Alfred "Shivy" Brooks

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
All right, So today we areback in full swing, so we're gonna
have a full bodied conversation about education, so you know my education. Guys
here, Jason introduced yourself to thepeople and say hi, please, hey,
everybody, I'm Jason b Allen.I am excited to be back for
another awesome conversation. He almost liveshere. I realized that yesterday you almost

(00:21):
live here. But it's fine,and our very special guests, I'm gonna
let him introduce himself and tell himtell us all about you. Look,
we're going to tell the truth aboutwhy you don't want to introduce me.
You're afraid to mispronounce my name,but that's all because you challenged me.
That's fine. It is mister Alfredschiby Brooks and he got it wrong.

(00:42):
Head put me on the spot.I'm on the spot, absolutely absolutely.
We're gonna hold ourselves accountable. Now. My name is Alfred Shivy Shitvy.
It was the opposite what I had. That's all right, that's all right.
It's uh. You know, shivvyis a Blackfoot Indian word that meets
prince. Part of my lineage comesfrom the black Foot with nations, so
you know, it's just an odeto part of my lineage. But I

(01:06):
am the first active teacher to beelected to the Atlanta Public School Board in
one hundred and fifty year history ofeducating children in the city. I'm a
father and a teacher at Charles StrueHigh School in Clayton County, but a
resident of the city of Atlanta.Yeah, right, nice. I was
going to get right into the conversation. But these two want to have a
whole conversation about d A. Willis, So that's really quickly if y'll y'all

(01:30):
still want to get into that.No, not at all. Okay,
that's fine at all. I didn'tknow that they had a whole conversation about
it before pressing news. I wouldsay that what's more impressive and what is
more pressing news is that the NationalParents Union, I have this opportunity to
work with them. Right, wegot together with working families, parents,

(01:52):
people who haven't voted in the lastten years here in the city of Atlanta.
They were excited about voting in thislast election for this brother sitting in
this room with us, because he'sa father, he's a community leader,
he's an activist, he's a teacher, and this all around great guy.
People love that. Parents also wantedto see that, you know what,

(02:15):
we do have trust in our teachers. We would love to see a teacher
on the school board. So forme, I would like to highlight that
type of news, right because wedon't get to hear that. But these
are the things that the everyday peoplewho a lot of a lot of people
claim they're working for, right,this is what they're saying they want,
and so I just want to highlightsomething that the people, yeah, I

(02:37):
want to hear. Can can westart to right there and just talk about
what a school board is, justjust technically what it is, and then
get into like why that's important forpeople who don't well, I just won't
say before we go to that.I was invested ish because I wasn't a
teacher then, but it was fordoor for me, Like when every time
I saw his flying so like ishe gonna wear that every time? And
I was like he really, thisis really a part of who he is.

(02:59):
And that's what made me like,Okay, what is he running for?
Like if I saw the sign,I was like, what is he
running for? He's running for Door? Like what is he running for?
So the style is really is reallystyling for me, So I just want
to throw that in it. Iappreciate that. I mean, look at
Atlanta. Why not be audacious,right, I mean why not be authentic?
Why not be who we are?But also I mean if you took
the time to google doctor King orgoogle Malcolm Max, you would see that

(03:23):
on a very regular basis, theywore for doors while on the front lines.
They wore for doors while being fingerprinted. They wore for doras on a
regular basis. And so for me, it's it's an ode to our culture
and what it looked like to showup as a gentleman, what it looked
like to show up as an activist, what it looked like to show up
as a black man. So,uh, you know, I sport the

(03:45):
same haircut as you beneath the fordoor, right, you're in a ball
club. We in the ball club. But but for me, it's it
is about, you know, reallypushing authenticity. If those of us who
are in position privilege, whether itbe by having a platform or whether it
be by having credibility, do notpush the envelope, then what gets left

(04:09):
for our babies who show up withtheir hair locked, or for our babies
who dye their hair because it feelsauthentic to them, how it feels for
you know, our kids who weartheir clothes, how we wear our clothes.
To feel like, you know,I'm not credible, I have to
switch it up. I have toplay, you know, uh, the
word. I'm looking for respectability politicsin order to be credible in different spaces.

(04:32):
So I push the envelope on purpose. And there's an intentionality behind why
I do what I do. Andwe talk about this a lot about respectability
politics. This was a powerful education. I did not expect doors. I
have a lot of conversations to haveafter that and really get along. My
head is to be so that's cap. It's the whole thing. I just

(04:56):
it just doesn't It's fine, andand I'm gonna have to take you.
So all my hats are made byblack hat maker here in the city of
Atlanta. Shout out to Fruition HatCompany, who do hats for a lot
of celebrities and notable people. Andso it's also you know talking, you
know, giving us an opportunity tohighlight black business, black fashion, black
culture, blackness. Yes, thisis true. I didn't expect that Okay,

(05:21):
whole conversation about do I love itwell, I want out my actually
consider life. We were talking aboutthe respectability politics and how it connects to
what the school board does, andI want to, you know, just
kind of challenge us to accept thenotion that when we push black excellence,
a lot of times it is notfor poor blacks. It is not for

(05:42):
working class blacks. It is notfor blacks who are disabled. It is
not for blacks who don't fit intothe status quo if you go to a
trade school, or if you don'tgraduate on time, if you have a
GED. I'm mentioning this because alot of times these are our people in
communities, residents who don't get out, devote residents who are unfortunately targeted by

