:54):
So what we did is we're like, okay, cool, you
get a Rumble channel, great post post promote as much
as you possibly want. You're not You're never gonna get
dinged in in the news feed. It's playable, and it's
playable in the news feed as well. And so now
we're getting all these Rumble gamers, we're getting all these
live streamers and all that kind of stuff because they're like,
we have nowhere else to go where we can actually
promote our shows.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
That's awesome, that's awesome. We have got a great guest
with us today. Jeff Dornic is with us. He is
the CEO of pick Axe and uh he joins us
today here on our big broadcast. So why the name pickats.
Speaker 5 (13:33):
So it was interesting because I didn't want I didn't
want something that was too on the nose. And again,
no shade to like truth Social, but that was a
little too.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
On the nose for me.
Speaker 5 (13:43):
Yeah, and and so so I was so because.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
The the problem with like truth social is it's it's
like what and like when you when when when you
post things on there, because we post things everywhere. You
you you you did or you trothed it if you're drunk,
and it's like what is this? And so yeah, I'm I'm.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Go ahead, Yeah totally.
Speaker 5 (14:11):
Well, so, so we wanted something that wasn't too on
the nose, uh, And I wanted to be able to,
you know, turn it into a verb like you were
mentioning with truth It's it's kind of it's awkward.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
It's like even even.
Speaker 5 (14:21):
With X, what do you do, like like what do
you do with X? Or you know, how do you
how do you turn that into a verb. So we
figured out, okay, so if you're on pick axe and
you like something, you pick it. If you don't, you
axe it, and so you actually have the that's.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
So that's great.
Speaker 5 (14:36):
And but then I wanted something because we are a
free speech platform, and free speech is messy, free speech
is difficult, free speech is not just the easiest, and
so for us it's like, Okay, I wanted something more emoted,
like manual labor. Let's get in the trenches. Let's do
this dirty work of like conversing and debating and discussing.
(14:58):
Let's dive into the nuance of conversation and disagreements without
hating each other and all that. So there's that side
of things. But then also it's also the manual labor
and the intensity of really chipping away at the power
and the control that big tech has over us in
all these different ways. So for us, our mission as
a platform is we're going to look at where does
big tech have a hold over us, and then we're
(15:19):
going to try to figure out how do we free
people from that hold. And so we're just going to
continually pick away at the power that they have over
us and come up with new technological solutions in order
to overcome that. Because that's really kind of all that
kind of went behind the name Pickaxe.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
That's awesome. So Jeff Dornick is with us from Pickaxe
and he joins us live here on our big program.
So one of the things that I like about all
these various conservative social sciences as I call them, they
(15:55):
all have their own little thing, but a lot of
them it's like they're they really want to be Facebook.
They really want to be Facebook. And the thing I
like about what you guys are doing is that you
(16:15):
went another spot. You're like, we're gonna go after there's
the substack people, that's where we're going.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
So I think that's awesome because you know, you could
go down the list and I'm just looking at all
the windows that I have open of all the various
conservative sites, and I'm like, they're all they all look
like Facebook. And I'm glad that you just were like,
(16:47):
we're gonna go out for the writers and the people
like that. So and with the video you've got the
video people and the writers and everybody else. Go go
do something else where we'll integrate you in at some
point exactly.
Speaker 5 (17:04):
Well, it's like it's like we're going for more of
like the long form context.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
I want.
Speaker 5 (17:08):
I want to bring nuance, like like like I would
much wrap. I'm so sick of just everybody firebombing tweets.
They just get everybody pissed off and playing to echo
chambers and all that. But also, like when we went
into launching this, I was very clear with like my investor.
I was very clear with my team as well that
that you know, with all these other social media platforms,
get and I know a lot of the CEOs of them.
(17:29):
I've had them on my show, I've talked to them
over the years. But like Getter, Gab, Truth, social Cloud.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Hu, they all of them, They they all.
Speaker 5 (17:40):
Got big very fast because all these people were getting
kicked off of social media. They had nowhere else to go.
