December 10, 2024 • 30 mins
This episode is all about the DOJ report and how Decarcerate Memphis basically predicted all of this. My guest Alex Hensley and I dive into the report, give y'all the real tea, and talk about some possible solutions.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hey guys, and welcome to the Law according to Amber.
Every other Monday, we'll discuss controversial topics with the mixture
of opinion and legal facts. Thus the Law according to Amber.
Be sure to give me a follow on Facebook at
the Law Cording to Amber, as well as Instagram. Same name,
The Law according to Amber.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
What's up, y'all?
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Welcome to another episode of the Law according to Amber.
So there's so much happening right now with the DLJ
investigation findings being released, and I felt like it was
very important to do an episode dedicated to that, but
also dedicated to what was found in the report and
how it literally corroborates everything we've been saying for years
(00:51):
and years and years. So the department has just opened
a pattern or practice investigation into the Memphis Police Department
seventeen months ago. So shortly after Tyree Nichols was murdered,
they came and said they were gonna be opening a
pattern or practice investigation. I went to one of their
informational meetings where they talked about what the process would
(01:12):
look like, what they were wanting to, you know, essentially investigate,
cause there are different things that they can investigate and
specifically It was about the miss Police department and whether
or not they have a pattern or practice of discriminating
against folks when it comes to using excessive force when
it comes to traffic stops, and when it comes to
(01:34):
children and mental health, so like when they're using the
CT officers or crisis intervention officers to respond to like
mental health concerns or mental health crisis. And it was,
you know, really what we expected, but also very traumatizing.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
I think that.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
One thing I personally do is not taking you know,
black death. I don't watch videos of black people dying.
I don't want watch videos of black folks being murdered
by police. I don't watch videos of police violence. I
don't do any of those things because I mean, I
really feel like you can't unsee them. And the report
really relied heavily on body camera videos. So they watched
(02:16):
a lot of body camera video footage. And one thing
they said in the meeting that they had with different
community leaders and pastors is that, you know, body camera
footage speaks for itself. So a lot of their investigation
relied on that because that told a very clear story,
and that clear story was the Missed police were not
(02:36):
following the law that they were violating folks constitutional rights.
They purposely weren't taking reports of when they were using
accessive force, of who they were stopping. They were abusing people,
abusing children, letting dogs bite children. It was extremely graphic,
and honestly, I know people want to read the report
for information, but I would say to brace your shelf,
(02:59):
brace and give yourself time to read through it, because
it is very traumatic and it is very hurtful. And
one thing I'll say just from reading is that I
don't know how anyone can read that report and then
in turn say, Okay, the police department, we can keep
them like they're redeemable, because I don't think they are.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
I don't think they are.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
I think that everyone should be fired, like immediately, starting
with the chief and the supervisors. Multiple times in the
report they talked about how supervisors were required to review
traffic stops, and multiple times they were review stops where
the body camera footage and the report did not match.
They review stops about accessive force where the person did
not write a report about the excessive force that was used,
(03:43):
or even a report about the ticket in general didn't
provide basic information, and they just did nothing.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
They just let it slide.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
So to me, that's more than a training issue, this
is a culture and how the police department operates. A
lot of folks were also just really shocked that Mayor
Paul Young, our mayor and the city attorney and folks
in the City Mefi, City of mephis admin said that
they were not going to sign a consent decree or
(04:13):
a letter of participation, said that they would participate or
collaborate with the Department of Justice to develop a consent decree.
But they also sent that letter a day before the
actual findings came out, and I felt like based off
what we were singing in the news, it was just
back and forth between the DJ and the city admin
of them like responding to them even though there wasn't
(04:35):
the report wasn't out yet. So last week on Wednesday,
the DJ you said that they're gonna put out this report.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Then the city responds.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
To that even though the report is not out, and
since they aren't gonna sign a consent decree or an
agreement to participate in like developing one because they haven't
read the report yet.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Whole time, ain't nobody read the report? Because the report ain't.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Out yet, but realistically, the reason why they can't actually
s this is the realty.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
The reason why.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
They can't sign a document about the consent decree or
won't sign a document saying they will participate in developing one,
is because that means that they agree with wasn't the report.
That means they are agreeing to cooperate because they are
agreeing with the findings of the report. And if they
do that, they're gonna lose every lawsuit they have going
right now, including Tyrie Nichols. Tyre Nichols family are still
(05:26):
in the city right now for five hundred and fifty
million dollars. They're people too in the city for ten million.
There's other folks who in the city for twenty for fifteen.
There's so many police brutality lawsuits right now because the
Scorpion Unit abused so many people. And if they agree
to develop this consent decree and sign on to this
you know, settlement, they're gonna lose those lawsuits because that's
(05:47):
them s that's them taking responsibility, there's them taking ownership
and saying, yeah, we did these things. And that's really
why they won't sign it. There's so many people right now. Really,
you know, just pushing on the city two sign and
I think that what they haven't thought about is that
they can't and that they won't. Like that's a that's
a final thing. I don't see the city ever actually
(06:08):
signing on to develop a concent degree. They'll I mean,
the deal, theation's gonna have to see them because they
don't want to sign it because then they're gonna the
city will go bankrupt basically. I mean, they're gonna lose
all those lawsuits. You have to pay for concent degrees too,
And so I mean I get why they aren't signing,
yet I don't agree because realistically, we know that the
(06:32):
police department committed brutality against those people.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
We know that the.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Scorpre nion and those officers murder Tyree Nichols. So I mean,
not wanting to sign onto a concent degree knowing you
did these things is actually crazy.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
But you know, to each your own.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
I mean, I'm not a police chief or a mayor,
so I don't have to play political games, and I
canna just be honest and being honest, I know that
them niggas is guilty.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Like let's just be real here, very much guilty very much?
Did it?
