Dr. Zackory Kirk

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
All right, everybody, welcome toanother edition Other Leadership Been Live podcast.
We think Hostreecrity Rights and my cohost. All right, I'm not gonna
say special guests. He's been hereonce, so she've been here one.
You're like family, so I'm letthim reintroduce herself. We're gonna go from
there. Everybody, Look, howare you doing on? Zad gred Kirk,
content creator, educator and just allaround good guy. So you know,
we like when he's here because thenwe can just have like conversations,

(00:22):
conversations. So we definitely had havhimback because it's time for just have conversations,
conversations. So what we start withon the rundown some moon. So
we're gonna start talking about eligibility forthe twenty twenty four election and a former
president. So we're gonna get intorecent Supreme Court excuse me, recent judicial
decisions. We're gonna talk about whatthe implications of those are, a little
bit about the races in twenty twentyfour, why people have forgotten I think

(00:43):
that it's an election year in somerespects, and then we'll talk about Georgia
and what we think Georgia is goingto be like anything else that comes up
along the way. I think it'sfair game two. We can talk about
Fannie as well if you care too, since I mean, I'm just disappointed.
I'm just disappointed, So I won'teven start. I'll just talk about
my disappointment later. I just wantlater. So Zach gonna let choose.

(01:06):
So what are we hearing in discreets? Are is from Democrats and Republicans?
What does it look like? Whatdoes the political landscape look like? Because,
like I said, I think alot of us did forget. I
don't remember to the other day thatthis is a presidential election year. Like
it just seems seems somewhat underwhelming.Yeah, like we're still in the multiverse
and things are just kind of swirlingaround, and you got Nikki out here

(01:26):
saying this, and then this Satandecides he it just said, there's so
much going on. Usually by nowit will seem more clean. By now,
knowing that we're in February of anelection year, it would seem more
clean. We'd be more clarified bywho's on the Democratic ticket, who's on
the Republican ticket. I just we'restill kind of up in the air.
So I guess That's another reason whyair we see there is no there is

(01:47):
absolutely no question that the twenty twentyfour presidential election is between our president,
Joseph Robin at Biden and the formerpresident of your America who was in peace
twice, who lost re election intwenty twenty, Donald John Trump. That's
it. Those are the candidates.What too many people have done is give

(02:12):
as we've always done. It hasbeen what we have traditionally done. We
have looked to mainstream and legacy newsmedia to inform us, and they are
no longer able to do that atthe way that the American people deserve.
They are beholden to their financial interest. We are living in the world of
massive misinformation and continuing disinformation, andwe have not been trained to critically think

(02:40):
through what we are given from aninformational standpiece. And as a result of
that, that is why it seemslike things are up in the air.
That is why it seems like thereare options, but there are not.
You have two choices on the table, and the American people are going to
have to decide which of those twochoices they are going to make. When
I come to the table, Icome to this table as a black man,

(03:01):
and I have to decide from thetwo options that are being presented to
me, what is the best optionsfor the communities of which I live in
and which I stand in. Andunfortunately, my community has been under a
continuous attack since twenty sixteen, whenRepublican operative Steve Bannon said that his number
one goal for the next ten yearswas to take twenty percent of the black

(03:23):
mail population and turn them over intothe hands of Republican voters. And he
knew that if he did that,he would have finally been able to dismantle
the largest voting block that is loyaland beholding the Democratic Party, and therefore
therefore would have the ability to erodethe power of not only the black vote,
of not only the black community,but of the opportunities that Democrats will

(03:45):
have to win reelection or win electionsin general. And that has been its
focus. And now we're seeing theeighth year of this effort, and you're
seeing them gain, You're seeing themgarners some wins because they are using people,
using platforms that we would have neverthought they would be able to use
to their benefit, to their goals, and it's working. It's having an

(04:08):
impact. When you have mouthpieces likeCharlottemagne, the gasf Fly, you know,
Leonard McKelvey. I refuse to callthis man of God of anything little.
When you have Leonard McKelvey, andwhen you have reputable journalists like Angelo
Rye and uh I think something AndrewGillim. When you have people that that
we trust in the black community nowdoing the dirty work of the Republican Party,

(04:32):
even on the side, to getto garner their forty pieces of silver
in their pockets, you know,it really leads to concern and misinformation out
there. And that's that's kind ofwhat we are. It's it's a lot
to be said about when you mentionedthe one white Republican, the one white
cis male Republican person who has madethe made the prophecy and had the ability

(04:53):
to swing an entire Because we're talkingabout this with the Harvard uh with the
former president, well, with thePresident Department, we're talking about that that
statement that was made about just howcomplete it would be to just say a
thing and then just watch things justjust completely unap I think part of this
too is like people trying to followthe legal system in a way that we

(05:14):
don't. I don't think follow itas closely. But for a person who
has so many dozens of felonies andso many different so many lawsuits occurring all
at once and co occurring all atonce across the country that are personal and
about his personage and his prior activities, that are also about the fourteenth Amendment,
and these various state supreme courts makingdecisions, it's also just a lot
of mess to follow. I think, I think it's more mess than we're

(05:35):
used to following in a presidential election, which is normally not almost non existent,
but it lives in the debate cycleand a few things that occur in
between debates, and we sit backand we observe it. But there is
again such a mess going on betweenfor Trump locally in different states and then
also nationally. So I guess oneof the questions that I have here is

