August 14, 2025 • 14 mins
Aug. 14, 2025- The Hochul administration is in the process of crafting a plan to guide the conservation of endangered species and habitats for the next decade. We unpack the significance of this plan and what might be missing with Chris Amato, conservation director and counsel for Protect the Adirondacks.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
This summer, state environmental officials announced they're seeking public input
on an updated State Wildlife Action Plan, which is supposed
to guide New York's approach to its list of species
of greatest conservation need to discuss what the Hope administration
is proposing for the next decade. We're joined on the
Capitol press room by Chris Amato, Conservation Director and Council
(00:24):
for Protect the Adironducks. Welcome back to the show, Chris,
and thanks for joining us in the studio.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
David. It's a pleasure to be be back. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
So updating the Wildlife Action Plan is necessary for accessing
federal dollars, but how substantive is the plan as well
as the process that state environmental officials go through to
come up with this comprehensive list that's supposed to be
in effect firm twenty twenty five until twenty thirty five.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
It's an extremely vital and crucial plan because it's essentially
a blueprint for how the state over the next ten
years is going to try to maintain biodiversity in New
York State. And it's a multi step process that requires
a tremendous amount of work, and hats off to DEEC
(01:12):
the Department of Environmental Conservation for preparing this draft State
Wildlife Action Plan. Because it is a massive undertaking, the
state has to go through a very lengthy science spased
process to identify the species in the state. This is fish, wildlife,
(01:35):
you know, mammals, birds, insects. Has to look at all
of this wide range of species and identify which ones
are at risk in the state of simply disappearing from
New York State, and that in and of itself is
quite an undertaking. Beyond that, they have to go to
the next step and identify for the species that are
(01:59):
determined to be at risk, they have to figure out
what are the threats, what is causing this species to
go into a decline in the state. And then thirdly,
the plan has to identify recommended steps how are we
going to try to reverse this negative trend in this
species survivability. So it is an incredibly lengthy process. It
(02:25):
requires an enormous amount of work. DC Fish and Wildlife
staff have done an absolutely tremendous job. There are five
hundred and seventy species of fish and wildlife that are
listed as species of greatest conservation need in New York State.
In this draft plan, and that just reflects the amount
(02:48):
of work that has been put into this by the
DEC staff. They've done a tremendous job.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
And we can get into the so called species of
greatest conservation need as well as the high priority species
of greatest conservation needs. But first, when it comes to
those potential conservation actions that the state is recommending here,
do you feel like it is meaningful steps? Because maybe
(03:15):
I'm a little cynical, but sometimes we'll get government officials
that work within a certain blueprint, a certain framework of
what is possible politically or popular. Is this something that
is like that. Should I be cynical about this? Or
is this a blue sky here are all the things
we would like to do type of plan.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I don't think there's need to be cynical about this.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
I think it's an absolutely critical plan and it really
is substantive. It really is the blueprint for how the
state is going to manage at risk species for the
next ten years. And the key to that is it
unlocks funding from the federal government which can be used
to collect needed scientific information about the status of the species.
(04:03):
It can help fund measures to ensure their continued conservation
and survival, and so from that perspective, it's absolutely a
very important plan to have in place. I would also
point out that one of the reasons it's so crucial
is that, in contrast to game species that are the
(04:26):
popular targets for hunters and trappers or for sport fish
for fishermen, those programs for those species are very well
funded by the federal government. So, for example, over the
last ten year period, the DC received somewhere in the
neighborhood of about fifteen million dollars from the federal government
for these game species for maintenance and conservation of the
(04:49):
game species. By way of contrast, for non game species,
in other words, under this program, the state Wildlife gram program,
the state received about one million dollars, so comparatively a
small amount of funding for non game species conservation, but
(05:10):
nevertheless absolutely critical because it is money that will go
to trying to conserve the biodiversity of the state's fish
and wildlife.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
So the species list appendix that is out is fifty
five pages long, with a whole bunch of flies, butterflies, beetles,
and much larger animals. How comprehensive do you think this
list is? And are there any meaningful omissions.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
It's a very comprehensive list, David and I do think
it's it's just a tribute to the amount of work
that has been put into it. I would say though,
that we were disappointed with some aspects of the list.
Conspicuous by their absence are wolves, cougar, and Canada links.
