#662 – Julie Theis – Reality TV Star from Netflix “The Trust,” Psychoanalyzing Celebrity Disorders - The Jimmy Rex Show

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Jimmy Rex Show.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
Today on the podcast, we have Julie Tice and some
of you reality people that might recognize her from the
movie The Trust, the TV show The Trust, and otherwise
you might if you follow her on YouTube. She is
one of the best people to listen to really understand
human behavior psychology, and she ties it to really cool celebrities.
We're going to get it all into this on the

(00:22):
podcast so that you can really understand a better, relate
to it better, and does an amazing job with it.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
So it was excited to have her on the podcast.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
Julie, welcome to Sure, thank you for having me.

Speaker 4 (00:31):
That was a great intro.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
Hey, it's really cool.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
I watched the one that you just did on the Kardashians,
and I didn't really know that that's what you did
because I just met you at a party, and it
was kind of funny to pull it up and be like, oh,
she's she's creating some really fascinating stuff. Because most people
they want to get into the creation game, but they
want a half asset. They want to try to go
viral without actually doing the work. And what I noticed
immediately with you is like, oh, she's doing the work,

(00:56):
like you're researching, you are making sure that you are
dialed and putting out content that people actually want to watch.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
Like I was sad when the episode was over. I
was like I wanted more. I was like, this is good.

Speaker 3 (01:06):
So anyway, I know I get that when people will
because I am a content creator and I've been on
social media for a long time, and they're like, how
can I go viral? How can I be an influencer?
And I'm like, what value are you providing to people?

Speaker 4 (01:17):
I get that up.

Speaker 3 (01:18):
So people are so entitled, especially nowadays, if they just
want to be perceived proceed perceived. I'm like, why why
would someone why would someone watch you? And we all
want to be like special in that way, But what
lead with value?

Speaker 1 (01:30):
First?

Speaker 2 (01:30):
That's what I always say too, is like, Okay, why
would somebody share your content? That's the question I always
ask why would somebody share what you're putting out? If
they wouldn't, then it doesn't have much value or actually
put some thought into what you're doing. So I want
to back into your story a little bit. I know
that you grew up with kind of a crazy background.
You I'll let you tell it a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
I hate those podcast where people like, God, tell me
your story, but you grew up. Let me make sure
I'm correct. There in an orphan and then like in
foster homes and all sorts of different things.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
Yeah, I mean I was mostly raised by single mother.
She was immigrant from Mexico, but both her and my
father struggled a lot with addiction, so they divorced when
I was pretty when I was like one, and from
there my mom definitely.

Speaker 4 (02:17):
Like did her best.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
But I mean we were raised in like extreme poverty.
There were times where I was in foster care.

Speaker 4 (02:24):
There was a lot of times.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
Where we were just displaced and moving around and dealt
with a lot of food insecurity and homelessness.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
And so you dealt with a lot of the social
issues that we see today that are kind of popular that,
whether it's you know, immigration, yeah, basically being able to
So you were one of those kids that was born
here and so because of that you have citizenship. But
did your mom come over here to have the baby
or was she already over here?

Speaker 3 (02:51):
My mom immigranted when she was ten, so there her
family did to her mom and dad to you know,
try to have a better life. But she had been
in America for a long time and came to Montana.

Speaker 4 (03:02):
Of all places.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
So I grew up in a super small town Montana,
like five thousand population town. And but yeah, I was
in the like trailer parks in Montana and not having
a home when it's cold in winter in Montana is
no joke.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
Do you remember some of those times, like when you're
literally like trying to figure out how to stay warm?

Speaker 3 (03:21):
Yeah, because I also there was times where like I
slept in my pickup just because you know, when you
have parents who are addicts, it's really unstable at home.
And I experienced a lot of violence in the house.
So there were times where maybe we had a home,
but I'm like, I cannot be there. So during those times,
I was sleeping in my pickup when I was in
high school because it wasn't safe for me to be home.

(03:41):
And I was so embarrassed though about the situation. I
just didn't understand. I didn't understand that it wasn't my fault,
so I didn't tell people about it. So even when
I The Trust came out, which was the Netflix show
I did, I shared a lot more of my story
there that people who weren't close to me were like, wait,
what this is the first time we heard about it,

(04:02):
to the point where a lot of the Internet was like,
she's lying about that, Like that is not how she
always showed up to school like she was on the
dance team. I was a good student because I didn't
want people to know.

Speaker 4 (04:13):
But how I was cast for that.

Speaker 3 (04:14):
For the trust, they got people that had very unique
stories with money and so my story obviously like I
came from nothing, but I was very hyper focused and
I'm like, I'm going to get out. I'm going to
get out. I have to get out, and I at eighteen,
I drove up to the nearest college town. I was like,
I want to go to school, and I put myself
through school. I graduate highest honors. Then I went on
to get my master's.

Speaker 4 (04:34):
Degree in psychology.

Speaker 3 (04:36):
All through that I was like, I have such a
passion for psychology, for understanding why did the people who
raise me do what they did to me. But also
I'm like, I have to get out, I have to
crack the code.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
Well that's I feel like most successful people when they
get into those kinds of fields.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
Tony Robbins, you know talks.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
About like an extreme desire to learn about psychology was
just to figure out why he kind of had a
similar situation, right, Why it's just my story. Why did
my mom act this way? Why did my dad leave?
And it's funny with the money thing. I remember when
I was a little kid sitting at the bottom of
the stairs and listening to my parents.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
They were always fighting over money.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
Like every fight I saw at money, and so I
remember sitting there and it just like I would just
sit at the bottom of the stairs listening.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
To him fight.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
And I remember as a little little kid thinking like, Okay,
one day I'm going to have money and then I
won't have to have a family that fights.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
And so that was my driving force.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
I'm sure to put myself in a position to have
money as an adult.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
But it is.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
Interesting how those things drive us, right, like you got
into psychology, and it's kind of the gift that we
get where a lot of times the thing that causes
us the most pain, we probably wouldn't even have it
any different. And that's kind of the gift in the
moment of being able to be at peace with whatever's
happening to us where we go. I know, I don't
like this right now, but this is going to be
the thing that causes me the growth that I need

(05:53):
to become whoever I'm trying to after this and your.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
Story reminds me a little bit the high school thing.
It's funny.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
When I was in high school, one of the most
impactful things that ever happened to us is we had
a class. It's called like adult Roles or something like.
That's probably the made up class. But the teacher had
us all getting a circle one time and we all
had to write down.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
An issue that we were dealing with.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
It was going to be anonymous, and it was like, look,
I want you to just the worst thing going on
in your life right now.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
I want you to put it on the paper, and
we all put it in.

Speaker 2 (06:21):
I remember my parents and not not very many people knew,
but my parents. We just found out my dad was
cheating up my mom and like Mormon family.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
This was you know, traumatic, and that was like a
couple months before.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
So I put mine in, thinking, oh, I've got the
worst one of anybody. There was like a girl getting
abused by your dad, there was a girl being raped.
There was like it was crazy. By the time we're
all by the time she read them, all, Wow, the
whole class is just crying, and we all just realized,
oh my gosh, the humanity here, like we don't know.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
What people are going through.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
Just because you're showing up to school a certain way
doesn't mean that, like you're not dealing with a ton
and it just it was like from that day forward,
I'm like, man, you really never know what people are
dealing with.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
To just be kind.