(05:59):
in California, the lieutenant governor,very shortly after Colorado made its decision,
was debating. I think the lieutenantgovernor said, we need to explore every
single legal option to determine if thisperson should be on the primaries, this
person should be on the ballot,and I think ultimately determined that he would
be on the ball in California,Maine, in Colorado have already decided that
he would not be on the ballot, but there's an appeal. Yeah,

(06:20):
I know that's happened an upcoming week. So I guess. I guess since
we've had conversations before about whether ornot a person could be in jail and
be president and have determined that it'scertainly you know, a thing, even
if it means that the vice presidentbecomes, you know, the acting sort
of a person. What can wetake what do you think we can take
about this? For folks who arenot necessarily in support of Trump right,

(06:42):
who may have turned out, youknow, four years ago, are they
Do you feel like those people aregoing to turn out again this year?
Do you think that happened? No, I don't think. I think.
I don't think that we're going tohave a large voter turnout. We're not
going to have twenty results in twentytwenty four because on end, you have
a lot of disaffected, uh,disaffected Republican voters as they should be.

(07:04):
They they're you know, what weget thrown in front of us as the
as the exemplar of Republican people.It may be the main. It may
be the majority, but it's notall. All Republicans are not Maga Republicans.
All Republicans are not in favor ofsupporting Donald Trump. You have a
whole entire mass movement of never Trumpersthat existed in twenty sixteen that have grown

(07:30):
in their numbers as we are nowin twenty twenty four. So those people
are still there, and they arestill Republicans, and they still hold Republican
values, and they're still beholden tothat party. Are they're not going to
vote, They're not going to votefor Well, the many of the never
Trumpers are supporting President Biden. Manyof those people are supporting President Biden because
Niko Heitlle leaning too far to theright and too far into the rhetoric of

(07:54):
the Trump world. So a lotof those people are going to be they're
considered, they're they're considering who they'regoing to vote for, the kind of
torn But many of them know NickiHaley, Nikki Haley is not a factor
in twenty twenty four. I don'teven personally feel as though she should be
a part of many conversations. Sheis not going to win the nomination unless
the Republican Party makes a huge nationalpivot that I can foresee them making any

(08:18):
time. Silk So to me,talking about her and the things that she
says and the things that she's doneis pointless. But for Democrats, isn't
it more significant though? Because she'sshe was polling this week very closely.
Yeah, bringing up about Biden.It depends on what pose you look at.
That's true. Mainstream news media isgoing to find the one. There

(08:39):
could be ten posts conducted and therecould be non posts saying that Biden is
going to beat Nicki Haley. Butif there's one pole that is Nikki Haley
beats Bided, they're going to pullthat out and they're going to throw that
in front of the American people becausethat supports their goal of more clicks,
more views, and more rage farmingand to to to elicit an emotional response
from the American people that are eitherstanding with because we can't forget President Biden

(09:01):
won by the largest popular vote majorityin the history of American politics. This
man be Donald John Trump by sevenmillion votes in this nation. Seven million
more people voted for him than votingfor Trump. So all of those rage
farming tax from mainstream media garners themcliques, views and more dollars advertisers,
when they're losing those dollars at arapid rate to influencers to other forms of

(09:24):
media. That's like, like,what you're doing, you know you're able
to garner those funds easier than mainstreammedia right now because people are more focused
on listening to the voices of whatyou guys are doing on podcasts like this,
and they're listening to MSNBC enjoy readingthe games that she's playing right now.
So you know, you wouldn't describeDemocratic voters as disaffected voters, at
least at this point. Some are. There is a growing number of gen

(09:48):
Z voters who are becoming who aredisenfranchised and because of the issues they see
that they want immediate resolve to what'shappening in the Middle East. It's having
a significant impact on gen Z votersand on voters of color in general.
A part of that is the wellorchestrated social media efforts of the people who

(10:13):
are in favor of what of afree Palestine, and as it should be
right, you need to use everyresource available to you for the end of
war, for the end of genocidefor the end of the slaughter of your
people, and so let's having ahuge and massive impact, and the Democratic
Party doesn't know how to handle thatand doesn't have a strategy to combat And

(10:33):
I want to while I'm on thismight go a record for saying I one
hundred percent am in favor of andsupport a free Palestine. But at the
same time, I'm also one hundredpercent in favor of a safe and secure
Israel. And I think that thereare the majority of Democrats in this country
who are around my age who feelthe exact same way. We want to

(10:54):
see a free Palatine. We wantto see a safe and secure Israel.
We want a two state solution toexist in that in the middle in the
Middle East. But that's not whatwe're seeing and that's not the rhetoric that's
being put out there. And Ithink it's going to have a detrimental effect
on some pockets of the Democratic Party, specifically on gen Z and I think
so very heavy in the black communityand people of color in general. So

(11:16):
what do you hurt the Democratic Party? It's going to hurt Biden and it
is, there's no it's too isthere's no question about it. That has
hurt and will continue to hurt himas we approach November twenty twenty four.
So what do you think if wewere to do an election today, who
do you think would win? PresidentBiden would win today. There's no question
about it. So you don't haveany I have no no. I think
that President Biden would. I don'tthink he's gonna win Georgia. I don't

(11:39):
think he's going to win Michigan.But I think that this man is absolutely,
with no question, going to winthe majority of the popular vote.
And I think that he would winthe general election as well because he's going
to I think he would win acrossthe board. But fair enough, I
would still love to see Georgia remain. I would love to see Georgia one
again. One again. Yeah,but I'm just saying it ain't gonna happen.
So I mean in Georgia. What'sthat like? What is the hang

