Gerry Powell is the visionary founder of Rythmia, the world-renowned plant medicine center in Costa Rica. In this raw and revealing episode, Gerry opens up about his wild journey—from building and selling a $100M business to hitting rock bottom with addiction, ego, and emptiness.
What followed was a complete transformation through ayahuasca, humility, and service. Gerry shares the deep lessons he’s learned about healing, letting go of control, and living with purpose. If you've ever questioned the path you're on, this episode will shake you up in the best way.
00:00 Introduction
02:00 The beauty of the challenges of life
03:31 Plant medicine and the fear of doing it the wrong way
05:57 Gerry's story and how he got here
11:47 Ayahuasca and what it truly does for you
17:04 Discussing plant medicine appropriately
23:47 Creating Rythmia and what a retreat looks like
28:05 Where can Rythmia go from here
30:13 What Ayahuasca can be
35:45 Discussing religion and god
40:29 Human nature: why people are good
45:08 God loves you
47:54 The gift of prayer
51:03 The medicine guides everything
52:43 Where you can check out Gerry and Rythmia
53:45 Outro
Check out my Online Men's Coaching Community We Are The They and see how it's changing men's lives across the globe!
Get my FREE guide with 45 Days of Simple Tips to Become a Better Man
Pick up my USA Today bestselling book Be One: How to Be a Healthy Man in Toxic Times
What followed was a complete transformation through ayahuasca, humility, and service. Gerry shares the deep lessons he’s learned about healing, letting go of control, and living with purpose. If you've ever questioned the path you're on, this episode will shake you up in the best way.
00:00 Introduction
02:00 The beauty of the challenges of life
03:31 Plant medicine and the fear of doing it the wrong way
05:57 Gerry's story and how he got here
11:47 Ayahuasca and what it truly does for you
17:04 Discussing plant medicine appropriately
23:47 Creating Rythmia and what a retreat looks like
28:05 Where can Rythmia go from here
30:13 What Ayahuasca can be
35:45 Discussing religion and god
40:29 Human nature: why people are good
45:08 God loves you
47:54 The gift of prayer
51:03 The medicine guides everything
52:43 Where you can check out Gerry and Rythmia
53:45 Outro
Check out my Online Men's Coaching Community We Are The They and see how it's changing men's lives across the globe!
Get my FREE guide with 45 Days of Simple Tips to Become a Better Man
Pick up my USA Today bestselling book Be One: How to Be a Healthy Man in Toxic Times
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Jimmy Rex Show.
Today on the podcast, we sit down with the founder
and CEO of Rhythmia.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
His name is Jerry Powell and he has a story
to tell.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
He also wrote a book called Shit the Moon Said,
a story of sex, drugs, and ayahuasca, and he just
has a fascinating story. He had a life changing experience
doing plant medicine and decided to set up a place
that is now the only place that is legal in
the entire country to go and do ayahuasca. And the
(00:34):
reason why it's so valuable is because it's one of
those things plant medicine. Now you know, there's the upside,
in the downside, there's the shadow side of plant medicine,
and done wrong, it can be very dangerous to dive
into these psychedelics. But what I would love about Rhythmia
and this is the place for anybody that ever asked
me if they should do ayahuascar, where I send them
to Rhythmia's website because that's the only place I know
(00:55):
of that I know they'll get a great experience or
a positive experience where that container is held for them. So,
without further ado, let's get to the podcast with the
founder of Arrhythmia, mister Jerry Powell. This week's episode is
brought to you by Bucked Up Supplements. I don't know
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(01:16):
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Speaker 2 (01:18):
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Speaker 1 (01:20):
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(01:41):
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Speaker 2 (01:50):
Go check it out.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Jerry, you have had quite the life, my friend. I
seek my whole life to find interesting people, characters I
call them, and you are the utmost on top of
that list.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Like, what a fascinating life you've been able to live.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
It's been a rough one. I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
It's been a super challenging life in every aspect, and
you know, it keeps getting more challenging.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
They say that the whole point of trying to figure
out our challenges is God can give us bigger ones,
and so the problems we get to deal with, we
get to take on.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Bigger and bigger, more meaningful problems.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
I guess, yeah, it's it's I believe that to be true.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
I you know, I think that all of us inherently
are looking for a place to rest, and we figure
if we can just get over this one hill, there'll
be a valley there.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
But there's always just another hill.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
That's the beauty of life is it doesn't matter what
mountain you climb. The second you get there, you realize
the next mountain's coming, you know.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
And it's the truth.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
And I guess I'm from you know, my family were
my grandparents were very blue collar people, and and you know,
they they kind of believed in you know that place
to rest and retirement theory, but you know the that's
(03:25):
all history now.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, Well, a big part of the hero's journey is
once you do go and you reach the top of
that mountain, to come down and share it with others.
And I think that's what's so beautiful about your story
is you know, in the plant medicine aahuasca space, there's
a lot of fear, there's a lot of uncertainty, there's
a lot of people that don't understand it. And the
thing that I love about what you have done is
(03:49):
you have created a space for it to for sure
be the correct container to be done in a setting
that's safe, that's you know, that's taken away a lot
of the variables that cause problems in this space because
there's a shadow side obviously to plant medicine and iowas
and all these things.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
You know what's been beautiful even for me. I've never
been to Rhythmia.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I plan to get there one day, but I've probably
sent no joke, Jerry, I've probably sent fifty to one
hundred people to you guys, because the only place I
know of where I know they'll get a great experience.
Everything else there's a lot of variables, and it's not
worth the risk if you don't do it correctly. If
you're gonna dabble in this stuff, the last thing you
(04:30):
want to do is, you know, do it in a
setting that's not correct or safe, or doesn't have the integration,
you know, that doesn't really have the setup for you
to have a fut full experience.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
I agree, I agree completely.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
And you know, with the proliferation of plant medicine throughout
the world, whether it's syahwascar or psilocybin, whatever, it's so
important that the people that you're dealing with are responsible
people because it's just so easy. It's a because you know,
(05:04):
we're the only ones in the world with a governmental
license to do it.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
We're the only ones in the world.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
And in an unregulated environment, anybody can.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Do anything they want to do. They can they you know,
I know people, this is the truth.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
I know people that have probably drank ayahuasca five.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Or ten times and then and then.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Said that the medicine came to them and told them
that they were a shaman from previous lives and now
they're going to serve medicine. And that's kind of like saying,
you know, I drank the medicine and told me I
was a pilot in my previous life and tell.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Them a fly plane. Yeah it doesn't work like that.
You know, it doesn't work like that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Well, and I mean, I want to give some people
some perspective before we get into rhythmia and what you
guys do there and talk about Aahwaska itself. I'd love
to back into your story and I hope you never
get tired of telling you because it's such a beautiful story,
such a fascinating story.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Then you know, you've told this so many times, but.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
It really goes to show and for people that aren't
familiar with this space.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
So a lot of my listeners are a lot of
them probably aren't.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
I mean, rhythmia is the spot you go to get
the experience the correct way. Like there is no doubt
in my mind that your mission is one that God
called you directly to and the fact that you've been
able to execute it just goes to show the brilliance
of who you had to be ahead of time in
your business background allowed you to do this and set
it up in a way that it really has become
(06:38):
the place for people to go to in the entire
world for this very powerful and very life changing, you
know medicine which is aahuasca and.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
It really is that.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
I mean, we are humbled by by being given this opportunity. Myself,
I'm a guy either way too. I've done this. I
have three hundred and fifty four journeys. And the more
that I do, the less that I know. Just a
fact of life. The more that I do, the less
(07:13):
that I know. But the more centered you become, you know,
And I'm number one. I'm super lucky to be alive
because I should have been dead a long long time ago,
and I came. If you want me to tell you
a little bit about the story, I'll give you a
real a bridge version of it.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
And by the way, if anybody wants to get like
the full full version, you have a book called Shit
the Moon said, and you're really going to some details.
But yeah, maybe tell us just how lost you were
before I found the medicine and what led you to it, Jerry,
I was horribly lost.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
I was just a wreck of a person as an alcoholic,
a drug addict.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
I had done in business.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
I you know, from all appearances that looked like I
had everything.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
I sold a company for.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
Ninety million dollars that I owned eighty percent of, you know,
so I was financially good. But my life was a wreck.
And my wife of twenty years and my kids left me,
and I was suicidal, and I didn't know what was
wrong with me because I kind of did have everything.
(08:31):
I was still a young guy, and I had planes
and a bunch of cars and houses and stuff that
most people would be happy, and yet my whole life,
I was always set.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
I was always depressed.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
I was always trying to get out of myself, whether
it drugs, alcohol, sex, whatever. I was trying to get
away from me. And at the same time, I had
this great love for God, which was crazy as a Catholic.
And I was, you know, partying all the time. I
(09:07):
was married with ten girlfriends, and I was always in church.
It's just a strange life that I was living. And
when my wife finally left me, my first wife.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
I.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Broke and I ended up going to Passages Malibu. I
met this guy, doctor Jeff, who's my partner with me
right now. My business partner has been a partner of
mine for fifteen.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Years or whatever. But my life broke. I went fully
into addiction therapy and therapy. I was in therapy five
days a week with Jeff and two days a week
with another therapist. I went to church twice a week
(09:59):
at it got in Los Angeles. I did that for
five years and I didn't get any better.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
And then through a set of circumstances, I was in Borichai, Indonesia,
and I mean I was in Borichai in the Philippines,
and I got this connection to go to Costa Rica
and do this planned medicine. And the short story is
(10:28):
I went, I did this thing, and it showed me
what was wrong with me. It showed me why it
was wrong with me, and it gave me a path
to get out. And it kind of felt, if you
were old enough to remember FM radio, of being caught
between two stations and then getting into stereo for the
(10:52):
first time. And I immediately stopped doing drugs immediately, which
I never stopped my whole life. When when I say
there's a drug addict, I mean every day of my life,
I was on something, whether it was cocaine or xanax
or whatever whatever pill I could get a hold of whatever,
(11:14):
I was always on something, and immediately it stopped me
from that. It reduced my drinking of alcohol by eighty
to ninety percent. And that's a real that's a real number.
I was part of a drunk.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Study and so I know that it went down that
And eventually I completely stopped alcohol together from.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
It, quit smoking cigarettes, which was the hardest thing in
the world for me to do.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
And I felt this great love.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
For God and for this medicine because I was always
confused about those things, religion, God and what this was.
