September 26, 2025 • 41 mins
Leslie is joined by Amber Miller, Director of the USW’s Rapid Response Department, a roughly 30-year tradition of member-driven, issue-based, nonpartisan legislative activism.
Amber has been a proud second-generation Steelworker since 1997 where she began her career at Chase Brass and Copper in northwest Ohio.
The two discuss how gerrymandering is a clear and present danger to working families, and what can be done to fight back.
Gerrymandering allows politicians to redraw district maps in ways that protect their own power instead of reflecting the will of the people, silencing working families and communities of color.
From Texas to Missouri, these power grabs undermine democracy, suppress votes, and weaken the voices of everyday citizens.
Yet history shows that when working people organize—whether through ballot initiatives or grassroots campaigns—they can push back against partisan manipulation.
States like Michigan prove that fair districting is possible, ensuring representatives are accountable to voters rather than corporate or political interests.
Follow the USW on Facebook, Instagram and X, using the handle @steelworkers, and visit their website at www.USW.org. Also, check them out on Blue Sky where their handle is @steelworkers.bsky.social.
Amber's handle on X is @AmberUSWRR.
(Image Credit: Leslie Bonilla Muñiz/Indiana Capital Chronicle)
Amber has been a proud second-generation Steelworker since 1997 where she began her career at Chase Brass and Copper in northwest Ohio.
The two discuss how gerrymandering is a clear and present danger to working families, and what can be done to fight back.
Gerrymandering allows politicians to redraw district maps in ways that protect their own power instead of reflecting the will of the people, silencing working families and communities of color.
From Texas to Missouri, these power grabs undermine democracy, suppress votes, and weaken the voices of everyday citizens.
Yet history shows that when working people organize—whether through ballot initiatives or grassroots campaigns—they can push back against partisan manipulation.
States like Michigan prove that fair districting is possible, ensuring representatives are accountable to voters rather than corporate or political interests.
Follow the USW on Facebook, Instagram and X, using the handle @steelworkers, and visit their website at www.USW.org. Also, check them out on Blue Sky where their handle is @steelworkers.bsky.social.
Amber's handle on X is @AmberUSWRR.
(Image Credit: Leslie Bonilla Muñiz/Indiana Capital Chronicle)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Leslie Marshall Show, the only true Democracy and Talk
radio of four and by you the people, live nationwide
and streaming live at Leslie Marshallshow dot Com.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Here to set your free and woman. You got your women, well,
you got women because joining us today. Hi, I'm Leslie
Marshall and welcome to the only true Democracy and Talk.
However you get the program, whether you do it live
or tape delayed, you know with podcasts and streaming, we
really appreciate appreciate you listening and watching, and there's a
lot to talk about today. Joining us is Zambramiller. Amber
(01:00):
is director of the usw's Rapid Response Department. Now it
is a roughly thirty year tradition of member driven, issue based,
nonpartisan legislative activism. She's been a proud second generation steel
worker since nineteen ninety seven, where she began her career
at Chase Brass and Copper in Northwest Ohio. She hasn't
(01:22):
been on the show in almost two years. We loved
having her then, glad to have her back today, way
past time to do so and have her back. Good
to have her with us and be sure for the USW.
Follow them on Facebook, on Instagram on x they're handled
there as at steel Workers. Visit their website plethor of
information there USW dot org and also check them out
(01:42):
on Blue Sky. They're handled there at Steelworkers dot bsky
dot social and Amber on X is at amber uswirr
Amber or would you prefer to have me be formal
with you? Would call you Ms Miller? What do you prefer?
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Amber is just fine, I'm with you.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Thank you for joining us, A very good good to
have you with us. You know, we're hearing a lot
from both sides of the aisle, and you work in
a non you know, partisan you know division within the
US w about jerry mandering.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
We hear the you know, president makes a.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Phone call to the governor in Texas he wants it
done here in my state of California. My governor goes, okay,
well you take five. You know, you take five, We're
going to take your five, and we have up to nine.
And now it becomes a domino effect. But one of
the effects people don't look at is how that threatens
working families. Jerry mandering, right, we know that every decade
(02:37):
politicians re draw the district lines. That's called redistricting. And
the way it used to be done right every ten years.
People consider that to be a fair way of doning
doing it because it reflects the people, It reflects that population.
And then everybody's doing it right, left and right, Democrat
and Republican, h you know, red state, blue state, north south, whatever.
(03:00):
And the tradition is that follows the census, which you
know makes sense to a lot of people. But politicians
are certainly in have in the past few election cycles,
twisting it to protect their own power. And I guess
we were going to say protect even it's an outright
power grab. So let's talk about this because this avenue
(03:24):
where politicians actually are picking their voters instead of voters
are picking their politicians, can do great harm to communities,
great harm to the working class, great harm to their constituencies,
the majority of their constituencies in many of these states.
Talk to us about that.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Yeah, and you said it perfectly, Leslie. It's really the
process of politicians picking their voters. And you know, when
that happens, you cannot get like a clear sense of
who it is that you're representing, you know, and you
know it's not a new thing. It's dates all the
way back to the eighteen hundreds, and I actually, this
is something I learned just this year that it's actually
(04:05):
named after jerrymandering. As a Massachusetts governor, his name was
Elbridge Jerry and he tried to draw this crazy, ridiculous
district in the city of Boston actually, and it resembled
a salamander. So they coined the term jerrymandering, which I
thought was kind of odd.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
You know, you know what I did not.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
I'm from Boston, right born, a born, bred, raised in Massachusetts,
and I love history and I did pay attention to school,
mostly especially history.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
I never knew that until you just said it right now.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
That's fascinating, yeah, you know. And then the Supreme Court
making it a little worse than twenty nineteen because they
ruled that courts can't block partisan jerrymanders, and so there
really isn't a lot of ways to fight back other
than you know, the citizens standing up and doing that.
And that's sort of what's happening in some of the states,
Missouri being one of them right now. But like you said,
(04:58):
that process it really hurt, it's everybody. It allows for
very extremist policies to happen in a lot less accountability
because you know, these legislators can make these these decisions
not be accountable to their voters, and really there's no
way to get them out of office because they have
carved out that section of voters who they know is
(05:19):
are always going to support them. You know, I've seen
it over the years. Ohio, the where I grew up
in Northwest Ohio, Mercy capped her when the last time
they redistricted her. It is insane. I mean it's like
they actually drew her around Toledo and then all the
way over to Northwest Ohio in a very very rural area.
(05:42):
I think with the hopes of getting her out. Surprisingly enough,
she ended up winning that election, which is good, but
you know she's she's got to do it again and
it's tough. But it really impacts, you know, communities of
color very differently. It suppresses the vote and really denies
voices within the communities and how these folks, how these
(06:06):
folks do their their legislating.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
So people watching and listening understand because some people would think, well, California,
they're attacking Republicans, and Texas they're attacking Democrats or trying
to eliminate people from where if it's a red state
they want to silence blue voices, and blue state they
want to silence red voices. People would say, how does
it specifically silence the working people? You know, obviously if
(06:32):
you deny somebody their vote. You know, people understand when
you look at states, they usually do demographics, you know,
with regard to race, you know, primarily so you see
how it affects communities of color, specifically the black community,
the Latino community in different states. But it doesn't always
and there are those numbers out there, doesn't always show
(06:54):
how it's affecting people regardless of their race, how it's
affecting the working class. So can can you explain that
for folks that may look at a map and not
see that because it's broken down along lines of color,
or they just see it as red, blue, left, right.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Yeah, so I'll give you a good example. I feel
like Michigan is a good example. They did some gerrymandering
well over a decade ago, well over a decade ago,
and then back in twenty twelve that the folks that
were in power are very anti labor, and of course
they were able to push right to work through in
(07:30):
the state of Michigan, and then a few years ago
they redrew the lines I think in the right way
where they had a like a an independent group of
folks of citizens actually look at the lines to redrawas
and make sure they were fair and we overturn right
to work. So a lot of times these folks who
(07:52):
are doing this powergraph, they have an agenda. It's generally
a corporate agenda in these cases that are happening right now.
I do want to recognize, like you pointed out, this
happens with both parties, but you know that is one
of the ways they are able to push their agenda
through the states and honestly stack the federal government as well,
(08:13):
you know, I mean, if you're looking at Texas, they
just obviously somebody saw Texas as a risk, you know,
in terms of the makeup of the legislators and saw
the need to take them out, and that's what happened.