(12:03):
up here? I think that Okay. So here's one comment that I was
making because I was listening to aconversation about this on I think Pod Save
the People a while ago, andI think it talks a little bit about
the timing of the campaigning that wasgoing on, and the Biden campaign getting
out to a couple of HBCUs ordoing some of the rounds in South Carolina,
feeling like very Johnny come lately ontheir part, don't. I don't

(12:24):
know if that's necessarily true, andI but again, we do kind of
pay attention to what's going on.But that said, I also do I
do feel there's a lot that Iwould like to hear followed up on from
maybe around this time four years ago. I would like to hear college and
student loan debt addressed by the administration, because those were conversations that were happening
I think around the time four yearsago. And I don't think that entirely

(12:48):
new conversations are going to satisfy peoplewho might feel those affected who did turn
out to vote for Biden. ButI also haven't heard that conversation. But
it's been happening from the beginning ofthe Biden administration until now. The problem
is this is the problem. Itgoes back to mainstream news media. We're
sitting here looking for MSNBC to tellthe story. We're sitting here looking for
CNN and tell the story because theyalways have done that. But they are

(13:09):
no longer in service to the peoplein that same way they are in services
themselves. If you have been followingcarefully and closely, which I know you
have, but I also know thatthe majority of the black community has not.
President Biden and Secretary of Education MiguelCordona has done everything within their power

(13:31):
thus far to give the American peoplethe student debt relief that so many Americans
seek. It was positioned, itwas presented, and it was denied and
declined by the United States Supreme Court, the United States Supreme Court that is
sitting there with a seven to threewith a what is it, it's a
six three majority that was put therebecause of what happened in twenty sixteen.

(13:56):
We sat up in twenty sixteen andwe allowed a faction of the Democratic Party,
progressives, socialists, Bernie Burrows,whatever you want to call them,
to convince Democrats to sit it outor to not vote, or to vote
third party for Jill Stein and angerover Hillary Clinton as a nominee. As
a nominee. If those people wouldhave voted for Hillary in the three states

(14:18):
that mattered, she would have carriedWisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania, and
we would not have had Gorsich,Cony, Amy Conye, Barrett, and
Brett Kavanaugh on the Supreme Court today. Okay, they are the ones who
sat here and blocked no long forgiveness. They are the ones who halted millions
of Americans from having a level ofdebt relief that would have put them in

(14:41):
a position to forward their lives ormove their lives forward. So for us
to say that Joe Biden hadn't donethat when he did it, but it
was blocked, takes away and putsthe blame back on the Democratic Party and
away from the Republicans who constantly blockus. And that's what we do see
when we look at these conversations beingwhat about the entire Democratic Party shifting to
be the progressive and socialist I thinkfaction that more and more does represent a

(15:07):
lot of young people, but itin America, it represents many members of
gen Z, which make up twentyone percent of the American population right now.
You aren't going to win an Americanelection with twenty one percent, and
you most certainly are't going to winthe electoral copy. We may be barely
winning it now though, and ifthe far right factions of the Republican Party
are not representative of the whole,but they are carrying a lot of the

(15:30):
media conversations and they are keeping theattention in people's faces, and they're keeping
Trump on everyone's minds. Then maybethey are the more effective minority. Maybe
they don't see it that way.The ten percent of the work of the
company that does ninety percent of thework. I agree with that, one
hundred percent. Agree with that.I do. But at the same time,
you have to look at the realityof how you win elections in America.
You have to look at the electoralcollege. You have to look at

(15:52):
how that operates. Twenty one percentof the American populacest gen z and because
they because of that twenty one percent, eleven percent of them, I mean,
let's say, of twenty one percent, eleven percent of that twenty of
one hundred percent may want what you'resaying to happen. But the rest of
them, even they don't want,even white gen Z people, they don't.
They're not wanting what the majority ofthese people that we're seeing on social

(16:15):
media are wanting. Uh. Andthen the the end that we look at,
you know, the black agenda,what black people want, we make
up thirteen percent of the American population. We will never, we will never
have the power to control the outcomeof an election, even if we are
block voted for, which of coursewe know we never will. We never
will, we never will, wenever will, even in states where we

(16:37):
are the most marginalized, where weare the most put upon, where we
are the most oppressed and abuse,we're not going to show up. That
was seen in the Tennessee elections thatwere held in the mid year, when
only when less than forty percent ofRigeta voters showed up to vote. But
I don't know that it's about blackpeople driving a black agenda as much as
it's about the majority tapping into thecultural things that move and excite peaceeople and

(17:00):
incite people to take an action.Like I don't think it's about like the
Republican elites or the Republican powerholders havinganything to do with like personally or financially,
any of the undertones and the desirefor the segregational lists that they are
supporting. But they are tapping intosomething that they know will mobilize people,
you know what I mean. SoI don't think it's necessarily about us being

(17:22):
those people, but about the DemocraticParty not understanding what's salient, like,
not understanding what's resonating and what theyshould be trying to mimic in their message
in the writing. If you goto the Tennessee Chamber or the Tennessee Spring
Corps even you know right here downon MLK, you will hear a lot
of Republicans talking in a way thatI didn't think that you would hear people
talking because I, for a longtime believe state politics was very is always

(17:44):
hyper local. And one of theworst things you can probably do in state
politics is like to walk into anAlabama chamber and say, well, over
in Florida, this is how theydo it. They don't care. But
eight years ago something happened where whatwas going on up here started to become
really, really important, and peoplewanted to just mimic that in their messaging,
in their rhetoric. And now ifyou walk into like a state house
in a Republican state, you wouldthink that you were listening to, you