And I just thought, man, I have to be able
to to do this on a scale to help, you know,
tell more people. And and in that so many people
(12:12):
are running around depressed, suicidal, stuck, but with no hope.
And yet there is this thing that that bridges it
all together. And when I say bridges all together, I
mean bridges it all together.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
It really, it really does. And and I mean a
lot of people are afraid.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
I'm a I'm a Mormon, I'm a Catholic, I'm a Jew,
I'm this, I'm that, And I don't want to do
anything that's gonna make me.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Not of my religion anymore.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
And da da da da da, And this is nothing
like that. This is something that makes whatever is there
that's good, it makes it stronger, and the things that
aren't up, it gets rid of them.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
And it is really hard.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
I'm going to tell you, you do this medicine, and
all of the ways that your life isn't working are
going to be shown to you. And the quicker once
you integrate and get back on the trail, the quicker
you could do what this medicine said, the better because
because if it shows you fifty things that are wrong
(13:29):
and you don't address them, everything, it's like a fifty
car crash on a highway. It just gets wild. So
I understand sometimes when people want to do it, it's
their sixth sense whatever this thing is telling them that
(13:50):
if I do this, this is going to get real
awfully quick.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
You know, yeah, I've kind of.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
That's what I tell people is it's gonna basically, it's
going to show you the things that are out of
alignment in your life, and some of them it's going
to make you deal with it right there where you
you know, are going to basically be in an excruciating
pain and tell you realize what's causing that pain and
let it go. And then other things it's just going
to bring into your awareness. But for me, that's I
(14:18):
think what I've really appreciated about ayahuasca is it's almost
like a cleanser that allows you to see your own
bullshit that you really don't see before. You're blind to
the things, or you don't know why those things are there.
And so it's not so much I don't really to me,
I don't get you know. I know you've had a
lot of different visions and things like that on or
you see different things and I've never had that. But
(14:39):
for me, it's just it just shows me whatever the
thing is in my life, I don't want to look at.
It's funny because one time before a ceremony, I went
in and I literally said, there's two things I'm not
going to look at tonight, no matter what. This and this,
and I'll do that. I'll let you decide what two
things were on my mind the entire night. Right, it
was like the whole thing. And what was so cool
(14:59):
is one was the next girlfriend. One was a buddy
I used to have that I both felt like, you know,
betrayed me or whatever else. And for the woman, it
was just this purest love of like, oh she loved
you more than anyone else ever could. Like, she wasn't perfect,
and she screwed a lot of things up, but she tried,
Like in her broken stage, she tried the best, and
no one's ever tried to love you like that.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
I was like, damn.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
And then it was like, showed me all the progress
I'd made because of this woman that just forced me
to level up in all these different ways. And then
the buddy, you know, it was like I just had
the most empathy and love for this man that just
needed me to quit judging him and just love him.
And it was just this completely different lens I was
able to put on. By the time I walked out
of there, I'm texting my buddy, and I'm like, I'll
(15:42):
wait to text the ex.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Girlfriend because I know I'm in the medicine. I'm not
trying to get back with her. I just just want
her to know that I don't, you know. And so
I energetically just sent her love.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
I did the hope onwer'll prayer for and sent it
to her energetically instead.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
But my point is is, like, you know, it's in it.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Every time I do it, It'll show me thirty or
forty people in my life and what I need to
do to help them or how I can, you know,
strengthen my relationship or love them more or some of
those things. And again, one of the things about you
know iahwask in particular, that I'm very confident about, is
that it never gives you what you want, but it's
going to give you what you need if you go
in with the right intention. And it really does help
(16:20):
you connect. I think you called it like I call
it the higher self. It helps you to connect to
your higher self. It's really cool. I mean, I've had
two hour conversations with my higher self Jerry that were
as real is the one I'm having with you right now,
and it set things back to me that I know
wasn't me, and I was just like, well, there's no
way my ass was coming up with that, So I
guess I better pay attention to hear. And just some
(16:40):
really beautiful things that helped me have peace around the
religion that I used to be a part of and
left and really understand how that thing works as a
positive for other people in their lives and how I
could honor them and still honor my own journey when
I talk about it, And it just really helps me,
you know, it just has helped me a lot in
my life.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
And so it's one of those those things that.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
I don't and maybe this is a good place to
go with the conversation, but what is the appropriate way
or time or whatever to share things like this, because
it does, again, it does have its shadowside. And I
never don't say that because I think it's so important
people know not to mess around with this stuff, or
just do it casually, or do it in a setting
that's not sacred, because I've seen it work in ways
(17:23):
where it messed people up their entire life too or
ruin their whole life. And it's again, it's it's such
a thing to be honored and not mess around with.
And I think I probably overshared when I first did it,
and I was so excited that I probably told too
many people that they should try it. And I've since
completely backed off that and I more just let it
(17:43):
guide it to people. There's enough information out there now
like there wasn't when I first started doing this, and
now it's like people will find this if they're supposed to.
But like, being able to have this conversation with you
is my way of just saying look, guys, if you
are interested, this is the way.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
You do it.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
You go do it legally, you go do it with
this group that's going to protect you and take care
of the logistics so that you can just have a
beautiful experience.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
So one of the things that always tripped me out
is that, you know, on occasion, I don't go there
often because it seems like like these Facebook ayahuasca pages
and stuff where you get like lots of crack pots
without you know, just.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
One of the people that was, you know, attacking me
for doing plant medicine said, if it's so great, how
many psychos are doing it all the time and they
haven't changed at all. And I was like, I don't
really have a good argument against those because there's so.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Many other.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
People that order it from the internet and cook it
in their kitchen and do it on their couch, like and.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
I'm thinking, I just wouldn't even imagine. I couldn't even imagine.
But but what I do say is this is that
when you listen to a conversation like when I have it,
and if it draws you, my belief is that that
draw is from a soul.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
Your soul wants to get read aligned, and it's going
to pull you in.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
If you're not ready, it's not going to no amount
of no amount of how good you're going to feel
in ten days.
Speaker 4 (19:23):
Because I have to tell you what if somebody came
to me with the ayahuasca pitch twenty years ago, you
know what, I would have told them, get away from me.
I don't even want, Like you know, Jesus didn't do that,
Like I would have just got.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Rid of them. You know, I would have said, look,
and I'm going to go out tonight, get hammered, have
sex with someone other than my wife, and go to
confession on Saturday, and everything'll be okay.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
I don't want, you know, I just wasn't ready. But
when you are ready, your soul responds and pulls you in.
Ken Ken ayahuasca create problems for people and the wrong
set and setting, yeah it can. And and I'm not
(20:09):
even so much concerned about the after as I am
the before. So so you know, we have twenty hours
worth of instruction, you know, and in the week.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
That you're here before you ever take the medicine, you
mean eight hours.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
Before you take the medicine of full on instruction because
you know, learning how to drive the medicine and what
to expect. I have to tell you what I would
honestly would have shipped myself like if I didn't know
what was coming, because it can get wild in there,
It can get wild, you know, absolutely wild, and and
(20:49):
you know what, I what. You know, a lot of
people in the beginning were super pissed with us because
we used the word miracle. But but you know, I'm
from a place where you know, over ninety seven percent
of the people that walk through the door here claim
they had a miracle in their life. So that word miracle,
(21:16):
it's important, and I believe that everybody has the right
to it, right, so you can do ayahuasca. You know,
in life, in my opinion, either everything's a miracle or
nothing's a miracle.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
If you ever.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
Watch fucking tree grow and you don't think that's a miracle,
you're missing out on a lot of a lot of
what this life is about, right, truth, right, I mean
that's you know that the the oak trees in the acorn.
If that's not enough for you, then you know we're
not all right. But uh, you know, seeing these these
(21:57):
real miracles, you know, occur every week, week in and
week out from normal, normal, normal people to you know,
we have all kinds of celebrities and stuff come here right.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
And but it can happen to anyone, and it will
happen ninety seven and a half percent of the time
if you do it right, if you're properly prepared, if
you understand, if you're pay attention to the classes.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
I mean, you got to you got to do.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
It's a participatory event. Uh huh, So you got to
do your share. And then boy, once.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
You're done, that's when it starts. See that, look at
you know.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
The crazy thing is she tells you, oh, look, you know,
get away from this person, stop smoking crack, and stop
watching porn.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Okay, great, now go do it.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
The integration really is you know, it almost like you'll
be left in a worse spot if you don't integrate,
because you're now you're going to see everything.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
And if you're not willing to do the.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Work, you know, it's uh And people always say like, well,
can you get addicted to it?
Speaker 2 (23:10):
I said no, because it's not.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
It's work, Like it's really difficult to do it.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
It's work. But you hit it on the head. So
look at I go there she shows me everything. I
have to change and trade those things for a happy
life to do that trade, and I decided I'm not
ready yet. Boy gets all it gets all down strange
(23:37):
roads from that point on. You.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
I mean, you had you in your experience, you know,
you got told now go set up this retreat center.
I mean, how difficult was that to accept as like
your next thing that you were obviously you wouldn't did it,
And so I'd love to hear kind of how you
came up with the idea of how to do rhythm
and why and all that.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
I did forty more journeys where she explained how to
do it.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
And here's the crazy part. I was about ready to
open up a string of naked lady.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Bars exactly strip clubs. That's where I was. That was
my next venture. And I went from that because that
seemed like the right kind of retirement for where I
was at previous to do in the medicine. I went
from that to to opening a retreat center, you know,
(24:35):
and it was like it was the craziest.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Transition, you know, And I'm the last guy. Look, I'm
I'm I'm still a baffoon. I still you know, I
still am.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
Crude and sometimes harsh and all these things. And yet,
and yet, for whatever reason, I'm doing this.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
And and by the way, it's been the most fun craziest.
My life before was crazy. You should see it.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
Since this thing, it's been it's been a rollercoaster of
calamities and problems and all.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
And yet we like a Broadway show, it gets produced
every week and like it's just crazy. This place is looty.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Well, I bet you've seen a little bit of everything.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
So I mean when somebody comes down there, maybe walk
through a little bit Jerry of the experience of how
you guys do it differently and kind of what a
typical retreat looks.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Like for somebody that comes down to rhythmia.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
So you know, they get.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
Here on Saturday or Sunday. It's a one week program.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
We have.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
Two breathwork nights where they do breathwork. So there's a
you do a breathwork ceremony before the classes start. There's one, two, three,
four classes before you drink medicine. Then you drink medicine
Monday night, Tuesday night, wednesdaynight, Thursday night.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
There's integration every day. There's Michael Benard Beck with do
you know do you know who he is?