Speaker 3 (06:59):
There was like and friends I had in high school too,
and you know, I feel like we found each other
and we didn't know it at the time, like that
we were dealing with it, but we had some similar patterns.

Speaker 4 (07:09):
Now I can see.

Speaker 3 (07:09):
I'm like how obvious it was that they were going
through abuse at home.

Speaker 4 (07:13):
I was going through abuse at home.

Speaker 3 (07:15):
But all we knew is like, for some reason, we're
sixteen and out partying until like three am, and we
don't want to go home ever, and we're like being
bad kids as the school would have labeled us. But
then like becoming adults, like I have one girlfriend who
I'm still friends with from high school and we've grown
up kind of together and become adults and become aware

(07:36):
of our trauma and stuff, and sharing those stories, I
was like, wow, like we really found each other before
we even knew what was going on. But we just
saw like our patterns and our horrible coping mechanisms that
we had at sixteen because we didn't know any better
so to come and be adults.

Speaker 4 (07:52):
It's like, yeah, we really didn't even know.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
Yeah, I mean growing up.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
I grew up, you know, in a very sheltered household,
and it was just drinking with bads.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
Sex was bad, like all these things.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
And I remember I was I was horribly judgmental when
I was younger, I mean really bad. And then you
get older and you start to connect more with some
of those people and thank god, they like were more
forgiving to me than you know.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
Then I get grace to them in high.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
School, but you start hearing their stories and it's like, oh,
they were dealing with some real shit, like and all
of a sudden, you're just like, wow, we for us
to put judgment on anybody, Like it's I remember, you know,
for example, one thing that you would know the psychology,
that's better. But a lot of times when women become
super promiscuous.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
Like on the outside of being a whore.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
But like most any time they're dealing with some kind
of abuse or trauma, then they're trying to minimize the
act of sex so that they can live with like
the experience that happened to them. And all of a sudden,
when you get that, you're like, oh, I can just
be kind to her. I don't have to look down
upon the way she's treating.

Speaker 3 (08:48):
You know, I think about so many girls they went
high school with, and now I look back, I'm like,
you were probably being sexually abused or you like, there
is some trauma that was there.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yeah, well, so how did you decide to take the
angle of Okay, I'm going to get into this whole
thing with celebrities. I mean, you've done stories now and
you picked the biggest ones, which I love because for
social media, you're smart, you're going to get the most
eyeballs on it. But you you know, talk about Beyonce
or the Kardashians or Justin Bieber some of these people,
and you kind of break down, maybe go into a
little bit of how you like your formula for how

(09:20):
you do this and the kind of let people know
where they can find your channels because it's it's pretty
pretty good stuff.

Speaker 3 (09:25):
Yeah, it actually started before I was doing it for
social media. When I was in college, I taught classes
to high schoolers on healthy relationships and I made a
program for them and we called it Love and Lockers,
and it was to teach them about healthy relationships. But
one of the challenges is, like, how do you get
high schoolers to pay attention to these concepts of abuse

(09:48):
and red flags and what to look for and what
does a healthy relationship look for without just like preaching
to them because they get preached to all of the time.

Speaker 4 (09:56):
And one of the ways, you know, we came up with.

Speaker 3 (09:59):
That was, Okay, well, they're high schoolers, are interested in
pop culture, they're interested in the Kardashians, they're interested in
what we're doing. So it started off just using celebrities
as examples to teach what a healthy relationship looked like
and what mostly does, yeah, what an unhealthy relationship looks like,
which was crazy because like we had to ask these kids,
were like, you know, what are your couple goals? And
so many people were like Kim and Kanye and like

(10:21):
the most abusive relationships, And I'm like, wow, they really
don't see it. And then I would take songs, songs
too that they everyone listens to, everyone's like dancing to,
and be like this, this is a trauma bond. This
is abuse, this is codependency. This is what these concepts,
this is not to be romanticized, which is what we
take in pop culture and in movies the most like

(10:43):
horrific thing. And I would take you know, fictional examples too.
And you see these kids like romanticize such toxic relationships.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
Well, I see how the Hollywood does it.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
As I coach men and I try to teach you know,
healthy masculinity and show men how to step up and
be providers and protectors and just essentially have their house
in order. And every single movie it seems like the
Hollywood puts out or whatever. It's the opposite. The dad's
always an idiot, he's always like the goofball. They can't
be taken serious. I can't think of a single show

(11:13):
where the parents are currently so incompetent.

Speaker 3 (11:17):
And yeah, there's not a lot of good examples like
MGK and Megan Fox are one that people really romanticize
and like this is abuse, this is a trauma bond.
And so I just started that with high schoolers then
when I got out of college and I had my
master's degree, I was working as a behavioral specialist. I
worked as a researcher, done all of that, but I

(11:39):
pretty much just got on to this when TikTok started,
and I was just so interested in analyzing these examples
because I realized that sometimes it's easier for people to
see themselves in that because people don't. It's uncomfortable for
people to look at themselves and fully be like, oh, wow,
my relationship is unhealthy.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
Well it's even with your buddies. It's easier to be like, dude,
like this is clearly. You know.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
It's funny because I again, I coach man, and I
think I actually have a really good relationship advice.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
But then you know, I look at my relationship and
you're like, damn.

Speaker 4 (12:07):
Yeah, we all do that.

Speaker 3 (12:09):
It's so easy to like judge even your friends and
be like, wow, their relationship is horrible or what they're
doing is horrible. They keep ending up in toxic cycles,
and that's horrible, and we don't love looking at ourselves.
So I realized that that these videos and taking a
pop culture example, it's a way that helps people look
at themselves for me, it became a smart ideas when

(12:30):
I started putting on TikTok, I saw how viral it
could become because people were already looking at pop culture,
which is so interesting. Is one of the first hate
comments that like people would really get me on there.

Speaker 4 (12:40):
Like why do you care? Why are you obsessed with this?
And I was like, I don't even watch reality TV.

Speaker 3 (12:44):
Now I do, more so because I break it down
for people and it's now it's my thing.

Speaker 4 (12:49):
But before that, I was like, I don't watch it.

Speaker 3 (12:51):
I'm like, you care about it, I care about I
care about psychology. I care about teaching these lessons because
I didn't have that, and if I would have had
those interesting to learn, then maybe I wouldn't have ended
up in some of the situations I was in.

Speaker 4 (13:04):
So I thought it was a really cool way to
do it.

Speaker 3 (13:06):
But it was also a great way to go viral
and to be in front of people's eyes. And when
people are searching for something, I'm like, I don't care
how this information gets to you, but you're meant to
have it now.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
It's it can be a little bit uncomfortable when you
first start putting that kind of stuff out there because
you start having these people have real fans, you know,
and thank god people talking bad about them.

Speaker 1 (13:28):
I'm sure you've had to deal with a ton of that.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
But I think when I start putting stuff out on
the internet, and so, for example, you said something like,
you're like, I don't want to care about this. That's
how I feel right now with a lot of the
political issues, Like I don't give a shit about is
I don't give a shit about Jews. But when all
of our politicians seem to be bought off and they
seem to be all hiding the Epstein files to protect
this particular group, You're like.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
What is going on?

