Dwight “Doc” Gooden sits down with Jimmy to open up about life on and off the mound—rising from teenage phenom to Cy Young & Triple Crown winner, the wild ride of the ’86 Mets, and the redemption arc that followed years of addiction. Doc shares why missing the 1986 World Series parade became a turning point, how therapy (starting in 2019) helped him finally forgive himself, and the daily practices that keep him sober today.
They trade stories from the Yankees–Red Sox 2004 ALCS, debate Gary Sheffield’s Hall of Fame case, and compare Doc’s instant impact to today’s fireballers like Paul Skenes. Doc relives his 1996 Yankees no-hitter—pitched the day before his father’s surgery—and reflects on loyalty to both Mets and Yankees, his love for speaking to young people, and being present for his kids and grandkids. If you love baseball, resilience, and real talk about growth, this one’s special.
00:00 Introduction
02:00 Yankees–Red Sox memories & Gary Sheffield’s legacy
06:00 The ’86 Mets and life in the spotlight
10:30 Addiction, missing the parade, and hitting rock bottom
16:00 Choosing sobriety and healing through therapy
25:00 The rise: Rookie years, Cy Young, and peak dominance
27:00 Throwing a no-hitter for his dad in 1996
33:00 Life after baseball & lessons in redemption
38:00 Outro
They trade stories from the Yankees–Red Sox 2004 ALCS, debate Gary Sheffield’s Hall of Fame case, and compare Doc’s instant impact to today’s fireballers like Paul Skenes. Doc relives his 1996 Yankees no-hitter—pitched the day before his father’s surgery—and reflects on loyalty to both Mets and Yankees, his love for speaking to young people, and being present for his kids and grandkids. If you love baseball, resilience, and real talk about growth, this one’s special.
00:00 Introduction
02:00 Yankees–Red Sox memories & Gary Sheffield’s legacy
06:00 The ’86 Mets and life in the spotlight
10:30 Addiction, missing the parade, and hitting rock bottom
16:00 Choosing sobriety and healing through therapy
25:00 The rise: Rookie years, Cy Young, and peak dominance
27:00 Throwing a no-hitter for his dad in 1996
33:00 Life after baseball & lessons in redemption
38:00 Outro
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Jimmy Rex Show.
And this is one of my favorite podcasts I've ever
had the opportunity to do. This was with mister Dwight
Doc Gooden, and for you baseball fans, obviously, that's a treat.
Dwight Gooden is a two times World Series champion with
the nineteen eighty six Mets and then the.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Two thousand Yankees.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
He also won the nl Cy Young and won the
Triple Crown that same year. Few people in the history
of baseball have burst onto the scenes like Doc Goodin.
And the reason why this episode was so special is
because there was a time there in his career and
couldn't really get it all together with drugs and alcohol
and some other things that were happening. And to be
(00:38):
able to sit down and hear where he's at now.
He's been sober for six years now and he talks
about his journey. He talked about how he got therapy
and how he kind of overcame his demons, and it
was so beautiful. I just as I'm sitting across from
this guy, and I always not disliked him as a player,
but he was always on teams that like I didn't
want to win. I guess you could say the Mets
and the Yankees. And so it's funny because I never
(00:59):
really cheered from as a player. But I'm sitting across
doing this interview, in my heart just like went out.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
To this guy.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
I just wanted to give him a hug and felt
so much love and empathy for this man. And it
was just a really special interview. I know you're going
to enjoy it. Some one of my favorite reviews I've
ever done with a legend, a guy that I grew
up watching and collecting his baseball card, and just a
pleasure to be able to have this podcast with mister
Dwight Good. Today's podcast is brought to you by Bucked
Up Supplements. You guys, you know, doing these athlete podcasts
(01:27):
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(01:47):
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Speaker 3 (02:02):
Doc.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Great to be here with you. Yeah, thanks for having me, buddy. Yeah. Thanks. Well,
we met briefly once several years. You wouldn't remember it.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
It was the It was Yankees Red Sox game seven,
when they came back from down three h four. You
were there, and I just came up and said hi
real quick, and that was it. But that was that
was kind of a crazy game. Oh man, it was tough.
So I'll work with the Yanks.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
At the time, I was up on the George Sunburn
and I had to watch every game with him.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Oh wow, Oh my gosh. How was he reacted during
that series?
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Oh my god. I took the beating. I mean, I'm
not even playing. I got nothing to do with the game.
Another picture coding thing. But I was a beating boy.
But Joyce was great, man. But that was tough to watch. Yeah, aftly,
but you knew once he got to game seven it
wasn't gonna be good.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Yeah, kind of.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
It was such an interesting game. I remember I was
watching Game six at my house, you know, the bloody
sock and everything, and I jumped on the internet. I
started messing around. I'm like, how much would tickets be
to that game? And I ended up finding a pretty
good deal. So I was from Utah and so I
flew out the first thing in the morning, my buddy
there and we went to Game seven and it was
just such an iconic moment.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
But you kind of knew the Red.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Sox were gonna you complete it, yes, And I felt
bad because Gary Sheffield, my nephew. That was his first
year with the Yankees, and you up to three games
to none, and you figured it, this is over. But
when stuff started happening. As a former player, you just
know the momentum changes. In game seven, we had no shot.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, no shot. But I remember early on they threw
a guy out at home.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
It was one of that I've never felt this in
a stadium before they threw out I think throughout, like
Manny Ramirez at home or something on a close play
and the stadium was going crazy, right, and then the
next pitch, I think Johnny Damon hit like a three
run homer and it was just you complete fifty five
thousand people from screaming to dead.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Side that it took him out of the game.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, well such a fun, such fun serious you know.
Speaking of Gary Sheffeld, I feel like he is one
of the most underrated power hitters of all time. He
was so as an opposing fan, you were so afraid
of Gary Sheffield when he came up to back.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Definitely, he's the only guy I think to have one
hundred RBIs with five different teams.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Wow, this guy, he definitely belongs in the whole of fame.
I agree.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
I mean he got caught in there the gospel. What
they'll send a bout some free stuff or whatever, but
he's a guy in the not just to be biased anything.
I grew up in the same house with this guys
sometimes share the same bed, and I would go to
my grapes and I know for a fight. I mean
I went with him every day, but I go to
my grape saying, I know for a fight. He didn't
take starb Roys, It's no way possible. I mean, this
guy was a natural hitter, loved the game since he
(04:21):
was ten years old, being outside playing with older guys.
All he knew and dreamed of his baseball and it's
hard to see that he's rumat to this when it's
guys that are in the Hall of Fame that we
knew that took start roys.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, it's interesting who they led. They like Dave Artis
and some of these other guys.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
It's like, hey, wait a second, why do we pick
and choose Jeff Bagwell, you know, it's like, why do
we choose which guys we get to let in?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Which guys?
Speaker 3 (04:41):
I think sometimes and it's not going to media anything
like that, but some of them they.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Take it personal. Like if Gary was one of those
guys where he spoke.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
His mind and if you don't like you, he's gonna
say why and say different things, and I think it
worked against him, which is not fair because numbers are numbers.
You gotta be able to separate the two. But he's
getting ponished.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
For being honest and that's not right. Yeah, you know,
there's a p sure right now that reminds me of you.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
I was trying to tell my camera guy, just explaining
how good you were your first couple of years in
their league and how you exploded on the scene right
after I mean just a year after getting drafted and
everything else, and and Paul Skids, I think you are
the best, uh sample or the best comparison to kind
of his dominance right now is when you were in
the league the first couple years.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
That's something I got to show you too. Yeah, Paul
Skates is definitely he's fun to watch. And I was
thinking they asked me to say, how do you think
I do in New York? I mean that type of
stuff is Moum Presidents. I think it'll do great in
New York. Obviously, you know he's untouchable right now, right,
but he's fun to watch and coming to lead. Actually,
with all the hype a lot of times Pitcher coming in,
you have all the hype and the build up, like Stratsburgh.
(05:42):
You know certain guys. Strasburg a little up too, but
the injuries got him a little bit. Matt Harvey came
into the league little to a lot of these guys.
They come into league with all his hype and they
don't stay healthy or they don't leave to it, like
the Mets for a while back we had Paul Wilson.
These guys with winder guards then't live up to the hype.
But schemes is legit. He's a legit guy. They just
(06:02):
had a stat they see I pulled this over real
quick for you.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yeah, I was telling him.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
I was like, I don't think there's been a guy
that exploded on the scene like Skimes since you. I mean,
there's guys obviously, you know, they go through the process
and the minor leagues. But you were so young and
so raw coming in and had such a dominating performance
right out at the back.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Right that's that they just oh, ship, damn, okay, come on,
come on, come on. They just had to stat on
there right here.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
So Dwight Gooden had a one ninety one ear in
his first seventy two starts with twenty seven complete games
and thirteen shoutouts. Wow, you see it, because they said
they've never seen anyone like him. They said Dwight good
was Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's kind of funny,
Like I got his numbers are not quite as good
as yours.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
He's right there.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
It's crazy. Yeah, it's still good.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
They've been retired for twenty five years and these pictures
come up in the still compare them to you.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
I mean, it's pretty special.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
I like that.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Yeah, I mean, go back those days. Those Mets teams
were so crazy, you know that. One of my first
memories is the eighty six World Series. Bruce Hurst had
pitched it. I think, b why you were in Utah
or something my dad, So, my dad kind of knew
him a little bit, and so he was, you know,
he was a big Red Sox guy during the series.
I remember, you know, you guys go out there and
end up meeting them, and.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
That was a crazy series.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Man.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I remember.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Game six, obviously, right in our stadium, Shaye Stadium. They
got congratulations boss of Red Sox. I remember, I mean,
we're down two runs, two runs, two outs, is over,
and I remember the bat boy had to come in
the clubhouse to get Kevin Mitchell to pinch hit. Kevin
Mitchell has jersey off you from the phone. It was
late throws jerseys on go after get the pitch it.
(07:46):
I mean, it's crazy. We got the game seven. We
knew after what happened in Game six, there's no way
to coming back from you.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yeah, no, you don't come back from losing a game
like that.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
I tell you we got lost, not to cut you off,
but I say, what else was game six of the
playoffs against.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Yeah, that was kind of the crazier game, right. It
was at the fifteen inning game or whatever it was.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
That was our game set. We had to win that
game because if not, we had Scott the next night.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Then he'd been out hit about that and our hitters
he was someone to I hitter his head where.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
I mean, he's done more trying to catch him cheating
than trying to get a hit off of him. Now shot.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
So you go back to that team a little bit
because it's one of those iconic teams. There's books been
written about you guys. I mean, was it as crazy
as you hear the rumors? How nuts you guys were?