(18:07):
know, Trump, a Trump campaignspeech or because the Republicans have a playbook
that they use without fail yep,and they have an even bigger playbook that's
going to roll out on twenty twentyfive cod Project twenty twenty five. They
are beating the shit out of Democratson strategy they had always have. They
played along and started a massive machinethat they have followed since, and it

(18:30):
works and it garners results, andthe Democrats have never counted. I don't
know why. I can't tell youwhy. I have no no ability to
say that. But here's the thing. Those ten percent of Republican workhorses who
are doing the work in the companyare doing it based on fear and divisive
politics. That's what they're doing.They're not giving you a common message around

(18:51):
anything that is in benefit or inservices the American people. They're doing it
people aren't thriving, scare the Americanpeople. That is not what Democrats do,
and I would say that's not whatthey should do. The problem is
what is being said by g andZ that would be something that we could
rally behind. Because here's the thingis why I always tell people on social
media, just because you want itdoesn't make it right. Just because you

(19:14):
want it doesn't make it right.Just because you want it does not make
it right. President Biden could runbehind the wants of a very vocal group
of people on social media, andit would run him off a cliff because
the majority of Americans don't want it. The polls and surveys say they don't
want it. Let's take one example, Let's give it that. So one

(19:37):
of the things I'm thinking about isuniversal basic income. And there have been
about twenty different pieces of legislation introducedover the last four years that have been
pieces of that I would fit underthis umbrella, whether it's to study it,
whether it's to do some sort ofa pilot, whether it's to support
states who are trying to do implementsome sort of a pilot. Right a

(19:57):
place now where the cost of lifeliving is so egregious in so many places,
the cost of childcare right I think, being maybe the number one example,
which I mean forty years ago,it was the true that the childcare
was expensive, and it's still thetruth, and so much is I think
we are getting to a point wherepeople are increasingly not just tired or like
you know, skeptical about the Americanthey've completely disregarded that it is possible for

(20:21):
an entire generation of people, notjust gen Z, but the people who
came right before gen Z, andI believe alphas and who will follow them
will not believe that it is possible, and increasingly believed that work and the
value that Americans put on work islow, is folklore, is ancient,
is out of touch, is outof date, that human beings ought to
be able to subsist because they're humanbeings, that there should be some basic

(20:41):
level of income given, not becauseit is charitable or because it is nice,
but because you're a low uncome butbecause you're a human being, and
they're not. I don't think it'sinterested in the productivity and the contribution that
older generations believed was so inherently American. I think they're less interested than that.
So I think that that could beone example right where there's something salient

(21:03):
about it. It's picking up,people are talking about it. I think
you see it in all the littletrends, whether it's like quiet quitting.
I do not dream of labor likethe recitals of Baldwin's ancient words and that
video trending on TikTok, or Ijust want to get lady and laid well.
I mean there's a lot. Ithink that's a sentiment, that's something
that democrats should be sniffing and shouldbe thinking about in terms of their policies

(21:25):
and their platform, because that's onsocial media and everyone. It's trending because
it is tapping into something that peoplebelieve that this work ethic and hustle culture
and productivity culture is toxic, isunhelpful, exacerbates racial inequities and injustices,
and it's increasingly out out of ourreach. But guess what Democrats put forth

(21:47):
to the American people and the veryfirst cover release bill fifteen dollars in wage
across the board. They were goingto incentivize and pay for companies in that
bill to have it, and itwas voted by Republicans and the American people
have forgotten about it. They movedon from it. We could fight right
now for a universal wage and incomeacross this country, but I promise you

(22:10):
not only would it not pass,it would not gain the favor of the
majority of Americans, because the corporationsand the money out there would fight it
and counter and convince the majority ofpeople in this country that they themselves don't
want to have a long game build. Would you have to keep tapping into
and then we could talk about gettingrid of five twenty seven and Citizens United.
I mean it would. I thinkit's a domino effect that I think

(22:32):
all has to flow together. Butit does start with some initial ls,
like it does start with those l's. There was a time in which,
I mean Republicans have been trying tooverturn rov Wade for forever. They were
only able to do it because they'recontinuously talking about child murder until they had
a moment they had a guy,and they had a person who could put
some people on the bench. Butthey've been talking about it for decades before
and losing for decades. It's justthe year to take the L Like,
are we living with million in thatmoment? There's never a good time to

(22:56):
take l now when you live now, Yeah, there is a better time
than now. When you're living ina moment in American history where the state
of Georgia was won by less thantwelve thousand votes, it's not the time
to risk anything. It's just notthe time. Let me give you an
example, because we're sitting here,We're literally sitting here having a conversation pretending

(23:17):
as though if Donald Trump is putback in office, we will be able
to have these conversations in the future. We're literally pretending like that's going to
happen. We're literally acting as thoughAmerican democracy will endure it beyond twenty twenty
fives. I'm just saying, takea moment, take on the brink of
a class. Project Read Project twentytwenty five. Read their plan for America.

