August 13, 2025 • 41 mins
In this episode of The Jimmy Rex Show, Jimmy sits down with Traver Boehm — founder of the Man Uncivilized movement, men’s coach, and author of Man Uncivilized, Today I Rise, and his newest book 28 Days in Darkness. After divorce, miscarriage, and business collapse, Traver began a journey to rediscover who he was, leading to extreme self-discovery practices — including 28 days and later 49 days in complete darkness — to confront his deepest truths.
They discuss men’s struggles with disconnection from themselves, others, and something greater, and how distractions like alcohol, porn, and constant busyness keep them from facing life’s big questions. Traver shares practical ways to reconnect, create a personal “user manual” for thriving, and remove numbing habits.
Jimmy and Traver also explore heartbreak and divorce as opportunities for transformation through honesty, accountability, and intentional growth. From building the life you truly want to redefining masculinity, this episode offers raw, challenging, and inspiring guidance for men seeking purpose and clarity.
They discuss men’s struggles with disconnection from themselves, others, and something greater, and how distractions like alcohol, porn, and constant busyness keep them from facing life’s big questions. Traver shares practical ways to reconnect, create a personal “user manual” for thriving, and remove numbing habits.
Jimmy and Traver also explore heartbreak and divorce as opportunities for transformation through honesty, accountability, and intentional growth. From building the life you truly want to redefining masculinity, this episode offers raw, challenging, and inspiring guidance for men seeking purpose and clarity.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Jimmy Rex Show.
Today on the podcast, we sit down with Traver Boom
and he is the founder of Man Uncivilized, a men's
coaching program. He also has written several books, one with
the same title, one called Today I Rise, another one
called twenty eight Days in Darkness that launch us here soon,
where he talks about his experience of spending twenty eight
(00:24):
straight days in complete darkness. He actually just finished another
similar event where he sat for forty nine days. I
can't imagine, but we talk about all of it on
the podcast. We go into a deep We talk about
some men's issues, some things that we've both learned running
men's coaching programs. This conversation I definitely enjoyed and am
excited to share with you. So without further ado, let's
get to the podcast with Trevor Boom. Also, today's episode
(00:47):
is brought to you by Bucked Up Protein. Speaking of
manly things, drinking enough protein is one you guys need
to get and this has one hundred calories and twenty
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pick these up at Harmon's or anywhere. We're Bucked Up again,
that is bucked up protein. So with that, let's get
to the show. Dravor, thanks for being here on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Man, my pleasure brother. Good to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
You know, you went on a journey several years ago
to figure out a question. I love this this question,
But you said, who am I as a man? And
I'd love to hear what you figured out. My goal
in life is to help men find themselves, become more
connected to themselves, therefore they could connect to everybody else
in the world itself, And so I'd love to hear
(01:38):
a what inspired this journey and what you discovered about yourself.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I think it's a classic tale. Jimmy, I lost everything right,
I had a divorce, had a miscarriage, my business partnership
fell apart. This is all like a couple months, but
turned up before I turned forty, and so I had
lived up what I figured was the halfway point of
my life. Very unconscious, I'd never you know. I looked
(02:06):
at my external results and went, well, I make a
lot of money, I have six percent body fat, I'm
married to a beautiful woman. Like, what could possibly be
wrong with my life? Oh? I drink every night, I
smoke a ton of dope. I look at a ton
of porn. If there's ever a question in my marriage,
I get defensive and I shut down and I yell,
and I'm like working multiple jobs, I don't sleep. All
(02:27):
of these things that were quote wrong, but I just thought, Hey,
this is this is normal. I'm a dude. I'm supposed
to drink. I'm supposed to get high, I'm supposed to
look at porn. I'm supposed to be reactive. I had
not been initiated into consciousness yet, and so boom, waking
up on rock bottom one day, I was like, well,
(02:50):
a lot of shit just happened, and I'm the central
player in this drama, So I can blame the universe, God,
my ex wife, my ex business partner, or whatever I
want to blame or say, Huh, this is a really
big opportunity for me to start asking different questions and
perhaps challenging the ways I had been raised and doctrinated culturally, societally, familiarly, geographically.
(03:17):
And I just had this question of, well, shit, who
am I without that business? So question a lot of
men have to answer. Even more men have to answer,
who am I not now that I'm not that woman's husband?
And then shit, if I'm gonna go for those two,
I was like, I might as well just keep going, right.
Who am I as a person? You know, that's a
(03:38):
lifelong quest. Who am I as a man? I'd never ever,
ever been No one had ever asked me that question.
And I get a lot of guys. I'm sure you
get a lot of guys. Or I'll even say you
need to know who you are and what you're about
as a man, and I'll get this kickback. Guys would
be like, you know what, brother, I'm a human. I
(04:00):
get that you are, but I'm going to tell you something.
It's a big thing. You're also a man, and so
you have a playbook, you have a design style. You
have ways in which you are more potent in the
world or ways that you are more collapsed in the
world that have nothing to do with food, shelter, water,
or roof over your head, the basics of being human.
(04:23):
Once you've got that taken care of, you have this
beautiful privilege to go cool. I'm a man. Now what
does that mean to me? How do I exist in
the world? How do I want to exist in the
world as a man? Right? These are these are big
philosophical questions. That the beauty of rock Bottom is that
you got a lot of time on your hands. So
(04:43):
I did some thinking.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
I think that's the part of it that most people
never give themselves enough time to actually sit with those
questions or sit with those thoughts, to even sort of
let the noise clear out long enough to get some
of those answers.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yeah, man, And I remember Jimmy, my divorce attorney was
a woman, and I had been with her for a year.
It took me like over a year to get divorced,
even though it was simple. And I explained to her
what I was going to go do for the next year,
which was this whole year long project called the Year
to Live Project, volunteering in hospice, getting in the dark,
(05:21):
going to survival school, like making some amends with people,
bringing my family together. And she goes, do you realize
that the average time it takes for a man whose
wife left him to be dating the next woman he'll
propose to is under six weeks?
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
And I was like six At the six week mark,
I was still like throwing up and you know, not
being able to get out of bed. You're you're dating
the next woman you proposed to. So there's this beautiful
thing in in space, but it is it is uncomfortable.
There's a discomfort for you. In was a discomfort for
me too, And I want your listeners to think, Oh wow,
(06:02):
I'm just some unique snowflake. No, it sucked. I wanted
to start dating, I wanted to rebuild another business. I
wanted to get my I wanted to get back all
of the things I had lost. But felt like there
was this big opportunity to sit in the void long
enough to go, let's get some new answers here. So yeah, how.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Long did it take when you started, you know, sitting
with this before you started to really unravel some of
it and get some of your answers?
Speaker 2 (06:30):
By two years? Man long? Two years like one. I
had to get over the trauma of the situation, and
I had some stuff starting to come through. I got sober, right,
I got off porn, I stopped smoking dope. I went, huh,
let me get around some intentional men, and let me
get around some good teachers. Holy shit, where were these
guys for the first forty years of my life? Oh
(06:52):
they were right there. I just couldn't see them. And
so I went deep in it, man. I think that's
the that's the call. If you want to get a depth,
full answer, you got to go deep, right. I just
came out of forty nine days in the dark, man,
and I'll tell you I didn't get my deepest answers
until day forty two forty three. Now, think about that
(07:15):
alone in isolation, no light. It took seven weeks to
get to where I wanted to go. Most guys getting
divorced are already dating their next chick, and I'm still
sitting in the dark by myself trying to figure some
shit out. O.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Hold on, honest thing. I mean you so when you
did this the first time, I know, you wrote your
book that's coming out here in a couple of weeks
called twenty eight days in Darkness. So you did it
again and went forty nine days. As I were.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Saying, yeah, I just I haven't even been out a month.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Wow. So all right, I want to hear about this
because I signed up for a four day one once
and I signed up for it place up in Oregon,
and I go onto one of Aubrey Marcus's events and
asked him about it, and he, you know, he had
his documentary and he gave me the place to sign up,
and I but my mistake I made is I signed
up like it was like in the end of June,
(08:03):
and I live in Utah. I'm like, why would I
go do this at the best time of the year
with the weather. I'm going to wait till January when
I want to get the hell out of Utah anyway,
where it's already dark for twenty hours a day here anyways.
And so I went to re sign up and it's
like a two year wait in the winter, and so
I have conveniently put it off, but it, you know, scary.
The thought of it was really scary. And so I'd
(08:25):
love to hear a little bit. I've never really talked
to anybody that's had this experience, especially twenty eight days.
That's insane, by the way. I'd love to hear kind
of what the experience was like. You know, you can
kind of preface a little bit of what's in the
book and get us excited for that. I'd love for
my listeners to learn from that.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Thank you man. It is it's a hard thing to describe. Jimmy.
I want you to imagine right now, after this call,
you go lock yourself in your bathroom and you don't
come out for two months and you can't see. Someone
takes care of your food. So that's that's like handled.