Probably crazier if possible. I mean, we have some crazy guys.
But that was that was the thing in the eighties.
I mean, like all the stuff on Wall Street, Sure,
what do you call it? The pop singers, everybody, That's
what everybody's doing. And unfortunately from a personal set, probably
(08:38):
got caught up in it. But at that time we
had a crazy bunch of guys. Man, but fun, I mean,
we would go but I'll use this for example, like
at Wrigley before they got the lights, right, we go
to Chicago, checking the hotel, go in the room, you
call your girlfriendly wives, and then the twenty five man roster,
at least twenty three of us meet by downstairs. All
but maybe Mookie Wilson and Gary Carter meet down said
(08:59):
we got the dinner. They would go out to the
clubs we went to at hours.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
We go to at that.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Hours, at hours, get back to the hotel on time,
with showered, get on the bus, go to the ballpark,
and the next day do it all over again.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Holy smoke, that's kind of team we had. That's insane.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
I mean, looking back on that, obviously, that is kind
of how the eighties kind of were.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
But what could have they?
Speaker 1 (09:18):
I mean, you know, obviously I kind of played it
part in the derail in your career a little bit
in Strawberry as well. You know, you two are two
of the most talented young players ever played the game.
In hindsight, do you wish that there would have been
more adults in the room to kind of help support
you guys in that time?
Speaker 3 (09:32):
I think, to be honest with you, most of my
problems happened in Tampa, not New York. When I would
go home, I had all this free time, I was
hanging around guys that I grew up with, I went
to school with. They're not doing anything, They're hanging on
the tree, drinking, smoking, doing drugs. I would go back
to those guys and hang around in the atmosphere. New
York was kind of like carry on part of it.
(09:53):
But all my problems really started in Tampa. I think
in New York the help was there, but me personal now,
I didn't think I had a problem, but my triver
can say I did a problem from the beginning and
then plus and not to justify anything, I was on
a pedestal, like seventeen years old. I'm taking care of
my entire family. So when I said, you know, I'm
(10:13):
not right something right, Oh, you're fine, Just have a drink,
You'll be fine. And I grew up in a household
where I had a lot of love, a lot of support.
But men don't cry, men don't hug, men don't talk
about problems. Pull your boots up, tighten up, get tough,
you know, and go. My dad was like that. I
knew my dad loved me, but he never told me
loved me because his dad probably never told him, and
so on and so on, that's just the way the generations.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
So even with me, I had.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
To break that cycle and get comfortable with telling my boys.
The girls I can say, I love you my boys.
I actually I had to have therapy feel comfortable telling
my boys I loved him and hugging my boys, not
the brothers they love hug, but a hug.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
I mean, now, it's just normal.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
But to get to that point and people might say, yeah,
but that's normally just go and hug them. But when
you grow up that way and it's installing, it's not
that easy. And I wish I could explain it, but
I can just the way it was at that time,
and I'm just sharing that so nobody else will have
to go through that because it's horrible. It's a horrible thing.
But just to break that cycle, you have to do it.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Good for you though, I mean, you know, I think
that's the part that people don't realize. And this is
why I think life is so complicated people from the
outside looking in.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
It could be like, oh, Dwight.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Gooden had everything, and you know he didn't take advantage
of it, or you know he threw it away or.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Whatever you might want to say.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
But then you kind of start to humanize you a
little bit, and it's like, hey, your experience was not
my experience, and doing the best you could with the
information you had at the time, and you just happen
to be a really talented young kid. I can't imagine
being in New York with that kind of fame, that
kind of influence that you were under. I don't see
how you could have got out of that without having
(11:44):
some major life problems.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
It was tough because and then my thing was having
an ego, having pride.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
I want people to know, even though they know they
see what you're.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Doing, you're missing events, you're missing different things, so something's
not right. But for you to accept that and say,
like you say, I'm on a billboard, I'm taking care
of my entire family. I'm pitching well, so it's like
I don't have the problem. I'm not homeless. But yeah,
you yeah, the problem is getting worse. It's going to
get worse. It has to get worse before it's better.
And you got a team, and I'm not blaming the team,
(12:17):
but I'm pitching well, so they're not.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
They don't do anything. Yeah you're fine, Yeah you find okay, good.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
You're good. So when we had to help was there.
I'm gonna say, no, I don't have a problem. No,
I'm fine. First thing you say, I'm fine, because that's
what that's why I was raised, That's what I was taught. Yeah, Nil,
it got serious. I started having bad problems. Like when
I missed that parade, it was like, the worst thing
can happen to me?
Speaker 2 (12:38):
He missed the World Series pread Yes, in eighty six.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
When I missed that parade, it was like the worst
thing that happened to me, but the best thing that
happened at the same time, if that makes sense, because
I went from when we clinched that night before the
best of my life for the athlete, an athlete.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Right, I'm calling my dad.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
We're sharing this moment because me and my dad at
one time we shared the same coat at you know,
winder coat sitting in front of the oven and for heat.
You know, I keep in the back room. You got rapped,
all this stuff run across you. That's where I grew up.
But it was normal. I didn't even better. I had
pee some love at the house to get to where
I'm at now, you know, making decent money. We win
the Road Series I should be the greatest day of
our life. I called my dad, I called my mom,
(13:18):
were sharing that moment with crying. I hanged that phone
up and I called a drug dealer wrapter that to
get drugs. My thing was to get drugs and meet
the team at the club and then the next day
as a parade. I'm in the project. So I'm telling
you the God in the truth, I'm in these projects
meeting their drug dealer, start doing drugs, never make it
out of there that night. You want the World series night,
(13:38):
we want the Road series and the thing that sold
me up first. I'm watching them. I'll say I'll leave
her in an hour, and I say, okay, well it's late,
maybe thirty more minutes. Now, the sun's coming up. I
can't imagine what I'm looking like now. The parise's on
TV and I'm still in this drug house with people
I don't even know. I'm watching them parade on TV.
And that was ale. They helped me get help, but
(13:59):
at the same time, it kept me sick for a
long time because it's hard for me to forgive myself.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
But to be honest.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
When I got this real deep in twenty nineteen with
the therapy that I needed. I wouldn't forgive myself because
I was using that as a reservation and to keep going.
Bke out and I had a therapist that break them
down to me and tell me. It just hit me
with that, and man, it was like a big brick
hit me because I had to really look at it
and say, you're right. So in twenty nineteen, you were
able to find a therapist. Yeah, unfortunately, yeah, because what
(14:27):
happened on my fast forward just a little bit. So
in twenty nineteen, I got two d UI's in one week.
I mean, that's hard to do in one week, right,
And then Joe said, look, I'm gonna give you thirty
days in jail or I'm gonna let you make the decision.
I'm going to give you sixty days in treatment. I
said I don't want either. He said, well you go
and get one. You got no choice, right, I said,
(14:49):
I think I need a deeper help. He said, what
help do you want? He said, you didn't been to
seven rehabs, you know, been in prison. When are you
gonna get honest with yourself? I said, I'm in a
space now, Well I want to take this mass off,
meaning I'm tired of pretending to be somebody I'm not.
I'm trying to living up to some bad spectations. So
let me go to a mental institution for a year.
(15:10):
He said, really, I said, yes. He said, but I
don't think it's crazy. You know what you're doing, so
I'm not crazy, I said. But it was times where
I would literally be crying going to get drugs. I'll
be crying going to a liquor store, so you knew
it was going to be that much worse, but you
couldn't stop your stop. I would be crying going to
get the drugs, and then I get the drugs, and
then when I first do it, I feel better. It
releases everything. But then when I start so up, then
(15:32):
the guilt, shame and embarrassment, well look at the mirror
comes back. So I self medicating again and there's a cycle.
Then I'm driving around for three days, not sleeping, driving around,
and I remember the cops stopped me and they said, well,
we didn't.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Know it was you.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
I said, no, no, thank you, you're doing your job.
You probably saved my life and others, So thank you,
and steal those same cops with friends today that stopped
me in twenty eighteen, we'll go to games together. Because
that changed my whole life, and by the grace of God,
I've been good since and been able to share my
message because of going to get mental help. I went
to High Focus in New Jersey for a year. But
I have to accept that because when I first got there,
(16:08):
I mean, you see these people.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Man, it's sad, and you're like, oh, no, I don't
blow here.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
But then my therapist told me he goes you see
your trite record, Yeah, exactly where you belong.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
And I had to accept that.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
After about three weeks, I got into it and then
I loved it.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
It saved my life. Wow, and you've been sober for
how long now since twenty nineteen congratulations years.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Yes, you're one of those guys that you would keep
popping up in the news and we were all cheering
for you. It's like, damn it, Doc, like get it
together a little bit, you know. And I remember because
I'm a Clinton Indians fan. So you joined Arty for
a while and you know, and you pitch for us,
and then you threw the no hitter with the Yankees
and had you know, some moments there and it was
like it was right there, you know, and it was
like you were just I remember, like it was always
(16:46):
kind of like damn, I hope he I.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Did so close. It was times. I got five years,
I got six years.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
I went from in eighty seven when I missed the
parade in eety six, I went from there to ninety four.
So I got seven years, and I'll get three years
and I get five years, I get four years.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
But I never get it because every.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Time something I found out that was deep in there
were and not to justify anything, but like I witnessed
my sister getting shot eight times right when I was
five years old, and I ran in the bathroom. I
got in the tub and I pulled a shower curtains
until the police came and all that and they got
me out right. So what I'm saying is anytime I
would getting high, when I'm home by myself in a hotel,
(17:25):
pull them together, you always go to a bathroom.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
And that was part of it.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
I never dealt with that, the connection because growing up
in the inner city, that's normal. I seen my mom
and shoot my dad. She didn't kill him, but she
shot him. That's normal. It's like, oh you fine, just
forget it. I've seen best friends gelt stabbed, best friends
get killed. Oh that's a normal, is no big deal.
You did not dealt with, never dealt with none of it.
But that's real stuff. And so it was. The drugs
(17:48):
were just as symptom of my problems. I never dealt
with that because I'm a man. Man don't cry. I
keep everything in. But that'suff builds up and your self medicate.
So once I dealt with all that, and I had
to forgive myself the guilt and a shame that brought
to my kids and my family, missing the school activities,
missing litleague games, short up out of my mind, all
this stuff, the voice of my first wife because I
(18:10):
got another girl pregnant. I had to forgive myself for
all of that and then go and make amends with it.
That was the hardest part, but I had to do it.
