The life of a Senator with Senator Kim Jackson

Today we welcome back our friend, Senator Kim Jackson! She is no longer a “freshman“ to the chamber and she shares her thoughts and knowledge of current legislation! We discuss everything from LGBTQ+ legislation to current events!

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to another edition of Other LeadershipBeen in Live podcast. We're with your
host Ricardi right in my co hosts. All right, so we are
back in the space. Well I'vebeen in space for two hours, but
you know, we're back in thisspace. And today we have a very
special guest, but their family.Anytime you've been here once, your family.
So I'm gonna her introduce herself andwe're gonna take it from there.
Hi, it's so good to bewith you all again. I'm Senator Kim

(00:21):
Jackson and I represent areas of thecab and a little bit of Gwinette,
but mostly Stone Mountain. Clarksman Tucker. I say this every time you come.
I always forget that I'm in StoneMountain. Yeah, I always forget
them for you show. I'm like, oh my god, she's mine,
She's mine. Yes, I'm soexcited. And if you're not familiar,
also, I think to take abrief second to tell people to follow up

(00:41):
on your podcast. God Goats andGovernments, very very good. I thought
it was so cute the name.I was like, this is cute.
This is a dural essentially, Isaw the goat in the page. I
was like, oh my god,and it's a real goat. It's my
girl. You have a goat.I have five goats, so that's my
actual goat. Her name is Mississippi. What do you name your goat?
Miss Of course, all of mygods are named after Southern states, so

(01:03):
that Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia,Carolina. Yeah, it's the whole.
Senator Jackson is a woman of many, many colors, many shades, and
many interesting psychotomy. And she's probablyabout a dozen firsts for folks who don't
know who our special guest is.She's the first of a million, first
openly LGBTQ states, and first womanof color to be because you're a priest,

(01:26):
that's right, and the first womanof color to be a priest in
is this Atlanta? Yeah, thewhole kind of North Georgia, regionally,
all of Georgia. Actually, thewoman like a several several firsts. But
this is no longer your first legislativesession, so now this is your sophomore
year in a chance. Okay,cool, But those that do not know,
Simonea is having a fan girl momentand this is her. She wrote,

(01:49):
I just I just want you toknow that Senator Jackson you're her,
she wrote, like she doesn't dothat very often. She doesn't do that
very often. So she's fan girlingright now, riding stuff. And I
also because because it's easy to kindof follow what's going on with the session
from your perspective, that's also reallyreally cool. So I just wanted you
to get a chance to talk aboutthat. UM, we can get into
some some of our top stories,and then we are going to get into

(02:10):
some state level politics because there's asalways just so much going on in Georgia.
UM. So first just to totalk about this and not to let
it go over our heads, althoughI know Ricardo was not very passionate about
getting into this conversation. Wait,what are we talking about our former our
former president UM as of today?If the criminal, So, if you're

(02:30):
the criminal, we're talking about criminal. Okay, you're following. How many
counts? How many counts are weat now? So prior we were talking
about fraud and we were so wewere talking about the stay. It was
like thirty something dozen of charges thatwere related to fraud. However, today
what is making the headlines is actuallya story of excuse me, an accusation
of sexual assault. UM. Anaccusation that actually was a bit older,

(02:51):
but it's only now getting a chanceto have an audience because of the overturn
of the Statute of limitations. Sothis is actually an allegation from the nineties
and a woman named Egene care ifyou if you you know if this is
a sensitive conversation for a lot ofpeople because it's such an unfortunately common experience.
But it's so I think, justas a viewer, interesting to sit

(03:12):
back and think about a former presidentand a former or former executive um being
accused or something like this, andon top of that, like this onslaught
of charges that have happened, Likewe talked about the first time a president
had ever been indicted for a formerpresident just a few weeks ago, and
now we're talking about this and it'slike a man. My question is,

(03:34):
are we really surprised the same manis grabbed by the all we really surprised
a sexual assault charges of being brought? Actually, I'm expecting a lot more
than that, right, I meanthat is kind of the definition literally that
he bragged about literally like he wenton by the like, So you're saying
that, like it's it's normal,like this should be expected but from him,
but for it was completely unaddressed forseveral years, and this person sat

(03:59):
in that office for several years.Like We've got to remember, Like,
I feel like that period of disillusionment. Now this does feel strange because there
was a new normal creative in whichthat was normal. Yeah, but you
gotta remember who were talking about,Like Trump has gotten away with murder for
decades. We're not telling he juststarted yesterday. Decades. Now that they've
actually gotten him on something that theyactually could get him, now people feel
more comfortable, like, Okay,well maybe I can be heard now because

(04:21):
now this is serious. You know, people are after him, on people
with actual authority, So now wemake it some justice. It's not surprised
to me, and I'm expecting alot more people to come forward. I
mean, again, the man's campaignwas grabbing by them. What else I
mean, I don't expect anything else. He's a criminal criminal, so so
technically I think we can have this. I mean, I know we were

(04:42):
having this conversation for years, butnow but now we can now this is
illegal truth. Yeah, but theissue, my genuine concern about this is
this does not knock him out ofthe race. To run for president.
That's my fear, Like this idiot, it doesn't disqualify him. This could
literally be running the country from aprison from a prison sale like this does
not disqualify him, Like it's it'scrazy to me. And again, I

(05:04):
think about the global impact this hasthat a former president has been indicted this
many times, and the fact thathe's not been expelled from running, the
message that it sends. You know, we always some about third world countries
and dictators and stuff. That's whatthis looks like. That's what this is
starting to look like. So I'mreally worried about our global footprint at this

(05:25):
point. With this whole situation,it's not a good look for us at
all. I will say, I'mfrom a criminal justice standpoint. Indictment is
not a conviction, and that's reallyimportant because so many people are indicted will
truly you know, the whole sayingis you can indict a plastic bag or
hand sandwich or paper bag. Sowhile we all know that he is a

(05:46):
criminal, I can't think making thosedistinctions are important. It's also important to
know if you were actually running foroffice in Georgia, an indictment would make
him ineligible but because we passed thelaw that said you can't work in an
elected office in capacity if you've beenindeed it until that's been cleared. So
this was Georgia, only he'd beout. And the last thing I'll add
is I think Georgia is a savinggrace because if he is indicted here in

(06:10):
Georgia for his election Shenanigans, thenit is very likely that he will no
longer qualify or run for office becausewhat he has sent as traitorous and truly
um, it's actually a disqualifying accusation. So um, Georgia Fanni Willis da
Fani Willews may actually be our hopethat really truly put him out of the

(06:31):
possibility of running. All right,willis that means we're banking on you,
honey. We need to bring iton home because this this is just obscene.
Between this and the insurrection, justthere' stuffing he's been able to get
away with that. It is mindboggling to me. It's like, this
is mind boggling. You know,you're talking about the legacy now, so
like how do you feel? Allright? Maybe it should ask this question,

(06:51):
like what do you imagine that impactswill be in terms of like the
temperature here in Georgia of all ofthis, because I do think I do
think there's a lot to be saidabout the federal impact on this most recent
election and in biden success. Quitefrankly, but mathematically, I know there
was a lot of analysts explaining thatthe pendulum always kind of swings this way
for the most part. However,there was also a lot of people would

(07:15):
be believe very stronger that he wouldbe reelected. So I'm curious about how
you think now these proceedings, theimpact they're going to have on Georgia.
Do you think that they might galvanizea larger percentage of people around him for
a potential band, Like how doyou imagine our state responding? I mean
to be honest, if we lookat how people responded to Marjor Green Taylor,

(07:36):
all of her shenanigans, I hateto like even call her name.
Really, every time she's done somethingmore and more foolish and more and more
racist or anti semitic, more andmore people have followed her, and so
I and more and more Georgians have, And so I actually am concerned that
this would only rev up on hisbase even more if we were to continue

(07:57):
with this indictment, which it needsto happen, he needs to be ext
but it certainly can rally up hisbase. But I think it has the
same effect for Democrats as well,and that Democrats will be like, I'll
be damned before yes, and beforeI have some criminal, you know,
serving it as the president United States. I think honestly, at the end