(23:37):
Read their plan for how they're goingto restructure the executive branch of government
by dismantling the checks and balances thatare inherent within the executive branch of government.
Read what they want to do toour brothers and sisters who happen to
be trains by criminalizing their existence.Read what they want to do to our
brothers and who are members of theLGBTQA plus community, and how they're going

(23:59):
to legislay us out of existence.Read it in the Plan playing day.
Read their plan for how they're goingto rearrange public education in the nine hundred
documents that composed Project twenty twenty five. There will be no more American democracy
as we know it after twenty twentyfive if Joseph Robin and Biden isn't President

(24:21):
of the United States, So therewon't be any reason to take any else
because none of that's going to happen. What we do, oftentimes is look
at what we want Democrats to do, without looking at this is what Democrats
are doing, and this is whatRepublicans are doing on the opposite end of
it. An example that would bewhat's happening in the Middle East. Everyone
is talking about how Biden is afunding genocide by simply just simply doing what

(24:47):
he's always done in regards to sellingweapons to Israel and funding what's already allocated
in the budget to this country.But nobody's talking about what Donald Trump said
he would do. Every single Republicansstood on a debate stage and use words
like I would annihilate, I wouldbomb, I would wipe them off the

(25:07):
map. In regards to the Palestinianpeople, that the rhetoric was absolutely egregious.
It was that, but no onetalked about that. We're only talking
about Biden, Biden Biden. Wehave to look at what would happen if
Biden is not there. What chancewould we have of getting universal income if
there is no body? What wouldhappen to universal health care if there is

(25:29):
no body? I argue that thistime, from now until November in the
time to have those fights is atthe time to say we're going to make
your platform for you, you betterput it on there. This is the
time, in my opinion, forevery like minded, heartened person who wants
any of these things to come togetherand support the candidate and the same Republicans

(25:52):
do. But we did that.But didn't we do that four years ago?
Though, like we didn't do thiswork. I don't think so.
I think there are our elections wherepeople are genuinely excited about who they get
to vote for, not where theyare voting out of a with their nose
is held. We don't have that. But no, that's that's very true.
But to the point that you're making, which which is is valid,
and it will be the result ofit will motivate my decisions for sure.

(26:15):
You're saying that Republicans are completely unhappilyI don't think happily enthusiastically motivated by fear
of right, fear of what,fear of the browning, fear of the
all of those things. But ifwe are not motivated by fear, and
if we should not be motivated byfear as Democrats, then then it won't
be good enough to present this alternativedystopian future. It will need to be
a utopian I'm not I'm saying thatDemocrats don't use fear. That's right,

(26:37):
But five I'm not saying we shouldbe motivated by fear. I'm sitting my
black gay ass right here in theseat. No, I am motivated by
fear. I am watching, forme, watching all these other things,
our trans brothers and sisters getting killedand gunned down in the streets. I

(26:59):
am watching violent actions against the communitiesacross this country happening every single day without
notification and mentioning even in the news. I am absolutely motivated by fear.
When the Republican candidate of the UnitedStates of America could not only incite a
riot at the Capitol, but couldget on a debate stage and tell white

(27:23):
supremacists to stand back and stay andbuy for further orders, I am absolutely
motivated by fear. And I believethat every single American who belongs to any
marginalized group in this country should bemotivated by the exact same fear to fight
with everything they have to get JosephRobbin and Biden re elected. And then
after that you do the work ofaccountability, and then after that you do

(27:45):
the push. But here's the thing, and many young people, they want
it fast, and they want itnow. They want it just as quick
as they can gain social media virality. That is not the way American politics
works. I'm sorry, it's justout the way it works. I am
a progressive absolutely in my beliefs andideals. I want to see all of

(28:07):
it. I want to see allof it. But I know you can't
have any of those things if youhaven't done the work of changing the hearts
and minds of American people. Themajority of progressives in this country last week,
look at the data. Let thedata inform you know, kind of
where you're saying it should go.Progressives lose the hell out of elections in

(28:33):
this country, and then they losetheir minds. An example being Nina Turner,
who is out there every single daysquawking and himming and hawing about absolutely
nothing because she can't win an election, and we're going to give her a
platform to do all her nonsense talkagainst the Democratic Party because she's a two
time loser win some elections mean.I mean, the reality is you have

(28:57):
to in order to change, youhave to be in power. So if
you can't win an election, sowho will be in power in ten years
and twelve years? There will bean election every until something changes. Every
four years, there will be onethey have, So then what about that?
What about that future? Which Ido feel like Republicans are already thinking
about, and some of them alwaysare. So it's part of what you're

(29:18):
saying is that there are lots ofideals that we would like to hear and
see communicated. Republicans are not sittingback, I don't think, at least
not enough and thinking about whether ornot quality of life has improved. I
don't think they are, because Ithink if they were, and they were
looking at their wallets and they're lookingat their pockets, they're looking at their
product, they would see that itactually had not improved. However, they
were fed emotionally and they were satisfied, and they were ready are ready to

(29:41):
vote for this man again. Sothe amount of money, time and energy
that you spend communicating what you aredoing, that is one thing I will
say is very true for this thisand the next generations is yes, they
want it quick and they want tofast, but they also need to hear
about it. So it is nolonger sufficient to just do the work.
That is absolutely insufficient. That Ithink is the reality of American policy.
You have to communicate, you cannotjust simply do anymore. And if we

(30:03):
can't get if we can't even getthere, then we have completely We have
not only lost, we will alwayslose, will always lose. I guess
that's my question. Do you thinkthat is an issue with the Democrats,
that is not being They're not controlof a narrative strong enough saying really was
even not investing in it. Idon't know the buck, I don't know
the bus, because maybe I'm thinkabout delivering the results. But it's also
the Democrats who have the greatest opportunities, which I would argue that former President

(30:27):
of Barack Obama was not a progressiveindividual whatsoever. He was black, so
that that was progressive. I supposehe was not white, so I guess
that was progressive in a sense,but he was not progressive whatsoever. And
I'm not saying that that was apoor strategy. But when we move from
moderate to moderate, and at timein a time where we are increasingly extreme,
I don't think we can say thatwe're going to continuously be on this