(06:05):
the system and having to go throughthe legal system and the juvenile justice system,
and having to deal with being displacedfrom homelessness. These are residents who
again are not civically engaged. I'msharing that to say that this brother's position
on the school board one as ateacher who is teaching high school students to

(06:26):
go against the norm to understand systemsand also the value in having power politically
but also economically and getting that througheducation. We have to make sure that
this work is done for the everydaypeople. And so thinking about what the
school board does, when we thinkabout crime, when we think about literacy,
which is a major thing that AtlantaPublic Schools is focusing on, these

(06:47):
are all issues that are, tobe quite honest, governed by schools.
School Boards impact how our young peopleare prepared for careers and prepared for society.
So I'm gonna pass the mike toshitbut to talk a little bit more
about his new journey. Yeah,as being on the school board, but
also he's a teacher and he's teachingstudents government, politics, economics, and

(07:12):
so all of that plays a roleinto what the school board is performing and
doing in our community. But beforeyou do that, because I want you
to understand what a school board lookslike. So we're not talking about school
board that's filled with teachers, whichone would think teachers, administrators, things
at that magnitude. We're talk aboutthe school board that it's filled with you
were saying, architects and soccer momsand things of that magnitude. So who
typically sits on a school board?Right? So our school boards, you

(07:35):
know the way it was set upin Atlanta up until May of last year,
was that you could not be anactive teacher in any school district throughout
Georgia, even if you know,even if you live in Atlanta but you
teach outside of Atlanta, you wouldhave to quit your teaching job in order
to serve on the board. Andmind you, you know, it's not

(07:58):
an apples the apples compensation either,right, Like that was what my next
question, Like, is a fullsalary, it's like twenty three thousand and
then it's a part time you knowair quote part time job. And it's
really not that either. So it'snot like you could replace your teacher's salary
by taking on the role, right, So that part is not true.
But you know, it had alwaysbeen that, you know, we would

(08:20):
see folks who are you know,attorneys or coming from other professions or if
you were a teacher, which wehad some folks who were teachers won seats.
Shout out Matt Westmoreland, shout out. According to English, both of
them had to resign their teaching positionsupon winning their seat. And you know
that was true for a very longtime, and it took us, you

(08:43):
know, a year and a halfof lobbying at the state legislature. Shout
out Representative part Cannon, Shout outSenator Jason Sebez. These are two individuals
who helped push the legislation at thestate and the Senate side to change the
charter that now allows for one whodoes not work inside of APS but lives
in Atlanta to be able to serveon the board, even if you teach

(09:05):
outside of the district. And Ithink it genuinely makes sense, right,
you don't see nursing boards without nurses. You don't see medical boards without doctors
like you just you would never seethat, right, But it also creates
a class challenge though too right,because then it's about people who can afford
to not make any money into Soyou would think the state government would get
that because those positions don't make anymoney either, But it's this time.

(09:28):
It is designed that way. Ifyou look at our state legislature and you
look at what the compensation is,and you look at the time frame that
they have to work it being considereda part time job. Many of our
local positions are set up so thatonly people with privilege get the opportunity to
serve in that capacity. And whatthat does is continue to incubate power in
preferences to a select few. That'sright. So my question is what was

(09:54):
the argument like why it was setup that way? Honestly, I've never
heard anyone give me a justification forit. And to be frank with you,
I think we're at a time wherewe know that policies are not set
up in our favor. When Isay our favor, I mean the common
everyday person's favor, right, Andso when we see these policies that don't

(10:16):
go to our direction, into ourfavor, we have to be focused on
correcting it. I'm not even somuch concerned as to the historical nature as
to why it is or was whatit was, But what I do care
about is what can I do tochange it? Yes, how do I
implement a plan? And then howdo I activate and realize the change.

(10:37):
And that's what we did. Inthe state of Georgia, less than four
percent of democratically sponsored bills are passedper year and signed by the governor.
That bill, our bill did passand was signed by the governor just a
few short weeks after the passing ofmy son. That was for me an
absolute marker and a sign that wewere on to something. You know.

(11:00):
Even for me to win this seat, we wanted to run off sixty five
percent to thirty five percent against anincumbent eighty eight to eighty five percent of
the time, an incumbent always wins. So to win the way that we
did city wide, that that sayssomething. So you know, I'm extremely
encouraged that we are on the righttrack. I think it made a lot

(11:20):
of sense to people because to yourpoint, a lot of folks, you
know, the thought like, whatis not mostly teacher when y'all said that,
I was baffled. I was likewhat. A lot of people said
the same thing. They could notbelieve that. Yeah, and it goes
back to changing systems that do notwork for our people. And I want

(11:41):
to ask Shivy this and just talkingto this made national news. Parents were
really Again I gotta shout out parentswho were like, this is what we
want to see. And a lotof times, let's be quite honest,
we don't value the voices of teachers, of parents of students, and so
bringing those three areas together to saythis is what we want to do to

(12:03):
make change, Let's do that now. On the flip side of that,
we're having conversations with parents about,Okay, what do we do next,
How do we make sure that moreteachers can run. How do we make
sure that parents can run? Parentsare also teachers, right, so you
know you have both that are represented. What do we do around advocating for

(12:24):
equity for teachers in regards to pay. That's something we're going to be advocating
for at the Capitol next week whenwe take black fathers and black teachers down
to the capital. But we alsohave moms who are teachers that are talking
about maternity leave and are talking aboutpersonal days that teachers don't get. Some
school districts in Georgia only give theirteachers two personal days. So I want