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yeah, very much? Are are guilty of everything they were
accused of? And the DJ wrote it in a seventy
three page report like literally, So along with that seven
three page report, I want to bring out my friend
Alex Hensley, who is the policy share for decarce Rate Memphis,
(07:31):
because Dicarcerate put together multiple reports that talked about what
it's like being a black, Indigenous, person of c or
or person of color sorry, black indigenous or person of
color driving in the city of.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Memphis and how you are treated by police.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
And they put together these reports by putting in public
records requests for ticket information, so going to the city
court and putting in requests to receive tickets and then
taking those tickets in career actual statistical data from them
that showed, on average, how often someone who was black
would get pulled over, what they were pulled over for,
(08:08):
and what the punishment was versus how often someone who
was white was pulled over and charged with similar things. Basically,
they need this report twice. They actually presented it to
the city council before Tyree Nichols was murdered. And that's
one of the main things we have consistently brought up
over and over again is that our city council. One
of the main reasons why we pushed them to act
(08:28):
and they knew they had to act, was because they
knew that this problem existed.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
They knew that.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Memphis police officers were using pretextual stops to target black people,
and they did nothing because we gave them the data
that showed it. And then Tyree Nichols was murdered and
now they felt convicted. So we made sure to use
that pressure to continue pushing them to actually end the
use of pretextual stops. And then we put together another
report that showed tickets in twenty twenty three and how
(08:57):
they haven't improved. Actually, the police department was stopping people
for more protectual stops, and they were in the first report,
and all these things were listed in the DLJ report
under the protectional stops. So basically pretty much everything we
were saying was listed under the section around pretectual stops.
And one thing I found really interesting is that one
(09:17):
of my friends who went to a DJ meeting, he
spoke from the lawyers. So when the investigators and they said, actually,
one of the things that triggered them to open up
this investigation and come here was our BIPOCH report that
showed the disparity of black folks and how often they
were getting pulled over more than white people. Which is
(09:37):
why these type of organizations like Dicarsbray Memphis, our official
BILLA Memphis chapter are so important to have because when
community actually comes together, we're able to provide real solutions,
and we were able to provide the data and the
research that shows why those solutions will work, versus our
city government or the police department who just keeps saying
(10:00):
we just need more cops, we just need more training.
None of those things actually solved anything. So I want
to bring Alex on to talk more about the similarities.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
And you know why.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
It's so important that we are, you know, joining community
orgers and looking at different ways to hold them accountable.
Because as we know, the mayor has said he's not
going to sign a cocent degree. So what's the next steps?
What are the other options that we have as a community. So, Alex,
when you saw the DLJ report, what was your initial reaction?
(10:33):
This is fucked up?
Speaker 4 (10:35):
And yeah, it's like we knew this.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Was messed up.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
We knew the police department was corrupt and violent, and
I've heard stories, but I don't know, maybe it was
just all in one. And also just knowing that everything
that activists and organizers have been saying, not even since
Tyree was murdered, but before that, for like a decade
(11:05):
plus really forever, was legitimate and worse than I thought. Like.
It felt like conspiracy ish, and I don't even really
believe in conspiracies, but that's how it.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Felt, which is so shocking because you're white socies, Because.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Look, I worked in government and so I saw the inside.
And what you think is like a conspiracy to harm
people is often just people being dumb or not doing their.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Correct So what specific parts about it did you feel
like really mirrored the Bypock report that out.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
Yeah, I mean there was so much of it. It
felt like it was word for word, like the discrimination
and obviously we talked about and then against black people,
and then the pretextual stops that almost all of their,
(12:13):
you know, officers are focused on low level violations.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
So can you also talk a little bit about how
in the Biopoper report there were specific stats about how
many more black people were being stopped for the same
things versus white people.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Yeah, and this aligned with our report too, is that overall,
this is the DJ report, MPD sites black drivers for
equipment violations at four point five times the rate of
white drivers based on their share of the residential population,
and then they go into like nine times more likely
(12:52):
if they, you know, have these other kind of equipment
minor violations. And the People's Report, the BIPOD report said
the same thing, and.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
That because ours was like four or or five times
more likely or something, it was like very similar.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
Yeah, in twenty twenty two it was almost five times as.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Many, and the DLJS had four point five.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Yeah, So it's basically I think it's crazy, like how
how specifically similar they are.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Yeah, Like it's not just them.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Saying, oh yeah, you know they're getting put on more
that the percentages are almost exactly the same. Because I
definitely remember some relation official trying to act like we
couldn't read research or tickets correct and trying to act
like our data was flawed in some way, even though
people went through thousands of tickets and compiled the data
by hand and tried to make it seem like we
(13:42):
were just coming up with it out of our ass.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Yep, and it was mpds on data. So both times
the dj which has far more resources than decars rate
and decarse rate, this was just hundreds of hours by
like four or five volunteers.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Yea, they were volunteering putting this literally.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
Yes, same similar numbers. We just have a little bit
like slightly more information, just to add some context.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Even though I don't believe in police or policing institutions,
I also found it interesting how the d L they
agreed with us around the potectual stops and that like
they were pulling folks over for very low level financial
related offenses that were not violent and it does not
keep people safe, the same thing that we have said
correct so many times.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
Correct. And I believe there has been a shift from
the Biden administration to do you know that they want
to decentralize pretextual traffic stops, but it is still still
while yeah, yeah, I mean it's still wild that the
DFJ was like, yeah, don't do that, and to say
the exact same thing we said that it's not helping
(14:49):
public safety like it's and they didn't go this far,
but it's putting people in danger. I mean, they are
saying that is the high speed chases and stuff. Yeah, yeah,
high speed chases, and that the the excessive force is
most likely to come from those traffic stops and the
majority of those traffic stops being pretextual, low level.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
And then not being recorded and there being no data
from them so no one can even track that they were.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Stopped and beat.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yes, yeah, which I also think is crazy because when
we said the same thing, they try to make something
like we're just so you know, just big gung ho
abolitionists who just hate cops, when literally the police, the
Department of Justices, the police, y'all, the police told you
that this is not keep people safe and you should
stop doing it.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
Right, And I can't wait for them to come out
and say THEO DJA this report. Not really but yeah,
I mean that was the whole thing when we went.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
To the state.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Is John Gilluspie is saying, well, the data, you know,
basically like dismissing.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
John, who we aren't even sure can read correct. I've
never seen him read a document, you know, allegedly allegedly
he has fine motive, he doesn't know what means.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
But I don't know.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
I'm not I'm not completely sold on his motor skills, right, And.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
Then he was like, well, look at Memphis, implying that,
like it's a majority black city, so of course they're
going to pull over mostly black people.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
But then it's like we're talking because when we say
majority black, when we say majority black, we're talking sixty
four percent. We're not talking eighty or ninety correct, We're
talking sixty four. So we're when we're saying majority is
because we want people think that we just extra extra black,
because that's why I'd be saying it. But by the numbers,
it's sixty four percent, right, That ain't a lot. That
means it's another like thirty eight damn near forty percent
(16:32):
that's white, yes or other, So like that's still not
a lot. And proportionately, if you have sixty four percent
black people, why are ninety ninety plus percent of them
in traffic corder?
