What's the Frequency, Kolchak? (2006)

Richard Hatem returns to The Kolchak Tapes to talk about the last episode of the Kolchak reboot that "aired". Written by Vince Gilligan, this is Mike's favorite episode of the Kolchak reboot as it includes some effective scares and even has Stuart Townsend showing some emotions in one scene.

Episode Transcript

(00:49):
There are countless stories in the cityabout the lives lived here, about how
the fates of others intertwined with ourown in ways we can never expect or
predict. I'm a reporter. Thisis my job to see, to understand.
But there are stories behind these stories, stories about terrors. I've only

(01:11):
begun to train my eyes to see. I've learned this scene carries a heavy
burden. Is once open to thedarkness, our eyes can never be closed
again. That was the voice ofreporter Perry Read in the case we're calling

(01:34):
what's the frequency cold Check? Itwas the tenth and final episode of The
night Stalker, which was released,or, as we like to say around
here, dumped unceremoniously onto iTunes Marchseventeenth, two thousand and six. I
am joined, of course, bymy regular co host, Well he's only
regular when he eats a lot ofbrand, mister Chris tashe and one and

(01:57):
a two and a three bum bumone. It's the frequency could check.
That's all I can think of.It just sounds like a goddamn song.
It is a song almost and ouram song. And also joining us on
this episode is mister Richard had himI've been dragged here against my wishes by
Chris. You're welcome. Yeah,I'm not gonna say anything other than that.

(02:23):
Yeah, I'm glad you're owning it. With all of the talk of
the New night Stalker, I hadnever watched a single episode, had never
intended to, and now I canno longer say that. I'm no longer
a virgin. So much easier tomake fun of something when you have no
experience of it. I mean,I exclusively mock things I've never seen,

(02:44):
because once you see it, thenthen in a weird way, you're sort
of investing. I mean, Idon't know, or I get into a
place of all I see what they'retrying to do, because you have to
realize I've worked with ABC. Iswear to god. I worked with those
people, the studio executives that theywere dealing with when this show was being
done. I did a show forABC before this, and I did a

(03:07):
show for ABC just a couple ofyears after this, so I know the
experience they were going through when theywere doing it, and even watching the
episode, I was like, ohboy, I can almost I can almost
I can almost read the network notesscrolling by at the bottom of the stream.
So spoiler alert, this is myfavorite episode of Night Stock or two

(03:30):
thousand and five. Spoiler alert forme. This to me, for me,
just kind of another episode. Imean, look it this way,
It's okay. I think you're right, Mike. This is kind of top
of the pile for this show becausemost of the other episodes have been It's
interesting that we're going all the wayback to the beginning of the series and

(03:51):
we are having invisible monsters again andmythology, well kind of mythology. Right.
That's a question I have for you, guys, because even not having
seen the other episodes, usually youcan watch an episode, or I can
watch an episode of a show andgo, oh, clearly this is referring
to stuff they've talked about before,or this is a big payoff. Clearly

(04:15):
this meant something to those who arefollowing along that it may not mean as
much to me because I haven't beenfilled in. But I get it this
is a big payoff. But Iwas a little bit unclear if this episode
was providing any of that. Didthey know this was the final episode?
Were they trying to do that?No, they did not know this was

(04:35):
the final episode, and we're notone percent done with Carl from two thousand
and five two thousand and six,because there were two more episodes, and
fortunately question Mark they released those scriptson the DVD release of this, so
we will be talking about those twoscripts, including the one that they readapted

(04:58):
for one of the X Foul rebootepisodes. So we're not done with Cole
Chack reboot, got it? Gotit? Okay? So so they thought
they were doing maybe a full thirteenepisode order. Yeah, and then I'm
not sure when they got told they'renot doing anymore. But I don't think

(05:19):
that this well, this doesn't wrapup the series whatsoever. And for me,
and feel free to argue with me, Chris, because I know you
love to do it, this doesn'tadd to mythology whatsoever. This feels like,
what do you call it? Abottle episode. The mythology stuff that
they bring up in this episode isjust that like, oh, this is
the thing you've always wanted to know, Cold Jack, because I'm the monster

(05:41):
that's going to give you what doyou want? And like I'm just a
trickster monster that's giving you your deepestdesires. So it's not really the mythology
you're right, but they bring upthe mythology because they bring up col Chack's
dead wife, which is mythology justfor this show. That is the show's
mytholog is the whole thing with Kolchak'swife and how did she die and the

(06:03):
mark of Kine or whatever whatever they'regoing for, that thing that they really
touched on like once and then neverbrought up again. I mean, as
far as I know, that isthe core mythology. I mean, that's
that's the equivalent of Mulder's sister,right, So it's the mystery of how
his luck, which which by theway, so I mean again you know,
spoiler alert fourteen years later. Butbut one of the weird parts of

(06:28):
the episode was that there was ascene, you know, two thirds of
the way through where it looked likethe implication was that the person I know,
we haven't really set up the episode, but the person you know,
who was the antagonist of the episode, it appeared that like it was being
hinted that he was the murderer ofColeshack's wife. At least I thought that's

(06:50):
what they were trying to say.But then Coleshack's behavior didn't necessarily you know,
he didn't immediately, you know,react to that information. Did anyone
else feel that way? I didn'tget that he murdered the wife. It
sounded like he was in the sameinsane asylum and he heard about the wife.