Speaker 2 (13:53):
It's like, I don't want to talk about these wars,
but our money for taxpayers is going over there and
it's affecting every area of our lives.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
And so it's funny. People are like, dude, why are
you always talking about Israel?

Speaker 2 (14:02):
And I'm like, because we have to, because it's like
this is the thing we also we ought.

Speaker 3 (14:06):
To care also, right, we ought to care about humanity.

Speaker 2 (14:11):
Yeah, And that's that's the shitty part, is like as
humans too, we were never supposed to have this many
things to care about. We're never supposed to the younger generation.
You guys, you know you the gen z get hits
with everything, like so many issues one at a time,
and so I think it can feel a little bit overwhelming.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
So how do you decide what story you're doing next?

Speaker 2 (14:32):
Are you trying to like see what's trending and then
kind of see how you can tie that into like
a principle or you mostly just when you see something
and you recognize it, then you run with it.

Speaker 3 (14:41):
Yeah, partially what's trending and partially what I think you
know will be interesting in other people, but also like
what's interesting to me. I love like the darker stories,
Like I'm not super interested when there's some people people
send it to me, I was like, I don't care
about them, Like, so.

Speaker 4 (14:55):
I have to, like I have to have some investment.

Speaker 3 (14:57):
I feel like, you know, if I can see it
in either whate a lot of my because I do coaching,
so either what a lot of my clients are dealing with,
or if I see myself and part of the story
makes it more.

Speaker 4 (15:05):
Interesting to me.

Speaker 3 (15:06):
So it's kind of both on like what do I
want to do, but also what's interesting to other people?

Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yeah. Well, and the content creation thing is so interesting
because more than ever now you really do need to
get creative else you're not going to get noticed.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
There's too much noise. There's so many things out there.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
Everybody's trying to great content, and so you know, again,
like what you've done, it really is a great model.
Like if I was teaching, somebody said, all right, Jimmy,
I want I want to get into the content creation game.
So if you really want to get into it, start
finding like you could do the same thing you do
with pop culture, you could do with sports. Like if
a guy took sports events and use like principles of
that to teach whatever leadership or psychology or it would

(15:43):
work really well. You got to get a little bit
more creative and really put the time and effort.

Speaker 3 (15:47):
Yeah. Yeah, and I had been doing it, Like when
I started, it was when TikTok was very first popping off,
so like I was one of the first to do
like the green screen behind you, and that's how I
like really started. Now my videos look a little different,
I'll like pop a little photo up, not I'm on YouTube.
But then that became like now you have all of
these just pop culture reporters, and that was not a
thing when I first started.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
And so the people that you coach kind of shiftings
a little bit. Do you coach more men or women?
What do you like to coach? What topics is your
favorite to coach people?

Speaker 4 (16:16):
Yeah, mostly women.

Speaker 3 (16:17):
I have coached men before, but I do feel like
women are just more We're conditioned more that it's okay
to ask for help. So I with that said, I've
had some amazing male clients, but almost exclusively women.

Speaker 1 (16:31):
So what are people coming to you for? What's on
people's minds?

Speaker 2 (16:33):
What are the issues of today that like maybe people
don't even recognize.

Speaker 4 (16:36):
So I love that question because it's so interesting.

Speaker 3 (16:39):
People will come to you for what they think they
need help with. And it's the same in sales. It's
like sell them, sell them on what they want, but
give them what they need. So what people think they're
coming to me for a lot is about relationships, Like
that's the bleeding neck problem. Either they have been in
an abusive relationship, they're dealing with nurses stick abuse, they're

(17:01):
going through a breakup, like it's usually some kind of
their feeling loss. But a lot of it is around relationships.
That's what they think they need, And almost always no
matter what my clients are going through, it's like self
love or the lack of self love, self worth issues
a lot of where they learn that from childhood and
from their parents, and it goes so much to also.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
Ties into what you're talking about, this whole celebrity culture.
It's like they see all these toxic patterns of people
that they're looking up to, and so they don't love
themselves and they think those are the patterns, and they're
also comparing themselves to all those people, and so yeah,
it is a little bit harder than I think we recognize.

Speaker 3 (17:39):
Yeah, so yeah, that's usually people come to me for
one thing, but then I mean I have clients that
I've worked with for years and it's like new levels,
new devils.

Speaker 4 (17:47):
They're like, am I ever going to be healed?

Speaker 3 (17:49):
It's like, well, we're working on it, but you heal
one area and then you're.

Speaker 4 (17:53):
Like, oh wait, I have all of this other shit.
So we go really deep.

Speaker 3 (17:57):
Usually the like issue come to me for you see
how it bleeds out into absolutely everything, and it's our
lack of self love, our lack of self worth, the
way that we hate ourselves bleeds into how you choose partners.

Speaker 4 (18:10):
I say, I work a lot with people.

Speaker 3 (18:12):
On psychological addictions, because that's what will end up happening,
is you become psychologically addicted to disappointment, to hating yourself,
to the feeling of not enoughness, and then you create
all these situations and you're like, see, here's the evidence
for why I'm not enough because this person rejected me.
And I'm like, but what you don't understand is that
the very inception you chose that to reinforce those feelings
that you were already feeling because you're addicted to it.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
Yeah, and it's a subconscious thing that we our brains
are looking for familiar patterns. They're not looking for what
makes us happy. And so unfortunately, if that's one of
your unconscious beliefs, you're going to find proof for that,
and you're going to even not only just find proof.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
Of it, you're going to create it.

Speaker 4 (18:50):
Exactly.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
I see this all the time self sabotage guys.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
For guys, there's two things that'll kind of usually the
pain point is one of two things. It's either relationships
or it's money. Right for guys, like, uh, they they
want to change their financial situation or they want to
change their relationship situation. And then the other one, you know,
is like I want to just have a group of
guys to like do life with or whatever some bodies.
But it's interesting because most people I always say, I

(19:16):
say we have the exact amount of money, and I
would probably say love in our life that we subconsciously
believe that we deserve. Wow, every single person has the
exact amount of money they subconsciously believe they deserve.

Speaker 1 (19:27):
Because you will find ways to self sabogate.

Speaker 3 (19:32):
Over and over. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
Yeah, so if you believe you're not worthy of you know,
one of the thing. It's funny you talk about layers
to the game. It's like I worked on you know,
like what you know, Uh, it's really hard to fix
the wound of like my childhood leaving the religion I
was born into. And then it was like my father
would and I really got peaced around those things.

Speaker 1 (19:49):
And it was funny.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
I always thought I had this like great relationship with
my mom. I was like, well, I don't any problems
on that, and then all of a sudden, the guy
asked me one question. I'm like, oh shit, Like maybe
there was some nurturing there that wasn't by the way,
every parent God bless her like seven kids, Like it's funny.
We talked about the mother woind in our last event,
and after hearing the other winds, I'm like, oh, I'll
take mine all day, like my mom is busy.

Speaker 3 (20:11):
You know, and so but that's not how the child
processes said, which is so important because we don't understand
like mom's busy.

Speaker 4 (20:17):
We don't understand. We just think I'm not I'm not
getting in the way that I And that's important for
people to understand that.