Speaker 4 (16:43):
Yes, and then most of those cases are getting dismissed.
I want to count how many times they said the
cases were dismissed, the charges were dismissed, they did not
charge any crime.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
And then you at the same time, you have these
state officials and our city government complaining about crime and
saying that you know, the district attorney isn't doing his
when literally it's the police. The police are trying to
meet quotas, so they keep arresting people for stupid stuff
or giving them citations for traffic stuff so they can
go to traffic courts so they can get a little
fine off of them, and then the ticket get dismissed,
(17:13):
and we have the same cycle over and over and
over again where no crime is actually ever happening, no
one is being kept safe, like nothing is being solved here, right,
It's just a continual cycle. And then the same people say, well, yeah,
the crime is just so bad and Memphis, nothing's happening.
Gives more money to police, got get more money police.
Then they do that, and then the crime still does
not change significantly. Like even though crime is down here,
(17:34):
which is what usually happens in the wintertime, by the way, guys,
but even though crime is down here, and I think
a lot of ourlso has to do with a lot
of the communitiy and issues that we have going on
to but it's has nothing to do with the police, no, and.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Recovering from the pandemic, Like there are so many other
things that are going on that can contribute to that.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
And we have less cops. So if the police are
done such a good job, I wonder how they're doing
it because they said they needed more cops and we
have less right now and the crime is down.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
This is what is weld to me, is that they,
year after years, said that they need more cops and
here we are this seventy pages of the report to
say how much time they are wasting.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
How much time they're wasting, how they're failing, how they
literally suck at their jobs. And what I want to
know is why we can't suit them to get our
damn tax dollars back, because at this point you've wasted
my tax dollars. You keep giving us to these people
who ain't doing shit with it, literally, who complain all
the time by not being able to do their jobs,
and how it's just so dangerous and they're just so
afraid we'll.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Quit right right.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
And that's another Yeah, we go lots of different directions,
but the DJ report saying that police put themselves in
harm's way was wild. I was like, oh, y'all, y'all
make this shit happen.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
They do it on purpose, because if they put themselves
in harms way, then they can say that someone was
violent and did more than they actually did, so they
can up the charges. I mean a great example of
this is when EMM and Martin and the other guy
were testifying in the federal case, when they would say, like, hey,
we would do these things so we can give them
multiple charges. They can stack them on top of each other,
so they would be aggressive and agitate the situation on
(19:06):
purpose to get a reaction from the person. Because the
more things they can charge you with, the closer they
get to multiple felonies. That looks better on them for
the quotas they have to reach. And that's why they're
doing that. And the DLJ clock that I said, y'all
better clock the.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Sea, Yes, in every kind of way.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Yeah. Yeah. They was like, actually this is some bullshit
and y'all they'll rest my time, and y'all are the problem. Yes, right.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
And I know like when we when you were working
on the ordnances, like one of the big things is
that like they took some things out. So I want
to also talk about like how a lot of the
things that they took out were mentioning the DLJ report
because we got a lot of pushback from them about
them saying like you know, oh no, we don't have
that in there. You know that's needed, and even the
Department justices saying, actually it wasn't correct.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
Yeah. So I'm looking at a whole list of things
that we put in our original pretextual stop ordinance, and
I'm not going.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
To go the people who can't say visual because I
don't have those, because I'm not doing all it. Alex
had I mean, at least has a whole wall of
like whiteboard, sticky notes on the wall of like all
the different things, because like Alex, I too a visual person.
So I understand, and I like to write it all
out so.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
I get it.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Yeah, this is in preparation for internal strategizing too, but
I wanted to put up. Yeah, we wrote a long
pretectual stop ordinance based on stops that had actually happened
and had resulted and or had resulted in some kind
of brutality or violence or whatever. And so we had
(20:41):
I think seventeen or eighteen stops listed out, and it
was boiled down. Not gonna name names, it was boiled
down there.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
It was Michael Easter Thomas's fault. I will always name
names to me. In fact, she really did want to
model it after what we saw in Philly because to
be real, a lot of the times, like with our
city council and other elected officials, like the public perceptions
what matters, right, So she was able to say, I'm
a mallet after this other orders has already happened, and
then we're going to be a part of the you know,
(21:09):
historic cities that implement this pretextual stop ordinance because it's
all about optics to her and a lot of other people,
like that's what like most politicians do. And I think
that she to be real sacrifice black folks lives to
be like I'm gonna take these things out and you know,
follow what I want to follow and do what I
want to do. And that's I mean, she's the elected person,
(21:30):
she's the one who sponsors the ordinance, so she has
the right to do that, but she should have listened
to us.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
Yeah. So yeah, and now we're making history for you
just like this deep corruption and so yeah. So the
pretextual stops we listed that have been named in the
DJ report as a problem is tinted windows. I think
that was the number I was trying to cite where
it was like nine point eight times more citations for
tinted windows for.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Which is crazy because I don't want to be in
a fishbowl. I really want to get my windows SENSEI it,
but I do feel like I would get pulled over,
oh absolutely, and I don't want to deal with that.
But I also don't want to be in a fish bowl.
Like I just feel like that's my right. I mean
ten isn't it. Like I'm not getting illegal tin. But
like even people who don't have illegal tin, like they
have the legal I merely allowed to have, they still
pull them over.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
Right exactly, and like as long as you can see
out the window, then whatever, who cares so and then
perceive some a marijuana odor alone they brought that. I
think they had a whole section on that, and we
try to ban that that you cannot stop somebody just geting.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Which also is not legal.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
Yeah, and then in the report they're just like, yeah,
this cop stops somebody because when they were going sixty
miles an hour and they said we smelled marijuana, bitch,
No you did not.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
And that's also not how the law works. Like you
can't you can't you smell you have to have probable
because you have to have seen something right, some kind
of paraphernalia, Like you can't just have to smell something.