(12:48):
to talk about how those stipulations canbe changed as we are now in kind
of like a movement to really rebuildand reshape systems that really allow for more
autonomy and more innovation. That happenedbefore we do that talk about the power
that the school board has. Becausewe talked about the keeping the power,
but what is this power? Whatdoes a school what can what power does

(13:09):
a school board wield? That youthat we can so people will know it's
like people here school board, andit's like, Okay, well, I
guess that's just what power I findthat. I find that very interesting,
right, I mean, even thenotion that many of us are surprised that
we don't have teachers, it's evidencethat we don't pay attention. We really
are, we really don't. Likefirst, we got to have some accountability

(13:31):
as like the citizenry, right,Like are we civically engaged when it comes
to that? And I think fora lot of us we have like civic
fatigue, right, and and solike you're you're so focused on Trump and
Biden, right, And then Okay, I'm gonna be focused on my governor.
Okay, and then I'm gonna befocused on my mayor. But then
maybe I can name some of mycity council members, But can you also

(13:54):
name your county commission and do youknow who your tax assessor is? And
then by the time you get downto the school board, it's like,
I forget about it. I'm gonnajust vote for the name that look like
somebody I would hang out with.Other pictures, the pictures that most of
the time you're not gonna see aschool board member's picture that's true, right,
Like how many school board members canyou even recognize? But that's another

(14:16):
thing too, Right, So Idon't know about local races and education as
much as I follow our shriff's racesand a lot of our judicial races and
a lot of our quote unquote nonpartisanraces within the judiciar area. But I
do pay attention to how often thoseraces usually just recycle incumbents and how few
challenges there often are, so it'snot even necessarily to show of support when
people stay where they are, there'snot a lot of times very much competition.

(14:37):
But even when there is competition,like if you have if an incumbent
has two or more challengers, they'regonna win almost every time, they're gonna
win. Right, So when youhave choice, now you're saying it's too
much choice, and then let's justbe honest about it, right, what

(14:58):
what I believe, And a lotof folks don't agree with this. There
were a lot of people who wereupset about the staggering of the aps seats
because all the school board seats there'snine seats used to be on the ballot
at the same time as the mayorand the city council, right, they
staggered them. So the odd numberseats ran on a basically an air coot

(15:20):
off year, and then the evennumber seats will run during the Mayor's race
and the city council race. Right. And so because the school board race
was the only thing on the ballothere in Atlanta, it gave folks the
opportunity to really pay attention. Nowyou could, so when I put my

(15:41):
signs out there, you're actually seeingthem. They're not getting lost in the
correct right. So that for one, gave us a real opportunity to like
hyper focus on school board for thefirst time ever. Was that a flute
though, or that that's the newmoving forward? That is how it is
now unless it ever got changed.And I hope that it never gets changed

(16:03):
because I believe that our school boarddeserves and I also think maybe our city
council should think about staggering their seatsas well. But it allows the citizenry
to really pay attention to the thingsthat matter. Now, your question was
about what's the power? What's thepower that? So the school board number
one is the most important factor whenit comes to the value of your home.

(16:26):
It also is the number one mostimportant factor when it comes to the
affordability of your home. And thisis why when you look at your property
taxes, fifty percent of your propertytax goes to the school board. Really,
twenty three percent of your property taxesgo to the county, twenty seven
percent of your property taxes go tothe city. So the school board's budget

(16:51):
here in Atlanta is one point sixseven billion dollars. The city's budget is
seven hundred and ninety million. We'remore than vice the size of the city,
but we can't name our board members. So when we talk about what
causes lack of affordability for our seniors, what causes lack of affordability for our

(17:11):
families, you would have to lookat like, well, who's costing you
the most taxes? It's your schools. Then you got to think to yourself,
well, what would get people towant to move into my neighborhood.
When you go buy a house,whether you have kids or not, you
know the school, the local school, the neighborhood school is the biggest indicator

(17:33):
for what's going to happen with thevalue of your home. If you live
in an area with successful schools,guess what there's going to be more demand
to live in your neighborhood, whichmeans the value of your home is always
going to be on the rise.If you live in an area where the
school is underperforming, you get whatyou get and then you get a lack
of development, you get a lackof investment, you get a lack of

(17:55):
other things, and you always endup in the back of the line when
it comes to bring in the new, cool stuff that attracts people to want
to move into your neighborhood. Sowhen people don't pay attention to our school
boards, whether you have children oryou don't, it is a huge blind
spot in understanding like how affordability works, how development works. And I'm sure

(18:18):
wealth the whole none, Right,you want to steal, You want to
steal black wealth, keep closing schoolsin black neighborhoods. What about the superintendent
because can you talk about what powersand that's one of the school boards functions,
right, So what's the significance ofthe super like the hierarchy, like
where where do these things fall?Yeah, and so that is honestly,

(18:38):
that is the school board has twomain focuses. They are the boss of
the superintendent and they control the budget. Right, So those are the two
things. So, like when itcomes to operational things, like you know,
you don't like your math teacher atthe local school, that's not the
school board, that's the superintendent,right, So the superintendent handles like the

(19:00):
operational things, handles the personnel thingsthat that's their purview. And so on
the school board side, we arein charge of hiring or firing and managing
the superintendent. So currently in thecity of Atlanta, we've had about five
superintendents in like the last five years, right, so there's been a lot

(19:22):
of turnover. And also let megive people some context on the superintendent as
well. You're talking about a threehundred and ninety thousand to four hundred thousand
dollars job. The superintendent makes moremoney than the president. I feel like
that much the chunk of the budgetis that a third you were just talking

(19:44):
about the budget is that one pointsixty seven billion, So it's like a
fourth quarter of the budget billion thisperson billion, three three hundred and ninety
thousand dollars to one point six sevenbillion. That's a lot of money.
It's it's sill a lot of moneythat goes into the district. Haven't been
a former district administrator in Atlanta PublicSchools. It is a lot of money

(20:08):
in the Central Office. I willsay this as a school board member is
sitting here. I would like forthe board the challenge the new superintendent to
rethink and reshape the central Office.The central Office is not welcoming the families,
even though it is most central downtown, it's close to the transportation.