Your basic human needs are handled. But there's literally nothing
(09:05):
else to do but eat, sleep, and shit. That's it
and that doesn't take up a lot of time. So
the way I view it now, the first time, the
twenty eight days were like I'll describe it as like
a month long car accident because I was still fresh
of the trauma of the divorce, fresh in the trauma
of the miscarriage, fresh in the trauma of leaving the business,
(09:28):
fresh into sobriety. So like all of this shit was
coming up, like from my past, from my family of origin,
from my childhood. Anything you think you've buried, brother, it's
still in there. And when you got nothing to do, like,
I can't describe the the violence of monotony. It never
(09:54):
gets any less dark or any more dark. It's the same.
There's twenty four hours in a day, no matter what,
doesn't matter if it's day one or day forty nine.
There's nothing to fucking do. So what does your psyche do?
My psyche is like, sweet, let me crack my neck
and bring up some hard shit for this dude depth
to sit with, and it would be all of the
(10:16):
stuff I didn't want to think about, how I had
fucked up my marriage, how many times I'd lied to
my ex wife, what it must have been like for
her to come home and find me drunken high on
the couch as a health practitioner, right, even this last
one where I wasn't coming out of this situation, it
was more of who do I want to be in
(10:37):
the next twenty years of my life. I'm about to
turn fifty. That's a big question if you actually sit
with it, if you get quiet enough to take your
phone off, no music, nothing to see, no distractions, The
body's taken care of. Man, we get access to a
depth that we simply cannot get access to with our
(10:58):
eyes open. No one's going to get to. Like, oh,
I meditate three times a week for twenty minutes. That's beautiful.
I was meditating four to five hours a day. Think
about all the shit that's in you, that's you may
have dealt with, you may not have dealt with, or
you think you've dealt with. Like I checked that. I
checked that box, and it's like, well, have we let's
(11:21):
let's sit with it for five fucking straight days with
no break, same conversation going through your head, same video,
same memory, same stuff. Right, So this the book, the
book isn't just like it would be boring as shit
if I was like hey, and then on day three
I sat there, you know, and then on day four
(11:42):
is still sitting there. Man, this is we're flying. But
all of these things had come up, and that year
I was on going into the dark, I volunteered in hospice,
so I sat with people who are dying. Right, I've
relived with some of my own, Like shit, I've had
some addictive property here and some challenges. Let me oh,
I'm gonna have to relive all of that. So it's
(12:04):
a real Have you ever done plant medicine? Yes, it's
like that, but for a month.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
I've heard it drops DMT when you sit in darkness
long enough. Is that accurate? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
I had some hallucinations in the twenty eight day one.
It did not in this last round. But I'll tell you, man,
I'd been told like day eleven, it's coming day eleven,
So like every day it was like four days till
day eleven, and then day eleven was like, where's the movie,
Where's Endless Summer or some you know, acid trip? Nothing,
But then when it did come, it was stuff I
(12:36):
didn't want to see. And that's tough because there's no break,
Like right now, if we get in an argument and
we end this podcast, really, you can go get on Instagram,
you can talk to your partner if you have one,
you can play with your kids if you album. You
can go walk in a park to calm yourself down. Now,
if you get in an argument with someone in a
pitch black room and there's nothing to do and it's
(12:59):
eighteen hours to you get fed again, when that's the
next brit logical break and you've already pissed twice and
you're not sleepy, you're gonna sit with everything that came up. Man,
And and now why do I why do why do
men do this? And why do men need to do this?
Because we're so easily distracted and the world calls on
(13:21):
us to be distracted. Right we're the doing species. Women
are often more of the being species. So even if
we do have space and I have no shade on this,
we fill it with stuff. We go to the gym,
we have fantasy football, we watch TV, we play video games,
like we fill our time, we do stuff, But then
(13:41):
how much time do we give to introspection, to these
big questions, to contemplation, which I think used to be
a lot of the way of men. We'd sit around
and think about.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Shit and even fishing or right.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Hunting or yeah, yeah, we sit in the woods. That's right.
We know now like guys can't take a shit without
looking at their phone. Yeah, so yeah, it's it's a ride,
you know. It's interesting. Jimmy this last round, when I
came out, the woman who guided me, she guided me
both times ten years apart, said do you realize this
(14:15):
is ninety five percent men who do this? It's like,
no kidding, She's like, yeah, Well, the darkness is the
divine feminine, and Yin and Yong theory and Chinese medicine
are like black is feminine, So you're in the womb
of the feminine for how long too? There If you
want to get esoteric, like get your chills in my arm,
(14:36):
there's that too. So for a lot of us, just
sitting still is in power is impactful. So I'd say
for the four day man, if you sign back up,
go longer because here's what happens. You'll sleep for the
first two days.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
That sounds nice.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Actually, you know, are you a parent?
Speaker 1 (14:56):
No?
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Not okay, you know any parents I've had been like bro, yes, yeah, the.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Dark Mistry trade again. He's like, did you go last weekend?
Speaker 2 (15:10):
You just come out all happy and refreshed.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
That's funny. Well, it's one of those things, you know,
I try to get to three or four different masterminds
or advents a heere. I host about a dozen myself,
and so it's you know, I just doing the one
last weekend. I did one three weekends ago. You know,
it's and so for me, it's balancing. I always want
to be a student. I want to be learning more.
Like some people might hear you and be like, well,
(15:34):
if it was so impactful the first time, why'd you
have to go back? And I get it, like you're
always You're the kind of person that sounds like it's
just always going to be pushing yourself, always going to
want to get to another level. And also it's not
like once you learn something, you you know you can't
gain more insight from doing similar things. And you know,
it's funny because I had a mentor about two and
(15:54):
a half years ago, and he said to me, he said,
Jimmy said, we find God in silence, solitude, and and
you know it's we don't give ourselves enough space in
this and so what I've really worked hard to do
is find that in my life. And I live about
ten minutes from the mountains, thankfully, and so I can
get into the mountains in about, you know, fifteen minutes
and just go sit on a log, don't bring your phone.
(16:15):
In just an hour a week alone is you know,
can really help you get some clarity on things that
are happening. And we just don't do that. Like you said,
this world is designed. Every single thing around us is
trying to steal our attention. It's an every game. It's
that's the number one you know. Yeah, currency currently is
(16:35):
just trying to get people's attention. And so the more
that we give that up to things that don't deserve it,
the more we're doing it at our own despise.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
It's crazy, man, Imagine coming out of seven weeks, I
sat in an airport and was like, this place is
insane and everybody in here is insane. And then I
went into Whole Foods when I came back to Colorado
and was like, holy shit, this place is fuck and bonkers.
What are we doing?
Speaker 1 (17:03):
In your defense, I've gone to Whole Foods just on
a Saturday. I thought these people is pretty weird.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
But and I'm in Boulder, Colorado, which is not a
war zone. You know, this is like hippieville. Yes, our
society is designed. You've you nailed it. And I think, men,
it's easiest to grab our attention because we're so visual,
we're so easily stimulated.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Well, it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
You know.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
I got a couple of my closest buddies and one
he has three kids now and he's deep in his
family and his business. He's growing. He's an entrepreneur. Another
one that runs a multi billion or sorry, multimillion dollar company.
And another guy that you know, the kind of guy
that had to move to Puerto Rico for taxes. He's
just busy. They're doing life. And he sent me a
text last week he said, hey, man, I don't think
we're doing fantasy football this year. And we have this
(17:50):
league that and for me, it's just like we've always
loved it because it's connecting and it's all those things
and I sat there when I got the text, and
I was like, you know what that feels, right, I'm
good with that. It's like I used to think that
my fall evolved around watching football, and you look back,
you know, do I really care who won the Georgia
LSU game? Do I really care who won the game
(18:12):
of my team? You don't. And we'll spend so much
time of our lives just distracting ourselves or trying to,
you know, somehow justify that we're not wasting that time.
So we really put our full heart and effort into
this thing that really doesn't matter at all. And I
think getting older it gives you more hindsight. You like,
(18:33):
start looking at you know, these things I thought were
so important ten fifteen years ago, and you look at
it now and you just laugh. You're like, it never mattered.
Sure as hell felt like it really mattered back then.
You coach so many men now, and it's something that
and I have in common. What is making it? I
know one of the things you said your goal is
to end the suffering and men. So I'd like to
(18:54):
dive into that a little bit. What is causing suffering
and men?
Speaker 2 (18:57):
In today's world, they're disconnected from themselves. Number one, Then
they're disconnected from something bigger. And I don't care if
you call that God. I don't care if you call
that nature. I don't care if you call that the
soul of the world. I don't care what you call it.
But you go sit in the woods for an hour
outside of Utah or outside of your town, you are
(19:17):
connecting to something bigger than you. You are also connecting
to yourself. You said it. In an hour, you may
get insight even if you get no epiphany moment. You've
just spent time with yourself. Most guys can't handle being
in their bodies for more than ninety seconds. They simply can't.
(19:41):
And I'm not shitting on men. I was that way
in my marriage. I was that way ten years ago.