(08:18):
of the day, it'll probably bea plus for Democrats versus the Republicans on
this. I don't know that's hada weird thought. If he gets indicted
and still runs for president and shouldwin, and I hate to say this,
it would be for black males,white privilege at its finest. So

(08:39):
you've been indicted, you're actually acriminal, and now you still are allowed
to run the country. It's justa thought. A while I thought I
had a man. I was like, wow, the message that was sent,
it's just like wow. We talkabout it, but this is the
epitome of what that would look likelike, Yeah, this is the epitome
of what it looks like. Imean, it would be like a worldwide
example of how white men have beenabove the law literally like literally like it's

(09:01):
it's a the fact that we're havingthis conversation is amazing to me. Like
I would have never thought we're toabout the highest office in the land,
and to have a former president bebrought up on this mini counts, it's
just like wow. I mean,maybe so this makes me really want you
both of your opinions on something slight, slightly different, but maybe maybe there's
some ties here. So in thispast week seeing on Fox News in particular

(09:26):
Tuckle Tucker Carlson um not necessarily justthe outing, but I want to talk
about the departure, and I wantto talk about Don Lemon and CNN and
just see if there's maybe there's aconversation that can be had here too about
about white men and black men.I know we're talking about two privileged people
period, because those are very wellpaying jobs. But like so, in
particular, the dominion voting system defamationtrial for Fox News being like one of

(09:50):
the most expensive lawsuits that there haveever been, and they're being just this
onslaught of discovery against Fox News,M Tucker Carlson, U Tucker Carlson.
In the midst of all of this, and I don't think only for this,
but in the midst of all thism has has parted ways. The
exact number for that in this defamationtrum by the way, it was seven
hundred and eighty seven point five milliondollars. That's that's was the settlement.

(10:13):
That's what was decided because there wasso much defamation against dominion voting systems and
the idea that these were faulty machinesthat they were responsible for essentially for costing
the nation the election in a fairelection. And so Fox News didn't make
any statements other than that Fox NewsMedia and Tucker Carlson imparted ways. But
what's interesting is if you've seen theclip of Don of Don Lemon and the

(10:37):
conversation that was had with the potentialGOP candidate about race in particular really about
African Americans and about the Second Amendment. My understanding at first was that there
was that exchange that was the resultof him being ousted from CNN, and
Don Lemon is an institution in CNN, just like I would say, I

(10:58):
don't know if he's more or lessof an institution than you know, there
the Silver Fox or anyone else.But there was actually then after that,
like a long apparently list of reasonswhy the network word. It's a part
ways. Apparently there's been like astring of behavior that was very misogynistic,
lots of comments that he's made orthat I don't know if they've been swiping
to the rug, if they werenever you know, maybe they were addressed

(11:18):
informally or quietly, But essentially itsounds like there's also the string of behavior
that's also just very agist and verysexist that's also come from him. But
comparing the two ideas, maybe oflike this this huge lawsuit that's based on
a very serious allegation against a company, and then also maybe like comments that
are like not so clear or unclear, like what do you kind of make

(11:39):
about the dismissal? In both ways, I do think Don Leman has or
at least his team I think hasmade statements to the effect of being shocked
and being yeah, there wasn't atleast a discussion and meeting. Apparently there
was nothing except to notice. Soyou know, there's that saying that black
people in general and black women especiallyhave to work twice as hard to get
half as far right. I thinkthe inverse is also true. We don't

(12:01):
have to do nearly as much toget in trouble. So Tucker Carlson cost
Fox millions and millions of dollars beforehe was outed. And Don Lemon he's
made inappropriate statements. I mean oneof the statements he made was that,
you know, Sarah Sarah Palin,I'm from South Carolina, So if I
still pay attention now that Sarah Palinwas beyond her prime because she was like

(12:24):
fifty one years old, I mean, it's just agias and sexist and osogynistic,
right, But you know, ifyou compare the crimes or the if
you compare the things that they've done, Don Lemon did something that was not
even a half as bad as TuckerCarlson and lost his job. So you
know, we gotta work twice ashard to get half as far, and
we gotta work twice as hard tostay out of trouble. You know.

(12:46):
Like that's just that's how it works. Which is interested because Nikki I talked
about this one. Nicki Haley saidthe same thing about the men, that
they were all the aged and soI'm like, how is that even a
thing? Nicki Haley said it?So I'm like, really is that?
I Mean, I see the differences, but I also think to your point,
it's like, um, well,I do believe that we're all capable
of misogyny, and that like certainlywhether or not sure you can absolutely be

(13:11):
a woman and be a misogynist andhaving a whole internal misogyny. And so
it's not a question to me oflike whether or not he's capable of you
know, maybe I've been a greathuman being. It's just the idea that
Fox would ever get rid of somebodyfor something like that, you know what
I mean, Like that, likethe level of ventury all that you hear
on Fox News on a regular basis, This would just be such an average
Tuesday. I'm not even gonna lie. I don't really think Don Lemon resonates

(13:31):
with me because I read an articlethat say, even after they fired him,
there's still like twenty five million dollarsdefinitely contract. Don't know how true
it is, but I just readthat article in passing He'll be fine.
My bigger thing, he'll be fine. My bigger thing is the fact that
somebody finally drew a line in thesand with the Republican partner and said,
no, we're not gonna still onthe sidelines. Leg you deflame our our

(13:52):
character, our company, and asa result, call hit them where it
hurts in their wallet. So nowyou gotta make a move because we didn't
se you in your wallet for themom money that you just said. So
now they had to make a moveand as a result, a very violent
individual was removed from the air.Now I don't know if that's good or
bad, because with social media youcan go create your own platform and really

(14:13):
go for broke. So I don'tknow if that's really good or bad.
Parts say, because Lisia had somerestraint with Fox News, which seems,
you know, like an oxymorn,but Lisa had some kind of restraint with
them. Now he may go createhis own platform and go for broke.
Not really sure how I feel aboutthat. But the point, well,
somebody drew a line with the RepublicanParty and said no this, we're not
tolerating it. We're gonna hit youwhere hurts in your wallet, so you'll

(14:33):
have to make a move. That'sthe part that I took away from all
of it. I'm like, I'mvery happy now at least we can see
that somebody can draw lines in thesand and they have to respect it,
because right now I've said it before. The Republicans are while and out,
they just doing all kinds of stuff. They out here while now doing all
kinds of creats and stuff. I'mglad somebody took a stand and they won.
So that's where I take away fromit. Like I said, Donna
be fine. It's unfortunate, itsucks. Hopefully he'll be replaced by somebody

(14:58):
of a person of color in thatspace. Hopefully, but here we are,
what's gonna say, because the diversitywill definitely take a little head out.
Yes, so I hope he isreplaced by another personal color. Yeah
for sure. Okay, faul So, So I do think to your point,
individually will be fine, Ye'll bedoes now does drunk down Lemon no
resonate with you? Because drunk donLemon does resonate with me? You know,

(15:18):
I'm not even gonna I love whatso weird. I don't. Honestly,
I don't pay attention to any ofthem. Honestly, I respect their
their journalism, but I don't lookon New Year's. I'm thinking about what
I'm doing for New Year's. I'mnot really thinking about these special shows on
New Year's. No, don't Idon't want nothing for the only person I'm
looking to in New Year's is Jesusfor the plan for next year and whatever

(15:39):
I'm doing. But outside these littlethings, watch Night Service for New Years.
That's what you're saying. Yes,ma'am, I'm I'm Apostolic. I
don't got to go to church onthese things exactly we shout and fallow.
I don't. I mean, Iwas in church this year. I'm trying
to think what was happening. UsuallyI'm unconscious by the time the New Year
comes in because they didn't slate us. But uh yeah, I was there.