(20:30):
One of the things that parents saidis, and we had doctor Battle on
her first day, swarned and speakto the operation of the district wide family
center in Atlanta Public Schools should bemade a great point about affordability and community
development. We know that Atlanta isa lot of people will argue that it's
not, but it ranks as beingnumber one the most inequitable city for black

(20:52):
and brown people to move to economicallybut also educationally. Now, when I
think about us not having a centerthat brings people in, if the central
Office sent the whole sixth floor outto schools, that would give us additional
resources of some of the top teachers, because let's be honest, most teachers
have gone into leadership positions. Iwould love us to have a superintendent who

(21:15):
really reimagines how we are actually utilizingthose dollars that are staying in that building
and going actually into the schools,yes, into parents' pockets to get high
doses tutoring for these kids that havelearning gaps, but also to get more
money into the pockets of the workingpoor that are in Atlanta Public schools with

(21:37):
your bus drivers and apparent liaisons andcafeteria workers and front off of the people
that we depend on to operate theschools. Keisha lance Bottom said at best
in the recent post when she wastalking about the anniversary of the snowstorm that
happened, I want to say,may no, all of these people working
poor were left in schools. Theywere the ones left on highways and stuff,

(22:02):
being away from their families because theywere the people making sure much like
the pandemic that everybody else survived.So I wanted to just hear your thoughts
on how the superintendent hopefully that willbe hired to coming in will really help
reshape Atlanta Public schools and take usinto that. That's also that's also on
it falls on our board, right. So the way our budget is currently

(22:26):
structured, sixty percent of our fundsgo towards the central office, mean while
forty percent of the funds go downto the schools. Jeez, right,
so we are extremely top heavy,yes, extremely top heavy, right,
And those numbers can be a bitskewed because when we look at funding for
our charters and things like that,that too is included in what they consider
the central office funding. Right.So there's that part, right, And

(22:52):
so I think what it is iswe really need to have a review of
a lot of these central office positionsthat exists, and we got to have
an honest conversation about what's necessary andwhat's not. That's good because I know
what it's like to be a teacherright now, right, And I get,
you know, tasked to have todo a thing one way and then

(23:15):
I got to replicate it for anotherperson. And a lot of the things
that we're asked to do are simplyjustifications for somebody's job. This is true,
no, you, I mean,I would challenge the board to reassess
the central office. I have beena district administrator, so I know exactly
what he said. I've seen.I know people still down there who are

(23:36):
getting paid very good money and teachersare having to work over time to send
in paperwork sending justification to send inall of these different reports in order for
us to justify grants. And whilewe have this, and while we're doing
this, and there's a better wayof doing it, But this is an
economic issue, yes, because ifwe look at the history of Atlanta,

(24:00):
and major shout out to Skip Mason, he is always highlighting our history in
Atlanta, it was teachers and educators. Even if we look at America's history
and how black people have thriven,Atlanta has always been known as a center
for education. So to think thatwe have teachers and educators in this city
who cannot afford to live in thecity that are having to I want to

(24:22):
take us here too, because Ijust went to in the state sale for
a family of educators who are havingto sell their grandparents' home because they can't
afford to maintain They can't afford tokeep it because they've also been pushed out
of the city. And these areteachers in Atlanta public schools. So this

(24:44):
is happening to black families in Atlanta. So how do we shift this?
Wait before y'all move, why arewe having such issue with superintendents, because
clearly we're talking abou how much theymake. So why do you think we're
having such issues with keeping superintendent?It's because of lack of job performance.
What do we allow me to tapin on what Jason as and I promise
you I'm gonna spend a block onwhat you're asking. The truth of the

(25:07):
matter is teachers are underpaid because itis a female dominated feel America does not
value the work of teachers because itdoes not value the work of women,
right, And that is true whenyou look at any female dominated fiel.
Yes, I'm here speaking as aneducator, but as a black man,
I only represent one point three percentof all teachers. Eighty percent of our

(25:30):
teachers are white women. Twelve percentof all teachers are black folks, right,
And so it just it should giveyou all just a better understanding of
the fact that in many ways Istand as like a unicorn in the space.
Right now, I have the privilegeof working at a school where thirty
three percent of all of our teachersare men, right, And it's something

(25:53):
we don't see in many spaces.And one of the things that I love
about where I am shout out toCharles Drew High School. But for me,
one of the things that I campaignedon and everybody in Central Office knows
because I stay ten toes about thisevery time we have conversations, is that
we will be setting up a compensationplan for our teachers to get the base

(26:15):
salary to sixty five thousand dollars.Now, is it ultimately where I would
love us to be. No,not yet. However, currently we're starting
our teachers at fifty four thousand,and hug considers you to be low income
if you make less than fifty seventhousand, So we literally are hiring our
teachers into poverty. That's powerful andI take deep issue with that. And

(26:37):
mind you, I take issue withthat as a teacher who works in Clayton
County making less than an APS teachertoday, if not for the privilege of
being a successful entrepreneur in the educationspace and other things like that, I
wouldn't be able to do the thingsthat I do. So those of us
who have the privilege and those ofus who have the opportunity have to take
on the responsibility. And I standon that. The other thing too,