Once I did everything they told me, and I tried
to do it my way, it got better. I did
a book, doctor minoir one year. Wife just put it
all out there. I didn't know how people are going
to sell me, I say, but this is me, that's
what I am. Is for me.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
I'm guessing that they loved you much more than you
ever could have expected. Isn't that the irony of life?
I run a men's coaching program, and one of the
things we teach the men to do is to take
that mask off, because what we think is is if
anybody knows who I really am, they won't love me.
But then you don't accept any of the love you're
getting because you know you're wearing a mask, that's right,
and so you can't feel the love even though people
are trying to pour into you. So when you take
(18:51):
that mask off and you say, look, this is me.
I'm a broken man, but this is me, and you
become so much more lovable. Yes, And you're just such
a perfect, beautiful example of that.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
That's why I was once.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
I did it because I was scary, because since I
was ten years old, always like the chosen one.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
You're gonna be great.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
You're dominating baseball, We're gonna be great, but everything associated baseball,
not me the person. And then I get caught up
in that, and then everybody's telling you you're so great,
and then seventeen you get drafted, and now maybe to
take care of my entire family, get us out of
this mess. And then nineteen. I'm taking care of everybody.
I opened like everybody this block. I got like houses
for my brothers, my sisters.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Was that just an expectation that you knew that they
had or was that something you just wanted to do or.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Something I wanted to do for my family because they
made it possible for me. Sure they would get me
to practice, they give me my gear.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Was that a heavy burden though, to just have heavy because.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Because even though like my parents, that's normal. But then
you got your sisters, you got your brothers, you got
your nephews, you got your nieces. That's kind of like
hanging on. And then they want you to pay the
utility bills and you need a car. Then they need
help with this, they need diapers. And then now you
become a people person because I want to be like,
I feel this thing I'm supposed to do.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
I'm guessing you learned a lot of lessons on it,
not saying yes to things.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
I found a lot even by fact I've been burned
by family members that really hurt me.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
But then you get call up in it.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
And then when you don't feel good about yourself and
you're going through your problems, you want to be liked.
You know, you got the addiction problem. So at first
it comes that I'm gonna do this for you, so
leave me alone.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
I go do what I want to do.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Then it becomes a problem where I want these persons
to like me and forgive me, so I'm gonna get
them where everything they want.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
And you know, my kids and my grandkids, it's like
I missed.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
All this stuff. I feel like I owed them or
a guilt and the shame, but I can't redo that.
And then my mom told me one time also, she goes,
if if God forgive you and we forgive you, how
come you can forgive yourself?
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Who are you not to forgive yourself? And I thought
about that. I said, wow, that's deep.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
But it goes back to I was keeping that and
so to keep me, they go back out there there's
the self pity kicks, and that's what I was doing.
And then you self meditate, and then it becomes a cycle. Wow.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Well, it's really cool to be able to sit down
and kind of have you explain, because I think there's
so many people out there that you know, they think, well,
if I just get to this point, then everything will
work its way out. I mean you were on top
of the world. I mean, you were literally the best
picture in baseball. You just won the World Series, and
you're dealing with all these you know. I think there's
so much to learn from your story. I think that's
why it's so powerful for you sharing it.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Yeah, it means more like when a lot of times,
even I go to speak at schools, I'll talk about
baseball to get their attention, I'll switch it because I
enjoy my career. I enjoyed that, but I enjoyed talking
about life issues even more because this is serious stuff
and people lost their life doing a lot lesson I've done.
I'm sure. Yeah, and I'm still here, and I'm thinking
(21:35):
here for a reason, and I'm get my responsibility to
carry that message. But tho was it not here because
it got the opportunity to do that? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (21:43):
So when you got sober after the prey and all
that that, you said you were sober for a couple
of years after that. Was it difficult then to be
around teammates that were still partying everything?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
How did you manage that? Because you and Darrel worked
really close, and I think it was I was sober
from drugs but not alcohol.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Okay, so it just amount of time I wasn't going
to mean I wasn't doing anything, and I was only
sober because it was testing me.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
The testing would keep me clean.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
But soon as so, you still use something to numb
the pain, drinking drug I was drinking even more, drinking
increase a lot.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
I just wasn't using drugs.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
And what's crazy is Mike shared this with you in
two thousand and one. I was in Spring Sheet and
the Yankees and still wasn't going to meetings or whatever. Right,
and I had been cleaned for a while only because
they was testing me.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
And I hurt my knee.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
I told my MCL And so now they say, well,
it'll take like two months to rehabit, that you probably
go to Triple A for two months. That I only
give you maybe a month back in the majorly it's
depending on how you're doing.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
And then Saber say, oh you can work for me.
The first thing hit my mind.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
They tell you how the disease works, was wow, no
more testing after all these years.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
That's the first thing you hit my mind.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
It wasn't like, let me go talk to my family,
let me talk to my wife, let me sleep on it.
You're like, wow, no more testing, because if I wasn't
doing I wasn't connected to support group, I wasn't going
to no meetings, I wasn't doing the twelve step. I
wasn't doing all the things I know I was supposed
to do because I felt like, well, I'm not going
to use because.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
They tested me. But so it as they said, well
I said no more testing.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
All I thought about was, Wow, I.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Can get high at night. Who can I call?
Speaker 3 (23:10):
And the other thing was I kept those numbers, So
that's a red flag. Keeping those drug numbers in my phone.
That's a big, big rig flag while you hold on
those numbers if you're not going to use. So looking
at all that now and looking back at it, I'm like,
I never really I'll say, committed to being in recovery
at that time, got it at that time.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
So it was just a matter of time before something happened.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
It happened back, and it did in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
So when you look back on your career with you know,
I mean you again, you kind of had to run
with the mats and then you know, you have again.
You had some pretty cool moments with the Yankees. How
do you sum up your career? How does it feel
like being on this side of it now when you
look back, How do you feel about the span of
just your entire career?
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Oh? Man, I think it was great. I mean I
look back at it. Sometimes I still had to pitch
myself because I look back, like, I'll go to one.
I was in prison, right, I thought I was done.
I'm like, man, I could I get to this point?
So I beat myself up. But at the same time,
I was able to forgive myself and move forward and
be thankful for the career that I had because growing
up as a kid, my only dream was to play
in the major leagues. I never thought about winning roll Series,
(24:15):
never thought about having my number retired, none of that stuff,
and never thought about playing with the Yankees. I mean,
I got to accomplish everything and more that you could
dream of. Coming from Inner City, sharing the same coat
with my dad, doing one a time, sitting in front
of the stove when it's cold, and now here I'm
in the big League, all these wonderful things, meet all
these great people, making them some money, where I can
(24:36):
do stuff with my family, get them home. Stuff like that.
I look back at it even though I had my
problem off the field, but I can use that now
to help people. I've forgive myself, my family's forgiven me.
I look back at it, I'm like sometimes I just
go Wow, why, I mean, why did it happen to me?
And now I look back at it, why not me?
Because I'm going to do everything I can to help
somebody along the way.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Because it's almost I feel like the way that the
universe works, the energy of because of what you get
to do now.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Once you accept that this is a purpose that you now.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Have, retroactively heals all the pain from the past and
gives it purpose instead.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Definitely, so you can see it with that lens right,
Oh my god, I've got it.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
I got to ask this. I mean, I'm a baseball
guy and people have asked me before. They're like, what's
your dream? And I was like, you know, it would
either be to be like an elite middle linebacker in
the NFL or to be just a flamethrowing picture.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
You know. I mean the feeling you had to have when.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
You're on that mound and you're just blown at past guys,
that's got to be the best.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Feeling in the world. It is.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
I'm so and not to sound cocky anything like that,
but you know I want to hear it in nineteen
eighty five, well even eighty four. I'll go eighty four
by rookie year. Yeah, been in an All Star game, right, yeah?
Nervous is I mean, oh my god, some nervous My
life swam bullets. I was so nervous. Well, I wanted
to get in, but I didn't care about it. Didn't
get in just being around all my heroes. I get
in that game, and now you know, it's a game
(25:55):
of a week, a game in a row. Howidkosel doing
a game? And I'll strike out those three guys and
I'm throwing smoke around and it's kind of like you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah,
you pumped up, you pumped your fields, like almost like
the football mentality where you're like, yeah, yeah, there's a picture, right,
And then they take it further than nineteen eighty five.
I got Gary Carter as my catcher, who's the nicest guy,
but on the field he's a warrior and he's bringing
(26:17):
all this stuff out of me. You have to sell
crowds picture of the shade stadium, like Mike Schmidt Andre
dalson these big guys, and I'm not, you know, blowing smoke,
but to strike these guys out and blow fastball by
these guys like yeah, take that, it's my house and
all this stuff.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Even though I'm not that type of person. I'm a
real child. But at that night, it's.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Like either King of the Hill, people dare to watch you.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
People are trying to watch you.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
And then when you go to a restaurant, you see
these people are like, oh man, I can't wait to
see your pitch.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
So you know it's a bigger It's bigger than just
a game.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
They want to see the ten strikeouts, they want to
shut out, they want the one hitter, and there's more
media attention. And I self that challenge and I wanted
to be the guy out there. It was one of
the greatest films that I can possibly have. They didn't
go to the flip side of that. Once you retire,
you always trying to chase out of drilling rush and
you can never get it. Yeah, it must be how
do you get to And that's why I battle with
(27:09):
also trying to set well at now and be okay
with it.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
But still it's nothing like that drilling rush, nothing like that. Yeah,
you know, take.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Us back to the no hitter because for those listening
that aren't a filly, I mean you kind of it
kind of bounced around a little bit after you know,
your success with the Mets, and it was kind of
like unexpected when you're with the Yankees.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
And oh so that was crazy.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
So like I say, in ninety four, I get suspended
from baseball, and then ninety five I test positive again.
Now I'm spending for an entire year of ninety five.
So I missed year and a half. I missed half
of ninety four, all of ninety five. It only got
maybe the Marlins give me a try out because Gary
Scheff and my nephews with them, And the Yankees because
Radny Groans a friend of mine who's friends with George Sandburner.
(27:55):
So I ended up signing with the Yankees. I start
off or and three they take me out rotation. They
basically benched me. When a picture gets bench, that means
you're not getting in. If it's you're uptowning down to
you're not getting in. You're trying to decide whether to
send me down to the minus or release me. Male
started my who was my pitching coach and I had
him earlier in my career with the Mets. We'll come
to the park early every day just working on stuff.
(28:18):
So I had confidence. I didn't lose faith, but I
just needed an opportunity. But I'm like, man, they're going
to release me and send me down wherever I go.
I'm not giving up. I'm not giving up. So I
had that only reason I had the confidence because I
started going to a in a and I had a sponsor.