So anytime that happens and our voices aren't aren't being
heard properly, that directly impacts working people, and especially in
(08:37):
the ways that our union in particular, we have a
very heavy focus on what we call our core values,
and so that's like collective bargaining and health care, making
sure health care is affordable, retirement security, really all the
reasons that people want to be in a union, and
those are very opposite of a corporate agenda. So you know,
(08:58):
in my mind, that's the that's really how the attacks
on working people are gone. Where that corporate agenda, it's easy,
easier for them to push that forward if they don't
have the accountability that they should.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
And not only that, when you talked about where you're
from in northwest Ohio and you talked about you know,
Monssi Captor Abroad's broad love her and youah, a really
tough lady and had a really tough bid for reelection.
Like you said, she's got it coming up again. You
know what they say about the House, it's like you
get elected and the first year you spend working, and
the second you spend trying to get re elected so
(09:33):
you can work the third year, I mean to stay
for two more years.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
Kind of crazy, but.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
They break up in many of these states, those key
voting blocks, and that's what they did in Massachusetts, you
know back in the day when you talked about it
in eighteen hundreds, and certainly they've done it. Ohio like
you mentioned Michigan, you know, other states, and we see
what they want to do when you look at the
lines in Texas, it's insane, you know.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I just learned this year with the whole redistricting process, jerrymandering,
that this is called cracking, you know. And if you
think about that, cracking is breaking. They're really breaking apart
people's voice, people's power. And when people think my vote
doesn't count, well, sadly, you know how many times do
(10:21):
we say no, no, one vote matters, well not really.
If you not only is your district broken up, but
where do you go to vote? And how do you
get there? You know, if you work a job and
by the time you get off and get to that
you know place because you know you're you live here,
but your district is now over there.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
You know, It's it's insane.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I literally have had I've lived in southern California for
less than twenty five years, and I've had four different
congress people.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
We'll be back after this.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Don't go away more with our guess no overview.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
Back in the we are back. I'm Leslie Marshall.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
She's Amber Miller, and she's director of the usw's Rapid
Response Department. We're talking with her about jerrymandering and the USW.
By the way, please follow them on Facebook, Instagram, X.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
Their handle is at.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Steel Workers go to the website USW dot org for
a lot of information. They're more than just steal, as
I always say. Check them out on blue Sky where
their handle is at steel Workers dot bsky dot social
and Amber's handle on x's at Amber USW r R.
And like I mentioned, the Rapid Response Department, where she
is director, is a bipartisan or nonpartisan organization. And I
(11:37):
just want to so Amber, so that people understand. I
think there's a belief that unions are all Democrats and
everybody in any unions of Democrat, and that's just just
not true. I mean, we've seen, you know, in some
democratic some unions excuse me, more Democratic voters. But we've
also seen, you know, in this last election cycle and
(11:58):
some unions more of the union members voting for Donald
Trumpho's a Republican. So I want to ask you about
that because I think it's important to highlight and that
people understand that, you know, you're not just yeah, you
guys may endorse, you know, or have endorsed a Democratic candidate,
But it doesn't mean that you don't care about all
(12:18):
of your union workers on both sides of the island.
Realize that there and recognize there are people on both
sides of the isle that need to have their needs addressed,
and jerrymandering can hurt people on both sides.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Right. I'm really glad you brought that up, because that
is definitely a very deliberate thing that we do in
our union to help people understand that we do not
care which side of that which party you're in. What
matters are whether or not you are going to support
and prioritize our core values, so our ability to collectively bargain,
(12:49):
our ability to give our folks retirement security, affordable healthcare,
if there's good domestic economic policy like infrastructure investment, things
like that, things that are gonna that are gonna help
our members. Right. And so when we do endorse folks,
we have a very intricate survey that we put out
(13:11):
to candidates and they have to answer that and they
have to give us the right answers or they do
not give it get our endorsement. And there are moments
that we also endorse. We endorse for both parties. Yeah,
you know, and we try to be very transparent about
that so our members understand that we want folks in
office who are going to have our backs and have
(13:32):
our backs around those core values that our union strives
to bring forward.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Before the break, we talked about voting blocks, we talked
about breaking them up, cracking, and we talked about packing.
And packing is when they lump together, even if they
don't live, like I mentioned, in close proximity, and what
they want to do with that is minimized, not only
the they want to minimize the power. They literally are
(13:59):
minimizing the number of district elections in which people can vote.
I'm wondering in your position, Amber, are you hearing from
both Democrat and Republican union workers where this is happening
in their states, and are they concerned about the cracking
and the packing in this gerrymandering to you know, really
(14:19):
minimize how much their voice is being heard, which sadly
plays into the belief that my vote doesn't count.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Yeah, and that's all part of that corporate agenda, you know.
You know, I think sometimes our members, until it's actually
pointed out to them, don't really understand the underlying sort
of reason these things are happening. But when it is
pointed out to them, when we're able to communicate and
educate them on these things, then their eyes are open
(14:47):
and they do see it. I can one hundred percent
tell you that you know, some of this cracking and
this packing that's been happening does impact our members. We
have folks who live geographically in rural areas and folks
who live in some urban areas, and it is they
are making it more difficult for them to vote. They're
(15:07):
changing times, they're changing when voting availability is even there.
You know you had mentioned you folks work, right, it's
not as easy for people to get out there and
do that, which is why we're grateful to be able
to have the opportunity to do mail in and stuff.
But so I think the answer to that is when
(15:29):
we're able to educate them on what's happening, which is
a big part of my responsibility with the steel workers. Yes,
they do understand what's happening here, and they're very frustrated
with it.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
I would imagine we were talking about Texas earlier this year.
The President demanded, didn't ask that Texas Republicans break with
tradition that ten years redistrict their state that's in between
the censuses. They want to create five more Republican leaning districts.
People look at this as an unprecedented power grab. Are
(16:04):
you in your position concerned for your members that this
is going to become the new normal?
Speaker 3 (16:12):
One hundred percent? One hundred percent, Because as soon as
that happened in Texas, we saw it in multiple other
states very quickly, and so we were we were involved.
We worked with the state afl CIO pushing back on that,
and we're very supportive of the legislators who tried to
(16:32):
hold it up in Texas as best they could because
they recognized that it was going to be a really
big problem, and ultimately, unfortunately we were not able to
be able to push back on that. But I do
think it brought some light to how nefarious this is
a little bit. But yeah, it's it's it's pretty frustrating,
(16:55):
this whole thing. And I do believe maybe right away,
but I do believe that next selection folks are going
to be a little more enlightened on just what this means.
You know, when they look at their pooler candidates, well.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
You know, I know on the topic of immigrant I mean,
when you just look at numbers, okay, and you know,
and you know, I'm a Democrat, but I mean this
is not in support of my party. Just looking at
raw data, and the data is that Republicans have lost
all the gains they've made with his panix right now
at this point in time, which pulls our snapshot of
(17:31):
and it's not only due to immigration, it's it's due
to things like Jerry manderin in places like Texas that
have a very large Latino population. And you know, I
wonder when you just look at Latinos are the fastest
growing you know, not just minority, the fastest growing segment
of our population in the United States. There's going to
(17:53):
be a point where it's I mean, it's going to
be beyond gymnastics for anybody to be able.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
To do this, because what.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Is it by twenty fifty four, whites will not be
the majority. Some people say by twenty fifty.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Right, right. I mean, look, our country has changed. The
way our you know, the workers we represent and our
union has changed along with the way the demographics of
the country has changed. And you know, like lately we've
been frustrated with look, the whole year has been frustrating,
But to be honest, like it's been happening for a
(18:27):
long time, this corporate agenda that's being put forward, and
sometimes people have to feel it to really understand what
it's doing to them. And I think, just like you're
saying that the tide is going to turn here, they
can't keep pushing back on people. There is a thing
that's going to happen. Working people will come back. And
(18:48):
you know, when we say working people, that means everybody.
That means everyone in this country deserves the right to
have a family sustaining job, to have re union representation,
to be able to put food, food on the plate
for their family. And so yeah, I think I think
people are gonna this is only gonna last so long.
