August 25, 2019 • 47 mins
Richard Hatem joins us again to discuss The Knightly Murders (1975) in which an animated suit of armor menaces those who want to form a "historical discotheque". Could it be that Hans Conried is behind it? And how did Kolchak end up in the loony bin? (Or did he?)
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Episode Transcript
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(00:48):
Tuesday at fifteen pm. If youknow anything about Chicago politics, you'll understand
why a sixty three year old boardcaptain was braving the ungentle hour and the
less gentle streets. You see,Ward Captain Leo J. Ramutkam was returning
home from awake and off reader zameto a loyal, regided voter he knew
would one day meet him in thatgreat polling station in the sky. What
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Ward Captain romutka fail to foresee wasjust how soon that meeting would be.
That was the voice of reporter CarlKolchak in the case they were calling the
Nightly Murders. It was the eighteenthepisode of The night Stalker, released on
March seventh, nineteen seventy five,directed by Vincent McVitty. I thought it
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was mcgavitty, but I don't know. The only episode that he directed of
The night Stalker. Story by PaulMan Megistretti, who I think this was
his first gig as a writer.He would go on to a bunch of
other stuff, a lot of Barettasand some Simon and Simon's and one of
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my favorite things, whiz Kids.And it was also written by Michael Cozelle
Cozole, who would go on tobe the author of Richie Brockleman Private Eye,
which I don't know if that lastedmore than one episode or nah,
but that was kind of this weirdfailed spinoff of Colombo, if memory serves
so. No, No, thatwas a spinoff of the Rockford Files.
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Oh it was because that same guywas in Colombo as like a he wanted
to be a detective, but thenhe wasn't You're right those Bacco and Cannell
both working on that, of courseby Dennis Dugan, who then went on
to not only be in movies,but he became a director and directed a
bunch of Adam Sandler movies and Chrishe Richie Brockleman Private Eye qualifies for the
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one season show just saying that wasZell him and then mc mcvat yeah,
mckevin. He also directed a tonof shit, including a whole bunch of
the nineteen nineties Colombo. But theless said about that the better. So
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I am joined by Chris Stashu asalways Yes, I am here and that
is spelled nightly with a K,not with an end, and also on
this episode as special guest, RichardHadAM. Hey, thanks for having me
back, gentlemen. So let's talkabout the nightly murders. Yeah, like
you said, Chris, this doesn'thappen every night, though it seems to
happen every night for a little while. Yes, that would be the way
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it seems. Yes, let's talkabout it, because I am not going
to give my opinion until I hearat least one other opinion who I am
on tenter hooks. I really likethis episode, and I am willing to
explain and then defend my liking ofthis episode, but I'll say the two
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things I like about it the bestare I like the guest stars John Denner
and Hans Conny. I like thema lot, and I and I also,
I'm going to say that I actuallythink that the Black Knight is kind
of a badass antagonist and looks prettycool. I'm not saying it couldn't look
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cooler, but I think there's alwayssomething really awesome about a suit of armor
coming at you with the blank maskdown and you just don't know what's making
it move, but you know it'sgoing to kill you. So based on
those two things, I'm going togive this a thumbs up. I was
so reminded of Scooby Doo whenever Isee a suit of armor that is running
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after or coming after someone. Butlike, but in a good way.
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You're saying this was this made itgood? Right? Oh yeah, of
course I like the guests a lot. Are you going to be mean?
Are you going to be mean?Chris? I mean the way that this
episode wraps up is one of theworst wrap ups of an episode we've seen
of this show period. Did youread the script? Because I just read
the script last night. OMG.This episode opens up in an insane asylum
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where we've got two sets of legscoming into this room, where we then
reveal that it is Vincenzo and Ron. And then the person who's on the
floor turns over and it's Carl andhe starts babbling about this black night and
he's in a straight he's in astraight jacket, and Ron course is like,
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oh, this is the best thathe's dressed in a long time.
So his narration because we don't seehim narrate the beginning and end, like
we normally would see him sitting athis desk or you know, on a
dock waiting for somebody to pick uphis luggage or something like that. But
here he is in this insane asylum. And then even at the end they
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break the fourth wall because they're like, oh, there's a little camera over
here, Carl. They've been recordingyou the whole time. You know,
you don't have to worry about gettingto your recorder. It's all on tape
and they have it on film.And then Vincenzo looks right at the camera,
shrugs and walks out. And thenCarl looks at the camera and says,
well, you believe me, don'tyou. It's all true or something
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like some Really it's really weird,and I'm I got to say for he,
okay, a couple of weird things. One is so the first scene
and then that final scene the bookends of him in a strait jacket in
an insane asylum are removed, Butthen everything else is almost exactly as written,
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like word for word. The dialogue. I mean, it's incredibly faithful.
I think maybe within those other pagesonly a couple scenes have been cut
out, and they may have beenfilmed and then just cut out, But
otherwise the dialogue is like ridiculously faithfulto what was written. Right, Other
than that opening and closing, whichare maybe like five pages worth of stuff.
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This script runs sixty two pages,and I'm like, I know that
they said that with Colchak they wouldtend to overwrite a little bit because McGavin
liked to have a very rapid firedelivery, so he would compress the time
that way. But still sixty twopages, it's a lot. And I
will say though that having read nowa couple of these scripts, I actually
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think that in of filmmaking, likelike a writer trying to write a visual
piece, that some of these scriptsare written at a pretty high level that
the actual production never lives up to. It's like, it's like, Okay,
that's a nice idea that we woulddo that reveal or have that angle
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or tell the story in that particularvisual way, but we don't have the
time or money, so we're justgonna throw a camera at it and film
the scene. Which is kind ofsad because clearly, even at this late
date, eighteen episodes in, someoneis like, there might be a cool
way to actually come into this scene, and they just it just never happens.
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I'll say what I did read thescript. I was just curious if
anyone else had, because the intera outro would have made this episode ten
times better because it would have beendifferent. This is very much stock in
trade Colchack at this point, whichis fine. However, the issue I
have is that the way it wrapsup is so similar to things we've seen
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before that oh, and then allof a sudden, this magical acts kills
the Black Night. Okay, Iwant a little bit more in the climax
of the episode, That's what Iwant. There seems to be a little
bit of a disconnect with this episodebecause there is so much to like in
this episode. I don't dislike thisepisode, but the way the episode wraps
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up is so rushed and hand fisted, and it's like and then a magical
acts and they're going to be madat me for destroying their museum. The
end, like whoa, whoa,yeah, yeah yeah. The post killing
of the monster beat is literally it'sfifteen seconds of just some voice over and
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then we're out. And it's funnythough, because I always remember, oh,
like he I think it is kindof cool and on brand for Track
to like not be badass and toalmost just barely survive his encounter with the
supernatural thing which I really do thinkis a conscious, constant thing. It's
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never cool. He's never in control. He just like can barely do it.
And the fact that he can,he can only like the battle axe
is so heavy he can barely liftit. I always sort of liked it,
but I was also frustrated by it, and I was surprised to see
that it was really mapped out inthe script. It was like in the
script, it's like he can barelylift it. He barely gets it up
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to his knees, he barely pokesat the suit of armor with it,
and yet apparently somehow bass enough andthen and then the suit of armor collapses
onto the edge of or the pointof the axe, and that completes the
ritual killing, so only a fleshwound. So that that part was like
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a little frustrating in the way alot of the endings are like he never
really just gets to stock the shitout of one of these things. But
yeah, then it wraps up reallyquick. Here's my thing, though,
Chris, do you think it wouldhave diminished, like in your eyes,
your respect for Coleshack if you literallysaw him in a straight jacket. No,
I think it would have been justkind of an interesting twist. I
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mean, look, this is thesame guy who murdered someone in front of
the police. I mean he murderedScoresny, like straight up killed him and
was essentially just you know, givenaway Scott Free. So if this show
we're on now, and I'm nottalking about the two thousand and six remake,
I'm talking about if it were onnow, there would have to be
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there would be a storyline similar tothe way the script was written, where
Colchak is, you know, deemedinsane by people, and you know,
he's spouting off this nonsense and peopledon't take very kindly to it and want
to get rid of him. It'sa little bit more kind of prescient,
I think than even the show wasattempting to go for if that makes sense.
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It showed some consequences for Colchack doingwhat he's been doing this whole time
exactly. But what was weird aboutit was why this episode, Like how
is this one any crazier? Likelike it's not like like they didn't have
a scene earlier where like Tony's givinga speech to the press club and Carl
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comes running in screaming about something likethere are other episodes where he's probably publicly
acted more insane. So it wasa little weird that, for whatever reason,
this is the one that ends himin the booby hatch, even though
I know it was Rausch sort ofgetting his revenge, but you know,
I mean, it was just kindof odd, like if they are going
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to do that as a bookend,why for this particular episode. And that's
the thing I don't know, iswhy this episode unless it's just Rausch out
playing Colcheck, which is fine,because Roush is I think one of the
better kind of police, you know, Sutton a villain, but kind of
antagonists or cole Jack that we've had, if not the best. And John
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Denner is so great you would callever seeing the factor before, because I
mean, he turns up in alot of stuff. He was in an
episode of The Rockford Files called There'sOne in Every Port, But I really
remember him from an episode of theoriginal Twilight Zone called Mister Garrity and the
Graves. I don't remember that,but I remember that he was in an
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episode at Colombo. He was thecommodore and last or off for the Commodore,
and he was the commissioner. Ithink it was an airplane to the
sequel that is beautiful, well garrittyand the Graves was one of the creepier
Twilight Zones, and it was inthe It was kind of like in the
Old West, and John Denner,the guy who plays Roush, comes into
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town and he's basically a guy whowho says, I can bring all of
your dead relatives back, and soeveryone pays him a bunch of money to
do it. And and then thatnight at midnight, it's very foggy in
this old Western town and all thesepeople start wandering through the fog from up
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on boothill or wherever it is they'reburied. And when the town suddenly realizes
that it's for real, they payhim twice the money to make it stop.