So all they needed was a home. All they needed
was a social media platform. So what ended up happening
is that these platforms would try to create an alternative
to the big tech platforms, and they would like, Okay,
well we need video, let's do video. It was never
quite as good as what you had on of the platforms,
(18:00):
but at least it's free speech and all that.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
With US, I k you going into it.
Speaker 5 (18:05):
We're not dealing with people getting kicked off with social
media in the same way that that that they used to.
We're dealing with people people being shadow band so they
still have places to go. So I have to entice
them not just by having oh, here's a platform you
can come to because you have nowhere else to go.
It's I have to entice you with something that is
better than what's out there, and and so I so
I think that for us, it's like, okay, cool, So
(18:26):
you're you're never gonna be manipulated with the algorithms. Great,
you can promote your rumble channels. Great, We've got three
different forms of monetization that we're that we're having built
into the to the platform at the launch of the app. Great,
now you can monetize it, and I believe even more
effectively than you'll get on these other social media platforms.
And and then you can you can write articles built
in We're we're gonna be rolling out by the end
of the year an email newsletter feature that that will
(18:49):
rival substack as well to where you can build an
email list built into a social media platform. And then
now you have direct access to your audience and again,
no no chance of anybody else getting in the middle
between you and your audience. So we're developing all these things.
And so when people look at at pickats, it's okay,
I can see the vision, I can see where you're going,
and the features are offering me something that I don't
(19:11):
have on these other big tech platforms, as opposed to
having just a cheap knockoff.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
Yeah, so besides what else were you.
Speaker 5 (19:28):
So besides besides Pickaxe, I like I've been I've been
hosting a show for for several years and it's called
The Jeff Thronicks Show Interviewed. I've been blessed to interview
everybody from like Ron Johnson, the Cash Patel and you know,
Flynn and like all all the kind of the usual suspects.
One of my favorite my favorite guests are a lot
of the COVID doctors that I you know, like doctor
Pierre Corey is one of my favorite people to just
(19:49):
kind of like pick his brain. Karen Kingston's great friends.
And so I've hosted a show and I just love
like because I'm curious. I love just exploring ideas and
having conversations, and I go into every single interview without
a script, without any idea of what we're going to
talk about, and then I just am curious and so
I just asked questions kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
The you know.
Speaker 5 (20:09):
So I've run a podcast network that kind of coincided
with that over the years, and now I'm kind of
integrating that into Pickacs. So we're actually gonna be making
an announcement soon where we're gonna have an actual pick
Axe podcast network that'll be built in h helped with
distribution of like audio podcasts and all all that kind
of stuff.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
But I've also written a couple.
Speaker 5 (20:29):
Of books that I've kind of co authored and I
was the general editor of as well as I'm writing
a book right now called Following the Leader that'll be
out here soon as well, and so for But for me, really,
I think a lot of what drives me is, you know,
it's trying to figure out what the truth is, you know,
understanding that like it's probably not in really like neither
(20:50):
political party truly has a monopoly on the truth. One
political party, i would argue, is closer to the truth
than the other. But we get a lot of lies
and a lot of misinformation from all the side. And
I find myself as I'm looking at issues that I'm
not really aligned fully with anybody out there, and I
have my own kind of like nuanced opinions, and so
so I think that, you know, everything I do, from
(21:12):
writing to hosting a show to pick acts and all
these different things, it's kind of coming from that different
perspective of, like, let's actually do this messy business of
discussion and debate and get down to like what what
is objective truth?
Speaker 1 (21:27):
What do we actually believe? What's our worldview?
Speaker 5 (21:29):
And so like that's a lot of what kind of
drives me in all my different endeavors that I do.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
I think, I think, I think we're we're losing.
Speaker 5 (21:44):
I can't hear it sounds like your MC cutout almost.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
I don't know. It is interesting thoughtless?
Speaker 5 (22:12):
Yes, so yeah, so following the following The Leader is
available for pre order right now. It should be out
here really soon. But it's but the whole premise of
the book.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
It started. It started out like in in the book.
Speaker 5 (22:24):
I believe it was in uh I forget which one
was maybe Social Injustice? I think I wrote about the
cult of uh. No, it's actually in the book Church
and State How the Left used the Church to conquer America.