(19:09):
They're going to run out of options here, right.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
No, I agree with you one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
We're gonna take a quick break and we're going to
be back and we'll continue our conversation about redistricting, Jerrymangering
and how it hurts you, how it hurts the working class,
the majority of Americans. We'll be back right after this.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Don't go in.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
We are back on Leslie Marshall we are me Leslie
Marshall and director of the usw's Rapid Response Department, Amber
Miller speaking with Amber. But in the break, I hope
you did this, and if not, I hope you do
it in the next break. Go to USW dot org
a lot of information. Maybe you want to know how
to unionize. Maybe you want to know what kind of
jobs are out there for union workers, because you know
(19:50):
somebody has your back when you have a union standing
in the gap between you and those CEOs, those corporations,
those corporations of greed. USW can be followed on Facebook, Instagram,
excuse the handle at steel Workers on blue Sky, at
steel workers dot, bsky dot social and Amber our guest
at Amber us W r R. Amber, thank you for
holding welcome back. We're talking about jerrymandering, and you had
(20:13):
mentioned you had mentioned a couple of places like Missouri,
also Indiana. It's interesting, there's no like, you know, making
secret of it. The Republican governor there, Mike brawn I
reposted this today. Actually he suggested that his state needed
to go along with this scheme, otherwise there would be
consequences if he didn't act quickly.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
Like he's being threatened. He's being strong armed.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
He doesn't have a choice. I'm you know, I normally
would say, you know, the Boston brought to me, would say,
my violin stays in the case. But but there are
consequences for any of these politicians if they don't, you know,
get in line and you know, stand in line. So
it would seem to me, at least the governor of
Indiana is not willingly, you know, not, He begrudgingly you know,
(21:02):
going along with this, and probably because he knows, as
most politicians do, it's gonna be there's gonna be a
coin that flips right, it's it's gonna go the other way.
It's gonna go the other way. At some point it's
gonna come back to bite them. There A lot of
them are doing all this for the president, but then
the president's gonna be gone and they're they're not and
(21:26):
then they're up for reelection and they might be gone
for following in line with somebody who's taken these rights
and demanding these rights be taken away from people. You
said the title is gonna turn, and I agree with you,
not just for demographics, but.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
When you look at states.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Like Texas, they are literally silencing the Hispanic the Latino
voter representation with their redistricting, with their jerry nandering, and
people aren't people aren't gonna go for that. I mean, look,
the African American CAN community wants some Black representatives to
(22:03):
be able to speak for them on behalf of them
who understands their community because they're a part of it, they.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
Come from that community.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
With the jury mandering, these people don't even come from that,
you know, community, whether it be the Black community, the
you know, Latino community, or the lgbt Q community, or women, you.
Speaker 4 (22:23):
Know, whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
And I see that very problematic, especially in Texas. Texas
has a very salamander like map.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Speak to us about that.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
You know, it will come back full circle of you.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
It will come back full circle. It always does. You know. Like,
look what happened, Like I mentioned Michigan earlier, you know,
like that's exactly what happened. They jerrymandered Michigan in a
really rotten way. They did a bunch of crappy stuff
and ticked people off, particularly working people. And then when
there is an opportunity to fix it, it was fixed
and we pulled back some of that bad legislation and
(22:58):
sort of turn the but as you said, turn the
coin on them, and then that will happen. And I agree, Mark,
Mike Braun probably does know this. And you know, it
is a little scary to me that that a governor
has to feel strong armed into doing something. But I'm
I don't I don't know if you had heard or not,
but the entire Indiana delegation was invited to the White
(23:18):
House to basically be told this is what's happening, you know,
And and so that to me is a little scary.
You know, it's a little scary.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Definitely unorthodox. One of the things I love about unions
and union workers is and and it's you know the uh,
the Latin uh.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
You know what is it? The Latin root? Union unity? Right?
Union unity?
Speaker 2 (23:47):
And when working people unite, Wow, it's powerful. When you
work together for a common goal, it is powerful. You
see workers with the help of unions like the US
do you fighting huge corporations pro corporate forces. And these
corporations want to do what the art of war, divide
(24:08):
and conquer, right to divide, to disenfranchise them. Now in
Missouri where you were talked about, you know what they're
trying to do with jerrymandering workers show that they can
fight back. They have a Republican led legislature and you know,
not just jerrymandering, but they keep trying to push anti
worker initiatives. But the union members have pushed back, They've organized,
(24:32):
and they've been able to successfully pass ballot initiatives to
keep these legislators in check. Are you optimistic in the
future that workers, union and otherwise will group together as
voters and fight back successfully against the jury mandering?
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Yeah, I am, I am. We're actually actively working in Missouri.
And when a lot of those really nasty policies were
coming through, we engaged our members around and one of
them was right to work. There's been all kinds of them,
and you know, really the point here is that in
these states that have these ballot initiatives, it is a
(25:13):
check and balance for these legislators to be like, Okay,
made a bad decision. The citizens of the state are saying, no,
that's not what we want. And that's really what happened
in Missouri. About seven years ago, the legislature pushed through
right to work. They went to a ballot measure, they
overwhelmingly voted in the state to turn it over because
the citizens decided that's not what they wanted to do.
(25:36):
But you know, those in Missouri now see this as
an opportunity if they jerrymander heavily to be able to
take that away. And so it's frustrating. You know, like
in Missouri, they elected to institute minimum wage and paid
sickly laws and basically, instead of respecting their constituents, they
(25:57):
voted to overturn them, you know. And so again it's
this corporate driven agenda that's happening, and they're they're literally
trying to find ways to protect that and that means
taking voices away, and jerry mandering is a tool to
do that. So we're pushing back pretty heavy in Missouri
as well. But you can see how this playbook in
(26:17):
the States is being being worked, you know, around and
so again it's going to come full circle. It's going
to come full circle. But till now, we have to
fight back and we have to let our members know
what's going on.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
I think another thing, and you know, look, I'm definitely
a pessimist. I'm not a Pollyanna optimist or anything, but
I do think one good thing about this is something
that's frustrated me, whether it's a Democrat or Republican, when
a legislator is not doing what's in the best interest
of their constituents. So we're seeing a lot in the
(26:51):
Republican Party doing what's in the best interest of Trump,
Donald Trump the president, not their constituents in certain states, right,
And I mean, like, you know, allowing their party to
rip healthcare away. I mean, come on, that's not going
to benefit anybody. I don't care if you read or blue,
especially if you have a large amount of your constituency
(27:11):
on the Affordable Care Act, you know, need you know that,
you know, or some of these immigration tactics by ice,
if you have a very large Latin know, you know population.
One of the things that's always frustrated me is how
once somebody's elected, it's much easier to stay in office
because incumbents really do have the upper hand because it's
(27:32):
name recognition. You already got the money, you already know
how to do it. The train's already left the station, right.
But we are seeing people more now, you know, you
look at various races, it's happening more, and I think
it's growing, and I think there's a momentum building that
people are like, you know what, I'm mad as hell.
I'm not going to take it any more. I'm sick
of this because people have to really when people say
(27:54):
I don't want to get into a conversation about term limits,
When people say to me, do you support term limits,
I'm like, we have term limits. We can vote these
people out, you know, every two years, and we don't.
And on both sides of the aisle, you know, I've
talked to people in red states that will complain, complain, complain,
and policies directly from people they voted for have hurt them. Right, Farmers,
(28:15):
Farmers right now is a perfect example of that.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Right.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
So, when they were jerry mandering, maker virtually impossible for
citizens to set laws through ballot referendums more in a sense,
to vote them out. I think they're putting the nails
in their own coffin because I think more people are
going to come out and go, you know what, enough
of this incumbency bs. You know, yeah, we got to
(28:39):
look because seriously, you got to look at what somebody's
done in their two years. And if they haven't done
what you elected them to do, you can't re elect
them or you can't stay home, because we do see
that less than half of the people that can vote,
do you know Democrats even worse Republicans when it comes
to showing up.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Yeah, yeah, it's and look, you know, we you make
a good point again, It's like it's almost like people
have to get hit with it and feel it. And
I feel like right now, in particular, is a time
in the next couple of years, with with what Congress
has done with the budget, people are going to feel this,
(29:18):
you know, And and these are these are places where
these legislators are are helping to set policy or voting
for policy that is directly going to impact their constituents.
And you know, it's it will catch up to them.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
Like we're going to take a quick break.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Members are to got you off, We're going to take
a quick break.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
Will be right back by the way.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
To Amber's point, the big beautiful Bill is pulling so
badly that Donald.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
Trump has said we go to rename it. We're going
to take a break.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
We'll be back with Amber Miller, director of the usw's
Rapid Response Department. I think they're kind of like like
the Democrats would.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
Defund the police, not such a good slogan. We'll be back,
don't go away.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
Yeah, we are back.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
I am Listlie Marshall, how you doing? Welcome and welcome
back only true democracy in talk. Director of the usw's
Rapid Response Program, Amber Miller is here joining us today.