(07:11):
But I didn't get the implication thathe killed the wife. No,
he heard about Colcheck talking about it, right, But I didn't get the
inference as far as like, oh, yeah, and he had also killed
her. But yeah, you're right, we should probably set this up a
little bit better. We have thiscold open of this guy getting pushed down
a hallway in a wheelchair and there'ssomething at the end of the hallway and

(07:33):
he's very upset about it, andthe guy who's pushing him a little off
balance, and then that's our coldopen. Then, like I said,
Perry gets the vo That's the firsttime in this entire series that she gets
the vo at the beginning and atthe end. It's the same kind of
horseshit that we've talked about before,with the way that Colcheck does the vos,

(07:55):
with the words on the screen andall this kind of stuff. I'm
not sure why she did it unlessStuart Townsend just wasn't available at this point.
Maybe I don't know. That's oneof the frustrating things, is that
again, seeing that part, Iknew, oh, this is different because
I know you guys have talked abouthow it's always obviously Koleshack doing the narration,

(08:18):
and I thought, oh, well, now that she's doing it,
it'll be an episode that's from herpoint of view. And then it wasn't
like that's all you could possibly inferfrom. Oh she's doing it now,
this is her journey. We're goingto see the world through her eyes instead
of Koleshack. He'll be involved.So I was like, oh, interesting,

(08:39):
And then that did not happen atall. I'm not even sure she
was super clear on really what happened. By the end of the episode,
I'm like, well, c Clintonis still in the dark. To be
fair, I was kind of inthe darkest to what happened as well,
because you clearly see her show upat the house, but that's not really

(09:01):
her, I don't think. Butis that so is it in their minds
or is it is it in theirminds? It's an invisible goddamn monster.
Let's talk about that at the momentjumping the gun here, Well, but
here's the but the thing about Perry, the thing that you do mention about
Perry is that she's not in theepisode very much. But let's be honest

(09:24):
here, I'm glad it wasn't focusedon her because her character has been woefully
underdeveloped in this show. Anyways,Well, this could have been an opportunity
for her though, sure delfare.So okay, so now we're gonna we're
gonna get you know, start stealingthat bucket a little bit so that you
know see clearly the Coleshack bucket.Uh isn't ringing anyone's bell too hard,

(09:46):
So let's do the other one.But you know, go ahead with more
of the recap of actually what happensin the episode. So we have the
vo we rejoined the story, andwe've got Colchak working on a missing person's
case. It's kind of late atnight, and Perry starts talking about this
birthday party, which I don't knowif he was actually invited and forgot invited

(10:09):
and didn't want to go or justnever invited, but it sounds like he
might go maybe. But anyway,she leaves a story. She's off and
her own thing. That's where wesee Jane. Eventually we'll see Vincenzo,
not at the birthday party but afterand then Colchak there late at night in
the office, gets a visit fromthis again rather unhinged guy who's played by

(10:33):
Pat Healy and what's his character's name, Paul, I think, and Paul
thinks that Colchak is sending him acode through the articles that Colcheck has written
throughout this entire series. So hereI was thinking, Okay, now we're
going to tie together some of thisstuff. It's going to be like the

(10:54):
end of the first season of Fringe, where they start to tie all of
these disparate cases together and bring themall together. But unfortunately Paul's kind of
a lunatic. He kidnaps Colcheck andthen we spend pretty much the entire rest
of the episode in Paul's house andhim talking with cold Check. It's almost

(11:15):
like a two man play of thesetwo guys in this little room. And
there's potentially a monster at the endof the hall. And of course,
as I say that, I keepthinking about Grover. You know, there's
a monster at the end of thisbook. So we're going to talk about
that monster, which is called theOld Man. So it sounds like Paul's

(11:35):
got a lot of father issues andhe has been dealing with this or not
dealing with this for a long time. And yeah, he lives a very
weird existence, like the only thingin his main room is a toilet,
and then stacks and stacks and newspapers, because it seems like he is very
obsessed with all of the codes thathe is picking out of the newspapers.

(11:58):
And would also say that the nameof this episode, What's the frequency,
cole Check, it's a reference toDan Rather, and that he was attacked
by a guy on the street yearsago who just kept saying, Kenneth's the
frequency, Kenneth, what's the frequency? And was beating Dan Rather all the
time while he was asking that.And then that kind of entered into pop

(12:22):
culture being the RM song. Andthen I read a great conspiracy theory book
years ago that was trying to tiein Dan Rather being in Dallas nineteen sixty
three with this Kenneth was the frequency, and it gets into real murky territory.
But it was pretty great. Yeah, And that guy apparently who attacked

(12:43):
Dan Rather, he thought that NBCwas putting out some sort of or he
thought the news networks or the networkswere putting out its kind of a common
delusion. They were putting out asignal directly to him, and he wanted
that signal to be turned off,and he needed to know the frequency,

(13:03):
so he attacked Dan rather to findout what that frequency was so he could
stop these messages beaming into his head. Later on, like ten years later,
that guy killed an NBC employee,like a security guard, because he
was trying to break into NBC.He was still plagued by that same delusion
and actually murdered a guy. So, I mean, it's a pretty dark

(13:24):
ending to that, So it's perfectfor a pop song. It's like,
hey man, nice shot right aboutBud Dwyer killing himself on Live DV,
which I, alice thought was aboutKurt Cobain, But I just recently read
the Bud Dwyer thing, which issomehow way worse. Yeah, way,
way, way worse. Just likethe conclusion to that story that Richard just

(13:46):
oh my god again having only heardabout the show and then finally watching it,
it's pretty clear that this incarnation ofthe night Stalker is preoccupied, like
really preoccupied with that sort of likereally Chris Carter kind of level of almost

(14:07):
Millennium style. You know, theworld is an existentially horrible place and there
is no solution to the mystery otherthan more horror and darkness. I mean,
that's definitely the feeling I got fromthis episode, and I kind of
assume that's the other episodes. Also, I'd like to point out here that

(14:31):
Richard just mentioned Millennium, a TVshow that no one has mentioned in twenty
nineteen. Might one even say peopledon't even know that that show existed except
except for the crossover episode from Exiles. Lance Henrickson will remind you about that
if you ever talked to him,because he's still waiting for the movie.
He'll also remind you when you talkto him that he hates puppets and loves