(06:03):
All three of these species are native to New York State,
were the subject of eradication campaigns, or alternatively, were just
hunted and trapped out of existence, and we believe that
it is essential that they be included on Species of
(06:24):
Greatest Conservation.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Need for a couple of reasons.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
One is that there is a very very strong likelihood
that at least some of these species can naturally re
establish populations in New York State. And for example, over
the last since two thousand and one, there's been three
documented instances of wild wolves from other parts of the
(06:50):
country or from Canada coming into New York State. Unfortunately,
the reason we know this is because they were shot
and killed by hunters, which is just the function that
in New York coyotes are very large. The Eastern coyote
(07:11):
is actually a hybrid between wolves and western coyotes, and
they're much larger, and so it's very easy for a
hunter to mistake a wolf for just a large coyote,
particularly if they're not expecting to encounter a wolf in
the wild. So one of the reasons that we think
(07:31):
wolves should be added to the list of species of
Greatest Conservation Need is that, you know, there is documented
presence of wolves migrating into the state, and when they
do come into the state, there needs to be some
extra level of protection. And one of the things that
(07:51):
the funding from the State Wildlife Grant program can be
used for is to assess the status of the wolves
of the species that is on the list. And that's
one of the big challenges that we have. There is
very little information on what the status of wolves in
New York State actually is. Nobody really knows. The information
(08:15):
that we have is limited because it's been limited to
those circumstances where somebody kills an animal, a large canid,
and for one reason or another they turn it in
and say, hey, you know, this might be a wolf.
This doesn't look like a coyo to me, and then
there's a DNA analysis performed which confirms it in fact,
(08:35):
it is a wild wolf, and the most recent incident
occurred in twenty twenty one near Cooperstown and the hunter
that's exactly what happened. The hunter shot the wolf, looked
at it when he got close, realized, wow, this doesn't
look like a coyote to me, and he voluntarily contacted
(08:57):
the DEEC and DNA analysis show that this wolf had
actually migrated from the Great Lakes. So this is happening,
And the problem is DEC currently really doesn't have the
resources to do the type of monitoring and research that
(09:18):
is really needed to determine how many wolves there really
are in the state and where are they well.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Whether it's that example you bring up about the wolf
that was killed in the Cooperstown area or the exclusion
of wolves from this list, it seems like state environmental
officials are reticent to embrace the idea of wolves either
being in New York or being worthy of protection. What
(09:45):
seems to be the reason for this approach.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Well, I disagree with that characterization. I think DEEC has,
particularly since the Cooperstown wolf was killed, DC has taken
a number of very important steps. They have, for example,
placed information on their website that suggests that hunters may
(10:13):
encounter wolves in the state. That's very big because the
first step is education so that hunters, if they see
a large canaid, they're not automatically going to assume it's
just a big coyote. So even that moment of pause
where a hunter may say to himself, hey, maybe this
is a wolf.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
That's very valuable.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
The other thing is that they have posted information about
how to tell a wolf from a coyote in the wild,
and again that's part of the educational effort that the
DC is doing. They are also asking hunters to voluntarily
submit parts of large canids that they take so that
(10:57):
DC can then send that into for DNA analysis, because
that is a way to sort of figure out what
is the presence of wolves or wolf coyote hybrids in
the state, and what is the genetic makeup of this population.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Okay, then if environmental officials do care about this population
and do want to protect it, what's the reason to
omit it? Is there some downside to including it and
maybe they don't really need to be here. What would
be the rationale from the DC?
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Well, this is where we sort of part ways with
the DC.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Their view, as stated in the.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Draft Wildlife Action Plan, is that the reason they have
not included large carnivores like wolves, cougars, and Canada links
is that they would prefer to focus their efforts on
species that they know are in the state and they
are at risk. I think that's, you know, a very reasonable,
(12:00):
understandable approach to take, but we think it sends the
wrong message. We think there should be an inclusion of
these other large carnivores for a number of reasons. I mean,
first and foremost, it's kind of like a chicken and
egg situation where DC is saying, look, we don't have
(12:23):
the information to enable us to say, yes, wolves are
present in the state at such and such population, or
there's this many wolves, or this is where they are,
or they're breeding. They're not breeding. The problem is that
if you use that as a justification for not placing
them on the list of species of Greatest Conservation need,
(12:46):
then you're never going to get that information because one
of the things that this funding can be used for
is to collect that exact type of information, like how
many of these animals are in the state, what is
their status, Are they healthy, are they breeding, are they
in a particular part of the state, or are they
(13:07):
dispersed throughout. None of that information is available right now,
and you know that's why we are respectfully disagreeing with
the dec on whether or not these animals should be
included on the list.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Well, if listeners want to comment on the list, they
have until September twentieth, and they can do so by
email at NYSWAP twenty twenty five at DEEC dot NY
dot gov. We've been speaking with Chris Amato. They're the
conservation director and Council for Protect the Adirondics. Chris, thanks
for visiting us in the studio.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Thank you so much for having me
Speaker 1 (13:52):
And for more Capital Pressroom content, visit Capitol Pressroom dot
org or wherever you download your favorite podcasts.