I couldn't sit still. It was either caffeine, weed, alcohol,
something like don't let me drop below my collarbone into
my body. So I'd say, first and foremost, we don't
know who the fuck we are, because if we did,
(20:02):
a lot of the external things that we've oriented ourselves
around and our life around would probably change. And that's
a real ill hard proposition. If it cost you four
years of grad school, to get the law degree, and
Dad thinks you're the best lawyer in the world, and
he always wanted you to be a lawyer. But if
you drop down into your heart and you're like, man,
(20:23):
I just want to play the guitar and go surfing
Costa Rica. Now I feel that for he feels that,
for a fraction of a second, has to pop back
up into his head, look at Instagram, look at something,
and blah blah blah blah blah. So there's a deep
lack of authentic intentionality. And I'm using I know these
things like coaching words or et cetera, but really it
(20:45):
comes down to, guys, are you living the life you
want to live? Now, Jimmy, we have to deconstruct some
of the things, right, Like I grew up on the
East Coast. You had to go to college. If you
didn't go to college, you were a failure. I remember
my my mom sitting me down on the bed as
like a seven year old and being like, if you
don't get a master's degree, you'll amount to nothing in
this world. Now, I had to deconstruct that after getting
(21:09):
a master's degree and be like, wait a minute, I
thought this was the road to happiness. It wasn't so really.
Men are suffering for a number of reasons, but I
can frame it all around relationship. They don't have a
relationship to themselves. They don't have a relationship to something bigger.
If they're in an actual relationship, be that romantic or other,
(21:30):
probably romantic. They don't know how to be relational. How
do we stay connected? My mentor calls it being in
contact Dewey Freeman connect. Can you feel your partner? Can
they feel you? Are you guys in the same relationship?
Great question. I've worked with a lot of couples, brother,
and at the end of an hour, I'm like, you
(21:51):
guys are dating or you're married, but you're in way
separate relationships. Is this guy living the life he wants
to live?
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Go ahead, a couple of the things that you help
coachman on to get more connected to self and then
get more on the same page in their relationship.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
To get connected to stuff, you got to remove the
things that are taking you away from self. And guys
get pissed at me. Man, I'm like, you want to
work with me, You're not drinking anymore. Just go ninety days.
If you can't go ninety days. First of all, there's
some questions.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Yeah, you got every year, actually seventy five days where
I don't drink at all, because if I can't do that,
I got a problem.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Right, It's a big thing. And I'm not trying to
get guys sober. I'm just trying to say, here are
the facts. These are the things that take you out
of your body, away from your own thoughts. Social media, weed,
video games, porn, alcohol. Trust me, you go four days
about any of those, you will radically change your life
as a man because you'll go, holy shit. I kind
(22:50):
of have a feel for who I am again. Right,
this is a set of questions I ask men. That
is both to answer to both of your questions. What
do you need in your life specifically as a man
to thrive? I need jiu jitsu. That's a weird thing
to need. If I don't have jiu jitsu, do I die? No?
(23:13):
I don't die. But do I am I less than
who I could be? Am I less happy? Do I
not sleep as well? Do I start thinking about choking
people and Trader Joe's I do?
Speaker 1 (23:23):
So?
Speaker 2 (23:23):
I need jiu jitsu. I need to surf again. Am
I gonna die? If I don't surf, no, but I
know if I'm doing jiu jitsu, if I'm surfing, if
I'm writing, if I'm engaging in kinky sex every once
in a while, these are that's kind of like my
user manual. So I know that. Now I'm forty nine
years old, I know if I'm like, well, what's going on?
Why aren't I sleeping? Why am I feeling a little
(23:43):
bit squirrelly. I need to get on the mat. I
need to go back to the ocean. You need to
plan a surf trip. I need to start write. Oh,
I've been writing sales copy and not anything from my heart.
I need to write. I need to tie somebody up now.
When I get in relationship, as opposed to just being
like I don't know why I'm all fucking squirrely and
all over the place with you, I can say, hey,
(24:04):
here's my user manual. Does this work for you? Are
you okay being with the guy who needs jiu jitsu,
who needs the ocean, who needs to tie you up
every once in a while, who needs to write for
an hour every day. If you're not, I'm not the
right person for you. If I am and you catch
me getting squirrelly. You may go, hey, guess what, I
(24:25):
can feel something's off with you. When was the last
time you got on the mat? Or hey, I noticed
that you've been working so much for the last month,
you haven't been training. You should probably go get on
the get in the gym. So most guys, though, when
I asked that question, Jimmy, you know, I get the
like puppy dog head turn, like what do I need
as a man? I've been told being a man is shameful,
(24:48):
it's weak, it's this, it's real men eat bake and
real men love Jesus, Real men do such and such.
Not talking about real Throw that word right out the window.
What do you need as a man to be successful
and thrive in this world? That takes some introspection.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
But I'll also tell you a lot of people, you know,
they don't They don't have any idea what the answer
to these questions would be right. And it's one of
the things when you do go sit in silence, or
you go do this, have some of these questions top
of your mind and kind of think about them for
a second. Wait, what what do I truly enjoy? When
am I happiest? Where am I settling. What do I
do that I don't want to? You know, what emotion
(25:27):
am I trying to experience when I do this or that?
Or what am I trying?
Speaker 2 (25:30):
That's a great question.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
What am I trying to block? What what emotion am
I not wanting to have come through? Or you know
where am I still not loving myself or judging myself
and really just being able to pull back a little
bit in doing it with just intentionality.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
But you use the word intentionality, man, that's that's that
these questions aren't answered like between scrolls on social media. Yeah,
not answered sitting on the toilet in ten minutes, like
go take a walk in the woods, go spend three
days in a cabin like our I think our fathers
and grandfathers and like the writers of old they used
(26:06):
to go disappear for like six weeks. And I get
that there's probably a father listening to this, Like, great
bront you don't have kids. That's why you can say this. Well,
if you got an hour in the morning, or you
got an hour unless those kids go to bed at midnight,
you may have an hour. And if you're in a
relationship and you said to your partner, I guarantee you
if you said, hon, I'm going to go spend an
(26:27):
hour with a journal and a deep question. I don't
think a lot of women are gonna get upset, yeah,
or men. I don't care how you roll. Any partner's
gonna be like, Wow, you're gonna go know yourself a
little bit better, beautiful, bring me something back from that.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Yeah. I just this last week, I was I'm obsessed
right now with cabins in the woods and getting out
there more. And I found time Share. I was a
realtor in my previous career, and so I have access
to the MLS still, and I saw this cabin share
and you get it for about five or six times
a year if you go three days at a time, Yeah,
(27:00):
two hours for my house. It's perfect. It's something you
went iss which were my favorite mountains for eight thousand
dollars and normally was twenty three thousand. The guy who's
just fired or something hasn't used it in two years.
And so I bought it, and I'm like, this is
going to force me to have five or six times
a year that for three days I'm going to go
to this cabin buy myself in the woods and find
that time to just disconnect it. I'm so happy about it.
(27:21):
It was like, you know, is the perfect thing that
I've been looking for. I don't have to worry about
a cabin to have all the time. I literally stole
this thing, basically, and so I'm super pumped about It's
exactly what you're saying, is like, get away to a
cabin for two or three days. And I did two
years ago. I went to a cab. I left my
phone at my house, which might have been a little
scary for some people, but it went, you know, about
(27:43):
an hour away, and I just sat there for two
days and just by myself and just let's come through.
And I journaled more. I'd read more than I'd read
in months, you know. And so I.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Think, especially for guys over thirty five, it's easy for
us because we used to this. I spent the nineties
without a cell phone, right. It's spent a lot of
time fishing, a lot of time sitting on back porches,
staring off into the woods.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
And believe it or not, it was better than that.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
It was there so many things were better than you know,
when you like, I think beak as a society in
nineteen ninety nine is the year I always say, maybe
the last year I didn't have a cell phone.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
It's so true and you and I think even for
younger guys, you'll have twenty four hours of squirreliness, but
then your system will literally drop you back in. I
told you. During that year, I did a month long
survival program in Utah, you know, Boulder, Utah, Boulder out
the Survivor School.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Yeah, and they're very almost signed up multiple times.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
For that, so good. The very first night it was
a month long course, they take us out into the
wilderness and go, hey, guys, we're going to leave you
here for two hours. All we want you to do
is stare up at the sky and think about this.
We're not teaching you anything. We're reintroducing you into your
natural habitat. You've been here for thousands and thousands of years,
(29:05):
this little, tiny, tiny blip of society. And then it's say,
in the last twenty years, which is like a microsecond
in the human evolution timeline, since nineteen ninety nine till now,
things have just gotten crazy in the last three years,
since since twenty nineteen, I mean pre pandemic, things were
much different. Than they are now your biology will remember
(29:27):
phelt was and that's when you actually get to again
you want a deep answer, you got to let that depth.
Doesn't give a shit how busy you are. It's gonna
go cool. I'll just go sit in the corner and wait.