(16:00):
My little sister made me, honestMichael front. So my listeners have
made me because I've been in andout church last year because just a lot
going on and happened. So Iwent in church and my first city got
me. It was like it's timefor you to get back in position.
So I think my listeners are intentionallysent me up. But it's fine,
you know, it is what itshouts out of the point of grace,
Bishop Reginald Moss and First Lady Moss. So yes, New Year's I'm in
Washing Night Service. Don't get thatoption. So no, I'm not paying

(16:22):
attention to drunk don limit on NewYear's I have been proven. I could
just you know this, you tryto play me, to play whatever?
Really quickly U to a story aboutDisney. We talked about the Santists and
Disney. I can't remember the Satan, that's that's what we named him.
To Satan. The Walt Disney Companyhas sued um the Florida governor, alleging

(16:45):
that he has waged relentless retaliation,yes to weaponize the government power over the
company. And we talked about thisat the after the result of a board
of an appointed board to Disney Companythat included several evangelical questions and also individuals
who have been accused of racism andanti semitism in the past. So Disney
is now striking back against the governor. It's escalating this feud. I know

(17:08):
what. We talked about this alittle bit as far as like this just
being a play, and the Florida'sGLP has cleared the way for the governor
to run for president in twenty twentyfour, so very much expecting this to
be all a part of some biggercampaign, of course, because they played
a long game. So I'm they'replanning seats for something, which if it's
Disney now, it maybe six Flagsnext. I don't know. I just

(17:30):
feel like, I mean, theydo stuff like that. It's maybe Disney
today. Hey, if you cantake down the House of Mouse, imagine
what you can do next. AndI think the interesting about this for me
is you don't realize how many specialprivileges, family centers of that magnitude have,
so to see this all unraveling andthe stuff they're trying to do a
way like I didn't even you neverthink about it. It's just like that

(17:51):
Disney is literally its own separate entityin Florida. You never think about it
until they start doing this. It'slike, wow, I didn't think about
special privileges and you not really bebeing governed by Florida in particular. It's
very interesting because you never I'd neverthink about it before we get into the
meat of it too, like themeat of what's actually driving this um Do
you have anything? I mean,one of the things I commented on was

(18:11):
like the irony of this this governmenttaking over a private company and trying to
govern their operations and give them tellthem ways to operate as being left the
most anti Republican being technically that youwould have ever expected to hear. So
I would love your thoughts just onthis, right, I mean, but
it's also straight out of the Republicanplaybook. I mean, I remember when
Coca Cola spoke out against one ofthe bills that we were trying to pass

(18:34):
in Georgia and said, hey,this is not good for business. They
immediately fast, let's just like filedlegislation to get rid of some of the
text credits at Coca Cola had.Right. Um, when Delta spoke out,
they said, you know what,We're going to get rid of your
your gas tax exemption, you know, because there's an exemption on jet fuel.
Like this is very much within thewhole playbook of Republicans, even though

(18:56):
it's actually fundamentally it's a big government, right like it is, Yeah,
government like reaching their hand down intoprivate corporations. Yes, um, but
but this is their playbook. AndI guarantee you you could go to every
state and you will see where they'vedone that in different places when they're mad
at some company for speaking out againsttheir ridiculousness. Yeah. So this this

(19:18):
fight began last year for for folks, a mania familiar with it when Disney
came out against a bill um thoseprops in Florida which limited classroom discussion about
orientation and identity. UM. Thetitle that you may have seen, or
at least the title that I sawa few times at that time was it
was called don't Say Gay by criticsand the governor its allies targeted the the
special tax district that allowed Disneys andbasically self governance operations, which sounds it

(19:40):
does sound maybe maybe interesting to hear, but it's also like it's what I
would expect for a private corporation,is to be able to self to self
coporation. I just never think like, yeah, I mean, it's so
so this is I think one ofthe reasons why I was so excited to
also have to talk to you aswell is because there has sort of been
i think an increasingly lud public outcryfrom I really can't even necessarily detail where

(20:03):
it's from. There's a conversation onpolitical rewind about how all of these discussions
had probably been going on for thelast decade or more inside classrooms at least
was introducing kids to the idea ofunderstanding what pronouns are and understanding at a
very early level, how to addresspeople in the way that you're supposed to,
in a way that's appropriate, ina way that has dignity, and
also to talk to people just aboutbasic concepts, like a conceptual understanding of

(20:26):
humanity. And I know some ofthe cause that was pointed to was actually,
like I think COVID's gay parents waytoo much time to scroll through their
kids papers literally for the first time, to actually look at what kids were
learning. And that's what it feltlike when I was listening to some of
these Florida lawmakers say like I couldn'tbelieve like what was on a little Johnny's

(20:47):
backpack. And I'm going to introducea piece of legislation next week. So
I am kind of interested in yourtake on on the reactions to all of
this, and maybe even on likewell, your stance actually on education being
a place where these conversations are heldbecause parents don't necessarily not how to have
these conversations. Sure, I mean, here's the thing, though, we've
got pronouns have been taught since thebeginning of teaching kids English. I mean,

(21:11):
I remember there was a little boyin my elementary school class, and
I think partly he had a list, but also he didn't understand pronouns,
and so he called everybody he likeeverybody was a he, and we would
always be like, no, I'ma sheet like. He did not know,
and so a teacher taught him thedifference between like she and he her

(21:32):
and right. Like you learn pronounsas a part of learning about grammar.
True, and it is actually apolitical statement. It's like it's a gender
identity statement. When you tell achild, okay, if a person presents
as a boy, you use he. That's talking about gender. So you
know, for the first grader who'sin the second grade, teachers who were

(21:53):
teaching pronouns as a part of thegrammar lesson, I don't know what they
do now. Yeah, well Ican tell you what they do because I
I can tell you I don't knowwhat they do in Florida, where they
have a don't say gay law,This is where they cannot talk about gender.
I really, like, genuinely andtruly do not know how you can
do a class on grammar in whichyou introduce children to pronounce which are a

(22:17):
part of speech. I don't knowhow they teach that and follow the law.
I mean, I guess the onlything that would be different is that
they in them, because we're taughtthat they're plural, but now people identify
that are singular with they in them. That's the only thing I'm like now
that will be interesting. Well,except the problem with the don't say gay
law, and we've had our owniteration here in Georgia that didn't pass,

(22:37):
is that it says that you cannottalk about gender identity and you can't talk
about this notion that somebody might decidewhat gender they want to be. And
the fact is, if you teachthis is he, this is she,
that means you are coding. You'rein coding within children an idea of oh
well, somebody might be called ahe, in some he might be called

(23:00):
a she, and I better figurethat out. And so the one the
way you figure out which pronoun touse is you either kind of look at
them or you ask them. Anda teacher now in Florida really and truly
cannot tell a child ask somebody whattheir pronouns are before you use them.
So it's not just about they andthem, it's about he and she.

(23:22):
And you know, when this billcame to Georgia, one of the statements
that I said was well, ifyou can't talk about gender, then you
can't play sports boys versus girls anymore. Facts, right, because like the
teacher, the pe teachers like,all right, boys go on one side,
that's gender, girls do on other, and you're letting children self decide
which side they're gonna go on.I mean, this is this is the

(23:42):
problem with Republicans is they don't thinkthrough the true implications of all these things.
They're only thinking about like the folkside of it, when in fact,
like doesn't. I mean, genderis just a part of it's a
part of how you teach children grammarand how to engage with people respectfully.
Yeah, you know. And sothat's that's where they fall short. It's

(24:03):
just they have this idea of theof this neutral space that doesn't exist,
Like they have this idea that there'sthis there's just these blank objective facts,
whether we're talking about identity, wherethey we're talking about race, or history
or the founding of this country orit's or its history. They really do
believe that anything new is something politicaland anything we are currently doing is just

(24:23):
completely objective and neutral. And it'sso it's so it's all so political you
are reading in these books. Haveyou been in a third grade classroom with
a little girl whose hair is cutshort? Can you tell just by looking
at them if you're a girl,even with the long hair, Because I
said that substitute, And sometimes I'mlike, that's a that's yeah, it's