I was doing my step work and all that when
I was suspended, so that gave me the confidence and
all that. So unfortunately David Cohne got the aneurysm in
(28:41):
his arm. George Steinberg is the only guy to say
put good and back in a rotation.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
It was Steinbrenner.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Yes, And because Joe Torrit the manager, and Frank Brian
Cashman German and said no, we think he's done. They
said no, put good bye in rotation. I got the
opportunity back in a rotation. My third start by Can
was the no hitter right in Seattle, Seattle before knocked
them Yankees out of her.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. That was the when Griffy hit
or Edgar Martinez hit the y yeah, yeah, and so
they still got that same lineup right.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
And now here I am the year before I went
home on my couch suspended watching this. Now Here, I
am pitching against these guys. And my dad had been
on the dollars for fifteen years and his helped to deteriorate. Okay,
And I was supposed to fly home Bill to build
him that day of the no hitter because he'll have
open heart surgery the next day. And they say, probably
not gonna make it, but he's got to have a surgery.
(29:31):
And so I thought that morning, I said, you know what,
I think my dad would want me to pitch. And Joe,
Joe Tory.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
I called him.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
I said, look, I'm coming in. I'm going to pitch.
I'm not going home.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
He said, no, go home, spend much time you.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Need your dad when you're ready to come back to No,
I'm coming in and say I'm going to pitch. Then
I called my mom. I said, Mom, I'm not coming home.
You got to come home. Your dad needs your support.
I'm picking up from the report. I don't hear nothing
about it. I hung the phone up on my mom
because I was feeling bad. Right, So this like around
eleven o'clock that morning, until I got ready to go
to the ballpark, I'm just crying, and I'm gonna say
my dad again, Am I making the right decision?
Speaker 2 (30:02):
I'm not making right decision.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
I get to the ballpark the first three and was
the game. I'm pitching whatever, joege Rody, who's catching me
put down? I'm just kind of throwing it right, And
I was standing between the dug out and the clubhouse
and a walkway sometime tearing up, wandering about my dad.
Not to the sixth in and you realize you got
to know hitter going because you see don runs, no
hits and arion on the scoreboard. And I was able
to put my dad situation aside pitch the rest of
(30:24):
the game. Pitched and no hitter. Took a ball from
the game to get to my dad. Obviously I didn't
fleep that night. I fly home, get to the hospital.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Doctor.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
The doctor say he saw the game. You know, he
cried a little bit after the game. He had to
had to survey his on life support. And I took
the ball there and he never made it home from
the hospital. But the last gave me so many pitches
had no hitter. That made it so much special.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Wow, I didn't realize that that was that tied together.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Oh yeah, that was together. I mean that was made
even that much special. And then I went on to
win like eight games in a row.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
That's crazy.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
It's hard not to be romantic about baseball. You hear
stories like that and it's like, tell me there's not
something special.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Almost definitely, that was definitely like, I'm not really a
Bible thump or anything like that, but I said myself
a good Christian and that was definitely a power graded
than myself to get me through that because it was
games where I had a lot better stuff, but that
particularly game when I needed to make a pitch, I
was able to make a pitch. I mean you're talking like,
you know, lineup Griffy.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Oh yeah, yeah, they were, they were loaded loaded.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
That's so beautiful.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Man.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Well, you had a chance to pitch for the Yankies
in the playoffs a little bit too, right. What year
was that when you were pitched with them in the
playoffs two thousand, Right, in two thousand Mets series.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Yeah, because ninety six when I came back my mom, Well,
because I missed a year and a half, and so
towards the end of the season, I just fatigued out
I missed that, So that sucked.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
But I helped get them to get them there.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
I feel yeah, yeah, the Mets fans probably you were
probably a little torn since I mean that was your.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
Two thousand stuff. You don't know what two thousand and touf.
So ninety four the mess cut times. I wanted to
go back, and they said, no, we're going to move on,
which I understand it was trying to. I pitched for
the Yankees ninety six ninety seven. After ninety seven, I
called the Mets. I was a free agent. Steve Follows
general manager, and I had known Steve. We played together
in ninety two. A little falls, so I called Steve.
(32:11):
I said, Steve, any chance he gave me to come back.
He goes, we got no room, doctor, sorry, And I'm
not taking a shot at Steve or the Mets've got
no room. So I signed with Cleveland. I went to
Cleveland ninety nine. After ninety nine, I called him Mets again.
I said, I like to come home. I want to
pitch for the Mets. It's not about the money. I
want to come back. It's unfortunately we got no room.
I signed with the Astros in two thousand. I pitched
(32:33):
one game. I got traded in Tampa after one start.
I pitched eight games. I got released. I called them
Mets again, said I'll.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Go to Triple A.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
I'll do whatever I want to finish my career in
the Mets. I was turned down again. Mister Simon Berner
called me himself, say I was living in Tampa at
the time. Where yan Yeah. He said, do you still
want to play? I said yes. He said, show up
tomorrow work out with Billy Connors, the late Billy Connors.
If it doesn't work out, you can work for me.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Sorry.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
I go over there for maybe two weeks working out, pitch,
two games and rookie ball whatever, none special. The next
day they called me in the office. I'm like, damn,
they probably gonna release me. But it goes we need
a pitch in New York. I'm like, what you mean.
He goes, well, we have a day night double hitter.
The day game is at Shade Stadium, the night games
of Yankee City. They want you to pitch the day
game against the mess and I'm not ready, but I
(33:22):
can't say I'm not ready. I'm thinking I'm probably gonna
get hammered. At least I get to go to shade
this one last time I go up there. I fly
to New York.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
In the bullpen, I'm warming up and I got absolutely nothing.
Males and you know as a picture when you've got
your stuff or not?
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Yes, and I got nothing. Balls not spinning my locations
off the mals like dot, get you on my doc,
your leg. Doc then found he wasn't saying anything. Now
I'm walking to the dugout. This started the game right
down to the tunnel and noringly there's only one pitcher,
sometimes two pictures the lone relievers that walk down. It's
the entire bullpen going down. Everybody but Marion and miror
the closer because he.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Knew you didn't have your stuff.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
I have my stuff.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
It's gonna be a short night, right, and then we'll
make it worse. I get in the dugout.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
And then when I take them out and Joe Torri goes,
come on, Doc, you want if you got one in
whatever with something, you'd never tell the story.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
You get your.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
I end up pitching five minutes and I got to
win at schae stating it was like when I got
on the mount at Shakee Stadium, everything is clicked. It
was like being home. Everything that came together. I was like, Wow,
I got the win, and then I stayed with the
Mets the rest of the year. We beat the Mets
in the Rows Series, and then you know, it was
funny because I wanted I still want to sign with
the Mets after that for one year.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
I mean for one day to.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
Retire when I hurt my arm, and they said no.
But it was all timing because last year retirement number. Yeah, yeah,
and so it's a matter of everything. It's tim and
I tell people everything it's timing because I still have
my problem. I still had that twenty nineteen. And so
once I got all that right and then retirement number,
there was just time was right. I was really got
able to enjoy that because if I was still active
(34:51):
in my action, it wouldn't have been That's true.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Yeah, you got to really be present with us, yes, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
So what's your currently ship with Mets, Yankees in baseball
in general?
Speaker 3 (34:59):
So what now is I go to Springs training with
the bests pretty much my own. I'm a big fans
still just see the guys with a couple of friends.
I do a lot of meet and greets in the
suites with Yankees and Mets, sign autographs.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Take photos, talk baseball. I love doing it.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
In the days, I'm not doing that if they're one
of the team's at home either or I'm at the
games watching it. And it's fun because a lot of
people say, why would you go, Like I just did
the Yankees Old Thomas game, right, So why do you
go to Yankee Old Thomas game? You have met they
just retired to number. I say, but the Yankees, I mean,
I wont two paros series there fishing, no hitter there.
I got to be lawyer told me they have the opportunity to
stay in New York. I feel like, oh that to
(35:34):
them and to the fans. The fans on both sides
have been great. Yeah, but it's a lot of fun.
And then I have eleven grand kids now, so there's
some boys that are playing a litle league baseball. I
messed my kids school activities, you know when I grow
up because I was playing or the litt league games.
Either I was playing or my addiction. So now with
my grandkids, I get to enjoy that I have two
younger kids from because I was married twice, so I
(35:55):
have five kids from my first marriage too. For the second,
I have a daughter in high school in Maryland playing
so so I get to see all her games. I
have a son just transferred from the University of Maryland.
He's that segrament of state playing football. Sweet, so I
enjoy that. So yeah, so it's fun.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
That's really cool.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Well, it's fun to hear you on this side of
everything and be able to kind of, you know, the
full arc and the full journey.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
I think that's what life is, right, It's that hero's journey.
It's like and I.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Think the mistake that a lot of people make is
they think that once I arrive to this place, then
everything's just going to work out. One thing I know
about life is it's going to keep life and to
hitch and you never know what tomorrow's guys, you never know.
But that resilience and that ability to just keep fighting
and keep getting up, and it's a really beautiful thing
about life.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
I agree, that's what it's about. Like, I get knocked out.
I've been knocked down a lot.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
I share with my kids. I said, you're gonna get
knocked down. It's going to happen. We don't know from
what angle, what's going to cause it, but it's.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Going to happen. That's part of life.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
But a lot of times your own experience is your
best experience. I say, But as long as you keep
getting up, as long as you keepetting up, all you.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
So you speak a lot and you do a lot
of publics being stuff. Now what advice do you have
for somebody that maybe they've been where you were, where
they've been on drug so they have an alcohol problem
and they can't shake it.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
What do you say to them to try to help out?
Speaker 3 (37:04):
I think the main thing and they really want it.
Number one, you have to be honest with yourself. Find
that one person that you can talk to about anything.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Like not everything and anything. Yeah, you got it.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Empty it out that one thing you hold, that one
secret will always keep you sick. Get it out and
feel like you're not gonna be judged. It's between you
and I feel that guilt and shame when you're talking
with that person because it's gonna be some pain, but
you got to get it out. But it gets better.
I promise you it'll get better once you get it
out and talk about it, but find that one person
that you can get that and then from that point
just be honest with yourself because we can fool those people,
(37:36):
can't fool ourselves and eventually catch it up and do
it for yourself. Because like for me and my experience,
I was able to say, I'm gonna do this for
my mom, get me through a little bit. I'm just
with my kids, give it through the bit, but I'm
gonna do it for myself that take care of my mom
and my kids and everybody else.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
But the main thing is in my head.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
I have to have someone as a higher power to
jump start you, but eventually gonna come back to you.