(30:48):
path or on the trajectory. Therehas to be someone who is tapping into
the thing that I think is goingto continue to be the thing. And
it is Democrats like like our local, like Das, like Kamala, like
right here, like Fanie Will.It is a lot of the Democrats that
are in positions to do something differentthat are actually creating results that are pissing
people off. But you look,I don't think I gotta go. You

(31:11):
weren't being fair to President Obama.In my opinion, President Obama was a
progressive. He was a he wasa progressive list for the time. He
absolutely, but not only for thetime. You have to this is what
we do. We take people likePresident Obama, even Oprah Winfrey, and
we remove them from the historical contextof which they lived and existed and did

(31:32):
work, and we put them intoday's timeframe and say this is what they
should have done based on how wecan move now. We can move different
in twenty twenty four than what thatman can move in two thousand and eight.
True, and it's not fair toObama or his legacy, but that's
what we And when I say we, I don't see non black people doing
that to Barack. I don't seenone let of people on the internet attacking

(31:53):
Oprah. It's us. We're doingthat to our own community, Ie Hunts,
but we ain't doing until Lennard McKelvey, and I'm not I'm not grudging
him aggressive. I think Health Timewas the most progressive thing ever done in
this country. And when you talkabout the Republicans who are saying that,

(32:15):
you look at the quality of theirlife, their life, their quality of
life has improved more white people,poor white people. Mean mom who's sitting
up on that trailer, who isright now spending out two in tobacco in
a little cup. She now getsinsolent because of Trump, because of because

(32:35):
the President Biden. I believe that. But I'm talking about their allegiance to
their leaders and who their leader,and they don't see that. There's a
whole program that's gonna that. Bythe time this has gone live, has
aired about black men in America onMSNBC and the main voice sitting here saying
that he's going to vote for it'sa black man. You know he wants
to back in office because Trump gaveout checks and Trump getting there was money

(32:59):
under Trump. That man, thatblack man bought a house in twenty twenty
two. That man bought a houseunder the Biden administration because of the Fair
Housing Acts that President Biden signed asan executive order. But again that black
man is given credit to Trump fora home he bought under Biden, that

(33:20):
he would. That happens a lot. That's who we are, and that
goes across the board. So ourbody of lives are improved, have improved
under Biden. We are the lowestblack unemployment in the history of this nation.
We just had on the January jobnumbers were once again defire expectations.

(33:42):
We expected one hundred and sixty thousandjobs to be added to the economy.
Three hundred and thirty three thousand jobsgot added to the economy, and no
one talks about it, no onegets credit credit to it, no one
recognizes it. And goes back towhat you said, And it is all
about the failure of the Democrat Partyto message with control the narrative. But
here's the thing, and maybe toan extent too, and to dismantle,

(34:06):
to do more than to do more, to do more, to dismantle existing
systems and structures, to do more. You know, yes, I mean
you would think. You think itshould be sufficient to just improve quality of
life. But dismantling those existing systemsand those existing structures is part of what
I think I'm seeing young people andjust far left people in general. And
it's supposed to be far left peoplewanting to see, but they're wanting to

(34:29):
see an abolitionist of the future,you would think. But a lot of
things that we thought would beyond thepower that we at least assumed should be
or would be. I mean,Trump issued more executive orders for a Republican
government that are supposed to be antigovernment, for a party it's supposed to
be anti government. This man wasissuing executive orders almost on a bi weekly
basis at one point and had noqualms about it and made no apologies for

(34:51):
it. And I think there's somany Democrats trying to operate within our existing
system and saying I follow the procedure, I followed the process. It didn't
work. There have got to beseeds play. There's got to be challenges
to the election results that we allknow are fair. Why because it gets
people's attention. Money is pouring infor a re election for an individual that
fairly and rightfully losses on election andcost him. Cost him is on election

(35:12):
in my opinion, right by tellingpeople not to put in their votes by
mail, so all your Republicans turnedout on the May Burn raised Donald Trump
by four times more. President Bidenhas more money in his re election campaign,
four times more than Trump. I'mjust saying Trump have money and the
relection campaign on Republicans they're going tosupport, They're going to back him,
and they're giving their little s Sijakes over at a rate cuts there they're

(35:39):
quick to do it. But butbut but again, with four times on
money, there should be a biggerinvestment in the baling disinformation. More money
needs to go into the efforts offighting the message. I think we need
to fight the media. I don'tknow what that looks like, but I
think the media is I want tofight the media, you know. I
feel as the whole Native Lamp PIDwas created to misinformed the black community.

(36:04):
And I think that is being fundedby Republican money, Republican donors, and
they are ready to do the work. And where is the Democratic strategy and
a Democrat accounter. That's the problem. Look at this podcast, This podcast
should be heavily funded, ready togo. There should be where you know,
you guys are here doing public You'resitting here doing a public service.
Look at all that I've said,look at all the talking points, all

(36:25):
the sound bites, all the factchecks that I've given in one interview,
and you're doing nothing but sacrificing yourmoney and time to be here. This
could be time spent making money andmoney in a whole different area. But
you're here doing the work. Thisshould be funded. And I listen to
it and I love it, soplease that's the problems, period, and
the money is out there and theDemocratic Party needs to invest have money accordingly.