(14:54):
making pottery. If he could dothat for a living, he would.
I like how we both spoke toLance Henrickson Mike, and neither one of
our interviews are even close to beingone of them touched on anything close to
similar. What do you think abouton a daily basis, how much I
hate puppets? In Potter and hopefullya Millennium movie coming soon, He's got
this idea of making a pot andthen have it basically fired by the fires

(15:18):
of the mushroom cloud that will strikenear his home, and then it turns
into a beautiful pot after the entirerest of the world has gone to ash.
That's astounding. Yes, you're right, Richard. That's the thing that
we've talked about multiple times on thispodcast is that this show, this like
you said, incarnation of coal Check, is just the X Files, even

(15:41):
down to the fact that they paircoal Check with a female character who is
a skeptic and he's a believer.And there's a Skinner esque character in Tony
Vincenzo. I mean, not reallyas much as Skinner, because Skinner was
almost in every episode of The XFiles and later on in the Run.
And you know that formula worked forthe ex Files because you had really charismatic

(16:07):
leads in Decovney and Anderson, andthere was actual chemistry, like palpable,
tangible chemistry between the two. Andagain, like we said before, there
isn't in this show. Stuart Townsend. It's not his fault entirely anymore than
it's Gabriel Union's fault. But theydon't have any chemistry. And you know

(16:27):
what, this is the last actualepisode of the show we're going to be
watching, and you know what,I think, Mike, you and I
can walk away and say that thatnever changed just having the benefit of seeing
only this episode. There is thatone scene, which then we are told
is clearly imagined by Cole Shack,where she comes and tries to help him,

(16:51):
and I like, and of courseme and I think maybe any viewer
just sort of looking for, youknow, working for humanity, looking for
a human connection, a relationship toroot for. I was sort of like,
oh okay, oh I see wherethis is going. They worked together.
I get that Koleshack is alone wolf, he's doing his own thing.

(17:15):
She clearly has some heart, andnow this is a moment where they're connecting.
Oh okay, great, And Iwas really excited about that until what
happened right afterwards, and then untilI found out that it probably wasn't real,
which it wasn't real. I meanagain, I don't know how to
process what ends up happening in thelater part of this episode, because what
Pat Healy is talking about at thebeginning of the episode ends up not really

(17:38):
factoring into anything. There's like aweird body horror nod where it's like I
cut off my toe to get ridof the old man. It's like,
what this feels like is and we'vetalked about this on other episodes of the
show and on other episodes of othershows that we're on. This is a
good idea that ends up going nowhere, ends up being too scatter shot for

(18:02):
its own good. It's like whenyou and I talked about anti viral Mike,
It's like, how many good ideascan you throw at the wall?
You need to pick one or twoand don't try to go for the full
spectrum of just bizarre shit to throwat the screen. When you have an
episode like this, the expectation whena guy is clearly crazy, usually a
character like that is used as youknow, almost a non human way to

(18:27):
inject theme. You know. It'slike it's like this person, because they're
crazy, doesn't have to follow anyrules, doesn't have to have like a
motivation that we're like, he's notcommitting the perfect crime, he's just crazy.
So the purpose he ends up servingin a show like this usually is
I'm going to magically speak your heart. It's kind of like what Chris was

(18:51):
saying earlier, like I'm going tobe a straight shot into Coleshack's soul,
and so this is going to bea way to reveal to the audience cole
Shack greatest hopes, dreams, fearsin a way that feels like you arrive
at something and that you could notarrive at in any other reasonable way,

(19:11):
because Colesack involves in a crazy world, so only a crazy person could speak
any truth to that. I guaranteethat that was the expectation, probably when
they wrote it and probably for anyonewatching it, was we're not going to
get anything that makes sense. Soat least we'll get the big thematic truths
of the show that haven't come yet. And I don't think we got that.

(19:32):
Did the thing that I wonder aboutwith this show, because look,
we will never truly know what thepotential of this show was going to be,
because, like you said, Richard, you can see the writing from
the studio kind of on the wall. When we talked to Frank Spott,
and it's what seems like Mike foreverago he said as such about the show,

(19:55):
that there was studio meddling. Andwhat we'll never know is what this
show could have been, or whatthis show was before it was turned into
a cheap X Files knockoff, butthus the spark, the seedling of an
idea, like you said, Richard, is there for chemistry between the two
of them. It just it's toolittle, too late. It's really too

(20:18):
little too late. This is thelast episode. And again, like you
said, Mike, they didn't know, but you're thirteen episodes in, like
come on. And then the weirdpart is the beginning. Her beginning narration
is all about how you know whenyou know there's darkness behind darkness, and
then when you see it, youcan't unsee it again, which implies that

(20:41):
she is going to witness something thatshe's never witnessed, and it seems to
be or about to be paid offwhen she joins him in this muffross place
and then gets shot. And youknow, when you're writing the episode,
as you're watching it and imagining variousoutcomes, you're thinking, oh my god.

(21:03):
So the final scene of this episodewill probably be Coole shack and sees
in the hospital and he's standing byher bed and and she's like, what
the fuck was that? What happened? And he's kind of like, yeah,
honey, welcome to the party.I'm dealing with this ship all the
time. And if you love meor you want a relationship with me,
you know it got my wife killed. It's you know, it almost got

(21:26):
you killed. That's the challenge ofbeing Carl Koleshack's girlfriend. And then the
question becomes, oh, so howis this relationship going to develop? If
that's the case, which could havebeen cool, Well, anything is better
than Jane McMahon is dancing at theparty with those other people, right,
Yeah, that was the most depressingparty I've ever seen. That was a

(21:49):
pretty bad party. Yeah. Yeah, Cole Check is lucky he got kidnapped,
right, he had the better nightoverall. I think the way you
have this show end, if theyhad known the show was ending, is
you have Perry Reid murdered. Colcheckgoes on and he devotes himself more to
finding whatever. But that would betough because I mean, don't you need