Speaker 2 (26:16):
He don't.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
He started the Agape Spiritual Center.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Oh yeah, yeah, that's part of your story in La, right, yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
In La, and he wrote a program called the Answers You.
So you have a few days of the Answers You.
There's a class almost all the time at Rhythmia, and
then you get out of classes and you go to ceremony,
and then the next day it's the same thing again
and again and again until the last night.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Thursday Night is.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
Is Columbia Night where it's a traditional Columbian ceremony and
it starts about seven o'clock and goes to eight o'clock
the next morning. It's a it's a long haul complete
with you know, ceremonial musicians and.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
You know, we have one hundred we have one hundred.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
And eighty four full time employees at Arrhythmia, and forty
five of them are in the medicine team. So I
mean that it's a room full of musicians and music
and healings and blessings, and then there's more after that.
There's still more class work and breath works and meditations
(27:33):
after that. So there's there's this whole week and by
the time they go home. I mean, you know, they
come in thinking whatever and they go out of here
like amazing, amabow.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
So I'm was unaware that it's that many employees that
you have there. So how many people are coming through
the center every single week between.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
A low of sixteen and a eye of ninety four
every week in it?
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (28:05):
And so one question I had is how do how
does this work? Expand like, do you have any expansion plans?
Is there a way to take it to more people?
Speaker 2 (28:13):
And have?
Speaker 1 (28:15):
You know, It's just I mean, there's so many people
on the planet and this really is like the only
place that that like you said, that is literally government legalized.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
And everything else.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
And I mean, what is the way to get more
people to have this this kind of an experience?
Speaker 4 (28:30):
So, I mean, you know, RFK is making big moves
in the United States, thank god, you know, because that
system and the more Iahwaski you do you you well
know this that the food chain in the drug chains
in the United States are all wrong. Oh yeah, and
(28:53):
it's been actually it's gone all over the world. Processed
food is everywhere, and thank god, the United States is
reeling that back in with that hopefully, But nothing happens overnight,
even in a government that's present, like in the United
(29:14):
States right now, it's still five years away, I believe
before Ayahuasca ceremonies are federally legal in the United States.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
So what we've done is we've.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
Made applications to other governments and are hoping to get
licensed in one or two more countries so that we
can do this because it's a it's a it really
is necessary when you look at what's going on and
you see just how much pain and division there is
(29:52):
in the world, and you.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
You know this to me right when you when you
do that medicine, it.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
It just shows you everybody else's perspective and why they
did what they did, and how unimportant it is and
how important good.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Tell me, well, I heard you'd say an example of
this once. I thought it was so good, I just
want to repeat it here. It's like normal when you're
just in your conscious self, you can see a flower
and you can kind of, you know, see the experience
of smelling a flower, touching a flower, whatever that might be.
But iahuasca helps you experience being the flower, and you
can be perfect and you can do that with the
(30:32):
people in your life, and all of a sudden you're like, oh,
my gosh, they're not an asshole, look what they were
dealing with, or oh, my parents are innocent, Like God
bless them.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
They did the best they could.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
And if you need to forgive somebody, or you need
to work through some traumas and some of these things,
there's just so much understanding goes into it when you
tap into this, and especially a guy.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Like you too, like you're a tough guy, right, and
in life, right, we come up in.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
The oppositional events that happen again and again and again,
and man, when you get to see some of these
events from the perspective of the other person, and not
only see it from that perspective, but feel what the
other person was.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Feeling, and you think, how could I have seen that
so wrong? You know, because I was actually wrong in
it and could have I would have bet my house
and my soul.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
There was only one way to see it, and I
was right. And then all of a sudden, you see
it from their perspective. You see it from your dad,
you know, your dad's perspective with you, or the neighborhoo
didn't cut the fence right, or whatever the thing is
and all of.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
That dissolves and goes away.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Yeah, I had a couple of people really close to
me that basically just our relationship was all but gone
at that point, was very strained, and I, like you said,
like I would have gone to my grave thinking that
I was in the right right And I got this
new perspective and I was looking at it and I
literally just started crying.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
I was like, they're so brilliant.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
And they are loving me in a way that no
other human actually could like it's and it was so perfect,
and I just like, I get emotional thing about it
right now because it's just like I could not have
been further off on the way I was viewing something
and the way that it really was. And it's really
helped me not get attached to my ideas and feelings
in life in general, because it's like I knew exactly
what I knew until I realized I didn't know shit,
(32:32):
you know. And so now all of a sudden, when
things come up, you're just like, I guess I'll just
kind of be open to the idea that maybe I
could be wrong on this, you know. And and I'll
be damned how many times my mind or my feelings
have shifted a little bit on something that I would
have dug my heels in before.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
Now how interesting too, that where life starts to get
a little bit easier is when we when were able
to act us a little bit more than we have
in the past.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
When when you when you.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
See that and you see it in yourself and you think,
holy shit, I would have never responded that way, And
what what did that? Well, my rudder got loosened up,
and I'm it allows me.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
Now to take bigger swipes, you know, when.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
I'm tacking right, and so just this is the way
we're going, and I don't care what the wind's saying,
and doesn't matter what like it. It allows you to
I don't experience life in a I don't like to
use the word softer because ayahuasca is not soft, but
in a softer way.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Yeah, in a more open way.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
Right.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Well, I think sometimes it's so easy to see what
other people are doing wrong, but we don't.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Here's part of the problem.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
The danger of life is like we don't know what
we don't know about ourselves, and so a lot of times,
you know, unless you're willing to do something like this,
a lot of times they just keep being blind spots,
you know, And it's been really fun for me. Most
of my best friends have, you know, we've been on
this journey together and it's just there's so much richness
to the conversation, so much depth, and we're such great
(34:16):
mirrors and friends for each other. Anytime one of us
is a little off, and I think we trust each
other because we've been watching each other work through these
things together and so we get to really help each
other anytime I'm off, like and I'm not seeing stuff.
Not only does the medicine kind of help me see
that when I took it, but it's like, I have
these other friends now and they're very good and I'm
very open to them because I trust their opinions. I
(34:38):
trust that I know the love, I know their intention right,
because a lot of times somebody will try to correct
you on something and it's their own ego. They're trying to,
you know, make you look small or whatever it might be,
and so you're like, I'm not going to listen to
that person. But when it's your buddies that you know
just have this purest love for you, all of a sudden,
you're like, I better listen to what they're saying.
Speaker 4 (34:55):
Yeah, and that's the thing to write. The medicine Actually,
when we fully commit to it and change, it changes
most people more than half of their friends group changes and.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
What they do with their time changes. Hey, when you
take alcohol.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
And I'm just going to use alcohol because she doesn't
do it to everybody. There are people that drink that
she allows to drink till they die. But if alcohol
is your crutch and you take that out of the mix,
and you have sixty percent of your time back, and
you know that creates this whole opportunity to rebuild a
(35:39):
life in a different way.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
Right.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
And the funniest thing with God, whatever God is. And
I want to talk about religion too, because it's an
interesting part of the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
But the interesting about God is.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
That it's constantly giving us new chances constantly. And you
know this for me, today is a new chance right now,
right we're having a new chance every new breath.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
You have a new chance starting at zero. And you know,
I get such wildly religious and non religious people here
that I have a.
Speaker 4 (36:23):
Bunch of Jews that come from northern New Jersey and
New York who are Orthodox who my one friend in
that friend group is eighteen years in rabbinic studies and
does the medicine, and it just brings everybody closer to God,
(36:44):
whatever that God is. All this does is bring you
closer to that God. And it even shows you religions
that people will feel are obtrusive or controlling or this
or that. When when the religion itself has a soul
and the religion itself has a life, and when you
(37:06):
see the purpose of the religion from the religion's point, all.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Of a sudden you get life. Pay that religion's fine.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
It's beautiful that you say that. In one of my ceremonies,
I think it was my fourth time I did it.
I was still looking for answers about like my own
religion that I had left and some of these things,
you know, which was Mormonism, and I.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Had the exact thing that you just shared.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
So what the message told me I was actually I
was speaking to my higher self and had this most
amazing conversation just talking to myself and getting all these answers,
and I finally I said, hey, I I'd really like
to be able to do this more often, Like how
can I have this experience without having to put in
so much effort to go do ayahuasca, travel to another country,
all these other things. And the message came back, well,
(37:53):
look at what you did to be able to have
this experience, the intention that you put into it. And
the message came back, everything is about the intention. And
so I said, Jimmy, think about it. The person that
goes in you know, the Muslim person that goes on
our voyage and they pray four times a day. The
Mormon that goes to the temple and fasts and does
(38:13):
all these things and spends hours going through the ceremony.
Of course they're reaching this same level of experience with
God that you're having right now. You had to do
these things to get here today. And so I was like, wait,
so it doesn't matter the religion, it's just the intention.
And it was like, exactly what, all knowing, all loving
God wouldn't honor these people that are searching so hard
(38:37):
with full intent to find God.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
And I was like, that makes so much sense to me.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
It's so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Yeah, And I said, wait, so like Mormonism, like people
are doing this thing and that of course it's a
good thing. Then she's like, of course, and they the
problem with one of the problems with religion that made
me laugh is like everybody feels like theirs is the
true one, because it is, but they missed the part
that everyone else's is too, because they're having such a
(39:03):
deep spiritual experience with God. They think it's because of
the form they're using to get to it, but it's
really the intention of just finding God.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
And I was like, oh my gosh, I.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Was blown away, and that day I have not had
a single negative thought or feeling towards any other religion
from that day forward, because I saw the beauty of like,
of course God needs these structures so that we know
how to find him in a society where otherwise how
else would you get to this spot?
Speaker 2 (39:30):
And so these religions they are set up to find God.
Speaker 4 (39:33):
When when and to that point? So you know, I'm
in love with Jesus. I've always been had this terrible
love for.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Jesus, right yep.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
And after I did.
