September 22, 2025 • 41 mins
The guest host for today's show is Brad Bannon. Brad runs Bannon Communications Research, a polling, message development and media firm which helps labor unions, progressive issue groups and Democratic candidates win public affairs and political campaigns. His show, 'Deadline D.C. with Brad Bannon,' airs every Monday from 3-4pm ET.
Brad is first joined by Kate Ackley, a Senior Reporter for Bloomberg Government.
The two examine the impending government shutdown, which is set to happen October 1st. Democrats seem less eager to bail out Republicans than they did at the beginning of the current Trump administration, drawing the line at new massive healthcare cuts which would drive up premiums 10-20% for folks with Affordable Care Act health plans.
Then, Brad is joined by Dr. Bob Bollinger is the Raj and Kamla Gupta Professor of Infectious Diseases at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine.
They examine the chaos caused at the CDC by RFK Jr. and the Trump administration, and the potentially dangerous new restrictions on who can now receive vaccines.
Dr. Bollinger holds joint appointments in International Health at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, and in Community Public Health at the JH School of Nursing.
He has more than 45 years of experience in international public health, clinical research, and education dealing with such global health priorities as HIV/AIDS, malaria, tuberculosis, leprosy, dengue, antibiotic resistant infections, COVID-19 and other emerging diseases.
Dr. Bollinger is also Associate Director of the Center for Clinical Global Health Education (CCGHE). Their website is main.ccghe.net.
Brad writes a political column every Sunday for 'The Hill.'
He's on the National Journal's panel of political insiders and is a national political analyst for WGN TV and Radio in Chicago and KNX Radio in Los Angeles. You can read Brad's columns at www.MuckRack.com/Brad-Bannon. His handle on BlueSky is @bradbannon.bsky.social.
(Image Credit: Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post/Getty Images)
Brad is first joined by Kate Ackley, a Senior Reporter for Bloomberg Government.
The two examine the impending government shutdown, which is set to happen October 1st. Democrats seem less eager to bail out Republicans than they did at the beginning of the current Trump administration, drawing the line at new massive healthcare cuts which would drive up premiums 10-20% for folks with Affordable Care Act health plans.
Then, Brad is joined by Dr. Bob Bollinger is the Raj and Kamla Gupta Professor of Infectious Diseases at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine.
They examine the chaos caused at the CDC by RFK Jr. and the Trump administration, and the potentially dangerous new restrictions on who can now receive vaccines.
Dr. Bollinger holds joint appointments in International Health at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, and in Community Public Health at the JH School of Nursing.
He has more than 45 years of experience in international public health, clinical research, and education dealing with such global health priorities as HIV/AIDS, malaria, tuberculosis, leprosy, dengue, antibiotic resistant infections, COVID-19 and other emerging diseases.
Dr. Bollinger is also Associate Director of the Center for Clinical Global Health Education (CCGHE). Their website is main.ccghe.net.
Brad writes a political column every Sunday for 'The Hill.'
He's on the National Journal's panel of political insiders and is a national political analyst for WGN TV and Radio in Chicago and KNX Radio in Los Angeles. You can read Brad's columns at www.MuckRack.com/Brad-Bannon. His handle on BlueSky is @bradbannon.bsky.social.
(Image Credit: Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post/Getty Images)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Leslie Marshall Show, a true democracy in talk radio
of for and by you, the people.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Live from our nation's capital, It's Deadline DC with Brad Bannon.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Welcome to Deadline DC. I'm Brad Bannon, the host. I'm
a national Democratic and progressive strategist, a political analyst for
news radio OKNX in Los Angeles, and a weekly columnist
for The Hill in Washington, d C. To get my
take on Donald Trump's imperial presidency, you can read my
(01:00):
columns in The Hill at muckrack dot com. Front Slash
Brad Bannon. Monday's on Deadline DC, I talked to the
people and to the players behind the politics and policies
that guide our great nation forward or at least keep
it from going backwards during Trump two point zero. This Monday, today,
(01:24):
we have a great show for you. In the first
half hour, our guests will be Kate Ackley, who's a
senior political reporter for Bloomberg Government. And then in the
second half hour, doctor Bob Bollinger, who's a professor of
infectious diseases at Johns Hopkins University, joins us to discuss
(01:47):
the coming flu season, the coming fall flu season, and
today is the first day of fall. I guess before
we get to our first guest, we are going to
play this clip, and the clip is from a Democratic
Senator Chris Murphy, talking about the possibility of a government
(02:08):
shutdown at midnight on September thirty. First.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Well, I mean, there's no negotiation happening because Donald Trump
is told Republicans don't talk to Democrats. So you know,
right now we are less than two weeks away from
the government running out of money, and Republicans are refusing
to speak to Democrats. It looks as if, you know,
they're gunning for a shutdown. And you know, what are
(02:36):
we asking to talk about in these negotiations. We're not
asking for the moon, right, We're not asking for some
big new healthcare program. We're simply saying, like, don't raise
premiums by ten twenty percent on everybody who has an
Affordable Care Act plan, Like, let's just not make the
situation worse. What are we saying about, you know, the
(02:56):
budget rit large. We're saying, listen, we would just like
Donald Trump to be legally right if we write a budget.
We want Donald Trump to actually implement the budget and
not view himself as a king who can spend the
money he wants when it rewards his political friends, and
he cannot spend the money as a means to try
to punish his political enemies. Right, spend the money in
(03:17):
the red states, not spend the money in the blue states.
So we're literally just saying, don't raise people's premiums by
seventy five percent, don't behave illegally, and you might be
able to get our votes. But they won't even talk
to us because I think they like the chaos. They
like the idea of a shutdown, and that's where they're
driving us, which would be a catastrophe for the country
(03:38):
if we end up in a shutdown simply because Republicans
refuse to even talk to Democrats.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
That was Democratic Senator Chris Murphy from Connecticut. We're talking
about the possibility of a government shutdown. Our gifts in
this half hour is Kate Actlely, who is a senior
reporter for Bloomberg Government. Kate, welcome back to Deadline DC.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Okay, why don't we try to explain to our audience
what's going on in Congress now. Democrats and Republicans each
have their own version of a Continuing Resolution that would
continue the operation of the government pass October first, So
(04:23):
we're getting close to the deadline. What are the Democratic
and Republican positions? Senator Murphy talked a little bit about it.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
Well, the Democratic one right as of right now is
that Democrats don't want so called clean cr stop gap
funding resolution that it just extends the funding, like you said,
past that September thirtieth deadline, when the fiscal year ends,
they have decided that they want to have some healthcare
(04:58):
provisions added on, and sort of the main one, and
the one that's getting a lot of lobbying attention right now,
is these Obamacare Enhanced Premium tax credits. And so basically,
like what you were saying is when people get on
those Obamacare plans, they're able to, you know, get tax
(05:20):
credits to bring down their premium costs when they're on
those Affordable Care Act plans. And you know, so right now,
if nothing is done, when people start looking at their
plans and the open enrollment starts I think November first.