Speaker 3 (20:23):
I've had so many clients like, oh, no, I didn't
have childhood trauma, because they expect that trauma has to
be a sexual assault or something huge. But in all
those little ways that your parent couldn't attune to your needs.
And that can happen even the most religious parents, especially
because they're taught don't process emotions and shove emotions down,
and so then they never care not to be okay, yeah,
they never attuned to their child, and that child then

(20:44):
grows up so they're like, oh, I grew up in
a safe Mormon no alcohol, no yelling home, but they're
walking around with all of these wounds.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
And that was the exact one that I opened up.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
It was like, oh shit, like, I actually do have
some major things here. I got to look at I
don't trust the feminine because the first person that was
supposed to like give me that again, like you said,
whether it's like from an outsider's view, it was enough
or not. As an kid, if that's how you processed it,
that's what you get to ben deal with, right, And
so it's kind of fun.

Speaker 1 (21:15):
As you undo different layers, you're like.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
Oh, okay, and so that's the one that yeah, for
the last year and a half that I've been diving
into and we've been really studying it a lot and stuff,
and it is fun to do those things and to
be able to just learn about yourself, not to make
it right or wrong, because I think one of the
things you talked about is people that fight for their
stories get to keep them.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
That victim mentality is the worst thing you can do.
So it's like that it's.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
Okay to have an awareness of why this is the
case without being a victim to it. Right, It's like,
oh cool, Okay, I now get to look at that
and decide.

Speaker 3 (21:45):
What I want to do exactly and separate it from
the stories, like the story is what keeps you sick,
like the event happened, and that's actually people don't really
understand that about trauma.

Speaker 4 (21:53):
Trauma is not just the event that happened.

Speaker 3 (21:55):
It is also the story that you attached to the event,
and that's where your emotions stay, and that's where you
can't process or move through those emotions because of the
story you continuously tell yourself.

Speaker 4 (22:04):
And that's a huge part of.

Speaker 3 (22:05):
Healing that a lot of people don't talk about a
lot of psychologists don't talk about.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah, how we look at our own situation is to
me more important than the situation. So it's like how
we react to it.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
And it's funny because most people think, Okay, I had
this thing happen, so I have It's almost like almost
gives them an excuse to not have to work harder
on themselves.

Speaker 3 (22:27):
In other ways, there are benefits to being a victim, right,
and people milk those benefits.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
We saw it during COVID people are like, oh, I
can't do anything. There was like eighty percent of the
population was like, Okay, this is my excuse to not
have to worry about anything, and then there's twenty percent
that triple down to make things.

Speaker 3 (22:40):
Sometimes I think people who I'm like, and what would
you do if you didn't have your victims story? Because
it sounds like you kind of like it. Yeah, and
I've seen those people. I'm like, yeah, you've gone through
horrific things. But it's like you also like, what would
your excuse me.

Speaker 4 (22:53):
If you didn't?

Speaker 1 (22:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
I like to ask a question similar but a little
bit different, where I say, let's assume that wasn't true.

Speaker 1 (22:59):
What else could be true? Like? How else could that
story be told?

Speaker 3 (23:02):
You know?

Speaker 2 (23:02):
It's so true though, if you don't have that story,
it's like all of a sudden, it's like, well, maybe
I just am being lazier.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
Maybe I'm just you know, being a right.

Speaker 4 (23:10):
It is true.

Speaker 3 (23:10):
It's like people have, like there are situations and like
I've been a victim, like people, there are things that
people go through. They're a victim. But what do you want?
What do you want to become after that?

Speaker 2 (23:19):
There's a really good scene in Tony Robbins I want
to have as events. I think it's in his movie
I'm Not Your Guru. He says, you are a victim
and that story doesn't serve you. So it's like both
things can be true. You are a victim and that
story doesn't serve you. So how much longer do you
want to stay there?

Speaker 1 (23:33):
You know? But well, we were going to talk about
some men's issues and some different things like how old
are you? By the way?

Speaker 4 (23:38):
Thirty one?

Speaker 1 (23:39):
Thirty one?

Speaker 2 (23:39):
Okay, so you're right in the middle of the dating scene.
You just moved to Utah, just diving into different things.
You were on a TV show where you were dating
the guy on the show.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
Did that work out? By the way, the guy you
met on.

Speaker 4 (23:50):
The show never works out?

Speaker 1 (23:52):
Not very often.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
I interviewed early on what was their names? I remember
Ari from The Bachelor forever ago? He what was her name? Anyway,
they're still married? I had around my podcast like episode
thirty forever ago. Yeah, they just won The Bachelor. They're
still together though, so like ten years later us eight
years later.

Speaker 1 (24:10):
I know what dating in twenty twenty five, it's just different.
I just saw a stat the other day.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
Professor g was doing a podcast and Chris Williamson I've
been on his show. He talks about this quite a bit,
but twenty five percent of males eighteen to twenty five
have never even approached a girl in person a crazy
stat Like, we have so many things that have changed
from the dating world from like even when I was
in my.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
Twenties, yeah, to today.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
But what is the positives of the dating scene today
and what are the things that make it more difficult.

Speaker 3 (24:43):
That's a really good question, And actually I wanted to
ask you when you were saying, like, you know, men
come to you with like that they want to fix
their relationship, because I think that something that is rampant
is both genders have been really hurt by each other, and.

Speaker 4 (24:59):
I I see I feel.

Speaker 3 (25:01):
The anger to like I have to consciously work on
not fully becoming like someone who hates men because I'm like,
have been abused and hurts so much by men. But
I also see the way that men are so angry
at women, and in some ways I see so I'm
really curious to hear your perspective because the male loneliness epidemic.

Speaker 4 (25:23):
It's horrible.

Speaker 3 (25:24):
I mean, men are killing themselves and they've been out
here killing themselves, and they're using alcohol to non they're
using porn to numb. I think men are so lost
right now. But I also I see more of a
strength in women women are choosing more now than ever
to be consciously single because we are tired of doing

(25:44):
the emotional labor of teaching men how to be good men.
And there is this male loneliness epidemic, and I think
it's horrible. I think men are going to continuously commit
suicide or become criminals or manifest their pain into externalize it,
and they're going to create more victims. And at the
same time, like, and who set that system up that

(26:05):
you are so lonely? Because you guys created a system
where you couldn't it wasn't safe to talk about emotions
and instead it was like, let's turn to alcohol. Men
have the highest rates of high rates of addiction, high
rates of incarceration, higher rates of suicide, every single thing
for a system that you set up that is the patriarchy.
And it's like you're seeing how how horrible that is.

(26:27):
In some ways, I see women being like, we're actually
not We're not going to do that anymore. And then
I see the chip on the shoulder that men have
of like kind of like how how daring.

Speaker 4 (26:37):
Not like accept me for me?

Speaker 3 (26:39):
And we're like we can't do it anymore, Like we've
been so abused and her and we've become like your victims.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
Well I could kind of dive into a couple of
thoughts on Matt. So one is I think, you know,
speaking of the system that was, here's what I think
a little bit of what happened. It's a combination of things.
But I think we had so.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
Many generations in a row that were of men that
had to be hard. They were going to war there,
you know, World War one, World War two, Vietnam, Korea,
one after another. And they come back from those wars
and that was like, you know, the generation just above
our parents or maybe our parents' parents, and they were harsh,
like they were watching people that I mean millions and
millions of people dying in those wars literally, And so

(27:19):
you come back from that, you know, I had an
uncle come back from Vietnam and it was like stay
away from it, like they.