(36:47):
I mean what would I don't knowwhat else would they need? Like,
what is the hang up on it? I don't understand what the hang
up is. Like it's obvious thatyou're getting your books handed to you just
by messaging a loan, So Idon't understand who's in charge of mar marketing
for them DNC. It's just it'sI'm baffled by it because it's painfully obvious.
I think people also need to understandthe structure, because there's so much

(37:08):
power that this is not the DNC. The R and C did not look
this way twenty thirty forty years ago. Just the party structure period and like
its ability to influence it, people'sreliance upon it has completely changed. I
don't even think you know back totwenty eighteen and twenty twenty sixteen that we
were looking at the same DNC andRNC, like look at the look at

(37:30):
the money in the time and effortand energy people used to put behind those,
and I don't think that they areas the strong fixtures that they used
to be. So I don't evenI don't even know at this point what
is possible. Nope, but thirdparty is that's where we need one.
I don't know what that looks like, but I feel like both sides of
this point have just lost touch withthe American people, and I think they
should be a third party. Idon't know what that looks like, but
I just think that's where we're headed. There needs to be a third party

(37:52):
that rise. But that would assumethat people are going to agree on a
third part. Like the problem ispeople don't agree with everything in a party,
and that makes you think that youneed another party. That you could,
but it's never going to happen.That's the thing that's why one issue
voters are concerned. You're never goingto all agree on all the issues that

(38:13):
affect this country, and there's somethings you're gonna have to just swallow it
down and move in the direction ofthe party. And that's the issue is
that you know, people are saying, well, this one issue is the
deal breaker, and so I'm goingto let everything else go to hell in
a hand basket because I don't agreewith this one thing that they're doing.
There are people who are angry aboutlike the border is an issue. I'm

(38:34):
not vote Forbiden because we don't havea secure border, or I am not
votever Biden because he is oppressing brownpeople who are trying to get in this
country and making it too hard toget in. I legally, you can't
win. And so that's what I'msaying, we have to look. That's
not what I'm hearing from Republicans.They're like, this man is a sexual
assaulter, this man is a criminal, this man wants to overthrow democracy,

(38:58):
but he's our candidate, and I'mgonna stand. There's something to be said
about that too. Maybe that's avote for staggered elections, right, Like
if you're talking about single issue voters. And I was listening to in the
previous conversation we were talking about theschool board, right and so, and
the discussion about not just off yearsand on years, but when there is
a single thing presented for someone tovote on, and the people who turn

(39:21):
out and don't turn out. Imaginehow many people only care about like a
mayoral race, but they vote foreverything else that's there, or only care
about this. I'm admittedly very much. I'm much more interested in my sheriffs
and in my judges and my prosecutorsthan I am in my county commissioners at
the moment. And what a waste, right, Like, what a waste
of a vote for somebody to justChris quote unquote Christmas Tree there just like

(39:43):
democrats. Something to be said aboutpeople who would turn out for something for
all elections if they were independent ratherthan clustered. I don't know. And
the final thoughts, because yeah,waits Pat's getting the final thoughts? Well,
you know, I don't have anyfinal thoughts there any other was any
of the topic that you guys reallywanted to hit on. I'm fascinated talking

(40:07):
to you, so I would liketo know, like what you have been
like chewing on, like just mentallychewing on over the last week. What
is your biggest issue in Atlanta rightnow? Like, what is the biggest
issue? You're going to be copCity? For me, it's always cop
City. It is until and Iknow we've lost. The battle is over.
It's done. God built really quicklyrally this weekend. We can do

(40:29):
all that. It's over. Sowhen I was because I did all that
right. But cop City will exist, it will be built. And you
know, and I don't think thatAndre Dickens has taken the hit that he
should have taken. I think thathe'll be fine. He'll be re elected.
He's still in popular favor with thepeople, and he's gaining more fans
every single day. But I willnever forget and I will never forgive any

(40:52):
of the entities that have brought toAmerica's Black mecca, the largest police police
and uh, it's police and it'sall that they say. But at the
end of the day, it isa police force being enacted upon America's Black
Mecca. And it is heartbreaking tosee anything. I thought they needed to

(41:12):
get a certain number of goals toby, they fighted all that and then
now it's all tied up with legalchallenges and they've done a great job.
I don't really I'm so confused,that's to what really has That's why I
stopped falling out that I don't understandwhat that new. Then it was over.
I knew then that it was over, and that the people who were
on the side of true justice forall had failed and the people did speak

(41:36):
had lost the people did speak?Or do you feel like the people did
not do enough? That people dideverything they could, but the system was
so strong and so organized that itwas one that we could not beat.
And I don't think that people couldhave done anymore. But at the same
time, if the only thing itcould have been would be to have tried

(41:57):
more to hold off on some ofthe I don't want to say radical elements
of the movement behold off or someof the things that they could have done.
Just held off is waited, justwaited, and they didn't. Entertainment
something that's pressing, and entertainment that'son your plate. I'm very curious.