So that's why even though these things don't really take
effect until next calendar year, people have to make their
(05:44):
plan choices. So we've seen a big lot of sort
of health industry stakeholders, including ones that don't always agree
with one another. But we see hospitals, doctors, the insurance
lobby as well as patient groups. There's a coalition that's
(06:04):
working on this and trying to get those you know,
in those enhanced premium tax credits it extended, you know,
beyond the end of this year, and it's become a
big lobbying fight. We're seeing ads now, they've been on
the hill, and what I found in reporting on this
recently is that you know, these health industry groups and
(06:28):
lobbyists are trying to sort of not be right in
the midst of this shutdown fight. You know, they're saying,
we're not taking a position on how lawmakers do this,
if they put it on the a continuing resolution or
do it some other way, but they want it to
move really by the end of this month. So you've
seen Democrats sort of take up that issue as well
(06:49):
as some other more healthcare related issues as being they
don't want to vote for a continuing resolution that doesn't
include that.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Now, Senator Murphy said they Republicans want to shut down
or implied it strongly. The Republicans want the government to
shut down. Do you think that's true.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
I think in these shutdown situations there's always sort of
a look at which party or which chamber of you know,
which chamber of the the House or the Senate, you
know who would get the blame. And so we're seeing
a lot of messaging on that. You know that Democrats
are going to say it's Trump and Republicans, and you've
(07:33):
already seen Republicans and Trump saying it's it's particularly the
Senate Democrats, because you know, they need sixty votes in
the Senate to move legislation, so saying that it would
be Senate Democrats not voting for it, that would be
the reason that it would shut down.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Now, let me ask you the reverse question. Our Democrat
Democrats want to shut down if they don't get the
health care protection provisions they want in the continuing resolution.
One thing that's clear is that many Democratic progressive activists
(08:15):
are angry at Senator Schumer for compromising on the last
budget deal when Trump's big budget passed, and he's under
pressure from Democratic activists. And so the question is what
do the Democrats do if they don't get the healthcare
(08:36):
provisions they want in the continuing resolution.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
Well, you're right that they're under pressure from the Democratic
base or activists, and there is some polling. Have you
seen some polling to back that up, because I've seen
some here and there where there is an interest in
being ready to shut down, being ready to go that
(09:00):
far over the healthcare tax cuts or tax credits or
other you know sort of healthcare. Maybe some energy matters
as well. You know, but it's it, you know, it's
a it's obviously a thorny issue and one that right
(09:21):
now the House and Senate are are in you know,
a district work period time. They're not in the capital.
I mean some of them are, and leaders are, and
there's some discussion that maybe some of the Democratic some
of the Democratic leaders will meet with President Trump perhaps
this week. So you know, there's there's almost two weeks,
(09:45):
but it's it is sort of coming down to the
wire with the idea that Congress is not in session
at this moment in Washington, they're mostly back in their
districts and you know, potentially.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Hearing in September twenty, which is only two days before
the deadline.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
So I think this schedule, it would be worth to
figure its could potentially in flux.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
I mean, yeah, yeah, Well you're a long time observer
of Washington, d C. If the government shut down, who
do you think is going to catch the blame for this?
Speaker 4 (10:25):
Well, like I was saying, I mean, there really is
a blame game that does go on with this. And
you see messaging from both parties right now, they're testing
that messaging out and you'd have to then probably conduct
some opinion polls after and see what did voters think.
We're such a divided group.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Oh kay, I'm going to have to rudely interrupt you.
We're taking a break for our radio listeners. We will
continue with our online viewers right after this very short break.
Welcome back to Deadline d C with Brad Bannon for
(11:08):
our radio listeners. We missed you while we're gone. But
if you'd like to watch this broadcast and podcast as
well as listen to it, you can watch it at
Twitter dot com front Slash Bradbannon, at Facebook dot com
(11:28):
front Slash, Deadline d C with Brad Bannon, front Slash Videos,
or at YouTube dot com at Deadline d C. Our
guest in this half hours and we're glad to have
her as Kate Ackley, who is a senior reporter for
Bloomberg News. Kate, let me ask you about another piece
(11:55):
you wrote for Bloomberg. Government lobbyist, The people who we
traditionally consider lobbyists in Washington, DC are asking for limits
on online influences. Could you discuss that right?
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Well, I mean, as you've seen more and more advocacy
and lobbying sort of move online. There's social media campaigns,
digital acusts that moving online, and you know, I lobbyists
say that. You know, there are a lot of groups
or companies even that will hire online influencers to weigh
(12:35):
in on a position. Now, sometimes they don't pay them.
Sometimes they have a connection to somebody with a big
social media following and they enlist them to to support
some cause or some you know, policy matter. But there
are examples where people are paid social media online influencers
(12:56):
are paid to pay, you know, to weigh in. And
there's no disclosure that there's no regular shoeleather lobbyists who
go up to Capitol Hill and have meetings with lawmakers
and staff are subject to disclosures under the Lobbying Disclosure Act.
And what this group of lobbyists, this is from a
(13:16):
group called the National Institute for Lobbying and Ethics. This
group is proposing and has sort of an outline of
what would be something that Congress could take up if
there are lawmakers that decide to take this up. That
would require lobbying organizations or companies when they do hire
(13:37):
and spend more than five thousand dollars a year tapping
an online influencer to tout a policy proposal or you know,
to weigh in on a debate, that they would have
to list that who they hired and on their lobbying
disclosure reports. So it would not require this proposal would
not require online influencers them else to have to register
(14:02):
as lobbyists. They wouldn't have they wouldn't become deemed you know,
registered lobbyists. But it would make as part of the
disclosure on lobbying forms that trade associations or companies or
whatever already file, they would need to list if they're
spending more than five thousand dollars a year on that
(14:23):
type of campaign. They would need to provide some details
which influencer, what issue, and an estimate of how much paid.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Now, you.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Write and edit a newsletter on the lobbying industry, what's
that called?
Speaker 4 (14:41):
Right, we have power Play Bloomberg Government's power Play newsletter.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Yes, I want to ask you a general question, what
is the state of the lobby industry with the return
of Donald Trump. I imagine it's thriving because there's a
lot of you know, the president generates a lot of activity,
and I imagine that's good for lobbyists.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
It certainly depends on who and what issues. And what
we've seen are certain firms that are Trump connected have
thrived and have you know, I think maybe the last
time I was on, we talked about Ballard Partners, which
has you know, skyrocketed into the top tier, the top
It's in the top two firms this year. That's a
(15:28):
Florida firm that has ties to the Trump administration. And
we've seen other examples. We've seen new firms come in
because they're close with people in the Trump administration or
the Trump family and set up shop. And this is
something that has happened in other administrations as well. And
some of those firms really build out and they stay
(15:50):
here for a long time. So we're monitoring a lot
of those firms. Tariffs has been a big driver of
business on the lobbying side, And you know, we had
the August recess, which is typically a fairly quiet downtime
for lobbyists. And one of the stories I did in
our power Play newsletter after the August recess was talk
(16:13):
to people about all the tariff lobbying, because you know,
the President was making announcements about tariffs over the August
recess time, so there wasn't really a downtime for a
lot of those lobbyists who are you know, representing companies
or industries that either have concerns about tariffs or have
to monitor this in real time. You know a lot
(16:35):
of potential trade deals or negotiations or things not going
well or maybe going well, but a lot of things
to respond to and to weigh in on, even in
that traditional sort of quiet time for Washington, which was
the August recess. So you don't see a lot of
lulls with this administration in terms of the announcements and
(16:58):
the policies, and there's just a often a lot of
a lot of work for lobbyists, so those who have
ties to the Trump administration or are seen to be
plugged in, and also with leadership on Capitol Hill, it's
it's they say, it's been a very busy time for them.