And this is what he does townto town and and you know,
and it's it's but it's one ofthose ones where it's like, oh,
we know, it's it a completecon game or the hiring actors to do
it, or what is it?Or is it the Monkey's top? But
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that's what he plays in the TwilightZone. And he's the same. I
mean, like anytime you see JohnDenner, he is just John Denner.
He's exactly the way he is inthis episode. Well, it's kind of
like Hans Conried. He plays unhingedso well, and they'll play that like
erudite professor type character who is juston the edge of going crazy, and
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when he passes over into that,I just always love when he explodes.
Yeah, like when he played CaptainHook, which is what I know him
from. I mostly know him fromhis voice work, and then like Captain
Hook, but I think he alsodid voice work on Bullwinkle, and then
he was in The Five Thousand Fingersof Doctor t which is fantastic movie.
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That's right. When was he hook? Though, Chris? What which one
was the original? The V nineteenfifty three v Peter Pan? Where is
it man made lagoon? Now we'vesearched that, we've combed Cannyboo Coves.
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Yeah, no, no, no, no, that's he deals hid it.
But wait, those red Skins knowthese islands better than I doom your
own ship. Yeah. Same yearhe was Doctor Turr Willicker. Oh okay,
so you're saying he was better thanDustin Hoffman crazy? Come on,
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Yeah, I just want to Ijust want to be clear here. I
just want to know what we're sayingdefinitely no, Hugh jack Man. Okay,
oh my god, I forgot thatthat was the thing. What about
what about Christopher Walkin? That's thedeepest of deep cuts. Yeah, that
that's that's pretty deep. Alison Williamswas it? Alison Williams is Peter fan
and that one a total abomination ofan idea. But whatever, No,
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Hans Conrid is great, and thereare no more Hans Conraids, like there
is no like who is today's HansConreid exactly? Well, that's right.
He was snidely whiplash. That's whyI remember that voice. Yeah, that
voice is great, and and it'sfunny because they I know we've talked about
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this before, but Cole Shack,I mean the you know mccavan version.
They really packed these episodes with recognizable, venerable old character actors. And I
have to believe that these guys werestill under contract to Universal or or somehow,
because I don't otherwise I don't knowhow you get them unless it was
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just like Darren mcavan's Poker Buddies andhe's just like, oh yeah, call
up hands, he'll go it.People like Shrug Fisher, he's got a
filmography a mile wide. You know, just so many people that are like,
oh, yeah, I recognize thatface. I might not know exactly
what they were in, but forsure I recognize that face. I mean,
let's be honest. The best partof this episode is when it turns
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out Vincenzo has fake telephones. Yes, I think he is a knockoff.
I know that they had like telephonelicenses and TV licenses and those kind of
things over in England. I don'tknow about unofficial phones here in the United
States. What is going on here? I don't know. I have no
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idea when mob Bell before it brokeup and they had the monopoly, was
it like you had to buy yourphone from the phone company and each phone
had to like be registered somehow,and they had bootleg songs. It definitely
seemed like a bootleg phone of somesort. But yeah, I think you're
right about that. That whole subplot, or like little kind of little bit
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is pretty great. But I mean, Robert Mhart as the coat of arms
dealer who is essentially selling Cole Chackbullshit for no reason other than to get
money out of him because he thinkshe's wasting his time is pretty great.
That whole coat of arms thing totallyreminds me of the Taxidermist that we had
a couple weeks ago, where itwas just like, oh, how well,
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you know, how dare you writebad things about taxidermists, but where
he's just like trying to sell hima stuffed animal, trying to get money
out of him. Whereas this guyis just like, yeah, let me
sell you a coat of arms andmaybe I'll give you some information, but
it's going to be really difficult toget that out of me. What's weird
about it is that on the pagein the script, it's even more obvious
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that they're complete Charlatans, and theymake a much bigger deal out of like
cutting one name off of the coatof arms and gluing the cole Shack name
on to give to him. Froma writing standpoint, is like, why
are you telling us that this guyis a total rire? Yet at the
same time this guy is providing thelynchpin information of the entire episode. Look
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like we're supposed to believe everything hesays about g D Met and Core,
but at the same time he's totallylying to Carl, So you're like,
Okay, we totally solid on theone hand, totally lying on the other
hand. Okay, I'll buy that. Sure, this is a little weird.
It's a little weird. Yeah,I mean it's funny and it's totally
coleshacky to have that. It's justit's hard when they're working across purposes in
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the exact same seme, like youalmost want because whenever you get that character,
when it Victor Jory in the Diableroepisode or that guy who deals in
Hindu antiquities Indie rock Shassa episode,it's like, one way or another,
you believe those guys when they're layingdown the legend, right, and so
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this guy's ben having that role.But but he's also like open, I'm
also a total liar. I don'tknow, but somehow you buy it.
I don't know. I'd also liketo point out lou Dressler still alive,
which is great because she's awesome inthis episode. Speaking of her still being
alive in real life, dying offscreen in this episode and being a throwaway
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line again kind of weird, veryweird. Right, Oh, she's dead
by the way, Like, whoa, Okay, she got asked to death
in another room. You were talkingabout the woman who plays Minerva Musso.
Yeah, yeah, lou Dressler,the one who the one is disappointed that
that Coleshack isn't there to rape?What the fun? Yes? Rape or
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rape or what does she say?Rape? Or theft raper rob? Really?
Right? What? And then Colessays no, no, no,
I'm a reporter. Don't get excited. And she's like, oh, he's
saying don't get excited. What adepressing little man? What the fuck?
Oh yeah, different era, right, I guess or something amazing character.
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I'm going to go to my gravebelieving that David Chase wrote all of that,
because with the reference to David Bowieand that just to me feels like
David Chase kind of talk. Butthat is that is a weird character.
I mean, I love her,but that character has not I don't I
don't want to say she has anage. Well, but man, that
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is not the kind of character you'regoing to see today. Yeah. When
she made the result of the referenceto David Bowie, I was like,
did I just hear what she justsaid? Is that? I went back
and actually rewound it because I didn'tbelieve that she was making a modern culture
reference. And then colsh I go, oh, no, it's not about
David Bowie, and I'm like,wow, we actually have a little soundflip
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of Coleshack saying David Bowie and theyget a lot of mileage about him getting
the perfume on his clothes from her, and that just is like the running
gag for the rest of the episode, right that he smells like a bunch
of dead bagonias. But you know, the other thing I love about this
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is that they like they're always tryingto come up with another twist on well,
what's Carl's relationship with this week's policecaptain going to be? And in
this episode he's actually pretty aggressive,Like it's not the police captain necessarily going
get out of here, Carl,it's Carl becoming exasperated with him. And
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then even when he tries to pullrank in that episode, he's like,
oh, if I were you,you know, you were found five feet
from a butchered corpse, I'd havea big tension headache, And Coleshack just
comes right back at him. He'slike, you know what, You're lazy.
You don't even do police work anymore. You steal information from reporters and
you sit on your ass and youdon't and you're you're bored with police work.
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I'm like, whoa Jesus Carlos likefucking taking it to this guy with
tongs. I was impressed well theway that he describes him as the Edward
R. Muro of homicide. Iwas like, wow, Wow, he
must really respect this guy, andit feels like he's kind of hero worship
he at first, you know,what do you say to a living legend?
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And then he's kind of tongue tiedtalking to him. But yeah,
as the as the episode goes on, the scales kind of fall from his
eyes and he's just like, thisguy's a total phony. He just is
a blowhard and I love the waythat he's played. He's just he plays
a blowhard so well. And there'sone other weird little thing in this episode
that I don't know that I've everpicked up upon until I read the script
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last night, but um minerva muso, Like, there's that moment where they
think that Hans Conrid might be puttingon the suit of armor and killing the
people who are going to turn hismuseum into a discotheque. And we haven't
even we haven't even unpacked that insanityunpacked is the correct term to use.
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But he says she Minerva Musa,the character of Minerva Va Musso, says,
oh, I walked in on himand he was standing in front of
a mirror and saying some weird thingabout cleaving things in Twain. And then
they sort of just go past it. But in the script it says in
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the end, in the big confrontation, it says, oh, and then
the night swings and acts at Coleshack, almost cleaving him in Twain. And
then I'm like, wait a second, are you saying that Hans Conried's character
Mentel Bogs was like, did someweird spell, like some occult spell that
brought the night to life to gokill his enemies? What do you guys
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think that would make a lot moresense to me than just this suit of
armor decides to get up and walkaround and kill all these people who are
all to your point there to turnthis disco to this museum into a disco
teche. It would have made alot more sense to me. Yeah.