(27:00):
is you're correct our teachers listen,we say it about police officers, we
get better community police and when theylive in the neighborhood. Well, what
you take it is to about education? If the teacher lived in the neighborhood,
don't you think you would get bettereducation if the teachers in the grocery
store next to you, and youthere with your mama and you've been acting
up all day. It's a verydifferent kind of energy, right. And

(27:22):
So one of the things that I'mgoing to be focused on is getting Atlanta
into something that has never done before. They proposed last year this Master Surplus
Facility Strategic Plan where they had allthese facilities that APS is allowed to become
blighted properties over the course of decades, decades in predominantly neighborhoods that look like

(27:45):
us, right. And so whatI would like to see happen, and
what I'm going to be challenging usto do, is creating affordable housing for
teachers and families so that teachers canafford to live in the city they serve
in. And I believe that ifwe are intentional about that, then combined
with increasing their compensation as well asproviding a pathway for them to be able

(28:07):
to afford to live in our cityand quality housing, then we start to
turn things around. We got someculture issues that need to be addressed,
and it will and be addressed bythat. To your point about the superintendent
turnover nationwide, the average tenure fora large urban city superintendent is two and

(28:29):
a half years two and a halfyears. The reason why I believe the
turnover is so high is because youhave people who are governing these boards,
who are the hirers or the firersof these superintendents, who have never worked
in schools a day in their life. And when you have not worked in
a school, your understanding of whathow long it takes to realize progress academic

(28:55):
progress is different. You think,you know what if we is all this
person and they put in these interventionsbeing microwave change, and it doesn't work
that way. Change in education hasto be marinated. It's got to be
preheated, it's got to be putin the oven. And we all know
little oven cooking better than microwave cooking. But it takes more time. Yeah,

(29:18):
it takes more time. And ifwe don't have the patience to realize
change over time, then we willcontinue to try to microwave deep frost and
microwave cook everything. And they hatehow it tasts. All the knowledge.
What you're talking about is just lackof knowledge, like just lack of the
lived experience. There's like learn experienceand lived experience. So absolutely seems like

(29:38):
a knowledge gap. And the timethat we have, I do you want
to talk about academics too. Someof you said you want to talk about
the campaign and like you're like ahistorical figure essentially, Well, they're knowing
because they may want to talk more. So I'm might have to give us
a little bit more time, okay, But the academic piece in and of
itself. So I think some ofthe conversations we've had in the last year
or two that have probably even comeclose to touching on school boards have been

(29:59):
more about just tangentially touching it becausewe've been talking about content, and we've
been talking a little bit about controversialcurriculum and divides again on curriculum and different
opinions about curriculum, And can youtalk about where the school board is or
has been when it comes to issuesthat have concerned some parents, whether it's
about sex or identity or race.I don't know if those Maybe you would

(30:22):
speak to that more so as ateacher and in your capacity as a teacher
what that's been like to be atthe forefront of So just to make clear
the difference between me being a teacherand the difference of being a board member.
A lot of people believe like thecurriculum is under the school boards control,
and it's not. That is underthe purview of the superintendent, right

(30:45):
So, and that to that lendsthat scope of my life that is not
the business that we're into. However, as an education advocate, a teacher
activist, if you will, parent, you know, yes, but I've
always been a disruptor in that way. Right There's a concept of good trouble

(31:07):
for a reason, and so alot of you know, if anyone follows
me on Instagram or on TikTok,you know, you folks always see me
wearing shirts with messages, you know, saying things like, don't be afraid
to teach black history, I loveband books, things to that effect.
My classroom, even just the setupof my classroom, which has a myriad

(31:30):
of flags all over the place,but even me having a Pride flag that
says everyone is welcome here on it. These are things that to some are
considered you know, controversial. You'renot supposed to do it, right,
but I believe that. You know, sometimes you got to be willing to
get in good trouble. Sometimes yougot to be willing to stand firm on

(31:52):
what you know is right, evenif the times say otherwise. And so
for me, you know, I'vealways been a person who's about pushing the
envelope. But what is the actualconsequence within the classroom, it's, you
know, me having a student who'safraid to be out about who they are,
knowing that they are welcome in thatspace, and willing to be transparent

(32:15):
about who they are because they knowthey are accepted and loved in value regardless.
And for me, that is invaluableAnd I could never change how I
show up, regardless of what theconsequences are, because I know how much
that matters for that kid who needsthat, who probably has nowhere else to
be that. Do you think we'llsee some of the same conversations happening in

(32:39):
aps that we've seen in cob recentlyBecause you mentioned banned books, right,
so that I merely started thinking aboutother places, and it's like, I'm
sure it does look very different indifferent places, absolutely, But Atlanta as
a whole is Atlanta maybe safe fromsome of those conversations where no, I
mean, it's already happening when welook at the renaming of some of the
schools, in particular the renaming ofGraded High School to Midtown. Let's not

(33:02):
also forget that one of the topnames for the school was named after black
journalists, so that in itself broughtup so much controversy as to well,
why do we need to rename itand what is the historical context? Like
all of these conversations came up,I'm sharing that to say that Atlanta is
not exempt from racial injustice because wesee it happening, of course in our

(33:27):
communities, but it's definitely happening inour school Now, I would to your
position as a school board membershould beI want to maybe pivot as to this.
We have the APS Archive Museum.Now I'm old school with APS.
Not only did I teach the historyof Atlanta and our schools to my students,
my teachers did that for me.I know that there is a disconnect.