And we did see last year in our annual Beak
(17:21):
of Lobbying report. Last year was you know, the biggest
amount of Lobbying Disclosure Act fees tracked, and I believe
it looks like this year would be bigger. I mean,
a lot of the firms are on pace to report
more lobbying revenue this year than last year.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Now, there are a lot of winners and losers in
these tariff battles, and one industry that's getting hit real
hard is in the Midwest where farms are going bankrupt
apparently at the record rate. Are our lobbyists representing farmers
(18:03):
and agricultural interest involved in these tariff battles.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
There are lobbyists for agriculture interests, there are trade groups
that represent agribusiness and farming you know entities, and some
of these companies, as you know, are quite large, big
big corporations that own you know, multiple you know, across
(18:30):
sectors of the egg sectors. So there are many lobbyists
that are working on this and that is one thing
that we've looked at in some of our reporting is
when an industry or or say just a specific farm
or or you know, a group from a specific state
(18:52):
they look at. There are certain I guess sort of
red state senators that they look to, obviously those leadership
and maybe on key committees to make that case if
they do have concerns. That seems to be one of
the ways that they try to put some influence into
the administration via Capitol Hill. And then of course they
(19:15):
also have meetings with the US Trade Representative or other
administration officials, and those are going on.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Kate, thank you very much for joining us today on
Deadline DC. I hope you will return after you've recovered
from disappearance. We're going to go to break now. Our
guest after the break will be doctor Bob Bollinger, who
is a professor of the Executive Infectious Diseases at Johns
(19:45):
Hopkins University. We'll be right back after this quick break.
Welcome back to Deadline DC with Brad Bannon. Our guest
in this half hour is doctor Bob Bollinger, who is
a professor's infectious Diseases at Johns Hopkins University. It's the
(20:09):
start of the fall flu season. There's a lot of
controversy across the land about vaccines, so we thought was
an appropriate time to tackle this this topic. But before
we do, we're going to play this clip, and this
is doctor Jason Goldman, who is the president of the
(20:33):
American College of Physicians, talking about vaccines and COVID.
Speaker 5 (20:40):
Finally, doctor somebody that was in the room that we
can talk to, you've been watching these proceedings inside the room.
Do you think these RFK junior hand picked advisors are qualified?
Because there seem to be some or a lot of
confusion about the bookvoting language.
Speaker 6 (21:02):
Thank you so much for that question. As an internal
medicine specialist, we are dedicated to comprehensive and compassionate care
of our patients, and we are greatly concerned that the
actions of Secretary Kennedy's Vaccine Committee are continuing to undermine
the trust in vaccines, reverse decades of vaccine experience, endanger
(21:23):
the public health and our patients, as well as take
away the patients and the parents' choice on how they
can access healthcare and what they can do. This committee
is not acting in a transparent, rigorous scientific process.
Speaker 5 (21:37):
So is it true that they didn't even know what
they were voting on at times?
Speaker 6 (21:43):
The vote that they did yesterday was contradictory. They presented
data and had two different outcomes from the same set
of data, claiming that on one hand, no one should
get the MMRV combo vaccine, but at the same time
saying that those in lower economic status the vaccines for
children's for them and medicaid would not be would be
(22:06):
able to get that vaccine, raising the question, so, if
you are concerned enough that this causes harm, why are
you allowing the most vulnerable to have that vaccine but
not everyone else? Or, as I raised today, the second point,
perhaps the second vote got it right, that there is
no evidence or data to justify removing it from the
(22:26):
vaccine schedule.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
That was doctor Jason Goldman, who is president of the
American College of Physicians. Our guest in this half hour
is doctor Bob Bolinger, who is a professor of infectious
diseases at John Hopkins University. Doctor Bollinger, could you comment
(22:50):
on what doctor Goldman said?
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Well, I think I agree one hundred percent with what
Doc Goldman said. I think our confidence in the decision
making of this group being based on science is fading.
In fact, you know, you may be aware last week
I think it was up to fifty organizations have signed
on to Fifty professional organizations signed on to a statement
(23:16):
calling for RF case Junior's resignation because a lot of
this uncertainty and confusion and lack of transparency and politicization
of a which should be a very straightforward scientific decision
making process.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
And you would think so it used to be anyway, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
I think it's it's got to be really confusing obviously
now for patients, for communities, for parents to getting all
this confusion and mixed message, and it should be simple.
The one thing that was that was I'll say that
was worth paying attention to. There's only one thing that
I think that they said that makes sense, and that
(23:58):
was confer with your physician, right, okay. And I think
physicians like myself and others who want to base our
recommendations on facts and science and the best available science
are going to continue to do that. And as I
think you've alluded to, even some of the states are
pulling together in what they're calling there's a West Coast
(24:20):
Health Alliance is now Northeast or East Coast Health Alliance,
where the states are pulling together to ensure that recommendations
for people in their states are clearer, based on science,
based on the recommendations of the professional organizations and know
this stuff, and also make sure people have access to
the vaccines and that the insurance companies will cover them.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
No, it's very odd. I'm doing this show from Massachusetts today,
and every time I turn on TV, including watching the
Red Sox games, I've got Governor of Massachusetts More Healy
begging me to get a vaccination. Now, in some states
like Florida, I guess the governor or are doing everything
(25:01):
they can to discourage people from getting vaccinations. Uh. And
my question is this seems like chaos to me, and
I have a very bad feeling, especially since today is
the first day of fall, and fall, as I'm sure
you well know, it's infectious disease season. So are we
headed to real problems here?
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Well, certainly if people don't follow the recommendations of the
professional organizations, and if they follow the recommendations of pseudoscience,
then of course we're going to run into a problem.
And uh, you know, I think I got my flu
in my COVID booster last week. And I'd recommend people
to follow the device of their physicians and their and
(25:44):
the and the professional organizations like the American Academy of
Physicians the ACP. There's lots of organizations that are stepping
up in the in light of this chaos to try
to offer, you know, fact based guidance and recommendations. I
think that's what we're coming to, Brad, is we can't
rely on on what some states are saying, or or
(26:06):
even on what the CDC is saying reliably. So we've
got to turn to the experts. And that's what a
lot of these states are. Some of the states, like
the state you live in and the one I live
in is are moving towards But I do worry about
what's going to happen in Florida and other places where
there's mixed messages.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Now, let me ask you this, Uh, you know, it
seems to me that the problem here we have here.
You're right, everybody should consult their physicians for the physician's guidance.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
But they've got these including the president has the most
massive media forum in the nation, and it's Secretary of
Healthy Human Services has a forum too when it comes
to infectious diseases, and they're basically saying that, you know,
don't rush and get a vaccination. You know, I think
(27:00):
twice about it. I'm not even sure they're saying consult
your physician like you are. But I don't know. I
just have a bad feeling, and I hope I'm wrong,
but I just hope I have a bad thing. Let
me ask you this question, who are the people now?
(27:20):
A lot of the people who were on these boards
on infectious diseases that the CDC are going now because
it will push out or resigned. What were the people
that the new people on these diseases on on the
CDC panels? Do they have medical or scientific credentials or
(27:41):
are just people off the street with a, you know,
a strong point of view.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Well, I think they certainly have strong points of view.