And if you want me to wait fifteen twenty years,
I will well.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
And that's the truth of the matter is is our
body is the more you study all this, your body's
just hanging on to stuff and you don't even know
it's there. It's like just hanging out. And at any
point that's why I love breath work. About every two
out of three times I do it, nothing happens. But
that third time it'll pop out that thing that I
(30:04):
never knew was there haunting me for the last ten years,
you know.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Right, and it slaps you in the face and you go,
I can't believe I couldn't feel that, see that, know that,
and it was right there, just sitting in the corner.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Yeah. I want to cover something you talk a little
bit in one of your books today I rise. You
talk about getting over breakup and divorce, and I think
this is an important topic. I really want to dive
into this sure. I don't know if the best way
to do it's bald points or rapid questions or whatever.
But like for guys that are in this position, I
think it's one of the hardest places to be in life.
You feel like everything's crumbling, nothing matters, you can't even
(30:37):
function sometimes when you're in that place. If you've truly,
you know, been in love with this person, you're losing.
And so I'd love to hear what you learned in
what you teach in that book.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
First of all, it just sucks, and it's universal, like
there is no pain like heartbreak, and divorce is such
a brutal experience, and I think it often gets downplayed
for men. They're like, hey man, you just got to
start fucking someone else. You just got to get over this,
like go to the gym. And so first, let's acknowledge
(31:11):
that this is a major, major life change. I started
seeing a Youngian analyst, Jimmy, when I was getting divorced,
and I was like, hey, man, is this a big deal,
because this has really effing me up, And he goes,
I have guys coming in here twenty five years after
the divorce that it's still messing with them. So just recognize.
Gentlemen listening to this, I want to say a couple things.
(31:35):
It is an initiation and that's a big word. And
an initiation means one, you are severed from the reality
that you knew. Number two, your identity is often completely
decimated or completely changed. And number three, you know intuitively
you can never go back to the reality that you
had before. Now, everything that I just described is also
(31:58):
how we would categorize trauma like legit trauma. The difference
is if you can have people around you to hold
you during this experience or if you can hold yourself,
you will change through the experience. That's why you're going
through it. So I don't want to downplay the pain.
What I want to tell men is the pain has
(32:19):
a purpose. You will not be the same and good.
So here's what you do. You get real and honest, right.
I called the guy Jimmy was like, I think I'm
gonna quit drinking and he's like, cool, tell me about it.
And I was like, God, you know, I'm not an
alcoholic blah blah blah, but I used to smoke a
lot of dope. And at the end of the call,
(32:40):
he's like, you know what, people who who smoke enough
dope or it doesn't affect them, their wife doesn't leave them.
And I was like, ah, shit, thanks for calling me
out on that. So I quit smoking dope, quit drinking right.
I looked at the places in my own life that
I said, even if she never comes back, I want
to use this pain as fuel to change those things.
(33:04):
And if I can look at pain as fuel, holy shit,
I just got given a double dose of fuel. So
I can lie on my back miserable, hating myself, depressed,
which some days just go for it, let it happen.
Or I can say, you know what, I'm gonna change
my life, parts of my life, and I'm gonna use
this suckery. I'm gonna I'm down here on rock bottom, beautiful.
(33:28):
That's when you get to the base levels. You're in
the foundation. Now you're doing deep work down there, and
do that. Figure out the shit you want to change
about your life. Now. The last point this is a biggie,
get a life, and I'm not saying that to be
harsh to you. Guys. Go experience life. Recognize that the
(33:50):
world is a big place, and there's a lot of opportunities,
and there's incredible things happening every single day, and yes,
you're gonna have to drag yourself to some of them
because your heart is broken and you feel nauseous, and
you feel like everything would just be so much better
if she came back, or she called you, or she
apologed or whatever it is, and your mind is racing.
(34:13):
You gotta build yourself a new life. You got to
try stuff you'd never tried before. Take a cooking class,
get in the best shape of your life, learn a
new language, change your business, go to a workshop, join
a mastermind, get around guys too. This is a biggie.
I got around guys who'd been divorced and they're like,
(34:34):
guess what, it sucks. It's like, oh, thank god, thank
you for being honest. And there's another side to this. Now.
You don't get to the other side until you acknowledge
that it sucks. If you're one of those guys, that's
just like, I'll just drink through this, I'll just fuck
through this. I'll just get high through this. And six
if you're one of the six week dudes that my
(34:55):
divorce attorney was talking about, you'll most likely be right
back here in two years. Yeah, so use it. Gentlemen
like one. My heart aches for you man in that
book Jimmy, I tell guys, this was I wrote it
ten years ago, so I didn't know shit from shit
about marketing or whatever. But I put my email address
in it and I was like, hey, email me ten
(35:18):
things that are amazing about you. I know today's the
worst day of your life, but guess what, there's still
some cool shit about you. And ten years later, I
still get these emails and they just make me cry
because guys will be like, you know what, I'm a
good cook. I play a really good Stairway to Heaven
on the guitar, like I'm a good father, I was
(35:39):
a kind man, I'm a kind man. And I'm like, see,
there's still so much to you other than the fact
that this person is no longer in your life. I
wish I could like shake men by the shoulders because
eight out of ten male suicides come from divorce or
a breakup. That's a big number. And go, brothers, there's
another side to this, trust me. But you have to
(36:02):
be willing to go through hell. You have to. You
don't have to go through hell alone, though, and you
get to learn all along the way. It took me
out to I'll be honest with you, man, it took
me about six seven years before I was like, I'm
so grateful that woman left me right kicking and screaming
(36:22):
for the first three years, how could you do this?
How could you do this? And now I look at
my life and like, holy shit, my life is crazy amazing.
It is the life I wanted when I was married.
And do you know how many guys I've worked with
over the past decade who now have the life they
actually wanted in their hearts and their souls and their guts,
(36:45):
but they didn't have in their marriage, and they too fought,
kicked and screamed like how do I get her back?
How do I get her back? How do I get
her back? I just want her back? And now they're like,
I wouldn't take her back, and if she came with
a million dollars.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
An interesting thing happens when you do work on yourself.
You're going to realize that that version of you that
loved that person, that it was needed for that time,
but you no longer even would be connected if you tried,
and so you're able to move on because you realize
that that person is you're just not even the same
humans that once were together. And it's very freeing to
(37:20):
be able to kind of have that recognition.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Yeah, I would tell guy like, please, guys like, don't
go down the woman hating red pill.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
That's the worst thing you can do is start the
personal accountability has to be at the forefront of everything.
It's interesting. We I just got back this weekend. I
had a retreat on a houseboat in a lake pow
Utah and Arizona, and one of the guys, you know,
he's deciding if he's going to stay in his marriage.
And he's all he did is told us all the
things that he didn't like about his marriage. And I
(37:51):
just said, hey, all right, what are three things that
you're doing in the marriage to cause the problems? And
he named two and then he started skirting around all stuff.
I said, hold on, hold on, I haven't even heard
a third thing from you yet. And he was having
a hard time coming up with his own fault in this,
and I mean everyone else sitting there and we could
totally see it. We're like, I could come up with ten.
(38:11):
But you know, it was really beautiful to like watch
him into his credit. I talked to him later that night.
He said, I'm putting a lot of thought into this, man,
I really want to see I think I've missed my
own culpability in this. It's because that's the first way
to overcome anything, is to realize that you're If you're
the problem, then you can be the solution. If it's
out of your hands. It's pretty hopeless situation. And so
(38:34):
that personal responsibility, I agree. And blaming women or thinking
that they're the problem, I mean it is you that
you have to be smart enough to know that you
are the problem. Even if that particular woman caused your
problems and her problems to become a giant problem, it's
still you that has the problem in that sense, because
either the problem was you chose the wrong person, or
(38:54):
the problem is you weren't showing up the way that
you needed to in that relationship to make it work. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Some of the best piece of advice I got was
from a guy named Tom Elsener who was a therapist,
who said, you're one hundred percent responsible for your fifty
percent of the relationship period. I don't want to hear
about what she did. I want to know you, what
did you do? And you're not one hundred percent responsible
for the demise of the relationship, even if she's telling
you it's all your fault and you did this one
(39:22):
hundred percent responsible for your fifty percent. And I remember
him telling me, like, give me this top seven things
she said of the reasons she left that were about you,
and then pick three of them and go to talent,
go to war with them. Right, you're not present cool,
Go get and present you were. You weren't sober cool,
Go get sober you were angry, Go to angry to
(39:45):
deal with that, because guess what the next woman you're with,
who you invest your time, your money, your energy, your
life for us with that, Shit's not going to change
unless you change it.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
And on thousand percent, dude, I'm excited to read this
new book. I'm going to read it and then decide up,
I'm going to go do the forty or the twenty
day or whatever I do myself. Where do we pick
up the new book Twenty Days in Darkness? Also, you
have another book called Man on Civilized I didn't get
to but just do an amazing work. Man. I want
people to experience these books and to be able to
learn more for themselves. So where do we send them?
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Head to men on Civilized dot Com forward slash twenty
eight days and you can get the book. You can
get a pdf. You can see the video of the
room I was in ten years ago. I do have
a video of the room I was in three weeks ago,
but I'm not putting that out just yet. So a
man Oncivilized dot Com forward slash twenty eight days.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
Well thanks brother man.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
I keep doing great work and we'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Thanks man, thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
Thank you again for listening to the Jimmy Rex Show.