Somebody could get in my car who smokes marijuana.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
I'm allergic, so I'm alert to smoke, so I don't
smoke anything I want could get in my car that
smells like marijuana, and I goopled over and they try
to say.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
That that's the room for stop me exactly, which is insane. Yep.
Speaker 4 (23:05):
And they had literating they had We tried to stop
pedestrian stops, which I figured, you know, the report exposed
happened more often than I thought parking infractions unless you're
you know, the cars unoccupied, limiting investigatory questions in stops.
So we even had a whole section in the pretextual
ordinance about searches, which has been a prominent thing in
(23:30):
this DOJ report of Yeah, and so the whole section
about searches and making sure I you know, I realized
on this end, we were just trying to make them
constitutional searches, Like we weren't even putting anything that was
above and beyond the Constitution as far as I understand it.
And that was still taken out and here we are.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
And I just feel like people aren't being held accountable
enough for me, because yeah, put out this great report
that talks about how fuckedu our police department is, But
who else is the blame? Like who who is gonna
feel like the pain from them? Like who's gonna feel
the punishment? And I also have my own pushback against it,
because I don't believe in punishment, but I do believe
(24:15):
in like some form of accountability.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
So what does that look like for these elected officials that.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Ignored us, the mayor, the city council, the pastors because
they love the police, like all these people who pushed
back against this narrative saying that we were just you know,
these radical abolitionists. You know, you're radical restorative justice schemers.
And Brent Taylor said the Cause Frame Memphis and Just
(24:41):
City are just radical sort of justice steamers. And I said,
how did he put all those multiple syllable words together?
Like what I ain't him say, yeah, yeah, this is
a good phrase to say.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
And I'm just like, why are you so obsessed with us?
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Like this is all so obsessed with me? Like, you know,
I don't know the rest of the words, but he's
actually very obsessed with us, and it's actually crazy deeply,
it's yeah wild, I know that we live in his
head free and with the band of his existence.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
It's actually loved that.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
For me, bad press is good press. That's all I'm saying.
So yeah, I mean accountability.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
I mean we could give the easy answer of like
vote them out, but we don't have time for that.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
We have three more years with yea with our city council. Also,
for me, I think embarrassment is a great fund.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
So this is what I'm saying. It is like you know,
and that's not my chosen tactic, but I think we
put out, Yeah, I would love to put out in
every way possible, all the ways that we were right in,
all the ways that the DJ affirmed that.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
And and how yours elected officials and your city admin
failed you. I think that everyone needs to hear that, Like,
by the way, these people that you trusted and you
voted for, she don't give a fuck about you. And
they didn't listen to us because they said that we
were radical. And now your sibling or your family members
dead because the police killed them, order in jail because
they got arrested for a minor traffic infraction, right, and
(26:12):
they can't post bail because they can't afford it, right,
because they got eight charge of stacked on top of them.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
Yep. And we had about, yeah, fifteen more I don't
know how many, like smaller policies within an ordinance and
then a whole or other ordinance to damn special units.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
That never back again, like we used told bring that
one back up. Oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
And there was a specific section in the DLG report
about the special units too, like which we were talking about.
We're like, hey, these special units don't have any real accountability.
They're not being held accountable for anything that they're doing,
and they're using that like free reign to just do
whatever they want.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
Right Yeah. And that they're prioritizing low level violations too,
which is like, why do we even need special units
to do that?
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Yeah, don't.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
It's duplicative in the way that they're still doing traffic
stops normally. And then on top of that, they have
whole ass specialized.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Units for what and those specialized units are doing the
same thing. It's like I said before, it's a lot
of repetitive actions of them. All doing the same things
and so therefore none of the crimes are actually getting solved.
You know, no one's stolen cars getting found, Like none
of the actual things that matter are actually happening. You
just pulling over people in cars for going five over.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
Yeah, And this is where the conspiracy part comes in
for me, is that feels like an intentional decision to
have these special units that don't have any real clear guidelines.
They don't tell anyone what they're doing, and so they
just kind of have this free for all to do whatever.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
And so.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
Just that like the special units, I think allows them
to go a bit undercover about what their practices are.
Like we know based on the DJ report they were
prioritizing low level violations, but I don't know that they said.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
And we were saying that with the report, but it
was hard to prove it because MPD wouldn't come out
and say it, like yes, they wouldn't admit to the quotas,
even though the DJ said they were quotas.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
They were like there was a quota.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
System, right, And I think in our people's report, based
on what we could find, specialized units were more violent.
And I don't even think the DOJ report said that,
and I think.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
There were more like incidents with the specialized units because
they were just giving like this autonomy to just do
whatever they want.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
Right, And the little that we know about specialized units
across the nation is yeah, that's that's the pattern because
they can go rogue.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Yeah, and they don't have to like they that were
in regular uniforms. They just out here in hoodies with
a vague shield on it, throwing people against cars and
beat No. Yep, it's insane.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Yeah, Well, I appreciate you coming on, Alex. I thought
it was really important that we like really set the
records strate about who really did the actual work here,
because like although the DLJ has its, you know, this
credibility that people really look for, like dicarcer Memphis and
our like volunteers and the folks who are in the
org did the actual work. They were the actual whistleblowers
(29:17):
here quote unquote, and like forced the DLJ to really
come in and just affirm what we're already saying.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
Yeah, and I hope we can do the same thing
for the community. Like I think the community knows these
things are happening obviously, but like.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
They don't know how bad it is.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
Right just to say that, like, it's not just like
people that you may know and like, yeah, it's very racist.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
But everyone feels like they have a cousin who, like
you know, experienced the bad traffic stop, but they don't
realize that actually it's your cousin or the last five
generations including your parents and your grandparents.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
It's really everyone in your family and stuff. Maybe two people, yep.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
Yeah, And so hopefully we can do the same and
affirm that what's happening to him is real.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
Yeah. I hope so too. Well.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you all
so much for to another episode of The Low. According
to Amber, as always, you can follow me on Facebook
and Instagram, same name The Low.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
Cording to Amber,
Hey guys, and welcome to the Law according to Amber.