I mean again, it's it's oneof these episodes where things are just happening
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and they want there to be likea driving force behind it, but there
doesn't seem to be, even thoughthey like bring up that there should be
or could be or can be.It's like, don't even bring it up.
Just leave it alone then, Andthat's the weird part, Like you
would almost expect like in the script, then there would have been a scene
where like he sees like Koleshack goesback, almost like in a zombie episode,
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where he sees the old woman doingthe voodoo spell to bring her grandson
back to life, like like you'dalmost realize, oh shit, that's the
ants sort of the whole mystery isthat this guy has come up with some
ancient occult spell that can reanimate thisthing. And then at the end and
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be like, well, when Iwent back, you know, Mendel Bogs
had packed all his stuff and hisapartment was empty and no one's been able
to track him down. And it'skind of like, oh, that'd be
cool, but that's not even inthe script, Like they almost went there,
but then didn't do it even atthe script level, which was odd.
But yeah, I think that wouldhave been cool. I really think
that would have made a lot moresense and would have you know, because
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we always are on that line asfar as you know, regardless, it
would have been a supernatural thing,him conjuring this force to be inside of
the suit of armor. But Ithink it would have made more sense to
actually give that suit of armor alittle bit more of a purpose. And
like you were saying, like,use this golden type figure to do his
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bidding, It's kind of like,if you're going to go that far and
just go ahead and go the finalstep, why not give give Hans Conride
an even more cool character to playwell? And that's what I don't That's
why I don't understand about this episode, And that goes back to my initial
problem with the climaxes. Why notmake it an actual villain? Why make
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it this like nonsense of the suitof armor just came to life on its
own, Like what is to begained by not having an actual tangible villain
for Carl to chase down, evenif we know he's just gonna get away
anyways, because that's the way thisshow goes. Are you saying that you
whisky episode involved Coleshack murdering Hans Conrid. You know what I would have preferred,
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The way I would have had anend, would have would have had
the Black Night turning on Hans Conride. Instead, No, no, my
own creation exactly like Frankenstein's monster style. Instead we get this like lukewarm nonsense
of just like well maybe but notreally like okay, well fine, oh
okay, No, you could dothat. You could you could have you
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could have Call Shacks figure out likehe could be saying to Vincenzo, I
think that that guy that Mental Bogsand that museum has figured out a way
to bring that night to life,and to do he is bidding and murder
his enemies, and I'm going togo confront him right now. Then you
cut to Mental Bogs and the andthe Black Night killing Mental Bogs and Call
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Shack getting there just a minute toolate, and then realizing, oh shit,
now Mental's dead, and don't Idon't know the spell to make this
thing stop, And now I haveno choice and I've got to somehow figure
out a way to get to thatbattle axe or whatever, the axe that's
been blessed by the Pope, likethey all have come on, that's a
good, a normal thing pretty much. They just walked down the line and
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bless them all the kind of comeoff the assembly line that way. We
got to remake these episodes. Let'sjust remake the original episodes and just add
a little bits and pieces that,you know, the just raise them up.
I hear Stewart Townsend's not too muchthese days. Yeah, Gabriel Union
is making TV shows for Spectrum.Stewart Townsend is looking into the darkness,
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dark dark dark dark, dark darkness. It's looking back into him him the
words. Yeah, the words thatshow up on the screen. He's saying
words, here are some of them. Yeah, it's look, let's not
(29:33):
kid ourselves and look, I willtake the worst episode of the original show
over the best episode of the remake. But the thing that drives me to
enjoy this show as much as Ido is always going to be Darren McGavin's
performance. And then comes the characteractors in a close second. But the
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monsters and stuff are not It's notthat they're not memorable, it's just that
they're not particularly creative. I mean, if you really want to go there,
you can say this is almost aninvisible monster since we never really get
to see what's inside the suit ofarmor. Yeah, it's just oh and
the suit of armor's empty the end, Well, what did you want like
ectoplasm to come out. I meanthey could have made like a spirit thing
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float away, because I think wouldhave been that skeleton from last week's episodeven
Yeah. Anything. We have hadso many invisible killers, both on the
original and the reboot, that it'skind of astounding. Yeah, but I
don't think I would not count thisas invisible. This was a badass black
night swinging an axe and a lanceand a mace. I don't agree,
(30:41):
agree to disagree, but it wasstill invisible in the suit. The monster
was not in the suit, thatis correct. We're all in agreement on
that. I will agree that atleast it's not fully invisible. Chris,
I'm invisible inside my body. Listenhere, Richard. I don't want none
of your esoteric double speed on thispodcast. It's it's better than the invisible
(31:03):
predator that Colchack fights And like thewhat the what the hell was the name
of that episode, the one withMATCHI man too, No no, no,
no, the energy ear the MattriMinito. No no, the Matti
Minito is something different. They theyhave, they are, they will be.
Was the alien episode? Right?Yeah? That was the alien.
That the alien, that's the UFOand the Mattri Minido are two separate invisible
(31:26):
enemies. Oh the end, Yeah, because the right. But the alien
eats energy. The alien is eatingisn't the alien eating electricity? Or is
that the Matchi minedo? Yes,you're correct, they're both eating energy,
and one of them also eats bonemarrow. Oh my god boy, there's
(31:47):
a lot to unpack here. Oneof them leaves a big mess on Dick
fan Patten's lawn. Yes, that'sright, that's what. That's the thing
I remember from the UFO episode isDick van Patten. That's the role that
got him. They put him backon ABC's radar for eight of enough guys.
What would happen at a medieval steakand lobster discotheque? I mean,
(32:09):
wouldn't everyone be murdered by the blackknife? You would go, you'd be
eating in what was a museum.There'd be like food getting on priceless artifacts,
and then you get really drunk,and then there'd be a disco ball
and then there'd be some disco dancing. I think it's all very very clear.
So basically, it's like a medievaltimes restaurant. No utensils has there
(32:31):
been to medieval times. Is thatyou guys know about that? Or oh
yeah, yeah, well I wentto ex Caliber in Vegas. That's kind
of the same thing, right,same, the exact same thing. Are
you serious? There's no utensils atmedieval times? Wait, you don't know
this. The conceit is it's themedieval times. They didn't use no four
because those spoon and no knife,so you have to eat everything with your
(32:54):
hands. They give you cups.They give you cups though, but no
utensils because they had cups by thenin history, but they didn't have forks
or knives correct or spoons. Youactually didn't know that. That's insane.
I thought that that was like acommonly known thing. Dude, I've been
(33:15):
to medieval times and I need tomake that connection. Were you high?
I must have been. I musthave started with the grog and never looked
back. Yeah, don't bring meany food. Just bring me more of
your finest ale, sir. Weonly have Budweiser here. That'll do.
Welcome to medieval times, I'll beyou're serving lunch, Melinda. Might I
(33:37):
bet you something from the bar keep? Dost have doll a mug of ale
for me and me? Mate?He has been pitched in battle for a
fortnight and has a king's thirst forthe frosty brood. Thus thou might have
for Thus I'll be right back,my lord, Thanks to you, fair
wench. Yeah, all of asudden, this is like fucking Jim Carrey
(34:00):
and Cable Guy. That's what makesit great. Jesus Christ, what was
I thinking? And what were theythinking? I mean, look, I
still can't even believe a thing likeMedieval Times exists. However, it's pretty
funny that they're essentially talking about medievaltimes in this episode. But I love
how they tie it into a discoto like, what is the disco like
(34:20):
a same restaurants? One thing?Was it just that it was nineteen seventy
five and everything had to sort ofbe Hey, you know what disc goes
big? Just mention it and that'llmake it feel more like real life.
I think that has to be whatit is. Striking amazing. I never
understood that. I'm like, really, so, you've got priceless antiquities,
but they're gonna leave them there somehow, I don't know, and let people
(34:43):
dance around them. Yeah, becausethat's what people want to do. That's
you know, that's what makes youhungry? To me, not having mental
bugs. Being the villain in regardsto the thing turning into the discotheque is
bizarre because why would the suit ofarmor just come to life? Like,
why would it just come to lifeon its own? Like because it heard
that it was the museum was beingturned into a discotheque. It was reading
(35:05):
page six item you read the script, it got really mean. You make
him into like a necromance or whatever, and you set up he knows the
ancient spells. He's got a bookand it's got the ancient spell to bring
the night to life, and soI, Kleshack, have to go track
(35:27):
him down and make him do theequal opposite spell to make it stop.
But before I get there, he'skilled. Couldn't he just be the guy
that they talk about? Wait?What oh the dude from history? Yeah,
couldn't Like, wouldn't that even be? Another option is just make it
like the guy figured out how tojust live forever because he was already doing
necromancy and shit anyways, So he'sbasically he's like Connor McCloud. He has
(35:52):
all the antiquities and stuff, andit's got the whole like museum and now
he's like fallen on hard time timeand he can't do anything about it,
and they're going to turn his thinginto a discotheque. So Hans Conried is
like the Highlander or something. He'sbeen around this whole time. Maybe it's
because they've done something too similar withthat, the Jack the Ripper episode,
(36:13):
which would kind of be like that, where it's like he's been around forever
and he's just kind of hanging out, like doing his own thing, even
if he didn't make an immortal.Here's the joke. You've got to build
this mythology that there's this knight whohated all human pleasures, and so the
very idea that anyone would be,you know, celebrating or dancing in the
(36:34):
museum where his suit of armor livesis so repellent to him that his ghost
is coming back to kill all thosepeople. But Mendel Bogs has the exact
same character, the same exaction.He's like, I'm appalled that these people
are doing this, So why notjust connect those two? They were right
there. Oh god, you gotto get David Chase on this show.