Some of them have, you know, only some scientific background
based on what I don't. I don't know them individually,
and I haven't looked at it in detail. But I
think what you heard from the comment and the clip
earlier is that there's even confusion on that committee, right, Yeah,
And so there's probably some uh, some discrepancy and not
(28:09):
lack of consensus, so which I guess is always the case, right,
But I think the qualifications that you had to have
to be sitting on these committees in the past were
quite strict and quite high.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
And you know, the bar was high to get onto
the A, C, I, P and right rightfully. So you
want the best and smartest and most knowledgeable people, and
they're all gone now. So now it doesn't mean that
there aren't people in the committee now that that have
some information or some knowledge. But I don't think the
public has confidence. Certainly a lot of the clinicians don't
(28:41):
have confidence in what's coming out of these committees. It's
almost a little bit like, you know, we don't trust
the media, we don't trust the government, we don't trust
social media. Now we can't trust the CDC. Where do
we go for good information that we can rely on, Well,
back to your physician, ironically, Uh, back and the physicians
are going to rely on the professional organizations that include
(29:02):
the experts that used to sit on the ac IP,
the Infects, the Disease Society of America, the you know,
American Pediatric you know, Association of Pediatricians. So uh, that's
that's they're going to become the experts and and you
know that's the good news is that these organizations are
stepping up to try to fill that void. With with
reliable information. Uh.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Now it seems to me we're creating a two tiered
system here where people in the Northeast and you know
the problem with this geographic logic is flu in, COVID
no no geographic bounds. So even if you live in Oregon,
for example, and they are encouraging people like vaccines, uh,
(29:47):
their next door to states like Utah and Ohio which
are discoveraging discouraging vaccinations. So you know, I'm glad these
regional collaborate meta medical collaborators exist, but it's not going
to help very much since the COVID and flu and
(30:09):
everything else don't know any regional boundaries. We're going to
have to take a break here, doctor Bablinger. We'll be
back with more of Deadline DC with Brad Bannon and
more of doctor Bob Bollinger, Professor of Infectious Diseases at
Johns Hopkins University, right after this quick break. To give
(30:30):
our radio listeners a little rest, but we will continue
this interview with our viewers on online viewers, So don't
go anywhere. We'll be right back with Deadline DC. Welcome
(31:00):
back to Deadline d C with Brad Bannon. Uh, my
guest in this half hour is doctor Bob Bollinger, who
was a professor of infectious diseases at Johns Hopkins University.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Doctor, let me try this out on you. You know,
you hear of your newsreader, you hear of outbreaks of tuberculosis, uh,
and other disease across the country.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
It makes me wonder, what would you know? And COVID
is always lurking in the back of people's minds. After
such a horrible a couple of years, a couple of
years ago. Uh, our infectious diseases getting worse. I hear
I keep reading about tuberculosis out outbreaks and I thought
(31:57):
that was done with well.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
I mean, we've had the largest outbreak of tuberculosis in
probably decades. Recently in the last year around Kansas City,
we've had the largest outbreak of measles in the United
States in probably forty years. I mean, this measles was
eradicated in two thousand and I think we now have
close to fourteen hundred cases this year and we're not
(32:22):
even finished the year yet, which greatly outpaces anything we've
seen in the past. And it's all that particular outbreak
measles being driven by the lack of vaccination, and back
to what you said earlier, it's spilled over from Texas
into other communities to the vulnerable populations that are also unvaccinated.
(32:43):
So I think it's a breakdown of public health. It's
a breakdown of confidence that people have in science and
vaccination as well as basic public health public health principles,
and also a decrease in investment in public health to
go out in the communities and educate people to go
out and look for tuberculos and screen people for it.
I mean, the health departments are being devastated with cuts.
(33:06):
People are getting out of public health. So I really
worry about our preparedness for the next pandemic, for the
next bioterrorism attack, you know, or the next outbreak. We're
moving in the wrong direction and increasing our global our
health security, if that's what you want to call it
as a country.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Now, there's currently a debate going on in Congress over
whether or not to restore the cuts in Medicare and
Medicaid and also to lower premiums under the government American
(33:47):
Care Act. And I understand rural hospitals have been devastated.
Could you talk about the impact of the recent budget
bill and the cuts and Medicaid aid to rural hospitals
and also increases insurance premiums.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Well, it's really that's not my area of expertise. As
you know, Bradham unaffects a disease guy. But I would
say that anything that decreases access to affordable healthcare is
bad for all of us as a society. It's going
to increase the rest of us. The cost for the
rest of us right because people are going to more
people are going to get sick and get sicker if
they don't have access to care earlier in the process
(34:32):
or to prevent disease. So it's going to be more
expensive for all of us and more challenging for all
of us. If we reduce access to care, we'll reduce
the access to affordable healthcare.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Our guest in this half hour is doctor Bob Bollinger,
who is a professor of infectious diseases at Johns Hopkins University.
And I want to welcome back our radio listeners who
had a quick break but now or back. Let me
ask you this question, what is the danger? Are there
(35:07):
any signs out there, either here in the United States
or abroad that there's another pandemic lurking in the shadows.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Oh, it's just a question of not not if, it's
a question of when, Brad and we've we've been those
of us in this business have been talking about this
even before COVID. Right, we've got such I mean, most
of these diseases are what do we call zoonotic. They
they break out because humans and other animals are are
getting together and sharing viruses and bacteria with each other,
(35:39):
and when that happens, they can jump, you know, from
one animal to the other, in this case, to us.
And there are examples like monkey pocks and COVID and ebola,
and many examples of diseases like that bird flu for
examples another one. So I'm very concerned that that's going
to happen. The question is are we prepared for it?
(36:00):
And I don't think we're I think we're less prepared
for it now. And we have a lack of leadership
uh and and and UH in the in the public
health departments. UH and certainly in the federal government. UH
and a lot of people who are dedicated to helping
us as a society, you know, deal with these issues,
are getting discouraged from going into this into public health.
(36:21):
There they're leaving the uh the help public health departments
because there's lack of funding or because they're getting uh,
you know, bombarded with with uh you know, uh criticism
for being involved in public health. So it's a it's
actually it puts us in a much more vulnerable position.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Well, let me ask you this question, then, what should
we be doing to prevent what you consider an edible
outbreak of another infectious diseases? Besides getting vaccinations, what should
did the government be doing now?
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Well, in addition to investing in respepons tools like vaccine,
development like diagnostics so that you can quickly diagnose a
problem when it hits, we also need to be let
me use an analogy of smoke alarms. We need smoke
alarms set up all over the world and all over
the country to detect the smoke before the fire breaks out.
(37:18):
By smoke, I mean the next COVID, the next anthrax attack,
the next you know, unusual organism, the next rare case
of highly resistant tuberculosis for example. We need to have
global systems because it's not enough for us just to
set up these smoke alarms in the United States. We
(37:39):
need to be partnering around the world because, as you said,
these these diseases spread quickly around the world. They're not
going to they're not going to just stay within one place.
So we need to develop the partnerships with these other countries.
And at a time where we need this, we're pulling back, right,
We're pulling back investments in global health. We're pulling back
investments in those partnerships, and we're really shutting down the
(38:00):
smoke alarms that we need to help us prepare and
know when these things are coming.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Well, now, you teach at John Hopkins University, and John
Hopkins is known as a research center, among other things.
Have it seems to me a problem that we've apparently
because I even remember reading somewhere about layoffs at John
(38:27):
Hopkins is the cuts and research funding. How how bad
has that been.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
It's been a challenge for all all universities, not just
Johns Hopkins to have cuts. I mean, I think, you know,
we certainly face significant cuts, but we're not the only university.
This is affect universities in red states, blue states all
over the country, so it's not unique challenge to Johns Hopkins.
And then and I think as a country, we're facing
(38:56):
challenges because of those cuts. And you know, as I said,
it's going to make us less prepared help us. You know,
it's going to prevent us from progressing even further in
in uh, in our scientific advances that are going to
protect the health of the of the you know, Americans
as well as others around the world. And that's a
real problem. I mean, we need more investment, not less investment.