(33:49):
Now I'm wanting to see how theschool board, if this is a
purview under the school board, tomaybe create some type of partnership, and
I believe we have one. Maybealready with PBS and the AUC, but
to actually utilize that history center toteach the students and aps the history of
our school system, why our schoolsare named after, who they're named after,

(34:14):
notable people who have come through ourschools, et cetera, and so
forth. Yeah, what role wouldthe school board play and helping maybe utilize
dollars or partnerships for that center toactually be used to teach that for our
students. Yeah, No, Ithink we have a lot of opportunity.
I mean, the school board hasits own radio network, WABE, we

(34:36):
have partnerships with PBS, as younoted, and you know that archive room.
You know, I get in aweright now just kind of having the
freedom to really just kind of bein there and take it in myself.
My buzzcard works for the door.It's kind of nice and in taking and
taking it in. But I thinkyou know that that knowledge of our stories,

(35:04):
as specifically Black folks, it's sopowerful. You know, we come
from Grio culture where storytelling is ourhistorical currency, and I think it's one
of those things that we really needto return to a lot of our babies.
When and one knock I have onmy gen ZS and Gen Alpha whatever
we call them, the younger babiesnow, is that they have they have

(35:30):
less value for historical knowledge, rightthey have they kind of feel like,
man, if it ain't hot rightnow, it don't matter, right And
it's that that insta that micro what'sright now kind of thing. And and
I think that is that is totheir detriment, right that when we we

(35:52):
have knowledge of where we came fromand why. And that was my favorite
part of our campaign and uh,this time around, specifically spending a lot
more time in the black churches throughoutthe city because I got to realize,
oh, that's why that's named that, that's why this is that, that's
who you are, that too,that is you, you come direct,

(36:14):
and these families are still here,yeah, still here every day and the
ain't a grocery store with you.And you know, having that knowledge gives
you a very different respect in regardfor who we are. And I feel
like a lot of our babies aredisconnected from that, that historical perspective that
I think would make them stand alittle straighter, stand a little taller,

(36:35):
walk with a little bit more purposeand intention than we're seeing right now.
Okay, so least two things.Number one the agenda for the school board,
like what's on it currently, andnumber two campaigning. So let's go
there. Yeah, so I'll tapin on the first question the agenda,

(36:58):
and then I'll allow you to kindof to, you know, ask me
what it is you want to knowon the campaign and tip. But right
now, hiring our next superintendent islike number one most important thing. So
we have an interim now, Sowe have an interim superintendent, the lovely
doctor Battle, who has been inAPS for some a good time, has

(37:21):
made really good impact and she'd bedoing a great job in this interim role.
Come May June ish, we shouldyou know, have our new hire
finalized. And so right now Ithink that we just closed the application for
the superintendent just like a week ortwo ago. It closed on the twelfth.

(37:42):
Don't let me mess up to dates, but it was on the twelfth
we closed the application. So nowwe will start getting the first opportunity to
see who some of our applicants areand figuring out how we're going to engage
community to be a part of theprocess as well. So that is the
that's the number one most important thingWe're going to do this year right.
But then too, we've got otherthings that are coming down around nutrition switching

(38:08):
from you know, having a thirdparty company handling you know, lunches and
breakfasts to now bringing these folks inhouse. And I'm right there with you
for me, we do it.I'm at actually the school that I teach
at is in the APS space becausethey're always talking about APS and us kind
of being on the same page.So actually a vested interest. But these

(38:28):
third party veners are terrible. Like, we had lunch thirty minutes late yesterday,
which you teach so I have smallerkids, so imagine hearing I'm hungry
challenge the science lesson right, andit's been like this. I think we're
going through two or three vendors sinceif you're hungry, Yeah, especially smaller
kids, they're not trying to hearit. So yeah, we need to
fix that. I'm curious about theeconomic impacts though, So if we move

(38:49):
away from third party and it goesback, maybe not to what it originally
was, but I'm kind of maybeforeseeing cafeteria, what will they also be
able to be compensated more for beingable to have the autonomy to go and
fix meals. I mean either questionsthat parents are asking you. They're also
asking about will this allow for morecommunities to apply for grants to have community

(39:12):
gardens where the schools can actually beconnected to food deserts, And so parents
have a lot of really good ideasand questions around this, and I just
wanted to throw it out there sincewe're talking about it. Yeah, because
everyone is really concerned about nutrition,So what is maybe some thoughts around how
this can have yeah, some economicimpacts and also maybe but they're looking more
uniformed. Sounds more ideal to methat it looks more uniformed, especially,

(39:37):
you know, because if you're acharter school and you have a great third
party and we are, and wedon't have a great third party, it's
not these not giving. So Ithink something more uniformed I would probably be
more favor because I said, Ihave smaller kids after third grade, and
I share a hall with some othersmaller kids, and when they're hungry,
they're not trying to hear you,and they don't want to hear nothing.

(39:57):
You have to say. All you'regonna continuously get is I'm hungry. I'm
hungry. It makes it there evenwith breakfast. Like a lot of these
kids, which we've all had thatconversation, a lot of these kids don't
eat at home. So getting toschool first thing that wanted breakfast is what
they're looking for because they probably didn'tget it or lunch, knowing they'd probably
get another meal throughout the night.It's very vital. But then when you
get to high school where I aim, you have a number of kids who

(40:20):
won't eat the food, right,and so there's a lot of negative consequences
from that. So now you gotkids getting door dash and uber east pulling
up to the sign right, absolutelyright, or you have kids who will
leave the school to go get foodand it's not open campus, right,
so they're not supposed to be doingthis. And how many other issues happen

(40:45):
from that? Off site issues,off site dangers, that type of thing,
right, And why is it happeningbecause the quality of the food is
it giving right? Sop? Notgiving right? So I for me,
I think this is one of theareas where we don't pay enough attention.
Yeah, right, like it kindof goes and let's keep it real.