Speaker 4 (39:46):
The Ihuaska and I did maybe I don't know sixty
or so journeys, I hadn't walked into a church and
I went to midnight Mass and I just started crying
because that ceremony of been my mass is a plant
medicine ceremony, Like it's the same thing I was just
(40:10):
in Dubai, and when I walked into a mosque, it
takes my breath away that people so loved God to
build these things like.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
It's We're amazing. And the craziest thing is this is.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
That the more people that I meet, and Jimmy, I've
had almost nineteen thousand people through rhythmia, and I met
them all. You know, I'm here eight or ten months
a year and I meet everybody that comes through here.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
But I met them all. And what my heart knows
is that the overwhelming vast majority of people are well intended.
And you know the you know you read. I don't
think we were ever supposed to know, like about world news.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Yeah, the world was a better place when you only
had to worry about the things that you can basically
were in your world.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
You know, the one hundred or two hundred people you know, correct,
almost nobody does anything horrible. It's not. It's only when
you start knowing about a thousand people at a time,
or ten thousand, or a million, or a billion or
seven billion, that these horrible things rise to the top
(41:36):
and become part of our consciousness that that you know,
this guy's over there killing children and these people are
stealing money and dota.
Speaker 4 (41:48):
You know, you're talking about one person out of a
million that you would never know, like your understanding of
who we are as human beings. The smaller the canopy gets,
the better the impression of.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
Human beings, right, because human beings are honestly.
Speaker 4 (42:09):
Beautiful, Like there's there's a lot of good, really good,
great people and.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
Yeah, ayahuasca makes.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
You see it wells such a beautiful thought. It really
is is I've always said that it kind of helps
you anytime you thought people maybe were working out of
bad intention or whatever else, it helps you understand, oh
they weren't they just they might not have the skills
you have, or they not be able to, you know,
express what they're trying their pain or whatever that might be,
(42:42):
but their intentions. Like you said, people are good and
I are good. I think that's same thing. You know,
there's very few people that aren't trying to be the
best versions of themselves, and they might not go about
it the right way. And when we don't feel like
we're enough, or we're not feeling loved like we can
do some weird things as human beings, but people want
to be good. They want to I think it's innate
(43:03):
in us as human beings to want to progress and
to do better.
Speaker 4 (43:08):
I completely believe that. I think that people really, most
people really want to be good people. And you know
you're part of the media, but the media sometimes just
wants to I guess, bad news sales newspapers, right, so.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
The worst thing that somebody.
Speaker 4 (43:35):
Did on their worst day is the headline, and then
everybody thinks, so, you know, these people are horrible or
these people are horrible, and then everybody's against everybody.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
In the medicine.
Speaker 4 (43:49):
The one beautiful thing about this medicine is it gets
you to understand compassion from the other side and then
look at if you're the object of what you're having
a problem with, if you transfer to that object, you
(44:09):
can actually look at yourself and have compassion for you
in it, which is wild.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
I had an experienced several years ago.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
It's the only thing I can compare to the feeling
you have on plant medicine without being on it. It
was about two thousand, like twenty twenty ten or eleven,
way before I ever discovered any plant medicines. But and
I had this. I was praying for God to show
me my dad in a way that I could love
him again.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
Things that happened.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
I hadn't talked him for over two years, and when
I saw him, I had this most profound, perfect love.
I felt similar on plant medicine towards people, but until
that moment, I'd never felt love like that for another human.
And the message was basically, this guy doesn't need you
to judge him, just love him. And literally got the
message the download I'm going to show you your dad
(44:59):
through my eye and it was the most profound love
I've ever felt. And I literally my thought is why
I thought of this Jerry. My next thought was, holy shit,
if God can love me or love my dad like this,
that's how he loves me. And even when I lost
my religion and everything else, I have never once in
my life for a second doubted the love that God
has for me, because in that moment I felt that
(45:20):
perfect love. And of course he does, but it was
just like, if you can love my dad, he can
love me. And so that was the moment I had
the most compassion and people say like, how are you
so compassionate? With yourself. How do you learn to love yourself?
How do you give yourself so much grace? I think
it was that moment, just knowing that God's doing that.
I know that God, when I screw up, he just
(45:40):
laughs at me and he's you know, he finds humor
in my mistakes, in my idiocy sometimes, but he loves me,
and he loves it, and he's okay with it. And
just knowing that really gives you a confidence to walk
and not be afraid to make mistakes.
Speaker 3 (45:55):
And that is and there is.
Speaker 4 (45:57):
That's what I call the money shot, right, The fact
that God loves me that much is enough.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
I get. I get humbled to the point of tears
that that in.
Speaker 4 (46:13):
My like ridiculous, you know, nitpicking of my own ship,
that that the thing that made me.
Speaker 3 (46:26):
Doesn't do that. The fact that made me loves me
beyond all words, and.
Speaker 4 (46:34):
And that that's the great thing about honestly, that is
a great thing about organized religion, because there is some
kind of system that draws us in.
Speaker 3 (46:46):
To a place where we're kind of forced.
Speaker 4 (46:50):
Two to entertain that message because without it, you're just
you know, you're just going to keep clouding.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
And you know, well that same time I was talking
to my higher self about religion, it manifests to me
my higher self.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
As Jesus, and so I asked, you know what was
were you real? Was Jesus a real person?
Speaker 1 (47:14):
And Jesus said yes, I had to come to show
everybody what it looked like to pursue your highest self.
And that's why people are trying to be like Jesus.
It's really we're all trying to be like our highest self.
I was like, oh my gosh, this is so profound.
But without my context and background of religion, you know,
without being raised in the church like I was, I
(47:34):
wouldn't have really had any context of what that even
looked like. And so I was really this moment of
gratitude of like, oh and that's what so to me,
Jesus was simply a person that a God that came
and gave us this example of reaching our highest self
and shooting for being our highest self at all times.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
One hundred percent and the gift of prayer. Like this
is the funny.
Speaker 4 (47:58):
Thing with the spiritual community too, is that that you know,
people sometimes have this intense uh huh iahwas experience and
they understand God. They really do they get this thing
that I for the first time understand God.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
I spoke to God and God spoke back to me.
Uh huh.
Speaker 4 (48:23):
But without something, without a daily practice, and that that moment,
that aha goes away. So they've got to do a
couple of different things. Right, We've got to do what
it tells us to do. If it says the reason
you're unhappy is because you're smoking cigarettes and feeling money
(48:48):
or whatever whatever you're involved in, to we've got to
do that. But then you've got to have a daily practice.
And that daily practice, in my opinion, has to include prayer.
Whatever you know, and I don't mean to it, don't
look at theirs. I just got done in the Middle
East and people are praying five times a day for
(49:09):
two hours a day. I could never even think.
Speaker 3 (49:13):
About that ship because I got too much to do.
But boyd to have like I'm great to meditate, great
to do breath work and all those things. But man,
take ten minutes a day and pray and that keeps me.
That forcing it. And you know when you have to
do it the most is when you fucking don't want
(49:35):
to do it. That's the time you have to go
and pray.
Speaker 4 (49:40):
And pray and so like. If you can get yourself
into a system of prayer, then ten.
Speaker 3 (49:47):
Minutes a day or five minutes here or whatever it is.
Then in addition to your other spiritual things. And I
want to tell you the religions, all the religions. You
name a religion and I'll tell you there's good guidelines
in that religion for how to be. So you just
can't be spiritual and say no, I don't love everybody.
(50:10):
And however, however it uh plays out, it plays out
if if your collateral damage in one of my lovings,
that's just it. It's not that way.
Speaker 4 (50:22):
There are rules, and the rules have to be adhere to.
You know, spiritual people hate rules. They want a life
without rules, a lot of spiritual.
Speaker 3 (50:33):
But there are rules. The commandments are a great start.
Speaker 4 (50:38):
There's there's all kinds of different things that I think
need to be in place in addition to plant medicine.
But boy, plan medicine as an entrede to those things
where we have societies that function more fairly, more cleanly,
(50:58):
and and help more people.
Speaker 3 (51:00):
You know.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
Yeah, now it's so well said. I it's funny.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
We've it's like the medicine is undefeated. It gives us,
you know, the same messages. I got to hear you say,
I'm so clear. I'm just smiling because it's like that
was some of the most profound things I ever learned
in my life. And it's really shaped all of my
views on how I can just love purely and let
certain things go and and so it's funny to know
that you've had that same you know, basically exact same
message received.
Speaker 4 (51:25):
And I have to tell you too, I was one
of the I was one of the guys who didn't
do what it told me.
Speaker 3 (51:32):
You know.
Speaker 4 (51:32):
I really had to learn that. You know, it's now God,
I did this. It's ten years since I did playing medicine,
and I tell you I had.
Speaker 3 (51:42):
The the and all I have to do in the
beginning was listen, just listen. But I wouldn't.
Speaker 4 (51:48):
I still wanted to do it my way. And it's
only honestly in the last year that I really have
started saying, Okay, I'm doing it your way, you know,
And it's made a huge difference.
Speaker 3 (52:06):
And I know people that come and do plan medicine
once here for a week and they.
Speaker 4 (52:11):
Go and surrender to God and do it God's way.
And they're so much happier than anybody else.
Speaker 3 (52:18):
That I know.
Speaker 2 (52:18):
Yeah, a few of us are pretty stubborn. I know myself.
Speaker 1 (52:21):
It's like the nice thing is, is I at least
know all the things I'm falling short on now. It's like, Jimmy,
at what point do you want to give that up
and actually do this the right way? And there's so
many times where and that's the beauty of you know,
being able to be on the path of doing that.
I am certain I'll see you. I'm sure down there
sooner than later. I do need to help so experience it.
(52:42):
For people that are interested, they're hearing this, Jerry, where's
the best place for us.
Speaker 2 (52:46):
To send them to get more information?
Speaker 4 (52:48):
There's www. Dot Rhythmia. It's r y t h M
I a dot com and everything is there. It tells
you how to do it, where to do it. But
Jimmy that I really got to know you. I would
love you to come down and drink with us. You'll
have a great time.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
Oh, there's no doubt.
Speaker 1 (53:09):
I've literally I mean we talked about this before the podcast,
but I've sent dozens of people down to you that
have had live changing experiences.
Speaker 3 (53:16):
So and some real good ones. You send some good
ones by way.
Speaker 2 (53:20):
I love it well, Jerry, thank you for your work.