(22:14):
to have some investment in that relationshipfor that murder? To me, it's
like the wife's murder is nothing,but okay, we just need to set
up, you know, context.But I mean, the joke about the
X Files is people really did tunein to watch that relationship and they didn't
really They said that relationship less thanYou Fee the Cactus, and people still

(22:37):
were so into it. This episodehad moments for me, real good jump
scares, like when Paul's caseworker showsup, mister Kim, and when Paul
shows up and zaps him with ataser rudimentary taser. I was like,
okay, you know, like,hey, this guy's gonna come. He's
gonna you know, I know thatthis is coming, but it still was

(23:00):
just like, get out of there, get out of there kind of a
thing. Yeah. And then whenCarl's got a thermographic camera for whatever,
right what maybe just carries it aroundwith him, and when he gives it
to Paul and he's like, oh, go ahead, you know, look
at the end of the hallway andyou'll see nothing. And then when he

(23:22):
holds it up and there's an actualshape there, it's just like, oh
shit, now it's on. SoI was like, Okay, these are
some real good moments here. LikeI said, this is my favorite episode
of the show, but that doesn'tmean very much because the rest of these
episodes have been so poor. Soit's just like this is like a good
trip to the doctors. You stillhave to go to the doctors. But

(23:42):
at least like you didn't have toget a you know, a rectal exam
or something. What is it.Our friend father Malone always says, the
world's tallest midget. Yeah, yeah, there you go. Well okay,
so so let me let me circleback to something that you questioned before,
which again seems like pretty low hangingfruit, but still it was too high

(24:04):
for the world's tallest midget. Inthe first scene where we're in the newsroom,
you know, the office where Coolshakworks with Perry, she comes by.
She mentions, Okay, they're throwingme this party and everyone knows about
it, and Colshack's like, Idon't know about it, and she's like,
no, it's okay. I knowyou don't have to keep the secret.

(24:26):
And he's like, no, Ireally don't know about it. I
actually thought that was really cool becauseI thought the joke was they literally didn't
invite him, but then later onyou find out that they did invite him,
which then not only made it likeless fun to go, oh my
gosh, Kleshak is such an outsiderthat they don't even invite him to this
party, but it also made itwell, no, they did invite him,

(24:51):
and he's insisting either insisting they didn't, or he's insisting they didn't so
he doesn't have to go, whichthen seems weird because it's like, well,
dude, you know, that's kindof throwing cold water on whatever relationship
I'm hoping for here. And thenthe third weird part of all of that
was he doesn't appear to be doinganything in office. He doesn't even have

(25:12):
a story like, oh, I'mwaiting for an important call or I'm meeting
someone, or there's a reason I'mhere. He's literally bouncing a ball off
the window. He's not doing He'snot engaged in anything. So I was
confused by all of that. Ithought, for sure, Okay, this
guy is creepy as fuck, let'snot invite him. So I was really

(25:33):
hoping that it was going to bemore of that social outsider kind of a
thing. I mean, at leastthat plays into his character. If that
would have been cool. But tellme who's the dude at the party though,
the dude who is talking to Perry. Is that a guy? Is
that a regular in the show.Yeah, that's Jane McManus. He is
their roving photographer. Imagine a characterthat's willfully underdeveloped. Yet one episode they

(25:55):
pretend to kill him off and we'resupposed to care about that, which we
don't. Well going to say,are we supposed to like him or is
he like comic relief or what roledoes he play in the show? You
kind to just mentioned all of it, like he's almost a shaggy but not
this endearing and he doesn't need asmuch. The character you're missing that is
good is Alex Niby, which isunfortunate because Eugene Bird is as Alex Niby

(26:21):
is actually one of the better aspectsof this show, and he only was
on what are we say in threeepisodes? And what does he do?
What's his deal? He worked atthe Morgue? Oh okay, okay.
It is funny how there's sort ofthe parallels to the old show, like
he's the John Fiedler. Yeah,he was not Gordy the Ghoul by any

(26:41):
stretch of the imagination. He wasactually helpful to pole Jack. I mean,
I've gone around with Chris about thisas far as is Jane completely superfluous,
and I always come around to thepoint of, yes, I don't
think that he really needs to bethere because he's more like we've talked about
this before as far as is likePerry takes turns with him, as far

(27:03):
as being the damsel in distress,and neither what because they've split essentially what
could be one character into two characters. Neither character is very well developed,
because like that could be one charactertheoretically, right, Mike, I don't
think I'm like really stretching on thatone. But Jane McManus now and here
at the end of the show kindof a post mortem of what we've seen,

(27:26):
Jane McManus and Perry Reid could havejust been one character. Having not
seen the pilot episode of the moremodern version, did it feel like in
that pilot episode, Like, didfeel like, Oh, it's like they
obviously want this character to be aparticular thing, but it just never ended
up happening, like like, oh, clearly he's the goofy friend. But

(27:51):
then oh, I guess not.I mean, was there anything like that
going on? Was Jane even itwas Jane? Even it was Jane even
in the first episode of the show. I'm pretty sure he was there in
that garage when they first meet Colecheck, who's already beat them to the scene,
and he calls them by the wrongname or something like Jane calls Colcheck
by the wrong name. I'm prettysure he was there and somebody for period

(28:15):
to have like an as an allyagainst Colechack. And that's kind of that
same role that he's played. Butthen he's kind of to fill you in
a little bit more, Richard,he's gone back and forth and he's mostly
swung over to Colchack side, whereit's just like, Okay, yeah,
you're saying it's monsters, then it'sprobably monsters. Let's go look at for
the monsters. But he's he doesn'teven have that like jaure, that passion

(28:40):
or anything where he wants to,you know, be the new monster Hunter.
And like you know, he's likehe's nowhere near Mutt from Constantine or
something. He's not like, oh, I want to be the next monster
Hunter. And he's not even thelone gunman from the X Files. He's
just kind of there. He's there. He is definitely there, just like,

(29:00):
oh, by the way, Richard, let's also point out again,
since we're kind of now just talkingabout the show, Vincenzo yet another woefully
underserved character in this version of theshow. But hey, you got to
actually see him in this episode,which I think is the first time in
like three episodes. So yeah,he doesn't like to show up very often.