You want to know more about that program, we'll check
out her account on X her Twitter x I still
Say Twitter account at Amber USWRR. Also check out the
(30:23):
USW on Facebook, on Instagram as well as X follow
them there at steel Workers and the website USW dot
org on Blue Sky at steel Workers dot b Sky
dot Social. We're talking about gerrymandering and how it's hurting you,
the middle class, the working class, and that's the majority
of the voters in our nation, whether you're in a
red state or blue state, whether you're a Democrat or Republican. Hey,
(30:45):
thanks for holding and welcome back. You had mentioned Michigan
earlier in the hour. You also mentioned correctly that it
was once ranked as one of the most gerrymandered states
in the United States. Republican legislators now only met. They
met in secret. To when people meet in secret instead
of like you, No, it's not a good idea.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
They're even hiding it for their own people.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Right, Republican legislators met in secret to draw mapps intended
to keep them in power and advance special interest at
the expense of their constituents, again caring more about personal
gain than their and their party than their people. And
this is how they crammed through their so called right
(31:31):
to work legislation during a lame duck session in twenty twelve,
cowing to corporate interest. But then six years later, right,
something happened, and it's not something changed. To your point,
it comes back, and it comes back to bite you.
It comes back to haunt you, and it may take
six years, but it does come back. Tell us what
(31:53):
happened when Active is United in twenty eighteen with that
redistricting in those Republicans Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Yeah, you know, like like you said, and when that
happened in this this these really all this nasty policy
started coming through and people were like, wait a minute,
this is not what I voted for, you know, and
things are starting to hit them. They came together and
folks said, like, there has to be a way that
we can responsibly draw these legislative and congressional districts and
(32:24):
really left that in the hands of union members, ordinary
voters who like made common sense decisions about where people
needed representation. And because of that, you know, we got
better districts. The election turned out very, very different the
next time around, and we were able to you know,
(32:45):
repeal things like right to work in Michigan because of that,
because finally the voices of the constituents were being heard,
because they were being represented fairly, they weren't being drowned
out by corporate interests, you know. And back and you know,
back when the Michigan was first jerrymannered like that in
the middle of the night, it was a time where
(33:07):
you had places like or you had organizations like ALEC
and the Heritage Foundation, and they're pushing you know, all
these bad policies through and basically rubber stamp hating them
to states to do this. And we saw a whole
grouping of you know, states where these anti anti worker
policies came through and so again part of that corporate agenda.
(33:28):
But it comes full circle. People's bellies get full when
they realize that they're being hurt. And I think, you know,
what's happening right now is unfortunate, but it will come
back it will come back to haunt them the same
as it did in Michigan.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
You know, when you have people red and blue, left
and right, Democrat and Republican, then you have representation of
all people. I should say all, because there's certainly people
that are independents, but independence ty typically will you know,
vote one way or the other. They don't have a choice, right,
you know, especially when there's only know two people really
(34:02):
that they know are going to win. I'm sorry, Joe Stein,
but they you know, when districting is fair and balanced,
elective representatives have no choice but to listen to their
constituents because people forget if if you're I mean, this
is one thing that really bothers me, and and and
Joe Biden did say it. You know that doesn't bother me.
(34:23):
What's he said? I am the president for all of you,
you know, and even or when people say, and I
love it, even if you didn't vote for me, I'm
going to fight for you, because that's the reality. And
you know, when I'm a Democrat, when you know, President
Trump calls me evil and wants me to be personally
responsible for every single death that's occurred, even though it's
(34:44):
not proven. At some like you know, left leaning individual.
I don't feel that he is my president in representing me.
So people need to know, even if they're a Democrat,
that the Republican representative can hear them and represent them
and and vice versa.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Yes, yes, and there are there are places where where
some of these legislators do understand that. You know, yes,
and it's unfortunate.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
Kentucky, very red state. Yes he's a Democrat, he's there.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
And he's fantastic, and they keep electing him, right, you know,
like it's it's it's frustrating for people. It's frustrating for people.
It's been frustrating in labor to see what's what's been happening.
But I think when we can help our members understand
that we need folks in there that have their best
(35:38):
interests in mind, and we talk about these things because look,
we all know you have this wonderful show where you're
able to put this stuff out in ways that mainstream
media is not doing. You know, they're not hearing this
on on whatever news channel that they watch, so they
need to hear it from us. They need to hear
it from us. And the way elections are set up
(36:01):
right now, Ever since citizens united, and there's so much
money in it. You know, we're really seeing a moment where,
you know, we've been telling our members that people we
bargain across the table from are running the country. There
are I believe thirteen billionaires in the administrate, in the
cabinet right now. Those people do not have the same
(36:22):
experience our members do. They do not think about the
things that our members do, and so we have to
pull that back and making sure that there are you know,
fair districts being drawn, and that there are legislators in
there who feel accountable to their voice their voters instead
of the other way around, is the only way to
fix that.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
When you talk about relatability or lack thereof, you know,
Ben Shapiro, very strong Republican, very pro Israel.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
I know Ben.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
I've sat next to Ben, you know, in person, you know,
on television and I had to laugh. And I even
posted when he said, you know, you should raise the
retirement age to seventy and I said, as somebody who
sits on her butt on radio and television, I do
what he does. And you know he may have you know,
bigger audience because no offense, but conservatives seemed to back
(37:15):
people more than you know, the liberals who broadcast He
has no idea what it's like to be a hard
physical laborer. And you can't ask somebody who has really
they got up at the crack of dawn and they're
physically working. Because I come from, you know, blue collar workers.
My both my grandfather's, my mother's father and my father's
(37:36):
father were steel workers, I mean not steelroks.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
Excuse me, sheet.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Metal workers, see yes, sheet metal workers and and and
part of a union. And my my mother's father was
a teamster. And I I mean there was no way
there were the physically you know, couldn't do it. And
there were so many things that happened back in the
day until they got union protection, like asbestos. My grandfather
(38:02):
had his lungs and you know, things like that. So
you know, I just I can't stand when these you know,
very rich, usually white, white collar people who've never really
done a day of hard labor in their life, you know,
talk about things they don't know, they don't they don't understand,
and they don't understand working two or three jobs, you know,
(38:25):
or a husband and wife both working two or three
jobs just to keep food on the table, and to
keep the lights on and pay for the mortgage or
the rent.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
Right or swing shift, or you know, like struggling to
see if you can pay the deductible on your your
insurance pody. There's just so many things that aren't even
on the radar for them that you know, people struggle
with every day. And we're lucky to if you're in
a union, because you tend to have better benefits and
(38:53):
better wages and things like that, but it's still a struggle.
There's nobody you know, and the people I know, and
the people have thech were working for it. There's nobody
getting rich out here right They're just trying to make
it through. They're trying to do the best they can,
put their kids through college if they can, or a
trade school or whatever it may be. Eat But no,
the people making the decisions right now do not have
(39:14):
that same experience, and so we need to make sure
we're putting people in there who do no.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Absolutely, I can't make this up. My house was damaged
in the Eating Canyon fire. I'm blessed to have been
able to move back into my house, but we still
have stuff come up all the time, and I think
the insurance company thinks I'm making this up. So I
had all this black water just furting up like from
a pipe in the ground, and I call my plumber
and he came out, and I said, to insurance, you know,
(39:41):
will you cover it? I don't know, So I have
him write a report. And he said to me, he said,
you know, I know you work in the media. And
he said, can I ask you something. I said yeah,
and he goes, The economy's bad right now, isn't it.
And I said, yes, yes it is. And he goes,
cause I'm not making as much money.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
I don't have as much many people calling, I don't
have as much work. Now that's just one person, but
he said everybody, not just plumbers. Everybody he's talking to
feels the same way. We have literally thirty seconds.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
Last word to you, Amber listen, I again want to
just thank you for the time today and allowing me
to talk about this subject, because again, you know, folks
aren't hearing really what this is all about. They're hearing
a lot of the partisan fighting that's going on, and
that's a distraction. And so I feel like when we
(40:32):
have very real conversations with people about why this is happening,
why this is part of a bigger agenda, and what
we need to do to push back to make sure
that we not just maintain what we have but hopefully
make gains for working people. So just again, keep keep
everybody's eyes open on this stuff, keep doing what you're doing,
and keep speaking the truth, because that's how we're gonna
(40:53):
that's how we're going to get get workers back on
the forefront in this country instead of taking a back
seat to rich people.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Absolutely well, said Amber Miller, is director of the usw's
Rapid Response Department. Please follow her on x at Amber USWRR.