(36:57):
I would like that. I've beenasking for a long time. I mean,
if we talked to David Chase.All we want to do is ask
what did it mean when the screenwent to black? No, that's a
joke. We will literally never mentionthe Sopranos. Yeah, we're not gonna
bring up the Sopranos. His careerended at the Rockford Files. He's done
two shows, Rockford and Koleshack,and that's all we care about, and
(37:20):
really only Koleshack. So really it'sokay, explain shopper, explain it.
Listen here, David Chase, youexplained this to us right now. Yeah,
we want to talk about your greatesttelevision show, that end of the
nineteen seventy five. I can't helpbut think as much as he probably doesn't
want to talk about the Sopranos,he probably enjoys just constantly being like,
yeah, you know, I've kindof wrote the Sopranos. Yeah whatever,
(37:43):
Like, no big deal. He'dprobably rather talk about Koleshack. It's like
I've answered every fucking Sopranos question I'mever going to answer, and we walk
up and it's like, oh,fuck, Sopranos, tell me about Koleshack,
and he'd be like, oh god, finally, okay, great,
what do you want to know.Tell us, tell us about the Sopranos,
sponsor great, tell us about theSopranos and the movie coming out.
Please. It's weird because David Chasewas involved with so many of these episodes
(38:07):
of the show. He's involved withlike four or five of them. I
think he was the story editor forall of these, so he was involved,
even if like his name isn't onthese scripts, he has his fingers
in them. I do get thatfeeling because but the weird thing is that
the titles of people on TV showshas changed so much. Like a story
(38:31):
editor now is a very very lowranking person in the writer's room. But
I think in the seventies, thestory editor was sort of almost like the
showrunner, Like I'm sort of theI'm the writer who goes through everything and
make sure every episode is sort ofbrought up to the level or matches whatever
(38:52):
the show is supposed to be.So even if a freelance writer writes an
episode, it's going to go throughmy typewriter to make it a night Stalker
episode, for instance. I thinkthat's the role David Chase played on this,
Like he rewrote you know, BobZemeckis and Bob Gaylee. They had
Ci Shermack as the showrunner after thefirst few episodes, So but yeah,
(39:15):
I see him more as like almostproducer type guy. But yeah, I
see you know, David Chase waslike I guess Martin Parlance the head of
the writer's room. I think you'reright. And I think cy Trumac was
a guy dealing with the studio andlike dealing with the budget and just sort
of with fucking Darren McGavin. Heand McGavin. But it heads all the
(39:35):
time, Oh right, ohlan,and McGavin apparently was like an executive producer
and at a certain point he waslike, you know what, just get
me off this show. I can't, I'm too tired. Sounds like Darren
McGavin was not the easiest person towork with, but I still loved him.
Oh yeah, I mean he justseems like he looked but this way.
If I ever had met Darren McGavin, I would have expected I was
(39:57):
meeting Carl Koleshak, and him andDarren McGavin are one and the same.
That kind of like grump grump miser, but with a sharp like a with
like a quick wit. It likea quick wit and a sharp tongue?
Was it marked with ziach? Washe saying that that? Didn't? He
meet McGavin once and McGavin was like, here, have some more wine,
and they were just like, ohokay, like like a couple of glasses
(40:20):
of wine. Got the stories rolling? That sounds awesome. I would give
anything. Oh my god, canyou imagine let's go drinking with Darren McGavin
and here's some stories. Yeah,that would be great. And it's unfortunate
because we're reaching the end of theshow two episodes left. So are you
guys going to still do an episodeabout the unproduced script? Yes? Okay?
(40:44):
And do I still get to comeand join your Yeah, of course
you do. No, Richard leaveYour infectious optimism is not wanted. Here,
mean, Chris mean, I'm thebad cup. I still can't find
the execute Sers written by Max Hodge, but we have to get a Balisle
and Eve of Terror. There wasone site that was selling like all of
(41:08):
the scripts that I don't have becauseI don't remember how many we managed to
collect, but there was one thatwas just like, oh yeah, we've
got this net and the other thing, and I was just like, here,
take my money. I was like, fry from that gift, here
take my money, and it waslike okay, sure, and then came
back it was like, oh yeah, the guy that sells us those he's
(41:29):
not available anymore. And I'm like, well, then, why do you
even have him on your site?Why'd you get me so excited about this?
And it's just like can you findthat person? And then every once
in a while I'll find like,oh yeah, this episode the script was
on auction for three hundred dollars throughsome weird auction site, not eBay,
and it's like, yeah, wellfuck that. I can't pay that much
(41:52):
money for any of these things.But yeah, the executioners has never shown
up any place that I've looked forit. I don't have that when I
haven't been able to find it.But offline, let me know about the
episodes. I mean, I knowit probably doesn't matter now because you guys
are almost done, but if youwant them, like, I've got a
bunch, so let me know theones you don't have. Maybe I do
have some of those just episodes,yea cool? All right. I will
(42:15):
say this guys, as you're goinginto the final two. It's my last
really favorite one. Oh this.This is no, so I don't I'm
not, I'm not. I'm notthrowing any shade on youth Killer or Century.
I'm just saying that this of theof the original twenty, this is
my last favorite one. So I'mlooking forward to hearing what you think of
(42:37):
youth Killer and Century. I kindof remember Century, but and I barely
remember youth Killer. I mean Ithink everybody around maybe our ages had something
for Kathy the Crosby but uh yeah, yeah, so yeah, yeah,
(42:59):
yeah, oh yeah, no,I can't wait. I will be sitting
by my giant radio on which Ilistened to your Yeah. Now come on,
turne on into the Coal track teams, ASU and Mike White down at
w r KTS col Track Teams.It's it's like the radio from a Christmas
story that Darren mccavan and his othergreat role they gather around for a little
(43:23):
orphan. Ay. Well, thankyou so much guys for coming on.
I want to thank John Walker forour theme music. As always, Chris,
tell me what is going on inyour world, sir? Right now,
over the Culturecast, we're doing PatriciaArquette August a little bit of a
literative word play there, so we'vebeen talking some Scorsese movies that she was
in a little bit of a moviewritten by Tarantino, thankfully not directed by
(43:45):
Tarantino. Got a David Lynch moviein there for good measure as well.
So you can check that out overat culturecast dot com. And if you
want to listen to another TV showpodcast that I am on, you should
check out the One Season Show.We just started that one, and that
is where we talk about TV showsthat only lasted one season. I also
(44:06):
do a Chronicles from the Crypt podcastwhere we talk about tales from the Crypt.
But I am busy all the time, and it's not just talking cold
check and Richard, what is happeningwith you? I am. We're finishing
up season two on Titans, andwe're about to debut season two of Titans
on DC Universe. I think thefirst week of September is episode one,
(44:29):
and so as episode one rolls out, will be filming episode thirteen, which
I am co writing, and Iinvite everyone to check out. Yeah,
Titans on a DC Universe. It'sgoing to be a good season. Yeah.
As of this recording, I thinkthey just dropped the season two trailer.
(44:49):
No fuck Batman, in this one. No fu Batman. Yeah,
what's up with that? That's likethe thing Fuck Batman. Yeah, I
was waiting for him to work atin somehow. In this one, super
Boy is going to go fuck Superman. Nice and this one and this one
we should just have him go eatmy ass Superman. Oh that's the Tarantino
DC movie. Never mind, lickmy bung hole, motherfucker, lick my
(45:12):
bung hole. Boy. Things wedon't need to hear a superhero say.
If this was the Snyder cut,he would have said it. Oh right,
sorry, but the Snyder cut exists. Thanks Kevin Smith. No,
shut the fuck up and go backand do whatever the hell you were doing
before you open your mouth. Ithink he was getting pouned. Yeah,
pooned. Bro. Where can peoplefind you? What are you up to,
mister Mike? Why? Well?Every week I host a podcast called
(45:37):
The Projection Booth, which you canfind over a Projection Booth podcast dot com.
Maybe one of these days when getRichard on that, that'd be kind
of fun. I'm only planned outto twenty twenty one at the moment,
but occasionally I do some special episodes, like we just did one on Solo
A star Wars story, which surprisinglyI haven't gotten any sort of death threats
over well, I'm still riding mine, so oh okay, good. If
(46:00):
you were triggered, I'm truggered.Actually, it's the next level of triggering.
Oh wow, yeah, so triggered. You haven't even heard of it
yet. It's like drug and triggered. Well. I would thank people for
going over to our website and forgiving us feedback and giving us all kinds
of reviews over on iTunes and stuff, and I do appreciate the people that
(46:23):
have given us the reviews on iTunes. We never did get enough to actually
do a live satellite broadcast from theI S headquarters in Chicago, but I
guess people in Chicago don't care enoughto listen to us do it live.
Nope, those are losers, losers, sad
Tuesday at fifteen pm. If youknow anything about Chicago politics, you'll understand
why a sixty three year old boardcaptain was braving the ungentle hour and the
less gentle streets. You see,Ward Captain Leo J. Ramutkam was returning
home from awake and off reader zameto a loyal, regided voter he knew
would one day meet him in thatgreat polling station in the sky. What
(01:12):
Ward Captain romutka fail to foresee wasjust how soon that meeting would be.