(29:21):
And that was weird too. Yeah, that was a weird little moment
with him, because again he didn'tIt's like it's like at a loss for
doing anything else. They just havepeople continue to echo the you don't understand
the darkness that Coleshack lives with,you know kind of party line, which

(29:41):
feels like the like that's kind ofwhat Vincenzo was saying, Like whatever he
was saying in this episode, itjust felt like it was just reinforcing this
notion that Coleshack's a dark guy ina dark world and you know, the
end Instinctionally, I'm like out inthe other show, Vincenzo was the you

(30:03):
know Nemesis antagonist. You know,he wasn't the monster, but he was
the real wife person saying Coleshack,you're wrong. And then up Dike was
like, I'm like, oh sois McManus, is James and Gannus sort
of was he starting out like theup Dike or I guess not, or
he's not even the marml Stne Speakingof Monique, a certain someone may have

(30:29):
sent us a certain signed picture bya certain Monique marmal scene. Well you
know you you you guys have anadmirer, you know out of the podcast
first doubted the Warner Brothers lot.Just just put it on the pile with
all the other gifts you get fromyour listeners. Boy, that is a

(30:49):
pile of what. Be careful,Chris, you might die under the pile.
The pile lapse on me. Youknow. I think the thing about
this show is, you know,we've had some interviews where we've talked to
folks like Frank spot Bets, likeEugene Bird. Their hearts were in the

(31:12):
right places, but it just itfailed in spite of I mean, look,
it was a good idea, butat the same time, I still
kind of question remaking a show thatwas essentially made a lot better twenty years
after it came out. Anyways,I think ABC executives went, Okay,

(31:33):
we own this show called The nightStalker, it's one of our properties.
And recently a very very huge,humandously popular show called The X Files was
on TV. So maybe there's away to meld those two. But the
problem being anyone tuning in for Thenight Stalker isn't going to get that because

(31:57):
there's no humor, no charm,no fun. And then anyone turning in
for The X Files is not goingto get that either, because they're getting
a warmed over substitute. You endup. I mean, I tell you,
I feel Frank Spotts's pain. Ilisten to that interview and I'm like,
yeah, you know, he hadan original idea that's like, well,

(32:20):
maybe this is a way you reallycan can serve as the character and
the fans of the old show,but updated a little bit. And I
think ABC was just like, no, your X Files guy, just give
us, Please bring your X Filescompatriots in with you to write this episode.
Vince Gilligan is credited as a writerin this episode, and we all
know Vince Gilligan is a good writer. It's it's a disappointment. And look,

(32:44):
I know you go on the coldCheck Facebook pages or anywhere where they
talk about the show, and thisshow gets piled upon constantly, almost I
wouldn't say unnecessarily because some of itis deserved, but this show gets piled
upon and some of it is deserved. But at the same time, a

(33:05):
lot of those folks didn't even watchit. We watched it. We watched
it like we watched Suffer for oursuffer my children. But it's it's not
that bad. It's really not It'sjust not much of anything. To be
perfectly honest, I will say onething, and I'd love to hear your
opinions on this, though. Ithought the look of the show was really

(33:30):
ugly, Like I just thought,what is going on? It's like super
like really brightly lit and then alsoextremely dark, Like it was almost physically
uncomfortable to watch, just in termsof like I mean, the X Files
was a beautiful show. I evenliked the look of the original Nightstocker TV

(33:51):
show. This was kind of unpleasantto look at. And I think,
I mean, I'm gonna say maybethat was because they just they wanted it
to be jarring and jagged and handheld, and but I didn't love to look
at the show. What about you, guys, I can totally see what
you're saying. As far as Imean, this episode in particular was very
very stark, and the lighting inPaul's place was really harsh. I kind

(34:20):
of thought that worked in service ofit. But as far as the stuff
outside of Paul's place, and Idon't mean outside of his actual house,
but I'm talking about like the worldat large. Yeah, it looks like
warmed over garbage. And here's theother thing about this show, right,
I mean we have to talk aboutwhen this show came out. Show came
out in two thousand and six.And look, Richard, I mean you
mentioned The X Files, and TheXiles is a beautiful show until it went

(34:44):
to LA and left Vancouver, andonce it left Vancouver, the X Files
became similarly drabbed to this show.And this show. It feels like if
you showed the show to someone andasked them when do you think this came
out? I think someone would beable to put it within a couple of
years of when the show aired,because it has that mid two thousands original

(35:07):
CSI feel to it. You knowwhat, Yes, that's what it looks
like. It looks like CSI likeshitty CSI. Yeah, And yeah,
camera movement for no reason, justto you know, keep things interesting quote
unquote. I honestly try to consciouslyremind myself watching this episode. I'm like,

(35:28):
well, don't compare it to theoriginal, because obviously it is not
that. But what if you justwere changing channels and landed on this show.
What would you get from it?And I think that's when I arrived
at that place of Wow, thisis just pretty grim. This is just
like really unpleasant. You know,poor Reggie Lee, who by the way,
was on Grim when I worked onGrim. So I was like,

(35:50):
oh my god, there's Reggie youknow ten, you know, five years
before, seven years before Grim.Look, he got work. So I
was so happy to see him andso disturbed to literally watch him bleed out
right in front of America. It'slike, oh fuck, and then turn
into a monster. Maybe to yourpoint from earlier, Richard, that is