Also follow the USW on X and Facebook and Instagram
as well their handle at steel Workers. Visit their website
USW dot orgon also follow them on blue sky if
you're there, They're handled there is at steelworkers dot bsky
(41:23):
dot social. I'm Leslie Marshall. Shout out to Marky Markamaldi,
executive producer.
Speaker 4 (41:27):
Thank you for being with.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
Us today, and have a wonderful and a safe weekend,
and I hope a warm weekend.
Speaker 4 (41:32):
I think it's cold everywhere right now in the US.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
Have a good one.
The Leslie Marshall Show, the only true Democracy and Talk
radio of four and by you the people, live nationwide
and streaming live at Leslie Marshallshow dot Com.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Here to set your free and woman. You got your women, well,
you got women because joining us today. Hi, I'm Leslie
Marshall and welcome to the only true Democracy and Talk.
However you get the program, whether you do it live
or tape delayed, you know with podcasts and streaming, we
really appreciate appreciate you listening and watching, and there's a
lot to talk about today. Joining us is Zambramiller. Amber
(01:00):
is director of the usw's Rapid Response Department. Now it
is a roughly thirty year tradition of member driven, issue based,
nonpartisan legislative activism. She's been a proud second generation steel
worker since nineteen ninety seven, where she began her career
at Chase Brass and Copper in Northwest Ohio. She hasn't
(01:22):
been on the show in almost two years. We loved
having her then, glad to have her back today, way
past time to do so and have her back. Good
to have her with us and be sure for the USW.
Follow them on Facebook, on Instagram on x they're handled
there as at steel Workers. Visit their website plethor of
information there USW dot org and also check them out
(01:42):
on Blue Sky. They're handled there at Steelworkers dot bsky
dot social and Amber on X is at amber uswirr
Amber or would you prefer to have me be formal
with you? Would call you Ms Miller? What do you prefer?
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Amber is just fine, I'm with you.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Thank you for joining us, A very good good to
have you with us. You know, we're hearing a lot
from both sides of the aisle, and you work in
a non you know, partisan you know division within the
US w about jerry mandering.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
We hear the you know, president makes a.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Phone call to the governor in Texas he wants it
done here in my state of California. My governor goes, okay,
well you take five. You know, you take five, We're
going to take your five, and we have up to nine.
And now it becomes a domino effect. But one of
the effects people don't look at is how that threatens
working families. Jerry mandering, right, we know that every decade
(02:37):
politicians re draw the district lines. That's called redistricting. And
the way it used to be done right every ten years.
People consider that to be a fair way of doning
doing it because it reflects the people, It reflects that population.
And then everybody's doing it right, left and right, Democrat
and Republican, h you know, red state, blue state, north south, whatever.
(03:00):
And the tradition is that follows the census, which you
know makes sense to a lot of people. But politicians
are certainly in have in the past few election cycles,
twisting it to protect their own power. And I guess
we were going to say protect even it's an outright
power grab. So let's talk about this because this avenue
(03:24):
where politicians actually are picking their voters instead of voters
are picking their politicians, can do great harm to communities,
great harm to the working class, great harm to their constituencies,
the majority of their constituencies in many of these states.
Talk to us about that.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Yeah, and you said it perfectly, Leslie. It's really the
process of politicians picking their voters. And you know, when
that happens, you cannot get like a clear sense of
who it is that you're representing, you know, and you
know it's not a new thing. It's dates all the
way back to the eighteen hundreds, and I actually, this
is something I learned just this year that it's actually
(04:05):
named after jerrymandering. As a Massachusetts governor, his name was
Elbridge Jerry and he tried to draw this crazy, ridiculous
district in the city of Boston actually, and it resembled
a salamander. So they coined the term jerrymandering, which I
thought was kind of odd.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
You know, you know what I did not.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
I'm from Boston, right born, a born, bred, raised in Massachusetts,
and I love history and I did pay attention to school,
mostly especially history.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
I never knew that until you just said it right now.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
That's fascinating, yeah, you know. And then the Supreme Court
making it a little worse than twenty nineteen because they
ruled that courts can't block partisan jerrymanders, and so there
really isn't a lot of ways to fight back other
than you know, the citizens standing up and doing that.
And that's sort of what's happening in some of the states,
Missouri being one of them right now. But like you said,
(04:58):
that process it really hurt, it's everybody. It allows for
very extremist policies to happen in a lot less accountability
because you know, these legislators can make these these decisions
not be accountable to their voters, and really there's no
way to get them out of office because they have
carved out that section of voters who they know is
(05:19):
are always going to support them. You know, I've seen
it over the years. Ohio, the where I grew up
in Northwest Ohio, Mercy capped her when the last time
they redistricted her. It is insane. I mean it's like
they actually drew her around Toledo and then all the
way over to Northwest Ohio in a very very rural area.
(05:42):
I think with the hopes of getting her out. Surprisingly enough,
she ended up winning that election, which is good, but
you know she's she's got to do it again and
it's tough. But it really impacts, you know, communities of
color very differently. It suppresses the vote and really denies
voices within the communities and how these folks, how these
(06:06):
folks do their their legislating.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
So people watching and listening understand because some people would think, well, California,
they're attacking Republicans, and Texas they're attacking Democrats or trying
to eliminate people from where if it's a red state
they want to silence blue voices, and blue state they
want to silence red voices. People would say, how does
it specifically silence the working people? You know, obviously if
(06:32):
you deny somebody their vote. You know, people understand when
you look at states, they usually do demographics, you know,
with regard to race, you know, primarily so you see
how it affects communities of color, specifically the black community,
the Latino community in different states. But it doesn't always
and there are those numbers out there, doesn't always show
(06:54):
how it's affecting people regardless of their race, how it's
affecting the working class. So can can you explain that
for folks that may look at a map and not
see that because it's broken down along lines of color,
or they just see it as red, blue, left, right.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Yeah, so I'll give you a good example. I feel
like Michigan is a good example. They did some gerrymandering
well over a decade ago, well over a decade ago,
and then back in twenty twelve that the folks that
were in power are very anti labor, and of course
they were able to push right to work through in
(07:30):
the state of Michigan, and then a few years ago
they redrew the lines I think in the right way
where they had a like a an independent group of
folks of citizens actually look at the lines to redrawas
and make sure they were fair and we overturn right
to work. So a lot of times these folks who
(07:52):
are doing this powergraph, they have an agenda. It's generally
a corporate agenda in these cases that are happening right now.
I do want to recognize, like you pointed out, this
happens with both parties, but you know that is one
of the ways they are able to push their agenda
through the states and honestly stack the federal government as well,
(08:13):
you know, I mean, if you're looking at Texas, they
just obviously somebody saw Texas as a risk, you know,
in terms of the makeup of the legislators and saw
the need to take them out, and that's what happened.
So anytime that happens and our voices aren't aren't being
heard properly, that directly impacts working people, and especially in
(08:37):
the ways that our union in particular, we have a
very heavy focus on what we call our core values,
and so that's like collective bargaining and health care, making
sure health care is affordable, retirement security, really all the
reasons that people want to be in a union, and
those are very opposite of a corporate agenda. So you know,
(08:58):
in my mind, that's the that's really how the attacks
on working people are gone. Where that corporate agenda, it's easy,
easier for them to push that forward if they don't
have the accountability that they should.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
And not only that, when you talked about where you're
from in northwest Ohio and you talked about you know,
Monssi Captor Abroad's broad love her and youah, a really
tough lady and had a really tough bid for reelection.
Like you said, she's got it coming up again. You
know what they say about the House, it's like you
get elected and the first year you spend working, and
the second you spend trying to get re elected so
(09:33):
you can work the third year, I mean to stay
for two more years.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
Kind of crazy, but.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
They break up in many of these states, those key
voting blocks, and that's what they did in Massachusetts, you
know back in the day when you talked about it
in eighteen hundreds, and certainly they've done it. Ohio like
you mentioned Michigan, you know, other states, and we see
what they want to do when you look at the
lines in Texas, it's insane, you know.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I just learned this year with the whole redistricting process, jerrymandering,
that this is called cracking, you know. And if you
think about that, cracking is breaking. They're really breaking apart
people's voice, people's power. And when people think my vote
doesn't count, well, sadly, you know how many times do
(10:21):
we say no, no, one vote matters, well not really.