(24:45):
it's it's hard and until kids hitpuberty, distinguishing gender is extra distinguished and
sex is extraordinarily difficult. Yeah,so you actually need to ask children before
you just assume. Yeah, it'sit's a thing. It's it's a whole
thing. And I feel bad becauseI'm like, I know you could look
at it, Kim, now that'sa boy girl. No, because I

(25:06):
said, there are boys that growtheir hair now and it's as long as
the girls, and you would assumeit's a girl. And I'm like,
because I've done it a couple oftimes, so the ones I'm not sure.
But I stayed a little quieter.I'm like, but because I don't
want to be and I mean,the kids don't get offended by I like,
well I'm a boy. I'm like, my bad. I thought I
got to get quiet. But yeah, it's not as distinguishable as it used

(25:26):
to be. You can like ooh, that's a grassive boy. Nope,
I mean to be fair, wedo this. We do this racially all
the time, right, Like it'svery easy for us to decide like what
race someone is. And I knowthat we're not necessarily talking about race in
every kindergarten classroom, but but atsome point during someone's education, like there
you do you should? I hopeyou develop an awareness of what race is

(25:47):
or what nationality is, but ethnicityis, and and having so many conversations
in classrooms at least at middle schooland high school levels where kids are talking
a little bit about who they are. Like if we just went around deciding
and trying to look at people basedon phenotype and ascribing and identity onto them,
like like the DMB line would beeven longer than it currently is.

(26:08):
For one, and for two,we also do expect to get an understanding
from that person, Like we doexpect to say, like, okay,
well you know, tell me aboutyourself. I can't just look at you
and decide do you identify as black? Right by racial or you know?
Right you ask people to say,who do you understand yourself to be?
Yeah, I think it's scarier tolike the legislative movements here, um that

(26:33):
we're seeing like all this censuring goingon and state legislatures for folks who are
just speaking out about this. Andin Montana, I think the first um,
the first trans identifying lawmaker was censuredand she was speaking about a bill,
speaking out against anti trans legislation andtechnically speak during this proceeding. There's

(26:55):
actually a teenager who threatened to selfharm I believe at the time, and
she was speaking out about this andshe was censured in this now having to
legislate from wherever remotely she's allowed tovote, she's not allowed to participate anymore.
This happened in Nebraska. This happenedum in one other state as well,
And like I know, we weretalking about in a different situation in
Tennessee. But it's like that's that'sfascinating too, Like the adults are now

(27:18):
basically being told what they can andcan't talk adults and with these these people
are telling them they can't do this. Who are like fundamentally supposed to be
the ones who really believe in allof our free space, right yeah,
like free speed like this that isso they are supposed to be the defenders
of the First Amendment and Second Amendment. But I mean, so Zoe,

(27:38):
the legislator that you talked about fromMontana, what she did. What she
said, you all, if youdon't provide gender firm and care, you
will have blood on your hands.And and she said, the next time
there's an implication and you bow yourhead, I hope you look down and
see the blood that is on yourhands. And for that, it's beautiful,
right, and it's and it's day, and it's condemning. And they

(28:00):
felt like it's all the right things. They feel bad, and so they
they stepped on her First Amendent rightsand said, you are not allowed on
the floor in the gallery, inthe anti room. You're basically not allowed
anywhere near where we are doing workbecause we don't want to hear from you.
We don't want to hear your voice, even though it is a duly

(28:21):
elected voice. Yeah. Well,that's the one thing I will say about
the Tennessee situation that it was theydid what they had to do, but
justice was swift. And I thinkthat's the joy. I have a boy
social media. It's like, ifyou can't get it where you get it,
hit public opinion because public opinion nowcarries weight. So I was happy
to see that that didn't like lingerand it was like, we're still waiting

(28:41):
to see if they've been reinstated.So I was very happy about that because
I was very worried because I said, Republicans played a long game. They
plant seeds, so if they couldget away with this, heaven forbid what
would have been next. So I'mvery glad that they were able to justice,
you know, show it up,and they would need to be done
because that would have set a wholestuff in motion. I don't think anybody
would be prepared for what do youthink maybe the future of this conversation looks

(29:04):
like, because I feel like nowwe're going through this, I don't know
how long we're gonna go through thisperiod where every single day there's another conversation
about bathrooms, which I still don'tunderstand. I felt that six year old
conversation. I feel like it wasdead in the water. Then. I
don't know what's going to revive ittechnically, morally don't I don't understand it,
But like, where do you kindof imagine this going? You can

(29:25):
speak to Georgia specifically or just ingeneral. Way well in Georgia. I
mean, if I'm thinking about continuedattacks on trans people, which is really
where we are, which I wantto also say, stands in the same
legacy of attacks on women and beingable to have choice around abortion. These
things are deeply entwined because it's allabout you individuals not being able to decide
what to do if they body andhow to present their body. And so

(29:51):
I think if we're thinking on thenefarious side, bathrooms are going to come
back. Even in Georgia, therewill be an attempt to prevent trans children
from using in the bathroom of theirchoice that aligns with their gender, and
I suspect that there will be somenefarious play around whether or not you can
get an updated birth certificate, anew gender marker on your ID. I

(30:12):
mean, all of those things aregoverned by state law. This is why
legislatorards matter. This is why peoplereally need to vote all the way down
the ballot, because that's where ithappens. It happens on the state level.
And so any attempt to get yourgender marker changed, I suspect that
we're going to see legislation that willprevent that, and we're going to continue
to see further attacks on censorship ofboth schools, libraries, books, what

(30:36):
teachers can say, all of that, all of that is coming, and
they are going to censor not justaround trans issues, but around LGBTQ issues
broadly speaking, and also race.It's it's coming. That's that's where we
are. Ye. Anytime we talkabout books though, that's I just get
chills, Like I get complete chillsthinking about like the idea of banning or
not teaching or forbidding certain books anywhere, like especially like anywhere for consumption.

(31:00):
And it's just like the most justit's the most draconian feeling thing to me.
I just feel like I feel likethe Republicans are like puppies and a
barb wire or an electric fence.They keep bucking it to see if they
can find weaknesses in it. Soonce they find that weakness, it's a
rap. I feel that's what they'reliterally doing. It's like, let's see
how much we can actually get awayfrom we get away with so we can
defy some different strategies. I feelthat's what we're doing because some of the

(31:22):
stuff they've done I would have neverthought to mean. Is we'll be talking
about in this day and age,Like I said, that little stunt in
Tennessee. I think that's what botheredme the most. I was like,
so we're sup. First of all, I didn't know y'all could do that,
which shame on me. I didn'tknow y'all could do that first and
foremost. And the second fact thaty'all did it, it's scary. It's
like, so now y'all are reallytesting boundaries. But this is also why
I tell folks what's written versus whatwe enforced is different. There are a

(31:47):
lot of things are on the booksthat just aren't enforced. So when they
do it, it's like, no, no, no, no, no,
it's written, yo, you guysjust don't enforce it. We need
to start looking at these things.Hey, what's what's written in these in
these books and places. We don'treally look at what's actually written because there
may come a day very soon we'regonna try to enforce it and it's actually
written. Well. I want toname one of the bills that we saw

(32:07):
pass in Georgia. It creates thiscounsel that is going to basically oversee all
prosecutors, all das in the stateof Georgia. Because as you know,
Ricardo, there's certain laws that arenot enforced. Right, So in Fulton
County, if you have small amountsof marijuana, the DA is not going
to prosecute that. They're just notit's not worth their time, it's not

(32:28):
worth the resources of the county,right, And that's true in the cab
County. That's also true an AthensClark. Well, this Prosecuting Account Council
Oversight Committee, they're designed to comeback and say, no, das,
you must enforce the law, youmust do that. And so we have
I mean, think about this though, this is dangerous. So very any
DA that says, you know,I'm not going to prosecute for low level

(32:52):
misdemeanors, I'm not going to prosecutefor drugs. I'm not going to prosecute
abortions. All these people to stepin. But also, we still have
anti sodomy laws on the book inGeorgia, and so the question is like
how far are we going to go. It's it's still illegal to have an
extra marital affair in Georgia on thebooks today. Shut up extra. Yeah,

(33:16):
it's a criminal, it's a crime. It is a crime to have
an extra marital affair. But dasuse their discretion. They are not Republicans
are not going to be if it'sthe prelude to something else they really want
to get to, they will knowwell they know they would all be in
jail. Yeah, but they wouldall be in jail. But that's the
question, right, like how farare they willing to go? It's it's

(33:37):
that it's incredibly scary. This cameup last session. Yeah. That so
the pack or the prosecutors at theprosecutor it's the prosecuting oversight committing yes,
but the pack that the pack thatdoes the campaign work. The Prosecuting Attorneys
Council of Georgia very very active,engaged, I believe, uh that's a

(34:00):
word, formidable force in the statelegislature, very vocal about legislation that they
support or do not support. Ivery rarely I'm interested in being on the
same side of any conversation with themand other actors. But this one in
particular, there was some alignment becauseI remember a lot of opposition last year.