(36:12):
where he comes out and is tryingto implicate that Paul murdered Colcheck's wife.
So you were absolutely right, thereis that moment in there of the implication.
But yeah, Colcheck never seems togo off. Yeah right, Okay.
I thought it was crazy. He'slike he came back with blood on

(36:35):
him and he yeah, okay.And what it seems like is that the
old man or whatever this creature isthat has been tormenting Paul, like we
all like we're initially we're supposed tothink, oh, it's all about his
head and then we think, oh, well, maybe there's a creature.
And then we think again, okay, maybe it's in his head. And
then when Kim comes out and he'slike, yeah, it's all you know,

(37:00):
he tried to kill your wife orblah blah blah, then it's like,
okay, now he's is that reallyhim? Is that something else?
What's going on? Is he tryingto use colcheck in order to get him
to murder Paul? And basically yeah, that's how it goes, because then
Parry shows up. And when Perryshows up, I was just like,

(37:20):
well, that's really weird. Howdid she know where colcheck was? And
then she gives this excuse of ohI traced a call, and it's like
okay, But then when she comesinto the apartment or into the house,
I'm just like, what the fuckare you doing? Get the fuck out
of there. And they're talking soloud in that front room. I'm like,
what are you doing? I thoughtthe exact same thing. I'm like,
what is going on? And notonly that, but why is he

(37:44):
not saying why is he not crazed? Why is he not like there is
a man in the next room whomurdered my wife? I have found a
man who killed my wife and I'mgoing to go kill him and Perry's like,
no, no, don't do it. Like I was expecting some of
that. Then I'm like, well, maybe I misheard it. Maybe I
was just making that up thinking that'swhat I wish was happening. It was

(38:06):
confusing. That's Stewart Townsend. Youcannot get a rise out of Stewart Townsend.
He was if he was ever investedin this show, he was definitely
not. By this point. I'venever seen him even raise his voice.
You know, he's just the deadestand yeah picked up. It was funny
at the end when when he grabbedhim and he did the rigs line from

(38:29):
a lethal weapon, He's like,you think you're all man down there,
let's go see him together. That'sthe only time I've seen him emotional in
this whole thing. So I wasjust like, wow, that's very surprising.
So I think maybe that also helpedkind of, you know, push
the needle up a little bit forme. And when it came to this
episode, like oh oh shit,he's actually emotional, he's actually going to

(38:49):
do something. He's defending Perry.Wow, this is this is fantastic and
he manages to murder this guy.Yeah, it doesn't. And that is
what you want. I mean,look, you you want this guy to
be killed. Yeah, there's nopart of it. It's just well,
no, just arrest him. Imean, it was very satisfying, horribly
enough to watch Cole Shack, youknow, do what you think is throwing

(39:13):
him to the lions essentially right,and and yet still unclear how that guy
then ultimately died unless he just hitthe wall really hard, and and and
then unclear how we're supposed to feelabout Coleshack, his wife's murder, and
his relationship with Perry and his hallucination. So a lot of things kind of

(39:37):
left on the table, which Idon't know. Maybe the next maybe those
two scripts, uh you know,or the the reconfigured one will explain what
do you think I'm not hold mybreath. Yeah, I wouldn't hold your
breath because the likelihood is you're notgoing to get a satisfying conclusion, which

(39:59):
I they concluded it right as faras what with this episode, No,
the other episode like the one wordslike to the Sea or two parter right
in the middle of the season,which again it's like what the fuck are
you guys doing? I thought thatthey had already wrapped that up. Yeah,
the Source Part one in part two, episode six and seven wraps what

(40:20):
story up. They pretty much triedto so we had a little bit of
that mythology the whole like he's gotthis weird mark on his wrist, and
so did his wife, and sodid these other people, YadA YadA,
And they bring that up in thefirst episode, I think a little in
the second, more in the third, maybe in the fourth they just kind

(40:42):
of throw it on, and thenthe episode six and seven they really go
all in on mythology, and thenafter that we don't hear about it really.
I think there was a mention ofit what in nine Chris. It
seemed like there was just a realquick throwaway kind of thing. But yeah,
they pretty much they didn't wrap upthe mythology, but they just were

(41:04):
like, here's some mythology. Nowwe're going to go away from it,
and now we're back to Monster ofthe Week. The mythology, I mean,
look in the X Files, it'sthere until it's not, and then
but it always feels like it's stillunderneath everything in this show. It's almost
like they forgot about it, Likeyou said, like, did they ever
help anyone in this show? Likedoes he ever? Like in The X
Files, they ultimately were kind oftheoretically helping people like Okay, well we've

(41:30):
solved the weird murders in this town, you know, so you kind of
were they were called into a caseand then they solved it. I mean,
does it ever feel like they weredoing it on this show? Was
that ever like a structure of anepisode? Thanks fack, you help something?
Gosh? Usually they were like adaily and then Dallas short when it
came to so many of these cases. I think they helped apprehend some people,

(41:54):
like I'm thinking of burning Man,which was a very generic CSI of
yeah, and like the five peopleyou meet in Hell, like, but
you never get that warm, fuzzyfeeling of like this person's going to go
off and live a wonderful life nowthat these people have solved this mystery,
right right, I mean, atleast in the old Colfax show, it

(42:16):
was never warm and fuzzy, butyou're at least like, wow, okay,
so, I mean I guess youknow, the Moss Monster is not
going to kill anyone more that one'sdone with. Yeah, and the other
problem, you know, I kindof misspoke when I said, you know,
Monster the Week, because that wasthe thing with this show was there's
no monsters, you know, inthis episode is typical of that as far

(42:37):
as you know, I think Timelesswas the last time we saw a really
like a halfway decent monster, andthat was just basically a rip off of
the night Strangler again, where itwas just like, oh, this person
comes out every thirty five years andneeds to feed. So it's like,
okay, great, we've seen that. You know, Jeepers, creepers,