Every other Monday, we'll discuss controversial topics with the mixture
of opinion and legal facts. Thus the Law according to Amber.
Be sure to give me a follow on Facebook at
the Law Cording to Amber, as well as Instagram. Same name,
The Law according to Amber.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
What's up, y'all?
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Welcome to another episode of the Law according to Amber.
So there's so much happening right now with the DLJ
investigation findings being released, and I felt like it was
very important to do an episode dedicated to that, but
also dedicated to what was found in the report and
how it literally corroborates everything we've been saying for years
(00:51):
and years and years. So the department has just opened
a pattern or practice investigation into the Memphis Police Department
seventeen months ago. So shortly after Tyree Nichols was murdered,
they came and said they were gonna be opening a
pattern or practice investigation. I went to one of their
informational meetings where they talked about what the process would
(01:12):
look like, what they were wanting to, you know, essentially investigate,
cause there are different things that they can investigate and
specifically It was about the miss Police department and whether
or not they have a pattern or practice of discriminating
against folks when it comes to using excessive force when
it comes to traffic stops, and when it comes to
(01:34):
children and mental health, so like when they're using the
CT officers or crisis intervention officers to respond to like
mental health concerns or mental health crisis. And it was,
you know, really what we expected, but also very traumatizing.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
I think that.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
One thing I personally do is not taking you know,
black death. I don't watch videos of black people dying.
I don't want watch videos of black folks being murdered
by police. I don't watch videos of police violence. I
don't do any of those things because I mean, I
really feel like you can't unsee them. And the report
really relied heavily on body camera videos. So they watched
(02:16):
a lot of body camera video footage. And one thing
they said in the meeting that they had with different
community leaders and pastors is that, you know, body camera
footage speaks for itself. So a lot of their investigation
relied on that because that told a very clear story,
and that clear story was the Missed police were not
(02:36):
following the law that they were violating folks constitutional rights.
They purposely weren't taking reports of when they were using
accessive force, of who they were stopping. They were abusing people,
abusing children, letting dogs bite children. It was extremely graphic,
and honestly, I know people want to read the report
for information, but I would say to brace your shelf,
(02:59):
brace and give yourself time to read through it, because
it is very traumatic and it is very hurtful. And
one thing I'll say just from reading is that I
don't know how anyone can read that report and then
in turn say, Okay, the police department, we can keep
them like they're redeemable, because I don't think they are.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
I don't think they are.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
I think that everyone should be fired, like immediately, starting
with the chief and the supervisors. Multiple times in the
report they talked about how supervisors were required to review
traffic stops, and multiple times they were review stops where
the body camera footage and the report did not match.
They review stops about accessive force where the person did
not write a report about the excessive force that was used,
(03:43):
or even a report about the ticket in general didn't
provide basic information, and they just did nothing.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
They just let it slide.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
So to me, that's more than a training issue, this
is a culture and how the police department operates. A
lot of folks were also just really shocked that Mayor
Paul Young, our mayor and the city attorney and folks
in the City Mefi, City of mephis admin said that
they were not going to sign a consent decree or
(04:13):
a letter of participation, said that they would participate or
collaborate with the Department of Justice to develop a consent decree.
But they also sent that letter a day before the
actual findings came out, and I felt like based off
what we were singing in the news, it was just
back and forth between the DJ and the city admin
of them like responding to them even though there wasn't
(04:35):
the report wasn't out yet. So last week on Wednesday,
the DJ you said that they're gonna put out this report.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Then the city responds.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
To that even though the report is not out, and
since they aren't gonna sign a consent decree or an
agreement to participate in like developing one because they haven't
read the report yet.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Whole time, ain't nobody read the report? Because the report ain't.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Out yet, but realistically, the reason why they can't actually
s this is the realty.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
The reason why.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
They can't sign a document about the consent decree or
won't sign a document saying they will participate in developing one,
is because that means that they agree with wasn't the report.
That means they are agreeing to cooperate because they are
agreeing with the findings of the report. And if they
do that, they're gonna lose every lawsuit they have going
right now, including Tyrie Nichols. Tyre Nichols family are still
(05:26):
in the city right now for five hundred and fifty
million dollars. They're people too in the city for ten million.
There's other folks who in the city for twenty for fifteen.
There's so many police brutality lawsuits right now because the
Scorpion Unit abused so many people. And if they agree
to develop this consent decree and sign on to this
you know, settlement, they're gonna lose those lawsuits because that's
(05:47):
them s that's them taking responsibility, there's them taking ownership
and saying, yeah, we did these things. And that's really
why they won't sign it. There's so many people right now. Really,
you know, just pushing on the city two sign and
I think that what they haven't thought about is that
they can't and that they won't. Like that's a that's
a final thing. I don't see the city ever actually
(06:08):
signing on to develop a concent degree. They'll I mean,
the deal, theation's gonna have to see them because they
don't want to sign it because then they're gonna the
city will go bankrupt basically. I mean, they're gonna lose
all those lawsuits. You have to pay for concent degrees too,
And so I mean I get why they aren't signing,
yet I don't agree because realistically, we know that the
(06:32):
police department committed brutality against those people.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
We know that the.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Scorpre nion and those officers murder Tyree Nichols. So I mean,
not wanting to sign onto a concent degree knowing you
did these things is actually crazy.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
But you know, to each your own.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
I mean, I'm not a police chief or a mayor,
so I don't have to play political games, and I
canna just be honest and being honest, I know that
them niggas is guilty.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Like let's just be real here, very much guilty very much?
Did it?