We gotta do it for yourself.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
And love yourself. It's beautiful. Well, thank you, Doc, such
an honor.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
And again, if you guys are watching this and you
go back and watch the highlights, if you want to
see the original Paul Skins it was Doc, go to
thank you.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Yeah, I appreciate you, Man Pleaure, thanks for having me.
I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Thank you again for listening to the Jimmy Rex Show.
If you liked this episode, please do me a quick favor.
Just go online, leave us a review, subscribe to our
show both on YouTube, Apple Podcasts and on Spotify, and
if you would share this with somebody else. Also, if
you're looking to make a real change in your life,
or if you have a man in your life that
you know, could you know just use a brotherhood or
(38:33):
some men around him to help him level up in
every area of life.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
I encourage you to look at we are the day.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
This is my men's coaching program I started several years
ago and we have been able to help close to
one thousand men now that have joined this program and
had a life changing, transformational experience. Several of these episodes
we talked to members of this group. We talk about
this group and if you are interested in learning more,
go to join what That's joined Watt dot com.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Seven
Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Jimmy Rex Show.
And this is one of my favorite podcasts I've ever
had the opportunity to do. This was with mister Dwight
Doc Gooden, and for you baseball fans, obviously, that's a treat.
Dwight Gooden is a two times World Series champion with
the nineteen eighty six Mets and then the.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Two thousand Yankees.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
He also won the nl Cy Young and won the
Triple Crown that same year. Few people in the history
of baseball have burst onto the scenes like Doc Goodin.
And the reason why this episode was so special is
because there was a time there in his career and
couldn't really get it all together with drugs and alcohol
and some other things that were happening. And to be
(00:38):
able to sit down and hear where he's at now.
He's been sober for six years now and he talks
about his journey. He talked about how he got therapy
and how he kind of overcame his demons, and it
was so beautiful. I just as I'm sitting across from
this guy, and I always not disliked him as a player,
but he was always on teams that like I didn't
want to win. I guess you could say the Mets
and the Yankees. And so it's funny because I never
(00:59):
really cheered from as a player. But I'm sitting across
doing this interview, in my heart just like went out.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
To this guy.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
I just wanted to give him a hug and felt
so much love and empathy for this man. And it
was just a really special interview. I know you're going
to enjoy it. Some one of my favorite reviews I've
ever done with a legend, a guy that I grew
up watching and collecting his baseball card, and just a
pleasure to be able to have this podcast with mister
Dwight Good. Today's podcast is brought to you by Bucked
Up Supplements. You guys, you know, doing these athlete podcasts
(01:27):
it can be a little bit draining sometimes because I
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doing it, I'm trying to stay hydrated, but I'm also
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(01:47):
listen today's podcast, just remember that it is sponsored by
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Speaker 3 (02:02):
Doc.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Great to be here with you. Yeah, thanks for having me, buddy. Yeah. Thanks. Well,
we met briefly once several years. You wouldn't remember it.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
It was the It was Yankees Red Sox game seven,
when they came back from down three h four. You
were there, and I just came up and said hi
real quick, and that was it. But that was that
was kind of a crazy game. Oh man, it was tough.
So I'll work with the Yanks.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
At the time, I was up on the George Sunburn
and I had to watch every game with him.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Oh wow, Oh my gosh. How was he reacted during
that series?
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Oh my god. I took the beating. I mean, I'm
not even playing. I got nothing to do with the game.
Another picture coding thing. But I was a beating boy.
But Joyce was great, man. But that was tough to watch. Yeah, aftly,
but you knew once he got to game seven it
wasn't gonna be good.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Yeah, kind of.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
It was such an interesting game. I remember I was
watching Game six at my house, you know, the bloody
sock and everything, and I jumped on the internet. I
started messing around. I'm like, how much would tickets be
to that game? And I ended up finding a pretty
good deal. So I was from Utah and so I
flew out the first thing in the morning, my buddy
there and we went to Game seven and it was
just such an iconic moment.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
But you kind of knew the Red.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Sox were gonna you complete it, yes, And I felt
bad because Gary Sheffield, my nephew. That was his first
year with the Yankees, and you up to three games
to none, and you figured it, this is over. But
when stuff started happening. As a former player, you just
know the momentum changes. In game seven, we had no shot.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, no shot. But I remember early on they threw
a guy out at home.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
It was one of that I've never felt this in
a stadium before they threw out I think throughout, like
Manny Ramirez at home or something on a close play
and the stadium was going crazy, right, and then the
next pitch, I think Johnny Damon hit like a three
run homer and it was just you complete fifty five
thousand people from screaming to dead.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Side that it took him out of the game.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, well such a fun, such fun serious you know.
Speaking of Gary Sheffeld, I feel like he is one
of the most underrated power hitters of all time. He
was so as an opposing fan, you were so afraid
of Gary Sheffield when he came up to back.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Definitely, he's the only guy I think to have one
hundred RBIs with five different teams.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Wow, this guy, he definitely belongs in the whole of fame.
I agree.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
I mean he got caught in there the gospel. What
they'll send a bout some free stuff or whatever, but
he's a guy in the not just to be biased anything.
I grew up in the same house with this guys
sometimes share the same bed, and I would go to
my grapes and I know for a fight. I mean
I went with him every day, but I go to
my grape saying, I know for a fight. He didn't
take starb Roys, It's no way possible. I mean, this
guy was a natural hitter, loved the game since he
(04:21):
was ten years old, being outside playing with older guys.
All he knew and dreamed of his baseball and it's
hard to see that he's rumat to this when it's
guys that are in the Hall of Fame that we
knew that took start roys.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, it's interesting who they led. They like Dave Artis
and some of these other guys.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
It's like, hey, wait a second, why do we pick
and choose Jeff Bagwell, you know, it's like, why do
we choose which guys we get to let in?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Which guys?
Speaker 3 (04:41):
I think sometimes and it's not going to media anything
like that, but some of them they.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Take it personal. Like if Gary was one of those
guys where he spoke.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
His mind and if you don't like you, he's gonna
say why and say different things, and I think it
worked against him, which is not fair because numbers are numbers.
You gotta be able to separate the two. But he's
getting ponished.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
For being honest and that's not right. Yeah, you know,
there's a p sure right now that reminds me of you.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
I was trying to tell my camera guy, just explaining
how good you were your first couple of years in
their league and how you exploded on the scene right
after I mean just a year after getting drafted and
everything else, and and Paul Skids, I think you are
the best, uh sample or the best comparison to kind
of his dominance right now is when you were in
the league the first couple years.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
That's something I got to show you too. Yeah, Paul
Skates is definitely he's fun to watch. And I was
thinking they asked me to say, how do you think
I do in New York? I mean that type of
stuff is Moum Presidents. I think it'll do great in
New York. Obviously, you know he's untouchable right now, right,
but he's fun to watch and coming to lead. Actually,
with all the hype a lot of times Pitcher coming in,
you have all the hype and the build up, like Stratsburgh.
(05:42):
You know certain guys. Strasburg a little up too, but
the injuries got him a little bit. Matt Harvey came
into the league little to a lot of these guys.
They come into league with all his hype and they
don't stay healthy or they don't leave to it, like
the Mets for a while back we had Paul Wilson.
These guys with winder guards then't live up to the hype.
But schemes is legit. He's a legit guy. They just
(06:02):
had a stat they see I pulled this over real
quick for you.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yeah, I was telling him.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
I was like, I don't think there's been a guy
that exploded on the scene like Skimes since you. I mean,
there's guys obviously, you know, they go through the process
and the minor leagues. But you were so young and
so raw coming in and had such a dominating performance
right out at the back.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Right that's that they just oh, ship, damn, okay, come on,
come on, come on. They just had to stat on
there right here.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
So Dwight Gooden had a one ninety one ear in
his first seventy two starts with twenty seven complete games
and thirteen shoutouts. Wow, you see it, because they said
they've never seen anyone like him. They said Dwight good
was Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's kind of funny,
Like I got his numbers are not quite as good
as yours.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
He's right there.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
It's crazy. Yeah, it's still good.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
They've been retired for twenty five years and these pictures
come up in the still compare them to you.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
I mean, it's pretty special.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
I like that.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Yeah, I mean, go back those days. Those Mets teams
were so crazy, you know that. One of my first
memories is the eighty six World Series. Bruce Hurst had
pitched it. I think, b why you were in Utah
or something my dad, So, my dad kind of knew
him a little bit, and so he was, you know,
he was a big Red Sox guy during the series.
I remember, you know, you guys go out there and
end up meeting them, and.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
That was a crazy series.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Man.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I remember.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Game six, obviously, right in our stadium, Shaye Stadium. They
got congratulations boss of Red Sox. I remember, I mean,
we're down two runs, two runs, two outs, is over,
and I remember the bat boy had to come in
the clubhouse to get Kevin Mitchell to pinch hit. Kevin
Mitchell has jersey off you from the phone. It was
late throws jerseys on go after get the pitch it.
(07:46):
I mean, it's crazy. We got the game seven. We
knew after what happened in Game six, there's no way
to coming back from you.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yeah, no, you don't come back from losing a game
like that.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
I tell you we got lost, not to cut you off,
but I say, what else was game six of the
playoffs against.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Yeah, that was kind of the crazier game, right. It
was at the fifteen inning game or whatever it was.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
That was our game set. We had to win that
game because if not, we had Scott the next night.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Then he'd been out hit about that and our hitters
he was someone to I hitter his head where.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
I mean, he's done more trying to catch him cheating
than trying to get a hit off of him. Now shot.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
So you go back to that team a little bit
because it's one of those iconic teams. There's books been
written about you guys. I mean, was it as crazy
as you hear the rumors? How nuts you guys were?
Probably crazier if possible. I mean, we have some crazy guys.
But that was that was the thing in the eighties.
I mean, like all the stuff on Wall Street, Sure,
what do you call it? The pop singers, everybody, That's
what everybody's doing. And unfortunately from a personal set, probably
(08:38):
got caught up in it. But at that time we
had a crazy bunch of guys. Man, but fun, I mean,
we would go but I'll use this for example, like
at Wrigley before they got the lights, right, we go
to Chicago, checking the hotel, go in the room, you
call your girlfriendly wives, and then the twenty five man roster,
at least twenty three of us meet by downstairs. All
but maybe Mookie Wilson and Gary Carter meet down said
(08:59):
we got the dinner. They would go out to the
clubs we went to at hours.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
We go to at that.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Hours, at hours, get back to the hotel on time,
with showered, get on the bus, go to the ballpark,
and the next day do it all over again.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Holy smoke, that's kind of team we had. That's insane.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
I mean, looking back on that, obviously, that is kind
of how the eighties kind of were.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
But what could have they?