If you not only is your district broken up, but
where do you go to vote? And how do you
get there? You know, if you work a job and
by the time you get off and get to that
you know place because you know you're you live here,
but your district is now over there.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
You know, It's it's insane.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I literally have had I've lived in southern California for
less than twenty five years, and I've had four different
congress people.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
We'll be back after this.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Don't go away more with our guess no overview.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
Back in the we are back. I'm Leslie Marshall.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
She's Amber Miller, and she's director of the usw's Rapid
Response Department. We're talking with her about jerrymandering and the USW.
By the way, please follow them on Facebook, Instagram, X.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
Their handle is at.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Steel Workers go to the website USW dot org for
a lot of information. They're more than just steal, as
I always say. Check them out on blue Sky where
their handle is at steel Workers dot bsky dot social
and Amber's handle on x's at Amber USW r R.
And like I mentioned, the Rapid Response Department, where she
is director, is a bipartisan or nonpartisan organization. And I
(11:37):
just want to so Amber, so that people understand. I
think there's a belief that unions are all Democrats and
everybody in any unions of Democrat, and that's just just
not true. I mean, we've seen, you know, in some
democratic some unions excuse me, more Democratic voters. But we've
also seen, you know, in this last election cycle and
(11:58):
some unions more of the union members voting for Donald
Trumpho's a Republican. So I want to ask you about
that because I think it's important to highlight and that
people understand that, you know, you're not just yeah, you
guys may endorse, you know, or have endorsed a Democratic candidate,
But it doesn't mean that you don't care about all
(12:18):
of your union workers on both sides of the island.
Realize that there and recognize there are people on both
sides of the isle that need to have their needs addressed,
and jerrymandering can hurt people on both sides.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Right. I'm really glad you brought that up, because that
is definitely a very deliberate thing that we do in
our union to help people understand that we do not
care which side of that which party you're in. What
matters are whether or not you are going to support
and prioritize our core values, so our ability to collectively bargain,
(12:49):
our ability to give our folks retirement security, affordable healthcare,
if there's good domestic economic policy like infrastructure investment, things
like that, things that are gonna that are gonna help
our members. Right. And so when we do endorse folks,
we have a very intricate survey that we put out
(13:11):
to candidates and they have to answer that and they
have to give us the right answers or they do
not give it get our endorsement. And there are moments
that we also endorse. We endorse for both parties. Yeah,
you know, and we try to be very transparent about
that so our members understand that we want folks in
office who are going to have our backs and have
(13:32):
our backs around those core values that our union strives
to bring forward.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Before the break, we talked about voting blocks, we talked
about breaking them up, cracking, and we talked about packing.
And packing is when they lump together, even if they
don't live, like I mentioned, in close proximity, and what
they want to do with that is minimized, not only
the they want to minimize the power. They literally are
(13:59):
minimizing the number of district elections in which people can vote.
I'm wondering in your position, Amber, are you hearing from
both Democrat and Republican union workers where this is happening
in their states, and are they concerned about the cracking
and the packing in this gerrymandering to you know, really
(14:19):
minimize how much their voice is being heard, which sadly
plays into the belief that my vote doesn't count.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Yeah, and that's all part of that corporate agenda, you know.
You know, I think sometimes our members, until it's actually
pointed out to them, don't really understand the underlying sort
of reason these things are happening. But when it is
pointed out to them, when we're able to communicate and
educate them on these things, then their eyes are open
(14:47):
and they do see it. I can one hundred percent
tell you that you know, some of this cracking and
this packing that's been happening does impact our members. We
have folks who live geographically in rural areas and folks
who live in some urban areas, and it is they
are making it more difficult for them to vote. They're
(15:07):
changing times, they're changing when voting availability is even there.
You know you had mentioned you folks work, right, it's
not as easy for people to get out there and
do that, which is why we're grateful to be able
to have the opportunity to do mail in and stuff.
But so I think the answer to that is when
(15:29):
we're able to educate them on what's happening, which is
a big part of my responsibility with the steel workers. Yes,
they do understand what's happening here, and they're very frustrated
with it.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
I would imagine we were talking about Texas earlier this year.
The President demanded, didn't ask that Texas Republicans break with
tradition that ten years redistrict their state that's in between
the censuses. They want to create five more Republican leaning districts.
People look at this as an unprecedented power grab. Are
(16:04):
you in your position concerned for your members that this
is going to become the new normal?
Speaker 3 (16:12):
One hundred percent? One hundred percent, Because as soon as
that happened in Texas, we saw it in multiple other
states very quickly, and so we were we were involved.
We worked with the state afl CIO pushing back on that,
and we're very supportive of the legislators who tried to
(16:32):
hold it up in Texas as best they could because
they recognized that it was going to be a really
big problem, and ultimately, unfortunately we were not able to
be able to push back on that. But I do
think it brought some light to how nefarious this is
a little bit. But yeah, it's it's it's pretty frustrating,
(16:55):
this whole thing. And I do believe maybe right away,
but I do believe that next selection folks are going
to be a little more enlightened on just what this means.
You know, when they look at their pooler candidates, well.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
You know, I know on the topic of immigrant I mean,
when you just look at numbers, okay, and you know,
and you know, I'm a Democrat, but I mean this
is not in support of my party. Just looking at
raw data, and the data is that Republicans have lost
all the gains they've made with his panix right now
at this point in time, which pulls our snapshot of
(17:31):
and it's not only due to immigration, it's it's due
to things like Jerry manderin in places like Texas that
have a very large Latino population. And you know, I
wonder when you just look at Latinos are the fastest
growing you know, not just minority, the fastest growing segment
of our population in the United States. There's going to
(17:53):
be a point where it's I mean, it's going to
be beyond gymnastics for anybody to be able.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
To do this, because what.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Is it by twenty fifty four, whites will not be
the majority. Some people say by twenty fifty.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Right, right. I mean, look, our country has changed. The
way our you know, the workers we represent and our
union has changed along with the way the demographics of
the country has changed. And you know, like lately we've
been frustrated with look, the whole year has been frustrating,
But to be honest, like it's been happening for a
(18:27):
long time, this corporate agenda that's being put forward, and
sometimes people have to feel it to really understand what
it's doing to them. And I think, just like you're
saying that the tide is going to turn here, they
can't keep pushing back on people. There is a thing
that's going to happen. Working people will come back. And
(18:48):
you know, when we say working people, that means everybody.
That means everyone in this country deserves the right to
have a family sustaining job, to have re union representation,
to be able to put food, food on the plate
for their family. And so yeah, I think I think
people are gonna this is only gonna last so long.
(19:09):
They're going to run out of options here, right.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
No, I agree with you one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
We're gonna take a quick break and we're going to
be back and we'll continue our conversation about redistricting, Jerrymangering
and how it hurts you, how it hurts the working class,
the majority of Americans. We'll be back right after this.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Don't go in.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
We are back on Leslie Marshall we are me Leslie
Marshall and director of the usw's Rapid Response Department, Amber
Miller speaking with Amber. But in the break, I hope
you did this, and if not, I hope you do
it in the next break. Go to USW dot org
a lot of information. Maybe you want to know how
to unionize. Maybe you want to know what kind of
jobs are out there for union workers, because you know
(19:50):
somebody has your back when you have a union standing
in the gap between you and those CEOs, those corporations,
those corporations of greed. USW can be followed on Facebook, Instagram,
excuse the handle at steel Workers on blue Sky, at
steel workers dot, bsky dot social and Amber our guest
at Amber us W r R. Amber, thank you for
holding welcome back. We're talking about jerrymandering, and you had
(20:13):
mentioned you had mentioned a couple of places like Missouri,
also Indiana. It's interesting, there's no like, you know, making
secret of it. The Republican governor there, Mike brawn I
reposted this today. Actually he suggested that his state needed
to go along with this scheme, otherwise there would be
consequences if he didn't act quickly.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
Like he's being threatened. He's being strong armed.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
He doesn't have a choice. I'm you know, I normally
would say, you know, the Boston brought to me, would say,
my violin stays in the case. But but there are
consequences for any of these politicians if they don't, you know,
get in line and you know, stand in line. So
it would seem to me, at least the governor of
Indiana is not willingly, you know, not, He begrudgingly you know,
(21:02):
going along with this, and probably because he knows, as
most politicians do, it's gonna be there's gonna be a
coin that flips right, it's it's gonna go the other way.