(42:22):
Not a thing, not a thing, you know, like entertainment, Like
do I care about anything entertainment?I mean, for okay, so for
me care Yeah, I don't know. For me, this Nikki and Meghan
issue And the only reason I'm annoyedby this because we're back in that same
space where two females cannot exist inmusic at the same time, Like why

(42:44):
are we see then exist? Itdoesn't seem to be the thing, like
there should be a space for Nikki, there should be a space for Cardi,
there should be a space for Megan. Why is there always something going
on between the two? What isthe recent inciting incident? Yeah right,
I mean one of those artists stillto be no space and that that's an
individual personal problem that's on her Megan. Apparently Nikki said something went after Megan

(43:10):
because Megan came out with a newsong and it just become the same.
I wasn't really vested in. Iwas just anno, why are we doing
this again? You all can haveyou all have proven y'all don't have successful
careers and exists in the same atmosphere, So why are we doing this again?
What is what is the issue?So that's what made it bring it
to me. It is like we'reback in the space again, Like let
me give it to you from aI look at it as actually one of

(43:34):
the best things that could have happenedto Meg the Stallion's career and one of
the things that could have possibly givenNikki like a lift up out of what
some are saying is financial distress.Meg thee Stallion right now just garnered,
like you know, the first thehighest rate rating debut of an independent artist.
She made the decision to leave traditionalmusic to be an independent artist people

(43:59):
thought immediately gonna fail. No femaleentertainer has taken this approach. And not
only is she breaking workers, butshe just received a distribution deal with Warner
Brothers that's also in a hell holderfor an independent artist. So she is
actually right now, at a veryyoung age, on track till within ten
years to be like the financial powerhouseof the industry. She may be the

(44:22):
most successful female entertainer to then turninto a CEO that we've ever seen in
entertainment. So she set her simpleitself up wonderfully from a simple one song
independently released distract. Nicki Minaj wasable to capitalize on that because she was
a target of that distract after multiplesongs where she's this Meg. But people

(44:43):
are saying that she is in financialdistress because she backed out of a previous
tour and never made up financially forthe ticket sales and the reimbursements for that
tour. So there was some tourthat Nikki had to cancel and she never
regained that income back. She likethe concert whoever paid for that concert had
to then get that money back,but they never had money. So there

(45:06):
are people saying and online documents LinkedInprovided by this uh Twitter source called can
Barbie that's what it's called, youknow, four hundred thousand followers on the
X where they show these documents thatyou know, show that Niki owes this
money, that she really doesn't wantto even do this tour, but she
has to to fulfill the contractual obligationsof the cancel tour. The tour has

(45:30):
not sold well, it is theirplentious sees out there. People are now
in mass trying to resale tickets thatcan't resale because now they don't even want
to go on it. So forher, it could have been a chance
to like pull herself out and makesome money because they're saying that she's in
dire need. Azilia Banks. Justthis passed. We came out on a
social media. I want to sayit was a ram, but it wasn't

(45:50):
because you know, I've seen Aziliabanks brands. It was a discussion and
she talked about Nikki not having money. If she had money, she would
have done some type of cosmetic surgeryto fix her. But but again that
procedure is very expensive and very dangerous, very tricky to fix what's obviously going
on back there. That that indicatesher lack of the funds that she may
need. So I think it couldhave been a blessing for Nikka that she

(46:13):
didn't use in the right way.But it certainly was a boost to Meg
and to what extent was And Ialways look at anything in the in this
world, is it even real?Did they make this up on purpose?
Is this real? Or did theymanufacture for those purposes? Because as someone
who works in marketing, uh,you know it sales, but sales is
a division of market because in orderto sell, you have to know how

(46:35):
to market. I always think thisis brilliant because it's going to make both
these artists rise and improve. Iknow you have an opinion on it there,
I know you have opinion. Incrediblefacts of information. Well, he
does this concert That's why kind ofstuff I don't care. I don't care

(46:57):
about. See what I'm interviewing,when I'm doing on social media, I'm
giving the people what they want becausethey want that, and I I'll express
the opinions I have one, butI is what I care about. I
agree. This is the politics isa real that's a real world. I
mean, I guess my theory fromthis day. I'm really the fact that
you're not worried at all about thisbody thing brings me to come. Do

(47:22):
not worry yet. I just Idon't know every day. It just it's
just let me tell you where you'regoing to see when you are, You'll
be honest, I'll let you knowwhat I'm trying to worry. Look at
New Hampshire, Joseph Biden wasn't evenon the ballot. I hate to say
what he said. I want toprioritize in the Democratic Party the diverse voters
of South Carolina, and I wantthat to be the first primary in the

(47:43):
nation. I want Georgia to benumber two, your raggedy ass. Governor
Brian Kimp said no. Brad Rathfisbergersaid no. Didn't happen. It could
have been a financial windfall for thestate. It could have done a whole
lot for organizedzations and in this stateif that would have been the case,
but they didn't allow it, sothey can't feel like it is. Biden

(48:07):
didn't appear on the ballot in NewHampshire and he still won the popular vote.
The majority of Democrats in the stateof New Hampshire wrote his name in
any way that speaks to the powerthat the mainstream and legacy media refused to
acknowledge. This man is power,it is popular, and he is liked.

(48:31):
You were going to see the exactsame massive turnout in the first Democratic
primary of South Carolina. How doyou feel that South Carolina. I was
gonna say, what do you thinkthat that will mean? Like South Carolina?
Like if that because I think weout of town. We got another
show we got to do. Wehad a town, all right, final
thoughts thirty seconds? Well, Iwould just say what it means is what

(48:53):
it's gonna be, is that JosephRobins and Biden is liked and supported by
black people in South Carolina, andit's a representation of black people all throughout
the South. The black people inSouth Carolina are no different than the black
people in North Carolina, Virginia,Georgia, Florida, anywhere else. And
that's a good sign for the DemocraticParty and Joseph Robin and Biden as we

(49:14):
approach November of twenty twenty four.So there you have. Unfortunately, we're
out of time, but if Ican drag Zach back in later, because
I really want to see this playout, So I might drag Zach back
in later whenever I get into thisbusy schedule. But we will see you
the same time, same place,only Leadership and in Love Podcasts with your
host for Cality, Rice