And if you liked what you heard, please like and subscribe.
It really helps me to get better guests, to be
able to get the type of people on this podcast.
It's going to make it the most interesting. Also, wanted
to everybody about my podcast studio, The Rookery Studios, now
available in Salt Lake City and or in Talk. If
(41:01):
you live in Utah and want to produce your own podcast,
we take all of the guests, work out of it
for you and make it so simple. All you do
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We record it, edit it, even post it for you.
If interested in doing your own podcast, Visit our Instagram
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our website, therookri Studios dot com
Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Jimmy Rex Show.
Today on the podcast, we sit down with Traver Boom
and he is the founder of Man Uncivilized, a men's
coaching program. He also has written several books, one with
the same title, one called Today I Rise, another one
called twenty eight Days in Darkness that launch us here soon,
where he talks about his experience of spending twenty eight
(00:24):
straight days in complete darkness. He actually just finished another
similar event where he sat for forty nine days. I
can't imagine, but we talk about all of it on
the podcast. We go into a deep We talk about
some men's issues, some things that we've both learned running
men's coaching programs. This conversation I definitely enjoyed and am
excited to share with you. So without further ado, let's
get to the podcast with Trevor Boom. Also, today's episode
(00:47):
is brought to you by Bucked Up Protein. Speaking of
manly things, drinking enough protein is one you guys need
to get and this has one hundred calories and twenty
five grams of protein in every can, So you can
pick these up at Harmon's or anywhere. We're Bucked Up again,
that is bucked up protein. So with that, let's get
to the show. Dravor, thanks for being here on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Man, my pleasure brother. Good to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
You know, you went on a journey several years ago
to figure out a question. I love this this question,
But you said, who am I as a man? And
I'd love to hear what you figured out. My goal
in life is to help men find themselves, become more
connected to themselves, therefore they could connect to everybody else
in the world itself, And so I'd love to hear
(01:38):
a what inspired this journey and what you discovered about yourself.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I think it's a classic tale. Jimmy, I lost everything right,
I had a divorce, had a miscarriage, my business partnership
fell apart. This is all like a couple months, but
turned up before I turned forty, and so I had
lived up what I figured was the halfway point of
my life. Very unconscious, I'd never you know. I looked
(02:06):
at my external results and went, well, I make a
lot of money, I have six percent body fat, I'm
married to a beautiful woman. Like, what could possibly be
wrong with my life? Oh? I drink every night, I
smoke a ton of dope. I look at a ton
of porn. If there's ever a question in my marriage,
I get defensive and I shut down and I yell,
and I'm like working multiple jobs, I don't sleep. All
(02:27):
of these things that were quote wrong, but I just thought, Hey,
this is this is normal. I'm a dude. I'm supposed
to drink. I'm supposed to get high, I'm supposed to
look at porn. I'm supposed to be reactive. I had
not been initiated into consciousness yet, and so boom, waking
up on rock bottom one day, I was like, well,
(02:50):
a lot of shit just happened, and I'm the central
player in this drama, So I can blame the universe, God,
my ex wife, my ex business partner, or whatever I
want to blame or say, Huh, this is a really
big opportunity for me to start asking different questions and
perhaps challenging the ways I had been raised and doctrinated culturally, societally, familiarly, geographically.
(03:17):
And I just had this question of, well, shit, who
am I without that business? So question a lot of
men have to answer. Even more men have to answer,
who am I not now that I'm not that woman's husband?
And then shit, if I'm gonna go for those two,
I was like, I might as well just keep going, right.
Who am I as a person? You know, that's a
(03:38):
lifelong quest. Who am I as a man? I'd never ever,
ever been No one had ever asked me that question.
And I get a lot of guys. I'm sure you
get a lot of guys. Or I'll even say you
need to know who you are and what you're about
as a man, and I'll get this kickback. Guys would
be like, you know what, brother, I'm a human. I
(04:00):
get that you are, but I'm going to tell you something.
It's a big thing. You're also a man, and so
you have a playbook, you have a design style. You
have ways in which you are more potent in the
world or ways that you are more collapsed in the
world that have nothing to do with food, shelter, water,
or roof over your head, the basics of being human.
(04:23):
Once you've got that taken care of, you have this
beautiful privilege to go cool. I'm a man. Now what
does that mean to me? How do I exist in
the world? How do I want to exist in the
world as a man? Right? These are these are big
philosophical questions. That the beauty of rock Bottom is that
you got a lot of time on your hands. So
(04:43):
I did some thinking.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
I think that's the part of it that most people
never give themselves enough time to actually sit with those
questions or sit with those thoughts, to even sort of
let the noise clear out long enough to get some
of those answers.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yeah, man, And I remember Jimmy, my divorce attorney was
a woman, and I had been with her for a year.
It took me like over a year to get divorced,
even though it was simple. And I explained to her
what I was going to go do for the next year,
which was this whole year long project called the Year
to Live Project, volunteering in hospice, getting in the dark,
(05:21):
going to survival school, like making some amends with people,
bringing my family together. And she goes, do you realize
that the average time it takes for a man whose
wife left him to be dating the next woman he'll
propose to is under six weeks?
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
And I was like six At the six week mark,
I was still like throwing up and you know, not
being able to get out of bed. You're you're dating
the next woman you proposed to. So there's this beautiful
thing in in space, but it is it is uncomfortable.
There's a discomfort for you. In was a discomfort for
me too, And I want your listeners to think, Oh wow,
(06:02):
I'm just some unique snowflake. No, it sucked. I wanted
to start dating, I wanted to rebuild another business. I
wanted to get my I wanted to get back all
of the things I had lost. But felt like there
was this big opportunity to sit in the void long
enough to go, let's get some new answers here. So yeah, how.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Long did it take when you started, you know, sitting
with this before you started to really unravel some of
it and get some of your answers?
Speaker 2 (06:30):
By two years? Man long? Two years like one. I
had to get over the trauma of the situation, and
I had some stuff starting to come through. I got sober, right,
I got off porn, I stopped smoking dope. I went, huh,
let me get around some intentional men, and let me
get around some good teachers. Holy shit, where were these
guys for the first forty years of my life? Oh
(06:52):
they were right there. I just couldn't see them. And
so I went deep in it, man. I think that's
the that's the call. If you want to get a depth,
full answer, you got to go deep, right. I just
came out of forty nine days in the dark, man,
and I'll tell you I didn't get my deepest answers
until day forty two forty three. Now, think about that
(07:15):
alone in isolation, no light. It took seven weeks to
get to where I wanted to go. Most guys getting
divorced are already dating their next chick, and I'm still
sitting in the dark by myself trying to figure some
shit out. O.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Hold on, honest thing. I mean you so when you
did this the first time, I know, you wrote your
book that's coming out here in a couple of weeks
called twenty eight days in Darkness. So you did it
again and went forty nine days. As I were.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Saying, yeah, I just I haven't even been out a month.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Wow. So all right, I want to hear about this
because I signed up for a four day one once
and I signed up for it place up in Oregon,
and I go onto one of Aubrey Marcus's events and
asked him about it, and he, you know, he had
his documentary and he gave me the place to sign up,
and I but my mistake I made is I signed
up like it was like in the end of June,
(08:03):
and I live in Utah. I'm like, why would I
go do this at the best time of the year
with the weather. I'm going to wait till January when
I want to get the hell out of Utah anyway,
where it's already dark for twenty hours a day here anyways.
And so I went to re sign up and it's
like a two year wait in the winter, and so
I have conveniently put it off, but it, you know, scary.
The thought of it was really scary. And so I'd
(08:25):
love to hear a little bit. I've never really talked
to anybody that's had this experience, especially twenty eight days.
That's insane, by the way. I'd love to hear kind
of what the experience was like. You know, you can
kind of preface a little bit of what's in the
book and get us excited for that. I'd love for
my listeners to learn from that.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Thank you man. It is it's a hard thing to describe. Jimmy.
I want you to imagine right now, after this call,
you go lock yourself in your bathroom and you don't
come out for two months and you can't see. Someone
takes care of your food. So that's that's like handled.
Your basic human needs are handled. But there's literally nothing
(09:05):
else to do but eat, sleep, and shit. That's it
and that doesn't take up a lot of time. So
the way I view it now, the first time, the
twenty eight days were like I'll describe it as like
a month long car accident because I was still fresh
of the trauma of the divorce, fresh in the trauma
of the miscarriage, fresh in the trauma of leaving the business,
(09:28):
fresh into sobriety. So like all of this shit was
coming up, like from my past, from my family of origin,
from my childhood. Anything you think you've buried, brother, it's
still in there. And when you got nothing to do, like,
I can't describe the the violence of monotony. It never
(09:54):
gets any less dark or any more dark. It's the same.
There's twenty four hours in a day, no matter what,
doesn't matter if it's day one or day forty nine.
There's nothing to fucking do. So what does your psyche do?