It's gonna go the other way. At some point it's
gonna come back to bite them. There A lot of
them are doing all this for the president, but then
the president's gonna be gone and they're they're not and
(21:26):
then they're up for reelection and they might be gone
for following in line with somebody who's taken these rights
and demanding these rights be taken away from people. You
said the title is gonna turn, and I agree with you,
not just for demographics, but.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
When you look at states.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Like Texas, they are literally silencing the Hispanic the Latino
voter representation with their redistricting, with their jerry nandering, and
people aren't people aren't gonna go for that. I mean, look,
the African American CAN community wants some Black representatives to
(22:03):
be able to speak for them on behalf of them
who understands their community because they're a part of it, they.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
Come from that community.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
With the jury mandering, these people don't even come from that,
you know, community, whether it be the Black community, the
you know, Latino community, or the lgbt Q community, or women, you.
Speaker 4 (22:23):
Know, whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
And I see that very problematic, especially in Texas. Texas
has a very salamander like map.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Speak to us about that.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
You know, it will come back full circle of you.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
It will come back full circle. It always does. You know. Like,
look what happened, Like I mentioned Michigan earlier, you know,
like that's exactly what happened. They jerrymandered Michigan in a
really rotten way. They did a bunch of crappy stuff
and ticked people off, particularly working people. And then when
there is an opportunity to fix it, it was fixed
and we pulled back some of that bad legislation and
(22:58):
sort of turn the but as you said, turn the
coin on them, and then that will happen. And I agree, Mark,
Mike Braun probably does know this. And you know, it
is a little scary to me that that a governor
has to feel strong armed into doing something. But I'm
I don't I don't know if you had heard or not,
but the entire Indiana delegation was invited to the White
(23:18):
House to basically be told this is what's happening, you know,
And and so that to me is a little scary.
You know, it's a little scary.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Definitely unorthodox. One of the things I love about unions
and union workers is and and it's you know the uh,
the Latin uh.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
You know what is it? The Latin root? Union unity? Right?
Union unity?
Speaker 2 (23:47):
And when working people unite, Wow, it's powerful. When you
work together for a common goal, it is powerful. You
see workers with the help of unions like the US
do you fighting huge corporations pro corporate forces. And these
corporations want to do what the art of war, divide
(24:08):
and conquer, right to divide, to disenfranchise them. Now in
Missouri where you were talked about, you know what they're
trying to do with jerrymandering workers show that they can
fight back. They have a Republican led legislature and you know,
not just jerrymandering, but they keep trying to push anti
worker initiatives. But the union members have pushed back, They've organized,
(24:32):
and they've been able to successfully pass ballot initiatives to
keep these legislators in check. Are you optimistic in the
future that workers, union and otherwise will group together as
voters and fight back successfully against the jury mandering?
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Yeah, I am, I am. We're actually actively working in Missouri.
And when a lot of those really nasty policies were
coming through, we engaged our members around and one of
them was right to work. There's been all kinds of them,
and you know, really the point here is that in
these states that have these ballot initiatives, it is a
(25:13):
check and balance for these legislators to be like, Okay,
made a bad decision. The citizens of the state are saying, no,
that's not what we want. And that's really what happened
in Missouri. About seven years ago, the legislature pushed through
right to work. They went to a ballot measure, they
overwhelmingly voted in the state to turn it over because
the citizens decided that's not what they wanted to do.
(25:36):
But you know, those in Missouri now see this as
an opportunity if they jerrymander heavily to be able to
take that away. And so it's frustrating. You know, like
in Missouri, they elected to institute minimum wage and paid
sickly laws and basically, instead of respecting their constituents, they
(25:57):
voted to overturn them, you know. And so again it's
this corporate driven agenda that's happening, and they're they're literally
trying to find ways to protect that and that means
taking voices away, and jerry mandering is a tool to
do that. So we're pushing back pretty heavy in Missouri
as well. But you can see how this playbook in
(26:17):
the States is being being worked, you know, around and
so again it's going to come full circle. It's going
to come full circle. But till now, we have to
fight back and we have to let our members know
what's going on.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
I think another thing, and you know, look, I'm definitely
a pessimist. I'm not a Pollyanna optimist or anything, but
I do think one good thing about this is something
that's frustrated me, whether it's a Democrat or Republican, when
a legislator is not doing what's in the best interest
of their constituents. So we're seeing a lot in the
(26:51):
Republican Party doing what's in the best interest of Trump,
Donald Trump the president, not their constituents in certain states, right,
And I mean, like, you know, allowing their party to
rip healthcare away. I mean, come on, that's not going
to benefit anybody. I don't care if you read or blue,
especially if you have a large amount of your constituency
(27:11):
on the Affordable Care Act, you know, need you know that,
you know, or some of these immigration tactics by ice,
if you have a very large Latin know, you know population.
One of the things that's always frustrated me is how
once somebody's elected, it's much easier to stay in office
because incumbents really do have the upper hand because it's
(27:32):
name recognition. You already got the money, you already know
how to do it. The train's already left the station, right.
But we are seeing people more now, you know, you
look at various races, it's happening more, and I think
it's growing, and I think there's a momentum building that
people are like, you know what, I'm mad as hell.
I'm not going to take it any more. I'm sick
of this because people have to really when people say
(27:54):
I don't want to get into a conversation about term limits,
When people say to me, do you support term limits,
I'm like, we have term limits. We can vote these
people out, you know, every two years, and we don't.
And on both sides of the aisle, you know, I've
talked to people in red states that will complain, complain, complain,
and policies directly from people they voted for have hurt them. Right, Farmers,
(28:15):
Farmers right now is a perfect example of that.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Right.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
So, when they were jerry mandering, maker virtually impossible for
citizens to set laws through ballot referendums more in a sense,
to vote them out. I think they're putting the nails
in their own coffin because I think more people are
going to come out and go, you know what, enough
of this incumbency bs. You know, yeah, we got to
(28:39):
look because seriously, you got to look at what somebody's
done in their two years. And if they haven't done
what you elected them to do, you can't re elect
them or you can't stay home, because we do see
that less than half of the people that can vote,
do you know Democrats even worse Republicans when it comes
to showing up.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Yeah, yeah, it's and look, you know, we you make
a good point again, It's like it's almost like people
have to get hit with it and feel it. And
I feel like right now, in particular, is a time
in the next couple of years, with with what Congress
has done with the budget, people are going to feel this,
(29:18):
you know, And and these are these are places where
these legislators are are helping to set policy or voting
for policy that is directly going to impact their constituents.
And you know, it's it will catch up to them.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
Like we're going to take a quick break.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Members are to got you off, We're going to take
a quick break.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
Will be right back by the way.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
To Amber's point, the big beautiful Bill is pulling so
badly that Donald.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
Trump has said we go to rename it. We're going
to take a break.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
We'll be back with Amber Miller, director of the usw's
Rapid Response Department. I think they're kind of like like
the Democrats would.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
Defund the police, not such a good slogan. We'll be back,
don't go away.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
Yeah, we are back.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
I am Listlie Marshall, how you doing? Welcome and welcome
back only true democracy in talk. Director of the usw's
Rapid Response Program, Amber Miller is here joining us today.
You want to know more about that program, we'll check
out her account on X her Twitter x I still
Say Twitter account at Amber USWRR. Also check out the
(30:23):
USW on Facebook, on Instagram as well as X follow
them there at steel Workers and the website USW dot
org on Blue Sky at steel Workers dot b Sky
dot Social. We're talking about gerrymandering and how it's hurting you,
the middle class, the working class, and that's the majority
of the voters in our nation, whether you're in a
red state or blue state, whether you're a Democrat or Republican. Hey,
(30:45):
thanks for holding and welcome back. You had mentioned Michigan
earlier in the hour. You also mentioned correctly that it
was once ranked as one of the most gerrymandered states
in the United States. Republican legislators now only met. They
met in secret. To when people meet in secret instead
of like you, No, it's not a good idea.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
They're even hiding it for their own people.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Right, Republican legislators met in secret to draw mapps intended
to keep them in power and advance special interest at
the expense of their constituents, again caring more about personal
gain than their and their party than their people. And
this is how they crammed through their so called right
(31:31):
to work legislation during a lame duck session in twenty twelve,
cowing to corporate interest. But then six years later, right,
something happened, and it's not something changed. To your point,
it comes back, and it comes back to bite you.