I wrote a chapter in there about the evangelical culture
personality and and with it. Within that chapter, it was
really taking a look at how a lot some of
these megachurch evangelical pastors were using their positions almost like
(22:45):
as a mini cult leader. And it was like, you know,
people were finding their identity in their favorite pastor, and
you know which leads to you know that, you know,
if a pastor goes wrong in one area, his whole,
entire congregation is in entire following will follow him and
all into error, even if it's.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Well intentioned and all of that.
Speaker 5 (23:03):
And so so I wrote about how we don't need
to be we don't need to find our identity in
a pastor, but in the Bible and in in our
worldview and our in our belief system. Follow that, don't
follow a person because they're going to fail you at
some point.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Well. So, so that was within the evangelical world.
Speaker 5 (23:18):
But then I saw a lot of the same tactics,
you know, going and going into play in the political
world and culture and society as well. And so I started,
you know, getting curious about this. I'm like, so, why
why does this tactic keep coming up over and over
and over again? So I dive into it from a
biblical standpoint, diving into the theology. The apostle Paul condemned
this kind of mentality repeatedly in scripture. But then also
(23:40):
I started diving into the cults, things like scientology, things
like H. Jim Jones and Charles Manson and all of that.
And it's really interesting because they all, when you actually
dive into it, a lot of them have very close
ties with intelligence agencies. And he's like, Okay, something's interesting,
something's going on here. And and so with then my
theory that I explore and I'm kind of flushing out
in the book is you know, were these cults, you
(24:03):
know that had direct ties with a lot of intelligence agencies,
were they actually testing grounds for a lot of these
kind of manipulations in propaganda and mind control and you know,
these kind of cult mentalities and stuff. Was this actually
like kind of testing grounds for them to see how
do we take a random Jo Schmo off the street
and then believe something absolutely crazy or do something horrific
(24:26):
that they wouldn't normally do. Right, Like a lot of
the people that got caught up with Charles Manson, before
they met Charles Manson, they were just normal people. Like
there's everyday people going about their lives, and then they
got converted by Manson. Same thing like you look at
you look at scientology, They've got some pretty wacky beliefs
that like if you know, like when you go down
Hollywood Boulevard in downtown Hollywood, literally they've got people scientologists
(24:49):
that are out there proselytizing and hey, you want to
come in and you'd use an auditing session and all that.
They get you on self improvement, but they don't start
off with the fact that that that they actually believe
that aliens drop into the Pacific Ocean, climb up the beach,
and then dwell human beings. And that's why there's so
many scientologists in Los Angeles. They don't start with that.
They build up to that. And when we're seeing the
same thing happen in society today, where it's like, you know,
(25:12):
they start off with a very basic lie and then
they build on top of that, build on top of that,
build on top of that. We saw that in COVID,
we saw that with BLM, we see that with all
these different things. But then also then you know, and
this happens on the right too, where you begin to
find your identity in a particular person, and then that
person can lead you astray again, whether intentionally or not.
It's a critique that I have of the MAGA movement.
(25:34):
And again I voted for Trump. I like the guy,
but there is a certain segment of the magabase that
they find their identity in Donald Trump, and they're flip
flopping their positions as Donald Trump flip flops his positions.
That's a concern where is your truth? Does your truth
lie in your favorite person or does your truth lie
in your belief system and objective truth in something that
(25:56):
you can point to that's outside of ourselves. So that's
really what I'm diving into into the book and really
trying to fully flesh out.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
That's awesome. We have got Jeff Norrick with us today
to day. He joins us live here. Yeah, he has
a CEO.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Pick axe and Jeff, I appreciate you making some block
forms today.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
Thanks for come on. I definitely want to have you
back because you are amazing my friend. And I just
appreciate you making a block FORRSE today. Thanks for being
auto and we'll.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Thanks thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
And there he goes, that is Jeff, I'm a pick axe,
and uh, that is that.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
We appreciate you joining us today program and uh and
Speaker 4 (26:43):
We'll see you next time.
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