Speaker 4 (27:23):
Yeah, been with my grandpa's Vietnam.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
Sure, So a lot of our parents or your parents
or whatever people are you know that like the gen
Z's parents or like my siblings and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
It's like, okay, well I don't want to be like
my parents. I don't want to roll with an iron fist.

Speaker 2 (27:35):
I don't want to be abusive, like literally physically and
other things. So there became like almost more of a
softness where it was, you know, and they kind of
overcorrected a little bit, and then you have a combination
of you know, it is tricky. The family dynamics started
getting thrown off a little bit. It's in some ways good,
in some ways bad. But less moms were staying home

(27:57):
with the kids, that is a problem. Less dads were
in the house, that's a problem. So you have a
lot of dads leaving, a lot of dad's not in
the home. So the mom's raising them and she has
to be in her masculine and so they're getting a
bad view of what it looks like to be in
healthy masculine you know energy. So that is all going on,
and then you have the stack on top of it.

(28:17):
And so what used to happen though, is you were
raised by the community.

Speaker 1 (28:20):
You were raised.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
Yeah, you had buddies, right Like when I was in
high school I graduated in two thousand and every Sunday
we would get together and play board games together, me
and my buddies, eight of us like dudes, and all
we did is made fun of each other, like rubbed
each other in the sense of like just making fun
of each other. You know, you rough house, you fight
like in a healthy way. You you talk shit, you

(28:42):
love each other. You just everything was just it was
a really beautiful way to connect to a group of buddies.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
And then in that when Nick's mom and dad.

Speaker 2 (28:51):
Got divorced, we were all there and just were able
to like kind of be in that with him. Right
when Ben's mom died, we were all just there and
we got to just be in that with him. So
what's happened, I think is because everything kind of went
online and then social meeting and all these other things.
It's a combination of like kids not seeing healthy masculine
in the house, an overcorrection like not enough honestly families

(29:11):
staying together with a mom and a dad in the house.
And so you got these boys that don't have buddies
to show them what it looks like to be but
you don't because back in the day, if your parents
weren't doing it, your buddies were, so you could go
to your buddy's house and like, oh, that's what it
looks like to have a healthy male figure in the house,
or you know, it was your neighbors even or like
you were raised by your uncles and your grandparents sometimes

(29:32):
and that all kind of went away. And then social
media kind of unfortunately has been making it harder than
ever for men to find places to connect. And so
there's this isolation, and in that isolation, they try to
find comfort in other things that make them feel significant
or connected. And so, like you said, porn, video games,
these are things is where they feel connected. And again

(29:52):
Tony Robbins, he has this beautiful quote. He says, most
for most people, because it's a human need, either love
or connection. He says, for most people, love's too scary,
so they'll settle for connection. And so you can find
that in all those things. Then what happens is they
try to put themselves out there and you know, they
don't know how to do it, and they're not good
at taking rejection. Like when I grew up where you
just get rejected all day. Like my parents told me

(30:14):
to go if I wanted money, I had to go
find it. I'd go sell something. I had to go
figure it out. And we've tried to remove rejection, even
the apps, the reason why they're so popular in dating
is because they remove rejection.

Speaker 3 (30:24):
Yeah, and what I'm hoping happens with that because they're like,
we are getting to some type of tipping point and
I don't know if it will be positive native, but
like everything you're describing it, like in the same way
we talk about not being a victim, it's like, okay,
then you ought to learn, and you ought to learn
how to be a good man. And I do I
have empathy for mikes. They don't think they have a
lot of positive leaders. I don't think there are examples

(30:46):
for a healthy masculinity, Like there's toxic masculinity out there.

Speaker 4 (30:49):
There's not healthy. I don't think they know how to
be men.

Speaker 3 (30:52):
And I'll sit from a women's perspective, and working with
so many women, we are retired because we feel like
we've had to become the men.

Speaker 4 (30:59):
And that's why so.

Speaker 3 (30:59):
Many men have they're in their wounded feminine or they're
almost in their wounded masculine too, because we're like, okay,
well I had to step up and be a good
leader because you suck at it and you don't know how.
And that's became women's only point for connection. It's like,
let me stay in this codependency, let me stay in
this abuse to have some type of it. And now
I've see so many and we're like, actually no, but

(31:19):
we actually have each other.

Speaker 4 (31:21):
We have women and.

Speaker 1 (31:22):
We are Yeah. Women naturally are going to connect through talking.

Speaker 3 (31:25):
And and we know it's okay, like it's okay not
to be okay, and we've we're way further.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
That's what I mean my life.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
I see these guys and they come and I've coached
now in just in my leadership program, which I get
to know all of them very well, one on one,
over three hundred and fifty men in the last four years.
And so I've seen all these guys come through and
they're great men. They are such good guys. They want
so badly to show up for the women in their lives.
And like you said, it's this there's an entire generation

(31:52):
of women that are tired. Like you said, a lot
of them unfortunately did have to take on both the roles, right, Like,
no woman can be in her play for feminine energy
if she's got to play mom instead of wife, you know,
And so unfortunately a lot of the times their husbands.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
So the first thing I teach the guys. The first
thing when they come to the program.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
So, guys, is you have to get your house in order,
get your shit together you physically, financially, and emotionally or
you're that's the first thing you need to do because
if you do that, then every other relationship in your
life is going to be benefited from it. Your wife
can settle and you can start feeling safe. You start
feeling secure again in the relationship without you know, she
can trust you. Yeah, because men want to be trusted,

(32:29):
but there haven't been trusted.

Speaker 4 (32:31):
Yeah, you have to be trusted. Fortunately, you want to
lead so bad and you have to be.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
A good leader and they and that's the whole You want.

Speaker 4 (32:38):
To be a provide or provide.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
Yes, And you know it's hard for the women because
they're so frustrated, but also the men need the women
to be that support. They still do. And so I
think we're in a situation where the world's gotten big enough.
We're in the past. You kind of just did support
because you're like, there's nowhere else to go. Nowadays, though
there's plenty of options. Women can make just as much
money as the matter more. They can go find other

(33:01):
men really fast.

Speaker 4 (33:02):
I felt that way.

Speaker 3 (33:03):
I'm like you have a learning curve, go learn it
somewhere else.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
Of course. I mean, I you know, because of my
own mother wound and things.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
For me, I've attracted a lot of relationships where I
was trying to be the hero, you know, where I
was trying to help the person that was maybe dealing
with a lot of things and not looking at my
own things, like it's a very nice and convenient to
be like let.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
Me look at yours, look at mine, you know, and so.

Speaker 2 (33:32):
But you know, and this is what I think, I mean,
the hardest part. I mean, it's gonna get worse because
AI is coming and the sex bots and everything else.
I mean it's real, like it's yeah, and people are
gonna settle for connection, yeah, as opposed to trying to
figure that.

Speaker 3 (33:44):
And so I don't know the heroin epidemic though, It's
like if you're going to choose that over over a
good life, then like by all means, and then you're
not lonely enough.

Speaker 4 (33:54):
But it's so excaddy because the choices are in front
of them.