That was the voice of reporter CarlKolchak in the case they were calling the
Nightly Murders. It was the eighteenthepisode of The night Stalker, released on
March seventh, nineteen seventy five,directed by Vincent McVitty. I thought it
(01:34):
was mcgavitty, but I don't know. The only episode that he directed of
The night Stalker. Story by PaulMan Megistretti, who I think this was
his first gig as a writer.He would go on to a bunch of
other stuff, a lot of Barettasand some Simon and Simon's and one of
(01:56):
my favorite things, whiz Kids.And it was also written by Michael Cozelle
Cozole, who would go on tobe the author of Richie Brockleman Private Eye,
which I don't know if that lastedmore than one episode or nah,
but that was kind of this weirdfailed spinoff of Colombo, if memory serves
so. No, No, thatwas a spinoff of the Rockford Files.
(02:20):
Oh it was because that same guywas in Colombo as like a he wanted
to be a detective, but thenhe wasn't You're right those Bacco and Cannell
both working on that, of courseby Dennis Dugan, who then went on
to not only be in movies,but he became a director and directed a
bunch of Adam Sandler movies and Chrishe Richie Brockleman Private Eye qualifies for the
(02:46):
one season show just saying that wasZell him and then mc mcvat yeah,
mckevin. He also directed a tonof shit, including a whole bunch of
the nineteen nineties Colombo. But theless said about that the better. So
(03:06):
I am joined by Chris Stashu asalways Yes, I am here and that
is spelled nightly with a K,not with an end, and also on
this episode as special guest, RichardHadAM. Hey, thanks for having me
back, gentlemen. So let's talkabout the nightly murders. Yeah, like
you said, Chris, this doesn'thappen every night, though it seems to
happen every night for a little while. Yes, that would be the way
(03:29):
it seems. Yes, let's talkabout it, because I am not going
to give my opinion until I hearat least one other opinion who I am
on tenter hooks. I really likethis episode, and I am willing to
explain and then defend my liking ofthis episode, but I'll say the two
(03:51):
things I like about it the bestare I like the guest stars John Denner
and Hans Conny. I like thema lot, and I and I also,
I'm going to say that I actuallythink that the Black Knight is kind
of a badass antagonist and looks prettycool. I'm not saying it couldn't look
(04:16):
cooler, but I think there's alwayssomething really awesome about a suit of armor
coming at you with the blank maskdown and you just don't know what's making
it move, but you know it'sgoing to kill you. So based on
those two things, I'm going togive this a thumbs up. I was
so reminded of Scooby Doo whenever Isee a suit of armor that is running
(04:42):
after or coming after someone. Butlike, but in a good way.
(05:13):
You're saying this was this made itgood? Right? Oh yeah, of
course I like the guests a lot. Are you going to be mean?
Are you going to be mean?Chris? I mean the way that this
episode wraps up is one of theworst wrap ups of an episode we've seen
of this show period. Did youread the script? Because I just read
the script last night. OMG.This episode opens up in an insane asylum
(05:39):
where we've got two sets of legscoming into this room, where we then
reveal that it is Vincenzo and Ron. And then the person who's on the
floor turns over and it's Carl andhe starts babbling about this black night and
he's in a straight he's in astraight jacket, and Ron course is like,
(06:00):
oh, this is the best thathe's dressed in a long time.
So his narration because we don't seehim narrate the beginning and end, like
we normally would see him sitting athis desk or you know, on a
dock waiting for somebody to pick uphis luggage or something like that. But
here he is in this insane asylum. And then even at the end they
(06:24):
break the fourth wall because they're like, oh, there's a little camera over
here, Carl. They've been recordingyou the whole time. You know,
you don't have to worry about gettingto your recorder. It's all on tape
and they have it on film.And then Vincenzo looks right at the camera,
shrugs and walks out. And thenCarl looks at the camera and says,
well, you believe me, don'tyou. It's all true or something
(06:46):
like some Really it's really weird,and I'm I got to say for he,
okay, a couple of weird things. One is so the first scene
and then that final scene the bookends of him in a strait jacket in
an insane asylum are removed, Butthen everything else is almost exactly as written,
(07:09):
like word for word. The dialogue. I mean, it's incredibly faithful.
I think maybe within those other pagesonly a couple scenes have been cut
out, and they may have beenfilmed and then just cut out, But
otherwise the dialogue is like ridiculously faithfulto what was written. Right, Other
than that opening and closing, whichare maybe like five pages worth of stuff.
(07:34):
This script runs sixty two pages,and I'm like, I know that
they said that with Colchak they wouldtend to overwrite a little bit because McGavin
liked to have a very rapid firedelivery, so he would compress the time
that way. But still sixty twopages, it's a lot. And I
will say though that having read nowa couple of these scripts, I actually
(07:58):
think that in of filmmaking, likelike a writer trying to write a visual
piece, that some of these scriptsare written at a pretty high level that
the actual production never lives up to. It's like, it's like, Okay,
that's a nice idea that we woulddo that reveal or have that angle
(08:22):
or tell the story in that particularvisual way, but we don't have the
time or money, so we're justgonna throw a camera at it and film
the scene. Which is kind ofsad because clearly, even at this late
date, eighteen episodes in, someoneis like, there might be a cool
way to actually come into this scene, and they just it just never happens.
(08:46):
I'll say what I did read thescript. I was just curious if
anyone else had, because the intera outro would have made this episode ten
times better because it would have beendifferent. This is very much stock in
trade Colchack at this point, whichis fine. However, the issue I
have is that the way it wrapsup is so similar to things we've seen
(09:09):
before that oh, and then allof a sudden, this magical acts kills
the Black Night. Okay, Iwant a little bit more in the climax
of the episode, That's what Iwant. There seems to be a little
bit of a disconnect with this episodebecause there is so much to like in
this episode. I don't dislike thisepisode, but the way the episode wraps
(09:30):
up is so rushed and hand fisted, and it's like and then a magical
acts and they're going to be madat me for destroying their museum. The
end, like whoa, whoa,yeah, yeah yeah. The post killing
of the monster beat is literally it'sfifteen seconds of just some voice over and
(09:50):
then we're out. And it's funnythough, because I always remember, oh,
like he I think it is kindof cool and on brand for Track
to like not be badass and toalmost just barely survive his encounter with the
supernatural thing which I really do thinkis a conscious, constant thing. It's
(10:13):
never cool. He's never in control. He just like can barely do it.
And the fact that he can,he can only like the battle axe
is so heavy he can barely liftit. I always sort of liked it,
but I was also frustrated by it, and I was surprised to see
that it was really mapped out inthe script. It was like in the
script, it's like he can barelylift it. He barely gets it up
(10:35):
to his knees, he barely pokesat the suit of armor with it,
and yet apparently somehow bass enough andthen and then the suit of armor collapses
onto the edge of or the pointof the axe, and that completes the
ritual killing, so only a fleshwound. So that that part was like
(10:58):
a little frustrating in the way alot of the endings are like he never
really just gets to stock the shitout of one of these things. But
yeah, then it wraps up reallyquick. Here's my thing, though,
Chris, do you think it wouldhave diminished, like in your eyes,
your respect for Coleshack if you literallysaw him in a straight jacket. No,
I think it would have been justkind of an interesting twist. I
(11:20):
mean, look, this is thesame guy who murdered someone in front of
the police. I mean he murderedScoresny, like straight up killed him and
was essentially just you know, givenaway Scott Free. So if this show
we're on now, and I'm nottalking about the two thousand and six remake,
I'm talking about if it were onnow, there would have to be
(11:41):
there would be a storyline similar tothe way the script was written, where
Colchak is, you know, deemedinsane by people, and you know,
he's spouting off this nonsense and peopledon't take very kindly to it and want
to get rid of him. It'sa little bit more kind of prescient,
I think than even the show wasattempting to go for if that makes sense.
(12:01):
It showed some consequences for Colchack doingwhat he's been doing this whole time
exactly. But what was weird aboutit was why this episode, Like how
is this one any crazier? Likelike it's not like like they didn't have
a scene earlier where like Tony's givinga speech to the press club and Carl
(12:22):
comes running in screaming about something likethere are other episodes where he's probably publicly
acted more insane. So it wasa little weird that, for whatever reason,
this is the one that ends himin the booby hatch, even though
I know it was Rausch sort ofgetting his revenge, but you know,
I mean, it was just kindof odd, like if they are going
(12:43):
to do that as a bookend,why for this particular episode. And that's
the thing I don't know, iswhy this episode unless it's just Rausch out
playing Colcheck, which is fine,because Roush is I think one of the
better kind of police, you know, Sutton a villain, but kind of
antagonists or cole Jack that we've had, if not the best. And John
(13:05):
Denner is so great you would callever seeing the factor before, because I
mean, he turns up in alot of stuff. He was in an
episode of The Rockford Files called There'sOne in Every Port, But I really
remember him from an episode of theoriginal Twilight Zone called Mister Garrity and the
Graves. I don't remember that,but I remember that he was in an
(13:28):
episode at Colombo. He was thecommodore and last or off for the Commodore,
and he was the commissioner. Ithink it was an airplane to the
sequel that is beautiful, well garrittyand the Graves was one of the creepier
Twilight Zones, and it was inthe It was kind of like in the
Old West, and John Denner,the guy who plays Roush, comes into
(13:50):
town and he's basically a guy whowho says, I can bring all of
your dead relatives back, and soeveryone pays him a bunch of money to
do it. And and then thatnight at midnight, it's very foggy in
this old Western town and all thesepeople start wandering through the fog from up
(14:13):
on boothill or wherever it is they'reburied. And when the town suddenly realizes
that it's for real, they payhim twice the money to make it stop.