(39:19):
We need smart we don't need we don't We want
to make sure we invest strategically and smart, but we
need to increase our investment in science.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
You know, worries me hear about you know, cutbacks and
research on infectious diseases for example, Uh, you know, looking
for cures for the next medical disaster. Have you know,
are we severely limiting our ability uh to find new
(39:46):
cures for diseases and cope with old ones?
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Well? Absolutely. We used to be the world's leader in
developing those solutions, right, and we're uh just divest reducing
our investment in that leadership. That's scientific leadership. Other countries
are going to pick up the slack. China and other
places are going to we may very well be buying
(40:11):
our buying the solutions to these problems from China someday
or other countries because we're not investing in the same
way we did here in the United States.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Hey, doctor Bollinger, thank you very much for joining us
again today on Deadline DC with Brad Bannon. I want
to thank our guests today, doctor Bollinger and Kate Aclee
in the first segment who has Kate's a senior reporter
from Bloomberg Government. I also want to tell you that
(40:44):
next week we have a show scheduled with two great guests.
Our first guest who will be Tim Carr from Press
Freedom who is going to talk about the controversies over
freedom of speech and I mean Kim uh and uh
Charlie Kirk. We also have Anna vl Ds who is
(41:09):
the CEO of the Latino doing a uh collaborative.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
UH.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
So we're gonna we're have a great show for you.
Uh miss next week show UH with the very best
and aggressive progressive online must see TV at your own peril.
Looking forward to talking to you guests again next week,
and take care of yourselves until we see you again.
Speaker 6 (41:39):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
This is Brad Bannon signing off on Deadline DC with
Brad Bannon,
The Leslie Marshall Show, a true democracy in talk radio
of for and by you, the people.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Live from our nation's capital, It's Deadline DC with Brad Bannon.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Welcome to Deadline DC. I'm Brad Bannon, the host. I'm
a national Democratic and progressive strategist, a political analyst for
news radio OKNX in Los Angeles, and a weekly columnist
for The Hill in Washington, d C. To get my
take on Donald Trump's imperial presidency, you can read my
(01:00):
columns in The Hill at muckrack dot com. Front Slash
Brad Bannon. Monday's on Deadline DC, I talked to the
people and to the players behind the politics and policies
that guide our great nation forward or at least keep
it from going backwards during Trump two point zero. This Monday, today,
(01:24):
we have a great show for you. In the first
half hour, our guests will be Kate Ackley, who's a
senior political reporter for Bloomberg Government. And then in the
second half hour, doctor Bob Bollinger, who's a professor of
infectious diseases at Johns Hopkins University, joins us to discuss
(01:47):
the coming flu season, the coming fall flu season, and
today is the first day of fall. I guess before
we get to our first guest, we are going to
play this clip, and the clip is from a Democratic
Senator Chris Murphy, talking about the possibility of a government
(02:08):
shutdown at midnight on September thirty. First.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Well, I mean, there's no negotiation happening because Donald Trump
is told Republicans don't talk to Democrats. So you know,
right now we are less than two weeks away from
the government running out of money, and Republicans are refusing
to speak to Democrats. It looks as if, you know,
they're gunning for a shutdown. And you know, what are
(02:36):
we asking to talk about in these negotiations. We're not
asking for the moon, right, We're not asking for some
big new healthcare program. We're simply saying, like, don't raise
premiums by ten twenty percent on everybody who has an
Affordable Care Act plan, Like, let's just not make the
situation worse. What are we saying about, you know, the
(02:56):
budget rit large. We're saying, listen, we would just like
Donald Trump to be legally right if we write a budget.
We want Donald Trump to actually implement the budget and
not view himself as a king who can spend the
money he wants when it rewards his political friends, and
he cannot spend the money as a means to try
to punish his political enemies. Right, spend the money in
(03:17):
the red states, not spend the money in the blue states.
So we're literally just saying, don't raise people's premiums by
seventy five percent, don't behave illegally, and you might be
able to get our votes. But they won't even talk
to us because I think they like the chaos. They
like the idea of a shutdown, and that's where they're
driving us, which would be a catastrophe for the country
(03:38):
if we end up in a shutdown simply because Republicans
refuse to even talk to Democrats.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
That was Democratic Senator Chris Murphy from Connecticut. We're talking
about the possibility of a government shutdown. Our gifts in
this half hour is Kate Actlely, who is a senior
reporter for Bloomberg Government. Kate, welcome back to Deadline DC.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Okay, why don't we try to explain to our audience
what's going on in Congress now. Democrats and Republicans each
have their own version of a Continuing Resolution that would
continue the operation of the government pass October first, So
(04:23):
we're getting close to the deadline. What are the Democratic
and Republican positions? Senator Murphy talked a little bit about it.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
Well, the Democratic one right as of right now is
that Democrats don't want so called clean cr stop gap
funding resolution that it just extends the funding, like you said,
past that September thirtieth deadline, when the fiscal year ends,
they have decided that they want to have some healthcare
(04:58):
provisions added on, and sort of the main one, and
the one that's getting a lot of lobbying attention right now,
is these Obamacare Enhanced Premium tax credits. And so basically,
like what you were saying is when people get on
those Obamacare plans, they're able to, you know, get tax
(05:20):
credits to bring down their premium costs when they're on
those Affordable Care Act plans. And you know, so right now,
if nothing is done, when people start looking at their
plans and the open enrollment starts I think November first.
So that's why even though these things don't really take
effect until next calendar year, people have to make their
(05:44):
plan choices. So we've seen a big lot of sort
of health industry stakeholders, including ones that don't always agree
with one another. But we see hospitals, doctors, the insurance
lobby as well as patient groups. There's a coalition that's
(06:04):
working on this and trying to get those you know,
in those enhanced premium tax credits it extended, you know,
beyond the end of this year, and it's become a
big lobbying fight. We're seeing ads now, they've been on
the hill, and what I found in reporting on this
recently is that you know, these health industry groups and
(06:28):
lobbyists are trying to sort of not be right in
the midst of this shutdown fight. You know, they're saying,
we're not taking a position on how lawmakers do this,
if they put it on the a continuing resolution or
do it some other way, but they want it to
move really by the end of this month. So you've
seen Democrats sort of take up that issue as well
(06:49):
as some other more healthcare related issues as being they
don't want to vote for a continuing resolution that doesn't
include that.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Now, Senator Murphy said they Republicans want to shut down
or implied it strongly. The Republicans want the government to
shut down. Do you think that's true.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
I think in these shutdown situations there's always sort of
a look at which party or which chamber of you know,
which chamber of the the House or the Senate, you
know who would get the blame. And so we're seeing
a lot of messaging on that. You know that Democrats
are going to say it's Trump and Republicans, and you've
(07:33):
already seen Republicans and Trump saying it's it's particularly the
Senate Democrats, because you know, they need sixty votes in
the Senate to move legislation, so saying that it would
be Senate Democrats not voting for it, that would be
the reason that it would shut down.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Now, let me ask you the reverse question. Our Democrat
Democrats want to shut down if they don't get the
health care protection provisions they want in the continuing resolution.
One thing that's clear is that many Democratic progressive activists
(08:15):
are angry at Senator Schumer for compromising on the last
budget deal when Trump's big budget passed, and he's under
pressure from Democratic activists. And so the question is what
do the Democrats do if they don't get the healthcare
(08:36):
provisions they want in the continuing resolution.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
Well, you're right that they're under pressure from the Democratic
base or activists, and there is some polling. Have you
seen some polling to back that up, because I've seen
some here and there where there is an interest in
being ready to shut down, being ready to go that
(09:00):
far over the healthcare tax cuts or tax credits or
other you know sort of healthcare. Maybe some energy matters
as well. You know, but it's it, you know, it's
a it's obviously a thorny issue and one that right
(09:21):
now the House and Senate are are in you know,
a district work period time. They're not in the capital.