This summer, state environmental officials announced they're seeking public input
on an updated State Wildlife Action Plan, which is supposed
to guide New York's approach to its list of species
of greatest conservation need to discuss what the Hope administration
is proposing for the next decade. We're joined on the
Capitol press room by Chris Amato, Conservation Director and Council
(00:24):
for Protect the Adironducks. Welcome back to the show, Chris,
and thanks for joining us in the studio.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
David. It's a pleasure to be be back. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
So updating the Wildlife Action Plan is necessary for accessing
federal dollars, but how substantive is the plan as well
as the process that state environmental officials go through to
come up with this comprehensive list that's supposed to be
in effect firm twenty twenty five until twenty thirty five.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
It's an extremely vital and crucial plan because it's essentially
a blueprint for how the state over the next ten
years is going to try to maintain biodiversity in New
York State. And it's a multi step process that requires
a tremendous amount of work, and hats off to DEEC
(01:12):
the Department of Environmental Conservation for preparing this draft State
Wildlife Action Plan. Because it is a massive undertaking, the
state has to go through a very lengthy science spased
process to identify the species in the state. This is fish, wildlife,
(01:35):
you know, mammals, birds, insects. Has to look at all
of this wide range of species and identify which ones
are at risk in the state of simply disappearing from
New York State, and that in and of itself is
quite an undertaking. Beyond that, they have to go to
the next step and identify for the species that are
(01:59):
determined to be at risk, they have to figure out
what are the threats, what is causing this species to
go into a decline in the state. And then thirdly,
the plan has to identify recommended steps how are we
going to try to reverse this negative trend in this
species survivability. So it is an incredibly lengthy process. It
(02:25):
requires an enormous amount of work. DC Fish and Wildlife
staff have done an absolutely tremendous job. There are five
hundred and seventy species of fish and wildlife that are
listed as species of greatest conservation need in New York State.
In this draft plan, and that just reflects the amount
(02:48):
of work that has been put into this by the
DEC staff. They've done a tremendous job.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
And we can get into the so called species of
greatest conservation need as well as the high priority species
of greatest conservation needs. But first, when it comes to
those potential conservation actions that the state is recommending here,
do you feel like it is meaningful steps? Because maybe
(03:15):
I'm a little cynical, but sometimes we'll get government officials
that work within a certain blueprint, a certain framework of
what is possible politically or popular. Is this something that
is like that. Should I be cynical about this? Or
is this a blue sky here are all the things
we would like to do type of plan.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I don't think there's need to be cynical about this.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
I think it's an absolutely critical plan and it really
is substantive. It really is the blueprint for how the
state is going to manage at risk species for the
next ten years. And the key to that is it
unlocks funding from the federal government which can be used
to collect needed scientific information about the status of the species.
(04:03):
It can help fund measures to ensure their continued conservation
and survival, and so from that perspective, it's absolutely a
very important plan to have in place. I would also
point out that one of the reasons it's so crucial
is that, in contrast to game species that are the
(04:26):
popular targets for hunters and trappers or for sport fish
for fishermen, those programs for those species are very well
funded by the federal government. So, for example, over the
last ten year period, the DC received somewhere in the
neighborhood of about fifteen million dollars from the federal government
for these game species for maintenance and conservation of the
(04:49):
game species. By way of contrast, for non game species,
in other words, under this program, the state Wildlife gram program,
the state received about one million dollars, so comparatively a
small amount of funding for non game species conservation, but
(05:10):
nevertheless absolutely critical because it is money that will go
to trying to conserve the biodiversity of the state's fish
and wildlife.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
So the species list appendix that is out is fifty
five pages long, with a whole bunch of flies, butterflies, beetles,
and much larger animals. How comprehensive do you think this
list is? And are there any meaningful omissions.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
It's a very comprehensive list, David and I do think
it's it's just a tribute to the amount of work
that has been put into it. I would say though,
that we were disappointed with some aspects of the list.
Conspicuous by their absence are wolves, cougar, and Canada links.