(41:06):
Like parents, we advocate for thestuff we can see and we can feel
it's not always first in mind,like how would your lunch today? This
is true, you know what Imean. But I actually believe you can.
You can determine how good the qualityof the food is at a school
site. If the teachers eat it, that's good, that's good. I'm

(41:28):
I'm very lazy, so typically withthe kids eat unless it's just not bearable,
then I'm like, yeah, I'mnot eating that, so I guess
I'll start to like get home.So yeah, that's true. That's very
true. Because if the cafeteria staffhas a go to spot off site where
it's like, okay, we're gonnatake everybody. I know, I know
the game, I know how itworks. So you're right, if the
teachers, if the staff members arenot eating the food, they'll tell you

(41:49):
something. Yeah, it tells yousomething. And so a lot of my
questions of recent you know, inmind, you I've only been in the
role twenty something days. I haven'tbeen in there a full month yet,
right, but a lot of myquestions already are around quality of food.
How do we ensure it? Y'allknow, y'all gonna give us a taste
testing, but I don't you know, don't put the extra razzle down,

(42:12):
you're well. And then two,I want to see the full plate presentation.
Right, I don't just want thesample. I want to see what
it looks like. Because there havebeen times I walk into the cafeteria my
own school and I said, I'mlike, man, what is that?
Why is the ranch jiggling? Likewhat's what's happening right now? Right?
I mean I have serious my ownperson, but my own personal investments in

(42:35):
why we gotta do better when itcomes to food. And I'm here to
tell you for the young people's experience, it matters to the kids when we
when we are intentional about making surethat nutrition is top quality. And let
me just call it what it is, that the food is good. Right,
that tells, That tells the kidyou value me. But let's be

(42:59):
honest too. In public education,public housing, public transportation, there's a
stigma, right. The stigma hasalways been since it's been changed where the
food was cooked for mom and theminside the community, that if it's being
funded by us through these different programs, that it should be the bare minimum
because these kids are coming from areasthat we consider to be less than.

(43:22):
But think, I don't think ina city like Atlanta, where we have
the tax revenue that we have foreducation one point six billion dollars. Right,
Like the folks at the city Hallain't eating bare minimum food in their
food court. Facts, right,they're not. The folks down at the

(43:44):
State House when they go, whenthey go eat, when they go eat
a sloppy floyd across the street,they're not getting bare minimum food. They're
not. So why do we relegateour children to that? Right? Like,
I just I don't know, Likefor me, if that is the

(44:05):
norm and has been the norm,then when will we disrupt it? And
why not? Now? Why not? Now? Agreed completely? We have
to we have to reject that.I don't know, I know, I'm
looking at the clocks. I'm tryingto be conscious. We didn't get to
talk to the other guests later,so we didn't get to talk about like
clearly this take about academic standards anda little bit about take too long.

(44:31):
No, it's gonna take too long, that's gonna be We got about to
get pictures and stuff, so wegot about four minutes. And I know
that that black woman let that blackwoman get her questions. That's a long
you just yeah, because I knowwhat policy priority for for the city and
has been, and and maybe evenjust that I don't know if it's racial

(44:52):
gaps in literacy and reading levels forblack students and white students. So you're
when I'm I want to be clearabout your ques, just the prioritization and
anything that you'd want to say toit, because I do believe during the
actual races this came up quite abit, like the conversation around literacy.
Yeah, about literacy and reading belowcertain levels. So again, this is
one of those areas where like theoutcomes aren't given with what we want them

(45:15):
to give, right, But Ithink there's two conversations to have. So
Number one, yes, literacy tome and to many others has to be
key priority when it comes to likethe outcome we're focused on the most.
But I also feel like we can'tjust continue to look at things like in
this big cannon. I think wegot to drill down to like the part
that matters. And I think,you know, if we could, if

(45:37):
we could be hyper focused on whatare the literacy outcomes for black boys in
third grade? Okay, right,if we can drill it down, because
that tends to be that year thattime where you know, things can can
go the right way or it cango the wrong. Oh yeah, right.
And also the truth is is thatwe have to be hyper focused on

(45:59):
the least of the right, ourbabies who are not performing the way that
they should be. Right. Butthen too, there's another conversation around like
standardized testing outcomes. A lot ofpeople hyper focus on SAT scores, ACT
scores, things like that, andI think that is a gross mistake.
Truth be told, standardized testing wasnever set up for black children to perform

(46:22):
well. A lot of people arevery unaware of just the historical nature of
standardized tests and standardized tests. Andstarted with the Alpha Beta tests with the
United States military, right, andthe purpose of it was to ensure that
black officers could not reach certain levelsbecause they would not perform well on some
of these aptitude tests. The samearchitects of the Alpha Beta tests are the

(46:45):
same architects of the SAT. Andfurthermore, if you don't believe, if
people don't believe that it is notdesigned for our students to perform well,
I want you all to take inthis. If too many students perform well
on the standardized test, you knowwhat they do to the test, reset
it, change it. So ifit's if it's actually intended for our kids