Speaker 3 (33:58):
And I remember, like even and sharing my story and
coming out of where I came from. I remember there
was a point where I was sleeping on my pickup
and being like okay, like you have to get out,
like you have to.

Speaker 4 (34:08):
Make it through. And I was like I can't. Like
it's going to be hard. And I was like, this
shit's hard too, This shit's.

Speaker 3 (34:13):
Going to be hard to it when you wake up,
choose your heart, when you wake up twenty years later
and you were in the same town and you haven't left,
And I think that it's like to become a good man.
It's going to be hard. But what hard to want?

Speaker 1 (34:24):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (34:24):
And I tell people it's like it's like people, you know,
they say, how do you well? I'll give you an example.
When the real estate market collapsed. I mean it was brutal,
like so difficult, and I was my investments were in
real estate. I was owner of our brokerage and my
income was real estate. I mean, it was brutal. And
people asked me, They're like, how did you get through that?
And my answer is kind of simple, But I just said,
I don't know. I didn't want to be a loser,

(34:45):
Like I just wanted to have a good life.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
You know, do you have to have that?

Speaker 3 (34:50):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (34:50):
You have to just go every day, you got to
wake up and go. Don't be a freaking loser today.

Speaker 4 (34:54):
You ought to not want to be a loser.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
Do your shit like there's things to do. And when
you're easy on life, it's hard on you. When you're
hard on life, it's easy on you. And like you know,
I always, you know, say like, look, I get to
have the life I do today because what I did
fifteen twenty years ago, like in your twenties. Is a guy,
you have a choice. Either you choose the hard and
you could build a really cool life. You can figure
a lot of things out. You can overcome a lot

(35:16):
of obstacles or even mistakes if you're working hard. But
if you're not working hard, every mistake feels like it's
the end of you.

Speaker 3 (35:24):
Why do you think so many men are choosing to
be losers?

Speaker 1 (35:28):
I think no.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
I can tell exactly why it's easy to get to
be a loser like it used to actually not be.
If you were a loser in the past, you didn't
have access to naked women, you didn't have access to sex,
you didn't have access to food, you didn't have access
to entertainment. Today you can sit on your couch, get
dopamine after dopeing hit between your potato chips, your Netflix
and your porn and never have to like you.

Speaker 4 (35:51):
Think, yeah, synthetic.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
You have things happening that are like your dopamine hits
are still spiking, right, And I think that's why there's.

Speaker 3 (35:57):
Going to be a winners for the video games. You
got to have a yeah, a woman's connection through port.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
Yes, and it's like you can pretend like your life's
not really shitty. And the scary part of that is,
you know, the hedonic treadmill gets worse and worse. You
need more and more and more of it, until all
of a sudden you're like it takes either crashing out
to actually make a change or you just kind of
stand this.

Speaker 1 (36:18):
But but I think that's why there's so many losers.
It's just really easy to be a loser today.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
I agree you have to you have to consciously wake
up and be like, I want to do something great
with my life. And by the way, having tried everything
you can do to create like happiness outside of fulfillment,
I can testify that, like, the only real fulfillment comes
through something that has purpose. Like if you don't wake

(36:44):
up with a purpose, it is so hard to get
out a bit excited for that day you can.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
Be working on if you're not working, if you're working.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
On something, There's one thing I teach you guys, like,
if you're working your ass off on something and you
don't enjoy it, or you don't have any passion behind
it or any purpose, then it all it feels like
is stress. But if you love what you're doing, if
you have a purpose behind it, it's just passion. It's
like easy to do that. You literally get energy from
being excited about what you're doing. So we have to
be real with ourselves and just be like, do I
enjoy what I'm doing? Am I actually getting enough out

(37:11):
of this to you know, worth getting up and being
excited about?

Speaker 4 (37:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (37:15):
So for men and women, I don't know what the
answer to that question is. For women, I think the
temptation is to kind of like what you're alluding to,
be like, well, I don't need guys, but you know,
women if they have to, you know, unfortunately take on
those roles. They're not in their natural state and they're
not as happy, and.

Speaker 3 (37:34):
We do want like but it's that we're like we
want a good man now, and we're kind of I actually,
I hope when you don't.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
Find a good man. You've said that a few times. Yeah,
I mean, what's a good man?

Speaker 3 (37:47):
Well, you should have all the qualities, like you need
to be strong but emotionally open and kind and to
be able to lead in safety and groundedness and be
able to be grounded and to be open. But I
think also just someone who is is striving to be better,
who can be a listener.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
So let me ask you.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
So a good man shows up and he's let's say,
he got his shit together financially, he's in good shape,
he takes care of his body, all these different things.
I don't think the offer is as good to men
as it used to be for what he wants in return.
And there's a lot of podcasters have been talking about this,
but like the offer is not as good from the
women's side, Like, you know, women they don't need men

(38:30):
as much, so they don't show them as much respect,
which is what every guy wants even more than that.

Speaker 3 (38:34):
Yeah, and it is hard, Like I feel that I've
felt that way before, where I'm like, oh, I don't
respect you because I feel as though I'm a better
man than you are because of how much further ahead.

Speaker 4 (38:47):
So I do feel like for me to date.

Speaker 3 (38:49):
Someone, I'm like, I need someone who is further ahead
and not just and that's like hard, especially not just financially, yes,
that is one aspect, but emotionally and because men have
been so behind historically, that's like it's really hard and
it's hard for me to find.

Speaker 4 (39:04):
Respect in that. Yeah, and it's going to require that
and I know that.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
Sure well, and that's where it's going to be. You
know a lot of Again, I think I think.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
There's been an attack, and I know this is a
This is my probably most conservative view that I have.
I have plenty that are you know, it's funny I
drive both sides and nuts because they never know what.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
To make of what I'm going to say next. But
this is probably my most conservative view.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
Is I just believe in the nuclear family, like, which
is ironic coming from a forty.

Speaker 4 (39:30):
Four grab that's never been I do as well.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
But that's the we got to get back to that
because the whole idea like again, more and more women
going into the world. I'll give you an example as
a guy, like I don't want to date some woman
that wants to be heavy into her career unless it's
her business or her passion because normally ninety five percent
of the time they're doing it out of necessity, not
out of passion.

Speaker 4 (39:49):
Yeah, we don't want to do that either, Armart right, No.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
And I've had I've talked to so many women that like,
you'll start dating or whatever, and they're like, Okay, I
actually just want to be a mom and a wife.
But the thing is is like I don't want some
guye Barker orders at my wife all day and then
she has to come home, you know what I mean.
That's why I work hard so I don't have to
deal with that.

Speaker 4 (40:04):
Yeah, and we would love that, but men have to.

Speaker 3 (40:06):
I'm like, you have to create it so that I
can also trust you enough to provide and that you're
not going to be abusive with that and controlling with that.