My psyche is like, sweet, let me crack my neck
and bring up some hard shit for this dude depth
to sit with, and it would be all of the
(10:16):
stuff I didn't want to think about, how I had
fucked up my marriage, how many times I'd lied to
my ex wife, what it must have been like for
her to come home and find me drunken high on
the couch as a health practitioner, right, even this last
one where I wasn't coming out of this situation, it
was more of who do I want to be in
(10:37):
the next twenty years of my life. I'm about to
turn fifty. That's a big question if you actually sit
with it, if you get quiet enough to take your
phone off, no music, nothing to see, no distractions, The
body's taken care of. Man, we get access to a
depth that we simply cannot get access to with our
(10:58):
eyes open. No one's going to get to. Like, oh,
I meditate three times a week for twenty minutes. That's beautiful.
I was meditating four to five hours a day. Think
about all the shit that's in you, that's you may
have dealt with, you may not have dealt with, or
you think you've dealt with. Like I checked that. I
checked that box, and it's like, well, have we let's
(11:21):
let's sit with it for five fucking straight days with
no break, same conversation going through your head, same video,
same memory, same stuff. Right, So this the book, the
book isn't just like it would be boring as shit
if I was like hey, and then on day three
I sat there, you know, and then on day four
(11:42):
is still sitting there. Man, this is we're flying. But
all of these things had come up, and that year
I was on going into the dark, I volunteered in hospice,
so I sat with people who are dying. Right, I've
relived with some of my own, Like shit, I've had
some addictive property here and some challenges. Let me oh,
I'm gonna have to relive all of that. So it's
(12:04):
a real Have you ever done plant medicine? Yes, it's
like that, but for a month.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
I've heard it drops DMT when you sit in darkness
long enough. Is that accurate? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
I had some hallucinations in the twenty eight day one.
It did not in this last round. But I'll tell you, man,
I'd been told like day eleven, it's coming day eleven,
So like every day it was like four days till
day eleven, and then day eleven was like, where's the movie,
Where's Endless Summer or some you know, acid trip? Nothing,
But then when it did come, it was stuff I
(12:36):
didn't want to see. And that's tough because there's no break,
Like right now, if we get in an argument and
we end this podcast, really, you can go get on Instagram,
you can talk to your partner if you have one,
you can play with your kids if you album. You
can go walk in a park to calm yourself down. Now,
if you get in an argument with someone in a
pitch black room and there's nothing to do and it's
(12:59):
eighteen hours to you get fed again, when that's the
next brit logical break and you've already pissed twice and
you're not sleepy, you're gonna sit with everything that came up. Man,
And and now why do I why do why do
men do this? And why do men need to do this?
Because we're so easily distracted and the world calls on
(13:21):
us to be distracted. Right we're the doing species. Women
are often more of the being species. So even if
we do have space and I have no shade on this,
we fill it with stuff. We go to the gym,
we have fantasy football, we watch TV, we play video games,
like we fill our time, we do stuff, But then
(13:41):
how much time do we give to introspection, to these
big questions, to contemplation, which I think used to be
a lot of the way of men. We'd sit around
and think about.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Shit and even fishing or right.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Hunting or yeah, yeah, we sit in the woods. That's right.
We know now like guys can't take a shit without
looking at their phone. Yeah, so yeah, it's it's a ride,
you know. It's interesting. Jimmy this last round, when I
came out, the woman who guided me, she guided me
both times ten years apart, said do you realize this
(14:15):
is ninety five percent men who do this? It's like,
no kidding, She's like, yeah, Well, the darkness is the
divine feminine, and Yin and Yong theory and Chinese medicine
are like black is feminine, So you're in the womb
of the feminine for how long too? There If you
want to get esoteric, like get your chills in my arm,
(14:36):
there's that too. So for a lot of us, just
sitting still is in power is impactful. So I'd say
for the four day man, if you sign back up,
go longer because here's what happens. You'll sleep for the
first two days.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
That sounds nice.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Actually, you know, are you a parent?
Speaker 1 (14:56):
No?
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Not okay, you know any parents I've had been like bro, yes, yeah, the.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Dark Mistry trade again. He's like, did you go last weekend?
Speaker 2 (15:10):
You just come out all happy and refreshed.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
That's funny. Well, it's one of those things, you know,
I try to get to three or four different masterminds
or advents a heere. I host about a dozen myself,
and so it's you know, I just doing the one
last weekend. I did one three weekends ago. You know,
it's and so for me, it's balancing. I always want
to be a student. I want to be learning more.
Like some people might hear you and be like, well,
(15:34):
if it was so impactful the first time, why'd you
have to go back? And I get it, like you're
always You're the kind of person that sounds like it's
just always going to be pushing yourself, always going to
want to get to another level. And also it's not
like once you learn something, you you know you can't
gain more insight from doing similar things. And you know,
it's funny because I had a mentor about two and
(15:54):
a half years ago, and he said to me, he said,
Jimmy said, we find God in silence, solitude, and and
you know it's we don't give ourselves enough space in
this and so what I've really worked hard to do
is find that in my life. And I live about
ten minutes from the mountains, thankfully, and so I can
get into the mountains in about, you know, fifteen minutes
and just go sit on a log, don't bring your phone.
(16:15):
In just an hour a week alone is you know,
can really help you get some clarity on things that
are happening. And we just don't do that. Like you said,
this world is designed. Every single thing around us is
trying to steal our attention. It's an every game. It's
that's the number one you know. Yeah, currency currently is
(16:35):
just trying to get people's attention. And so the more
that we give that up to things that don't deserve it,
the more we're doing it at our own despise.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
It's crazy, man, Imagine coming out of seven weeks, I
sat in an airport and was like, this place is
insane and everybody in here is insane. And then I
went into Whole Foods when I came back to Colorado
and was like, holy shit, this place is fuck and bonkers.
What are we doing?
Speaker 1 (17:03):
In your defense, I've gone to Whole Foods just on
a Saturday. I thought these people is pretty weird.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
But and I'm in Boulder, Colorado, which is not a
war zone. You know, this is like hippieville. Yes, our
society is designed. You've you nailed it. And I think, men,
it's easiest to grab our attention because we're so visual,
we're so easily stimulated.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Well, it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
You know.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
I got a couple of my closest buddies and one
he has three kids now and he's deep in his
family and his business. He's growing. He's an entrepreneur. Another
one that runs a multi billion or sorry, multimillion dollar company.
And another guy that you know, the kind of guy
that had to move to Puerto Rico for taxes. He's
just busy. They're doing life. And he sent me a
text last week he said, hey, man, I don't think
we're doing fantasy football this year. And we have this
(17:50):
league that and for me, it's just like we've always
loved it because it's connecting and it's all those things
and I sat there when I got the text, and
I was like, you know what that feels, right, I'm
good with that. It's like I used to think that
my fall evolved around watching football, and you look back,
you know, do I really care who won the Georgia
LSU game? Do I really care who won the game
(18:12):
of my team? You don't. And we'll spend so much
time of our lives just distracting ourselves or trying to,
you know, somehow justify that we're not wasting that time.
So we really put our full heart and effort into
this thing that really doesn't matter at all. And I
think getting older it gives you more hindsight. You like,
(18:33):
start looking at you know, these things I thought were
so important ten fifteen years ago, and you look at
it now and you just laugh. You're like, it never mattered.
Sure as hell felt like it really mattered back then.
You coach so many men now, and it's something that
and I have in common. What is making it? I
know one of the things you said your goal is
to end the suffering and men. So I'd like to
(18:54):
dive into that a little bit. What is causing suffering
and men?
Speaker 2 (18:57):
In today's world, they're disconnected from themselves. Number one, Then
they're disconnected from something bigger. And I don't care if
you call that God. I don't care if you call
that nature. I don't care if you call that the
soul of the world. I don't care what you call it.
But you go sit in the woods for an hour
outside of Utah or outside of your town, you are
(19:17):
connecting to something bigger than you. You are also connecting
to yourself. You said it. In an hour, you may
get insight even if you get no epiphany moment. You've
just spent time with yourself. Most guys can't handle being
in their bodies for more than ninety seconds. They simply can't.
(19:41):
And I'm not shitting on men. I was that way
in my marriage. I was that way ten years ago.
I couldn't sit still. It was either caffeine, weed, alcohol,
something like don't let me drop below my collarbone into
my body. So I'd say, first and foremost, we don't
know who the fuck we are, because if we did,
(20:02):
a lot of the external things that we've oriented ourselves
around and our life around would probably change. And that's
a real ill hard proposition. If it cost you four
years of grad school, to get the law degree, and
Dad thinks you're the best lawyer in the world, and
he always wanted you to be a lawyer. But if
you drop down into your heart and you're like, man,
(20:23):
I just want to play the guitar and go surfing
Costa Rica. Now I feel that for he feels that,
for a fraction of a second, has to pop back
up into his head, look at Instagram, look at something,
and blah blah blah blah blah. So there's a deep
lack of authentic intentionality. And I'm using I know these
things like coaching words or et cetera, but really it
(20:45):
comes down to, guys, are you living the life you
want to live? Now, Jimmy, we have to deconstruct some
of the things, right, Like I grew up on the
East Coast. You had to go to college. If you
didn't go to college, you were a failure. I remember
my my mom sitting me down on the bed as
like a seven year old and being like, if you
don't get a master's degree, you'll amount to nothing in
this world. Now, I had to deconstruct that after getting
(21:09):
a master's degree and be like, wait a minute, I
thought this was the road to happiness. It wasn't so really.