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yeah, very much? Are are guilty of everything they were
accused of? And the DJ wrote it in a seventy
three page report like literally, So along with that seven
three page report, I want to bring out my friend
Alex Hensley, who is the policy share for decarce Rate Memphis,
(07:31):
because Dicarcerate put together multiple reports that talked about what
it's like being a black, Indigenous, person of c or
or person of color sorry, black indigenous or person of
color driving in the city of.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Memphis and how you are treated by police.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
And they put together these reports by putting in public
records requests for ticket information, so going to the city
court and putting in requests to receive tickets and then
taking those tickets in career actual statistical data from them
that showed, on average, how often someone who was black
would get pulled over, what they were pulled over for,
(08:08):
and what the punishment was versus how often someone who
was white was pulled over and charged with similar things. Basically,
they need this report twice. They actually presented it to
the city council before Tyree Nichols was murdered. And that's
one of the main things we have consistently brought up
over and over again is that our city council. One
of the main reasons why we pushed them to act
(08:28):
and they knew they had to act, was because they
knew that this problem existed.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
They knew that.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Memphis police officers were using pretextual stops to target black people,
and they did nothing because we gave them the data
that showed it. And then Tyree Nichols was murdered and
now they felt convicted. So we made sure to use
that pressure to continue pushing them to actually end the
use of pretextual stops. And then we put together another
report that showed tickets in twenty twenty three and how
(08:57):
they haven't improved. Actually, the police department was stopping people
for more protectual stops, and they were in the first report,
and all these things were listed in the DLJ report
under the protectional stops. So basically pretty much everything we
were saying was listed under the section around pretectual stops.
And one thing I found really interesting is that one
(09:17):
of my friends who went to a DJ meeting, he
spoke from the lawyers. So when the investigators and they said, actually,
one of the things that triggered them to open up
this investigation and come here was our BIPOCH report that
showed the disparity of black folks and how often they
were getting pulled over more than white people. Which is
(09:37):
why these type of organizations like Dicarsbray Memphis, our official
BILLA Memphis chapter are so important to have because when
community actually comes together, we're able to provide real solutions,
and we were able to provide the data and the
research that shows why those solutions will work, versus our
city government or the police department who just keeps saying
(10:00):
we just need more cops, we just need more training.
None of those things actually solved anything. So I want
to bring Alex on to talk more about the similarities.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
And you know why.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
It's so important that we are, you know, joining community
orgers and looking at different ways to hold them accountable.
Because as we know, the mayor has said he's not
going to sign a cocent degree. So what's the next steps?
What are the other options that we have as a community. So, Alex,
when you saw the DLJ report, what was your initial reaction?
(10:33):
This is fucked up?
Speaker 4 (10:35):
And yeah, it's like we knew this.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Was messed up.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
We knew the police department was corrupt and violent, and
I've heard stories, but I don't know, maybe it was
just all in one. And also just knowing that everything
that activists and organizers have been saying, not even since
Tyree was murdered, but before that, for like a decade
(11:05):
plus really forever, was legitimate and worse than I thought. Like.
It felt like conspiracy ish, and I don't even really
believe in conspiracies, but that's how it.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Felt, which is so shocking because you're white socies, Because.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Look, I worked in government and so I saw the inside.
And what you think is like a conspiracy to harm
people is often just people being dumb or not doing their.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Correct So what specific parts about it did you feel
like really mirrored the Bypock report that out.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
Yeah, I mean there was so much of it. It
felt like it was word for word, like the discrimination
and obviously we talked about and then against black people,
and then the pretextual stops that almost all of their,
(12:13):
you know, officers are focused on low level violations.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
So can you also talk a little bit about how
in the Biopoper report there were specific stats about how
many more black people were being stopped for the same
things versus white people.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Yeah, and this aligned with our report too, is that overall,
this is the DJ report, MPD sites black drivers for
equipment violations at four point five times the rate of
white drivers based on their share of the residential population,
and then they go into like nine times more likely
(12:52):
if they, you know, have these other kind of equipment
minor violations. And the People's Report, the BIPOD report said
the same thing, and.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
That because ours was like four or or five times
more likely or something, it was like very similar.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
Yeah, in twenty twenty two it was almost five times as.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Many, and the DLJS had four point five.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Yeah, So it's basically I think it's crazy, like how
how specifically similar they are.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Yeah, Like it's not just them.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Saying, oh yeah, you know they're getting put on more
that the percentages are almost exactly the same. Because I
definitely remember some relation official trying to act like we
couldn't read research or tickets correct and trying to act
like our data was flawed in some way, even though
people went through thousands of tickets and compiled the data
by hand and tried to make it seem like we
(13:42):
were just coming up with it out of our ass.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Yep, and it was mpds on data. So both times
the dj which has far more resources than decars rate
and decarse rate, this was just hundreds of hours by
like four or five volunteers.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Yea, they were volunteering putting this literally.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
Yes, same similar numbers. We just have a little bit
like slightly more information, just to add some context.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Even though I don't believe in police or policing institutions,
I also found it interesting how the d L they
agreed with us around the potectual stops and that like
they were pulling folks over for very low level financial
related offenses that were not violent and it does not
keep people safe, the same thing that we have said
correct so many times.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
Correct. And I believe there has been a shift from
the Biden administration to do you know that they want
to decentralize pretextual traffic stops, but it is still still
while yeah, yeah, I mean it's still wild that the
DFJ was like, yeah, don't do that, and to say
the exact same thing we said that it's not helping
(14:49):
public safety like it's and they didn't go this far,
but it's putting people in danger. I mean, they are
saying that is the high speed chases and stuff. Yeah, yeah,
high speed chases, and that the the excessive force is
most likely to come from those traffic stops and the
majority of those traffic stops being pretextual, low level.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
And then not being recorded and there being no data
from them so no one can even track that they were.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Stopped and beat.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yes, yeah, which I also think is crazy because when
we said the same thing, they try to make something
like we're just so you know, just big gung ho
abolitionists who just hate cops, when literally the police, the
Department of Justices, the police, y'all, the police told you
that this is not keep people safe and you should
stop doing it.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
Right, And I can't wait for them to come out
and say THEO DJA this report. Not really but yeah,
I mean that was the whole thing when we went.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
To the state.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Is John Gilluspie is saying, well, the data, you know,
basically like dismissing.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
John, who we aren't even sure can read correct. I've
never seen him read a document, you know, allegedly allegedly
he has fine motive, he doesn't know what means.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
But I don't know.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
I'm not I'm not completely sold on his motor skills, right, And.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
Then he was like, well, look at Memphis, implying that,
like it's a majority black city, so of course they're
going to pull over mostly black people.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
But then it's like we're talking because when we say
majority black, when we say majority black, we're talking sixty
four percent. We're not talking eighty or ninety correct, We're
talking sixty four. So we're when we're saying majority is
because we want people think that we just extra extra black,
because that's why I'd be saying it. But by the numbers,
it's sixty four percent, right, That ain't a lot. That
means it's another like thirty eight damn near forty percent
(16:32):
that's white, yes or other, So like that's still not
a lot. And proportionately, if you have sixty four percent
black people, why are ninety ninety plus percent of them
in traffic corder?