Speaker 1 (40:13):
Yeah. And that's where again, and it's like what And
I think again.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
This goes back to the whole thing with celebrities and
social media. I think a lot of women's views have
been skewed more than men's on what is valuable in
today's society, Like what does a guy bring this value?
Because again, I mean, if you're an attractive woman, you
can strip down naked or start OnlyFans and probably make
some pretty decent money. You don't need the guy. So

(40:38):
all of a sudden, what the guy has to provide.
From what I've been gathering from just listening to other people,
is like they're frustrated because they feel like there's a
couple guys and most of my buddies do really well financially,
but there's a few that don't.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
And it I had this eye opening moment about six
months ago.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
They said, it's actually really hard, like when we all
go out or whatever, because like, you guys have money
and we don't, like if everything's kind of tricky and
they feel it. They feel that insecurity, they feel that.
And these are guys that make up six figures. So
it's like in the past that guy didn't need to
feel insecure about his money.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
But you're competing, you know.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
Think about a guy in whatever I don't know, like
Montana is a good example. In the past, if he
made one hundred and fifty thousand, he's whatever, logging or
he's owns a mechanic shop or whatever, he's feeling pretty
good about himself.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
In the two thousands, all of a sudden, he's competing.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
If he's got some beautiful woman in his life with
dudes hitting her up from all over the world that
are multi millionaires and even billionaires sometimes, so he's just a.

Speaker 4 (41:32):
Different he he wants like the top of the top beauty. Yeah,
like the top of the top.

Speaker 3 (41:36):
Beauty is going to go for the man with the
most resources.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
So it's like that's for women.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
Too, are so hypergamas in this, Like isn't it enough
if he's just loving you and taking care of you?

Speaker 1 (41:47):
But they but they want the most resources. It's not
enough anymore.

Speaker 3 (41:51):
Whereas it enough that she's just a good, nurturing, loving woman.
But he also is like wanting the like ten out
of ten baddie.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
And nobody's saying in the past that he was doing enough.
He was working hard.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
He make enough money to have a good life and
do vacations and have a nice little house. Now part
of the problem, too, is the way the financial systems
sit up these younger guys, like you can't just get
a house and a nice life like you could in
the past. But see that's the thing though, that that
hypergamy from women of like, well I can get more,
so I want more.

Speaker 3 (42:21):
But I would say those women who are like the
most hypergamists.

Speaker 4 (42:24):
It's because they have the beauty that's like their.

Speaker 3 (42:26):
Currency, right, and then it shouldn't those men like can't
they're also rejecting women who.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
May have the only value of either of them is
the money or the looks. I'm saying, like, taking all
the other things that this guy's bringing to the table,
money shouldn't have to play into it.

Speaker 1 (42:42):
If he's doing those other things in the past, that
was enough, and you're saying today I am.

Speaker 4 (42:46):
Saying that it should be enough for what he's dating.

Speaker 3 (42:50):
But if he's talking about, oh, this girl went and
she's you know, with this.

Speaker 4 (42:54):
Like millionaire and everything, then she's probably has the beauty
to be able to do that.

Speaker 3 (43:01):
However, so many women I've dated plenty of rich men,
we're not also set like if you also can't provide emotionally, we're.

Speaker 4 (43:07):
Also leaving those men.

Speaker 3 (43:09):
To right, right, So it is like, ideally we want
someone who can, who can do both and want.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
I'm saying that is one of the dilemmas of men today. Though, Yeah,
that feeling of.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
Feel that I do feel that when they are creating
the physical emotional safety.

Speaker 3 (43:23):
But yeah, I think I think if you get a
man who does that. I think that's very rare because
what I've also seen is I've also dated men who
weren't where they wanted to be financially, but I cared
about them, and they really cared about me, especially in
the beginning.

Speaker 4 (43:38):
And then I saw.

Speaker 3 (43:41):
Their insecurity and like their jealousy, like at me show
up for having my shit together. And that's why that
is the risk I think even more so of dating
a man who's not where he wants to be, is
that he will end up punishing you for him not
being where he wants to be. And it's like I
love you, like like truly, I've done on it. I'm like,
I don't, I love you? And he like he ruined it.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
Yeah, I had a guy come to me. The men
do this.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
I had a guy come to me a couple months
back in my men's group, and I love this guy.
He's one of my favorite guys in the group. He's
the most loving dude ever. But he's probably and he
has some health issues. He's tried everything, and so it's
actually even worse, but like he's probably one of the
most out of shape guys in the group. Out of
three hundred men right, and uh, he's just big guy
and he's literally tried everything. It's like it's a hormonal issue.

(44:28):
The dude barely eats anyway. And I say that because
it's like there's so much empathy here. And he came
to me and he's like, hey, I don't know if
I want to stay in the group. I feel like
you don't want me in the group. And I was like,
what are you talking about. I love you. And he's like,
I just feel like I don't fit the physical of
what you want guys in your group to look like,
and so you don't want me to be a part
of it. And I was like, oh my gosh. And

(44:49):
it like I've never even had the thought. Yeah, it
never even crossed my mind, Like I don't give a
shit what you look like.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
Like I was like, per was such a mirror. So
my point is a lot of guys will project.

Speaker 2 (45:03):
So how you're saying guys will project that financial insecurity,
I felt it, like you know that in that.

Speaker 4 (45:09):
Sense, that is what happens.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
People reject themselves, And that's kind of like the risk
of because I know a lot of female friends and
they've been like it's hey, it's Okay, you're not where
you want to be, Like, I love you, and it's.

Speaker 2 (45:21):
Punish correct me if I'm wrong here. But women don't
care how much money you have. It's do you have
the ability to get that life.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
That we both want? It's like, do you have those skills?
Are you working at it?

Speaker 3 (45:31):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (45:32):
Because women can be They'll be more attractive if a
guy their age, if they're both nineteen, if he has
those traits, as opposed to a guy that's already there,
that's you know, in his forties or something, and so like,
it doesn't necessarily have to be there.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
But these are the problems that are facing the modern dating.

Speaker 2 (45:48):
I mean, it's like, I don't even know if we
have good answers to them, but I think I'm trying
to give perspective, like from a guy's view. And then
you know, I think a big problem too that came
up the last probably eight or nine years is actually
good when it talk about is the whole meat too movement.
Guys are actually afraid they're afraid of getting blasted for
hitting on a girl. They're afraid to kind of approach
a girl in case she's like a lot of like

(46:10):
consequences that didn't used to be there. Like women can
almost like attack you online. They can attack you even
like with me, two types of where it's not inappropriate,
but you there's a level of flirting.

Speaker 3 (46:21):
So it's like we have to be so honest about
those stats. And like I've I worked in sexual assaults
centers and uh in domestic violent shelters, and it's like
the amount of false reporting is the same as any
other crime, which is about one percent.

Speaker 4 (46:34):
And men are like so hyper focused on that.

Speaker 3 (46:35):
They're like, no, we can't even ask you to date
because women are gonna say you we hit them, like, hey,
you have been hitting us. Hey, you have been killing us,
you have been being the shit of us. You have
been raping us. One in four of us you have
been raping us. So yeah, maybe that's the consequence of
us being a little safer, like and in that, I'm
just like, you're not the victim.

Speaker 1 (46:52):
Say that.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
No, I don't think men are a victimbout, But I
do think that it keeps men from approaching women.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
I think it keeps men and women.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
I'm not Yeah, we're scared to go on dates too,
because we don't want to be killed. We don't want
to be abused and that's like, that's so many of
our stories from multiple different men.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
I mean, when I had Chris Williamson on my podcast,
he said, he said, modern men are being punished for
the hierarchy of the past, of the patriarchy and the
past of a lot of these issues that exist. I mean,
and again, you're right, I'm saying, like actual approaching women
and just again every there's a ton of people have
done studies on this, but men are afraid to approach
women because they don't want to be embarrassed. They don't

(47:31):
want the women to blast them on the internet. Like
everything is more permanent now.