(43:00):
yeah, Victor Toombs, yeah,oh yeah, almost like a show that
did it better exactly. Again,I think at the end of the day
with this show, the thing thatI really come away from this show with
is a just general feeling of Iwant to watch The X Files. I
essentially watch an episode of The XFiles every time I watched an episode of

(43:21):
this to kind of remind myself ofwhat this could have been. And then
I realized that ultimately at the endof the day, we kind of,
in my mind, should have silencedsome of the people that were like,
this is fucking garbage. It's notreally it's just just watch the original show,
because it is the original show isbetter. But also the other thing

(43:47):
is, do not pretend that theoriginal show is perfect, because if you're
going to say how bad this showis, you also kind of have to
grapple with the fact that the originalshow has a lot of nostalgia baked into
it, and a lot of peopleare unwilling too. They're just like,
well, the original show is greatand the new show is garbage. They're

(44:07):
still sounding chamber. Everyone agree withme. Yes, yes, yes,
yes, that's kind of what itfeels like. Yeah, I totally agree.
But I will say that I thinkpart of that ceiling is engendered by
the fact that the original show tradedso much on charm and humor and just

(44:27):
the charm of Darren McGavin, sothat it's easy to remember it fondly,
you know, because it's like someoneit's like, oh, that was my
favorite uncle, and then this waslike a really scary substitute teacher who wants
to murder you. Oh no,I completely agree. I mean the thing
about the original show that is whyit was so successful is because Darren McGavin

(44:52):
is so charismatic. Look at whySupernatural has been on the air for thirteen
seasons. Look at why The XFiles has had two reboots. It's because
you have people in the roles thatmatter, that are charismatic, that people
can get behind, that people careabout and like. Look at shows like
I Don't Know Anything, Jesus Christ, Stranger Things, any show that people

(45:14):
watch, they like the characters becausethe people in the roles are charismatic and
good at what they do. I'mnot saying Stewart Town's in as bad as
what he had, what he does, or Gabriel Union. I'm just saying
they aren't in this show, andthat's a bummer because it could have been
like the original show. They couldhave really played up the charismatic nature of

(45:35):
Cold Check as opposed to making him, like you said, Richard, mister
dark and gloomy all the time.Well yeah, and this is you know,
obviously me arguing my taste. Butwhen you hang your hat on dark,
existential nealism and horror, I mean, I actually think that's a pretty
you know, that's a pretty narrowtarget to hit. And then even when

(45:55):
you hit it dead on, whatyou've achieved is pretty cold, which is
a flavor. And that's you know, you don't. Not everything has to
be you know, aspirational and lifeaffirming. But that's a that's a hard
thing to hit over and over andover again and feel like you're you're adding
up to something because I think instinctuallypeople are watching a TV show looking for

(46:20):
a long term storytelling and and Aand A part of that long term storytelling
being the development of relationships that youget caught up in and have a stake
in those relationships succeeding. And that'swhat gives you tension. Oh no,
that these people might break up orthey might die or whatever. You and
that's easier to achieve in a way. So I think another thing you had

(46:44):
with this show is is the resultof the studio wants one thing, that
network wants another thing, that peopleactually doing the show want another thing,
and then none of those things getachieved. And what you're watching is what
is the levers? You know,what got left behind, the stuff that
was so unobjectionable or that no oneyou just had the energy to fight.

(47:08):
Okay, here's what's left. Andwe've all seen shows like that, and
I think this is one of them, and it's it's like no one's fault
because the studio didn't want to ruinthis show. They wanted a hit so
to the network, so they allthought they were doing the right thing.
Yeah, it's that old what successhas many fathers and failure has none?

(47:31):
Or how's that go? You knowwhat? I'd like to point out that
I was actually the one who gaveJason Vorhees his mask set eight different people
in the documentary about the series.But yet, but yet, no one
will claim responsibility for Jason Takes Manhattanbeing filmed in Vancouver. So yeah,
it's that same shit. It's likeyou said, no one wants to take

(47:53):
responsibility for this show being a failure. And I'm not blaming Frank Spotnitz,
but someone should shoulder some of theblame other than just saying it's the studios
invisible men on the other side ofan invisible mirror or like a two like
a one way mirror. You know, it's it's at that end. Look,
I mean, Richard, you work, you work in the industry,
so you know that it's a convenientthing to blame. And honestly, a

(48:15):
lot of people probably blame it fortheir own inadequacy's been being able to craft
a worthwhile story to tell. Whatnone of us have spent five minutes doing
on this show is talking about whata shit writer Jim Skill again is because
you know he isn't He did goodwork before this, he did good work
after it, So that's part ofwhat you factor in. And again it's

(48:36):
personal taste. But it's like,all right, well, you know Frank
Spott, and it's did some goodwork before this, he did some good
work after this. So we're goingto assume he might not have been the
number one reason that this was notsuccessful, either financially, ratings wise,
or even creatively. And I thinkobviously he kind of admitted it. He
would be like, look, thiswas not what I've wanted. So in

(49:00):
a way he's saying, you know, my aspirations were high, and this
time we didn't get it. I'vebeen a part of a lot of those.
Well the thing is, I mean, like we could even tide us
into something that Mike, you andI talk about on another podcast, the
twilight Zone nineteen eighty five, andwe did those bonuses about the twenty nineteen

(49:21):
Twilight Zone. You have Glen Morganon there, who wrote for the X
Files. He wrote a lot ofreally great X Files episodes, and then
he goes on and writes some terribleTwilight Zone twenty nineteen episodes. And again
we know he's a good writer,we've seen him write other things. Well,
it's just these weird missteps in thisshow. It just seems to be