Speaker 4 (16:43):
Yes, and then most of those cases are getting dismissed.
I want to count how many times they said the
cases were dismissed, the charges were dismissed, they did not
charge any crime.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
And then you at the same time, you have these
state officials and our city government complaining about crime and
saying that you know, the district attorney isn't doing his
when literally it's the police. The police are trying to
meet quotas, so they keep arresting people for stupid stuff
or giving them citations for traffic stuff so they can
go to traffic courts so they can get a little
fine off of them, and then the ticket get dismissed,
(17:13):
and we have the same cycle over and over and
over again where no crime is actually ever happening, no
one is being kept safe, like nothing is being solved here, right,
It's just a continual cycle. And then the same people say, well, yeah,
the crime is just so bad and Memphis, nothing's happening.
Gives more money to police, got get more money police.
Then they do that, and then the crime still does
not change significantly. Like even though crime is down here,
(17:34):
which is what usually happens in the wintertime, by the way, guys,
but even though crime is down here, and I think
a lot of ourlso has to do with a lot
of the communitiy and issues that we have going on
to but it's has nothing to do with the police, no, and.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Recovering from the pandemic, Like there are so many other
things that are going on that can contribute to that.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
And we have less cops. So if the police are
done such a good job, I wonder how they're doing
it because they said they needed more cops and we
have less right now and the crime is down.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
This is what is weld to me, is that they,
year after years, said that they need more cops and
here we are this seventy pages of the report to
say how much time they are wasting.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
How much time they're wasting, how they're failing, how they
literally suck at their jobs. And what I want to
know is why we can't suit them to get our
damn tax dollars back, because at this point you've wasted
my tax dollars. You keep giving us to these people
who ain't doing shit with it, literally, who complain all
the time by not being able to do their jobs,
and how it's just so dangerous and they're just so
afraid we'll.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Quit right right.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
And that's another Yeah, we go lots of different directions,
but the DJ report saying that police put themselves in
harm's way was wild. I was like, oh, y'all, y'all
make this shit happen.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
They do it on purpose, because if they put themselves
in harms way, then they can say that someone was
violent and did more than they actually did, so they
can up the charges. I mean a great example of
this is when EMM and Martin and the other guy
were testifying in the federal case, when they would say, like, hey,
we would do these things so we can give them
multiple charges. They can stack them on top of each other,
so they would be aggressive and agitate the situation on
(19:06):
purpose to get a reaction from the person. Because the
more things they can charge you with, the closer they
get to multiple felonies. That looks better on them for
the quotas they have to reach. And that's why they're
doing that. And the DLJ clock that I said, y'all
better clock the.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Sea, Yes, in every kind of way.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Yeah. Yeah. They was like, actually this is some bullshit
and y'all they'll rest my time, and y'all are the problem. Yes, right.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
And I know like when we when you were working
on the ordnances, like one of the big things is
that like they took some things out. So I want
to also talk about like how a lot of the
things that they took out were mentioning the DLJ report
because we got a lot of pushback from them about
them saying like you know, oh no, we don't have
that in there. You know that's needed, and even the
Department justices saying, actually it wasn't correct.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
Yeah. So I'm looking at a whole list of things
that we put in our original pretextual stop ordinance, and
I'm not going.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
To go the people who can't say visual because I
don't have those, because I'm not doing all it. Alex
had I mean, at least has a whole wall of
like whiteboard, sticky notes on the wall of like all
the different things, because like Alex, I too a visual person.
So I understand, and I like to write it all
out so.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
I get it.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Yeah, this is in preparation for internal strategizing too, but
I wanted to put up. Yeah, we wrote a long
pretectual stop ordinance based on stops that had actually happened
and had resulted and or had resulted in some kind
of brutality or violence or whatever. And so we had
(20:41):
I think seventeen or eighteen stops listed out, and it
was boiled down. Not gonna name names, it was boiled
down there.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
It was Michael Easter Thomas's fault. I will always name
names to me. In fact, she really did want to
model it after what we saw in Philly because to
be real, a lot of the times, like with our
city council and other elected officials, like the public perceptions
what matters, right, So she was able to say, I'm
a mallet after this other orders has already happened, and
then we're going to be a part of the you know,
(21:09):
historic cities that implement this pretextual stop ordinance because it's
all about optics to her and a lot of other people,
like that's what like most politicians do. And I think
that she to be real sacrifice black folks lives to
be like I'm gonna take these things out and you know,
follow what I want to follow and do what I
want to do. And that's I mean, she's the elected person,
(21:30):
she's the one who sponsors the ordinance, so she has
the right to do that, but she should have listened
to us.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
Yeah. So yeah, and now we're making history for you
just like this deep corruption and so yeah. So the
pretextual stops we listed that have been named in the
DJ report as a problem is tinted windows. I think
that was the number I was trying to cite where
it was like nine point eight times more citations for
tinted windows for.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Which is crazy because I don't want to be in
a fishbowl. I really want to get my windows SENSEI it,
but I do feel like I would get pulled over,
oh absolutely, and I don't want to deal with that.
But I also don't want to be in a fish bowl.
Like I just feel like that's my right. I mean
ten isn't it. Like I'm not getting illegal tin. But
like even people who don't have illegal tin, like they
have the legal I merely allowed to have, they still
pull them over.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
Right exactly, and like as long as you can see
out the window, then whatever, who cares so and then
perceive some a marijuana odor alone they brought that. I
think they had a whole section on that, and we
try to ban that that you cannot stop somebody just geting.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Which also is not legal.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
Yeah, and then in the report they're just like, yeah,
this cop stops somebody because when they were going sixty
miles an hour and they said we smelled marijuana, bitch,
No you did not.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
And that's also not how the law works. Like you
can't you can't you smell you have to have probable
because you have to have seen something right, some kind
of paraphernalia, Like you can't just have to smell something.