Speaker 1 (47:36):
In the past, you go hit on a girl at
a bar and it's like you never see who cares.

Speaker 3 (47:40):
Yeah, it's definitely it's a new roadblock to work through.
I mean, we should be kind to be I try like,
even if I'm in a relationship or just I am
approached by someone I'm not interested in, I do try
to be like, like, thank you for being brave, Like no,
I can'ess have the lame thing to say.

Speaker 1 (47:55):
I try to.

Speaker 4 (47:56):
I'm like, oh, but you should, like you should keep
you should keep doing that.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
Though I'm like that actually, if you got to get
out of your own way, Like if you have an
approach anxiety, you need to go to another city where
you'll never see anyone again and just go approach one
hundred girls in a night and just go talk and
don't try to hit on them, don't try to hook
up with them. Just literally go try to talk to them,
and you can get over it in a week.

Speaker 3 (48:15):
It is scary, but like the risk of love is
scary to fall in love. It is scary to like
put yourself out there and did you die?

Speaker 1 (48:23):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (48:24):
No, And that's we have in the program. If there's
guys that you know, I've had several guys that.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
Have joined that.

Speaker 2 (48:30):
Usually they're younger and they haven't approached a girl in
a long time, and we literally make them when we
go out, like we're like, hey, there you go.

Speaker 4 (48:37):
Anything we use too.

Speaker 3 (48:38):
It's like first focus on being good in yourself, Like
is your health right?

Speaker 4 (48:42):
Are you do you have a job?

Speaker 3 (48:43):
Are you like getting off the couch? Are you doing
those things that would make you want to be a
desirable partner? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (48:48):
Are you interesting? Are you actually? You know, people are
always like I'm like where They're like, where do you
find girls.

Speaker 2 (48:52):
I'm like, go to yoga, go on hikes, go to
the like you know, go join some clubs or something.
And they're like, well, I don't do that stuff. I said, yeah,
that's why i'm girls in your life.

Speaker 4 (49:01):
Because you're boring exactly, we don't want to talk to you.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
Surely be more interesting, you know, that's a whole different thing, truly.
So what's your best advice for uh?

Speaker 2 (49:10):
Just because you know I coach man, I love to
get these answers, what's your best advice for men in
today's modern dating room?

Speaker 4 (49:15):
I mean, be a good man and be brave.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
And what's your best advice for women?

Speaker 3 (49:21):
You have to eventually heal the wounds that you're carrying
around too. That's like made you put up a shield,
and if you do want that connection, you have to
work on like your shit too. And I think it's
not that women are working as much on like becoming
interesting and becoming like the smarket because they've actually done
a lot of that alone and they're so hyper independent

(49:42):
and it's more of like they have to heal their
wound towards men.

Speaker 1 (49:48):
Yeah, what I mean, were you when you coach people?
What's the first steps in healing your wounds before you can,
because I agree like it.

Speaker 2 (49:55):
The worst place to be is wounded like heavily and
out trying to right. That's where a lot of the
damage gets done, where you don't treat people like you
would otherwise and you end up causing more problems. So
what's your best advice for people when you're coaching them
on how to heal those wounds before they get into
the dating game.

Speaker 3 (50:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (50:12):
People always ask how do I? How do I? How
do I? And how do you?

Speaker 3 (50:16):
Is the wrong question because we all really know in anything,
and like health and fitness, we know what to do.

Speaker 4 (50:21):
Someone's like how do I lose weight?

Speaker 3 (50:22):
Like?

Speaker 4 (50:22):
You need to move more, you need to eat less.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
Sure, and it's the.

Speaker 3 (50:25):
Same with healing. You know what you need to do
to heal if you really reflect on it. That's not
the problem.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
Though.

Speaker 4 (50:31):
It's not why people are fat either. It's not the problem.

Speaker 3 (50:34):
It's why don't you so in anything that you're looking
at and you're like, wow, I keep seeing this toxic
pattern pop up in my life. I keep ending up
with people who don't serve me. I keep doing patterns
that I hate myself for. It's not the how do
you when you finally quit your addiction?

Speaker 4 (50:48):
One do you? Just will?

Speaker 3 (50:49):
You know how to? But it's why don't you? And
understanding what are all those things? And usually what it
comes down to the why don't you as like, oh,
because I have a deep belief that I'm unworthy. You
have a deep belief that I'm don't deserve love. I
have a deep self hatred for myself that I'm not addressing.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
Yeah, I think you nailed that there.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
I think the part that people miss is you have
to actually sit with it and not be distracted. It's
you know, it's so easy in modern society to to distract.

Speaker 3 (51:17):
I just filmed a video on this I am and
edited yet, but like be brave enough to sit in
the pain because I'm like, I'm just lost my dog
and I'm going through that like grief and I'm like, yeah,
I'm like I get it, Like helps me sometimes going
through these situations to relate to be with Sometimes I'm
like stop doing that.

Speaker 4 (51:32):
Then I'm like I feel it.

Speaker 3 (51:33):
I'm like I just want to grasp at anything so
that I don't feel that. And in those moments I
have to coach myself and I'm like, you have to
be brave enough to feel it, to not even reach
out to like sometimes even healthy things. It's like you
want to put on music, you want to put on TV.
But it's like then it can even I feel myself.
I'm like, let me text my most toxic act like
I'm like anything, and I'm not. But I'm like, I
feel I understand that desperation that people end up in

(51:55):
these like addiction loops with themselves, because like I just
I just don't want to feel it. I'll grasp at
anything for it. You have to be brave enough to
sit in it.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
Yeah, No, it's very well said well, and it really
is so easy today, Like we're in touch with people
that in the past you probably wouldn't be able to
reach back out to those people, right or you wouldn't
have like a roster ready, or you wouldn't I mean,
it's so easy to get food to you or snacks
or alcohol or marijuana even legalize everywhere. So it's like
more than ever, it's it is really easy to be

(52:22):
able to numb yourself out and not have to look
at the thing that is causing you that.

Speaker 3 (52:27):
Back, I know, and then we end up with horrible
lives and we're like, why do I hate my life?
Why am I still unfulfilled?

Speaker 4 (52:31):
It's like there it is.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
Yeah, Well you are awesome. Your videos are great. I
love your content, I really do. I'm going to I'm
going to be deep diving even more. I watched quite
a bit in preparation for this, but the more I
was watching, the more I'm like, Okay, she's really good.
So guys, if you're going for a coach somebody to
help you women, I highly recommend it. For people that
want to follow, you are the best place to send them.

Speaker 3 (52:51):
Yeah, you follow me on Instagram at Julie Tice Official,
or on my YouTube Julie Tye or on my TikTok
Julie Tye.

Speaker 1 (52:58):
Awesome.

Speaker 4 (52:59):
Thank you again, thank you so much for having me.

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#662 – Julie Theis – Reality TV Star from Netflix “The Trust,” Psychoanalyzing Celebrity Disorders

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#662 – Julie Theis – Reality TV Star from Netflix “The Trust,” Psychoanalyzing Celebrity Disorders