Speaker 1 (53:22):
Thank you for doing this and honoring the medicine, doing
it in a safe, very just honorable way, and it
does make a big difference. I'm excited to come down
and experience it myself, and in the meanwhile, I'm sure
we'll stay in touch with my friend.
Speaker 4 (53:36):
Please come, I love to see you here and thank
you for having me Jimmy.
Speaker 3 (53:41):
It's a great honor for me.
Speaker 2 (53:43):
Thank you, sir.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
Thank you again for listening to the Jimmy Rex Show.
And if you liked what you heard, please like and subscribe.
It really helps me to get better guests, to be
able to get the type of people on this podcast.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
It's going to make it the most interesting.
Speaker 1 (53:56):
Also, wanted everybody about my podcast studio, The Rookery Studios,
now available in Salt Lake City and or in Utah.
If you live in Utah and want to produce your
own podcasts, we take all of the guests, work out
of it for you and make it so simple.
Speaker 2 (54:11):
All you do is you come in, you sit down,
you talk, and leave.
Speaker 1 (54:15):
We record it, edit it, even post it for you.
If interested in doing your own podcast. Visit our Instagram
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our website, The Rookery Studios dot com
Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Jimmy Rex Show.
Today on the podcast, we sit down with the founder
and CEO of Rhythmia.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
His name is Jerry Powell and he has a story
to tell.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
He also wrote a book called Shit the Moon Said,
a story of sex, drugs, and ayahuasca, and he just
has a fascinating story. He had a life changing experience
doing plant medicine and decided to set up a place
that is now the only place that is legal in
the entire country to go and do ayahuasca. And the
(00:34):
reason why it's so valuable is because it's one of
those things plant medicine. Now you know, there's the upside,
in the downside, there's the shadow side of plant medicine,
and done wrong, it can be very dangerous to dive
into these psychedelics. But what I would love about Rhythmia
and this is the place for anybody that ever asked
me if they should do ayahuascar, where I send them
to Rhythmia's website because that's the only place I know
(00:55):
of that I know they'll get a great experience or
a positive experience where that container is held for them. So,
without further ado, let's get to the podcast with the
founder of Arrhythmia, mister Jerry Powell. This week's episode is
brought to you by Bucked Up Supplements. I don't know
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Speaker 2 (01:18):
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Speaker 1 (01:20):
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(01:41):
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this episode brought to you by Bucked Up Protein.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Go check it out.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Jerry, you have had quite the life, my friend. I
seek my whole life to find interesting people, characters I
call them, and you are the utmost on top of
that list.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Like, what a fascinating life you've been able to live.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
It's been a rough one. I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
It's been a super challenging life in every aspect, and
you know, it keeps getting more challenging.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
They say that the whole point of trying to figure
out our challenges is God can give us bigger ones,
and so the problems we get to deal with, we
get to take on.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Bigger and bigger, more meaningful problems.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
I guess, yeah, it's it's I believe that to be true.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
I you know, I think that all of us inherently
are looking for a place to rest, and we figure
if we can just get over this one hill, there'll
be a valley there.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
But there's always just another hill.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
That's the beauty of life is it doesn't matter what
mountain you climb. The second you get there, you realize
the next mountain's coming, you know.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
And it's the truth.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
And I guess I'm from you know, my family were
my grandparents were very blue collar people, and and you know,
they they kind of believed in you know that place
to rest and retirement theory, but you know the that's
(03:25):
all history now.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, Well, a big part of the hero's journey is
once you do go and you reach the top of
that mountain, to come down and share it with others.
And I think that's what's so beautiful about your story
is you know, in the plant medicine aahuasca space, there's
a lot of fear, there's a lot of uncertainty, there's
a lot of people that don't understand it. And the
thing that I love about what you have done is
(03:49):
you have created a space for it to for sure
be the correct container to be done in a setting
that's safe, that's you know, that's taken away a lot
of the variables that cause problems in this space because
there's a shadow side obviously to plant medicine and iowas
and all these things.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
You know what's been beautiful even for me. I've never
been to Rhythmia.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I plan to get there one day, but I've probably
sent no joke, Jerry, I've probably sent fifty to one
hundred people to you guys, because the only place I
know of where I know they'll get a great experience.
Everything else there's a lot of variables, and it's not
worth the risk if you don't do it correctly. If
you're gonna dabble in this stuff, the last thing you
(04:30):
want to do is, you know, do it in a
setting that's not correct or safe, or doesn't have the integration,
you know, that doesn't really have the setup for you
to have a fut full experience.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
I agree, I agree completely.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
And you know, with the proliferation of plant medicine throughout
the world, whether it's syahwascar or psilocybin, whatever, it's so
important that the people that you're dealing with are responsible
people because it's just so easy. It's a because you know,
(05:04):
we're the only ones in the world with a governmental
license to do it.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
We're the only ones in the world.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
And in an unregulated environment, anybody can.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Do anything they want to do. They can they you know,
I know people, this is the truth.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
I know people that have probably drank ayahuasca five.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Or ten times and then and then.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Said that the medicine came to them and told them
that they were a shaman from previous lives and now
they're going to serve medicine. And that's kind of like saying,
you know, I drank the medicine and told me I
was a pilot in my previous life and tell.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Them a fly plane. Yeah it doesn't work like that.
You know, it doesn't work like that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Well, and I mean, I want to give some people
some perspective before we get into rhythmia and what you
guys do there and talk about Aahwaska itself. I'd love
to back into your story and I hope you never
get tired of telling you because it's such a beautiful story,
such a fascinating story.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Then you know, you've told this so many times, but.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
It really goes to show and for people that aren't
familiar with this space.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
So a lot of my listeners are a lot of
them probably aren't.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
I mean, rhythmia is the spot you go to get
the experience the correct way. Like there is no doubt
in my mind that your mission is one that God
called you directly to and the fact that you've been
able to execute it just goes to show the brilliance
of who you had to be ahead of time in
your business background allowed you to do this and set
it up in a way that it really has become
(06:38):
the place for people to go to in the entire
world for this very powerful and very life changing, you
know medicine which is aahuasca and.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
It really is that.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
I mean, we are humbled by by being given this opportunity. Myself,
I'm a guy either way too. I've done this. I
have three hundred and fifty four journeys. And the more
that I do, the less that I know. Just a
fact of life. The more that I do, the less
(07:13):
that I know. But the more centered you become, you know,
And I'm number one. I'm super lucky to be alive
because I should have been dead a long long time ago,
and I came. If you want me to tell you
a little bit about the story, I'll give you a
real a bridge version of it.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
And by the way, if anybody wants to get like
the full full version, you have a book called Shit
the Moon said, and you're really going to some details.
But yeah, maybe tell us just how lost you were
before I found the medicine and what led you to it, Jerry,
I was horribly lost.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
I was just a wreck of a person as an alcoholic,
a drug addict.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
I had done in business.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
I you know, from all appearances that looked like I
had everything.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
I sold a company for.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
Ninety million dollars that I owned eighty percent of, you know,
so I was financially good. But my life was a wreck.
And my wife of twenty years and my kids left me,
and I was suicidal, and I didn't know what was
wrong with me because I kind of did have everything.
(08:31):
I was still a young guy, and I had planes
and a bunch of cars and houses and stuff that
most people would be happy, and yet my whole life,
I was always set.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
I was always depressed.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
I was always trying to get out of myself, whether
it drugs, alcohol, sex, whatever. I was trying to get
away from me. And at the same time, I had
this great love for God, which was crazy as a Catholic.
And I was, you know, partying all the time. I
(09:07):
was married with ten girlfriends, and I was always in church.
It's just a strange life that I was living. And
when my wife finally left me, my first wife.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
I.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Broke and I ended up going to Passages Malibu. I
met this guy, doctor Jeff, who's my partner with me
right now. My business partner has been a partner of
mine for fifteen.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Years or whatever. But my life broke. I went fully
into addiction therapy and therapy. I was in therapy five
days a week with Jeff and two days a week
with another therapist. I went to church twice a week
(09:59):
at it got in Los Angeles. I did that for
five years and I didn't get any better.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
And then through a set of circumstances, I was in Borichai, Indonesia,
and I mean I was in Borichai in the Philippines,
and I got this connection to go to Costa Rica
and do this planned medicine. And the short story is
(10:28):
I went, I did this thing, and it showed me
what was wrong with me. It showed me why it
was wrong with me, and it gave me a path
to get out. And it kind of felt, if you
were old enough to remember FM radio, of being caught
between two stations and then getting into stereo for the
(10:52):
first time. And I immediately stopped doing drugs immediately, which
I never stopped my whole life. When when I say
there's a drug addict, I mean every day of my life,
I was on something, whether it was cocaine or xanax
or whatever whatever pill I could get a hold of whatever,
(11:14):
I was always on something, and immediately it stopped me
from that. It reduced my drinking of alcohol by eighty
to ninety percent. And that's a real that's a real number.
I was part of a drunk.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Study and so I know that it went down that
And eventually I completely stopped alcohol together from.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
It, quit smoking cigarettes, which was the hardest thing in
the world for me to do.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
And I felt this great love.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
For God and for this medicine because I was always
confused about those things, religion, God and what this was.
And I just thought, man, I have to be able
to to do this on a scale to help, you know,
tell more people. And and in that so many people
(12:12):
are running around depressed, suicidal, stuck, but with no hope.
And yet there is this thing that that bridges it
all together. And when I say bridges all together, I
mean bridges it all together.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
It really, it really does. And and I mean a
lot of people are afraid.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
I'm a I'm a Mormon, I'm a Catholic, I'm a Jew,
I'm this, I'm that, And I don't want to do
anything that's gonna make me.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Not of my religion anymore.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
And da da da da da, And this is nothing
like that. This is something that makes whatever is there
that's good, it makes it stronger, and the things that
aren't up, it gets rid of them.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
And it is really hard.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
I'm going to tell you, you do this medicine, and
all of the ways that your life isn't working are
going to be shown to you. And the quicker once
you integrate and get back on the trail, the quicker
you could do what this medicine said, the better because
because if it shows you fifty things that are wrong
(13:29):
and you don't address them, everything, it's like a fifty
car crash on a highway. It just gets wild. So
I understand sometimes when people want to do it, it's
their sixth sense whatever this thing is telling them that
(13:50):
if I do this, this is going to get real
awfully quick.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
You know, yeah, I've kind of.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
That's what I tell people is it's gonna basically, it's
going to show you the things that are out of
alignment in your life, and some of them it's going
to make you deal with it right there where you
you know, are going to basically be in an excruciating
pain and tell you realize what's causing that pain and
let it go. And then other things it's just going
to bring into your awareness. But for me, that's I
(14:18):
think what I've really appreciated about ayahuasca is it's almost
like a cleanser that allows you to see your own
bullshit that you really don't see before. You're blind to
the things, or you don't know why those things are there.