(34:21):
I don't know if there was changesmade between last year and this year
for what they were looking for.But when I when I read the language,
my initial thought was actually because ofwhat had happened, what we saw
happened to um Ahmad Aarbury in southernGeorgia, And because of all these I
really thought, for maybe like thehalf a second, like, oh well,
maybe this could be a way ofensuring that black people get justice.

(34:45):
You couldn't. You couldn't for liketwo seconds it was framed that way.
At first, that wasn't an examplethat was given. And then I remember
the Hartbeat Bill and all of theseother very very clear questions about like how
do you even enforce something like howeven bre by partisan orsi? Oh no,
we even asked. That was oneof the requests was to make it

(35:05):
bipartisan? How does it be effectiveif it's not like oh? And they're
like, well, well, andthe response from this bill sponsor was,
well, this isn't partisan. Andwe said, but who are the appointees?
All of the appointees are given bythe governor, Lieutenant governor, speak
of the House, and the Presidentpro temp. Who were all Republicans,
right, And he's like, butit's not partisans, So would you make
it clear in the bill and givethe GLBC, you know, nominations or

(35:27):
give the minority leader you know.Nope, of course not. It is
absolutely a partisan board that will overseeall das across the state of Jordan.
Is this happening or is on thetable? Oh? No, that bill
passed. Oh that's real, thatis happening. It's really remarkable to me
too. I mean, there's it'sthere's so many offices that I feel like
should just be so much further removedfrom the legislature than they are, not

(35:51):
just district attorney's like sheriffs, likethere's there's it's so fascinating to me,
like that we would even want.There's already I think too much the nation
conversation alignment. I already feel likethese should just be offices that are just
so so separate from the legislature andthat you would want, like a Republican
like not only to have partisan influenceat the county level and all one hundred

(36:15):
fiftine counties in a striking state,but like also have like a state board.
It's just it's just like I thinkour forefathers would be really really hurt
by that. I think scared atthis stage the two fought for it's almost
being reversed right in front of us, Like it's literally, And I think
the scary part is the average Joedoes not realize what these things mean until

(36:36):
it literally shows up at the frontdoor. Like that's the scarier part.
It's like mobilization, getting them tovote things of that magnitude. It's like,
no, these things really this isbeyond you know, stuff in your
back door. This is like andthe grand scheme of things. Your kids
are going to grow up in aworld that may look like the one your
grandparents just got out of. Likeit may be framed differently, it's the

(36:58):
same concept, Like it's it's ascary thought. It's a scary thought.
I just yeah, And I justwant to like re emphasize why this is
so problematic. Whenever somebody gets arrestedfor a charge, the DA gets to
decide what the charge is, andyou see, and this is how you
see like stacks and stacks of indictment, right, so it'll be like the
person committed a crime and they didthis one thing. That's what we see.

(37:22):
We think, Oh, they hadum, they had a pound of
marijuana. So you and I aslate people would be like, Okay,
they're gonna get a charge for havinga pound of marijuana. But then the
DA might look at them and belike, no, I'm gonna charge you
for having a pound of marijuana.I'm gonna charge you with intent to distribute.
I'm gonna because it was found withinlike less than a mile of a

(37:42):
school. I'm gonna say intent toa distribute to a minor. Like they
can. They can decide to stackcharges hundreds of charges. Maybe that's so,
but charges any minute, dozens anddozens of charges for what you and
I as late people would you say, but it was just a pound of
one, And that's exactly what you'regonna say. In core, it was
just a pound of mirror. Idon't want to stand in front of it

(38:04):
or less because they don't need tobe pound and be far less right or
far less. And so this iswhy it matters that das have discretion,
because you would hope that they wouldsay, oh, let's just charge them
with the one thing. Um,But I'm always thinking, like kind of
long long term plan. We haveto long term plan, you know.
So this is a partisan party rightnow, that's gonna oversight committee that will

(38:25):
be ruled by Republicans. Long term, we elect a democratic governor, we
turn the House and the Senate,and then we are the Oversight Committee and
we're the ones who get to say, you know what, DA's none of
the stacking anymore. We're not goingto be charging people with twelve thirteen felonies
for one act Like that's that's thelong game here. It's to use this

(38:45):
whole system to actually provide some realcriminal justice relief. I mean, I
mean, I appreciate you you prayingthat longer picture, because it doesn't it's
like the parts that they're easy tosee coming together are the scariest part.
Okay. So another is a billintroduced or a legislation last year that was
brought up I think by the RulesChair at the time. But it was
about eliminating the nonpartisan election process,like it was about making sure everyone had

(39:08):
to run under a ticket. AndI know at the time, like I
think there were judges who are vocalin opposition to that and say they don't
want to have to run under aticket. And I think mayors was also
a conversation like that they should haveto be partisan. And I don't know
if that was if that's still goingto be a plan to introduce in part
two of this this cycle, butthat kind of felt similar, kind of
felt like we're just we don't wanta neutral, objective branch of government anymore.

(39:32):
We don't want there to be likelike then what happens to like what
about actual agents? Because there's alreadysuch clummingling amongst agencies, amongs, folks
who are outside of the legislature.So just I don't know, I don't
understand. I really feel like themove that sounds the most salient would be
removing all levels of a partis identification, and we are absolutely going the other
way. Well, I mean,it's it's when you look at out evolution

(39:54):
as a country, it's concerning,especially when you look at the statistics that
state that people of color will bein a bigger majority as we move forward.
And to look at our I'm gonnasay, forefarth because happens still a
live that it isn't hot and pullingstrengths from the back to wash them hold
a line on this old these oldideologies that not only don't fit society,

(40:15):
they just are not don't create anequilibrium amongst us. It's a scary thoughts,
like so what do we have todo kill all y'all off to actually
be able to progress, like weshould naturally progress and evolve, Like,
what is another true? Because there'sthey would have all been gone by now.
Um they craft kids have agreed,we learned from Burdocks, well crafty,
what can they create new generations?They do? And it's shocking.

(40:36):
Yeah, it's shocked. They callit generational wealth. They call it generational
wealth and generational oppression literally and otherthe guys of generational wealth? Well yeah,
which is better? Yeah? Andwhat's attached to this money you're passing
now? Like what are the bodycount looks like? But this money you've
passed down? What can what elsecan we say about the state? Like
I am so I know we didn'tget into this very very deeply, but

(40:57):
we were having conversations sort of aboutcontraception and women's bodies and ongoing lawsuits with
regard to certain medication that was happeningin certain states. I did want to
kind of get your thoughts on maybewhat's being next. Is there any legislation
or any any work that you planto support going forward that will do something
either to undermine our Heartbeat bill Iknow it's already passed, or what should

(41:23):
not just your constituents but like womenbe be thinking about or like what can
they mobilize around, or just billsin general. What kind of bill should
we be really worried about? NowI'm curious because you got you got inside
and inside a moment, so nowI'm very curious. Bill should we be
worried about that are either on thefloor hitting the floor, just got passed
or whatnot. Yeah, I mean, anything that you see that's happening that's
bad in other states, it's comingto us. Like, that's just heads