I mean some of them are, and leaders are, and
there's some discussion that maybe some of the Democratic some
of the Democratic leaders will meet with President Trump perhaps
this week. So you know, there's there's almost two weeks,
(09:45):
but it's it is sort of coming down to the
wire with the idea that Congress is not in session
at this moment in Washington, they're mostly back in their
districts and you know, potentially.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Hearing in September twenty, which is only two days before
the deadline.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
So I think this schedule, it would be worth to
figure its could potentially in flux.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
I mean, yeah, yeah, Well you're a long time observer
of Washington, d C. If the government shut down, who
do you think is going to catch the blame for this?
Speaker 4 (10:25):
Well, like I was saying, I mean, there really is
a blame game that does go on with this. And
you see messaging from both parties right now, they're testing
that messaging out and you'd have to then probably conduct
some opinion polls after and see what did voters think.
We're such a divided group.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Oh kay, I'm going to have to rudely interrupt you.
We're taking a break for our radio listeners. We will
continue with our online viewers right after this very short break.
Welcome back to Deadline d C with Brad Bannon for
(11:08):
our radio listeners. We missed you while we're gone. But
if you'd like to watch this broadcast and podcast as
well as listen to it, you can watch it at
Twitter dot com front Slash Bradbannon, at Facebook dot com
(11:28):
front Slash, Deadline d C with Brad Bannon, front Slash Videos,
or at YouTube dot com at Deadline d C. Our
guest in this half hours and we're glad to have
her as Kate Ackley, who is a senior reporter for
Bloomberg News. Kate, let me ask you about another piece
(11:55):
you wrote for Bloomberg. Government lobbyist, The people who we
traditionally consider lobbyists in Washington, DC are asking for limits
on online influences. Could you discuss that right?
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Well, I mean, as you've seen more and more advocacy
and lobbying sort of move online. There's social media campaigns,
digital acusts that moving online, and you know, I lobbyists
say that. You know, there are a lot of groups
or companies even that will hire online influencers to weigh
(12:35):
in on a position. Now, sometimes they don't pay them.
Sometimes they have a connection to somebody with a big
social media following and they enlist them to to support
some cause or some you know, policy matter. But there
are examples where people are paid social media online influencers
(12:56):
are paid to pay, you know, to weigh in. And
there's no disclosure that there's no regular shoeleather lobbyists who
go up to Capitol Hill and have meetings with lawmakers
and staff are subject to disclosures under the Lobbying Disclosure Act.
And what this group of lobbyists, this is from a
(13:16):
group called the National Institute for Lobbying and Ethics. This
group is proposing and has sort of an outline of
what would be something that Congress could take up if
there are lawmakers that decide to take this up. That
would require lobbying organizations or companies when they do hire
(13:37):
and spend more than five thousand dollars a year tapping
an online influencer to tout a policy proposal or you know,
to weigh in on a debate, that they would have
to list that who they hired and on their lobbying
disclosure reports. So it would not require this proposal would
not require online influencers them else to have to register
(14:02):
as lobbyists. They wouldn't have they wouldn't become deemed you know,
registered lobbyists. But it would make as part of the
disclosure on lobbying forms that trade associations or companies or
whatever already file, they would need to list if they're
spending more than five thousand dollars a year on that
(14:23):
type of campaign. They would need to provide some details
which influencer, what issue, and an estimate of how much paid.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Now, you.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Write and edit a newsletter on the lobbying industry, what's
that called?
Speaker 4 (14:41):
Right, we have power Play Bloomberg Government's power Play newsletter.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Yes, I want to ask you a general question, what
is the state of the lobby industry with the return
of Donald Trump. I imagine it's thriving because there's a
lot of you know, the president generates a lot of activity,
and I imagine that's good for lobbyists.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
It certainly depends on who and what issues. And what
we've seen are certain firms that are Trump connected have
thrived and have you know, I think maybe the last
time I was on, we talked about Ballard Partners, which
has you know, skyrocketed into the top tier, the top
It's in the top two firms this year. That's a
(15:28):
Florida firm that has ties to the Trump administration. And
we've seen other examples. We've seen new firms come in
because they're close with people in the Trump administration or
the Trump family and set up shop. And this is
something that has happened in other administrations as well. And
some of those firms really build out and they stay
(15:50):
here for a long time. So we're monitoring a lot
of those firms. Tariffs has been a big driver of
business on the lobbying side, And you know, we had
the August recess, which is typically a fairly quiet downtime
for lobbyists. And one of the stories I did in
our power Play newsletter after the August recess was talk
(16:13):
to people about all the tariff lobbying, because you know,
the President was making announcements about tariffs over the August
recess time, so there wasn't really a downtime for a
lot of those lobbyists who are you know, representing companies
or industries that either have concerns about tariffs or have
to monitor this in real time. You know a lot
(16:35):
of potential trade deals or negotiations or things not going
well or maybe going well, but a lot of things
to respond to and to weigh in on, even in
that traditional sort of quiet time for Washington, which was
the August recess. So you don't see a lot of
lulls with this administration in terms of the announcements and
(16:58):
the policies, and there's just a often a lot of
a lot of work for lobbyists, so those who have
ties to the Trump administration or are seen to be
plugged in, and also with leadership on Capitol Hill, it's
it's they say, it's been a very busy time for them.
And we did see last year in our annual Beak
(17:21):
of Lobbying report. Last year was you know, the biggest
amount of Lobbying Disclosure Act fees tracked, and I believe
it looks like this year would be bigger. I mean,
a lot of the firms are on pace to report
more lobbying revenue this year than last year.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Now, there are a lot of winners and losers in
these tariff battles, and one industry that's getting hit real
hard is in the Midwest where farms are going bankrupt
apparently at the record rate. Are our lobbyists representing farmers
(18:03):
and agricultural interest involved in these tariff battles.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
There are lobbyists for agriculture interests, there are trade groups
that represent agribusiness and farming you know entities, and some
of these companies, as you know, are quite large, big
big corporations that own you know, multiple you know, across
(18:30):
sectors of the egg sectors. So there are many lobbyists
that are working on this and that is one thing
that we've looked at in some of our reporting is
when an industry or or say just a specific farm
or or you know, a group from a specific state
(18:52):
they look at. There are certain I guess sort of
red state senators that they look to, obviously those leadership
and maybe on key committees to make that case if
they do have concerns. That seems to be one of
the ways that they try to put some influence into
the administration via Capitol Hill. And then of course they
(19:15):
also have meetings with the US Trade Representative or other
administration officials, and those are going on.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Kate, thank you very much for joining us today on
Deadline DC. I hope you will return after you've recovered
from disappearance. We're going to go to break now. Our
guest after the break will be doctor Bob Bollinger, who
is a professor of the Executive Infectious Diseases at Johns
(19:45):
Hopkins University. We'll be right back after this quick break.
Welcome back to Deadline DC with Brad Bannon. Our guest
in this half hour is doctor Bob Bollinger, who is
a professor's infectious Diseases at Johns Hopkins University. It's the
(20:09):
start of the fall flu season. There's a lot of
controversy across the land about vaccines, so we thought was
an appropriate time to tackle this this topic. But before
we do, we're going to play this clip, and this
is doctor Jason Goldman, who is the president of the
(20:33):
American College of Physicians, talking about vaccines and COVID.