And so it's not so much I don't really to me,
I don't get you know. I know you've had a
lot of different visions and things like that on or
you see different things and I've never had that. But
(14:39):
for me, it's just it just shows me whatever the
thing is in my life, I don't want to look at.
It's funny because one time before a ceremony, I went
in and I literally said, there's two things I'm not
going to look at tonight, no matter what. This and this,
and I'll do that. I'll let you decide what two
things were on my mind the entire night. Right, it
was like the whole thing. And what was so cool
(14:59):
is one was the next girlfriend. One was a buddy
I used to have that I both felt like, you know,
betrayed me or whatever else. And for the woman, it
was just this purest love of like, oh she loved
you more than anyone else ever could. Like, she wasn't perfect,
and she screwed a lot of things up, but she tried,
Like in her broken stage, she tried the best, and
no one's ever tried to love you like that.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
I was like, damn.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
And then it was like, showed me all the progress
I'd made because of this woman that just forced me
to level up in all these different ways. And then
the buddy, you know, it was like I just had
the most empathy and love for this man that just
needed me to quit judging him and just love him.
And it was just this completely different lens I was
able to put on. By the time I walked out
of there, I'm texting my buddy, and I'm like, I'll
(15:42):
wait to text the ex.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Girlfriend because I know I'm in the medicine. I'm not
trying to get back with her. I just just want
her to know that I don't, you know. And so
I energetically just sent her love.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
I did the hope onwer'll prayer for and sent it
to her energetically instead.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
But my point is is, like, you know, it's in it.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Every time I do it, It'll show me thirty or
forty people in my life and what I need to
do to help them or how I can, you know,
strengthen my relationship or love them more or some of
those things. And again, one of the things about you
know iahwask in particular, that I'm very confident about, is
that it never gives you what you want, but it's
going to give you what you need if you go
in with the right intention. And it really does help
(16:20):
you connect. I think you called it like I call
it the higher self. It helps you to connect to
your higher self. It's really cool. I mean, I've had
two hour conversations with my higher self Jerry that were
as real is the one I'm having with you right now,
and it set things back to me that I know
wasn't me, and I was just like, well, there's no
way my ass was coming up with that, So I
guess I better pay attention to hear. And just some
(16:40):
really beautiful things that helped me have peace around the
religion that I used to be a part of and
left and really understand how that thing works as a
positive for other people in their lives and how I
could honor them and still honor my own journey when
I talk about it, And it just really helps me,
you know, it just has helped me a lot in
my life.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
And so it's one of those those things that.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
I don't and maybe this is a good place to
go with the conversation, but what is the appropriate way
or time or whatever to share things like this, because
it does, again, it does have its shadowside. And I
never don't say that because I think it's so important
people know not to mess around with this stuff, or
just do it casually, or do it in a setting
that's not sacred, because I've seen it work in ways
(17:23):
where it messed people up their entire life too or
ruin their whole life. And it's again, it's it's such
a thing to be honored and not mess around with.
And I think I probably overshared when I first did it,
and I was so excited that I probably told too
many people that they should try it. And I've since
completely backed off that and I more just let it
(17:43):
guide it to people. There's enough information out there now
like there wasn't when I first started doing this, and
now it's like people will find this if they're supposed to.
But like, being able to have this conversation with you
is my way of just saying look, guys, if you
are interested, this is the way.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
You do it.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
You go do it legally, you go do it with
this group that's going to protect you and take care
of the logistics so that you can just have a
beautiful experience.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
So one of the things that always tripped me out
is that, you know, on occasion, I don't go there
often because it seems like like these Facebook ayahuasca pages
and stuff where you get like lots of crack pots
without you know, just.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
One of the people that was, you know, attacking me
for doing plant medicine said, if it's so great, how
many psychos are doing it all the time and they
haven't changed at all. And I was like, I don't
really have a good argument against those because there's so.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Many other.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
People that order it from the internet and cook it
in their kitchen and do it on their couch, like and.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
I'm thinking, I just wouldn't even imagine. I couldn't even imagine.
But but what I do say is this is that
when you listen to a conversation like when I have it,
and if it draws you, my belief is that that
draw is from a soul.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
Your soul wants to get read aligned, and it's going
to pull you in.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
If you're not ready, it's not going to no amount
of no amount of how good you're going to feel
in ten days.
Speaker 4 (19:23):
Because I have to tell you what if somebody came
to me with the ayahuasca pitch twenty years ago, you
know what, I would have told them, get away from me.
I don't even want, Like you know, Jesus didn't do that,
Like I would have just got.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Rid of them. You know, I would have said, look,
and I'm going to go out tonight, get hammered, have
sex with someone other than my wife, and go to
confession on Saturday, and everything'll be okay.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
I don't want, you know, I just wasn't ready. But
when you are ready, your soul responds and pulls you in.
Ken Ken ayahuasca create problems for people and the wrong
set and setting, yeah it can. And and I'm not
(20:09):
even so much concerned about the after as I am
the before. So so you know, we have twenty hours
worth of instruction, you know, and in the week.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
That you're here before you ever take the medicine, you
mean eight hours.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
Before you take the medicine of full on instruction because
you know, learning how to drive the medicine and what
to expect. I have to tell you what I would
honestly would have shipped myself like if I didn't know
what was coming, because it can get wild in there,
It can get wild, you know, absolutely wild, and and
(20:49):
you know what, I what. You know, a lot of
people in the beginning were super pissed with us because
we used the word miracle. But but you know, I'm
from a place where you know, over ninety seven percent
of the people that walk through the door here claim
they had a miracle in their life. So that word miracle,
(21:16):
it's important, and I believe that everybody has the right
to it, right, so you can do ayahuasca. You know,
in life, in my opinion, either everything's a miracle or
nothing's a miracle.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
If you ever.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
Watch fucking tree grow and you don't think that's a miracle,
you're missing out on a lot of a lot of
what this life is about, right, truth, right, I mean
that's you know that the the oak trees in the acorn.
If that's not enough for you, then you know we're
not all right. But uh, you know, seeing these these
(21:57):
real miracles, you know, occur every week, week in and
week out from normal, normal, normal people to you know,
we have all kinds of celebrities and stuff come here right.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
And but it can happen to anyone, and it will
happen ninety seven and a half percent of the time
if you do it right, if you're properly prepared, if
you understand, if you're pay attention to the classes.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
I mean, you got to you got to do.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
It's a participatory event. Uh huh, So you got to
do your share. And then boy, once.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
You're done, that's when it starts. See that, look at
you know.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
The crazy thing is she tells you, oh, look, you know,
get away from this person, stop smoking crack, and stop
watching porn.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Okay, great, now go do it.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
The integration really is you know, it almost like you'll
be left in a worse spot if you don't integrate,
because you're now you're going to see everything.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
And if you're not willing to do the.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Work, you know, it's uh And people always say like, well,
can you get addicted to it?
Speaker 2 (23:10):
I said no, because it's not.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
It's work, Like it's really difficult to do it.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
It's work. But you hit it on the head. So
look at I go there she shows me everything. I
have to change and trade those things for a happy
life to do that trade, and I decided I'm not
ready yet. Boy gets all it gets all down strange
(23:37):
roads from that point on. You.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
I mean, you had you in your experience, you know,
you got told now go set up this retreat center.
I mean, how difficult was that to accept as like
your next thing that you were obviously you wouldn't did it,
And so I'd love to hear kind of how you
came up with the idea of how to do rhythm
and why and all that.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
I did forty more journeys where she explained how to
do it.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
And here's the crazy part. I was about ready to
open up a string of naked lady.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Bars exactly strip clubs. That's where I was. That was
my next venture. And I went from that because that
seemed like the right kind of retirement for where I
was at previous to do in the medicine. I went
from that to to opening a retreat center, you know,
(24:35):
and it was like it was the craziest.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Transition, you know, And I'm the last guy. Look, I'm
I'm I'm still a baffoon. I still you know, I
still am.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
Crude and sometimes harsh and all these things. And yet,
and yet, for whatever reason, I'm doing this.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
And and by the way, it's been the most fun craziest.
My life before was crazy. You should see it.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
Since this thing, it's been it's been a rollercoaster of
calamities and problems and all.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
And yet we like a Broadway show, it gets produced
every week and like it's just crazy. This place is looty.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Well, I bet you've seen a little bit of everything.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
So I mean when somebody comes down there, maybe walk
through a little bit Jerry of the experience of how
you guys do it differently and kind of what a
typical retreat looks.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Like for somebody that comes down to rhythmia.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
So you know, they get.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
Here on Saturday or Sunday. It's a one week program.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
We have.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
Two breathwork nights where they do breathwork. So there's a
you do a breathwork ceremony before the classes start. There's one, two, three,
four classes before you drink medicine. Then you drink medicine
Monday night, Tuesday night, wednesdaynight, Thursday night.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
There's integration every day. There's Michael Benard Beck with do
you know do you know who he is?
Speaker 2 (26:16):
He don't.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
He started the Agape Spiritual Center.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Oh yeah, yeah, that's part of your story in La, right, yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
In La, and he wrote a program called the Answers You.
So you have a few days of the Answers You.
There's a class almost all the time at Rhythmia, and
then you get out of classes and you go to ceremony,
and then the next day it's the same thing again
and again and again until the last night.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Thursday Night is.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
Is Columbia Night where it's a traditional Columbian ceremony and
it starts about seven o'clock and goes to eight o'clock
the next morning. It's a it's a long haul complete
with you know, ceremonial musicians and.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
You know, we have one hundred we have one hundred.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
And eighty four full time employees at Arrhythmia, and forty
five of them are in the medicine team. So I
mean that it's a room full of musicians and music
and healings and blessings, and then there's more after that.