Speaker 1 (09:18):
I mean, you know, obviously I kind of played it
part in the derail in your career a little bit
in Strawberry as well. You know, you two are two
of the most talented young players ever played the game.
In hindsight, do you wish that there would have been
more adults in the room to kind of help support
you guys in that time?
Speaker 3 (09:32):
I think, to be honest with you, most of my
problems happened in Tampa, not New York. When I would
go home, I had all this free time, I was
hanging around guys that I grew up with, I went
to school with. They're not doing anything, They're hanging on
the tree, drinking, smoking, doing drugs. I would go back
to those guys and hang around in the atmosphere. New
York was kind of like carry on part of it.
(09:53):
But all my problems really started in Tampa. I think
in New York the help was there, but me personal now,
I didn't think I had a problem, but my triver
can say I did a problem from the beginning and
then plus and not to justify anything, I was on
a pedestal, like seventeen years old. I'm taking care of
my entire family. So when I said, you know, I'm
(10:13):
not right something right, Oh, you're fine, Just have a drink,
You'll be fine. And I grew up in a household
where I had a lot of love, a lot of support.
But men don't cry, men don't hug, men don't talk
about problems. Pull your boots up, tighten up, get tough,
you know, and go. My dad was like that. I
knew my dad loved me, but he never told me
loved me because his dad probably never told him, and
so on and so on, that's just the way the generations.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
So even with me, I had.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
To break that cycle and get comfortable with telling my boys.
The girls I can say, I love you my boys.
I actually I had to have therapy feel comfortable telling
my boys I loved him and hugging my boys, not
the brothers they love hug, but a hug.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
I mean, now, it's just normal.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
But to get to that point and people might say, yeah,
but that's normally just go and hug them. But when
you grow up that way and it's installing, it's not
that easy. And I wish I could explain it, but
I can just the way it was at that time,
and I'm just sharing that so nobody else will have
to go through that because it's horrible. It's a horrible thing.
But just to break that cycle, you have to do it.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Good for you though, I mean, you know, I think
that's the part that people don't realize. And this is
why I think life is so complicated people from the
outside looking in.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
It could be like, oh, Dwight.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Gooden had everything, and you know he didn't take advantage
of it, or you know he threw it away or.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Whatever you might want to say.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
But then you kind of start to humanize you a
little bit, and it's like, hey, your experience was not
my experience, and doing the best you could with the
information you had at the time, and you just happen
to be a really talented young kid. I can't imagine
being in New York with that kind of fame, that
kind of influence that you were under. I don't see
how you could have got out of that without having
(11:44):
some major life problems.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
It was tough because and then my thing was having
an ego, having pride.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
I want people to know, even though they know they
see what you're.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Doing, you're missing events, you're missing different things, so something's
not right. But for you to accept that and say,
like you say, I'm on a billboard, I'm taking care
of my entire family. I'm pitching well, so it's like
I don't have the problem. I'm not homeless. But yeah,
you yeah, the problem is getting worse. It's going to
get worse. It has to get worse before it's better.
And you got a team, and I'm not blaming the team,
(12:17):
but I'm pitching well, so they're not.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
They don't do anything. Yeah you're fine, Yeah you find okay, good.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
You're good. So when we had to help was there.
I'm gonna say, no, I don't have a problem. No,
I'm fine. First thing you say, I'm fine, because that's
what that's why I was raised, That's what I was taught. Yeah, Nil,
it got serious. I started having bad problems. Like when
I missed that parade, it was like, the worst thing
can happen to me?
Speaker 2 (12:38):
He missed the World Series pread Yes, in eighty six.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
When I missed that parade, it was like the worst
thing that happened to me, but the best thing that
happened at the same time, if that makes sense, because
I went from when we clinched that night before the
best of my life for the athlete, an athlete.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Right, I'm calling my dad.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
We're sharing this moment because me and my dad at
one time we shared the same coat at you know,
winder coat sitting in front of the oven and for heat.
You know, I keep in the back room. You got rapped,
all this stuff run across you. That's where I grew up.
But it was normal. I didn't even better. I had
pee some love at the house to get to where
I'm at now, you know, making decent money. We win
the Road Series I should be the greatest day of
our life. I called my dad, I called my mom,
(13:18):
were sharing that moment with crying. I hanged that phone
up and I called a drug dealer wrapter that to
get drugs. My thing was to get drugs and meet
the team at the club and then the next day
as a parade. I'm in the project. So I'm telling
you the God in the truth, I'm in these projects
meeting their drug dealer, start doing drugs, never make it
out of there that night. You want the World series night,
(13:38):
we want the Road series and the thing that sold
me up first. I'm watching them. I'll say I'll leave
her in an hour, and I say, okay, well it's late,
maybe thirty more minutes. Now, the sun's coming up. I
can't imagine what I'm looking like now. The parise's on
TV and I'm still in this drug house with people
I don't even know. I'm watching them parade on TV.
And that was ale. They helped me get help, but
(13:59):
at the same time, it kept me sick for a
long time because it's hard for me to forgive myself.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
But to be honest.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
When I got this real deep in twenty nineteen with
the therapy that I needed. I wouldn't forgive myself because
I was using that as a reservation and to keep going.
Bke out and I had a therapist that break them
down to me and tell me. It just hit me
with that, and man, it was like a big brick
hit me because I had to really look at it
and say, you're right. So in twenty nineteen, you were
able to find a therapist. Yeah, unfortunately, yeah, because what
(14:27):
happened on my fast forward just a little bit. So
in twenty nineteen, I got two d UI's in one week.
I mean, that's hard to do in one week, right,
And then Joe said, look, I'm gonna give you thirty
days in jail or I'm gonna let you make the decision.
I'm going to give you sixty days in treatment. I
said I don't want either. He said, well you go
and get one. You got no choice, right, I said,
(14:49):
I think I need a deeper help. He said, what
help do you want? He said, you didn't been to
seven rehabs, you know, been in prison. When are you
gonna get honest with yourself? I said, I'm in a
space now, Well I want to take this mass off,
meaning I'm tired of pretending to be somebody I'm not.
I'm trying to living up to some bad spectations. So
let me go to a mental institution for a year.
(15:10):
He said, really, I said, yes. He said, but I
don't think it's crazy. You know what you're doing, so
I'm not crazy, I said. But it was times where
I would literally be crying going to get drugs. I'll
be crying going to a liquor store, so you knew
it was going to be that much worse, but you
couldn't stop your stop. I would be crying going to
get the drugs, and then I get the drugs, and
then when I first do it, I feel better. It
releases everything. But then when I start so up, then
(15:32):
the guilt, shame and embarrassment, well look at the mirror
comes back. So I self medicating again and there's a cycle.
Then I'm driving around for three days, not sleeping, driving around,
and I remember the cops stopped me and they said, well,
we didn't.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Know it was you.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
I said, no, no, thank you, you're doing your job.
You probably saved my life and others, So thank you,
and steal those same cops with friends today that stopped
me in twenty eighteen, we'll go to games together. Because
that changed my whole life, and by the grace of God,
I've been good since and been able to share my
message because of going to get mental help. I went
to High Focus in New Jersey for a year. But
I have to accept that because when I first got there,
(16:08):
I mean, you see these people.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Man, it's sad, and you're like, oh, no, I don't
blow here.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
But then my therapist told me he goes you see
your trite record, Yeah, exactly where you belong.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
And I had to accept that.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
After about three weeks, I got into it and then
I loved it.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
It saved my life. Wow, and you've been sober for
how long now since twenty nineteen congratulations years.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Yes, you're one of those guys that you would keep
popping up in the news and we were all cheering
for you. It's like, damn it, Doc, like get it
together a little bit, you know. And I remember because
I'm a Clinton Indians fan. So you joined Arty for
a while and you know, and you pitch for us,
and then you threw the no hitter with the Yankees
and had you know, some moments there and it was
like it was right there, you know, and it was
like you were just I remember, like it was always
(16:46):
kind of like damn, I hope he I.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Did so close. It was times. I got five years,
I got six years.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
I went from in eighty seven when I missed the
parade in eety six, I went from there to ninety four.
So I got seven years, and I'll get three years
and I get five years, I get four years.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
But I never get it because every.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Time something I found out that was deep in there
were and not to justify anything, but like I witnessed
my sister getting shot eight times right when I was
five years old, and I ran in the bathroom. I
got in the tub and I pulled a shower curtains
until the police came and all that and they got
me out right. So what I'm saying is anytime I
would getting high, when I'm home by myself in a hotel,
(17:25):
pull them together, you always go to a bathroom.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
And that was part of it.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
I never dealt with that, the connection because growing up
in the inner city, that's normal. I seen my mom
and shoot my dad. She didn't kill him, but she
shot him. That's normal. It's like, oh you fine, just
forget it. I've seen best friends gelt stabbed, best friends
get killed. Oh that's a normal, is no big deal.
You did not dealt with, never dealt with none of it.
But that's real stuff. And so it was. The drugs
(17:48):
were just as symptom of my problems. I never dealt
with that because I'm a man. Man don't cry. I
keep everything in. But that'suff builds up and your self medicate.
So once I dealt with all that, and I had
to forgive myself the guilt and a shame that brought
to my kids and my family, missing the school activities,
missing litleague games, short up out of my mind, all
this stuff, the voice of my first wife because I
(18:10):
got another girl pregnant. I had to forgive myself for
all of that and then go and make amends with it.
That was the hardest part, but I had to do it.
Once I did everything they told me, and I tried
to do it my way, it got better. I did
a book, doctor minoir one year. Wife just put it
all out there. I didn't know how people are going
to sell me, I say, but this is me, that's
what I am. Is for me.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
I'm guessing that they loved you much more than you
ever could have expected. Isn't that the irony of life?
I run a men's coaching program, and one of the
things we teach the men to do is to take
that mask off, because what we think is is if
anybody knows who I really am, they won't love me.
But then you don't accept any of the love you're
getting because you know you're wearing a mask, that's right,
and so you can't feel the love even though people
are trying to pour into you. So when you take
(18:51):
that mask off and you say, look, this is me.
I'm a broken man, but this is me, and you
become so much more lovable. Yes, And you're just such
a perfect, beautiful example of that.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
That's why I was once.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
I did it because I was scary, because since I
was ten years old, always like the chosen one.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
You're gonna be great.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
You're dominating baseball, We're gonna be great, but everything associated baseball,
not me the person. And then I get caught up
in that, and then everybody's telling you you're so great,
and then seventeen you get drafted, and now maybe to
take care of my entire family, get us out of
this mess. And then nineteen. I'm taking care of everybody.