(47:07):
to perform, well, why wouldwe move the bar every time they do
well? Right? It is aone point seven billion dollar industry testing,
right, and it is a lotof money that gets funded into the McGraw
hills, the Piersons, etcetera,etcetera, etcetera. Right, and so
it's really a money play and Ireally want us to like And then two

(47:29):
here here goes the other part.If you had to come to Jesus conversation
with kids about testing, if youwere to ask them, hey, how
many times you're done sat down atthat test and Christmas Tree that thing and
just put anything down, a lotof them would tell you they did right.
I think culturally we do have tohave a conversation, like, if

(47:50):
we're gonna have to be in thisgame, we're gonna have to have a
real conversation with our kids about howto play it right because a lot of
our kids are not taking these testsserious. And then when the data comes
out, everybody takes the data serious. So everyone believes this is a credible
understanding of what our kids know andwhat they don't know. And I'm here

(48:13):
to tell everybody it ain't true.It ain't true. Our kids know a
lot more than what they're showing onthese tests. But also these tests are
not culturally responsive or culturally relevant tothe children, to all of the children
who are taking these tests. Whenyou give a kid a Woodford test,
which helps determine whether or not theyneed to be eligible for special d right,

(48:37):
they'll ask questions like they'll show youa picture of a man with a
white garment, white fabric across hisbody, and they'll ask you what is
this? Now, kids coming fromour culture will have no idea. But
if you knew anything about Greek mythologyand those type of things, that's a

(49:00):
toga. Right. They'll show youa little dude with a cone hat on
it and a beard and these smallerin stature, and we would know that's
a known right, but they wantyou to identify that as a lawn ornament.
Seriously, I'm serious. These arethese are on the tests today?

(49:22):
Is relative? Right? Wow?That's my point, right? And so
we we are determining eligibility or lackof comprehension on many of these tests,
many of these subject matters, manyof these things when they are not relevant
to the kids who are taking itright, and so then their their performance

(49:44):
is lesser or lower than others,and then we really believe, like,
man, these kids really just ain'tgot it. Just the I know,
on time, but also the connectionto special education, because now that's the
whole conversation I really do want tohave when we're exposing that we know that
these tests are racially in biased.Right, we know all of these things.
So testing is a billion dollar industryin one bread just like we acknowledge

(50:07):
this, and Okay, we're goingto abolish Let's say we're going to abolish
testing, but somebody still has tomake money. So I want to make
the connection to the fact that thespecial education test is key in all of
this, because we also know thatblack children, especially more like black and
brown children also, but black children, especially black boys ranked number one being

(50:29):
disproportionately represented in special education programs.Because again, special education has changed from
we really want to help kids whohave physical disabilities, mental disabilities to now
focusing more on more things that areemotional, like you don't want to sit
down and read, you want tostand up. You prefer the color than

(50:49):
to use a p. So we'relooking on things like this to say the
kids are different, they are lessthan, they're dumb in a sense.
Right, that's what they're telling blackand brown children because special education is going
to be the next billion dollar industrywhere it's going to be testing, and
it's going to be programming, it'sgoing to be all of these things to
make us feel like our kids needthis because we have used testing too.

(51:13):
But tell them that they're less than. And it's ridiculous because if anyone who
is an educator knows in order tobe effective, they always push that you
have to differentiate your lesson, right, And for those that don't know,
that essentially means you have to provideinformation in a way where your tactical learners
can get the learning, where yourvisual learners can get the learning, where
your auditory learners can get the learning. And you got to do it all

(51:35):
at the same time a lot oftime. And then and then you tell
the kids to prove their competence rightin a standardized way. It does not
make sense, and we do notoffer our young people the opportunity to prove
their proficiency through their own intelligencies.Right. So, if you are a

(52:00):
visual person who can express themselves visually. You don't get the opportunity to do
that if you're an auditory person,which most of us are auditory because we
come from Grio culture. It's whowe are through our DNA, you don't
get that opportunity. And so byus we are using very inauthentic methods to
prove proficiency and competence, and itis why we get a lot of the

(52:22):
outcomes that we get. Nineteen twentyone model of educating kids, it's twenty
twenty four. All right, nobodyelse to say anything else, because y're
trying to carry is way too far. Final thoughts, I just want to
thank you all for creating a spacethat allows us to have these authentic conversations
and dig deeper than I think someof the surface level conversations. This is

(52:45):
how we get change. And Iencourage you all to keep keeping on and
doing what you're doing because this isabsolutely needed. Thank you. My final
thoughts are to the people that yes, we got this brother on the school
board of the elected, but thework does not stop there. We got
to make sure they are supported.We hold these people accountable the most importantly,

(53:07):
we are really putting a lens onwhat's happening with our children, because
they are the future. No,I want to thank you for paving a
path, not just I'm not talkingabout your current role necessarily, but even
how you had to come into yourcurrent role, right and like the bearers
that you had to knock down,which means that more people can come behind
you, right, Like, that'sa big deal. And there's so much
who we did not get a chanceto get in. We have so many
questions about mental health. PARTO.Yeah, we have to so, but

(53:30):
I appreciate, appreciate so much whatwe did get again too. Yeah,
like I said, now that I'ma teacher, I have a vested interest
and I share the aps space.So it's very interesting to see what happens
because it does directly affect me.Thanks to you, both of you for
coming. And yeah, this hasto be a part too, because there
are a lot of questions I didn'tget to ask either because I was very
curious about a lot of other stuff. But I didn't realize we'd opened so

(53:51):
many cans of worms, and Iknow there were so many cans of worms.
So definitely part two. So wewill see you guys the same place,
same time. All the leadership inlive podcasts with the Holspere call device