(41:45):
up, right, So don't saygay further attracts on tax on trans kids,
further voter suppression laws, anything thatyou see that's like havinging in Oklahoma
or Montana anywhere else that Republicans areleading that are bad, it's coming to
us. Um. So that's oneof the heads ups. I will say.
I think we're fighting really hard tocontinue to protect access to medication via

(42:07):
mail. Um for in terms ofthe abortion pill, as long as we
can. For one thing, it'simpossible to enforce, right, like literally
it's impossible to enforce, but justin case, we want to continue to
protect and make sure that people canreceive medications via mail, and that can
include the abortion bill um. Andthen the other thing that we'll have to
watch for. You know, theFDA is in the final stages of approving

(42:30):
and over the counter pill for contraception, like the pill that that like the
pill pill. Yeah, yeah,the birth control bill. They are I
mean, they're within weeks of approvingand over the counter version of that.
And there is a far right sectof people who I guarantee you are going

(42:52):
to try to introduce legislation in Georgiato prevent that from being on our counters.
Wow, because people it's preventative,even though it well, because it
promotes. What they will say isthat the pill, having access to the
pill promotes extramarital sex. Sex,it's outside of the desire to procreate a

(43:13):
really argument that is absolutely there's theentire the entire Council of Catholic Bishops came
out opposed to providing the pill overthe counter because they are concerned that it
will result in more recreational sex.So that bill will come to Georgia that
will prohibit us from putting the pillover the counter. It's coming. Yeah.

(43:39):
I just have to laugh at thesethings, like you seriously are holding
on to this. That's the wholeabstinence discussion, that we should just be
pushing abstinence. Well, that isthe approved sex education program in Georgia.
So Jane Elliott, who is avery well known at anti racist educator,

(44:00):
a white white woman who teaches antiwhite racism two whites. Um, and
it's very prolific for it. Canyou? She talks about how this entire
abortion competition is really rooted in race. Um. I was going to say,
what would be kind of your stanceon that? In her argument?
Of course, just because you justmentioned the statistic is that you know,
white supremacy has decided that because thepopulation is shifting so rapidly, they've got

(44:21):
to to save the population and preventsthese abortions. How do you think about
that? That that Yeah, thatmakes a lot of sense. Yeah,
I do think that that's a pieceof it is that white people are very
invested in procreation, and it's justa fact white people don't pro create nearly
as much as other people of thepopulations. However, what we what we
know to also be true from hislike is just from history, is that

(44:44):
you don't have to be the majorityto still have supremacist power. Right,
So they continuously proved. Right.I mean, if you think about South
Carolina during the age of slavery,there were you know, for every one
white person, there were three fourblack people. Right, they were extraordinarily
outnumbered, and yet they still heldthe reins of power. And so even

(45:07):
as our populations didn't help, gunshelp substantially that, right, so did
the lash, and so did notgiving people access to education. Yeah,
like, there are all kinds ofthings that go into that, and so
as we think about white supremacy's nextmovements, we have to be on guard

(45:28):
to make sure that our children canreceive education, that our children have civics
education, because these are the thingsthat that white supremacy has been really intentional
saying. We know how to keeppeople down. Ye suppress his suppress your
history, We suppress you know nowhow this process works. We suppress your
ability to get education. So allof those articles that came out just maybe

(45:50):
five years ago about the number ofexpulsions that black children were receiving compared to
white children, those need to bealarming to us because that is a part
of the tool of white supremacy isto put our kids out of school.
It's to deny the education, sothat even when they are that minority in
terms of numbers, they can maintainthe majority in terms of power. Facts,

(46:12):
absolute facts. I mean that wasa word literally, so we I
mean we could have sat there maybeSo as so as as a priest,
will you be speaking to the Catholicsand to the Catholic delegation about about some
of these issues? Is that anotherdual role that that you could potentially play?
Actually my question, are you apart of a more progressive movement?
I am? Okay, I'm inepiscope and okay, because I know the

(46:34):
old school, I know nothing aboutthat. What does that mean for folks
who don't who may not either?Yeah, So I'm an episcopal priest,
which you know, people actually referredus as Catholic light. So our church
structure looks a lot like the Catholicstructure, except we don't have a pope
m and we ordained women obviously I'ma woman. We are dained queer people.
I am queer, we are dainedpeople of color. I am all

(46:54):
those things right and so um,and we just have a really different progressive
theology around a lot of different things. As as Christians who are a part
of the kind of Protestant Episcopal tradition. I will say, you know,
Catholics on issues of justice, wecan actually work really well and closely together
on a lot of justice issues,but it's this issue of women's choice where

(47:17):
things really fall apart because of theirvery conservative beliefs around sex. We've talked
a little bit. I know wedon't have too much time, but I
do want to talk about money too, and then also talk to you about
maybe your next step. So we'vewe've talked a lot about affordable housing and
the rising costs absolutely everything Jelly wasfive dollars yesterday in the story something I

(47:37):
saw, how Ea, what dowe talk about the state budget? Like,
what we what folks should expect?Is there anything you were really disappointed
and really excited about? Yeah?I mean, so this is some nuance
to this where many of us willqualify for a refund from the state.
The state basically had a whole lotof quote extra money. Republicans are since

(48:00):
we have all this extra money astax dollars, so we should return it
back. So most people qualify fortwo hundred and fifty dollars refund refund.
I'm super disappointed about that because asyou all know we don't have enough to
cover the needs. That was gonnabe my next question. It's like when
somebody sent money back. I thinkit was COVID money, I can't remember
what, and I was like,how did you? They haven't gotten their

(48:22):
rent paid yet, and that moneywe're supposed to be dispensed to them,
So how do you sending money back? So who got any of it?
Well, that's the thing. Thestate has a whole bunch of it,
and they're earning all kinds of intereston it. That's completely unregulated, and
nobody is beholding too, and sothat's super problematic. And then the other

(48:43):
piece I do want to name,because I feel like the Senate has taken
a huge beating for this, isthat we cut the University System of Georgia's
budget by sixty six million dollars.It's a big cut. That's a lot
of money. But the University Systemof Georgia has three point one billion dollars
the Rainy Day Fund. Are youserious? Yes? Yeah, universities do
tend to keep I've seen articles aboutI thought there was only private, elite

(49:06):
universities that seems have these huge schools, say schools and stay schools have over
built like billions of dollars in theirkind of rainy day or andy and become
you right, and so were well, that actually what we are doing by
saying, you know, we've cutyour budget by sixty six million dollars,
it's almost forcing their hand to say, look, man, you need to

(49:29):
spend down your money, but youcan't just keep getting a major block grant,
because that's what the state does.In the state budget. We give
a huge block grant to the UniversitySystem of Georgia and then the Board of
Regents distributes those funds to each individualschool according to need, according to population.
So this is our signal to theUSG to the University State Georgia regent

(49:52):
system to say, we cut yourbudget, but we know you got some
money to cut literally like so getout of reserve and ACTU to use it.
We think we thank you for that. We have no reserves, the
people I have no reserves. Wellthat's that's the next question. So where
did the money y'all cut? Whereis that going? Yeah, I mean
so we just shifted it over toother needs. Right, So, um,

(50:13):
we have health insurance that continues tobe an increasing thing for us state,
the state health plan UM needed someshu ring up in terms of our
premiums have gone up substantially, sowe needed to add more money so that
instead of teachers having to use theirsalaries to pay for the increase in health
insurance, UM, we're gonna helpoff set that. So there are a

(50:34):
couple of different things, but Ithink I remain fundamentally really disappointed about how
we've chosen to use our our rainyday funds or not use them UM.
And the last thing I'll say aboutpeople who have hoards of money. The
lottery. You know that Georgia lotterythat's set up to provide free K four
K and to provide Hope scholarships.Well, the lottery also has billions of

(50:59):
dollars that they are just holding ontowhat billion, So how are they like
operating? They're just using the minimalamount to operate just so they go hog
stalk the rest of it. Theyjust yeah, exactly like they just got
I don't know, like somewhere backin the room, they got a whole
bunch of the requirement over how muchthey have to give out in the lottery.
There's a requirement of how much theyhave to keep on hand in the

(51:19):
event that somebody hits the lottery reallyreally big, right, but they have
like five times more than that amount. We need to give us some mini
lotteries. Forget forget these twenty ninebillion dollars lotteries. Can we get a
ten K fifteen K and give atleast a thousand people? I know what
we need to actually do is fullyfun pre k. We've got four year
old who are on a wait listto get into four K. Now what

(51:42):
four year old do you know canwait a whole year and still be four
years old? Literally? Right?It's not possibly making me emotional. This
is worse than I expected. I'mlooking at the long term game. So
I guess my question is, Okay, so we're stop up all of this
money. What there's got to bea plan for this money. Some somebody's
got a plan for this money.Someone So it was like, what is
the game plan? That is agreat question, and who has oversighted this?