(06:03):
All three of these species are native to New York State,
were the subject of eradication campaigns, or alternatively, were just
hunted and trapped out of existence, and we believe that
it is essential that they be included on Species of
(06:24):
Greatest Conservation.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Need for a couple of reasons.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
One is that there is a very very strong likelihood
that at least some of these species can naturally re
establish populations in New York State. And for example, over
the last since two thousand and one, there's been three
documented instances of wild wolves from other parts of the
(06:50):
country or from Canada coming into New York State. Unfortunately,
the reason we know this is because they were shot
and killed by hunters, which is just the function that
in New York coyotes are very large. The Eastern coyote
(07:11):
is actually a hybrid between wolves and western coyotes, and
they're much larger, and so it's very easy for a
hunter to mistake a wolf for just a large coyote,
particularly if they're not expecting to encounter a wolf in
the wild. So one of the reasons that we think
(07:31):
wolves should be added to the list of species of
Greatest Conservation Need is that, you know, there is documented
presence of wolves migrating into the state, and when they
do come into the state, there needs to be some
extra level of protection. And one of the things that
(07:51):
the funding from the State Wildlife Grant program can be
used for is to assess the status of the wolves
of the species that is on the list. And that's
one of the big challenges that we have. There is
very little information on what the status of wolves in
New York State actually is. Nobody really knows. The information
(08:15):
that we have is limited because it's been limited to
those circumstances where somebody kills an animal, a large canid,
and for one reason or another they turn it in
and say, hey, you know, this might be a wolf.
This doesn't look like a coyo to me, and then
there's a DNA analysis performed which confirms it in fact,
(08:35):
it is a wild wolf, and the most recent incident
occurred in twenty twenty one near Cooperstown and the hunter
that's exactly what happened. The hunter shot the wolf, looked
at it when he got close, realized, wow, this doesn't
look like a coyote to me, and he voluntarily contacted
(08:57):
the DEEC and DNA analysis show that this wolf had
actually migrated from the Great Lakes. So this is happening,
And the problem is DEC currently really doesn't have the
resources to do the type of monitoring and research that
(09:18):
is really needed to determine how many wolves there really
are in the state and where are they well.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Whether it's that example you bring up about the wolf
that was killed in the Cooperstown area or the exclusion
of wolves from this list, it seems like state environmental
officials are reticent to embrace the idea of wolves either
being in New York or being worthy of protection. What
(09:45):
seems to be the reason for this approach.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Well, I disagree with that characterization. I think DEEC has,
particularly since the Cooperstown wolf was killed, DC has taken
a number of very important steps. They have, for example,
placed information on their website that suggests that hunters may
(10:13):
encounter wolves in the state. That's very big because the
first step is education so that hunters, if they see
a large canaid, they're not automatically going to assume it's
just a big coyote. So even that moment of pause
where a hunter may say to himself, hey, maybe this
is a wolf.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
That's very valuable.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
The other thing is that they have posted information about
how to tell a wolf from a coyote in the wild,
and again that's part of the educational effort that the
DC is doing. They are also asking hunters to voluntarily
submit parts of large canids that they take so that
(10:57):
DC can then send that into for DNA analysis, because
that is a way to sort of figure out what
is the presence of wolves or wolf coyote hybrids in
the state, and what is the genetic makeup of this population.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Okay, then if environmental officials do care about this population
and do want to protect it, what's the reason to
omit it? Is there some downside to including it and
maybe they don't really need to be here. What would
be the rationale from the DC?
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Well, this is where we sort of part ways with
the DC.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Their view, as stated in the.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Draft Wildlife Action Plan, is that the reason they have
not included large carnivores like wolves, cougars, and Canada links
is that they would prefer to focus their efforts on
species that they know are in the state and they
are at risk. I think that's, you know, a very reasonable,
(12:00):
understandable approach to take, but we think it sends the
wrong message. We think there should be an inclusion of
these other large carnivores for a number of reasons. I mean,
first and foremost, it's kind of like a chicken and
egg situation where DC is saying, look, we don't have
(12:23):
the information to enable us to say, yes, wolves are
present in the state at such and such population, or
there's this many wolves, or this is where they are,
or they're breeding. They're not breeding. The problem is that
if you use that as a justification for not placing
them on the list of species of Greatest Conservation need,
(12:46):
then you're never going to get that information because one
of the things that this funding can be used for
is to collect that exact type of information, like how
many of these animals are in the state, what is
their status, Are they healthy, are they breeding, are they
in a particular part of the state, or are they
(13:07):
dispersed throughout. None of that information is available right now,
and you know that's why we are respectfully disagreeing with
the dec on whether or not these animals should be
included on the list.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Well, if listeners want to comment on the list, they
have until September twentieth, and they can do so by
email at NYSWAP twenty twenty five at DEEC dot NY
dot gov. We've been speaking with Chris Amato. They're the
conservation director and Council for Protect the Adirondics. Chris, thanks
for visiting us in the studio.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Thank you so much for having me
Speaker 1 (13:52):
And for more Capital Pressroom content, visit Capitol Pressroom dot
org or wherever you download your favorite podcasts.
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