Speaker 5 (20:40):
Finally, doctor somebody that was in the room that we
can talk to, you've been watching these proceedings inside the room.
Do you think these RFK junior hand picked advisors are qualified?
Because there seem to be some or a lot of
confusion about the bookvoting language.
Speaker 6 (21:02):
Thank you so much for that question. As an internal
medicine specialist, we are dedicated to comprehensive and compassionate care
of our patients, and we are greatly concerned that the
actions of Secretary Kennedy's Vaccine Committee are continuing to undermine
the trust in vaccines, reverse decades of vaccine experience, endanger
(21:23):
the public health and our patients, as well as take
away the patients and the parents' choice on how they
can access healthcare and what they can do. This committee
is not acting in a transparent, rigorous scientific process.
Speaker 5 (21:37):
So is it true that they didn't even know what
they were voting on at times?
Speaker 6 (21:43):
The vote that they did yesterday was contradictory. They presented
data and had two different outcomes from the same set
of data, claiming that on one hand, no one should
get the MMRV combo vaccine, but at the same time
saying that those in lower economic status the vaccines for
children's for them and medicaid would not be would be
(22:06):
able to get that vaccine, raising the question, so, if
you are concerned enough that this causes harm, why are
you allowing the most vulnerable to have that vaccine but
not everyone else? Or, as I raised today, the second point,
perhaps the second vote got it right, that there is
no evidence or data to justify removing it from the
(22:26):
vaccine schedule.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
That was doctor Jason Goldman, who is president of the
American College of Physicians. Our guest in this half hour
is doctor Bob Bolinger, who is a professor of infectious
diseases at John Hopkins University. Doctor Bollinger, could you comment
(22:50):
on what doctor Goldman said?
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Well, I think I agree one hundred percent with what
Doc Goldman said. I think our confidence in the decision
making of this group being based on science is fading.
In fact, you know, you may be aware last week
I think it was up to fifty organizations have signed
on to Fifty professional organizations signed on to a statement
(23:16):
calling for RF case Junior's resignation because a lot of
this uncertainty and confusion and lack of transparency and politicization
of a which should be a very straightforward scientific decision
making process.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
And you would think so it used to be anyway, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
I think it's it's got to be really confusing obviously
now for patients, for communities, for parents to getting all
this confusion and mixed message, and it should be simple.
The one thing that was that was I'll say that
was worth paying attention to. There's only one thing that
I think that they said that makes sense, and that
(23:58):
was confer with your physician, right, okay. And I think
physicians like myself and others who want to base our
recommendations on facts and science and the best available science
are going to continue to do that. And as I
think you've alluded to, even some of the states are
pulling together in what they're calling there's a West Coast
(24:20):
Health Alliance is now Northeast or East Coast Health Alliance,
where the states are pulling together to ensure that recommendations
for people in their states are clearer, based on science,
based on the recommendations of the professional organizations and know
this stuff, and also make sure people have access to
the vaccines and that the insurance companies will cover them.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
No, it's very odd. I'm doing this show from Massachusetts today,
and every time I turn on TV, including watching the
Red Sox games, I've got Governor of Massachusetts More Healy
begging me to get a vaccination. Now, in some states
like Florida, I guess the governor or are doing everything
(25:01):
they can to discourage people from getting vaccinations. Uh. And
my question is this seems like chaos to me, and
I have a very bad feeling, especially since today is
the first day of fall, and fall, as I'm sure
you well know, it's infectious disease season. So are we
headed to real problems here?
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Well, certainly if people don't follow the recommendations of the
professional organizations, and if they follow the recommendations of pseudoscience,
then of course we're going to run into a problem.
And uh, you know, I think I got my flu
in my COVID booster last week. And I'd recommend people
to follow the device of their physicians and their and
(25:44):
the and the professional organizations like the American Academy of
Physicians the ACP. There's lots of organizations that are stepping
up in the in light of this chaos to try
to offer, you know, fact based guidance and recommendations. I
think that's what we're coming to, Brad, is we can't
rely on on what some states are saying, or or
(26:06):
even on what the CDC is saying reliably. So we've
got to turn to the experts. And that's what a
lot of these states are. Some of the states, like
the state you live in and the one I live
in is are moving towards But I do worry about
what's going to happen in Florida and other places where
there's mixed messages.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Now, let me ask you this, Uh, you know, it
seems to me that the problem here we have here.
You're right, everybody should consult their physicians for the physician's guidance.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
But they've got these including the president has the most
massive media forum in the nation, and it's Secretary of
Healthy Human Services has a forum too when it comes
to infectious diseases, and they're basically saying that, you know,
don't rush and get a vaccination. You know, I think
(27:00):
twice about it. I'm not even sure they're saying consult
your physician like you are. But I don't know. I
just have a bad feeling, and I hope I'm wrong,
but I just hope I have a bad thing. Let
me ask you this question, who are the people now?
(27:20):
A lot of the people who were on these boards
on infectious diseases that the CDC are going now because
it will push out or resigned. What were the people
that the new people on these diseases on on the
CDC panels? Do they have medical or scientific credentials or
(27:41):
are just people off the street with a, you know,
a strong point of view.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Well, I think they certainly have strong points of view.
Some of them have, you know, only some scientific background
based on what I don't. I don't know them individually,
and I haven't looked at it in detail. But I
think what you heard from the comment and the clip
earlier is that there's even confusion on that committee, right, Yeah,
And so there's probably some uh, some discrepancy and not
(28:09):
lack of consensus, so which I guess is always the case, right,
But I think the qualifications that you had to have
to be sitting on these committees in the past were
quite strict and quite high.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
And you know, the bar was high to get onto
the A, C, I, P and right rightfully. So you
want the best and smartest and most knowledgeable people, and
they're all gone now. So now it doesn't mean that
there aren't people in the committee now that that have
some information or some knowledge. But I don't think the
public has confidence. Certainly a lot of the clinicians don't
(28:41):
have confidence in what's coming out of these committees. It's
almost a little bit like, you know, we don't trust
the media, we don't trust the government, we don't trust
social media. Now we can't trust the CDC. Where do
we go for good information that we can rely on, Well,
back to your physician, ironically, Uh, back and the physicians
are going to rely on the professional organizations that include
(29:02):
the experts that used to sit on the ac IP,
the Infects, the Disease Society of America, the you know,
American Pediatric you know, Association of Pediatricians. So uh, that's
that's they're going to become the experts and and you
know that's the good news is that these organizations are
stepping up to try to fill that void. With with
reliable information. Uh.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Now it seems to me we're creating a two tiered
system here where people in the Northeast and you know
the problem with this geographic logic is flu in, COVID
no no geographic bounds. So even if you live in Oregon,
for example, and they are encouraging people like vaccines, uh,
(29:47):
their next door to states like Utah and Ohio which
are discoveraging discouraging vaccinations. So you know, I'm glad these
regional collaborate meta medical collaborators exist, but it's not going
to help very much since the COVID and flu and
(30:09):
everything else don't know any regional boundaries. We're going to
have to take a break here, doctor Bablinger. We'll be
back with more of Deadline DC with Brad Bannon and
more of doctor Bob Bollinger, Professor of Infectious Diseases at
Johns Hopkins University, right after this quick break. To give
(30:30):
our radio listeners a little rest, but we will continue
this interview with our viewers on online viewers, So don't
go anywhere. We'll be right back with Deadline DC. Welcome
(31:00):
back to Deadline d C with Brad Bannon. Uh, my
guest in this half hour is doctor Bob Bollinger, who
was a professor of infectious diseases at Johns Hopkins University.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Doctor, let me try this out on you. You know,
you hear of your newsreader, you hear of outbreaks of tuberculosis, uh,
and other disease across the country.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
It makes me wonder, what would you know? And COVID
is always lurking in the back of people's minds. After
such a horrible a couple of years, a couple of
years ago. Uh, our infectious diseases getting worse. I hear
I keep reading about tuberculosis out outbreaks and I thought
(31:57):
that was done with well.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
I mean, we've had the largest outbreak of tuberculosis in
probably decades. Recently in the last year around Kansas City,
we've had the largest outbreak of measles in the United
States in probably forty years. I mean, this measles was
eradicated in two thousand and I think we now have
close to fourteen hundred cases this year and we're not
(32:22):
even finished the year yet, which greatly outpaces anything we've
seen in the past. And it's all that particular outbreak
measles being driven by the lack of vaccination, and back
to what you said earlier, it's spilled over from Texas
into other communities to the vulnerable populations that are also unvaccinated.