(49:43):
misstep after misstep after misstep. There'snever a time where there was a slowing
of momentum with the missteps. Itseems that the missteps just continued and never
stopped. They picked up. Thesame thing happens to who I feel is
you know, probably one of thegreat this writers of the twenty first century,
which is Max Landis. You know, he constantly is getting undermined by

(50:04):
the studio. Yeah, and sexuallysexually assaulting women as well. But hey,
you know what, no big deal, It's okay. On a podcast
I recorded yesterday, I got tocalled Brian Singer child rapists. So we're
just keeping with the theme of let'sjust burn it all down, light it
on fire, and watch it burn. Wow. Wow, full circle.
Richard had him not on this episode, by the way, he wants to

(50:29):
still work in Hollywood when we're Chrisand Mike, on the other hand,
never going to work in Hollywood.You know it is someone someone has been
calling around impersonating me on podcasts.So maybe this will turn out to be
one of those I will say atthe trial and and and maybe helicopter would
land on you. Oh god,all the charges will be dropped mysteriously,

(50:49):
just like in the Kevin Spacey trialexactly. Oh Jesus, oh my god.
Non depressed. I'm more depressed thanI was watching What's the frequency called
back? So since this is ourlast and I know that we're going to
talk again about the scripts and theX Files episode, but I want because
I've already kind of given mine,I want to know what you're kind of

(51:10):
parting post mortem. Final thought,Jerry Springer's style is on Night Stalker two.
First off, it was not livekid, so the test came back.
I'm happy about that, But that'sMaury not okay what she want him
and his chicken chechny. So twothousand and five Cold Check is not as

(51:35):
bad as people make it out tobe, but it's not good. And
of all the episodes, I stillstand by this being the best standalone episode
I would I would be inclined toagree with you. Wow, I feel
lucky that it's the only one Iwatched. Yeah, and be good to
each other. Now, Okay,maybe a little too little, too on

(51:58):
the nose. Let's get onto theimportant stuff. When do I get to
come back and talk about Darren mccavinand one of those episodes you get to
come back next month when we're backto the original run of Colchak from nineteen
seventy four, we're gonna be talkingabout what is it? The Nightly Murders.
So I'm very excited to have youback and it will be great.

(52:19):
So until then, Richard, what'sbeen keeping you busy lately? Season two
of Titans? We are halfway throughfilming, we're breaking the last handful of
episodes, and we're ready to comeback at you. I believe in September
on DCU Universe subscription only in theUnited States, and it's on Netflix everywhere

(52:42):
else Canada and beyond. So,yeah, Titans is taken up my days.
And let's not forget your show wasnot canceled after one season. Unfortunately
for one show. Geez, whatthe hell was I'm going to find out
what happened because I think there isa story we're not hearing. No one

(53:04):
well, come on, I mean, how you premiere a show and then
you announced that you've canceled it beforethe other episodes of like on what planet
does that help you as a network? The planet of DC, the DC
Universe planet is bizarre, it's weird, it's weird. It got great reviews.
I heard it, it looked great, and then I heard it was

(53:28):
canceled. So there you go,all kind of in the same day.
Yeah, pretty much, anyway,That's what I'm doing. And uh,
yeah, do Patrol doing well?Though? So there you go, and
your your show seems to be doingwell. Tigans is doing well, I
mean in a weird way. Itmight be, you know, one of
the one of the more talked aboutshows I've ever worked on, considering that,

(53:52):
you know, you can only watchit if you pay for it,
and even then it only shows uplike on your miwave oven or something.
God damn this guy. He's gothis own shovel and is burying his own
show. What's going on here?I can watch it on my t I
eighty three. Right, It's agreat show if you can manage to see
it. But people just seem tobe liking it, so yeah, and
uh, and second season. Thisis no secret. We meet and I

(54:15):
wrote the episode super Boy and Cryptonice. So yeah, I get ready
for some boy dog action Boy.I'm gonna be watching a video about that
later tonight. So I think that'sa special Tablets still on the air,
You're talking about an American hero andChris. What is keeping you busy these

(54:37):
days, sir? Everything and nothing. At the same time, I'm doing
a little podcast called the Culture Castwhere you can find me talking about movies
with some friends of mine. Mike'son there. I need a Richard on
there at some point. I thinkI think it would be beneficial. Maybe
have him watch something good for once. I don't know, so he So

(54:58):
Richard doesn't think that I hate you'recoming with us and watching Culture. I'm
dragging a mean one. I thinkwe all agree on that. Man.
Yeah, there is a good CopBad Cop five on the show. There
is, and I prefer I don'tprefer bad cop. I prefer good cop,
kinky cop. So my my handcuffshave feathers on them. They're like

(55:20):
fur line. But now you canfind me on the Culture Cast. Mike
and I also do another podcast withour friend father Malone, where we talk
about twilight Zone nineteen eighty five.That is Dreams for Sale. You can
find that at twilight Zone eighty fivedot com. And then I do a
little Tales from the Crypt podcast calledChronicles from the Crypt, and that is
over at Chronicles FTC dot com.Where can people find you, Mike when

(55:45):
you're not here? I do apodcast called The Projection Booth, which you
can find out Projection Booth podcast dotcom. And every once in a while
I let Chris on the show,though I always wonder why, And don't
forget guys, just so all youroriginal col checks are aware. Two thousand
and five is done. That worksfor me. If you look into the

(56:07):
darkness long enough your eyes adjust,can you start to see that there are
evils in the dark. But inscene you learn a terrible truth that you
have not found these evils at all, but rather they have found you.

(56:51):
Try not to scream any stream timesand the scream and you stand start music.

(57:51):
But you said, trying to discussslid comet to you said the suns
of you. You are saying,what's the thing that you can unders to

(59:17):
tell to sad was the shows?You are saying, stop. You can

(59:54):
understand it said, I can understand, you can stand. I can't understand.

(01:00:16):
I'm gonna understand.