(52:04):
Like who can better? Because thelottery is the one who's in charge
of it on it this and wetalk about Georgia specifically Georgia specific lottery.
So one thing that we did waswe said, okay, well, at
the very least you're gonna fund hopefully, so it is one hundred percent hope
Scott. You remember when it wasfirst introduced, that was how they got
Christians to buy in, to buyinto it was saying we're gonna give full

(52:24):
tuition. Well we're back to fulltuition finally as a way to help try
to spend down some of that money. But also we have lower enrollment.
Yeah, I don't so the lotteryis still gonna win. They're winning.
Maybe maybe it's education, since clearlythere's an increasing need for for people to
career, pivot and take on asecond and third and fourth lifetime and come

(52:45):
out of retirement. I thought aboutgoing in the world, and I thought,
I know that's why I was.I'm thinking about going in the world,
and I'm not good in my hands. When your feet on feet finder,
that is also very lucrative. Thefact that you seg that's very concerning.
But I'm just saying the fact youknow that is also a concern.
Think I love my wife, butshe has great feet and extra money getting

(53:07):
hurt. I want to I wantto have a we from a legitimate going
in the world. You want totake a picture your feet for creeps on
the internet to get paid. Thisis that boardhouse wife that we were talking
about. You been doing this,This is a part of that anyway,
and she will, we would,we would will, and we'll keep people
posted. The point I think thepoint of this more so is that though

(53:30):
that like we have had to takeon I think in general, the idea
of having a just decent pain peoplethat have three, four or five,
six seven income streams at this pointincreasingly, and I know we talked about
folks who have like sold their homesbecause it's just not worth it to be
a homeowners, which is going tomy next investment. Can't really those things
look like do you have? Ihave a lot of thoughts about tiny houses.

(53:53):
I think that they're really really cool, but but they are a whole
lot more expensive than most people expectthem to being. Well, I saw
when did you give from Amazon forthree thousand? Yeah, it's not gonna
have any plumbing or electricity. It'salso currently illegal in Georgia to build a
tiny house without plumbing. In mostcounties don't allow for you to have a

(54:13):
house that's less than a two hundredand fifty square feet, So they are
all kinds of research. People pleasepeople to do a lot of research before
you get them. But also thereare a lot of things that need to
happen on the local level to makethese like actually illegal things that are scalable.
And I'm all for it. Iwork with people who are experiencing homelessness
on a daily basis, Like Iam all for creative ways that were bringing

(54:35):
housing, and they're just some realold fashioned, old school laws that we
have in place that are going toprevent that from happening. So there's work
to be done on the local leveland on the state level to really make
it a thing. I'd remind myselfevery might have an innovative idea that I
live in Georgia. Innovative idea.I remind myself that I live in Georgia,
and these innovative ideas are just notencouraged. I can't do that,

(54:58):
though, because I don't think mysis just wanted that for me. I
don't think they wanted for you tolook at a tiny house. I don't
think that's what they wanted from thewoman that was following the Gwyneth Paltrow's trial
with popcorn and actual interests. Really, this is this is what you got.
I know she think about tiny houses. She feels like they should not
be there. I know that PeterPerry, who was fourteen years old when

(55:21):
he was shipped over here from Nigeria, did not intend for me start to
live in a tiny All the thingsyou decided to take a stand to one,
you decided to stand on tiny housesanyway. But before we coo do,
before we before we run out oftime completely, can you tell us
what your next steps are? You'vebeen many first at first? What is
your What is your plan? Doesn'tbe your father ten year plan? Are

(55:44):
you interested in and leadership? Areyou interested in moving to the federal space?
Please say no? Or you canyou just talk to folks about what
really? Thank you? Really?Please please no. I'm not interested in
running for any other office, andthe one I'm in right now like that
I feel really committed to. Infact, before I decided to run,

(56:05):
I had some conversations with people whowere willing to invest in my race,
and one of the promises and commitmentsthat I made was that I would not
leave being the Senate until I waseffective at it. And it just takes
time, right, I mean,I'm in my third year, I've done
three sessions or four sessions. NowI'm much better than when I started,
but there's a steep learning curve,and fundamentally, for me, I want

(56:28):
to make sure that I represented mydistrict as well as possible, and that
requires some longevity. So I'll bearound for another few years for sure.
Actually shift it back, because nowI got you here, I can ask
this question, Yeah, what isit? Because me and a friend was
having a whole argument about this.What does a day in the life of
a senator look like? Is itlike sitting in the chamber of reading one
hundred page bills all the time?Like, what does it look like?

(56:51):
It is? Unfortunately, most peopleare not reading the bills. I will
tell you that now. So it'snot that I do I read my legislation.
I do read bills, but thatis a minority that's a minority job.
So I will say it usually lookslike a lot of meetings. Right,
we start the morning with caucus meeting, where everybody in our party is
meeting together. We're meeting with lobbyistson a regular basis, meeting with constituents,

(57:15):
advocates of various shapes inside, Likejust because you don't. Just because
you don't live in my district doesn'tmean people don't come to see me.
Like I mean, every Transparent CAREShas come to my office to talk about
that issue because they know I'm alistening ear. So I have a whole
lot of conversations. And then atnight for me, it's reading bills,

(57:37):
and it's reading bills closely. It'spreparing for committee because we have these committee
meetings, which is where actual worktakes place. Like that's how you edit
up if you really want to amenda bill, it gets done mostly in
committee if you want to, ifyou really want to change people's thoughts and
hearts and minds on a bill,it happens to you're much more persuasive in
committee. And so I come readyand armed with lots of questions for those

(58:00):
bills and committee. But it's Imean, dude, it's your job.
I just thought the people but canyou okay, but can you so so
to that point exactly like you mentionedkind of whether or not you're effective your
she's I feel like one of afew people who spends a lot of time
actually being very persuasive with the otherside, right, And like this is
a red place. So how doyou get to that point, like I

(58:23):
feel like in a very short timeto where you're someone who is having really
effective conversations with Republicans. Yeah.So actually I talk a lot about this
in my podcast, on my podcastGod Goes to Government, I'll plug that
again. But I've been very intentionalabout seeing people as people and not the
policy that they present, and soI've built real relationships. I have genuine

(58:46):
friendships with Republicans who pass horrible bills, but bills that hurt my community,
bills that I would never agree to, you, bills that lock people up
longer, like I am very awarethat they do that. And I also
can tell you the names of theirkids and like what they like to drink
when we have drinks together. AndI've built meaningful relationships. So when there

(59:08):
are these issues where it's not reallypartisan, say for instance, homelessness,
they're more willing to hear me.That's probably one of my greatest accomplishments of
last of last session is that wehad we started with a really bad homelessness
bill that would have forced people togo into state run encampments, so like

(59:28):
think ten cities right, Like,it would have forced that onto us there
were It was just a really reallybad bill, and it would have penalized
Yeah sixty s B sixty two.It would have penalized cities, counties,
and nonprofits who were basically letting peoplecontinue to sleep outside in camp as opposed
to like shipping them off to theseencampments. It was horrible. And I

(59:51):
think that because I have these realgenuine relationships with Republicans, and because they
respect me as somebody who works withpeople experiencing homelessness, and they respect me
as a piece, as a priest, as a pastor um, you know,
I was able to talk them outof a lot of that. And
what we ended up with, Imean, here's the thing Republicans don't lose.
So SB sixty two it passed,but what it looks like today is

(01:00:14):
markedly different than damage start. Wedid substantial damage control. And it's because
I have trusted relationships with the sameexact men who pass horrible bills that hurt
my community. That's that God thingin you. I was gonna say,
you gotta be Yeah, what's interestwhat's coming down for Stone Mountain? Anything
specific to Stone, because I likesaid, I live in Stone Mountin anything

(01:00:35):
specific coming into Stone Mountain. Thatwould be good. Well, I think
we're going to continue to have realconversations about the Stone Mountain Park itself.
Oh god, I forgot I sawthat was back in the on the agenda.
Well, we'll continue, I'm andI think that they'll move in in
good directions. So there's real movesto remove some of the Confederate flags.
UM. I think in the nexttwenty years or so we'll rename the streets.