(32:43):
So I think it's a breakdown of public health. It's
a breakdown of confidence that people have in science and
vaccination as well as basic public health public health principles,
and also a decrease in investment in public health to
go out in the communities and educate people to go
out and look for tuberculos and screen people for it.
I mean, the health departments are being devastated with cuts.
(33:06):
People are getting out of public health. So I really
worry about our preparedness for the next pandemic, for the
next bioterrorism attack, you know, or the next outbreak. We're
moving in the wrong direction and increasing our global our
health security, if that's what you want to call it
as a country.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Now, there's currently a debate going on in Congress over
whether or not to restore the cuts in Medicare and
Medicaid and also to lower premiums under the government American
(33:47):
Care Act. And I understand rural hospitals have been devastated.
Could you talk about the impact of the recent budget
bill and the cuts and Medicaid aid to rural hospitals
and also increases insurance premiums.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Well, it's really that's not my area of expertise. As
you know, Bradham unaffects a disease guy. But I would
say that anything that decreases access to affordable healthcare is
bad for all of us as a society. It's going
to increase the rest of us. The cost for the
rest of us right because people are going to more
people are going to get sick and get sicker if
they don't have access to care earlier in the process
(34:32):
or to prevent disease. So it's going to be more
expensive for all of us and more challenging for all
of us. If we reduce access to care, we'll reduce
the access to affordable healthcare.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Our guest in this half hour is doctor Bob Bollinger,
who is a professor of infectious diseases at Johns Hopkins University.
And I want to welcome back our radio listeners who
had a quick break but now or back. Let me
ask you this question, what is the danger? Are there
(35:07):
any signs out there, either here in the United States
or abroad that there's another pandemic lurking in the shadows.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Oh, it's just a question of not not if, it's
a question of when, Brad and we've we've been those
of us in this business have been talking about this
even before COVID. Right, we've got such I mean, most
of these diseases are what do we call zoonotic. They
they break out because humans and other animals are are
getting together and sharing viruses and bacteria with each other,
(35:39):
and when that happens, they can jump, you know, from
one animal to the other, in this case, to us.
And there are examples like monkey pocks and COVID and ebola,
and many examples of diseases like that bird flu for
examples another one. So I'm very concerned that that's going
to happen. The question is are we prepared for it?
(36:00):
And I don't think we're I think we're less prepared
for it now. And we have a lack of leadership
uh and and and UH in the in the public
health departments. UH and certainly in the federal government. UH
and a lot of people who are dedicated to helping
us as a society, you know, deal with these issues,
are getting discouraged from going into this into public health.
(36:21):
There they're leaving the uh the help public health departments
because there's lack of funding or because they're getting uh,
you know, bombarded with with uh you know, uh criticism
for being involved in public health. So it's a it's
actually it puts us in a much more vulnerable position.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Well, let me ask you this question, then, what should
we be doing to prevent what you consider an edible
outbreak of another infectious diseases? Besides getting vaccinations, what should
did the government be doing now?
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Well, in addition to investing in respepons tools like vaccine,
development like diagnostics so that you can quickly diagnose a
problem when it hits, we also need to be let
me use an analogy of smoke alarms. We need smoke
alarms set up all over the world and all over
the country to detect the smoke before the fire breaks out.
(37:18):
By smoke, I mean the next COVID, the next anthrax attack,
the next you know, unusual organism, the next rare case
of highly resistant tuberculosis for example. We need to have
global systems because it's not enough for us just to
set up these smoke alarms in the United States. We
(37:39):
need to be partnering around the world because, as you said,
these these diseases spread quickly around the world. They're not
going to they're not going to just stay within one place.
So we need to develop the partnerships with these other countries.
And at a time where we need this, we're pulling back, right,
We're pulling back investments in global health. We're pulling back
investments in those partnerships, and we're really shutting down the
(38:00):
smoke alarms that we need to help us prepare and
know when these things are coming.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Well, now, you teach at John Hopkins University, and John
Hopkins is known as a research center, among other things.
Have it seems to me a problem that we've apparently
because I even remember reading somewhere about layoffs at John
(38:27):
Hopkins is the cuts and research funding. How how bad
has that been.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
It's been a challenge for all all universities, not just
Johns Hopkins to have cuts. I mean, I think, you know,
we certainly face significant cuts, but we're not the only university.
This is affect universities in red states, blue states all
over the country, so it's not unique challenge to Johns Hopkins.
And then and I think as a country, we're facing
(38:56):
challenges because of those cuts. And you know, as I said,
it's going to make us less prepared help us. You know,
it's going to prevent us from progressing even further in
in uh, in our scientific advances that are going to
protect the health of the of the you know, Americans
as well as others around the world. And that's a
real problem. I mean, we need more investment, not less investment.
(39:19):
We need smart we don't need we don't We want
to make sure we invest strategically and smart, but we
need to increase our investment in science.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
You know, worries me hear about you know, cutbacks and
research on infectious diseases for example, Uh, you know, looking
for cures for the next medical disaster. Have you know,
are we severely limiting our ability uh to find new
(39:46):
cures for diseases and cope with old ones?
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Well? Absolutely. We used to be the world's leader in
developing those solutions, right, and we're uh just divest reducing
our investment in that leadership. That's scientific leadership. Other countries
are going to pick up the slack. China and other
places are going to we may very well be buying
(40:11):
our buying the solutions to these problems from China someday
or other countries because we're not investing in the same
way we did here in the United States.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Hey, doctor Bollinger, thank you very much for joining us
again today on Deadline DC with Brad Bannon. I want
to thank our guests today, doctor Bollinger and Kate Aclee
in the first segment who has Kate's a senior reporter
from Bloomberg Government. I also want to tell you that
(40:44):
next week we have a show scheduled with two great guests.
Our first guest who will be Tim Carr from Press
Freedom who is going to talk about the controversies over
freedom of speech and I mean Kim uh and uh
Charlie Kirk. We also have Anna vl Ds who is
(41:09):
the CEO of the Latino doing a uh collaborative.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
UH.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
So we're gonna we're have a great show for you.
Uh miss next week show UH with the very best
and aggressive progressive online must see TV at your own peril.
Looking forward to talking to you guests again next week,
and take care of yourselves until we see you again.
Speaker 6 (41:39):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
This is Brad Bannon signing off on Deadline DC with
Brad Bannon,
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