Men are suffering for a number of reasons, but I
can frame it all around relationship. They don't have a
relationship to themselves. They don't have a relationship to something bigger.
If they're in an actual relationship, be that romantic or other,
(21:30):
probably romantic. They don't know how to be relational. How
do we stay connected? My mentor calls it being in
contact Dewey Freeman connect. Can you feel your partner? Can
they feel you? Are you guys in the same relationship?
Great question. I've worked with a lot of couples, brother,
and at the end of an hour, I'm like, you
(21:51):
guys are dating or you're married, but you're in way
separate relationships. Is this guy living the life he wants
to live?
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Go ahead, a couple of the things that you help
coachman on to get more connected to self and then
get more on the same page in their relationship.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
To get connected to stuff, you got to remove the
things that are taking you away from self. And guys
get pissed at me. Man, I'm like, you want to
work with me, You're not drinking anymore. Just go ninety days.
If you can't go ninety days. First of all, there's
some questions.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Yeah, you got every year, actually seventy five days where
I don't drink at all, because if I can't do that,
I got a problem.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Right, It's a big thing. And I'm not trying to
get guys sober. I'm just trying to say, here are
the facts. These are the things that take you out
of your body, away from your own thoughts. Social media, weed,
video games, porn, alcohol. Trust me, you go four days
about any of those, you will radically change your life
as a man because you'll go, holy shit. I kind
(22:50):
of have a feel for who I am again. Right,
this is a set of questions I ask men. That
is both to answer to both of your questions. What
do you need in your life specifically as a man
to thrive? I need jiu jitsu. That's a weird thing
to need. If I don't have jiu jitsu, do I die? No?
(23:13):
I don't die. But do I am I less than
who I could be? Am I less happy? Do I
not sleep as well? Do I start thinking about choking
people and Trader Joe's I do?
Speaker 1 (23:23):
So?
Speaker 2 (23:23):
I need jiu jitsu. I need to surf again. Am
I gonna die? If I don't surf, no, but I
know if I'm doing jiu jitsu, if I'm surfing, if
I'm writing, if I'm engaging in kinky sex every once
in a while, these are that's kind of like my
user manual. So I know that. Now I'm forty nine
years old, I know if I'm like, well, what's going on?
Why aren't I sleeping? Why am I feeling a little
(23:43):
bit squirrelly. I need to get on the mat. I
need to go back to the ocean. You need to
plan a surf trip. I need to start write. Oh,
I've been writing sales copy and not anything from my heart.
I need to write. I need to tie somebody up now.
When I get in relationship, as opposed to just being
like I don't know why I'm all fucking squirrely and
all over the place with you, I can say, hey,
(24:04):
here's my user manual. Does this work for you? Are
you okay being with the guy who needs jiu jitsu,
who needs the ocean, who needs to tie you up
every once in a while, who needs to write for
an hour every day. If you're not, I'm not the
right person for you. If I am and you catch
me getting squirrelly. You may go, hey, guess what, I
(24:25):
can feel something's off with you. When was the last
time you got on the mat? Or hey, I noticed
that you've been working so much for the last month,
you haven't been training. You should probably go get on
the get in the gym. So most guys, though, when
I asked that question, Jimmy, you know, I get the
like puppy dog head turn, like what do I need
as a man? I've been told being a man is shameful,
(24:48):
it's weak, it's this, it's real men eat bake and
real men love Jesus, Real men do such and such.
Not talking about real Throw that word right out the window.
What do you need as a man to be successful
and thrive in this world? That takes some introspection.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
But I'll also tell you a lot of people, you know,
they don't They don't have any idea what the answer
to these questions would be right. And it's one of
the things when you do go sit in silence, or
you go do this, have some of these questions top
of your mind and kind of think about them for
a second. Wait, what what do I truly enjoy? When
am I happiest? Where am I settling. What do I
do that I don't want to? You know, what emotion
(25:27):
am I trying to experience when I do this or that?
Or what am I trying?
Speaker 2 (25:30):
That's a great question.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
What am I trying to block? What what emotion am
I not wanting to have come through? Or you know
where am I still not loving myself or judging myself
and really just being able to pull back a little
bit in doing it with just intentionality.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
But you use the word intentionality, man, that's that's that
these questions aren't answered like between scrolls on social media. Yeah,
not answered sitting on the toilet in ten minutes, like
go take a walk in the woods, go spend three
days in a cabin like our I think our fathers
and grandfathers and like the writers of old they used
(26:06):
to go disappear for like six weeks. And I get
that there's probably a father listening to this, Like, great
bront you don't have kids. That's why you can say this. Well,
if you got an hour in the morning, or you
got an hour unless those kids go to bed at midnight,
you may have an hour. And if you're in a
relationship and you said to your partner, I guarantee you
if you said, hon, I'm going to go spend an
(26:27):
hour with a journal and a deep question. I don't
think a lot of women are gonna get upset, yeah,
or men. I don't care how you roll. Any partner's
gonna be like, Wow, you're gonna go know yourself a
little bit better, beautiful, bring me something back from that.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Yeah. I just this last week, I was I'm obsessed
right now with cabins in the woods and getting out
there more. And I found time Share. I was a
realtor in my previous career, and so I have access
to the MLS still, and I saw this cabin share
and you get it for about five or six times
a year if you go three days at a time, Yeah,
(27:00):
two hours for my house. It's perfect. It's something you
went iss which were my favorite mountains for eight thousand
dollars and normally was twenty three thousand. The guy who's
just fired or something hasn't used it in two years.
And so I bought it, and I'm like, this is
going to force me to have five or six times
a year that for three days I'm going to go
to this cabin buy myself in the woods and find
that time to just disconnect it. I'm so happy about it.
(27:21):
It was like, you know, is the perfect thing that
I've been looking for. I don't have to worry about
a cabin to have all the time. I literally stole
this thing, basically, and so I'm super pumped about It's
exactly what you're saying, is like, get away to a
cabin for two or three days. And I did two
years ago. I went to a cab. I left my
phone at my house, which might have been a little
scary for some people, but it went, you know, about
(27:43):
an hour away, and I just sat there for two
days and just by myself and just let's come through.
And I journaled more. I'd read more than I'd read
in months, you know. And so I.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Think, especially for guys over thirty five, it's easy for
us because we used to this. I spent the nineties
without a cell phone, right. It's spent a lot of
time fishing, a lot of time sitting on back porches,
staring off into the woods.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
And believe it or not, it was better than that.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
It was there so many things were better than you know,
when you like, I think beak as a society in
nineteen ninety nine is the year I always say, maybe
the last year I didn't have a cell phone.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
It's so true and you and I think even for
younger guys, you'll have twenty four hours of squirreliness, but
then your system will literally drop you back in. I
told you. During that year, I did a month long
survival program in Utah, you know, Boulder, Utah, Boulder out
the Survivor School.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Yeah, and they're very almost signed up multiple times.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
For that, so good. The very first night it was
a month long course, they take us out into the
wilderness and go, hey, guys, we're going to leave you
here for two hours. All we want you to do
is stare up at the sky and think about this.
We're not teaching you anything. We're reintroducing you into your
natural habitat. You've been here for thousands and thousands of years,
(29:05):
this little, tiny, tiny blip of society. And then it's say,
in the last twenty years, which is like a microsecond
in the human evolution timeline, since nineteen ninety nine till now,
things have just gotten crazy in the last three years,
since since twenty nineteen, I mean pre pandemic, things were
much different. Than they are now your biology will remember
(29:27):
phelt was and that's when you actually get to again
you want a deep answer, you got to let that depth.
Doesn't give a shit how busy you are. It's gonna
go cool. I'll just go sit in the corner and wait.
And if you want me to wait fifteen twenty years,
I will well.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
And that's the truth of the matter is is our
body is the more you study all this, your body's
just hanging on to stuff and you don't even know
it's there. It's like just hanging out. And at any
point that's why I love breath work. About every two
out of three times I do it, nothing happens. But
that third time it'll pop out that thing that I
(30:04):
never knew was there haunting me for the last ten years,
you know.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Right, and it slaps you in the face and you go,
I can't believe I couldn't feel that, see that, know that,
and it was right there, just sitting in the corner.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Yeah. I want to cover something you talk a little
bit in one of your books today I rise. You
talk about getting over breakup and divorce, and I think
this is an important topic. I really want to dive
into this sure. I don't know if the best way
to do it's bald points or rapid questions or whatever.
But like for guys that are in this position, I
think it's one of the hardest places to be in life.
You feel like everything's crumbling, nothing matters, you can't even
(30:37):
function sometimes when you're in that place. If you've truly,
you know, been in love with this person, you're losing.