There's still more class work and breath works and meditations
(27:33):
after that. So there's there's this whole week and by
the time they go home. I mean, you know, they
come in thinking whatever and they go out of here
like amazing, amabow.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
So I'm was unaware that it's that many employees that
you have there. So how many people are coming through
the center every single week between.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
A low of sixteen and a eye of ninety four
every week in it?
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (28:05):
And so one question I had is how do how
does this work? Expand like, do you have any expansion plans?
Is there a way to take it to more people?
Speaker 2 (28:13):
And have?
Speaker 1 (28:15):
You know, It's just I mean, there's so many people
on the planet and this really is like the only
place that that like you said, that is literally government legalized.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
And everything else.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
And I mean, what is the way to get more
people to have this this kind of an experience?
Speaker 4 (28:30):
So, I mean, you know, RFK is making big moves
in the United States, thank god, you know, because that
system and the more Iahwaski you do you you well
know this that the food chain in the drug chains
in the United States are all wrong. Oh yeah, and
(28:53):
it's been actually it's gone all over the world. Processed
food is everywhere, and thank god, the United States is
reeling that back in with that hopefully, But nothing happens overnight,
even in a government that's present, like in the United
(29:14):
States right now, it's still five years away, I believe
before Ayahuasca ceremonies are federally legal in the United States.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
So what we've done is we've.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
Made applications to other governments and are hoping to get
licensed in one or two more countries so that we
can do this because it's a it's a it really
is necessary when you look at what's going on and
you see just how much pain and division there is
(29:52):
in the world, and you.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
You know this to me right when you when you
do that medicine, it.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
It just shows you everybody else's perspective and why they
did what they did, and how unimportant it is and
how important good.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Tell me, well, I heard you'd say an example of
this once. I thought it was so good, I just
want to repeat it here. It's like normal when you're
just in your conscious self, you can see a flower
and you can kind of, you know, see the experience
of smelling a flower, touching a flower, whatever that might be.
But iahuasca helps you experience being the flower, and you
can be perfect and you can do that with the
(30:32):
people in your life, and all of a sudden you're like, oh,
my gosh, they're not an asshole, look what they were
dealing with, or oh, my parents are innocent, Like God
bless them.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
They did the best they could.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
And if you need to forgive somebody, or you need
to work through some traumas and some of these things,
there's just so much understanding goes into it when you
tap into this, and especially a guy.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Like you too, like you're a tough guy, right, and
in life, right, we come up in.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
The oppositional events that happen again and again and again,
and man, when you get to see some of these
events from the perspective of the other person, and not
only see it from that perspective, but feel what the
other person was.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Feeling, and you think, how could I have seen that
so wrong? You know, because I was actually wrong in
it and could have I would have bet my house
and my soul.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
There was only one way to see it, and I
was right. And then all of a sudden, you see
it from their perspective. You see it from your dad,
you know, your dad's perspective with you, or the neighborhoo
didn't cut the fence right, or whatever the thing is
and all of.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
That dissolves and goes away.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Yeah, I had a couple of people really close to
me that basically just our relationship was all but gone
at that point, was very strained, and I, like you said,
like I would have gone to my grave thinking that
I was in the right right And I got this
new perspective and I was looking at it and I
literally just started crying.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
I was like, they're so brilliant.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
And they are loving me in a way that no
other human actually could like it's and it was so perfect,
and I just like, I get emotional thing about it
right now because it's just like I could not have
been further off on the way I was viewing something
and the way that it really was. And it's really
helped me not get attached to my ideas and feelings
in life in general, because it's like I knew exactly
what I knew until I realized I didn't know shit,
(32:32):
you know. And so now all of a sudden, when
things come up, you're just like, I guess I'll just
kind of be open to the idea that maybe I
could be wrong on this, you know. And and I'll
be damned how many times my mind or my feelings
have shifted a little bit on something that I would
have dug my heels in before.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
Now how interesting too, that where life starts to get
a little bit easier is when we when were able
to act us a little bit more than we have
in the past.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
When when you when you.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
See that and you see it in yourself and you think,
holy shit, I would have never responded that way, And
what what did that? Well, my rudder got loosened up,
and I'm it allows me.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
Now to take bigger swipes, you know, when.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
I'm tacking right, and so just this is the way
we're going, and I don't care what the wind's saying,
and doesn't matter what like it. It allows you to
I don't experience life in a I don't like to
use the word softer because ayahuasca is not soft, but
in a softer way.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Yeah, in a more open way.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
Right.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Well, I think sometimes it's so easy to see what
other people are doing wrong, but we don't.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Here's part of the problem.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
The danger of life is like we don't know what
we don't know about ourselves, and so a lot of times,
you know, unless you're willing to do something like this,
a lot of times they just keep being blind spots,
you know, And it's been really fun for me. Most
of my best friends have, you know, we've been on
this journey together and it's just there's so much richness
to the conversation, so much depth, and we're such great
(34:16):
mirrors and friends for each other. Anytime one of us
is a little off, and I think we trust each
other because we've been watching each other work through these
things together and so we get to really help each
other anytime I'm off, like and I'm not seeing stuff.
Not only does the medicine kind of help me see
that when I took it, but it's like, I have
these other friends now and they're very good and I'm
very open to them because I trust their opinions. I
(34:38):
trust that I know the love, I know their intention right,
because a lot of times somebody will try to correct
you on something and it's their own ego. They're trying to,
you know, make you look small or whatever it might be,
and so you're like, I'm not going to listen to
that person. But when it's your buddies that you know
just have this purest love for you, all of a sudden,
you're like, I better listen to what they're saying.
Speaker 4 (34:55):
Yeah, and that's the thing to write. The medicine Actually,
when we fully commit to it and change, it changes
most people more than half of their friends group changes and.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
What they do with their time changes. Hey, when you
take alcohol.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
And I'm just going to use alcohol because she doesn't
do it to everybody. There are people that drink that
she allows to drink till they die. But if alcohol
is your crutch and you take that out of the mix,
and you have sixty percent of your time back, and
you know that creates this whole opportunity to rebuild a
(35:39):
life in a different way.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
Right.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
And the funniest thing with God, whatever God is. And
I want to talk about religion too, because it's an
interesting part of the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
But the interesting about God is.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
That it's constantly giving us new chances constantly. And you
know this for me, today is a new chance right now,
right we're having a new chance every new breath.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
You have a new chance starting at zero. And you know,
I get such wildly religious and non religious people here
that I have a.
Speaker 4 (36:23):
Bunch of Jews that come from northern New Jersey and
New York who are Orthodox who my one friend in
that friend group is eighteen years in rabbinic studies and
does the medicine, and it just brings everybody closer to God,
(36:44):
whatever that God is. All this does is bring you
closer to that God. And it even shows you religions
that people will feel are obtrusive or controlling or this
or that. When when the religion itself has a soul
and the religion itself has a life, and when you
(37:06):
see the purpose of the religion from the religion's point, all.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Of a sudden you get life. Pay that religion's fine.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
It's beautiful that you say that. In one of my ceremonies,
I think it was my fourth time I did it.
I was still looking for answers about like my own
religion that I had left and some of these things,
you know, which was Mormonism, and I.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Had the exact thing that you just shared.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
So what the message told me I was actually I
was speaking to my higher self and had this most
amazing conversation just talking to myself and getting all these answers,
and I finally I said, hey, I I'd really like
to be able to do this more often, Like how
can I have this experience without having to put in
so much effort to go do ayahuasca, travel to another country,
all these other things. And the message came back, well,
(37:53):
look at what you did to be able to have
this experience, the intention that you put into it. And
the message came back, everything is about the intention. And
so I said, Jimmy, think about it. The person that
goes in you know, the Muslim person that goes on
our voyage and they pray four times a day. The
Mormon that goes to the temple and fasts and does
(38:13):
all these things and spends hours going through the ceremony.
Of course they're reaching this same level of experience with
God that you're having right now. You had to do
these things to get here today. And so I was like, wait,
so it doesn't matter the religion, it's just the intention.
And it was like, exactly what, all knowing, all loving
God wouldn't honor these people that are searching so hard
(38:37):
with full intent to find God.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
And I was like, that makes so much sense to me.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
It's so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Yeah, And I said, wait, so like Mormonism, like people
are doing this thing and that of course it's a
good thing. Then she's like, of course, and they the
problem with one of the problems with religion that made
me laugh is like everybody feels like theirs is the
true one, because it is, but they missed the part
that everyone else's is too, because they're having such a
(39:03):
deep spiritual experience with God. They think it's because of
the form they're using to get to it, but it's
really the intention of just finding God.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
And I was like, oh my gosh, I.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Was blown away, and that day I have not had
a single negative thought or feeling towards any other religion
from that day forward, because I saw the beauty of like,
of course God needs these structures so that we know
how to find him in a society where otherwise how
else would you get to this spot?
Speaker 2 (39:30):
And so these religions they are set up to find God.
Speaker 4 (39:33):
When when and to that point? So you know, I'm
in love with Jesus. I've always been had this terrible
love for.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Jesus, right yep.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
And after I did.
Speaker 4 (39:46):
The Ihuaska and I did maybe I don't know sixty
or so journeys, I hadn't walked into a church and
I went to midnight Mass and I just started crying
because that ceremony of been my mass is a plant
medicine ceremony, Like it's the same thing I was just
(40:10):
in Dubai, and when I walked into a mosque, it
takes my breath away that people so loved God to
build these things like.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
It's We're amazing. And the craziest thing is this is.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
That the more people that I meet, and Jimmy, I've
had almost nineteen thousand people through rhythmia, and I met
them all. You know, I'm here eight or ten months
a year and I meet everybody that comes through here.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
But I met them all. And what my heart knows
is that the overwhelming vast majority of people are well intended.
And you know the you know you read. I don't
think we were ever supposed to know, like about world news.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Yeah, the world was a better place when you only
had to worry about the things that you can basically
were in your world.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
You know, the one hundred or two hundred people you know, correct,
almost nobody does anything horrible. It's not. It's only when
you start knowing about a thousand people at a time,
or ten thousand, or a million, or a billion or
seven billion, that these horrible things rise to the top
(41:36):
and become part of our consciousness that that you know,
this guy's over there killing children and these people are
stealing money and dota.