And this is what he does townto town and and you know,
and it's it's but it's one ofthose ones where it's like, oh,
we know, it's it a completecon game or the hiring actors to do
it, or what is it?Or is it the Monkey's top? But
(14:35):
that's what he plays in the TwilightZone. And he's the same. I
mean, like anytime you see JohnDenner, he is just John Denner.
He's exactly the way he is inthis episode. Well, it's kind of
like Hans Conried. He plays unhingedso well, and they'll play that like
erudite professor type character who is juston the edge of going crazy, and
(15:00):
when he passes over into that,I just always love when he explodes.
Yeah, like when he played CaptainHook, which is what I know him
from. I mostly know him fromhis voice work, and then like Captain
Hook, but I think he alsodid voice work on Bullwinkle, and then
he was in The Five Thousand Fingersof Doctor t which is fantastic movie.
(15:22):
That's right. When was he hook? Though, Chris? What which one
was the original? The V nineteenfifty three v Peter Pan? Where is
it man made lagoon? Now we'vesearched that, we've combed Cannyboo Coves.
(15:48):
Yeah, no, no, no, no, that's he deals hid it.
But wait, those red Skins knowthese islands better than I doom your
own ship. Yeah. Same yearhe was Doctor Turr Willicker. Oh okay,
so you're saying he was better thanDustin Hoffman crazy? Come on,
(16:11):
Yeah, I just want to Ijust want to be clear here. I
just want to know what we're sayingdefinitely no, Hugh jack Man. Okay,
oh my god, I forgot thatthat was the thing. What about
what about Christopher Walkin? That's thedeepest of deep cuts. Yeah, that
that's that's pretty deep. Alison Williamswas it? Alison Williams is Peter fan
and that one a total abomination ofan idea. But whatever, No,
(16:34):
Hans Conrid is great, and thereare no more Hans Conraids, like there
is no like who is today's HansConreid exactly? Well, that's right.
He was snidely whiplash. That's whyI remember that voice. Yeah, that
voice is great, and and it'sfunny because they I know we've talked about
(16:56):
this before, but Cole Shack,I mean the you know mccavan version.
They really packed these episodes with recognizable, venerable old character actors. And I
have to believe that these guys werestill under contract to Universal or or somehow,
because I don't otherwise I don't knowhow you get them unless it was
(17:18):
just like Darren mcavan's Poker Buddies andhe's just like, oh yeah, call
up hands, he'll go it.People like Shrug Fisher, he's got a
filmography a mile wide. You know, just so many people that are like,
oh, yeah, I recognize thatface. I might not know exactly
what they were in, but forsure I recognize that face. I mean,
let's be honest. The best partof this episode is when it turns
(17:40):
out Vincenzo has fake telephones. Yes, I think he is a knockoff.
I know that they had like telephonelicenses and TV licenses and those kind of
things over in England. I don'tknow about unofficial phones here in the United
States. What is going on here? I don't know. I have no
(18:02):
idea when mob Bell before it brokeup and they had the monopoly, was
it like you had to buy yourphone from the phone company and each phone
had to like be registered somehow,and they had bootleg songs. It definitely
seemed like a bootleg phone of somesort. But yeah, I think you're
right about that. That whole subplot, or like little kind of little bit
(18:25):
is pretty great. But I mean, Robert Mhart as the coat of arms
dealer who is essentially selling Cole Chackbullshit for no reason other than to get
money out of him because he thinkshe's wasting his time is pretty great.
That whole coat of arms thing totallyreminds me of the Taxidermist that we had
a couple weeks ago, where itwas just like, oh, how well,
(18:45):
you know, how dare you writebad things about taxidermists, but where
he's just like trying to sell hima stuffed animal, trying to get money
out of him. Whereas this guyis just like, yeah, let me
sell you a coat of arms andmaybe I'll give you some information, but
it's going to be really difficult toget that out of me. What's weird
about it is that on the pagein the script, it's even more obvious
(19:07):
that they're complete Charlatans, and theymake a much bigger deal out of like
cutting one name off of the coatof arms and gluing the cole Shack name
on to give to him. Froma writing standpoint, is like, why
are you telling us that this guyis a total rire? Yet at the
same time this guy is providing thelynchpin information of the entire episode. Look
(19:30):
like we're supposed to believe everything hesays about g D Met and Core,
but at the same time he's totallylying to Carl, So you're like,
Okay, we totally solid on theone hand, totally lying on the other
hand. Okay, I'll buy that. Sure, this is a little weird.
It's a little weird. Yeah,I mean it's funny and it's totally
coleshacky to have that. It's justit's hard when they're working across purposes in
(19:53):
the exact same seme, like youalmost want because whenever you get that character,
when it Victor Jory in the Diableroepisode or that guy who deals in
Hindu antiquities Indie rock Shassa episode,it's like, one way or another,
you believe those guys when they're layingdown the legend, right, and so
(20:15):
this guy's ben having that role.But but he's also like open, I'm
also a total liar. I don'tknow, but somehow you buy it.
I don't know. I'd also liketo point out lou Dressler still alive,
which is great because she's awesome inthis episode. Speaking of her still being
alive in real life, dying offscreen in this episode and being a throwaway
(20:37):
line again kind of weird, veryweird. Right, Oh, she's dead
by the way, Like, whoa, Okay, she got asked to death
in another room. You were talkingabout the woman who plays Minerva Musso.
Yeah, yeah, lou Dressler,the one who the one is disappointed that
that Coleshack isn't there to rape?What the fun? Yes? Rape or
(21:02):
rape or what does she say?Rape? Or theft raper rob? Really?
Right? What? And then Colessays no, no, no,
I'm a reporter. Don't get excited. And she's like, oh, he's
saying don't get excited. What adepressing little man? What the fuck?
Oh yeah, different era, right, I guess or something amazing character.
(21:22):
I'm going to go to my gravebelieving that David Chase wrote all of that,
because with the reference to David Bowieand that just to me feels like
David Chase kind of talk. Butthat is that is a weird character.
I mean, I love her,but that character has not I don't I
don't want to say she has anage. Well, but man, that
(21:42):
is not the kind of character you'regoing to see today. Yeah. When
she made the result of the referenceto David Bowie, I was like,
did I just hear what she justsaid? Is that? I went back
and actually rewound it because I didn'tbelieve that she was making a modern culture
reference. And then colsh I go, oh, no, it's not about
David Bowie, and I'm like,wow, we actually have a little soundflip
(22:04):
of Coleshack saying David Bowie and theyget a lot of mileage about him getting
the perfume on his clothes from her, and that just is like the running
gag for the rest of the episode, right that he smells like a bunch
of dead bagonias. But you know, the other thing I love about this
(22:26):
is that they like they're always tryingto come up with another twist on well,
what's Carl's relationship with this week's policecaptain going to be? And in
this episode he's actually pretty aggressive,Like it's not the police captain necessarily going
get out of here, Carl,it's Carl becoming exasperated with him. And
(22:47):
then even when he tries to pullrank in that episode, he's like,
oh, if I were you,you know, you were found five feet
from a butchered corpse, I'd havea big tension headache, And Coleshack just
comes right back at him. He'slike, you know what, You're lazy.
You don't even do police work anymore. You steal information from reporters and
you sit on your ass and youdon't and you're you're bored with police work.
(23:10):
I'm like, whoa Jesus Carlos likefucking taking it to this guy with
tongs. I was impressed well theway that he describes him as the Edward
R. Muro of homicide. Iwas like, wow, Wow, he
must really respect this guy, andit feels like he's kind of hero worship
he at first, you know,what do you say to a living legend?
(23:32):
And then he's kind of tongue tiedtalking to him. But yeah,
as the as the episode goes on, the scales kind of fall from his
eyes and he's just like, thisguy's a total phony. He just is
a blowhard and I love the waythat he's played. He's just he plays
a blowhard so well. And there'sone other weird little thing in this episode
that I don't know that I've everpicked up upon until I read the script
(23:56):
last night, but um minerva muso, Like, there's that moment where they
think that Hans Conrid might be puttingon the suit of armor and killing the
people who are going to turn hismuseum into a discotheque. And we haven't
even we haven't even unpacked that insanityunpacked is the correct term to use.
(24:18):
But he says she Minerva Musa,the character of Minerva Va Musso, says,
oh, I walked in on himand he was standing in front of
a mirror and saying some weird thingabout cleaving things in Twain. And then
they sort of just go past it. But in the script it says in
(24:38):
the end, in the big confrontation, it says, oh, and then
the night swings and acts at Coleshack, almost cleaving him in Twain. And
then I'm like, wait a second, are you saying that Hans Conried's character
Mentel Bogs was like, did someweird spell, like some occult spell that
brought the night to life to gokill his enemies? What do you guys
(25:02):
think that would make a lot moresense to me than just this suit of
armor decides to get up and walkaround and kill all these people who are
all to your point there to turnthis disco to this museum into a disco
teche. It would have made alot more sense to me. Yeah.