And so I'd love to hear what you learned in
what you teach in that book.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
First of all, it just sucks, and it's universal, like
there is no pain like heartbreak, and divorce is such
a brutal experience, and I think it often gets downplayed
for men. They're like, hey man, you just got to
start fucking someone else. You just got to get over this,
like go to the gym. And so first, let's acknowledge
(31:11):
that this is a major, major life change. I started
seeing a Youngian analyst, Jimmy, when I was getting divorced,
and I was like, hey, man, is this a big deal,
because this has really effing me up, And he goes,
I have guys coming in here twenty five years after
the divorce that it's still messing with them. So just recognize.
Gentlemen listening to this, I want to say a couple things.
(31:35):
It is an initiation and that's a big word. And
an initiation means one, you are severed from the reality
that you knew. Number two, your identity is often completely
decimated or completely changed. And number three, you know intuitively
you can never go back to the reality that you
had before. Now, everything that I just described is also
(31:58):
how we would categorize trauma like legit trauma. The difference
is if you can have people around you to hold
you during this experience or if you can hold yourself,
you will change through the experience. That's why you're going
through it. So I don't want to downplay the pain.
What I want to tell men is the pain has
(32:19):
a purpose. You will not be the same and good.
So here's what you do. You get real and honest, right.
I called the guy Jimmy was like, I think I'm
gonna quit drinking and he's like, cool, tell me about it.
And I was like, God, you know, I'm not an
alcoholic blah blah blah, but I used to smoke a
lot of dope. And at the end of the call,
(32:40):
he's like, you know what, people who who smoke enough
dope or it doesn't affect them, their wife doesn't leave them.
And I was like, ah, shit, thanks for calling me
out on that. So I quit smoking dope, quit drinking right.
I looked at the places in my own life that
I said, even if she never comes back, I want
to use this pain as fuel to change those things.
(33:04):
And if I can look at pain as fuel, holy shit,
I just got given a double dose of fuel. So
I can lie on my back miserable, hating myself, depressed,
which some days just go for it, let it happen.
Or I can say, you know what, I'm gonna change
my life, parts of my life, and I'm gonna use
this suckery. I'm gonna I'm down here on rock bottom, beautiful.
(33:28):
That's when you get to the base levels. You're in
the foundation. Now you're doing deep work down there, and
do that. Figure out the shit you want to change
about your life. Now. The last point this is a biggie,
get a life, and I'm not saying that to be
harsh to you. Guys. Go experience life. Recognize that the
(33:50):
world is a big place, and there's a lot of opportunities,
and there's incredible things happening every single day, and yes,
you're gonna have to drag yourself to some of them
because your heart is broken and you feel nauseous, and
you feel like everything would just be so much better
if she came back, or she called you, or she
apologed or whatever it is, and your mind is racing.
(34:13):
You gotta build yourself a new life. You got to
try stuff you'd never tried before. Take a cooking class,
get in the best shape of your life, learn a
new language, change your business, go to a workshop, join
a mastermind, get around guys too. This is a biggie.
I got around guys who'd been divorced and they're like,
(34:34):
guess what, it sucks. It's like, oh, thank god, thank
you for being honest. And there's another side to this. Now.
You don't get to the other side until you acknowledge
that it sucks. If you're one of those guys, that's
just like, I'll just drink through this, I'll just fuck
through this. I'll just get high through this. And six
if you're one of the six week dudes that my
(34:55):
divorce attorney was talking about, you'll most likely be right
back here in two years. Yeah, so use it. Gentlemen
like one. My heart aches for you man in that
book Jimmy, I tell guys, this was I wrote it
ten years ago, so I didn't know shit from shit
about marketing or whatever. But I put my email address
in it and I was like, hey, email me ten
(35:18):
things that are amazing about you. I know today's the
worst day of your life, but guess what, there's still
some cool shit about you. And ten years later, I
still get these emails and they just make me cry
because guys will be like, you know what, I'm a
good cook. I play a really good Stairway to Heaven
on the guitar, like I'm a good father, I was
(35:39):
a kind man, I'm a kind man. And I'm like, see,
there's still so much to you other than the fact
that this person is no longer in your life. I
wish I could like shake men by the shoulders because
eight out of ten male suicides come from divorce or
a breakup. That's a big number. And go, brothers, there's
another side to this, trust me. But you have to
(36:02):
be willing to go through hell. You have to. You
don't have to go through hell alone, though, and you
get to learn all along the way. It took me
out to I'll be honest with you, man, it took
me about six seven years before I was like, I'm
so grateful that woman left me right kicking and screaming
(36:22):
for the first three years, how could you do this?
How could you do this? And now I look at
my life and like, holy shit, my life is crazy amazing.
It is the life I wanted when I was married.
And do you know how many guys I've worked with
over the past decade who now have the life they
actually wanted in their hearts and their souls and their guts,
(36:45):
but they didn't have in their marriage, and they too fought,
kicked and screamed like how do I get her back?
How do I get her back? How do I get
her back? I just want her back? And now they're like,
I wouldn't take her back, and if she came with
a million dollars.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
An interesting thing happens when you do work on yourself.
You're going to realize that that version of you that
loved that person, that it was needed for that time,
but you no longer even would be connected if you tried,
and so you're able to move on because you realize
that that person is you're just not even the same
humans that once were together. And it's very freeing to
(37:20):
be able to kind of have that recognition.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Yeah, I would tell guy like, please, guys like, don't
go down the woman hating red pill.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
That's the worst thing you can do is start the
personal accountability has to be at the forefront of everything.
It's interesting. We I just got back this weekend. I
had a retreat on a houseboat in a lake pow
Utah and Arizona, and one of the guys, you know,
he's deciding if he's going to stay in his marriage.
And he's all he did is told us all the
things that he didn't like about his marriage. And I
(37:51):
just said, hey, all right, what are three things that
you're doing in the marriage to cause the problems? And
he named two and then he started skirting around all stuff.
I said, hold on, hold on, I haven't even heard
a third thing from you yet. And he was having
a hard time coming up with his own fault in this,
and I mean everyone else sitting there and we could
totally see it. We're like, I could come up with ten.
(38:11):
But you know, it was really beautiful to like watch
him into his credit. I talked to him later that night.
He said, I'm putting a lot of thought into this, man,
I really want to see I think I've missed my
own culpability in this. It's because that's the first way
to overcome anything, is to realize that you're If you're
the problem, then you can be the solution. If it's
out of your hands. It's pretty hopeless situation. And so
(38:34):
that personal responsibility, I agree. And blaming women or thinking
that they're the problem, I mean it is you that
you have to be smart enough to know that you
are the problem. Even if that particular woman caused your
problems and her problems to become a giant problem, it's
still you that has the problem in that sense, because
either the problem was you chose the wrong person, or
(38:54):
the problem is you weren't showing up the way that
you needed to in that relationship to make it work. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Some of the best piece of advice I got was
from a guy named Tom Elsener who was a therapist,
who said, you're one hundred percent responsible for your fifty
percent of the relationship period. I don't want to hear
about what she did. I want to know you, what
did you do? And you're not one hundred percent responsible
for the demise of the relationship, even if she's telling
you it's all your fault and you did this one
(39:22):
hundred percent responsible for your fifty percent. And I remember
him telling me, like, give me this top seven things
she said of the reasons she left that were about you,
and then pick three of them and go to talent,
go to war with them. Right, you're not present cool,
Go get and present you were. You weren't sober cool,
Go get sober you were angry, Go to angry to
(39:45):
deal with that, because guess what the next woman you're with,
who you invest your time, your money, your energy, your
life for us with that, Shit's not going to change
unless you change it.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
And on thousand percent, dude, I'm excited to read this
new book. I'm going to read it and then decide up,
I'm going to go do the forty or the twenty
day or whatever I do myself. Where do we pick
up the new book Twenty Days in Darkness? Also, you
have another book called Man on Civilized I didn't get
to but just do an amazing work. Man. I want
people to experience these books and to be able to
learn more for themselves. So where do we send them?
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Head to men on Civilized dot Com forward slash twenty
eight days and you can get the book. You can
get a pdf. You can see the video of the
room I was in ten years ago. I do have
a video of the room I was in three weeks ago,
but I'm not putting that out just yet. So a
man Oncivilized dot Com forward slash twenty eight days.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
Well thanks brother man.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
I keep doing great work and we'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Thanks man, thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
Thank you again for listening to the Jimmy Rex Show.
And if you liked what you heard, please like and subscribe.
It really helps me to get better guests, to be
able to get the type of people on this podcast.
It's going to make it the most interesting. Also, wanted
to everybody about my podcast studio, The Rookery Studios, now
available in Salt Lake City and or in Talk. If
(41:01):
you live in Utah and want to produce your own podcast,
we take all of the guests, work out of it
for you and make it so simple. All you do
is you come in, you sit down, you talk, and leave.
We record it, edit it, even post it for you.
If interested in doing your own podcast, Visit our Instagram
and send us a DM Rookery Studios, or go to
our website, therookri Studios dot com
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