I opened like everybody this block. I got like houses
for my brothers, my sisters.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Was that just an expectation that you knew that they
had or was that something you just wanted to do or.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Something I wanted to do for my family because they
made it possible for me. Sure they would get me
to practice, they give me my gear.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Was that a heavy burden though, to just have heavy because.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Because even though like my parents, that's normal. But then
you got your sisters, you got your brothers, you got
your nephews, you got your nieces. That's kind of like
hanging on. And then they want you to pay the
utility bills and you need a car. Then they need
help with this, they need diapers. And then now you
become a people person because I want to be like,
I feel this thing I'm supposed to do.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
I'm guessing you learned a lot of lessons on it,
not saying yes to things.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
I found a lot even by fact I've been burned
by family members that really hurt me.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
But then you get call up in it.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
And then when you don't feel good about yourself and
you're going through your problems, you want to be liked.
You know, you got the addiction problem. So at first
it comes that I'm gonna do this for you, so
leave me alone.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
I go do what I want to do.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Then it becomes a problem where I want these persons
to like me and forgive me, so I'm gonna get
them where everything they want.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
And you know, my kids and my grandkids, it's like
I missed.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
All this stuff. I feel like I owed them or
a guilt and the shame, but I can't redo that.
And then my mom told me one time also, she goes,
if if God forgive you and we forgive you, how
come you can forgive yourself?
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Who are you not to forgive yourself? And I thought
about that. I said, wow, that's deep.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
But it goes back to I was keeping that and
so to keep me, they go back out there there's
the self pity kicks, and that's what I was doing.
And then you self meditate, and then it becomes a cycle. Wow.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Well, it's really cool to be able to sit down
and kind of have you explain, because I think there's
so many people out there that you know, they think, well,
if I just get to this point, then everything will
work its way out. I mean you were on top
of the world. I mean, you were literally the best
picture in baseball. You just won the World Series, and
you're dealing with all these you know. I think there's
so much to learn from your story. I think that's
why it's so powerful for you sharing it.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Yeah, it means more like when a lot of times,
even I go to speak at schools, I'll talk about
baseball to get their attention, I'll switch it because I
enjoy my career. I enjoyed that, but I enjoyed talking
about life issues even more because this is serious stuff
and people lost their life doing a lot lesson I've done.
I'm sure. Yeah, and I'm still here, and I'm thinking
(21:35):
here for a reason, and I'm get my responsibility to
carry that message. But tho was it not here because
it got the opportunity to do that? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (21:43):
So when you got sober after the prey and all
that that, you said you were sober for a couple
of years after that. Was it difficult then to be
around teammates that were still partying everything?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
How did you manage that? Because you and Darrel worked
really close, and I think it was I was sober
from drugs but not alcohol.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Okay, so it just amount of time I wasn't going
to mean I wasn't doing anything, and I was only
sober because it was testing me.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
The testing would keep me clean.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
But soon as so, you still use something to numb
the pain, drinking drug I was drinking even more, drinking
increase a lot.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
I just wasn't using drugs.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
And what's crazy is Mike shared this with you in
two thousand and one. I was in Spring Sheet and
the Yankees and still wasn't going to meetings or whatever. Right,
and I had been cleaned for a while only because
they was testing me.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
And I hurt my knee.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
I told my MCL And so now they say, well,
it'll take like two months to rehabit, that you probably
go to Triple A for two months. That I only
give you maybe a month back in the majorly it's
depending on how you're doing.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
And then Saber say, oh you can work for me.
The first thing hit my mind.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
They tell you how the disease works, was wow, no
more testing after all these years.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
That's the first thing you hit my mind.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
It wasn't like, let me go talk to my family,
let me talk to my wife, let me sleep on it.
You're like, wow, no more testing, because if I wasn't
doing I wasn't connected to support group, I wasn't going
to no meetings, I wasn't doing the twelve step. I
wasn't doing all the things I know I was supposed
to do because I felt like, well, I'm not going
to use because.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
They tested me. But so it as they said, well
I said no more testing.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
All I thought about was, Wow, I.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Can get high at night. Who can I call?
Speaker 3 (23:10):
And the other thing was I kept those numbers, So
that's a red flag. Keeping those drug numbers in my phone.
That's a big, big rig flag while you hold on
those numbers if you're not going to use. So looking
at all that now and looking back at it, I'm like,
I never really I'll say, committed to being in recovery
at that time, got it at that time.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
So it was just a matter of time before something happened.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
It happened back, and it did in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
So when you look back on your career with you know,
I mean you again, you kind of had to run
with the mats and then you know, you have again.
You had some pretty cool moments with the Yankees. How
do you sum up your career? How does it feel
like being on this side of it now when you
look back, How do you feel about the span of
just your entire career?
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Oh? Man, I think it was great. I mean I
look back at it. Sometimes I still had to pitch
myself because I look back, like, I'll go to one.
I was in prison, right, I thought I was done.
I'm like, man, I could I get to this point?
So I beat myself up. But at the same time,
I was able to forgive myself and move forward and
be thankful for the career that I had because growing
up as a kid, my only dream was to play
in the major leagues. I never thought about winning roll Series,
(24:15):
never thought about having my number retired, none of that stuff,
and never thought about playing with the Yankees. I mean,
I got to accomplish everything and more that you could
dream of. Coming from Inner City, sharing the same coat
with my dad, doing one a time, sitting in front
of the stove when it's cold, and now here I'm
in the big League, all these wonderful things, meet all
these great people, making them some money, where I can
(24:36):
do stuff with my family, get them home. Stuff like that.
I look back at it even though I had my
problem off the field, but I can use that now
to help people. I've forgive myself, my family's forgiven me.
I look back at it, I'm like sometimes I just
go Wow, why, I mean, why did it happen to me?
And now I look back at it, why not me?
Because I'm going to do everything I can to help
somebody along the way.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Because it's almost I feel like the way that the
universe works, the energy of because of what you get
to do now.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Once you accept that this is a purpose that you now.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Have, retroactively heals all the pain from the past and
gives it purpose instead.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Definitely, so you can see it with that lens right,
Oh my god, I've got it.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
I got to ask this. I mean, I'm a baseball
guy and people have asked me before. They're like, what's
your dream? And I was like, you know, it would
either be to be like an elite middle linebacker in
the NFL or to be just a flamethrowing picture.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
You know. I mean the feeling you had to have when.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
You're on that mound and you're just blown at past guys,
that's got to be the best.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Feeling in the world. It is.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
I'm so and not to sound cocky anything like that,
but you know I want to hear it in nineteen
eighty five, well even eighty four. I'll go eighty four
by rookie year. Yeah, been in an All Star game, right, yeah?
Nervous is I mean, oh my god, some nervous My
life swam bullets. I was so nervous. Well, I wanted
to get in, but I didn't care about it. Didn't
get in just being around all my heroes. I get
in that game, and now you know, it's a game
(25:55):
of a week, a game in a row. Howidkosel doing
a game? And I'll strike out those three guys and
I'm throwing smoke around and it's kind of like you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah,
you pumped up, you pumped your fields, like almost like
the football mentality where you're like, yeah, yeah, there's a picture, right,
And then they take it further than nineteen eighty five.
I got Gary Carter as my catcher, who's the nicest guy,
but on the field he's a warrior and he's bringing
(26:17):
all this stuff out of me. You have to sell
crowds picture of the shade stadium, like Mike Schmidt Andre
dalson these big guys, and I'm not, you know, blowing smoke,
but to strike these guys out and blow fastball by
these guys like yeah, take that, it's my house and
all this stuff.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Even though I'm not that type of person. I'm a
real child. But at that night, it's.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Like either King of the Hill, people dare to watch you.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
People are trying to watch you.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
And then when you go to a restaurant, you see
these people are like, oh man, I can't wait to
see your pitch.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
So you know it's a bigger It's bigger than just
a game.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
They want to see the ten strikeouts, they want to
shut out, they want the one hitter, and there's more
media attention. And I self that challenge and I wanted
to be the guy out there. It was one of
the greatest films that I can possibly have. They didn't
go to the flip side of that. Once you retire,
you always trying to chase out of drilling rush and
you can never get it. Yeah, it must be how
do you get to And that's why I battle with
(27:09):
also trying to set well at now and be okay
with it.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
But still it's nothing like that drilling rush, nothing like that. Yeah,
you know, take.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Us back to the no hitter because for those listening
that aren't a filly, I mean you kind of it
kind of bounced around a little bit after you know,
your success with the Mets, and it was kind of
like unexpected when you're with the Yankees.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
And oh so that was crazy.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
So like I say, in ninety four, I get suspended
from baseball, and then ninety five I test positive again.
Now I'm spending for an entire year of ninety five.
So I missed year and a half. I missed half
of ninety four, all of ninety five. It only got
maybe the Marlins give me a try out because Gary
Scheff and my nephews with them, And the Yankees because
Radny Groans a friend of mine who's friends with George Sandburner.
(27:55):
So I ended up signing with the Yankees. I start
off or and three they take me out rotation. They
basically benched me. When a picture gets bench, that means
you're not getting in. If it's you're uptowning down to
you're not getting in. You're trying to decide whether to
send me down to the minus or release me. Male
started my who was my pitching coach and I had
him earlier in my career with the Mets. We'll come
to the park early every day just working on stuff.
(28:18):
So I had confidence. I didn't lose faith, but I
just needed an opportunity. But I'm like, man, they're going
to release me and send me down wherever I go.
I'm not giving up. I'm not giving up. So I
had that only reason I had the confidence because I
started going to a in a and I had a sponsor.
I was doing my step work and all that when
I was suspended, so that gave me the confidence and
all that. So unfortunately David Cohne got the aneurysm in
(28:41):
his arm. George Steinberg is the only guy to say
put good and back in a rotation.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
It was Steinbrenner.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Yes, And because Joe Torrit the manager, and Frank Brian
Cashman German and said no, we think he's done. They
said no, put good bye in rotation. I got the
opportunity back in a rotation. My third start by Can
was the no hitter right in Seattle, Seattle before knocked
them Yankees out of her.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. That was the when Griffy hit
or Edgar Martinez hit the y yeah, yeah, and so
they still got that same lineup right.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
And now here I am the year before I went
home on my couch suspended watching this. Now Here, I
am pitching against these guys. And my dad had been
on the dollars for fifteen years and his helped to deteriorate. Okay,
And I was supposed to fly home Bill to build
him that day of the no hitter because he'll have
open heart surgery the next day. And they say, probably
not gonna make it, but he's got to have a surgery.