(01:00:57):
I don't give me a long timetomorrow, but I think that's good.
I will say also, UM,Stone Mountain has a really large immigrant
population. Really we do. Yes, it's it's huge. UM. It's
a spillover from Clarkson, so Clarksonis almost full. And so refugees who
are resettled in Clarkson they can't reallyresettle in Clarkson, so now they live

(01:01:19):
in Stone Mountain. UM. Andso they're really good things I think coming
down the pike for young refugees andyoung immigrants. In terms of access to
education, I'm very optimistic and Ido see pathways for them to be able
to go to our public schools UMwith in state tuition that that's coming UM
and so that's exciting. I thinknew job opportunities specifically for that kind of

(01:01:42):
first generation crowd of folks that's notthe chicken factory, right, that's not
the chicken factory, and it's notthe farmer's market. Those those things are
also coming um and then Stone Mountainitself will get a facelift. So yeah,
the city or like Memorial Drive,that kind of long yet Memorial Drive,
it's long overdue and it's coming.So there will be a real facelift

(01:02:04):
with some new with some new developmentand not affordable housing, but nice restaurants
because that's what we've been asking for. So yeah, I've realized that.
I was like, I want togo sit down somewhere. I was like,
where am I gonna go? Becauseit's not really a lot of course
attraction. It will become much moreof a so not that not just the
mountain, but the actual should beYeah. Yeah, the drive to get
there will become much more developed.And so that has this pluses and minuses,

(01:02:30):
right, because there are people whodon't have a whole lot of money
who live along Memorial Drive who willbe displaced. I mean it's called gentrification.
Yeah, and there are a lotof them living in those hotels all
Memorial Drive. It's it's said you'reearly enough along that like start having some
of those conversations and trying to againlike see if there's some intentionality that can
be brought right, right right,and and there will be. I think,

(01:02:50):
although I will say this and Iwant to be like really clear,
Black people who have money have notbeen very kind about trying to create laws
of Black people who don't have money. I always talk about there's a great
vid at that's been very true whenStone Mountain every like many many efforts to
create affordable housing, they've been pushedback, and it's from black members of the

(01:03:13):
community who have money. Yeah,the dynamic of Stone Mountain because you know,
I moved the Stone Mountain during COVID, so those two years I didn't
really get to looking around. Imoved from Carbure. So now that I'm
looking around, it's like I toldyou, I was doing uber for a
little spell delivering food, and someof the communities that I went into they
were pocketed, like in the corner. I'm like, these are million dollar
houses and pockets just places you wouldn'teven think they were. Yeah, it's

(01:03:37):
it's Stone Mountain. It is verydiverse is not the word. It's very
like, yeah, segmented and fragmented. It's crazy, like I'm not gonnae
I want to move in those neighborhoods. The real races are there's wealthy people
and I'm not wealthy people. Thoseare like the real races. And then
colors just like I think it's likesecondary it's it's yeah, that does not
surprise me at all because I saidthose pockets and we're to my nice million

(01:04:00):
dollar homes in the weirdest places.Well, some of the most well educated
black people. I mean there's awhole generation just kind of the east of
Stone Mountain that had the largest numberof Black PhDs in the entire metro region.
They'd all kind of settled there inthat same area, and most of
them worked at the CDC. Solike there is true black wealth, there's
black education that is there, andsometimes we are on the same page about

(01:04:27):
things. But when it comes toaffordable housing, when it comes to like
density and population, because every homethat you've named, they not living it's
not multi family, right, no, they're not living up on top of
each other. Like increased density,which is absolutely necessary in order for us
to have enough housing. That issomething that people are opposed to, affordable
housing. They think that that's justfor poor people. They don't want to

(01:04:50):
live near poor people. All ofthose things are an issue, and that's
it's a fight amongst ourselves. It'sa terrible fight amongst ourselves. And it's
it's and stone Mountain. When it'sbad, it's bad. When it's good
as good, Like you could makethe distinction when you're driving down different streets
and it's yeah, I'm not surprisedthat he you said it. I expected
you to say that. Yeah.Between that and the dollar generals and the

(01:05:12):
family dollars on every corner, Icould throw a rock and hit three of
them. It's so you know,there's a moratorium intocap Janni. They can't
build anyone I heard. Thank godthat I respect them. But at the
same token, the trade off,it's like you just create food deserts because
they don't provide fresh fruit or anythinglike that. They just give you the
knick knacks and things that you canafford but that you don't necessarily need.
So I'm glad that happened. It'sit's I think it's like three around my

(01:05:36):
house. It's convenient, but Idon't have kids, so I'm not you
know, buying the snacks and thenthe things. So yeah, there's that.
Okay, this is a very interestingconversation. This was ahighlight of my
day. Oh I knew it wouldbe. Oh spare me now. This
has been really fun. So thankyou all. I really appreciate you having

(01:05:56):
me. Of course, final thoughts, well, I hope that people will
see from this conversation that engagement inlocal politics is really important. Right.
We spent the top of the hourtalking a bit about Trump, but most
of this hour has been about theways that state legislation, local zoning,
how those things matter to you,and so get engaged in some ways.

(01:06:18):
It doesn't really matter who you've aforeat the top of the ticket when it
comes to how good your schools are. What can be talking to your schools,
whether or not you can get aprescription in your local CBS. That
stuff is. It's your state legislators, it's your school board, it's your
county commissioners, it's your mayors,and so please get engaged on that level.

(01:06:41):
And it's a whole lot less overwhelming. I will say that, like
trying to understand the federal level,it's a lot more complicated. So get
engaged on the local level and thenteach others because that's how we fight white
supremacy. That's how we break downthese barriers. It's by getting engaged and
getting educated and educating others about it. That's true. I'm coming to your
office because you're my senator, soI actually will come into your office.

(01:07:03):
We'll come on. I'd love tohave you. Ever, We'll give you
a whole VAPI tour. Oh mygod, I don't tell me that.
I love that words saying to Iget everybody. But you know it's nice.
Okay, you could have saved thatpart. Okay. I was feeling
very special until you said, Dad, It's like the fact that I personally
give the tours is special. Mostsenators do not do that. You really
do, do you? In thegold elevators? I do? Yes?

(01:07:25):
Wait, do I talk to theperson I talked to get the scheduled to
made that happen? Yes? Youdo? Say less um No. I
just to thank you again for comingand for sharing with everybody about what's going
on, and also for doing itin a way that helps it feel so
accessible because I do think everyone shouldan know their own lawmaker, but also
the state. That state capital isyour house, so technically speaking, it
is meant to be walked in,It is meant to be known. You

(01:07:46):
should understand where where things are.There is nothing wrong with pop popping up
and seeing what's going on, andjust to continue to be engaged despite the
fact that we're moving out of thelegislative session of legislative cycle, because I
think this is a good time actuallytoo meet your longmaker if you haven't so
far, they're probably much more available. Um yeah, So I would tell
everybody to take advantage of the opportunity. All right, So special thanks to

(01:08:08):
family friend Senator Jackson. Thank youfor coming through for always fun, always
fun and as usual we see thesame time, same place, and the
leadership been lat podcast with the OldSpircaldi Rice