Somebody could get in my car who smokes marijuana.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
I'm allergic, so I'm alert to smoke, so I don't
smoke anything I want could get in my car that
smells like marijuana, and I goopled over and they try
to say.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
That that's the room for stop me exactly, which is insane. Yep.
Speaker 4 (23:05):
And they had literating they had We tried to stop
pedestrian stops, which I figured, you know, the report exposed
happened more often than I thought parking infractions unless you're
you know, the cars unoccupied, limiting investigatory questions in stops.
So we even had a whole section in the pretextual
ordinance about searches, which has been a prominent thing in
(23:30):
this DOJ report of Yeah, and so the whole section
about searches and making sure I you know, I realized
on this end, we were just trying to make them
constitutional searches, Like we weren't even putting anything that was
above and beyond the Constitution as far as I understand it.
And that was still taken out and here we are.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
And I just feel like people aren't being held accountable
enough for me, because yeah, put out this great report
that talks about how fuckedu our police department is, But
who else is the blame? Like who who is gonna
feel like the pain from them? Like who's gonna feel
the punishment? And I also have my own pushback against it,
because I don't believe in punishment, but I do believe
(24:15):
in like some form of accountability.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
So what does that look like for these elected officials that.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Ignored us, the mayor, the city council, the pastors because
they love the police, like all these people who pushed
back against this narrative saying that we were just you know,
these radical abolitionists. You know, you're radical restorative justice schemers.
And Brent Taylor said the Cause Frame Memphis and Just
(24:41):
City are just radical sort of justice steamers. And I said,
how did he put all those multiple syllable words together?
Like what I ain't him say, yeah, yeah, this is
a good phrase to say.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
And I'm just like, why are you so obsessed with us?
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Like this is all so obsessed with me? Like, you know,
I don't know the rest of the words, but he's
actually very obsessed with us, and it's actually crazy deeply,
it's yeah wild, I know that we live in his
head free and with the band of his existence.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
It's actually loved that.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
For me, bad press is good press. That's all I'm saying.
So yeah, I mean accountability.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
I mean we could give the easy answer of like
vote them out, but we don't have time for that.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
We have three more years with yea with our city council. Also,
for me, I think embarrassment is a great fund.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
So this is what I'm saying. It is like you know,
and that's not my chosen tactic, but I think we
put out, Yeah, I would love to put out in
every way possible, all the ways that we were right in,
all the ways that the DJ affirmed that.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
And and how yours elected officials and your city admin
failed you. I think that everyone needs to hear that, Like,
by the way, these people that you trusted and you
voted for, she don't give a fuck about you. And
they didn't listen to us because they said that we
were radical. And now your sibling or your family members
dead because the police killed them, order in jail because
they got arrested for a minor traffic infraction, right, and
(26:12):
they can't post bail because they can't afford it, right,
because they got eight charge of stacked on top of them.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
Yep. And we had about, yeah, fifteen more I don't
know how many, like smaller policies within an ordinance and
then a whole or other ordinance to damn special units.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
That never back again, like we used told bring that
one back up. Oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
And there was a specific section in the DLG report
about the special units too, like which we were talking about.
We're like, hey, these special units don't have any real accountability.
They're not being held accountable for anything that they're doing,
and they're using that like free reign to just do
whatever they want.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
Right Yeah. And that they're prioritizing low level violations too,
which is like, why do we even need special units
to do that?
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Yeah, don't.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
It's duplicative in the way that they're still doing traffic
stops normally. And then on top of that, they have
whole ass specialized.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Units for what and those specialized units are doing the
same thing. It's like I said before, it's a lot
of repetitive actions of them. All doing the same things
and so therefore none of the crimes are actually getting solved.
You know, no one's stolen cars getting found, Like none
of the actual things that matter are actually happening. You
just pulling over people in cars for going five over.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
Yeah, And this is where the conspiracy part comes in
for me, is that feels like an intentional decision to
have these special units that don't have any real clear guidelines.
They don't tell anyone what they're doing, and so they
just kind of have this free for all to do whatever.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
And so.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
Just that like the special units, I think allows them
to go a bit undercover about what their practices are.
Like we know based on the DJ report they were
prioritizing low level violations, but I don't know that they said.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
And we were saying that with the report, but it
was hard to prove it because MPD wouldn't come out
and say it, like yes, they wouldn't admit to the quotas,
even though the DJ said they were quotas.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
They were like there was a quota.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
System, right, And I think in our people's report, based
on what we could find, specialized units were more violent.
And I don't even think the DOJ report said that,
and I think.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
There were more like incidents with the specialized units because
they were just giving like this autonomy to just do
whatever they want.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
Right, And the little that we know about specialized units
across the nation is yeah, that's that's the pattern because
they can go rogue.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Yeah, and they don't have to like they that were
in regular uniforms. They just out here in hoodies with
a vague shield on it, throwing people against cars and
beat No. Yep, it's insane.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Yeah, Well, I appreciate you coming on, Alex. I thought
it was really important that we like really set the
records strate about who really did the actual work here,
because like although the DLJ has its, you know, this
credibility that people really look for, like dicarcer Memphis and
our like volunteers and the folks who are in the
org did the actual work. They were the actual whistleblowers
(29:17):
here quote unquote, and like forced the DLJ to really
come in and just affirm what we're already saying.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
Yeah, and I hope we can do the same thing
for the community. Like I think the community knows these
things are happening obviously, but like.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
They don't know how bad it is.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
Right just to say that, like, it's not just like
people that you may know and like, yeah, it's very racist.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
But everyone feels like they have a cousin who, like
you know, experienced the bad traffic stop, but they don't
realize that actually it's your cousin or the last five
generations including your parents and your grandparents.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
It's really everyone in your family and stuff. Maybe two people, yep.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
Yeah, And so hopefully we can do the same and
affirm that what's happening to him is real.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
Yeah. I hope so too. Well.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you all
so much for to another episode of The Low. According
to Amber, as always, you can follow me on Facebook
and Instagram, same name The Low.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
Cording to Amber,
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