(29:31):
And so I thought that morning, I said, you know what,
I think my dad would want me to pitch. And Joe,
Joe Tory.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
I called him.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
I said, look, I'm coming in. I'm going to pitch.
I'm not going home.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
He said, no, go home, spend much time you.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Need your dad when you're ready to come back to No,
I'm coming in and say I'm going to pitch. Then
I called my mom. I said, Mom, I'm not coming home.
You got to come home. Your dad needs your support.
I'm picking up from the report. I don't hear nothing
about it. I hung the phone up on my mom
because I was feeling bad. Right, So this like around
eleven o'clock that morning, until I got ready to go
to the ballpark, I'm just crying, and I'm gonna say
my dad again, Am I making the right decision?
Speaker 2 (30:02):
I'm not making right decision.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
I get to the ballpark the first three and was
the game. I'm pitching whatever, joege Rody, who's catching me
put down? I'm just kind of throwing it right, And
I was standing between the dug out and the clubhouse
and a walkway sometime tearing up, wandering about my dad.
Not to the sixth in and you realize you got
to know hitter going because you see don runs, no
hits and arion on the scoreboard. And I was able
to put my dad situation aside pitch the rest of
(30:24):
the game. Pitched and no hitter. Took a ball from
the game to get to my dad. Obviously I didn't
fleep that night. I fly home, get to the hospital.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Doctor.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
The doctor say he saw the game. You know, he
cried a little bit after the game. He had to
had to survey his on life support. And I took
the ball there and he never made it home from
the hospital. But the last gave me so many pitches
had no hitter. That made it so much special.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Wow, I didn't realize that that was that tied together.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Oh yeah, that was together. I mean that was made
even that much special. And then I went on to
win like eight games in a row.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
That's crazy.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
It's hard not to be romantic about baseball. You hear
stories like that and it's like, tell me there's not
something special.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Almost definitely, that was definitely like, I'm not really a
Bible thump or anything like that, but I said myself
a good Christian and that was definitely a power graded
than myself to get me through that because it was
games where I had a lot better stuff, but that
particularly game when I needed to make a pitch, I
was able to make a pitch. I mean you're talking like,
you know, lineup Griffy.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Oh yeah, yeah, they were, they were loaded loaded.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
That's so beautiful.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Man.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Well, you had a chance to pitch for the Yankies
in the playoffs a little bit too, right. What year
was that when you were pitched with them in the
playoffs two thousand, Right, in two thousand Mets series.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Yeah, because ninety six when I came back my mom, Well,
because I missed a year and a half, and so
towards the end of the season, I just fatigued out
I missed that, So that sucked.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
But I helped get them to get them there.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
I feel yeah, yeah, the Mets fans probably you were
probably a little torn since I mean that was your.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
Two thousand stuff. You don't know what two thousand and touf.
So ninety four the mess cut times. I wanted to
go back, and they said, no, we're going to move on,
which I understand it was trying to. I pitched for
the Yankees ninety six ninety seven. After ninety seven, I
called the Mets. I was a free agent. Steve Follows
general manager, and I had known Steve. We played together
in ninety two. A little falls, so I called Steve.
(32:11):
I said, Steve, any chance he gave me to come back.
He goes, we got no room, doctor, sorry, And I'm
not taking a shot at Steve or the Mets've got
no room. So I signed with Cleveland. I went to
Cleveland ninety nine. After ninety nine, I called him Mets again.
I said, I like to come home. I want to
pitch for the Mets. It's not about the money. I
want to come back. It's unfortunately we got no room.
I signed with the Astros in two thousand. I pitched
(32:33):
one game. I got traded in Tampa after one start.
I pitched eight games. I got released. I called them
Mets again, said I'll.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Go to Triple A.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
I'll do whatever I want to finish my career in
the Mets. I was turned down again. Mister Simon Berner
called me himself, say I was living in Tampa at
the time. Where yan Yeah. He said, do you still
want to play? I said yes. He said, show up
tomorrow work out with Billy Connors, the late Billy Connors.
If it doesn't work out, you can work for me.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Sorry.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
I go over there for maybe two weeks working out, pitch,
two games and rookie ball whatever, none special. The next
day they called me in the office. I'm like, damn,
they probably gonna release me. But it goes we need
a pitch in New York. I'm like, what you mean.
He goes, well, we have a day night double hitter.
The day game is at Shade Stadium, the night games
of Yankee City. They want you to pitch the day
game against the mess and I'm not ready, but I
(33:22):
can't say I'm not ready. I'm thinking I'm probably gonna
get hammered. At least I get to go to shade
this one last time I go up there. I fly
to New York.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
In the bullpen, I'm warming up and I got absolutely nothing.
Males and you know as a picture when you've got
your stuff or not?
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Yes, and I got nothing. Balls not spinning my locations
off the mals like dot, get you on my doc,
your leg. Doc then found he wasn't saying anything. Now
I'm walking to the dugout. This started the game right
down to the tunnel and noringly there's only one pitcher,
sometimes two pictures the lone relievers that walk down. It's
the entire bullpen going down. Everybody but Marion and miror
the closer because he.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Knew you didn't have your stuff.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
I have my stuff.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
It's gonna be a short night, right, and then we'll
make it worse. I get in the dugout.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
And then when I take them out and Joe Torri goes,
come on, Doc, you want if you got one in
whatever with something, you'd never tell the story.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
You get your.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
I end up pitching five minutes and I got to
win at schae stating it was like when I got
on the mount at Shakee Stadium, everything is clicked. It
was like being home. Everything that came together. I was like, Wow,
I got the win, and then I stayed with the
Mets the rest of the year. We beat the Mets
in the Rows Series, and then you know, it was
funny because I wanted I still want to sign with
the Mets after that for one year.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
I mean for one day to.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
Retire when I hurt my arm, and they said no.
But it was all timing because last year retirement number. Yeah, yeah,
and so it's a matter of everything. It's tim and
I tell people everything it's timing because I still have
my problem. I still had that twenty nineteen. And so
once I got all that right and then retirement number,
there was just time was right. I was really got
able to enjoy that because if I was still active
(34:51):
in my action, it wouldn't have been That's true.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Yeah, you got to really be present with us, yes, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
So what's your currently ship with Mets, Yankees in baseball
in general?
Speaker 3 (34:59):
So what now is I go to Springs training with
the bests pretty much my own. I'm a big fans
still just see the guys with a couple of friends.
I do a lot of meet and greets in the
suites with Yankees and Mets, sign autographs.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Take photos, talk baseball. I love doing it.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
In the days, I'm not doing that if they're one
of the team's at home either or I'm at the
games watching it. And it's fun because a lot of
people say, why would you go, Like I just did
the Yankees Old Thomas game, right, So why do you
go to Yankee Old Thomas game? You have met they
just retired to number. I say, but the Yankees, I mean,
I wont two paros series there fishing, no hitter there.
I got to be lawyer told me they have the opportunity to
stay in New York. I feel like, oh that to
(35:34):
them and to the fans. The fans on both sides
have been great. Yeah, but it's a lot of fun.
And then I have eleven grand kids now, so there's
some boys that are playing a litle league baseball. I
messed my kids school activities, you know when I grow
up because I was playing or the litt league games.
Either I was playing or my addiction. So now with
my grandkids, I get to enjoy that I have two
younger kids from because I was married twice, so I
(35:55):
have five kids from my first marriage too. For the second,
I have a daughter in high school in Maryland playing
so so I get to see all her games. I
have a son just transferred from the University of Maryland.
He's that segrament of state playing football. Sweet, so I
enjoy that. So yeah, so it's fun.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
That's really cool.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Well, it's fun to hear you on this side of
everything and be able to kind of, you know, the
full arc and the full journey.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
I think that's what life is, right, It's that hero's journey.
It's like and I.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Think the mistake that a lot of people make is
they think that once I arrive to this place, then
everything's just going to work out. One thing I know
about life is it's going to keep life and to
hitch and you never know what tomorrow's guys, you never know.
But that resilience and that ability to just keep fighting
and keep getting up, and it's a really beautiful thing
about life.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
I agree, that's what it's about. Like, I get knocked out.
I've been knocked down a lot.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
I share with my kids. I said, you're gonna get
knocked down. It's going to happen. We don't know from
what angle, what's going to cause it, but it's.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Going to happen. That's part of life.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
But a lot of times your own experience is your
best experience. I say, But as long as you keep
getting up, as long as you keepetting up, all you.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
So you speak a lot and you do a lot
of publics being stuff. Now what advice do you have
for somebody that maybe they've been where you were, where
they've been on drug so they have an alcohol problem
and they can't shake it.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
What do you say to them to try to help out?
Speaker 3 (37:04):
I think the main thing and they really want it.
Number one, you have to be honest with yourself. Find
that one person that you can talk to about anything.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Like not everything and anything. Yeah, you got it.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Empty it out that one thing you hold, that one
secret will always keep you sick. Get it out and
feel like you're not gonna be judged. It's between you
and I feel that guilt and shame when you're talking
with that person because it's gonna be some pain, but
you got to get it out. But it gets better.
I promise you it'll get better once you get it
out and talk about it, but find that one person
that you can get that and then from that point
just be honest with yourself because we can fool those people,
(37:36):
can't fool ourselves and eventually catch it up and do
it for yourself. Because like for me and my experience,
I was able to say, I'm gonna do this for
my mom, get me through a little bit. I'm just
with my kids, give it through the bit, but I'm
gonna do it for myself that take care of my mom
and my kids and everybody else.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
But the main thing is in my head.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
I have to have someone as a higher power to
jump start you, but eventually gonna come back to you.
We gotta do it for yourself.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
And love yourself. It's beautiful. Well, thank you, Doc, such
an honor.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
And again, if you guys are watching this and you
go back and watch the highlights, if you want to
see the original Paul Skins it was Doc, go to
thank you.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Yeah, I appreciate you, Man Pleaure, thanks for having me.
I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Thank you again for listening to the Jimmy Rex Show.
If you liked this episode, please do me a quick favor.
Just go online, leave us a review, subscribe to our
show both on YouTube, Apple Podcasts and on Spotify, and
if you would share this with somebody else. Also, if
you're looking to make a real change in your life,
or if you have a man in your life that
you know, could you know just use a brotherhood or
(38:33):
some men around him to help him level up in
every area of life.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
I encourage you to look at we are the day.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
This is my men's coaching program I started several years
ago and we have been able to help close to
one thousand men now that have joined this program and
had a life changing, transformational experience. Several of these episodes
we talked to members of this group. We talk about
this group and if you are interested in learning more,
go to join what That's joined Watt dot com.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Seven
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