It comes back to haunt you, and it may take
six years, but it does come back. Tell us what
(31:53):
happened when Active is United in twenty eighteen with that
redistricting in those Republicans Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Yeah, you know, like like you said, and when that
happened in this this these really all this nasty policy
started coming through and people were like, wait a minute,
this is not what I voted for, you know, and
things are starting to hit them. They came together and
folks said, like, there has to be a way that
we can responsibly draw these legislative and congressional districts and
(32:24):
really left that in the hands of union members, ordinary
voters who like made common sense decisions about where people
needed representation. And because of that, you know, we got
better districts. The election turned out very, very different the
next time around, and we were able to you know,
(32:45):
repeal things like right to work in Michigan because of that,
because finally the voices of the constituents were being heard,
because they were being represented fairly, they weren't being drowned
out by corporate interests, you know. And back and you know,
back when the Michigan was first jerrymannered like that in
the middle of the night, it was a time where
(33:07):
you had places like or you had organizations like ALEC
and the Heritage Foundation, and they're pushing you know, all
these bad policies through and basically rubber stamp hating them
to states to do this. And we saw a whole
grouping of you know, states where these anti anti worker
policies came through and so again part of that corporate agenda.
(33:28):
But it comes full circle. People's bellies get full when
they realize that they're being hurt. And I think, you know,
what's happening right now is unfortunate, but it will come
back it will come back to haunt them the same
as it did in Michigan.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
You know, when you have people red and blue, left
and right, Democrat and Republican, then you have representation of
all people. I should say all, because there's certainly people
that are independents, but independence ty typically will you know,
vote one way or the other. They don't have a choice, right,
you know, especially when there's only know two people really
(34:02):
that they know are going to win. I'm sorry, Joe Stein,
but they you know, when districting is fair and balanced,
elective representatives have no choice but to listen to their
constituents because people forget if if you're I mean, this
is one thing that really bothers me, and and and
Joe Biden did say it. You know that doesn't bother me.
(34:23):
What's he said? I am the president for all of you,
you know, and even or when people say, and I
love it, even if you didn't vote for me, I'm
going to fight for you, because that's the reality. And
you know, when I'm a Democrat, when you know, President
Trump calls me evil and wants me to be personally
responsible for every single death that's occurred, even though it's
(34:44):
not proven. At some like you know, left leaning individual.
I don't feel that he is my president in representing me.
So people need to know, even if they're a Democrat,
that the Republican representative can hear them and represent them
and and vice versa.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Yes, yes, and there are there are places where where
some of these legislators do understand that. You know, yes,
and it's unfortunate.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
Kentucky, very red state. Yes he's a Democrat, he's there.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
And he's fantastic, and they keep electing him, right, you know,
like it's it's it's frustrating for people. It's frustrating for people.
It's been frustrating in labor to see what's what's been happening.
But I think when we can help our members understand
that we need folks in there that have their best
(35:38):
interests in mind, and we talk about these things because look,
we all know you have this wonderful show where you're
able to put this stuff out in ways that mainstream
media is not doing. You know, they're not hearing this
on on whatever news channel that they watch, so they
need to hear it from us. They need to hear
it from us. And the way elections are set up
(36:01):
right now, Ever since citizens united, and there's so much
money in it. You know, we're really seeing a moment where,
you know, we've been telling our members that people we
bargain across the table from are running the country. There
are I believe thirteen billionaires in the administrate, in the
cabinet right now. Those people do not have the same
(36:22):
experience our members do. They do not think about the
things that our members do, and so we have to
pull that back and making sure that there are you know,
fair districts being drawn, and that there are legislators in
there who feel accountable to their voice their voters instead
of the other way around, is the only way to
fix that.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
When you talk about relatability or lack thereof, you know,
Ben Shapiro, very strong Republican, very pro Israel.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
I know Ben.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
I've sat next to Ben, you know, in person, you know,
on television and I had to laugh. And I even
posted when he said, you know, you should raise the
retirement age to seventy and I said, as somebody who
sits on her butt on radio and television, I do
what he does. And you know he may have you know,
bigger audience because no offense, but conservatives seemed to back
(37:15):
people more than you know, the liberals who broadcast He
has no idea what it's like to be a hard
physical laborer. And you can't ask somebody who has really
they got up at the crack of dawn and they're
physically working. Because I come from, you know, blue collar workers.
My both my grandfather's, my mother's father and my father's
(37:36):
father were steel workers, I mean not steelroks.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
Excuse me, sheet.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Metal workers, see yes, sheet metal workers and and and
part of a union. And my my mother's father was
a teamster. And I I mean there was no way
there were the physically you know, couldn't do it. And
there were so many things that happened back in the
day until they got union protection, like asbestos. My grandfather
(38:02):
had his lungs and you know, things like that. So
you know, I just I can't stand when these you know,
very rich, usually white, white collar people who've never really
done a day of hard labor in their life, you know,
talk about things they don't know, they don't they don't understand,
and they don't understand working two or three jobs, you know,
(38:25):
or a husband and wife both working two or three
jobs just to keep food on the table, and to
keep the lights on and pay for the mortgage or
the rent.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
Right or swing shift, or you know, like struggling to
see if you can pay the deductible on your your
insurance pody. There's just so many things that aren't even
on the radar for them that you know, people struggle
with every day. And we're lucky to if you're in
a union, because you tend to have better benefits and
(38:53):
better wages and things like that, but it's still a struggle.
There's nobody you know, and the people I know, and
the people have thech were working for it. There's nobody
getting rich out here right They're just trying to make
it through. They're trying to do the best they can,
put their kids through college if they can, or a
trade school or whatever it may be. Eat But no,
the people making the decisions right now do not have
(39:14):
that same experience, and so we need to make sure
we're putting people in there who do no.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Absolutely, I can't make this up. My house was damaged
in the Eating Canyon fire. I'm blessed to have been
able to move back into my house, but we still
have stuff come up all the time, and I think
the insurance company thinks I'm making this up. So I
had all this black water just furting up like from
a pipe in the ground, and I call my plumber
and he came out, and I said, to insurance, you know,
(39:41):
will you cover it? I don't know, So I have
him write a report. And he said to me, he said,
you know, I know you work in the media. And
he said, can I ask you something. I said yeah,
and he goes, The economy's bad right now, isn't it.
And I said, yes, yes it is. And he goes,
cause I'm not making as much money.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
I don't have as much many people calling, I don't
have as much work. Now that's just one person, but
he said everybody, not just plumbers. Everybody he's talking to
feels the same way. We have literally thirty seconds.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
Last word to you, Amber listen, I again want to
just thank you for the time today and allowing me
to talk about this subject, because again, you know, folks
aren't hearing really what this is all about. They're hearing
a lot of the partisan fighting that's going on, and
that's a distraction. And so I feel like when we
(40:32):
have very real conversations with people about why this is happening,
why this is part of a bigger agenda, and what
we need to do to push back to make sure
that we not just maintain what we have but hopefully
make gains for working people. So just again, keep keep
everybody's eyes open on this stuff, keep doing what you're doing,
and keep speaking the truth, because that's how we're gonna
(40:53):
that's how we're going to get get workers back on
the forefront in this country instead of taking a back
seat to rich people.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Absolutely well, said Amber Miller, is director of the usw's
Rapid Response Department. Please follow her on x at Amber USWRR.
Also follow the USW on X and Facebook and Instagram
as well their handle at steel Workers. Visit their website
USW dot orgon also follow them on blue sky if
you're there, They're handled there is at steelworkers dot bsky
(41:23):
dot social. I'm Leslie Marshall. Shout out to Marky Markamaldi,
executive producer.
Speaker 4 (41:27):
Thank you for being with.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
Us today, and have a wonderful and a safe weekend,
and I hope a warm weekend.
Speaker 4 (41:32):
I think it's cold everywhere right now in the US.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
Have a good one.
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Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by Audiochuck Media Company.
The Brothers Ortiz
The Brothers Ortiz is the story of two brothers–both successful, but in very different ways. Gabe Ortiz becomes a third-highest ranking officer in all of Texas while his younger brother Larry climbs the ranks in Puro Tango Blast, a notorious Texas Prison gang. Gabe doesn’t know all the details of his brother’s nefarious dealings, and he’s made a point not to ask, to protect their relationship. But when Larry is murdered during a home invasion in a rented beach house, Gabe has no choice but to look into what happened that night. To solve Larry’s murder, Gabe, and the whole Ortiz family, must ask each other tough questions.