I mean again, it's it's oneof these episodes where things are just happening
(25:26):
and they want there to be likea driving force behind it, but there
doesn't seem to be, even thoughthey like bring up that there should be
or could be or can be.It's like, don't even bring it up.
Just leave it alone then, Andthat's the weird part, Like you
would almost expect like in the script, then there would have been a scene
where like he sees like Koleshack goesback, almost like in a zombie episode,
(25:49):
where he sees the old woman doingthe voodoo spell to bring her grandson
back to life, like like you'dalmost realize, oh shit, that's the
ants sort of the whole mystery isthat this guy has come up with some
ancient occult spell that can reanimate thisthing. And then at the end and
(26:10):
be like, well, when Iwent back, you know, Mendel Bogs
had packed all his stuff and hisapartment was empty and no one's been able
to track him down. And it'skind of like, oh, that'd be
cool, but that's not even inthe script, Like they almost went there,
but then didn't do it even atthe script level, which was odd.
But yeah, I think that wouldhave been cool. I really think
that would have made a lot moresense and would have you know, because
(26:33):
we always are on that line asfar as you know, regardless, it
would have been a supernatural thing,him conjuring this force to be inside of
the suit of armor. But Ithink it would have made more sense to
actually give that suit of armor alittle bit more of a purpose. And
like you were saying, like,use this golden type figure to do his
(26:53):
bidding, It's kind of like,if you're going to go that far and
just go ahead and go the finalstep, why not give give Hans Conride
an even more cool character to playwell? And that's what I don't That's
why I don't understand about this episode, And that goes back to my initial
problem with the climaxes. Why notmake it an actual villain? Why make
(27:15):
it this like nonsense of the suitof armor just came to life on its
own, Like what is to begained by not having an actual tangible villain
for Carl to chase down, evenif we know he's just gonna get away
anyways, because that's the way thisshow goes. Are you saying that you
whisky episode involved Coleshack murdering Hans Conrid. You know what I would have preferred,
(27:38):
The way I would have had anend, would have would have had
the Black Night turning on Hans Conride. Instead, No, no, my
own creation exactly like Frankenstein's monster style. Instead we get this like lukewarm nonsense
of just like well maybe but notreally like okay, well fine, oh
okay, No, you could dothat. You could you could have you
(28:00):
could have Call Shacks figure out likehe could be saying to Vincenzo, I
think that that guy that Mental Bogsand that museum has figured out a way
to bring that night to life,and to do he is bidding and murder
his enemies, and I'm going togo confront him right now. Then you
cut to Mental Bogs and the andthe Black Night killing Mental Bogs and Call
(28:26):
Shack getting there just a minute toolate, and then realizing, oh shit,
now Mental's dead, and don't Idon't know the spell to make this
thing stop, And now I haveno choice and I've got to somehow figure
out a way to get to thatbattle axe or whatever, the axe that's
been blessed by the Pope, likethey all have come on, that's a
good, a normal thing pretty much. They just walked down the line and
(28:48):
bless them all the kind of comeoff the assembly line that way. We
got to remake these episodes. Let'sjust remake the original episodes and just add
a little bits and pieces that,you know, the just raise them up.
I hear Stewart Townsend's not too muchthese days. Yeah, Gabriel Union
is making TV shows for Spectrum.Stewart Townsend is looking into the darkness,
(29:11):
dark dark dark dark, dark darkness. It's looking back into him him the
words. Yeah, the words thatshow up on the screen. He's saying
words, here are some of them. Yeah, it's look, let's not
(29:33):
kid ourselves and look, I willtake the worst episode of the original show
over the best episode of the remake. But the thing that drives me to
enjoy this show as much as Ido is always going to be Darren McGavin's
performance. And then comes the characteractors in a close second. But the
(29:56):
monsters and stuff are not It's notthat they're not memorable, it's just that
they're not particularly creative. I mean, if you really want to go there,
you can say this is almost aninvisible monster since we never really get
to see what's inside the suit ofarmor. Yeah, it's just oh and
the suit of armor's empty the end, Well, what did you want like
ectoplasm to come out. I meanthey could have made like a spirit thing
(30:18):
float away, because I think wouldhave been that skeleton from last week's episodeven
Yeah. Anything. We have hadso many invisible killers, both on the
original and the reboot, that it'skind of astounding. Yeah, but I
don't think I would not count thisas invisible. This was a badass black
night swinging an axe and a lanceand a mace. I don't agree,
(30:41):
agree to disagree, but it wasstill invisible in the suit. The monster
was not in the suit, thatis correct. We're all in agreement on
that. I will agree that atleast it's not fully invisible. Chris,
I'm invisible inside my body. Listenhere, Richard. I don't want none
of your esoteric double speed on thispodcast. It's it's better than the invisible
(31:03):
predator that Colchack fights And like thewhat the what the hell was the name
of that episode, the one withMATCHI man too, No no, no,
no, the energy ear the MattriMinito. No no, the Matti
Minito is something different. They theyhave, they are, they will be.
Was the alien episode? Right?Yeah? That was the alien.
That the alien, that's the UFOand the Mattri Minido are two separate invisible
(31:26):
enemies. Oh the end, Yeah, because the right. But the alien
eats energy. The alien is eatingisn't the alien eating electricity? Or is
that the Matchi minedo? Yes,you're correct, they're both eating energy,
and one of them also eats bonemarrow. Oh my god boy, there's
(31:47):
a lot to unpack here. Oneof them leaves a big mess on Dick
fan Patten's lawn. Yes, that'sright, that's what. That's the thing
I remember from the UFO episode isDick van Patten. That's the role that
got him. They put him backon ABC's radar for eight of enough guys.
What would happen at a medieval steakand lobster discotheque? I mean,
(32:09):
wouldn't everyone be murdered by the blackknife? You would go, you'd be
eating in what was a museum.There'd be like food getting on priceless artifacts,
and then you get really drunk,and then there'd be a disco ball
and then there'd be some disco dancing. I think it's all very very clear.
So basically, it's like a medievaltimes restaurant. No utensils has there
(32:31):
been to medieval times. Is thatyou guys know about that? Or oh
yeah, yeah, well I wentto ex Caliber in Vegas. That's kind
of the same thing, right,same, the exact same thing. Are
you serious? There's no utensils atmedieval times? Wait, you don't know
this. The conceit is it's themedieval times. They didn't use no four
because those spoon and no knife,so you have to eat everything with your
(32:54):
hands. They give you cups.They give you cups though, but no
utensils because they had cups by thenin history, but they didn't have forks
or knives correct or spoons. Youactually didn't know that. That's insane.
I thought that that was like acommonly known thing. Dude, I've been
(33:15):
to medieval times and I need tomake that connection. Were you high?
I must have been. I musthave started with the grog and never looked
back. Yeah, don't bring meany food. Just bring me more of
your finest ale, sir. Weonly have Budweiser here. That'll do.
Welcome to medieval times, I'll beyou're serving lunch, Melinda. Might I
(33:37):
bet you something from the bar keep? Dost have doll a mug of ale
for me and me? Mate?He has been pitched in battle for a
fortnight and has a king's thirst forthe frosty brood. Thus thou might have
for Thus I'll be right back,my lord, Thanks to you, fair
wench. Yeah, all of asudden, this is like fucking Jim Carrey
(34:00):
and Cable Guy. That's what makesit great. Jesus Christ, what was
I thinking? And what were theythinking? I mean, look, I
still can't even believe a thing likeMedieval Times exists. However, it's pretty
funny that they're essentially talking about medievaltimes in this episode. But I love
how they tie it into a discoto like, what is the disco like
(34:20):
a same restaurants? One thing?Was it just that it was nineteen seventy
five and everything had to sort ofbe Hey, you know what disc goes
big? Just mention it and that'llmake it feel more like real life.
I think that has to be whatit is. Striking amazing. I never
understood that. I'm like, really, so, you've got priceless antiquities,
but they're gonna leave them there somehow, I don't know, and let people
(34:43):
dance around them. Yeah, becausethat's what people want to do. That's
you know, that's what makes youhungry? To me, not having mental
bugs. Being the villain in regardsto the thing turning into the discotheque is
bizarre because why would the suit ofarmor just come to life? Like,
why would it just come to lifeon its own? Like because it heard
that it was the museum was beingturned into a discotheque. It was reading
(35:05):
page six item you read the script, it got really mean. You make
him into like a necromance or whatever, and you set up he knows the
ancient spells. He's got a bookand it's got the ancient spell to bring
the night to life, and soI, Kleshack, have to go track
(35:27):
him down and make him do theequal opposite spell to make it stop.
But before I get there, he'skilled. Couldn't he just be the guy
that they talk about? Wait?What oh the dude from history? Yeah,
couldn't Like, wouldn't that even be? Another option is just make it
like the guy figured out how tojust live forever because he was already doing
necromancy and shit anyways, So he'sbasically he's like Connor McCloud. He has
(35:52):
all the antiquities and stuff, andit's got the whole like museum and now
he's like fallen on hard time timeand he can't do anything about it,
and they're going to turn his thinginto a discotheque. So Hans Conried is
like the Highlander or something. He'sbeen around this whole time. Maybe it's
because they've done something too similar withthat, the Jack the Ripper episode,
(36:13):
which would kind of be like that, where it's like he's been around forever
and he's just kind of hanging out, like doing his own thing, even
if he didn't make an immortal.Here's the joke. You've got to build
this mythology that there's this knight whohated all human pleasures, and so the
very idea that anyone would be,you know, celebrating or dancing in the
(36:34):
museum where his suit of armor livesis so repellent to him that his ghost
is coming back to kill all thosepeople. But Mendel Bogs has the exact
same character, the same exaction.He's like, I'm appalled that these people
are doing this, So why notjust connect those two? They were right
there. Oh god, you gotto get David Chase on this show.