Speaker 4 (41:48):
You know, you're talking about one person out of a
million that you would never know, like your understanding of
who we are as human beings. The smaller the canopy gets,
the better the impression of.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
Human beings, right, because human beings are honestly.
Speaker 4 (42:09):
Beautiful, Like there's there's a lot of good, really good,
great people and.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
Yeah, ayahuasca makes.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
You see it wells such a beautiful thought. It really
is is I've always said that it kind of helps
you anytime you thought people maybe were working out of
bad intention or whatever else, it helps you understand, oh
they weren't they just they might not have the skills
you have, or they not be able to, you know,
express what they're trying their pain or whatever that might be,
(42:42):
but their intentions. Like you said, people are good and
I are good. I think that's same thing. You know,
there's very few people that aren't trying to be the
best versions of themselves, and they might not go about
it the right way. And when we don't feel like
we're enough, or we're not feeling loved like we can
do some weird things as human beings, but people want
to be good. They want to I think it's innate
(43:03):
in us as human beings to want to progress and
to do better.
Speaker 4 (43:08):
I completely believe that. I think that people really, most
people really want to be good people. And you know
you're part of the media, but the media sometimes just
wants to I guess, bad news sales newspapers, right, so.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
The worst thing that somebody.
Speaker 4 (43:35):
Did on their worst day is the headline, and then
everybody thinks, so, you know, these people are horrible or
these people are horrible, and then everybody's against everybody.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
In the medicine.
Speaker 4 (43:49):
The one beautiful thing about this medicine is it gets
you to understand compassion from the other side and then
look at if you're the object of what you're having
a problem with, if you transfer to that object, you
(44:09):
can actually look at yourself and have compassion for you
in it, which is wild.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
I had an experienced several years ago.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
It's the only thing I can compare to the feeling
you have on plant medicine without being on it. It
was about two thousand, like twenty twenty ten or eleven,
way before I ever discovered any plant medicines. But and
I had this. I was praying for God to show
me my dad in a way that I could love
him again.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
Things that happened.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
I hadn't talked him for over two years, and when
I saw him, I had this most profound, perfect love.
I felt similar on plant medicine towards people, but until
that moment, I'd never felt love like that for another human.
And the message was basically, this guy doesn't need you
to judge him, just love him. And literally got the
message the download I'm going to show you your dad
(44:59):
through my eye and it was the most profound love
I've ever felt. And I literally my thought is why
I thought of this Jerry. My next thought was, holy shit,
if God can love me or love my dad like this,
that's how he loves me. And even when I lost
my religion and everything else, I have never once in
my life for a second doubted the love that God
has for me, because in that moment I felt that
(45:20):
perfect love. And of course he does, but it was
just like, if you can love my dad, he can
love me. And so that was the moment I had
the most compassion and people say like, how are you
so compassionate? With yourself. How do you learn to love yourself?
How do you give yourself so much grace? I think
it was that moment, just knowing that God's doing that.
I know that God, when I screw up, he just
(45:40):
laughs at me and he's you know, he finds humor
in my mistakes, in my idiocy sometimes, but he loves me,
and he loves it, and he's okay with it. And
just knowing that really gives you a confidence to walk
and not be afraid to make mistakes.
Speaker 3 (45:55):
And that is and there is.
Speaker 4 (45:57):
That's what I call the money shot, right, The fact
that God loves me that much is enough.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
I get. I get humbled to the point of tears
that that in.
Speaker 4 (46:13):
My like ridiculous, you know, nitpicking of my own ship,
that that the thing that made me.
Speaker 3 (46:26):
Doesn't do that. The fact that made me loves me
beyond all words, and.
Speaker 4 (46:34):
And that that's the great thing about honestly, that is
a great thing about organized religion, because there is some
kind of system that draws us in.
Speaker 3 (46:46):
To a place where we're kind of forced.
Speaker 4 (46:50):
Two to entertain that message because without it, you're just
you know, you're just going to keep clouding.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
And you know, well that same time I was talking
to my higher self about religion, it manifests to me
my higher self.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
As Jesus, and so I asked, you know what was
were you real? Was Jesus a real person?
Speaker 1 (47:14):
And Jesus said yes, I had to come to show
everybody what it looked like to pursue your highest self.
And that's why people are trying to be like Jesus.
It's really we're all trying to be like our highest self.
I was like, oh my gosh, this is so profound.
But without my context and background of religion, you know,
without being raised in the church like I was, I
(47:34):
wouldn't have really had any context of what that even
looked like. And so I was really this moment of
gratitude of like, oh and that's what so to me,
Jesus was simply a person that a God that came
and gave us this example of reaching our highest self
and shooting for being our highest self at all times.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
One hundred percent and the gift of prayer. Like this
is the funny.
Speaker 4 (47:58):
Thing with the spiritual community too, is that that you know,
people sometimes have this intense uh huh iahwas experience and
they understand God. They really do they get this thing
that I for the first time understand God.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
I spoke to God and God spoke back to me.
Uh huh.
Speaker 4 (48:23):
But without something, without a daily practice, and that that moment,
that aha goes away. So they've got to do a
couple of different things. Right, We've got to do what
it tells us to do. If it says the reason
you're unhappy is because you're smoking cigarettes and feeling money
(48:48):
or whatever whatever you're involved in, to we've got to
do that. But then you've got to have a daily practice.
And that daily practice, in my opinion, has to include prayer.
Whatever you know, and I don't mean to it, don't
look at theirs. I just got done in the Middle
East and people are praying five times a day for
(49:09):
two hours a day. I could never even think.
Speaker 3 (49:13):
About that ship because I got too much to do.
But boyd to have like I'm great to meditate, great
to do breath work and all those things. But man,
take ten minutes a day and pray and that keeps me.
That forcing it. And you know when you have to
do it the most is when you fucking don't want
(49:35):
to do it. That's the time you have to go
and pray.
Speaker 4 (49:40):
And pray and so like. If you can get yourself
into a system of prayer, then ten.
Speaker 3 (49:47):
Minutes a day or five minutes here or whatever it is.
Then in addition to your other spiritual things. And I
want to tell you the religions, all the religions. You
name a religion and I'll tell you there's good guidelines
in that religion for how to be. So you just
can't be spiritual and say no, I don't love everybody.
(50:10):
And however, however it uh plays out, it plays out
if if your collateral damage in one of my lovings,
that's just it. It's not that way.
Speaker 4 (50:22):
There are rules, and the rules have to be adhere to.
You know, spiritual people hate rules. They want a life
without rules, a lot of spiritual.
Speaker 3 (50:33):
But there are rules. The commandments are a great start.
Speaker 4 (50:38):
There's there's all kinds of different things that I think
need to be in place in addition to plant medicine.
But boy, plan medicine as an entrede to those things
where we have societies that function more fairly, more cleanly,
(50:58):
and and help more people.
Speaker 3 (51:00):
You know.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
Yeah, now it's so well said. I it's funny.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
We've it's like the medicine is undefeated. It gives us,
you know, the same messages. I got to hear you say,
I'm so clear. I'm just smiling because it's like that
was some of the most profound things I ever learned
in my life. And it's really shaped all of my
views on how I can just love purely and let
certain things go and and so it's funny to know
that you've had that same you know, basically exact same
message received.
Speaker 4 (51:25):
And I have to tell you too, I was one
of the I was one of the guys who didn't
do what it told me.
Speaker 3 (51:32):
You know.
Speaker 4 (51:32):
I really had to learn that. You know, it's now God,
I did this. It's ten years since I did playing medicine,
and I tell you I had.
Speaker 3 (51:42):
The the and all I have to do in the
beginning was listen, just listen. But I wouldn't.
Speaker 4 (51:48):
I still wanted to do it my way. And it's
only honestly in the last year that I really have
started saying, Okay, I'm doing it your way, you know,
And it's made a huge difference.
Speaker 3 (52:06):
And I know people that come and do plan medicine
once here for a week and they.
Speaker 4 (52:11):
Go and surrender to God and do it God's way.
And they're so much happier than anybody else.
Speaker 3 (52:18):
That I know.
Speaker 2 (52:18):
Yeah, a few of us are pretty stubborn. I know myself.
Speaker 1 (52:21):
It's like the nice thing is, is I at least
know all the things I'm falling short on now. It's like, Jimmy,
at what point do you want to give that up
and actually do this the right way? And there's so
many times where and that's the beauty of you know,
being able to be on the path of doing that.
I am certain I'll see you. I'm sure down there
sooner than later. I do need to help so experience it.
(52:42):
For people that are interested, they're hearing this, Jerry, where's
the best place for us.
Speaker 2 (52:46):
To send them to get more information?
Speaker 4 (52:48):
There's www. Dot Rhythmia. It's r y t h M
I a dot com and everything is there. It tells
you how to do it, where to do it. But
Jimmy that I really got to know you. I would
love you to come down and drink with us. You'll
have a great time.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
Oh, there's no doubt.
Speaker 1 (53:09):
I've literally I mean we talked about this before the podcast,
but I've sent dozens of people down to you that
have had live changing experiences.
Speaker 3 (53:16):
So and some real good ones. You send some good
ones by way.
Speaker 2 (53:20):
I love it well, Jerry, thank you for your work.
Speaker 1 (53:22):
Thank you for doing this and honoring the medicine, doing
it in a safe, very just honorable way, and it
does make a big difference. I'm excited to come down
and experience it myself, and in the meanwhile, I'm sure
we'll stay in touch with my friend.
Speaker 4 (53:36):
Please come, I love to see you here and thank
you for having me Jimmy.
Speaker 3 (53:41):
It's a great honor for me.
Speaker 2 (53:43):
Thank you, sir.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
Thank you again for listening to the Jimmy Rex Show.
And if you liked what you heard, please like and subscribe.
It really helps me to get better guests, to be
able to get the type of people on this podcast.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
It's going to make it the most interesting.
Speaker 1 (53:56):
Also, wanted everybody about my podcast studio, The Rookery Studios,
now available in Salt Lake City and or in Utah.
If you live in Utah and want to produce your
own podcasts, we take all of the guests, work out
of it for you and make it so simple.
Speaker 2 (54:11):
All you do is you come in, you sit down,
you talk, and leave.
Speaker 1 (54:15):
We record it, edit it, even post it for you.
If interested in doing your own podcast. Visit our Instagram
and send us a DM Rookery Studios, or go to
our website, The Rookery Studios dot com
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