(36:57):
I would like that. I've beenasking for a long time. I mean,
if we talked to David Chase.All we want to do is ask
what did it mean when the screenwent to black? No, that's a
joke. We will literally never mentionthe Sopranos. Yeah, we're not gonna
bring up the Sopranos. His careerended at the Rockford Files. He's done
two shows, Rockford and Koleshack,and that's all we care about, and
(37:20):
really only Koleshack. So really it'sokay, explain shopper, explain it.
Listen here, David Chase, youexplained this to us right now. Yeah,
we want to talk about your greatesttelevision show, that end of the
nineteen seventy five. I can't helpbut think as much as he probably doesn't
want to talk about the Sopranos,he probably enjoys just constantly being like,
yeah, you know, I've kindof wrote the Sopranos. Yeah whatever,
(37:43):
Like, no big deal. He'dprobably rather talk about Koleshack. It's like
I've answered every fucking Sopranos question I'mever going to answer, and we walk
up and it's like, oh,fuck, Sopranos, tell me about Koleshack,
and he'd be like, oh god, finally, okay, great,
what do you want to know.Tell us, tell us about the Sopranos,
sponsor great, tell us about theSopranos and the movie coming out.
Please. It's weird because David Chasewas involved with so many of these episodes
(38:07):
of the show. He's involved withlike four or five of them. I
think he was the story editor forall of these, so he was involved,
even if like his name isn't onthese scripts, he has his fingers
in them. I do get thatfeeling because but the weird thing is that
the titles of people on TV showshas changed so much. Like a story
(38:31):
editor now is a very very lowranking person in the writer's room. But
I think in the seventies, thestory editor was sort of almost like the
showrunner, Like I'm sort of theI'm the writer who goes through everything and
make sure every episode is sort ofbrought up to the level or matches whatever
(38:52):
the show is supposed to be.So even if a freelance writer writes an
episode, it's going to go throughmy typewriter to make it a night Stalker
episode, for instance. I thinkthat's the role David Chase played on this,
Like he rewrote you know, BobZemeckis and Bob Gaylee. They had
Ci Shermack as the showrunner after thefirst few episodes, So but yeah,
(39:15):
I see him more as like almostproducer type guy. But yeah, I
see you know, David Chase waslike I guess Martin Parlance the head of
the writer's room. I think you'reright. And I think cy Trumac was
a guy dealing with the studio andlike dealing with the budget and just sort
of with fucking Darren McGavin. Heand McGavin. But it heads all the
(39:35):
time, Oh right, ohlan,and McGavin apparently was like an executive producer
and at a certain point he waslike, you know what, just get
me off this show. I can't, I'm too tired. Sounds like Darren
McGavin was not the easiest person towork with, but I still loved him.
Oh yeah, I mean he justseems like he looked but this way.
If I ever had met Darren McGavin, I would have expected I was
(39:57):
meeting Carl Koleshak, and him andDarren McGavin are one and the same.
That kind of like grump grump miser, but with a sharp like a with
like a quick wit. It likea quick wit and a sharp tongue?
Was it marked with ziach? Washe saying that that? Didn't? He
meet McGavin once and McGavin was like, here, have some more wine,
and they were just like, ohokay, like like a couple of glasses
(40:20):
of wine. Got the stories rolling? That sounds awesome. I would give
anything. Oh my god, canyou imagine let's go drinking with Darren McGavin
and here's some stories. Yeah,that would be great. And it's unfortunate
because we're reaching the end of theshow two episodes left. So are you
guys going to still do an episodeabout the unproduced script? Yes? Okay?
(40:44):
And do I still get to comeand join your Yeah, of course
you do. No, Richard leaveYour infectious optimism is not wanted. Here,
mean, Chris mean, I'm thebad cup. I still can't find
the execute Sers written by Max Hodge, but we have to get a Balisle
and Eve of Terror. There wasone site that was selling like all of
(41:08):
the scripts that I don't have becauseI don't remember how many we managed to
collect, but there was one thatwas just like, oh yeah, we've
got this net and the other thing, and I was just like, here,
take my money. I was like, fry from that gift, here
take my money, and it waslike okay, sure, and then came
back it was like, oh yeah, the guy that sells us those he's
(41:29):
not available anymore. And I'm like, well, then, why do you
even have him on your site?Why'd you get me so excited about this?
And it's just like can you findthat person? And then every once
in a while I'll find like,oh yeah, this episode the script was
on auction for three hundred dollars throughsome weird auction site, not eBay,
and it's like, yeah, wellfuck that. I can't pay that much
(41:52):
money for any of these things.But yeah, the executioners has never shown
up any place that I've looked forit. I don't have that when I
haven't been able to find it.But offline, let me know about the
episodes. I mean, I knowit probably doesn't matter now because you guys
are almost done, but if youwant them, like, I've got a
bunch, so let me know theones you don't have. Maybe I do
have some of those just episodes,yea cool? All right. I will
(42:15):
say this guys, as you're goinginto the final two. It's my last
really favorite one. Oh this.This is no, so I don't I'm
not, I'm not. I'm notthrowing any shade on youth Killer or Century.
I'm just saying that this of theof the original twenty, this is
my last favorite one. So I'mlooking forward to hearing what you think of
(42:37):
youth Killer and Century. I kindof remember Century, but and I barely
remember youth Killer. I mean Ithink everybody around maybe our ages had something
for Kathy the Crosby but uh yeah, yeah, so yeah, yeah,
(42:59):
yeah, oh yeah, no,I can't wait. I will be sitting
by my giant radio on which Ilistened to your Yeah. Now come on,
turne on into the Coal track teams, ASU and Mike White down at
w r KTS col Track Teams.It's it's like the radio from a Christmas
story that Darren mccavan and his othergreat role they gather around for a little
(43:23):
orphan. Ay. Well, thankyou so much guys for coming on.
I want to thank John Walker forour theme music. As always, Chris,
tell me what is going on inyour world, sir? Right now,
over the Culturecast, we're doing PatriciaArquette August a little bit of a
literative word play there, so we'vebeen talking some Scorsese movies that she was
in a little bit of a moviewritten by Tarantino, thankfully not directed by
(43:45):
Tarantino. Got a David Lynch moviein there for good measure as well.
So you can check that out overat culturecast dot com. And if you
want to listen to another TV showpodcast that I am on, you should
check out the One Season Show.We just started that one, and that
is where we talk about TV showsthat only lasted one season. I also
(44:06):
do a Chronicles from the Crypt podcastwhere we talk about tales from the Crypt.
But I am busy all the time, and it's not just talking cold
check and Richard, what is happeningwith you? I am. We're finishing
up season two on Titans, andwe're about to debut season two of Titans
on DC Universe. I think thefirst week of September is episode one,
(44:29):
and so as episode one rolls out, will be filming episode thirteen, which
I am co writing, and Iinvite everyone to check out. Yeah,
Titans on a DC Universe. It'sgoing to be a good season. Yeah.
As of this recording, I thinkthey just dropped the season two trailer.
(44:49):
No fuck Batman, in this one. No fu Batman. Yeah,
what's up with that? That's likethe thing Fuck Batman. Yeah, I
was waiting for him to work atin somehow. In this one, super
Boy is going to go fuck Superman. Nice and this one and this one
we should just have him go eatmy ass Superman. Oh that's the Tarantino
DC movie. Never mind, lickmy bung hole, motherfucker, lick my
(45:12):
bung hole. Boy. Things wedon't need to hear a superhero say.
If this was the Snyder cut,he would have said it. Oh right,
sorry, but the Snyder cut exists. Thanks Kevin Smith. No,
shut the fuck up and go backand do whatever the hell you were doing
before you open your mouth. Ithink he was getting pouned. Yeah,
pooned. Bro. Where can peoplefind you? What are you up to,
mister Mike? Why? Well?Every week I host a podcast called
(45:37):
The Projection Booth, which you canfind over a Projection Booth podcast dot com.
Maybe one of these days when getRichard on that, that'd be kind
of fun. I'm only planned outto twenty twenty one at the moment,
but occasionally I do some special episodes, like we just did one on Solo
A star Wars story, which surprisinglyI haven't gotten any sort of death threats
over well, I'm still riding mine, so oh okay, good. If
(46:00):
you were triggered, I'm truggered.Actually, it's the next level of triggering.
Oh wow, yeah, so triggered. You haven't even heard of it
yet. It's like drug and triggered. Well. I would thank people for
going over to our website and forgiving us feedback and giving us all kinds
of reviews over on iTunes and stuff, and I do appreciate the people that
(46:23):
have given us the reviews on iTunes. We never did get enough to actually
do a live satellite broadcast from theI S headquarters in Chicago, but I
guess people in Chicago don't care enoughto listen to us do it live.
Nope, those are losers, losers, sad
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